Leigh Griffiths Twitter/Club Statement

[Saorsa]

Where do you draw the line at what an apology makes up for?

Sparky's let us down big time. Massive negative publicity for the club.Better watch your halo never slips :angelic:

[Iggy Pope]

Yep. The words were offensive and the intent when those words were posted were to cause hurt, offense or one-upmanship in a heated exchange of tweets. They were racist. Not in a subtle way, not in an inconsequential way, but in a blatant, in-your-face way.

The more I think about it the less I'd be bothered if we emptied Sparky over this one. All the hard work of supporting Show Racism The Red Card undone by one players actions.

The idea of "Hibs Class" is something worth sticking to and for me Sparky has a hell of a lot to do to ever be considered "Hibs class" now.

You've really let the club down, Sparky.

Largely inconsequential though, given the apology and the subsequent acceptance of same.

Is there evidence of your own 'hard work' available to back this one up? Might avoid accusations of sanctimoniousness one-upmanship y'see?

[stoneyburn hibs]

Where do you draw the line at what an apology makes up for?

Sparky's let us down big time. Massive negative publicity for the club.

And how far do you want an apology to go ? , seems to me like you want it to go on and on. Massive negative publicity for the club ?, get a grip.

[hibsbollah]

Your first paragraph is debatable but the rest of the post?

Hearts class.

Odd you mention Hearts. I bet they're loving this thread.

[hibsbollah]

Yet we have people posting on here that have shown exactly the examples I have alluded to.

Not really. You're giving yourself credit your tired cliches don't deserve.

[Jonnyboy]

And how far do you want an apology to go ? , seems to me like you want it to go on and on. Massive negative publicity for the club ?, get a grip.

40 lashes from the Tache is the only way forward

[The Voice Of Reason]

Where do you draw the line at what an apology makes up for?

Sparky's let us down big time. Massive negative publicity for the club.

Oh FFS man.

The laddie made a big mistake, apologised and the apology was accepted. He never raped or murdered anyone or abused a child. I am sure he will have learned from this.

People like you are happy to take the moral high ground and your posts are an attempt to prove to us all how good a person you are - Sad. You will no doubt never have made any mistakes in life as you are perfect.

Seen as you are so enraged i really do hope you stop supporting Hibs as a result of this. :bye:

[Scouse Hibee]

Not really. You're giving yourself credit your tired cliches don't deserve.


And your delusions of grandeur are laughable.

[Hiber-nation]

Oh FFS man.

The laddie made a big mistake, apologised and the apology was accepted. He never raped or murdered anyone or abused a child. I am sure he will have learned from this.

People like you are happy to take the moral high ground and your posts are an attempt to prove to us all how good a person you are - Sad. You will no doubt never have made any mistakes in life as you are perfect.

Seen as you are so enraged i really do hope you stop supporting Hibs as a result of this. :bye:

Jeezo that is pitiful. The Voice of Reason? Time for a name change I think!!!

[hibsbollah]

And your illusions of grandeur are laughable.

Its 'delusions' of grandeur.

:aok:

[The Voice Of Reason]

40 lashes from the Tache is the only way forward

:top marks :faf:

[Scouse Hibee]

Its 'delusions' of grandeur.

:aok:


Thank you, so you do know what I'm on about then or is it hard to see from so high!

[The Voice Of Reason]

Jeezo that is pitiful. The Voice of Reason? Time for a name change I think!!!

Pitiful - don't think so.

You missed my point I think. Northernhibbe is acting as if Leigh did one of those horrendous things.

[superfurryhibby]

Fear of being labelled a racist if they haven't kept up to date of the ever changing politically correct thing to say which is a total joke, intent is the word IMO. Far too many people wrongly labelled by do gooders.

Tabloid nonsense, .sheer bollox

[NOLA]

A black person is a black person and can be called as such, the ridiculous thing is that people are not even sure how they are "allowed" to describe people anymore...................crazy just crazy.


was it hansen that got in a bit of bother for referring to a player as "coloured"? i genuinely dont believe people know whats right and not anymore, very confusing.

[JimBHibees]

I didnt say it was the same, I said it was an assumption based on appearance. That was the point I was trying to make. But if you want to be technical, as the comment was made regarding the country, rather than the race, it's xenophobia, not racism

As I said, I think he was spectacularly stupid to make the comment in the first place, but is it worse than berating people for being gay, being ginger, wearing glasses, etc? And if it is then please explain how it is. They are all assumptions based on an appearance too

Completely racist term not based on appearance based on the other guys racial origin.

[Mister P]

racist or political?

racism is illegal, dunno about being politically minded? :dunno:

[marinello59]

Fear of being labelled a racist if they haven't kept up to date of the ever changing politically correct thing to say which is a total joke, intent is the word IMO. Far too many people wrongly labelled by do gooders.

And far too many racists using semantics to wriggle out of the consequences when challenged.
Griffiths made an indefensible remark but to his credit he quickly realised that and has apologised. The target of his remark has accepted the apology, that should be that. However it's a crying shame that we have Hibs fans on here using his self admitted wrong doing to spout the same old tired cr@p. What's the opposite of politically correct by the way? (Politically Correct, one of the most over used sneering attempts to avoid proper debate ever coined.) By the way, calling racism what it is is not the work of do gooders, it's what the overwhelming decent majority in society do. And thank goodness for that.

[Pete]

Odd you mention Hearts. I bet they're loving this thread.

It will take a lot more extreme contributions on this thread b efore they can even start to think about taking the moral high ground on such a subject.

I wouldn't get too depressed reading this. Remember, there is a circling of the wagons that happens when one of your own is in trouble and I don't think anyone thinks racism isn't an important issue.

[Scouse Hibee]

Tabloid nonsense, .sheer bollox


I'll take your word for it as to tabloids as I never read them! I have however experienced what I stated so I guess I have experienced sheer bollox then hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Northernhibee]

And how far do you want an apology to go ? , seems to me like you want it to go on and on. Massive negative publicity for the club ?, get a grip.

You think a racist tweet by a player as the top read news story is anything but highly bad publicity for the club?

My stance on it is that apology or not, his actions have created negative publicity for the club. Untill he has worked to reverse any damage done to the clubs reputation I'd not hold any animosity towards the club if he were not to represent the club untill this has been done. Don't particularly care who disagrees, the standards of Hibernian Football Club are more important than any one individual.

[jdships]

Hardly.

He made a comment that he immediately regretted and retracted and apologised to the person concerned as well. An apology which has been accepted, by the way.

What more do you want?

It's comments like these that I was referring to in my first post on this thread, which really get my goat.

If two men have an argument and one says something a bit out of order towards the other and he immediately apologises for it and the two make up and move on from it, what business does anyone else have in getting involved and getting all offended by something that has nothing to do with them?

Hibs and/or Wolves will have a word with him and probably fine him a couple of weeks' wages as per their disciplinary process written in to a player's contract. That's the only third party who should be getting involved in this.

I could think of a hundred things that he could have done to disgrace himself and the club that would have been worse than this.

He was in the wrong, he immediately realised that and made amends. He will be punished financially by the club and has been embarrassed in public.

I would say that is more than enough to be honest.



Great post - says it all for me :top marks

After my 'football career' ended I worked at my trade which took me ALL over the world and if I had a fiver for every time i was called
Haggis Basher
Sheep ****ger
Scots Git
and was reminded I was taking a job a local should have had
Etc Etc
I would be a rich man
In many country's we were stopped and searched for no reason and subjected to derogatory remarks - often it was obvious provocation to get a reaction
In Casablanca in May 1964 I said good morning to the Shipyard Manager's wife as she arrived in the office. I was made to apologise to her husband for speaking to his wife when he wasn't present !!!!!!!!!!!
You just got on with it and learned to keep your mouth shut.
This business of 'racism' should apply accross the board surely
Things have moved on and it is now 2013 and I realise what was swept under the carpet forty years ago isn't now ' politically correct'
I am not defending LG as he made a mistake in reacting but it isn't the crime of the century

Time to draw a line in the sand over this and move on :rolleyes:

On a point of interest I use neither Face Book or Twitter - can't really see the point :greengrin:wink:

[The Voice Of Reason]

was it hansen that got in a bit of bother for referring to a player as "coloured"? i genuinely dont believe people know whats right and not anymore, very confusing.

Agreed.

Greig Norman is called the Great White Shark. Anyone who calls him that is a disgusting racist and should be hung, drawn and quartered in my opinion.

:doh:

[VickMackie]

was it hansen that got in a bit of bother for referring to a player as "coloured"? i genuinely dont believe people know whats right and not anymore, very confusing.

Yep. I actually thought that coloured was the PC term for black people. How wrong was I. I could have been branded racist if I called someone coloured!

[Scouse Hibee]

And far too many racists using semantics to wriggle out of the consequences when challenged.
Griffiths made an indefensible remark but to his credit he quickly realised that and has apologised. The target of his remark has accepted the apology, that should be that. However it's a crying shame that we have Hibs fans on here using his self admitted wrong doing to spout the same old tired cr@p. What's the opposite of politically correct by the way? (Politically Correct, one of the most over used sneering attempts to avoid proper debate ever coined.) By the way, calling racism what it is is not the work of do gooders, it's what the overwhelming decent majority in society do. And thank goodness for that.

Quite right, calling racism when it's not racism is indeed the work of do gooders though!

[Scouse Hibee]

Yep. I actually thought that coloured was the PC term for black people. How wrong was I. I could have been branded racist if I called someone coloured!

Completely my point that some folk on here find hard to understand.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I see what you mean but what about the kids that have players names on their replica shirts and posters of them on their wall. Young girls who love Cheryl Cole and want to act and be like her, these are role models and the kids look up to them.

I wouldnae mind looking up to Cheryl Cole now and again!

[Craig_in_Prague]

I wouldnae mind looking up to Cheryl Cole now again!

looking or waking? :-))

[Planet Hibs]

Backing Griffiths 100% simple as that. Not condoning the remark but young lad who will learn from it, in the scale of things he could have said or done a million worse things. Close the social account and move on scoring goals for hibs

[EdinMike]

Loving the Hearts fans creeping in here, and telling me about this today trying to take the "Moral High Ground"...

Remember the Sex offenders you employed. Argument over !

.."Oh but, but 5-1 !!" meh...

[Prof. Shaggy]

Yep. The words were offensive and the intent when those words were posted were to cause hurt, offense or one-upmanship in a heated exchange of tweets. They were racist. Not in a subtle way, not in an inconsequential way, but in a blatant, in-your-face way.

The more I think about it the less I'd be bothered if we emptied Sparky over this one. All the hard work of supporting Show Racism The Red Card undone by one players actions.

The idea of "Hibs Class" is something worth sticking to and for me Sparky has a hell of a lot to do to ever be considered "Hibs class" now.

You've really let the club down, Sparky.

I have a lot of sympathy with this view.
I hope that Sparky's comment was a mistake and that the fact he apologised so quickly is evidence that he realised that himself.

The evil of racism is not in that it offends anyone. It is because it is an assertion of superiority and power.
The Ryan Stevenson-it's-a-man's-game-type excuse should be left to those for whom HE is a role model.

[SkintHibby]

I don't think Scotland should be filled with Polish people.

I like Polish people but I'm still angry the UK government opened the floodgates to immigration.

I'd like them all to go home but I defy anyone to dare call me a racist!

[Jonnyboy]

I have a lot of sympathy with this view.
I hope that Sparky's comment was a mistake and that the fact he apologised so quickly is evidence that he realised that himself.

The evil of racism is not in that it offends anyone. It is because it is an assertion of superiority and power.
The Ryan Stevenson-it's-a-man's-game-type excuse should be left to those for whom HE is a role model.

Two sentences kinda contradict each other PS. You're agreeing with the view but while you'd be happy that LG apologised right away for the mistake he made, that apology was clearly not enough for Northernhibee who wouldn't be too fussed if Hibs dumped Griffiths because of what he did.

[Scouse Hibee]

I believe that some ice cream wafer combinations are not Black though, a term I had never heard until moving here I imagine the ice cream man was deeply offended.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Not going there, its too depressing :wink:

Did somebody mention Tranent again?

[The Voice Of Reason]

I don't think Scotland should be filled with Polish people.

I like Polish people but I'm still angry the UK government opened the floodgates to immigration.

I'd like them all to go home but I defy anyone to dare call me a racist!

Racist !

:wink:

[stoneyburn hibs]

You think a racist tweet by a player as the top read news story is anything but highly bad publicity for the club?

My stance on it is that apology or not, his actions have created negative publicity for the club. Untill he has worked to reverse any damage done to the clubs reputation I'd not hold any animosity towards the club if he were not to represent the club untill this has been done. Don't particularly care who disagrees, the standards of Hibernian Football Club are more important than any one individual.

So if Sparky plays for Hibs next game and the club says nowt whats your stance ?

[The Voice Of Reason]

So if Sparky plays for Hibs next game and the club says nowt whats your stance ?

Good question - wonder what northernhibby's reply will be !!!

[marinello59]

I don't think Scotland should be filled with Polish people.

I like Polish people but I'm still angry the UK government opened the floodgates to immigration.

I'd like them all to go home but I defy anyone to dare call me a racist!


Thank goodness the Poles and other incomers are here. There are areas of Aberdeen that would consist of boarded up abandoned housing and derelict shops if they weren't here. Now we have dying communities looking like they can thrive again. Scotland is hardly filled with anybody. After decades of declining population we are finally seeing a much needed but very small increase in population. I ain't calling you a racist but I am calling your post inflammatory tripe.

[SmashinGlass]

I don't think Scotland should be filled with Polish people.

I like Polish people but I'm still angry the UK government opened the floodgates to immigration.

I'd like them all to go home but I defy anyone to dare call me a racist!

Racist, no but culturally xenophobic, yes.

[stokesmessiah]

Thank goodness the Poles and other incomers are here. There are areas of Aberdeen that would consist of boarded up abandoned housing and derelict shops if they weren't here. Now we have dying communities looking like they can thrive again. Scotland is hardly filled with anybody. After decades of declining population we are finally seeing a much needed but very small increase in population. I ain't calling you a racist but I am calling your post inflammatory tripe.

As a resident of Aberdeen myself i am quite happy to say that the above is complete nonsense !!!

[Scouse Hibee]

As a resident of Aberdeen myself i am quite happy to say that the above is complete nonsense !!!


:faf:
Brilliant.

[english_hibee]

Completely racist term not based on appearance based on the other guys racial origin.

Pardon? What is they "guys racial origin"?

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Did deek get 18 pages for the rudi skacel song?

[marinello59]

As a resident of Aberdeen myself i am quite happy to say that the above is complete nonsense !!!

Go to Torry and see what is happening on Victoria Road. Go to Tillydrone. Check out who is living in the unlettable properties in Powis and Northfield. We need the immigrants in this City to do the jobs (many in our traditional industries) that many will no longer do. It's not nonsense....unless you don't want to see the benefits these people bring.

[Prof. Shaggy]

Two sentences kinda contradict each other PS. You're agreeing with the view but while you'd be happy that LG apologised right away for the mistake he made, that apology was clearly not enough for Northernhibee who wouldn't be too fussed if Hibs dumped Griffiths because of what he did.

Not a contradiction. I sympathise with the poster, but am very encouraged by Sparky's apology.
I think I'd be more fussed than Northernhibee, but respect his view.

[Jonnyboy]

Not a contradiction. I sympathise with the poster, but am very encouraged by Sparky's apology.
I think I'd be more fussed than Northernhibee, but respect his view.

Fair do's.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Did deek get 18 pages for the rudi skacel song?

Dunno , will you gob on Sparky if its not ?

[stokesmessiah]

Go to Torry and see what is happening on Victoria Road. Go to Tillydrone. Check out who is living in the unlettable properties in Powis and Northfield. We need the immigrants in this City to do the jobs (many in our traditional industries) that many will no longer do. It's not nonsense....unless you don't want to see the benefits these people bring.

As someone who works in the recruitment industry i am not going to deny that they bring some valuable skills in to the local market. As a resident of Tillydrone your comment about needing them to fill what would be derelict housing is nonsense. There is a huge shortage of housing in Aberdeen which is strained even further by immigrants to the area. Something that the Council are only too happy to admit themselves when you speak to them.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

looking or waking? :-))

Had a double take there, your post didn't say what I thought it said when I read it initially!

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Dunno , will you gob on Sparky if its not ?

Watch yourself or ill gob on you too..........ah can hawk for hours me

[Pete]

I don't think Scotland should be filled with Polish people.

I like Polish people but I'm still angry the UK government opened the floodgates to immigration.

I'd like them all to go home but I defy anyone to dare call me a racist!

This is getting bizarre!

What have polish people got to do with this??

[marinello59]

As someone who works in the recruitment industry i am not going to deny that they bring some valuable skills in to the local market. As a resident of Tillydrone your comment about needing them to fill what would be derelict housing is nonsense. There is a huge shortage of housing in Aberdeen which is strained even further by immigrants to the area. Something that the Council are only too happy to admit themselves when you speak to them.

Garbage. How long have you lived in Aberdeen? Ten years ago there were blocks in Hayton Road and adjoining streets which were empty and boarded up for ages as there was up in Logie and parts of Torry. There was talk of demolishing large swathes of them............as they actually did on Hayton Road. Funny that now these properties are occupied by immigrants they are defined by some as part of the problem. THAT is nonsense.

[SquashedFrogg]

Where do you draw the line at what an apology makes up for?

Sparky's let us down big time. Massive negative publicity for the club.

Funnily enough I heard a few thousand fans sing the refugee song to Skacel a short while back at ER yet never saw you post anything about it. Strange that.

Selective criticism :aok:

[marinello59]

Funnily enough I heard a few thousand fans sing the refugee song to Skacel a short while back at ER yet never saw you post anything about it. Strange that.

Selective criticism :aok:

There was a decent debate on here about that with plenty condemning it.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Funnily enough I heard a few thousand fans sing the refugee song to Skacel a short while back at ER yet never saw you post anything about it. Strange that.

Selective criticism :aok:

To be fair, i don't think he goes to Easter Road (so he wouldn't have heard these songs !)

:greengrin

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

This thread is turning into a thread of Transfer Deadline Day proportions. Whilst I can see both sides of the arguement, its thoroughly amusing the amount of eggshells being paced up and down upon in an effort for one side not to upset the other.

[The Voice Of Reason]

[QUOTE=marinello59;3470877]There was a decent debate on here about that with plenty condemning it

You miss his point - selective criticism. :aok:

[stoneyburn hibs]

Watch yourself or ill gob on you too..........ah can hawk for hours me

19 pages , i will get a towel.

[HibeeN]

I don't understand people who say the UK has opened the floodgates to Polish immigration. As a members of the EU, it's not like we can stop people from other EU countries from coming here. The laws allow for free travel and work and I've benefitted from it in my education, getting the opportunity to live and study in another country. And there are others on this board who live and work abroad in other EU countries. It's a benefit of being in the EU as far as I'm concerned, not a drawback. And the "lazy workers/benefit stealers" argument doesn't really hold up, as there are plenty of British people who are just that.

[Prof. Shaggy]

To be fair, i don't think he goes to Easter Road (so he wouldn't have heard these songs !)

:greengrin

Poor!

[stokesmessiah]

Garbage. How long have you lived in Aberdeen? Ten years ago there were blocks in Hayton Road and adjoining streets which were empty and boarded up for ages as there was up in Logie and parts of Torry. There was talk of demolishing large swathes of them............as they actually did on Hayton Road. Funny that now these properties are occupied by immigrants they are defined by some as part of the problem. THAT is nonsense.

:aok: Ok. We will agree to differ.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Poor!

:wink: :faf:

[marinello59]

There was a decent debate on here about that with plenty condemning it

You miss his point - selective criticism. :aok:

:doh:

[--------]

I don't think Scotland should be filled with Polish people.

I like Polish people but I'm still angry the UK government opened the floodgates to immigration.

I'd like them all to go home but I defy anyone to dare call me a racist!



Since the UK were instrumental in handing over Their country to Stalin in 1945, you might say we owe them a favour or two?

I've known a lot of Polish ex-servicemen, and I went to school with a good number of their children, and I've come to have the highest respect for them.

And I know a few Polish tradesmen who'll do a far better job for you than their natiuve-born counterparts. I can't see Polish workers as a liability or a handicap.

You may not be a racist, but you're certainly a xenophobe.

[Iggy Pope]

I don't think Scotland should be filled with Polish people.

I like Polish people but I'm still angry the UK government opened the floodgates to immigration.

I'd like them all to go home but I defy anyone to dare call me a racist!


Racist !

:wink:


Thank goodness the Poles and other incomers are here. There are areas of Aberdeen that would consist of boarded up abandoned housing and derelict shops if they weren't here. Now we have dying communities looking like they can thrive again. Scotland is hardly filled with anybody. After decades of declining population we are finally seeing a much needed but very small increase in population. I ain't calling you a racist but I am calling your post inflammatory tripe.


As a resident of Aberdeen myself i am quite happy to say that the above is complete nonsense !!!


Go to Torry and see what is happening on Victoria Road. Go to Tillydrone. Check out who is living in the unlettable properties in Powis and Northfield. We need the immigrants in this City to do the jobs (many in our traditional industries) that many will no longer do. It's not nonsense....unless you don't want to see the benefits these people bring.


As someone who works in the recruitment industry i am not going to deny that they bring some valuable skills in to the local market. As a resident of Tillydrone your comment about needing them to fill what would be derelict housing is nonsense. There is a huge shortage of housing in Aberdeen which is strained even further by immigrants to the area. Something that the Council are only too happy to admit themselves when you speak to them.


This is getting bizarre!

What have polish people got to do with this??


Garbage. How long have you lived in Aberdeen? Ten years ago there were blocks in Hayton Road and adjoining streets which were empty and boarded up for ages as there was up in Logie and parts of Torry. There was talk of demolishing large swathes of them............as they actually did on Hayton Road. Funny that now these properties are occupied by immigrants they are defined by some as part of the problem. THAT is nonsense.


:aok: Ok. We will agree to differ.



HIBBYRADGE! Where are you? This is dying on it's erse! We need you!
:not worth

[Speedy]

Yes I have mate, I mentioned it earlier in this thread, "Winter Wondeland" instead of nativity play example.

My wife definatly had a allergic reaction to semen:wink: though not through eating at Macd's.

Fair enough but I'm not convinced that's the same.

It sounds like the school tried to do something more inclusive to various religious beliefs. May or may not be the right thing to do but I don't think it's the same as banning the use of the word black.

[leithsansiro]

Fundamentally, Leigh did a stupid thing. He rose to the bait and was out of order. People are missing the point I think by defending him or suggesting that "it's all just political correctness gone mad". No, what he wrote was wrong. No defence.

However, the fact that the bloke that he abused was himself being hugely often offensive is being overlooked and underplayed, particularly by the media. Nowhere on the official report on the BBC, for example, can you find any information highlighting that Leigh was reacting in response to his partner and children being abused or him being referred to in a public forum as a ******. The boy, who still is showing no remorse and is indeed revelling in his new notoriety, should be getting hung out to dry for thinking it's appropriate to verbally abuse a complete stranger, public figure or not. If I walked up to someone in the street and said similar things to them, I'd quite rightly expect a good beating.

The bastion of public knowledge and decency (the Daily Mail - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2260762/Wolves-criticise-Leigh-Griffiths-racist-tweet.html) have completely missed the reason why Griffiths responded. The to and fro between Zak and his pals prior to him posting (let me paraphrase - "LG can't spell / I'm a bit bored / I'll slag him off") is a fabulous example of what happens when thick people get broadband access.

I'm not condoning racism (and Leigh has clearly shown he's a bit of an idiot) but there's a deeper issue here about the "protection" that some keyboard hardmen seem to think that they have.

[Deano_70]

What he said was wrong which he rightly admitted within minutes. What is the point in 19 pages of utter drivel! The club will deal with it accordingly and hopefully then it can disappear. Let's focus on what he does best scoring goals.

[Deano_70]

Fundamentally, Leigh did a stupid thing. He rose to the bait and was out of order. People are missing the point I think by defending him or suggesting that "it's all just political correctness gone mad". No, what he wrote was wrong. No defence.

However, the fact that the bloke that he abused was himself being hugely often offensive is being overlooked and underplayed, particularly by the media. Nowhere on the official report on the BBC, for example, can you find any information highlighting that Leigh was reacting in response to his partner and children being abused or him being referred to in a public forum as a ******. The boy, who still is showing no remorse and is indeed revelling in his new notoriety, should be getting hung out to dry for thinking it's appropriate to verbally abuse a complete stranger, public figure or not. If I walked up to someone in the street and said similar things to them, I'd quite rightly expect a good beating.

The bastion of public knowledge and decency (the Daily Mail - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2260762/Wolves-criticise-Leigh-Griffiths-racist-tweet.html) have completely missed the reason why Griffiths responded. The to and fro between Zak and his pals prior to him posting (let me paraphrase - "LG can't spell / I'm a bit bored / I'll slag him off") is a fabulous example of what happens when thick people get broadband access.

I'm not condoning racism (and Leigh has clearly shown he's a bit of an idiot) but there's a deeper issue here about the "protection" that some keyboard hardmen seem to think that they have.


:top markswell said that man

[Thecat23]

The one person who seems to have escaped all this is the lad who first sent all the abusive tweets to Leigh. That's right remember him anyone? While we all sit here and argue with each other he's set out and got the exact reaction he wanted from a footballer. He hoped an prob knew Leigh could snap and yes stupidly he has. But if anyone asked me to pick sides only one man I'll back and it's not the Internet troll that's for sure. He can go **** himself!

[BarneyK]

The one person who seems to have escaped all this is the lad who first sent all the abusive tweets to Leigh. That's right remember him anyone? While we all set here and argue with each other he's set out and got the exact reaction he wanted from a footballer. He hoped an prob knew Leigh could snap and yes stupidly he has. But if anyone asked me to pick sides only one man I'll back and it's not the Internet troll that's for sure. He can go **** himself!

Yep. Leigh was wrong but he'll get my backing 100% :thumbsup:

[The Voice Of Reason]

So if Sparky plays for Hibs next game and the club says nowt whats your stance ?

I think northernhibbe has chosen not to answer your very good question !

Funny that........:rolleyes:

[leithsansiro]

Hmmmm, Zak Iqbal? Not that I would condone such behaviour, but he's incredibly easy to find such a distinctive name on Facebook....

:worried:

[stoneyburn hibs]

I think northernhibbe has chosen not to answer your very good question !

Funny that........:rolleyes:

Am sure he will be back :aok:

[Hibs90]

So many people on here too quick to judge Leigh. Because you've never done anything wrong in your life! Pathetic.

Leigh was provoked, he reacted, he apologised, the apology got accepted, Zak himself said it was banter, the clubs disciplined. Get over it.

Media need a story I suppose.

[silverhibee]

Alot of kids very much copy the antics of players though such as diving, celebrations etc

And a lot of them don't, and play the game in the correct manner like most players do.

[BarneyK]

So many people on here too quick to judge Leigh. Because you've never done anything wrong in your life! Pathetic.

Leigh was provoked, he reacted, he apologised, the apology got accepted, Zak himself said it was banter, the clubs disciplined. Get over it.

Media need a story I suppose.

Shocking what passes for "banter" these days - particularly on Twitter, but yeah, agree with everything else. :aok:

[TheReg!]

Fair enough but I'm not convinced that's the same.

It sounds like the school tried to do something more inclusive to various religious beliefs. May or may not be the right thing to do but I don't think it's the same as banning the use of the word black.

Of course it's the same, why should a school change its Christmas school play for a minority group who are not bothered about it? The school in question has done lots of things for other religious beliefs but it doesn't call them by a different name. The same can be said for changing blackboard to chalkboard etc its just pure nonsense. Look Immigration in Scotland is nothing like of what it is in England, I would like to hear from other .neters who live down south in places like Luton, Leeds, Rochdale etc on their views on the matter.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Hmmmm, Zak Iqbal? Not that I would condone such behaviour, but he's incredibly easy to find such a distinctive name on Facebook....

:worried:

:greengrin

[silverhibee]

SH, you'd be proud but I think my role model status at home has taken a wee dip after I've scoffed the laddies toblerone - hidden away in a drawer too......he's sneaky and had to be taught a lesson :greengrin.


Spooky TH.

My missus got a bag full of all kind of chocolates from a family member at Xmas, it had everything in it, you would have been in your glory, :greengrin anyway i happened to take a wee craven for chocolate and sneaked out the large size white chocolate toblerone and scoffed it. :tee hee:

She was not a happy woman when she went to get the toblerone the other night there. :faf: I was taught a lesson too. :cb:greengrin

:aok::greengrin

[silverhibee]

http://rootsofaction.com/blog/what-is-a-role-model-five-qualities-that-matter-for-role-models/

btw...I agree to what you are saying :agree:

:aok:

[Mikey]

This long ceased to be a footballing discussion and will be heading to the Holy Ground sometime soon! We'll leave a redirect.

[McIntosh]

I don't think Scotland should be filled with Polish people.

I like Polish people but I'm still angry the UK government opened the floodgates to immigration.

I'd like them all to go home but I defy anyone to dare call me a racist!


Replace Polish with Irish and you trump racism with real irony for a Hibs supporter

[silverhibee]

I don't think anyone on here is defending racism, or any form of derogatory remarks. Most people seem to think, myself included, that it has been blown out of all proportion. Had the gent been wearing glasses and Leigh had commented "foureyes", or been overweight and leigh had responded "chubs", or had been "strawberry blonde" and leigh had responded "ginge", would there have been such an outcry?

I'm not defending the lad, I fully believe that he should have either a) thought more about what he responded, or b) blocked the guy straight away and not paid it any heed. However, when you are constantly being hounded and abused/ridiculed on a public forum, especially when your children/family are brought into it, it is human nature to just snap and respond.

If the police are going to investigate this, are they therefore going to investigate every other person on twitter who has said something similar? If not, why not? If it's an offense for a pro footballer to say it, surely it's an offense for everyone?

As I said, certainly not defending him, it was a stupid thing to say, and not acceptable, especially given people take to twitter purely to wind him up and wait for the aftermath, he should have known better and not risen to the taunts, but this has been taken, by social networking and the media, way way too far

Am totally outraged that no one defends the "ginge" on here. :greengrin

[Dinkydoo]

It seems that "racism" takes on new definitions every year. I don't think you're even allowed to describe a dark skinned person as "black" anymore. It's "African American".

We can still be described as "white" though. That's alright. :confused:

Sorry for responding without reading the rest of the thread but what a load of **** this is.

A black person is black, and by law, this is how you should describe them by the colour of their skin.

[Dinkydoo]

31 pages later (browsing via tapatalk) and The Cat still hasn't realised he's a racist......jeez they're dragging this one out a bit aren't they.

[HibeeHendo]

Sorry to sound crass but this thread needs to get to ****. This subject has been blown totally out of proportion.

[Pete]

Hmmmm, Zak Iqbal? Not that I would condone such behaviour, but he's incredibly easy to find such a distinctive name on Facebook....

:worried:

Definitely not Hibs class if people decide to chase him up or hassle him.

He was initially at fault but this was just a bit of banter to him and even after the event he has stated so. He might have provoked it but he wasn't actually responsible for what Leigh said.

I don't think he could have predicted this outcome and media attention when he sent abusive tweets as a wind-up. Lets be honest, this Zaq Iqbal might have started a slagging match but he didn't ask to be racially abused.

A personal statement from Leigh which apologises for this tweet would go a long way.







edit: Hiya Shaun!

[NOLA]

After being kept updated with leighs twitter faux pas, it has emerged that liverpool are set to make a bid for sparky.

[(((Fergus)))]

Since the UK were instrumental in handing over Their country to Stalin in 1945, you might say we owe them a favour or two?

I've known a lot of Polish ex-servicemen, and I went to school with a good number of their children, and I've come to have the highest respect for them.

And I know a few Polish tradesmen who'll do a far better job for you than their natiuve-born counterparts. I can't see Polish workers as a liability or a handicap.

You may not be a racist, but you're certainly a xenophobe.

The Russians were already occupying Poland in 1945. It wasn't in our hands to hand over. The US may have been able to use its momentary nuclear advantage to drive the communists out of Eastern Europe (can't believe you would advocate something like that but it may have been for the best), but we certainly did not have the resources to take on the Red Army.

Besides, what favour are we giving them, assuming we even owe them one? If, as you say later, someone does a job for you and effectively charges half the going rate, then surely they are doing you a favour? Of course there are advantages to living in this country and being paid in our currency, otherwise they would not come and work with such motivation. Provided immigrants come here to work, then we are doing each other a favour. Which also means the more we pare back on welfare, the better immigration will be for the country.

[Thecat23]

31 pages later (browsing via tapatalk) and The Cat still hasn't realised he's a racist......jeez they're dragging this one out a bit aren't they.

Oh really? Pretty strong thing to accuse someone!! Explain why please?

[SouthamptonHibs]

Let's hope Wolves tell Leigh to "f-off and get back to his own country", that way he can sign for us. Leigh, Leigh super Leigh.

[GhostofBolivar]

The Russians were already occupying Poland in 1945. It wasn't in our hands to hand over. The US may have been able to use its momentary nuclear advantage to drive the communists out of Eastern Europe (can't believe you would advocate something like that but it may have been for the best), but we certainly did not have the resources to take on the Red Army.

Besides, what favour are we giving them, assuming we even owe them one? If, as you say later, someone does a job for you and effectively charges half the going rate, then surely they are doing you a favour? Of course there are advantages to living in this country and being paid in our currency, otherwise they would not come and work with such motivation. Provided immigrants come here to work, then we are doing each other a favour. Which also means the more we pare back on welfare, the better immigration will be for the country.

Way off topic here, but the decision to let the Soviets keep the half of Poland they took in 1939 after the war was made by the big 3 - with no reference to what the Poles might have wanted - at the Tehran conference of 1943, when the whole of the country was occupied by the Germans.

[Alfred E Newman]

Sorry to sound crass but this thread needs to get to ****. This subject has been blown totally out of proportion.
You are exactly right. Its situations like this that encourage racial intolerance.

[500miles]

Thick laddie get's trolled, and reacts exactly as the troll wanted him to. To be fair, I'm surprised Griffiths had the brains not to call him a Paki, which would have got him into the real brown stuff, and a word that is rife in the area he comes from.
"Go back to your own country" isn't a racist statement in itself, but it is associated with racism. Look at Alex Jones tell Pierce Morgan to do exactly that. The problem with Leigh is that Zak was from the Livvy area, in Scotland (although just outside civilisation), which exposed his ignorance. He made the assumption that Zak wasn't from Scotland because of his name and skin colour, which makes the issue racial. If he said "you're no really Scottish, you're black", when Zak replied about his origin, then we start talking about a solid case of racism and bigotry.

Leigh should block these folk on his twitter account. He's not savvy enough to be clever with them.

[jon paul jones]

Maybe wolves will not want him hahaha it all part of his plan

A very astute observation.......Hibs remonstrate the player behind closed doors and we (fingers crossed) keep a player we dont have the original contract for but want to keep. I'll take the hassle that comes with Leigh coz he's one of our own and delivers on the pitch.

How the situation has come about is something for everyone else to discuss (20 pages and counting)

GG

[Lucius Apuleius]

Sorry for responding without reading the rest of the thread but what a load of **** this is.

A black person is black, and by law, this is how you should describe them by the colour of their skin.

Which law is this? Could we have a link? What colour do we call middle eastern or asian persons by law. Genuinely interested here as I never knew there was an actual law.

[bawheid]

Which law is this? Could we have a link? What colour do we call middle eastern or asian persons by law. Genuinely interested here as I never knew there was an actual law.

:agree:

So much ignorance on both sides of the argument. It's been an entertaining read though.

When's the fitba' back?

[Jones28]

Which law is this? Could we have a link? What colour do we call middle eastern or asian persons by law. Genuinely interested here as I never knew there was an actual law.

Think it would be described as politically correct rather than an actual law? Not sure though

Where's the football?!

[clerriehibs]

Sorry for responding without reading the rest of the thread but what a load of **** this is.

A black person is black, and by law, this is how you should describe them by the colour of their skin.

By law?

[Betty Boop]

Great that Leigh Griffiths apologised , however some of the attempts on this thread, to make light of racism are laughable.

[jdships]

Great that Leigh Griffiths apologised , however some of the attempts on this thread, to make light of racism are laughable.


Can you please define racism as you see it ?
I agree totally that it is not on regardless who is involved but it is difficult even for the legal profession to define
I have a friend a WS and another an Advocate and in private they will tell you it is a MASSIVE MINEFIELD and must be administered correctly to ensure that it protects Black ,White or whatever Ethnic group.
Can't argue with that surely ?:rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

Can you please define racism as you see it ?
I agree totally that it is not on regardless who is involved but it is difficult even for the legal profession to define
I have a friend a WS and another an Advocate and in private they will tell you it is a MASSIVE MINEFIELD and must be administered correctly to ensure that it protects Black ,White or whatever Ethnic group.
Can't argue with that surely ?:rolleyes:

Its not a 'massive minefield' unless someone wants to pretend it is for their own polical reasons.

[jdships]

Its not a 'massive minefield' unless someone wants to pretend it is for their own polical reasons.

Agree with what you say but disagree with 'political' reasons alone
People from all walks of life/ all countries 'play the racism card' for their OWN PERSONAL REASONS .
I have witnessed it at first hand all over the world ,as I posted earlier, and just had to walk away
It comes from all faiths/groups and both genders .
The legal minefield is down to the interpretation of what is racism .
Is being called a 'Jock' / 'Weegie' or calling a female an ' Essex Girl' racist ?

Most people I have spoken with about LG/Terry/Suarez cases have said that probably if this had happened in the street, in a public park we would never have heard about the cases .

For me it requires a level playing field to ensure that the use of this language can be eradicated
Don't ask me how to do it - its the $64000 question :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

And a lot of them don't, and play the game in the correct manner like most players do.

True enough.

[Beefster]

Is being called a 'Jock' / 'Weegie' or calling a female an ' Essex Girl' racist ?

'Jock' is probably xenophobic. The others aren't racist.

I'm surprised at how many folk on here in the last day or so have asked if abusing someone based on their race is the same as abusing someone based on their town/county/weight/hair colour/ears etc etc.

[Hiber-nation]

'Jock' is probably xenophobic. The others aren't racist.

I'm surprised at how many folk on here in the last day or so have asked if abusing someone based on their race is the same as abusing someone based on their town/county/weight/hair colour/ears etc etc.

I'm not surprised, just disappointed.

[hibsbollah]

'Jock' is probably xenophobic. The others aren't racist.

I'm surprised at how many folk on here in the last day or so have asked if abusing someone based on their race is the same as abusing someone based on their town/county/weight/hair colour/ears etc etc.

The level of ignorance surprises me as well, from some posters who i would have thought better of.

[CropleyWasGod]

I have a question, and apologies if it's been asked before.

Hibs are taking disciplinary action. Given that they don't employ LG, what can they actually do?

[jdships]

'Jock' is probably xenophobic. The others aren't racist.

I'm surprised at how many folk on here in the last day or so have asked if abusing someone based on their race is the same as abusing someone based on their town/county/weight/hair colour/ears etc etc.

That is the very point I am making
As I posted I have been subject to abuse in countries all over the world because of my colour and the country I came from
To me it was unnaceptable be it racism or whatever you want to call it
Abuse on a personal basis is abuse in my book
Don't quite understand your point about people not knowing the difference re abuse
Most people see it as it is and walk away others react in whatever way
That's ' the nature of the human being '

I repeat
People from all walks of life/ all countries 'play the racism card' for their OWN PERSONAL REASONS .
I have witnessed it at first hand all over the world ,as I posted earlier, and just had to walk away
It comes from all faiths/groups and both genders .
The legal minefield is down to the interpretation of what is racism .

[jdships]

I have a question, and apologies if it's been asked before.

Hibs are taking disciplinary action. Given that they don't employ LG, what can they actually do?

As far as I understand from a legal friend
' The offence' occurred in Scotland with LG being a Registered Player at HFC therefore they are required to take any action deemed necessary under the rules of the SPL .'
That is how he explained it to me and can only believe what he says to be correct in the eyes of the football authorities
The fact that L&B Polis are involved is a completely different scenario

[Sir David Gray]

'Jock' is probably xenophobic. The others aren't racist.

I'm surprised at how many folk on here in the last day or so have asked if abusing someone based on their race is the same as abusing someone based on their town/county/weight/hair colour/ears etc etc.

Why would it be any less hurtful for someone to be targeted because they are fat or have big ears than it is for someone who has been targeted because they are from a different country?

You hear of quite a lot of cases about people, mainly youngsters, who have either committed, or attempted to commit, suicide because they have been the target of abuse because of their appearance. Most of it is done online as well.

It's all bullying.

[One Day Soon]

I think this lengthy discussion has really moved things on in a helpful way. To summarise:

1. Someone's wife is allergic to semen.
2. There's been a fair bit of unethical marital Toblerone scoffing - personally I think we should be focussing a bit more on that one.
3. Apparently there is an entire piece of legislation requiring us to call people by their colour. Odd, since the entire civil rights movement arose from a desire not to distinguish by virtue of skin colour.
4. Northern Hibee feels that apologies should come with time-defined statutes of limitation.
5. Some people feel there are too many of dem Poles/Kaffliks/English/(insert your favoured other minority here) in our country.
6. And after reading a bunch of the opinions expressed here the one who may be facing a racism investigation is Sparky? Its lucky we don't have stupidity laws yet.

I bet the thread on Brokebank after the Kevin Harper racial abuse incident was at least twice the length of this one discussing the ins and outs of the matter. Oh wait....

[jdships]

Why would it be any less hurtful for someone to be targeted because they are fat or have big ears than it is for someone who has been targeted because they are from a different country?

You hear of quite a lot of cases about people, mainly youngsters, who have either committed, or attempted to commit, suicide because they have been the target of abuse because of their appearance. Most of it is done online as well.

It's all bullying.

:thumbsup:
Abuse of a person for whatever reason is abuse is abuse regardless in what form :agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

As far as I understand from a legal friend
' The offence' occurred in Scotland with LG being a Registered Player at HFC therefore they are required to take any action deemed necessary under the rules of the SPL .'
That is how he explained it to me and can only believe what he says to be correct in the eyes of the football authorities
The fact that L&B Polis are involved is a completely different scenario

I understand that, but I am not sure what they CAN do. For example, can they fine him? If so, given that (as I understand it) the maximum is 2 weeks' wages, is that limited to Hibs' share of his wages, or the full amount that he gets from us and Wolves? Then again, we're not actually paying "wages", we're paying a fee to Wolves.

[LeighLoyal]

If the guy hadn't been on twitter attempting to be offensive to LG he wouldn't have got the comment. I don't consider the comment particularly racist, although it could be taken that way obviously. From my point of view there are too many immigrants in the UK as the 20% ethnic 2011 census figure showed, overall the sentiment is one I have sympathy with. My grandfather fought in two world wars for next to nothing. Anyway, the guy was being offensive to LG's appearance, so XXXX him.

[marinello59]

If the guy hadn't been on twitter attempting to be offensive to LG he wouldn't have got the comment. I don't consider the comment particularly racist, although it could be taken that way obviously. From my point of view there are too many immigrants in the UK as the 20% ethnic 2011 census figure showed, overall the sentiment is one I have sympathy with. My grandfather fought in two world wars for next to nothing. Anyway, the guy was being offensive to LG's appearance, so XXXX him.

Geezus. :rolleyes:
Griffiths made a dumb comment in the heat of the moment and quickly realised how wrong it was. It's so much sadder that some on here have used it as an excuse to parade their own prejudices. Depressing.

[Scouse Hibee]

If the guy hadn't been on twitter attempting to be offensive to LG he wouldn't have got the comment. I don't consider the comment particularly racist, although it could be taken that way obviously. From my point of view there are too many immigrants in the UK as the 20% ethnic 2011 census figure showed, overall the sentiment is one I have sympathy with. My grandfather fought in two world wars for next to nothing. Anyway, the guy was being offensive to LG's appearance, so XXXX him.


Does/did your grandad think that way too?

[jdships]

I understand that, but I am not sure what they CAN do. For example, can they fine him? If so, given that (as I understand it) the maximum is 2 weeks' wages, is that limited to Hibs' share of his wages, or the full amount that he gets from us and Wolves? Then again, we're not actually paying "wages", we're paying a fee to Wolves.

Absolutely !!
However given what happened with Suarez, Terry et al anything seems to be possible :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Does/did your grandad think that way too?

Shirley did if he fought in WW1? :hmmm:

[GhostofBolivar]

If the guy hadn't been on twitter attempting to be offensive to LG he wouldn't have got the comment. I don't consider the comment particularly racist, although it could be taken that way obviously. From my point of view there are too many immigrants in the UK as the 20% ethnic 2011 census figure showed, overall the sentiment is one I have sympathy with. My grandfather fought in two world wars for next to nothing. Anyway, the guy was being offensive to LG's appearance, so XXXX him.

So you're saying that we fought two world wars to stop immigration?

I despair. I really do.

[StevesFamau5]

you know what makes me laugh about this. i was born in Edimburgh. but adopted when I was two due to my borth mother being a cheap whore or whatever it was. I was adopted by two of the greatest people on this planet. both my mum and dad are English. I consider myself British. I have a mixed accent but its heavier on the english accents (cheshire and dorset). If i had a pound for everytime i have been told too eother a. **** off back down there. or b. english ****. I could buy a fleet of aston martins... the point im making is while LG may have been pushed into anger... the use of get back to your own country is just as racist as calling a black person the 'n' word. or trying to be clever and calling a mexican person lazy. obvious or not. racist remarks or rants belong with the narrow minded extremists like EDL or SDL.

just saying :)

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Hibrandenburg]

If the guy hadn't been on twitter attempting to be offensive to LG he wouldn't have got the comment. I don't consider the comment particularly racist, although it could be taken that way obviously. From my point of view there are too many immigrants in the UK as the 20% ethnic 2011 census figure showed, overall the sentiment is one I have sympathy with. My grandfather fought in two world wars for next to nothing. Anyway, the guy was being offensive to LG's appearance, so XXXX him.

Only if he fought on Adolf's side?

[degenerated]

If the guy hadn't been on twitter attempting to be offensive to LG he wouldn't have got the comment. I don't consider the comment particularly racist, although it could be taken that way obviously. From my point of view there are too many immigrants in the UK as the 20% ethnic 2011 census figure showed, overall the sentiment is one I have sympathy with. My grandfather fought in two world wars for next to nothing. Anyway, the guy was being offensive to LG's appearance, so XXXX him.

Thankfully your point of view is irrelevant to most people.

[Beefster]

Why would it be any less hurtful for someone to be targeted because they are fat or have big ears than it is for someone who has been targeted because they are from a different country?

You hear of quite a lot of cases about people, mainly youngsters, who have either committed, or attempted to commit, suicide because they have been the target of abuse because of their appearance. Most of it is done online as well.

It's all bullying.

Make no mistake, bullying is abhorrent but this argument is generally made by people looking to make racism seem less serious somehow. Racism isn't just about appearance. Folk haven't been hung from trees for having big ears. Folk haven't been ostracised by their families for dating someone with glasses. Folk haven't been forced into slavery because they were fat. Folk haven't been treated as second class citizens by their nation because they had acne. Etc etc etc.

[LeighLoyal]

Does/did your grandad think that way too?



Not sure, he died in 1986. But he served in both wars. RSM in the first when in the trenches and was a reservist between wars so was called up early despite being in his 40's and sent to France, managed to get back somehow despite being surrounded by the Germans defending St Valery. Was at El Alamein in 42 and Normandy in 44. Quite a small guy but tough as old boots. 51st Highland Division. He came from the North West Highlands, a Catholic but with no Irish links. I didn't know him that well, 13 when he past, but he'd be turning in his grave at the state of this country given what he and his comrades sacrificed. Another open door to millions of Bulgarians and Romanians this December coming, why should this country pay for all these? The housing, education, health and welfare of these people is not this countries responsibility. Tip of an iceberg but kids don't get it.

[hibsbollah]

'You didnt know him that well' yet you feel like you can say his wartime service 'was for nothing?' I dont know your grandad but i wouldnt be too pleased if my grandson talked about my service like that.

[Dinkydoo]

Oh really? Pretty strong thing to accuse someone!! Explain why please?

You've openly stated that you'd probably "flatten" a Romanian beggar asking for money before shouting "**** off back to your own country".

Polish and Romanian beggars are "crippling" the country.

"Normal Scots"

You stated that if the person who was giving Leigh abuse on Twitter was from a different country then they should "piss off back to their own country".

The evidence certainly points to racism.

[Scouse Hibee]

Not sure, he died in 1986. But he served in both wars. RSM in the first when in the trenches and was a reservist between wars so was called up early despite being in his 40's and sent to France, managed to get back somehow despite being surrounded by the Germans defending St Valery. Was at El Alamein in 42 and Normandy in 44. Quite a small guy but tough as old boots. 51st Highland Division. He came from the North West Highlands, a Catholic but with no Irish links. I didn't know him that well, 13 when he past, but he'd be turning in his grave at the state of this country given what he and his comrades sacrificed. Another open door to millions of Bulgarians and Romanians this December coming, why should this country pay for all these? The housing, education, health and welfare of these people is not this countries responsibility. Tip of an iceberg but kids don't get it.


So you don't really know what his thoughts were about the wars he fought or what he thought about the country when he passed away in 1986 yet you see fit to use him as a vehicle to portray your own thoughts and feelings is what it seems like to me.

[Dinkydoo]

Which law is this? Could we have a link? What colour do we call middle eastern or asian persons by law. Genuinely interested here as I never knew there was an actual law.

Got a little carried away there by saying "law".

Though the Equality Act 2010 covers racial discrimination, after having a search online, I've realised that it doesn't appear to mention describing someone by the colour of their skin.

The Equality Lead for my employer has always stated that if unavoidable then you should describe someone by what colour their skin is; although its pretty uncommon to hear anyone describing someone as "olive".

To answer your question, If i had to, I'd describe a brown person as brown, a black person as black, a white person as white, an Asian as Asian.

I don't buy the PC Gone Mad nonsense spouted by some people on this thread announcing that it is no longer acceptable to describe someone by the colour of their skin, whilst "us being white is alright though".

There isn't an explicit glossary of acceptable and non acceptable racial terms but I think that simply describing someone as black, white or green is, by the definition of racism, implicitly defined as not being racist, which of course is legal under UK law. So in a round about way, it actually is covered by legislation.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not sure, he died in 1986. But he served in both wars. RSM in the first when in the trenches and was a reservist between wars so was called up early despite being in his 40's and sent to France, managed to get back somehow despite being surrounded by the Germans defending St Valery. Was at El Alamein in 42 and Normandy in 44. Quite a small guy but tough as old boots. 51st Highland Division. He came from the North West Highlands, a Catholic but with no Irish links. I didn't know him that well, 13 when he past, but he'd be turning in his grave at the state of this country given what he and his comrades sacrificed. Another open door to millions of Bulgarians and Romanians this December coming, why should this country pay for all these? The housing, education, health and welfare of these people is not this countries responsibility. Tip of an iceberg but kids don't get it.

I would have thought that your Grandad was fighting fascism, the kind of one-nation, closed-borders, racially-pure society that you seem keen to protect.

[Dinkydoo]

By law?

See my post above.

[LeighLoyal]

I would have thought that your Grandad was fighting fascism, the kind of one-nation, closed-borders, racially-pure society that you seem keen to protect.


There's a difference between closed borders and wide open borders you'll agree, and the difference between the two does not equate to fascism. And he wasn't fighting for the failed and bankrupt experiment called multiculturalism that's for sure. Hitler's plan for Britain was well known, indentured slavery.

You're a rich lawyer Cropley, you can afford cosy social liberal sentiments because it has no material impact on your life. Per the census the numbers of migrants coming here is not sustainable. We've added 3,000,000 since 2001, you think that can continue? I'm not talking about professional, educated, skilled migrants here. Those are a welcome addition but the minority.

[CropleyWasGod]

There's a difference between closed borders and wide open borders you'll agree, and the difference between the two does not equate to fascism. And he wasn't fighting for the failed and bankrupt experiment called multiculturalism that's for sure. Hitler's plan for Britain was well known, indentured slavery.

You're a rich lawyer Cropley, you can afford cosy social liberal sentiments because it has no material impact on your life. Per the census the numbers of migrants coming here is not sustainable. We've added 3,000,000 since 2001, you think that can continue? I'm not talking about professional, educated, skilled migrants here. Those are a welcome addition but the minority.

I am neither rich nor a lawyer. You have no idea what impact immigration has on my life.

However, I do know that it adds to the fabric of our culture, and has a net positive effect on our economy. I also know that it isn't without its problems. Those problems will be eased by market forces, in the same way that the so-called "Polish invasion" is now receding, and indeed is going the other way.

[marinello59]

There's a difference between closed borders and wide open borders you'll agree, and the difference between the two does not equate to fascism. And he wasn't fighting for the failed and bankrupt experiment called multiculturalism that's for sure. Hitler's plan for Britain was well known, indentured slavery.

You're a rich lawyer Cropley, you can afford cosy social liberal sentiments because it has no material impact on your life. Per the census the numbers of migrants coming here is not sustainable. We've added 3,000,000 since 2001, you think that can continue? I'm not talking about professional, educated, skilled migrants here. Those are a welcome addition but the minority.

You don't vote for the BNP by any chance do you?

[VickMackie]

I am neither rich nor a lawyer. You have no idea what impact immigration has on my life.

However, I do know that it adds to the fabric of our culture, and has a net positive effect on our economy. I also know that it isn't without its problems. Those problems will be eased by market forces, in the same way that the so-called "Polish invasion" is now receding, and indeed is going the other way.

Cropley, what do you mean by receding? Getting less each year or that there are now more going back to Eastern Europe than come each year?

Net migration is around 800,000 per annum from both EU and Non EU countries.

[CropleyWasGod]

Cropley, what do you mean by receding? Getting less each year or that there are now more going back to Eastern Europe than come each year?

Net migration is around 800,000 per annum from both EU and Non EU countries.

I am talking about Polish immigration in particular. Anecdotally, I accept, but it seems that that element is reducing.... and, I understand, because there is now a skills shortage in Poland, many are returning there.

[Beefster]

Cropley, what do you mean by receding? Getting less each year or that there are now more going back to Eastern Europe than come each year?

Net migration is around 800,000 per annum from both EU and Non EU countries.

Where are you getting the 800,000 figure? As far as I was aware, it was last reported as under 200,000.

[Hibrandenburg]

Not sure, he died in 1986. But he served in both wars. RSM in the first when in the trenches and was a reservist between wars so was called up early despite being in his 40's and sent to France, managed to get back somehow despite being surrounded by the Germans defending St Valery. Was at El Alamein in 42 and Normandy in 44. Quite a small guy but tough as old boots. 51st Highland Division. He came from the North West Highlands, a Catholic but with no Irish links. I didn't know him that well, 13 when he past, but he'd be turning in his grave at the state of this country given what he and his comrades sacrificed. Another open door to millions of Bulgarians and Romanians this December coming, why should this country pay for all these? The housing, education, health and welfare of these people is not this countries responsibility. Tip of an iceberg but kids don't get it.

Wow, just wow. Think the lads that went off to fight fascism and didn't come back will be turning in their graves at the thought of being used to uphold home bred fascist propaganda. Astonishingly paradoxical!

[LeighLoyal]

I am neither rich nor a lawyer. You have no idea what impact immigration has on my life.

However, I do know that it adds to the fabric of our culture, and has a net positive effect on our economy. I also know that it isn't without its problems. Those problems will be eased by market forces, in the same way that the so-called "Polish invasion" is now receding, and indeed is going the other way.



I thought you were a solicitor, apologies.


That is highly debateble regards positive affect, Cropley. The pressure on housing, social services, the fact many do not even speak English, can hardly be positive. Money is also sent to the home country rather than spent locally. The affect on the indigenous community is also problematic regards competition for social housing, schools and jobs. 'Fabric of our culture' is surely a wooly liberal sentiment and one you may beleive but neither here nor there. The Polish invasion is not going the other way, Cropley. Net migration is 200,000. That means 200k more came in than left in the most recent yearly figures. I am sometimes curious where bleeding heart Liberals and quasi Trade Unionists would draw the line on mass immigration. I assume there is no line and you would draw so anybody who can get here regardless of origin and motive can receive full UK residency and benefits. If that occurs, the money is going to run out and nobody will get a dime, public pensions et al. See Greece for proof.

[LeighLoyal]

Wow, just wow. Think the lads that went off to fight fascism and didn't come back will be turning in their graves at the thought of being used to uphold home bred fascist propaganda. Astonishingly paradoxical!



You think my grandad's generation wanted this country to be invaded via a corrupt institution called the EU rather than militarily by Hitler? Yes, I'm sure he'd be delighted. You are correct. Fighting fascism means we allow mass immigration and no border controls, thanks. I'm sure that will secure our children's future.

[Beefster]

I thought you were a solicitor, apologies.


That is highly debateble regards positive affect, Cropley. The pressure on housing, social services, the fact many do not even speak English, can hardly be positive. Money is also sent to the home country rather than spent locally. The affect on the indigenous community is also problematic regards competition for social housing, schools and jobs. 'Fabric of our culture' is surely a wooly liberal sentiment and one you may beleive but neither here nor there. The Polish invasion is not going the other way, Cropley. Net migration is 200,000. That means 200k more came in than left in the most recent yearly figures. I am sometimes curious where bleeding heart Liberals and quasi Trade Unionists would draw the line on mass immigration. I assume there is no line and you would draw so anybody who can get here regardless of origin and motive can receive full UK residency and benefits. If that occurs, the money is going to run out and nobody will get a dime, public pensions et al. See Greece for proof.

What proportion of immigrants to the UK claim benefits and social housing?

You do know that the financial effect of immigration to the UK is positive, right?

[Beefster]

You think my grandad's generation wanted this country to be invaded via a corrupt institution called the EU rather than militarily by Hitler? Yes, I'm sure he'd be delighted. You are correct. Fighting fascism means we allow mass immigration and no border controls, thanks. I'm sure that will secure our children's future.

You sound like a spokesman for the BNP.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Got a little carried away there by saying "law".

Though the Equality Act 2010 covers racial discrimination, after having a search online, I've realised that it doesn't appear to mention describing someone by the colour of their skin.

The Equality Lead for my employer has always stated that if unavoidable then you should describe someone by what colour their skin is; although its pretty uncommon to hear anyone describing someone as "olive".

To answer your question, If i had to, I'd describe a brown person as brown, a black person as black, a white person as white, an Asian as Asian.

I don't buy the PC Gone Mad nonsense spouted by some people on this thread announcing that it is no longer acceptable to describe someone by the colour of their skin, whilst "us being white is alright though".

There isn't an explicit glossary of acceptable and non acceptable racial terms but I think that simply describing someone as black, white or green is, by the definition of racism, implicitly defined as not being racist, which of course is legal under UK law. So in a round about way, it actually is covered by legislation.

Appreciate we have gone slightly off topic, but unless giving a description to the police why would a persons colour need to be referred to? I have never in all my years in Nigeria called someone or described someone as black. Where people do get confused is by the pc correct words to use though and there I do have sympathy. Not long ago it was said black people should be called coloured. That changed but i never saw any announcement regarding it. Coloured is not acceptable now yet South African persons still refer to themselves as Cape coloureds. It is a minefield and no matter what anyone says, someone somewhere will take offence when no offence was meant.

[hibby rae]

Not sure, he died in 1986. But he served in both wars. RSM in the first when in the trenches and was a reservist between wars so was called up early despite being in his 40's and sent to France, managed to get back somehow despite being surrounded by the Germans defending St Valery. Was at El Alamein in 42 and Normandy in 44. Quite a small guy but tough as old boots. 51st Highland Division. He came from the North West Highlands, a Catholic but with no Irish links. I didn't know him that well, 13 when he past, but he'd be turning in his grave at the state of this country given what he and his comrades sacrificed. Another open door to millions of Bulgarians and Romanians this December coming, why should this country pay for all these? The housing, education, health and welfare of these people is not this countries responsibility. Tip of an iceberg but kids don't get it.

My grandad also served in the 51st Highland Div for 5 years during WW2 and I know for a fact that he was a very welcoming individual with no prejudices and he would disagree with everything you've said.

[LeighLoyal]

Fair enough people. It's pretty hard to disentangle decades of trade union and socialist brain washing which is traditional in Scotland and passed down through the generations. If you are all happy to see more and more mass immigration and muliculturalism here, which has failed in England, then all well and good. Throw away your birthright.


Just to be clear, I'm for good immigration - I.E people that have skills we need, not anybody that can get here via the EU or illegally as 1.5m are just now. Even Mr Milliband admits Labour got it wrong not imposing restrictions in 05. His words!


And to those throwing the BNP slur. :fenlon UKIP is a non racist party that wants an asylum bill, control of borders, I.E an immigration policy, which can only be done by leaving the EU, and the repeal of the odious Human Rights Act. 14% of the country currently support this party, although 70% say they support the policies. Obviously the socialist legacy in Scotland has to catch up. :rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

Fair enough people. It's pretty hard to disentangle decades of trade union and socialist brain washing which is traditional in Scotland and passed down through the generations. If you are all happy to see more and more mass immigration and muliculturalism here, which has failed in England, then all well and good. Throw away your birthright.


Just to be clear, I'm for good immigration - I.E people that have skills we need, not anybody that can get here via the EU or illegally as 1.5m are just now. Even Mr Milliband admits Labour got it wrong not imposing restrictions in 05. His words!


And to those throwing the BNP slur. :fenlon UKIP is a non racist party that wants an asylum bill, control of borders, I.E an immigration policy, which can only be done by leaving the EU, and the repeal of the odious Human Rights Act. 14% of the country currently support this party, although 70% say they support the policies. Obviously the socialist legacy in Scotland has to catch up. :rolleyes:

Almost everyone disagrees with you, so, the natural conclusion you come to?

Everyone's been brainwashed. Except you.

:aok:

[JimBHibees]

Fair enough people. It's pretty hard to disentangle decades of trade union and socialist brain washing which is traditional in Scotland and passed down through the generations. If you are all happy to see more and more mass immigration and muliculturalism here, which has failed in England, then all well and good. Throw away your birthright.


Just to be clear, I'm for good immigration - I.E people that have skills we need, not anybody that can get here via the EU or illegally as 1.5m are just now. Even Mr Milliband admits Labour got it wrong not imposing restrictions in 05. His words!


And to those throwing the BNP slur. :fenlon UKIP is a non racist party that wants an asylum bill, control of borders, I.E an immigration policy, which can only be done by leaving the EU, and the repeal of the odious Human Rights Act. 14% of the country currently support this party, although 70% say they support the policies. Obviously the socialist legacy in Scotland has to catch up. :rolleyes:

Dear oh dear, what patronising nonsense is that. I think the brain washing is more than likely been done by you no doubt listening and reading ill informed right wing junk. UKIP do me a favour. I notice you havent answered the point about immigration having a positive financial impact.

[marinello59]

Fair enough people. It's pretty hard to disentangle decades of trade union and socialist brain washing which is traditional in Scotland and passed down through the generations. If you are all happy to see more and more mass immigration and muliculturalism here, which has failed in England, then all well and good. Throw away your birthright.


Just to be clear, I'm for good immigration - I.E people that have skills we need, not anybody that can get here via the EU or illegally as 1.5m are just now. Even Mr Milliband admits Labour got it wrong not imposing restrictions in 05. His words!


And to those throwing the BNP slur. :fenlon UKIP is a non racist party that wants an asylum bill, control of borders, I.E an immigration policy, which can only be done by leaving the EU, and the repeal of the odious Human Rights Act. 14% of the country currently support this party, although 70% say they support the policies. Obviously the socialist legacy in Scotland has to catch up. :rolleyes:

Winner of the most condescending cr@p of the year award. If somebody has a different view point from you then they are brainwashed automatons. Beefster in particular will be delighted to be dismissed as an unthinking Socialist. :faf:

I didn't throw a BNP slur at you by the way. I asked you if you voted for them ............you didn't answer.

[Dinkydoo]

Appreciate we have gone slightly off topic, but unless giving a description to the police why would a persons colour need to be referred to? I have never in all my years in Nigeria called someone or described someone as black. Where people do get confused is by the pc correct words to use though and there I do have sympathy. Not long ago it was said black people should be called coloured. That changed but i never saw any announcement regarding it. Coloured is not acceptable now yet South African persons still refer to themselves as Cape coloureds. It is a minefield and no matter what anyone says, someone somewhere will take offence when no offence was meant.

My job involves doing statistical analysis of our workforce, which at an anonymised level, includes ethnicity. So I do from time to time have a requirement to talk about statistics relating to people who share the sane ethnicity. This is obviously different from trying to pigeon hole an individuals skin colour at a very personal level and I too can only think of a few circumstances where doing so would be necessary.

Let's not forget the original comment I was responding to:


It seems that "racism" takes on new definitions every year. I don't think you're even allowed to describe a dark skinned person as "black" anymore. It's "African American".

We can still be described as "white" though. That's alright. :confused:

Regardless of the situation, so long as the context you are using the description in is not a derogatory one, describing a "dark skinned person" as "Black" is NOT illegal, which is the point I was trying to make. Inserting a derogatory comment to that same statement that implies there is something wrong with being Black, White or whatever, is racist.

I do feel sorry for people who are genuinely trying to be polite (like I was when initially informed that 'coloured' wasn't an acceptable term) and who do not know what the currently accepted terminology is, but I disagree that "it is a minefield." . That slightly contradicts an earlier point you made about having the requirement to actually refer to a persons skin colour - which I agree with. If for most people there isn't a requirement, then what's the problem, how can remembering not to use one word be a minefield.....?

For what it's worth, the term "coloured" was deemed no longer acceptable in the UK partially because it groups several skin colours other than white together into one category. I don't think it's illegal to use such a term but if you are referring to one ethnicity then its certainly not preferable. Language evolves and words changing in meaning and interpretation isn't uncommon, so I struggle a little when trying to comprehend that people have no problem in accepting other changes to the English language, but not ones relating to racism.

Maybe I am wrong though. If anyone else thinks that ensuring what you are saying relating to racism is a minefield, could you give examples of any other words that are confusing you, excluding the term "coloured"?

[Beefster]

Fair enough people. It's pretty hard to disentangle decades of trade union and socialist brain washing which is traditional in Scotland and passed down through the generations.

Beats being called a 'Tory bawbag', I suppose.

[VickMackie]

Where are you getting the 800,000 figure? As far as I was aware, it was last reported as under 200,000.

That's because you've been hit by government spin. Those figures refer to non EU immigration e.g Brazil, China etc. I'm on the phone but I recently put a post in the holy ground with my sources and why the <200,000 is bollocks. I'll try look it out at the weekend if you're still interested.

[VickMackie]

I am talking about Polish immigration in particular. Anecdotally, I accept, but it seems that that element is reducing.... and, I understand, because there is now a skills shortage in Poland, many are returning there.

It always interested me the impact of so many migrants leaving their country and the impact it has had. Also, with Polish people sending money home I assume it pushes up inflation aswell. Any ideas if that's correct?

[VickMackie]

I'm struggling to remember now if it wa 800,000 or around 500,000. Going to need to find this now!

[CropleyWasGod]

It always interested me the impact of so many migrants leaving their country and the impact it has had. Also, with Polish people sending money home I assume it pushes up inflation aswell. Any ideas if that's correct?

In theory, it would do, but the economy is depressed as it is so I don't think it has. Ready to be proved wrong, though.

I do know you canny get a plumber in Warsaw though :greengrin

[The Green Goblin]

A figure that is rarely quoted, is the annual number of people leaving the UK to live elsewhere. Surely, any discussion of immigration figures can only be balanced by including both? (Immigration and Emmigration)

[The Green Goblin]

I'm not sure where to get such figures btw, from anywhere they could reasonably be considered valid or trustworthy. Perhaps a more learned poster could help?

[Beefster]

That's because you've been hit by government spin. Those figures refer to non EU immigration e.g Brazil, China etc. I'm on the phone but I recently put a post in the holy ground with my sources and why the <200,000 is bollocks. I'll try look it out at the weekend if you're still interested.


I'm struggling to remember now if it wa 800,000 or around 500,000. Going to need to find this now!

The 500,000 (approx) is inward migration and doesn't take into account folk leaving the UK. Net migration is around 200,000 including EU nationals.

http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-and-uk


A figure that is rarely quoted, is the annual number of people leaving the UK to live elsewhere. Surely, any discussion of immigration figures can only be balanced by including both? (Immigration and Emmigration)

The net migration figures take the total of people in minus the total out.

[Lucius Apuleius]

My job involves doing statistical analysis of our workforce, which at an anonymised level, includes ethnicity. So I do from time to time have a requirement to talk about statistics relating to people who share the sane ethnicity. This is obviously different from trying to pigeon hole an individuals skin colour at a very personal level and I too can only think of a few circumstances where doing so would be necessary.

Let's not forget the original comment I was responding to:



Regardless of the situation, so long as the context you are using the description in is not a derogatory one, describing a "dark skinned person" as "Black" is NOT illegal, which is the point I was trying to make. Inserting a derogatory comment to that same statement that implies there is something wrong with being Black, White or whatever, is racist.

I do feel sorry for people who are genuinely trying to be polite (like I was when initially informed that 'coloured' wasn't an acceptable term) and who do not know what the currently accepted terminology is, but I disagree that "it is a minefield." . That slightly contradicts an earlier point you made about having the requirement to actually refer to a persons skin colour - which I agree with. If for most people there isn't a requirement, then what's the problem, how can remembering not to use one word be a minefield.....?

For what it's worth, the term "coloured" was deemed no longer acceptable in the UK partially because it groups several skin colours other than white together into one category. I don't think it's illegal to use such a term but if you are referring to one ethnicity then its certainly not preferable. Language evolves and words changing in meaning and interpretation isn't uncommon, so I struggle a little when trying to comprehend that people have no problem in accepting other changes to the English language, but not ones relating to racism.

Maybe I am wrong though. If anyone else thinks that ensuring what you are saying relating to racism is a minefield, could you give examples of any other words that are confusing you, excluding the term "coloured"?

Why does it include ethnicity? What purpose does it have apart from a company/authority being able to say they are really nice people and employ lots of non-whites? Religion is the same by the way. I see no need for it.

You also touch on when you were informed that coloured was no longer an acceptable term. Who told the populace at large? I was never told. All of a sudden we had people had jumping down our throats telling us that the new coloured was black and nobody was a colour. I am not disagreeing with the change of word, I do have an issue with a change in a word's usage by certain people and then expecting everybody else to be immediately aware of it and cease using it for anything else. Don't get me started on the hijacking of gay for instance!!!! :greengrin

I personal don't have any words that confuse me. I am pretty well known for calling a spade a spade. My earlier reference was a question if I recall not a statement of my opinion.

[hibby rae]

I'm not sure where to get such figures btw, from anywhere they could reasonably be considered valid or trustworthy. Perhaps a more learned poster could help?

http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/statistics/theme/migration/mig-stats/scotland-overseas.html

A very quick look at the figures show that overall between 2010/2011 a figure of around 25,000 more people arrived in Scotland from overseas and 3,000 from other parts of the population. However, I would alsolook at the birth to death ratio in the country( not sure what it is) along with the fact that we have an aging population. Or I could spout ill-informed right wing rhetoric?

[Just Alf]

Black, coloured etc drives me insane.....

As a kid I had it drummed into me NOT to call anyone black, yellow etc.... They were coloured!


Now it's the opposite..... I can see why to be fair... white(ish) is a colour too after all....


I still think its a a bit much that peeps get slated for using the word "coloured" (was it Andy Gray?) when as kids we were given the belt for NOT using it.

PC gone mad?

[The Green Goblin]

http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/statistics/theme/migration/mig-stats/scotland-overseas.html

A very quick look at the figures show that overall between 2010/2011 a figure of around 25,000 more people arrived in Scotland from overseas and 3,000 from other parts of the population. However, I would alsolook at the birth to death ratio in the country( not sure what it is) along with the fact that we have an aging population. Or I could spout ill-informed right wing rhetoric?

You could :greengrin but I think there's plenty of folks doing that already. Thanks for the link etc. It seems to be large scale generalised figures that get thrown about in these debates, usually to argue against immigration (e.g "how will we cope with a million more Poles etc.") which doesn't help anyone. It is interesting to note that it's only certain nationalities who are "undesired" to those in broad agreement with UKIP/BNP politics. I rarely hear people moaning about French people in Scotland, or Australians, or Americans, or Germans, or Spanish, or Irish, Canadians, or Italians, and there's people of these nationalities living in Scotland (and others I could have mentioned there). It's a selective prejudice then, imo, which only makes it all the more distasteful.

[Beefster]

Black, coloured etc drives me insane.....

As a kid I had it drummed into me NOT to call anyone black, yellow etc.... They were coloured!


Now it's the opposite..... I can see why to be fair... white(ish) is a colour too after all....


I still think its a a bit much that peeps get slated for using the word "coloured" (was it Andy Gray?) when as kids we were given the belt for NOT using it.

PC gone mad?

Words change as time passes, are reclaimed for positive or become hopelessly associated with a derogatory stereotype.

[Dinkydoo]

Why does it include ethnicity? What purpose does it have apart from a company/authority being able to say they are really nice people and employ lots of non-whites? Religion is the same by the way. I see no need for it.

You also touch on when you were informed that coloured was no longer an acceptable term. Who told the populace at large? I was never told. All of a sudden we had people had jumping down our throats telling us that the new coloured was black and nobody was a colour. I am not disagreeing with the change of word, I do have an issue with a change in a word's usage by certain people and then expecting everybody else to be immediately aware of it and cease using it for anything else. Don't get me started on the hijacking of gay for instance!!!! :greengrin

I personal don't have any words that confuse me. I am pretty well known for calling a spade a spade. My earlier reference was a question if I recall not a statement of my opinion.

I work within the public sector so much of our workforce analysis is an obligation placed on us at a national level. This is certainly the case regarding reporting on our equality and diversity data. Honestly though, I'm just the information officer, I provide data and statistical measures such as turnover and sickness absence rates for internal workforce development and in answer to FOIs because I'm good at working with databases and extracting/manipulating data. My time being split between work and uni means that I don't have much room for development at present, and as such I'm rarely involved at the strategic level where this information is used in a meaningful manner - which, I'm not really bothered about either, since ultimately I want to end up on a different career path post degree.

I have my own feelings on using data relating to equality and diversity - I.e; any of the protected characteristics like sexual orientation, religion, transgendered status.....etc - which, are not too far from yours, but as I've said, it's a matter that is discussed and agreed on at a level above my (and certainly most of my colleague's) head.

I agree, changing the meaning of words without publicising it properly isn't great, but the word coloured has been superseded by more relevant terms for some time now, so I don't think that many people should have a problem with avoiding its use.

You said, to paraphrase, "I don't care what anyone says, It is a minefield. Someone somewhere will always find something to be offended at, regardless of the initial intention." hence why I felt it necessary to open up the discussion and ask anyone else making this claim if there are any other words or phrases relating to racism that they find confusing in meaning; maybe I'm missing something....

I do agree with the second part of that statement, but its not necessarily related to the first part.

[lapsedhibee]

I still think its a a bit much that peeps get slated for using the word "coloured" (was it Andy Gray?) when as kids we were given the belt for NOT using it.



Hansen. Disgrace that he wasn't hounded out of the BBC for it. :panic:

[VickMackie]

The 500,000 (approx) is inward migration and doesn't take into account folk leaving the UK. Net migration is around 200,000 including EU nationals.

http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-and-uk



The net migration figures take the total of people in minus the total out.

I found my post.




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9711047/UK-migration-falls-by-a-quarter-as-student-and-foreign-worker-numbers-fall.html

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/november-2012/index.html

Net migration to the UK is NOT down below 200,000. The NET non EU migrants are below 200,000. This does not factor in EU migration (which is what this thread is about).

I've only been able to track down 2010 figures for EU migration but 2010 shows around 800,000 NET EU citizens coming into the UK. See figure 5.

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/eu-migrants-other-eu-countries-analysis-bilateral-migrant-stocks

Replicate this across EU and non EU and there's 1,000,000 legal immigrants coming into the country with an unquantified number entering via illegal means.

I'd easily hazard a guess that we'll see 500,000+ Romanian's in the first year or two entering the UK.

I'm not particularly interested if Romanian's move here but if they're planning on sitting around begging etc then it shouldn't be allowed. We're already seeing them here.

I'll take a look at the figures you've shown just now.

[VickMackie]

I don't know why my figures vary so differently. Is it perhaps because yours are the Long Term International Migration where they are stating they will stay for at least one year?

The figures I had were also from 2010 so that will account for some of the difference unless I'm interpreting the diagram or the full range of data incorrectly.

[Beefster]

I don't know why my figures vary so differently. Is it perhaps because yours are the Long Term International Migration where they are stating they will stay for at least one year?

The figures I had were also from 2010 so that will account for some of the difference unless I'm interpreting the diagram or the full range of data incorrectly.

The only approx. 800,000 figure I can find on your link is for net migration stock. This means that we have 800,000 approx. more EU nationals living in Britain than there are UK nationals living in other EU countries (mainly Spain and Ireland). It doesn't mean we have 800,000 more arriving in a single year though.

[VickMackie]

The only approx. 800,000 figure I can find on your link is for net migration stock. This means that we have 800,000 approx. more EU nationals living in Britain than there are UK nationals living in other EU countries (mainly Spain and Ireland). It doesn't mean we have 800,000 more arriving in a single year though.

I see.

I've took a rough estimate across the figure 5 diagram for the positive and negative values to get the 800k.

I'll have a closer look at the weekend to get a better handle on the stats.