League Reconstruction for 2013/14 (merged)

[marinello59]

How many times do the English FA need to come out and say "we don't want/need..." these vile institutions before it sinks in??

Green is new to the charade but Lawell (who is also bleating again this morning) has been here before.

Nobody wants these cancerous clubs in their league except the beaks who govern our league and can't envisage life without them.

I think Lawell accepts that England is not an option but some form of cross border league with other European nations may be the way forward. The Europa League was supposed to kill that idea off but it simply doesn't work.

[Ozyhibby]

How many times do the English FA need to come out and say "we don't want/need..." these vile institutions before it sinks in??

Green is new to the charade but Lawell (who is also bleating again this morning) has been here before.

Nobody wants these cancerous clubs in their league except the beaks who govern our league and can't envisage life without them.

Things can change. We are about to have an Independance referendum and all sorts of things can happen during a political campaign.
Fact is that Scottish business's are being denied access to the biggest market in the UK. A robust legal challenge or political pressure applied in the right place can change things.
Say Charles Green or Peter Lawell starts to ask why supporters of their clubs should vote to stay in the union when they are treated like second class citizens with no chance to grow their business like other companies in the UK. I'm not saying that this will happen but just that it's possible.
What I am certain is that the Scottish league will not survive much longer and integration with other leagues is inevitable.

[ScottB]

I half expect UEFA to try and head this all off at the pass.

Perhaps we get regional divisions of a European League, say Britain, Iberia, Scandanavia etc. with the leading teams moving on to a Superbowl style play off phase? League Cups could be scrapped for a pan European cup tournament, with current FA Cups remaining?

Inevitably some sort of new structure will emerge, probably better that UEFA lead it rather than it being the 20 biggest clubs just packing up and heading off alone...

[EuanH78]

Am I missing something here?

What the hell is this proposal meant to achieve. It's not rocket science - look at the most successful leagues. EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, Seria A and emulate it. 18 - 20 teams. Seems to work for the top leagues in Europe anyway....

Case closed or not?

Yes, its been done before here but 3 pts for a win changes things a little, also teams just below the top (sadly two in future) only have the potential to lose 6pts from the top team rather than 12 making league closer. More competition means teams have to be on top of their game making them also more competitive in Europe hopefully, better results in Europe make more places available further down the league meaning less meaningless games.

Rome wasnt built in a day but FFS its pretty straightforward.

[blackpoolhibs]

There is no desire to make things better, only to make a few richer. :rolleyes:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Am I missing something here?

What the hell is this proposal meant to achieve. It's not rocket science - look at the most successful leagues. EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, Seria A and emulate it. 18 - 20 teams. Seems to work for the top leagues in Europe anyway....

Case closed or not?

Yes, its been done before here but 3 pts for a win changes things a little, also teams just below the top (sadly two in future) only have the potential to lose 6pts from the top team rather than 12 making league closer. More competition means teams have to be on top of their game making them also more competitive in Europe hopefully, better results in Europe make more places available further down the league meaning less meaningless games.

Rome wasnt built in a day but FFS its pretty straightforward.

There are only five million people in Scotland and the majority of people who are interested in football support one of two clubs. That means there are at most 20 clubs who can reasonably sustain full-time professional football. To have a top division of 18-20 teams of consistently good standard you need at least 30 professional clubs.

[EuanH78]

There are only five million people in Scotland and the majority of people who are interested in football support one of two clubs. That means there are at most 20 clubs who can reasonably sustain full-time professional football. To have a top division of 18-20 teams of consistently good standard you need at least 30 professional clubs.

Maybe in a league setup that wasnt created for the benefit of a couple of teams we might see people drift back to watch their local team if they had half a chance of having a decent season. Like I said, Rome wasnt built in a day.

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe in a league setup that wasnt created for the benefit of a couple of teams we might see people drift back to watch their local team if they had half a chance of having a decent season. Like I said, Rome wasnt built in a day.

That's just it, though, the essence of the new set-up is re-distribution of income. It's palpably not about just two teams.

[GoldenEagle]

That's just it, though, the essence of the new set-up is re-distribution of income. It's palpably not about just two teams.

Doesn't matter how many times is explained, quoted or discussed there will always be those that will never see anything but an OF alliance and cartel, thus giving them a reason not to support Hibs.

[lucky]

Sky tv money has changed football forever in the UK. Scottish clubs can't compete with EPL or championship teams on salaries as such our game is going to continue to slide. I think its inevitable that we will end up with a British league or a European one.

[Ozyhibby]

Sky tv money has changed football forever in the UK. Scottish clubs can't compete with EPL or championship teams on salaries as such our game is going to continue to slide. I think its inevitable that we will end up with a British league or a European one.

Let's just hope Hibs are ready to be part of it and involved in the discussions from an early stage.
Be a bonus if there was no hearts as well. :-)

[Sylar]

A British or European league would be a farcical move IMO.

We struggle to take a couple of hundred fans away to grounds like Inverness, Ross County, Killie etc on account of travelling distance, cost etc...

What reasonably makes anyone think we'll amass sizable supports across the larger UK or indeed Europe on a weekly basis?

It's not practical and would be the final "**** you" to the football fans.

[Ozyhibby]

A British or European league would be a farcical move IMO.

We struggle to take a couple of hundred fans away to grounds like Inverness, Ross County, Killie etc on account of travelling distance, cost etc...

What reasonably makes anyone think we'll amass sizable supports across the larger UK or indeed Europe on a weekly basis?

It's not practical and would be the final "**** you" to the football fans.

You don't think a game between Hibs and Ajax will get a bigger crowd along to Easter road than Hibs v Kilmarnock?
In the Spanish league The distance between Barca and Tenerife is about 1300 miles. Edinburgh to Copenhagen is about 600 miles.
Less than 10% of fans bother with away games anyway.

[Stevie Reid]

No one who would need to give the go ahead to British League (FIFA,UEFA, The FA, Sky) would be remotely interested in one - never mind the logistics behind it, why on earth would the English teams have any desire to face up against Scottish teams on a regular basis?

That @rsehole Charles Green talked about a European League being the only way forward, and being driven by the broadcasters and not the respective football authorities - but a closed shop style top 20 league of European teams is the exact opposite of what UEFA are currently trying to achieve with their financial fair play rules.

Green's words are those of a desperate man who has realised that for all their huge attendances and the fact that they are walking the 3rd division, has realised that ultimately The Rangers have as much say in the future of Scottish football as every other team in their league, and is therefore trying to appear as if they somehow have more power and influence than they do.

The English Premiership is an incredibly marketable league and makes ridiculous amounts of money from being sold throughout the world - underneath that, the Championship is the 5th richest league in the world and an incredibly competitive league, with the vast majority of teams in it with serious aspirations of gaining a place in the EPL and the £50M that goes along with it - I don't really see why The Premier League, The FA or Sky would have any interest in agreeing to a big European League system that would undermine their current set up. The Champions League is a great tournament as well, I don't really see that changing drastically in the coming years either.

Scottish football needs to change for sure - but people are massively overstating our standing in the world if they somehow think that the rest of Europe needs to change with us.

[Ozyhibby]

No one who would need to give the go ahead to British League (FIFA,UEFA, The FA, Sky) would be remotely interested in one - never mind the logistics behind it, why on earth would the English teams have any desire to face up against Scottish teams on a regular basis?

That @rsehole Charles Green talked about a European League being the only way forward, and being driven by the broadcasters and not the respective football authorities - but a closed shop style top 20 league of European teams is the exact opposite of what UEFA are currently trying to achieve with their financial fair play rules.

Green's words are those of a desperate man who has realised that for all their huge attendances and the fact that they are walking the 3rd division, has realised that ultimately The Rangers have as much say in the future of Scottish football as every other team in their league, and is therefore trying to appear as if they somehow have more power and influence than they do.

The English Premiership is an incredibly marketable league and makes ridiculous amounts of money from being sold throughout the world - underneath that, the Championship is the 5th richest league in the world and an incredibly competitive league, with the vast majority of teams in it with serious aspirations of gaining a place in the EPL and the £50M that goes along with it - I don't really see why The Premier League, The FA or Sky would have any interest in agreeing to a big European League system that would undermine their current set up. The Champions League is a great tournament as well, I don't really see that changing drastically in the coming years either.

Scottish football needs to change for sure - but people are massively overstating our standing in the world if they somehow think that the rest of Europe needs to change with us.

I agree with that and I do not think there is any chance of us joining the English leagues. The much talked of Atlantic league is much more likely and there is interest among Europes smaller countries as they are squeezed out of the big money by Europes big 5 leagues.
Clubs like Ajax are smarting at losing their young talent before the age of twenty to average clubs in England with the luxury of Sky tv money.
Change is coming, sooner rather than later.

[Gerard]

I would like to see a top league of 18 teams and two leagues of 12. At this time we are told by the teams in the first divison that many of them need more cash to survive. Dunfermline are such a team. You could take the view that is their problem. If you do see teams like Dunfermline going bust then where will the teams come from to make this bigger league?
I like the idea of going back to one governing body. I also like the idea of trying to make Scottish football a more entertaining sport again. So this proposal is far from perfect but perhaps better than we have at this time.

[down-the-slope]

No one who would need to give the go ahead to British League (FIFA,UEFA, The FA, Sky) would be remotely interested in one - never mind the logistics behind it, why on earth would the English teams have any desire to face up against Scottish teams on a regular basis?

That @rsehole Charles Green talked about a European League being the only way forward, and being driven by the broadcasters and not the respective football authorities - but a closed shop style top 20 league of European teams is the exact opposite of what UEFA are currently trying to achieve with their financial fair play rules.

Green's words are those of a desperate man who has realised that for all their huge attendances and the fact that they are walking the 3rd division, has realised that ultimately The Rangers have as much say in the future of Scottish football as every other team in their league, and is therefore trying to appear as if they somehow have more power and influence than they do.

The English Premiership is an incredibly marketable league and makes ridiculous amounts of money from being sold throughout the world - underneath that, the Championship is the 5th richest league in the world and an incredibly competitive league, with the vast majority of teams in it with serious aspirations of gaining a place in the EPL and the £50M that goes along with it - I don't really see why The Premier League, The FA or Sky would have any interest in agreeing to a big European League system that would undermine their current set up. The Champions League is a great tournament as well, I don't really see that changing drastically in the coming years either.

Scottish football needs to change for sure - but people are massively overstating our standing in the world if they somehow think that the rest of Europe needs to change with us.

:agree: agree with most of what you say...bit in bold is however not true. They have NO VOTE, at all for 4 years as part of agreement to accept them into div 3...for those who keep lambasting our games administrators, there is a lot they have done / got right in what must be a very difficult situation to deal with. The realisation that the agreements are being stuck to and they have less say than Stirling Albion is starting to dawn on Chuckie...unless he has a league to play in he has no cash cow to milk.....

[Sylar]

You don't think a game between Hibs and Ajax will get a bigger crowd along to Easter road than Hibs v Kilmarnock?
In the Spanish league The distance between Barca and Tenerife is about 1300 miles. Edinburgh to Copenhagen is about 600 miles.
Less than 10% of fans bother with away games anyway.

I guess it would depend on the calibre of opposition who would commit to the league and where about we would enter into any structure.

Let's say, for argument sake, that a British league becomes apparent and we enter into it at the third or fourth tier - can you really see us getting much of an away crowd down to some of the lower league English clubs?

We're certainly never likely to enter into the top tier of any new structure which encompasses either British or European leagues so suggesting we'd regularly face clubs of the calibre of the likes of Ajax is a bit unreleastic, no?

[Ozyhibby]

I guess it would depend on the calibre of opposition who would commit to the league and where about we would enter into any structure.

Let's say, for argument sake, that a British league becomes apparent and we enter into it at the third or fourth tier - can you really see us getting much of an away crowd down to some of the lower league English clubs?

We're certainly never likely to enter into the top tier of any new structure which encompasses either British or European leagues so suggesting we'd regularly face clubs of the calibre of the likes of Ajax is a bit unreleastic, no?

My point was that replacing the 150 killie fans who travel to Easter road would not be that difficult.
Say we were playing Helsinborgs in a league fixture. You don't think that would attract an extra 150 Hibs fans along? Especially given that we could attract a better quality player if we were in a stronger league with more tv money.
A merger involving Sweden, Norway, Denmark and ourselves would give a Twenty team league with all teams averaging 10,000 at home each week and access to a 30million strong media market.

[blackpoolhibs]

My point was that replacing the 150 killie fans who travel to Easter road would not be that difficult.
Say we were playing Helsinborgs in a league fixture. You don't think that would attract an extra 150 Hibs fans along? Especially given that we could attract a better quality player if we were in a stronger league with more tv money.
A merger involving Sweden, Norway, Denmark and ourselves would give a Twenty team league with all teams averaging 10,000 at home each week and access to a 30million strong media market.

Why would a 2nd or 3rd tier European league create bigger crowds and tv money than the Europa league does now? Even the Champions league in the early stages are not all sell outs, and prices are reduced and fringe players played?

[Hibeesforever]

There are only five million people in Scotland and the majority of people who are interested in football support one of two clubs. That means there are at most 20 clubs who can reasonably sustain full-time professional football. To have a top division of 18-20 teams of consistently good standard you need at least 30 professional clubs.

Think you are missing the point, as your name suggests, the most sensible option for Scottish football could be to have a larger league but recognise that half the teams in the top division are not full-time.

Part-time seems to work pretty well in Scandanavia, and their populations and infrastructure is similar to ours.

In this discussion, I do not hear anything about what is the best structure to encourage young players and is in the best interests of the Scottish National team.

Today, in Scotland, it must be recognised that if our players are any good, they will naturally gravitate to England or one of the richer European leagues.

Therefore, the Scottish leagues should be development areas for young Scottish players and suit what the paying fans want, not the armchair spectators, who are just part-timers that turn up for cup finals.

A 12-12-12 set up just generates huge pressure on players and managers, totally counter-productive to composed football of the quality that would be capable of competing with the best in Europe.

[ScottB]

I suspect that if cold hard logic was used, 2 divisions of 18 with a regional structure below it would suffice. Or 3 divisions including B sides from whatever top league sides wanted to do so.

There's limited money available to any Scottish structure, regardless of what form it may take. Spreading it around 42 clubs just makes that worse. We have far too many in the current set up, many of which are no bigger, indeed many are smaller, than teams in the junior set ups.

Not that turkeys will ever vote for Christmas, but if we were to have a clean sheet of paper, I suspect that would be the best for the overall standard of the game in this country and the players we'd be producing.

Our current 12 plus Morton, Dunfermline, Partick, Livingston, Raith and Falkirk would still leave a relatively healthy 18 teams worthy of inclusion from the remaining 24.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Think you are missing the point, as your name suggests, the most sensible option for Scottish football could be to have a larger league but recognise that half the teams in the top division are not full-time.

Part-time seems to work pretty well in Scandanavia, and their populations and infrastructure is similar to ours.

In this discussion, I do not hear anything about what is the best structure to encourage young players and is in the best interests of the Scottish National team.

Today, in Scotland, it must be recognised that if our players are any good, they will naturally gravitate to England or one of the richer European leagues.

Therefore, the Scottish leagues should be development areas for young Scottish players and suit what the paying fans want, not the armchair spectators, who are just part-timers that turn up for cup finals.

A 12-12-12 set up just generates huge pressure on players and managers, totally counter-productive to composed football of the quality that would be capable of competing with the best in Europe.

The top divisions in Denmark, Norway and Sweden are fully professional, so I'm not quite sure what the point is you're making. They haven't been part-time or amateur for decades. Perhaps not co-incidentally, Denmark and Norway have made far more impact in international football since their leagues became professional.

[Stevie Reid]

:agree: agree with most of what you say...bit in bold is however not true. They have NO VOTE, at all for 4 years as part of agreement to accept them into div 3...for those who keep lambasting our games administrators, there is a lot they have done / got right in what must be a very difficult situation to deal with. The realisation that the agreements are being stuck to and they have less say than Stirling Albion is starting to dawn on Chuckie...unless he has a league to play in he has no cash cow to milk.....

Didn't realise that but I'm very happy to be corrected here!

Agree with your point also, it does my nut in when anyone of a Rangers persuasion trots out the "we've been punished enough" line, but equally those who feel that they are still being pandered to are wide of the mark also.

[Hibee Ryan]

I'm so disappointed with the reconstruction plans. They're are so many possibilities that could be used that are a lot better! The 3 leagues of 8 thing seems incredibly unfair as if you finish 9th on GD then you are put in the second group and your season is effectively over as far as ambitions go!

Play-offs such as in England are a much better option, you play the full fixture list meaning the teams in the play-offs are much more deserving of being there! All I really wanted was play-offs and for it to go lower than the third division giving the teams near the bottom of the third division something to play for and it makes the highland league and such a lot more appealing to players

[Andy74]

I am pretty sure that The Rangers had been fully expecting to be invited into an SPL2 next season. As it looks more and more likely that they will have to work their way up the leagues the "proper" way, I feel they are getting more and more desperate.

Am I missing something with the SFL 3 bleating currently? Won't they all be moving a tier closer to the SPL under this proposal? With more opportunities if you get to the right end of your league to make it to the next league?

[hfc rd]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/209669-rangers-propose-new-14-14-14-scottish-league-restructure-plan/

Bloody stupid. Typical Charles Green.

[jonty]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/209669-rangers-propose-new-14-14-14-scottish-league-restructure-plan/

Bloody stupid. Typical Charles Green.

And he'll use to to complain that he's ignored when its...... ignored :greengrin

[offshorehibby]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/209669-rangers-propose-new-14-14-14-scottish-league-restructure-plan/

Bloody stupid. Typical Charles Green.

To be honest i first thought if we'd went with 14 x 3 he'd want the 12-12-18 just for a moan. If he was to expand his idea as to how it would work i'd be willing to listen.



I suspect that if cold hard logic was used, 2 divisions of 18 with a regional structure below it would suffice. Or 3 divisions including B sides from whatever top league sides wanted to do so.

There's limited money available to any Scottish structure, regardless of what form it may take. Spreading it around 42 clubs just makes that worse. We have far too many in the current set up, many of which are no bigger, indeed many are smaller, than teams in the junior set ups.


Our current 12 plus Morton, Dunfermline, Partick, Livingston, Raith and Falkirk would still leave a relatively healthy 18 teams worthy of inclusion from the remaining 24.

I'd always prefered a top league of 18 teams playing twice but did not think there was enough smaller teams to fill it. Looking at that i'd say it would work.

[VickMackie]

I voted for a 14 team league during discussions on here a few months back. I think that's the best we can do to increase the league and keep a decent level of income.

The problem would come when the bigger clubs want to keep more of the money.

[Gatecrasher]

I have to admit I have warmed to the idea a bit since my original post partly due to some good posts on here. I still have my concerns about it though but i suppose you cant make a change this big without having some concerns. If this proposal goes through and there becomes some sticking points I just hope the authorities deal with it quickly. We'll just need to wait and see i suppose

[LeighLoyal]

They would be playing SPL clubs if they are in top 4 of SPL 2 at split wouldn't they?

Wouldn't rule out some other method of getting them there quicker as well. Annything is possible with our authorities imo.



No way should any Sevco fastrack be on the table.

[StevieC]

No way should any Sevco fastrack be on the table.

The only real "fast-track" would be that they would have a much higher chance of reaching the SPL in an 8 way fight than fighting for a single promotion place.
I can't believe though, that this is being done to ensure they don't miss out in the battle for the single promotion place in 2 years time, but you never know.

[StevieC]

Can someone tell me which league in England the OF will get to play each other 4 times?

A factor which seems to be critical in the reconstruction of the leagues up here.

[CentreLine]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/209669-rangers-propose-new-14-14-14-scottish-league-restructure-plan/

Bloody stupid. Typical Charles Green.

This was something that Jim Traynor was banging on about on the BBC about a year back. Looks to me like he has finally found an ear and someone who believes he has the answers to all of Scottish football's ills.

[Mr White]

This was something that Jim Traynor was banging on about on the BBC about a year back. Looks to me like he has finally found an ear and someone who believes he has the answers to all of Scottish football's ills.

In fairness a 14 team league top league with a 6/8 split could work I reckon. What I would take issue with is greens motivation for bringing it up now, just days after reiterating a desire to leave Scottish football. They're worried about being left out of the discussion is the only explanation I can see.

[StevieC]

If he was to expand his idea as to how it would work i'd be willing to listen.

That's a pretty important aspect of his proposal that seems to be ommitted. :greengrin

Play each other 2, 3 or 4 times a season? Does it incorporate a split? What are the promotion/relegation criteria?

At the moment he's getting paper space for thowing a few numbers around, which seems ridiculous.


What I would take issue with is greens motivation for bringing it up now, just days after reiterating a desire to leave Scottish football. They're worried about being left out of the discussion is the only explanation I can see.

I thought that their current membership to the SFL prevented them from having an actual say/vote on any proposals? All they can do is throw about some idea's, exactly the same as me, you and anyone remotely interested in expressing an opinion?

[Mr White]

That's a pretty important aspect of his proposal that seems to be ommitted. :greengrin

Play each other 2, 3 or 4 times a season? Does it incorporate a split? What are the promotion/relegation criteria?

At the moment he's getting paper space for thowing a few numbers around, which seems ridiculous.
it'd have to be a 6-8 split after 2 rounds of games giving a 36 game season in the top 6 and 40 in the bottom 8. A 7-7 split wouldn't work for number of matchdays and not all being able to finish the season on the same day, no split would equal a 52 match league season.

[Mr White]

That's a pretty important aspect of his proposal that seems to be ommitted. :greengrin

Play each other 2, 3 or 4 times a season? Does it incorporate a split? What are the promotion/relegation criteria?

At the moment he's getting paper space for thowing a few numbers around, which seems ridiculous.



I thought that their current membership to the SFL prevented them from having an actual say/vote on any proposals? All they can do is throw about some idea's, exactly the same as me, you and anyone remotely interested in expressing an opinion?
yup that's what he's doing. I don't think it sits well with their superiority complex to be left out of things.

[CentreLine]

In fairness a 14 team league top league with a 6/8 split could work I reckon. What I would take issue with is greens motivation for bringing it up now, just days after reiterating a desire to leave Scottish football. They're worried about being left out of the discussion is the only explanation I can see.

Yes, you are absolutely right it does have merit and if I was not suffering from an overdose of The Rangers superiority complex I might give it some more thought. But the powers that be had the chance to kick it about over a year ago and seem to have dismissed it. I think JT has to move on.

[Treadstone]

In fairness a 14 team league top league with a 6/8 split could work I reckon. What I would take issue with is greens motivation for bringing it up now, just days after reiterating a desire to leave Scottish football. They're worried about being left out of the discussion is the only explanation I can see.


Heard Traynor talking about this on Central FM (43 mins in) . I don't think he should be driving change in Scottish Football. Two things : Doesn't this mean 'Rangers' will still be playing the same teams as this season that Chuck Green was so vehemently opposed to ? and Traynors version is a 7 and 7 split so that means having two idle Saturdays ! So in reality some midweekers early in the season and free Saturdays late in the season. Lunatics are running the asylum.

http://www.centralfm.co.uk/on-air/listen-again/sport-central/34423-the-football-phone-in-with-kenny-shiels-and-jim-traynor

[Mr White]

Heard Traynor talking about this on Central FM (43 mins in) . I don't think he should be driving change in Scottish Football. Two things : Doesn't this mean 'Rangers' will still be playing the same teams as this season that Chuck Green was so vehemently opposed to ? and Traynors version is a 7 and 7 split so that means having two idle Saturdays ! So in reality some midweekers early in the season and free Saturdays late in the season. Lunatics are running the asylum.

http://www.centralfm.co.uk/on-air/listen-again/sport-central/34423-the-football-phone-in-with-kenny-shiels-and-jim-traynor
conveniently chuck wants it to start the season after next! Personally I prefer the 12 12 18 model, I just meant the 3 leagues of 14 could have some merit- not with a 7 7 split though.

[VickMackie]

I found it hilarious when chucky talking about reconstruction when he said 'what league in the world do you win it and play the same teams the next year'.

Well chucky, every top division in football. Something The Rangers know nothing about so i can see why he's confused!

[JimBHibees]

I found it hilarious when chucky talking about reconstruction when he said 'what league in the world do you win it and play the same teams the next year'.

Well chucky, every top division in football. Something The Rangers know nothing about so i can see why he's confused!

Oh dear. He is a complete joke however no doubt our courageous media will sort him out once and for all. :rolleyes:

[ancient hibee]

I'm so disappointed with the reconstruction plans. They're are so many possibilities that could be used that are a lot better! The 3 leagues of 8 thing seems incredibly unfair as if you finish 9th on GD then you are put in the second group and your season is effectively over as far as ambitions go!

Play-offs such as in England are a much better option, you play the full fixture list meaning the teams in the play-offs are much more deserving of being there! All I really wanted was play-offs and for it to go lower than the third division giving the teams near the bottom of the third division something to play for and it makes the highland league and such a lot more appealing to players

Well I would have thought the ambition of finishing in the top 4 of 8 to ensure you remain in the top league would be enough to be going on with.At the moment teams in 9th,10th and 11th may be so far ahead of the bottom club that there is nothing to play for.The new proposal would make every game important.

[tamig]

Im willing to give just about anything a go thats different from the current set up.

[ballengeich]

conveniently chuck wants it to start the season after next! Personally I prefer the 12 12 18 model, I just meant the 3 leagues of 14 could have some merit- not with a 7 7 split though.

I have some sympathy for the idea that any change should have a season's notification so that teams know what they're playing for. It's not just Green that's saying this, and a season's delay in restructuring won't lead to Rangers arriving in the top league any sooner.

Possibly the rush is because both the SPL and SFL league sponsorship end this season so they want a single league organisation and an agreed structure to present to any possible new sponsor.

[Spike Mandela]

I have some sympathy for the idea that any change should have a season's notification so that teams know what they're playing for. It's not just Green that's saying this, and a season's delay in restructuring won't lead to Rangers arriving in the top league any sooner.

Possibly the rush is because both the SPL and SFL league sponsorship end this season so they want a single league organisation and an agreed structure to present to any possible new sponsor.

This point is ridiculous. No matter if it is this season or next teams will still be playing for a title knowing that even if they win it restructuring will render promotion meaningless. These things happen by the very nature of restructuring.

Charles green is moaning for moanings sake and to keep alive his hopes of Rangers being fast tracked as I suspect he was initially promised in darkened, smoke filled rooms many months ago.

[ballengeich]

This point is ridiculous. No matter if it is this season or next teams will still be playing for a title knowing that even if they win it restructuring will render promotion meaningless. These things happen by the very nature of restructuring.

Charles green is moaning for moanings sake and to keep alive his hopes of Rangers being fast tracked as I suspect he was initially promised in darkened, smoke filled rooms many months ago.

I agree with your second paragraph. However, I'd like to see division 3 teams having something to play for in a revised structure provided it's set in place before the season starts. If the reconstruction is delayed a year, why not allow the winners of next season's division 3 into a play off against some division 2 teams to decide the final second tier place in the revised leagues? It would make good money for the clubs involved, it would prevent next season's division 3 from being meaningless, and because The Rangers wouldn't get any benefit from the plan it would get right up their noses:greengrin

[lucky]

The restructuring is not just about the size of the leagues. The key parts is on one body governing the League and a fairer distribution of what money there is. Unfortunately there is not enough cash to spread amongst a 18 team top league. The new proposals are not utopia but its got to be worth trying. As for The Rangers, its SFA to do with them as they are associated members and don't have a vote.

[Bill Milne]

The 14 team top league was put forward by Martin Bain when he was still a Current Bun. Every team would play each other and split after a home/away game. The league would then split on a 6/8 basis and all tema would play home/away again. The advantage would lie in all teams retaining their earned points so the bottom team would not secure an unfair advantage in wiping out existing positions. A playoff round could be incorporated for the 2nd bottom club and 2nd, 3rd and 4th in 1st Divisision. Seems better than the guff put forward by Doncaster, Regan and Longmuir IMHO.

[Geo_1875]

Sorry, just can't see the logic behind a 14 team league with a 6/8 split and playoffs. Howthe hell can you plan a season where you don't know how many games you'll be playing? Get 18 teams and play home and away. It works in other countries, why not here?

[Mr White]

Sorry, just can't see the logic behind a 14 team league with a 6/8 split and playoffs. Howthe hell can you plan a season where you don't know how many games you'll be playing? Get 18 teams and play home and away. It works in other countries, why not here?
I know what you're saying but many countries operate play-offs which create the same uncertainty about the number of games too, good cup runs with replays can mean up to an extra 13 games per season. I don't see a difference of 4 games after the split being that different- you plan once you know which side of the split you'll be on.

[hibeenicol]

Was having a wee think on the train up from London on how we could change the leagues and something that nobody has come up with yet. Well here's what I came up with.

7 leagues of 6 teams seeded and unseeded play each other home and away, at the end of the leagues the top 2 teams of each league go into the Premier, middle 2 teams in the Championship and the bottom 2 into the 1st Div creating 3 leagues of 14 teams.

Each team then play each other home and away in them leagues, playing 26 games. So every team will play 36 games in total 18 home and 18 away.
Only problem I see with this is how to reward the teams in the Championship and 1st Division for finishing higher up the tables as there would be no promotion or relegation they would however get a big shiny trophy, and more money.

What you all think? it was a long journey :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

what price is the drink on the trains these days?

[blackpoolhibs]

what price is the drink on the trains these days?

£2.50 a can, much cheaper to take your own. :greengrin

[hibeenicol]

what price is the drink on the trains these days?

No drink was consumed, sober as a judge :cheers:

[StevieC]

No drink was consumed, sober as a judge :cheers:

Which makes it even worse. :wink:

[dangermouse]

Was having a wee think on the train up from London on how we could change the leagues and something that nobody has come up with yet. Well here's what I came up with.

7 leagues of 6 teams seeded and unseeded play each other home and away, at the end of the leagues the top 2 teams of each league go into the Premier, middle 2 teams in the Championship and the bottom 2 into the 1st Div creating 3 leagues of 14 teams.

Each team then play each other home and away in them leagues, playing 26 games. So every team will play 36 games in total 18 home and 18 away.
Only problem I see with this is how to reward the teams in the Championship and 1st Division for finishing higher up the tables as there would be no promotion or relegation they would however get a big shiny trophy, and more money.

What you all think? it was a long journey :greengrin

I'm assuming the seeding would be based on where you finished at the end of the season? I'd add promotion and relegation in there (including into the pyramid system) so that the Championship winning team would be seeded 14th for the following season and bottom of the SPL would be seeded 15th etc. When you started the 3 leagues of 14 I assume you would start at 0 points otherwise some teams will have an unfair advantage.

[hibeenicol]

Yeah the seeding would have to be done on where you finished the previous season. And there would have to be a relegation from the 1st division into a lower pyramid system so teams in the 1st have to win to stay up.

All teams after the group stages would start off on 0 points.
I still think it's a good idea and would create some really good competive games at the start of the season to determine what league your league your in and at the end if your in the premier to get into europe.

Every team would have a chance to play in the premier league every season. Also only 26 games to win the league I'm sure Hibs could manage that :thumbsup:

[PatHead]

Looks like Mr Doncaster has been lying to us again. Not all the clubs are in agreement as he claimed. Think he went to the Charles Green school of the truth. Say it loud enough and often enough and it becomes a fact. What will it take to sack him?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21047345

[Saorsa]

Looks like Mr Doncaster has been lying to us again. Not all the clubs are in agreement as he claimed. Think he went to the Charles Green school of the truth. Say it loud enough and often enough and it becomes a fact. What will it take to sack him?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21047345**** couldnae lie straight in bed.

every time I see that imbecilic grin on his puss I want tae smash him, ****in' prick.

[Gatecrasher]

Looks like Mr Doncaster has been lying to us again. Not all the clubs are in agreement as he claimed. Think he went to the Charles Green school of the truth. Say it loud enough and often enough and it becomes a fact. What will it take to sack him?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21047345
Doncaster and Regan need to go, they have no credibility left (not that they had much to start with).

[jdships]

Looks like Mr Doncaster has been lying to us again. Not all the clubs are in agreement as he claimed. Think he went to the Charles Green school of the truth. Say it loud enough and often enough and it becomes a fact. What will it take to sack him?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21047345

Absolutely correct !! :agree::thumbsup:
Three things to consider here.
1 Has Doncaster been less than honest with the club Chairmen and now they are looking at the small print they don't like it ?
2. How much ' research' was done by Doncaster before issuing the statement that clubs were in agreement ?
3. If as appears the clubs are now not too happy where do we go from here ?
Is it back to the drawing board ?

Another thought has Green been 'phoning around' to gain support ?

Whatever it is the old saying comes to mind

Bull****: This is the the art of making the idiotic sound sensible.

[Shaggy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21232215

leauge of 12 ... complete pash ....this is the start of the next failure,

is this popular with you guys

[Saorsa]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21232215

leauge of 12 ... complete pash ....this is the start of the next failure,

is this popular with you guysThread HERE (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?254102-League-Reconstruction-Next-Season-(merged)&highlight=league+reconstruction) with two thirds against.

My personal opinion is that it's a pile of http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies%202/turd4.gif

[Gatecrasher]

I see the SPL approved this yesterday and now its the SFL clubs to meet up. hope they see more sense than the SPL lot.

[gogs_t]

I see the SPL approved this yesterday and now its the SFL clubs to meet up. hope they see more sense than the SPL lot.

Not totally true. Interesting comments from Stewart Gilmour

http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=19758

[Saorsa]

I see the SPL approved this yesterday and now its the SFL clubs to meet up. hope they see more sense than the SPL lot.Hopefully the winnae be railroaded by dungcaster & Co. The SFL clubs did well with the issue involving the Ex Glesgae club, hopefully they will do well here too.

[Gatecrasher]

Not totally true. Interesting comments from Stewart Gilmour

http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=19758

ok not quite, but it looks like their going to.

[Saorsa]

Not totally true. Interesting comments from Stewart Gilmour

http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=19758Duncaster spouting forth pish and lies again? What a surprise, not. He did that efter the last meeting too saying everybody was absolutely behind it. How the **** is that prick still involved with the game in this country. IMO for the game tae move on it must start with the people at the top with likes of him, regan and ogilvie out the door for starts, these people will never be trusted by the fans. How the **** they are still allowed tae be involved efter their part in the Ex glesgae club fiasco is a ****in' joke. The way they ran Scottish fitba down without the Ex Glesgae club being involved was nothing short of disgraceful, it should have been armageddon for them.

[jacomo]

**** couldnae lie straight in bed.

every time I see that imbecilic grin on his puss I want tae smash him, ****in' prick.


Doncaster and Regan need to go, they have no credibility left (not that they had much to start with).

:agree: :agree:

Can't believe these two incompetents are still in post. I am sure Petrie hired at least one of them, although with his record on managerial appointments we perhaps shouldn't be surprised.

The new 12 12 18 proposal has its attractions but its major problem is that it's impossible to explain how it works in a single sentence. This complexity has huge drawbacks for fans, media and potential sponsors, all of whom want something that is easy and intuitive for people to understand.

I am not surprised individual clubs have reservations... I am not wholly against the new plan but more work required I think.

[MB62]

If this proposal does go through, will it mean clubs having to sell season tickets twice a season?

Fans will be asked to buy tickets for the first 22 games but how you can you ask them/us to buy tickets for the rest of it when we wont know what league or what teams were are playing against in the last 14?

Don't like this at all.

[JCHibby]

Look at the Raith / Celtic Game yesterday, was great to see a full stadium in for a Scottish Match being on TV.

Both fans turned out in decent numbers and created a good atmosphere, most knowing that Celtic would win.

My point here being this is what it COULD be like if you adopted a 16/18 team league. It looks miles better for Scottish football, would probbaly encourage more sponsorship from companies if they see full stadiums and would give fans in the SPL what they want, two game a year against teams.

Surely Regan / Doncaster must have looked at this over the weekend.

[Saorsa]

Look at the Raith / Celtic Game yesterday, was great to see a full stadium in for a Scottish Match being on TV.

Both fans turned out in decent numbers and created a good atmosphere, most knowing that Celtic would win.

My point here being this is what it COULD be like if you adopted a 16/18 team league. It looks miles better for Scottish football, would probbaly encourage more sponsorship from companies if they see full stadiums and would give fans in the SPL what they want, two game a year against teams.

Surely Regan / Doncaster must have looked at this over the weekend.Conduct a survey, ignore the results :agree: like they give a **** what the fans want.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I'm sorry, but that is jumping to conclusions based on very flimsy evidence (aka confirmation bias). It was the first time that Raith have played Celtic in donkeys years, so there is a major novelty factor there. If you had an 18 team league they would be playing each other most years, depending on Raith's ability to stay in an expanded top flight. Also thrown into the mix a fair dosage of nostalgia from the Raith point of view because of their League Cup win against Celtic in 94/95.

[JustSimplyHibs]

Look at the Raith / Celtic Game yesterday, was great to see a full stadium in for a Scottish Match being on TV.

Both fans turned out in decent numbers and created a good atmosphere, most knowing that Celtic would win.

My point here being this is what it COULD be like if you adopted a 16/18 team league. It looks miles better for Scottish football, would probbaly encourage more sponsorship from companies if they see full stadiums and would give fans in the SPL what they want, two game a year against teams.

Surely Regan / Doncaster must have looked at this over the weekend.

No chance did they look at that game and think!!!...the mere thought of those guys thinking sends shivers down my spine.

There is no way as well that these guys are thinking of Scottish football, they are like the high earners, politicians and councilers of this world. 'Out to make a buck for themselves via wages, first class travel and spooning money from expenses'.

I think we are getting it right at grassroots with the player development (although some parents and coaches need to look at themselves and ask 'is it my game or the bairns game?', although i would like to see the transition from 7s to 11s to be looked at, with 9s as being the way forward for age groups 11s-13s thereafter it would be competitive 11s from 14s

As for the league, there are far too many teams in top flight football in Scotland. I would like it reduced from 42 to 36 with two leagues of 18. A tier system for promotion to top flight. The tier system would see top flight clubs using reserve teams in the top section of the tier (if they want too) yet they are not allowed to be promoted should they finish top (a bit like Spain).

Going one further, i would like to see the U20s league remain as they are, however opening the door to youth clubs that willing to travel the length and breadth of the country to compete within a U20s/U19s (their cost)...teams such as Dunipace, Hutchie, Tynie...if you have a tier system we cannot forget the young age groups leagues, they must be given the same opportunity as the clubs involved in the top-flight tier system.

[EuanH78]

No chance did they look at that game and think!!!...the mere thought of those guys thinking sends shivers down my spine.

There is no way as well that these guys are thinking of Scottish football, they are like the high earners, politicians and councilers of this world. 'Out to make a buck for themselves via wages, first class travel and spooning money from expenses'.

I think we are getting it right at grassroots with the player development (although some parents and coaches need to look at themselves and ask 'is it my game or the bairns game?', although i would like to see the transition from 7s to 11s to be looked at, with 9s as being the way forward for age groups 11s-13s thereafter it would be competitive 11s from 14s

As for the league, there are far too many teams in top flight football in Scotland. I would like it reduced from 42 to 36 with two leagues of 18. A tier system for promotion to top flight. The tier system would see top flight clubs using reserve teams in the top section of the tier (if they want too) yet they are not allowed to be promoted should they finish top (a bit like Spain).

Going one further, i would like to see the U20s league remain as they are, however opening the door to youth clubs that willing to travel the length and breadth of the country to compete within a U20s/U19s (their cost)...teams such as Dunipace, Hutchie, Tynie...if you have a tier system we cannot forget the young age groups leagues, they must be given the same opportunity as the clubs involved in the top-flight tier system.

Far too sensible and long sighted to ever be considered. FWIW I support your vision 100%. :top marks

[JimBHibees]

No chance did they look at that game and think!!!...the mere thought of those guys thinking sends shivers down my spine.

There is no way as well that these guys are thinking of Scottish football, they are like the high earners, politicians and councilers of this world. 'Out to make a buck for themselves via wages, first class travel and spooning money from expenses'.

I think we are getting it right at grassroots with the player development (although some parents and coaches need to look at themselves and ask 'is it my game or the bairns game?', although i would like to see the transition from 7s to 11s to be looked at, with 9s as being the way forward for age groups 11s-13s thereafter it would be competitive 11s from 14s

As for the league, there are far too many teams in top flight football in Scotland. I would like it reduced from 42 to 36 with two leagues of 18. A tier system for promotion to top flight. The tier system would see top flight clubs using reserve teams in the top section of the tier (if they want too) yet they are not allowed to be promoted should they finish top (a bit like Spain).

Going one further, i would like to see the U20s league remain as they are, however opening the door to youth clubs that willing to travel the length and breadth of the country to compete within a U20s/U19s (their cost)...teams such as Dunipace, Hutchie, Tynie...if you have a tier system we cannot forget the young age groups leagues, they must be given the same opportunity as the clubs involved in the top-flight tier system.

Completely agree with that.

[Eyrie]

The SFL clubs have raised the prospect of a 12-12-10-10 set up rather than 12-12-18 because they would prefer to have another two teams involved than face the meaningless matches that an 18 team league will give.

[blackpoolhibs]

Doncaster saying on sportsound he thinks that will remain? :confused:

[3pm]

Surprise, surprise.

[Saorsa]

Doncaster saying on sportsound he thinks that will remain? :confused:If the people running the other non OF clubs allow that tae remain they must be ****in' mental.

[seanshow]

Surprise, surprise.

He tried to divert the others away by pointing out that most of the decisions (minor ones) do not require 11v1 vote.
..of course any proposal that is a game changer requires 11v1. (league restructuring, TV deals, finance)
This should still be in place when/if sevco return to the top flight and we are back to square one.

Surely a straight 7/5 majority should be fundamental on all aspects, and should have been the first thing they put in place when sevco were not allowed into the SPL. :confused:

[HibeeN]

11/1 is ridiculous, no matter what the decision is for. Even for the most important decisions I think 75% (9/3) should be the maximum (though 8/4 might be preferable) - anything higher than that is completely unnecessary.

[CB_NO3]

So we have changed Sweet FA.

[Big_Franck]

It's been worryingly quiet on this topic for a while.

Hopefully SPL fan power will ensure this does not remain, and that a fairer 7-5 or 8-4 system is installed. It would be a disgrace if it remains as it is, and with the huns gone we should be getting this sorted NOW.

[Gatecrasher]

hopefully he's telling porkies again, a major let down if he isn't.

[hibsmad]

Did he say why it would still be in place? Surely the other clubs have no reason to keep this vote in place.

If the 11-1 vote is still in place in time for The Rangers making it into the top league then I would almost feel like giving up with this game altogether.

[DH1875]

Why wouldn't they change it. Other than Celtic, who's voting to keep it :confused:.

[The Harp Awakes]

Why wouldn't they change it. Other than Celtic, who's voting to keep it :confused:.

Seem to recall that Aberdeen weren't in favour of changing the 11-1 voting, the last time the SPL clubs discussed it. God knows why.

Would 11-1 not be ripped up if the leagues were reconstructed as planned:dunno:

[Saorsa]

Why wouldn't they change it. Other than Celtic, who's voting to keep it :confused:.Maybe that roaster at killie will dae his real club 'THE Rongers' a favour.

[JimBHibees]

Why wouldn't they change it. Other than Celtic, who's voting to keep it :confused:.

Maybe this was the bargaining chip Celtc have used to give a supposed fairer distribution of cash in the new league reconstruction.

[Malthibby]

Has to be changed, or nothing will.
The man's detestable.

[brydekirk]

9 - 3 would be a step in the right direction.

[lucky]

But if TV money and the prize pot has been changed for the new league set up what difference does it make? Surely it's a non story

[Houchy]

If the people running the other non OF clubs allow that tae remain they must be ****in' mental.

:agree::thumbsup:
Agree 100%
Surely the chairmen realise that IF they let this happen, it could kick off again in the way it threatened to kick off if The Rangers were allowed straight back into the SPL.:agree:

[CB_NO3]

But if TV money and the prize pot has been changed for the new league set up what difference does it make? Surely it's a non story
It would be interesting to see how these new figures get distributed.

[down-the-slope]

Has to be changed, or nothing will.
The man's detestable.

:confused:

[lord bunberry]

Seem to recall that Aberdeen weren't in favour of changing the 11-1 voting, the last time the SPL clubs discussed it. God knows why.

Would 11-1 not be ripped up if the leagues were reconstructed as planned:dunno:

I think aberdeen were maybe looking a bit short term by thinking they might finish 2nd this season and get their hands on the extra money

[jdships]

So after all the posturing , meetings ,discussions etc ,etc we have gone nowhere
Are Doncaster and his like working for the good of Scottish football or just for a chosen few ?
' Lunatics running the asylum ' comes to mind'

:confused:

[LeighLoyal]

So after all the posturing , meetings ,discussions etc ,etc we have gone nowhere
Are Doncaster and his like working for the good of Scottish football or just for a chosen few ?
' Lunatics running the asylum ' comes to mind'

:confused:


Just goes to show, the huns are not as dead as we thought they were with pals like Donkeycaster making quietly sure the duopoly will be in place for their return, meanwhile Celtic can hold the fort until their old bigot cash cow is back. :furious:

[Jim44]

Does Petrie and the other lacky chairmen have any? They're not serving the needs of their clubs if they allow Lawwell and Doncaster to ride roughshod over every other club.

[wookie70]

Most of the organisations I have been a member of, clubs and unions etc, require a two thirds majority for constitutional change and a simple majority for any straightforward decisions. I can't see why football organisations would be any different. Unless of course they want to make sure any vote is merely a sham. Out of the mess that was Rangers the most important change should have been to break the cartel.

[Crossgates Hibs]

Most of the organisations I have been a member of, clubs and unions etc, require a two thirds majority for constitutional change and a simple majority for any straightforward decisions. I can't see why football organisations would be any different. Unless of course they want to make sure any vote is merely a sham. Out of the mess that was Rangers the most important change should have been to break the cartel.



My thoughts exactly this is a real chance to get a better deal for all clubs and stop the Rantic taking all the cash. I was really excited at the thought of Rantic getting all upset as the money from telly etc got divided evenly. Looks like people don't want to rock the boat too much.

[blackpoolhibs]

The 11-1 vote HAS to be changed for one main reason, Rangers and Celtic made sure any crucial vote went their way, and benefited them first and the rest last.

When The Rangers get back in the SPL, why would anything change? I cant believe the other SPL chairmen want this, surely they want more control of whats going on? :confused:

[Gatecrasher]

Doncaster Strikes again


"Last season, Hibernian's biggest home crowd of the season was a Monday night TV game, and the crowds came because it mattered - it was effectively a relegation decider against Dunfermline.


So it was nothing to do with the Cup Final ticket draw then?

[JeMeSouviens]

Seem to recall that Aberdeen weren't in favour of changing the 11-1 voting, the last time the SPL clubs discussed it. God knows why.

Would 11-1 not be ripped up if the leagues were reconstructed as planned:dunno:

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Sheepies were blocking it to make sure there was no backsliding on the NewHuns, ie. Killie etc trying to bump them up to an SPL2.

[ballengeich]

I went to see Lincoln yesterday evening. If the USA had the same voting system as the SPL it would have retained slavery.

[Sergio sledge]

I think it should be changed but, playing devils advocate, If the spl is going to become 24 teams (spl 1 & spl 2) does it absolutely need to change? I'm sure it's a % needed to vote in favour of something to vote it through, currently 11 need to vote in favour of something (91.6%), with 24 teams this figure would change to 22, thus meaning that the OF couldn't block anything on their own. We would be relying on the other 22 clubs sticking together though which would be difficult I suppose.

[LioNeilMessi]

I really don't understand. It will be a Whole new league. So with the new league being introduced, do the member clubs not have to vote on a new voting structure? Then the 11-1 would be history (along with the old SPL league) and Doncaster would have no decision on whether it stays or not.. because it's a different set up (despite the new league being exactly the same) :confused:

Or is he saying that that he thinks the majority of the clubs will vote in favour of setting up a new 11-1 vote? Which would be worrying.

[Eyrie]

I'd assume that a merged league would involve all 42 clubs in a vote, with a weighting to those in the top 12 (say 4 votes vs 2 for the middle 12 and 1 each for the bottom 18).

But that doesn't explain why this nonsense of 11-1 remains in the current SPL. It has to be changed to 9-3 or 8-4.

[doddsy]

Having bought a half season ticket this year as I had found myself virtually attending every home game anyway,
but will definitely not be back next year if teams split and start again with zero points halfway through.

I will probably give up even looking for results, I grew up in broughton road not far from easter road and I ve been following the hi bees for 35 years. so
it would be a big loss for me but that would be the end for me. what do the rest of you think?.

[Stevie Reid]

I like the new proposals.

[Andy74]

Having bought a half season ticket this year as I had found myself virtually attending every home game anyway,
but will definitely not be back next year if teams split and start again with zero points halfway through.

I will probably give up even looking for results, I grew up in broughton road not far from easter road and I ve been following the hi bees for 35 years. so
it would be a big loss for me but that would be the end for me. what do the rest of you think?.

Strange outlook. Whatever is brought in I'll be there supporting Hibs.

[Gatecrasher]

I'm not in favour of the plans either but it wouldn't put me off going, However the wierd KO times are really starting to make me think.

[Mikey]

Having bought a half season ticket this year as I had found myself virtually attending every home game anyway,
but will definitely not be back next year if teams split and start again with zero points halfway through.

I will probably give up even looking for results, I grew up in broughton road not far from easter road and I ve been following the hi bees for 35 years. so
it would be a big loss for me but that would be the end for me. what do the rest of you think?.

Wouldn't you be better finding out how it's actually going to work before turning your back on the club?

[danhibees1875]

Funnily enough I just took a break from writing a paragraph about league reconstruction for my dissertation and thought I'd pop on .net for a quick catch up on other matters. :greengrin

I don't know what will happen regarding reconstruction but I do know that I'll be a Hibs supporter in a 12-12-18 or as it currently stands or in any other set-up that is agreed upon.

As has been said, the point do not go back to 0. I believe this would only be the case for the middle grouping of 8 for obvious reasons. :agree:

[atticmonkey]

Wouldn't you be better finding out how it's actually going to work before turning your back on the club?

It will interesting to see how ANY club advertises a season ticket if these proposals go through. How will they price it considering clubs/fans won't know who they might be playing

[danhibees1875]

It will interesting to see how ANY club advertises a season ticket if these proposals go through. How will they price it considering clubs/fans won't know who they might be playing

It's not THAT different from the current set-up. :confused:

[lucky]

Why does the number of teams in a league effect whether a fan goes to a game? Hibs have never won the league in my life time and have rarely challenged for Euro places in the 30 years of me watching them.

[atticmonkey]

It's not THAT different from the current set-up. :confused:

I've never liked the current set up I don't think it gives value to season ticket holders to the extent I stopped getting one a few years back. Not all the set up to blame mind you but it certainly was a factor

[bingo70]

Yes, due to the size and dominance of the old firm (when the rangers get to the SPL) the SPL have got to try 'weird' things to make the league exciting for otherclubs fans as realistically we're never going to win it again so a conventional normal league would be even more boring.

[jgl07]

Having bought a half season ticket this year as I had found myself virtually attending every home game anyway,

but will definitely not be back next year if teams split and start again with zero points halfway through.


This will only apply to the bottom four of the top division and the top four of the lower division. They go to zero and embark on an extended promotion relegation play-off.

The remaining top-eight of the top division and the bottom eight of the lower division will keep their points after the split.

Hibs played Airdrie once in a promotion and relegation play-off. Would you have wanted both teams to retain their points then from Premier and First Division respectively?

[Andy74]

It will interesting to see how ANY club advertises a season ticket if these proposals go through. How will they price it considering clubs/fans won't know who they might be playing

Chances are Hibs will be one of the teams you will be seeing.

[bingo70]

Chances are Hibs will be one of the teams you will be seeing.

I like the proposed New set up, its not without faults though and I think season ticket promotion/sales is one area that they'll need to look at and change what we currently do.

[Jones28]

It will be interesting, but I'll wait until the proposals are implemented before I walk away from football

[lyonhibs]

People don't like the status quo. SPL proposes some pretty radical changes to the status quo. People don't like the changes. The status quo remains. People bump their gums about the SPL doing, well, SFA to improve the SPL.

And so on and so forth ad nauseum.

What's been proposed may end up being a crock o'*****, or it might make the league season decidedly more exciting, but whatever concoction they spit out it won't stop me from supporting the team I love when I can.

[Time For Heroes]

I thought this was going to be a thread about Stevie Fulton.... ;o)

[Baldy Foghorn]

Strange outlook. Whatever is brought in I'll be there supporting Hibs.

:agree::agree:

I don't like the split at present, and don't like the look of the new proposals, but in the grand scheme of things, I pay to watch Hibs, and that factor won't change for me.....

[jacomo]

Wouldn't you be better finding out how it's actually going to work before turning your back on the club?

This is the problem - the new proposals fail the 'explain the scheme in a sentence' test. Massively.

Even avid football fans are confused by them, so it won't help to attract less committed fans back. The current 'split' is bad enough.

[easty]

Hibs played Airdrie once in a promotion and relegation play-off. Would you have wanted both teams to retain their points then from Premier and First Division respectively?

That was a play-off, so not really the same thing at all, certainly not worthy of a comparison to the new ****ty system they have lined up.

[M6hibee]

Thing is ican understand someone ditching hibs if the club do something so bad that it alienates supporters. Why would someone dump hibs just cos of reconstruction that affects all clubs equally?

[blackpoolhibs]

This is the problem - the new proposals fail the 'explain the scheme in a sentence' test. Massively.

Even avid football fans are confused by them, so it won't help to attract less committed fans back. The current 'split' is bad enough.

Until we see how it pans out we need to wait, what i find strange is someone saying he'd stop because of the new formation?

We seem to get a new excuse every other week on why folk wont be going to watch Hibs?

[offshorehibby]

I have no problems with it, as long as we get a good start to the season and are in the top 8. People were crying out for 'radical change', we're getting radical change and people still aren't happy.

I know most peoples ideal situation would be the 16 team league but until somebody can come up with a way of to compensate for the loss of games and money with 16, this could be interesting.

[jgl07]

That was a play-off, so not really the same thing at all, certainly not worthy of a comparison to the new ****ty system they have lined up.

But the middle-eight post split will effectively be a promotion-relegation play-off. What other function will it have. Finish in the top-four and you will be promoted or maintain your status. Finish in the bottom four and you will be in the second tier for next season.

It at least permit four-up and four-down if the teams from the lower tier merit it. It also could be none-up none-down. It gives a great incentive for lower tier clubs to make the top-four pre-split.

It is better than the current system as each team will be guaranteed 18 home and 18 away matches. No team will have to visit another three times in the season (as Hibs did with Inverness last season).

It is not perfect but the best we are likely to get at this stage.

[Finbar]

I'm not in favour of weird reconstruction. The funny thing is this season is the closest I can ever remember the league being, I wouldn't call it exciting, but it's close. There's very little between 2nd and 11th, if it stayed that way till the last few weeks of the season it would be very interesting. You could have teams fighting relegation but still in with a chance of europe. But ironically the top 6/bottom 6 split will take away some that excitement!

A couple things need to change, the gap between Celtic and the others needs to be bridged and there needs to be more than one up one down.

If they really wanted to make it interesting they should take the top 8 at the end of the season and have play offs to decide who wins the league!

[bingo70]

I'm not in favour of weird reconstruction. The funny thing is this season is the closest I can ever remember the league being, I wouldn't call it exciting, but it's close. There's very little between 2nd and 11th, if it stayed that way till the last few weeks of the season it would be very interesting. You could have teams fighting relegation but still in with a chance of europe. But ironically the top 6/bottom 6 split will take away some that excitement!

A couple things need to change, the gap between Celtic and the others needs to be bridged and there needs to be more than one up one down.

If they really wanted to make it interesting they should take the top 8 at the end of the season and have play offs to decide who wins the league!

I think I saw it mentioned that in Europe somewhere, Georgia maybe? They've got a similar set up but after the split the results against the bottom 4 get wiped, thought that was a decent idea as its more likely to close the gap rather than increase it.

[Scouse Hibee]

Having bought a half season ticket this year as I had found myself virtually attending every home game anyway,
but will definitely not be back next year if teams split and start again with zero points halfway through.

I will probably give up even looking for results, I grew up in broughton road not far from easter road and I ve been following the hi bees for 35 years. so
it would be a big loss for me but that would be the end for me. what do the rest of you think?.


Bizarre!! How anyone who claims to have been a follower for 35 years can simply stop because of league construction is beyond me. "I will probably give up even looking for results"...............................Nonsense I don't believe a word of it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Having bought a half season ticket this year as I had found myself virtually attending every home game anyway,
but will definitely not be back next year if teams split and start again with zero points halfway through.

I will probably give up even looking for results, I grew up in broughton road not far from easter road and I ve been following the hi bees for 35 years. so
it would be a big loss for me but that would be the end for me. what do the rest of you think?.

What do i think, i think you are mad? I also think you have won 1st prize in the competition for excuses to no longer watch Hibs. :cup:

[VickMackie]

I love the split. It keeps a talking point and challenge for something mid table. The only meaningless games are those in the bottom 6 who aren't fighting relegation but wouldn't normally be close enough to challenge for Europe anyway. This season excepted.

I'd prefer a 14 team league with the split though.

[atticmonkey]

Chances are Hibs will be one of the teams you will be seeing.

While I understand and agree with your sentiments looking ahead will the changes bring people back (buying season tickets ) to Easter Road. A successful team will obviously help but I fear these proposals might have the opposite effect

[Waxy]

Whats happening with this?
It's a bit late in the day to be changing it for next year,with teams about to sell season tickets.
Seems the SPL will fail with the 3 leagues of 8.
Maybe we should leave it to the SFL.

[Spike Mandela]

Whats happening with this?
It's a bit late in the day to be changing it for next year,with teams about to sell season tickets.
Seems the SPL will fail with the 3 leagues of 8.
Maybe we should leave it to the SFL.

They're waiting to see which league Rangers would like to be in:rolleyes::cb

[EH6 Hibby]

Whats happening with this?
It's a bit late in the day to be changing it for next year,with teams about to sell season tickets.
Seems the SPL will fail with the 3 leagues of 8.
Maybe we should leave it to the SFL.

There's a note on the season ticket leaflets saying in the event of league reconstruction they will contact season ticket holders.

[danhibees1875]

IMO they'll make an announcement over the summer and the new league structure will take effect for the 2014/2015 season. :agree:

I'm also not convinced that 12-12-18 has the full backing of all the SPL clubs, and assuming the 11-1 rule is still in place it might be a struggle to pass it.

[edinburghhibee]

Are we still sitting with the 11-1 voting structure or have I missed the change?

IMHO this should have been the first thing to get changed when oldco died but I've not heard anything about it in months. Anyone any idea what's going on?

[ballengeich]

If the SPL stays as it is then it's vital that the 11-1 gets changed before The Rangers are in the top division.

When details of the rules behind the proposed 12-12-18 become known we need to keep an eye on how voting will work. The Scotsman had a worrying article a week or two ago suggesting that the SPL will retain the right to veto changes which don't get an 11-1 majority from top division clubs regardless of the wishes of the lower divisions. This may be speculation since the new constitution is not yet publically available, but it needs careful attention.

[hibbysam]

If the 12-12-18 structure goes through, all 42 teams will be under the same organisation so I would presume all would have equal voting rights on all matters..

[Eyrie]

It was never changed after the demise of Huns RIP, which is ridiculous.

Various articles about the proposed 12-12-18 set up have referred to the SPL needing a 11-1 vote to approve the new structure, and I think it's Inverness who have come out against it. No word on who else would vote against it, but it would be embarrassing for the SPL's own proposal to be vetoed by its own members.

Under the new structure the votes are to be weighted according to the initial division a club is in (think it's 4, 2 and 1) but, as Ballengeigh says, that bizarre 11-1 would remain - effectively giving a new incarnation of the Ugly Sisters a veto over the other 40 clubs because any change has to be approved by each division as well as overall.

[JeMeSouviens]

It was mentioned in the recording of the Raith Rovers open meeting on reconstruction (well worth a listen if you haven't heard it). Under the new proposals the 11-1 will stay but for a much reduced number of issues. They didn't say specifically which would still require the veto.

http://www.raithrovers.info/2013/02/open_meeting.mp3

[hibee_nation]

Scottish football never ceases to amaze.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21763900

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm listening to sportsound at the minute, and this is their main subject tonight. Lots of folk saying this would finish them with Scottish football should it happen. Cant argue with that, if there is a colts league it has to be for all.

[Saorsa]

Scottish football never ceases to amaze.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21763900:bitchy:


attractive to fansReally! Has he ****in' asked them like? Another ****in' ****er in a long line of ****ers.

[Paisley Hibby]

Scottish football never ceases to amaze.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21763900

I thought Longmuir was quite sensible - until I read this. I despair. :rolleyes:

[The_Todd]

All this talk of Rangers and Celtic leaving the SPL\SFL and leaving behind 'B' teams? Is this the level of self-respect Scottish football has for itself? If they want to leave, then let them. All they do is talk down the game up here anyway, but by operating a reserve team while they swan around in some league they've dreamt up thats just Scottish football admitting it's sole purpose is to support two disgusting "pillars" of our society.

[hibee_nation]

WTF do the huns need a colts team for, their first team can't even beat Annan at ipox FFS :grr:

[Billy Whizz]

Would our under 20's not benefit from playing in the 2nd/3rd division. Hibs loan out lots of boys to teams who play at this level

[21.05.2016]

I'm listening to sportsound at the minute, and this is their main subject tonight. Lots of folk saying this would finish them with Scottish football should it happen. Cant argue with that, if there is a colts league it has to be for all.

Agree. Another slap in the face for every non- OF club.

[Saorsa]

Would our under 20's not benefit from playing in the 2nd/3rd division. Hibs loan out lots of boys to teams who play at this level:confused:

[MWHIBBIES]

More pandering to the bigot brothers.

[Billy Whizz]

:confused:

Not sure why you are so confused. We've got players in the lower leagues just now, Handling etc at Berwick last year

[Saorsa]

Not sure why you are so confused. We've got players in the lower leagues just now, Handling etc at Berwick last yearHow does having OF colt teams in those divisions benefit our players?

[Hibeesforever]

Scottish football never ceases to amaze.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21763900

That is it for me, now the letter writing and lobbying is going to have to start in earnest.
This is one of the most bias and completely anti-Scotland United articles I have seen in a long, long time.
David Longmuir looked like a man who could take Scottish Football forward but this article makes me think he is just in the pocket of the previous Old Firm.
Celtic and Rangers do have a second team....it is currently called their reserves or U20s!
Can a real football fan please counter this article and the ridiculous new 12-12-12-16 model. In my view, it is not progress.
Unfortunately, our SFA don't seem to have any opinions.

[Scottie]

Shocking display of sheer arogance again

How long has non-league and Highland league teams been waiting to be allowed into the SFL set up?

Closed shop for years but as soon as the huns go tits up then all changes to suit them

FFS they havent even got a decent 1st team

The sooner were rid of the OF the better imo.Take the paltry tv money away and maybe true supporters would come back to watch matches at realistic prices at 3pm on a saturday.

[DaveF]

What a load of utter s h i t e

[blackpoolhibs]

Not sure why you are so confused. We've got players in the lower leagues just now, Handling etc at Berwick last year

Would you like us to loan our kids to rantic colts, or just have our own colts team? Why would they be the only club having a colts team in the lower leagues?

[Dan Sarf]

How about we all have Colt teams in a separate league? And call it the SPL Reserve League?

[Saorsa]

How about we all have Colt teams in a separate league? And call it the SPL Reserve League?I wonder why somebody didn't think of that before? Oh wait a minute......

[blackpoolhibs]

How about we all have Colt teams in a separate league? And call it the SPL Reserve League?

Dont be daft, how the hell would that help rantic while hindering everyone else at the same time?

[down-the-slope]

How about we all have Colt teams in a separate league? And call it the SPL Reserve League?

:agree: beat me too it - Binned due mainly to the OF saying it was un-affordable .......needs re started asap as all teams are suffering by not being able to get reserves players match fit and progress youngsters.....

[eastterrace]

All this talk of Rangers and Celtic leaving the SPL\SFL and leaving behind 'B' teams? Is this the level of self-respect Scottish football has for itself? If they want to leave, then let them. All they do is talk down the game up here anyway, but by operating a reserve team while they swan around in some league they've dreamt up thats just Scottish football admitting it's sole purpose is to support two disgusting "pillars" of our society.

totally agree mate all non old firm fans should stick together on this , tell them to sod off to were ever they are thinking of going to.

[Alan62]

Another horrible idea from the idiots who run the game on behalf of Celtic and The Rangers. If Glasgow's ugly sisters want to go play in England, let them go. We'll reorganise football in a different way in Scotland and create a league that is interesting and entertaining in its own right.

[Ross4356]

I thought Longmuir was quite sensible - until I read this. I despair. :rolleyes:

Thought exactly the same, this is another line in the sand for me

[James70]

My own view has always been that in the unlikely event that another league were prepared to accept the bigots (presumably the English League) then a precedent would have been set.

In those circumstances Hibs and any other Scottish side with a decent support and stadium could also apply to join that league and be given the chance to try to work their way up the tables. We also could leave our U20 side behind as a token gesture. :wink:

[alan1875]

What a total farce. I'm pretty sure any team with an academy would like the option of a colt team. No denying that the fall of the reserve leagues coincided with our reduced number of youngsters coming through... This would be great for us... Oh but we're not the filth, so tough luck.

[Billy Whizz]

Would you like us to loan our kids to rantic colts, or just have our own colts team? Why would they be the only club having a colts team in the lower leagues?

I'm saying out young Hibernian team should play in the 3rd division

[The_Todd]

I'm saying out young Hibernian team should play in the 3rd division

Longmuir only proposes OF colt teams, this isn't allowed for everyone who wants one.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm saying out young Hibernian team should play in the 3rd division

Ok lets take this a bit further, i'm assuming you would like to see all clubs have colts teams in the 3rd division, is this right?

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Outrageous nonsense :confused:

[Billy Whizz]

Ok lets take this a bit further, i'm assuming you would like to see all clubs have colts teams in the 3rd division, is this right?

Why couldn't the top 4/5 teams in Scotland allow their under 20's to play in the 3rd division. I disagree that it should be limited to the Glasgow 2. I would go along and watch Hibs "B" team if they played on a different day to Hibs

[blackpoolhibs]

Why couldn't the top 4/5 teams in Scotland allow their under 20's to play in the 3rd division. I disagree that it should be limited to the Glasgow 2. I would go along and watch Hibs "B" team if they played on a different day to Hibs

Why restrict it to 4 or 5, surely everyone has the same rights? :confused:

[ronaldo7]

Picked up this quote from the comments on the bbc site, It looks like Longmuir might have let the cat out of the bag. Either that, or Chuckie has got his claws into him.

" Longmuir clearly the most capable of the three league chairmen stating that the colt teams would not be able to play in the same league as the senior squad but they are to start next season so either reconstruction is not going to happen this summer and Rangers will win promotion in the usual manner or it is going to happen and they will move up against all fans wishes".

Just noticed they are proposing 4 league set up:dummytit:

[Billy Whizz]

Why restrict it to 4 or 5, surely everyone has the same rights? :confused:

Fair comment. Everyone who wants to participate!!!

[blackpoolhibs]

Fair comment. Everyone who wants to participate!!!

Ok now we are getting somewhere, so what if the 1st division clubs want to do the same?

[Paisley Hibby]

Picked up this quote from the comments on the bbc site, It looks like Longmuir might have let the cat out of the bag. Either that, or Chuckie has got his claws into him.

" Longmuir clearly the most capable of the three league chairmen stating that the colt teams would not be able to play in the same league as the senior squad but they are to start next season so either reconstruction is not going to happen this summer and Rangers will win promotion in the usual manner or it is going to happen and they will move up against all fans wishes".

I love a conspiracy theory but sadly, under Longmuir's proposal the bottom two divsions would have 10 teams each. So next season The Rangers first team would be in the second bottom division.

[Dirkster23]

Ok now we are getting somewhere, so what if the 1st division clubs want to do the same?

How many Scottish teams could afford to run with 2 full squads?

[Paisley Hibby]

Ok now we are getting somewhere, so what if the 1st division clubs want to do the same?

And why not the second and third division clubs?

[blackpoolhibs]

How many Scottish teams could afford to run with 2 full squads?

I don't know, but i'd imagine almost all have under 20 and youth teams?

[ronaldo7]

I love a conspiracy theory but sadly, under Longmuir's proposal the bottom two divsions would have 10 teams each. So next season The Rangers first team would be in the second bottom division.

My Edit 7.47 Your post 7.50:na na:

Only Jokin:greengrin

[Malthibby]

If the OF leave thaere should be a line under that leaving. This unholy duopoly has never been weaker yet they still have folk doing their bidding.
They should have to re-locate to Carlisle, never mind keep feeder teams here.
gtf.

[carnoustiehibee]

Why not only full time teams would be allowed a colts team?

But as someone else said, why not all teams have a 2nd team and call it a reserve league:confused:

[EuanH78]

The way the people who run Scottish football pander to the OF is utterly embarrassing. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Pathetic. No doubt it will be up to the fans to sort this out again.

Think those at SPLFansUnited might have a point ( I earlier dismissed them thinking it was all sour grapes about the way Sevco got off, relatively punishment free -though guilty as charged)

[blackpoolhibs]

Why not only full time teams would be allowed a colts team?

But as someone else said, why not all teams have a 2nd team and call it a reserve league:confused:

We already have 42 clubs which is far too many now, some existing on gates of a couple of hundred. They probably get a few floating fans who normally watch a bigger club but their team is away that week.

This whole idea is so rantic can still have a presence in the Scottish game should they get their move away, yet all it would do would take more fans away from the other clubs.

I like you have no objection to a reserve league like we used to have.

[Dirkster23]

I don't know, but i'd imagine almost all have under 20 and youth teams?

If they had enough players it would be open to them to ask to take part surely?

[blackpoolhibs]

If they had enough players it would be open to them to ask to take part surely?

Thats true, but they are not being asked its only rantic who are.

[ScottB]

Given that as others have pointed out, we have too many teams as it is, wouldn't it be better for those clubs who wanted to have colt teams to instead form agreements with smaller clubs? Say we sign a deal with a second division club that they get first pick of our youth players that we want to send out on loan?

[The_Todd]

Given that as others have pointed out, we have too many teams as it is, wouldn't it be better for those clubs who wanted to have colt teams to instead form agreements with smaller clubs? Say we sign a deal with a second division club that they get first pick of our youth players that we want to send out on loan?

Because that's not the reasoning for the colt teams, the reasoning is so the Old Firm can have their cake and eat it. Leave Scottish football, but still have a fall back of playing in (and likely winning) the Scottish domestic trophies should they discover mid-table mediocrity is something their spoilt glory hunting fans can't adjust to.

[ScottB]

Because that's not the reasoning for the colt teams, the reasoning is so the Old Firm can have their cake and eat it. Leave Scottish football, but still have a fall back of playing in (and likely winning) the Scottish domestic trophies should they discover mid-table mediocrity is something their spoilt glory hunting fans can't adjust to.

They aren't going anywhere, they can day dream about that all they want. The idea in principal, if open to all and used to strengthen our set up is a good one though.

[Richibee]

Remember, David Longmuir is just a spokesman for the SFL. this must be something that the majority of SFL clubs want or it would not have been proposed. They will see it as a way of increasing revenues for all SFL clubs because The Rantic Colts will have decent attendances ad bring in sponsor & advertising cash.

[Sir David Gray]

The Sevco first team just lost to Annan Athletic at the weekend!

Why should a Sevco 'B' team be allowed to take part in a competitive league when clubs playing at a far higher level aren't being afforded the same opportunities?

[ronaldo7]

Let's say it goes ahead, and The Rangers Parent team are in the Top League with their Colts in the next division down.

The Rangers get relegated, and the Colts are only in mid table...What happens?

[Houchy]

My own view has always been that in the unlikely event that another league were prepared to accept the bigots (presumably the English League) then a precedent would have been set.

In those circumstances Hibs and any other Scottish side with a decent support and stadium could also apply to join that league and be given the chance to try to work their way up the tables. We also could leave our U20 side behind as a token gesture. :wink:

Hearts could leave behind their u21's, aka, their first team.
Absolute disgrace if this gets passed.

[neilmartinrocks]

what about spl teams and top of div 1. 18 teams home and away. u19 set up.

[fat freddy]

consider the old firm as a successful salesman at a high street store...john lewis or marks and spencer for example..he has the highest sales figures and consistantly wins salesman of the year...despite his success he is unhappy with his lot and he tells anyone who will listen, including his customers, that his products are substandard and he wants to move to a bigger store with better profit margins...he says when he moves he'll allow his wee brother to take his job so that he can continue to benefit from his connections at the store...his old customers will still pop in occasionally but most of them will travel to his new store wherever that may be.

consider the s.f.l. , s.p.l. , s.f.a. are the 'store' board of directors...their top salesman continually belittles their product, he goes to the papers most days saying how bad the products are, he actively attempts to move to new stores further afield despite having a long term contract where he is, the salesmans customers often turn up in the store and insult other customers both physically and verbally using vile language and insults based on religion and race.

in what industry other than scottish football would this board of directors actively try to help this salesman to succeed in his ambitions at the risk of alienating all of their other staff and customers?

only in scotland.:crazy:

[DH1875]

OK so where would the newco B team play? Can they play in the same league as the a team.

[ballengeich]

Remember, David Longmuir is just a spokesman for the SFL. this must be something that the majority of SFL clubs want or it would not have been proposed. They will see it as a way of increasing revenues for all SFL clubs because The Rantic Colts will have decent attendances ad bring in sponsor & advertising cash.

I don't think it comes from any SFL majority decision as the clubs haven't met yet to come to an opinion on the proposed changes. I think you'll find a lot of opposition from the SFL clubs. Rumour is that Longmuir is a Rangers supporter, so it's quite possible he's put this forward off his own bat, just the same as statements by Doncaster or Ogilvie aren't always the opinions of the majority of SPL clubs.

[tamig]

OK so where would the newco B team play? Can they play in the same league as the a team.

I take it you never read the story? It tells you there.

[weecounty hibby]

Remember, David Longmuir is just a spokesman for the SFL. this must be something that the majority of SFL clubs want or it would not have been proposed. They will see it as a way of increasing revenues for all SFL clubs because The Rantic Colts will have decent attendances ad bring in sponsor & advertising cash.

Not so apparently. This proposal was sent by longmuir to sfl chairmen via email. His idea no doubt supported by the OF who will now claim that they have the support of one of our governing bodies to leave Scotland. Well you know what, **** off and take longmuir and the rest of the utterly pathetic bunch of sycophants who only care about the OF with you

[DH1875]

I take it you never read the story? It tells you there.

On the phone so NO since you aked.

[tamig]

On the phone so NO since you aked.

Can you no click a link on your phone like? Anyway it says they can't get promoted to the same league as the "parent" club. No probs bud.

[DH1875]

Can you no click a link on your phone like? Anyway it says they can't get promoted to the same league as the "parent" club. No probs bud.

Won't let me. Only got a galaxy mini and says I've got to many pages open even though I'm only on here.
Back on topic though, If they can't be in the seem league, what happens cause newco will be in the bottom tier again next season.

[Moon unit]

I thought Longmuir was quite sensible - until I read this. I despair. :rolleyes:

Longmuir, tell The Old Firm to get tae' and take your Colts with you! We don't need you!

[tamig]

Won't let me. Only got a galaxy mini and says I've got to many pages open even though I'm only on here.
Back on topic though, If they can't be in the seem league, what happens cause newco will be in the bottom tier again next season.

Thats the sneaky bit. This opens the door for two bottom leagues of 10. Newhun would get promoted apparently into the new third tier. Assuming they don't have a series of annans to the end of season.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

If this Longmuir sort really believes this and is not just taking a punt, then it makes his position untenable and he should do the decent thing and resign. No matter how painful it is for him and the others at the SFA and the SFL to accept, the games has moved onwards since the demise of Rangers.

[ORAC]

So the SPL would likely be a two horse race again at some point when Sevco return. Is the first division likely to be the same two horse race with their colt teams most years with promotion going to third place?

This is purely for the benefit of Sevtic dressed up as for the 'Good of Scottish football', there's that phrase again. They want to have their cake and eat it as ever.

Utter shambolic levels of football administration in this country. Run for the benefit of two teams with one team in particular that's really special.

[PatHead]

Are we still sitting with the 11-1 voting structure or have I missed the change?

IMHO this should have been the first thing to get changed when oldco died but I've not heard anything about it in months. Anyone any idea what's going on?

Aberdeen scuppered the vote by demanding everyone went along with their plans or they wouldn't play ball. Don't know what their plans were though.

[Dan Sarf]

Right, now that we all understand what "for the good of Scottish football" really means, what about...

1. Movable goalposts. The ones The Rangers are attacking slide further apart on special rails. The ones they are defending glide so close together there's hardly room for their goalie.

2. Variable team numbers. The Rangers are allowed, say, one extra player if they are a goal down. Two extra players if they are two down, etc.

3. Match officials with (secret) The Rangers affiliations. They could disallow perfectly good goals scored against them. Send off opposition players for imaginary fouls. Award penalties that never were. Play an extra ten minutes "injury time" if they still haven't scored the winner yet. Oh, wait a minute...

Any more suggestions?

[rcarter1]

Darn and Blast, the sooner Celtic and Rangers find new chums the better.... Which in the case of Rangers is nigh on impossible.

I wanted 24 team top division, play each team once, then split into three groups of 8, and play twice. Teams would play for the league and Europe, and would get bonus points for the next season depending on their final placement. Bottom three relegated. Of course non starter without the four Bigotfest matches. Why dont they have a preseason tournament against each other. For every goal they score they get to shoot one of their opponents substitutes. Would make magnificent television - everyones a winner.

[BenjiOscar]

This has really hacked me off. I'm involved with Preston Athletic and we've spent a great deal of time, effort and money in bringing our facilities up to a standard whereby we were awarded our SFA National Club Licence back in November. Along with Spartans we are the only two clubs in the East of Scotland league to hold such a Licence.

There are a number of other clubs working towards this in the east and also a fair few clubs in the Highland League would be ready to move into the SFL should the opportunity arise.

Instead of this, we have two clubs that have repeatedly stated they wish to leave Scottish football. Rather than say 'fine, go, if you can find other teams that want to play with you then you won't be missed' the SFL now want to have more representation from these two grotesque organisations. All of the little clubs like Preston, Spartans, Whitehill, Gala, Dalbeattie, Threave, Nairn, Cove, etc. who want to progress can all just get tae then I suppose.

Absolute joke.

[Jones28]

If this colt team ***** goes through then that's it. What's the point? It will be completely geared towards celtic and the rangers winning it. I actually laughed at the article when it said that "yes the league might be more competitive, but it's a poorer standard cos the top 2 teams can't give their reserves match practice". That's the gist of it anyway. I seem to remember the spl reserve league being scrapped because it was unaffordable? I hope rodders kicks up a real stink about this and says if they get one, we get one.

[ronaldo7]

I think Chuckles is working Longmuir from the back. He seems to have taken a flyer with this one.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/old-firm-colt-teams-joining-league-irresponsible-1-2833531

[Golden Bear]

I remember when Hibs had a colts team which played in the East of Scotland League. That's where I first saw Peter Marinello in a Hibernian jersey.

Just thought I'd say likesay.

:coffee:

[Jones28]

Just re-read the article and it says when Celtic and rangers leave their colt teams will be allowed to work up through the leagues? **** off Longmuor you havering, slavering, corrupt prick! What do we have to do to get rid of Celtic, rangers, Reagan, Longmuir and Doncaster?

A breakaway league is the only option. The NCSPL - the not-corrupt Scottish premier league. Rod Petrie can be in charge of the whole lot.

[Keith_M]

I'd be in favour of the Colts proposal under certain conditions.

That being that they don't have separate teams but a single team between them that play in Green and Blue and are called Rantic. Their badge has to be a Red Hand of Ulster with Crown and a four leafed shamrock and Harp in the middle. They must alternate on a weekly basis from being serenaded onto the pitch by: An Orange Flute Band playing the the soldier's song; A Republican Flute band playing the Sash.


Oh and they should have to spend the whole 15 minutes of the break listening to Andy Cameron's 'jokes'.


Should we have a poll to see how many are in favour?

[Jones28]

I'd be in favour of the Colts proposal under certain conditions.

That being that they don't have separate teams but a single team between them that play in Green and Blue and are called Rantic. Their badge has to be a Red Hand of Ulster with Crown and a four leafed shamrock and Harp in the middle. They must alternate on a weekly basis from being serenaded onto the pitch by: An Orange Flute Band playing the the soldier's song; A Republican Flute band playing the Sash.


Oh and they should have to spend the whole 15 minutes of the break listening to Andy Cameron's 'jokes'.


Should we have a poll to see how many are in favour?

It's a yes from me, but only if fans can throw rotting fruit at the rantic dugout during the game

[--------]

"Colts" teams - my, that takes me back. IIRC the Colts used to be the third-level team behind the first team and the reserves.

EVERY club had one, and there was an organised league in which they played.

Many of their players came from that celebrated football family, the Newmans, while an a lad called A N Other seemed to play for a different team every week - sometimes managing to play for three or four teams all at once, often against himself.

Another family prominent at this level were the Trialists - I remember a half-back line that played for Hibs Colts, Newman, Trialist, and A N Other. They weren't very good and none of them made the reserves, far less the first team.

This is Longmuir pandering to his first love and true bosses at Ibrox, nothing more.

I'm very glad to see the response he's got from the Falkirk and St Mirren chairmen - a Colts league WOULD be a good idea if every club that wanted to run a Colts team was allowed in.

But preferential treatment for the Uglies is the bane of the Scottish game and people like Longmuir need learn to act professionally or face being forced to declare their true allegiances before being expelled.

[ronaldo7]

Longmuir is the new Jim Farry.

[s.a.m]

Longmuir is the new Jim Farry.

Jim Farry had a silly voice and an unfortunate manner, but I think you're doing him a disservice here. I would have said that his guiding vision was about protecting Scottish football as a whole, and not allowing the agenda to be set by big clubs against the interests of the smaller ones. And he also predicted that allowing increased power to television companies was a slippery slope, which would inevitably end up with the game being damaged.

[--------]

Jim Farry had a silly voice and an unfortunate manner, but I think you're doing him a disservice here. I would have said that his guiding vision was about protecting Scottish football as a whole, and not allowing the agenda to be set by big clubs against the interests of the smaller ones. And he also predicted that allowing increased power to television companies was a slippery slope, which would inevitably end up with the game being damaged.


:agree:

Of course, he was also (allegedly) a crook who deliberately delayed registration of a certain Celtic player so he couldn't play in an OF Hatefest.

[JimBHibees]

Jim Farry had a silly voice and an unfortunate manner, but I think you're doing him a disservice here. I would have said that his guiding vision was about protecting Scottish football as a whole, and not allowing the agenda to be set by big clubs against the interests of the smaller ones. And he also predicted that allowing increased power to television companies was a slippery slope, which would inevitably end up with the game being damaged.

Yet he deliberately delayed Jorge Cadete's registration so he missed a cup game v Rangers which Rangers won. Incredible corruption and it isnt getting any better anytime soon with the latest announcement.

[ronaldo7]

Jim Farry had a silly voice and an unfortunate manner, but I think you're doing him a disservice here. I would have said that his guiding vision was about protecting Scottish football as a whole, and not allowing the agenda to be set by big clubs against the interests of the smaller ones. And he also predicted that allowing increased power to television companies was a slippery slope, which would inevitably end up with the game being damaged.

Don't think I am S.A.M

Farry run the Sfa with an iron fist but used the kid gloves when it came to Rangers(IL). Many people in the game warned of the impending doom if TV got their way, but some of his decisions on the TV front were diabolical.

Anyway was it George Cadette who wanted to play the game but somehow Farry never had the paperwork ready in time.:cb

[s.a.m]

:agree:

Of course, he was also (allegedly) a crook who deliberately delayed registration of a certain Celtic player so he couldn't play in an OF Hatefest.

I don't think there is any doubt about the registration delay, and he got sacked for it. No idea what team he supported, but to me it looked like a massive error of judgement, because of a foolish battle of wills with Fergus McCann; another man with silly voice and an unfortunate manner.

Incidentally, it's worth remembering that Fergus McCann was an important player in the 'you bunch of losers owe us [the OF] a living' school of thought, which dominates Scottish football now. I'm not sugesting that prior to that, it was an equitable Garden of Eden, but I think it was an important factor in the changes we've seen in the likes of voting rights, TV appearances and revenue distribution that we've seen since that time. So there!

[JeMeSouviens]

The New Huns (and I'm including Longmuir on the "walks like a duck" principle) are still labouring under the laughable old, tried and failed strategy that Celtc and Huns (Old or New) will somehow be allowed to just up sticks and move by invitation to a different league in another country. Never ever going to happen.

What might happen is UEFA allow a reorganisation of various European Leagues with supranational top levels. However there is no way UEFA will ever allow it if it isn't open to all clubs and doesn't have a proper promotion/relegation pyramid underneath. Lawwell at Celtc seems to have managed to get an inkling of this change.

Hibs should be at the forefront of this, imo, especially if we can get it to happen while the New Maroon Morons are still languishing in the lower leagues.

[LeighLoyal]

What is this SevCo and Celtic "colt team" pash? England don't want them! :confused: And big SevCo get played off the park by Annan and they want a wee SevCo too? :faf: Send in the clowns!

[The_Sauz]

This has really hacked me off. I'm involved with Preston Athletic and we've spent a great deal of time, effort and money in bringing our facilities up to a standard whereby we were awarded our SFA National Club Licence back in November. Along with Spartans we are the only two clubs in the East of Scotland league to hold such a Licence.

There are a number of other clubs working towards this in the east and also a fair few clubs in the Highland League would be ready to move into the SFL should the opportunity arise.

Instead of this, we have two clubs that have repeatedly stated they wish to leave Scottish football. Rather than say 'fine, go, if you can find other teams that want to play with you then you won't be missed' the SFL now want to have more representation from these two grotesque organisations. All of the little clubs like Preston, Spartans, Whitehill, Gala, Dalbeattie, Threave, Nairn, Cove, etc. who want to progress can all just get tae then I suppose.

Absolute joke.

:top marks

[The_Sauz]

I remember when Hibs had a colts team which played in the East of Scotland League. That's where I first saw Peter Marinello in a Hibernian jersey.

Just thought I'd say likesay.

:coffee:
At City park they played :wink:

[ScottB]

The New Huns (and I'm including Longmuir on the "walks like a duck" principle) are still labouring under the laughable old, tried and failed strategy that Celtc and Huns (Old or New) will somehow be allowed to just up sticks and move by invitation to a different league in another country. Never ever going to happen.

What might happen is UEFA allow a reorganisation of various European Leagues with supranational top levels. However there is no way UEFA will ever allow it if it isn't open to all clubs and doesn't have a proper promotion/relegation pyramid underneath. Lawwell at Celtc seems to have managed to get an inkling of this change.

Hibs should be at the forefront of this, imo, especially if we can get it to happen while the New Maroon Morons are still languishing in the lower leagues.

Agreed, the merger of the Russian and Ukrainian Leagues shows how UEFA see things progressing. A Balkan League is coming and presumably Baltic and Scandinavian Leagues can't be far off.

A future of regional divisions seems like a safe bet, maybe some sort of post season style Champions Showdown knock out round to find an eventual European Champion or something, trying to replicate the spectacle of the Superbowl...

But even in that situation I can't see English clubs being keen on Scottish ones turning up and squeezing them out, Rantic would be more than capable of establishing themselves in the Premiership mid table, hell even the likes of us are no smaller in terms of support than some clubs in the top league down there...

[LeighLoyal]

Never going to happen. We saw what happened in Manchester five years ago, and that's aside from the sectarian issue that England definitely does not want imported. National leagues are going persist and there's nothing Green, Desmond or anyone else can do. This colt team idea is a complete disgrace, aside from the absurdity of an SFL3 newco fielding two outfits in senior football.

[PatHead]

Good old Turnbull Hutton, the Raith chairman not mincing his words again. But who allowed this document to be released? Was he acting on his own or did some committee propose this? If so who are they and what was the logic. I must admit I didn't like the 12 12 18 proposal but having heard a bit about it it seems no worse than the current set up. Both are rotten though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21764124

[Spike Mandela]

Apart from the fact I don't agree with it I don't get the logic of the argument. If and when Sevco and Celtic ever leave the Scottish Leagues then that will free up 2 spaces in the leagues. Only then should applications from clubs including the idea of colt clubs be considered. Why admit these colt clubs before these unlikely moves take place?

[Ross4356]

Agreed, the merger of the Russian and Ukrainian Leagues shows how UEFA see things progressing. A Balkan League is coming and presumably Baltic and Scandinavian Leagues can't be far off.

A future of regional divisions seems like a safe bet, maybe some sort of post season style Champions Showdown knock out round to find an eventual European Champion or something, trying to replicate the spectacle of the Superbowl...

But even in that situation I can't see English clubs being keen on Scottish ones turning up and squeezing them out, Rantic would be more than capable of establishing themselves in the Premiership mid table, [B]hell even the likes of us are no smaller in terms of support than some clubs in the top league down there...

ER would be full if we were in the Prem and corners filled in pretty sharpish by Rod, even if costs £2,500 a seat

[StevieC]

Agreed, the merger of the Russian and Ukrainian Leagues shows how UEFA see things progressing.

I'm not convinced it is how UEFA see it. They have a duty to protect every club and I would hope they would fight against this, or at least ensure a fair distribution of wealth amongst the leagues.

Russia and Ukraine used to be merged in Soviet times, so it's only really a return to those days when Dinamo Kiev would battle it out with the Moscow teams.

[Since90+2]

The Ukraine / Russia situation is completely different to a potential merger here in Britain.

It is mutually beneficial for both the Russian's and Ukrainian's as they both have large clubs of roughly the same size but not quite enough of them to make it a top top league. A league with Spartak Moscow , Zenit , Shaktar Donetsk , Dynamo Kiev and CSKA is one with the potential to become of the top leagues in Europe with the largest TV audience. As already mentioned these clubs are also historical rivals as they used to play in the same league so its a natural merger.

The difference in size between the SPL and EPL is huge and there is absolutely no benefit to the EPL of merging with Scotland.

[The_Sauz]

I can't get my head around the proposals of 2 OF colts teams being left behind for two reasons!

1/ Rangers were the first team to pull out the old reserve league as they could not afford to keep all those players 4 years ago (first warning into Rangers financial difficulty's)
2/ Both Celtic and the Old Rangers tried to pull this stint 5/6 years ago(Atlantic League) then again 2/3 years ago when they though they would be welcomed into the English leagues! Both times they were told to GTF by the club members. Yet here we are in 2013 with the same ****, only this time it's coming from the head of the SFL?

Does Longmuir know something that nobody else knows (outside the OF) about the OF leaving Scotland, that he has to Included a Rangers & Celtic colt team in his document? They have already bypassed the lower league teams (Highland/East Of Scotland/Junior) to accommodate Servco this season, and now they want to do it again!!

[green glory]

I can't get my head around the proposals of 2 OF colts teams being left behind for two reasons!

1/ Rangers were the first team to pull out the old reserve league as they could not afford to keep all those players 4 years ago (first warning into Rangers financial difficulty's)
2/ Both Celtic and the Old Rangers tried to pull this stint 5/6 years ago(Atlantic League) then again 2/3 years ago when they though they would be welcomed into the English leagues! Both times they were told to GTF by the club members. Yet here we are in 2013 with the same ****, only this time it's coming from the head of the SFL?

Does Longmuir know something that nobody else knows (outside the OF) about the OF leaving Scotland, that he has to Included a Rangers & Celtic colt team in his document? They have already bypassed the lower league teams (Highland/East Of Scotland/Junior) to accommodate Servco this season, and now they want to do it again!!

If Newhun and Celtic want to go then **** off and close the door behind you. Take your colt team bull**** with you too.

Scottish football is constantly being torn apart to accommodate them.

The other clubs should form an alternative league and football association and not invite them.

They'd get what they want then.

[JeMeSouviens]

If Newhun and Celtic want to go then **** off and close the door behind you. Take your colt team bull**** with you too.

Scottish football is constantly being torn apart to accommodate them.

The other clubs should form an alternative league and football association and not invite them.

They'd get what they want then.

The trouble with them ****ing off is that they won't actually physically **** off. If there's one thing the Hun debacle has taught us it's that the MSM will never shut the **** up about them and that's with them being a total irrelevance in D3. Imagine what it would be like if they ever got near Man U, Chelsea etc. :rolleyes:

The rump SPL would be given absolutely zero media exposure.

Otoh, one club with Edinburgh to itself might do rather nicely if it could get to a UK premier league. :wink:

[Waxy]

If Newhun and Celtic want to go then **** off and close the door behind you. Take your colt team bull**** with you too.

Scottish football is constantly being torn apart to accommodate them.

The other clubs should form an alternative league and football association and not invite them.

They'd get what they want then.This.Very much.

[alexedwards]

Apologies if link posted already but does anyone at SPL/SFA/SFL know what they are trying to achieve - along with the news of sevco/tic colts teams it is such a poor state of affairs....

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/reconstruction-plan-scottish-football-verge-1759905

For the record in a recession season tickets will drop off significantly with this guff.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think the average non old firm football fan has had it with Doncaster and the rest of them who are running the game in Scotland. They just donr believe a word that comes from them now.

It wouldn't matter if it was the best idea ever, we just don't trust them at all, they need to go. They are running our game into the ground, and i cant see any way back with this lot in charge.

Every decision seems to be with the old firms best interest, not the game as a whole. I might be wrong, i wish i was but thats just how i feel and many many others.

I just don't believe a word they say anymore.