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VPHIBEE
03-01-2013, 09:53 PM
Although we beat Septic, does anyone think we looked good? I cant remember the last time I said "we looked really good today". Tonight against 'Them' I thought we were mediocre at best, and did not press them at all. I can't remember the last time I watched a game and thought the opposition looked worried about us. I have seen a few games where we have played really well defensively (I never thought I would hear myself say that watching us over the last few years), and Griffiths has produced a bit of magic, but I am not seeing us troubling anyone too much.

The talk for the Transfer Window is keeping our loan players. Yes, we absolutely need to do that, but we also need at least three players to come in and bolster the squad.

I keep banging on about this, but my main priority is height and presence in the midfield. A creative wide player or two may also help. I was also hoping that Kuqi was going to be a battering ram for our attack, having watched clips of him on youtube. If he is not the man, we could do with someone for that role.

Jim44
03-01-2013, 10:39 PM
Although we beat Septic, does anyone think we looked good? I cant remember the last time I said "we looked really good today". Tonight against 'Them' I thought we were mediocre at best, and did not press them at all. I can't remember the last time I watched a game and thought the opposition looked worried about us. I have seen a few games where we have played really well defensively (I never thought I would hear myself say that watching us over the last few years), and Griffiths has produced a bit of magic, but I am not seeing us troubling anyone too much.

The talk for the Transfer Window is keeping our loan players. Yes, we absolutely need to do that, but we also need at least three players to come in and bolster the squad.

I keep banging on about this, but my main priority is height and presence in the midfield. A creative wide player or two may also help. I was also hoping that Kuqi was going to be a battering ram for our attack, having watched clips of him on youtube. If he is not the man, we could do with someone for that role.


Bang on the money. If we are lucky enough to hang on to Griffiths, McGivern and Claros, I'm sure a lot of folk will be delighted. So will I. But if we are going to hang on to our position or even imrove on it, we need 2 or 3 good signings.

SkintHibby
03-01-2013, 10:45 PM
we need 2 or 3 good signings.

That is not going to happen!!!

hibbybrian
03-01-2013, 10:46 PM
Although we beat Septic, does anyone think we looked good? I cant remember the last time I said "we looked really good today".

Last time I thought we looked really good was in the defeat to Aberdeen where I thought we deserved to win and got 0 points, so I'll take a dull 0 - 0 at Tynie as a point gained :cb

bingo70
03-01-2013, 10:55 PM
I think we're turning into a decent team but we desperately lack some pace on the wings, a fast exciting winger would have made a huge difference tonight, if only to stretch the game a little.

Mikey
03-01-2013, 10:57 PM
You're not the only person to see this, but things are improving and will hopefully improve more after January's window.

We could easily be the only club out of the other 11 who strengthen.

VPHIBEE
03-01-2013, 11:03 PM
Last time I thought we looked really good was in the defeat to Aberdeen where I thought we deserved to win and got 0 points, so I'll take a dull 0 - 0 at Tynie as a point gained :cb


Are we all that shell shocked by the ***** football we have been watching for the last few years, that we get excited by winning or drawing whilst looking mediocre and lucky at best. Remember the false start we had under Yogi. Our league position looked great whilst we looked dire, until we were found out by every team in the league. Rangers overran us in the middle of the park that season and showed us up for what we were, then every other in the team did the same. Our season then crumbled, and we have never recovered.

Fenlon is doing a good job turning us around, but he needs more backing. We need a big midfielder, a wide player and a battering ram of a striker to have other teams worried about us.

it is maybe not likely, but I am keeping everything crossed we can do this. Judge Pat next Christmas if we are still not looking better.

Dinkydoo
03-01-2013, 11:03 PM
You're not the only person seeing this.

Last time I thought we looked really good in long spells was against Dundee United. However, this is major progress on the last two seasons; and if I recall correctly, progress is the only thing myself and others have been calling for in the past year.

Paddy may look out of his depth tactically but honestly, looking at our squad, can you suggest anything different that is likely to succeed in a game against Them?

lucky
03-01-2013, 11:03 PM
I think we're turning into a decent team but we desperately lack some pace on the wings, a fast exciting winger would have made a huge difference tonight, if only to stretch the game a little.

100% correct. We need some pace on the wings to help worry other teams more.

Mikey
03-01-2013, 11:05 PM
100% correct. We need some pace on the wings to help worry other teams more.

Doyle actually made that donkey McHattie look good tonight. Very disappointing.

NAE NOOKIE
03-01-2013, 11:07 PM
Forgetting the fact that we have probably nicked a few results in the last few weeks in games we could have drawn or lost, here is my take on tonights game.

We were bloody terrible .... we came out against a frankly average Yams team and played like a 3rd division team on an away cup mission at Parkhead. We were second to just about every ball all over the park and from the word go looked like we were afraid to try and take on a team who we should have been more than a match for.

Even though we lost every ball kicked up the park from our keeper or our defenders in the first half we continued to play exactly the same way in the second half. What the hell did we even bother having Leigh Griffiths on the park for if all we were going to do was lump long balls to him which he had no chance of winning.

We had no invention, no flair, barely strung two passes together and looked nowere near as fit as the Yam players .... we were frankly bloody poor and second best all over the park.

The one decent bit of play we did have ..... a great ball from Cairney to play in Doyle .... what happened? .. the dozy bugger lumped the ball 3 feet over the bar when he should at least have tested the keeper. In fact Doyle's feeble hearted attempts at making a challenge on his opponents during the game were frankly pathetic ... he really needs to grow a pair .... IMO.

To sum up .................... If this was the new Hibs with bottle then it frankly wasnt good enough ..... From what I saw there was no difference from every other Hibs team who have gone to the PBS over the last 5 years or so and shat it. We were frankly rubbish, chicken hearted ... especially in midfield .... poor in possession and second to everything.

We should have lost.

Not bloody impressed ........ !!!!!!

I have edited this post only to say that after reading it again I am clearly not articulate enough to express fully how ( insert horrible swear word ) well unerwhelmed I was by Hibs tonight .... Bottle my arze !!!

Treadstone
03-01-2013, 11:21 PM
Even though we lost every ball kicked up the park from our keeper or our defenders in the first half we continued to play exactly the same way in the second half. What the hell did we even bother having Leigh Griffiths on the park for if all we were going to do was lump long balls to him which he had no chance of winning.

This.

We won't miss Sparky if this is how we use him : isolated and chasing hoofs up the park into corners.

number9dream
03-01-2013, 11:37 PM
The team lacks creativity & pace. That is abundantly clear. Fenlon is a cautious wee chap but silky midfielders & flying wingers are hard to find on our budget.
The OP wants entertaining play but calls for a "battering ram" up front and a big guy in midfield - that sounds pretty primitive.
Fenlon's current preferred XI is basically four central defenders, four central midfielders & two forwards and we're about as rigid as a table football team.
We should only play 2 from Deegan, Taiwo & Claros unless we are away at Old Trafford!
We must nearly be at last season's points tally already, so obvious improvements have been made.
But getting a wide player to the byeline would be nice, as would support for our striker/s from the middle of the park.
Onwards and upwards for 2013...

Geo_1875
03-01-2013, 11:49 PM
Forgetting the fact that we have probably nicked a few results in the last few weeks in games we could have drawn or lost, here is my take on tonights game.

We were bloody terrible .... we came out against a frankly average Yams team and played like a 3rd division team on an away cup mission at Parkhead. We were second to just about every ball all over the park and from the word go looked like we were afraid to try and take on a team who we should have been more than a match for.

Even though we lost every ball kicked up the park from our keeper or our defenders in the first half we continued to play exactly the same way in the second half. What the hell did we even bother having Leigh Griffiths on the park for if all we were going to do was lump long balls to him which he had no chance of winning.

We had no invention, no flair, barely strung two passes together and looked nowere near as fit as the Yam players .... we were frankly bloody poor and second best all over the park.

The one decent bit of play we did have ..... a great ball from Cairney to play in Doyle .... what happened? .. the dozy bugger lumped the ball 3 feet over the bar when he should at least have tested the keeper. In fact Doyle's feeble hearted attempts at making a challenge on his opponents during the game were frankly pathetic ... he really needs to grow a pair .... IMO.

To sum up .................... If this was the new Hibs with bottle then it frankly wasnt good enough ..... From what I saw there was no difference from every other Hibs team who have gone to the PBS over the last 5 years or so and shat it. We were frankly rubbish, chicken hearted ... especially in midfield .... poor in possession and second to everything.

We should have lost.

Not bloody impressed ........ !!!!!!

I have edited this post only to say that after reading it again I am clearly not articulate enough to express fully how ( insert horrible swear word ) well unerwhelmed I was by Hibs tonight .... Bottle my arze !!!

So which nicked results are you referring to? We beat a poor Celtc side 1-0, although we could have been 3 up within 20 minutes. If you can give me any further examples I 'll decide whether the rest of your post merits further reading or can be filed under bollocks.

jabis
03-01-2013, 11:59 PM
this was the main game on sky,an embarresment for scottish football.

Biggie
03-01-2013, 11:59 PM
Forgetting the fact that we have probably nicked a few results in the last few weeks in games we could have drawn or lost, here is my take on tonights game.

We were bloody terrible .... we came out against a frankly average Yams team and played like a 3rd division team on an away cup mission at Parkhead. We were second to just about every ball all over the park and from the word go looked like we were afraid to try and take on a team who we should have been more than a match for.

Even though we lost every ball kicked up the park from our keeper or our defenders in the first half we continued to play exactly the same way in the second half. What the hell did we even bother having Leigh Griffiths on the park for if all we were going to do was lump long balls to him which he had no chance of winning.

We had no invention, no flair, barely strung two passes together and looked nowere near as fit as the Yam players .... we were frankly bloody poor and second best all over the park.

The one decent bit of play we did have ..... a great ball from Cairney to play in Doyle .... what happened? .. the dozy bugger lumped the ball 3 feet over the bar when he should at least have tested the keeper. In fact Doyle's feeble hearted attempts at making a challenge on his opponents during the game were frankly pathetic ... he really needs to grow a pair .... IMO.

To sum up .................... If this was the new Hibs with bottle then it frankly wasnt good enough ..... From what I saw there was no difference from every other Hibs team who have gone to the PBS over the last 5 years or so and shat it. We were frankly rubbish, chicken hearted ... especially in midfield .... poor in possession and second to everything.

We should have lost.

Not bloody impressed ........ !!!!!!

I have edited this post only to say that after reading it again I am clearly not articulate enough to express fully how ( insert horrible swear word ) well unerwhelmed I was by Hibs tonight .... Bottle my arze !!!

Can't disagree with any of that...why put Doyle out wide when he can't beat anyone, nor run past anyone .?.....can't believe he stayed on for the whole game...should have scored....overall thought the standard was brutal.

NAE NOOKIE
04-01-2013, 12:01 AM
So which nicked results are you referring to? We beat a poor Celtc side 1-0, although we could have been 3 up within 20 minutes. If you can give me any further examples I 'll decide whether the rest of your post merits further reading or can be filed under bollocks.

Nae bother mate ..... St Johnstone away ... we were Tom Kite and won. The Yams at ER in the cup ... we were second best and won.

Tonight I was dismayed at our reluctance to come out and match the Yams head to head .... Lovin' the result, but frankly not lovin the fact that we allowed an average Yam team to run the game..... just as well they were too rubbish to be able to take advantage of the huge amount of possession we allowed them.

Until we can take the attitude into derby matches that we can turn up and win we will never put together the type of runs the Yams have had over the last 20 odd years ... even now it seems to be that its up to Hibs to stop them from winning, rather than it being up to them trying to stop us. Tonight was a prime example.

Sir David Gray
04-01-2013, 12:19 AM
It was a poor game, I thought both sides lacked any quality and the ball was never out of the air.

Defensively we are certainly much more assured than in recent seasons against them and in Leigh Griffiths we have someone who is capable of producing a bit of magic. The problem is that he rarely got any decent service tonight. The first half consisted of punt after punt up to him and Zaliukas, as you would expect, won just about every header.

The second half was a bit better in terms of getting him involved and on the ball but not good enough. We need to be much more dominant in midfield against them. They are a poor side and I was rarely worried about them scoring tonight. The problem was that I wasn't too hopeful at any point that we would score either.

Still a point gained and it keeps our unbeaten record going against them this season.

Nailrod
04-01-2013, 12:56 AM
I sincerely hope not.

The truth of the matter is that we are utterly toothless. While Sparky was scoring goals for fun at the start of the season (11 in his first 11 games) it covered up for our serious deficiencies. Now that he has gone off the boil (2 goals in his last 10 games) these deficiencies are all too evident.

We have scored more than one goal on precisely one occasion in our last ten games (when we surrendered a two-goal lead to Motherwell at ER). That we have managed to squeeze 8 points and a cup win out of these ten games is a bit of a miracle in itself.

The Hearts team we played last night are not an 'average' side. They are an absolutely hopeless Hearts side, unarguably the worst Hearts side in a decade. To surrender possession to the tune of 68%-32% to such a woeful team is shameful. Any other side from any other of the past ten seasons would have given us another thrashing.

Without some dramatic changes, of which I see no prospect, we will struggle to hold a place in the top 6. Right now, every other team in the league bar Dundee (and Hearts) is capable of knocking in the goals. Our only saving grace is that we are at the right end of the table, and they keep doing it to each other on a very unpredictable basis.

Moon unit
04-01-2013, 01:06 AM
Forgetting the fact that we have probably nicked a few results in the last few weeks in games we could have drawn or lost, here is my take on tonights game.

We were bloody terrible .... we came out against a frankly average Yams team and played like a 3rd division team on an away cup mission at Parkhead. We were second to just about every ball all over the park and from the word go looked like we were afraid to try and take on a team who we should have been more than a match for.

Even though we lost every ball kicked up the park from our keeper or our defenders in the first half we continued to play exactly the same way in the second half. What the hell did we even bother having Leigh Griffiths on the park for if all we were going to do was lump long balls to him which he had no chance of winning.

We had no invention, no flair, barely strung two passes together and looked nowere near as fit as the Yam players .... we were frankly bloody poor and second best all over the park.

The one decent bit of play we did have ..... a great ball from Cairney to play in Doyle .... what happened? .. the dozy bugger lumped the ball 3 feet over the bar when he should at least have tested the keeper. In fact Doyle's feeble hearted attempts at making a challenge on his opponents during the game were frankly pathetic ... he really needs to grow a pair .... IMO.

To sum up .................... If this was the new Hibs with bottle then it frankly wasnt good enough ..... From what I saw there was no difference from every other Hibs team who have gone to the PBS over the last 5 years or so and shat it. We were frankly rubbish, chicken hearted ... especially in midfield .... poor in possession and second to everything.

We should have lost.

Not bloody impressed ........ !!!!!!

I have edited this post only to say that after reading it again I am clearly not articulate enough to express fully how ( insert horrible swear word ) well unerwhelmed I was by Hibs tonight .... Bottle my arze !!!
Get a grip!....was'nt actually Brazil 1970!...but I'll take a point at the Pink Wonga Dome!

JollyGreenGiant
04-01-2013, 01:10 AM
Get a grip!....was'nt actually Brazil 1970!...but I'll take a point at the Pink Wonga Dome!

Exactly!!

At no point tonight did I feel under pressure from a yam team who are still paid more (when eventually paid) than a half decent Hibs team.

We are a work in progress, so in my view that was a game we would usually have lost, so chill out and keep the faith!


GGTTH

snooky
04-01-2013, 01:11 AM
Although we beat Septic, does anyone think we looked good? I cant remember the last time I said "we looked really good today". Tonight against 'Them' I thought we were mediocre at best, and did not press them at all. I can't remember the last time I watched a game and thought the opposition looked worried about us. I have seen a few games where we have played really well defensively (I never thought I would hear myself say that watching us over the last few years), and Griffiths has produced a bit of magic, but I am not seeing us troubling anyone too much.

The talk for the Transfer Window is keeping our loan players. Yes, we absolutely need to do that, but we also need at least three players to come in and bolster the squad.

I keep banging on about this, but my main priority is height and presence in the midfield. A creative wide player or two may also help. I was also hoping that Kuqi was going to be a battering ram for our attack, having watched clips of him on youtube. If he is not the man, we could do with someone for that role.

I agree with almost all of the above posts.
We play like a boxer on the ropes hoping to land a lucky punch now and then.
Virtually no Pat McGinley style supporting runs from midfield.
We may be hard to beat but we're harder to watch.
Not the kind of tactics that I expect week in week out from HFC.

pepe
04-01-2013, 01:18 AM
Maybe Fenlons building his team from the back.

Liberal Hibby
04-01-2013, 01:26 AM
I sincerely hope not.

The truth of the matter is that we are utterly toothless. While Sparky was scoring goals for fun at the start of the season (11 in his first 11 games) it covered up for our serious deficiencies. Now that he has gone off the boil (2 goals in his last 10 games) these deficiencies are all too evident.

We have scored more than one goal on precisely one occasion in our last ten games (when we surrendered a two-goal lead to Motherwell at ER). That we have managed to squeeze 8 points and a cup win out of these ten games is a bit of a miracle in itself.

The Hearts team we played last night are not an 'average' side. They are an absolutely hopeless Hearts side, unarguably the worst Hearts side in a decade. To surrender possession to the tune of 68%-32% to such a woeful team is shameful. Any other side from any other of the past ten seasons would have given us another thrashing.

Without some dramatic changes, of which I see no prospect, we will struggle to hold a place in the top 6. Right now, every other team in the league bar Dundee (and Hearts) is capable of knocking in the goals. Our only saving grace is that we are at the right end of the table, and they keep doing it to each other on a very unpredictable basis.

There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to start - tonight wasn't pretty but it was a result - it's about time we had results over pretty. That will come - Hearts will be fileding a team of McHatties bouncing between the first and SPL (if they make it to the end of the season).

Anyone who cannot appreciate the performance of our back five tonight really doesn't understand football. Onwards and upwards,

Dinkydoo
04-01-2013, 01:36 AM
Exactly!!

At no point tonight did I feel under pressure from a yam team who are still paid more (when eventually paid) than a half decent Hibs team.

We are a work in progress, so in my view that was a game we would usually have lost, so chill out and keep the faith!


GGTTH

Sorry but:

"At no point tonight did I feel under pressure"

I wish I shared your warped sense of reality. They pummelled us (no matter how ***** they were) and we were lucky to escape with a point.

Sir David Gray
04-01-2013, 01:40 AM
Sorry but:

"At no point tonight did I feel under pressure"

I wish I shared your warped sense of reality. They pummelled us (no matter how ***** they were) and we were lucky to escape with a point.

They had most of the possession and a lot of corners but in terms of actual chances, I don't think there was much in it. Obviously they hit the bar at the end and McGivern blocked one near the line as well but we had a couple of decent chances as well.

It was a poor game between two fairly poor teams. Hearts were marginally less poor than we were but only just.

Future17
04-01-2013, 01:47 AM
You're not the only person to see this, but things are improving and will hopefully improve more after January's window.

We could easily be the only club out of the other 11 who strengthen.

Killie and St Mirren have already made signings, albeit they may lose players.

Dinkydoo
04-01-2013, 01:53 AM
They had most of the possession and a lot of corners but in terms of actual chances, I don't think there was much in it. Obviously they hit the bar at the end and McGivern blocked one near the line as well but we had a couple of decent chances as well.

It was a poor game between two fairly poor teams. Hearts were marginally less poor than we were but only just.

It was a poor game but they rose to the occasion, whilst we (again) didn't.

They generally pressed us all game which resulted in them having the most possession, corners, free kicks and goal scoring opportunities (including one which hit off the bar - that my eyes were closed for).

They weren't excellent, but we didn't show up - yet again - which is what I'm disappointed about.

Liberal Hibby
04-01-2013, 02:09 AM
It was a poor game but they rose to the occasion, whilst we (again) didn't.

They generally pressed us all game which resulted in them having the most possession, corners, free kicks and goal scoring opportunities (including one which hit off the bar - that my eyes were closed for).

They weren't excellent, but we didn't show up - yet again - which is what I'm disappointed about.

Rubbish - for one we rose to the occasion. They were at home, in the last outing of their unaffordable team with 13,500 home fans cheering them on. In a ground we haven't won at since 1999 (or whenever). Yet Hibs fans still attack the performance of the players and tactics of the management.

It was clear we never set out to dominate possession or territory or play pretty football, but repel all boarders and nick a goal like we did last week against the champions. It's legitimate to disagree with the tactics - but not the result. Fenlon set them out to do that and they delivered - unlike the countless occasions where we've tried to be more expansive and left Tynie without a result.

Nailrod
04-01-2013, 02:27 AM
There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to start...Well feel free to have a try.

I said we are toothless - do you dispute that?
I said that Sparky's goals earlier in the season covered up some serious deficiencies - do you dispute that?
I provided some evidence based on the last ten games - do you dispute that?
I pointed out that we were outplayed by an embarrassing margin last night by the worst Hearts team in a decade - do you dispute that?

...tonight wasn't pretty but it was a result - it's about time we had results over pretty... Are you seriously suggesting that Hibs have been playing 'pretty' football while failing to get results over the last five seasons?

That will come...I'm delighted to hear it. Any chance you might explain to me where it's going to come from? Because my concern is that while you might get the odd result while playing poorly, over time you won't. As is kind of borne out by the results over the last ten games. We certainly haven't been 'playing pretty' - something from which I guess you derive great satisfaction. But hey. In actual fact, we haven't 'got results' either. In fact the only team that has lost more games than us is anchored-to-the-bottom-of-the-table Dundee.

Hearts will be fielding a team of McHatties...More good news. By then we might perhaps aspire to achieving something resembling parity with them, rather than treating them as if they were Barcelona, and lumping the ball up the field in the hope that it might bounce off one of their defender's knees and go into the goal.

Anyone who cannot appreciate the performance of our back five tonight really doesn't understand football... I understand enough about football to know that if your front five see none of the ball then your back five will see a lot of it.

Nailrod
04-01-2013, 02:37 AM
Fenlon set them out to do that and they delivered - unlike the countless occasions where we've tried to be more expansive and left Tynie without a result.Could you oblige me by pointing to one single occasion in the last five years when you consider that we have gone to Tynecastle and 'played expansively', and then come home without a point? Since there appear to have been 'countless' occasions when we have tried this tactic it shouldn't be too hard to come up with one example.

scottyc1875
04-01-2013, 02:55 AM
So tonight we didn't play like we owned PBS but what we did do is what they have done for years! Do nothing and take everything! For years these muppets have been stealing a draw, stealing a win,well tonight we were that ***** that took that point and its no wins in three for the big team! GBTH!

Liberal Hibby
04-01-2013, 03:05 AM
Well feel free to have a try.

I said we are toothless - do you dispute that?
I said that Sparky's goals earlier in the season covered up some serious deficiencies - do you dispute that?
I provided some evidence based on the last ten games - do you dispute that?
I pointed out that we were outplayed by an embarrassing margin last night by the worst Hearts team in a decade - do you dispute that?
Are you seriously suggesting that Hibs have been playing 'pretty' football while failing to get results over the last five seasons?
I'm delighted to hear it. Any chance you might explain to me where it's going to come from? Because my concern is that while you might get the odd result while playing poorly, over time you won't. As is kind of borne out by the results over the last ten games. We certainly haven't been 'playing pretty' - something from which I guess you derive great satisfaction. But hey. In actual fact, we haven't 'got results' either. In fact the only team that has lost more games than us is anchored-to-the-bottom-of-the-table Dundee.
More good news. By then we might perhaps aspire to achieving something resembling parity with them, rather than treating them as if they were Barcelona, and lumping the ball up the field in the hope that it might bounce off one of their defender's knees and go into the goal.
I understand enough about football to know that if your front five see none of the ball then your back five will see a lot of it.

I don't think Hibs played poorly tonight and Fenlon set them up to stop Hearts. They did their job and could have sneaked the goal that was part of the game plan. I don't think Hearts were capable of getting an equaliser.

And being old enough to remember years of our domination of these games - tonight's effort is a crucial part of reestablishing that dominance.

Nailrod
04-01-2013, 03:16 AM
So tonight we didn't play like we owned PBS but what we did do is what they have done for years! Do nothing and take everything! For years these muppets have been stealing a draw, stealing a win, well tonight we were that ***** that took that point and its no wins in three for the big team! GBTH!Sorry Scotty, but you seem to be inhabiting the same parallel universe as Liberal Hibby. In the last ten years, Hearts have thrashed us on more occasions than I ever want to remember.

I'm not saying it hasn't happened once, but I cannot remember any game in the last five years where we comprehensively outplayed them, and they took the points. To claim that 'for years' they have been 'stealing a draw, stealing a win' is just nonsense. The truth is that if that description could be applied to either club it is certainly not Hearts.

Even this season, when they have been, quite frankly, rubbish, and we are, as you have pointed out, unbeaten, the truth is that they have comprehensively dominated us. In terms of the stats that tell you who is actually bossing the game - possession and corners - the BBC have it 58-42 Hearts in terms of possession, and 26-10 Hearts in terms of corners. I appreciate that stats can be misleading, but not over three full games when the gap is as big as that.

It seems to me that no matter how weak they are, we will somehow contrive to hand them the initiative by being even weaker. It appears that there is still some kind of 'fear factor' operating when we play Hearts, and we need to get to the bottom of it and get rid of it.

scottyc1875
04-01-2013, 03:33 AM
Nailrod you don't seem to be coming from my way of thinking! For years I have had to put up with s**te performances from the team however what I'm trying to get across here is that there has been many a game a draw has continued there dominance and they have celebrated that 90th min equaliser like it was the winning goal! All I am saying is " Isn't it nice to play not so good but still be the happier of the two teams?" Festers post match interview confirms my thoughts! GBTH.

Nailrod
04-01-2013, 03:55 AM
I don't think Hibs played poorly tonight and Fenlon set them up to stop Hearts. They did their job and could have sneaked the goal that was part of the game plan... In other words, as I put it to Scotty - no matter how weak Hearts are, we will seek to hand them the initiative by being even weaker.

Lucius Apuleius
04-01-2013, 07:27 AM
Nice to see some of you guys back after a couple of weeks. ;-)

The Modfather
04-01-2013, 08:22 AM
We were set up not to lose, at no point did Fenlon show any ambition to win the game. Fair enough, but for £32, personally, I expect some ambition. Especially against a poor Hearts side.

That was as much of a 4-5-1 as I've ever seen. No chance if it being an interchangeable 4-5-1/4-3-3. I didn't agree with playing 3 DM's, but surely at least one of them should have been given the job of getting close to Griffiths. The tactics and subs (like for like) didn't change once last night.

Not a game I'll ever remember or performance I'll ever remember. I appreciate the defensive side of last night, but for £32 I expect a lot more. I.E a bit of ambition and intent.

khib70
04-01-2013, 08:52 AM
Well feel free to have a try.

I said we are toothless - do you dispute that?
I said that Sparky's goals earlier in the season covered up some serious deficiencies - do you dispute that?
I provided some evidence based on the last ten games - do you dispute that?
I pointed out that we were outplayed by an embarrassing margin last night by the worst Hearts team in a decade - do you dispute that?
Are you seriously suggesting that Hibs have been playing 'pretty' football while failing to get results over the last five seasons?
I'm delighted to hear it. Any chance you might explain to me where it's going to come from? Because my concern is that while you might get the odd result while playing poorly, over time you won't. As is kind of borne out by the results over the last ten games. We certainly haven't been 'playing pretty' - something from which I guess you derive great satisfaction. But hey. In actual fact, we haven't 'got results' either. In fact the only team that has lost more games than us is anchored-to-the-bottom-of-the-table Dundee.
More good news. By then we might perhaps aspire to achieving something resembling parity with them, rather than treating them as if they were Barcelona, and lumping the ball up the field in the hope that it might bounce off one of their defender's knees and go into the goal.
I understand enough about football to know that if your front five see none of the ball then your back five will see a lot of it.
Nail (rod) on head

Shapeless, eye-bleeding hoofball. But hey - work in progress, better than last year (cont p97)

Part/Time Supporter
04-01-2013, 08:59 AM
Well feel free to have a try.

I said we are toothless - do you dispute that?

I said that Sparky's goals earlier in the season covered up some serious deficiencies - do you dispute that?

I provided some evidence based on the last ten games - do you dispute that?

I pointed out that we were outplayed by an embarrassing margin last night by the worst Hearts team in a decade - do you dispute that?

Are you seriously suggesting that Hibs have been playing 'pretty' football while failing to get results over the last five seasons?



1. You're talking as if Griffiths' goals have come out of thin air, like some sort of accident. Presumably there must have been some sort of play by Hibs to provide the opportunities for him to score those goals.

2. For most of the last 10 games, Hibs have had serious injury problems in defensive areas. Those injuries have cleared up in the last couple of games and the results have improved.

3. Yes. If it was such an "embarrassing margin", why didn't Hearts score? Why did Hibs have (by common consent) the better chances?

Thecat23
04-01-2013, 09:08 AM
I have to be honest here and I'll prob get stick but for me Fenlon got it all wrong. Hearts had a very poor back four last night and a manager with any tactical awareness would have set out his team to batter that back four. I thought Hibs were poor and it was the most negative set of tactics I've seen since Harry Potters days for Scotland. At times it looked like we were playing a 9-0-1. folk saying it's a great point for us. really? I'd say it's two points dropped because that was a poor Hearts team and if we had some bottle to just try and have a go we would have won that game. We still seem to have this fear factor when it comes to Hearts. Not being funny but FFS they are honking, so it's about time we went out and battered them from the off and at least try and be positive. So for me last night was a major disappointment. Pat next time at ER please set the team out to win and not just to not lose the game.

3pm
04-01-2013, 09:11 AM
You may get a bit stick TC23 but I agree with you.

BarneyK
04-01-2013, 09:17 AM
I have to be honest here and I'll prob get stick but for me Fenlon got it all wrong. Hearts had a very poor back four last night and a manager with any tactical awareness would have set out his team to batter that back four. I thought Hibs were poor and it was the most negative set of tactics I've seen since Harry Potters days for Scotland. At times it looked like we were playing a 9-0-1. folk saying it's a great point for us. really? I'd say it's two points dropped because that was a poor Hearts team and if we had some bottle to just try and have a go we would have won that game. We still seem to have this fear factor when it comes to Hearts. Not being funny but FFS they are honking, so it's about time we went out and battered them from the off and at least try and be positive. So for me last night was a major disappointment. Pat next time at ER please set the team out to win and not just to not lose the game.

Agree with the gripe about how we approached the game but not so much about how bad their team is. They set out an inexperienced back 4 certainly and it's a sin that we didn't trouble it more. At the end of the day though, if we are on our game 100% then chances are we win that match. Sadly though, and all too predictably, we weren't, and the players need to look at themselves for that.

Part/Time Supporter
04-01-2013, 09:17 AM
I have to be honest here and I'll prob get stick but for me Fenlon got it all wrong. Hearts had a very poor back four last night and a manager with any tactical awareness would have set out his team to batter that back four. I thought Hibs were poor and it was the most negative set of tactics I've seen since Harry Potters days for Scotland. At times it looked like we were playing a 9-0-1. folk saying it's a great point for us. really? I'd say it's two points dropped because that was a poor Hearts team and if we had some bottle to just try and have a go we would have won that game. We still seem to have this fear factor when it comes to Hearts. Not being funny but FFS they are honking, so it's about time we went out and battered them from the off and at least try and be positive. So for me last night was a major disappointment. Pat next time at ER please set the team out to win and not just to not lose the game.

Okay then, what team and tactics should he have picked?

Nailrod
04-01-2013, 09:18 AM
1. You're talking as if Griffiths' goals have come out of thin air, like some sort of accident. Presumably there must have been some sort of play by Hibs to provide the opportunities for him to score those goals. I still think our results were flattering to deceive.


2. For most of the last 10 games, Hibs have had serious injury problems in defensive areas. Those injuries have cleared up in the last couple of games and the results have improved.You probably won't thank me for pointing this out to you, but in our last 12 games we've actually conceded fewer goals (14) than we did in our first 12 games (17)


3. Yes. If it was such an "embarrassing margin", why didn't Hearts score? Why did Hibs have (by common consent) the better chances?Because Hearts are really, really scheidt? Because their goalscoring record is so bad that they've only scored one goal more than Dundee all season? Because we were lucky that the ref didn't give them a penalty, and then that last-minute header hit the bar?

3pm
04-01-2013, 09:24 AM
Okay then, what team and tactics should he have picked?

I don't think anyone has a grumble with the team. However, why not try and pass the ball more and play through them? Maybe I am imagining thia but there seemed to be a number of high balls for Griffiths which isn't his game, 26 headered virtually everything out all night. No passes down the wings either and nobody generally within 25 yards of Leigh.

Thecat23
04-01-2013, 09:26 AM
Okay then, what team and tactics should he have picked?

Team was fine, was his tactics that I thought could have been better. Midfield should have got forward more and supported Leigh. We sat back instead of closing them down like they did us. You think any of that is wrong??

Thecat23
04-01-2013, 09:27 AM
I don't think anyone has a grumble with the team. However, why not try and pass the ball more and play through them? Maybe I am imagining thia but there seemed to be a number of high balls for Griffiths which isn't his game, 26 headered virtually everything out all night. No passes down the wings either and nobody generally within 25 yards of Leigh.


Spot on. It was frustrating because Hearts were there to be taken last night. Just have to look at the back four to start with.

Part/Time Supporter
04-01-2013, 09:35 AM
I still think our results were flattering to deceive.

That's your perception, not based on any actual facts.


You probably won't thank me for pointing this out to you, but in our last 12 games we've actually conceded fewer goals (14) than we did in our first 12 games (17)

They've been playing a more defensive system in those games, partly to protect the weakened defence.


Because Hearts are really, really scheidt? Because their goalscoring record is so bad that they've only scored one goal more than Dundee all season? Because we were lucky that the ref didn't give them a penalty, and then that last-minute header hit the bar?

You're all over the place. One minute you're talking up Hearts and how much dominance they had, the next minute you say they are really, really scheidt. You're twisting and ignoring facts to suit your Private Frazer world view.

Bill Milne
04-01-2013, 09:39 AM
Rubbish - for one we rose to the occasion. They were at home, in the last outing of their unaffordable team with 13,500 home fans cheering them on. In a ground we haven't won at since 1999 (or whenever). Yet Hibs fans still attack the performance of the players and tactics of the management.

It was clear we never set out to dominate possession or territory or play pretty football, but repel all boarders and nick a goal like we did last week against the champions. It's legitimate to disagree with the tactics - but not the result. Fenlon set them out to do that and they delivered - unlike the countless occasions where we've tried to be more expansive and left Tynie without a result.

I think the point about the Celtic game was that the team played as a unit and that was what I took out of the game. Doyle, in particular, was magnificent in hos tracking back though his finishing could, obviously, have been better.

Jones28
04-01-2013, 10:12 AM
Well I for one think last night was a good result. If you had said to me that we would unbeaten in 3 games against hearts, gotten a hard fought point at tynecastle having just beaten Celtic and gone into the winter break 4th in the league if have taken it. I suppose it's about perspective but we don't have as massive problems as many are making out but nor are we the finished article.

Dirkster23
04-01-2013, 10:35 AM
I have to be honest here and I'll prob get stick but for me Fenlon got it all wrong. Hearts had a very poor back four last night and a manager with any tactical awareness would have set out his team to batter that back four. I thought Hibs were poor and it was the most negative set of tactics I've seen since Harry Potters days for Scotland. At times it looked like we were playing a 9-0-1. folk saying it's a great point for us. really? I'd say it's two points dropped because that was a poor Hearts team and if we had some bottle to just try and have a go we would have won that game. We still seem to have this fear factor when it comes to Hearts. Not being funny but FFS they are honking, so it's about time we went out and battered them from the off and at least try and be positive. So for me last night was a major disappointment. Pat next time at ER please set the team out to win and not just to not lose the game.

Spot on mate :agree: Rather than trying to go out an win the game we looked to be happy to just get 10 men behind the ball and defend.

Thecat23
04-01-2013, 10:49 AM
Well I for one think last night was a good result. If you had said to me that we would unbeaten in 3 games against hearts, gotten a hard fought point at tynecastle having just beaten Celtic and gone into the winter break 4th in the league if have taken it. I suppose it's about perspective but we don't have as massive problems as many are making out but nor are we the finished article.

For the record I'm very happy at where we are in the league and we have came on leaps and bounds since last season. The football hasn't been great but we seem hard to beat. But I'm I happy with a point from there? No! Hearts are poor and we should have had a go at them. This setting up teams not to lose games is exactly what Potter did for Scotland and got sacked for it. Pat has the players to go out and attack, we have/had Leigh and played the right way we should be pressuring any teams back four instead of just getting them on the break, which by the way we have been. Overall I'm happy at how Hibs have brought in some steel. But in the same sense we need to start taking the game to the opposition instead of letting them come on to us because this league isn't great and I think we have a good enough squad to beat anyone.

jaba1875
04-01-2013, 10:51 AM
Maybe Fenlons building his team from the back.

I was just about to post something similar.

Pat is doing it right by building from the back and sorting out the defense first. The fact that we have Griffiths and Doyle scoring a few up front balances it out a bit but the most important part of rebuilding a team is to start at the back and I feel that is what is being done.

Have patience :pfgwa

SlickShoes
04-01-2013, 11:00 AM
Do people think that we have some sort of deep squad and variety of solid tactics that you can employ with the one set of 11 decent players we have?

This time last year we had about 2 decent players, currently we have 11 decent players, this is why we take a nose dive as soon as any injuries happen. The bench we currently have isn't going to change anything during a game, it is very very weak.

With the very limited squad we have there are limited numbers of ways we can play, the 4-5-1 worked well against celtc and it was fair to try it against hearts too. It didn't work but then what are we going to change with the same 11 players to make it all suddenly click?

Dinkydoo
04-01-2013, 11:08 AM
Rubbish - for one we rose to the occasion. They were at home, in the last outing of their unaffordable team with 13,500 home fans cheering them on. In a ground we haven't won at since 1999 (or whenever). Yet Hibs fans still attack the performance of the players and tactics of the management.

It was clear we never set out to dominate possession or territory or play pretty football, but repel all boarders and nick a goal like we did last week against the champions. It's legitimate to disagree with the tactics - but not the result. Fenlon set them out to do that and they delivered - unlike the countless occasions where we've tried to be more expansive and left Tynie without a result.

I'm not disagreeing with the result, just the performance. The Hibs support turned up but the players didn't. The fact that we achieved a draw by utter fluke shouldn't be overlooked. The tactics last night very nearly didn't work and if Hearts actually had any cutting edge up front we'd have lost badly.

Thecat23
04-01-2013, 11:15 AM
I was just about to post something similar.

Pat is doing it right by building from the back and sorting out the defense first. The fact that we have Griffiths and Doyle scoring a few up front balances it out a bit but the most important part of rebuilding a team is to start at the back and I feel that is what is being done.

Have patience :pfgwa

people seem to missing my point here. I'm fully backing Fenlon and it's a work in progress which will take time. What I'm saying it Hibs have the players to hurt Hearts and if he took the chance last night believe me Hibs would have won that game. It's how negative we were against a very poor hearts team that has left me disappointed.

Nailrod
04-01-2013, 11:25 AM
You're all over the place. One minute you're talking up Hearts and how much dominance they had, the next minute you say they are really, really scheidt. You're twisting and ignoring facts to suit your Private Frazer world view.

Fact:
SPL 2012-13. Hearts. Played: 21. Goals for: 20

Facts:
Hearts v. Hibs 03.01.13

Possession: Hearts: 68% - Hibs: 32%
Corners: Hearts: 13 - Hibs: 1

I've been sitting here for several minutes trying to work out what kind of a Frazerian fool would twist and ignore these facts into a belief that Hearts are rubbish, and that they totally dominated last night's match. Haven't got there yet, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time...

MB62
04-01-2013, 11:42 AM
I am somewhere in the middle ground with all this arguing about Fenlon and tactics etc.

Last night was absolutely brutal to watch and I was disappointed that we surrendered to them in an attacking form, right from the start. The defensive tactic worked against celtc after getting the early goal and team was brilliant in the fighting qualities that are needed in these games, exactly as they were again last night.
The disappointment comes from the fact we turned up against a very ordinary hearts team who had a few players missing, and we never tried to get at them.
What could we have done differently?
Well I don't think playing Deegan, Claros and Taiwo together in the middle gives us any attacking options as none of them ever bust a gut to get in the box (Deegan had a nose bleed last night, maybe caused by crossing the half way line :greengrin), so one of the attacking option is to play Spoonie wide right in place of one of them whilst moving Doyle through the middle to give Sparkie a helping hand.

Hearts certainly dominated possesion but I wouldn't say they had had a bundle more chances than we did, more yes, but certainly not the 2-1 ratio McGlynn came out with and either team could have stole the three points if they had been capable of taking one of their few chances.

I can understand why P.F. set the team up the way he did, especially after the result against the 'dodgers', however it is the style of football that won't see me digging deep in to my pockets to watch on a frequent basis.
The pitch at Swinie is like a bog and doesn't allow for pretty football, Tool (or Taouil) was the only player who tried to put his foot on the ball for any length of time, so maybe it was the right tactics for this game?
So very much 50-50 on the rights and wrongs of last night, certainly an improvement on previous seasons but still much to improve on, starting with a more forward thinking mentality.

What happens in the transfer window and how much the board/STF back the manager will be the main source of interest in the next couple of weeks.

Part/Time Supporter
04-01-2013, 11:51 AM
Fact:
SPL 2012-13. Hearts. Played: 21. Goals for: 20

Facts:
Hearts v. Hibs 03.01.13

Possession: Hearts: 68% - Hibs: 32%
Corners: Hearts: 13 - Hibs: 1

I've been sitting here for several minutes trying to work out what kind of a Frazerian fool would twist and ignore these facts into a belief that Hearts are rubbish, and that they totally dominated last night's match. Haven't got there yet, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time...

And how many shots for each team? Or are you just cherry picking statistics to suit your argument?

Thecat23
04-01-2013, 11:59 AM
I am somewhere in the middle ground with all this arguing about Fenlon and tactics etc.

Last night was absolutely brutal to watch and I was disappointed that we surrendered to them in an attacking form, right from the start. The defensive tactic worked against celtc after getting the early goal and team was brilliant in the fighting qualities that are needed in these games, exactly as they were again last night.
The disappointment comes from the fact we turned up against a very ordinary hearts team who had a few players missing, and we never tried to get at them.
What could we have done differently?
Well I don't think playing Deegan, Claros and Taiwo together in the middle gives us any attacking options as none of them ever bust a gut to get in the box (Deegan had a nose bleed last night, maybe caused by crossing the half way line :greengrin), so one of the attacking option is to play Spoonie wide right in place of one of them whilst moving Doyle through the middle to give Sparkie a helping hand.

Hearts certainly dominated possesion but I wouldn't say they had had a bundle more chances than we did, more yes, but certainly not the 2-1 ration McGlynn came out with and either team could have stole the three points if they had been capable of taking one of their few chances.

I can understand why P.F. set the team up the way he did, especially after the result against the 'dodgers', however it is the style of football that won't see me digging deep in to my pockets to watch on a frequent basis.
The pitch at Swinie is like a bog and doesn't allow for pretty football, Tool (or Taouil) was the only player who tried to put his foot on the ball for any length of time, so maybe it was the right tactics for this game?
So very much 50-50 on the rights and wrongs of last night, certainly an improvement on previous seasons but still much to improve on, starting with a more forward thinking mentality.

What happens in the transfer window and how much the board/STF back the manager will be the main source of interest in the next couple of weeks.

Very good post mate. :top marks

--------
04-01-2013, 12:26 PM
Hearts last played on Boxing Day at Killie, Hibs were beaten that day at ER by Ross County - and were dire.

Pat lit a fire under the team and on the 19th Hibs deservedly beat Celtic, the League leaders, at ER. Hearts' game at Dingwall was postponed. They were fresh after a full week's rest and preparation. Hibs ran themselves into the ground on the Saturday and showed the effects last night.

My view, Hearts dictated that it would be a bruiser - we already know that that sort of game doesn't suit Hibs. they had 12 corners to Hibs one - and the nearest they came to scoring was tto rattle our crossbar right at the end. This in spite of Hearts' advantage in height throughout their team. Time was we were moaning about the team not being able to defend corners and free-kicks.

It's easy to dictate a hoofball game - all you need is a team of hard men and a referee who doesn't see someone trying to break a opponent's leg. (Though personally I thought Willie Collum, that one incident apart, did us OK last night. It looked like a penalty, I'd say, but after all, we've been owed at least one since May.) To dictate play by getting the ball on the ground and outpassing the opposition needs at least one player head and shoulders above the others on the pitch - a Willie Hamilton or an Alex Edwards, for example - and we don't have anyone like that right now.

I donb't think Eoin Doyle's problem is a lack of bottle - I think that when a chance comes to him with pressure like the one last night, his technique lets him down and he pokes at the ball instead of stroking it. He's a lot better a player than he was last year and I'm more than ready to give him time and the benefit of the doubt.

Actually, I thought the team did a lot better than some are giving them credit for - they made the chances to win the game, and even when they were under pressure late on they didn't stop fighting for the cause. They deserved the draw, and could have stolen a win.

The game last night was a bar-fight, the sort of thing the Bug-Eyed Swamp-Monster and his spawn excel at. If they'd been allowed to bring broken bottles and baseball bats onto the park, they would have. And Swampie would have justified it afterwards, just as he justified Stevenson's assault on McPake.

To improve the team, Pat needs money. Agreed. This is true even if we hold onto Jorge, Ryan and Leigh past the break. (I wish I was a lot more optimistic about that than I am, frankly.) But with the financial situation in the country, in the League, and not least at ER right now, RPO and the board have to go very carefully. I'd say we're looking at a case of one out, one in, and maybe a couple of pre-contracts signed for next season.

Last night's game was exactly the sort of game my doctor has told me to avoid - high-stress, high-anxiety, blood-pressure through the roof stuff - and I didn't enjoy it. But I LOVE hearing Swamp-Monster moaning that Hearts put so much into it and still didn't win. LOVE IT!

And one other thing - I though Lewis sweated blood for the team last night after he came on. Awesome. :not worth

Speedy
04-01-2013, 12:36 PM
Can't disagree with any of that...why put Doyle out wide when he can't beat anyone, nor run past anyone .?.....can't believe he stayed on for the whole game...should have scored....overall thought the standard was brutal.

I thought Doyle did really well on the right against Celtic. If you look at posts after that game there were more suggestions for keeping the same team than for changing things.

snooky
04-01-2013, 07:21 PM
Well feel free to have a try.

I said we are toothless - do you dispute that?
I said that Sparky's goals earlier in the season covered up some serious deficiencies - do you dispute that?
I provided some evidence based on the last ten games - do you dispute that?
I pointed out that we were outplayed by an embarrassing margin last night by the worst Hearts team in a decade - do you dispute that?
Are you seriously suggesting that Hibs have been playing 'pretty' football while failing to get results over the last five seasons?
I'm delighted to hear it. Any chance you might explain to me where it's going to come from? Because my concern is that while you might get the odd result while playing poorly, over time you won't. As is kind of borne out by the results over the last ten games. We certainly haven't been 'playing pretty' - something from which I guess you derive great satisfaction. But hey. In actual fact, we haven't 'got results' either. In fact the only team that has lost more games than us is anchored-to-the-bottom-of-the-table Dundee.
More good news. By then we might perhaps aspire to achieving something resembling parity with them, rather than treating them as if they were Barcelona, and lumping the ball up the field in the hope that it might bounce off one of their defender's knees and go into the goal.
I understand enough about football to know that if your front five see none of the ball then your back five will see a lot of it.

Spot on :greengrin You hit the Nail on the head, NR.

BTW, I agree with all the rest of your comments as well.

Dan Sarf
04-01-2013, 07:38 PM
Hearts last played on Boxing Day at Killie, Hibs were beaten that day at ER by Ross County - and were dire.

Pat lit a fire under the team and on the 19th Hibs deservedly beat Celtic, the League leaders, at ER. Hearts' game at Dingwall was postponed. They were fresh after a full week's rest and preparation. Hibs ran themselves into the ground on the Saturday and showed the effects last night.

My view, Hearts dictated that it would be a bruiser - we already know that that sort of game doesn't suit Hibs. they had 12 corners to Hibs one - and the nearest they came to scoring was tto rattle our crossbar right at the end. This in spite of Hearts' advantage in height throughout their team. Time was we were moaning about the team not being able to defend corners and free-kicks.

It's easy to dictate a hoofball game - all you need is a team of hard men and a referee who doesn't see someone trying to break a opponent's leg. (Though personally I thought Willie Collum, that one incident apart, did us OK last night. It looked like a penalty, I'd say, but after all, we've been owed at least one since May.) To dictate play by getting the ball on the ground and outpassing the opposition needs at least one player head and shoulders above the others on the pitch - a Willie Hamilton or an Alex Edwards, for example - and we don't have anyone like that right now.

I donb't think Eoin Doyle's problem is a lack of bottle - I think that when a chance comes to him with pressure like the one last night, his technique lets him down and he pokes at the ball instead of stroking it. He's a lot better a player than he was last year and I'm more than ready to give him time and the benefit of the doubt.

Actually, I thought the team did a lot better than some are giving them credit for - they made the chances to win the game, and even when they were under pressure late on they didn't stop fighting for the cause. They deserved the draw, and could have stolen a win.

The game last night was a bar-fight, the sort of thing the Bug-Eyed Swamp-Monster and his spawn excel at. If they'd been allowed to bring broken bottles and baseball bats onto the park, they would have. And Swampie would have justified it afterwards, just as he justified Stevenson's assault on McPake.

To improve the team, Pat needs money. Agreed. This is true even if we hold onto Jorge, Ryan and Leigh past the break. (I wish I was a lot more optimistic about that than I am, frankly.) But with the financial situation in the country, in the League, and not least at ER right now, RPO and the board have to go very carefully. I'd say we're looking at a case of one out, one in, and maybe a couple of pre-contracts signed for next season.

Last night's game was exactly the sort of game my doctor has told me to avoid - high-stress, high-anxiety, blood-pressure through the roof stuff - and I didn't enjoy it. But I LOVE hearing Swamp-Monster moaning that Hearts put so much into it and still didn't win. LOVE IT!

And one other thing - I though Lewis sweated blood for the team last night after he came on. Awesome. :not worth


:top marks Please, Pat. Find us one. Please?

HFC 0-7
04-01-2013, 07:57 PM
You're not the only person to see this, but things are improving and will hopefully improve more after January's window.

We could easily be the only club out of the other 11 who strengthen.

With the budget we have, Fenlon couldnt have made us good at defending, amazing in midfield and dangerous up front in one window. He has decided to start at the back which he has succeeded at IMO. If we keep Griffiths and add a midfielder with a bit of creativity we will become a different proposition all together. We have a good defence and 2 good forwards, what we are lacking is a way to connect the 2 going forward. Our midfielders at the moment are very similar in that they break play up well but cant really take on opposition and make the vital passes into the forwards.

Even with a creative midfielder we will still be thin on the ground with players and will have to resort to defensive tactics at times. Make no mistake we have made vast improvements since last season and although I agree that we havent looked like destroying opposition, we have, in a lot of games, been comfortable in terms of opposition chances. Last night we were honking and were fortunate that we didnt get beat, but last season under that amount of pressure we would have lost goals and probably a few. Last night didnt do anything for the team in terms of how performances have improved but it certainly showed how attitude, belief and concentration has improved.

leggeto
04-01-2013, 08:03 PM
Although we beat Septic, does anyone think we looked good? I cant remember the last time I said "we looked really good today". Tonight against 'Them' I thought we were mediocre at best, and did not press them at all. I can't remember the last time I watched a game and thought the opposition looked worried about us. I have seen a few games where we have played really well defensively (I never thought I would hear myself say that watching us over the last few years), and Griffiths has produced a bit of magic, but I am not seeing us troubling anyone too much.

The talk for the Transfer Window is keeping our loan players. Yes, we absolutely need to do that, but we also need at least three players to come in and bolster the squad.

I keep banging on about this, but my main priority is height and presence in the midfield. A creative wide player or two may also help. I was also hoping that Kuqi was going to be a battering ram for our attack, having watched clips of him on youtube. If he is not the man, we could do with someone for that role.

its a work in progress remember the mess and deadwood left behind by calderwood,punching above our weight doing a bit to well if going by that:flag:

NAE NOOKIE
05-01-2013, 11:58 AM
Forgot to say in my post on the 3rd ............. Happy New Year everybody.

Anyway, something I didnt perhaps make clear in my post. I wasnt that bothered about PFs tactics as such. To play a conservative game and look to score on the break is a reasonable tactic away from home. Especially when only a few days earlier that tactic had been used with great success against a team with far better quality in most areas than we possess.

Our inability to make use of the ball when we did have it was the big problem, not helped by the fact that our midfield did nothing to help the one forward we did have ... not counting Doyle because he couldnt be counted as a forward on the night considering how deep he was playing.

It has become noticable as the season has progressed that not one of our central midfield players is capable of either running past a colleague in possession into a forward position to take a pass, or able to run into the box to give a forward out wide in possession something to aim at.

It was a major failing of the previous managers that this aspect of play was ignored and a major reason why teams found it so easy to defend against us.

We have played 22 matches and in those 22 games Taiwo, Deegan and Claros have scored no goals. Cairney has 2 and Wotherspoon has 1 ... It could be 2 I'm not positive.

The bottom line is that a return of 3 or 4 goals in 22 matches from 5 midfield players is shocking .... I would doubt if there is a team in the top flight in Scotland or England with such a poor return.

Against Ross County Doyle made a run down the right with the ball ...... during that run he looked up at least twice to see who was in the box and seeing no one held off his cross until eventually he was tackled and the ball went out for a Hibs throw 4 yards from the byeline. Doyle threw up his hands in frustration and the guy behind me gave him pelters for not playing the ball into the box. But who was to blame ..... Doyle for not wanting to waste the ball or our midfield for giving him nothing to pass to.

If Claros, Deegan and Taiwo cant run into the last third without getting a nose bleed then we cant play all 3 of them in the same midfield. For me Cairney is wasted out on the left all the time. He is a better passer of the ball than most in the team, he can beat a man and he isnt afraid of a tackle. He's not quick enough to be a winger so for me I would love to see him given a run in central midfield.

If PF doesnt want to move Cairney because that would give us nothing out left then he needs to get himself a new left winger or a new forward thinking midfield player.

Part/Time Supporter
05-01-2013, 01:26 PM
Forgot to say in my post on the 3rd ............. Happy New Year everybody.

Anyway, something I didnt perhaps make clear in my post. I wasnt that bothered about PFs tactics as such. To play a conservative game and look to score on the break is a reasonable tactic away from home. Especially when only a few days earlier that tactic had been used with great success against a team with far better quality in most areas than we possess.

Our inability to make use of the ball when we did have it was the big problem, not helped by the fact that our midfield did nothing to help the one forward we did have ... not counting Doyle because he couldnt be counted as a forward on the night considering how deep he was playing.

It has become noticable as the season has progressed that not one of our central midfield players is capable of either running past a colleague in possession into a forward position to take a pass, or able to run into the box to give a forward out wide in possession something to aim at.

It was a major failing of the previous managers that this aspect of play was ignored and a major reason why teams found it so easy to defend against us.

We have played 22 matches and in those 22 games Taiwo, Deegan and Claros have scored no goals. Cairney has 2 and Wotherspoon has 1 ... It could be 2 I'm not positive.

The bottom line is that a return of 3 or 4 goals in 22 matches from 5 midfield players is shocking .... I would doubt if there is a team in the top flight in Scotland or England with such a poor return.

Against Ross County Doyle made a run down the right with the ball ...... during that run he looked up at least twice to see who was in the box and seeing no one held off his cross until eventually he was tackled and the ball went out for a Hibs throw 4 yards from the byeline. Doyle threw up his hands in frustration and the guy behind me gave him pelters for not playing the ball into the box. But who was to blame ..... Doyle for not wanting to waste the ball or our midfield for giving him nothing to pass to.

If Claros, Deegan and Taiwo cant run into the last third without getting a nose bleed then we cant play all 3 of them in the same midfield. For me Cairney is wasted out on the left all the time. He is a better passer of the ball than most in the team, he can beat a man and he isnt afraid of a tackle. He's not quick enough to be a winger so for me I would love to see him given a run in central midfield.

If PF doesnt want to move Cairney because that would give us nothing out left then he needs to get himself a new left winger or a new forward thinking midfield player.

Hence the rumours of Liam Craig signing.

Hibeesforever
05-01-2013, 01:42 PM
Maybe Fenlons building his team from the back.

Interesting, maybe Pat will spend the big money on McGivern then ? Could be money well spent. Buy a goal scoring midfielder and then next season look at strengthing forward line with a couple of big signings. This season was always a work in progress.

Really enjoying seeing the development though.


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