Creative midfielder

[hibsbollah]

We were poor across the pitch today, but one thing that jumps out at you after today's debacle was the absence of anyone in the midfield who can thread a killer pass on a regular basis.

When you're playing a team like Ross County who are playing 451 and start time wasting after 20 minutes of 0-0, and a ref who gives a foul against the attacker at every high ball, what you need is a ball played in behind the back line. Cairney, Taiwo, Deegan and Spoony all have their merits, but they're not capable of the creative attacking pass. Deegan especially gave the ball away constantly in forward positions, but to be fair to him, that's not why we bought him.

I don't blame Fenlon's tactics today, I just think we need one more good signing and we won't be far off a decent team.

[allezsauzee]

If Leigh Griffiths leaves, I would like to see Paul Cairney play just behind Eoin Doyle. I think PC has plenty of craft and works his socks off but he isn't quick. We could do with more pace on the flanks. I think Eoin could score a barrowload with some decent service from the flanks and Paul pulling the strings from a central position.

[bingo70]

I think we need to either change the system so cairney plays behind a front two or we need to sign at least one quick tricky winger.

[hibsbollah]

In the absence of a new signing, I agree with you. Cairney is our best midfielder at present, but sometimes the game passes him by out on the wing. He's often cutting into central positions anyway, so playing in the hole behind a lone striker, or in the hole between two strikers, might be his best position?

[hibby rae]

Agree with all of this. I'm not sure Deegan and Taiwo should be playing in the centre together in a 4 man midfield and I think that was the main problem today ( not that I'm questioning their ability as players). I would have liked to have seen somebody brought on to allow Spoony or Cairney to switch and play through the middle.

[cocopops1875]

I agree with the OP, We cant break at all as soon as the ball is cleared from our box we simply end up playing back and slowing the play down, its doing my nut in:grr::brickwall:brickwall:brickwall

[AlbertK86]

Got to argue about nobody who can pick a pass


Cairney has done it time and again this season

Top assists in league until recently and possibly still

Great passes v hearts and Killie in recent times

Think Pat defo sees him central just off the front long term but needs to get a left winger in first

Maybe happen once/ if we get Erskine in

[hibsbollah]

Got to argue about nobody who can pick a pass


Cairney has done it time and again this season

Top assists in league until recently and possibly still

Great passes v hearts and Killie in recent times

Think Pat defo sees him central just off the front long term but needs to get a left winger in first

Maybe happen once/ if we get Erskine in

A lot of Cairneys assists come from jinking runs into the box and little lay offs to Sparky or Doyle, or bombing down the wing and beating a man. I'm talking about a threaded pass through players for our strikers to run past the back four on to. I dare say he has done that a few times this season, but I wouldn't say that's his main game (and playing wide left, it shouldn't be either).

[ancient hibee]

The wide men don't try often enough to get past the full backs and get to the line-as a result we are predictable and easy to defend against.We desperately need pace on the wings.

[stanton10]

Agree with all of this. I'm not sure Deegan and Taiwo should be playing in the centre together in a 4 man midfield and I think that was the main problem today ( not that I'm questioning their ability as players). I would have liked to have seen somebody brought on to allow Spoony or Cairney to switch and play through the middle.

I would liked to see what any of the younger guys do and get spoony out the team my god how many chances does he need ,week in week out mediocre,? to say tha least ?

[Bookkeeper]

The wide men don't try often enough to get past the full backs and get to the line-as a result we are predictable and easy to defend against.We desperately need pace on the wings.

:agree: The trouble is both Cairney and Spoony are not naturally wide players and neither have the pace required for that position. Both would be better suited to playing more centrally as they offer something going forward. We suffer from always playing 2 holding midfielders though. Think it leads to us always ending up playing too deep.

[cammy1969]

watching todays game and not for the 1st time this season there is no pace from midfield wide players are both v slow and the 2 in the centre wont push to far up the field.
the gap between the font 2 and midfield is terrible lost count how many time the forwards dropped backed in to midfield and that left 1 left up front on his own cant see for the life of me why we need 2 sitting midfielders could go on and on but think thats the main probs that i see

[trev the hat]

Hope I'm wrong but can see us being left with Deegan / Taiwo post Janruary in the middle, there's little to no £££ whilst both are decent, those slide rule passes your on about HB ain't gonna come from these two. Cairney is a dream player for us & a good find by PF. Although we won't see the best of him until there's a decent supporting balanced midfield who can thread a pass to him rather than relying on him being supplier. Can't help but think Kenny Miller would hugely benefit us even in a forward thinking midfield role. Prob won't happen but would improve our overall distribution quality.
We shall see I guess

[3pm]

I'll go a step further and say Claros should be binned if we can get someone more offensive. We're tidy but there isn't a lot more.

All 3 in the centre are similar, Taiwo a touch more defensive, Deegan with a bit more drive and Jorge somewhere in between.

No criticism of Jorge, I like him but the balance has to change and his contract is up first.

[marinello59]

I'll go a step further and say Claros should be binned if we can get someone more offensive.

Anybody have a phone number for Jerry Sadowitz?

[Love the Green]

If Leigh Griffiths leaves, I would like to see Paul Cairney play just behind Eoin Doyle. I think PC has plenty of craft and works his socks off but he isn't quick. We could do with more pace on the flanks. I think Eoin could score a barrowload with some decent service from the flanks and Paul pulling the strings from a central position.

Aye right in your dreams..or in a.primary school match.
Just like the manager and another 6 players OUT OF THEIR DEPTH.

keep the faith

[cocopops1875]

Anybody have a phone number for Jerry Sadowitz?

:faf::faf::faf::top marks

[3pm]

Anybody have a phone number for Jerry Sadowitz?

Well come on then, lets hear the alternatives...

[Lang Toun Hibs]

I would liked to see what any of the younger guys do and get spoony out the team my god how many chances does he need ,week in week out mediocre,? to say tha least ?

Really? Are you being serious? Wow. In my humble opinion, spoony and Cairney are two creative players who can do things for Leigh and Doyle. We don't have many other options. I'd say Claros is more forward thinking than Deegan or Taiwo. Can't believe some of us continue to slate one of our best young players which is how I regard Wotherspoon. Tell me what chance would you/do you give Handling, Caldwell etc. before you jump on their backs?

Where do I find the self destruct button - oh I see, you've got it.

[Love the Green]

Hope I'm wrong but can see us being left with Deegan / Taiwo post Janruary in the middle, there's little to no £££ whilst both are decent, those slide rule passes your on about HB ain't gonna come from these two. Cairney is a dream player for us & a good find by PF. Although we won't see the best of him until there's a decent supporting balanced midfield who can thread a pass to him rather than relying on him being supplier. Can't help but think Kenny Miller would hugely benefit us even in a forward thinking midfield role. Prob won't happen but would improve our overall distribution quality.
We shall see I guess

WHY? We have at least 3 times the income of well, saints x 2, caley, killie, ross county and yet we struggle to not only beat them but compete with them on all levels, fitness, pace skill, organization, tactic movement passing and will to win.None of these teams reach the SCF lasy year and mad almost £1m

keep the faith

[Lang Toun Hibs]

I don't blame Fenlon's tactics today, I just think we need one more good signing and we won't be far off a decent team.

No but he had the chance to change things sooner. We were getting no where with the tippy tappy sideways stuff being pressed high up the park. The tactics should have been adjusted - even if that means sticking the big old chap on and going route one. At least we'd get to see if he provides this option. There were very small signs that he at least unsettled them in the last 5 mins or so.

We were poor today, many in the team let themselves down and I think Pat didn't take the chance to do something about it which is disappointing but no more than that. Wouldn't like to see this continue though. It was bad enough today with the referee spoiling the game without us contributing to our own downfall.

[hibsbollah]

No but he had the chance to change things sooner. We were getting no where with the tippy tappy sideways stuff being pressed high up the park. The tactics should have been adjusted - even if that means sticking the big old chap on and going route one. At least we'd get to see if he provides this option. There were very small signs that he at least unsettled them in the last 5 mins or so.

We were poor today, many in the team let themselves down and I think Pat didn't take the chance to do something about it which is disappointing but no more than that. Wouldn't like to see this continue though. It was bad enough today with the referee spoiling the game without us contributing to our own downfall.

He made the change on an hour. Half an hour was plenty of time for Claros and Handling to make a difference. I think his timing was about right.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Lack of pace in our forward players stuck out like a sore thumb today. Any team coming to ER and sits with 5 in front of 4 would almost be guaranteed a point based on what we saw today. We couldn't shift the ball quick enough to catch them out of formation.

[gegs70]

Bar a decent shot from claros did we really test the keeper.

Wasnt a lot of movement off the ball, passing was terrible. It was frustrating moving forward just to eventually start passing back. The only time it got exciting was thanks to the ref booking all the players otherwise i would have left. Not entertaining and not worth the money or time. Kuqi is a waste of time not a game changer. Hopefully some new faces in the new year. Claros made a difference when he came on though!

[coco22]

Surely the shift to Deegan and taiwo is looking towards Claros leaving. TBH I would have Claros in the team before either. Still, a wee Christmas present of a 'Brussel Chipolatopy' type would ate go a miss...

[Onceinawhile]

Deegan and Taiwo sat all game and at no point looked to attack and get themselves forward. Playing like that means we need our wide players to perform, or at least try and get behind/passed the full backs and unfortunately neither spoony or cairney bothered even trying this.

Absolutely minging from the whole midfield four.

[gegs70]

I think we are still a good 5-6 players away especially if we lose our loanees!!! That was terrible today and under 9k it wont do much to encourage fans back?

[Broken Gnome]

Couldn't we revert to 451 at some points during games if 442 is not working? Bring either Wotherspoon or Cairney in centrally - let them roam in front of Deegan and Taiwo and just off Griffiths, taking the the ball to feet and turning. Whoever stays out wide joins Doyle in playingeither side of Griffiths. Not negative at all, would actually help us be more threatening.

[Green Fish]

Time to freshen up MF which is dull and toopredictable, give Stanton a run - a real talent who deserves a chance, if it doesn't work what is lost - he'll get valuable game time

[Lang Toun Hibs]

He made the change on an hour. Half an hour was plenty of time for Claros and Handling to make a difference. I think his timing was about right.

Didn't really change much with half an hour to go. Swapped like for like and while I reckon Claros is more forward thinking than Taiwo and improved us a little, it was a big ask for Handling to improve upon what Spoony offers. Essentially the tactics didn't change much if any before 85 mins.

[LeighLoyal]

I thought Deegan did pretty well, didn't really notice Taiwo too much though.

[lyonhibs]

A threaded pass needs an active, alert and onside striker to move onto it. Griffiths may have been fulfilling that role earlier this season, but on that last 180 minutes, he certainly ain't any more.

With our strikers showing as much nous and movement as a lump of coal, we could have Pirlo and Cruyff (Johann, if he managed to catch the 26) in centre midfield and still struggle.

[LaMotta]

A lot of Cairneys assists come from jinking runs into the box and little lay offs to Sparky or Doyle, or bombing down the wing and beating a man. I'm talking about a threaded pass through players for our strikers to run past the back four on to. I dare say he has done that a few times this season, but I wouldn't say that's his main game (and playing wide left, it shouldn't be either).

Totally agree with you about lack of creatvity from centre mid.... Cairney though is more than capable of the threaded slide rule pass.. doyles goal against inverness, sparkys against dun utd, doyles second against motherwell, off the top of ma heid.

Strange that claros benched while deegan and taiwo both start as claros uses the ball far more intelligently than other two..unless he is injured or on his way in jan. dont think ive seen our centre mid get in the box for about two seasons now they never look like scoring. Think that Claros' shot today was his first in a hibs jersey!

[neil7908]

Agree with the general comments on the thread, for me our ideal midfield would be see us bringing in a speedy left winger and moving Cairney in beside Claros. Unless we are up against Celtic at Parkhead and are looking to really dig in I cant see the merit of playing 2 defensive minded players like Deegan and Taiwo in the middle of the park. Especially crazy to do at home to teams below us in the league where we should be looking to dictate the play and bring the game to them.

I think you can get away with 1 slow wide man but 2 in Cairney and Wotherspoon, combined with a defensive pair in the middle will always see us struggling to break down teams that play 10 men behind the ball

[Wotherspiniesta]

Would love to see us go for Nicky Law at Motherwell.

Think he's got a great engine, can spot a pass and chip in with a few goals from centre midfield.

[hibsbollah]

Would love to see us go for Nicky Law at Motherwell.

Think he's got a great engine, can spot a pass and chip in with a few goals from centre midfield.

If we were going on a raid of Motherwell I'd rather one of Humphries or Oumar Daley (both speedy wingers) or Ojamaa (not the fastest but can beat a man with skill regularly)

[J-C]

At this moment in time we need Cairney in the middle to influence the games, we don't have width apart from Sproule who is pants, why then do we not play Stevenson at left midfield, not as a winger but he is a natural left sided player, would free up Cairney and bolster the midfield at the same time, this is not a solution but would be better till we got natural width in the team.

[Hibbyradge]

The most attack minded, creative and skillful midfield player in the world can't make killer passes unless the forwards are making good runs.

[Steve-O]

Got to question the scouting over the last few years at ER. Since John Park left it has truly been woeful.

[blackpoolhibs]

Our midfield are very pedestrian, Cairney probably the one player with craft and ability to go past a player.

Our wide men rarely get past their man, they are both slow with little pace. We need wide men who can go past players and get into the box, even go past our front players.

I believe we need two new wide players with pace and better ability than Wotherspoon currently has.

Cairney could then move inside, and supply the ammunition, along with the new players. We have a decent keeper, our back 4 when all fit are better, next we need to improve the quality wide.

The team is making progress, i can see that, thats why i know i have to be a little patient.

[jw1410]

I don't get why we seem to play the ball down the wings even when it doesn't suit our play, how many goals have we scored this season from a ball swung in from traditional wing play? Both our forwards are tiny, our wingers slow and we lose the ball far too easily down the flanks.

I think a 4-1-2-1-2 or a 4-3-2-1 (if we lose Sparky) would allow Spoony and Cairney to sit in the middle a bit more naturally, we play good football when we can actually flood the midfield and with those two sat in the middle I don't think we need to splash out on another midfielder.