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Diclonius
15-12-2012, 05:11 PM
Operate on a shoestring budget, attract crowd income of 5k, have to cut costs almost every single year and regularly lose half their team, if not their manager.

Yet every season they put in a strong challenge for Europe - qualifying more often than not, have finished well above us 3 out of the last five seasons, and consistently sign quality players on free transfers and low wages seemingly out of nowhere.

Why can't we do that?

Russell The Dug
15-12-2012, 05:13 PM
We don't employ the right managers?

hibs4thecup1988
15-12-2012, 05:14 PM
Being honest they are probably the best team I've saw at Easter Road this season. Done their best to keep it on the ground. Played with two pacey wingers and in all honesty got what they deserved.

Why can't we do it? Wish we knew cause we could maybe sort it. But there is attitude problems all around and that's the biggest thing for me

Frogga
15-12-2012, 05:30 PM
Yeah congrats to m'well. They were as good second half as we were bad.

hibees 7062
15-12-2012, 05:44 PM
Operate on a shoestring budget, attract crowd income of 5k, have to cut costs almost every single year and regularly lose half their team, if not their manager.

Yet every season they put in a strong challenge for Europe - qualifying more often than not, have finished well above us 3 out of the last five seasons, and consistently sign quality players on free transfers and low wages seemingly out of nowhere.

Why can't we do that?

Inverness aswell mate . 6 goals against in 2 weeks :confused:

SteveHFC
15-12-2012, 05:45 PM
Can we sign Hateley, Higdon, Hammell and Law in januray?

Bishop Hibee
15-12-2012, 05:53 PM
Fair go to Motherwell they deserved to win for their second half performance although we were the better team in the first.

Fenlon has improved Hibs beyond recognition from last season but it is a work in progress. I'd like to see him given at least 3 years and if he can continue to improve our squad we'll be finishing above Motherwell. Next task for us is to sign a left sided player with pace and try to keep McGivern and especially Griffiths. Not so worried about Claros as we have Taiwo and Deegan who are the same kind of player.

As I've stated before on here, top 6 would be fantastic after last season and I stick by that.

truehibernian
15-12-2012, 05:55 PM
They have what we've not had in 5 or 6 years - pace, width, drive. Great side to watch in full flow - credit to McCall and 'Well, great wee side.

Hibs against pace = panic stations

BoltonHibee
15-12-2012, 06:23 PM
Operate on a shoestring budget, attract crowd income of 5k, have to cut costs almost every single year and regularly lose half their team, if not their manager.

Yet every season they put in a strong challenge for Europe - qualifying more often than not, have finished well above us 3 out of the last five seasons, and consistently sign quality players on free transfers and low wages seemingly out of nowhere.

Why can't we do that?

There are so many reasons, most have been gone over on here many times.

At the end of the day, the board and particularly one person is responsible for the state of the football club. Nothing else really needs to be added.

There will be folk that **** themselves stupid on here about off field achievements but really who gives a **** as we are only interested in what happens on the park.

Petrie and his begging letters or statements anger me.

The mans a clown, and should be removed from office

Hibees07
15-12-2012, 06:28 PM
Motherwell were a poor side as bad as Aberdeen a few weeks ago, any competent manager would have seen today's game out easily. Unfortunately we dangled a carrot & Motherwell laped it up. Had we actually attacked in the 2nd half we would have put 4 or 5 past them.

RIP
15-12-2012, 06:34 PM
The culture at their club is better than ours.

Fitness, work ethic, discipline.

Running hard, putting tackles in, keeping going for 90 minutes

Terry Butcher has it at Inverness. Not the most skillful but honest pros.

Golden Bear
15-12-2012, 06:38 PM
Operate on a shoestring budget, attract crowd income of 5k, have to cut costs almost every single year and regularly lose half their team, if not their manager.

Yet every season they put in a strong challenge for Europe - qualifying more often than not, have finished well above us 3 out of the last five seasons, and consistently sign quality players on free transfers and low wages seemingly out of nowhere.

Why can't we do that?

:agree:

Spot on. In fairness, they deserved their win albeit PF's negativity contributed greatly towards their victory.

dp00
15-12-2012, 06:42 PM
The culture at their club is better than ours.

Fitness, work ethic, discipline.

Running hard, putting tackles in, keeping going for 90 minutes

Terry Butcher has it at Inverness. Not the most skillful but honest pros.

I'm sure this is exactly what pat is trying to bring to hibs... He needs time, all the teams mentioned here have have been pretty steady in terms of personnel in past years .....

Hibees07
15-12-2012, 06:46 PM
I'm sure this is exactly what pat is trying to bring to hibs... He needs time, all the teams mentioned here have have been pretty steady in terms of personnel in past years .....

Inverness have a whole new team!

Sir David Gray
15-12-2012, 06:49 PM
Fair play to Motherwell, they totally deserved their victory based on their second half performance. The last half an hour was probably one of the most dominant performances I have seen by an away team at Easter Road this season.

However for us to go 2-0 up and then to just stop playing, which is what happened, is just ridiculous. After Doyle scored his second goal we barely touched the ball and at no point did we look like extending our lead, retaking the lead or equalising.

Very disappointed with the way we performed in that second half and you could see the goals coming from a mile away.

Our SPL form has been awful over the past month or so and that's twice now that we've lost a two goal lead at Easter Road.

It's not going to get any easier either with us having to go to Rugby Park and Tynecastle and playing Celtic over the next few weeks.

If we're not careful we could find ourselves in a very difficult position by the time the winter break comes.

Golden Bear
15-12-2012, 06:53 PM
Fair play to Motherwell, they totally deserved their victory based on their second half performance. The last half an hour was probably one of the most dominant performances I have seen by an away team at Easter Road this season.

However for us to go 2-0 up and then to just stop playing, which is what happened, is just ridiculous. After Doyle scored his second goal we barely touched the ball and at no point did we look like extending our lead, retaking the lead or equalising.

Very disappointed with the way we performed in that second half and you could see the goals coming from a mile away.

Our SPL form has been awful over the past month or so and that's twice now that we've lost a two goal lead at Easter Road.

It's not going to get any easier either with us having to go to Rugby Park and Tynecastle and playing Celtic over the next few weeks.

If we're not careful we could find ourselves in a very difficult position by the time the winter break comes.

Yip. The truth hurts I'm afraid.

ancienthibby
15-12-2012, 06:54 PM
There are so many reasons, most have been gone over on here many times.

At the end of the day, the board and particularly one person is responsible for the state of the football club. Nothing else really needs to be added.

There will be folk that **** themselves stupid on here about off field achievements but really who gives a **** as we are only interested in what happens on the park.

Petrie and his begging letters or statements anger me.

The mans a clown, and should be removed from office

Garbage!

The man who controls the purse strings at Easter Road is SFT.

If you have anger to direct at the Hibs organisation, then get your target right!

Hibercelona
15-12-2012, 07:45 PM
[/B]
Garbage!

The man who controls the purse strings at Easter Road is SFT.

If you have anger to direct at the Hibs organisation, then get your target right!

STF can hold no blame.

Finances aren't the issue here. As somebody else has pointed out on this thread already, teams like Motherwell and Inverness operate on a far lower budget than ourselves.

Putting more money into Hibs isn't the solution.

cocopops1875
15-12-2012, 07:56 PM
STF can hold no blame.

Finances aren't the issue here. As somebody else has pointed out on this thread already, teams like Motherwell and Inverness operate on a far lower budget than ourselves.

Putting more money into Hibs isn't the solution.

Whats the solution then ?

madabouthibs
15-12-2012, 08:04 PM
How people can blame Petrie for today is beyond me! :confused:
Petrie has nothing to do with what happened today, or with anything else that goes on on the pitch.
Loosen the purse strings? What do we expect to come out of said purse? THERE'S NOTHING IN IT FFS!!! :rolleyes:
We want to keep the likes of Griffiths and McGivern etc, and yet only 8800 turn up for a game that, had we won, would have taken us to 2nd.
I feel the "Hibs culture" is slowly but surely creeping back into the squad. Wonder what time tonight the Tweets and "squad bonding" pics will start? We can't stop the guys having nights out etc, but I think they need to have a good long hard look at themselves!

Hiber-nation
15-12-2012, 08:11 PM
Motherwell were a poor side as bad as Aberdeen a few weeks ago, any competent manager would have seen today's game out easily. Unfortunately we dangled a carrot & Motherwell laped it up. Had we actually attacked in the 2nd half we would have put 4 or 5 past them.

If you thought Motherwell were poor in the 2nd half then we're really in trouble. I thought they were excellent.

Gmack7
15-12-2012, 08:14 PM
Competent management team who continually identify the right players with the right attitude at the right price

Hibercelona
15-12-2012, 08:15 PM
Whats the solution then ?

I don't know what the exact solution is. But I do know that pumping loads of money in won't get to the root cause of the problems.

It seems that we're the softest touches in the league more often than not. Other squads appear to be a tougher/fitter bunch than our own. Which would suggest to me that players aren't getting adequate training at the centre and are probably far too "comfortable" there.

cocopops1875
15-12-2012, 08:27 PM
I don't know what the exact solution is. But I do know that pumping loads of money in won't get to the root cause of the problems.

It seems that we're the softest touches in the league more often than not. Other squads appear to be a tougher/fitter bunch than our own. Which would suggest to me that players aren't getting adequate training at the centre and are probably far too "comfortable" there.

Im not suggesting we pump money in :wink: just interested as there are always people using the the term "thats not the solution" yet offering up nothing :agree:. So do you feel we looked unfit today ? how would you make the players less "comfortable" ?

Pete
15-12-2012, 08:31 PM
Maybe pat should do something he has never done before. He should watch the cup final along with the rest of the team.

It might sink in that we wont tolerate underperforming people at the club. Words are cheap and it's time for those who aren't cutting it to up it or leave. That goes for everyone!

SMAXXA
15-12-2012, 08:40 PM
Maybe pat should do something he has never done before. He should watch the cup final along with the rest of the team.

It might sink in that we wont tolerate underperforming people at the club. Words are cheap and it's time for those who aren't cutting it to up it or leave. That goes for everyone!

How do you know he hasn't?

I've read some amount of drivel on this thread its unreal.

We got be and we are on the inevitable bed run that inverness, well, aberdeen, utd have all been through, so what? We need to remember where we have come from and where we are at and appreciate the progress that's been made. Yes pats made mistakes, subs today for one but let's not go OTT.

Well won and on there second half performance deserved it, give credit where its due.

We are a work in progress, expect the knocks and roll with the punches.

Hibercelona
15-12-2012, 08:50 PM
how would you make the players less "comfortable" ?

I'd show them how teams like Inverness and Motherwell train on a weekly basis.

There would be no televisions to entertain them, or central heating to give them a nice wee warming up before they take a wee light jog on their treadmills.

I'd have them running up Arthur's Seat, regardless of the weather conditions. And if any of them dared to complain about it, they wouldn't be playing at the weekend.

cocopops1875
15-12-2012, 09:12 PM
I'd show them how teams like Inverness and Motherwell train on a weekly basis.

There would be no televisions to entertain them, or central heating to give them a nice wee warming up before they take a wee light jog on their treadmills.

I'd have them running up Arthur's Seat, regardless of the weather conditions. And if any of them dared to complain about it, they wouldn't be playing at the weekend.

How do you know we dont train as hard/harder than ICT or Motherwell ? do Man City/ Man Utd/ Barca/ Chelsea have poor training centers ? Should we just shut East Mains down and go back to training on any bit of public grass we can even in the conditions we have had this year (public parks have been flooded much more than normal) and slide tackling through piles of dog s**t ?

Franck Le God
15-12-2012, 09:38 PM
Motherwell were a poor side as bad as Aberdeen a few weeks ago, any competent manager would have seen today's game out easily. Unfortunately we dangled a carrot & Motherwell laped it up. Had we actually attacked in the 2nd half we would have put 4 or 5 past them.

5? Time for bed I think.

JHanlon
15-12-2012, 10:13 PM
There are so many reasons, most have been gone over on here many times.

At the end of the day, the board and particularly one person is responsible for the state of the football club. Nothing else really needs to be added.

There will be folk that **** themselves stupid on here about off field achievements but really who gives a **** as we are only interested in what happens on the park.

Petrie and his begging letters or statements anger me.

The mans a clown, and should be removed from office

Your solution is to get shot of the only guy at ER who's done his job properly in my lifetime? Smashing. So I guess you'd rather have a vlad type character running us into the ground. Perhaps you'd do a better job yourself?

HibeeSince85
15-12-2012, 10:15 PM
Best footballing side I've seen at ER this season.

clerriehibs
15-12-2012, 10:33 PM
How do you know he hasn't?

I've read some amount of drivel on this thread its unreal.

We got be and we are on the inevitable bed run that inverness, well, aberdeen, utd have all been through, so what? We need to remember where we have come from and where we are at and appreciate the progress that's been made. Yes pats made mistakes, subs today for one but let's not go OTT.

Well won and on there second half performance deserved it, give credit where its due.

We are a work in progress, expect the knocks and roll with the punches.

Anything that doesn't work is usually described as a work in progress.

Virtually every game at ER this season, we've been hanging on for a significant part of the game, and, IMHO, been lucky. There is no mental toughness in the team.

Kenny Shiels doesn't see us as being any better than last season, just luckier; he has a point.

Our 3 most consistent performers this season are all on loan and will most likely be off in January.

Virtually every other player has suffered from some serious criticism on this forum this season.

It really, really isn't much of a work in progress.

"We are Hibernian FC, we're a work in progress" ... it's a crap song.

MWHIBBIES
15-12-2012, 10:40 PM
Anything that doesn't work is usually described as a work in progress.

Virtually every game at ER this season, we've been hanging on for a significant part of the game, and, IMHO, been lucky. There is no mental toughness in the team.

Kenny Shiels doesn't see us as being any better than last season, just luckier; he has a point.

Our 3 most consistent performers this season are all on loan and will most likely be off in January.

Virtually every other player has suffered from some serious criticism on this forum this season.

It really, really isn't much of a work in progress.

"We are Hibernian FC, we're a work in progress" ... it's a crap song.Surely winning these games (Hearts, St Mirren, Dundee United, Killie and St Johnstone) shows mental toughness?

Williams has probably been our most consistent performer, he isn't on loan.

It is a work in progress. We were awful from top to bottom with a moron in charge last season. We are a million times better than that this season irrelevant to what that blithering idiot Kenny Shiels says.

MartinfaePorty
15-12-2012, 10:43 PM
Mate has a season ticket to McDiarmid and said Saints should have beaten Hearts today with most of their defence missing. Yes, we have deficincies, but it's only last season we couldn't buy a win. Give Pat time.

clerriehibs
15-12-2012, 10:46 PM
Surely winning these games (Hearts, St Mirren, Dundee United, Killie and St Johnstone) shows mental toughness?

Williams has probably been our most consistent performer, he isn't on loan.

It is a work in progress. We were awful from top to bottom with a moron in charge last season. We are a million times better than that this season irrelevant to what that blithering idiot Kenny Shiels says.

A team that's obviously sh**ting themselves (bar v. Dundee, maybe) when getting a result isn't mental toughness - it's lucky. When I see a Hibs team that regularly looks comfortable and assured when holding a 1 goal lead, never mind a 2 goal one, then I'll be watching a Hibs team with mental toughness.

AFKA5814_Hibs
15-12-2012, 10:50 PM
Motherwell played well in the last 30 mins but were given a huge helping hand by a Hibs team who appeared to not want to win the match.

SMAXXA
15-12-2012, 11:10 PM
Surely winning these games (Hearts, St Mirren, Dundee United, Killie and St Johnstone) shows mental toughness?

Williams has probably been our most consistent performer, he isn't on loan.

It is a work in progress. We were awful from top to bottom with a moron in charge last season. We are a million times better than that this season irrelevant to what that blithering idiot Kenny Shiels says.

Not to mention Cairney, but no point in letting the facts get in the way of some kind of negative spin on the team thats 2 points of second after 3-4 years of disaster after disaster. I dont know what some people actually expect? We are an honest team that is very threadbare outside the first eleven, we are on a poor run like most other teams have been this season, why the negativity and panic?

clerriehibs
15-12-2012, 11:23 PM
Not to mention Cairney, but no point in letting the facts get in the way of some kind of negative spin on the team thats 2 points of second after 3-4 years of disaster after disaster. I dont know what some people actually expect? We are an honest team that is very threadbare outside the first eleven, we are on a poor run like most other teams have been this season, why the negativity and panic?

ok, so we have a keeper who's a good shot stopper but doesn't dominate his area, and Cairney, who manages to disappear as often as not.

We're 4th ... but only 10 points ahead of 2nd bottom, just about 1/2 way through/

Alongside Aberdeen, we have the worst SPL record for the last FIVE games.

But you positive spin away.

ehf
16-12-2012, 12:05 AM
ok, so we have a keeper who's a good shot stopper but doesn't dominate his area, and Cairney, who manages to disappear as often as not.

We're 4th ... but only 10 points ahead of 2nd bottom, just about 1/2 way through/

Alongside Aberdeen, we have the worst SPL record for the last FIVE games.

But you positive spin away.

Fenlon's fault today: he takes our three best attacking players off and hopes to hang on. Taking Cairney off was madness, as he had been helping close Humphrey down: after that, a Well winner was inevitable.

SMAXXA
16-12-2012, 12:23 AM
ok, so we have a keeper who's a good shot stopper but doesn't dominate his area, and Cairney, who manages to disappear as often as not.

We're 4th ... but only 10 points ahead of 2nd bottom, just about 1/2 way through/

Alongside Aberdeen, we have the worst SPL record for the last FIVE games.

But you positive spin away.

Where have you been the last 3-4 years? Ur comments and rigid negative wanting to find something to moan about is laughable. I could see your point if we were struggling at the bottom of the league, unreal to be honest.

Did you enjoy the cup game, point at parkhead, beating UTD at home for the first time in ages and the other decent results we have had this season or does a dip in form cloud all that?

SouthamptonHibs
16-12-2012, 12:25 AM
IMO who cares about Well, Inverness, County Sheep etc there's only one game that counts and thats Hearts, we won the last one roll on 3rd of Jan. We will never win the league, very unlikely to get relegated, at best we get two games in Europe and finish 3rd woooooooo (as we sell our best players who done the damage the season before) no need to worry lads! Hail Hail

ekhibee
16-12-2012, 12:26 AM
Although on occasion Motherwell have played some good football over the last couple of seasons (including against us) I'm certainly not saying that was the case today, Hibs completely blew it in the second half and deserved to be punished for it. The goals were sloppy, the defending was woeful, and most of the midfield play was just as bad (with the exception of Taiwo). Fenlon has to take some of the responsibility for that, but I do agree we're still a work in progress. That said, if we can't even afford £150k for a player nowadays, we should maybe be glad that we've had the start we did, because on that basis that's as good as it's going to get this season if we end up waving goodbye to the loan deals in January and getting no free transfers of similar quality to replace them.

AFKA5814_Hibs
16-12-2012, 12:43 AM
IMO who cares about Well, Inverness, County Sheep etc there's only one game that counts and thats Hearts, we won the last one roll on 3rd of Jan. We will never win the league, very unlikely to get relegated, at best we get two games in Europe and finish 3rd woooooooo (as we sell our best players who done the damage the season before) no need to worry lads! Hail Hail

Nae offence SH, but that's part of the problem. The games against Hearts are NOT the only ones that count, they all do. Hibs will win **** all if we have the attitude that only the Hertz games matter. Todays game was as important as the Cup game v Hertz.

SouthamptonHibs
16-12-2012, 01:46 AM
Nae offence SH, but that's part of the problem. The games against Hearts are NOT the only ones that count, they all do. Hibs will win **** all if we have the attitude that only the Hertz games matter. Todays game was as important as the Cup game v Hertz.

I agree with you regards every game matters, problem is that i've kind of accepted that we will never win the league. all i hope for each year / season is a decent cup run and wins v the yams.

AFKA5814_Hibs
16-12-2012, 01:59 AM
I agree with you regards every game matters, problem is that i've kind of accepted that we will never win the league. all i hope for eaci year / season is a decent cup run and wins v the yams.

I was at the Cup game v Yams and it was a brilliant feeling to beat those bassas, but we need to win oor league games to get into Europe.

Pedantic_Hibee
16-12-2012, 02:24 AM
I'm annoyed I'm even posting on this thread to be honest.

Cast your mind back a year, everyone.

Ok, we're two nil up and by virtue of subs/Well/circumstance, we lost the game. Fair enough. But to those lambasting Fenlon, casting aspersions on him and doubting East Mains, players attitudes etc, give yourselves a shake.

We lost, simple as that. We'll get over it, regroup and come back.

This Hibernian team is cut from a different cloth than previous squads and managers.

Erin go Bragh.

Scouse Hibee
16-12-2012, 09:38 AM
Motherwell were better than us, both on and off the pitch.

Mr White
16-12-2012, 09:51 AM
I'm annoyed I'm even posting on this thread to be honest.

Cast your mind back a year, everyone.

Ok, we're two nil up and by virtue of subs/Well/circumstance, we lost the game. Fair enough. But to those lambasting Fenlon, casting aspersions on him and doubting East Mains, players attitudes etc, give yourselves a shake.

We lost, simple as that. We'll get over it, regroup and come back.

This Hibernian team is cut from a different cloth than previous squads and managers.

Erin go Bragh.
:top marks:flag:

500miles
16-12-2012, 10:18 AM
They've had to deal with transition just like us, only, with lower fan expectation, they could afford to lose players, and a bit of form, but Butcher, McGhee, Brown and McCall get time to work with that central body of players, and add one or two of thier own, to keep that team going. Since Mixu got punted, we lost that continuity, and lost that right to a steady transition, with massive overhauls. To be honest, JC deserves stick for where we are, because he started punting players whose faces didn't fit, when we were already facing a destablised team due to the demand for our talented youngsters. That's why, when Mixu came in, he done well to steady the ship he did.
Terry Butcher was allowed to get relegated, add to his team - while not facing a massive overhaul - and steadily progress, back up to the SPL, losing a few players each year, but keeping a backbone to work around and strengthen.
So the answer is, we keep the manager who has shown real progress, use your head before your mouth, and if you can't be bothered waiting to build a successful team, now we're finally on the right track - piss off and watch Man City or some other manufactured success story.

Golden Bear
16-12-2012, 10:34 AM
They've had to deal with transition just like us, only, with lower fan expectation, they could afford to lose players, and a bit of form, but Butcher, McGhee, Brown and McCall get time to work with that central body of players, and add one or two of thier own, to keep that team going. Since Mixu got punted, we lost that continuity, and lost that right to a steady transition, with massive overhauls. To be honest, JC deserves stick for where we are, because he started punting players whose faces didn't fit, when we were already facing a destablised team due to the demand for our talented youngsters. That's why, when Mixu came in, he done well to steady the ship he did.
Terry Butcher was allowed to get relegated, add to his team - while not facing a massive overhaul - and steadily progress, back up to the SPL, losing a few players each year, but keeping a backbone to work around and strengthen.
So the answer is, we keep the manager who has shown real progress, use your head before your mouth, and if you can't be bothered waiting to build a successful team, now we're finally on the right track - piss off and watch Man City or some other manufactured success story.

It's the same old story in so far as if you've got a good group of players then bigger clubs will soon take notice and the better players will gradually be cherry picked and seek richer pickings for themselves. I think the Motherwell team will be decimated with departures over the coming months.

And as for Terry Butcher, then I take my hat off to the guy as he's more or less rebuilt the current squad from scratch with a limited budget. I'm really surprised he's not already been head hunted by a Championship team.

truehibernian
16-12-2012, 11:36 AM
Every side bar Hibs and St Johnstone play with wingers at some point - natural wingers, not attacking midfielders playing wide - and there's a huge difference.

We need natural width and wide men - you see it when Cairney and particularly Spoony pick the ball up. Their natural inclination is to cut inside rather than out, which then becomes telegraphed and teams cover in midfield.

Humphreys, Ojaama, Novikovas, MacKay-Stevens, Shinnie and Doran, young lad that came on for Killie (Johnston ??), Hayes, etc. - all have given Hibs full backs torrid times due to the fact they can really take men on outside, which not only beats a full back but either draws your centre half out, or catches your back line square.

Pat really needs width - I spoke with someone who is close to Erskine and a big Thistle fan, and he 1) says Chris is extremely sweet on a move and 2) would be a really excellent addition. Described him as a wonderfully awkward player, much like Waddle, but who is just wonderful on the ball.

Golden Bear
16-12-2012, 11:40 AM
Every side bar Hibs and St Johnstone play with wingers at some point - natural wingers, not attacking midfielders playing wide - and there's a huge difference.

We need natural width and wide men - you see it when Cairney and particularly Spoony pick the ball up. Their natural inclination is to cut inside rather than out, which then becomes telegraphed and teams cover in midfield.

Humphreys, Ojaama, Novikovas, MacKay-Stevens, Shinnie and Doran, young lad that came on for Killie (Johnston ??), Hayes, etc. - all have given Hibs full backs torrid times due to the fact they can really take men on outside, which not only beats a full back but either draws your centre half out, or catches your back line square.

Pat really needs width - I spoke with someone who is close to Erskine and a big Thistle fan, and he 1) says Chris is extremely sweet on a move and 2) would be a really excellent addition. Described him as a wonderfully awkward player, much like Waddle, but who is just wonderful on the ball.

:agree:

Spoony will never be a winger as such but the one time he did manage to beat the full back on the outside led to our first goal.

Mr White
16-12-2012, 11:53 AM
Erskine sounds decent by all accounts. I wonder if Steven lawless would be worth a look too? Scored a good few goals for thistle and lets face it, he could be an endless source of puns on here and for the headline writers.

truehibernian
16-12-2012, 12:12 PM
Erskine sounds decent by all accounts. I wonder if Steven lawless would be worth a look too? Scored a good few goals for thistle and lets face it, he could be an endless source of puns on here and for the headline writers.

The striker that the guy I've been speaking to about Erskine says he's been very impressed with a striker at Dunfermline, Thomson I think ? Doolan was mentioned but my guy's response was that he's a decent player, scores goals, but not ready for the step up.

Diclonius
16-12-2012, 12:48 PM
It's the same old story in so far as if you've got a good group of players then bigger clubs will soon take notice and the better players will gradually be cherry picked and seek richer pickings for themselves. I think the Motherwell team will be decimated with departures over the coming months.

And as for Terry Butcher, then I take my hat off to the guy as he's more or less rebuilt the current squad from scratch with a limited budget. I'm really surprised he's not already been head hunted by a Championship team.

That's my point - Motherwell are "decimated with departures" every single year, yet somehow sign players just as good at the ones that left. When they're "decimated with departures", they sign some more, get on with it and challenge for Europe. When we're decimated with departures", we whinge and moan about it, our board says we can't sign anyone and we should look forward to the next three consecutive "transitional seasons".

truehibernian
16-12-2012, 12:56 PM
That's my point - Motherwell are "decimated with departures" every single year, yet somehow sign players just as good at the ones that left. When they're "decimated with departures", they sign some more, get on with it and challenge for Europe. When we're decimated with departures", we whinge and moan about it, our board says we can't sign anyone and we should look forward to the next three consecutive "transitional seasons".

Stuart McCall will be the first to tell you that last season they were lucky to have such consistent selection through lack of injury/suspensions. 'Well and certain players also need to take tremendous credit for sticking by the club and not jumping ship at the first sight of cash (Murphy, Humphreys and Ojaama when he signed short term, banged in goals, and signed despite interest).

They've had a solid keeper, pretty solid central pairing with Lasley and Law/Jennings before he left, Hately has been consistent and they have experience in Hammell and Higdon.

It's a footballing model I think Pat will try and emulate but he needs a couple more windows and time.

blackpoolhibs
16-12-2012, 01:29 PM
This is typical Hibs fans, we cant get behind the club when we are doing well and actually for once in a long time punching our weight.

Last season we were as bad as i remember us being, we stayed up by the skin of our teeth with a very poor team. Dunfermline were awful, and even worse than us, in my opinion we got lucky with the pars being that bad.

Now when sitting 4th, and yes if we'd won yesterday we'd have gone 2nd. FFS 2nd after the last few seasons seems miles away, but we ARE only 3 points off that dizzy height.

Yet it appears some would rather point out we are only 10 points from 2nd bottom, rather than look up the way?

I see the old excuse is reappearing again about our fitness, its funny how its not reared its head when we are winning? In fact it was the opposite, we won games by digging in, although now we have lost a couple of games, those games we won have suddenly become lucky wins?

Positivity and confidence plays its part in how the team performs, its not all about how well we play or tactics. We have to put them all together, but as a support we do try and crush any of the thing we can give the team in terms of help out of the equation.

Did we not learn anything from Hughes time in charge?

I understand the question about wingers, and i do think we need 2 for both sides of the team, but Pat did try for a few but failed to get them. He will try again in the next window, and again in the summer.

This is a different side from last seasons, and it will evolve even more over the next few windows, lets not forget that, and lets get behind the team and management, they cant do it without us.

truehibernian
16-12-2012, 02:07 PM
This is typical Hibs fans, we cant get behind the club when we are doing well and actually for once in a long time punching our weight.

Last season we were as bad as i remember us being, we stayed up by the skin of our teeth with a very poor team. Dunfermline were awful, and even worse than us, in my opinion we got lucky with the pars being that bad.

Now when sitting 4th, and yes if we'd won yesterday we'd have gone 2nd. FFS 2nd after the last few seasons seems miles away, but we ARE only 3 points off that dizzy height.

Yet it appears some would rather point out we are only 10 points from 2nd bottom, rather than look up the way?

I see the old excuse is reappearing again about our fitness, its funny how its not reared its head when we are winning? In fact it was the opposite, we won games by digging in, although now we have lost a couple of games, those games we won have suddenly become lucky wins?

Positivity and confidence plays its part in how the team performs, its not all about how well we play or tactics. We have to put them all together, but as a support we do try and crush any of the thing we can give the team in terms of help out of the equation.

Did we not learn anything from Hughes time in charge?

I understand the question about wingers, and i do think we need 2 for both sides of the team, but Pat did try for a few but failed to get them. He will try again in the next window, and again in the summer.

This is a different side from last seasons, and it will evolve even more over the next few windows, lets not forget that, and lets get behind the team and management, they cant do it without us.

Hence he needs two or three windows to really cement his authority on the side.

Once we shed Galbraith, Sproule, Kuqi and maybe a couple of youngsters, I'd say Pat knows we need width and a little bit creativity. But in the short to middle term it's clear out deficiencies are at the back. Full backs are being targeted so our midfield need to work more, to track and close.

blackpoolhibs
16-12-2012, 02:30 PM
Hence he needs two or three windows to really cement his authority on the side.

Once we shed Galbraith, Sproule, Kuqi and maybe a couple of youngsters, I'd say Pat knows we need width and a little bit creativity. But in the short to middle term it's clear out deficiencies are at the back. Full backs are being targeted so our midfield need to work more, to track and close.

:agree: Work in progress as they say, and a team thats clearly getting better and giving us results we would have killed fo last season needs us the fans to get right behind them. Folk question Petrie for doing enough, i'd say he's given every manager the tools to do everything Motherwell or Inverness have done and more.

Where he's been wrong is who he's appointed in the managers chair, now we seem to have the right man in place, are we as supporters doing enough, are we doing our part in supporting the club/team

NewHibby
16-12-2012, 03:23 PM
Operate on a shoestring budget, attract crowd income of 5k, have to cut costs almost every single year and regularly lose half their team, if not their manager.

Yet every season they put in a strong challenge for Europe - qualifying more often than not, have finished well above us 3 out of the last five seasons, and consistently sign quality players on free transfers and low wages seemingly out of nowhere.

Why can't we do that?

Because we have a pussy culture which runs throughout our club...we must be the most accepting, dumbed down club in Scotland!

blackpoolhibs
16-12-2012, 03:37 PM
Because we have a pussy culture which runs throughout our club...we must be the most accepting, dumbed down club in Scotland!

What position do you need to finish for a european place these days?

NorthNorfolkHFC
16-12-2012, 03:44 PM
How people can blame Petrie for today is beyond me! :confused:
Petrie has nothing to do with what happened today, or with anything else that goes on on the pitch.
Loosen the purse strings? What do we expect to come out of said purse? THERE'S NOTHING IN IT FFS!!! :rolleyes:
We want to keep the likes of Griffiths and McGivern etc, and yet only 8800 turn up for a game that, had we won, would have taken us to 2nd.
I feel the "Hibs culture" is slowly but surely creeping back into the squad. Wonder what time tonight the Tweets and "squad bonding" pics will start? We can't stop the guys having nights out etc, but I think they need to have a good long hard look at themselves!

It's not RP's fault. It's not even down to fans not turning up as Motherwell, st Johnstone and ICT all have lower gates yet they attract better more committed players.
Why did we go for Kuqi when Sheridan was available? Why are we not trying to get quality midfielders such as Davidson.

markom127
16-12-2012, 04:01 PM
People who say fans need to pump money into the club should look at this,

In the last two seasons we've finished 11th and 10th. No doubt that would bring **** all in terms of prize money.

So if we finish top 4 or 5, which is a real possibly and probability then we'll get more prize money to spend on players. Im not looking at this season, im looking at how PF and RP are trying to stabilise our club. After that we should be challenging for Europe every season and bringing the youth players through like Booth, Stanton, Handling, Caldwell.

Hibs lose key players every year. We lost GOC last year and look at us now. Hibs find players from everywhere and quite a lot seem to be half decent.

And a side note, I think Hibs should play a back 3 (Trust me). Hanlon, McGivern, McPake. Then Clancy and Stevenson wing backs, Claros, Wortherspoon, Cairney, Griffiths, Doyle. :aok:

Golden Bear
16-12-2012, 04:47 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining as they say.

After seeing Motherwell in action yesterday, we're definitely better off facing Aberdeen in the Scottish Cup!

Sir David Gray
16-12-2012, 05:18 PM
What position do you need to finish for a european place these days?

Either finish in the top 3 or win the Scottish Cup.

Craig_in_Prague
16-12-2012, 05:29 PM
Either finish in the top 3 or win the Scottish Cup.

Both of which, Hibs have a knack of doing :-)

blackpoolhibs
16-12-2012, 05:38 PM
Both of which, Hibs have a knack of doing :-)

:greengrin

InterviewLoI
16-12-2012, 09:30 PM
Interviews with Doyle and Taiwo! Thanks so much for anyone who came up to me on the day and I hope that this bad run ends soon!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sJzz5C4Pag

NewHibby
16-12-2012, 11:02 PM
People who say fans need to pump money into the club should look at this,

In the last two seasons we've finished 11th and 10th. No doubt that would bring **** all in terms of prize money.

So if we finish top 4 or 5, which is a real possibly and probability then we'll get more prize money to spend on players. Im not looking at this season, im looking at how PF and RP are trying to stabilise our club. After that we should be challenging for Europe every season and bringing the youth players through like Booth, Stanton, Handling, Caldwell.

Hibs lose key players every year. We lost GOC last year and look at us now. Hibs find players from everywhere and quite a lot seem to be half decent.

And a side note, I think Hibs should play a back 3 (Trust me). Hanlon, McGivern, McPake. Then Clancy and Stevenson wing backs, Claros, Wortherspoon, Cairney, Griffiths, Doyle. :aok:

The only trouble with this is that we don't invest in our main product, which is football!

basehibby
17-12-2012, 12:51 AM
The only trouble with this is that we don't invest in our main product, which is football!

That has certainly been the case over the last 10-12 years or so, but the infrastructure is all in place now. It's my opinion that part of the strategic plan should have been (should be?) to pump a bit of cash into the football team to try and invigorate the support and fill up these shiny new stands.

That does not seem to have been part of the plan, unless of course Petrie and co have been waiting for a managerial horse that proves himself to be worth the gamble. I certainly hope that to be the case as it makes sense to me that if you're going to spend money on a lovely big theatre then it's well worth going the extra mile to bring in some acts the punters are going to want to queue up for.

Fenlon has done a lot to prove that he could be that elusive horse and I'd like to see him backed well enough to at least keep his team together and hopefully an addition or two in Jan. If he does well with that backing then back him PROPERLY in the summer! You never know - he might just bring in a few gems...

Part/Time Supporter
17-12-2012, 10:30 AM
Inverness have a whole new team!

Complete nonsense. They've changed most of the defence and the goalkeeper (and only after the established keeper was injured). The rest of their team (including most of the better players, ie Doran, Foran, Shinnie, Mackay) is basically the same as last season.

Part/Time Supporter
17-12-2012, 10:33 AM
That's my point - Motherwell are "decimated with departures" every single year, yet somehow sign players just as good at the ones that left. When they're "decimated with departures", they sign some more, get on with it and challenge for Europe. When we're decimated with departures", we whinge and moan about it, our board says we can't sign anyone and we should look forward to the next three consecutive "transitional seasons".

That isn't true. Motherwell have pretty much kept the same core of their team for the last 2-3 seasons. Randolph in goal, Law / Lasley in midfield, Humphrey / Murphy wide, Higdon CF. The major loss they've had is the retirement of Craigan and their defence has been more inconsistent this season.

BTW their team is likely to fall apart in the next six months as most of the names above are out of contract. And they won't have the resources to replace them adequately, because they lost >£500K last year despite finishing third.

Russell The Dug
17-12-2012, 10:34 AM
Complete nonsense. They've changed most of the defence and the goalkeeper (and only after the established keeper was injured). The rest of their team is basically the same as last season.


How is it complete nonsense? The majority of there side is new from last season.

Yet Hibs still have Hanlon, McPake, Wotherspoon, Stevenson, Claros, Griffiths and Doyle from last season and it's been hailed as a brand new side? :confused:

Sir David Gray
17-12-2012, 10:16 PM
How is it complete nonsense? The majority of there side is new from last season.

Yet Hibs still have Hanlon, McPake, Wotherspoon, Stevenson, Claros, Griffiths and Doyle from last season and it's been hailed as a brand new side? :confused:

On Saturday, only 4 of the players that started for Inverness were signed since the end of last season.

You're correct to say that 6 of our players that started on Saturday were with the club last season but out of all the SPL sides on Saturday, only St Johnstone fielded more new players than us.

Motherwell, for example, started with an entire team that were with them last season.

Fergus52
17-12-2012, 10:38 PM
Anything that doesn't work is usually described as a work in progress.

Virtually every game at ER this season, we've been hanging on for a significant part of the game, and, IMHO, been lucky. There is no mental toughness in the team.

Kenny Shiels doesn't see us as being any better than last season, just luckier; he has a point.

Our 3 most consistent performers this season are all on loan and will most likely be off in January.

Virtually every other player has suffered from some serious criticism on this forum this season.

It really, really isn't much of a work in progress.

"We are Hibernian FC, we're a work in progress" ... it's a crap song.

The statement in bold means nothing

clerriehibs
17-12-2012, 11:07 PM
The statement in bold means nothing

There's no such thing as a meaningful opinion posted on a fans' forum, but we all do it, eh? :aok:

ahibby
18-12-2012, 09:29 AM
Inverness have a whole new team!

Yes and they were the first team in the SPL to get together as a whole. None of them waiting until the last minute to see who they could get. It was all done early in the close season. Hats of to them, Butcher's strategy is showing dividends. I don't know if they can keep it up for the full season but time will tell.

Stevie Reid
18-12-2012, 12:44 PM
How do you know he hasn't?

I've read some amount of drivel on this thread its unreal.

We got be and we are on the inevitable bed run that inverness, well, aberdeen, utd have all been through, so what? We need to remember where we have come from and where we are at and appreciate the progress that's been made. Yes pats made mistakes, subs today for one but let's not go OTT.

Well won and on there second half performance deserved it, give credit where its due.

We are a work in progress, expect the knocks and roll with the punches.

Well said mate.

Let's not forget that Motherwell came out of an administration very well and with no football punishment at all - the following year they finished bottom of the SPL and yet couldn't be relegated due to the fact that Falkirk's stadium didn't meet the SPL criteria. Last year, the 10 point penalty that Rangers were hit with due to entering administration ensured that Motherwell took a Champions League spot for finishing 3rd in the SPL, which gave them a financial boost at a crucial time. So some very big slices of luck have played a big part in where they are now.

However, on top of that luck they have (in a similar way to Swansea recently) appointed managers to a certain criteria (none of the managers that John Boyle has appointed have ever worked in the SPL before, as far as I know) and with a great deal of relevant contacts, and they have utilised the free transfer market very well indeed. That, allied with a good youth system, has seen them flourish continually despite constantly losing their managers and their best players.

southsider
18-12-2012, 01:02 PM
That isn't true. Motherwell have pretty much kept the same core of their team for the last 2-3 seasons. Randolph in goal, Law / Lasley in midfield, Humphrey / Murphy wide, Higdon CF. The major loss they've had is the retirement of Craigan and their defence has been more inconsistent this season.

BTW their team is likely to fall apart in the next six months as most of the names above are out of contract. And they won't have the resources to replace them adequately, because they lost >£500K last year despite finishing third.

I heard Motherwell are going to go part-time from next season. I hope it is not true but if it is then we should be in for Higdon & Humphrey and Nicky Law too. We cant afford Murphy.

Part/Time Supporter
18-12-2012, 10:07 PM
Lech Poznan are apparently going to buy Ojamaa for 200,000 Euro.

http://www.poznan.sport.pl/sport-poznan/1,124479,13075298,Lech_Poznan_kupil_reprezentanta_ Estonii__Szkoci_potwierdzaja.html

Pete
18-12-2012, 11:30 PM
How do you know he hasn't?
I know he hasn't because he has said he hasn't in several interviews. He said things like "That's history" and "no point in looking back".
I think you can have that attitude if you are a fan but it strikes me as a little arrogant to have that attitude when you are a young manager who was on the end of a result like that. If you want to be the best you have to face up to your mistakes and learn from them. Top managers down south like AVB, Allardyce or Martinez would have watched that match again, looking at where they went wrong, who let them down and the other teams strengths and managers moves. Fergie would probably make his team watch it every week, regardless of personnel, reminding them of the lows that must never be reached again by anyone under his management.
People might disagree with me but Pat not watching the final again is a bit of an issue I have but I hope it's just his way of dealing with it and he cares as much as we all do.




I've read some amount of drivel on this thread its unreal.

We got be and we are on the inevitable bed run that inverness, well, aberdeen, utd have all been through, so what? We need to remember where we have come from and where we are at and appreciate the progress that's been made. Yes pats made mistakes, subs today for one but let's not go OTT.

Well won and on there second half performance deserved it, give credit where its due.

We are a work in progress, expect the knocks and roll with the punches.

I totally agree about the OTT reactions but I don't believe mine was one of them. After last season I'm not entertaining anyone who doesn't care, fannys about or doesn't give 100% and that goes for any player or coach. Three years of crap on and off the park are enough for anyone but almost getting relegated and getting hammered in that match have hardened my attitude. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same and it certainly isn't unreasonable...it's almost making up for the collective "soft-touch" culture we have had for too long.

Only a fool wouldn't appreciate the progress that's been made and a lot of the credit must go to the board and the management. Players with determination and desire have been brought in and it's been a refreshing change, proving that they listen and share our concerns and hurt.
I think we all knew there was a major job to be done changing the attitude and culture whilst striving for results on the park and I'm actually pleasantly surprised at how things have turned around fairly quickly and Pat must take great credit for that. I do think he gets too much stick for his decisions and there are far too many amateur football managers out there with PHD's in hindsight, ready to criticize every substitution.

One thing I am not having is "bad runs". "Bad runs" happen when you are outplayed continuously by the opposition and that should not happen if you have the right attitude and everyone, to a man, is giving their all within a good set-up. The Aberdeen and Dundee games were exceptions but the other games we lost recently have been down to either poor mental attitude, poor effort, poor tactics or a combination of all three. We collapsed against Motherwell and we weren't even on the same park as Inverness. Even the games we won...we were bullied again by Hearts and were outplayed by a well organised but unspectacular St. Johnstone.
Again, progress has been made and we have shown that we are a different animal but we must guard against complacency and letting the players believe their own press. The worst case scenario would be for the old "George Street spice boys" culture to develop again.

I think showing genuine concern at bad results and asking questions is the happy medium between jumping on people at the slightest hint and saying "ach well, it's better than last year". I'll admit that at times it's been hard to find but I think the vast majority of the crowd appreciate the progress and know the difference between constructive criticism and moaning for the sake of it from the stands.

yeezus.
19-12-2012, 03:07 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining as they say.

After seeing Motherwell in action yesterday, we're definitely better off facing Aberdeen in the Scottish Cup!

I would have preferred Motherwell to be honest. Aberdeen have reached the semi final two years in a row with a ***** team,defeated us twice this season and will be looking for revenge from last years semi final loss.

I reckon the winner of our tie will go on to the final.