Ffs!

[Hibbyradge]

Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, a Baptist minister and 2008 Republican presidential hopeful said:

"We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools.

Should we be surprised that schools would become places of carnage?"

:grr:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Considering the thousands of children killed in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Gaza etc - I think they can point to the lack of god in schools as the reason the death toll is so low.

[VickMackie]

The more I hear of these American religious nuts the more it worries the **** out of you that these ****ing idiots hold so much power an ld influence.

[Geo_1875]

Are American religious nuts especially dangerous?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Are American religious nuts especially dangerous?

Only if you are allergic to them.

[(((Fergus)))]

Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, a Baptist minister and 2008 Republican presidential hopeful said:

"We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools.

Should we be surprised that schools would become places of carnage?"

:grr:

His logic might be that if you fear God, and view other people as creatures made in the image of God, then you will not be inclined to kill them (unless you have good reason, i.e. self-defence). Not that forcing "God" into the classroom would change that - the classroom only reflects what is happening at home.


Considering the thousands of children killed in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Gaza etc - I think they can point to the lack of god in schools as the reason the death toll is so low.

Perhaps the people doing the killing in those places, despite appearances, are actually God-less too?

[Phil D. Rolls]

His logic might be that if you fear God, and view other people as creatures made in the image of God, then you will not be inclined to kill them (unless you have good reason, i.e. self-defence). Not that forcing "God" into the classroom would change that - the classroom only reflects what is happening at home.



Perhaps the people doing the killing in those places, despite appearances, are actually God-less too?

Yet they still kill in God's name.

[heretoday]

I bet Huckabee's got a shotgun leaning by the front door.

[Twa Cairpets]

There's been a few similar calls from the Right Wing in the USA along the lines of "What do you expect if we take God out of the schools"?

I do think these wingnuts have massively missed the mood in the US, and will serve solely, I hope, to marginalise their extremism. I don't for a minute believe this is the view of mainstream Christianity in the US, who view this is a human tragedy first and foremost.

[Jack]

Considering the thousands of children killed in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Gaza etc - I think they can point to the lack of god in schools as the reason the death toll is so low.

I think its only fair you reference this.

[VickMackie]

Are American religious nuts especially dangerous?

They are when you consider they're potentially going to be in charge of a 1st world country with influence over the whole world, the economy, wars, education etc etc

[Pretty Boy]

It's really all about timing and sensitivity isn't it?

If Huckabee truly believes that increased religous influence in schools would have helped avoid tragedies such as this one or Columbine then he's entitled to that opinion. If he can provide evidence to prove that increased religous influence would help avoid this I'm sure people would love to read it.

However perhaps the more Christian thing to do in this instance would have been to show a bit compassion and to express his sympathies to the families, friends and extended community affected by this.

This just cries out crass political opportunism to me and he should really be ashamed of himself.

[heretoday]

What perplexes me is those members of the gun lobby who don't see easy availability of guns as the problem but rather the mental health of those who commit these atrocities. The fault lies in lack of resources devoted to catching and curing mentalists before they go ballistic.

Some of those opinions were coming from Brits on the radio today. Presumably they think it would be fine if we in the UK relaxed our own laws on guns provided we pour more money into dealing with mental health issues.

Aye right.

[Hibbyradge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmwBPsB0oaE&feature=share

[HibsMax]

There's been a few similar calls from the Right Wing in the USA along the lines of "What do you expect if we take God out of the schools"?

I do think these wingnuts have massively missed the mood in the US, and will serve solely, I hope, to marginalise their extremism. I don't for a minute believe this is the view of mainstream Christianity in the US, who view this is a human tragedy first and foremost.

I read a comment on a Yahoo news article and the person, male I think but it doesn't matter, basically said in response to "Why did God let this happen?" with, "Because God was expelled from schools". I'm paraphrasing but that is the gist. Seriously? I thought God was omnipotent yet he can't prevent the murder of 26 people because prayer, etc. has been banned from the classroom? For a being that created the entire universe I see this as gross failing.

This happened because some little prick got upset over something and decided to take out his anger in the most cowardly way I can think of.

[HibsMax]

What perplexes me is those members of the gun lobby who don't see easy availability of guns as the problem but rather the mental health of those who commit these atrocities. The fault lies in lack of resources devoted to catching and curing mentalists before they go ballistic.

Some of those opinions were coming from Brits on the radio today. Presumably they think it would be fine if we in the UK relaxed our own laws on guns provided we pour more money into dealing with mental health issues.

Aye right.

I wouldn't say I am in the gun lobby (I don't even own a gun) but I am one of those people who say the problem is with the individual rather than the weapon. Of course it is. If the killers had mental issues which were diagnosed and treated accordingly then they wouldn't have the impulse to kill in the first place. Having "easy" access to guns gives them the tool(s) to carry out their plan but the plan comes first. Maybe you can show me that I am wrong but I personally do not believe that someone gets access to guns and then decides to go and kill a bunch of people. If I really wanted to, I could get my hands on a gun or two but there is not a single ounce of my being that wants to exploit that and start shooting people.

These mass shootings are a combination of two different problems. You have a person who has a mental illness (problem 1) and they have easy access to guns (problem 2). If we want to prevent mass shootings happening in the future then we need to come together and accept that there are two problems and dealing with just one of them isn't going to be the answer. You can say it's too many guns, I can say it's mental illness...and we're both right (not that this is an argument - I think that fundamentally we're all on the same side).

[hibby rae]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/arm-teachers-say-unspeakable-pieces-of-****-2012121753763

I'd say this hits the nail on the head.

[VickMackie]

I wouldn't say I am in the gun lobby (I don't even own a gun) but I am one of those people who say the problem is with the individual rather than the weapon. Of course it is. If the killers had mental issues which were diagnosed and treated accordingly then they wouldn't have the impulse to kill in the first place. Having "easy" access to guns gives them the tool(s) to carry out their plan but the plan comes first. Maybe you can show me that I am wrong but I personally do not believe that someone gets access to guns and then decides to go and kill a bunch of people. If I really wanted to, I could get my hands on a gun or two but there is not a single ounce of my being that wants to exploit that and start shooting people.

These mass shootings are a combination of two different problems. You have a person who has a mental illness (problem 1) and they have easy access to guns (problem 2). If we want to prevent mass shootings happening in the future then we need to come together and accept that there are two problems and dealing with just one of them isn't going to be the answer. You can say it's too many guns, I can say it's mental illness...and we're both right (not that this is an argument - I think that fundamentally we're all on the same side).

The thing is there will always be mentally ill people and you can't always 'catch' them before they become ill.

However, if those mentally ill, or perfectly stable minded people, have easy access to guns then they're more likely to shoot people.

I've been in a situation where someone tried to stab me (because of their drunken paranoia) and I'll tell you now if I had a gun that night (I was pissed) I would have shot them. Thankfully I didn't.

I've no doubt that in accessibility to guns in this country makes things a lot safer for all of us.

[Matty_Jack04]

There's a lot of focus on the treatment these people are receiving for there mental health issues, there is very worrying figures on the side effects being reported after using or withdrawing from prescription drugs mostly of violent tendencies, obviously the easy availability of firearms is the real problem but maybe the investigation shouldn't stop there, I seem to remember a young lad flying a light aircraft into a building after 9/11 being blamed on medication he was taking its maybe a worthwhile inquiry

[HibsMax]

The thing is there will always be mentally ill people and you can't always 'catch' them before they become ill.

However, if those mentally ill, or perfectly stable minded people, have easy access to guns then they're more likely to shoot people.

I've been in a situation where someone tried to stab me (because of their drunken paranoia) and I'll tell you now if I had a gun that night (I was pissed) I would have shot them. Thankfully I didn't.

I've no doubt that in accessibility to guns in this country makes things a lot safer for all of us.

Agree and disagree. Having easy access to guns will not make someone more likely to shoot someone. I know the point you're making, I just disagree in part. You could argue that if there were no guns then there would be no shooting. That's kinda obvious. But we don't live in a world without guns and we aren't likely to any time soon so we have to accept that. I don't mean accept it because the NRA says so. I say we have to because the task of getting the guns off the streets is as close impossible ad you can get.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Stating the obvious : Lets talk about it for a few months , end.
When is that country going to wake up ? Never i fear because the gun is more important than some kids for the majority of them, ten years down the line from now and it will be the same.

Its been spoken/debated that the gun is embedded in their culture so far it would be hard to remove, europeans have been around for a lot longer and we do it.

Is it a simple case of the USA not being as civilised or not being civilised at all ?

[HibsMax]

Stating the obvious : Lets talk about it for a few months , end.
When is that country going to wake up ? Never i fear because the gun is more important than some kids for the majority of them, ten years down the line from now and it will be the same.

Its been spoken/debated that the gun is embedded in their culture so far it would be hard to remove, europeans have been around for a lot longer and we do it.

Is it a simple case of the USA not being as civilised or not being civilised at all ?

No, guns are not more important than a child's life. I doubt that ridiculous statement is even true for a tiny minority, never mind the majority as you state.

This has nothing to do with civilization.

[stoneyburn hibs]

No, guns are not more important than a child's life. I doubt that ridiculous statement is even true for a tiny minority, never mind the majority as you state.

This has nothing to do with civilization.

I am willing to wager you that in 10 years from now and numerous mass killings later that nothing will have really changed with regards to gun laws in the US , maybe a slight appeasement but that will be about it. Hope im way of the mark but dont think i will be.

[The Green Goblin]

An interesting stat here. (Attached)

[Hibrandenburg]

That must be quite old due to there not being a West Germany for some years now.

[The Green Goblin]

That must be quite old due to there not being a West Germany for some years now.

Indeed. I noticed that too. It would be interesting to compare more modern stats. I think michael moore had some similar stats in "Bowling for Columbine".