Media Pundits - Being open about club allegiance

[The Sea-gull]

Please don't merge this with the Jim Traynor thread as this is a wee bit different.

In the wake of Jim Traynor's announced new job and all the comments about "well he is only confirming what we all knew" etc, it has got me thinking that we don't really get to know what teams journos support due to their need to preserve neutrality in their coverage. They certainly don't seem to be able to admit to being an old firm fan. Sad little element of Scottish society really and can't blame Traynor and others for staying in the closet.

Even the ones who do declare an allegiance, it is always to lesser teams alla Chick Young and Bill Leckie with St Mirren. Both of them may well be real St Mirren fans but it hasn't stopped the intense speculation and comments particulalry with Young, about who their real team/big team is. Traynor of course famously did this by saying he is an Airdrie fan. He may well indeed be an Airdrie fan.

Broadcast media is a wee bit different as we all know Richard Gordon is an Aberdeen fan, Blobbo and Preston are Yams, Craig Patterson (though I have never heard him admit it) is thought of as a Hibby, Tam Cowan is a Well fan, Stuart Cosgrove St Johnstone, Jim Spence Dundee Utd etc.

Something to touch on though is that nobody seems to be willing/permitted to nail themselves to one of the old firm. We all assume that Billy Dodds and Derek Fergison are Huns but they never admit it. We all assume that Murdo Macleod is a big Celtic fan but he never really fully endorses it. Does our media prevent this? Do these guys just not want the hassle beacuse of our society?

You would expect that everyone who covers football in the media is a fan of football and therefore a fan of a team. What is wrong with, moreso on the radio where discussions take place than in the press, everyone freely admitting who they support.

These BBC media types seem to be quite happy to admitting they support St Mirren (Dougie Vipond another Saints fan), Airdrie, Motherwell, Clyde etc but nobody seems willing or able to say "I am a Rangers fan" or "I am a Celtic fan". Not a new thing this but if we are trying to move away from biggotry then maybe a wee bit more transparency would help.

[JohnStephens91]

If someone comes out and says 'I support Celtic' he will become the target of abuse from Newco fans and vice versa. If the veil stays up it creates a lot more interest and increases the readership as the paranoid masses decide to call someone like Graham Spiers a 'hun' or 'a rebel' depending on what he has said this week. The problem isn't as bad with Hibs and Hearts, I think Ewan Murray makes it clear he is a Hearts fan and Kenny Millar is a Hibee too and open about it but neither get hit with proper stick for it like an openly Celtic/The Rangers supporter in the media would. It's better for the individual to never say what his allegiance is for the vitriol they would endure and it is better for newspapers and websites that it doesn't happen in terms of readership.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Please don't merge this with the Jim Traynor thread as this is a wee bit different.

In the wake of Jim Traynor's announced new job and all the comments about "well he is only confirming what we all knew" etc, it has got me thinking that we don't really get to know what teams journos support due to their need to preserve neutrality in their coverage. They certainly don't seem to be able to admit to being an old firm fan. Sad little element of Scottish society really and can't blame Traynor and others for staying in the closet.

Even the ones who do declare an allegiance, it is always to lesser teams alla Chick Young and Bill Leckie with St Mirren. Both of them may well be real St Mirren fans but it hasn't stopped the intense speculation and comments particulalry with Young, about who their real team/big team is. Traynor of course famously did this by saying he is an Airdrie fan. He may well indeed be an Airdrie fan.

Broadcast media is a wee bit different as we all know Richard Gordon is an Aberdeen fan, Blobbo and Preston are Yams, Craig Patterson (though I have never heard him admit it) is thought of as a Hibby, Tam Cowan is a Well fan, Stuart Cosgrove St Johnstone, Jim Spence Dundee Utd etc.

Something to touch on though is that nobody seems to be willing/permitted to nail themselves to one of the old firm. We all assume that Billy Dodds and Derek Fergison are Huns but they never admit it. We all assume that Murdo Macleod is a big Celtic fan but he never really fully endorses it. Does our media prevent this? Do these guys just not want the hassle beacuse of our society?

You would expect that everyone who covers football in the media is a fan of football and therefore a fan of a team. What is wrong with, moreso on the radio where discussions take place than in the press, everyone freely admitting who they support.

These BBC media types seem to be quite happy to admitting they support St Mirren (Dougie Vipond another Saints fan), Airdrie, Motherwell, Clyde etc but nobody seems willing or able to say "I am a Rangers fan" or "I am a Celtic fan". Not a new thing this but if we are trying to move away from biggotry then maybe a wee bit more transparency would help.

Interesting question. You can hardly blame people for not admitting they support the OF, when managers get bullets through the post, and referees get their windows tanned.

Personally, I think it doesn't matter what team a journalist supports. We should take what they write at face value. If their reporting is good and insightful their own personal biases will hardly matter.

Nick Robinson, the BBC's political reporter stood as a Tory candidate, I can't say it comes through in his work though. Likewise, Matthew Paris, a guy that was in Thatcher's cabinet, has my respect for the way he writes about social issues.

I think the real change has to happen in the readers and viewers. They need to get a sense of maturity and stop overeacting every time someone says something about their team they don't like.

I think this season, things have started to go too far, and too many twisted little men and women, are using complaints about - well whatever they can find - to compensate for their own feelings of impotence. The Zombie Huns banner, the special cop at Easter Road etc. Quite saddening, and it's time that people started to remember it's only a game.

Maybe if Murdo McLeod was able to be more open about his allegiances, he'd be a more interesting pundit. My gripe isn't that he is a Celtic fan, but that he tells us absolutely nothing when he is asked a question, despite being paid for his superior knowledge of the game.

People are starting to take things too seriously, IMO. The reason that journalists didn't report the SEVCO thing properly wasn't that they were fans, but that they relied on Rangers for privilege. Those guys weren't caring whether the team won or lost, they were worried about missing out on one of David Murray's parties.

[Frazerbob]

Please don't merge this with the Jim Traynor thread as this is a wee bit different.

In the wake of Jim Traynor's announced new job and all the comments about "well he is only confirming what we all knew" etc, it has got me thinking that we don't really get to know what teams journos support due to their need to preserve neutrality in their coverage. They certainly don't seem to be able to admit to being an old firm fan. Sad little element of Scottish society really and can't blame Traynor and others for staying in the closet.

Even the ones who do declare an allegiance, it is always to lesser teams alla Chick Young and Bill Leckie with St Mirren. Both of them may well be real St Mirren fans but it hasn't stopped the intense speculation and comments particulalry with Young, about who their real team/big team is. Traynor of course famously did this by saying he is an Airdrie fan. He may well indeed be an Airdrie fan.

Broadcast media is a wee bit different as we all know Richard Gordon is an Aberdeen fan, Blobbo and Preston are Yams, Craig Patterson (though I have never heard him admit it) is thought of as a Hibby, Tam Cowan is a Well fan, Stuart Cosgrove St Johnstone, Jim Spence Dundee Utd etc.

Something to touch on though is that nobody seems to be willing/permitted to nail themselves to one of the old firm. We all assume that Billy Dodds and Derek Fergison are Huns but they never admit it. We all assume that Murdo Macleod is a big Celtic fan but he never really fully endorses it. Does our media prevent this? Do these guys just not want the hassle beacuse of our society?

You would expect that everyone who covers football in the media is a fan of football and therefore a fan of a team. What is wrong with, moreso on the radio where discussions take place than in the press, everyone freely admitting who they support.

These BBC media types seem to be quite happy to admitting they support St Mirren (Dougie Vipond another Saints fan), Airdrie, Motherwell, Clyde etc but nobody seems willing or able to say "I am a Rangers fan" or "I am a Celtic fan". Not a new thing this but if we are trying to move away from biggotry then maybe a wee bit more transparency would help.

Derek Ferguson is a Hamilton Accies fan (his laddie is a ST holder) and I think Dodds is an Ayr Utd fan, although both obviously have leanings towards The Rangers.

[Bighoose]

You would have to separate Media Pundits between ex-players and journo's/commentators. Most ex-players are going to root for their old teams and pals who they played with. And I dont see how you could argue against that.

E.g Billy Dodds said last season that he wanted Dunfermline to stay up before Hibs for no other reason than he was great pals with Jim McIntyre (unsure of his opinion once FJK took over).

Of the journo's, again you probably have to distinguish between those who work for Red Tops over the broadsheets. Speirs and Roddy Forsyth have never hidden their support for Rangers from youth. Where as Tranyor, Young and Leckie just make a poor attempt to be impartial.

On the same tack, I very rarely read the Daily Record but have always thought of it as a Rangers biased paper, but then all you hear is Rangers fans saying its nowt but a Celtic mouthpiece?

[BroxburnHibee]

You should listen to the Sportsound podcast from the end of the derby - Craig Paterson doesn't hide his allegiance at all.

[JeMeSouviens]

The other thing to remember is that having a "big team", ie. one of the OF, is actually pretty common for supporters of diddy clubs through in the west. I used to work beside an Ayr fan who went home and away but also possessed a number of Celtic videos and would be leaping up and down in the pub if we were out watching one of their european or OF games. One of my neighbours supports Motherwell but lets closet Hunnish comments escape at times. They find it difficult to accept fans of other clubs with no leanings to either.

So Chick, Leckie, Dougie Donnelly etc aren't necessarily lying about St Mirren or Clyde or whoever, they're just not being completely open.

btw, I've heard Derek Ferguson openly admitting Hunnism on the radio (he could hardly deny it) in the context that his in-laws are Celtic fans. Also, I think Murder McLeod was a boyhood Hun who went on to develop ex-player feelings for Celtic, similar to Kenny Dalglish and Danny McGrain.

[Golden Bear]

Pat Nevin is a self confessed Hibee albeit a latter day convert.

[Hibercelona]

An OF fan (pundit or not) doesn't need to tell you that they're one. You just know that they are....

[Diclonius]

The other thing to remember is that having a "big team", ie. one of the OF, is actually pretty common for supporters of diddy clubs through in the west. I used to work beside an Ayr fan who went home and away but also possessed a number of Celtic videos and would be leaping up and down in the pub if we were out watching one of their european or OF games. One of my neighbours supports Motherwell but lets closet Hunnish comments escape at times. They find it difficult to accept fans of other clubs with no leanings to either.

So Chick, Leckie, Dougie Donnelly etc aren't necessarily lying about St Mirren or Clyde or whoever, they're just not being completely open.

btw, I've heard Derek Ferguson openly admitting Hunnism on the radio (he could hardly deny it) in the context that his in-laws are Celtic fans. Also, I think Murder McLeod was a boyhood Hun who went on to develop ex-player feelings for Celtic, similar to Kenny Dalglish and Danny McGrain.

Correct. McLeod supported Rangers before he signed for Celtic.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Bill Leckie is indeed a St.Mirren fan is no fan of the old firm. I mix in Buddies circles plus he wrote a decent book on Saints, growing up as a fan and why the old firm led SPL killed Scottish fitba.
Murdo Mcleod and his brothers were all Gers fans when growing up in Dumbarton. Like King Kenny and Danny Mcgrain before him he was taken in by the Celtic family and they found a home. For some reason it has always been easier for gers fans to switch than the other way around? Neil McCann was a Celtic boy in Greenock but is now a hun, hes the only one i can think of.

[HibeeBigFly]

Derek Ferguson is a Hamilton Accies fan (his laddie is a ST holder) and I think Dodds is an Ayr Utd fan, although both obviously have leanings towards The Rangers.

Dodds is a St Johnstone fan, has a tattoo of the emblem on his leg.

[flash]

The other thing to remember is that having a "big team", ie. one of the OF, is actually pretty common for supporters of diddy clubs through in the west. I used to work beside an Ayr fan who went home and away but also possessed a number of Celtic videos and would be leaping up and down in the pub if we were out watching one of their european or OF games. One of my neighbours supports Motherwell but lets closet Hunnish comments escape at times. They find it difficult to accept fans of other clubs with no leanings to either.


Nothing personal but i have found exactly the opposite to be the case. Fans of St Mirren, Motherwell, Killie etc hate the Old Firm far more than we do for the simple reason that they lose so many potential fans to them.

It's a constant source of embarrassment to hear Hibs fans accusing fans of the above clubs of following one half or other of the forces of darkness.

[clerriehibs]

Interesting question. You can hardly blame people for not admitting they support the OF, when managers get bullets through the post, and referees get their windows tanned.

Personally, I think it doesn't matter what team a journalist supports. We should take what they write at face value. If their reporting is good and insightful their own personal biases will hardly matter.

Nick Robinson, the BBC's political reporter stood as a Tory candidate, I can't say it comes through in his work though. Likewise, Matthew Paris, a guy that was in Thatcher's cabinet, has my respect for the way he writes about social issues.

I think the real change has to happen in the readers and viewers. They need to get a sense of maturity and stop overeacting every time someone says something about their team they don't like.

I think this season, things have started to go too far, and too many twisted little men and women, are using complaints about - well whatever they can find - to compensate for their own feelings of impotence. The Zombie Huns banner, the special cop at Easter Road etc. Quite saddening, and it's time that people started to remember it's only a game.

Maybe if Murdo McLeod was able to be more open about his allegiances, he'd be a more interesting pundit. My gripe isn't that he is a Celtic fan, but that he tells us absolutely nothing when he is asked a question, despite being paid for his superior knowledge of the game.

People are starting to take things too seriously, IMO. The reason that journalists didn't report the SEVCO thing properly wasn't that they were fans, but that they relied on Rangers for privilege. Those guys weren't


caring whether the team won or lost, they were worried about missing


out on one of David Murray's parties.

I' d absolutely disagree re robinson. If you'd said andrew marr, who has the opposite allegiance, i'd have been with you.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Nothing personal but i have found exactly the opposite to be the case. Fans of St Mirren, Motherwell, Killie etc hate the Old Firm far more than we do for the simple reason that they lose so many potential fans to them.

It's a constant source of embarrassment to hear Hibs fans accusing fans of the above clubs of following one half or other of the forces of darkness.

This is what i've found. St.Mirren fans i know hate the old firm.

[--------]

This is what i've found. St.Mirren fans i know hate the old firm.


Arthur ("A stramash in the goalmouth - the ball's in the net - DISASTER for Scotland!") Montford was accused way back in the day of being a Rangers supporter.

He said publicly that no, he wasn't a Rangers supporter, he supported Greenock Morton, always had, always would.

Lots of people didn't believe him - until he retired from STV and became a director of the club. He served on the Morton board for several years and I believe he's still an honorary vice-president of the club.

I don't know if he still has that sports jacket ....

[Keith_M]

It must be really difficult to be an OF fan in the media, because of the vitriol you would receive from the 'enemy'. You would always be accused of some sort of bias against the other side (or even your own, in Graham Spiers' case).

I expect that's why, traditionally, there were so many 'Partick Thistle' fans in Media and Celebrity circles; a well known example being Billy Connolly, until he fessed up as a Sellik fan.

[The Sea-gull]

Just a sad fact about Scottish (west of Scotland in particular) society that means OF fans in the media have to stay in the closet.

Given the vast portion of the population supports one or the other, you would think there would be more in the media than there appears to be. Unless we just assume anyone who doesn't declare an allegiance to a team is an old firm fan.

Think Graham Spiers has been open about his support for Rangers? Did he not wait years to "come out" though?

It has always come accross to me that a lot of people from smaller towns in the west lean one way or the other whilst proclaiming support for their local team. I could be wrong though.

You just don't seem to get that in the east. Maybe people from these sorts of places could correct me but you don't seem to get Cowdenbeath or East Fife fans also showing a preference for Hibs or Hearts. Or Arbroath or Forfar fans having a preference for Dundee or Dundee United.

[bob12345]

btw, I've heard Derek Ferguson openly admitting Hunnism on the radio (he could hardly deny it) in the context that his in-laws are Celtic fans. Also, I think Murder McLeod was a boyhood Hun who went on to develop ex-player feelings for Celtic, similar to Kenny Dalglish and Danny McGrain.

Isn't it the same situation with John Robertson and Hibs?

[Diclonius]

Isn't it the same situation with John Robertson and Hibs?

I'm sure I heard somewhere that the "Robbo is a Hibee" thing was started up by Jambos who wanted to make his story seem more dramatic or ironic - e.g. add to the legend. No idea if that's the case or not.

[Miguel]

Think Stewart Brown must have been last Hibs correspondent on Evening News who was actually a supporter and that's going back a bit.
Don't think any of the main 'Scotsman' football writers are Hibs.
Luke Shanley of Sky is Hibs, then there's obviously Aidan Smith and Robert McNeil.

[number9dream]

Dodds is a St Johnstone fan, has a tattoo of the emblem on his leg.

He'd be the first Saintees fan from Cumnock!

[eezyrider]

I'm sure I heard somewhere that the "Robbo is a Hibee" thing was started up by Jambos who wanted to make his story seem more dramatic or ironic - e.g. add to the legend. No idea if that's the case or not.

A little known fact is that for a while John used to go and see Meadowbank Thistle and was a ball boy for them.

EZ