The Allan Wells syndrome

[FLHIBS]

For all you young ones out there, Allan Wells was the Scottish/British Olympic gold medalist in 1980 in the 100m in Russia (his famous big mouth missus Margot....caaaaaamonnnnn Allan, was my PE teacher back then !), however, he will always be remembered as the champion who didn't have to run against the USA sprinters, who had boycotted that Olympics, back in the days of the cold war. Therefore, by his own admission he will always have the 'what if I had ran against them, would I have still won Gold' question over him and perhaps it took something away from the gold medal win.

Anyway my point is, if say Hibs, Motherwell, Aberdeen, Inverness did actually win the league this season(a reality the way Smeltic are playing domestically) do you think the clubs and fans would have the same question of "what if the huns had been still in the SPL, would we have still won it ? and it might mean a little less ?

[SouthMoroccoStu]

For all you young ones out there, Allan Wells was the Scottish/British Olympic gold medalist in 1980 in the 100m in Russia (his famous big mouth missus Margot....caaaaaamonnnnn Allan, was my PE teacher back then !), however, he will always be remembered as the champion who didn't have to run against the USA sprinters, who had boycotted that Olympics, back in the days of the cold war. Therefore, by his own admission he will always have the 'what if I had ran against them, would I have still won Gold' question over him and perhaps it took something away from the gold medal win.

Anyway my point is, if say Hibs, Motherwell, Aberdeen, Inverness did actually win the league this season(a reality the way Smeltic are playing domestically) do you think the clubs and fans would have the same question of "what if the huns had been still in the SPL, would we have still won it ? and it might mean a little less ?

Hmmmm, very interesting point.

But it is Rangers own doing that they are not in the SPL to compete for the championship this year - no one else is to blame.

Like the USSR in 1980, it was there own doing. You can only compete against those who are there / that challenge you.

History is written by the winners. IF we win the SPL, it will be our success, not the Huns down fall.

[pedroorange1875]

Alan Wells beat who he had to not who he couldn't.history states he was the gold medal winner..end of

[FranckSuzy]

For all you young ones out there, Allan Wells was the Scottish/British Olympic gold medalist in 1980 in the 100m in Russia (his famous big mouth missus Margot....caaaaaamonnnnn Allan, was my PE teacher back then !), however, he will always be remembered as the champion who didn't have to run against the USA sprinters, who had boycotted that Olympics, back in the days of the cold war. Therefore, by his own admission he will always have the 'what if I had ran against them, would I have still won Gold' question over him and perhaps it took something away from the gold medal win.

Anyway my point is, if say Hibs, Motherwell, Aberdeen, Inverness did actually win the league this season(a reality the way Smeltic are playing domestically) do you think the clubs and fans would have the same question of "what if the huns had been still in the SPL, would we have still won it ? and it might mean a little less ?

Were you at Firrhill by chance? :wink:

[Peevemor]

Were you at Firrhill by chance? :wink:

Must have been! I was there too at that time although I never had Margo as a teacher - although I did give her a few "C'MOAN ALLAN"s in the corridor.

[FranckSuzy]

Must have been! I was there too at that time although I never had Margo as a teacher - although I did give her a few "C'MOAN ALLAN"s is the corridor.

:greengrin My brother was there 84-88 and she was his teacher. He has a letter from Allan outlining his training regime after he once feigned an interest in athletics :tee hee:

[KWJ]

While it doesn't matter as Celtic will still win the league comfortably, it would not be a tainted title. The last few won by rangers on the other hand ...

[Hibbyradge]

Celtic are struggling domestically because of 3 factors:

1. The Champions League. They have always dropped points after playing in Europe during the week.

2. Rangers are not in the league so the pressure to win every game is less than usual.

3. Rangers are not taking points of everyone too so it's easier to stay in touch.

Most likely, Celtic will start to move away from the pack over the next few weeks so I doubt the Alan Wells dilemma will come to pass.

However, my answer the direct question would be that no doubt Rangers fans would say that the league was weak without them.

But that's tough!

[ballengeich]

For all you young ones out there, Allan Wells was the Scottish/British Olympic gold medalist in 1980 in the 100m in Russia (his famous big mouth missus Margot....caaaaaamonnnnn Allan, was my PE teacher back then !), however, he will always be remembered as the champion who didn't have to run against the USA sprinters, who had boycotted that Olympics, back in the days of the cold war. Therefore, by his own admission he will always have the 'what if I had ran against them, would I have still won Gold' question over him and perhaps it took something away from the gold medal win.

Anyway my point is, if say Hibs, Motherwell, Aberdeen, Inverness did actually win the league this season(a reality the way Smeltic are playing domestically) do you think the clubs and fans would have the same question of "what if the huns had been still in the SPL, would we have still won it ? and it might mean a little less ?

In the Olympic final Wells finished ahead of Sylvio Leonard, a Cuban who was rated ahead of all the USA sprinters at the time. A few weeks later he then won a race in Koblenz, Germany against all the top USA athletes. His results after the Olympics removed any suggestion that he gained his gold due to the absence of others.

You have the right to support Rangers (old or new). Please stop insulting a great Scottish athlete because your club's financial failings has removed it from our country's top football divison.

[Teuchter Hibbie]

For all you young ones out there, Allan Wells was the Scottish/British Olympic gold medalist in 1980 in the 100m in Russia (his famous big mouth missus Margot....caaaaaamonnnnn Allan, was my PE teacher back then !), however, he will always be remembered as the champion who didn't have to run against the USA sprinters, who had boycotted that Olympics, back in the days of the cold war. Therefore, by his own admission he will always have the 'what if I had ran against them, would I have still won Gold' question over him and perhaps it took something away from the gold medal win.

Anyway my point is, if say Hibs, Motherwell, Aberdeen, Inverness did actually win the league this season(a reality the way Smeltic are playing domestically) do you think the clubs and fans would have the same question of "what if the huns had been still in the SPL, would we have still won it ? and it might mean a little less ?

It depends if you mean the huns team of a year or two ago, or the huns team of today. The current huns side would be imo around mid-table in the league just now, although there's a school of thought that says players like Shiels, Black, Sandaza etc would up their game considerably for the SPL.

I don't think it would detract from the achievement of winning the league, especially when it contains a side in the last 16 of the CL, who turned over Barcelona. And aside from anything else, The Rangers are in Div 3 by the financial doings of their old club, it's nothing but their own fault. You can only beat what's put in front of you.

Anyway, it's a moot point, as once Celtic are knocked out of Europe, they will more than likely stroll what remains of the league.

[magpie1892]

For all you young ones out there, Allan Wells was the Scottish/British Olympic gold medalist in 1980 in the 100m in Russia (his famous big mouth missus Margot....caaaaaamonnnnn Allan, was my PE teacher back then !), however, he will always be remembered as the champion who didn't have to run against the USA sprinters, who had boycotted that Olympics, back in the days of the cold war. Therefore, by his own admission he will always have the 'what if I had ran against them, would I have still won Gold' question over him and perhaps it took something away from the gold medal win.

Anyway my point is, if say Hibs, Motherwell, Aberdeen, Inverness did actually win the league this season(a reality the way Smeltic are playing domestically) do you think the clubs and fans would have the same question of "what if the huns had been still in the SPL, would we have still won it ? and it might mean a little less ?

And if, you know, your history...

From (and properly sourced) Wikipiedia: "Following the Moscow Olympics, there was some suggestion that Wells's gold medal had been devalued by the boycott of the games. Wells accepted an invitation take on the best USA sprinters of the day among others at a track meeting in Koblenz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koblenz) in Germany. Less than two weeks after the Moscow gold, Wells (10.19) won the final that included Americans[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Wells#cite_note-guardianolysrs-2) Stanley Floyd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Floyd) (10.21), Mel Lattany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Lattany) (10.25), Carl Lewis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lewis) (10.30) and Harvey Glance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Glance) (10.31). At the end of 1980, Wells was awarded Scottish sports personality of the year.
1981 including Golden Sprints and World Cup victories

In 1981, after a successful tour of Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) and New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand), Wells won the European Cup 100 metres, beating East German (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany) Frank Emmelmann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Emmelmann). Wells also finished 2nd in the 200.
He then demonstrated his calibre by finishing first in the "IAAF Golden sprints" in Berlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin); which was the most prominent Sprint Meeting in the World that year. Although finishing second to the Frenchman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) Hermann Panzo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Panzo) by 0.01 secs in the 100, Wells emphatically won the 200 beating the top four American sprinters Mel Lattany, Jeff Phillips, Stanley Floyd, Steve Williams as well as Canada's Ben Johnson in the 100/200, 10.15/20.15 (200 wind assist) for Wells to win the event in an aggregate 30.30.
To add to this, Wells won the 100 metres at the IAAF World cup in Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome), beating the American Champion and world's fastest 100m performer of the year which was 10.00 by Carl Lewis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lewis); Wells then finished 2nd in the world cup 200.
Afterwards, he beat the top Americans Mel Lattany and Stanley Floyd again, when he won a 200 in the Memorial Van Damme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Van_Damme) meeting in Brussels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels), Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium)."

***

And I'm English FFS.

[basehibby]

For all you young ones out there, Allan Wells was the Scottish/British Olympic gold medalist in 1980 in the 100m in Russia (his famous big mouth missus Margot....caaaaaamonnnnn Allan, was my PE teacher back then !), however, he will always be remembered as the champion who didn't have to run against the USA sprinters, who had boycotted that Olympics, back in the days of the cold war. Therefore, by his own admission he will always have the 'what if I had ran against them, would I have still won Gold' question over him and perhaps it took something away from the gold medal win.

Anyway my point is, if say Hibs, Motherwell, Aberdeen, Inverness did actually win the league this season(a reality the way Smeltic are playing domestically) do you think the clubs and fans would have the same question of "what if the huns had been still in the SPL, would we have still won it ? and it might mean a little less ?


Not at all - it would still be an imense achievement for any of these clubs to beat Celtic to the title considering the disparity in resources.

Of course it would be twice as hard with a strong Rangers in the SPL - but there ain't and that's nobody's fault but their own

[jabis]

In the Olympic final Wells finished ahead of Sylvio Leonard, a Cuban who was rated ahead of all the USA sprinters at the time. A few weeks later he then won a race in Koblenz, Germany against all the top USA athletes. His results after the Olympics removed any suggestion that he gained his gold due to the absence of others.

You have the right to support Rangers (old or new). Please stop insulting a great Scottish athlete because your club's financial failings has removed it from our country's top football divison.

spot on.

[Twa Cairpets]

Must have been! I was there too at that time although I never had Margo as a teacher - although I did give her a few "C'MOAN ALLAN"s in the corridor.

Firrhill seemed to have spawned a few good Hibbies - I was there '77-'84.
Margot Wells was a fairly unpleasant women if I remember rightly. So far up herself it was unbelievable.

But as for the OP, no nothing tainted. In fact almost the opposite - it is for the first time in years a clean sporting competition. Sevco caught and dealt with, HMFSevco on the rocks. Teams competing on the basis of relative parity cannot be seen as in any way tainted.

[oregonhibby]

You can only beat what is put in front of you. A solid gold from Well's.

[jamiehibee]

On a side note, Mr and Mrs Wells now live in Surrey, and she is one of the UK's top sprint coaches and helps
rugby and footballers fix there running techniques

[.Sean.]

I don't think so, I think we're all pretty united in our dislike for the Old Firm. If Hibs couldn't do it, i'd be delighted to see any team outwith the Celtic, Rangers or Hearts win the SPL.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Only in the delusional minds of Huns. By that logic, were Hibs and Hearts titles from the late 40s to early 60s tainted by the fact Celtic were almost completely guff during that period? Or were the Aberdeen and Dundee United successes of the 1980s diminished by Rangers being pisspoor?

[givescotlandfreedom]

It wouldn't make any difference to the achievement. When we won the league cup nobody cared that we didn't play the old firm clubs on our way to winning the trophy. Equally had we won it a few years before it wouldn't have meant any more even though we knocked both of them out on the wy to the final.

[TrinityHibs]

Nothing to do with Football as you can only beat who you are playing against but I have always felt Wells' success was tainted and it had nothing to do with who he was running against. For me the best, naturally talented Scottish sprinter at that time was Cameron Sharp and he didnt win a gold medal at the Olympics. For what its worth I also think that Valeri Borsov, Ben Johnston, Carl Lewis and Linford Christie's success was tainted as well. Opinions huh

[blackpoolhibs]

I have always thought those titles that were won when we had been relegated, were tainted titles.

[--------]

Nothing to do with Football as you can only beat who you are playing against but I have always felt Wells' success was tainted and it had nothing to do with who he was running against. For me the best, naturally talented Scottish sprinter at that time was Cameron Sharp and he didnt win a gold medal at the Olympics. For what its worth I also think that Valeri Borsov, Ben Johnston, Carl Lewis and Linford Christie's success was tainted as well. Opinions huh


George McNeill? :cool2: Of course, he was a professional, which in the ethos of Olympic athletics in those days meant he was an unperson.

I don't see how you can say what you say about Sharpe (sp) - his competitive record doesn't bear any sort of comparison to that of Allan Wells. You said it yourself - he didn't win a Gold medal at the Olympics. He didn't win any medal at the Olympics. And he didn't do better than bronze in the individual sprints in the Commonwealths - his only Commonwealth gold was in the 4 by 100 relay at Edmonton in 1978 - in the same team as Allan Wells ....

The meeting at Koblenz where Wells defeated what amounted to the entire US 100 metres squad - Floyd, Lattany, Lewis and Glance - took place two weeks after the Olympic 100 metre final. If Wells wasn't "that" good - how come not even one of those Yanks was able to put him in his place?

Why do some Scots have this uncontrollable urge to put down their successful fellow-countrymen and women?


In regard to the OP, of course the absence of "The Rangers" from the SPL doesn't devalue the competition.

Whatever one thinks of the way the Scottish football authorities handled the situation, the demise of Glasgow Rangers was self-inflicted. What WOULD have devalued the competition entirely would have been the inclusion of "The Rangers" - a new club just established - into the SPL in breach of the SPL's own rule book.

If it were to to transpire that Hibs or Aberdeen (for example) were to finish top of the SPL, neither the Hibs fans nor the Dons fans need feel any embarrassment. Their team would have beaten all the other teams they had been asked to compete against - end of story.

[Phil MaGlass]

Surely sellik and the buns title wins must also be tainted, they buy up all the competitions best players and sit them on the bench or put them in the reserves giving them an unfair advantage due to weakening the rest of the league unfair yes, tainted in my eyes yes..

As for Wells,:not worth:not worth I will never forget the open top car through Edinburgh, if anyone deserved Gold he did, fantastic for the city and Scotland.Still gives me goosebumps.

[Peevemor]

Firrhill seemed to have spawned a few good Hibbies - I was there '77-'84.
Margot Wells was a fairly unpleasant women if I remember rightly. So far up herself it was unbelievable.

But as for the OP, no nothing tainted. In fact almost the opposite - it is for the first time in years a clean sporting competition. Sevco caught and dealt with, HMFSevco on the rocks. Teams competing on the basis of relative parity cannot be seen as in any way tainted.

I was 79-84.

I can remember her being crabbit but, as I said, I never had her as a teacher so I don't really know.

[LeighLoyal]

Deadco got at least 20 points a year from bent refs, sorry, "honest mistakes." The sporting equivalent of sprinters loaded on peds, and when you add their financial doping they won by cheating.



Wells beat all those Yanks in the golden sprint in 81, different era obviously as he'd need to be filled with peds to compete now.

[--------]

I was 79-84.

I can remember her being crabbit but, as I said, I never had her as a teacher so I don't really know.


She ranged from 'focussed' to 'crabbit' to 'seriously bowel-meltingly terrifying', IIRC.

And I only saw her at Meadowbank at Thursday evening training sessions ....

[Phil D. Rolls]

I've always wondered how people who take steroids feel when they win things. It must take some of the shine off it, unless of course you are a complete tool to start off with.

[FLHIBS]

Were you at Firrhill by chance? :wink:
Correct 1977-1982, place was full of Hertz basas !!

[FLHIBS]

Must have been! I was there too at that time although I never had Margo as a teacher - although I did give her a few "C'MOAN ALLAN"s in the corridor. She got it tight from all the kids after that, although she was not one to mess with !

[FLHIBS]

While it doesn't matter as Celtic will still win the league comfortably, it would not be a tainted title. The last few won by rangers on the other hand ... Yes totally agree

[FLHIBS]

[QUOTE=Hibbyradge;3439693]Celtic are struggling domestically because of 3 factors:

1. The Champions League. They have always dropped points after playing in Europe during the week.

2. Rangers are not in the league so the pressure to win every game is less than usual.

3. Rangers are not taking points of everyone too so it's easier to stay in touch.

Most likely, Celtic will start to move away from the pack over the next few weeks so I doubt the Alan Wells dilemma will come to pass.

However, my answer the direct question would be that no doubt Rangers fans would say that the league was weak without them.

Agree and as another caller pointed out, the Huns must look back on many of their titles with a what if factor

[FLHIBS]

In the Olympic final Wells finished ahead of Sylvio Leonard, a Cuban who was rated ahead of all the USA sprinters at the time. A few weeks later he then won a race in Koblenz, Germany against all the top USA athletes. His results after the Olympics removed any suggestion that he gained his gold due to the absence of others.

You have the right to support Rangers (old or new). Please stop insulting a great Scottish athlete because your club's financial failings has removed it from our country's top football divison.

Honest to Christ some people just can't help themselves can they ! Firstly, I bow to you athletic history knowledge but where did I say anything that insulted him ? It was a point he made himself during this year's Olympics when he was on BBC as a pundit !!!!! But WTF are you on about supporting Rangers ?....what a tool mate honestly ! I didn't give an opinion just asked a question to see what others thought..............but no ya short sighted idiot you accuse me of being a Hun and insulting Wells ?......I honestly though Hibs.net was for open discussion but I get this roaster on my back ? Supported Hibs for over 40 years fool !

[FLHIBS]

And if, you know, your history...

From (and properly sourced) Wikipiedia: "Following the Moscow Olympics, there was some suggestion that Wells's gold medal had been devalued by the boycott of the games. Wells accepted an invitation take on the best USA sprinters of the day among others at a track meeting in Koblenz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koblenz) in Germany. Less than two weeks after the Moscow gold, Wells (10.19) won the final that included Americans[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Wells#cite_note-guardianolysrs-2) Stanley Floyd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Floyd) (10.21), Mel Lattany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Lattany) (10.25), Carl Lewis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lewis) (10.30) and Harvey Glance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Glance) (10.31). At the end of 1980, Wells was awarded Scottish sports personality of the year.
1981 including Golden Sprints and World Cup victories

In 1981, after a successful tour of Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) and New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand), Wells won the European Cup 100 metres, beating East German (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany) Frank Emmelmann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Emmelmann). Wells also finished 2nd in the 200.
He then demonstrated his calibre by finishing first in the "IAAF Golden sprints" in Berlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin); which was the most prominent Sprint Meeting in the World that year. Although finishing second to the Frenchman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) Hermann Panzo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Panzo) by 0.01 secs in the 100, Wells emphatically won the 200 beating the top four American sprinters Mel Lattany, Jeff Phillips, Stanley Floyd, Steve Williams as well as Canada's Ben Johnson in the 100/200, 10.15/20.15 (200 wind assist) for Wells to win the event in an aggregate 30.30.
To add to this, Wells won the 100 metres at the IAAF World cup in Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome), beating the American Champion and world's fastest 100m performer of the year which was 10.00 by Carl Lewis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lewis); Wells then finished 2nd in the world cup 200.
Afterwards, he beat the top Americans Mel Lattany and Stanley Floyd again, when he won a 200 in the Memorial Van Damme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Van_Damme) meeting in Brussels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels), Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium)."

***

And I'm English FFS.

Can't argue with any of that, there was never any doubting he was a truly great sprinter and true Scottish hero but it was he himself who discussed it during the Olympics and you could sense that it will always be in the back of his mind.

[FLHIBS]

spot on.

You can also ready my reply to him.....you are obviously the same !..........all I do is ask a question, never offered an opinion and get people on my case that I'm a hun ?...............read some of my other posts........I'll not bother posting anything else if all you get is accused of not being a Hibby because I've not posted a bazzilion subjects !

[Keith_M]

You can also ready my reply to him.....you are obviously the same !..........all I do is ask a question, never offered an opinion and get people on my case that I'm a hun ?...............read some of my other posts........I'll not bother posting anything else if all you get is accused of not being a Hibby because I've not posted a bazzilion subjects !


It makes a change, it's normally just LTYF :wink:

[FLHIBS]

Firrhill seemed to have spawned a few good Hibbies - I was there '77-'84.
Margot Wells was a fairly unpleasant women if I remember rightly. So far up herself it was unbelievable.

But as for the OP, no nothing tainted. In fact almost the opposite - it is for the first time in years a clean sporting competition. Sevco caught and dealt with, HMFSevco on the rocks. Teams competing on the basis of relative parity cannot be seen as in any way tainted.

I was there 77-82, wasn't many of us, total Jambo jungle ! I was in the year below Neil Berry and Willie Jamieson and remember Mike Galloway being there for a spell in my year.

[FLHIBS]

It makes a change, it's normally just LTYF :wink:

Only screening interviews and lie detector tests to prove you are a Hibby will work for some people on here !

[TrinityHibs]

George McNeill? :cool2: Of course, he was a professional, which in the ethos of Olympic athletics in those days meant he was an unperson.

I don't see how you can say what you say about Sharpe (sp) - his competitive record doesn't bear any sort of comparison to that of Allan Wells. You said it yourself - he didn't win a Gold medal at the Olympics. He didn't win any medal at the Olympics. And he didn't do better than bronze in the individual sprints in the Commonwealths - his only Commonwealth gold was in the 4 by 100 relay at Edmonton in 1978 - in the same team as Allan Wells ....

The meeting at Koblenz where Wells defeated what amounted to the entire US 100 metres squad - Floyd, Lattany, Lewis and Glance - took place two weeks after the Olympic 100 metre final. If Wells wasn't "that" good - how come not even one of those Yanks was able to put him in his place?

Why do some Scots have this uncontrollable urge to put down their successful fellow-countrymen and women?


In regard to the OP, of course the absence of "The Rangers" from the SPL doesn't devalue the competition.

Whatever one thinks of the way the Scottish football authorities handled the situation, the demise of Glasgow Rangers was self-inflicted. What WOULD have devalued the competition entirely would have been the inclusion of "The Rangers" - a new club just established - into the SPL in breach of the SPL's own rule book.

If it were to to transpire that Hibs or Aberdeen (for example) were to finish top of the SPL, neither the Hibs fans nor the Dons fans need feel any embarrassment. Their team would have beaten all the other teams they had been asked to compete against - end of story.

Setting aside my inability to spell and not including George McNeill who was and is one of the good guys I made reference to natural talent. You are quite correct in your observation that Wells won a host of titles however the same could have been said of Lance Armstrong until very recently when it was proved that he was tainted as opposed to massively successful yet some people were of the opinion his success was tainted. I suppose what I am saying is I am not convinced about Alan Wells and his success. In my mind Cameron Sharpe, who is Scottish, was successful, I preferred him as a role model and I did not put him down. In fact I placed him above Wells in a positive sense. You will also note the other four sprinters, who I believe to be tainted, are not Scottish so its not an anti successful Scottish observation.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Setting aside my inability to spell and not including George McNeill who was and is one of the good guys I made reference to natural talent. You are quite correct in your observation that Wells won a host of titles however the same could have been said of Lance Armstrong until very recently when it was proved that he was tainted as opposed to massively successful yet some people were of the opinion his success was tainted. I suppose what I am saying is I am not convinced about Alan Wells and his success. In my mind Cameron Sharpe, who is Scottish, was successful, I preferred him as a role model and I did not put him down. In fact I placed him above Wells in a positive sense. You will also note the other four sprinters, who I believe to be tainted, are not Scottish so its not an anti successful Scottish observation.

:agree: IIRC Cameron Sharpe had the same coach as Wells, or did he leave around about the time that Wells made his remarkable transition from mediocre long jumper to top ranked sprinter?

I suppose there are many possible explanations for Allan's increase in body muscle over such a short period. The rumours circulating at the time might have been as much about jealousy as anything else.

One thing I do remember is that Wells was hounded out of Meadowbank by a group of fellow sprinters.

[FLHIBS]

:agree: IIRC Cameron Sharpe had the same coach as Wells, or did he leave around about the time that Wells made his remarkable transition from mediocre long jumper to top ranked sprinter?

I suppose there are many possible explanations for Allan's increase in body muscle over such a short period.

He was probably getting battered by Margo and needed to bulk up to deal with her....... IMO Cameron Sharpe wasn't in the same league as Wells.

[Phil D. Rolls]

He was probably getting battered by Margo and needed to bulk up to deal with her....... IMO Cameron Sharpe wasn't in the same league as Wells.

IMO - they used different "training regimes". :wink:

[ballengeich]

Honest to Christ some people just can't help themselves can they ! Firstly, I bow to you athletic history knowledge but where did I say anything that insulted him ? It was a point he made himself during this year's Olympics when he was on BBC as a pundit !!!!! But WTF are you on about supporting Rangers ?....what a tool mate honestly ! I didn't give an opinion just asked a question to see what others thought..............but no ya short sighted idiot you accuse me of being a Hun and insulting Wells ?......I honestly though Hibs.net was for open discussion but I get this roaster on my back ? Supported Hibs for over 40 years fool !

I found your original post rather strange as I've only previously seen suggestions that the league is devalued at present from one source. Apologies if I've misjudged you.

[TrinityHibs]

IMO - they used different "training regimes". :wink:

He certainly had a different approach to a Commonwealth Games athlete I know who was about at the same time. However, as you said previously, it might just have been jealousy.:wink:

[--------]

Setting aside my inability to spell and not including George McNeill who was and is one of the good guys I made reference to natural talent. You are quite correct in your observation that Wells won a host of titles however the same could have been said of Lance Armstrong until very recently when it was proved that he was tainted as opposed to massively successful yet some people were of the opinion his success was tainted. I suppose what I am saying is I am not convinced about Alan Wells and his success. In my mind Cameron Sharpe, who is Scottish, was successful, I preferred him as a role model and I did not put him down. In fact I placed him above Wells in a positive sense. You will also note the other four sprinters, who I believe to be tainted, are not Scottish so its not an anti successful Scottish observation.


If we're talking about the possibility that Wells' medals are 'tainted' because he was using illegal drugs to bulk up and improve performance, then thta's a different matter altogether.

If Sharpe did remove himself from Wells' circle because Wells was on steroids, then I would agree with you.

Are we saying that Allan Wells was on steroids?

[Phil D. Rolls]

He certainly had a different approach to a Commonwealth Games athlete I know who was about at the same time. However, as you said previously, it might just have been jealousy.:wink:

It would be interesting to speak to other athletes that had the same coach. Particularly those that dumped the coach.


If we're talking about the possibility that Wells' medals are 'tainted' because he was using illegal drugs to bulk up and improve performance, then thta's a different matter altogether.

If Sharpe did remove himself from Wells' circle because Wells was on steroids, then I would agree with you.

Are we saying that Allan Wells was on steroids?

It wouldn't be wise for anyone to say that if they couldn't prove it.

[Jack]

For all you young ones out there, Allan Wells was the Scottish/British Olympic gold medalist in 1980 in the 100m in Russia (his famous big mouth missus Margot....caaaaaamonnnnn Allan, was my PE teacher back then !), however, he will always be remembered as the champion who didn't have to run against the USA sprinters, who had boycotted that Olympics, back in the days of the cold war. Therefore, by his own admission he will always have the 'what if I had ran against them, would I have still won Gold' question over him and perhaps it took something away from the gold medal win.

Anyway my point is, if say Hibs, Motherwell, Aberdeen, Inverness did actually win the league this season(a reality the way Smeltic are playing domestically) do you think the clubs and fans would have the same question of "what if the huns had been still in the SPL, would we have still won it ? and it might mean a little less ?

Who's to say we wouldn't have won it sometime over the past decade if they hadn't been cheating. All we can be sure of the success they had would have been unlikely.

[sadtom]

Since 1986 and The Beast's arrival (followed soon after by Sir Minty Moombeams), der Hun have been spending money they didnt have (some of it belonging to you and me) to secure title after title and ultimately dominate Scottish fitba for the majority of this period.
It allowed them to secure the signatures of some world class, globally renowned players, and more than double their average attendances since the.
It has to be remembered that in the 15 year period before Souness (which began with them winning their only euro trophy their average attendance for those 15 years is under 25k.

Therefore it was a double windfall for them rack up a debt they would never pay back, use questionable (and if not illegal then morally repugnant tax dodges) methods to maintain their No1 spot. This allowed them to revceive double the income through the turnstyles based on a myth of their spending power.

So really the question is, had der hun not cheated since '86 they would not have had double the gate money and associated sales they revieved during that period never mind the 50mil - 120mil they overspent.
The 15 years prior to their cheating suggests they would have had their moments but would not have been a certain challenger to any strong side outwith the old squirm.

The only tainted titles are ALL the silverwear they obtained since '86. (the gorgi ****s can also include their victories since mad vlad arrived).

[FLHIBS]

I found your original post rather strange as I've only previously seen suggestions that the league is devalued at present from one source. Apologies if I've misjudged you.

Apology accepted, you did misjudge me. I did not say I believed the league was devalued, just was interested in what others thought, to which there has been some really excellent and well thought out replies.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

That way that Rangers have toiled in the Third Division means that they would not be serious contenders for the SPL this season, even if they had been allowed in. Any team to finish above Celtc will win the SPL.

[Bostonhibby]

She ranged from 'focussed' to 'crabbit' to 'seriously bowel-meltingly terrifying', IIRC.

And I only saw her at Meadowbank at Thursday evening training sessions ....

She was the "inspiration" behind big Alan who , a lot of us from Meadowbank in that era knew and admired greatly and if she was behind me I would have won an olympic gold keeping just far enough ahead as well.............

[ekhibee]

I agree that it was a bit unfair to say Wells didn't beat much because the americans wern't there, and remember the race in Koblenz as well. He was beaten fair and square by an American, James Sanford (Sandford?) in a race I also saw, and that was around that time too, but didn't hear much about Sanford after that. I was wondering, was Wells still working for Brown Brothers at the time he won the gold at the Olympics?

[Phil D. Rolls]

She was the "inspiration" behind big Alan who , a lot of us from Meadowbank in that era knew and admired greatly and if she was behind me I would have won an olympic gold keeping just far enough ahead as well.............

I'm not stirring here, just trying to get a full picture. Is it true that there was a group of runners that made life difficult for Wells? I think he hinted at that when he moved down to England.

I heard that they would heckle him when he was training, and generally noised him up.

[Bostonhibby]

I'm not stirring here, just trying to get a full picture. Is it true that there was a group of runners that made life difficult for Wells? I think he hinted at that when he moved down to England.

I heard that they would heckle him when he was training, and generally noised him up.

Our source and connection was the guy who managed the stadium and frequented the Golden Gates and Porters, never had a bad word to say about AW, never heard anything along the lines you suggest but he achieved a lot in a short space of time given that he won a lot later in his career so maybe he was doing too well for those that weren't?

I thought he went down there because his good lady felt the training was better and maybe the opportunities for her as a coach were (?) no really sure but if she shouted at me to move I would.

Liked AW, his time came and he did everything he had to by beating what they put in front of him. The Russians didn't roll over in their home olympics.

[hibbymick]

Wells used to occasionally train at the Edinburgh southern harriers club at fernieside ( just round the corner from where he grew up). Margot was a complete battleaxe( maybe cause he never had much energy left for her in the bedroom after his heavy training stints). She would shut the club so we couldnt get in and we would occasionally be standing ootside in the pissin rain waiting on him finishing his training. We used to look through the windows and he was forever doing pull ups and working on the punch ball ( think thats what its called).

[Stantons Angel]

In the Olympic final Wells finished ahead of Sylvio Leonard, a Cuban who was rated ahead of all the USA sprinters at the time. A few weeks later he then won a race in Koblenz, Germany against all the top USA athletes. His results after the Olympics removed any suggestion that he gained his gold due to the absence of others.

You have the right to support Rangers (old or new). Please stop insulting a great Scottish athlete because your club's financial failings has removed it from our country's top football divison.

I read the original post and couldnt believe just how disrespectful it was to Alan Wells and his efforts to win that Gold medal. He did what he had to do to win it and he beat a few of the much fancied athletes around him.
He was always a proud and great ambassador for the sport and his country!

The point made, i can understand and in my own opinion other teams can say what they like! This league has never been so tight and not having Rangers in it is a breath of fresh air. It may have slipped others notice but for the last few years they have cheated their way to success and the points taken from not just Hibs are not so easily lost now.

Who ever wins this league will have done so on their own merit by beating the teams around them fair and square. Who cares if Rangers are not around to take points of every one else? i dont!

[Bostonhibby]

I read the original post and couldnt believe just how disrespectful it was to Alan Wells and his efforts to win that Gold medal. He did what he had to do to win it and he beat a few of the much fancied athletes around him.
He was always a proud and great ambassador for the sport and his country!

The point made, i can understand and in my own opinion other teams can say what they like! This league has never been so tight and not having Rangers in it is a breath of fresh air. It may have slipped others notice but for the last few years they have cheated their way to success and the points taken from not just Hibs are not so easily lost now.

Who ever wins this league will have done so on their own merit by beating the teams around them fair and square. Who cares if Rangers are not around to take points of every one else? i dont!

:top marks no comparison, there's gaining success by your own physical effort and sacrifice alone and there's well........cheating and we are only hearing part of it - plenty EBT's we haven't been allowed to hear about who benefitted from, and I still don't understand why HMRC never hounded them when tax was only a fortnight overdue - they do it to the self employed.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Our source and connection was the guy who managed the stadium and frequented the Golden Gates and Porters, never had a bad word to say about AW, never heard anything along the lines you suggest but he achieved a lot in a short space of time given that he won a lot later in his career so maybe he was doing too well for those that weren't?

I thought he went down there because his good lady felt the training was better and maybe the opportunities for her as a coach were (?) no really sure but if she shouted at me to move I would.

Liked AW, his time came and he did everything he had to by beating what they put in front of him. The Russians didn't roll over in their home olympics.

Fair enough, my sources were runners that trained at the stadium. There's two sides to every story, and I recognise that they didn't like the man, for whatever reason. I accept that they may not haven given a truthful picture.

[Bostonhibby]

Fair enough, my sources were runners that trained at the stadium. There's two sides to every story, and I recognise that they didn't like the man, for whatever reason. I accept that they may not haven given a truthful picture.

TBH I am no better informed than you really just got the stories in the pub in the evening and the whole AW story took off quite quick - certainly a real folk hero at the time but his success in itself could be a reason for him becoming or being unpopular.

I liked Cameron Sharp who seemed to have been around longer than AW at a high level but AW did a lot quickly.

[ginger_rice]

George McNeill? :cool2: Of course, he was a professional, which in the ethos of Olympic athletics in those days meant he was an unperson.

.

I remember him playing on the wing for Stirling Albion never seen anyone run so fast with a ball at their feet, he was faster even than Arthur Duncan!

[ginger_rice]

I recall AW being interviewed around the time of the Moscow olympics and saying that in order to be World class sprinters needed to train like boxers and to need a lot of upper body strength

[surreyhibbie]

In the Olympic final Wells finished ahead of Sylvio Leonard, a Cuban who was rated ahead of all the USA sprinters at the time. A few weeks later he then won a race in Koblenz, Germany against all the top USA athletes. His results after the Olympics removed any suggestion that he gained his gold due to the absence of others.

You have the right to support Rangers (old or new). Please stop insulting a great Scottish athlete because your club's financial failings has removed it from our country's top football divison.

:agree:

Within a few weeks he had beaten all the guys who didn't turn up for the games.

Had nothing to prove in my book!

[--------]

Our source and connection was the guy who managed the stadium and frequented the Golden Gates and Porters, never had a bad word to say about AW, never heard anything along the lines you suggest but he achieved a lot in a short space of time given that he won a lot later in his career so maybe he was doing too well for those that weren't?

I thought he went down there because his good lady felt the training was better and maybe the opportunities for her as a coach were (?) no really sure but if she shouted at me to move I would.

Liked AW, his time came and he did everything he had to by beating what they put in front of him. The Russians didn't roll over in their home olympics.


I recall AW being interviewed around the time of the Moscow olympics and saying that in order to be World class sprinters needed to train like boxers and to need a lot of upper body strength


I was regularly at Meadowbank in the late 1970's for the Thursday evening meetings of the Meadowbank Fencing Club.

We used to see Wells in the cafeteria around 6 o'clock before he started his evening training session. There was Allan and Margot, George McNeill who was one of AW's trainers, another lad from Tranent, Drew McMaster (who won a Gold medal in the Edmonton Commonwealth Games 4 by 100 relay IIRC) and a couple of other guys whose names I never learned.

They were all gathered round their own table, concentrating on their own business and bothering no one. They were very much a group to themselves.

George McNeill was one of the 2 or 3 fastest short-sprint professionals in the world at the time - which meant he was faster than a lot of the Olympic sprinters AW was competing against. It also meant that he was used to professional training methods, which stressed the need to develop upper-body strength for 100 and 200 metre runners.

IIRC this was a new idea at the time, and AW was a very hard gym worker. I recall that Drew McMaster's times also improved markedly over this period.

George McNeill was very involved in training them both. It's more than likely that Allan Wells was a naturally gifted sprinter whose development took off when he was introduced to a new and previously untried training regime by George McNeill. George knew his stuff, that's for sure.

Bear in mind that there was at that time a lot of snobbery in amateur athletics regarding professional runners like McNeill. McNeill himself had never run professionally as a sprinter, but the fact that he had played professional football meant that he was banned out of hand from running as an amateur sprinter at any level. That in itself could account for some of the other athletes at Meadowbank keeping their distance from the Wells camp.

Allan always came over as a very decent, quiet guy. Margot as a person (when she wasn't coaching, that is) was perfectly OK. I spoke to her a couple of times in the stadium cafe and she was fine.

[Twa Cairpets]

I was there 77-82, wasn't many of us, total Jambo jungle ! I was in the year below Neil Berry and Willie Jamieson and remember Mike Galloway being there for a spell in my year.

I remember Jamiseon had been at Firrhill, but didnt know Neil Berry was. I'm assuming that if you started 1st year in '77 you were in the same year as me - I've no memory of Galloway being there, but then again it is 30 years ago...

[hibee_nation]

Wells used to occasionally train at the Edinburgh southern harriers club at fernieside ( just round the corner from where he grew up). Margot was a complete battleaxe( maybe cause he never had much energy left for her in the bedroom after his heavy training stints). She would shut the club so we couldnt get in and we would occasionally be standing ootside in the pissin rain waiting on him finishing his training. We used to look through the windows and he was forever doing pull ups and working on the punch ball ( think thats what its called).

I used to go there in the early 70's. Chris Black the hammer thrower used to train there then. He always turned up in a crappy wee van with an absolute maniac of an alsatian. Probably the only car in the scheme that could be left unlocked in safety. :greengrin

[hibbymick]

I used to go there in the early 70's. Chris Black the hammer thrower used to train there then. He always turned up in a crappy wee van with an absolute maniac of an alsatian. Probably the only car in the scheme that could be left unlocked in safety. :greengrin

Thats right, i remember chris black training there as well.

[jabis]

You can also ready my reply to him.....you are obviously the same !..........all I do is ask a question, never offered an opinion and get people on my case that I'm a hun ?...............read some of my other posts........I'll not bother posting anything else if all you get is accused of not being a Hibby because I've not posted a bazzilion subjects !

to be honest,i was replying to his first paragraph,never really noticed the second part.
but after reading your reply to him,i shall withhold my apology until you promise to go to anger management classes.
talk about "toys out the pram"

[Paisley Hibby]

Not at all - it would still be an imense achievement for any of these clubs to beat Celtic to the title considering the disparity in resources.

Of course it would be twice as hard with a strong Rangers in the SPL - but there ain't and that's nobody's fault but their own

Spot on. The Celtic wage bill is probably more than the rest of the SPL put together. Given such a vast disparity it would be utterly amazing if another team won the league. The only devalued achievement will be celtic wining the title without having had to compete with a team having anything like their cash. If they don't win it by a mile then Lennon would deserve the sack as Celtic should be able to win even if I was managing them!

[FLHIBS]

to be honest,i was replying to his first paragraph,never really noticed the second part.
but after reading your reply to him,i shall withhold my apology until you promise to go to anger management classes.
talk about "toys out the pram"

done !

[FLHIBS]

I remember Jamiseon had been at Firrhill, but didnt know Neil Berry was. I'm assuming that if you started 1st year in '77 you were in the same year as me - I've no memory of Galloway being there, but then again it is 30 years ago...

Thanks for reminding me how old I'm getting !....what's your name mate ?

[FLHIBS]

I read the original post and couldnt believe just how disrespectful it was to Alan Wells and his efforts to win that Gold medal. He did what he had to do to win it and he beat a few of the much fancied athletes around him.
He was always a proud and great ambassador for the sport and his country!

The point made, i can understand and in my own opinion other teams can say what they like! This league has never been so tight and not having Rangers in it is a breath of fresh air. It may have slipped others notice but for the last few years they have cheated their way to success and the points taken from not just Hibs are not so easily lost now.

Who ever wins this league will have done so on their own merit by beating the teams around them fair and square. Who cares if Rangers are not around to take points of every one else? i dont!

You obviously didn't read it properly, what bit of "by his own admission" did you miss ? followed up by my other replies of when he said this "as a BBC pundit at the Olympics this year".......would be better if people read posts properly !....Again, I only asked a question, offered no opinion and certainly was not disrespectful to him, he in my mind was one of the finest athletes the UK ever produced and his achievement was immense.