New tide of east EU migrants to hit us in 2014 with removal of all restrictions

[LeighLoyal]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4637926/Wave-of-Romanian-and-Bulgarian-immigrants-is-threatening-to-swamp-Britain.html



They said 10k Poles would come, turned out to be well over a million. Are we going to allow this to happen again? :confused:

[yeezus.]

Not surprised that this article has come from the Sun. I sincerely doubt the Romanian in the article is staying in the UK just because he is £50 better off. The truth is, immigration benefits the economy - and if you read a decent paper you would know this.

[marinello59]

What's the problem? Scotland is a better place for it . Of course you are also free to take yourself off to somewhere else in Europe.

[Pretty Boy]

Down with this sort of thing!

[Hainan Hibs]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4637926/Wave-of-Romanian-and-Bulgarian-immigrants-is-threatening-to-swamp-Britain.html



They said 10k Poles would come, turned out to be well over a million. Are we going to allow this to happen again? :confused:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/119390/2581326-indiana_jones___in_before_the_lock.gif
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/119390/2581326-indiana_jones___in_before_the_lock.gif

[BroxburnHibee]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4637926/Wave-of-Romanian-and-Bulgarian-immigrants-is-threatening-to-swamp-Britain.html



They said 10k Poles would come, turned out to be well over a million. Are we going to allow this to happen again? :confused:

Dear oh dear :rolleyes:

No sure whats worse - your view or the paper you read.

[The Green Goblin]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4637926/Wave-of-Romanian-and-Bulgarian-immigrants-is-threatening-to-swamp-Britain.html



They said 10k Poles would come, turned out to be well over a million. Are we going to allow this to happen again? :confused:


"Wave" ..."tide"..."swamp us"..."hit"...."immigrants"..,"threatening"- all referring to people, of course. This from the paper which supported Hitler and argued he had the right idea towards the Jews/Eastern European peoples right up until war was declared in 1939.

Then there's your way of putting it- "they said" (who is "they" anyway?) and the dangerous in its implication "are we going to allow this to happen again"? What is wrong with you? And what are you suggesting we "do" to stop all these faceless, undesirables from coming to the uk? Should we forcibly ban and stop them from entering our hallowed, prosperous land? Should we shoot them if they try to sneak in?

And why is it you don't want them here anyway? I met a lot of really nice Polish people in Edinburgh and elsewhere. You would appear to disagree and your language suggests they were some kind of plague. You will find lots of like-minded friends ready to support your xenophobic (sic racist) views in the BNP.

What is it that offends/scares you about these people? Their skin colour, heritage, strange food and language? Are you afraid they will place strange curses on our children? Or somehow infect us with their strange foreign ways?

I shouldn't bite, but I have to respond, as I really find your attitude so offensive. Terrible.

[BroxburnHibee]

"Wave" ..."tide"..."swamp us"..."threatening"- all referring to people, of course. Then there's your way of putting it- "they said" (who is "they" anyway?) and the dangerous in its implication "are we going to allow this to happen again"? What is wrong with you? And what are you suggesting we "do" to stop all these faceless, undesirables from coming to the uk? Should we forcibly ban and stop them from entering our hallowed, prosperous land? Should we shoot them if they try to sneak in?

And why is it you don't want them here anyway? I met a lot of really nice Polish people in Edinburgh and elsewhere. You would appear to disagree and your language suggests they were some kind of plague. You will find lots of like-minded friends ready to support your xenophobic (sic racist) views in the BNP.

What is it that offends/scares you about these people? Their skin colour, heritage, strange food and language? Are you afraid they will place strange curses on our children? Or somehow infect us with their strange foreign ways?

I shouldn't bite, but I have to respond, as I really find your attitude so offensive. Terrible.

:top marks

[Sir David Gray]

"Wave" ..."tide"..."swamp us"..."hit"...."immigrants"..,"threatening"- all referring to people, of course. This from the paper which supported Hitler and argued he had the right idea towards the Jews/Eastern European peoples (quite ironic given your views on Israel) right up until war was declared in 1939.

Then there's your way of putting it- "they said" (who is "they" anyway?) and the dangerous in its implication "are we going to allow this to happen again"? What is wrong with you? And what are you suggesting we "do" to stop all these faceless, undesirables from coming to the uk? Should we forcibly ban and stop them from entering our hallowed, prosperous land? Should we shoot them if they try to sneak in?

And why is it you don't want them here anyway? I met a lot of really nice Polish people in Edinburgh and elsewhere. You would appear to disagree and your language suggests they were some kind of plague. You will find lots of like-minded friends ready to support your xenophobic (sic racist) views in the BNP.

What is it that offends/scares you about these people? Their skin colour, heritage, strange food and language? Are you afraid they will place strange curses on our children? Or somehow infect us with their strange foreign ways?

I shouldn't bite, but I have to respond, as I really find your attitude so offensive. Terrible.

You are aware that I am not FalkirkHibby, yeah? :confused:

It's ok, you can save the apology.

[marinello59]

"Wave" ..."tide"..."swamp us"..."hit"...."immigrants"..,"threatening"- all referring to people, of course. This from the paper which supported Hitler and argued he had the right idea towards the Jews/Eastern European peoples (quite ironic given your views on Israel) right up until war was declared in 1939.

Then there's your way of putting it- "they said" (who is "they" anyway?) and the dangerous in its implication "are we going to allow this to happen again"? What is wrong with you? And what are you suggesting we "do" to stop all these faceless, undesirables from coming to the uk? Should we forcibly ban and stop them from entering our hallowed, prosperous land? Should we shoot them if they try to sneak in?

And why is it you don't want them here anyway? I met a lot of really nice Polish people in Edinburgh and elsewhere. You would appear to disagree and your language suggests they were some kind of plague. You will find lots of like-minded friends ready to support your xenophobic (sic racist) views in the BNP.

What is it that offends/scares you about these people? Their skin colour, heritage, strange food and language? Are you afraid they will place strange curses on our children? Or somehow infect us with their strange foreign ways?

I shouldn't bite, but I have to respond, as I really find your attitude so offensive. Terrible.

:top marks

[hibsbollah]

If we dont stop this tsunami/flood/swamp/*insert waterbased metaphor* of migrants there'll be no room left in this country for all our xenophobes and bigots.

[Pretty Boy]

If we dont stop this tsunami/flood/swamp/*insert waterbased metaphor* of migrants there'll be no room left in this country for all our xenophobes and bigots.

I blame the PC brigade, PC gone mad so it is.

What next? Can't call a spade a spade these days. Time to get back to British values, walk down some streets and hardly see a white face etc etc

*insert other Daily Mailisms, probably concerning Diana or things that cause cancer, as required.

[Hibernian Verse]

Work in a restaurant up here and the kitchen consists of 2 Romanians, three Hungarians and a Pole. They are some of the nicest guys I've met in my two years in Aberdeen and are very hard working and helpful when things go wrong in what is a fast paced environment. We have had 3 Scottish guys try the kitchen jobs in a year and a bit and they all failed miserably and presumably went back on the dole because they couldn't hack it. Give me Eastern Europeans over the 'they're taking our jobs' brigade any day.

[Hibernian Verse]

Raged. Away for a Chinese - those pesky immigrants don't half cook a good meal.

[Scouse Hibee]

Close the borders keep everyone out, let Scotland stand alone!

[HKhibby]

Not surprised that this article has come from the Sun. I sincerely doubt the Romanian in the article is staying in the UK just because he is £50 better off. The truth is, immigration benefits the economy - and if you read a decent paper you would know this.


Immigration benefits they economy...thats right...but controlled immigration!, which is something you have not got there in Scotland...let alone the U.K.! because the immigration policy is controlled in Brussels.
Would / will people all be saying the same in a couple of years time, when yes there are about 500.000 Romanians / Bulgarians accross the whole of the U.K. including Scotland, undercutting "British jobs for Briyish workers" as a former Pm put it?, not to mention the crime rates going up, petty theft, pick pocketing in city centres, because we all know with mass immigrtation...comes crime, especially from supposed "depreived" countries!.
Then there is the issue of them not being able to speak English, but ofcoarse under European Law..you cannot dicriminate against them, you will have to employ them!...especially if they undercut someone like an electrician or plumber...just like the Poles etc.. do, then send the money they earn back to their home country...not spean it in Scotland or the U.K., also the shawdy workmanship they leave behind when they have done a job for you!
And ofcoarse under the policy of "European Union and Integration" they will be freindly and integrate...think again!, they could not care less about you or anyone...just the benefits!,
Then ofcoarse about only a few thousand will go to the U.K. for seasonal work!...but as in the last lot about nearly 1 million hit your shores!, something else massively under-estimated by a former P.M....but in the interest of European Integration and Union that is ok!...not to mention his vanity! (Blair)
Then the strain on the NHS, the Schools, etc.. etc.. etc.. the list goes on, because not one family member goes the whole family goes!, and the hangers on etc..

One last comment / observation..call it what you like, "one nation..under Labour"?...well thats rich coming from them!...epecially as it was them who were in Government when the last lot of immigrants were granted access, like the few thousand they said...but in reality about 1 million!, then signed up to more E.U....more E.U etc.., and not to mention, well like i said One Nation...under Labour"?....as for devolution, and the way it was formulated...which is why you now have supposedly refendums on Independance from the U.K.!...which incidentally will not happen, and if indeed Scotland ever did...well definatly more E.U.! and the plumenting Euro with it....not to mention those very freindly East European immigrants that, that ofcoarse would benefit the Independant Scottish Economy!

That all thanks to "One Nation...under Labour"!...so glad i do not live in the U.K., nor ever will again hopefully!, once every couple of years or so is enough!...if even just to notice all of the above

[Scouse Hibee]

Immigration benefits they economy...thats right...but controlled immigration!, which is something you have not got there in Scotland...let alone the U.K.! because the immigration policy is controlled in Brussels.
Would / will people all be saying the same in a couple of years time, when yes there are about 500.000 Romanians / Bulgarians accross the whole of the U.K. including Scotland, undercutting "British jobs for Briyish workers" as a former Pm put it?, not to mention the crime rates going up, petty theft, pick pocketing in city centres, because we all know with mass immigrtation...comes crime, especially from supposed "depreived" countries!.
Then there is the issue of them not being able to speak English, but ofcoarse under European Law..you cannot dicriminate against them, you will have to employ them!...especially if they undercut someone like an electrician or plumber...just like the Poles etc.. do, then send the money they earn back to their home country...not spean it in Scotland or the U.K., also the shawdy workmanship they leave behind when they have done a job for you!
And ofcoarse under the policy of "European Union and Integration" they will be freindly and integrate...think again!, they could not care less about you or anyone...just the benefits!,
Then ofcoarse about only a few thousand will go to the U.K. for seasonal work!...but as in the last lot about nearly 1 million hit your shores!, something else massively under-estimated by a former P.M....but in the interest of European Integration and Union that is ok!...not to mention his vanity! (Blair)
Then the strain on the NHS, the Schools, etc.. etc.. etc.. the list goes on, because not one family member goes the whole family goes!, and the hangers on etc..

One last comment / observation..call it what you like, "one nation..under Labour"?...well thats rich coming from them!...epecially as it was them who were in Government when the last lot of immigrants were granted access, like the few thousand they said...but in reality about 1 million!, then signed up to more E.U....more E.U etc.., and not to mention, well like i said One Nation...under Labour"?....as for devolution, and the way it was formulated...which is why you now have supposedly refendums on Independance from the U.K.!...which incidentally will not happen, and if indeed Scotland ever did...well definatly more E.U.! and the plumenting Euro with it....not to mention those very freindly East European immigrants that, that ofcoarse would benefit the Independant Scottish Economy!

That all thanks to "One Nation...under Labour"!...so glad i do not live in the U.K., nor ever will again hopefully!, once every couple of years or so is enough!...if even just to notice all of the above

Your attitude will be sadly missed :rolleyes:

[Speedy]

Not surprised that this article has come from the Sun. I sincerely doubt the Romanian in the article is staying in the UK just because he is £50 better off. The truth is, immigration benefits the economy - and if you read a decent paper you would know this.

£800ish better off per month.

[Hibs Class]

Many - if not most - of "them" certainly speak better english than hkhibby types it. He is also right that immigration can bring benefits. For example, when he became an immigrant to HK I believe that the UK benefited hugely.

[Scouse Hibee]

Many - if not most - of "them" certainly speak better english than hkhibby types it. He is also right that immigration can bring benefits. For example, when he became an immigrant to HK I believe that the UK benefited hugely.

:greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

Immigration benefits they economy...thats right...but controlled immigration!, which is something you have not got there in Scotland...let alone the U.K.! because the immigration policy is controlled in Brussels.
Would / will people all be saying the same in a couple of years time, when yes there are about 500.000 Romanians / Bulgarians accross the whole of the U.K. including Scotland, undercutting "British jobs for Briyish workers" as a former Pm put it?, not to mention the crime rates going up, petty theft, pick pocketing in city centres, because we all know with mass immigrtation...comes crime, especially from supposed "depreived" countries!.
Then there is the issue of them not being able to speak English, but ofcoarse under European Law..you cannot dicriminate against them, you will have to employ them!...especially if they undercut someone like an electrician or plumber...just like the Poles etc.. do, then send the money they earn back to their home country...not spean it in Scotland or the U.K., also the shawdy workmanship they leave behind when they have done a job for you!
And ofcoarse under the policy of "European Union and Integration" they will be freindly and integrate...think again!, they could not care less about you or anyone...just the benefits!,
Then ofcoarse about only a few thousand will go to the U.K. for seasonal work!...but as in the last lot about nearly 1 million hit your shores!, something else massively under-estimated by a former P.M....but in the interest of European Integration and Union that is ok!...not to mention his vanity! (Blair)
Then the strain on the NHS, the Schools, etc.. etc.. etc.. the list goes on, because not one family member goes the whole family goes!, and the hangers on etc..

One last comment / observation..call it what you like, "one nation..under Labour"?...well thats rich coming from them!...epecially as it was them who were in Government when the last lot of immigrants were granted access, like the few thousand they said...but in reality about 1 million!, then signed up to more E.U....more E.U etc.., and not to mention, well like i said One Nation...under Labour"?....as for devolution, and the way it was formulated...which is why you now have supposedly refendums on Independance from the U.K.!...which incidentally will not happen, and if indeed Scotland ever did...well definatly more E.U.! and the plumenting Euro with it....not to mention those very freindly East European immigrants that, that ofcoarse would benefit the Independant Scottish Economy!

That all thanks to "One Nation...under Labour"!...so glad i do not live in the U.K., nor ever will again hopefully!, once every couple of years or so is enough!...if even just to notice all of the above

So you keep saying and can I just say there are many residents here who will be forever grateful to you for that

[Twa Cairpets]

Immigration benefits they economy...thats right...but controlled immigration!, which is something you have not got there in Scotland...let alone the U.K.! because the immigration policy is controlled in Brussels.
Would / will people all be saying the same in a couple of years time, when yes there are about 500.000 Romanians / Bulgarians accross the whole of the U.K. including Scotland, undercutting "British jobs for Briyish workers" as a former Pm put it?, not to mention the crime rates going up, petty theft, pick pocketing in city centres, because we all know with mass immigrtation...comes crime, especially from supposed "depreived" countries!.
Then there is the issue of them not being able to speak English, but ofcoarse under European Law..you cannot dicriminate against them, you will have to employ them!...especially if they undercut someone like an electrician or plumber...just like the Poles etc.. do, then send the money they earn back to their home country...not spean it in Scotland or the U.K., also the shawdy workmanship they leave behind when they have done a job for you!
And ofcoarse under the policy of "European Union and Integration" they will be freindly and integrate...think again!, they could not care less about you or anyone...just the benefits!,
Then ofcoarse about only a few thousand will go to the U.K. for seasonal work!...but as in the last lot about nearly 1 million hit your shores!, something else massively under-estimated by a former P.M....but in the interest of European Integration and Union that is ok!...not to mention his vanity! (Blair)
Then the strain on the NHS, the Schools, etc.. etc.. etc.. the list goes on, because not one family member goes the whole family goes!, and the hangers on etc..

One last comment / observation..call it what you like, "one nation..under Labour"?...well thats rich coming from them!...epecially as it was them who were in Government when the last lot of immigrants were granted access, like the few thousand they said...but in reality about 1 million!, then signed up to more E.U....more E.U etc.., and not to mention, well like i said One Nation...under Labour"?....as for devolution, and the way it was formulated...which is why you now have supposedly refendums on Independance from the U.K.!...which incidentally will not happen, and if indeed Scotland ever did...well definatly more E.U.! and the plumenting Euro with it....not to mention those very freindly East European immigrants that, that ofcoarse would benefit the Independant Scottish Economy!

That all thanks to "One Nation...under Labour"!...so glad i do not live in the U.K., nor ever will again hopefully!, once every couple of years or so is enough!...if even just to notice all of the above

Nuttier than a bag of squirrel keech, and every bit as unpleasant.

Seriously, isn't it tiring to be outraged so much?

[stoneyburn hibs]

Immigration benefits they economy...thats right...but controlled immigration!, which is something you have not got there in Scotland...let alone the U.K.! because the immigration policy is controlled in Brussels.
Would / will people all be saying the same in a couple of years time, when yes there are about 500.000 Romanians / Bulgarians accross the whole of the U.K. including Scotland, undercutting "British jobs for Briyish workers" as a former Pm put it?, not to mention the crime rates going up, petty theft, pick pocketing in city centres, because we all know with mass immigrtation...comes crime, especially from supposed "depreived" countries!.
Then there is the issue of them not being able to speak English, but ofcoarse under European Law..you cannot dicriminate against them, you will have to employ them!...especially if they undercut someone like an electrician or plumber...just like the Poles etc.. do, then send the money they earn back to their home country...not spean it in Scotland or the U.K., also the shawdy workmanship they leave behind when they have done a job for you!
And ofcoarse under the policy of "European Union and Integration" they will be freindly and integrate...think again!, they could not care less about you or anyone...just the benefits!,
Then ofcoarse about only a few thousand will go to the U.K. for seasonal work!...but as in the last lot about nearly 1 million hit your shores!, something else massively under-estimated by a former P.M....but in the interest of European Integration and Union that is ok!...not to mention his vanity! (Blair)
Then the strain on the NHS, the Schools, etc.. etc.. etc.. the list goes on, because not one family member goes the whole family goes!, and the hangers on etc..

One last comment / observation..call it what you like, "one nation..under Labour"?...well thats rich coming from them!...epecially as it was them who were in Government when the last lot of immigrants were granted access, like the few thousand they said...but in reality about 1 million!, then signed up to more E.U....more E.U etc.., and not to mention, well like i said One Nation...under Labour"?....as for devolution, and the way it was formulated...which is why you now have supposedly refendums on Independance from the U.K.!...which incidentally will not happen, and if indeed Scotland ever did...well definatly more E.U.! and the plumenting Euro with it....not to mention those very freindly East European immigrants that, that ofcoarse would benefit the Independant Scottish Economy!

That all thanks to "One Nation...under Labour"!...so glad i do not live in the U.K., nor ever will again hopefully!, once every couple of years or so is enough!...if even just to notice all of the above

You dinnae half spout some p1sh

[Pretty Boy]

Immigration benefits they economy...thats right...but controlled immigration!, which is something you have not got there in Scotland...let alone the U.K.! because the immigration policy is controlled in Brussels.
Would / will people all be saying the same in a couple of years time, when yes there are about 500.000 Romanians / Bulgarians accross the whole of the U.K. including Scotland, undercutting "British jobs for Briyish workers" as a former Pm put it?, not to mention the crime rates going up, petty theft, pick pocketing in city centres, because we all know with mass immigrtation...comes crime, especially from supposed "depreived" countries!.
Then there is the issue of them not being able to speak English, but ofcoarse under European Law..you cannot dicriminate against them, you will have to employ them!...especially if they undercut someone like an electrician or plumber...just like the Poles etc.. do, then send the money they earn back to their home country...not spean it in Scotland or the U.K., also the shawdy workmanship they leave behind when they have done a job for you!
And ofcoarse under the policy of "European Union and Integration" they will be freindly and integrate...think again!, they could not care less about you or anyone...just the benefits!,
Then ofcoarse about only a few thousand will go to the U.K. for seasonal work!...but as in the last lot about nearly 1 million hit your shores!, something else massively under-estimated by a former P.M....but in the interest of European Integration and Union that is ok!...not to mention his vanity! (Blair)
Then the strain on the NHS, the Schools, etc.. etc.. etc.. the list goes on, because not one family member goes the whole family goes!, and the hangers on etc..

One last comment / observation..call it what you like, "one nation..under Labour"?...well thats rich coming from them!...epecially as it was them who were in Government when the last lot of immigrants were granted access, like the few thousand they said...but in reality about 1 million!, then signed up to more E.U....more E.U etc.., and not to mention, well like i said One Nation...under Labour"?....as for devolution, and the way it was formulated...which is why you now have supposedly refendums on Independance from the U.K.!...which incidentally will not happen, and if indeed Scotland ever did...well definatly more E.U.! and the plumenting Euro with it....not to mention those very freindly East European immigrants that, that ofcoarse would benefit the Independant Scottish Economy!

That all thanks to "One Nation...under Labour"!...so glad i do not live in the U.K., nor ever will again hopefully!, once every couple of years or so is enough!...if even just to notice all of the above

You.....really.....are at.....the wind.....up eh??!.....

[The Green Goblin]

You are aware that I am not FalkirkHibby, yeah? :confused:

It's ok, you can save the apology.

No, I wasn't. But.... you all sound the same to me (see what I did there?)

Post edited. Feel free to respond to it properly at some point.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Thing that surprises me about HKhibby is that he is obviously not educated at Eton or Oxbridge. (or if he was, they failed). Kinda proves that there is support for the Tories within the underclasses and uneducated. As previously said, the UK definitely benefitted from him moving away.

[hibsbollah]

So you keep saying and can I just say there are many residents here who will be forever grateful to you for that

:greengrin :top marks

[Phil D. Rolls]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4637926/Wave-of-Romanian-and-Bulgarian-immigrants-is-threatening-to-swamp-Britain.html



They said 10k Poles would come, turned out to be well over a million. Are we going to allow this to happen again? :confused:

What affect will 1,000,000 people looking for a house have on my property value?

Seriously though what problems have 1,000,000 Poles coming to Britain caused?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Immigration benefits they economy...thats right...but controlled immigration!, which is something you have not got there in Scotland...let alone the U.K.! because the immigration policy is controlled in Brussels.
Would / will people all be saying the same in a couple of years time, when yes there are about 500.000 Romanians / Bulgarians accross the whole of the U.K. including Scotland, undercutting "British jobs for Briyish workers" as a former Pm put it?, not to mention the crime rates going up, petty theft, pick pocketing in city centres, because we all know with mass immigrtation...comes crime, especially from supposed "depreived" countries!.
Then there is the issue of them not being able to speak English, but ofcoarse under European Law..you cannot dicriminate against them, you will have to employ them!...especially if they undercut someone like an electrician or plumber...just like the Poles etc.. do, then send the money they earn back to their home country...not spean it in Scotland or the U.K., also the shawdy workmanship they leave behind when they have done a job for you!
And ofcoarse under the policy of "European Union and Integration" they will be freindly and integrate...think again!, they could not care less about you or anyone...just the benefits!,
Then ofcoarse about only a few thousand will go to the U.K. for seasonal work!...but as in the last lot about nearly 1 million hit your shores!, something else massively under-estimated by a former P.M....but in the interest of European Integration and Union that is ok!...not to mention his vanity! (Blair)
Then the strain on the NHS, the Schools, etc.. etc.. etc.. the list goes on, because not one family member goes the whole family goes!, and the hangers on etc..

One last comment / observation..call it what you like, "one nation..under Labour"?...well thats rich coming from them!...epecially as it was them who were in Government when the last lot of immigrants were granted access, like the few thousand they said...but in reality about 1 million!, then signed up to more E.U....more E.U etc.., and not to mention, well like i said One Nation...under Labour"?....as for devolution, and the way it was formulated...which is why you now have supposedly refendums on Independance from the U.K.!...which incidentally will not happen, and if indeed Scotland ever did...well definatly more E.U.! and the plumenting Euro with it....not to mention those very freindly East European immigrants that, that ofcoarse would benefit the Independant Scottish Economy!

That all thanks to "One Nation...under Labour"!...so glad i do not live in the U.K., nor ever will again hopefully!, once every couple of years or so is enough!...if even just to notice all of the above

You are Tokyo Rose and I claim my £5.

It's nice that you worry about us - I only hope that the immigrants we do get are able to use a spell checker.

[SHODAN]

Immigration benefits they economy...thats right...but controlled immigration!, which is something you have not got there in Scotland...let alone the U.K.! because the immigration policy is controlled in Brussels.
Would / will people all be saying the same in a couple of years time, when yes there are about 500.000 Romanians / Bulgarians accross the whole of the U.K. including Scotland, undercutting "British jobs for Briyish workers" as a former Pm put it?, not to mention the crime rates going up, petty theft, pick pocketing in city centres, because we all know with mass immigrtation...comes crime, especially from supposed "depreived" countries!.
Then there is the issue of them not being able to speak English, but ofcoarse under European Law..you cannot dicriminate against them, you will have to employ them!...especially if they undercut someone like an electrician or plumber...just like the Poles etc.. do, then send the money they earn back to their home country...not spean it in Scotland or the U.K., also the shawdy workmanship they leave behind when they have done a job for you!
And ofcoarse under the policy of "European Union and Integration" they will be freindly and integrate...think again!, they could not care less about you or anyone...just the benefits!,
Then ofcoarse about only a few thousand will go to the U.K. for seasonal work!...but as in the last lot about nearly 1 million hit your shores!, something else massively under-estimated by a former P.M....but in the interest of European Integration and Union that is ok!...not to mention his vanity! (Blair)
Then the strain on the NHS, the Schools, etc.. etc.. etc.. the list goes on, because not one family member goes the whole family goes!, and the hangers on etc..

One last comment / observation..call it what you like, "one nation..under Labour"?...well thats rich coming from them!...epecially as it was them who were in Government when the last lot of immigrants were granted access, like the few thousand they said...but in reality about 1 million!, then signed up to more E.U....more E.U etc.., and not to mention, well like i said One Nation...under Labour"?....as for devolution, and the way it was formulated...which is why you now have supposedly refendums on Independance from the U.K.!...which incidentally will not happen, and if indeed Scotland ever did...well definatly more E.U.! and the plumenting Euro with it....not to mention those very freindly East European immigrants that, that ofcoarse would benefit the Independant Scottish Economy!

That all thanks to "One Nation...under Labour"!...so glad i do not live in the U.K., nor ever will again hopefully!, once every couple of years or so is enough!...if even just to notice all of the above

My Polish grandfather fled to Scotland during the war, integrated fully with the community and spent practically all his waking hours down the coal mines working his arse off for my grandmother and their four children - who, incidentally, I'm sure you'll want to send somewhere else despite the fact that they were born and raised here - was a model citizen, and never put a foot wrong right until the day he died. Despite that he more than likely had to put up with 24 hours of the above from people like you - who know absolutely nothing about the backgrounds and values of the people they're abusing. But hey, that is the dictionary definition of bigotry.

[yeezus.]

Immigration benefits they economy...thats right...but controlled immigration!, which is something you have not got there in Scotland...let alone the U.K.! because the immigration policy is controlled in Brussels.
Would / will people all be saying the same in a couple of years time, when yes there are about 500.000 Romanians / Bulgarians accross the whole of the U.K. including Scotland, undercutting "British jobs for Briyish workers" as a former Pm put it?, not to mention the crime rates going up, petty theft, pick pocketing in city centres, because we all know with mass immigrtation...comes crime, especially from supposed "depreived" countries!.
Then there is the issue of them not being able to speak English, but ofcoarse under European Law..you cannot dicriminate against them, you will have to employ them!...especially if they undercut someone like an electrician or plumber...just like the Poles etc.. do, then send the money they earn back to their home country...not spean it in Scotland or the U.K., also the shawdy workmanship they leave behind when they have done a job for you!
And ofcoarse under the policy of "European Union and Integration" they will be freindly and integrate...think again!, they could not care less about you or anyone...just the benefits!,
Then ofcoarse about only a few thousand will go to the U.K. for seasonal work!...but as in the last lot about nearly 1 million hit your shores!, something else massively under-estimated by a former P.M....but in the interest of European Integration and Union that is ok!...not to mention his vanity! (Blair)
Then the strain on the NHS, the Schools, etc.. etc.. etc.. the list goes on, because not one family member goes the whole family goes!, and the hangers on etc..

One last comment / observation..call it what you like, "one nation..under Labour"?...well thats rich coming from them!...epecially as it was them who were in Government when the last lot of immigrants were granted access, like the few thousand they said...but in reality about 1 million!, then signed up to more E.U....more E.U etc.., and not to mention, well like i said One Nation...under Labour"?....as for devolution, and the way it was formulated...which is why you now have supposedly refendums on Independance from the U.K.!...which incidentally will not happen, and if indeed Scotland ever did...well definatly more E.U.! and the plumenting Euro with it....not to mention those very freindly East European immigrants that, that ofcoarse would benefit the Independant Scottish Economy!

That all thanks to "One Nation...under Labour"!...so glad i do not live in the U.K., nor ever will again hopefully!, once every couple of years or so is enough!...if even just to notice all of the above

You should maybe look in to changing your avatar to a Ranger's badge.

I'm struggling to understand your bit on the EU. Alex Salmond isn't offering a radical independence option - apparently an independent Scotland would still have the pound and the monarchy.

There is a good book called "Immigrants: Your country needs them" which you should read. When immigrants arrive they have to work - as much a you would like to believe differently, they can't just come to the UK and claim benefits.

[RyeSloan]

I think the Sun forgets that migration is normally an economic decision...with Britain hardly zooming up the GDP tables there may well be considerably less reason for Eastern Europeans to come to Britain than there was the last time the EU was enlarged.
There is though clear evidence that sudden and substantial immigration by largely non English speaking workers can and does put severe stress on public services as well as the communities that ‘suffer’ it.…often the immigration is concentrated in certain areas that have not planned or foreseen such an influx. These are genuine issues so shouldn't just be ignored. Some of the housing situation in London where people are literally living in sheds shows just some of the issues this can bring.

To be clear however Britain needs immigration to continue to grow and we are legally bound to do so as part of EU enlargement. However I also believe in everything in moderation….

[Beefster]

When immigrants arrive they have to work - as much a you would like to believe differently, they can't just come to the UK and claim benefits.

The situation isn't nearly as clear cut as that. Non-EU immigrants, EU immigrants and asylum seekers are all treated differently where benefits are concerned AFAIK.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think the Sun forgets that migration is normally an economic decision...with Britain hardly zooming up the GDP tables there may well be considerably less reason for Eastern Europeans to come to Britain than there was the last time the EU was enlarged.
There is though clear evidence that sudden and substantial immigration by largely non English speaking workers can and does put severe stress on public services as well as the communities that ‘suffer’ it.…often the immigration is concentrated in certain areas that have not planned or foreseen such an influx. These are genuine issues so shouldn't just be ignored. Some of the housing situation in London where people are literally living in sheds shows just some of the issues this can bring.

To be clear however Britain needs immigration to continue to grow and we are legally bound to do so as part of EU enlargement. However I also believe in everything in moderation….

It increases demand for property. The last housing boom seemed to coincide with the last influx of immigrants.

[LeighLoyal]

There is a good book called "Immigrants: Your country needs them" which you should read. When immigrants arrive they have to work - as much a you would like to believe differently, they can't just come to the UK and claim benefits.



EU migrants are entitled to claim benefits when they arrive here, the 12 month restriction was lifted in 2011 because it conflicted with EU freedom of movement laws. EU membership is just one huge fiscal and social disaster that is only going to deepen. Some will say it's good to be a soft touch but hardly the case when we're borrowing billions just to cover basic expenditures. The reality of the Greek situation will be the norm if this continues, no other possibility, and we've seen what's happened there - near revolution. I do fear for the future of particularly working class Scottish youth.

[yeezus.]

EU migrants are entitled to claim benefits when they arrive here, the 12 month restriction was lifted in 2011 because it conflicted with EU freedom of movement laws. EU membership is just one huge fiscal and social disaster that is only going to deepen. Some will say it's good to be a soft touch but hardly the case when we're borrowing billions just to cover basic expenditures. The reality of the Greek situation will be the norm if this continues, no other possibility, and we've seen what's happened there - near revolution. I do fear for the future of particularly working class Scottish youth.

Well if you keep reading paper's like the Sun it's hardly any wonder you fear forthe working class youth - and if you are so concerned about them you should focus your attention on the very wealthy tax avoiders - not immigrants.

[lapsedhibee]

If we dont stop this tsunami/flood/swamp/*insert waterbased metaphor* of migrants there'll be no room left in this country for all our xenophobes and bigots.

I'm wondering now. Can you have rivers of immigrants, or just their blood? :dunno:

[Saorsa]

Many - if not most - of "them" certainly speak better english than hkhibby types it. He is also right that immigration can bring benefits. For example, when he became an immigrant to HK I believe that the UK benefited hugely.:hilarious

[Phil D. Rolls]

EU migrants are entitled to claim benefits when they arrive here, the 12 month restriction was lifted in 2011 because it conflicted with EU freedom of movement laws. EU membership is just one huge fiscal and social disaster that is only going to deepen. Some will say it's good to be a soft touch but hardly the case when we're borrowing billions just to cover basic expenditures. The reality of the Greek situation will be the norm if this continues, no other possibility, and we've seen what's happened there - near revolution. I do fear for the future of particularly working class Scottish youth.

You sound like you're recruiting for the BNP.

[easty]

Immigration benefits they economy...thats right...but controlled immigration!, which is something you have not got there in Scotland...let alone the U.K.! because the immigration policy is controlled in Brussels.
Would / will people all be saying the same in a couple of years time, when yes there are about 500.000 Romanians / Bulgarians accross the whole of the U.K. including Scotland, undercutting "British jobs for Briyish workers" as a former Pm put it?, not to mention the crime rates going up, petty theft, pick pocketing in city centres, because we all know with mass immigrtation...comes crime, especially from supposed "depreived" countries!.
Then there is the issue of them not being able to speak English, but ofcoarse under European Law..you cannot dicriminate against them, you will have to employ them!...especially if they undercut someone like an electrician or plumber...just like the Poles etc.. do, then send the money they earn back to their home country...not spean it in Scotland or the U.K., also the shawdy workmanship they leave behind when they have done a job for you!
And ofcoarse under the policy of "European Union and Integration" they will be freindly and integrate...think again!, they could not care less about you or anyone...just the benefits!,
Then ofcoarse about only a few thousand will go to the U.K. for seasonal work!...but as in the last lot about nearly 1 million hit your shores!, something else massively under-estimated by a former P.M....but in the interest of European Integration and Union that is ok!...not to mention his vanity! (Blair)
Then the strain on the NHS, the Schools, etc.. etc.. etc.. the list goes on, because not one family member goes the whole family goes!, and the hangers on etc..

One last comment / observation..call it what you like, "one nation..under Labour"?...well thats rich coming from them!...epecially as it was them who were in Government when the last lot of immigrants were granted access, like the few thousand they said...but in reality about 1 million!, then signed up to more E.U....more E.U etc.., and not to mention, well like i said One Nation...under Labour"?....as for devolution, and the way it was formulated...which is why you now have supposedly refendums on Independance from the U.K.!...which incidentally will not happen, and if indeed Scotland ever did...well definatly more E.U.! and the plumenting Euro with it....not to mention those very freindly East European immigrants that, that ofcoarse would benefit the Independant Scottish Economy!

That all thanks to "One Nation...under Labour"!...so glad i do not live in the U.K., nor ever will again hopefully!, once every couple of years or so is enough!...if even just to notice all of the above

One of these days I reckon the true identity of HK will be revealed, I reckon it'll be a massive shock to us all. It'll be a Kevin Spacey/Kaiser Soze moment where we've all been fooled. Until then I'll just keep enjoying the anti-Labour, I'm glad I dont live in Britain, Tony Blair is the devil rants.

[Phil D. Rolls]

One of these days I reckon the true identity of HK will be revealed, I reckon it'll be a massive shock to us all. It'll be a Kevin Spacey/Kaiser Soze moment where we've all been fooled. Until then I'll just keep enjoying the anti-Labour, I'm glad I dont live in Britain, Tony Blair is the devil rants.

It's usually the owner of a failing amusement park, or aquarium - in Scooby Doo anyway.

[LeighLoyal]

You sound like you're recruiting for the BNP.



Why not go the whole hog and pull out the Nazi word for daring to post a news link and respond to misinformation on EU migrant benefit entitlements? You've already skipped UKIP and went for the BNP slur, may as go one better and invoke the spirit of Hitler and death camps. The knee jerk reaction that traditional socialists feel for any discussion of this topic is predictable as it is nauseating. We have a failed Euro zone and a massive disparity in wages and social policy within the EU zone that is going to mean more and more migration. It should be discussed without hysteria, just because I'm anti EU and pro border control doesn't I support race politics. I knew I'd be attacked in a base way for posting that news link but cest la vie, debate is better than silence.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Why not go the whole hog and pull out the Nazi word for daring to post a news link and respond to misinformation on EU migrant benefit entitlements? You've already skipped UKIP and went for the BNP slur, may as go one better and invoke the spirit of Hitler and death camps. The knee jerk reaction that traditional socialists feel for any discussion of this topic is predictable as it is nauseating. We have a failed Euro zone and a massive disparity in wages and social policy within the EU zone that is going to mean more and more migration. It should be discussed without hysteria, just because I'm anti EU and pro border control doesn't I support race politics. I knew I'd be attacked in a base way for posting that news link but cest la vie, debate is better than silence.

Well the BNP are Nazis aren't they?

As for hysteria, all I said was you sound like you are recriting for the neo-fascist BNP You are saying I am a socialist, I'm not. I'm taking a pragmatic view of a global economy - if people want to move they will.

If you think that the last influx of immigrants has caused a problem, could you specify where? Then we can debate whether there is a problem to be fixed.

[Beefster]

If you think that the last influx of immigrants has caused a problem, could you specify where?

According to Labour/Ed Miliband, the unrestricted immigration from the new EU countries of the mid-2000s was responsible for the lowering of wages, some British people being 'locked out' of the employment market and massive pressures on public services.

[hibsbollah]

Why not go the whole hog and pull out the Nazi word for daring to post a news link and respond to misinformation on EU migrant benefit entitlements? You've already skipped UKIP and went for the BNP slur, may as go one better and invoke the spirit of Hitler and death camps. The knee jerk reaction that traditional socialists feel for any discussion of this topic is predictable as it is nauseating. We have a failed Euro zone and a massive disparity in wages and social policy within the EU zone that is going to mean more and more migration. It should be discussed without hysteria, just because I'm anti EU and pro border control doesn't I support race politics. I knew I'd be attacked in a base way for posting that news link but cest la vie, debate is better than silence.

The folk that have posted on this thread are far from 'traditional socialists':faf: The BNP and their race-obsessed ilk tend to a) accuse moderates of being socialists, b)rant about immigration and c) rage against Islam. You've done all of these things on here recently, so you can hardly complain about sounding like a recruiter for the BNP, because that's exactly what you DO sound like.

[Phil D. Rolls]

According to Labour/Ed Miliband, the unrestricted immigration from the new EU countries of the mid-2000s was responsible for the lowering of wages, some British people being 'locked out' of the employment market and massive pressures on public services.

That is possibly true, just as German wages were affected by British workers going over there in the 80s. I think the biggest pressure on public resources has been bailing out the banks tbh. Something that immigrants can't be blamed for.

Other people did well out of the boom in property prices, particularly those who had seen the opportunities in buy to let.

[Future17]

Why not go the whole hog and pull out the Nazi word for daring to post a news link and respond to misinformation on EU migrant benefit entitlements? You've already skipped UKIP and went for the BNP slur, may as go one better and invoke the spirit of Hitler and death camps. The knee jerk reaction that traditional socialists feel for any discussion of this topic is predictable as it is nauseating. We have a failed Euro zone and a massive disparity in wages and social policy within the EU zone that is going to mean more and more migration. It should be discussed without hysteria, just because I'm anti EU and pro border control doesn't I support race politics. I knew I'd be attacked in a base way for posting that news link but cest la vie, debate is better than silence.

:sauzee: Damn Scots, staying in Scotland, stealing our language! :sauzee:

:greengrin

[Gatecrasher]

I dont think there is anything wrong with controlling who comes into your country. I dont think we should just allow all who want to come here, the fact is there isn't a lot of jobs around at the moment and our infrastructure couldn't handle (some sectors are already struggling). Saying that there are a few polish guys who go to my gym and they are sound, they are also a lot harder working than some of the lazy bassa's i grew up with.

[yeezus.]

According to Labour/Ed Miliband, the unrestricted immigration from the new EU countries of the mid-2000s was responsible for the lowering of wages, some British people being 'locked out' of the employment market and massive pressures on public services.

I think that is an attempt to win back some Daily Mail reading voters.

[Pete]

BNP, Nazis, daily mail...any others?

Come on. Surely those who aren't left wing and have dared to share an opinion which might involve restricted immigration can suggest others that automatically come up.

[yeezus.]

BNP, Nazis, daily mail...any others?

Come on. Surely those who aren't left wing and have dared to share an opinion which might involve restricted immigration can suggest others that automatically come up.

Did you read the Sun's article? "Tidal wave, working illegally for cash" - show us an article that clearly lays out the economic case against immigration and I'll take it seriously.

[Phil D. Rolls]

BNP, Nazis, daily mail...any others?

Come on. Surely those who aren't left wing and have dared to share an opinion which might involve restricted immigration can suggest others that automatically come up.

I've nothing against reasoned arguments that can illustrate the problems that immigration has caused, in a balanced manner. I do have concerns about uncontrolled immigration, in the sense that if too many people arrive at the same time, it can be difficult to manage.

[NOLA]

the polish have been great since they started coming to edinburgh, ive met many friends through work and of course from living in little krakov (leith) :greengrin the only romanians ive seen in the city have been the women begging and selling the big issue, the poles i know arent too happy with the thought of an influx of romanians, seems to be some bad blood which i havent got to the bottom of yet.

[Beefster]

I think that is an attempt to win back some Daily Mail reading voters.

Ed Miliband lying to the electorate?

Incidentally, I'd imagine that stereotyping all Daily Mail readers as racists and bigots is about as truthful as stating all Guardian readers are muesli-eating, liberal city-dwellers and all Telegraph readers are ex-Military officers who now live in Surrey.

[lapsedhibee]

I'd imagine that stereotyping all Daily Mail readers as racists and bigots is about as truthful as stating all Guardian readers are muesli-eating, liberal city-dwellers and all Telegraph readers are ex-Military officers who now live in Surrey.

What are you suggesting here, that all generalisations are bad? :wink:

[yeezus.]

Ed Miliband lying to the electorate?

Incidentally, I'd imagine that stereotyping all Daily Mail readers as racists and bigots is about as truthful as stating all Guardian readers are muesli-eating, liberal city-dwellers and all Telegraph readers are ex-Military officers who now live in Surrey.

I don't think all Daily Mail voters are racist neither do I think all who oppose immigration are - I just think this is a case of Labour trying to sound tough on immigration to win back certain voters.

[khib70]

Down with this sort of thing!
Careful now!

[khib70]

The folk that have posted on this thread are far from 'traditional socialists':faf: The BNP and their race-obsessed ilk tend to a) accuse moderates of being socialists, b)rant about immigration and c) rage against Islam. You've done all of these things on here recently, so you can hardly complain about sounding like a recruiter for the BNP, because that's exactly what you DO sound like.
:top marks
Speaking as a non-traditional, non-socialist, you're right on the money there HB. Though I think the BNP might find him and HK Hibby a bit extreme......

[GhostofBolivar]

It's always the Poles and other Eastern European nationalities that come in for this. You never hear anything about Americans or Canadians or Australians. You don't read stories about how thousands of Spaniards are emigrating because their economy's shot and unemployment's rife. The Irish seem perfectly welcome. No. It's the Eastern Europeans who get it.

Why is that, I wonder?

[johnbc70]

I think the Sun forgets that migration is normally an economic decision...with Britain hardly zooming up the GDP tables there may well be considerably less reason for Eastern Europeans to come to Britain than there was the last time the EU was enlarged.
There is though clear evidence that sudden and substantial immigration by largely non English speaking workers can and does put severe stress on public services as well as the communities that ‘suffer’ it.…often the immigration is concentrated in certain areas that have not planned or foreseen such an influx. These are genuine issues so shouldn't just be ignored. Some of the housing situation in London where people are literally living in sheds shows just some of the issues this can bring.

To be clear however Britain needs immigration to continue to grow and we are legally bound to do so as part of EU enlargement. However I also believe in everything in moderation….

You make a good point as there is in some or many cases concerns on how immigration impacts local services. My daughter has recently started primary school and in her class of 20 there are 12 polish children who have English as an additional language. Her best friend is a wee polish girl and all that I have met have been great. However that does not stop me having concerns around how the school and the local authority are managing this and yes I am concerned that does the teacher have to spend more time with the children that have additional language needs? I spoke to the school and I am happy the teacher has the right support and this is being managed well. There is an impact on local services and people have genuine concerns. It sometimes feels if you raise anything to do with immigration and question it you are a racist, facist or BNP member!

[yeezus.]

It's always the Poles and other Eastern European nationalities that come in for this. You never hear anything about Americans or Canadians or Australians. You don't read stories about how thousands of Spaniards are emigrating because their economy's shot and unemployment's rife. The Irish seem perfectly welcome. No. It's the Eastern Europeans who get it.

Why is that, I wonder?

:agree: maybe they don't like their accents.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You make a good point as there is in some or many cases concerns on how immigration impacts local services. My daughter has recently started primary school and in her class of 20 there are 12 polish children who have English as an additional language. Her best friend is a wee polish girl and all that I have met have been great. However that does not stop me having concerns around how the school and the local authority are managing this and yes I am concerned that does the teacher have to spend more time with the children that have additional language needs? I spoke to the school and I am happy the teacher has the right support and this is being managed well. There is an impact on local services and people have genuine concerns. It sometimes feels if you raise anything to do with immigration and question it you are a racist, facist or BNP member!

I don't think questioning immigration makes you a racist or a fascist. It is more what you object to about it. I see that we have to be pragmatic, what I don't see is the threat to jobs that is so often spoken about; and I really get alarmed when people start talking about "Scottish working class youth", as if they are entitled to some protection from the global market.

I can trace my family tree back to the fifteenth century, all Scots from around the Crieff/Blackford/Aucheterarder area. As far as I am concerned though, that should not give me any special priviledge in finding a job, or where I live. I am free to move elsewhere, as others have done, if the economic situation here is not to my liking.

I think the thing that does stick in the craw, is the concept that people who have not paid into the country for any period of time, and have no obligation to do so, are entitled to benefits and access to the NHS. We have enough problem with the generations of scroungers whose families have never put anything in, without opening the door to more people wanting something for nothing.

If anyone thinks that immigrants are not having to do the hardest work, ask yourself this. How many Poles work in your local bank; how many of thnurses in the NHS are from overseas; how many care workers in the private sector are immigrants; who would you rather be served by at McDonald's, a surly Scottish kid that thought his degree in media studies was the pasport to the riches that were his birthright, or a Polish immigrant, able to speak four languages and who has no expectation other than the right to work for a living?

I'm not sure I know myself. I just want to see a fair system where people are judged on their merits as people, and what they can do for society. Positive discrimination and protectionism will not bring those things about.

Scots have been one of the nationalities that has emigrated more than any. Lots of the things that are being said about newcomers to Scotland - a country that has the most diverse gene pool in Europe - have been said about Scots in other countries. We have taken advantage of freedom of movement, why shouldn't others?

[Hibrandenburg]

I don't think questioning immigration makes you a racist or a fascist. It is more what you object to about it. I see that we have to be pragmatic, what I don't see is the threat to jobs that is so often spoken about; and I really get alarmed when people start talking about "Scottish working class youth", as if they are entitled to some protection from the global market.

I can trace my family tree back to the fifteenth century, all Scots from around the Crieff/Blackford/Aucheterarder area. As far as I am concerned though, that should not give me any special priviledge in finding a job, or where I live. I am free to move elsewhere, as others have done, if the economic situation here is not to my liking.

I think the thing that does stick in the craw, is the concept that people who have not paid into the country for any period of time, and have no obligation to do so, are entitled to benefits and access to the NHS. We have enough problem with the generations of scroungers whose families have never put anything in, without opening the door to more people wanting something for nothing.

If anyone thinks that immigrants are not having to do the hardest work, ask yourself this. How many Poles work in your local bank; how many of thnurses in the NHS are from overseas; how many care workers in the private sector are immigrants; who would you rather be served by at McDonald's, a surly Scottish kid that thought his degree in media studies was the pasport to the riches that were his birthright, or a Polish immigrant, able to speak four languages and who has no expectation other than the right to work for a living?

I'm not sure I know myself. I just want to see a fair system where people are judged on their merits as people, and what they can do for society. Positive discrimination and protectionism will not bring those things about.

Scots have been one of the nationalities that has emigrated more than any. Lots of the things that are being said about newcomers to Scotland - a country that has the most diverse gene pool in Europe - have been said about Scots in other countries. We have taken advantage of freedom of movement, why shouldn't others?

:top marks

[Beefster]

who would you rather be served by at McDonald's, a surly Scottish kid that thought his degree in media studies was the pasport to the riches that were his birthright, or a Polish immigrant, able to speak four languages and who has no expectation other than the right to work for a living?

Given that they've had to make the effort to move to a new country, there may be a lot of truth in the belief that most EU migrants in Scotland are hard-working. There seems to be a myth taking hold though that Scottish/UK youngsters are work-shy and have an attitude problem. While that's undoubtedly true for some, I don't think it applies to the majority personally.

[VickMackie]

It's always the Poles and other Eastern European nationalities that come in for this. You never hear anything about Americans or Canadians or Australians. You don't read stories about how thousands of Spaniards are emigrating because their economy's shot and unemployment's rife. The Irish seem perfectly welcome. No. It's the Eastern Europeans who get it.

Why is that, I wonder?

Because, IIRC, we only allow 50-100 thousand non EU citizens into the uk per year. The government then use these stats, if they fall slightly, to say that immigration has fallen when in actual fact it's rising because of EU member states.

I have no objections to people moving here to try and gain a better quality of life but it needs to be controlled. This cannot be done under the eu free movement. And yes, I'm perfectly aware that I can move anywhere else but not unless I want to go and work for less money.

There's a poster above who makes a valid point about money being sent out of our economy to eastern European.

Is there any reports that show the impact on their economies of money being sent back? Is it not causing problems in those countries as I'd expect inflation to rise and making things more difficult for people who don't have a relative sending cash home? Or are the figures too small to make a difference.

[HibsMax]

I haven't read through all the replies in this thread but perhaps I can offer a slightly different point of view? Apologies if this has already been said.

As an immigrant myself I obviously think that immigration is a good thing. Any other point of view would make me a hypocrite. But I'm talking about immigrants who :
1. enter the country legally,
2. are employed legally.

There is a pretty big problem over here in the US with illegal immigrants "stealing" jobs from "more-deserving" American citizens. I don't really want to get into that particular debate, it's not quite apples to apples.

So back to the UK.

The surge that is expected in 2014 is not going to be a surge of illegal immigrants; the law changes seem to have covered that, the people will be able to move without restriction ("But the Government has to lift that employment restriction by January 1, 2014."). The problem appears to be that people can enter the UK without employment, legally, and then there is the risk that they find work illegally. THAT's a problem for a few reasons :
1. Undocumented / payment-behind-the-door men and women do not pay taxes. I shouldn't need to explain why that is a problem.
2. Every job that is given to an immigrant without proper working authority is another job that is taken away from someone who wants to work legally. It's a shame but there are employers out there who will hire people off the books (immigrants and nationals) because they can pay them less.

I don't blame the immigrants. If they can better their lives then why shouldn't they? I blame the employers who employ them because they are the ones that have it within their power to hire only people who are legally allowed to.

I have no issue with immigrants who are working legally. That's part of the reason that the EU exists, to allow people to move around. I have a very big issue with people working illegally, including immigrants. If everyone who enters the UK gets a job legally and pays their dues then there's nothing to be overly concerned about - it's good for the economy. However, if the majority of the people entering the country end up working illegally, that is a big problem and one that should not be quickly dismissed as xenophobia.

[HibsMax]

I don't think questioning immigration makes you a racist or a fascist. It is more what you object to about it. I see that we have to be pragmatic, what I don't see is the threat to jobs that is so often spoken about; and I really get alarmed when people start talking about "Scottish working class youth", as if they are entitled to some protection from the global market.

Maybe I'm not understanding exactly what you're saying but I am of the opinion that citizens should be higher up the hierarchy than immigrants. If an immigrant wants the same rights and protections as a citizen then it's up to them to work towards becoming naturalised (not sure if that's the term used in the UK). That is exactly what I had to do when I moved over here.
Step One : work visa
Step Two : Green Card
Step Three : Naturalisation

I don't think that the Scottish working class youth is entitled to protection from the global market but I think they have every right to be concerned if they are genuinely losing out because of legal immigrants working illegally - because that's one less job opportunity for them. In that regard they should expect some protection provided by the Government. I don't know how much of a problem that actually is, I'm just talking about in principle.

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe I'm not understanding exactly what you're saying but I am of the opinion that citizens should be higher up the hierarchy than immigrants. If an immigrant wants the same rights and protections as a citizen then it's up to them to work towards becoming naturalised (not sure if that's the term used in the UK). That is exactly what I had to do when I moved over here.
Step One : work visa
Step Two : Green Card
Step Three : Naturalisation

I don't think that the Scottish working class youth is entitled to protection from the global market but I think they have every right to be concerned if they are genuinely losing out because of legal immigrants working illegally - because that's one less job opportunity for them. In that regard they should expect some protection provided by the Government. I don't know how much of a problem that actually is, I'm just talking about in principle.

There's a cultural difference here, though. In economic terms, the EU is a single market and, as such, national boundaries mean less and less. The idea that "citizens should be higher up the hierarchy than immigrants", although probably culturally accepted in the U.S., goes against the principles of that single market.

That is one of the fascinating things for me about the concept of EU integration, the tension between national identity and economic reality. As the generations move on, and the older "I'm British, my father fought the Germans" attitudes die out, will they be replaced by "I'm European, we're all in this together" or "stuff these immigrants, they're taking my job." ?

[southfieldhibby]

It's always the Poles and other Eastern European nationalities that come in for this. You never hear anything about Americans or Canadians or Australians. You don't read stories about how thousands of Spaniards are emigrating because their economy's shot and unemployment's rife. The Irish seem perfectly welcome. No. It's the Eastern Europeans who get it.

Why is that, I wonder?

I find the Polish people who have moved to Edinburgh to be a terrific asset to the community, just like the Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Indian families who came before them.Working on Junction Street I have really good working and personal relationships with them.

I cannot say the same about Romanians, who I find, to a man, to be untrustworthy.Sweeping generalisation? Probably, but it's my experience.

[HibsMax]

There's a cultural difference here, though. In economic terms, the EU is a single market and, as such, national boundaries mean less and less. The idea that "citizens should be higher up the hierarchy than immigrants", although probably culturally accepted in the U.S., goes against the principles of that single market.

That is one of the fascinating things for me about the concept of EU integration, the tension between national identity and economic reality. As the generations move on, and the older "I'm British, my father fought the Germans" attitudes die out, will they be replaced by "I'm European, we're all in this together" or "stuff these immigrants, they're taking my job." ?

I hear what you're saying and the closest parallel I can find is the individual 50 states, each of which is governed at a state level (as well as federal) and, as far as I know, there are no restrictions from working in any state. I live in Mass and I work in New Hampshire. Does a Mass resident deserve to be treated like a second-class citizen than someone native to NH? I don't think so BUT I would expect New Hampshire to care more about NH residents than MA residents. I work in NH but I pay income tax to Mass, not NH (because it's based on where you work rather than where you live).

I like the idea of freedom to move around but I don't like the idea of losing your identity. Not completely. And I have no issues with people moving to live and / or work just so long as they go through the legal channels. The concern I see with the issue being discussed is not that people are moving around but that they might be at risk to work illegally after they arrive. I'm sure some do go through legal channels but I am in no position to state whether that's a minority or majority - I just don't know. The Sun article certainly paints a grim picture - probably the worst scenario.

I'm not concerned about an immigrant taking my job, I'm an immigrant too (any Jack White fans in the house?). I'm concerned about people being denied a legitimate chance to work because of someone else taking shortcuts. As I said before, it's really the employers that benefit. They get cheap labour and don't need to pay taxes or social security (I know I am being very American here). They don't need to provide benefits, paid time off, etc. There is no contract, they can treat the employee like dirt and not have to answer to anyone.

I wasn't going to get into this but I just want to say something in passing. Over here people talk about illegal immigrants stealing jobs from "poor, honest hard-working Americans". I have two things to say about that :
1. from my understanding, the jobs that the illegals are "stealing" are jobs that Americans don't even want to do, or
2. if the Americans did want to do those jobs, they would want waaaaay more money for doing it and that affects everyone. If an illegal will pick a barrel of oranges for $1 / hour and an American wants $10 / hour, you have to think about how that will affect the national price of oranges.

The reason I mentioned this is because I wonder if the same situation exists over in the UK? Are the people working illegally actually stealing employment from anyone, or are they doing a job that nobody else wants?

[VickMackie]

On the bbc radio now. Net migration is down. Applies to non eu. See my earlier point!

[lapsedhibee]

I work in NH but I pay income tax to Mass, not NH (because it's based on where you work rather than where you live).

:hmmm:

[HibsMax]

I work in NH but I pay income tax to Mass, not NH (because it's based on where you work rather than where you live).

:hmmm:

Not sure what you mean? I should have also probably mentioned that I meant State Taxes. Everyone pays Federal Tax.

[lapsedhibee]

Not sure what you mean? I should have also probably mentioned that I meant State Taxes. Everyone pays Federal Tax.

Just a bit confused by your suggesting that income tax is based on where you work (which is NH), rather than where you live (which is Mass), yet you pay income tax to Mass. Do you mean that the actual rate you pay to Mass is determined by the NH authorities rather than the Mass authorities?

[HibsMax]

Just a bit confused by your suggesting that income tax is based on where you work (which is NH), rather than where you live (which is Mass), yet you pay income tax to Mass. Do you mean that the actual rate you pay to Mass is determined by the NH authorities rather than the Mass authorities?

Before I start, please know that I am talking about individuals here, not corporations. It's quite complex and I don't know all the answers, it might even vary by state. My previous boss lives in NH and worked out of our MA office, and he had to pay state income taxes to MA (as far as I recall). But then he relocated to the NH office and then stopped paying income tax (because he wasn't in MA and NH doesn't have state income tax). There might be some agreement between different states, or maybe different states have different tax laws (tax law is a hoot!).

All I can tell you for sure is that I work in NH, live in MA and pay MA income tax of which $0.00 goes to NH.

By the way, I said income tax (at least for me) is based upon where I live, not where I work.

[lapsedhibee]

I work in NH but I pay income tax to Mass, not NH (because it's based on where you work rather than where you live).



By the way, I said income tax (at least for me) is based upon where I live, not where I work.

You naturalised Americans with your "tomatoes" and "tomatoes". :greengrin

[HibsMax]

You naturalised Americans with your "tomatoes" and "tomatoes". :greengrin

Lol. What a tool. To set the record straight, it's based on where you live, at least for Mass residents.

EDIT : ugh, as I said before it's confusing. :)
I live in MA and have worked for the same company in both MA and NH and in both cases I paid MA state taxes.
My boss lives in NH and his work pattern is the same as mine. When he worked in MA he had to pay some sort of tax (I'll check to see if it was MA state taxes) but when he relocated to the NH office, he stopped paying state income tax.

[LeighLoyal]

The UKIP policy is the only sane way forward in my view. It might be one that some on the left and media find unpalatable, but surely the alternative is far worse. Bringing down the net numbers to sub 200k a year is a step in the right direction but it's still a large number that is only going to explode again post 2014. Wholescale reform and legislation is needed, including the immediate withdrawal from the EU human rights act that Blair blindly and foolishly signed us up to.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The UKIP policy is the only sane way forward in my view. It might be one that some on the left and media find unpalatable, but surely the alternative is far worse. Bringing down the net numbers to sub 200k a year is a step in the right direction but it's still a large number that is only going to explode again post 2014. Wholescale reform and legislation is needed, including the immediate withdrawal from the EU human rights act that Blair blindly and foolishly signed us up to.

Does Human Rights have to be a bad thing? I thought that was why we fought the last war.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Maybe I'm not understanding exactly what you're saying but I am of the opinion that citizens should be higher up the hierarchy than immigrants. If an immigrant wants the same rights and protections as a citizen then it's up to them to work towards becoming naturalised (not sure if that's the term used in the UK). That is exactly what I had to do when I moved over here.
Step One : work visa
Step Two : Green Card
Step Three : Naturalisation

I don't think that the Scottish working class youth is entitled to protection from the global market but I think they have every right to be concerned if they are genuinely losing out because of legal immigrants working illegally - because that's one less job opportunity for them. In that regard they should expect some protection provided by the Government. I don't know how much of a problem that actually is, I'm just talking about in principle.

I agree about illegal immigration, it's not the only thing that puts pressure on wages though. The black economy and people undercutting each other by not paying their taxes is another factor.

I suppose the difference from what happens in the US, and what happens in Europe, is that EU is expanding the Union in big steps that appear to be ill thought out. It's like the US integrating Ontario into their national structure and giving the same rights to the Canadians as to existing citizens.

I think that the concern that people are having about abolishing the borders is the pace of change. If it happens too quickly, then places can be swamped and order breaks down. At the same time, I have concerns about a situation developing like the German one, where "guest workers" are invited to take up the slack when times are good, but have no rights when things go bad.

I am genuinely open minded about this issue, I just don't like anything that is divisive.

[heretoday]

We've got a family of Poles living in the flat beneath ours. They go out to work at odd hours. They don't half make a mess on the stair and they don't take a turn cleaning it either.

But then neither do the Scots, Chinese, African, English or Pakistani folk in the other flats. What am I saying here? Something about the fact that we live in a multi-cultural society so we may as well get on with it.

And I'm fed up being the only one who cleans the flipping stair.

[HibsMax]

Got this from my wife's uncle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=wq_lhlIn1e0

[Phil D. Rolls]

Got this from my wife's uncle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=wq_lhlIn1e0

It's that pesky channel tunnel's fault - it's got openings at both ends.

[HiBremian]

Who exactly is "us"???

[stoneyburn hibs]

We've got a family of Poles living in the flat beneath ours. They go out to work at odd hours. They don't half make a mess on the stair and they don't take a turn cleaning it either.

But then neither do the Scots, Chinese, African, English or Pakistani folk in the other flats. What am I saying here? Something about the fact that we live in a multi-cultural society so we may as well get on with it.

And I'm fed up being the only one who cleans the flipping stair.

Hire an ethnic minority to clean it :greengrin

[heretoday]

Hire an ethnic minority to clean it :greengrin

I'm waiting for the Romanians to come over!

[steakbake]

Does Human Rights have to be a bad thing? I thought that was why we fought the last war.

And why Britain initiated the European Court of Human Rights in 1959.

[Elephant Stone]

The UKIP policy is the only sane way forward in my view. It might be one that some on the left and media find unpalatable, but surely the alternative is far worse. Bringing down the net numbers to sub 200k a year is a step in the right direction but it's still a large number that is only going to explode again post 2014. Wholescale reform and legislation is needed, including the immediate withdrawal from the EU human rights act that Blair blindly and foolishly signed us up to.

The Human Rights Act has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

[VickMackie]

The UKIP policy is the only sane way forward in my view. It might be one that some on the left and media find unpalatable, but surely the alternative is far worse. Bringing down the net numbers to sub 200k a year is a step in the right direction but it's still a large number that is only going to explode again post 2014. Wholescale reform and legislation is needed, including the immediate withdrawal from the EU human rights act that Blair blindly and foolishly signed us up to.

Has anyone on this thread actually read my posts?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9711047/UK-migration-falls-by-a-quarter-as-student-and-foreign-worker-numbers-fall.html

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/november-2012/index.html

Net migration to the UK is NOT down below 200,000. The NET non EU migrants are below 200,000. This does not factor in EU migration (which is what this thread is about).

I've only been able to track down 2010 figures for EU migration but 2010 shows around 800,000 NET EU citizens coming into the UK. See figure 5.

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/eu-migrants-other-eu-countries-analysis-bilateral-migrant-stocks

Replicate this across EU and non EU and there's 1,000,000 legal immigrants coming into the country with an unquantified number entering via illegal means.

I'd easily hazard a guess that we'll see 500,000+ Romanian's in the first year or two entering the UK.

I'm not particularly interested if Romanian's move here but if they're planning on sitting around begging etc then it shouldn't be allowed. We're already seeing them here.

[steakbake]

The Human Rights Act has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

Predates the UK entry to the EEC by some 20 years and interestingly initiated by the ultimate British Tory, Winston Churchill...

[LeighLoyal]

Predates the UK entry to the EEC by some 20 years and interestingly initiated by the ultimate British Tory, Winston Churchill...




Churchill made a speech calling for a united European front against Stalin, so a bit of a stretch to credit him with the HR convention. But on that you have to put his words in context: the real threat of Soviet invasion, Stalin's purges and oppression of Eastern Europe, forced labour camps, no political or social freedom for millions under a system only North Korea now adheres to, a system that continued right up to the late 1980's. This reality gave the authors license to produce a convention that was diametrically opposed to Stalin and totalitarianism, which was all fine and good in 1950, but in 2012 it's a different ball game and this act has become a social and political quagmire that runs counter to national interests. In my opinion national interest should override the individual rights of undesirable foreign nationals like Mr Qatada and Hamza, to name but two.

[clerriehibs]

Because, IIRC, we only allow 50-100 thousand non EU citizens into the uk per year. The government then use these stats, if they fall slightly, to say that immigration has fallen when in actual fact it's rising because of EU member states.

I have no objections to people moving here to try and gain a better quality of life but it needs to be controlled. This cannot be done under the eu free movement. And yes, I'm perfectly aware that I can move anywhere else but not unless I want to go and work for less money.

There's a poster above who makes a valid point about money being sent out of our economy to eastern European.

Is there any reports that show the impact on their economies of money being sent back? Is it not causing problems in those countries as I'd expect inflation to rise and making things more difficult for people who don't have a relative sending cash home? Or are the figures too small to make a difference.

I'm not so sure that's true; from what I've seen, eastern Europeans that work here, spend here.

The big problem is the number of jobs being rolled out to countries like India. Countries with few workers' rights. That's money being absolutely lost to the UK economy. Stand outside RBS in Dundas St. You'll be amazed at how many Asians go in & out the doors. That's just a small %age of the number employed by companies such as rbs, with many, many more working offshore.

[lyonhibs]

Got this from my wife's uncle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=wq_lhlIn1e0

What a crock of utter, contemptible *****e. I assume you and your wife's Uncle are also of that opinion.

[Haymaker]

[QUOTE=clerriehibs;3437041]I'm not so sure that's true; from what I've seen, eastern Europeans that work here, spend here.
[QUOTE]

And we import alot of goods (food especially) from their home countries for the specialist shops. I am by far an economist but isnt importing goods healthy for our economy? :confused:

[Hibbyradge]

Immigration benefits they economy...thats right...but controlled immigration!, which is something you have not got there in Scotland...let alone the U.K.! because the immigration policy is controlled in Brussels.
Would / will people all be saying the same in a couple of years time, when yes there are about 500.000 Romanians / Bulgarians accross the whole of the U.K. including Scotland, undercutting "British jobs for Briyish workers" as a former Pm put it?, not to mention the crime rates going up, petty theft, pick pocketing in city centres, because we all know with mass immigrtation...comes crime, especially from supposed "depreived" countries!.
Then there is the issue of them not being able to speak English, but ofcoarse under European Law..you cannot dicriminate against them, you will have to employ them!...especially if they undercut someone like an electrician or plumber...just like the Poles etc.. do, then send the money they earn back to their home country...not spean it in Scotland or the U.K., also the shawdy workmanship they leave behind when they have done a job for you!
And ofcoarse under the policy of "European Union and Integration" they will be freindly and integrate...think again!, they could not care less about you or anyone...just the benefits!,
Then ofcoarse about only a few thousand will go to the U.K. for seasonal work!...but as in the last lot about nearly 1 million hit your shores!, something else massively under-estimated by a former P.M....but in the interest of European Integration and Union that is ok!...not to mention his vanity! (Blair)
Then the strain on the NHS, the Schools, etc.. etc.. etc.. the list goes on, because not one family member goes the whole family goes!, and the hangers on etc..

One last comment / observation..call it what you like, "one nation..under Labour"?...well thats rich coming from them!...epecially as it was them who were in Government when the last lot of immigrants were granted access, like the few thousand they said...but in reality about 1 million!, then signed up to more E.U....more E.U etc.., and not to mention, well like i said One Nation...under Labour"?....as for devolution, and the way it was formulated...which is why you now have supposedly refendums on Independance from the U.K.!...which incidentally will not happen, and if indeed Scotland ever did...well definatly more E.U.! and the plumenting Euro with it....not to mention those very freindly East European immigrants that, that ofcoarse would benefit the Independant Scottish Economy!

That all thanks to "One Nation...under Labour"!...so glad i do not live in the U.K., nor ever will again hopefully!, once every couple of years or so is enough!...if even just to notice all of the above

That's a remarkable post, on so many levels even leaving aside your nasty xenophobic views which will be seen for what they are.

You criticise people for not being able to speak English then sign off an as badly written post as I've ever see. It doesn't actually make proper sense, the punctuation is all over the place and it's riddled with basic spelling errors, some of which I've highlighted.

However, you leave what for me, is the highlight of the piece, till near the end.

Having warned against the perilous dangers of immigration, you then, without a hint of shame, leave us with the happy information that you too, are an immigrant. :faf:

I hope the people in your adopted country don't hold similar views about immigrants to you.

[Killiehibbie]

[QUOTE=clerriehibs;3437041]I'm not so sure that's true; from what I've seen, eastern Europeans that work here, spend here.
[QUOTE]

And we import alot of goods (food especially) from their home countries for the specialist shops. I am by far an economist but isnt importing goods healthy for our economy? :confused:Exporting goods helps our economy.

[Haymaker]

Exporting goods helps our economy.

Dont you need both for a healthy economy? Either way the goods are sold here and the economy benefits from that I imagine.

[Killiehibbie]

Dont you need both for a healthy economy? Either way the goods are sold here and the economy benefits from that I imagine.
If you import more than you export you have a deficit and if the deficit keeps growing the economy is in trouble.

[Haymaker]

If you import more than you export you have a deficit and if the deficit keeps growing the economy is in trouble.

That is my "something new" for the day.

[HibsMax]

What a crock of utter, contemptible *****e. I assume you and your wife's Uncle are also of that opinion.

It's supposed to be funny but go ahead and assume anything you want.

[VickMackie]

I'm not so sure that's true; from what I've seen, eastern Europeans that work here, spend here.

The big problem is the number of jobs being rolled out to countries like India. Countries with few workers' rights. That's money being absolutely lost to the UK economy. Stand outside RBS in Dundas St. You'll be amazed at how many Asians go in & out the doors. That's just a small %age of the number employed by companies such as rbs, with many, many more working offshore.

I meant it was a valid point that money would be going out. Will they spend the same as someone who was born here earning the same wage?

[LeighLoyal]

All this belly aching about having to reapply for EU membership in the wake of independence, surely a get out clause from this wasteful fat cat disaster zone in Brussels is a plus for any independence outcome? We want independence to be independent, control our borders, fiscal policy and coastline. The only one in that £500m community centre with any sense is Margo MacDonald as usual. Clowns.



And a good Hibby!

[VickMackie]

All this belly aching about having to reapply for EU membership in the wake of independence, surely a get out clause from this wasteful fat cat disaster zone in Brussels is a plus for any independence outcome? We want independence to be independent, control our borders, fiscal policy and coastline. The only one in that £500m community centre with any sense is Margo MacDonald as usual. Clowns.

Apparently Norway pay 8 billion a year to access the single market. Presumably we'd need to pay the same.

And to access the market you need to conform to the same laws as the Eu anyway.

[LeighLoyal]

Apparently Norway pay 8 billion a year to access the single market. Presumably we'd need to pay the same.

And to access the market you need to conform to the same laws as the Eu anyway.


They were paying £200m a year in 2006, so no idea where you plucked this 8 billon figure from.


Since 1979 the net cost to be an EU member to the UK is at £116 billion. I think I'd rather pay the £200m per annum,, don't you?

[Phil D. Rolls]

All this belly aching about having to reapply for EU membership in the wake of independence, surely a get out clause from this wasteful fat cat disaster zone in Brussels is a plus for any independence outcome? We want independence to be independent, control our borders, fiscal policy and coastline. The only one in that £500m community centre with any sense is Margo MacDonald as usual. Clowns.



And a good Hibby!

Who's this "we"?

[Jones28]

The way I see it, as a 19 year old who has nothing more than the 4 highers I left school with, is that these people were and are filling a labour gap.

I have had several jobs since I left school - I cut grass over the Summer of 2011, worked in a shop until it was closed down and became a kitchen assistant after moving to the Borders from Edinburgh in January.

Between January and April 2012 I was on the dole - yes, I was one of these people loathed country wide for mooching off the benifits system - and while on it I got some very important assurance from the people that worked to help me find a job. I WANTED a job, I WANTED to work and earn money. Because I wanted it, I would find a job. Some people are - IMHO - too proud to take a job that pays a low wage, but would still take them above the jobseekers allowance thresh-hold.

When I found work - as a kitchen assistant - in April 2012 I met a 40 year old Polish man. He moved here with his girlfriend to try and raise their son (a Hibs fan) in a better setting. He is one of my coleagues at work and is (in my opinion) much better at his job than I could ever hope to be. He works hard and long hours doing 4 split-shifts a week. He pays his taxes and spends all of his money in Scotland either at the local Co-Op or in Berwick.

He was better at his job than any local/Scottish folk. He was the best candidate for the job so he got it and others missed out. He had never worked in a kitchen before this job so he was starting from scratch. Why should these people who are good at what they do be persecuted in the same way that many others are? There are definitely people who come to Britain to reap the rewards of a very generous benifit/healthcare system, but for every single person that does there is another that comes here to try and make an honest living out of it.

Stop generalising for the sake of those who are here to make an honest living out of it.

[Pete]

Who's this "we"?

All the Falkirkhibbys on the message board?