Post independence finances

[Hibbyradge]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20380426

[yeezus.]

Read about this in the Times - "An independent Scotland would be extremely vulnerable to any drop in oil prices".

[Hainan Hibs]

If our position is so reliant on oil it is an argument for independence. If 300 years of union have put us in that position it is not the answer to get us out.

[Beefster]

If our position is so reliant on oil it is an argument for independence. If 300 years of union have put us in that position it is not the answer to get us out.

Surely our position isn't that reliant on oil whilst we're a member of the UK but would be in the event of independence?

[Hainan Hibs]

Surely our position isn't that reliant on oil whilst we're a member of the UK but would be in the event of independence?

If the Scottish economy is reliant on oil funds then the union isn't very successful. If it was it would have delivered a balanced economy, instead it has put us in a position of doubting whether we can survive or not.

[James.]

If the Scottish economy is reliant on oil funds then the union isn't very successful. If it was it would have delivered a balanced economy, instead it has put us in a position of doubting whether we can survive or not.

Is that not a bit contradictory? It seem that it's due to being in the union that we don't have to heavily rely on the funds from oil :confused:

[yeezus.]

Is that not a bit contradictory? It seem that it's due to being in the union that we don't have to heavily rely on the funds from oil :confused:

That's what I thought - I'm not sure how it's the fault of the union at the moment...

[allmodcons]

Scotland! The only country in the world that has a valuable natural resource that's bad for it! What a complete pile of pish.
You can just hear other oil rich states on discovering they have such a valuable resource. 'This is a ****ing disaster, best leave it in the ground,we might become too reliant on it'.

While I'm at it, might want to ask countless UK Governments how they managed to 'balance the books' (sic) without this '*****' resource we call the black gold.

Complete ****ing joke. Makes me sad to hear our country being continually talked down as some kind of basket case nation.

[CropleyWasGod]

Read about this in the Times - "An independent Scotland would be extremely vulnerable to any drop in oil prices".

That would only be the case were we to be completely reliant on oil. That would be irresponsible, IMO. And, to be fair, the Scottish Government recognise that; hence the push for alternative energies, and the technology that goes along with it.

[yeezus.]

That would only be the case were we to be completely reliant on oil. That would be irresponsible, IMO. And, to be fair, the Scottish Government recognise that; hence the push for alternative energies, and the technology that goes along with it.

I know it's hard to say what percentage of GDP oil would account for but I read the figure 18% - if that were the case, surely global commodity prices would have an effect.

[CropleyWasGod]

I know it's hard to say what percentage of GDP oil would account for but I read the figure 18% - if that were the case, surely global commodity prices would have an effect.

If it happened "soon", then yes it would. All the more reason to press on with the alternatives to lessen the risk.

[yeezus.]

If it happened "soon", then yes it would. All the more reason to press on with the alternatives to lessen the risk.

I know it's only 2012 but I'd like to hear more from both camps about things other than the practicalities of independence - but given my location, neither side will be door knocking on the issue.

[Dashing Bob S]

Yes, best staying where we are in the stable and buoyant UK with it's long term rosy outlook. After all, we've prospered as a nation over the last 50 years to the extent of being the only country in Europe with an almost zero growth population.

[marinello59]

Yes, best staying where we are in the stable and buoyant UK with it's long term rosy outlook. After all, we've prospered as a nation over the last 50 years to the extent of being the only country in Europe with an almost zero growth population.

So are you suggesting that there will be more s***ging in an Independent Scotland? Finally we have a vote winner.:thumbsup:

[Beefster]

Yes, best staying where we are in the stable and buoyant UK with it's long term rosy outlook. After all, we've prospered as a nation over the last 50 years to the extent of being the only country in Europe with an almost zero growth population.

The population has grown about 4% in the last 10 years or so. We must be doing okay now by your measure.

[JimBHibees]

Got to be said that there is no doubt that the nearer we get to the vote the amount of misinformation will be astronomical. The last time we had some sort of Independence type vote the lies that were told about finances as proven by Government papers since released showed exactly to what extent governmental bodies will go to preserve the Union. It will be worse in the build up to 2014 that is for sure.

[marinello59]

Got to be said that there is no doubt that the nearer we get to the vote the amount of misinformation will be astronomical. The last time we had some sort of Independence type vote the lies that were told about finances as proven by Government papers since released showed exactly to what extent governmental bodies will go to preserve the Union. It will be worse in the build up to 2014 that is for sure.

Perhaps if the SNP laid out the economic argument for independence in a detailed manner the Better Together campaign would not have the opportunity to fill the present vacuum with whatever they want. The signs are not good so far though.

[Beefster]

Got to be said that there is no doubt that the nearer we get to the vote the amount of misinformation will be astronomical. The last time we had some sort of Independence type vote the lies that were told about finances as proven by Government papers since released showed exactly to what extent governmental bodies will go to preserve the Union. It will be worse in the build up to 2014 that is for sure.

That may be so but the IFS (the organisation that prompted this thread) don't pump out misinformation and have nothing to do with the UK government or the 'No' campaign.

[Eyrie]

Got to be said that there is no doubt that the nearer we get to the vote the amount of misinformation will be astronomical. The last time we had some sort of Independence type vote the lies that were told about finances as proven by Government papers since released showed exactly to what extent governmental bodies will go to preserve the Union. It will be worse in the build up to 2014 that is for sure.

I think you'll find that both sides are already at it and not just the side opposing your viewpoint.

[RyeSloan]

Perhaps if the SNP laid out the economic argument for independence in a detailed manner the Better Together campaign would not have the opportunity to fill the present vacuum with whatever they want. The signs are not good so far though.

Dunno they seem to suggest that getting a seat on the Bank of England board and voluntarily shackling ourself to an economic zone that's suffering a currency crisis might be a good way forward...which sounds rather like the current non independent set up but without the seat on the Bank of England board bit.

Must admit I find the SNP's vision of independence so tepid that it's not really worthy of the name...it would have been interesting to see the reaction if they had put forward a much bolder vision. A vision of a fresh start, a clean break and the birth of a nation...a kind of second coming if you want :greengrin

The vision of a low tax, small government, EU rule free country with a view to a new great enlightenment creating a new and vigorous Scotland might actually have sounded worth fighting for.

[yeezus.]

Dunno they seem to suggest that getting a seat on the Bank of England board and voluntarily shackling ourself to an economic zone that's suffering a currency crisis might be a good way forward...which sounds rather like the current non independent set up but without the seat on the Bank of England board bit.

Must admit I find the SNP's vision of independence so tepid that it's not really worthy of the name...it would have been interesting to see the reaction if they had put forward a much bolder vision. A vision of a fresh start, a clean break and the birth of a nation...a kind of second coming if you want :greengrin

The vision of a low tax, small government, EU rule free country with a view to a new great enlightenment creating a new and vigorous Scotland might actually have sounded worth fighting for.

Spot on - I just wonder if, with a different policy on the monarchy and the EU, the SNP would gain supporters of independence? I've spoken to a couple of people who have said exactly what you just pointed out.

[marinello59]

Dunno they seem to suggest that getting a seat on the Bank of England board and voluntarily shackling ourself to an economic zone that's suffering a currency crisis might be a good way forward...which sounds rather like the current non independent set up but without the seat on the Bank of England board bit.

Must admit I find the SNP's vision of independence so tepid that it's not really worthy of the name...it would have been interesting to see the reaction if they had put forward a much bolder vision. A vision of a fresh start, a clean break and the birth of a nation...a kind of second coming if you want :greengrin

The vision of a low tax, small government, EU rule free country with a view to a new great enlightenment creating a new and vigorous Scotland might actually have sounded worth fighting for.

:top marks

[Hibbyradge]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20574465

[yeezus.]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20574465

Saw this on Reporting Scotland - apparently Scotland isn't exected to make a full recovery until 2016. I'm looking forward to watching the chancellor on Wednesday - I think he has a bit of backtracking to do.

[RyeSloan]

Despite decades to think about it the SNP seem to have no clue as to what Independence actually means....if they can't even give a clear steer on something as fundamental like EU membership then how on earth do they expect to persuade people that voting for their luke warm version of Independence is the correct thing to do?

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-another-bruising-day-for-snp-on-europe-as-it-changes-tack-over-talks-1-2690895