Gary "nae medals" mackay racist (alleged )

[poolman]

I remember this when it first came out and was swept under the carpet

Well I know who I believe and its not that ****in yam roaster

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/scotlandfeatures/4650606/If-theres-no-racism-in-Scottish-football-why-am-I-still-remembered-as-the-wee-black-guy-from-Glasgow-who-played-for-Hibs.html

[Phil D. Rolls]

I remember this when it first came out and was swept under the carpet

Well I know who I believe and its not that ****in yam roaster

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/scotlandfeatures/4650606/If-theres-no-racism-in-Scottish-football-why-am-I-still-remembered-as-the-wee-black-guy-from-Glasgow-who-played-for-Hibs.html

Why doesn't MacKay just say, "I made monkey gestures to him, and I really wish I hadn't. I should have known better, particularly because Hearts were getting a reputation as a racist club, following the Mark Walters banana incident. Some of my best friends are black.....etc"

[MrSmith]

Why doesn't MacKay just say, "I made monkey gestures to him, and I really wish I hadn't. I should have known better, particularly because Hearts were getting a reputation as a racist club, following the Mark Walters banana incident. Some of my best friends are black.....etc"

To be fair to Gary, I don't think he has much choice in gestures! He definitely looks like about number 5 on the evoloution chain...

[hibsbollah]

No need to use 'allegedly'. It doesnt offer you any legal protection against libel, contrary to popular belief, and everyone knows Mackay is a big trophyless racist anyway. Is the STV footage on youtube i wonder?

[Matty_Jack04]

Why is this even news? I don't understand this is like the black manager argument down south has anyone thought to consider that there hasn't been any black players/managers good enough to make the grade and racism isn't even part of it? There will be 100s and 1000s of white people in that category of not good enough

as for medals McKay without any doubt that man is a racist

[Phil D. Rolls]

Why is this even news? I don't understand this is like the black manager argument down south has anyone thought to consider that there hasn't been any black players/managers good enough to make the grade and racism isn't even part of it? There will be 100s and 1000s of white people in that category of not good enough

as for medals McKay without any doubt that man is a racist

Remember Big Ron's "lazy ******" comment? That's how the old school thought.

[Future17]

No need to use 'allegedly'. It doesnt offer you any legal protection against libel, contrary to popular belief, and everyone knows Mackay is a big trophyless racist anyway. Is the STV footage on youtube i wonder?

Defamation in this country and, in this case, it would.


Why is this even news? I don't understand this is like the black manager argument down south has anyone thought to consider that there hasn't been any black players/managers good enough to make the grade and racism isn't even part of it? There will be 100s and 1000s of white people in that category of not good enough

as for medals McKay without any doubt that man is a racist

That's statistically very unlikely and, even if that is the case, you would have to look at underlying reasons for that rather than just allow the status quo to go unchecked.

[Matty_Jack04]

Remember Big Ron's "lazy ******" comment? That's how the old school thought.

Im not saying there isn't issues that's been proved with Suarez terry and rio but to give the racism argument to the only reason there hasn't been any managers or players through the systems isn't right
the media and coaches up here have been raving about Islam feruz for about 3 yrs now if players have the talent they will make it no matter the colour of there skin that laddy feruz would probably have been in celtics first team squad next year if he'd stayed on instead he choose Chelsea.

manager wise how many ex black players do you see assisting or involved in coaching set ups, not many so how do they expect to learn the trade and make it, can't just put it down to a racist attitude IMO

[poolman]

No need to use 'allegedly'. It doesnt offer you any legal protection against libel, contrary to popular belief, and everyone knows Mackay is a big trophyless racist anyway. Is the STV footage on youtube i wonder?


Maybe check with the Admins about that one :agree:

[Eyrie]

manager wise how many ex black players do you see assisting or involved in coaching set ups, not many so how do they expect to learn the trade and make it, can't just put it down to a racist attitude IMO

There are plenty of black ex-players, so are they being encouraged to attend the courses and then given the opportunities to work as coaches?

[Hibercelona]

Not quite sure why this was published to be honest.

I don't think racism in Scotland is anywhere near as bad as it would have been in the 80's/early 90's.

There will always be some level of discrimination against people with dark skin tones, just as they'll always be some discrimination against people who are fat, have ginger hair, or are just plain ugly.... etc.

It's not right, but it will never be stamped out 100%.

I would say that English football has a far worse problem for it than up here.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Not quite sure why this was published to be honest.

I don't think racism in Scotland is anywhere near as bad as it would have been in the 80's/early 90's.

There will always be some level of discrimination against people with dark skin tones, just as they'll always be some discrimination against people who are fat, have ginger hair, or are just plain ugly.... etc.

It's not right, but it will never be stamped out 100%.

I would say that English football has a far worse problem for it than up here.

Yet we have a black former player saying that there is a problem. Surely it's for those discriminated against to say whether something is acceptable?

[Hibercelona]

Yet we have a black former player saying that there is a problem. Surely it's for those discriminated against to say whether something is acceptable?

I'm not disputing that at all. But going to the papers about it and getting them to publish the article, isn't going to change people's minds.

If anything, it will just draw negative attention from the idiots who consider themselves above other people.

It will never be gone completely, no matter how badly we want it to be.

[hibs0666]

All you need to do is look at the whiter than whiteness of the Scotland team to see that we have a problem and missed opportunity.

[Billy Whizz]

Isn't he also an agent of a few of our players?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm not disputing that at all. But going to the papers about it and getting them to publish the article, isn't going to change people's minds.

If anything, it will just draw negative attention from the idiots who consider themselves above other people.

It will never be gone completely, no matter how badly we want it to be.

I agree, humans like to form groups and exclude others from it. That said, if members of society are being discriminated against when it comes to employment, someone has to speak up. Otherwise those guilty of the discrimination will turn around and say "nobody told us".

I'm sure there were a lot of people in the South of the US who weren't aware that there was a race problem until Rosa Parks got too tired to walk to the back of the bus one day

[Purple & Green]

It was harper himself who dropped it wasn't it? Why did he do that?

[hibsbollah]

Defamation in this country and, in this case, it would.



That's statistically very unlikely and, even if that is the case, you would have to look at underlying reasons for that rather than just allow the status quo to go unchecked.

Sorry, as a recently returned anglo i still use the english lingo. But to my knowledge the principle is the same in both systems; you cant defame someone and use 'allleged' to protect yourself. (the 'private eye' defence. Unless things have changed recently?

[JimBHibees]

It was harper himself who dropped it wasn't it? Why did he do that?

I dont think that is right. Can remember a newspaper article from the player a few years after where he said he was disappointed with the fact no action was taken. Shameful that he wasnt hammered for it as there was a clear tv close up and it was perfectly clear what had happened.

[clerriehibs]

Yet we have a black former player saying that there is a problem. Surely it's for those discriminated against to say whether something is acceptable?

Those who claim to be discriminated against are free to make a statement. But they can't define what is and isn 't acceptable ... that's up to the government. If any individual could ... think laryea kingston.

[Kato]

Is the STV footage on youtube i wonder?


It was online at one point. I remember in pre-youtube days someone posted a link. The Hearts are in middle of one their "oooh-oooh-oooh" chants and Mackay joins in just after fouling KH. Right in his face. You don't have to be a lip-reading expert to that.

[God Petrie]

http://youtu.be/CIbHx_NUDq4

[Pretty Boy]

It was online at one point. I remember in pre-youtube days someone posted a link. The Hearts are in middle of one their "oooh-oooh-oooh" chants and Mackay joins in just after fouling KH. Right in his face. You don't have to be a lip-reading expert to that.

That video rings a bell.

Coming from fans who sang 'you'll never see a coon in maroon' it was hardly surprising.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Those who claim to be discriminated against are free to make a statement. But they can't define what is and isn 't acceptable ... that's up to the government. If any individual could ... think laryea kingston.

Good point, people that play the race card unfairly should be taken to task. In this case though, I think Kevin Harper has a point, and its one that people on here keep coming back to when MacKay is discussed. For all I know, he is a decent guy, but what he did on the pitch that day wasn't right.

[Cabbage East]

That video rings a bell.

Coming from fans who sang 'you'll never see a coon in maroon' it was hardly surprising.


I wish someone would find that video now and get that **** Mackay outed as the ****bag he is.

[The Green Goblin]

I'm not disputing that at all. But going to the papers about it and getting them to publish the article, isn't going to change people's minds.

If anything, it will just draw negative attention from the idiots who consider themselves above other people.

It will never be gone completely, no matter how badly we want it to be.

Perhaps, but we must never give up trying to get rid of it.

[Matty_Jack04]

There are plenty of black ex-players, so are they being encouraged to attend the courses and then given the opportunities to work as coaches?

Why are they to be encouraged anymore than anyone else? That's my only argument here, I'm in no way saying racism is correct or non existent I just don't believe it's the reason we don't have black managers or players coming through the ranks, look at every club in Scotland I cant think of any Scottish black players are all clubs in Scotland racist? Scottish clubs with no way of buying quality players are hardly going to turn there nose up at young talented pros just because of the colour of there skin

[Scouse Hibee]

Have known Darren Cole since he was born, seems strange to me to see him described as an ethnic minority in that article! Never really considered it myself.

[clerriehibs]

Why are they to be encouraged anymore than anyone else? That's my only argument here, I'm in no way saying racism is correct or non existent I just don't believe it's the reason we don't have black managers or players coming through the ranks, look at every club in Scotland I cant think of any Scottish black players are all clubs in Scotland racist? Scottish clubs with no way of buying quality players are hardly going to turn there nose up at young talented pros just because of the colour of there skin


Maybe the lack of positive discrimination (i.e. whoever runs these things maybe not going out of their way to encourage ethnic minorities to feel included) is a sign of latent racism? Or rather, latent negative discrimination (because racism is possibly too strong a word in this context).

So no-one feels like they're discriminating ... they're just letting it happen?

note: none of the above applies to mackay ... I wasn't a witness, but there's plenty on here seem to have been.

[1two]

Could the same be said about the lack of ethic minority fans at Scottish football games?

[1two]

http://youtu.be/vQYMLIaaK60 from about 7 mins 20 onwards

[hibsbollah]

http://youtu.be/vQYMLIaaK60 from about 7 mins 20 onwards

Thats as clear evidence as you could ask for. Hugh Dallas obviously sees/hears it as well, and gives Medals a suitably stern lecture :rolleyes:

[1two]

Thats as clear evidence as you could ask for. Hugh Dallas obviously sees/hears it as well, and gives Medals a suitably stern lecture :rolleyes:

16 years ago

It's not really all that long ago, it's pretty disturbing that this was just completely brushed over, or rather just completely ignored and accepted

[hibsbollah]

Ah, the banter.

Sixteen years is quite recent, youre right, and that sort of abuse was as unacceptable then as it is now. The defence of 'oh everyone was racIst then, it was on the telly and everything' just doesnt wash in this case.

Medals is now going round schools doing anti-racism work for Show Racism the Red Card.

http://www.theredcardscotland.org/news/news-and-events?news=1061

Maybe someone could send that link to his employers?

[Sweet Left Peg]

"Medals is now going round schools doing anti-racism work for Show Racism the Red Card."

Yip. And Jimmy Saville did a lot of good work for childrens charities.

[Steve-O]

He even looks like a jakey racist **** :bitchy:

[Hiber-nation]

http://youtu.be/vQYMLIaaK60 from about 7 mins 20 onwards

Memory's a bit hazy but I'm sure there was another incident which obviously wasn't picked up by the TV cameras where Mackay actually bends over Kevin and makes monkey actions after he fouled him, sure it was near the halfway line. I thought it had been on the TV highlights but I can't see it.

[Phil MaGlass]

Kevin mentions that theres not alot of black kids coming through in Scottish Fitba, does Scotland really have a large enough black population to support the claims? Im not making a point, just interested as I have lived outside Scotland for more than 20 years now.

[CropleyWasGod]

Kevin mentions that theres not alot of black kids coming through in Scottish Fitba, does Scotland really have a large enough black population to support the claims? Im not making a point, just interested as I have lived outside Scotland for more than 20 years now.

Up until recent years, you're right, there haven't been enough black families living here. However, in the last 10 years, there has been a significant increase in the number of (typically African) immigrants.

You just need to look at a few Juvenile games at the weekend to see the increasing number of black kids playing. Statistically, it's more likely now that some of them might move on to the pro game.

[18Craig75]

http://youtu.be/vQYMLIaaK60 from about 7 mins 20 onwards


****bag!!!

[Cabbage East]

What a ****bag. I hope someone emails this to the journalist that did the interview with Harper.

[lyonhibs]

http://youtu.be/vQYMLIaaK60 from about 7 mins 20 onwards

I've never seen that before. What a racist, Jambo cretin that man is. The type that makes me want to see HoMFC go to the wall with a loud, inglorious bang and never resurface again.

[lapsedhibee]

http://youtu.be/vQYMLIaaK60 from about 7 mins 20 onwards

Call me a yam but I'm not convinced that the clip there is evidence of Medals making monkey noises. If you were trying to make an Ooh Ooh sound you would form your gob into a small O shape, wouldn't you? The shape Medals's gob's in there, he could be barking any sort of abuse at Harper. We know that Medals is a cretin, but I doubt whether that TV coverage offers proof that he's a racist cretin.

[hibsbollah]

Call me a yam but I'm not convinced that the clip there is evidence of Medals making monkey noises. If you were trying to make an Ooh Ooh sound you would form your gob into a small O shape, wouldn't you? The shape Medals's gob's in there, he could be barking any sort of abuse at Harper. We know that Medals is a cretin, but I doubt whether that TV coverage offers proof that he's a racist cretin.

Try it in the mirror and see; aside from feeling a bit daft i bet you make the same face as Medals does (although in my case, and im sure in yours, not quite so disgusting as Medals). And what other reason could he have for pulling that face at the exact same moment the hearts fans are making monkey noises? has he got a massive chicken bone stuck between his sinal passages hes trying to remove?

[lapsedhibee]

Try it in the mirror and see; aside from feeling a bit daft i bet you make the same face as Medals does (although in my case, and im sure in yours, not quite so disgusting as Medals). And what other reason could he have for pulling that face at the exact same moment the hearts fans are making monkey noises? has he got a massive chicken bone stuck between his sinal passages hes trying to remove?

In a mirror, as in real life, making an Ooh Ooh sound requires the gob to form a small o shape, no teeth showing. Medals's gob is not forming a small o shape, and he's showing teeth. That's me defining a monkey noise as Ooh Ooh though - if he's going Ooh Ooh Aah Aah then I've no argument. I can't hear monkey noises in the crowd on that clip at that time, whether Ooh Ooh or Ooh Aah, though that might be poor quality laptop speakers/my ears/etc.
Cantona.

Not saying Medals isn't a racist cretin, just unconvinced by that clip on its own.

Different question now: did Kevin's team-mates back him up? I was out of town at the time of the incident, and have no idea what the press coverage was like (and if the MSM then was anything like it is now, MSM coverage would be largely worthless anyway).

[hibsbollah]

In a mirror, as in real life, making an Ooh Ooh sound requires the gob to form a small o shape, no teeth showing. Medals's gob is not forming a small o shape, and he's showing teeth. That's me defining a monkey noise as Ooh Ooh though - if he's going Ooh Ooh Aah Aah then I've no argument. I can't hear monkey noises in the crowd on that clip at that time, whether Ooh Ooh or Ooh Aah, though that might be poor quality laptop speakers/my ears/etc.
Cantona.

Not saying Medals isn't a racist cretin, just unconvinced by that clip on its own.

Different question now: did Kevin's team-mates back him up? I was out of town at the time of the incident, and have no idea what the press coverage was like (and if the MSM then was anything like it is now, MSM coverage would be largely worthless anyway).

I am delighted i got you to do it in the mirror, if nothing else :hilarious I hope you have thick walls and your neighbours didnt get the wrong idea...

[lapsedhibee]

I am delighted i got you to do it in the mirror, if nothing else :hilarious I hope you have thick walls and your neighbours didnt get the wrong idea...

I didn't do it - I got someone left-handed to do it, so that the reflection would come out right.

[Pretty Boy]

Could the same be said about the lack of ethic minority fans at Scottish football games?

Maybe they are put off by folk singing about refugees?

[1two]

Call me a yam but I'm not convinced that the clip there is evidence of Medals making monkey noises.

You're a yam

And your post has potential for most ridiculous Hibs.net post in recent times, good work!

[lapsedhibee]

You're a yam

And your post has potential for most ridiculous Hibs.net post in recent times, good work!

I've already said I wasn't at the game, so maybe there was plenty stuff going on which, taken together with the clip, would convince a current journalist to further Harper's case against Medals. But that clip on its own, for me not a knockdown argument. Just a foul-mouthed yam frothing at the mouth, as Rooney and Ferdinand do every week at referees. Did you follow Harper's case at the time, and did any of his team-mates or Hibs officials back him up in his complaint? :dunno:

Justice for the Kevin one!:flag:

[hibs0666]

I've already said I wasn't at the game, so maybe there was plenty stuff going on which, taken together with the clip, would convince a current journalist to further Harper's case against Medals. But that clip on its own, for me not a knockdown argument. Just a foul-mouthed yam frothing at the mouth, as Rooney and Ferdinand do every week at referees. Did you follow Harper's case at the time, and did any of his team-mates or Hibs officials back him up in his complaint? :dunno:

Justice for the Kevin one!:flag:

Have a look at the thread on yackback - even that mob refuse to stick up for Medals, and their comments tell you pretty much all you need to know about the poisonous abuse hurled at Harper by that mob. Mdlas was only one of hundreds/thousands who were at it that day.

[JimBHibees]

I've already said I wasn't at the game, so maybe there was plenty stuff going on which, taken together with the clip, would convince a current journalist to further Harper's case against Medals. But that clip on its own, for me not a knockdown argument. Just a foul-mouthed yam frothing at the mouth, as Rooney and Ferdinand do every week at referees. Did you follow Harper's case at the time, and did any of his team-mates or Hibs officials back him up in his complaint? :dunno:

Justice for the Kevin one!:flag:

Really. :confused: Looks clear as day to me.

[lapsedhibee]

Have a look at the thread on yackback - even that mob refuse to stick up for Medals, and their comments tell you pretty much all you need to know about the poisonous abuse hurled at Harper by that mob. Mdlas was only one of hundreds/thousands who were at it that day.
Ok, was a thousand miles away at the time.

Really. :confused: Looks clear as day to me.
I'm off out to the opticians right now!

[Pretty Boy]

I've already said I wasn't at the game, so maybe there was plenty stuff going on which, taken together with the clip, would convince a current journalist to further Harper's case against Medals. But that clip on its own, for me not a knockdown argument. Just a foul-mouthed yam frothing at the mouth, as Rooney and Ferdinand do every week at referees. Did you follow Harper's case at the time, and did any of his team-mates or Hibs officials back him up in his complaint? :dunno:

Justice for the Kevin one!:flag:

Agree the clip is less conclusive than I remember it.

However there was 100% monkey chants coming from the Hearts end that day and it wasn't a minority either. There's a thread on kickback at the moment were a fair few admit the monkey chants and say they were ashamed and shocked by them.

For what it'd worth I don't think Kevin Harper didn't get Scotland caps because he was black. It was far more likely that it was because his development stalled and he never really fulfilled his potential.

[Phil D. Rolls]

People are saying why didn't Harper take it further? If Harper is making it up (and plenty people know he isn't) why doesn't MacKay take it further?

I don't think this needs to be a witch humt against MacKay - who cuts a very sad figure these days, and doesn't really need any more failure heaped on him. I would have thought the best and most dignified ending to this would be for Gary to man up, and say he has learned from his past stupidity. I know he is not the sort of guy that likes to talk to the media, but maybe this time he should feel brave enough to give his thoughts on the matter.

Note for Younger Readers

Despite a long career with Hearts and Airdrie, Gary MacKay was unfortunate not to compete in a trophy winning side. He has several runners up medals from the Scottish Cup, Scottish League, Scottish League Cup, and was the valiant captain in Airdrie's epic 5-1 (aggregate) play off defeat to Hibernian, being stretchered off early in the second half.

He won one international call up, scoring the winner in a game against Bulgaria. However he was never recalled to the Scotland team. The goal made him a hero in Ireland, because they qualified for the European Championships. Despite an all expenses trip to Dublin, no medals were awarded.

His management career saw him guide Airdrieonians to, basically nowhere. Many connected to the club speculated that MacKay had paid them for the job.

Since then, Gary has made a career as a media pundit and Hearts fans spokesman. An early supporter of the Romanov regime, he later changed his mind, and then changed it back. He also does a lot of work for charity.

He was unsuccesful in his appeal against Edinburgh Council in 1989, when they ruled that his satellite dish had to come down as it was too big. The character Bert Stronach, in Irvine Welsh's Filth is very like Mackay.

Rumours persist that he racially abused Kevin Harper during an Edinburgh derby. MacKay says very little about the story

[lapsedhibee]

For what it'd worth I don't think Kevin Harper didn't get Scotland caps because he was black. It was far more likely that it was because his development stalled and he never really fulfilled his potential.

Didn't read him as complaining that he didn't get caps for being black: read him as complaining he didn't get caps for speaking out. And that wouldn't be racism; rather, whistleblowerism.


People are saying why didn't Harper take it further?

Don't think they are. I wanted to know whether he got any or much support from Hibs, not because I think he made it up, but to gauge the wider atmosphere at the time. Nobody's said yet whether he did get support or whether he was on his own.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Didn't read him as complaining that he didn't get caps for being black: read him as complaining he didn't get caps for speaking out. And that wouldn't be racism; rather, whistleblowerism.



Don't think they are. I wanted to know whether he got any or much support from Hibs, not because I think he made it up, but to gauge the wider atmosphere at the time. Nobody's said yet whether he did get support or whether he was on his own.

MacKay is saying nothing at all, which is unusual for a guy that is in the media as much as he is.

[lapsedhibee]

MacKay is saying nothing at all, which is unusual for a guy that is in the media as much as he is.

MM has probably seen how much good it did Lance Armstrong to continue to deny stuff year after year, and decided to copy him. It's natural for winners to copy the behaviour of other winners.