Mark Clattenburg reported by Chelsea, cleared by police and FA

[3pm]

'Inappropriate language' towards 2 players.

Hinting at racism. Inreresting times ahead.

[Geo_1875]

As well as being as for being an incompetent ********

[Eyrie]

The fact that he sent off two of their players is of course irrelevant.

[Pretty Boy]

He had a shocker today from what I've seen.

Inappropriate language doesn't surprise me at all. The way some refs speak to players at all levels is shocking. If it was the other way round there would be a red card no doubt.

[Scouse Hibee]

Can't wait to see how this develops. Interesting considering the recent stances against players accused, a whole new can of worms could open here.

[Baldy Foghorn]

He had a shocker today from what I've seen.

Inappropriate language doesn't surprise me at all. The way some refs speak to players at all levels is shocking. If it was the other way round there would be a red card no doubt.

I think the inappropriate language is a two way street, we always see players swearing at referees or linesmen, or other players....If their are racist undertones then that is entirely different, and there is no room for that in the game.

[Jonnyboy]

Anyone got a link to whoever is reporting this?

[Hibbyradge]

Anyone got a link to whoever is reporting this?

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2012-10-28/chelsea-referee-complaint/

[Sammy7nil]

He had a shocker today from what I've seen.

Inappropriate language doesn't surprise me at all. The way some refs speak to players at all levels is shocking. If it was the other way round there would be a red card no doubt.

Opinions eh !
I thought he got both sending offs correct as for the offside that was a very very difficult call.

As for inappropriate language Ibet the players say far far worse thananything a ref says.
Poor wee lambs the ref swore at me :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2012-10-28/chelsea-referee-complaint/

Cheers D

Where does it hint at racism? All I see is the term 'inappropriate language' which could easily mean foul language :confused:

[Pretty Boy]

Opinions eh !
I thought he got both sending offs correct as for the offside that was a very very difficult call.

As for inappropriate language Ibet the players say far far worse thananything a ref says.
Poor wee lambs the ref swore at me :greengrin

Don't disagree that refs get some shocking abuse from players, we would all do well to remember that we couldn't have a game without them.

However, certainly at amateur level, the refs can be just as bad. Some are very good but I've had a few in recent years who have been pretty handy with the Fs and Cs. Doesn't bother me but they can't then complain when a player does it back.

[jonty]

Cheers D

Where does it hint at racism? All I see is the term 'inappropriate language' which could easily mean foul language :confused:

Apparently the telegraph is saying its racism.

[Jonnyboy]

Apparently the telegraph is saying its racism.

Sad if true

[jonty]

Sad if true
I cant find a direct link, but it was mentioned on twatterverse.

so it might be complete bollocks :greengrin

[3pm]

Cheers D

Where does it hint at racism? All I see is the term 'inappropriate language' which could easily mean foul language :confused:

Was on SSN John. They've no idea what has been said so the racism thing may be garbage.

[Jonnyboy]

Was on SSN John. They've no idea what has been said so the racism thing may be garbage.

Cheers :thumbsup:

If he has racially abused someone then hell mend him. My worry is that given the circumstances it's an easy thing to accuse someone of when you're mega angry at him

[Beefster]

Apparently the telegraph is saying its racism.

Nothing in their story about it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/9639556/Chelsea-complain-to-Premier-League-after-referee-Mark-Clattenburg-allegedly-uses-inappropriate-language.html

[Wotherspiniesta]

Aw boohoo Chelsea!

Did the wittle referee say a bad word?

It beggars belief. Everytime the camera zooms in on a players face he's swearing about something or other: missed shot, slack pass, offside, decision by the referee.

It's a football match, not a primary school.

For years, Chelsea have been the biggest cry babies and the worst losers. Drogba, Terry, Cole, Lampard. All a bunch of greetin' faced sadsacks. This season they're actually playing some decent stuff and deserve to be top of the league. They should learn how to lose with some dignity!

[jonty]

Nothing in their story about it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/9639556/Chelsea-complain-to-Premier-League-after-referee-Mark-Clattenburg-allegedly-uses-inappropriate-language.html
:greengrin hanece apparently (couldnt find the online story).
Twitter is full of crap - nothing new there then!

[Onceinawhile]

Aw boohoo Chelsea!

Did the wittle referee say a bad word?

It beggars belief. Everytime the camera zooms in on a players face he's swearing about something or other: missed shot, slack pass, offside, decision by the referee.

It's a football match, not a primary school.

For years, Chelsea have been the biggest cry babies and the worst losers. Drogba, Terry, Cole, Lampard. All a bunch of greetin' faced sadsacks. This season they're actually playing some decent stuff and deserve to be top of the league. They should learn how to lose with some dignity!

Think he was just repeating what he thought Ashley Cole said.

[matty_f]

Isn't the ref mic'd up now? Surely the other
officials know what he said.

[hibsbollah]

Chelsea have a bit of recent form for lying, as everyone knows. So I'd give Clattenberg the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

[Hibbyradge]

Think he was just repeating what he thought Ashley Cole said.

:thumbsup:

[EdinMike]

Consulting the Mystic Ball of Geeafeck ! Got it from an Apache Indian Chief and it said...

"Stop Greeting Chelsea.."

And I don't even support Man U or any English Teams. Just laugh when Chelsea lose, I surely doubt there is any smoke to this fire..

[The Green Goblin]

If it is proved that Chelsea were at it, causing trouble, I wonder if the FA will finally hammer them.

[Hibercelona]

If it is proved that Chelsea were at it, causing trouble, I wonder if the FA will finally hammer them.

Nope...

[Future17]

Opinions eh !
I thought he got both sending offs correct as for the offside that was a very very difficult call.

As for inappropriate language Ibet the players say far far worse thananything a ref says.
Poor wee lambs the ref swore at me :greengrin

I didn't think there was any doubt that Torres should not have received a second yellow?!?

[The Green Goblin]

Nope...

I agree with you.

[poolman]

Isn't the ref mic'd up now? Surely the other
officials know what he said.


:agree: They're mic'd up to the 2 linesmen and also the fourth official so their testimony is gonna be crucial to this,

It's not recorded tho

[Mikey]

This could turn out to be similar to the Larea Kingston episode back when the Yams weren't shy to play the racism card to deflect criticism.

[LeighLoyal]

This could turn out to be similar to the Larea Kingston episode back when the Yams weren't shy to play the racism card to deflect criticism.



He called the guy a racist and he was married to black woman. Ouch!

[Future17]

He called the guy a racist and he was married to black woman. Ouch!

That doesn't mean he can't be racist.

[Thecat23]

All that's wrong with the game just now. Red top rags and other media having a field day with all this. I'd love a w'end when a full fixture list passes without someone getting accused of being racist/diver etc.. Folk in football make out they want it out the game as does the media but i don't believe for a min. Brings more publicity to the EPL and the teams involved.

[southfieldhibby]

Called either Mata or Torres a 'spanish tw*t' apparently

[jonty]

Called either Mata or Torres a 'spanish tw*t' apparently

whats that got to do with Mikel? Or did Clattenburg insult him later? Or was Mikel just feeling left out? We demand to know! :greengrin

[HoboHarry]

All that's wrong with the game just now. Red top rags and other media having a field day with all this. I'd love a w'end when a full fixture list passes without someone getting accused of being racist/diver etc.. Folk in football make out they want it out the game as does the media but i don't believe for a min. Brings more publicity to the EPL and the teams involved.
I think in this case it is a deflection away from the conduct of the dugouts after the game

[southfieldhibby]

whats that got to do with Mikel? Or did Clattenburg insult him later? Or was Mikel just feeling left out? We demand to know! :greengrin

Called Mikel a 'coon', apparently.Which is when I decided it's complete baws or wrong info.

[Mac]

You would think the last thing Chelsea need is to be at the centre of a racism row!!

Although a few iffy decisions you can see why he made them, the incident where Mikel got booked you can clearly see he was giving the ref pelters, Clattenburg then turned around pointed and Mikel seemed to say ok in an apologetic way, if he had made a racist comment I hardly think Mikel would have reacted in such an apologetic and accepting manner.

I think Chelsea may be better to pick up the toys and dummy and keep quiet, they arent exactly covering themselves in glory at present.

[--------]

Opinions eh !
I thought he got both sending offs correct as for the offside that was a very very difficult call.

As for inappropriate language Ibet the players say far far worse thananything a ref says.
Poor wee lambs the ref swore at me :greengrin



I didn't think there was any doubt that Torres should not have received a second yellow?!?

He didn't have the best of games, I agree, but he was doing OK until the Torres dismissal. It was after that that it all went pear-shaped.

I think it was Hansen and Le Saux on MotD who suggested that he had forgotten he had already booked Torres, or didn't realise that it was Torres, when he decided to book the guy for simulation. That would make sense - there was certainly a delay between the appearance of the yellow and red cards.

Evans admitted after the match that he had made contact, so there's no doubt now that Torres was rather hard done by. That wasn't nearly as clear at the time, though. Torres seemed to say something to the fourth official as he came off, and the fourth official seemed to make like "Nothing to do with me, mate" in return.

Ferguson's comments didn't help, of course, but when do they ever?

Since it took Sky three or four replays before the commentators could be sure that Evans had made contact with Torres, I'd have thought that Clattenberg might have been a bit more cautious than he was, especially since a second Chelsea dismissal with more than 20 minutes to go was likely to be decisive as far as the result of the match was concerned. I feel the game was getting away from him by then, actually. He wasn't in full control of things, not by a long way.

(I thought at the time he was about to book/dismiss Evans.)

Torres could, possibly should, have gone earlier on for dangerous play - putting his studs hard into Cleverley's upper chest - but he only received a yellow for that.

There were comparisons between Hernandez' goal and Arteta's for Arsenal the previous day, but IMO the Arteta goal was (or should have been a clearer and easier call. Hernandez was clearly offside - once you'd seen the replay - but the assistant didn't have a clear view of what was going on. Not as clear as we had from the Sky cameras, anyway.

Mikel was clearly not the happiest bunny after Hernandez scored, and made his displeasure very clear. He was booked, and wanted to carry the discussion farther, almost as if he was daring Clattenberg to send HIM off as well.

We had 60 minutes of terrific football, then it all fell apart. I couldn't see anything wrong with the Ivanovic red card, TBH, though that said, Young was the one who crossed in front of Ivanovic IMO, and Young also has previous for going down too easily.

And a referee should neither swear not use inappropriate epithets of whatever nature to the players - he's the referee, and should conduct himself accordingly.

[DaveF]

Called Mikel a 'coon', apparently.Which is when I decided it's complete baws or wrong info.

Was Clattenburg watching a box set of 'Love Thy Neighbour' before the game :greengrin

[--------]

Was Clattenburg watching a box set of 'Love Thy Neighbour' before the game :greengrin



"Till Death Us Do Part", maybe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOhXpmozpbE&feature=related

[DaveF]

"Till Death Us Do Part", maybe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOhXpmozpbE&feature=related

In my defence, I was a mere nipper when all that was aired!

[TheDude]

Its hard to believe this one.

A top ref in the biggest league in the world. Miked up to two other officials. Dozens of camera picking up just about every movement. Hot on the heels of a high profile case involving the England captain caught on said cameras using racist language.

[basehibby]

This couldn't just be a case of sour grapes could it??? Nah Shurely not?!?

[DaveF]

Peter Herbert from the Black Lawyers Association has reported Clattenburg to the Metropolitan Police asking them to investigate any potential racist offence committed by him.

Who knows if Clattenburg is guilty or not, but it appears the campaign is in full swing to put every bit of pressure on him.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Peter Herbert from the Black Lawyers Association has reported Clattenburg to the Metropolitan Police asking them to investigate any potential racist offence committed by him.

Who knows if Clattenburg is guilty or not, but it appears the campaign is in full swing to put every bit of pressure on him.

D, do you know if thee is a White lawyer's association?

[JimBHibees]

That doesn't mean he can't be racist.

Makes it very much more unlikely I would have thought though.

[DaveF]

D, do you know if thee is a White lawyer's association?

I would think not but I don't know. It'll just be the plain old Lawyers Association probably.

[Lucius Apuleius]

I would think not but I don't know. It'll just be the plain old Lawyers Association probably.

I would guess so. It just seems a little bit hypocritical that a black only association is calling someone else racist.

[clerriehibs]

Full page spread on this, which is an english football story, in today's scotsman. Never any such attention to that far worse and more obvious incompetent craig thomson.

[Mikey]

Caught a wee bit about it on SSN just now. His assistants are backing him up and the police are involved now too.

If nothing comes of it the police should charge the Chelsea player with wasting police time and pack him off to Siberia for 20 years hard labour.

[LeighLoyal]

Caught a wee bit about it on SSN just now. His assistants are backing him up and the police are involved now too.

If nothing comes of it the police should charge the Chelsea player with wasting police time and pack him off to Siberia for 20 years hard labour.



That's were Abramovich should be now for conning that old drunk Yeltsin.

[Golden Bear]

Its hard to believe this one.

A top ref in the biggest league in the world. Miked up to two other officials. Dozens of camera picking up just about every movement. Hot on the heels of a high profile case involving the England captain caught on said cameras using racist language.

:agree:

My sentiments as well. It's mischief making by Chelsea imo and I hope they are severely dealt with by the FA once the facts become known.

'Mon the ref in this case!

[matty_f]

Caught a wee bit about it on SSN just now. His assistants are backing him up and the police are involved now too.

If nothing comes of it the police should charge the Chelsea player with wasting police time and pack him off to Siberia for 20 years hard labour.


His assistants and the fourth official will have heard every single word that Clattenburg said during the game. If they're backing him then I can't see what evidence Chelsea can bring to the table to counter it.

You'd think the officials testimonies would be the strongest evidence available.

If Clattenburg's found not guilty, I hope Chelsea are hammered for this. (Likewise, if Clattenburg gets found guilty then he, too, should be punished.)

[Mikey]

His assistants and the fourth official will have heard every single word that Clattenburg said during the game. If they're backing him then I can't see what evidence Chelsea can bring to the table to counter it.

You'd think the officials testimonies would be the strongest evidence available.

If Clattenburg's found not guilty, I hope Chelsea are hammered for this. (Likewise, if Clattenburg gets found guilty then he, too, should be punished.)

The player's complete lack of reaction throughout the exchange speak volumes.

[Caversham Green]

I think Chelsea have created problems for themselves here. If I was a ref (I wanted to be but I passed the eyesight test) I would seriously consider refusing to take any of their games, and if I did take one I would be much harder on them for 'foul and abusive' language since they are claiming to take it so seriously.

[Mikey]

I think Chelsea have created problems for themselves here. If I was a ref (I wanted to be but I passed the eyesight test) I would seriously consider refusing to take any of their games, and if I did take one I would be much harder on them for 'foul and abusive' language since they are claiming to take it so seriously.

And I'm sure it would be easier to make an "honest mistake" :wink:

:greengrin

[hibsmad]

His assistants and the fourth official will have heard every single word that Clattenburg said during the game. If they're backing him then I can't see what evidence Chelsea can bring to the table to counter it.

You'd think the officials testimonies would be the strongest evidence available.

If Clattenburg's found not guilty, I hope Chelsea are hammered for this. (Likewise, if Clattenburg gets found guilty then he, too, should be punished.)

Ashley Cole will be along soon to back Mikel.

Even if he has already said he didn't hear anything :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

I think Chelsea have created problems for themselves here. If I was a ref (I wanted to be but I passed the eyesight test) I would seriously consider refusing to take any of their games, and if I did take one I would be much harder on them for 'foul and abusive' language since they are claiming to take it so seriously.

:faf::faf:

[Hibs7]

Peter Herbert from the Black Lawyers Association has reported Clattenburg to the Metropolitan Police asking them to investigate any potential racist offence committed by him.

Who knows if Clattenburg is guilty or not, but it appears the campaign is in full swing to put every bit of pressure on him.

If Clattenburg is proved innocent and I think he is, he should sue Peter Herbert for defamation of character, too much given to racism claims against blacks, time the White man fought back.

[JimBHibees]

If Clattenburg is proved innocent and I think he is, he should sue Peter Herbert for defamation of character, too much given to racism claims against blacks, time the White man fought back.

Nonsense all they are saying is that if he has said that then he should be banned which is 100% correct.

Your highlighted point the BNP would be proud of.

[lyonhibs]

If Clattenburg is proved innocent and I think he is, he should sue Peter Herbert for defamation of character, too much given to racism claims against blacks, time the White man fought back.

Too much what is given to racism claims against blacks ?? Notice? Interest? Importance? Credence?

[DaveF]

Nonsense all they are saying is that if he has said that then he should be banned which is 100% correct.


I do think that Herbert is covertly putting a whole heap of unneccesary pressure on Clattenburg and I don't think it's justified. He's taken it to a level where it probably does not need to go (yet) and IF Clattenburg is innocent, I don't think Herbert will be battering down the doors of the british media to publicly apologise to him for staining his character.

[Newry Hibs]

IMO Herbert is trying to justify his own importance. He spent a long time banging his own drum on 5live last week and I think he has seen an opportunity to publicise his new venture.

[easty]

IMO Herbert is trying to justify his own importance. He spent a long time banging his own drum on 5live last week and I think he has seen an opportunity to publicise his new venture.

:agree:

[--------]

His assistants and the fourth official will have heard every single word that Clattenburg said during the game. If they're backing him then I can't see what evidence Chelsea can bring to the table to counter it.

You'd think the officials testimonies would be the strongest evidence available.

If Clattenburg's found not guilty, I hope Chelsea are hammered for this. (Likewise, if Clattenburg gets found guilty then he, too, should be punished.)

It's going to reach the point where everything the officials say to one another during a game will have to be recorded.

This means Clattenberg has three witnesses in his defence, all of whom have been passed by the FA as fit to officiate at top-level matches. Should be enough to exonerate him, unless, of course, they're all in it together ...


The player's complete lack of reaction throughout the exchange speak volumes.

Indeed, Mikey. Mikel was obviously unhappy about the goal, but I saw no reaction from him of the sort I would expect if Clattenberg had used a racial insult in addressing him.


If Clattenburg is proved innocent and I think he is, he should sue Peter Herbert for defamation of character, too much given to racism claims against blacks, time the White man fought back.

Good afternoon, Mr Garnett. So glad you could join us. :bitchy:

[Hibs7]

It's going to reach the point where everything the officials say to one another during a game will have to be recorded.

This means Clattenberg has three witnesses in his defence, all of whom have been passed by the FA as fit to officiate at top-level matches. Should be enough to exonerate him, unless, of course, they're all in it together ...



Indeed, Mikey. Mikel was obviously unhappy about the goal, but I saw no reaction from him of the sort I would expect if Clattenberg had used a racial insult in addressing him.



Good afternoon, Mr Garnett. So glad you could join us. :bitchy:

Racism claims are getting out of hand, being pc to the extreme it is now is ludicrous, if the ref is guilty then he should be castigated, I have no qualms about that, if he is innocent then it shows how easy it is to make a racist claim, which is getting beyond stupidity, we get called Jocks, sweaty socks, but do you ever hear someone getting arrested for it. No more golliwogs, black boards, etc beyond stupidity.

[Beefster]

If Clattenburg is proved innocent and I think he is, he should sue Peter Herbert for defamation of character, too much given to racism claims against blacks, time the White man fought back.

What does the 'white man' have to fight back against?

[--------]

Racism claims are getting out of hand, being pc to the extreme it is now is ludicrous, if the ref is guilty then he should be castigated, I have no qualms about that, if he is innocent then it shoes how easy it is to make a racist claim, which is getting beyond stupidity, we get called Jocks, sweaty socks, but do you ever hear someone getting arrested for it. No more golliwogs, black boards, etc beyond stupidity.


And you have statistics to prove this?

"Time the White Man fought back"? You sound like Oswald Moseley or Nick Griffin.

I have grave suspicions about this particular accusation, though I would still want to wait for the outcome of the investigation - but generally speaking I would say that association football has a huge amount of work to do to get rid of bigotry of all kinds from the sport.

It appears that the one place you can safely abuse someone for the colour of their skin, their ethnic origins, theiur sexuality or even their gender is at a football ground.

(Or of course on a football fans' forum.)

[Hibs7]

What does the 'white man' have to fight back against?

See the post above, and tell me how many racist cases has there been from a white man against a coloured man. And don't say they are not racist I have come up against it, they are not saints.

[Hiber-nation]

See the post above, and tell me how many racist cases has there been from a white man against a coloured man. And don't say they are not racist I have come up against it, they are not saints.

Any colour in particular? :rolleyes:

[Hibs7]

W
Any colour in particular? :rolleyes:

Green

[Beefster]

See the post above, and tell me how many racist cases has there been from a white man against a coloured man. And don't say they are not racist I have come up against it, they are not saints.

You seem to think that all 'coloured' men are the same. There are racists in every race but just like it's pointless calling me, a white male, a racist because some idiot made monkey chants at a black football player, it's idiotic to discuss a race being racist or 'not saints'.

[Bill Milne]

The complaint to the police appears to have been made by the "Society of Black Lawyers", rather than Chelsea or the players concerned. It remains to be seen what their interest is, unless they are trying to prove that football is institutionally racist.

[Golden Bear]

The complaint to the police appears to have been made by the "Society of Black Lawyers", rather than Chelsea or the players concerned. It remains to be seen what their interest is, unless they are trying to prove that football is institutionally racist.

Or promote themselves.

:rolleyes:

[marinello59]

Racism claims are getting out of hand, being pc to the extreme it is now is ludicrous, if the ref is guilty then he should be castigated, I have no qualms about that, if he is innocent then it shows how easy it is to make a racist claim, which is getting beyond stupidity, we get called Jocks, sweaty socks, but do you ever hear someone getting arrested for it. No more golliwogs, black boards, etc beyond stupidity.

:rolleyes:

[Hibs7]

You seem to think that all 'coloured' men are the same. There are racists in every race but just like it's pointless calling me, a white male, a racist because some idiot made monkey chants at a black football player, it's idiotic to discuss a race being racist or 'not saints'.

I never said all, this country is one of the most welcoming countries in the world to other races, but we seem to be getting more and more race complaints and they all seem to be against whites is all I am saying. To much being made of this in my opinion.

[CropleyWasGod]

I never said all, this country is one of the most welcoming countries in the world to other races, but we seem to be getting more and more race complaints and they all seem to be against whites is all I am saying. To much being made of this in my opinion.

Do you have any stats on this?

[Eyrie]

I never said all, this country is one of the most welcoming countries in the world to other races, but we seem to be getting more and more race complaints and they all seem to be against whites is all I am saying.
The you haven't been paying attention (http://www.scotsman.com/news/skint-singer-finley-quaye-sees-sentence-delayed-over-lawyer-s-fee-1-2489295).


To much being made of this in my opinion.
Most of us are of the opinion that no-one should be so ignorant as to make such remarks in the first place, and those that do deserve what they get.

[Sir David Gray]

This is just getting ridiculous now.

We've now arrived at a situation in this country where someone can be reported for racism when the alleged victim isn't even the person making the accusation!

First it was Lee Croft who was reported for making racist comments towards a ballboy. He was vilified in the press and was publicly threatened by people via his twitter page. After a police investigation lasting a couple of weeks, although Croft admitted swearing towards the boy (which he apologised for), he did not use any racist language. To make matters worse the report was made, not by the ball boy, but by fans of Sheffield United!

Now it is Mark Clattenburg who's the target and one of the people he's allegedly abused on Sunday, Juan Mata, apparently heard nothing from Clattenburg towards him during the match that was in any way abusive.

Now we're getting lots of people coming out and implying that because it's been reported, there must be no smoke without fire.

All that is achieved from that kind of mentality is that it encourages all sorts of mischief makers to come out and make up lies and malicious rumours about people that they don't like.

With the way that racism is viewed nowadays in Britain, anyone who is accused of such abuse will often be viewed with suspicion from many people, regardless of whether the accusations have any foundation or not.

As far as I'm concerned, there's not enough of a punishment for people who make up accusations of racist abuse. This can destroy people's lives and anyone who is just being vindictive and deliberately lying to get people into trouble should be severely punished and if it involves any criminal proceedings taking place as a result of these lies then I strongly believe that they should be jailed.

There's not enough of a deterrent for people thinking about making up accusations like this and I think that's wrong and all that it does is detract from the cases where people ARE genuinely racially abused because it will soon get to the point where people will automatically doubt the accuracy of these accusations and real victims won't be believed.

PS-How ironic that it's Chelsea shouting from the rooftops about allegations of racial abuse when we've just had a year long case involving their own captain where they have publicly backed him along the way, have refused to sack him after he's been found guilty following an FA investigation and are allowing him to retain the captaincy!

[CFC]

Indeed, Mikey. Mikel was obviously unhappy about the goal, but I saw no reaction from him of the sort I would expect if Clattenberg had used a racial insult in addressing him.

Thats because Mikel did not hear the alleged slur, Ramires and Luiz did.

As to be expected many people on here making knee jerk judgements before a comprehensive investigation has been conducted and all the facts of the case are known - you have to love trials by the media/public.

[DaveF]

Thats because Mikel did not hear the alleged slur, Ramires and Luiz did.

As to be expected many people on here making knee jerk judgements before a comprehensive investigation has been conducted and all the facts of the case are known - you have to love trials by the media/public.

Go on then, fill us in on the facts.

[Love the Green]

Man UTD have put Howard Webb on the transfer list after the dream debut of new signing Mark Clattenburg.

"keep the faith":wink:

[CFC]

Go on then, fill us in on the facts.

They won't be established until the investigation is completed will they?

[ronaldo7]

Whatever happened to the rule that only the captain should approach the referee and ask about decisions being made. Mikel was in the refs ear most of the game, and only when he continued after losing the goal was he then booked. The refs will bite back on this one.


Was Mikel Captain on Sunday??

[Love the Green]

Whatever happened to the rule that only the captain should approach the referee and ask about decisions being made. Mikel was in the refs ear most of the game, and only when he continued after losing the goal was he then booked. The refs will bite back on this one.


Was Mikel Captain on Sunday??

Is SHREK captain every week?
You are on the wind up aren't you
"keep the faith":wink:

[ronaldo7]

Is SHREK captain every week?
You are on the wind up aren't you
"keep the faith":wink:

I'm talking about ALL teams here. This rule was supposed to be adhered to. No respect by players towards the referee so we now have things getting out of hand. The clattenburg allegations aside, if the players allowed the captain to go to the ref instead of everyone in their ears most of the game, they might get some decisions correct.

Do you know who the Chelsea captain was on Sunday?

[DaveF]

They won't be established until the investigation is completed will they?

I thought you were a bit more in the know, as I've not read anywhere the Ramires / Luiz thing.

Anyway, who is conducting the trial by media? Its your club who made the complaint, followed by a prominent black lawyer involving the police. Clattenburg might well be guilty but as far as I can tell he has made no public comment to the media.

Or are you saying that its not fair game for messageboards?

[hibsbollah]

This is just getting ridiculous now.

We've now arrived at a situation in this country where someone can be reported for racism when the alleged victim isn't even the person making the accusation!

First it was Lee Croft who was reported for making racist comments towards a ballboy. He was vilified in the press and was publicly threatened by people via his twitter page. After a police investigation lasting a couple of weeks, although Croft admitted swearing towards the boy (which he apologised for), he did not use any racist language. To make matters worse the report was made, not by the ball boy, but by fans of Sheffield United!

Now it is Mark Clattenburg who's the target and one of the people he's allegedly abused on Sunday, Juan Mata, apparently heard nothing from Clattenburg towards him during the match that was in any way abusive.

Now we're getting lots of people coming out and implying that because it's been reported, there must be no smoke without fire.

All that is achieved from that kind of mentality is that it encourages all sorts of mischief makers to come out and make up lies and malicious rumours about people that they don't like.

With the way that racism is viewed nowadays in Britain, anyone who is accused of such abuse will often be viewed with suspicion from many people, regardless of whether the accusations have any foundation or not.

As far as I'm concerned, there's not enough of a punishment for people who make up accusations of racist abuse. This can destroy people's lives and anyone who is just being vindictive and deliberately lying to get people into trouble should be severely punished and if it involves any criminal proceedings taking place as a result of these lies then I strongly believe that they should be jailed.

There's not enough of a deterrent for people thinking about making up accusations like this and I think that's wrong and all that it does is detract from the cases where people ARE genuinely racially abused because it will soon get to the point where people will automatically doubt the accuracy of these accusations and real victims won't be believed.

PS-How ironic that it's Chelsea shouting from the rooftops about allegations of racial abuse when we've just had a year long case involving their own captain where they have publicly backed him along the way, have refused to sack him after he's been found guilty following an FA investigation and are allowing him to retain the captaincy!


Your posts on this subject generally seem to complain that 'it's gone too far the other way' and this country has become too unforgiving towards racism. Do you think racism is a bad thing and people using racist language should be punished or not?

Im surprised you find it so unbelievable that a complainant about racist language isn't always the victim of the abuse. It's completely irrelevant. Everybody has the right to be offended by racism or any kind of prejudice, whether you're the recipient of abuse, part of the same 'group' as the recipient of the abuse, or just a passerby who happens to hear it. It's a fairly fundamental, well understood position both morally and legally, I would have thought.

[VickMackie]

I bet Terry was in the refs ear whispering 'go and call Mikel a @"&)£&@' then disappears s******ing, waiting for carnage to ensue! :tee hee:




I know Terry wasn't playing and the @"&'s don't mean anything....

[Part/Time Supporter]

This could turn out to be similar to the Larea Kingston episode back when the Yams weren't shy to play the racism card to deflect criticism.

Looks like someone in BBC Scotland also remembered that embarrassing episode.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20145907


Conroy told BBC Scotland: "I had never experienced anything like that before.

"He repeatedly called me a racist as I was sending him off - it was most upsetting!"

But a few days later Kingston admitted that was not the case and sincerely regretted making such a remark.

[CFC]

I thought you were a bit more in the know, as I've not read anywhere the Ramires / Luiz thing.

Its been reported in the media that it was the two Brazilians that heard it, whether that in itself is accurate we will have to see:


Chelsea pair David Luiz and Ramires reportedly informed John Obi Mikel that referee Mark Clattenburg had used racist language while speaking to the midfielder during the Blues' defeat to Manchester United on Sunday.

Read the full story on Sports Mole at: http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/chelsea/racism-in-football/news/chelsea-duo-heard-racial-slurs_52299.html


Anyway, who is conducting the trial by media?
Or are you saying that its not fair game for messageboards?

Of course its great fodder for the tabloids - thats how they sell papers - and messageboards but when people start making judgements based on incomplete information and idle conjecture it starts getting silly, Doddies point about Mikel's lack of a reaction is entirely moot because Mikel supposedly never heard it in the first place.

[JimBHibees]

Its been reported in the media that it was the two Brazilians that heard it, whether that in itself is accurate we will have to see:





Of course its great fodder for the tabloids - thats how they sell papers - and messageboards but when people start making judgements based on incomplete information and idle conjecture it starts getting silly, Doddies point about Mikel's lack of a reaction is entirely moot because Mikel supposedly never heard it in the first place.

Is this the same Mikel who was in earshot of Terry's abuse in the QPR game and chose to say nothing? A little ironic.

[pontius pilate]

I myself was charged with a racist breach of the peace for calling my ex a stupid English cow. However I made the point that she called me a Scottish prick she never got charged so how does that work out all these remarks were made in front of Lothian and borders finest.

[DaveF]

Heard on 5live this morning that the word apparently heard was 'monkey'.

So if Clattenburg is guilty then he's finished his exchange with Mikel and wandered past Ramires and Luis while commenting out loud about a monkey.

[CropleyWasGod]

I myself was charged with a racist breach of the peace for calling my ex a stupid English cow. However I made the point that she called me a Scottish prick she never got charged so how does that work out all these remarks were made in front of Lothian and borders finest.

Maybe the Court decided she was telling the truth? :greengrin

[Beefster]

I never said all, this country is one of the most welcoming countries in the world to other races, but we seem to be getting more and more race complaints and they all seem to be against whites is all I am saying. To much being made of this in my opinion.

The complaints may seem to you to be all against whites but your perception is wrong.

In what way is too much made of racism? What would you change?

[Beefster]

Heard on 5live this morning that the word apparently heard was 'monkey'.

So if Clattenburg is guilty then he's finished his exchange with Mikel and wandered past Ramires and Luis while commenting out loud about a monkey.

Looks like it's going to come down to the officials' word (if they back Clattenburg) against Ramires, Luis and Mata. If the officials don't back Clatterburg, it should all be settled pretty quickly.

[Hibs7]

This is just getting ridiculous now.

We've now arrived at a situation in this country where someone can be reported for racism when the alleged victim isn't even the person making the accusation!

First it was Lee Croft who was reported for making racist comments towards a ballboy. He was vilified in the press and was publicly threatened by people via his twitter page. After a police investigation lasting a couple of weeks, although Croft admitted swearing towards the boy (which he apologised for), he did not use any racist language. To make matters worse the report was made, not by the ball boy, but by fans of Sheffield United!

Now it is Mark Clattenburg who's the target and one of the people he's allegedly abused on Sunday, Juan Mata, apparently heard nothing from Clattenburg towards him during the match that was in any way abusive.

Now we're getting lots of people coming out and implying that because it's been reported, there must be no smoke without fire.

All that is achieved from that kind of mentality is that it encourages all sorts of mischief makers to come out and make up lies and malicious rumours about people that they don't like.

With the way that racism is viewed nowadays in Britain, anyone who is accused of such abuse will often be viewed with suspicion from many people, regardless of whether the accusations have any foundation or not.

As far as I'm concerned, there's not enough of a punishment for people who make up accusations of racist abuse. This can destroy people's lives and anyone who is just being vindictive and deliberately lying to get people into trouble should be severely punished and if it involves any criminal proceedings taking place as a result of these lies then I strongly believe that they should be jailed.

There's not enough of a deterrent for people thinking about making up accusations like this and I think that's wrong and all that it does is detract from the cases where people ARE genuinely racially abused because it will soon get to the point where people will automatically doubt the accuracy of these accusations and real victims won't be believed.

PS-How ironic that it's Chelsea shouting from the rooftops about allegations of racial abuse when we've just had a year long case involving their own captain where they have publicly backed him along the way, have refused to sack him after he's been found guilty following an FA investigation and are allowing him to retain the captaincy!


At last common sense,

[poolman]

I myself was charged with a racist breach of the peace for calling my ex a stupid English cow. However I made the point that she called me a Scottish prick she never got charged so how does that work out all these remarks were made in front of Lothian and borders finest.


:faf:

[Hibs7]

The complaints may seem to you to be all against whites but your perception is wrong.

In what way is too much made of racism? What would you change?

So if my perception is wrong quote me some, in fact any case where a coloured man has been charged with racism against a white man in this country.

I would change all the stupid laws pertaining to Christmas, Easter etc .. we are a Christian country and should not pander to foreigners who live here, then complain about our traditions and beliefs. If they don't like it then ***** off back to where they came.

[CropleyWasGod]

So if my perception is wrong quote me some, in fact any case where a coloured man has been charged with racism against a white man in this country.

I would change all the stupid laws pertaining to Christmas, Easter etc .. we are a Christian country and should not pander to foreigners who live here, then complain about our traditions and beliefs. If they don't like it then ***** off back to where they came.

Finley Quaye?

[Hibs7]

Finley Quaye?

Is that a harbour ?

Maybe some of you should try working in their countries and then you might realise what racism is really like at its worst. Calling someone names is laughable compared to what they do.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is that a harbour ?

Maybe some of you should try working in their countries and then you might realise what racism is really like at its worst. Calling someone names is laughable compared to what they do.

It's an example of a "coloured" man being convicted of racially aggravated breach of the peace against a white woman. In Leith, no less.

And I have experienced racism in Africa, in the Middle East, in India, in the Caribbean. It's not nice. However, that gives me (or anybody else) no justification for accepting, or ignoring, any racism carried out by people in my own environment.

[Hibs7]

It's an example of a "coloured" man being convicted of racially aggravated breach of the peace against a white woman. In Leith, no less.

And I have experienced racism in Africa, in the Middle East, in India, in the Caribbean. It's not nice. However, that gives me (or anybody else) no justification for accepting, or ignoring, any racism carried out by people in my own environment.

Didn't get national publicity though did it, now if it was the other way round..... and that is my original point.

[CropleyWasGod]

Didn't get national publicity though did it, now if it was the other way round..... and that is my original point.

Why would a minor celebrity, famous only in parts of his own back yard and his own mind, get national coverage for breaking the law? The story was on the front page of the EEN, which is entirely appropriate.

[Beefster]

So if my perception is wrong quote me some, in fact any case where a coloured man has been charged with racism against a white man in this country.

I would change all the stupid laws pertaining to Christmas, Easter etc .. we are a Christian country and should not pander to foreigners who live here, then complain about our traditions and beliefs. If they don't like it then ***** off back to where they came.

CWG has already quoted the case of Finlay Quaye and there is the murder of Kriss Donald. Presumably, you'll now accept that you were wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kriss_Donald

What laws? I'm a white Catholic who has never had any problem celebrating Easter or Christmas. If you're talking about some councils calling Christmas 'Winter Festival' or whatever then that's not really about racism. Incidentally, the vast majority of folk, of all races, who live in this country are UK citizens so don't have somewhere to "***** off back to where they came".


Didn't get national publicity though did it, now if it was the other way round..... and that is my original point.

The vast majority of racism cases, committed by whatever race, don't get national publicity.

[Mac]

Heard on 5live this morning that the word apparently heard was 'monkey'.

So if Clattenburg is guilty then he's finished his exchange with Mikel and wandered past Ramires and Luis while commenting out loud about a monkey.

So 2 Brazilian players well away from either incident as shown on TV, together and united back each other in regards to the word 'monkey' being used!!

I am sorry i just aint buying this, surely if it was that loud and the number of players around at the time then there would be more than just these guys shouting about it, just not buying this at all.

[DaveF]

So 2 Brazilian players well away from either incident as shown on TV, together and united back each other in regards to the word 'monkey' being used!!

I am sorry i just aint buying this, surely if it was that loud and the number of players around at the time then there would be more than just these guys shouting about it, just not buying this at all.

I've no idea in what context or where on the pitch (or off it) the word was apparently used, so my take on things is just that - a take on it.

I agree though, it does not really add up and smacks of Chelsea being 'at it'. Hopefully it's acted on and dealt with soon.

[pontius pilate]

Maybe the Court decided she was telling the truth? :greengrin

She never got charged at all. Common sense prevailed anyway as the sheriff admonished me. As there was numerous assault charges as well. My point in the main was we get called sweaty socks jocks haggis bashers etc etc and how often do we play the racism card. The allegations against mark clattenburg may or may not be true and I will hold judgement untill the truth comes out. But if you look at Mikel's reaction it's more disappointment at losing the goal rather than anything the ref had or had not said to him.

[jonty]

I've no idea in what context or where on the pitch (or off it) the word was apparently used, so my take on things is just that - a take on it.

I agree though, it does not really add up and smacks of Chelsea being 'at it'. Hopefully it's acted on and dealt with soon.

I'm guessing their first language is spanish and second is english.

Unless they're completely fluent in english, them i'm guessing that it's difficult to prove thats excatly what they heard.

Speculation: Its more likely they've misheard. Spanish for monkey is 'mono' (according to our friend google) so not beyond the realms of possibily that Clattenburg used the word 'moaning'

either way, I'm sure three assistants who's first language is english are more likely to be believed (purely on the language front).
Unless its a consipracy and they're all at it.

[Mac]

I've no idea in what context or where on the pitch (or off it) the word was apparently used, so my take on things is just that - a take on it.

I agree though, it does not really add up and smacks of Chelsea being 'at it'. Hopefully it's acted on and dealt with soon.

Yeah and you would think the PR guys would reign the whole thing in until the following day, players arent the brightest in general and they probably werent in the best frame of mind after the game, therefore they surely should have been advised to keep a lid on it, arranged a meeting the following day and if all stories added up then they go quietly to the FA and report an ALLEDGED racist comment which MAY need investigated.

The last thing Chelsea need is further racist stories and I think they have been caught up in the whole emotion of the match and overeacted to something they may or not have heard, this should have been dealt with internally by Chelsea first before making everything public as they have now backed themselves into a corner.

I think if the allegations are proved to be completely unfounded the FA will need to punish them as they cant be seen to be lenient against anyone making false racist allegations against one of their officials.

Also hate the media circus now digging up all Clattenburg's previous business failures etc, they really are lowlife.

[SlickShoes]

So if my perception is wrong quote me some, in fact any case where a coloured man has been charged with racism against a white man in this country.

I would change all the stupid laws pertaining to Christmas, Easter etc .. we are a Christian country and should not pander to foreigners who live here, then complain about our traditions and beliefs. If they don't like it then ***** off back to where they came.

Don't tar us all with your racist brush, I am not Christian, nor am I a foreigner, I don't care what Christmas is called and I love meeting people from other parts of the world.

[Hibs7]

Don't tar us all with your racist brush, I am not Christian, nor am I a foreigner, I don't care what Christmas is called and I love meeting people from other parts of the world.


;-)

[Caversham Green]

I'm guessing their first language is spanish and second is english.

Unless they're completely fluent in english, them i'm guessing that it's difficult to prove thats excatly what they heard.

Speculation: Its more likely they've misheard. Spanish for monkey is 'mono' (according to our friend google) so not beyond the realms of possibily that Clattenburg used the word 'moaning'

either way, I'm sure three assistants who's first language is english are more likely to be believed (purely on the language front).
Unless its a consipracy and they're all at it.

Brazilians' first language is Portuguese and the Portuguese word for monkey is macaco. :nerd:


Yeah and you would think the PR guys would reign the whole thing in until the following day, players arent the brightest in general and they probably werent in the best frame of mind after the game, therefore they surely should have been advised to keep a lid on it, arranged a meeting the following day and if all stories added up then they go quietly to the FA and report an ALLEDGED racist comment which MAY need investigated.

The last thing Chelsea need is further racist stories and I think they have been caught up in the whole emotion of the match and overeacted to something they may or not have heard, this should have been dealt with internally by Chelsea first before making everything public as they have now backed themselves into a corner.

I think if the allegations are proved to be completely unfounded the FA will need to punish them as they cant be seen to be lenient against anyone making false racist allegations against one of their officials.

Also hate the media circus now digging up all Clattenburg's previous business failures etc, they really are lowlife.

Chelsea have a bit of history regarding smear campaigns and it seems to be driven by their PR people. They came up with all sorts of vindictive rubbish about Reading FC, their medical staff, Steve Coppell, the stadium, Berkshire Health Service etc after the Stephen Hunt/Petr Cech incident. Reading FC denied all of it and proved most of it to be wrong but are still waiting for an apology. I seem to remember them having a go at another referee (possibly Graham Poll) for using inappropriate language towards Ashley Cole (funny how his name crops up so often).

I'm afraid Chelsea are England's version of Rangers.

[jonty]

Brazilians' first language is Portuguese and the Portuguese word for monkey is macaco. :nerd:


:na na:


Bang goes the theory! :greengrin

[Hibs Class]

Brazilians' first language is Portuguese and the Portuguese word for monkey is macaco. :nerd:



Chelsea have a bit of history regarding smear campaigns and it seems to be driven by their PR people. They came up with all sorts of vindictive rubbish about Reading FC, their medical staff, Steve Coppell, the stadium, Berkshire Health Service etc after the Stephen Hunt/Petr Cech incident. Reading FC denied all of it and proved most of it to be wrong but are still waiting for an apology. I seem to remember them having a go at another referee (possibly Graham Poll) for using inappropriate language towards Ashley Cole (funny how his name crops up so often).

I'm afraid Chelsea are England's version of Rangers.

I can clear that one up - all Graham Poll said was "I'm booking you Ash Cole" and it escalated from there :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

Yeah and you would think the PR guys would reign the whole thing in until the following day, players arent the brightest in general and they probably werent in the best frame of mind after the game, therefore they surely should have been advised to keep a lid on it, arranged a meeting the following day and if all stories added up then they go quietly to the FA and report an ALLEDGED racist comment which MAY need investigated.

The last thing Chelsea need is further racist stories and I think they have been caught up in the whole emotion of the match and overeacted to something they may or not have heard, this should have been dealt with internally by Chelsea first before making everything public as they have now backed themselves into a corner.

I think if the allegations are proved to be completely unfounded the FA will need to punish them as they cant be seen to be lenient against anyone making false racist allegations against one of their officials.

Also hate the media circus now digging up all Clattenburg's previous business failures etc, they really are lowlife.

All of that sums it up perfectly IMO.

[--------]

So if my perception is wrong quote me some, in fact any case where a coloured man has been charged with racism against a white man in this country.

I would change all the stupid laws pertaining to Christmas, Easter etc .. we are a Christian country and should not pander to foreigners who live here, then complain about our traditions and beliefs. If they don't like it then ***** off back to where they came.

You're not channelling Joseph Goebbels, by any chance? Because you sound awfully like him ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv9yHe6gdes




Don't tar us all with your racist brush, I am not Christian, nor am I a foreigner, I don't care what Christmas is called and I love meeting people from other parts of the world.

I think this is a bit of a red herring, TBH. I personally don't believe in the concept of a 'Christian' country. People are Christian - or not, as the case may be. Countries are geopolitical structures whose ethos may be more or less influenced by Judaeo-Christian ethics - or any other system of ethics - but as soon as you mix realpolitik with the Christian Gospel, you lose the Gospel. Christ Himself wan't interested (as far as I can see) in setting up 'this-world' political structures.

Influencing them, yes. Changing them? Not so sure. Setting up theocratic political structures? Not at all.

But this IS a red herring. The only question in my mind is whether Mr Clattenberg racially abused any of the Chelsea players. I saw nothing from any of them of the sort of violent reactions I would expect if the Mr Clattenberg had done so. Not during the game, anyway.

he was miked up to his assistants and to the fourth official. Unless they're all three covering for him (and I suppose that that could be a possibility) he didn't say what he's been alleged to ahve said.

The affair may boil down to a misunderstanding. It may be that Mr Clattenberg is guilty. Or it may be that Chelsea as a club are attempting to blacken the referee's name with a view to influencing him and other referees to favour Chelsea in future matches.

[Golden Bear]

You're not channelling Joseph Goebbels, by any chance? Because you sound awfully like him ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv9yHe6gdes





I think this is a bit of a red herring, TBH. I personally don't believe in the concept of a 'Christian' country. People are Christian - or not, as the case may be. Countries are geopolitical structures whose ethos may be more or less influenced by Judaeo-Christian ethics - or any other system of ethics - but as soon as you mix realpolitik with the Christian Gospel, you lose the Gospel. Christ Himself wan't interested (as far as I can see) in setting up 'this-world' political structures.

Influencing them, yes. Changing them? Not so sure. Setting up theocratic political structures? Not at all.

But this IS a red herring. The only question in my mind is whether Mr Clattenberg racially abused any of the Chelsea players. I saw nothing from any of them of the sort of violent reactions I would expect if the Mr Clattenberg had done so. Not during the game, anyway.

he was miked up to his assistants and to the fourth official. Unless they're all three covering for him (and I suppose that that could be a possibility) he didn't say what he's been alleged to ahve said.

The affair may boil down to a misunderstanding. It may be that Mr Clattenberg is guilty. Or it may be that Chelsea as a club are attempting to blacken the referee's name with a view to influencing him and other referees to favour Chelsea in future matches.

:shocked:

:greengrin

[Mac]

Brazilians' first language is Portuguese and the Portuguese word for monkey is macaco. :nerd:



Chelsea have a bit of history regarding smear campaigns and it seems to be driven by their PR people. They came up with all sorts of vindictive rubbish about Reading FC, their medical staff, Steve Coppell, the stadium, Berkshire Health Service etc after the Stephen Hunt/Petr Cech incident. Reading FC denied all of it and proved most of it to be wrong but are still waiting for an apology. I seem to remember them having a go at another referee (possibly Graham Poll) for using inappropriate language towards Ashley Cole (funny how his name crops up so often).

I'm afraid Chelsea are England's version of Rangers.

Think thats a bit of a sweeping statement regarding a history of smear campaigns, they raised 2 issues probably less then Manure do in one season and lets not even mention Liverpool at present (at this point i declare my loathing for Chelsea as a club)

The very public and legal cases surrounding Chelsea recently are something that any PR department in any FC or business would want to bury into history ASAP so for them to take this action is plain suicide on their part unless they have a real case and therefore Mr Clattenburg is about to lose his job and will also face prosecution.

If i was a betting man and have watched the game and the various clips since, I think there is no case to answer, therefor Chelsea will face further scrutiny with a racist connatation.

[CFC]

Brazilians' first language is Portuguese and the Portuguese word for monkey is macaco. :nerd:



Chelsea have a bit of history regarding smear campaigns and it seems to be driven by their PR people. They came up with all sorts of vindictive rubbish about Reading FC, their medical staff, Steve Coppell, the stadium, Berkshire Health Service etc after the Stephen Hunt/Petr Cech incident. Reading FC denied all of it and proved most of it to be wrong but are still waiting for an apology. I seem to remember them having a go at another referee (possibly Graham Poll) for using inappropriate language towards Ashley Cole (funny how his name crops up so often).

I'm afraid Chelsea are England's version of Rangers.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00897/SNN2826B-280_897461a.jpg

[JoeTortolanoFanClub]

Brazilians' first language is Portuguese and the Portuguese word for monkey is macaco. :nerd:
.

I speak Portuguese and confirm that is correct. I suppose 'Mikel' and 'macaco' could sound similar in a noisy stadium.

[Caversham Green]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00897/SNN2826B-280_897461a.jpg


:na na:
:giruy::fenlon


It's all true though isn't it?

[marinello59]

Didn't get national publicity though did it, now if it was the other way round..... and that is my original point.

I read about it in the national press.

[Apocalypso]

Clattenburg is a Jew name right ? :cb

[CFC]

It's all true though isn't it?

To Celtic minded people of course it is. Sundays complaint is just another episode in the grand Masonic/Chelsea/Rangers scheme.

Realistically though perhaps Clattenburg did actually use a racial slur. However its more likely that he didn't and the two players who reported it misheard and he will be vindicated once all the facts of the case come to light. Regardless, the idea that some Chelsea PR puppetmaster/evil genius operating behind the scenes would coerce players into making false allegations is the kind of hysterical paranoia John Reid and Neil Lennon would be proud of.

[Baldy Foghorn]

To Celtic minded people of course it is. Sundays complaint is just another episode in the grand Masonic/Chelsea/Rangers scheme.

Realistically though perhaps Clattenburg did actually use a racial slur. However its more likely that he didn't and the two players who reported it misheard and he will be vindicated once all the facts of the case come to light. Regardless, the idea that some Chelsea PR puppetmaster/evil genius operating behind the scenes would coerce players into making false allegations is the kind of hysterical paranoia John Reid and Neil Lennon would be proud of.

Given your avatar, you obviously have leanings towards Derhun, but not sure why Reid/Lennon are cited in a possible racist attack in England. Maybe it suits your agenda?

[CFC]

Given your avatar, you obviously have leanings towards Derhun, but not sure why Reid/Lennon are cited in a possible racist attack in England. Maybe it suits your agenda?

I don't have an agenda - if people are going to state that "Chelsea are the Huns of England" then I'm going to reply in kind.

The idea that Chelsea would manufacture a false allegation of racism is paranoia plain and simple. Whats effectively being suggested is that Ron Gourlay told Ramires and Luiz to lie to Mikel about a racial slur they claim to have heard so he could report it to the Football Association - what do Chelsea have to gain from that? In fact if disproven it would be a quite catastrophic public relations backfire.

In this day and age anything pertaining to race is taken very seriously indeed. If someone in the management at Chelsea is informed that one of the players has been racially abused its the responsibility of the club to the report it to the FA is it not?

[Baldy Foghorn]

I don't have an agenda - if people are going to state that "Chelsea are the Huns of England" then I'm going to reply in kind.

The idea that Chelsea would manufacture a false allegation of racism is paranoia plain and simple. Whats effectively being suggested is that Ron Gourlay told Ramires and Luiz to lie to Mikel about a racial slur they claim to have heard so he could report it to the Football Association - what do Chelsea have to gain from that? In fact if disproven it would be a quite catastrophic public relations backfire.

In this day and age anything pertaining to race is taken very seriously indeed. If someone in the management at Chelsea is informed that one of the players has been racially abused its the responsibility of the club to the report it to the FA is it not?

Of course, saddening to think that in 2012, we still have racism within our game. It needs to be eradicated in full, and anyone found guilty should be kicked out of the game, time to start taking it seriously.....

[Caversham Green]

To Celtic minded people of course it is. Sundays complaint is just another episode in the grand Masonic/Chelsea/Rangers scheme.

Realistically though perhaps Clattenburg did actually use a racial slur. However its more likely that he didn't and the two players who reported it misheard and he will be vindicated once all the facts of the case come to light. Regardless, the idea that some Chelsea PR puppetmaster/evil genius operating behind the scenes would coerce players into making false allegations is the kind of hysterical paranoia John Reid and Neil Lennon would be proud of.

Absolute drivel from start to finish. Neither I nor Reading FC are remotely "Celtic minded". That post, together with your reaction to my comments and your avatar suggest that you are living proof of the similarities between Chelsea and Rangers though. I'm sure I could dig out many more if I could be bothered.

[CFC]

Absolute drivel from start to finish. Neither I nor Reading FC are remotely "Celtic minded". That post, together with your reaction to my comments and your avatar suggest that you are living proof of the similarities between Chelsea and Rangers though. I'm sure I could dig out many more if I could be bothered.


The avatar is ironic, feel free to trawl through my posts anyway, http://www.hibs.net/search.php?searchid=460330

[Cabbage East]

The avatar is ironic, feel free to trawl through my posts anyway, http://www.hibs.net/search.php?searchid=460330

So you're not a Rangers/Chelsea fan then?

[CFC]

So you're not a Rangers/Chelsea fan then?

Not at all, Chelsea/Hibs. My avatar was an attempt to satirise ignorant nonsense like this:


I'm afraid Chelsea are England's version of Rangers.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Not at all, Chelsea/Hibs. My avatar was an attempt to satirise ignorant nonsense like this:

You surely must appreciate why you have been tarred with the same brush, considering you have CFC and Derhun crests merged in your avatar......

No self respecting hibby would have anything to do with Derhun in their avatar (unless it was Hector the tax man) IMO

[Caversham Green]

Not at all, Chelsea/Hibs. My avatar was an attempt to satirise ignorant nonsense like this:

I've seen Chelsea's PR machine in action and I've seen Chelsea's fans in action and I stand by what I said. Sticking up a picture of Worzel Gummidge with no comment because you think I'm a Reading fan is Chelsea fan-type banter.

[CFC]

I've seen Chelsea's PR machine in action and I've seen Chelsea's fans in action and I stand by what I said.
Good for you Neil.


Sticking up a picture of Worzel Gummidge with no comment because you think I'm a Reading fan is Chelsea fan-type banter.
I'm from Binfield and rib anyone west of Wokingham as being a carrot cruncher, nothing to get precious about.


No self respecting hibby would have anything to do with Derhun in their avatar
I've been tarred as a Hun for being a Chelsea fan multiple times by Hibbies despite the fact I'm a) not a bigot and b) not a Rangers fan, tell me why can't I poke fun at the stupidity of it once?

[Caversham Green]

Good for you Neil.


I'm from Binfield and rib anyone west of Wokingham as being a carrot cruncher, nothing to get precious about.


I've been tarred as a Hun for being a Chelsea fan multiple times by Hibbies despite the fact I'm a) not a bigot and b) not a Rangers fan, tell me why can't I poke fun at the stupidity of it once?

Not getting precious, just observing that sneering at the country bumpkin untermensch is a very Chelsea thing to do. But if you're from Binfield you'll sound far more like ol' Worzel than I do - I'm more Beechgrove Garden.

[--------]

To add a little more oo-oo-oomph to the original topic, folks ....

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/league-cup-chelsea-fan-pictured-making-monkey-gesture-101323228.html

This was last night, Danny Welbeck apparently the target, and no, I don't know if anyone has a video of the plook but it looks fairly clear to me what he's up to.

[CropleyWasGod]

To add a little more oo-oo-oomph to the original topic, folks ....

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/league-cup-chelsea-fan-pictured-making-monkey-gesture-101323228.html

This was last night, Danny Welbeck apparently the target, and no, I don't know if anyone has a video of the plook but it looks fairly clear to me what he's up to.

Me too. Clearly he has dropped the lanterns he was taking home for the kids.

[johnrebus]

To add a little more oo-oo-oomph to the original topic, folks ....

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/league-cup-chelsea-fan-pictured-making-monkey-gesture-101323228.html

This was last night, Danny Welbeck apparently the target, and no, I don't know if anyone has a video of the plook but it looks fairly clear to me what he's up to.


Looks like the lad is just re-inacting a Monty Python sketch from c. 1971..........,


Or maybe not.


:bitchy:

[Baldy Foghorn]

To add a little more oo-oo-oomph to the original topic, folks ....

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/league-cup-chelsea-fan-pictured-making-monkey-gesture-101323228.html

This was last night, Danny Welbeck apparently the target, and no, I don't know if anyone has a video of the plook but it looks fairly clear to me what he's up to.

Selective racism eh, making monkey signals to Welbeck whilst a fair few Black's in the Chelsea team, the irony eh?

Same happened at Tynie when some boy was calling Fitzroy Simpson all the names under the sun, when I pointed out that we have black's in our team, he said "Aye, but they are Hibbies"....

My personal view is that anyone found guilty of racism at football should be taken out back and shot (or a banning order for life at least)....

[lapsedhibee]

No self respecting hibby would have anything to do with Derhun in their avatar (unless it was Hector the tax man) IMO

Oi.

[--------]

Me too. Clearly he has dropped the lanterns he was taking home for the kids.


Looks like the lad is just re-inacting a Monty Python sketch from c. 1971..........,


Or maybe not.


:bitchy:


My question would be, "What would be the consequences if he made that gesture to the first black person he met in the street on the way home from the game?"

[Sylar]

My question would be, "What would be the consequences if he made that gesture to the first black person he met in the street on the way home from the game?"

He's undoubtedly go from perpetrator to victim.

[CropleyWasGod]

My question would be, "What would be the consequences if he made that gesture to the first black person he met in the street on the way home from the game?"

The guy would say.... Oi, honkie, you've dropped your lanterns, man. :confused:

[3pm]

I think Clattenburg will be proven not guilty. Nothing to back that up though.

[--------]

The guy would say.... Oi, honkie, you've dropped your lanterns, man. :confused:



How silly of me. Of course he would. :greengrin

[TheDude]

The idea that Chelsea would manufacture a false allegation of racism is paranoia plain and simple. Whats effectively being suggested is that Ron Gourlay told Ramires and Luiz to lie to Mikel about a racial slur they claim to have heard so he could report it to the Football Association - what do Chelsea have to gain from that? In fact if disproven it would be a quite catastrophic public relations backfire.



Eh, didnt John Terry and Ashley Cole just get done up for telling porkies to the FA in a rasicm row? All with the backing of a Chelsea higher up?

I dont think in this case that the allegation has been fabricated, I'm sure the players heard what they thought the heard, but Chelsea have just almost exactly what you alledge as "paranoia".


The rest of this thread is getting slightly depressing, white men fighting back and all that crap.

Two men heard a term of rasicm toward a another person, as of yet thats all we know. I dont think the ref is a racist, however I like everyone on this forum have no evidence of this.


To many folk getting uptight about the how wrong it is that people can freely report incidents of racism.

[3pm]

Is anyone watching te Footvallers Football Show?

Apparently, Ramires told Luiz what was said, who told Mikel.

Ray Wilkins is a guest on the show. He said Ramires could barely speak a word of English when he was there.

Shambles.

[TheMentalHibees]

To add a little more oo-oo-oomph to the original topic, folks ....

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/league-cup-chelsea-fan-pictured-making-monkey-gesture-101323228.html

This was last night, Danny Welbeck apparently the target, and no, I don't know if anyone has a video of the plook but it looks fairly clear to me what he's up to.

If this guy is found guilty, he'll no doubt get a lifetime ban from Stamford bridge, a severe punishment fitting the crime. John Terry on the other hand, the club captain who was found guilty of racial abuse, got a fine and a slap on the wrist. Doesn't that seem imbalanced from a club that claims to have a zero tolerance policy on racism of any kind?

[ronaldo7]

Just been on the news that the investigation by the police has been dropped.:aok:

Lack of evidence, and no victim came forward.

I thought Chelsea were the victims:wink:

FA Investigation to continue.

[R'Albin]

Hardly surprised at that, lying bunch of erseholes.

[ancient hibee]

Probably when the police realised that the player who claimed to have heard the insult can't speak English and had his claim translated by another player whose first language is not English they decided that Clattenburg wouldn't have needed Perry Mason to get him off.

[worcesterhibby]

seemingly the Chelsea players were moaning to Clattenberg about a decision. Clattenberg replied "I don't give a monkeys what you think, I've made my decision, get on with the game". It was in the London Standard today that the Chelsea Chairman - American Bruce Buck was the one who decided to make the complaint and when asked about the possibility that Clattenberg used the phrase "don't give a monkeys" he said “Is that a good British phrase of some sort?” looks like they have made complete idiots of themselves.

[VickMackie]

Chelsea, and the inverted racists, society of black lawyers, should be absolutely ashamed and embarrassed. They won't be.

[StarMan10]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20321225

Police accusing both the FA and Chelsea of a cover up. This story is going to be around a long time yet.

[robinp]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20321225

Police accusing both the FA and Chelsea of a cover up. This story is going to be around a long time yet.

It's this Society of Black Lawyers who are making accusations of a cover up.

I get the impression the SOBL are out to get their name in the press, especially after the 'yid' uproar last week. The best thing the press could do is stop giving them column inches and they will quickly go away.

[DaveF]

It's this Society of Black Lawyers who are making accusations of a cover up.

I get the impression the SOBL are out to get their name in the press, especially after the 'yid' uproar last week. The best thing the press could do is stop giving them column inches and they will quickly go away.

This guy Peter Herbert is fast becoming a bit of a pub bore.

[Sir David Gray]

Your posts on this subject generally seem to complain that 'it's gone too far the other way' and this country has become too unforgiving towards racism. Do you think racism is a bad thing and people using racist language should be punished or not?

Im surprised you find it so unbelievable that a complainant about racist language isn't always the victim of the abuse. It's completely irrelevant. Everybody has the right to be offended by racism or any kind of prejudice, whether you're the recipient of abuse, part of the same 'group' as the recipient of the abuse, or just a passerby who happens to hear it. It's a fairly fundamental, well understood position both morally and legally, I would have thought.

Of course I think that racism is a bad thing, I just have a different view of what is and isn't racism to a lot of other people, particularly on here anyway. People being denied jobs based on the colour of their skin is totally unacceptable and any employer who is found to have acted like this should be prosecuted. Anyone denied access to any services based on the colour of their skin is also unacceptable and again anyone who is responsible for this should be punished.

However there are a lot of things that I see and hear about nowadays that a lot of people in this country would consider to be racist or xenophobic or whatever and I personally wouldn't consider it as such.

Maybe that's just me.

On your second point, if the alleged victim is fully aware of what has been said and doesn't feel that it is necessary to report it to anyone then I don't believe that it's anyone else's place to get involved.

Obviously if it's something that's happening behind the alleged victim's back then if other people are aware of what's happening then they would have a duty to report it.

Mark Clattenburg hasn't said anything racist or out of order towards Jon Obi Mikel or Juan Mata, I can say that now with almost absolute certainty. This whole episode has just dragged an innocent man into an unnecessary investigation and put him under suspicion for the last three weeks, whilst he has been unable to carry out his duties as a referee during that time.

It's been a complete waste of everyone's time. The police have ruled that he has no case to answer and the FA should come to the same conclusion as well as quickly as possible. Chelsea should admit that they were wrong and everyone should be allowed to move on.


It's this Society of Black Lawyers who are making accusations of a cover up.

I get the impression the SOBL are out to get their name in the press, especially after the 'yid' uproar last week. The best thing the press could do is stop giving them column inches and they will quickly go away.

Personally I find it quite funny that an accusation of institutional racism is coming from a group calling itself the Society of Black Lawyers!

[lapsedhibee]

Mark Clattenburg hasn't said anything racist or out of order towards Jon Obi Mikel or Juan Mata, I can say that now with almost absolute certainty.

This is taking disciplehood to a new level.

[Hiber-nation]

This guy Peter Herbert is fast becoming a bit of a pub bore.

John Barnes and Clarke Carlisle speaking out against him. Herbert is doing black players far more harm than good.

[Beefster]

Mark Clattenburg hasn't said anything racist or out of order towards Jon Obi Mikel or Juan Mata, I can say that now with almost absolute certainty.

No, you can't. I don't think he has either but you can't say with anything like 'almost absolute certainty' unless you work for the FA or Chelsea (or are Mark Clatterburg).


Personally I find it quite funny that an accusation of institutional racism is coming from a group calling itself the Society of Black Lawyers!

In what way?

[lapsedhibee]

No, you can't. I don't think he has either but you can't say with anything like 'almost absolute certainty' unless you work for the FA or Chelsea (or are Mark Clatterburg).

Did you miss Fergie already giving the correct verdict?

[jacomo]

This guy Peter Herbert is fast becoming a bit of a pub bore.

He comes across as more of an idiot with each passing day.

Later this month he's promising to report Spurs to the police for anti-Semitic abuse... the man's a fool who probably has no idea how much people are laughing at him.

Can't imagine any black lawyer will want anything to do with his association after this.

[Hibs7]

I
Of course I think that racism is a bad thing, I just have a different view of what is and isn't racism to a lot of other people, particularly on here anyway. People being denied jobs based on the colour of their skin is totally unacceptable and any employer who is found to have acted like this should be prosecuted. Anyone denied access to any services based on the colour of their skin is also unacceptable and again anyone who is responsible for this should be punished.

However there are a lot of things that I see and hear about nowadays that a lot of people in this country would consider to be racist or xenophobic or whatever and I personally wouldn't consider it as such.

Maybe that's just me.

On your second point, if the alleged victim is fully aware of what has been said and doesn't feel that it is necessary to report it to anyone then I don't believe that it's anyone else's place to get involved.

Obviously if it's something that's happening behind the alleged victim's back then if other people are aware of what's happening then they would have a duty to report it.

Mark Clattenburg hasn't said anything racist or out of order towards Jon Obi Mikel or Juan Mata, I can say that now with almost absolute certainty. This whole episode has just dragged an innocent man into an unnecessary investigation and put him under suspicion for the last three weeks, whilst he has been unable to carry out his duties as a referee during that time.

It's been a complete waste of everyone's time. The police have ruled that he has no case to answer and the FA should come to the same conclusion as well as quickly as possible. Chelsea should admit that they were wrong and everyone should be allowed to move on.



Personally I find it quite funny that an accusation of institutional racism is coming from a group calling itself the Society of Black Lawyers!

Totally agree, people on here were screaming for his head and he is innocent ..... remember the old saying " sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me" maybe this should be applied along with common sense.!!!

[Sir David Gray]

No, you can't. I don't think he has either but you can't say with anything like 'almost absolute certainty' unless you work for the FA or Chelsea (or are Mark Clatterburg).

I'm almost certain that this whole story is nonsense and has been fabricated by Chelsea because they were annoyed at how he handled their game against Manchester Utd. The police came to that conclusion some days ago, it's time for the FA to do the same and allow him to get back to doing his job. I heard earlier that he won't hear the outcome of the FA investigation until next week now so he'll likely miss yet another week of officiating as the referees are announced on a Monday.

It's been completely unnecessary and a waste of everyone's time. It should have taken a week, at most, to take apart these baseless allegations and it's ridiculous that we're talking about this almost a month later.


In what way?

We're talking here about an organisation that has been set up along racial lines, making accusations that another organisation is "institutionally racist".

Again maybe it's just me (it probably is, it certainly wouldn't be the first time that no-one else on here has shared my outlook on a situation) but I'm not so certain that any organisation which bases itself along specific religious or racial lines is in the best position to pass comment on racism.

[lapsedhibee]

I'm almost certain that this whole story is nonsense and has been fabricated by Chelsea because they were annoyed at how he handled their game against Manchester Utd. The police came to that conclusion some days ago

Can you link to where the police came to the conclusion you attribute to them, please?

[Beefster]

I'm almost certain that this whole story is nonsense and has been fabricated by Chelsea because they were annoyed at how he handled their game against Manchester Utd. The police came to that conclusion some days ago, it's time for the FA to do the same and allow him to get back to doing his job. I heard earlier that he won't hear the outcome of the FA investigation until next week now so he'll likely miss yet another week of officiating as the referees are announced on a Monday.

It's been completely unnecessary and a waste of everyone's time. It should have taken a week, at most, to take apart these baseless allegations and it's ridiculous that we're talking about this almost a month later.



We're talking here about an organisation that has been set up along racial lines, making accusations that another organisation is "institutionally racist".

Again maybe it's just me (it probably is, it certainly wouldn't be the first time that no-one else on here has shared my outlook on a situation) but I'm not so certain that any organisation which bases itself along specific religious or racial lines is in the best position to pass comment on racism.

The police dropped the investigation due to no evidence. Nowhere have they said it was because Chelsea made up the allegations.

Do you think the National Black Police Association is racist? Do you think Stonewall have little right to comment on homophobia seeing as they only represent gay and bisexual people? To be honest, I think you need to understand context and why certain organisations are needed in the first place.

[Hibbyradge]

100% innocent.

Good old Chelsea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20420934

[Golden Bear]

Excellent news.

If ever there was a trumped up charge then it was this one.

[JimBHibees]

100% innocent.

Good old Chelsea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20420934

So how did that work. The basis of the charge was from Ramires who was further away than Mikel and Mikel wasnt able to confirm to FA what he had apparently told Ramires what Clattenburg was meant to have said. Dont really understand that.

[3pm]

Good, good.

Good luck with the 50/50 decisions Chelsea!

[DaveF]

This just shows up chelsea for what everyone thought they already were. A bunch of greeting faced trumpets pissed off because they lost the game. It kind of throws their own after match investigation into touch, given Mikel or anyone bar a portuguese speaker heard the supposed comment.

If Ramires really did think he heard that comment then Chelsea were well within their rights to report it but clearly they should have taken proper stock of the situation and did it the morning after when the raw emotions of the game had cleared. Now, they rightly should be looked upon as a club who tried to ruin a referee all because they were on the wrong end of a decision or two.

[Hibs7]

This just shows up chelsea for what everyone thought they already were. A bunch of greeting faced trumpets pissed off because they lost the game. It kind of throws their own after match investigation into touch, given Mikel or anyone bar a portuguese speaker heard the supposed comment.

If Ramires really did think he heard that comment then Chelsea were well within their rights to report it but clearly they should have taken proper stock of the situation and did it the morning after when the raw emotions of the game had cleared. Now, they rightly should be looked upon as a club who tried to ruin a referee all because they were on the wrong end of a decision or two.

Not just Chelsea, some fanatic do goodies on here were screaming for his head, I hope they think twice before labeling every one accused of racism.as racists, Chelsea and the black lawyers group should be sued by the ref for defamation of character, too easy to shout the racist abuse claim from blacks, and I don't care if you think that is racist or not

[matty_f]

Not just Chelsea, some fanatic do goodies on here were screaming for his head, I hope they think twice before labeling every one accused of racism.as racists, Chelsea and the black lawyers group should be sued by the ref for defamation of character, too easy to shout the racist abuse claim from blacks, and I don't care if you think that is racist or not


Where are these posts about? :confused:

[DaveF]

Not just Chelsea, some fanatic do goodies on here were screaming for his head, I hope they think twice before labeling every one accused of racism.as racists, Chelsea and the black lawyers group should be sued by the ref for defamation of character, too easy to shout the racist abuse claim from blacks, and I don't care if you think that is racist or not

I think it was only the chelsea / sevco fan who was putting any sort sentence on Clatteburg?

[Sir David Gray]

Well I didn't see that coming...:rolleyes:

So sad that it even got to this stage to be honest and for the authorities to take a month to come to the conclusion that the allegations were utter nonsense is ridiculous.

Hopefully Mark Clattenburg can now move on from this and get on with his career as a referee. However I fear that some people with their malicious agendas will be scrutinising every decision he makes from now on and will be asking questions any time he is involved in making controversial decisions against black players.

It'll be a shame if it does come to that.

[Sir David Gray]

The police dropped the investigation due to no evidence. Nowhere have they said it was because Chelsea made up the allegations.

Do you think the National Black Police Association is racist? Do you think Stonewall have little right to comment on homophobia seeing as they only represent gay and bisexual people? To be honest, I think you need to understand context and why certain organisations are needed in the first place.

The two examples you have given are entirely different. Your first example, Stonewall, is a charity/pressure group that is set up with the sole intention of lobbying for the rights of people who are gay, lesbian etc. Whilst I may not agree with a lot of the things that they do or say, I have no issue with organisations like this being set up.

Your second example, the NBPA, is a better comparison in relation to the organisation which we were originally talking about, the Society of Black Lawyers. I do have a problem with such organisations existing, I think they are divisive and unhelpful and I believe it often creates an "us vs them" culture within workforces, which is counter productive to the aims that they are supposedly set up for.

[CropleyWasGod]

The two examples you have given are entirely different. Your first example, Stonewall, is a charity/pressure group that is set up with the sole intention of lobbying for the rights of people who are gay, lesbian etc. Whilst I may not agree with a lot of the things that they do or say, I have no issue with organisations like this being set up.

Your second example, the NBPA, is a better comparison in relation to the organisation which we were originally talking about, the Society of Black Lawyers. I do have a problem with such organisations existing, I think they are divisive and unhelpful and I believe it often creates an "us vs them" culture within workforces, which is counter productive to the aims that they are supposedly set up for.

My experience of Stonewall over a number of years is that they are particularly divisive. They are probably a bad example to use.

However, on your main point, I think it very useful to have organisations like them and the NBPA to act as watchdogs over wider society. If their methods upset people, then there are two responses. 1. they can modify their methods (and, being relatively new, the SBL may do that) and of course 2. perhaps those who have been upset need to review their own actions.

[Keith_M]

The two examples you have given are entirely different. Your first example, Stonewall, is a charity/pressure group that is set up with the sole intention of lobbying for the rights of people who are gay, lesbian etc. Whilst I may not agree with a lot of the things that they do or say, I have no issue with organisations like this being set up.

Your second example, the NBPA, is a better comparison in relation to the organisation which we were originally talking about, the Society of Black Lawyers. I do have a problem with such organisations existing, I think they are divisive and unhelpful and I believe it often creates an "us vs them" culture within workforces, which is counter productive to the aims that they are supposedly set up for.

FH, I feel compelled to ask you this.

If the shoe had been on the other foot and it had been Manchester Utd that had made the accusation after a match where they felt cheated out of the points in a game against Chelsea, would you have been so forthright in the very strong opinions you've stated on here?

[Hiber-nation]

100% innocent.

Good old Chelsea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20420934

Its getting to the stage where I almost hate Chelsea as much as I hate hearts. Not quite though...

[Tinribs]

Its getting to the stage where I almost hate Chelsea as much as I hate hearts. Not quite though...

They are worthy of that tbh, i have disliked them since the early 80's and their racist away support.

That being said, they have played some bloody good football over the last ten years, but the whining at the moment is shameful.

Edit: I see i am on an 'S' Form..good Lord, only 26 years too late :(

[DaveF]

Chelsea still not quite able to say 'sorry' but they do express 'regret' :rolleyes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20507362

[Beefster]

The two examples you have given are entirely different. Your first example, Stonewall, is a charity/pressure group that is set up with the sole intention of lobbying for the rights of people who are gay, lesbian etc. Whilst I may not agree with a lot of the things that they do or say, I have no issue with organisations like this being set up.

Your second example, the NBPA, is a better comparison in relation to the organisation which we were originally talking about, the Society of Black Lawyers. I do have a problem with such organisations existing, I think they are divisive and unhelpful and I believe it often creates an "us vs them" culture within workforces, which is counter productive to the aims that they are supposedly set up for.

You seemed to suggest that the Society of Black Lawyers was institutionally racist because they are only open to certain sections of society/a profession rather than their purpose. Hence, my question about similar organisations.

The NBPA is there primarily to protect minority police officers and ensure they have a suitable working environment, free of racism and discrimination. I think their helpfulness or otherwise should be measured against how they are doing on those criteria.

[DaveF]

Where's Peter Herbert in all of this now?

He previously said ""Our information is that racist remarks were directed at John Mikel Obi and at Juan Mata. If so, that is wholly unacceptable in any circumstances,"

I can't find any expression of regret or an apology from this mouthpiece. Not surprised though.

[YehButNoBut]

After Clattenburg had been cleared John Mikel Obi has now been banned for 3 games for threatening Clattenburg.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20631964
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20631964)
John Mikel Obi banned for three games for threats to referee

Chelsea's John Mikel Obi has been given a three-match ban and fined £60,000 by the Football Association for threatening referee Mark
Clattenburg.

Nigerian midfielder Mikel admitted an FA charge following an incident in the match official's changing room at the end of Chelsea's game against Manchester United on 28 October.

In a personal hearing on Thursday the FA's Independent Regulatory Commission accepted that the player had genuinely believed the referee had racially abused him.

"But for that factor the suspension would have been significantly longer," the FA said in a statement.

The FA has investigated the allegation against Clattenburg and found that there was no case for him to answer.