Defensive Shambles

[SMAXXA]

I wasnt at the game yesterday and just watched the highlights and we were a shambles for those goals, did we play like that all game? Keeper at fault for the first 2 and Hanlon out jumped for the second, needs to be convincing in his attacking the ball.

Dont get me wrong I have no real issues with the defeat just like I didnt against the dons as this will happen over the course of the season, however we do seem to be leaking goals for fun and look really weak at the back at times.

Its a shame as I thought we brought in players who would make us harder to beat but seems its the simple stuff we seem top let ourselves down on and very rarley have I seen a team open us up with a great move or out play us resulting in a gols, really frustrating.

[Piqué]

To be fair to Hanlon it wasn't all his fault for the third. McPake also completely lost his man who then had an easy finish.

[Bishop Hibee]

Neither keeping or defending was any good for goal 1, Williams to blame for goal 2 and the 2 centre halves at fault for goal 3. We should not be scoring 2 goals way from home and losing the game.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

First for County was more or less a goal as soon as it left the boot of the boy that took the corner. I am sure that most teams in the SPL would have conceded that. The other two goals were real shockers, but the boys involved will know that. We had enough of the second half and plenty chances to have put the game away. End point is that as much as we enjoy winning together, we have to lose together as well.

[SMAXXA]

First for County was more or less a goal as soon as it left the boot of the boy that took the corner. I am sure that most teams in the SPL would have conceded that. The other two goals were real shockers, but the boys involved will know that. We had enough of the second half and plenty chances to have put the game away. End point is that as much as we enjoy winning together, we have to lose together as well.

Absolutley agree and dont take this threads as a negative overall, as its not meant to be that. Just watching that brought back memories of the Aberdeen game with Hanlon getting out jumped and Mcpake not looking too clever either. I disagree with the point on the first goal, I think thats something the keeper should be coming out ant taking ever day of the week to be honest. Second was a nightmare aswellm, Williams could have taken the boy out ran the risk of a red or won the ball and took the boy to, he did neither. Dont get me wrong I think the finish was pretty forutnate and JM couldnt do anything about it but its the build up and positioning of the defenders that I see as the problem, mainly the centre halfs.

I think Hanlon has improved this season and I sang his praises early doors however I think he is creeping back into his old self. Mcpake who has admitted himself he has been "okay" at best also needs to improve a good bit IMO.

Again this is just my view on things but we seem to be leaking a hell of alot of goals and I dont think its the full backs that seem to be the issue.

[Ozyhibby]

What makes it most frustrating is that there is a real chance we could push for 2nd place this year.
We are still a soft touch for a goal and it's costing us dearly.
On a positive note, we are still scoring goals.

[SneakersO'Toole]

The defence is a worry. They are not clicking as a unit and a distinct lack of communication and concentration is causing us to lose stupid goals which are avoidable.

If we have aspirations to finish top 6 we need to be keeping clean sheets. We can't rely on scoring 2 goals or more to win games.

[Craig_in_Prague]

County needing a win, step forward Hibs.
Motherwell fired blanks, step forward Hibs.

[MB62]

That was very annoying to lose goals in the manner we lost them, all defensive errors rather than great play from the opposition. It was a bad day at the office for the defense but IMO, this is going to happen during the season.
PF is still rebuilding, probably always will be, as every manager is, but he has started from rock bottom and things are undoubtably better than they were. The thing is not to panic because we have had a bad result. Stuart McCall said before their game yesterday, outside the 'dodgers' and maybe Dundee, every team in the league that can put out their best first 11 is capable of beating any other team, things are that close.
We will continue to win and lose games throughout the season, as long as we keep applying ourselves as we have done so far, but we are a long way from being a good team capable of dominating games for long periods or going on a long unbeaten run. We are however, capable of being in the hunt at the top end at the end of the season, as most others are too.

[jodjam]

The defence is far stronger with Clancy in there. He wins more than his fair share of balls into our box and has played a huge part in our reasonable start to the season. Hope he's back for Friday.

[.Sean.]

Really poor from all involved. Williams, for all the excellent saves he makes, isn't the best decision maker out there and you fear when the opposition put a cross into the box. Schoolboy stuff.

[blackpoolhibs]

Our first 11 are good SPL standard, its when we are a couple of players short we drop quite a bit in quality imo.

We also have one or two playing on top of their games so far this season, and when we make mistakes at the back like we have recently, our goal scorers find it more difficult to score enough to address that.

We are on the right track though, i dont see another relegation battle this year. Perhaps with the right acquisitions in January we might battle at the other end for a change, and challenge for one of the european places?

[xyz23jc]

County needing a win, step forward Hibs.
Motherwell fired blanks, step forward Hibs.

:agree:

[PatHead]

:agree:

Jamie Murphy is going through a goal drought so slap your cash on him as first goalscorer.


(BTW still fancy Hibs for a decent result on Friday.)

[Hibees07]

I wasnt at the game yesterday and just watched the highlights and we were a shambles for those goals, did we play like that all game? Keeper at fault for the first 2 and Hanlon out jumped for the second, needs to be convincing in his attacking the ball.

Dont get me wrong I have no real issues with the defeat just like I didnt against the dons as this will happen over the course of the season, however we do seem to be leaking goals for fun and look really weak at the back at times.

Its a shame as I thought we brought in players who would make us harder to beat but seems its the simple stuff we seem top let ourselves down on and very rarley have I seen a team open us up with a great move or out play us resulting in a gols, really frustrating.



Paul Hanlon currently is not strong enough to play centre back in the SPL, no matter who the opposition are if they have a big centre forward he will always put himself alongside Hanlon.

After reading the comments made by Derek Adams regarding the weaknesses in the Hibs side you can bet your botton dollar that one of them was the physical contest with Hanlon.

Higdon will have a field day on Friday, he did nothing against Hearts as both centre backs are big physical players, when he plays on Friday he will immediately match up against Hanlon knowing that he will win the majority of high balls.

I have been very critical of Hanlon in the past, he has improved alongside McPake but he is still way short on the physical aspect of the game.

[PatHead]

Paul Hanlon currently is not strong enough to play centre back in the SPL, no matter who the opposition are if they have a big centre forward he will always put himself alongside Hanlon.

After reading the comments made by Derek Adams regarding the weaknesses in the Hibs side you can bet your botton dollar that one of them was the physical contest with Hanlon.

Higdon will have a field day on Friday, he did nothing against Hearts as both centre backs are big physical players, when he plays on Friday he will immediately match up against Hanlon knowing that he will win the majority of high balls.

I have been very critical of Hanlon in the past, he has improved alongside McPake but he is still way short on the physical aspect of the game.

Not only in the past. Looks like you are still having a go at him now. Who would you play instead?

What is there to stop McPake matching up with Higdon and leaving Hanlon to match up with their other forward?

[Hibs7]

County needing a win, step forward Hibs.
Motherwell fired blanks, step forward Hibs.

My thoughts exactly .......

[truehibernian]

County needing a win, step forward Hibs.
Motherwell fired blanks, step forward Hibs.

We will miss Deegan, and I'd have loved to have had his steel up against Lasley - that said I thought Motherwell's game yesterday exposed their current frailties - their full back area and midfield.

Hately was deployed defensively which kind of cost them at Tynecastle - he is very composed and offers more in midfield. I thought Hearts' wingers highlighted where 'Well are weak at present, so if the likes of Leigh, Cairney and Wotherspoon can exploit that then we may create a fair few chances.

What surprised me most was the time Hearts had in midfield without being pressed - which led to their goal. Throughout the game Lasley in particular looked like he had been not only tasked with shoring the middle of the park, but getting up to support Higdon - he noticably tired. They played a 4-3-3 but Murphy and Humphreys didn't defend. That left them very exposed in the middle of the pitch. Nicky Law was very very quiet which was unusual.

I'd go 4-4-2, allowing Leigh to float and occupy their backline. Would really love to see young Sam or Alex Harris get a start to be honest - our midfield is crying out for a midfielder who can really take a man on, take out a couple of players and be incisive. Harris for me, but I can easily see why Pat may be opposed to throwing him in just yet. I'd take a wee chance though to be honest.

[steviehibsleith]

Not only in the past. Looks like you are still having a go at him now. Who would you play instead?

What is there to stop McPake matching up with Higdon and leaving Hanlon to match up with their other forward?

If Clancy is back I would play Clancy Mcpake Mcgivern Maybury

I actually agree with Hibbes8 that Paul Hanlon isnt strong enough in the air or powerfull enough on the gound as a center half .. yet

In the SPL Center Half is a tough position too fill IMO most clubs rarely play young men here and stick with older wiser/tougher Guys A t the weekend virtually every CH i can see was 27yo upwards apart from Meekings at ICT. Scotland under 21s is nothing like the SPL so I never listen to that argument before it starts.

I do believe Hanlon will get there and is young just missing that toughness that older CH have.

[PatHead]

If Clancy is back I would play Clancy Mcpake Mcgivern Maybury

I actually agree with Hibbes8 that Paul Hanlon isnt strong enough in the air or powerfull enough on the gound as a center half .. yet

In the SPL Center Half is a tough position too fill IMO most clubs rarely play young men here and stick with older wiser/tougher Guys A t the weekend virtually every CH i can see was 27yo upwards apart from Meekings at ICT. Scotland under 21s is nothing like the SPL so I never listen to that argument before it starts.

I do believe Hanlon will get there and is young just missing that toughness that older CH have.

Not only Hibs that have a problem at CH, look at Scotland's choices just now. Sure Dundee Utd normally play with a young Centre back (Gunning?) but he was injured at the weekend and didn't play. Take your point though. The problem is though how would he get experience if he isn't playing?

With regard to Maybury I certainly wouldn't put him up against some of the speed merchants Motherwell have just now. He really struggled at the weekend and it was no co-incidence Ross County's best player was up against him.

Much as I like Claros we need someone stronger alongside him as him and Taiwo are too similar and don't really protect the back 4 which was (one of) the problem(s) we had for at least 2 seasons before this one.

Personally would go back to Clancy, Hanlon, McPake and McGivern just make sure McPake picks up Higdon and doesn't give him the room he was afforded last season.

[shagpile]

To be fair to Hanlon it wasn't all his fault for the third. McPake also completely lost his man who then had an easy finish.

McPake ,like the rest of us, probably expected Hanlon to win the header against Glen. When he didn't ,then Mcpake was a sitting duck.

The whole defence looked shaky all afternoon.

[Ozyhibby]

Bit of time spent in the Gym might help Hanlon as well as developing a bit of badness about him. Far too soft to be a top quality defender.
His technique with the ball is good though so he is half way there and it's a lot easier to bulk up than learn to play football.

[Hibees07]

Not only in the past. Looks like you are still having a go at him now. Who would you play instead?

What is there to stop McPake matching up with Higdon and leaving Hanlon to match up with their other forward?

Admitedly there is not a lot of choice however Clancy or McGivern may be worth a go.

It will be Higdon that picks up Hanlon which means McPake is the spare man. If McPake moves over Higdon will just move back to Hanlon causing even more confusion.

[PISTOL1875]

Really poor from all involved. Williams, for all the excellent saves he makes, isn't the best decision maker out there and you fear when the opposition put a cross into the box. Schoolboy stuff.

He's a great shot-stopper but when the crosses come in , he is found wanting the vast majority of the time.. Both Stack and Brown both had this problem.. Makes you wonder what they are being coached ???

[HibbyAndy]

He's a great shot-stopper but when the crosses come in , he is found wanting the vast majority of the time.. Both Stack and Brown both had this problem.. Makes you wonder what they are being coached ???



To be fair Pete, That is why he is playing for Hibs and not Barcelona..If he were really really good he would not be anywhere near Easter Road. I've been well chuffed with Williams this season.

[ancient hibee]

Although he's weak at crosses I think Williams is the best we've had for a while.On Saturday I didn't think he was responsible for any of the goals.The first he couldn't get at for defenders who were not actually defending but were marking each other.The second -the centre halves had gone walk about(how many goals to we have to lose from hoofs up the park before something is done?)Williams was the only Hibs player around-he did the best he could which was to try and put the guy off without touching him or the ball which was outside box while hoping reinforcements would arrive-they did -far too late.The third he was left totally exposed by a flick on from another aimless hoof up the middle.Something must be done about central defence-the goals against figures don't lie.

[blackpoolhibs]

He's a great shot-stopper but when the crosses come in , he is found wanting the vast majority of the time.. Both Stack and Brown both had this problem.. Makes you wonder what they are being coached ???

I blame Gordon Marshall, he should be sacked.

[Hibercelona]

We won't be finishing in the top six if we continue losing goals this season in the manner that we did there.

Whats the deal with Hibs and giving away the most softest possible goals out of probably every professional club in the world? :confused:

[LeighLoyal]

Deegan and Clancy might well have made a difference. How did Taiwo play anyway?

[berty_mee]

Bit of time spent in the Gym might help Hanlon as well as developing a bit of badness about him. Far too soft to be a top quality defender.
His technique with the ball is good though so he is half way there and it's a lot easier to bulk up than learn to play football.


Exactly it re. Hanlon. He's too nice, needs that it of dig about him because he is good enough on the deck. Loses his confidence as well too easily after making a mistake and shys away from it after that!!

Our productive start's not looking too great now, only 4pts between 3rd and 10th, it's gonae be one of those leagues this year, everyone taking points from one another. Still up there tho, massive game on Friday night

[truehibernian]

Bit bemused as to the criticism of Hanlon on Saturday - McPake had an absolute mare at the back, albeit he took his goal well. If anything Paul looked the more assured.

He lost a header, but James completely switched off his man and didn't anticipate the second ball. First goal Williams quite inexplicably came for a ball that was McPake's to win or usher back. Their second I think Doyle has his back to the second ball but to be fair it was a cracking corner whipped into the 6 yard box.

Paul Hanlon for me is not the weak link this year for the goals conceded. McPake and Maybury and to an extent Williams have all had telling contributions.

[Sir David Gray]

Our first 11 are good SPL standard, its when we are a couple of players short we drop quite a bit in quality imo.

We also have one or two playing on top of their games so far this season, and when we make mistakes at the back like we have recently, our goal scorers find it more difficult to score enough to address that.

We are on the right track though, i dont see another relegation battle this year. Perhaps with the right acquisitions in January we might battle at the other end for a change, and challenge for one of the european places?

Nail on the head as far as I'm concerned and it's something I've mentioned quite a bit recently.

We have assembled a solid and fairly reliable first XI that will be more than a match for most teams in the SPL this year. Unfortunately for us, our squad does not have enough quantity or quality about it to be able to cope with the loss of a couple of our first team regulars.

When the likes of Deegan and Clancy are missing at the same time, we are really going to struggle as the players we have in reserve are either not good enough or aren't experienced enough.

[Jonnyboy]

I blame Gordon Marshall, he should be sacked.

Or at the very least banjo'd by new signing Bob Malcolm :agree:

[PISTOL1875]

To be fair Pete, That is why he is playing for Hibs and not Barcelona..If he were really really good he would not be anywhere near Easter Road. I've been well chuffed with Williams this season.

Andy , you're spot on mate but if he can't come off his line from crosses then surely the management team MUST see this when he's on trial then yeh ???

I have been chuffed with Williams as well mate but I am praying that it's not going to be a matter of time before we go back to shipping goals left , right and centre from cross balls.. The amount of goals we lost whilst Stack was in goals was nothing more than shambolic..

[blackpoolhibs]

Andy , you're spot on mate but if he can't come off his line from crosses then surely the management team MUST see this when he's on trial then yeh ???

I have been chuffed with Williams as well mate but I am praying that it's not going to be a matter of time before we go back to shipping goals left , right and centre from cross balls.. The amount of goals we lost whilst Stack was in goals was nothing more than shambolic..

I'd say Williams has directly caused more goals against us since he arrived than Stack did in a whole season?

[PISTOL1875]

I'd say Williams has directly caused more goals against us since he arrived than Stack did in a whole season?

The amount of goals Stack cost us by not coming off his line must have been well in double figures.. It started in his very first game v Celtic at ER..

Williams is a total bombscare when it comes to crosses...

[blackpoolhibs]

The amount of goals Stack cost us by not coming off his line must have been well in double figures.. It started in his very first game v Celtic at ER..

Williams is a total bombscare when it comes to crosses...

Naw it wisnae, he was not the best at coming off his line but nowhere near as bad as you are making out.

[PISTOL1875]

Naw it wisnae, he was not the best at coming off his line but nowhere near as bad as you are making out.

He was honking mate , totally shocking.. It was like he had blue tac stuck to the bottom of his boots..

[SMAXXA]

Bit bemused as to the criticism of Hanlon on Saturday - McPake had an absolute mare at the back, albeit he took his goal well. If anything Paul looked the more assured.

He lost a header, but James completely switched off his man and didn't anticipate the second ball. First goal Williams quite inexplicably came for a ball that was McPake's to win or usher back. Their second I think Doyle has his back to the second ball but to be fair it was a cracking corner whipped into the 6 yard box.

Paul Hanlon for me is not the weak link this year for the goals conceded. McPake and Maybury and to an extent Williams have all had telling contributions.

I couldnt say as I wasnt at the game mate so just going of the highlights and from previous games ive seen. I agree JM has been ropey but so has PH, despite a good start to the season. Strangley enough when JM makes mistakes he generally attones for his errors i.e cup final and saturday. Unfortunatley enough our players are in keeping with how we will perform as a team this year, they and the team will have their ups and downs.

Its pretty frustrating and we dont reallyt have any other options other than Clancy at CB, for Hanlon I guess as JM wont be dropped as hes the captin IMO.

Ach we will get there, at least theres signs of progress we just need to stick with it will be a rollercoaster season I haver no doubt.

[blackpoolhibs]

He was honking mate , totally shocking.. It was like he had blue tac stuck to the bottom of his boots..

I disagree, he was a decent SPL keeper imo. Williams is on a par with him, maybe a better shot stopper but dodgy coming off his line. Stack seemed a better organiser, maybe Williams will improve?

[PISTOL1875]

I disagree, he was a decent SPL keeper imo. Williams is on a par with him, maybe a better shot stopper but dodgy coming off his line. Stack seemed a better organiser, maybe Williams will improve?

Williams is gonna have to improve pal.. Once teams get wind of his weakness , they will do everything they can to exploit it..

[blackpoolhibs]

Williams is gonna have to improve pal.. Once teams get wind of his weakness , they will do everything they can to exploit it..

He will have to work on coming off his line, but he's a decent SPL keeper like Stack was. If he could come and take crosses he'd be at a top club imo.

Every player we bring in will have strengths and weaknesses, its all about getting the blend right.

[PISTOL1875]

He will have to work on coming off his line, but he's a decent SPL keeper like Stack was. If he could come and take crosses he'd be at a top club imo.

Every player we bring in will have strengths and weaknesses, its all about getting the blend right.

He's came from his line a few times this season and been nowhere the ball the vast majority of them..