Tiger Woods - Good Sport or Selfish Bassa?

[MB62]

I noticed in the Ryder cup thread a couple of posters praising Woods for conceding the last putt to Molinari and I was as surprised as these comments as I was at Woods for the concession.

Whilst delighted at Europe winning the Ryder Cup, to paraphrase our American friends, it was AWESOME stuff, I can't believe Woods never asked Molinari to hole out. It looked to me that Woods took the opinion that because he missed his own putt, he was no longer interested in anything else that could happen and he just threw in the towel.
With the game standing tied at 14-14 at least the Americans had not lost the cup on their own soil and Molinari had a very missable putt to avoid that situation changing. If I had been an American player who toiled under extreme pressure for three days to try and win the trophy, only to lose it because Woods looked liked, IMO, he had taken the huff at missing his own putt, I would have been looking for him in the locker room after to give him a piece of my mind (or more likely forehead right on his nose)

So question is

Was he a gentleman at conceding the putt?
or was he selfish bassa who never gave his team mates and country any consideration?

[Mon Dieu4]

My first thought was he didn't want to give him the satisfaction of putting it so that he holed it to win it outright

[Golden Bear]

By that stage of the proceedings the 'baw was burst as far as the USA team was concerned as Europe had already accumulated enough points to retain the trophy.

The result of Tiger's game with Molinari was incidental but I still think that he was trying like a bear to hole his own putt and when he missed it the concession to Molinari was born out of exasperation more than anything else.

At least that's the impression I got from his body language at the time.

[Scouse Hibee]

I noticed in the Ryder cup thread a couple of posters praising Woods for conceding the last putt to Molinari and I was as surprised as these comments as I was at Woods for the concession.

Whilst delighted at Europe winning the Ryder Cup, to paraphrase our American friends, it was AWESOME stuff, I can't believe Woods never asked Molinari to hole out. It looked to me that Woods took the opinion that because he missed his own putt, he was no longer interested in anything else that could happen and he just threw in the towel.
With the game standing tied at 14-14 at least the Americans had not lost the cup on their own soil and Molinari had a very missable putt to avoid that situation changing. If I had been an American player who toiled under extreme pressure for three days to try and win the trophy, only to lose it because Woods looked liked, IMO, he had taken the huff at missing his own putt, I would have been looking for him in the locker room after to give him a piece of my mind (or more likely forehead right on his nose)

So question is

Was he a gentleman at conceding the putt?
or was he selfish bassa who never gave his team mates and country any consideration?

After losing the commanding lead they had, and given the fact that even a draw meant they had "lost" I really don't think any of the American team would have been able to take any satisfaction from a draw and therefore wouldn't really give a toss afterwards. So I'll call him a gentleman

[MB62]

After losing the commanding lead they had, and given the fact that even a draw meant they had "lost" I really don't think any of the American team would have been able to take any satisfaction from a draw and therefore wouldn't really give a toss afterwards. So I'll call him a gentleman

So in the greatest team rivalry in the game of golf, you would rather lose than draw? :confused:
If that was the attitude then Woods should have just conceded the hole on the fairway and walked in as it was all over before they played their 2nd shots.

[Scouse Hibee]

So in the greatest team rivalry in the game of golf, you would rather lose than draw? :confused:
If that was the attitude then Woods should have just conceded the hole on the fairway and walked in as it was all over before they played their 2nd shots.


Why the confused Smiley? You talk about losing and drawing as if they had different outcomes, they didn't! You know as well as I do the only prize on offer was the Ryder Cup, a draw and loss were both the same to the Americans. If it had been a draw meaning Europe retained the cup would that have consoled the Americans.............I think not!

And to answer your question I would just like to be able to hit the ****** ball :greengrin

[MB62]

Why the confused Smiley? You talk about losing and drawing as if they had different outcomes, they didn't! You know as well as I do the only prize on offer was the Ryder Cup, a draw and loss were both the same to the Americans. If it had been a draw meaning Europe retained the cup would that have consoled the Americans.............I think not!

And to answer your question I would just like to be able to hit the ****** ball :greengrin

Dustin Johnson seems to agree with you, publicly at least, as he said he was pleased that Tiger conceded the putt. Then again, he contradicted himself a bit by saying he thought both players should have conceded whilst they were on the fairway waiting to play their 2nd shots.
Personally, I cannot understand why anyone would rather lose than draw. History would have shown this to be a tied game (if Molinari had missed, he may have holed the putt) rather than a European win on American soil. It has to be in the ethics of sport that you try your best at all times to achieve the best result possible. Did somebody not get in to both in paralympics for not trying to win? or was it in the badminton or something?

[Pretty Boy]

Seems to me the question is only being asked because It's Tiger Woods. Jack Nicklaus done something similar in 1969 v Tony Jacklin and It's widely talked about as a great act of sportsmanship.

[Hibbyradge]

Dustin Johnson seems to agree with you, publicly at least, as he said he was pleased that Tiger conceded the putt. Then again, he contracted himself a bit by saying he thought both players should have conceded whilst they were on the fairway waiting to play their 2nd shots.
Personally, I cannot understand why anyone would rather lose than draw. History would have shown this to be a tied game (if Molinari had missed, he may have holed the putt) rather than a European win on American soil. It has to be in the ethics of sport that you try your best at all times to achieve the best result possible. Did somebody not get in to both in paralympics for not trying to win? or was it in the badminton or something?

I don't think that's a like for like comparison, Mike.

The badminton players were both trying to lose in order to gain an advantage in the next round. There was no advantage to the USA, and anyway, Europe were, in effect, only trying to draw from the outset.

Woods had missed his putt, partly because his head would have been mince. Molinari's putt was inside the one he had just missed and everyone would have expected to make it, particularly as there was absolutely no pressure on him to do so. He probably could have knocked it in one handed and with his eyes shut because Europe had already achieved their goal.

Woods was in a mess mentally. His team had their hands on the Ryder Cup, only a matter of an hour earlier, but had somehow contrived to lose a commanding lead.

The crowd was going bonkers.

Drawing 14 each had exactly the same effect as losing for Team USA.

Loads of reasons to get it over with.

Also, in terms of golf etiquette, Woods return putt was about the same distance as Molinari's. Once that had been conceded, it would have been very poor sportsmanship for him not to return the favour.

A better analogy might be when Hibs (Mowbray?) and Rangers played out a 1 - 0 loss because although that meant Rangers won the league, we couldn't do so, but the result meant we qualified for the UEFA Cup.

[Hibbyradge]

Seems to me the question is only being asked because It's Tiger Woods. Jack Nicklaus done something similar in 1969 v Tony Jacklin and It's widely talked about as a great act of sportsmanship.

That was different though.

On that occasion, the putt was conceded by the player who had just retained the Cup.

[MB62]

I don't think that's a like for like comparison, Mike.

The badminton players were both trying to lose in order to gain an advantage in the next round. There was no advantage to the USA, and anyway, Europe were, in effect, only trying to draw from the outset.

Woods had missed his putt, partly because his head would have been mince. Molinari's putt was inside the one he had just missed and everyone would have expected to make it, particularly as there was absolutely no pressure on him to do so. He probably could have knocked it in one handed and with his eyes shut because Europe had already achieved their goal.

Woods was in a mess mentally. His team had their hands on the Ryder Cup, only a matter of an hour earlier, but had somehow contrived to lose a commanding lead.

The crowd was going bonkers.

Drawing 14 each had exactly the same effect as losing for Team USA.

Loads of reasons to get it over with.

Also, in terms of golf etiquette, Woods return putt was about the same distance as Molinari's. Once that had been conceded, it would have been very poor sportsmanship for him not to return the favour.

A better analogy might be when Hibs (Mowbray?) and Rangers played out a 1 - 0 loss because although that meant Rangers won the league, we couldn't do so, but the result meant we qualified for the UEFA Cup.

And I hated that decision too, accepting defeat against that lot, regardless of the eventual 'prize'. I was raging at events that day and will never forgive Mowbray for that day. I know the arguements for it, and it's up to the individuals to accept or otherwise what we did, but I cannot accept it. Don't forget, it only took them to break up the park and score and Aberdeen to do the same at Pittodrie and we were out, whereas a draw with us meant the Dons score was irrelevant.

Anyway, off the subject and maybe it is because it is Woods, but he cannot be talked about in the same context as the might Golden Bear when it comes to being a gentleman on and off the course. The Bear conceded that putt to Jacklin to restore peace in our time on the golf course.

[Golden Bear]

I don't think that's a like for like comparison, Mike.

The badminton players were both trying to lose in order to gain an advantage in the next round. There was no advantage to the USA, and anyway, Europe were, in effect, only trying to draw from the outset.

Woods had missed his putt, partly because his head would have been mince. Molinari's putt was inside the one he had just missed and everyone would have expected to make it, particularly as there was absolutely no pressure on him to do so. He probably could have knocked it in one handed and with his eyes shut because Europe had already achieved their goal.

Woods was in a mess mentally. His team had their hands on the Ryder Cup, only a matter of an hour earlier, but had somehow contrived to lose a commanding lead.

The crowd was going bonkers.

Drawing 14 each had exactly the same effect as losing for Team USA.

Loads of reasons to get it over with.

Also, in terms of golf etiquette, Woods return putt was about the same distance as Molinari's. Once that had been conceded, it would have been very poor sportsmanship for him not to return the favour.

A better analogy might be when Hibs (Mowbray?) and Rangers played out a 1 - 0 loss because although that meant Rangers won the league, we couldn't do so, but the result meant we qualified for the UEFA Cup.

And I hated that decision too, accepting defeat against that lot, regardless of the eventual 'prize'. I was raging at events that day and will never forgive Mowbray for that day. I know the arguements for it, and it's up to the individuals to accept or otherwise what we did, but I cannot accept it. Don't forget, it only took them to break up the park and score and Aberdeen to do the same at Pittodrie and we were out, whereas a draw with us meant the Dons score was irrelevant.

Anyway, off the subject and maybe it is because it is Woods, but he cannot be talked about in the same context as the might Golden Bear when it comes to being a gentleman on and off the course. The Bear conceded that putt to Jacklin to restore peace in our time on the golf course.


:agree:

'Mon the Golden Bear.

:wink:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'm sure anybody that backed the draw wouldnae have been overly impressed with Tiger.

[MB62]

I'm sure anybody that backed the draw wouldnae have been overly impressed with Tiger.

Nor my mate who had a grand total of £3,500 on the Ryder Cup, mostly for the USA to win but in other bets he had Tiger to beat Molinari. Can't say I am worried about him losing his bets though, especially as one of his other bets was Paul Lawrie to get beat :greengrin

[southfieldhibby]

Whatever people think about Tiger as a person, I reckon he deserves the benefit of doubt, so a great sporting gesture for me.

[Hibbyradge]

Whatever people think about Tiger as a person, I reckon he deserves the benefit of doubt, so a great sporting gesture for me.

It would have been a great sporting gesture had he given Molinari the putt BEFORE he missed the one to win the match and conceded the half point.

Also, great sporting gestures are usually accompanied by a smile.

[MB62]

It would have been a great sporting gesture had he given Molinari the putt BEFORE he missed the one to win the match and conceded the half point.

Also, great sporting gestures are usually accompanied by a smile.

:agree: :top marks

[JimBHibees]

I would have been well hacked off if I was his team mate. No other player was giving putts that short on Sunday so why should Tiger. Seemed to me like the act of a petulant kid who probably thought he was being snubbed by being put out last when the US were so far ahead.

[IWasThere2016]

He was pig sick, and he is not a team player. Besides, it was incidental as the Yanks had failed big time :faf:

Allowed a few I know to cash in at the bookies though :greengrin