View Full Version : Regional European League
Bishop Hibee
30-09-2012, 03:27 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19685823
Personally I'm not in favour of this but I think this proposed league or something like it is an inevitability as clubs increasingly see themselves as businesses looking to maximise income.
I'd want Hibs to be at the party so to speak as the thought of the 4 Scottish clubs who seem to be part of this 'European Clubs Association' playing at a higher level than us would be unacceptable.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19685823
Personally I'm not in favour of this but I think this proposed league or something like it is an inevitability as clubs increasingly see themselves as businesses looking to maximise income.
I'd want Hibs to be at the party so to speak as the thought of the 4 Scottish clubs who seem to be part of this 'European Clubs Association' playing at a higher level than us would be unacceptable.
Wouldnt be in favour of the league idea but British Cup idea has always appealed to me. Some great away days potentially and cross border ties always generate alot of interest.
hfc rd
30-09-2012, 03:33 PM
Wouldnt be in favour of the league idea but British Cup idea has always appealed to me. Some great away days potentially and cross border ties always generate alot of interest.
I would like to see a British cup as well but I think the English FA are not in favour of this, so kind of rules it out for the time being.
What is the criteria for membership of the European Club Association? Seem to remember it was something to do with Stadium specifications, in which case no-one from the ECA has ever inspected the asbestos ridden antique that is the Porcine-o-drome.
jacomo
30-09-2012, 03:50 PM
What is the criteria for membership of the European Club Association? Seem to remember it was something to do with Stadium specifications, in which case no-one from the ECA has ever inspected the asbestos ridden antique that is the Porcine-o-drome.
Unless they work out the promotion/relegation issues this should be a non-starter.
Bishop Hibee
30-09-2012, 03:55 PM
What is the criteria for membership of the European Club Association? Seem to remember it was something to do with Stadium specifications, in which case no-one from the ECA has ever inspected the asbestos ridden antique that is the Porcine-o-drome.
The website is http://www.ecaeurope.com There are two kinds of membership, Ordinary Membership which Celtc and Sevco have and Associated Membership which the sheep and the yams have. Given the state of Sevco and the Yams regarding finance it's questionable if they will be allowed to renew their memberships given the state they are in. Details of how clubs are members are on the site.
The website is http://www.ecaeurope.com There are two kinds of membership, Ordinary Membership which Celtc and Sevco have and Associated Membership which the sheep and the yams have. Given the state of Sevco and the Yams regarding finance it's questionable if they will be allowed to renew their memberships given the state they are in. Details of how clubs are members are on the site.
Cheers.
JohnStephens91
30-09-2012, 04:08 PM
Terrible idea and will cheat the fans out of being able to see their team playing away from home. Imagine if Hibs were members and got drawn out away to the team from Kazakhstan? How many fans would venture out there, not very many. Detrimental to the sport from the fans point of view. Also does this idea not already run in the form of the Champions League or the Europa League where teams from other countries play against each other? Complete non-starter for me and it will inevitably end in tears for the fans, just like the TV deal has.
LancsHibs
30-09-2012, 04:22 PM
Why are Hibs not part of this association? Hibs are pioneers in Europe and should be at the forefront of any new developments with the club positioned to take advantage and explore any new ideas or competitions! We should at least be in a position to be involved in any discussions as we may find ourselves very quickly isolated and left behind if things begin to develop. Not to at least be 'in the loop' is complete mismanagement on our behalf bordering on neglect by the clubs senior management when our main competitors are involved in it!!!! Get it sorted...
Terrible idea and will cheat the fans out of being able to see their team playing away from home. Imagine if Hibs were members and got drawn out away to the team from Kazakhstan? How many fans would venture out there, not very many. Detrimental to the sport from the fans point of view. Also does this idea not already run in the form of the Champions League or the Europa League where teams from other countries play against each other? Complete non-starter for me and it will inevitably end in tears for the fans, just like the TV deal has.
I doubt any club from Scotland would be asked to play in Kazakhstan, hence the word "regional".
Pretty Boy
30-09-2012, 04:35 PM
With Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts out the way we'd compete with Dundee Utd every year for the league. Bring it on.
JohnStephens91
30-09-2012, 04:39 PM
I doubt any club from Scotland would be asked to play in Kazakhstan, hence the word "regional".
Regardless of where clubs play it will still be too expensive to fly every other weekend to a city in northern Europe
LancsHibs
30-09-2012, 04:55 PM
Regardless of where clubs play it will still be too expensive to fly every other weekend to a city in northern Europe
Depends how much €€ the league generated and divvied up amongst the participating clubs. Any clubs participating in any regional European 'super league' would be getting a lot more than in the SPL at present.
Regardless of where clubs play it will still be too expensive to fly every other weekend to a city in northern Europe
You have a point there.
jgl07
30-09-2012, 05:39 PM
Terrible idea and will cheat the fans out of being able to see their team playing away from home. Imagine if Hibs were members and got drawn out away to the team from Kazakhstan? How many fans would venture out there, not very many. Detrimental to the sport from the fans point of view. Also does this idea not already run in the form of the Champions League or the Europa League where teams from other countries play against each other? Complete non-starter for me and it will inevitably end in tears for the fans, just like the TV deal has.
The clue is in the term Regional. No-one could conceive of a European Region including Scotland and Kazakhstan.
The concern was that teams outside the big four Leagues were becoming marginalized because they would not have the domestic TV revenue.
I can't really see how this could work. There was an idea for the Atlantic (Fishfinger) League ten years back involving teams from Portugal, Holland, Belgium, Scotland etc. This was clearly a non-starter.
I can see how a Scandinavian League would work and also a Dutch, Belgian and Luxembourg League might operate.
For Scotland, I suppose the logical grouping would be with Wales and Ireland (North and South). Just what gains might be expected I cannot envisage.
Overall the only teams in Scotland who might conceivably benefit would be Rangers and Celtic. You can be sure that both would want to enter a team in the Scottish League as well. Hearts probably think that there would be something in it for them but they are totally deluded.
The idea needs to be kicked into the long grass.
Mikey
30-09-2012, 05:46 PM
The best answer for Scotland would be a UK league, but England don't need any Scottish teams and there would be pressure to lose the national team.
Personally I would sacrifice the national team for that.
SteveHFC
30-09-2012, 05:49 PM
The best answer for Scotland would be a UK league, but England don't need any Scottish teams and there would be pressure to lose the national team.
Personally I would sacrifice the national team for that.
UK League - No Thanks.
If that happens then you can kiss goodbye to getting to another cup final or getting into europe :aok:
Mikey
30-09-2012, 05:59 PM
UK League - No Thanks.
If that happens then you can kiss goodbye to getting to another cup final or getting into europe :aok:
What's the population of......
Bolton
Wigan
Norwich
Wolverhampton
Blackburn
Swansea
Stoke
Sunderland
Reading
Southampton
?
Ozyhibby
30-09-2012, 06:13 PM
A set up like this is inevitable eventually. The top 5 leagues in Europe have pulled so far in front of the rest of Europe that some leagues are becoming uneconomical.
Personally I am in favour as I only attend home games these days.
A 20 team league involving the top teams from Scotland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Iceland would certainly be more attractive to tv companies than the SPL which would allow us to bring in a higher standard of player.
It's annoying that the people of Wigan get to watch a higher standard of football than the people of Edinburgh.
Ryan69
30-09-2012, 06:27 PM
how can Rangers be part of this membership....Rangers I thought no longer existed as couldnt pay their bills?
No doubt it one of these were Rangers for that....but were sevco when it comes to finances.
Surely the Rangers share should be sold to whoever wants it?
jgl07
30-09-2012, 08:28 PM
The best answer for Scotland would be a UK league, but England don't need any Scottish teams and there would be pressure to lose the national team.
Personally I would sacrifice the national team for that.
If UEFA set up Regional Leagues (as opposed to National Leagues) there could be no argument about losing the Scottish National team if the League structure was expanded to include Scotland (as well as de facto including Wales). There are enough exceptions to this anyway. Monaco, FC Vaduz, Berwick, as well as Swansea, Cardiff, Wexham, etc.
The problem is that the English teams probably would ot want it. The EPL certainly do not want Rangers and Celtic. I doubt if there would be objectsions to the likes of Hibs and Hearts joining the Football League although they would not be too enthusiastic about the extra travelling especially to Aberdeen and Inverness.
lucky
30-09-2012, 08:47 PM
Rather have a UK league but the English don't need or want us. They might take the ugly sisters because of their following but Hibs, Hearts and Sheep are on a par with Bradford when comes to size of support. A new north Europe might work but again its all about TV.
VickMackie
01-10-2012, 03:41 PM
The article states Scotland's top clubs and they have a picture of Celtic and a team that no longer exist.
Phil D. Rolls
01-10-2012, 04:50 PM
Terrible idea and will cheat the fans out of being able to see their team playing away from home. Imagine if Hibs were members and got drawn out away to the team from Kazakhstan? How many fans would venture out there, not very many. Detrimental to the sport from the fans point of view. Also does this idea not already run in the form of the Champions League or the Europa League where teams from other countries play against each other? Complete non-starter for me and it will inevitably end in tears for the fans, just like the TV deal has.
Very much the model in American pro sports though, and - up until the 60s - one that worked OK in this country.
As it is at the moment, costs are keeping many people away from travelling anyway. Be nice to have the odd away trip say to Holland, kind of like they did in the old days if their team was drawn away in the cup. The world changes, and entertainment has to adapt to it.
hibs0666
01-10-2012, 05:17 PM
A set up like this is inevitable eventually. The top 5 leagues in Europe have pulled so far in front of the rest of Europe that some leagues are becoming uneconomical.
Personally I am in favour as I only attend home games these days.
A 20 team league involving the top teams from Scotland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Iceland would certainly be more attractive to tv companies than the SPL which would allow us to bring in a higher standard of player.
It's annoying that the people of Wigan get to watch a higher standard of football than the people of Edinburgh.
I don't think it is inevitable at all. The empty seats at most Europa League games is ampole demonstration of a lack of demand for super-regional football.
NAE NOOKIE
01-10-2012, 06:18 PM
Scotlands geographical location makes participation in any European regional league a bit difficult. If it was as part of a Scandinavian set up clubs would have to fly to away games ... 18 flights per season would be a huge financial burden and it would be interesting to see if such a set up would generate enough income to make it worthwhile. Especially when you take into account the lack of away supporters.
We should be looking at some sort of set up where we investigate the possibility of a joint league with invited Irish clubs. By that I mean a bit of market research to find out if Irish fans would come out in reasonable numbers to support their clubs in a joint set up and if TV would be interested.
Dublin is bigger than Glasgow, Cork is about as big as Aberdeen and Limerick is a bit smaller than Dundee Belfast is about the size of Edinburgh and Londonderry is about the size of Dundee.
2 clubs from Dublin and one each from Cork, Belfast, Londonderry and Limerick gives you six clubs. Unfortunately filtering out the sectarian crap would make the whole thing a non starter .... sigh!!!
The other alternative could be a British cup to replace the current League cups, with the bigger clubs coming into the competition at the later stages .... Dont think the English are that bothered for such a move though.
Ozyhibby
01-10-2012, 07:57 PM
There isn't a club in the whole of Ireland that get as high attendances as Dunfermline. It's hard to see what they could bring to the table. As far as Tv goes you are only adding an extra 4m people to the Market. It is nowhere near enough to make a difference.
To make a difference it would have to involve some countries of a decent size and an interest in football. The Scandinavian countries fit the bill.
As for away fans, less than 10% of fans bother with them anyway.
Ozyhibby
01-10-2012, 08:10 PM
Just had a quick look online and there are about 15 clubs in those countries with average crowds of 10k or over. We have another 5. A twenty team league would be attractive to broadcasters and sponsors. The international dimension would appeal to big companies.
A new league may result in higher attendances for all the clubs taking part.
It would still be nowhere near the level of the EPL but the quality would be a lot better than we are currently watching.
Jonnyboy
01-10-2012, 08:53 PM
What's the population of......
Bolton 139,000
Wigan 86,000
Norwich 171,000
Wolverhampton 258,000
Blackburn 106,000
Swansea 171,000
Stoke 266,000
Sunderland 183,000
Reading 213,000
Southampton 210,000
?
All figures are rounded and are taken from here ............ http://www.citypopulation.de/UK-Cities.html
Incidentally, Edinburgh is quoted as 400,000 so clearly all us Hibbies must live in the outlying areas :greengrin
Ozyhibby
10-10-2012, 08:33 PM
Uefa have just given permission for the creation of a Balkan league beginning in 2015.
I expect to see leagues merging all over the place now.
Sparky9
10-10-2012, 09:00 PM
With Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts out the way we'd compete with Dundee Utd every year for the league. Bring it on.
Rangers are only in it to get out of division 3 faster. We will have to compete for the league with motherwell aswell as they are currently one of the best clubs in scotland.
I think this year we may be title contenders:agree: Or at least runners up, 3rd would be a great aswell:greengrin
GGTTH
nonshinyfinish
10-10-2012, 09:19 PM
Uefa have just given permission for the creation of a Balkan league beginning in 2015.
I expect to see leagues merging all over the place now.
Really? I think the Balkans is a bit different...presumably they are recreating what was the old Yugoslav league. Jonathan Wilson talks about this idea in his book about Eastern European football (written in 2005ish I think) - the problem being that interest is dwindling in each of the new Balkan states' respective leagues because they are dominated by a couple of teams, whereas in the former Yugoslavia you had Red Star/Partizan Belgrade, Dinamo Zagreb, Hadjuk Split, etc. all fighting it out.
IMO it is logistically easier and more likely to get the relevant backing if you are rebuilding a league that used to exist rather than arbitrarily sticking two or more separate countries' leagues together. Obviously there are additional complications when the region in question has as bloody a recent history as the Balkans, but apparently they've had an equivalent Balkan basketball league for more than 10 years now.
jgl07
10-10-2012, 09:31 PM
Really? I think the Balkans is a bit different...presumably they are recreating what was the old Yugoslav league. Jonathan Wilson talks about this idea in his book about Eastern European football (written in 2005ish I think) - the problem being that interest is dwindling in each of the new Balkan states' respective leagues because they are dominated by a couple of teams, whereas in the former Yugoslavia you had Red Star/Partizan Belgrade, Dinamo Zagreb, Hadjuk Split, etc. all fighting it out.
IMO it is logistically easier and more likely to get the relevant backing if you are rebuilding a league that used to exist rather than arbitrarily sticking two or more separate countries' leagues together. Obviously there are additional complications when the region in question has as bloody a recent history as the Balkans, but apparently they've had an equivalent Balkan basketball league for more than 10 years now.
Another obvious merger would be the three Baltic Republics: Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia. A merger involving Belgium and Holland (and Luxembourg?) would make sense. Most of all the four Nordic Leagues: Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland.
The most obvious of all is to merge the Irish League with the League of Ireland. Not likely to happen.
The more radical options: England merging with Scotland, Spain with Portugal, Germany with Austria, Russia with Ukraine and Belarus will have to wait awhile
Phil MaGlass
11-10-2012, 02:03 PM
Another obvious merger would be the three Baltic Republics: Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia. A merger involving Belgium and Holland (and Luxembourg?) would make sense. Most of all the four Nordic Leagues: Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland.
The most obvious of all is to merge the Irish League with the League of Ireland. Not likely to happen.
The more radical options: England merging with Scotland, Spain with Portugal, Germany with Austria, Russia with Ukraine and Belarus will have to wait awhile
They are already talking about Holland and Belgium merging.
Oh aye and I would hope that they take the top four clubs in the league not just teams that happen to be campaigning for it. The Rangers and hertz are not top four.
Ozyhibby
12-10-2012, 01:16 PM
http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/box-seat-or-back-seat-scottish-footballs-staging-post/
Interesting article about league reconstruction.
jgl07
12-10-2012, 02:20 PM
Oh aye and I would hope that they take the top four clubs in the league not just teams that happen to be campaigning for it. The Rangers and hertz are not top four.
Rangers are in the top-four of Division Three and Hearts are in the top-four of the bottom-six of the SPL!
I can't see a 'pick and mix' League as the proposed Atlantic League ever taking off. It would increase costs without any guarantee of higher attendances or TV revenue.
What I can see is a number of mergers of neighbouring Leagues - Balkans, Baltic Republics, Benelux, Scandinavia. Maybe (but less likely) England/Scotland, Spain/Portugal, Ireland North and South.
I can't really see much benefit to the EPL is getting two or three Scottish teams (especially if two of them were Celtic and Sevco). I can't see much to gain for the Spanish League in admitting Porto, Benfica, and Sporting.
I can see the advantages to the likes of Ajax, PSV, and Feyenoord playing in a league including Anderlecht, Club Bruges, and Standard Liège.
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