Hillsborough Report

[kennyh]

I was there and couldnt hear exactly what the Man U fans were singing during the game, I saw it on Sky Sports this morning and realise it was "wheres your famous Munich song" as they were obviously trying to get a reaction from Liverpool fans and thankfully during the game they never.

A handful of LFC fans let the club down after the game which is a shame and its a pity that what looked like the majority of the Man U fans were singing that song trying to provoke Liverpool fans. They have plenty to sing about so why revert to that crap.


JUSTICE
The TRUTH

What a display in a very emotional day.

[lapsedhibee]

So you think that "fans" singing songs and glorifying the death and tragedies that have occurred are no worse than fans who shout at football players because of a poor performance?

Have a word.

The word I would have about that is that the difference between one fan at ER screaming abuse at his own players and a whole group of fans at Anfield screaming/chanting abuse at another group of fans is not worth having an opinion about. They’re both too trivial to make it worthwhile spending time deciding whether one is, as you put it, “worse” than the other.

Whether Hitler was “worse” than Bernard Manning would be worth having an opinion about (I think he was); whether murder is a worse crime than rape (I think it is); etc. But all this competitive moral outrage on hibs.net about offensive fitba chants is soooo much hot air. Imo it consists mostly of ‘look at me and how much better my manners are than yours’. You might as well get outraged at which direction port is passed round the table.

[McHibby]

Kelvin McKenzie thinks HE'S entitled to an apology.

You couldn't make it up!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-19727779

[Hibercelona]

So he wants an apology for being found out to be a complete and utter liar?

You really couldn't make it up! :bitchy:

He needs a brick to the face.

[steakbake]

Well, you could make it up, as long as when the lie was exposed, you blamed someone else for forcing you to make it up in the first place.

Keep up.

[jdships]

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
And I'm not sure about the universe.

Albert Einstein

Comes to mind :rolleyes:

[givescotlandfreedom]

He is the Sun personified.

[green glory]

Kelvin Mackenzie is a *****ing ***** and deserves all manner of misfortune.

[Scouse Hibee]

FFS he just can't leave it can he!

[Northernhibee]

**** off you hypocritical worthless stupid arrogant deceitful faecetious disgusting lying ****bag.

[Stevie Reid]

I said on the Hillsborough thread from two weeks ago that although he deserves much, much worse, the best thing to do with MacKenzie would be to ignore him, he would hate that. I think that this is proof of his endless attention seeking - there is obviously nothing that he will not say to get himself noticed, and would clearly rather be abused than ignored.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Deep down, it seems obvious that this sort lacks any core values or even reasoned opinion and routinely his answers to questions are not fundamentally what he believes, but more what he believes will generate more attention. Almost like a walking newspaper or a sad pastiche of a right wing hack.

[Saorsa]

Kelvin Mackenzie is a *****ing ***** and deserves all manner of misfortune.and then some.

absolute ****bag

[Northernhibee]

Tell you what Kelvin.

First of all you go around to every single person who was in the crowd that day and offer a face to face grovelling apology and mean it. If they don't want to speak to you that doesn't count. You grovel, you beg and do whatever you need to do to get to the point where they'd listen to an apology from you.

Then you go to every single family member and offer a face to face grovelling apology and mean it. If they don't want to speak to you that doesn't count. You grovel, you beg and do whatever you need to do to get to the point where they'd listen to an apology from you.

Then you go to every single fan of the sport who was disgusted by your action and offer a face to face grovelling apology and mean it. Same rules.

You then; on the front page of the Sun; get "I LIED" published and reveal every single reason that you printed that front page headline.

Then we can think about your apology.

****ing prick.

[Hibercelona]

Tell you what Kelvin.

First of all you go around to every single person who was in the crowd that day and offer a face to face grovelling apology and mean it. If they don't want to speak to you that doesn't count. You grovel, you beg and do whatever you need to do to get to the point where they'd listen to an apology from you.

Then you go to every single family member and offer a face to face grovelling apology and mean it. If they don't want to speak to you that doesn't count. You grovel, you beg and do whatever you need to do to get to the point where they'd listen to an apology from you.

Then you go to every single fan of the sport who was disgusted by your action and offer a face to face grovelling apology and mean it. Same rules.

You then; on the front page of the Sun; get "I LIED" published and reveal every single reason that you printed that front page headline.

Then we can think about your apology.

****ing prick.

:agree:

.

[JimBHibees]

Well wadaya know?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ios-hillsborough-exclusive-revealed--the-critical-role-of-jack-straw-8165990.html

Jack Straw is a ****ing disgrace!

Couldnt agree more. Read this on the Hillsborough Family support group site.

"May 1997: Home Secretary Jack Straw ordered Lord Justice Stuart-Smith to scrutinise all the evidence, but such a ‘scrutiny’ affords no legal representation or procedure. He evidently had pre-conceived ideas of the disaster as on 06/10/97, when visiting families at the Maritime Museum, he asked one bereaved father, “Have you got a few of your people or are they like the Liverpool fans, turn up at the last minute?”

It later emerged that a draft of the report was apparently circulated in advance to parties who were likely to be criticised. It seems they were allowed to comment on the draft before it went to print. The final report shows little criticism of SYP and their solicitors. Stuart-Smith’s draft shows his original concern that witness statements had been altered to edit out any comments that were adverse to SYP, but comments adverse to the fans were left in. This concern wasn’t mentioned in his final report, just “it would’ve been better? had the deletions not occurred.

Jack Straw accepted the findings, stating that there were no grounds to order a fresh inquiry".

Shameful. :rolleyes:

[dangermouse]

Tell you what Kelvin.

First of all you go around to every single person who was in the crowd that day and offer a face to face grovelling apology and mean it. If they don't want to speak to you that doesn't count. You grovel, you beg and do whatever you need to do to get to the point where they'd listen to an apology from you.

Then you go to every single family member and offer a face to face grovelling apology and mean it. If they don't want to speak to you that doesn't count. You grovel, you beg and do whatever you need to do to get to the point where they'd listen to an apology from you.

Then you go to every single fan of the sport who was disgusted by your action and offer a face to face grovelling apology and mean it. Same rules.

You then; on the front page of the Sun; get "I LIED" published and reveal every single reason that you printed that front page headline.

Then we can think about your apology.

****ing prick.

Why let him off so lightly.

[Scouse Hibee]

The word I would have about that is that the difference between one fan at ER screaming abuse at his own players and a whole group of fans at Anfield screaming/chanting abuse at another group of fans is not worth having an opinion about. They’re both too trivial to make it worthwhile spending time deciding whether one is, as you put it, “worse” than the other.

Whether Hitler was “worse” than Bernard Manning would be worth having an opinion about (I think he was); whether murder is a worse crime than rape (I think it is); etc. But all this competitive moral outrage on hibs.net about offensive fitba chants is soooo much hot air. Imo it consists mostly of ‘look at me and how much better my manners are than yours’. You might as well get outraged at which direction port is passed round the table.

Or at the ****** you write but neither is really worth worrying about..........I get it now. :aok:

[Pretty Boy]

It's been public knowledge for quite a while that several senior reporters at The Sun were uncomfortable with the story and advised against it. McKenzie made the decision to go with it because the British public liked a good old football hooligans story in those days, still do. He's to blame regardless of dodgy sources.

But I'd like to apologise to Kelvin. Sorry if I ever called you a cretinous, shameless, remorseless and frankly disgusting ****bag. You're far worse than that.

[lapsedhibee]

Or at the ****** you write but neither is really worth worrying about..........I get it now. :aok:

Exactly right. Opinions on an internet messageboard, Manure fans taunting 'puddle fans who'd already left the stadium (:crazy:), last week's loser on Strictly Come Baking - all chipwrappers under yesterday's bridge. There'll be something else along in a minute to get outraged about.

I hope as much energy goes into ensuring that prosecutions are followed through as went into the PR exercise by LFC and MUFC at Anfield last weekend.

What do you think should happen to those LFC fans identified as taking part in the offensive chanting - should they be banned from football matches sine die?

[Future17]

I have zero time for McKenzie and, for a variety of reasons, I believe he deserve every name he has been called on this thread.

Having said that, my knowledge of what is known about what went on at The Sun at the time of the reports in question is practically non-existent. Considering McKenzie's comments in the linked article, can someone provide me with a sensible, rational, coherent and expletive-free explanation of why he is wrong? :confused:

[Pretty Boy]

I have zero time for McKenzie and, for a variety of reasons, I believe he deserve every name he has been called on this thread.

Having said that, my knowledge of what is known about what went on at The Sun at the time of the reports in question is practically non-existent. Considering McKenzie's comments in the linked article, can someone provide me with a sensible, rational, coherent and expletive-free explanation of why he is wrong? :confused:


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_MacKenzie#section_2

Jump to the Hillsborough section. It's not great but it gives an.overview.

Key point for me is McKenzie published some shocking claims, including alleged sexual assault of a crush victim, yet senior reporters in his own team were unsure about the legitimacy of the sources. He sacrificed truth for a story. Whilst newspapers are guilty of this to some extent quite often, on such an emotive issue he should have been 100% sure. Mckenzie was never shy about the fact he wanted to appeal to the bigots and such like in society and that article was absolute proof of that.

[Scouse Hibee]

Exactly right. Opinions on an internet messageboard, Manure fans taunting 'puddle fans who'd already left the stadium (:crazy:), last week's loser on Strictly Come Baking - all chipwrappers under yesterday's bridge. There'll be something else along in a minute to get outraged about.

I hope as much energy goes into ensuring that prosecutions are followed through as went into the PR exercise by LFC and MUFC at Anfield last weekend.

What do you think should happen to those LFC fans identified as taking part in the offensive chanting - should they be banned from football matches sine die?


NO! They should be horse whipped in front of the KOP at the next home game and then forced to exchange their LFC seasons tickets for Hibs one's! The second part is a bit over the top I know but it worked for me all those years ago..........................I've never sung the Munich song since.

[Hibercelona]

The word I would have about that is that the difference between one fan at ER screaming abuse at his own players and a whole group of fans at Anfield screaming/chanting abuse at another group of fans is not worth having an opinion about. They’re both too trivial to make it worthwhile spending time deciding whether one is, as you put it, “worse” than the other.

Whether Hitler was “worse” than Bernard Manning would be worth having an opinion about (I think he was); whether murder is a worse crime than rape (I think it is); etc. But all this competitive moral outrage on hibs.net about offensive fitba chants is soooo much hot air. Imo it consists mostly of ‘look at me and how much better my manners are than yours’. You might as well get outraged at which direction port is passed round the table.

I really don't get your point at all.

So we'll just agree to disagree on this one.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Kelvin Mackenzie is a *****ing ***** and deserves all manner of misfortune.

:top marks

[clerriehibs]

I have zero time for McKenzie and, for a variety of reasons, I believe he deserve every name he has been called on this thread.

Having said that, my knowledge of what is known about what went on at The Sun at the time of the reports in question is practically non-existent. Considering McKenzie's comments in the linked article, can someone provide me with a sensible, rational, coherent and expletive-free explanation of why he is wrong? :confused:

He was an editor. He did nothing to truly verify the allegations he described at the time as "the truth" (other than to believe (he claims) a "conservative MP"). "Thought nothing" of printing the story, in his own words.

He danced on graves for the sake of profit. Personally, I'll be happy to dance on his grave for free once he's departed this earth, and when he does, this world will be an ever so slightly better place.

[Phil D. Rolls]

He was an editor. He did nothing to truly verify the allegations he described at the time as "the truth" (other than to believe (he claims) a "conservative MP"). "Thought nothing" of printing the story, in his own words.

He danced on graves for the sake of profit. Personally, I'll be happy to dance on his grave for free once he's departed this earth, and when he does, this world will be an ever so slightly better place.

I'll find it hard to take him seriously on Question Time again. Wonder if he's willing to come on air and take his medicine.

[S.sct]

Kelvin McKenzie thinks HE'S entitled to an apology.

You couldn't make it up!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-19727779
**** right OFF McKenzie

[hibsbollah]

I have zero time for McKenzie and, for a variety of reasons, I believe he deserve every name he has been called on this thread.

Having said that, my knowledge of what is known about what went on at The Sun at the time of the reports in question is practically non-existent. Considering McKenzie's comments in the linked article, can someone provide me with a sensible, rational, coherent and expletive-free explanation of why he is wrong? :confused:

He's not just 'wrong', he's lying AGAIN. the context is that for year upon year after Hillsborough, McKenzie would repeat the same now discredited lies about drunken fans, fighting with police, a massive charge on the gates, urinating on the dead etc etc, including on at least two BBC Question Times I've watched. But the information was already out in the semi-public domain, that a man like him would have had easy access to, that the official version of events was nonsense. He knew without a shadow of a doubt that there was, at the very least, solid suspicions that the police briefing was fabrication. But he kept mouthing off about it for years and years and causing more and more unnecessary hurt to the families, who were being told that their innocent relatives were, essentially, the deserving dead.

Basically, as of yesterday he's suddenly inventing a scenario in which he's been in the dark about what really happened at Hillsborough, and is therefore some kind of victim himself. Fortunately, even an idiot can see this is pure, undiluted pish.

[Jonnyboy]

I'll find it hard to take him seriously on Question Time again. Wonder if he's willing to come on air and take his medicine.

Surprised you've taken him seriously in past shows FR. The man is a waste of DNA

[Phil D. Rolls]

Surprised you've taken him seriously in past shows FR. The man is a waste of DNA

:whistle::greengrin

[Johnny Clash]

McKenzie did what all editors of that rag do ... and he deserves all he gets.

'The ****' has a shameful history... like back in 1988 when the MP Chris Mullins was condemned for trying to get six innocent men released from prison.

The **** ran the headline "Loony MP Backs Bomb Gang" to try demonise Mullins for campaigning against the the wrongful imprisonment of 'The Birmingham Six'.

Their hateful editorial stated : 'If the Sun had it's way, we would have been tempted to string 'em up years ago.'

As we all know, the 'Birmingham Six' were completely innocent and eventually released after 17 years in prison. That was 17 years of mental and physical abuse.

Just like Hillsborough... it was proven that the police altered evidence and committed perjury in court in order to convict six INNOCENT men.
Shamefully none of the guilty perjurers and liars were ever prosecuted and no action taken against them. All enjoyed full police pensions despite their criminal actions.

One of the six, Paddy Hill, went on to set up the Miscarraiges of Justice Organisation (MOJO) which I think deserves full support because such miscarriages still happen today.

Unsurprisingly, MOJO were involved helping the Hillsborough Justice Campaign.

Final point... anyone who continues to read 'The ****' for whatever lame excuse should feel deeply ashamed of themselves!

[Bad Martini]

He is a nasty little **** who deserves all he is getting now and all the pelters he could get in the future.

He is a horrible individual and a waste of sperm.

With that in mind, I'm wasting no more of my time on the little *******. When he departs this earth, he wont be missed. His net contribution to this world was to oversee the printing of numerous lies and bull****, ruining peoples lives with no regard and to **** with the consequences.

**** off McKenzie. Yer ****. So is yer lying ******* ex-paper.

ENDOF

[McIntosh]

He is a nasty little **** who deserves all he is getting now and all the pelters he could get in the future.

He is a horrible individual and a waste of sperm.

With that in mind, I'm wasting no more of my time on the little *******. When he departs this earth, he wont be missed. His net contribution to this world was to oversee the printing of numerous lies and bull****, ruining peoples lives with no regard and to **** with the consequences.

**** off McKenzie. Yer ****. So is yer lying ******* ex-paper.

ENDOF

Worth repeating. Quoted for Truth.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Surprised you've taken him seriously in past shows FR. The man is a waste of DNA

Totally agree. Mckenzie is The Sun in human form: ignorant, crass, bigoted, uneducated. Never was a person more suited to their job as when he was Sun editor, and its 'The Truth' headline was an all time low, even for that piece of s**t.

By the way, the Thatcher government that the likes of McKenzie adored, and which the city of Liverpool represented the anithesis of, was full of utter c**ts, and I hate that woman.

[WindyMiller]

Who'd have thunk it!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19836760

[JimBHibees]

Who'd have thunk it!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19836760

This comment says it all.

Sir Norman previously defended his role in the aftermath of the disaster, saying: "I never altered a statement nor asked for one to be altered."

Completely evasive. How about. Were you aware that other members of the force did? or that post disaster was there a conspiracy to blame the fans and hush up the truth of what happened.


Disgusting as the mother of 2 girls killed at Hillsborough said he should have been suspended pending a futher investigation not allowed to retire when he wanted to. Much like Dickenson who was allowed to retire due to ill health.

[WindyMiller]

This comment says it all.

Sir Norman previously defended his role in the aftermath of the disaster, saying: "I never altered a statement nor asked for one to be altered."

Completely evasive. How about. Were you aware that other members of the force did? or that post disaster was there a conspiracy to blame the fans and hush up the truth of what happened.


Disgusting as the mother of 2 girls killed at Hillsborough said he should have been suspended pending a futher investigation not allowed to retire when he wanted to. Much like Dickenson who was allowed to retire due to ill health.


She's absolutely correct!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/05/hillsborough-bettison-role?INTCMP=SRCH

[Stevie Reid]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19922092

Excerpt from the report: -

The scale of what the IPCC has announced is completely unprecedented.

There's never been an independent police investigation in the UK into multiple forces, in which the key allegations include perverting the course of justice - one of the most serious crimes that could be committed by a sworn officer.

What's not clear at the moment is how many officers, serving and former, will come under investigation and how long it will take
.
The second key issue will be whether, after all these years, investigators will be able to build cases that will reach the criminal standard of proof required for prosecutions.

This is just the first step on the long legal road to justice in the wake of the Hillsborough Panel Report.

The next important decision will come from the attorney general.

He will decide whether to ask the high court to reopen the inquests.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Perjury from the police, lies from the media, the victims blamed for their own death, including children. How far up does it go? There are people who held positions of power in 1989 who need to be put on trial, including government ministers. The whole thing reeks of corruption and cover up.

[cad]

Perjury from the police, lies from the media, the victims blamed for their own death, including children. How far up does it go? There are people who held positions of power in 1989 who need to be put on trial, including government ministers. The whole thing reeks of corruption and cover up.




It really does make you wonder what goes on ,and how far they will go ,this was in The Independant


Hillsborough: Now CPS is under fire

Senior prosecutor was at 1990 meeting that decided not to read all the eyewitness evidence





One of the most senior officials at the Crown Prosecution Service –which will decide whether South Yorkshire Police should be put in the dock over the Hillsborough disaster – was present when prosecutors decided in 1990 that they did not need to read all of the evidence before ruling out criminal charges.
Mike Kennedy, operations director at the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), warned colleagues at the time that it could be "particularly embarrassing" if the public found out that the body had failed to read all the witness statements before reaching their momentous decision on who should be blamed for the tragedy, in which 96 Liverpool fans died.
The Independent on Sunday understands that the CPS did not consider all the witness statements so they could reach a "speedy conclusion", during a meeting in London nine months after the crush. Rather, they allowed the police to choose the evidence on which prosecutors based their decision.
Minutes of the meeting, released to the Hillsborough Independent Panel, reveal that: "Mr Kennedy indicated that he would be unhappy if that were to occur, particularly as there was a possibility of being discovered at a later stage [that not all the statements had been seen] … this might be particularly embarrassing if a decision not to prosecute was reached." A subsequent legal ruling recorded that the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) was sent "approximately 11 per cent" of the Hillsborough witness statements.
The revelations put the legal establishment in the spotlight over the official failure to get to the truth of what happened when 96 people died at the FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest on 15 April 1989. They also raised questions over whether Mr Kennedy should have any involvement in discussions over what happens next.
The present DPP, Keir Starmer, ordered a fresh inquiry this month after the panel revealed police had changed scores of statements in an attempt to push blame on to the fans. More than 200 serving and former officers are expected to be investigated.
But the CPS "Joint Opinion", issued in August 1990, ruled out charges against any organisations or individuals. The advice, from the late Lord Justice Williams and Peter Birts QC, has been used as a reference point ever since. The Hillsborough panel's report, released last month, stated that the Joint Opinion "was accepted by the CPS, apparently without further consideration".
Minutes from the meeting between Mr Birts, police officers and the CPS in January 1990, state: "There was considerable discussion to whether all the documentation, ie statements should be submitted to counsel [Mr Birts]." The document adds: "Mr Birts indicated he would be quite happy to read everything." The minutes also state that police should be told to "edit out superfluous material" from the statements.
A CPS spokeswoman last night insisted that a fresh team, not including Mr Kennedy, would review Hillsborough. She added: "There were no criticisms of the CPS in the panel report, and we are not specifically reviewing the previous decision-making. The DPP at the time took the advice of two highly distinguished counsel, Peter Birts QC and Gareth Williams QC … However, if when reviewing the material disclosed by the panel we reach different conclusions to those arrived at by the CPS previously, we will inevitably assess how and why any earlier decisions were taken."
Sheila Coleman, of the Hillsborough Justice Campaign, said the revelations about the original CPS review were "absolutely disgraceful". She added: "To only go through 11 per cent of the witness statements – it's unbelievable." Neither Mr Birts nor Mr Kennedy was available for comment yesterday

[hibsbollah]

Always worth repeating...they had form five years previously.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/12/hillsborough-battle-orgreave?cat=football&type=article

[cad]

Always worth repeating...they had form five years previously.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/12/hillsborough-battle-orgreave?cat=football&type=article


The Parliamentary Debate on Hillsborough started at 4.30 it should be on till 10 .
Ive just started watching it live on The BBC ,Theresa May didn't miss anyone the Home Secretary speaking so candidly of historic police corruption has taken this to a new level