Reshuffle

[Beefster]

They've put a guy who believes in homeopathy in charge of Health (Hunt), moved the Transport Secretary for sticking to a manifesto pledge about a third runway at Heathrow (Greening) and brought back a guy who committed the same type of expense fiddles as some MPs who were jailed (Laws).

You know it's not going well when you're wishing Blair was back in charge...

[Hibbyradge]

8665

[hibsbollah]

A move to the right. Grayling replacing Ken Clarke is taking out the 'wettest' Tory and bringing in the most Thatcherite. Laws is the dodgy liar lib dem fall guy the Tories need. And James Naughtie got it right about Jeremy Hunt.

Without a change to the now totally discredited economic programme of austerity with no growth stimulus, (where are all the mythical private sector jobs moving into the public sector void?) its all largely irrelevant.

[Jonnyboy]

So effectively they've replaced a bunch of well off toffs with a different bunch of well off toffs?

My interest in politics in one sentence :greengrin

[Big Ed]

Cameron's first reshuffle and I am struggling to see the point of it. It has been trailed for months and yet, despite the Coalition's increasing unpopularity, the only real surprise was Lansley being replaced by Hunt at Health.
What then, has he achieved? - I am at a loss.
Getting rid of any duds? - setting aside my political prejudices (they are all duds :greengrin) I think that any Government Minister tasked with the size of NHS reform that Lansley was, would be deeply unpopular: surely that goes with the territory. Replacing him with Hunt appears to be a "**** you" to anyone still daft enough to believe in the integrity of Parliament, because you can bet your boots that the policies won't change.
Bringing in new talent from the backbenches? - no, he has simply shuffled the deckchairs.
Flexing his muscles as a Party Leader and Prime Minister of courage and vision? - he let Duncan-Smith tell him to GTF when he wanted him to move to Justice and binned Clarke to try and placate the voices from his right wing backbenchers.
This from the man who vowed to cut the dither holding Britain back.
Way to go Dave. :aok:

[Pretty Boy]

I'm refusing to comment until HKHibby tells us the score.

[steakbake]

I'm refusing to comment until HKHibby tells us the score.

Yes: we need that level of insight only he can give.

[Pete]

I saw Jack Straw and his his blind pal sitting on the back benches.

Political careers don't end in failure they just end up going a notch down.

The actual benefits of being part of the "system" never end. Elected or otherwise.

[Hainan Hibs]

Well, you all know what to do


8672

(Alarm bells ringing from HKhibby towers:greengrin)

[steakbake]

I saw Jack Straw and his his blind pal sitting on the back benches.

Political careers don't end in failure they just end up going a notch down.

The actual benefits of being part of the "system" never end. Elected or otherwise.

Very true, that last bit. Get elected, get some profile and you'll rarely need to look for a job outside of the establishment again. The same rubbish being recycled over and over again.

There are so few genuinely principled people on all sides, it's depressing.

[Beefster]

Well, you all know what to do


8672

(Alarm bells ringing from HKhibby towers:greengrin)

I knew someone would say it!

Independence isn't going to solve the issue of politicians being unprincipled bawbags and, personally, I would never vote for something as monumental as Scottish independence because of something as trivial as detesting the politicians of the day.

[whiskyhibby]

I knew someone would say it!

Independence isn't going to solve the issue of politicians being unprincipled bawbags and, personally, I would never vote for something as monumental as Scottish independence because of something as trivial as detesting the politicians of the day.

Well said, the Krankies aka Salmond and Sturgeon are toe cringingly embarrassing, the only response they
seem to have to any question or challenge is ' you can put down Scotland if you want to' or it's not our fault a big boy did it and ran away..........a couple of clueless numpties

[Eyrie]

Well, you all know what to do


8672

(Alarm bells ringing from HKhibby towers:greengrin)

In today's Scottish reshuffle, Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has quit as Health Minister so that she can head up the independence campaign, which shows where the SNP's priorities are.

[Glory Lurker]

In today's Scottish reshuffle, Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has quit as Health Minister so that she can head up the independence campaign, which shows where the SNP's priorities are.

How does it? It's not as if they've left the health portfolio vacant in her absence.

[steakbake]

In today's Scottish reshuffle, Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has quit as Health Minister so that she can head up the independence campaign, which shows where the SNP's priorities are.

I don't think the post will be left vacant?

Unless what you mean is that Sturgeon is one of the few Scottish politicians who are actually good at their jobs and she's a loss to the health gig?

[Eyrie]

How does it? It's not as if they've left the health portfolio vacant in her absence.


I don't think the post will be left vacant?

Unless what you mean is that Sturgeon is one of the few Scottish politicians who are actually good at their jobs and she's a loss to the health gig?

The most able politicians should be in the most important jobs. Sturgeon is generally regarded as one of the most able in the SNP and respected enough to be Deputy First Minister, so when she was in charge of health it showed a commitment to the importance of that portfolio. By moving her the SNP has made clear that separatism is more important than the nation's health, which is left to Alex Neil.

[hibsbollah]

The most able politicians should be in the most important jobs. Sturgeon is generally regarded as one of the most able in the SNP and respected enough to be Deputy First Minister, so when she was in charge of health it showed a commitment to the importance of that portfolio. By moving her the SNP has made clear that separatism is more important than the nation's health, which is left to Alex Neil.

Politically, independence IS more important than health, so its a good call by jowlybaws. Sturgeon is, whether you like her or not, a better communicator of ideas than her peers.

[Glory Lurker]

By moving her the SNP has made clear that separatism is more important than the nation's health, which is left to Alex Neil.

No it doesn't, it just shows that the SNP has more than one person capable of handling the brief properly. As this is a Labour line you're taking here, I am guessing that that's where your allegiance lies (I appreciate that this is a dreadful slur if I am wrong, and I apologise unreservedly:greengrin)? Labour is trying to peddle this line, while overlooking the fact that the SNP know full well that they have to deliver right across the board to have a chance of winning independence. To suggest that the SNP does not care about the "bread and butter" issues is just totally wrong. Why the decades of despair at what Labour has done to Glasgow otherwise?

[Hibrandenburg]

The most able politicians should be in the most important jobs. Sturgeon is generally regarded as one of the most able in the SNP and respected enough to be Deputy First Minister, so when she was in charge of health it showed a commitment to the importance of that portfolio. By moving her the SNP has made clear that separatism is more important than the nation's health, which is left to Alex Neil.

Maybe the health service along with many more will benefit from independence. Your train of thought is very static, we always need to be looking forward and not just back.

[Eyrie]

Politically, independence IS more important than health, so its a good call by jowlybaws. Sturgeon is, whether you like her or not, a better communicator of ideas than her peers.
Independence is only more important than health to Nationalists, and a fair number of them would put the NHS first.


No it doesn't, it just shows that the SNP has more than one person capable of handling the brief properly. As this is a Labour line you're taking here, I am guessing that that's where your allegiance lies (I appreciate that this is a dreadful slur if I am wrong, and I apologise unreservedly:greengrin)? Labour is trying to peddle this line, while overlooking the fact that the SNP know full well that they have to deliver right across the board to have a chance of winning independence. To suggest that the SNP does not care about the "bread and butter" issues is just totally wrong. Why the decades of despair at what Labour has done to Glasgow otherwise?
Apology accepted :aok: The main reason the SNP got re-elected was that people felt they'd done a good job of government last time, and that would include having to focus on the bread and butter issues because they lacked the majority to push for independence.


Maybe the health service along with many more will benefit from independence. Your train of thought is very static, we always need to be looking forward and not just back.
Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But as someone who uses the NHS occasionally I'd like it to benefit now instead of being treated as a side-show to the main event of separatism.

[Hibrandenburg]

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But as someone who uses the NHS occasionally I'd like it to benefit now instead of being treated as a side-show to the main event of separatism.

You already do north of the border. The SNP have made Health one of their main priorities and there are many in the south who enviously look at what's on offer in Scotland.

IMO this reshuffle is playing into the seperatist's hands. Long may it continue. :saltireflag

[steakbake]

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But as someone who uses the NHS occasionally I'd like it to benefit now instead of being treated as a side-show to the main event of separatism.

I also use it occasionally. I hope Alex Neil doesn't personally ruin all the training of the fine doctors and nurses. We all know that Nicola Sturgeon was the ultimate consultant and was often asked to perform triple heart bypasses as part of her remit. In fact, until the reshuffle, she was thinking of changing her name to Nicola Surgeon.

[lyonhibs]

I thought it was biologically impossible to make the Cabinet more of a white, Middle England closed shop. But then Captain Dave got rid of the only Tory I'd go for a pint with (Clarke), the only ethnic minority (Warsi - although she was an absolute bawsack) and appointed a once disgraced minister to a major post.

Now I'm no longer a UK taxpayer, cheers for proving me wrong Davie boy!!!

[steakbake]

I thought it was biologically impossible to make the Cabinet more of a white, Middle England closed shop. But then Captain Dave got rid of the only Tory I'd go for a pint with (Clarke), the only ethnic minority (Warsi - although she was an absolute bawsack) and appointed a once disgraced minister to a major post.

Now I'm no longer a UK taxpayer, cheers for proving me wrong Davie boy!!!

This is Cameron apparently being decisive. This is a useless government opposed by a useless opposition. Hope someone good emerges between now and 2015 or this could be a very long decade.

[RyeSloan]

This is Cameron apparently being decisive. This is a useless government opposed by a useless opposition. Hope someone good emerges between now and 2015 or this could be a very long decade.

Don't hold your breath...the fact is no UK politician has the baws to tell the populace the bad news....the nations finances are stuffed and the spend a little less or spend a little more arguments are a side show.

The fact is the nation needs a big dose of bad medicine that would involve a substantial reduction in government spending and a substantial cut in current and future social security (in the broadest sense) liabilities. This would be painful for many in the short term , too many for politicians to ever consider so never gets discussed.

Who wants to hear that we can't afford future pensions or ever expanding healthcare or the massive welfare state or the absurd tax credit system or for government spending to be over 50% of GDP in huge swathes of the country...too many people benefit from government spending for any politician to ever get elected telling it how it actually is.

Just look at the abuse thrown at Osbourne since he came into power about his "too far too fast" strategy and how all of the cuts are so painful...then have a look at what has happened to Government spending....the reality doesn't match the rhetoric coming from with side of the house.

[Big Ed]

Don't hold your breath...the fact is no UK politician has the baws to tell the populace the bad news....the nations finances are stuffed and the spend a little less or spend a little more arguments are a side show.

The fact is the nation needs a big dose of bad medicine that would involve a substantial reduction in government spending and a substantial cut in current and future social security (in the broadest sense) liabilities. This would be painful for many in the short term , too many for politicians to ever consider so never gets discussed.

Who wants to hear that we can't afford future pensions or ever expanding healthcare or the massive welfare state or the absurd tax credit system or for government spending to be over 50% of GDP in huge swathes of the country...too many people benefit from government spending for any politician to ever get elected telling it how it actually is.

Just look at the abuse thrown at Osbourne since he came into power about his "too far too fast" strategy and how all of the cuts are so painful...then have a look at what has happened to Government spending....the reality doesn't match the rhetoric coming from with side of the house.

The demise of traditional party politics appears to have coincided with increasing numbers of cowards who purport to represent the public as MPs. I am in agreement with you there.

Where I disagree, is with your prognosis for a recovery: massive cuts that are painful in the short term appears to be the only solution, but only when our only policy is to try to resurrect a moribund economic system.

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and their families" so said Margaret Thatcher. That quote is as disgusting now as it was then: that simple, selfish individualism drives people, means that the market is the most effective means of giving them what they need, rather than membership of a so-called society. In encouraging this idea, we have condoned tax evasion, fraud, money laundering, obscene payments and bonuses for executives; at the same time we accept high unemployment, depressed wages for the vast majority and companies being denied funds to grow, by banks who were given billions by the state for that very purpose.

Public debt is being used to bail out failed banks; the result: austerity programmes to reduce debts, which diminish tax returns and GDP leading to further cuts in a futile attempt to halt the mounting debt and economic decline.

George Osborne and his ilk deserve to be abused because of their blind faith in an economic theory that should have lost all credibility when the crash occurred in 2008.

The ones still backing him are the ones who will look to profit from the resulting carnage.

[hibsbollah]

The demise of traditional party politics appears to have coincided with increasing numbers of cowards who purport to represent the public as MPs. I am in agreement with you there.

Where I disagree, is with your prognosis for a recovery: massive cuts that are painful in the short term appears to be the only solution, but only when our only policy is to try to resurrect a moribund economic system.

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and their families" so said Margaret Thatcher. That quote is as disgusting now as it was then: that simple, selfish individualism drives people, means that the market is the most effective means of giving them what they need, rather than membership of a so-called society. In encouraging this idea, we have condoned tax evasion, fraud, money laundering, obscene payments and bonuses for executives; at the same time we accept high unemployment, depressed wages for the vast majority and companies being denied funds to grow, by banks who were given billions by the state for that very purpose.

Public debt is being used to bail out failed banks; the result: austerity programmes to reduce debts, which diminish tax returns and GDP leading to further cuts in a futile attempt to halt the mounting debt and economic decline.

George Osborne and his ilk deserve to be abused because of their blind faith in an economic theory that should have lost all credibility when the crash occurred in 2008.

The ones still backing him are the ones who will look to profit from the resulting carnage.

Excellent post. The chosen narrative of the Right; 'social democratic big spender boys did it and ran away' isnt disguising the paucity of policy ideas coming from the likes of Osborne.

Back to the OP, the reshuffle has moved Jeremy Hunt, who has a policy background supporting dismantling the NHS, right into Health, where he has the power to make the kind of massive cuts that simar and co presumably support. I wonder if he'll have the courage of his convictions?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mobileweb/2012/09/06/jeremy-hunt-under-fire-for-wanting-to-denationalise-the-health-service_n_1860200.html

[Jack]

Independence is only more important than health to Nationalists, and a fair number of them would put the NHS first.


Apology accepted :aok: The main reason the SNP got re-elected was that people felt they'd done a good job of government last time, and that would include having to focus on the bread and butter issues because they lacked the majority to push for independence.


Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But as someone who uses the NHS occasionally I'd like it to benefit now instead of being treated as a side-show to the main event of separatism.

TBF Nichola Sturgeon was only responsible for delivering the SNP policies in health. Very early in their days in government the SNP made it clear that the NHS would work in collaboration rather than in competition with itself and that there would be no privatisation.

The BMA and all the other bits that represent and make up the NHS in Scotland loved it and bought into it.

Its not all been plain sailing and there's still some way to go. As long as the SNP continue with the same sort of policies Alex Neil will be just fine.

A perspective from the NHS not a political one.

A personal view is if I'm going to be ill, or young, or old, anywhere in the UK I'd rather it was Scotland.

[RyeSloan]

The demise of traditional party politics appears to have coincided with increasing numbers of cowards who purport to represent the public as MPs. I am in agreement with you there.

Where I disagree, is with your prognosis for a recovery: massive cuts that are painful in the short term appears to be the only solution, but only when our only policy is to try to resurrect a moribund economic system.

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and their families" so said Margaret Thatcher. That quote is as disgusting now as it was then: that simple, selfish individualism drives people, means that the market is the most effective means of giving them what they need, rather than membership of a so-called society. In encouraging this idea, we have condoned tax evasion, fraud, money laundering, obscene payments and bonuses for executives; at the same time we accept high unemployment, depressed wages for the vast majority and companies being denied funds to grow, by banks who were given billions by the state for that very purpose.

Public debt is being used to bail out failed banks; the result: austerity programmes to reduce debts, which diminish tax returns and GDP leading to further cuts in a futile attempt to halt the mounting debt and economic decline.

George Osborne and his ilk deserve to be abused because of their blind faith in an economic theory that should have lost all credibility when the crash occurred in 2008.

The ones still backing him are the ones who will look to profit from the resulting carnage.

Very insightful...trotting out a Margaret Thatcher quote..is that really the best you can do?

I assume by 'Osbourne and his ilk' you mean Balls as well....I see you managed to mention two Tory's (past and present) but failed to mention the one person that is purporting to borrow even more to spend even more money we don't have.

I like some of your sound bites though, all negative of course...any chance you could suggest what 'Osbourne and his ilk' should be doing to reduce debt, increase tax returns and GDP because I'm genuinely interested.

[hibsbollah]

Very insightful...trotting out a Margaret Thatcher quote..is that really the best you can do?

I assume by 'Osbourne and his ilk' you mean Balls as well....I see you managed to mention two Tory's (past and present) but failed to mention the one person that is purporting to borrow even more to spend even more money we don't have.

I like some of your sound bites though, all negative of course...any chance you could suggest what 'Osbourne and his ilk' should be doing to reduce debt, increase tax returns and GDP because I'm genuinely interested.


Hold on, one minute youre saying both sides of the Commons have the same spineless inability to do what the country needs (slash and burn the public sector while leaving tax for the rich unchanged, i presume you mean) and are indistinguisable from each other, next youre saying Balls is all on his own calling for spending money the country doesnt have. Which is it?

Balls is ACTUALLY calling for a move from income tax to wealth tax, as well as a Cable-esque mansion tax and a tax on bankers bonuses to help fund new training programmes and spending on health.

[RyeSloan]

Hold on, one minute youre saying both sides of the Commons have the same spineless inability to do what the country needs (slash and burn the public sector while leaving tax for the rich unchanged, i presume you mean) and are indistinguisable from each other, next youre saying Balls is all on his own calling for spending money the country doesnt have. Which is it?

Balls is ACTUALLY calling for a move from income tax to wealth tax, as well as a Cable-esque mansion tax and a tax on bankers bonuses to help fund new training programmes and spending on health.

No where did I suggest what you have suggested :greengrin

All I have suggested is that the UK public is not prepared to listen to the fact that our Government cannot support it's current and continuing habit of spending more than it earns.

I've not seen too much from Balls that suggests he is in anyway aligned to the need to remove the deficit (no matter reduce the overall debt burden) any time soon nor understands that more and more government spending does not provide sustainable long term 'growth'...if it did then why with our near record post war level of spending is it not already doing that? When is enough enough?

I've not seen the detail of his income to wealth proposals...if you could ping me a link I'll happily read them. What I have seen is short term tax reductions (i.e bigger borrowing) in terms of VAT reduction, a bank bonus tax (really is that the best he can come up with..popular I suppose but hardly a long term growth strategy is it!) an acceleration of long term investment projects (possibly good for growth in the long term but devilishly difficult to actually measure..see the £9bn spent on the West Coast mainline for example) and a rather weird vat cut for home improvements...doesn't seem a particularly comprehensive package and is hardly a move away form the failed economic policy that Big Ed (our .net verison :wink:) was signifying was needed.

Contrary to you belief I'm all ears as to what people propose should happen going forward...this is after all probably times like no other however from a very simple perspective I don't necessarily believe in the ability of Governments to provide growth and jobs through central spending and certainly don't beleive that ever increasing amounts of borrowing largely made affordable by the BoE buying gilts and depressing yields is doing anythig to provide a sustainable future, a future that has some pretty hefy and growing public liabilities....and all I was trying to say is that no politician of any colour has the balls (see what I did there!) to step up and say it as it is because they would be shouted down by those making promises with money we don't have.

[NAE NOOKIE]

TBH I dont have as much of a grasp of the movers and shakers in UK politics as I used to. Probably because unlike the 80s and 90s there seems to be a lack of personalities ( good and bad ) compared to what there used to be.

Camerons reshuffle doesnt mean a lot because it seems to be a case of replacing one mental midget with another. Politicians these days are so bland its hard to even hate them ..... anybody who remembers how easy it was to hate the Tories ( unless you were a Tory of course ) will know what I mean.

There have been a few comments against Alex Salmond on here .... but even his opponents have been forced to admit that for the last 4 years or so he has ran rings around them.

I am a nationalist .... But for me its a pretty simple matter. Economics etc dont really enter into it. My desire to see Scotland as an independent country is purely based on my conviction that any country which is prepared to relinquish its sovereignty and therefore its identity ( for whatever reason ) has no right to call itsself a country at all.

Folk who say that you can be British and still be a proud Scot are probably correct, but ( for me ) only in the sense that somebody from Yorkshire is proud to be a Yorkshireman or somebody from London is proud to be a Londoner, neither of these has any pretensions to be a country. I want to be a citizen of the country of Scotland .... Not the UK region of Scotland.

I know its a minor point ... but its infuriating to know that to the rest of the world the wee group of islands off the west coast of Europe are known as England .... not Great Britain, not the UK ... England. Watch any foreign TV show for proof of that. Listen to any German WW2 veteran or an Argentinian veteran of the Falklands ... As far as they are concerned they were fighting England.

At the start of this year there was a news report from Tripoli showing the immidiate aftermath of the demise of Colonel Gadaffi .... the guy waving the new flag and screaming in delerium wasnt shouting ... "thank you Britain, thank you Britain" ... he was shouting "thank you England, thank you England" ........ welcome to the world view of the great country of Scotland folks.

Still .... I suppose the unionists are right ... there is no way a wee country of 5 million people can survive or make its mark without the protection of England, Wales and Northern Ireland ... I mean to say, there are no examples of that out there, are there?

Ach its true .... we are far too incompetent to run ourselves ... lets face it, this place would be no better than a third world banana republic within a few years of going it alone .... or at least thats what a large number of " proud Scots " seem to believe.

If you are a unionist .... cool, be happy .... but if you think you actually also belong to a real country called Scotland ... you dont, thats the price. You cant have your cake and eat it as they say.

[Big Ed]

Very insightful...trotting out a Margaret Thatcher quote..is that really the best you can do?

I assume by 'Osbourne and his ilk' you mean Balls as well....I see you managed to mention two Tory's (past and present) but failed to mention the one person that is purporting to borrow even more to spend even more money we don't have.

I like some of your sound bites though, all negative of course...any chance you could suggest what 'Osbourne and his ilk' should be doing to reduce debt, increase tax returns and GDP because I'm genuinely interested.

Well: let me start by saying that you are right in your assumption that when I referred to Osborne and his ilk; I would happily include Ed Balls.

Regarding the Thatcher quote: I see it as relevant, because she was the Prime Minister in charge of a Government that first used the theories of Friedman and Hayek as an economic template. Her rejection of society in favour of individualism is at the centre of Government economic thinking more than thirty years later. The Chancellor of the Exchequer in the present Government is Osborne.

I recently heard Michael Forsyth on the radio calling for the dismissal of Vince Cable because he was "anti-business" - the latest pejorative term thought up by free market zealots who don't like it when anyone has the temerity to suggest that large organisations desist from doing whatever they bloody well want.

My view is that it is the behavior of these large organisations that is anti-business. Trust has been undermined by their scandalous, corrupt and fraudulent excesses, yet when they are finally confronted with proof of this: they hand over some money and accept no blame. With armies of lobbyists, lawyers, compliant accountants and tame MPs; they have every conceivable advantage to maximise profits and enrich themselves in the process, yet they accept no responsibility to reciprocate.

The Government and the Judiciary need to work hand in hand to ensure that corporate criminal behavior results in jail time for serious offences. Those in charge of companies who are caught out behaving in this manner should have their bonuses slashed or taken away completely, thus corporate responsibility would involve CEOs actively seeking out potential wrong doing, rather than paying lip service to it.

Whilst there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth; I think that the Markets would come around to the idea that flagrant rule breaking is bad for business and that the return of trust might actually benefit investors, which in turn may stimulate growth and then increase tax returns and GDP.

[yeezus.]

Interesting that Jeremy Hunt believes in homeopathy...

When I left the Labour party in 2011 I was quick to jump onto the independence bandwagon. I've never considered myself an SNP supporter, but I think Gordon Brown has a point when he says that they are trying to water down independence so much (membership of NATO, reliance on the Bank of England etc.) that there is a case top be made for more devolved powers.

[marinello59]

Interesting that Jeremy Hunt believes in homeopathy...

When I left the Labour party in 2011 I was quick to jump onto the independence bandwagon. I've never considered myself an SNP supporter, but I think Gordon Brown has a point when he says that they are trying to water down independence so much (membership of NATO, reliance on the Bank of England etc.) that there is a case top be made for more devolved powers.

Salmond has still not defined what his version of Independence is yet. If it is indeed Independence Lite than we may well be better off with Devolution Max. Hopefully we get some meat on the bones sooner rather than later, what is he running scared of?

[steakbake]

I'm not sure what the difference is between independence lite and devo max. Aren't they the same thing? As much as Salmond has to explain what independence really means, it's up to the pro union parties to explain where we go from here and if an alternative to the status quo is not needed, why that is.

[yeezus.]

Salmond has still not defined what his version of Independence is yet. If it is indeed Independence Lite than we may well be better off with Devolution Max. Hopefully we get some meat on the bones sooner rather than later, what is he running scared of?

Aye, good point. My concern is that the SNP (and Angus Robertson) in particular are coming up with a very watered down version of independence.

I'd like more answers from the SNP. Already the Greens and SSP are a bit annoyed at them taking such a leading role in the Yes campaign - almost pushing minority party's to the side.

[HKhibby]

Yes: we need that level of insight only he can give.

and you could give alot of in-sight, as you call it, living in the deluded world that all of you seem to live in, in Scotland...dont think so!...sorry its petty little Scotland we are talking here!...cant change...wont change...dont know how to...narrow minded...etc...etc...etc...same place in 2012 as when i left 25 years ago!...not long enough

[steakbake]

and you could give alot of in-sight, as you call it, living in the deluded world that all of you seem to live in, in Scotland...dont think so!...sorry its petty little Scotland we are talking here!...cant change...wont change...dont know how to...narrow minded...etc...etc...etc...same place in 2012 as when i left 25 years ago!...not long enough

I love it when you come on.

As much as you hate Scotland and the people here, you'll never be able to change where you are from! Forever from here, but you'll always hate it in an apparently really bitter way. Maybe you blame it for your own short comings? Maybe all those international jet set ex-pat types who you probably mix with in the S.A.R are so endlessly exotic but you're just from *****ey wee Scotland. A massive inferiority complex: that's a very Scottish trait. It must be horrifying for you. The fact it grates on you as much as it seems to, is increasingly very, very satisfying.

[Jonnyboy]

and you could give alot of in-sight, as you call it, living in the deluded world that all of you seem to live in, in Scotland...dont think so!...sorry its petty little Scotland we are talking here!...cant change...wont change...dont know how to...narrow minded...etc...etc...etc...same place in 2012 as when i left 25 years ago!...not long enough

So why do you care what those of us still living in the country of our birth say?

[marinello59]

So why do you care what those of us still living in the country of our birth say?

i am just pleased that he does. :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

i am just pleased that he does. :greengrin

For the entertainment value, if nothing else :greengrin

[Betty Boop]

The sight of Osbourne being roundly booed by the crowd, at the medal ceremony at the Paralympics. Comedy gold ! Closely followed by Teresa May. I wonder who thought this was agood idea ? :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

The sight of Osbourne being roundly booed by the crowd, at the medal ceremony at the Paralympics. Comedy gold ! Closely followed by Teresa May. I wonder who thought this was agood idea ? :greengrin

Indeed. Who would ever have thought that Clare Balding would get a better reception than those two :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Indeed. Who would ever have thought that Clare Balding would get a better reception than those two :greengrin

I like Balding. Shes not a SSN bird but thats sort of the point.

[RyeSloan]

I like Balding. Shes not a SSN bird but thats sort of the point.

You don't like her as in like her though surely....

[Jack]

Salmond has still not defined what his version of Independence is yet. If it is indeed Independence Lite than we may well be better off with Devolution Max. Hopefully we get some meat on the bones sooner rather than later, what is he running scared of?


Aye, good point. My concern is that the SNP (and Angus Robertson) in particular are coming up with a very watered down version of independence.

I'd like more answers from the SNP. Already the Greens and SSP are a bit annoyed at them taking such a leading role in the Yes campaign - almost pushing minority party's to the side.

I think it’s a result of modern day politics and the lack of anything that could loosely be described as debate.

Party A (lets call them) produces a manifesto, or if in government policies, at great cost in terms of time and money. They publish them and look forward to reasoned debate.

Party A “We are publishing this paper as a discussion document to help the voters understand the benefits of xxxx.”

Party B (lets call them, although this could be more than 1 party) say “Naw it izny, that’s awe crap”

Party A “Aye it is, cause we said so.”

Party B “Well we say it naw so its naw, right.”

Party A “Our party is bigger than your party, so it is.”

Party B “Naw its naw.”

Party A “Aye it is.”

Party B “Naw its naw.”

Party A “Your leader is a sexual deviant, he duzny care aboot the peepil”
Party B “Yours fiddles his expenses, he duzny care aboot the peepil”

Party A & B together “So whit? Soz yours. Whit peepil?”

[yeezus.]

I think it’s a result of modern day politics and the lack of anything that could loosely be described as debate.

Party A (lets call them) produces a manifesto, or if in government policies, at great cost in terms of time and money. They publish them and look forward to reasoned debate.

Party A “We are publishing this paper as a discussion document to help the voters understand the benefits of xxxx.”

Party B (lets call them, although this could be more than 1 party) say “Naw it izny, that’s awe crap”

Party A “Aye it is, cause we said so.”

Party B “Well we say it naw so its naw, right.”

Party A “Our party is bigger than your party, so it is.”

Party B “Naw its naw.”

Party A “Aye it is.”

Party B “Naw its naw.”

Party A “Your leader is a sexual deviant, he duzny care aboot the peepil”
Party B “Yours fiddles his expenses, he duzny care aboot the peepil”

Party A & B together “So whit? Soz yours. Whit peepil?”

Your analysis probably isn't far off. I voted SNP in 2012 because I was so angry at the Labour party in Scotland. Johann Lamont still fails to appeal to me but I see myself voting Labour like normal again next time round.

[hibsbollah]

You don't like her as in like her though surely....

No, she doesn't 'ring my bell' (but as she's a card carrying lesbian she probably doesn't get all moist at the thought of me either :greengrin)

Shes got a brain and she talks sense about sport.

[RyeSloan]

No, she doesn't 'ring my bell'(but as she's a card carrying lesbian she probably doesn't get all moist at the thought of me either :greengrin)

Shes got a brain and she talks sense about sport.

Indeed...so few pundits on TV can claim either or both of these so agree completely!

Not sure you had to raise the imagine of her getting moist though...balding or not I doubt it's overly appealing :wink:

[hibsbollah]

Indeed...so few pundits on TV can claim either or both of these so agree completely!

Not sure you had to raise the imagine of her getting moist though...balding or not I doubt it's overly appealing :wink:

I dont know where that came from myself, to be honest :hide:
Anyway :hijack:

[One Day Soon]

No, she doesn't 'ring my bell' (but as she's a card carrying lesbian she probably doesn't get all moist at the thought of me either :greengrin)

Shes got a brain and she talks sense about sport.


I agree. Informed and sensible in the way she presents. I have to admit that I like her - and I like her a bit too.

Anyway, back to the reshuffle(s)...

[RyeSloan]

Saqw this quote from Daniel Finkelstein in The Times.


"Cameron still leads a government of a country with no growth and no money, as the leader of a party with no majority, in coalition with partners under terrible political pressure. He couldn’t reshuffle his way out of that. And he hasn’t"

Sums it well I think.