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Nailrod
28-08-2012, 09:18 PM
Since there seemed to be some rather heated exchanges on the match thread tonight about whether Fenlon is useless or not, and if so how useless he is, I thought I would offer a little clarity:

Ratings of our last five managers (% performance in all matches against SPL opposition based on 3 pts for a win, 1 for a draw, 0 for a loss)

Collins: 49%
Mixu: 42%
Yogi: 38%
CC: 33%
PF: 37%

So PF is better than Calderwood and only marginally worse than Yogi. Having said that, in presiding over a 0-5 reverse at home to Celtic, an utter humiliation against Hearts in the cup, and now a pumping out of the League Cup by 2nd Division opponents, PF has three ribbons on his chest that none of his predecessors quite managed.

Sean1875
28-08-2012, 09:20 PM
He is also the only manager out of them that had to immediatly follow the mess that CC left behind. That has to be taken into account in terms of percentages.

S.sct
28-08-2012, 09:21 PM
Livid about tonight but we need to give the guy time. Window closes on Friday, lets hope he brings in a bit of pace and guile to the midfield.

Speedway
28-08-2012, 09:23 PM
Livid about tonight but we need to give the guy time. Window closes on Friday, lets hope he brings in a bit of pace and guile to the midfield.

He's supposed to have done that already.

Vault Boy
28-08-2012, 09:25 PM
Don't, just don't.

HibeeSince85
28-08-2012, 09:27 PM
Poor result, Hibs losing in their first game in the cup to a 2nd division side is never acceptable.

Shouldn't even be talking about emptying him just now though.

The_Horde
28-08-2012, 09:27 PM
He's supposed to have done that already.

In whom?

gackohibs
28-08-2012, 09:27 PM
the percentages also tell a very obvious story. the slow decline of quality at hibs!!

I strongly believe Pat Fenlon is the man to take us forward. We have already shown improvement in the new signings he has made!
Keep the Faith!!

Hibee Ryan
28-08-2012, 09:27 PM
Out of those 5 he was left with the worst squad and didn't have a summer transfer window to sort it out, last season was written off when he took over, he was meant to keep us up and he did. Fenlon is the only one to get to a Scottish cup final as well:wink:. Not one of us ever thought about getting to the Scottish cup final as possible when Fenlon took over, start a fresh, look at his results so far this season and he's looking much better than the stats suggest

matty_f
28-08-2012, 09:28 PM
I think he's good enough and is the man for the job, but he got it horribly wrong tonight.

Regardless of the team selection there has to be a question over his tactics tonight.

500miles
28-08-2012, 09:29 PM
He's supposed to have done that already.

That's right, because he's been static in the transfer market.

Major surgery takes time.

Speedway
28-08-2012, 09:29 PM
;3342652']In whom?

Cairney was supposed to have pace and Deegan was supposed to have guile.

Nailrod
28-08-2012, 09:30 PM
He is also the only manager out of them that had to immediatly follow the mess that CC left behind. That has to be taken into account in terms of percentages.

Do I have to put tonight's result down to Fenlon still sorting out the mess that CC left behind as well? I confess I would struggle with that one a bit.

Speedway
28-08-2012, 09:31 PM
Do I have to put tonight's result down to Fenlon still sorting out the mess that CC left behind as well? I confess I would struggle with that one a bit.

And Calderwood gets a pass because he was the only one who had to inherit Yogi's mess.

Hibee Ryan
28-08-2012, 09:33 PM
And Calderwood gets a pass because he was the only one who had to inherit Yogi's mess.

Calderwood managed to take the mess that Yogi left and made it worse, I didn't think that was possible but he managed it

happiehibbie
28-08-2012, 09:34 PM
For me Mr Fenlon is not the man for the job (i hope am wrong) i dont want to go on and on but fix it before its to late

ScottB
28-08-2012, 09:38 PM
There was always going to be ups and downs this season.

The three good games in a row did not meant that a 'last season' esque performance wasn't lurking ready to return. Equally, nor does this one performance mean that we won't see any more performances like we've seen in the last couple games.

We have a decent starting 11 now, tonight showed that drafting back in some of the weak links from last season can quickly undo things. Hopefully those on high take note and release enough funds to prevent them from having to be seen again. Perhaps, as well as resting important players, tonight was to give those guys one last chance to impress, or indeed, enough rope to hang themselves with...


I'm willing to judge Pat on this season alone, so his percentage stats so far don't overly concern me. Should we go through this season and still be in the 30% range, then he will be out of excuses and had more than enough time to prove himself, and should go accordingly. Personally I think he'll get us into the top 6 at least this season, but only time will tell.

Nailrod
28-08-2012, 09:39 PM
Out of those 5 he was left with the worst squad and didn't have a summer transfer window to sort it out, last season was written off when he took over, he was meant to keep us up and he did. Fenlon is the only one to get to a Scottish cup final as well:wink:. Not one of us ever thought about getting to the Scottish cup final as possible when Fenlon took over, start a fresh, look at his results so far this season and he's looking much better than the stats suggest

I think perhaps a wee bit of honesty is needed about that particular achievement. We got to the Scottish Cup Final last season without having to play a single team from the top half of the SPL. Which was probably just as well, because when you look at our results last season against the six teams who did finish in the top half of the SPL, we managed the princely total of one win in twenty tries (plus a win on pens v Motherwell).

And when we eventually did have to face a team from the top half of the SPL, things didn't actually turn out very well.

Heedersnvolleys
28-08-2012, 09:39 PM
He is also the only manager out of them that had to immediatly follow the mess that CC left behind. That has to be taken into account in terms of percentages.

Sorry but it looks like he is creating his own mess himself. Having to sign another left back this season as his original left back he signed he does not want tp play as he is murder!

Lets face it I think people were getting a bit carried away with our 2 wins and a draw where we have been poor in spells of the games. Up until we scored on Saturday it reminded so much of the stuff we had to endure last season.

Jonnyboy
28-08-2012, 09:39 PM
I think he's good enough and is the man for the job, but he got it horribly wrong tonight.

Regardless of the team selection there has to be a question over his tactics tonight.

Agreed.

Not to mention his tactics in the Cup Final.

Regardless, the players must shoulder most of the blame. I wasn't there tonight but the reports from those that were, together with the result would suggest the players performed poorly. Now the conundrum for me is - are they just ****** or were they given crap tactics and instructions?

IberianHibernian
28-08-2012, 09:40 PM
Terrible result tonight and Fenlon must take his share of blame but a lot of the folk who criticise him today and before seem to have been criticising him for whatever reason ( footballing or not ) since he was appointed . With Yogi it was obvious that quite a few here were dead against his appointment and didn`t even give grudging praise when we were doing well under him and even seemed to enjoy the " I told you so " when things went wrong . Probably the same with CC , Mixu etc too . Genuine criticism of managers for their tactics and signings etc including praise if / when things go well might be more useful . In the 45 years I`ve supported Hibs , Turnbull ( sacked as he led us towards relegation ) and Mowbray ( a failure as a manager since and lots of bad signings and cup results while with us ) were considered to be the best by " experts " . Of the recent managers , each one has inherited a worse squad than his predecessor . Is there really much difference between any of the managers at Hibs or elsewhere ?

Hibee Ryan
28-08-2012, 09:44 PM
I think perhaps a wee bit of honesty is needed about that particular achievement. We got to the Scottish Cup Final last season without having to play a single team from the top half of the SPL. Which was probably just as well, because when you look at our results last season against the six teams who did finish in the top half of the SPL, we managed the princely total of one win in twenty tries (plus a win on pens v Motherwell).

And when we eventually did have to face a team from the top half of the SPL, things didn't actually turn out very well.

Fair enough but against Killie, I'm 100% we would of lost with Calderwood as manager. We lost 5-0 (I think?) with Calderwood as manager at Rugby Park but beat them in the league with Fenlon in the return fixture and in the cup

CallumLaidlaw
28-08-2012, 09:46 PM
Agreed.

Not to mention his tactics in the Cup Final.

Regardless, the players must shoulder most of the blame. I wasn't there tonight but the reports from those that were, together with the result would suggest the players performed poorly. Now the conundrum for me is - are they just ****** or were they given crap tactics and instructions?

Pat Fenlon "disgusted" with Hibs performance. Strong stuff. Even hinted he might be "back in for a look" at on or two Queens players.

Jonnyboy
28-08-2012, 09:48 PM
Pat Fenlon "disgusted" with Hibs performance. Strong stuff. Even hinted he might be "back in for a look" at on or two Queens players.

And so he should be. Was he interviewed by the Beeb? I switched off after the end of the Livi game as I couldn't stand listening to that dick Preston

Nailrod
28-08-2012, 09:49 PM
Pat Fenlon "disgusted" with Hibs performance. Strong stuff. Even hinted he might be "back in for a look" at one or two Queens players.

It might have been helpful if he had done that before the game as well.

The_Horde
28-08-2012, 09:58 PM
Cairney was supposed to have pace and Deegan was supposed to have guile.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember anybody saying he had pace? All i remember was Fenlon saying he offers us 'something different' in midfield and could get us some goals..


I think perhaps a wee bit of honesty is needed about that particular achievement. We got to the Scottish Cup Final last season without having to play a single team from the top half of the SPL. Which was probably just as well, because when you look at our results last season against the six teams who did finish in the top half of the SPL, we managed the princely total of one win in twenty tries (plus a win on pens v Motherwell).

And when we eventually did have to face a team from the top half of the SPL, things didn't actually turn out very well.

Although, in the previous 2 or 3 seasons under CC and Yogi we had been put of the SC by lower division teams.

Danderhall Hibs
28-08-2012, 10:04 PM
Agreed.

Not to mention his tactics in the Cup Final.

Regardless, the players must shoulder most of the blame. I wasn't there tonight but the reports from those that were, together with the result would suggest the players performed poorly. Now the conundrum for me is - are they just ****** or were they given crap tactics and instructions?

Every player in the squad with 2 years or less on their contract should've been emptied after the Final. As it is the first 11 are ok and will get by but as soon as you change a couple we're back into the dregs. They're not good enough, never have been, never will be.

CallumLaidlaw
28-08-2012, 10:09 PM
And so he should be. Was he interviewed by the Beeb? I switched off after the end of the Livi game as I couldn't stand listening to that dick Preston

Not sure. Picked that up from a journo on twitter

rubber mal
28-08-2012, 10:12 PM
Since there seemed to be some rather heated exchanges on the match thread tonight about whether Fenlon is useless or not, and if so how useless he is, I thought I would offer a little clarity:

Ratings of our last five managers (% performance in all matches against SPL opposition based on 3 pts for a win, 1 for a draw, 0 for a loss)

Collins: 49%
Mixu: 42%
Yogi: 38%
CC: 33%
PF: 37%

So PF is better than Calderwood and only marginally worse than Yogi. Having said that, in presiding over a 0-5 reverse at home to Celtic, an utter humiliation against Hearts in the cup, and now a pumping out of the League Cup by 2nd Division opponents, PF has three ribbons on his chest that none of his predecessors quite managed.

It's not quite that simple though, is it? If your list of percentages proves anything it's that continually changing the manager is not the answer.

Nailrod
28-08-2012, 10:15 PM
That's right, because he's been static in the transfer market.

Major surgery takes time.

Do you (or anybody else know) how many players he's signed since January?

IberianHibernian
28-08-2012, 10:26 PM
Since there seemed to be some rather heated exchanges on the match thread tonight about whether Fenlon is useless or not, and if so how useless he is, I thought I would offer a little clarity:

Ratings of our last five managers (% performance in all matches against SPL opposition based on 3 pts for a win, 1 for a draw, 0 for a loss)

Collins: 49%
Mixu: 42%
Yogi: 38%
CC: 33%
PF: 37%

So PF is better than Calderwood and only marginally worse than Yogi. Having said that, in presiding over a 0-5 reverse at home to Celtic, an utter humiliation against Hearts in the cup, and now a pumping out of the League Cup by 2nd Division opponents, PF has three ribbons on his chest that none of his predecessors quite managed.Each of these 5 managers inherited a weaker squad than his predecessors . Lots of Hibs managers have suffered 0v5 or worse defeats against Celtic and defeats in cups against lower league opposition ( in fact which Hibs managers haven`t ? ) . 15 wins and 12 draws would be 57 points ( 50% in league ) which seems unlikely with Fenlon or any other manager with present squad so beating Mixu`s record might almost be progress though obviously not spectacular .

Hiber-nation
28-08-2012, 10:30 PM
Do you (or anybody else know) how many players he's signed since January?

14 off the top of my head. Might be more.

Kujabi
McPake
Griffiths
Soares
Claros
Doherty
Francomb
Doyle
Clancy
Williams
Kuqi
Deegan
Cairney
Maybury

Emerald
28-08-2012, 10:34 PM
Each of these 5 managers inherited a weaker squad than his predecessors . Lots of Hibs managers have suffered 0v5 or worse defeats against Celtic and defeats in cups against lower league opposition ( in fact which Hibs managers haven`t ? ) . 15 wins and 12 draws would be 57 points ( 50% in league ) which seems unlikely with Fenlon or any other manager with present squad so beating Mixu`s record might almost be progress though obviously not spectacular .

Now I know you're only trying to explain the figures, so I'm not having a pop at you. Although you really should try to get a job in the spin section of the government! :greengrin However, trying to explain how less smelly a joby is, isn't really the point. :greengrin

ScottB
28-08-2012, 10:41 PM
14 off the top of my head. Might be more.

Kujabi
McPake
Griffiths
Soares
Claros
Doherty
Francomb
Doyle
Clancy
Williams
Kuqi
Deegan
Cairney
Maybury

Compared to the signings of any Hibs manager since Mowbray, I'd say his have been among, if not the best as an overall standard. Kujabi and Soares aside, they are all decent. His transfer dealings have been his strongest suit by far.

Famous5forever
28-08-2012, 10:42 PM
14 off the top of my head. Might be more.

Kujabi
McPake
Griffiths
Soares
Claros
Doherty
Francomb
Doyle
Clancy
Williams
Kuqi
Deegan
Cairney
Maybury

If don teflon the misor had backed Paddy with real cash we would not be in this mess.:pfgwa

ScottB
28-08-2012, 10:45 PM
If don teflon the misor had backed Paddy with real cash we would not be in this mess.:pfgwa

So, 14 players is a lack of investment is it? What exactly do you expect?!

Captain Trips
28-08-2012, 10:52 PM
Not up to the task imo.

ArmadaleHibs
28-08-2012, 10:53 PM
The only mistake pat made today was too many changes. For the first time in two or three seasons we've made a little progress with back to back wins and a strong bond of confidence within the dressing room. Football floats along nicely on confidence and we should have kept this momentum up with exactly the same starters as Saturday.

Big mistake bringing in the players he did tonight from the start. BIG mistake and he has to take sole responsibility for that.

I've just got back from Dumfries and when I arrived at the ground tonight and saw the starting 11 me my dad and sister all said we will struggle.

Our mini confidence bubble is burst and we've shown tonight we have ONE starting 11 and dross on the peripherals.

God please help us Saturday.

Emerald
28-08-2012, 10:56 PM
The only mistake pat made today was too many changes. For the first time in two or three seasons we've made a little progress with back to back wins and a strong bond of confidence within the dressing room. Football floats along nicely on confidence and we should have kept this momentum up with exactly the same starters as Saturday.

Big mistake bringing in the players he did tonight from the start. BIG mistake and he has to take sole responsibility for that.

I've just got back from Dumfries and when I arrived at the ground tonight and saw the starting 11 me my dad and sister all said we will struggle.

Our mini confidence bubble is burst and we've shown tonight we have ONE starting 11 and dross on the peripherals.

God please help us Saturday.

I don't think his papers will be through on time. :rolleyes:

Booked4Being-Ugly
28-08-2012, 11:03 PM
I don't think his papers will be through on time. :rolleyes:Not Hibs class!

HibeeBigFly
28-08-2012, 11:16 PM
Not up to the task imo.

Sadly I completely agree!

JIm
28-08-2012, 11:17 PM
Just back from Palmerston and i'm back to being a hater. :greengrin

jacomo
28-08-2012, 11:20 PM
I'm done talking about Fenlon. His backers say he knows what needs doing, but he's been dealt a bad hand and it will take time.

Fine. Just get on and do it then. Result and performances, that's what we need.

ehf
28-08-2012, 11:23 PM
Not up to the task imo.

That's been evident since January. Should have been dunted after the SCF debacle but the ever-downward spiral continues.

Emerald
28-08-2012, 11:36 PM
I'm done talking about Fenlon. His backers say he knows what needs doing, but he's been dealt a bad hand and it will take time.

Fine. Just get on and do it then. Result and performances, that's what we need.

:agree:

And maybe not changing a very fragile winning eleven that could have made progress in the cup that we badly needed, for money and confidence. I'm not a Fenlon fan but I am desperate for any manager to make progress with Hibs (sick of it going downwards). This result and performance has done him no favours after the debacle of the cup final, he is NOT learning by the looks of things. More time or more rope to hang himself with, that is the question? I hope it's the former (time will tell)?

Baldy Foghorn
28-08-2012, 11:47 PM
Yes PF made changes tonight, but that team should have been more than enough to see us through.....Pity the 10 starting outfield players and 3 subs were absolutely rank rotten.........Disgusted by tonight....

LeighLoyal
28-08-2012, 11:50 PM
He's made himself a laughing stock by claiming he'd win the trophy. Is he now backing QOTS to go all the way? They won't want his endorsement!

Baldy Foghorn
29-08-2012, 12:02 AM
He's made himself a laughing stock by claiming he'd win the trophy. Is he now backing QOTS to go all the way? They won't want his endorsement!

Our players did the damage......

Kato
29-08-2012, 12:14 AM
He's made himself a laughing stock by claiming he'd win the trophy.

Where did he say that?

NatureBoy
29-08-2012, 07:18 AM
I can see both side of the great Fenlon debate, since he's came in he's not exactly set the heather a light BUT for my there's been enough positive signs over the past few weeks to indicate he has some idea of what's needing done.
Last night was terrible and Fenlon did make mistakes as every manager does but I think it's too early to hang him out to dry.
He's a guy who is clearly passionate and wants to be here, so lets just wait and see how he does over the next few months.

jacomo
29-08-2012, 07:18 AM
:agree:

And maybe not changing a very fragile winning eleven that could have made progress in the cup that we badly needed, for money and confidence. I'm not a Fenlon fan but I am desperate for any manager to make progress with Hibs (sick of it going downwards). This result and performance has done him no favours after the debacle of the cup final, he is NOT learning by the looks of things. More time or more rope to hang himself with, that is the question? I hope it's the former (time will tell)?

Maybe, maybe not. This cup tie was also the last match before the transfer window closes, I do wonder if that had something to do with the selection tonight?

I also think PF needs to improve, but it would be churlish to deny the very real signs of progress he has made. He's our manager, I think all we can do is back him and hope it comes good.

Bayern Bru
29-08-2012, 07:25 AM
Where did he say that?

Tuesday's Evening News. Sports lead story.

matty_f
29-08-2012, 07:26 AM
Even the best managers get things wrong from time to time. Pat got it wrong last night but that doesn't mean he isn't up to the job.

He'll be measured on his response though, and on how the team bounces back from what is undeniably a set-back.

Heedersnvolleys
29-08-2012, 07:33 AM
Even the best managers get things wrong from time to time. Pat got it wrong last night but that doesn't mean he isn't up to the job.

He'll be measured on his response though, and on how the team bounces back from what is undeniably a set-back.

He has got it wrong 3 times out of his last 6 competitive games. And him admitting it every time does not make it better.

Hibstrooper
29-08-2012, 07:35 AM
Changing the manager again isn't the answer. I think Fenlon has brought in the right characters and I think our starting 11 is miles better than 12 months ago.

What is obvious is we don't have depth, we needed to give some players some competitive game time as we won't go through the season using just 14 players and this was his best opportunity to do that.

Maybe so many changes was a mistake however he's already shown he can learn from his mistakes.

Gettin' Auld
29-08-2012, 07:37 AM
Where did he say that?

He didn't say we would win the cup, he said we can win the cup.
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hibs/pat-fenlon-believes-hibs-can-win-league-cup-1-2492469

HFC 0-7
29-08-2012, 07:39 AM
Fenlon's league record is actually worse than calderwoods. At the start of the season Fenlons league record was even worse than Jim Duffys but the 2 games he won has meant he now has a better record. Last nights result was a shocker and it is fenlons fault because he, with the time he has spent with these players, should have known that he would struggle to win with that team selection. this isnt the first time his tactical and team selections have ben questioned either.

Yes he inherited a bad squad from CC but he has made some poor signings himself which has added to the problem. He doesnt have a better record than calderwood yet either so he has to take some blame for not getting the squad playing better quicker.

His signings are a mixed bag IMO, some good but some havent been good and others the jury is out. With the squad a think as it is we will be forced to play a team selection like last nights later in the season which wont be good. For me Fenlon gets pass marks overall, but only just, there are still a lot of question marks which should get answered over the next few games IMO.

PeeJay
29-08-2012, 07:46 AM
Changing the manager again isn't the answer. I think Fenlon has brought in the right characters and I think our starting 11 is miles better than 12 months ago.

What is obvious is we don't have depth, we needed to give some players some competitive game time as we won't go through the season using just 14 players and this was his best opportunity to do that.

Maybe so many changes was a mistake however he's already shown he can learn from his mistakes.

While you make a valid point I don't think we should resort to the "we don't have any depth in the squad" as an excuse for last night's debacle. The lack of any "depth" may be a significant factor in relation to other SPL clubs, who may have squads of similar levels, but surely not with regard to a Second division team? That doesn't wash with me: our 1st team squad should be capable of beating a 2nd division team.

Not convinced he learns from his mistakes - this was a vital competition for our club - as has been stated elsewhere - in terms of feel-good factor, income generated from a good cup run and a chance to actually win something. Seems to me he made a major mistake in not treating it seriously enough or failing to get the message through to the team he picked and sent out to do the job.

alexedwards
29-08-2012, 07:59 AM
He didn't say we would win the cup, he said we can win the cup.
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hibs/pat-fenlon-believes-hibs-can-win-league-cup-1-2492469

Extreme naivety falling into that trap - one round at a time is the stock answer.

mcfly
29-08-2012, 08:10 AM
With a cup record as bad as ours and a team with no quality back up we cannot afford to rest anyone.

Poor management in my opinion, very naive. 2 ex hearts players as management would have had qos fired up to beat us.

Not good enough and I'm sick of apologies.

Chance to redeem yourself after may and you failed miserably.

We need better players and fast.

Nailrod
29-08-2012, 08:26 AM
Each of these 5 managers inherited a weaker squad than his predecessors . Lots of Hibs managers have suffered 0v5 or worse defeats against Celtic and defeats in cups against lower league opposition ( in fact which Hibs managers haven`t ? ) . 15 wins and 12 draws would be 57 points ( 50% in league ) which seems unlikely with Fenlon or any other manager with present squad so beating Mixu`s record might almost be progress though obviously not spectacular .

1. I've been supporting Hibs for 50 years, and I don't recall us losing five-nil at ER to Celtic (or anybody else) in all that time.

2. There have been so many cup beatings from lower league teams in recent years that I kind of struggle to remember them all, but I think that until yesterday they were all First Division sides.

3. Over the past five years we've suffered humiliating thrashings from a large number of non-OF clubs (Hamilton, St Johnstone, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Dundee United, and Motherwell spring to mind). But until the cup final we had managed to limit ourselves to only being beaten, rather than thrashed, by Hearts.

Famous5forever
29-08-2012, 08:29 AM
Livid about tonight but we need to give the guy time. Window closes on Friday, lets hope he brings in a bit of pace and guile to the midfield.

We need at least another 3 players in i am not convinced Paddy is the answer but he does need more time

jdships
29-08-2012, 08:44 AM
I'm done talking about Fenlon. His backers say he knows what needs doing, but he's been dealt a bad hand and it will take time.

Fine. Just get on and do it then. Result and performances, that's what we need.

Good post :thumbsup:
I have resisted getting involved in the debate re PF as the man deserves a chance to put things right .
However having seen three of the four games played I would suggest that " The jury is still out on PF " Time will as always tell.:greengrin
What one makes of last nights result I'm not quite sure .
Where does the blame lie ?
A with the manger and his staff ?
B with the players ?
Personally think it was a mixture of both and we must just move on ASAP .
Unfortunately Saturday will now be a bigger test than ever given the dent to confidence from last night.

:flag:

Baldy Foghorn
29-08-2012, 08:46 AM
1. I've been supporting Hibs for 50 years, and I don't recall us losing five-nil at ER to Celtic (or anybody else) in all that time.

2. There have been so many cup beatings from lower league teams in recent years that I kind of struggle to remember them all, but I think that until yesterday they were all First Division sides.

3. Over the past five years we've suffered humiliating thrashings from a large number of non-OF clubs (Hamilton, St Johnstone, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Dundee United, and Motherwell spring to mind). But until the cup final we had managed to limit ourselves to only being beaten, rather than thrashed, by Hearts.

We lost 5-0 at home to Celtic, I am sure it was the game after we beat them on penalties in the cup.....They wore that mint coloured away kit....Sorry if it comes over as being pedantic, but I remember it.....

Stevie Reid
29-08-2012, 08:54 AM
We lost 5-0 at home to Celtic, I am sure it was the game after we beat them on penalties in the cup.....They wore that mint coloured away kit....Sorry if it comes over as being pedantic, but I remember it.....

Did Aberdeen not win the league by beating us 5-0 at ER in he early 80s too?

Baldy Foghorn
29-08-2012, 08:58 AM
Did Aberdeen not win the league by beating us 5-0 at ER in he early 80s too?

They did indeed......

Stevie Reid
29-08-2012, 08:59 AM
Yes PF made changes tonight, but that team should have been more than enough to see us through.....Pity the 10 starting outfield players and 3 subs were absolutely rank rotten.........Disgusted by tonight....


Even the best managers get things wrong from time to time. Pat got it wrong last night but that doesn't mean he isn't up to the job.

He'll be measured on his response though, and on how the team bounces back from what is undeniably a set-back.

:agree:

I like Fenlon and am prepared to keep faith in him, but last night was a huge set back - however, I have no issues with his team selection (can't comment on tactics as I wasn't there) and those eleven players should have been good enough to beat a second division team.

So much was bad about last night's result - financially it is bad obviously, but also all the early season feel good factor that we’ve engineered the last two games has well and truly gone. If we lose our next two league games it will be 3 defeats in a row, with people less likely to come back to ER and the pressure back on us there. We are also stuck with the likes of O’Hanlon, Kujabi and Galbraith draining us of cash, but contributing nothing – Booth on 5 year deal looks a huge mistake at the moment also.

matty_f
29-08-2012, 09:00 AM
Did celtc not beat us by 5 or so after sevco went into administration?

Famous5forever
29-08-2012, 09:17 AM
:agree:

I like Fenlon and am prepared to keep faith in him, but last night was a huge set back - however, I have no issues with his team selection (can't comment on tactics as I wasn't there) and those eleven players should have been good enough to beat a second division team.

So much was bad about last night's result - financially it is bad obviously, but also all the early season feel good factor that we’ve engineered the last two games has well and truly gone. If we lose our next two league games it will be 3 defeats in a row, with people less likely to come back to ER and the pressure back on us there. We are also stuck with the likes of O’Hanlon, Kujabi and Galbraith draining us of cash, but contributing nothing – Booth on 5 year deal looks a huge mistake at the moment also.


These players are not good enough and dross like these players should be emptied ASAP and whoever gave Booth a 5 year deal should be put in a sanitarium, these sort of contracts are almost non existant unless you are a Robin Van Percy type of player.

Last nights result should be a wake up call and i for one am expecting a good result and performance in our next game.

Stevie Reid
29-08-2012, 09:24 AM
These players are not good enough and dross like these players should be emptied ASAP and whoever gave Booth a 5 year deal should be put in a sanitarium, these sort of contracts are almost non existant unless you are a Robin Van Percy type of player.

Last nights result should be a wake up call and i for one am expecting a good result and performance in our next game.

That clown Calderwood is responsible for the signing of O'Hanlon, as well as extending the contracts of Galbraith and Booth. Pat has to take the rap for Kujabi - I thought he brought decent balance to the back four for a time last season, but didn't think he would ever recover from the cup final, and that would seem to be the case.

bawheid
29-08-2012, 09:28 AM
I like Fenlon. I think there have been significant signs of improvement since he took over. Last night's team selection was foolish though.

I'm not convinced Hibs have leaders throughout the club. Senior Management need to make him aware - in no uncertain terms - that performances and results like those last night are not acceptable.

I don't think enough pressure is placed on managers from above. They're allowed to amble on doing whatever they like until all of a sudden - usually on the morning of the AGM - they're dragged into Petrie's office.

Famous5forever
29-08-2012, 09:36 AM
That clown Calderwood is responsible for the signing of O'Hanlon, as well as extending the contracts of Galbraith and Booth. Pat has to take the rap for Kujabi - I thought he brought decent balance to the back four for a time last season, but didn't think he would ever recover from the cup final, and that would seem to be the case.

I Dont think the liking to Roberto Carlos that he told us did him any favours and after that free kick he took well the least said the better i doubt he will play many games for us again any idea what length contract he is on ?

Thomson
29-08-2012, 09:39 AM
Right. If we had gotten to the semi final and beaten by someone like celtic, or even a dundee united or motherwell, we would be unhappy, but we would know that we had done a good job to get there. The fact we got to the final, in my opinion, was a burden on us. We were never destined for cup glory that year and the fact that it was against them, of course it makes it worse for the team, the fans and fenlon. We should not have expected anything other than defeat in the final. I think the defeat has got a lot of fans that, otherwise would not have assumed we were going to win, hopefull in the fact that we were playing our rivals in the fianl of a cup, let alone the scottish cup. Last night was a bad result. O'hanlon has never been a player and for those who still doubt mcpake, you should now have your answer that we do need him, and he brings an excellence to the defence that we have been missing since Jones/Hogg combination. I have not seen kuqi yet and from what i'm hearning of last night, he is still very unfit. We can't forgive the management and team that we've had over the past 5/6 years, but we can forget it. We need to start afresh, along with the team and management, us fans must take our opinions back to square one again, and not hold the grudges from previous, to continue to the team/management we have now.

Stevie Reid
29-08-2012, 09:42 AM
I Dont think the liking to Roberto Carlos that he told us did him any favours and after that free kick he took well the least said the better i doubt he will play many games for us again any idea what length contract he is on ?

Til the end of the season IIRC.

scoopyboy
29-08-2012, 10:00 AM
1. I've been supporting Hibs for 50 years, and I don't recall us losing five-nil at ER to Celtic (or anybody else) in all that time.2. There have been so many cup beatings from lower league teams in recent years that I kind of struggle to remember them all, but I think that until yesterday they were all First Division sides.

3. Over the past five years we've suffered humiliating thrashings from a large number of non-OF clubs (Hamilton, St Johnstone, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Dundee United, and Motherwell spring to mind). But until the cup final we had managed to limit ourselves to only being beaten, rather than thrashed, by Hearts.

I can think of two off the top of my head.

One in 2012.

The other with the likes of Brian McClair, Mo Johnston etc playing and scoring.

Hibees07
29-08-2012, 10:03 AM
Too many on Hibs.Net trying to defend Fenlon. His record is shocking and he has presided over some of the most painful defeats known to any Hibs fan, his continual blaming of players is really getting on my nerves, he is the one paid to sign the right players & get them suitably fit, organised & motivated. If he cannot do this then he needs to move out and let someone in who can.

I have posted before (probably several times) that he hasn't developed a single player at Easter Road and that is why we have no young players capable of getting in a p1ss poor team.

I have nothing against the guy and I had hoped he would turn things around but I just cannot see that happening.

I can only pray that we actually sign a player who is fit, can control & pass a ball & has at least the ability to run faster than an average full back.

joe breezy
29-08-2012, 10:08 AM
i back the manager for the time being...

Certainly not changing my mind over last night's result however embarrassing...

Stevie Reid
29-08-2012, 10:13 AM
Had we won last night Fenlon would have had as many wins in 33 matches as Calderwood managed in 49 -2 tough away games coming up, we'll see how long it takes now.

Still behind him, but big tests lie ahead.

Nailrod
29-08-2012, 10:16 AM
I can think of two off the top of my head.

One in 2012.

The other with the likes of Brian McClair, Mo Johnston etc playing and scoring.

I already referenced the 2012 game. My whole point was that it represented a new low in our 5-year decline.

For strict accuracy, it appears that Aberdeen beat us 5-0 twice at ER in the early 1980s

Kato
29-08-2012, 10:17 AM
He didn't say we would win the cup, he said we can win the cup.
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hibs/pat-fenlon-believes-hibs-can-win-league-cup-1-2492469

I knew that's what he said. Was just wondering if the brainboxes above could actually read, or perhaps they just enjoy twisting words and telling lies.

Northernhibee
29-08-2012, 10:18 AM
Too many on Hibs.Net trying to defend Fenlon. His record is shocking and he has presided over some of the most painful defeats known to any Hibs fan, his continual blaming of players is really getting on my nerves, he is the one paid to sign the right players & get them suitably fit, organised & motivated. If he cannot do this then he needs to move out and let someone in who can.

Rome wasn't built in a day. In the most important competition we've had two wins and a draw out of four games. Big improvement. We'll get the occasional night like last night under any manager because we're rebuilding from scratch. As for the "too many trying to defend Fenlon", I'm sorry I don't have the same hysterical opinion as others.

I have posted before (probably several times) that he hasn't developed a single player at Easter Road and that is why we have no young players capable of getting in a p1ss poor team.

Lewis Stevenson, Paul Hanlon, David Wotherspoon, Leigh Griffiths, Ross Caldwell, Danny Handling, Sam Stanton

I have nothing against the guy and I had hoped he would turn things around but I just cannot see that happening.

Yes you do, and of course you don't

I can only pray that we actually sign a player who is fit, can control & pass a ball & has at least the ability to run faster than an average full back. McPake, Cairney, Deegan, Clancy, Maybury, Williams have all so far shown themselves to be worthy additions at SPL level.

In a total rebuild, we will get the odd night like last night. It's poor, yes, but it's a long journey and we will get there, but this place over-reacts to an almost comedic level.

Hibees07
29-08-2012, 10:37 AM
In a total rebuild, we will get the odd night like last night. It's poor, yes, but it's a long journey and we will get there, but this place over-reacts to an almost comedic level.


Northern, I love your optimism and hopefully you can come back at the end of the season (if Fenlon lasts that long) and say 'I told you so'.

I could argue all day long with you regarding your comments on my original post but it won't make any difference to either of our view points.

Keep up your positivity as mine went years ago. :aok:

NAE NOOKIE
29-08-2012, 10:48 AM
A couple of things to address before I get on to PF.

From his performances in the first half a season he played Booth was worth every second of a 5 year deal, coz it looked like he could end up a million pound player .......... its sad what appears to be happening now.

Football is a cruel business ... Danny Galbraith should be emptied now along with our other duds.

Pat Fenlon:

I posted on another thread that one of the things I liked about PF was that he was prepared to admit when he had made a mistake and take steps to rectify things the next chance he got.

I think it was Winston Churchill who said about the Americans. " They will always do the right thing. They will try everything else first though"

The Americans can get away with that ........ I doubt PF will. Time to cut out the mistakes Pat.

Billy Whizz
29-08-2012, 10:52 AM
Was at the game last night and to say we were out-played would be an under statement. All we did was either kick the ball long from Williams or let the defenders knock it up the field! We were completely outplayed in midfield (did we have a midfield last night?) and powder puff up front. Did the manager set out these tactics........

All the passing and movement came from Queens who thoroughly deserved their victory!
We went in 2-0 at half time and I thought he'll be positive for the 2nd half and put on the 2 strikers he had on the bench, Doyle and Caldwell. We needed to score at least 2 to get back in the game. He puts on a left back and a midfielder who doesn't have the greatest scoring record. He should have gone 3 at the back and added at least another striker and probably taken off Kuqi.

A lot of the blame is being aimed at Kujabi, Booth and O'Hanlon who were probably not as match fit as the others.


What I would like to know is where were Clancy, Hanlon, Cairney, Deegan, Claros and Griffiths last night?

Northernhibee
29-08-2012, 11:01 AM
Northern, I love your optimism and hopefully you can come back at the end of the season (if Fenlon lasts that long) and say 'I told you so'.

I could argue all day long with you regarding your comments on my original post but it won't make any difference to either of our view points.

Keep up your positivity as mine went years ago. :aok:

To be honest, it's not even positivity, it's reality.

If we keep emptying managers after 2-3 bad results, we'll be through the equivalent of the entire population of China by the end of the decade.

This is the biggest rebuild of the club we've seen in many years, we will get some shocking results. Man Utd have been caught out against lower league teams, other SPL teams last night got caught out as well. Embarrasing, but something that lessons need to be learned from and we move on stronger.

scuttle
29-08-2012, 11:01 AM
If im correct ten out of the fourteen players to feature last night were signed or loaned by Fenlon. He has around three days to bring in players to enhance what now is HIS team.I think the honeymoon period is now well and truly over.Pat Fenlon your time starts now

scott_hfc1875
29-08-2012, 11:21 AM
Some people need to have a word with themselves, killie and county were beaten last night it happens ,it honestly seems like people expect too much too soon because we've signed a few players , constant negativity on this site

GraniteCityHibs
29-08-2012, 11:27 AM
I like Fenlon. I think there have been significant signs of improvement since he took over. Last night's team selection was foolish though.

I'm not convinced Hibs have leaders throughout the club. Senior Management need to make him aware - in no uncertain terms - that performances and results like those last night are not acceptable.

I don't think enough pressure is placed on managers from above. They're allowed to amble on doing whatever they like until all of a sudden - usually on the morning of the AGM - they're dragged into Petrie's office.

And this commment is based on what?? Some inside knowledge on the internal workings at ER/EM?? Or just pure speculation and conjecture?


On topic:
Last night's result was poor but that happens in football. Nothing new there.

In my opinion, Fenlon's job HAS to be safe for at least another 18 months. That's 3 more transfer windows to ship out those not required/not wanted and get in more of the McPake/Griffiths quality player that we need long term rather than on loan.

Getting rid of Pat and having yet another turn over of squad and backroom staff will only put us further back in our re-building process.

We've seen improvement in the league and back-to-back wins which has put a bit of positvity back into the side and the fans. Last night should be a wake up call to a team that maybe rested on their laurels a bit and got caught out.

Baby steps. I'm afraid we need to be in this for the long haul and give Pat Fenlon and the players our 100% backing.

lobster
29-08-2012, 11:29 AM
There's clearly merit in both sides of the argument. Thing is, we need to back him even if we think he may not be up to the job in the long run. It would be farcical to sack him now. What I'd like to see is a clear declaration from the club what exactly the job is. And I can't help thinking it would be great that in an age of managerialism managers were subject to the same performance management standards that they set for employees in the real world - 50% wins or out over a season! This would of course mean that we would be emptying even more than we are but it might be old school motivational. Maybe I'm just searching for the lost spirit of Eddie Turnbull in the modern game.

Good performance at Parkhead and it's all rosy again! :flag:

Danderhall Hibs
29-08-2012, 11:30 AM
Some people need to have a word with themselves, killie and county were beaten last night it happens ,it honestly seems like people expect too much too soon because we've signed a few players , constant negativity on this site

He's been here a year, couldn't get better performaces out of Calderwood's team. Now he's signed his "own team" we still can't expect to perform and beat a 2nd Division side?

Deary me - talk about setting the bar low.

GraniteCityHibs
29-08-2012, 11:32 AM
Some people need to have a word with themselves, killie and county were beaten last night it happens ,it honestly seems like people expect too much too soon because we've signed a few players , constant negativity on this site

:top marks

:fenlonto the neggy squad!!

blackpoolhibs
29-08-2012, 11:33 AM
Some people need to have a word with themselves, killie and county were beaten last night it happens ,it honestly seems like people expect too much too soon because we've signed a few players , constant negativity on this site

What a huge pile of steaming sheite, this site has been very positive over the last 3 weeks. We took 7 points from 9, and had done very well.

Although with this being Hibs we are talking about, they have to make sure any positivity is well and truly hammered into the ground, and right on time they never disappoint.

Unless of course last night was a good thing, and something we should all be happy about? :rolleyes:

silverhibee
29-08-2012, 11:37 AM
Agreed.

Not to mention his tactics in the Cup Final.

Regardless, the players must shoulder most of the blame. I wasn't there tonight but the reports from those that were, together with the result would suggest the players performed poorly. Now the conundrum for me is - are they just ****** or were they given crap tactics and instructions?


Am going to say that the manager got it wrong like he did in the final, should have been the same team that won 2-0 on Saturday that started last night, unless we had injuries but i haven't heard anything or read that there were players struggling to make the game, even though i have this nagging feeling that maybe McPake may have done something to his back on Saturday when he landed awkwardly on it that he wasn't even on the bench last night.

Like you J i wasn't at the game either, Sparky missed a couple of sitters that if he scored may have changed the game, but from what i heard from the radio QOTS missed a couple of good chances too, by all accounts they deserved to win the game from what we have heard, billy Doodds must have reminded us about 20 times that they were worthy winners and how poor Hibs were, you know how it goes on open all mics when Hibs get beat, the giggles in the background, smugness when talking about how bad we were from the yam bbc crew.

Your conundrum, :greengrin, yes most are ****** and our manager has shown in the past that he can get his tactics wrong at the most important games, Final and last night is not good enough, we were told after a Q&A with Don Rod that we would never roll over and be bullied by the yams again or something like that, yet we get pumped by QOTS from the 2nd division and at the first round we are out of the cup at the first game. Joke.

The manager quite rightly put his hands up and said he got it wrong and he was to blame for the defeat up against D. Utd in our first game, i don't think he will be to quick to say the same again about last night that he got it wrong by making to many changes, he will blame the players for this one, he will know the folk upstairs won't be happy at being knocked out of the cup in the first round and Hibs losing out to a good cup run and some much needed money now not coming in to the club.

scott_hfc1875
29-08-2012, 11:38 AM
What a huge pile of steaming sheite, this site has been very positive over the last 3 weeks. We took 7 points from 9, and had done very well.

Although with this being Hibs we are talking about, they have to make sure any positivity is well and truly hammered into the ground, and right on time they never disappoint.

Unless of course last night was a good thing, and something we should all be happy about? :rolleyes:

of course its not but upsets happen all the time that's football , it just seems like we're one step away from the fenlon out stuff already

blackpoolhibs
29-08-2012, 11:46 AM
of course its not but upsets happen all the time that's football , it just seems like we're one step away from the fenlon out stuff already

Not from me you are not, but we treated the supporters badly last night those who went and those who did not. They are not interested in another upset in the history of Hibernian, just why we have witnessed another one?

cabbageandribs1875
29-08-2012, 11:51 AM
Some people need to have a word with themselves, killie and county were beaten last night it happens ,it honestly seems like people expect too much too soon because we've signed a few players , constant negativity on this site



Ross co made nine changes to their team and got exactly what they deserved, killie had five players out with injury, we didn't have any injuries and should have played a settled team, even big teams like barcelona/Man U/Hertz team performances suffer to an extent if their team is tinkered with too much

patlowe
29-08-2012, 11:51 AM
Firstly, Queen of the South deserve a bit of credit here. They've started the season incredibly well and it may be that they are destined for a higher level than they are currently playing.

However, putting out a weakened side was madness when we are so desperate to build up a bit of momentum and confidence. I honestly think PF may have put out that team in an attempt to send a message to the board.

scott_hfc1875
29-08-2012, 11:52 AM
Not from me you are not, but we treated the supporters badly last night those who went and those who did not. They are not interested in another upset in the history of Hibernian, just why we have witnessed another one?

mostly because we're still stuck with a few players who aren't good enough , rome wasn't built in a day its going to take time to have a full squad of capable players, we just need to give the manager that time

Captain Trips
29-08-2012, 11:53 AM
of course its not but upsets happen all the time that's football , it just seems like we're one step away from the fenlon out stuff already

Shocks do happen but when you pick players in key areas that have failed to deliver then imo it is less of A shock. PF is to me looking like Calderwood the 2nd. He has done little to ease doubts that have been in place since January.

silverhibee
29-08-2012, 11:54 AM
So, 14 players is a lack of investment is it? What exactly do you expect?!


And in that time how many players have left the club.

500miles
29-08-2012, 12:06 PM
And in that time how many players have left the club.

That doesn't matter. The squad was bloated as things were, and all teams have had to cut the size of the first team.

silverhibee
29-08-2012, 12:18 PM
Yes PF made changes tonight, but that team should have been more than enough to see us through.....Pity the 10 starting outfield players and 3 subs were absolutely rank rotten.........Disgusted by tonight....


But why did he feel the need to make 4 changes to the team that won on Saturday and the week before that, he can't use the excuse that players need resting, we have only played a handful of games since the season started, he should have played and kept the team that started on Saturday for last night, they were just starting to gel a bit and the manager goes and makes 4 changes, keep the winning team on the park and let them get used to each other and get used to winning games instead of chopping the team about for what was always going to be a tricky tie for us, tough on the fringe players if they are not getting a game because the team that played in the last two games won them and are doing well and should have kept there places for last nights game.

So to me the manager got it wrong last night, but he won't put his hands up for this defeat that's for sure.

Hibs7
29-08-2012, 12:22 PM
Ehm did you see the team Liverpool put out against the Jumbos last week, they still managed to win. Not exactly the same but similar.

silverhibee
29-08-2012, 12:23 PM
Maybe, maybe not. This cup tie was also the last match before the transfer window closes, I do wonder if that had something to do with the selection tonight?

I also think PF needs to improve, but it would be churlish to deny the very real signs of progress he has made. He's our manager, I think all we can do is back him and hope it comes good.


I F***ing hope not, he can go play Russian roulette somewhere else if he thought last night was the right night to prove a point to the board about needing players, if that's what you meant. :greengrin

silverhibee
29-08-2012, 12:27 PM
Changing the manager again isn't the answer. I think Fenlon has brought in the right characters and I think our starting 11 is miles better than 12 months ago.

What is obvious is we don't have depth, we needed to give some players some competitive game time as we won't go through the season using just 14 players and this was his best opportunity to do that.

Maybe so many changes was a mistake however he's already shown he can learn from his mistakes.


And they should have all started last night.

silverhibee
29-08-2012, 12:28 PM
He didn't say we would win the cup, he said we can win the cup.
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hibs/pat-fenlon-believes-hibs-can-win-league-cup-1-2492469

Well we cannie now. :greengrin

JimBHibees
29-08-2012, 12:29 PM
But why did he feel the need to make 4 changes to the team that won on Saturday and the week before that, he can't use the excuse that players need resting, we have only played a handful of games since the season started, he should have played and kept the team that started on Saturday for last night, they were just starting to gel a bit and the manager goes and makes 4 changes, keep the winning team on the park and let them get used to each other and get used to winning games instead of chopping the team about for what was always going to be a tricky tie for us, tough on the fringe players if they are not getting a game because the team that played in the last two games won them and are doing well and should have kept there places for last nights game.

So to me the manager got it wrong last night, but he won't put his hands up for this defeat that's for sure.

I agree way too many if McPake had a knock we should have kept the same defence as Saturday with SOH in. Only other change I could understand was maybe putting another forward as happened with Kuqi. For Booth and Kujabi to be played down the same side along with SOH seems to be crazy. This of course is all in hindsight and on another day we probably would have won with that team however QOS were in good form and we should have known they would have been well up for it. It was a gamble too far IMO.

The more I think about it the more is sounds like the inclusion of SOH, Booth and Kujabi was to try and sell them before Friday. If that is the case PF deserves all the flak for yesterday.

Dashing Bob S
29-08-2012, 12:40 PM
It would probably be the worst ever decision to change managers now, and we've made some terrible ones in the last few years. Yes, the QOS result and performance were poor and unacceptable, but over the piece we have made improvement this season. Let's build on that but be prepared to take the odd slap on the way. We're not world beaters - yet.

(Did you enjoy that dramatic, but optimistic conclusion there?)

JimBHibees
29-08-2012, 12:43 PM
I F***ing hope not, he can go play Russian roulette somewhere else if he thought last night was the right night to prove a point to the board about needing players, if that's what you meant. :greengrin

May have also been an attempt to sell players.

silverhibee
29-08-2012, 12:44 PM
To be honest, it's not even positivity, it's reality.

If we keep emptying managers after 2-3 bad results, we'll be through the equivalent of the entire population of China by the end of the decade.

This is the biggest rebuild of the club we've seen in many years, we will get some shocking results. Man Utd have been caught out against lower league teams, other SPL teams last night got caught out as well. Embarrasing, but something that lessons need to be learned from and we move on stronger.


I seem to hear that quote being trotted out every season now on here, its becoming boring. :aok:

Hibercelona
29-08-2012, 12:47 PM
I just came on here after last night hoping that people had calmed down and regained back a bit of perspective. Silly me. :rolleyes:

We must be the the only football fans in the world that change our perspective so dramatically after each and every result. We're even sad enough to resort to stats that really don't mean anything at this point.

The current view is "Pat isn't the man for the job". But I can guarantee that if we get a result at the weekend, he'll suddenly become "the right man" again.

It's one of the most cringeworthy elements of our fan base.

JimBHibees
29-08-2012, 12:55 PM
I just came on here after last night hoping that people had calmed down and regained back a bit of perspective. Silly me. :rolleyes:

We must be the the only football fans in the world that change our perspective so dramatically after each and every result. We're even sad enough to resort to stats that really don't mean anything at this point.

The current view is "Pat isn't the man for the job". But I can guarantee that if we get a result at the weekend, he'll suddenly become "the right man" again.

It's one of the most cringeworthy elements of our fan base.

I dont think that is right and that many are saying that however last nights result was a shocker and given the starting line up he put out and the performance he got he should be getting criticised for it

blackpoolhibs
29-08-2012, 12:56 PM
I seem to hear that quote being trotted out every season now on here, its becoming boring. :aok:

I agree, if we still need major surgery, and the rebuilding job is still huge, how many more players do we need to win a game against Queen of the ****in south? :rolleyes:

silverhibee
29-08-2012, 12:58 PM
May have also been an attempt to sell players.


Well it back fired big time, there will be no takers for that lot that played last night, we are probably stuck with them, we can't even pay them of as we would need them for back up if we got injuries and suspensions to our first 11.

That's a big worry, a couple of injuries to key players(ie Sparky & McPake) during this season and we are in big bother.

ScottB
29-08-2012, 12:58 PM
And in that time how many players have left the club.

A lot. Almost all of them were useless too.

In the economic circumstances of the SPL these days, plus our own losses in recent years, I think trying to say that Fenlon isn't doing well because he hasn't been backed, as the post I was replying to originally did, is a total nonsense. He's signed almost an entire first team and subs bench worth of players across two windows. Much of the current first choice starting line up are 'his' players etc.

jacomo
29-08-2012, 01:03 PM
Firstly, Queen of the South deserve a bit of credit here. They've started the season incredibly well and it may be that they are destined for a higher level than they are currently playing.

However, putting out a weakened side was madness when we are so desperate to build up a bit of momentum and confidence. I honestly think PF may have put out that team in an attempt to send a message to the board.

If that was the case I think he would have hinted at that in his post-match comments. But instead he emphatically said that the changes he made were not an excuse for defeat.

Can anyone confirm if McPake was rested or advised not to play last night, due to chronic back issues?

silverhibee
29-08-2012, 01:09 PM
That doesn't matter. The squad was bloated as things were, and all teams have had to cut the size of the first team.

That's not what i asked.

Spike Mandela
29-08-2012, 01:10 PM
I just came on here after last night hoping that people had calmed down and regained back a bit of perspective. Silly me. :rolleyes:

We must be the the only football fans in the world that change our perspective so dramatically after each and every result. We're even sad enough to resort to stats that really don't mean anything at this point.

The current view is "Pat isn't the man for the job". But I can guarantee that if we get a result at the weekend, he'll suddenly become "the right man" again.

It's one of the most cringeworthy elements of our fan base.

Is it not simply a case that last nights's result has trampled all over the fans 'optimism springing from two wins in the league.

We have been pretty dire for most of Mr Fenlon's tenure and expectations were pretty low amongst the support surely you can't be too harsh on supporters grasping the St M and St j results and hoping they were signs of improvement and something to , dare I say it , get excited about.

Fenlon really needs to get a performance out the team against Celtic, could even be a loss but just needs a really good team performance. Another embarrassing heavy defeat could dent team confidence affecting morale for rest of season and putting Fenlon under more pressure in his job.

Baldy Foghorn
29-08-2012, 01:22 PM
But why did he feel the need to make 4 changes to the team that won on Saturday and the week before that, he can't use the excuse that players need resting, we have only played a handful of games since the season started, he should have played and kept the team that started on Saturday for last night, they were just starting to gel a bit and the manager goes and makes 4 changes, keep the winning team on the park and let them get used to each other and get used to winning games instead of chopping the team about for what was always going to be a tricky tie for us, tough on the fringe players if they are not getting a game because the team that played in the last two games won them and are doing well and should have kept there places for last nights game.

So to me the manager got it wrong last night, but he won't put his hands up for this defeat that's for sure.

How do you know???

4 changes, big deal....I believe JM was rested pre Saturday......Are you really saying that starting 11 last night should not have been too good for QOS?? On paper the two sides are poles apart.....They all had shockers, every last one of them.....Not sure what PF can do when that happens?

One of the brief comments I saw from PF after last night, was that he was "disgusted" by that, as was every fan who witnessed it.....He was let down badly by his team IMO........

Nailrod
29-08-2012, 01:25 PM
Firstly, Queen of the South deserve a bit of credit here. They've started the season incredibly well and it may be that they are destined for a higher level than they are currently playing.

However, putting out a weakened side was madness when we are so desperate to build up a bit of momentum and confidence. I honestly think PF may have put out that team in an attempt to send a message to the board.

This is now the second time I've seen this line of thought.

Presumably the 'message' was:

"Ok Board. I need more money for better players. So instead of sitting down with you and talking it over, I've decided to put out a weak team who will be eliminated from the League Cup by second division opposition at the first hurdle, thereby depriving the club of the opportunity to earn several hundreds of thousand of pounds that might have been made available to me to buy better players. Let that be a lesson to you! And now, Rod, it's time to dip into your non-existent personal fortune to bail me out..."

Did it occur to you when you made this post that if this genuinely were the explanation for last night's debacle, then Fenlon should be sacked on the spot for being the stupidest man on the planet?

blackpoolhibs
29-08-2012, 01:29 PM
How do you know???

4 changes, big deal....I believe JM was rested pre Saturday......Are you really saying that starting 11 last night should not have been too good for QOS?? On paper the two sides are poles apart.....They all had shockers, every last one of them.....Not sure what PF can do when that happens?

One of the brief comments I saw from PF after last night, was that he was "disgusted" by that, as was every fan who witnessed it.....He was let down badly by his team IMO........

I was disgusted too BF, i was disgusted at hampden and way too many grounds after performances like last nights over the last few seasons.

We get the same excuses manager after manager, and last nights comment from Fenlon about being disgusted just goes over my head like all the rest now.

We have all heard Pat tell us the attitude has to change, the culture has to change, how we wont be a soft touch anymore.

As far as i can see the only thing that never changes is this clubs ability to boot us i the knackers just as we think maybe just maybe we might have turned a corner. :rolleyes:

Baldy Foghorn
29-08-2012, 01:36 PM
I was disgusted too BF, i was disgusted at hampden and way too many grounds after performances like last nights over the last few seasons.

We get the same excuses manager after manager, and last nights comment from Fenlon about being disgusted just goes over my head like all the rest now.

We have all heard Pat tell us the attitude has to change, the culture has to change, how we wont be a soft touch anymore.

As far as i can see the only thing that never changes is this clubs ability to boot us i the knackers just as we think maybe just maybe we might have turned a corner. :rolleyes:

PF knows whats wrong, he can't change it overnight.....

If he turns out to be the wrong manager, then it is time these jokers in the Boardroom, carry the can......

blackpoolhibs
29-08-2012, 01:45 PM
PF knows whats wrong, he can't change it overnight.....

If he turns out to be the wrong manager, then it is time these jokers in the Boardroom, carry the can......

I know whats wrong, playing a weakened team in one of only 2 competitions we have a slim chance of winning.

The players cant be tired yet, fitness surely cant be an issue again? We also have an international week coming up, with no game that weekend.

How many more players must Pat bring in before we can rest 3 or 4 players and compete with Queen of the South?

Baldy Foghorn
29-08-2012, 01:53 PM
I know whats wrong, playing a weakened team in one of only 2 competitions we have a slim chance of winning.

The players cant be tired yet, fitness surely cant be an issue again? We also have an international week coming up, with no game that weekend.

How many more players must Pat bring in before we can rest 3 or 4 players and compete with Queen of the South?

I think the only one rested last night would be McPake....PF shuffled the pack, probably to see what some fringe players had to offer.....Is it really PF's fault when all outfield players have a shocker?

matty_f
29-08-2012, 01:58 PM
I think the only one rested last night would be McPake....PF shuffled the pack, probably to see what some fringe players had to offer.....Is it really PF's fault when all outfield players have a shocker?

Thing is, we had our first clean sheet in God knows how long and instead of giving the defence more time together and the opportunity to build on
that, we changed it and it put us out the cup.

Why not start strong and bring the fringe players in when we're up?

Any momentum we might have had was lost last night. Yes, the players have to take responsibility but the buck stops with the boss.

Baldy Foghorn
29-08-2012, 02:16 PM
Thing is, we had our first clean sheet in God knows how long and instead of giving the defence more time together and the opportunity to build on
that, we changed it and it put us out the cup.

Why not start strong and bring the fringe players in when we're up?

Any momentum we might have had was lost last night. Yes, the players have to take responsibility but the buck stops with the boss.

Im sick of saying this, but the starting 11 should still have been way too strong for QOS....PF made two changes at the break....If we had progressed last night, the changes would never have been mentioned. We lose and the Manager cops the flak.....All players let themselves, PF and the fans down last night. Last night proved we as a squad are miles away from where we should be, we were hardly great at home on Saturday but managed to win....I really don't envy PF's job at all...

Hermit Crab
29-08-2012, 02:30 PM
Im sick of saying this, but the starting 11 should still have been way too strong for QOS....PF made two changes at the break....If we had progressed last night, the changes would never have been mentioned. We lose and the Manager cops the flak.....All players let themselves, PF and the fans down last night. Last night proved we as a squad are miles away from where we should be, we were hardly great at home on Saturday but managed to win....I really don't envy PF's job at all...


Players 100% to blame, they came thinking they only had to turn up but Queens showed them up for what they really are big time. Can't pin this on Fenlon I'm afraid in fact the players that came in should have been bursting a gut to get a starting place on Saturday but none seemed interested enough to earn a place on the bench on Saturday.

Billy Whizz
29-08-2012, 02:32 PM
Players 100% to blame, they came thinking they only had to turn up but Queens showed them up for what they really are big time. Can't pin this on Fenlon I'm afraid in fact the players that came in should have been bursting a gut to get a starting place on Saturday but none seemed interested enough to earn a place on the bench on Saturday.

Agree agree agree

I was so looking forward to going to Parkhead on Saturday on the back of the St Johnstone win. After last nights debacle I'm now dreading it.
The players owe it BIG TIME to the fans this weekend

Kato
29-08-2012, 02:40 PM
(Did you enjoy that dramatic, but optimistic conclusion there?)

Yes.

Hermit Crab
29-08-2012, 02:43 PM
Agree agree agree

I was so looking forward to going to Parkhead on Saturday on the back of the St Johnstone win. After last nights debacle I'm now dreading it.
The players owe it BIG TIME to the fans this weekend


I regret hand over £29 of my hard earned for Saturdays match BEFORE last nights game :grr:

WestEndHibee
29-08-2012, 02:50 PM
Since there seemed to be some rather heated exchanges on the match thread tonight about whether Fenlon is useless or not, and if so how useless he is, I thought I would offer a little clarity:

Ratings of our last five managers (% performance in all matches against SPL opposition based on 3 pts for a win, 1 for a draw, 0 for a loss)

Collins: 49%
Mixu: 42%
Yogi: 38%
CC: 33%
PF: 37%

So PF is better than Calderwood and only marginally worse than Yogi. Having said that, in presiding over a 0-5 reverse at home to Celtic, an utter humiliation against Hearts in the cup, and now a pumping out of the League Cup by 2nd Division opponents, PF has three ribbons on his chest that none of his predecessors quite managed.

Going by this you could also say that Fenlon has worked a miracle...

look at the he trends. Each manager has done worse than the previous one for the past 4 years until Pat turned up and turned the trend around.

a day ago this site was becoming enjoyable to visit again. Lets not hound out the manager AGAIN. He was given the absolute worst of the unworkable legacies so lets give him much more time to continue the progress he's made.

blackpoolhibs
29-08-2012, 02:58 PM
Im sick of saying this, but the starting 11 should still have been way too strong for QOS....PF made two changes at the break....If we had progressed last night, the changes would never have been mentioned. We lose and the Manager cops the flak.....All players let themselves, PF and the fans down last night. Last night proved we as a squad are miles away from where we should be, we were hardly great at home on Saturday but managed to win....I really don't envy PF's job at all...

If we had a starting 11 who should have been too strong for QOS, how did we lose?

I thought Pat thought long and hard about just who he was getting in, and did not just sign any old player because they had to be the right ones, and have the right character?

Surely the character fitness and commitment cant be wrong with this new bunch of players, surely not again as 4 changes from Saturday as you say, shouldn't have made much difference?

Baldy Foghorn
29-08-2012, 03:09 PM
If we had a starting 11 who should have been too strong for QOS, how did we lose?

I thought Pat thought long and hard about just who he was getting in, and did not just sign any old player because they had to be the right ones, and have the right character?

Surely the character fitness and commitment cant be wrong with this new bunch of players, surely not again as 4 changes from Saturday as you say, shouldn't have made much difference?

Because EVERY outfield player had a shocker.....Is that PF's fault??? Not in my book......Even the best teams in the World lose games.....

lord bunberry
29-08-2012, 03:10 PM
Players 100% to blame, they came thinking they only had to turn up but Queens showed them up for what they really are big time. Can't pin this on Fenlon I'm afraid in fact the players that came in should have been bursting a gut to get a starting place on Saturday but none seemed interested enough to earn a place on the bench on Saturday.

I don't see how you can say the players are 100% to blame yes they were terrible but are you surprised kujabi and o`hanlon had bad games because i wasn't. Imo if you play an understrength team then that sends out the wrong signals we should have went with the team that won on saturday

HUTCHYHIBBY
29-08-2012, 03:11 PM
Ehm did you see the team Liverpool put out against the Jumbos last week, they still managed to win. Not exactly the same but similar.

When Hibs are able to field a weakened team containing a player with a World Cup winners medal they will probably win too! That team was worth about £80m!

blackpoolhibs
29-08-2012, 03:16 PM
Because EVERY outfield player had a shocker.....Is that PF's fault??? Not in my book......Even the best teams in the World lose games.....

And when we are up there with the best teams in the world, i will accept losing to a 3rd division team. Until that time, i will expect the manager to get his team selection right, coupled with the motivation and tactics.

I wonder when that day will arrive.........

TomoHFC
29-08-2012, 03:17 PM
we canny just get him out just cause we lost 5-1 in the cup final to our rivals and last nights defeat to queen of the south we need to give him more time.

Baldy Foghorn
29-08-2012, 03:19 PM
And when we are up there with the best teams in the world, i will accept losing to a 3rd division team. Until that time, i will expect the manager to get his team selection right, coupled with the motivation and tactics.

I wonder when that day will arrive.........

OK you blame PF, I dont, on that basis Im out......

FWIW QOTS play in Division 2.......

DH1875
29-08-2012, 03:21 PM
If he turns out to be the wrong manager, then it is time these jokers in the Boardroom, carry the can......

Jokers in the boardroom :confused:. Maybe if these jokers didn't listen to the fans we wouldn't be in this mess. JC, Mixu and Yogi should ALL have been given more time. The board continue to back the managers they bring in (PF has signed something like 15 players) and yet their still seen as not good enough. Jesus, Rod didn't even take a wage out the club last year. How many many other chairmen would do that.

Back on Fenlon, he should never have got the job and is nowhere near up to it. Said it at the time and I'll say it again. He is however our manager and while I'm not impressed he's got my backing and support until the time comes when he leaves. We simply can't afford to sack another manager at this time, either on or off the field.

Baldy Foghorn
29-08-2012, 03:24 PM
Jokers in the boardroom :confused:. Maybe if these jokers didn't listen to the fans we wouldn't be in this mess. JC, Mixu and Yogi should ALL have been given more time. The board continue to back the managers they bring in (PF has signed something like 15 players) and yet their still seen as not good enough. Jesus, Rod didn't even take a wage out the club last year. How many many other chairmen would do that.

Back on Fenlon, he should never have got the job and is nowhere near up to it. Said it at the time and I'll say it again. He is however our manager and while I'm not impressed he's got my backing and support until the time comes when he leaves. We simply can't afford to sack another manager at this time, either on or off the field.

So the Board are blameless.....HAHAHAHAHA that's a cracker, I thought the fringe had finished?:confused: Did the fans appoint PF? That is the funniest post I have ever read, well done.....

blackpoolhibs
29-08-2012, 03:25 PM
OK you blame PF, I dont, on that basis Im out......

FWIW QOTS play in Division 2.......

He picks the team, he brings the characters in to play his systems.

I'm old fashioned, its the 3rd division to me, always will be the 3rd division no matter what fancy names we give them these days.

Famous5forever
29-08-2012, 03:33 PM
I was disgusted too BF, i was disgusted at hampden and way too many grounds after performances like last nights over the last few seasons.

We get the same excuses manager after manager, and last nights comment from Fenlon about being disgusted just goes over my head like all the rest now.

We have all heard Pat tell us the attitude has to change, the culture has to change, how we wont be a soft touch anymore.

As far as i can see the only thing that never changes is this clubs ability to boot us i the knackers just as we think maybe just maybe we might have turned a corner. :rolleyes:

He was almost been here a year now and there is no impovement just sayin.

JimBHibees
29-08-2012, 03:37 PM
He picks the team, he brings the characters in to play his systems.

I'm old fashioned, its the 3rd division to me, always will be the 3rd division no matter what fancy names we give them these days.

Surely it isnt either or it is both the manager and the players. To me possibly McPake rested and maybe one of the forwards however the bulk of the team should have been as Saturday as given QOS start to the season this was always going to be a tough test. Fair enough if someone is flying at training give them a run however I would find it hard to belive that either SOH, Booth or Kujabi have been.

In saying that you would have thought that players on the fringe should have been good enough though the evidence from last season would have said otherwise. To have both on the one side with SOH in the middle would to me have been a step too far.

JimBHibees
29-08-2012, 03:40 PM
He was almost been here a year now and there is no impovement just sayin.

Disagree, his signings have been better however yesterday showed we need a few more players and that we have an ok first 11 not much beyond that.

silverhibee
29-08-2012, 04:00 PM
I think the only one rested last night would be McPake....PF shuffled the pack, probably to see what some fringe players had to offer.....Is it really PF's fault when all outfield players have a shocker?


If McPake was fit then he should have started the game, he has been our best defender this season, to rest him is madness we are only a handful of games in to the season, he should have been on the pitch leading the team and giving them a good rollicking for there poor performance, the worry for me is he has played O'Hanlon(a player who has been told he can find another club) ahead of Stevens who started most of the pre-season games and the first game against D. Utd but yet after that game has no been in the squad since then, how does Stevens not come back in to the team, kujabi should never have been anywhere near a Hibs strip again after his performance in the final.

And he should know by now what the fringe players offer, nothing, so why play them baffles me and so does Pat for changing a winning team that was starting to gel a we bit and get to know each other on the pitch and he goes and changes it, and Fenlon did have 15 minutes at half time to get his point over to the players that they needed to up there game big time, but it seemed that it didn't work.

BF i know you like PF but he has to take some of the blame for making changes to a winning team when there was no need to do it, let them start the game and if we are winning comfortably then introduce the fringe players in to the game not the other way about by starting them, and what does PF mean when he says,"we didn't treat it properly" in today's Scotsman. :confused:

HFC 0-7
29-08-2012, 04:09 PM
what seems strange to me is resting players this early in the season. 4 games in and we are resting players already, these players should be able to play the full 90 mins for 30 + games a season easy.

blackpoolhibs
29-08-2012, 04:09 PM
Surely it isnt either or it is both the manager and the players. To me possibly McPake rested and maybe one of the forwards however the bulk of the team should have been as Saturday as given QOS start to the season this was always going to be a tough test. Fair enough if someone is flying at training give them a run however I would find it hard to belive that either SOH, Booth or Kujabi have been.

In saying that you would have thought that players on the fringe should have been good enough though the evidence from last season would have said otherwise. To have both on the one side with SOH in the middle would to me have been a step too far.

Of course you are right, although it is up to the manager to pick a side he feels will win a game against a 3rd division team. He clearly got that wrong as we found out to our disappointment once again last night.

My main gripe if i'm honest is this resting players, the seasons hardly started and we have a break after the smellies game. The fringe players can get themselves fit in bounce games or doing extra at the lovely new training centre.

They can be introduced into games gradually if they are good enough and up to the job.

We only have a slim chance in 2 tournaments every season, taking chances in one of those in unacceptable to me, no matter the excuse in my opinion?

Robinho08
29-08-2012, 04:14 PM
Too early to judge Paddy, I like the guy and he talks a good game. I just hope he can sort it on the pitch.

JimBHibees
29-08-2012, 04:21 PM
Of course you are right, although it is up to the manager to pick a side he feels will win a game against a 3rd division team. He clearly got that wrong as we found out to our disappointment once again last night.

My main gripe if i'm honest is this resting players, the seasons hardly started and we have a break after the smellies game. The fringe players can get themselves fit in bounce games or doing extra at the lovely new training centre.

They can be introduced into games gradually if they are good enough and up to the job.

We only have a slim chance in 2 tournaments every season, taking chances in one of those in unacceptable to me, no matter the excuse in my opinion?

Completely agree especially with Rangers weakened significantly. I can see McPake being left out as he appears as if he has to be managed carefully fitness wise however the leaving out of Maybury and Wotherspoon and playing Booth and Kujabi down the same side is pretty much unforgiveable given the complete lack of form of the latter two. The other thing is that fringe players shouldnt be expecting to get a game now and again they surely must be made to earn the right to play whether that is impressing in training or doing well in bounce/reserve games.

Sammy7nil
29-08-2012, 04:36 PM
In a total rebuild, we will get the odd night like last night. It's poor, yes, but it's a long journey and we will get there, but this place over-reacts to an almost comedic level.

I don't think there is any over reaction if anything Hibs fans are a very patient bunch.

In supporting Hibs for nearly 50 years I have seen a few blips when we have been good and years and years of mediocrity and under achievment. In this time Hibs have been well supported in comparrison to other teams yet constantly let the fans down with a laughable derby record.

So for me no real over reaction just same old dross with Pat carrying on the well established tradition.

gorgie_harp
29-08-2012, 04:43 PM
So the Board are blameless.....HAHAHAHAHA that's a cracker, I thought the fringe had finished?:confused: Did the fans appoint PF? That is the funniest post I have ever read, well done.....

👍bang on the money S.

CRAZYHIBBY
29-08-2012, 05:08 PM
Fenlon inherited ***** and arrived at a time when most half decent players decided not to touch hibs with a barge pole

WhileTheChief..
29-08-2012, 05:09 PM
I don't think there is any over reaction if anything Hibs fans are a very patient bunch.

In supporting Hibs for nearly 50 years I have seen a few blips when we have been good and years and years of mediocrity and under achievment. In this time Hibs have been well supported in comparrison to other teams yet constantly let the fans down with a laughable derby record.

So for me no real over reaction just same old dross with Pat carrying on the well established tradition.

:agree: Far too many of our fans just accept mediocrity and come out with all sorts of crap excuses after every defeat we suffer.

We have folk on here saying that last night is ok because we can now focus on the league!! WTF!! Who do we think we are, Chelsea, Citeh, Man Utd???

Thank God that PF is made of more stern stuff. He knows that it was totally unacceptable and will try and sort it out. He's been saying for ages that as a club we are a soft touch. That goes for the fans too. We really to toughen up and demand better.

Famous5forever
29-08-2012, 05:10 PM
I don't think there is any over reaction if anything Hibs fans are a very patient bunch.

In supporting Hibs for nearly 50 years I have seen a few blips when we have been good and years and years of mediocrity and under achievment. In this time Hibs have been well supported in comparrison to other teams yet constantly let the fans down with a laughable derby record.

So for me no real over reaction just same old dross with Pat carrying on the well established tradition.

I Think this is going to run on like this till the end of the year with the odd win then a string of the usual guff the pressure will build and the board will panic and fire him bring in someone else and the cycle will start all over again.
The new Manager will have to empty all the Dross and somehow get things going its like That Groundhog Day film and the people responsable seem to slither out of any blame time after time.
We should have treated last nights game very serious with our top team out on the park as it was a good chance to get silverwear Killie won it last year.

Captain Trips
29-08-2012, 05:43 PM
Too early to judge Paddy, I like the guy and he talks a good game. I just hope he can sort it on the pitch.

9months is to soon? He talks a good game he certainly rarely plays it.

JohnScott
29-08-2012, 05:59 PM
Terrible result tonight and Fenlon must take his share of blame but a lot of the folk who criticise him today and before seem to have been criticising him for whatever reason ( footballing or not ) since he was appointed . With Yogi it was obvious that quite a few here were dead against his appointment and didn`t even give grudging praise when we were doing well under him and even seemed to enjoy the " I told you so " when things went wrong . Probably the same with CC , Mixu etc too . Genuine criticism of managers for their tactics and signings etc including praise if / when things go well might be more useful . In the 45 years I`ve supported Hibs , Turnbull ( sacked as he led us towards relegation ) and Mowbray ( a failure as a manager since and lots of bad signings and cup results while with us ) were considered to be the best by " experts " . Of the recent managers , each one has inherited a worse squad than his predecessor . Is there really much difference between any of the managers at Hibs or elsewhere ?

Yes!

JohnStephens91
29-08-2012, 06:13 PM
9months is to soon? He talks a good game he certainly rarely plays it.

Sorry but he is still in the process of getting rid of the dross that was at the club when he took over. I know some people will point to Kujabi but on the whole his permanent signings appear to be good so let's look at them:

Williams: Reliable goalkeeper, might be a bit shaky at coming for crosses but his the ability to bounce back from errors and confidence in his ability.
McPake: On the verge of becoming a club legend if he continues to battle as hard as he does and put his body on the line for the team.
Clancy: Soild and dependable SPL player.
Maybury: Same as above and provides a wealth of experience to the team.
Cairney: Hungry young player wanting to showcase his talent at a great club, regularly sticks in a challenge and his attacking prowess.
Deegan: Commander in the centre of midfield and will only get better as his fitness improves and the midfield click into place. Strong in the challenge and does not accept defeat.
Doyle: Great movement and pace and should be able to get to double figures in the goal chart, he works his socks off in every game and appears to hurt whenever we lose.
Kuqi: Didn't look too great last night, but he needs to improve his fitness. Has the experience to bring on the likes of Doyle, Griffiths, Caldwell and Handling.

Just these players have helped us to a much healthier start to the season, barring the result last night. We are improving under Fenlon and those who disagree need to have a look at themselves. From this summer is when he should have been judged and not from January when he tried to get shot of the duds signed by previous managers. Fenlon his the ability to take the team further, but it will take time, this job is not an overnight one and it will be a while before the mess the club is in is sorted out.

JohnScott
29-08-2012, 06:31 PM
I Think this is going to run on like this till the end of the year with the odd win then a string of the usual guff the pressure will build and the board will panic and fire him bring in someone else and the cycle will start all over again.
The new Manager will have to empty all the Dross and somehow get things going its like That Groundhog Day film and the people responsable seem to slither out of any blame time after time.
We should have treated last nights game very serious with our top team out on the park as it was a good chance to get silverwear Killie won it last year.

Well said that man. Why would you "weaken" the team for a cup game when your trying to build up confidence on and off the park? Did he really think QOS would be a walkover? Was it arrogance or ignorance on his part? Surely he realises if he wants to strengthen the squad come January we needed a cup run? I've said previously that I'm worried his signings seem to be mainly Irish. I understand he wants players he knows but it also shows he might have little knowledge of the British game outside of the Old Firm and EPL. Dare I say it? Is he big enough for Hibs?

If your reading this Pat I sincerely wish you well. I did when you arrived. However your team selection last night was totally bizarre. We haven't the strength in depth to be mucking about with a cup team like QOS. I say cup team Pat, given they reached a Scottish cup final four years ago. :rolleyes:

HibsMax
29-08-2012, 06:35 PM
I Think this is going to run on like this till the end of the year with the odd win then a string of the usual guff the pressure will build and the board will panic and fire him bring in someone else and the cycle will start all over again.
The new Manager will have to empty all the Dross and somehow get things going its like That Groundhog Day film and the people responsable seem to slither out of any blame time after time.
I really hope that is not the case. I've been saying for years that we need stability at the manager position but it's been a merry-go-round and see where that has gotten us. Let's try some different for a change and stick with one guy. Let him learn from his mistakes. Let's face it, replacing managers hasn't done us any good so sticking with one guy till he gets it right doesn't seem like it could be that damaging. I'm not saying follow him blindly into division one but work through the tough times and see where we end up.

jiggerman
29-08-2012, 06:46 PM
Fenlon has had his hands tied since being appointed hibernian manager. A massive squad of bang average to poor players to get rid of, a four week window in January to assemble a squad to keep us up, summer transfer window with uncertainty over funds due to sevco and a general difficulty attracting players to hibs due to our current state. We always knew it would take time. I think Pat had a decent first eleven but need more quality. This does not mean he is exempt from criticism, he shot him self in the foot by not picking his strongest team last night. Still think he deserves more time.

Baldy Foghorn
29-08-2012, 08:45 PM
If McPake was fit then he should have started the game, he has been our best defender this season, to rest him is madness we are only a handful of games in to the season, he should have been on the pitch leading the team and giving them a good rollicking for there poor performance, the worry for me is he has played O'Hanlon(a player who has been told he can find another club) ahead of Stevens who started most of the pre-season games and the first game against D. Utd but yet after that game has no been in the squad since then, how does Stevens not come back in to the team, kujabi should never have been anywhere near a Hibs strip again after his performance in the final.

And he should know by now what the fringe players offer, nothing, so why play them baffles me and so does Pat for changing a winning team that was starting to gel a we bit and get to know each other on the pitch and he goes and changes it, and Fenlon did have 15 minutes at half time to get his point over to the players that they needed to up there game big time, but it seemed that it didn't work.

BF i know you like PF but he has to take some of the blame for making changes to a winning team when there was no need to do it, let them start the game and if we are winning comfortably then introduce the fringe players in to the game not the other way about by starting them, and what does PF mean when he says,"we didn't treat it properly" in today's Scotsman. :confused:

The same Stephens that was ridiculed and deemed not good enough from most .netters after opening defeat to Utd, Christ I can only imagine the backlash if DS started last night :rolleyes:

I do like PF and make no apology for it, I believe he was questioning the player's application, and quite rightly so, they let him down collectively big style......

blackpoolhibs
29-08-2012, 09:26 PM
The same Stephens that was ridiculed and deemed not good enough from most .netters after opening defeat to Utd, Christ I can only imagine the backlash if DS started last night :rolleyes:

I do like PF and make no apology for it, I believe he was questioning the player's application, and quite rightly so, they let him down collectively big style......

You dont need to apologise for liking a manager, if as you say he was let down by the players, so were the fans who support the club.

They were also let down by a manager picking a weakened team. A team thats just in the process of getting its confidence right, has in one game taken it back to square one, along with a lot of the support too.

FifeHibernian
29-08-2012, 09:33 PM
Going by this you could also say that Fenlon has worked a miracle...

look at the he trends. Each manager has done worse than the previous one for the past 4 years until Pat turned up and turned the trend around.

a day ago this site was becoming enjoyable to visit again. Lets not hound out the manager AGAIN. He was given the absolute worst of the unworkable legacies so lets give him much more time to continue the progress he's made.

So true, if there was a graph on this it would be a downward trend up until fenlon. Made an error last night perhaps underestimating a lower division side but he isn't the first manager to do so. Unlucky in the fact the team played so horrendously badly as well. Some people's reactions on this are verging in delusional.

My only worry is that it will perhaps knock the confidence of players before Saturday but hopefully (and it wouldn't be surprising) they will bounce back with a bit of fight.

jacomo
30-08-2012, 08:15 AM
I really hope that is not the case. I've been saying for years that we need stability at the manager position but it's been a merry-go-round and see where that has gotten us. Let's try some different for a change and stick with one guy. Let him learn from his mistakes. Let's face it, replacing managers hasn't done us any good so sticking with one guy till he gets it right doesn't seem like it could be that damaging. I'm not saying follow him blindly into division one but work through the tough times and see where we end up.

I think this is where we are. It's been a far from flawless tenure from PF so far but there have been some glimmers of hope. Tuesday night was another blunder but let's hope lessons are learned.

Famous5forever
30-08-2012, 08:17 AM
I really hope that is not the case. I've been saying for years that we need stability at the manager position but it's been a merry-go-round and see where that has gotten us. Let's try some different for a change and stick with one guy. Let him learn from his mistakes. Let's face it, replacing managers hasn't done us any good so sticking with one guy till he gets it right doesn't seem like it could be that damaging. I'm not saying follow him blindly into division one but work through the tough times and see where we end up.


I Agree with you to a certain extent however we are in a results driven business and Managers are not there to fail and be given rewards for failure thats us been horsed out one of only 2 competitions we had a chance at winning this season and so early in the season by a 2nd rate team.We as fans did not expect or sign up to be treated like this and not putting our strongest team out for a cup tie away from home is not a clever move.What it has proved is these fringe players who he put on the park are clearly not good enough we can all see that.

blackpoolhibs
30-08-2012, 10:57 AM
I think this is where we are. It's been a far from flawless tenure from PF so far but there have been some glimmers of hope. Tuesday night was another blunder but let's hope lessons are learned.

I wish i had a pound for every time i have heard that said? :boo hoo:

Springbank
30-08-2012, 11:13 AM
Need a banner for parkhead telling them "qos ffs hang your heads low"

Utterly unacceptable

Famous5forever
30-08-2012, 12:05 PM
I wish i had a pound for every time i have heard that said? :boo hoo:

I Have just read the Kuqi thread and by the sound of the condition he is in and his performance on Tuesday night he is a total Dud you have to wonder on Paddys ability to identify a player if this is what we are going to have to suffer a 35 year old overweight past his sell by date Dud.

This is wages that could have been utilized to bring in some quality this guy sounds a worse signing than the Pit Bull and Roberto Carlos at Left Back. There has to be better players available from our Academy we have fantastic facilities at our Traing Complex and we should be reaping our reward for the investment made by our Club to build the Complex.

For me id rather see a young player with potential introduced into the team rather tan wasting time and money on a player like Kuqi.

blackpoolhibs
30-08-2012, 12:13 PM
I Have just read the Kuqi thread and by the sound of the condition he is in and his performance on Tuesday night he is a total Dud you have to wonder on Paddys ability to identify a player if this is what we are going to have to suffer a 35 year old overweight past his sell by date Dud.

This is wages that could have been utilized to bring in some quality this guy sounds a worse signing than the Pit Bull and Roberto Carlos at Left Back. There has to be better players available from our Academy we have fantastic facilities at our Traing Complex and we should be reaping our reward for the investment made by our Club to build the Complex.

For me id rather see a young player with potential introduced into the team rather tan wasting time and money on a player like Kuqi.

Personally i feel he needs a bit longer than 1 game before he's written off.

lord bunberry
30-08-2012, 12:18 PM
Personally i feel he needs a bit longer than 1 game before he's written off.

Sorry but its already been decided he's useless

Famous5forever
30-08-2012, 12:28 PM
Personally i feel he needs a bit longer than 1 game before he's written off.

Fair point and by the sounds of the one game he has played it cant get any worse so on that basis he can only improve.

Phil MaGlass
30-08-2012, 12:31 PM
I keep hearing about fringe players and shuffling the pack but COME ON TAE **** even fringe players should be beating the likes of Queens, theres no amount of excuses that can make up for the final or the Queens game, the buck stops at the manager, we should NEVER have put out a weakened team, we only have the chance of 2 trophies one we have just been dumped out of and the other we havent won for over 100 bloody years.
Up until the Queens game I was confident for the season ahead, now were back to square one and ****all to look forward tae for the rest of the season, oh and spare a thought for the poor punters who put their money where there their mouths are and bought ST,s.

We really need tae come back from Parkhead atleast with a point because I can see more empty spaces opening up on the terraces at ER.

Famous5forever
30-08-2012, 02:11 PM
Sorry but its already been decided he's useless

These sort of signings dont normally work out they tried this at the PBS With nade and it took a fork lift truck to lift him i hope i am proved wrong and it works out to be fair our top goalscorer last season was hardly slim jim if he scores as many as GOC That would be a good return.
Anyone who seen him play on Tuesday think this is a possibility ?

jacomo
30-08-2012, 02:19 PM
I wish i had a pound for every time i have heard that said? :boo hoo:

Even Alex Ferguson gets his team selection wrong from time to time, even now.

I agree PF made a blunder on Tuesday and made life harder for himself... now he needs to pick up the pieces again.

I've followed all the arguments on here for and against our manager, and I have my own opinion on that. But I don't think it really matters... he just needs to get better performances from the team, and the Hibs fans have proved (despite some pointless sniping on here) that they will back him if he does that.

HibsMax
30-08-2012, 02:23 PM
I keep hearing about fringe players and shuffling the pack but COME ON TAE **** even fringe players should be beating the likes of Queens, theres no amount of excuses that can make up for the final or the Queens game, the buck stops at the manager, we should NEVER have put out a weakened team, we only have the chance of 2 trophies one we have just been dumped out of and the other we havent won for over 100 bloody years.
Up until the Queens game I was confident for the season ahead, now were back to square one and ****all to look forward tae for the rest of the season, oh and spare a thought for the poor punters who put their money where there their mouths are and bought ST,s.

We really need tae come back from Parkhead atleast with a point because I can see more empty spaces opening up on the terraces at ER.

You start by saying that even fringe players should beat the likes of QoS and then follow that by putting all the blame on Fenlon. So who do you think is at fault? For the record, I agree that the even a weakened Hibs side *should* beat QoS and I also believe that Fenlon should have played the strongest team he could have (whilst minimising injury risks) but if you concede that a weakened side should have still won, how can we really blame Fenlon for thinking the same thing? I think there is enough blame to go around but ultimately it's Fenlon's choice who to play and the players he picked couldn't get the job done.

JimBHibees
30-08-2012, 02:38 PM
Personally i feel he needs a bit longer than 1 game before he's written off.

That will be the same guy that scored 16 or so goals last season in a league comparable with the SPL.

Hibiza
30-08-2012, 02:49 PM
I Have just read the Kuqi thread and by the sound of the condition he is in and his performance on Tuesday night he is a total Dud you have to wonder on Paddys ability to identify a player if this is what we are going to have to suffer a 35 year old overweight past his sell by date Dud.

This is wages that could have been utilized to bring in some quality this guy sounds a worse signing than the Pit Bull and Roberto Carlos at Left Back. There has to be better players available from our Academy we have fantastic facilities at our Traing Complex and we should be reaping our reward for the investment made by our Club to build the Complex.

For me id rather see a young player with potential introduced into the team rather tan wasting time and money on a player like Kuqi.

Kuqi be fine after losing a stone and a half.

blackpoolhibs
30-08-2012, 03:12 PM
That will be the same guy that scored 16 or so goals last season in a league comparable with the SPL.

:agree:

Famous5forever
30-08-2012, 03:26 PM
Kuqi be fine after losing a stone and a half.

He cant have put on 21 pounds in weight in the close season and he would have had a medical before signing and his body fat percentage taken he must just be big built.

500miles
30-08-2012, 03:34 PM
Fenlon was quite right to pick the team he did. We should be protecting a few key players in games like that. The team that we put out should have been more than capable of taking care of QOTS. It was the players themselves who dropped the standard, let down the fan, and let down the manager.

blackpoolhibs
30-08-2012, 03:42 PM
Fenlon was quite right to pick the team he did. We should be protecting a few key players in games like that. The team that we put out should have been more than capable of taking care of QOTS. It was the players themselves who dropped the standard, let down the fan, and let down the manager.

Unfortunately the result tells me he was wrong to pick the team he did, we all knew beforehand this would be a tricky tie, and thats how it panned out.

Resting players this early in the season is ridiculous, especially with a free week coming up.

How to shatter a clubs confidence in one easy lesson, well done to all involved.

500miles
30-08-2012, 03:59 PM
Unfortunately the result tells me he was wrong to pick the team he did, we all knew beforehand this would be a tricky tie, and thats how it panned out.

Resting players this early in the season is ridiculous, especially with a free week coming up.

How to shatter a clubs confidence in one easy lesson, well done to all involved.
Doesn't matter. Kujabi set up 3 goals in a trashing of the St. Mirren reserves game, and Fenlon will have been deciding whether to use some of his limited resources on a CH, or if O'Hanlon can be relied on. Both players are good enough to be Div 2 opposition, but the problem wasn't just them. Griffiths missed an open goal, hit the bar and should have cut back for Doyle, and Kuqi took a shot straight at the keeper that would have been a goal either side, Deegan and Claros didn't manage to get the game by the scruff of the neck.....

Every player should have been capable but they didn't produce.

Bad day at the office for some, wrong attitude from other, but that team should be beating QOTS, even if the manager was on holiday FFS. It was the fault of the players, and that includes the more popular players like Deegan and Griffiths.

jacomo
30-08-2012, 04:02 PM
Fenlon was quite right to pick the team he did. We should be protecting a few key players in games like that. The team that we put out should have been more than capable of taking care of QOTS. It was the players themselves who dropped the standard, let down the fan, and let down the manager.

No he wasn't. The result not enough evidence enough for you?

Games like what? Games we should definitely win? Coz it clearly wasn't one of those.

The manager selects the team and the manager takes responsibility for results. If that isn't clear then he has no business being the manager.

blackpoolhibs
30-08-2012, 04:05 PM
Doesn't matter. Kujabi set up 3 goals in a trashing of the St. Mirren reserves game, and Fenlon will have been deciding whether to use some of his limited resources on a CH, or if O'Hanlon can be relied on. Both players are good enough to be Div 2 opposition, but the problem wasn't just them. Griffiths missed an open goal, hit the bar and should have cut back for Doyle, and Kuqi took a shot straight at the keeper that would have been a goal either side, Deegan and Claros didn't manage to get the game by the scruff of the neck.....

Every player should have been capable but they didn't produce.

Bad day at the office for some, wrong attitude from other, but that team should be beating QOTS, even if the manager was on holiday FFS. It was the fault of the players, and that includes the more popular players like Deegan and Griffiths.

Oh i think it does, we dont have a side we can intentionally weaken to take on any team never mind a tricky away tie at a lower league club.

You only have to look at how sevco are struggling to win on their travels in the 4th division to know that.

lyonhibs
30-08-2012, 04:06 PM
Doesn't matter. Kujabi set up 3 goals in a trashing of the St. Mirren reserves game, and Fenlon will have been deciding whether to use some of his limited resources on a CH, or if O'Hanlon can be relied on. Both players are good enough to be Div 2 opposition, but the problem wasn't just them. Griffiths missed an open goal, hit the bar and should have cut back for Doyle, and Kuqi took a shot straight at the keeper that would have been a goal either side, Deegan and Claros didn't manage to get the game by the scruff of the neck.....

Every player should have been capable but they didn't produce.

Bad day at the office for some, wrong attitude from other, but that team should be beating QOTS, even if the manager was on holiday FFS. It was the fault of the players, and that includes the more popular players like Deegan and Griffiths.

If the manager is using performances in a reserve game (as opposed to past performance for the 1st team, which should be enough to let Stevie Wonder see that Kujabi ain't got it at LB) as his main criteria for deciding who gets to pull on the green & white in one of our 2 chances for silverware, then the game is up the pole.

Also, every man and his dog knows that O'Hanlon can't be relied upon. 2nd division or not, this was an away game at a pokey wee ground. Far from ideal and far from easy. Better teams than Hibs have come unstuck in the past at lower league opposition, so why Fenlon thought it appropriate to tinker with a winning side I don't know.

What I do know is that the best, most in-form 11 fit players should play at Celtic Park this weekend, and every game this season forthwith. No more tinkering about when our "plan B" players are so very clearly not up to the task.

hibsbollah
30-08-2012, 04:27 PM
Before kickoff on Tuesday i said id be happy for Fenlon to give some players a rest for the night, its easy with hindsight but Kujabi has shown good things last season, Booth obviously has talent, Kuqi needed games...as has already been said Fenlon cant have foreseen how spectacularly his players let him down. A squad is just that, a squad. I would have expected the players above on a normal night to have been too much for a third division team. (i exclude ohanlon from that, i wouldnt trust him to put one foot in front of the other but thats just me).

Famous5forever
30-08-2012, 04:44 PM
Doesn't matter. Kujabi set up 3 goals in a trashing of the St. Mirren reserves game, and Fenlon will have been deciding whether to use some of his limited resources on a CH, or if O'Hanlon can be relied on. Both players are good enough to be Div 2 opposition, but the problem wasn't just them. Griffiths missed an open goal, hit the bar and should have cut back for Doyle, and Kuqi took a shot straight at the keeper that would have been a goal either side, Deegan and Claros didn't manage to get the game by the scruff of the neck.....

Every player should have been capable but they didn't produce.

Bad day at the office for some, wrong attitude from other, but that team should be beating QOTS, even if the manager was on holiday FFS. It was the fault of the players, and that includes the more popular players like Deegan and Griffiths.

This is frightening if a few of our better players hit bad form a couple of injuries to others and suspensions then we are goosed as the fringe players are dross Paddy still needs to clear a lot of the dross out to be replaced by quality hopefully this squad can get us through till the window opens again in January so we can bring more players in.

What we need is 3 or 4 wins on the trot to install confidence Paddy saying he " Is Disgusted " with them does not help.

HFC 0-7
30-08-2012, 04:52 PM
Before kickoff on Tuesday i said id be happy for Fenlon to give some players a rest for the night, its easy with hindsight but Kujabi has shown good things last season, Booth obviously has talent, Kuqi needed games...as has already been said Fenlon cant have foreseen how spectacularly his players let him down. A squad is just that, a squad. I would have expected the players above on a normal night to have been too much for a third division team. (i exclude ohanlon from that, i wouldnt trust him to put one foot in front of the other but thats just me).


Disagree, these players that he brought in let us down last season, especially O ' Hanlon. We have had a problem with our defence for a few seasons now and O ' Hanlon was a big part of that, we have just got a semi decent defence for 3 games and its changed to put in the players that have let us down. Why we are resting players 4 games into a season is also strange, these are professional footballers who should be able to play over 30 games a season easy. We are just off the back of a horrific season where we couldnt compete with anyone, to start playing better and change the players that have been playing well with ones that let us down is crazy.

i just dont understand why we are resting players at this stage of the season, possibly resting one at a time at a push but to change half the defence, an area that has plagued us previously can only be viewed as a mistake from the manager.

JimBHibees
30-08-2012, 04:59 PM
This is frightening if a few of our better players hit bad form a couple of injuries to others and suspensions then we are goosed as the fringe players are dross Paddy still needs to clear a lot of the dross out to be replaced by quality hopefully this squad can get us through till the window opens again in January so we can bring more players in.

What we need is 3 or 4 wins on the trot to install confidence Paddy saying he " Is Disgusted " with them does not help.

I am sure he will be working every hour until tomorrow night to improve his squad both in and out. I would prefer a manager to be honest with his players rather than "blow smoke up their ass". Players arent stupid (sometimes:greengrin) I think they will realise Tuesday's result wasnt good enough. I agree with him I was disgusted with the score also.

Baldy Foghorn
30-08-2012, 07:51 PM
Need a banner for parkhead telling them "qos ffs hang your heads low"

Utterly unacceptable

Yes, that's sure to give the players a huge lift :rolleyes:

Baldy Foghorn
30-08-2012, 07:55 PM
No he wasn't. The result not enough evidence enough for you?

Games like what? Games we should definitely win? Coz it clearly wasn't one of those.

The manager selects the team and the manager takes responsibility for results. If that isn't clear then he has no business being the manager.

So no blame is apportioned to every outfield player who were collectively and individually shambolic???

Lucky old PF, hope he has big shoulders.....

500miles
30-08-2012, 08:06 PM
If those players went out and done the professional nights work that they are all capable of, we would have won. Every one if those players is professional and, booth apart, have proven themselves at a professional level. Pat put trust in players he would have hoped had been lifted by the teams recent form, and they let him down. One criticism I would have is that I would have swapped booth and kujabi, as I think the latter would be a good winger

Baldy Foghorn
30-08-2012, 08:10 PM
If those players went out and done the professional nights work that they are all capable of, we would have won. Every one if those players is professional and, booth apart, have proven themselves at a professional level. Pat put trust in players he would have hoped had been lifted by the teams recent form, and they let him down. One criticism I would have is that I would have swapped booth and kujabi, as I think the latter would be a good winger

Agreed......

jacomo
31-08-2012, 09:20 AM
So no blame is apportioned to every outfield player who were collectively and individually shambolic???

Lucky old PF, hope he has big shoulders.....

Not what I said.

What I said is that absolving PF of any blame for Tuesday is ridiculous - he got it wrong, plain and simple.

lord bunberry
31-08-2012, 10:15 AM
Not what I said.

What I said is that absolving PF of any blame for Tuesday is ridiculous - he got it wrong, plain and simple.

He did he put his faith in players who are not good enough he underestimated the opposition and we paid the price he needs to learn from this and play our strongest 11 in every match from now on

Famous5forever
31-08-2012, 01:49 PM
I am sure he will be working every hour until tomorrow night to improve his squad both in and out. I would prefer a manager to be honest with his players rather than "blow smoke up their ass". Players arent stupid (sometimes:greengrin) I think they will realise Tuesday's result wasnt good enough. I agree with him I was disgusted with the score also.

I Know he has brought in 15 players in his short time at the helm but i still think we need at least 2 more and preferably 4 to 5 new players to have decent cover in all positions i am not convinced Kuqi is the answer but ill reserve judgement till he has a few games under his belt.

Baldy Foghorn
31-08-2012, 06:28 PM
Not what I said.

What I said is that absolving PF of any blame for Tuesday is ridiculous - he got it wrong, plain and simple.

If you read your post you say it is manager who picks the team....It reads to me from your post that you blame PF, and make no mention of the abysmal display from the players.....

matty_f
01-09-2012, 10:37 PM
Credit to Pat for the result and performance today. Great way to come back from Tuesday.

LeighLoyal
01-09-2012, 10:47 PM
I'm still hurting a bit from Tuesday night, but today made up for it. I hope Fenlon stays as Hibs managers for a few years and builds a team as exciting as the McLeish and Mowbray ones.

jacomo
01-09-2012, 11:17 PM
If you read your post you say it is manager who picks the team....It reads to me from your post that you blame PF, and make no mention of the abysmal display from the players.....

We could talk all day about the failings of the Hibs players - thankfully fewer of them around now - but this thread is about Fenlon, and whether or not he got it wrong on Tuesday. He did.


Credit to Pat for the result and performance today. Great way to come back from Tuesday.

:agree:

see, credit where its due :wink:

blackpoolhibs
02-09-2012, 08:54 AM
Pat deserves enormous credit for yesterdays draw, :thumbsup: well done Pat and the team. :top marks

Captain Trips
02-09-2012, 09:51 AM
Pat deserves enormous credit for yesterdays draw, :thumbsup: well done Pat and the team. :top marks

Indeed no debate on here or talk from PF or players will make me think PF is right man only a continuation of results like yesterday will so please keep it up and I will be delighted to be wrong.

basehibby
02-09-2012, 10:57 AM
If the manager is using performances in a reserve game (as opposed to past performance for the 1st team, which should be enough to let Stevie Wonder see that Kujabi ain't got it at LB) as his main criteria for deciding who gets to pull on the green & white in one of our 2 chances for silverware, then the game is up the pole.

Also, every man and his dog knows that O'Hanlon can't be relied upon. 2nd division or not, this was an away game at a pokey wee ground. Far from ideal and far from easy. Better teams than Hibs have come unstuck in the past at lower league opposition, so why Fenlon thought it appropriate to tinker with a winning side I don't know.

What I do know is that the best, most in-form 11 fit players should play at Celtic Park this weekend, and every game this season forthwith. No more tinkering about when our "plan B" players are so very clearly not up to the task.


You obviously don't get to many games from down there in Oxford then!

Any regular attendee at ER from last season could tell you that Kujabi performed consistently WELL against bottom 6 teams. It was only against teams in the top 6 with quality wingers that he started to struggle a bit. On that basis I would have expected him to have no great problems playing against a 2nd Div side.

As it goes, I tend to agree that Fenlon got it wrong in making too many changes against QOS but that does not mean I will suddenly erase from memory the positive things he has done at Hibs so far - what I see is a team in progress. Part of that progress was signing Kujabi, who, after helping to steady the defence and earning plaudits with a superb assist for GOC to help earn us a place in the Cup Final, has since been piloried by fickle Hibs supporters and made a scapegoat for the whole team's non-performance that day.

I'm not saying Kujabi is any kind of superstar (see above) but I am heartilly sick of certain so called supporters who cannot open their mouths/browsers without laying into their latest scapegoat.

Anyway - back to the Fenlon debate - games like QOS and THAT game in May are evidence that Pat is certainly human and has made mistakes in terms of tactics and setting his teams out. That said he has also displayed some very important qualities indeed - first among them the ability to spot where things are going wrong and identify and attract the kind of players to rectify the problems. I would add focus, determination and an ability to communicate frankly and intelligently to the list.

The end of the transfer window was perhaps a bit disappointing in that it left positions identified by Fenlon himself as understrength unchanged. There is still a positive to take from this though - what it says to me is that PF is dead set on building a TEAM and that panic buys are not his thing. That will do fine for me - it may take a wee while but I believe this policy will see a steady progress up the table season on season.

basehibby
02-09-2012, 11:03 AM
Disagree, these players that he brought in let us down last season, especially O ' Hanlon. We have had a problem with our defence for a few seasons now and O ' Hanlon was a big part of that, we have just got a semi decent defence for 3 games and its changed to put in the players that have let us down. Why we are resting players 4 games into a season is also strange, these are professional footballers who should be able to play over 30 games a season easy. We are just off the back of a horrific season where we couldnt compete with anyone, to start playing better and change the players that have been playing well with ones that let us down is crazy.

i just dont understand why we are resting players at this stage of the season, possibly resting one at a time at a push but to change half the defence, an area that has plagued us previously can only be viewed as a mistake from the manager.

O'Hanlon was brought in by CC as you would know if you'd been paying attention.

HFC 0-7
02-09-2012, 11:19 AM
O'Hanlon was brought in by CC as you would know if you'd been paying attention.

Doest matter who brought him in, Fenlon knew enough about him to know that the team had been le down by his performances before, that was my point. Don't play players that aren't good enough if there are better players available. What are you saying? Because he didn't bring him in he didn't know he was a liability?

basehibby
02-09-2012, 12:42 PM
Doest matter who brought him in, Fenlon knew enough about him to know that the team had been le down by his performances before, that was my point. Don't play players that aren't good enough if there are better players available. What are you saying? Because he didn't bring him in he didn't know he was a liability?

Yes it does matter when that's what you're being corrected about. You stated that Fenlon's signings had let us down - especially O'Hanlon - blatant BS that needed to be corrected.

As it goes, much as I didn't rate him myself, O'Hanlon did pretty well in his last appearance before QOS (away vs Aberdeen?). Therefore, given that McPake apparently needed rested, his inclusion DID make sense. Not sure if I would have made all the other changes though.

HFC 0-7
02-09-2012, 02:13 PM
Yes it does matter when that's what you're being corrected about. You stated that Fenlon's signings had let us down - especially O'Hanlon - blatant BS that needed to be corrected.

As it goes, much as I didn't rate him myself, O'Hanlon did pretty well in his last appearance before QOS (away vs Aberdeen?). Therefore, given that McPake apparently needed rested, his inclusion DID make sense. Not sure if I would have made all the other changes though.

Never said his signings at all! I said the players he brought in, as in players he brought into the side for that game, perhaps could have worded it better, but you seem prefer just to lay into peoples posts.

So the BS here is from you as I never mentioned signings anywhere in my post!