Fitness levels - last 20 minutes

[stalbanshibby]

I didn't make it to Paisley yesterday but I was at the Derby game. I've heard in both matches with 20 minutes to go -a few Hibs players blowing hard - completely knackered. In the Derby game I noticed Spoony in particular.

At this time of year the excuse usually trotted out is lack of match sharpness/ beginning of the season; in March/ April tired legs etc etc.

Don't know whether I'm being unkind, but with all the facilities that Hibs players have, I don't get why this seems a collective problem for us whereas other teams seem to be OK.

Too many pies?

I know JC was being revolutionary in SCotland with the diet and fitness regime he wanted to bring in (leading to player revolt), but we're never going to be anything in Europe if we do the bare minimum, and don't catch up. Elite sporting achievement (as seen in the Olympics) is only achieved by dedication and sacrifice and using all the information and technology at your disposal. We are talking about professional sportsmen here - the Hibs players that is.

So what's the deal at East Mains - do we have nutrition scientists or does any regime go out the window when the players go out to get blootered in Geroge Street of a Saturday night anyway??

[Hibbyradge]

Excellent post.

I thought the team was going to get away unscathed after a good away victory, but you popped up just in time.

Good job!

[500miles]

How tired you are for the last 20 minutes is relative to how hard you work for the previous 70. I always thought the attacks on our fitness levels were a bit ill-informed, or a case of folk looking for something to moan about.

The fact is we worked very hard yesterday.

[oneone73]

How tired you are for the last 20 minutes is relative to how hard you work for the previous 70. I always thought the attacks on our fitness levels were a bit ill-informed, or a case of folk looking for something to moan about.

The fact is we worked very hard yesterday.

Good post.

[Juice-Terry]

I agree with the OP: we did look knackered for the last 20 mins - and that's when St Mirren were all over us. Of course it's true that how tired you are toward the end of the match depends on how hard you've worked earlier in the match, but I don't think St Mirren worked less hard than we did. So, yes, there seems to be a problem with fitness.... Even so, three points away is never a bad thing. Onward and upward!
:flag:

[ahibby]

I'm sure the op is just as delighted/relieved as all hibbies that we got a win yesterday. I wasn't there but from reports we were on the ropes for the last twenty. I thought we looked tired for the last fifteen against Hearts last week. As others have rightly said it is relative to how much you put in to a game. We had the earliest part of the game with a huge difference in possession statistics and that might account for us disappearing later on. Gut instinct is that we won't be a team that nicks a game at the end of a match for a while and surely fitness levels to handle 96 minutes will improve as the season goes on?

[lucky]

Well the super mega fit St Mirren got ****ed yesterday and the disorganized, unfit, split dressing room, manager hating and greggs loving Hibs got 3 points.

[500miles]

Anyone else think that it might have something to do with St. Mirren having a game to chase at 2-1, and we didn't have that urgent need to kick the tempo up?

[DaveF]

Anyone else think that it might have something to do with St. Mirren having a game to chase at 2-1, and we didn't have that urgent need to kick the tempo up?

I agree. We had the lead and they were desperate to fet back into it. Not quite a new scenario in terms of a football match.

They got the ball wide and lumped in crosses for big guys and we defended really well. Yes, I would have liked our midfield to get the ball down and pass it but football rarely goes the way you want it. We worked and we won.

Happy days.

[Hibi]

Anyone else think that it might have something to do with St. Mirren having a game to chase at 2-1, and we didn't have that urgent need to kick the tempo up?

Absolutely, you get a goal back in a game the momentum always changes. Genuinely don't think there will be a whole lot of difference in fitness between teams in the SPL. Also think confidence plays a huge part. When morale is low and lacking confidence players will be more tense, less reluctance to move from their position for fear of getting caught out of position.

[jacomo]

Absolutely, you get a goal back in a game the momentum always changes. Genuinely don't think there will be a whole lot of difference in fitness between teams in the SPL. Also think confidence plays a huge part. When morale is low and lacking confidence players will be more tense, less reluctance to move from their position for fear of getting caught out of position.

This might be all correct, but I do find the instant dismissal of any querying of our fitness levels to be quite depressing.

We have one of the best training facilities in Scotland, we should be able to employ some of the best 100 or so footballers in the country. Is it not reasonable to expect them to behave like professional sportsmen, and question their fitness when it appears to be poor?

The athleticism of the EPL is breath-taking... Spain and Barca play a game that depends on supreme fitness. Scottish football has fallen way, way below these standards. Can't we at least aspire to something better? Can't we aim for continual improvement rather than just accepting our lot?

[proud_and_green]

How tired you are for the last 20 minutes is relative to how hard you work for the previous 70. I always thought the attacks on our fitness levels were a bit ill-informed, or a case of folk looking for something to moan about.

The fact is we worked very hard yesterday.

Of course work rate is relevant, however if your strategy and gameplan is to press hard and work hard then you must be able to do that for the duration of the game otherwise you will let the other team in and allow them to press.

I actually thought that Hearts looked really unfit last week and that we looked ok in comparison.

[blackpoolhibs]

Surely we cant still be unfit, how many players and managers are not spotting this? :wink:

[EdinMike]

I hope there's no Sport Psychologists on .net or this thread is gonna go nuts !! Was at the game yesterday and yes the guys looked tired but St. Mirren were on the upper hand and that in effect gave them a boost, You see it every week in any game you watch.

The positive thing to take from it is we coped with that pressure !? Or are we just nit-picking for something to moan about !?

[blackpoolhibs]

I hope there's no Sport Psychologists on .net or this thread is gonna go nuts !! Was at the game yesterday and yes the guys looked tired but St. Mirren were on the upper hand and that in effect gave them a boost, You see it every week in any game you watch.

The positive thing to take from it is we coped with that pressure !? Or are we just nit-picking for something to moan about !?

I dont think we are unfit, i dont think previous teams have been unfit. We have had the odd player who has certainly been unfit, we all know who that was. We have also had the odd player who have come back from injuries, and they have probably not been up to match fitness, but all clubs have them.

During a game both teams will normally have times when they are on top, now we seem to have better payers and a better 'team' :pray: we will hold on to leads more than before, we might even keep clean sheets?

The forward players will have more confidence that the midfield wil support them, and they will also feel the midfield and defence are going to do their jobs much better than last season.

That will give them the licence to do things they maybe were frightened to do, knowing the players behind them will clean up any of their mistakes.

Lack of fitness is always in my opinion an excuse, lack of ability makes you look unfit because you cant keep the ball long enough to do anything with it.

Now we have players who can keep the ball, and can support players with the ball, we hopefully will see us with the ball a lot more, and the opposition teams will be the ones who are chasing after the ball ?

[J-C]

I dont think we are unfit, i dont think previous teams have been unfit. We have had the odd player who has certainly been unfit, we all know who that was. We have also had the odd player who have come back from injuries, and they have probably not been up to match fitness, but all clubs have them.

During a game both teams will normally have times when they are on top, now we seem to have better payers and a better 'team' :pray: we will hold on to leads more than before, we might even keep clean sheets?

The forward players will have more confidence that the midfield wil support them, and they will also feel the midfield and defence are going to do their jobs much better than last season.

That will give them the licence to do things they maybe were frightened to do, knowing the players behind them will clean up any of their mistakes.

Lack of fitness is always in my opinion an excuse, lack of ability makes you look unfit because you cant keep the ball long enough to do anything with it.

Now we have players who can keep the ball, and can support players with the ball, we hopefully will see us with the ball a lot more, and the opposition teams will be the ones who are chasing after the ball ?

:top marks

I also think the lack of quality on the bench means we can't change the players who have run themselves into the ground, instead we have to keep them there for 90 mins, knackered.

[Franck is God]

I doubt there is a lack of fitness around the team/squad but what I do know is there is a lack of recent experience of winning competitive matches from a winning position, I would think that had we not conceded a goal so quickly after getting the second or had Griffiths free kick gone in then the last 15-20 minutes wouldn't have been quite the backs against the wall display those that travelled saw.

As we improve game by game and (hopefully) we get more positive results then we will see fewer nervy spells in games, winning is a habit that we have not had for a while and I think that nerves played a bigger part in that last 20 of yesterdays game than fitness levels.

[The Falcon]

That will give them the licence to do things they maybe were frightened to do, knowing the players behind them will clean up any of their mistakes.




Confidence is a big thing IMO. The prvious two managers have remarked on our "softness" but the steps they took were ineffective, at best. Fenlon has brought back McPake (whose leadership is vital) and the Captain is no longer fighting a loan battle. He has Clancy now to his right, who is getting more impressive each game and was my MOM yesterday, and Maybury to his left. Both these additions will help Hanlon. Cairney and Deegan look like they wont get knocked about and the presence of Deegan, in particular, will help those around them, Claros immediately going by yesterday, and the youngsters coming in will look to Deegan when the rough stuff starts and, for the first time in a long time, we have a warrior in there. Kuqi's reputation suggests he wont spend a lot of time being bullied either.

We appear to have that bit of steel we have been missing for so long.

[stalbanshibby]

This might be all correct, but I do find the instant dismissal of any querying of our fitness levels to be quite depressing.

We have one of the best training facilities in Scotland, we should be able to employ some of the best 100 or so footballers in the country. Is it not reasonable to expect them to behave like professional sportsmen, and question their fitness when it appears to be poor?

The athleticism of the EPL is breath-taking... Spain and Barca play a game that depends on supreme fitness. Scottish football has fallen way, way below these standards. Can't we at least aspire to something better? Can't we aim for continual improvement rather than just accepting our lot?

Thanks mate. Of course I was delighted with Hibs win yesterday, but you've put the point over that I was trying to make much point better than I did.

[Ryan91]

There are still a couple of players in the squad who aren't match fit, IMO. Some players were struggling towards the end after having worked hard for most of the match, I guess most of them aren't used to it, but as the season progresses their fitness will improve bit by bit and they'll be able to work harder for longer.

I think this is a squad that has a lot of fight in it and a desire to succeed especially after the poor showing in May.

GGTTH

[NAE NOOKIE]

Got to say that after the second half against the Yams and from what I heard on the radio yesterday our fitness levels do appear to be a wee bit in question.

But there are probably a few reasons for that. Spooney always looks like he's blowing bubbles after 5 minutes in every game I'm starting to wonder if he nips out for a fag during training. Deegan has got to lack match fitness and Cairney looks a wee bit heavy and has also stepped up a level.

I dare say that when those 3 get a bit fitter things will improve. But overall from what I have seen so far, including the 2nd half against Huddersfield ( forget the Dundee Utd match ) even if the fitness is a wee bit off the attitude certainly isnt.

[Geo_1875]

Like the OP and a few others on here I wasn't at the game yesterday. Unlike these posters I'll just keep quiet about something I know nothing about. Give it a ****ing break.

[blackpoolhibs]

I didn't make it to Paisley yesterday but I was at the Derby game. I've heard in both matches with 20 minutes to go -a few Hibs players blowing hard - completely knackered. In the Derby game I noticed Spoony in particular.

At this time of year the excuse usually trotted out is lack of match sharpness/ beginning of the season; in March/ April tired legs etc etc.

Don't know whether I'm being unkind, but with all the facilities that Hibs players have, I don't get why this seems a collective problem for us whereas other teams seem to be OK.

Too many pies?

I know JC was being revolutionary in SCotland with the diet and fitness regime he wanted to bring in (leading to player revolt), but we're never going to be anything in Europe if we do the bare minimum, and don't catch up. Elite sporting achievement (as seen in the Olympics) is only achieved by dedication and sacrifice and using all the information and technology at your disposal. We are talking about professional sportsmen here - the Hibs players that is.

So what's the deal at East Mains - do we have nutrition scientists or does any regime go out the window when the players go out to get blootered in Geroge Street of a Saturday night anyway??

I keep hearing how JC wanted us to be fitter, and indeed were fitter under him. Well i must have been watching a different team under Mowbray, as his team were full of kids who ran through brick walls, and the last thing i'd have said about his team was them lacking any fitness?

[Iggy Pope]

I remarked on the player rating / MoM thread that a few were tired at 70+mins, but also that the midfield had put in a tremendous shift and that it was roasting at Paisley yesterday.

A couple still getting to sharpness, but nothing to worry about. Some of the speculators on here need to get off their crystall ball-like keyboards and get to a game.......

[steviehibsleith]

Isnt that why we have a manager and a Subs bench ? If someone is struggling because they are unfit or given everything for 70 mins then surely should change it with fresh legs .

[Crab apple]

I didn't make it to Paisley yesterday but I was at the Derby game. I've heard in both matches with 20 minutes to go -a few Hibs players blowing hard - completely knackered. In the Derby game I noticed Spoony in particular.

At this time of year the excuse usually trotted out is lack of match sharpness/ beginning of the season; in March/ April tired legs etc etc.

Don't know whether I'm being unkind, but with all the facilities that Hibs players have, I don't get why this seems a collective problem for us whereas other teams seem to be OK.

Too many pies?

I know JC was being revolutionary in SCotland with the diet and fitness regime he wanted to bring in (leading to player revolt), but we're never going to be anything in Europe if we do the bare minimum, and don't catch up. Elite sporting achievement (as seen in the Olympics) is only achieved by dedication and sacrifice and using all the information and technology at your disposal. We are talking about professional sportsmen here - the Hibs players that is.

So what's the deal at East Mains - do we have nutrition scientists or does any regime go out the window when the players go out to get blootered in Geroge Street of a Saturday night anyway??

I was at the game yesterday and you ask a reasonable question. I thought in the first half we put in a huge amount of effort with Leigh and Doyle doing a lot of chasing and harrying. The pitch was one of the best surfaces I've seen in the SPL in a long time - bowling green perfect. We were unlucky not to be more than 1 up at half time. When St Mirren got their goal it forced us to defend but we coped well. As other posters have said Cairney and Deegan are still a bit short in terms of fitness but it's coming. Kuqi is probaly about as fit as me just now but he did hold the ball up well a couple of times and I'm sure his height was an advantage when we had to defend some corners late on. I went away from the game more optimistc than I've been for a long time. Special announcement also to the Saints for the choice of music - Stone Roses, Joy Division and Avicii.

[Brooster]

Spot on.



I remarked on the player rating / MoM thread that a few were tired at 70+mins, but also that the midfield had put in a tremendous shift and that it was roasting at Paisley yesterday.

A couple still getting to sharpness, but nothing to worry about. Some of the speculators on here need to get off their crystall ball-like keyboards and get to a game.......

[Bostonhibby]

Was there yesterday and I thought the heat played a part in this, Was with a mate who supports St Mirren and he actually said that Hibs midfield were the biggest change for him - they worked much harder than he expected and were pressing every chance they could - he remarked about Claros being much more involved. My view was the Cairneys got more to come but the rest definitely worked harder than St Mirren to get and stay in front.

Fitness wise overall I felt St Mirren we no better or worse than us really, they had to have a go and find something more. Watched Goodwin especially as I did not want him at Hibs, did nothing and I thought he was blowing oot his er*e after 20 minutes!

The last 20 minutes was about defending well and in a bit more depth than I would have liked but fact is we did it pretty well and got the breaks when previously we'd have collapsed for whatever reason.

I don't think we had any passengers yesterday, Deegan is exactly what's been needed. Williams did well, Griffiths makes me want to get up for the next game and feels like we all do about Hibs, Special mention for Clancy - outstanding going forward and some great defending.

Good day at the office, onward and upward.

[stalbanshibby]

I was at the game yesterday and you ask a reasonable question. I thought in the first half we put in a huge amount of effort with Leigh and Doyle doing a lot of chasing and harrying. The pitch was one of the best surfaces I've seen in the SPL in a long time - bowling green perfect. We were unlucky not to be more than 1 up at half time. When St Mirren got their goal it forced us to defend but we coped well. As other posters have said Cairney and Deegan are still a bit short in terms of fitness but it's coming. Kuqi is probaly about as fit as me just now but he did hold the ball up well a couple of times and I'm sure his height was an advantage when we had to defend some corners late on. I went away from the game more optimistc than I've been for a long time. Special announcement also to the Saints for the choice of music - Stone Roses, Joy Division and Avicii.

:top marks

I was listening to the St Mirren game on Hibs Radio and I'm with you and thanks for your post. On the evidence of the last couple of games, and I think Deegan has made a massive difference in midfield, we've shown more bite, desire and determination in a long time, and PF deserves full backing and seems to be on the right track. The Derby game was one of the most enjoyable games I've been to for a long time because we at least seemed to want to be hard to beat.

I suppose I was also making a wider point too about prevailing attitudes to fiitness within Hibs and Scottish clubs in general and I just wonder whether the elite training that was on offer to the GB Olympians is ultimately the way professional sport will go, and if so, are we far of the mark? I don't see why as an ST holder I shouldn't demand excellence, but I'm also glad that we seem to be going in the right direction and getting some results.

It can be a rough ride posting on here though.

[jacomo]

Thanks mate. Of course I was delighted with Hibs win yesterday, but you've put the point over that I was trying to make much point better than I did.

:aok:

Being no better or worse than St Mirren is something, of course. But, naively maybe, I had hoped our training facilities would have put clear distance between us and other teams by now. And if we are ever to play the kind of football we all want to see again... Hard work (inc fitness) is the starting point.

Arsene Wenger showed how it was done in England, and everyone else was forced to follow suit. I wonder if anyone will be able to have the same effect in Scotland? This new Dutch guy at the SFA (name?) seems to have some good ideas.

[stalbanshibby]

:aok:

Being no better or worse than St Mirren is something, of course. But, naively maybe, I had hoped our training facilities would have put clear distance between us and other teams by now. And if we are ever to play the kind of football we all want to see again... Hard work (inc fitness) is the starting point.

Arsene Wenger showed how it was done in England, and everyone else was forced to follow suit. I wonder if anyone will be able to have the same effect in Scotland? This new Dutch guy at the SFA (name?) seems to have some good ideas.

Mark Wotte. Dunno but hopefully. Yeah - East mains. It was Tony Mowbray's big idea - to move Hibs onto a more professional level, and fundamentally sound. But up to recently, I think the players have treated it like a spa weekend break. It seems PF's not taking any **** though. So here's hoping.

Thanks for your intelligence mate. There's precious little of it around this web site - full of smart arsed one liners and put downs.

Onwards and upwards.

[Jonnyboy]

I remarked on the player rating / MoM thread that a few were tired at 70+mins, but also that the midfield had put in a tremendous shift and that it was roasting at Paisley yesterday.

A couple still getting to sharpness, but nothing to worry about. Some of the speculators on here need to get off their crystall ball-like keyboards and get to a game.......

Exactly. They looked tired because they had worked so hard to protect what they had and unlike in many games last season, they succeeded in doing just that

[Ultrabee1-0]

Fitness plays a big part in a game gives you that extra edge and sharpness, its the 3rd game in we are going to be a bit slow, go to remember deegan never got played much last season, cairney stepped up, spoony he's just unfit! Doyle not much game time either, & maybury is getting old, the fitness I good but can be improved not nothing to worry about tho especially if the results are coming our way

[J-C]

Exactly. They looked tired because they had worked so hard to protect what they had and unlike in many games last season, they succeeded in doing just that

As I stated in a previous post, not having enough quality on the bench doesn't help, when your midfield has run itself ragged, you need to replace them for that vital last 20 mins.

We've lost Osbourne, Soars, Scott, Murray and Stevenson to injury..........................these guys needed replaced but also cover was needed also.

We still need a couple of midfielders to act as cover for the 1st choice, noticed the subs on saturday were 2 strikers and a right winger, probably not the replacements needed when the midfield was flagging.

[Jonnyboy]

As I stated in a previous post, not having enough quality on the bench doesn't help, when your midfield has run itself ragged, you need to replace them for that vital last 20 mins.

We've lost Osbourne, Soars, Scott, Murray and Stevenson to injury..........................these guys needed replaced but also cover was needed also.

We still need a couple of midfielders to act as cover for the 1st choice, noticed the subs on saturday were 2 strikers and a right winger, probably not the replacements needed when the midfield was flagging.

No arguments from me on that one JC :agree: