Pat F on attracting players

[Crab apple]

Good interview with Pat in the Scotsman today. Talks about healing the wounds from May and also the unfairness of Sevco signing players after what Rangers did. I'm intrigued though by his comment 'There are other clubs in our own division who are paying a bit more money than us. That's frustrating, the players are basically telling us that they are going somewhere else because they are getting more money. That's the usual gist of the conversation. You want people to to want to come here, but obviously they have to be looked after from a financial point of view. I understand players have to get the best deals'

Who are the other SPL clubs who pay more? Celtic clearly won't be looking at the same players as us. So is it just the Yams and Dons?

[Jim Scotts hat trick]

Good interview with Pat in the Scotsman today. Talks about healing the wounds from May and also the unfairness of Sevco signing players after what Rangers did. I'm intrigued though by his comment 'There are other clubs in our own division who are paying a bit more money than us. That's frustrating, the players are basically telling us that they are going somewhere else because they are getting more money. That's the usual gist of the conversation. You want people to to want to come here, but obviously they have to be looked after from a financial point of view. I understand players have to get the best deals'

Who are the other SPL clubs who pay more? Celtic clearly won't be looking at the same players as us. So is it just the Yams and Dons?

And now sevco..

[BEEJ]

Good interview with Pat in the Scotsman today. Talks about healing the wounds from May and also the unfairness of Sevco signing players after what Rangers did. I'm intrigued though by his comment 'There are other clubs in our own division who are paying a bit more money than us. That's frustrating, the players are basically telling us that they are going somewhere else because they are getting more money. That's the usual gist of the conversation. You want people to to want to come here, but obviously they have to be looked after from a financial point of view. I understand players have to get the best deals'

Who are the other SPL clubs who pay more? Celtic clearly won't be looking at the same players as us. So is it just the Yams and Dons?
Neither the Yams nor Celtic have signed anyone new so far in this summer window.

[Billy Whizz]

We lost Hayes to Aberdeen, anyone else we've lost to an SPL team?

[Greentinted]

For folks who haven't yet had a wee squatch

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/pat-fenlon-lays-into-rangers-for-cash-splash-after-liquidation-1-2462819 (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/pat-fenlon-lays-into-rangers-for-cash-splash-after-liquidation-1-2462819)

[BEEJ]

And now sevco..
" other clubs in our own division.." is the key phrase in the para quoted by the OP.

[Thecat23]

Dons? St Johnston? Not long ago a few on here kept telling us it's rubbish other clubs outwith Yans and Celtic pay more. Well it's from the horses mouth so I'd be interested to know your thoughts on this now? More defending of our signing policy or do you finally realise we pay peanuts?

[Spike Mandela]

We may have a bigger budget than many clubs but doesn't mean we are offering better deals.

A simplified example. Say we had £1m to spend on players but had to buy 10 players to shore up a weak squad we could offer £100k deals. Dundee Utd might only have £750k budget but only need 5 players to augment already talented squad hence offer £150k deals.

Simplified and inaccurate figures but symbolises where I think we are with the mismanagement of football matters at ER.

[Hibercelona]

Good interview with Pat in the Scotsman today. Talks about healing the wounds from May and also the unfairness of Sevco signing players after what Rangers did. I'm intrigued though by his comment 'There are other clubs in our own division who are paying a bit more money than us. That's frustrating, the players are basically telling us that they are going somewhere else because they are getting more money. That's the usual gist of the conversation. You want people to to want to come here, but obviously they have to be looked after from a financial point of view. I understand players have to get the best deals'

Who are the other SPL clubs who pay more? Celtic clearly won't be looking at the same players as us. So is it just the Yams and Dons?

Is it possible that we don't offer as much to players as we're lead to believe?

We should currently be the 3rd highest in the SPL in terms of wages considering our size, but thinking back to all the dross we've signed over the last several seasons, i'm not convinced that we're even in the top 6.

How do people on here get a hold of players wage info anyway? I couldn't imagine any players talking to random fans about how much they earn.

[FifeHibernian]

Craig Brown was saying that he's very lucky to have been afforded the amount of money he has this window so it could well be aberdeen

[Jim Scotts hat trick]

" other clubs in our own division.." is the key phrase in the para quoted by the OP.

Well spotted i wondered who would be the first to notice my deliberate mistake.

[PeterboroHibee]

By other clubs, I think he just means Aberdeen with Hayes.

If it isnt just Aberdeen however, him saying other SPL clubs are paying more, does that mean they are paying more than we can physically afford, more than we are willing to offer in terms of the clubs valuation of whatever player we are looking at, or that Fenlons not being allowed to sign players above a certain wage (even if the money is there)?

[Magnifique]

We may have a bigger budget than many clubs but doesn't mean we are offering better deals.

A simplified example. Say we had £1m to spend on players but had to buy 10 players to shore up a weak squad we could offer £100k deals. Dundee Utd might only have £750k budget but only need 5 players to augment already talented squad hence offer £150k deals.

Simplified and inaccurate figures but symbolises where I think we are with the mismanagement of football matters at ER.


I also wonder how well we sell the club and our ambitions to would be players. Pat doesn't really come over as a good salesman and he has no real status in world football to fall back on and then we offer them buttons they tell us to bolt, of course they do. We need a strachan type Director of football (even if only on a retainer) and we simply have to compete NOBODY outside sellick and the lemmings should be offering anything near what we offer. If not were heading for the abyss

[GordonHFC]

We may still have a bigger budget than others but the fact we have had to bring in more players than others means it is spread a little thinner.

[matty_f]

We may still have a bigger budget than others but the fact we have had to bring in more players than others means it is spread a little thinner.

:agree:

[down-the-slope]

I also wonder how well we sell the club and our ambitions to would be players. Pat doesn't really come over as a good salesman and he has no real status in world football to fall back on and then we offer them buttons they tell us to bolt, of course they do. We need a strachan type Director of football (even if only on a retainer) and we simply have to compete NOBODY outside sellick and the lemmings should be offering anything near what we offer. If not were heading for the abyss

So when PF said after signing Williams that he had better offers (financially in England) but he still chose us - what do you make of that?

[BEEJ]

We may still have a bigger budget than others but the fact we have had to bring in more players than others means it is spread a little thinner.
But if we've released 15 or 16 players (more than other teams), does that not free up a substantial salary budget to be used on the new arrivals?

[Magnifique]

So when PF said after signing Williams that he had better offers (financially in England) but he still chose us - what do you make of that?


So why are the rest not signing up then?

He's openly admitted he's tried for plenty and been constantly turned down, moneys no doubt the main reason but if you have say a sauzee or a strachan or a mcleish involved in the negotiations maybe it's easier to persuade them to come

Just my opinion

[LeighLoyal]

the SFA allowing Sevco to sign players is still pretty breathtaking when many, including some on here, consider them a continuation of RFC and therefore fully liable for the debts due to member clubs. UEFA should fine the SFA very heavily for their shameless pandering to Sevco... sorry, "The Rangers", and their media.

[Del Boy]

Maybe Millar who went to utd from Falkirk??

[Mark79]

So when PF said after signing Williams that he had better offers (financially in England) but he still chose us - what do you make of that?

They always say that. IMHO. He came to us as he would be a number 1. If he went to a championship team he would be an understudy.

[The Falcon]

We may have a bigger budget than many clubs but doesn't mean we are offering better deals.

A simplified example. Say we had £1m to spend on players but had to buy 10 players to shore up a weak squad we could offer £100k deals. Dundee Utd might only have £750k budget but only need 5 players to augment already talented squad hence offer £150k deals.

Simplified and inaccurate figures but symbolises where I think we are with the mismanagement of football matters at ER.


We may still have a bigger budget than others but the fact we have had to bring in more players than others means it is spread a little thinner.


:agree:


Do the other clubs not have to pay the players that already there out of their budget? :cb

[Spike Mandela]

Do the other clubs not have to pay the players that already there out of their budget? :cb

Yes, unfortunately we have to pay the players that are already at our club as well:cb

[BEEJ]

Yes, unfortunately we have to pay the players that are already at our club as well:cb
Which, because we got rid of more players than the other clubs, was a lesser on-going salary commitment than they had. :cb

[Onceinawhile]

I think one of the problems we have is the c. £408,000 we pay to our board. I don't think many other teams pay that much. It equates to over £7,500 a week.

[Spike Mandela]

Which, because we got rid of more players than the other clubs, was a lesser on-going salary commitment than they had. :cb

Every club, every club has a large list of players leaving. Our main competitors budget wise Hearts, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd held on to a better quality core of players who needed augmented with a few players here and there. We held on to a core of players who finished 11th last year, most on here would agree our team needed to improve more than most.:cb:cb

[AlbertK86]

Could he be referring to st midden re Jim Goodwin in Jan

[GordonHFC]

Do the other clubs not have to pay the players that already there out of their budget? :cb
Yes they do but they have not had to pay any fees which I believe we have on possibly 2 occasions.

[AlbertK86]

Yes they do but they have not had to pay any fees which I believe we have on possibly 2 occasions.

You can balance that with the fees we got for Ozzy and our cut from Bamba

[GordonHFC]

You can balance that with the fees we got for Ozzy and our cut from Bamba

Agreed Stuart if we can be certain that money went back into the signings pot ?

[AlbertK86]

Agreed Stuart if we can be certain that money went back into the signings pot ?

Yep that is a very big if

[BEEJ]

Our main competitors budget wise Hearts, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd held on to a better quality core of players who needed augmented with a few players here and there. We held on to a core of players who finished 11th last year, most on here would agree our team needed to improve more than most.:cb:cb
Indeed. But in that reapect, your example earlier on in this thread is misleading.

If The Arabs, with a lower salary budget than ours, only needed to bring in five players to make up their squad and Hibs with their greater salary budget needed to bring in 10 players for the same reason, then (based on averages) the money available for Hibs to spend on new players' salaries would be more than twice that available to The Arabs.

:cb:cb:cb

[matty_f]

Indeed. But in that reapect, your example earlier on in this thread is misleading.

If The Arabs, with a lower salary budget than ours, only needed to bring in five players to make up their squad and Hibs with their greater salary budget needed to bring in 10 players for the same reason, then (based on averages) the money available for Hibs to spend on new players' salaries would be more than twice that available to The Arabs.

:cb:cb:cb
Assuming the salary budget remained consistent, no?

I think whilst committing the entire season ticket income to Fenlon, the overall wage budget will need to come much closer to the recommended salary/turnover ratio of c60%, which we have significantly surpassed in recent seasons. We may still maintain the % or take a small drop, but with turnover down then the wages spend would also likely be down as well. My understanding is that it is not solely season ticket money that goes to the wages, just that we guarantee that it every penny of season ticket money is spent on wages.

If that were to be the case, then the wage reduction from releasing players would not necessarily correspond with a similar amount becoming available to spend.

[Eyrie]

I don't think there was as much of a saving from the released players as everyone seems to think. Most of them were loan players who were added to the squad in January and therefore increased the wage cost for 11/12 over and above that originally budgeted.

I think we're now back to having the same wages budget as at the start of last season, so the only money available for additions arises from our own players leaving. And as has been said, that isn't a lot of room when you consider how many players we need to strengthen the team.