Camilla Tominey Sunday Express - Insulting scotland and everything Scottish

[Skanko79]

this wench should be sacked - disgusting.

http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/335983/The-patriot-games-losers

[Twa Cairpets]

this wench should be sacked - disgusting.

http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/335983/The-patriot-games-losers

I'm now at age where I cease to be outraged by this type of trolling stupidity.

The casual offence being thrown about by a columnist pandering to her readership is hardly surprising, and is passively laughable rather than actively insulting.

[RyeSloan]

I'm now at age where I cease to be outraged by this type of trolling stupidity.

The casual offence being thrown about by a columnist pandering to her readership is hardly surprising, and is passively laughable rather than actively insulting.


It is cringworthy and if similar columns were printed in relation to more traditionally recognised ethnic minorities there would be a substantial backlash I am sure.

But personally I agree with you though...trolling stupidity sums it up nicely.

[Skanko79]

It is cringworthy and if similar columns were printed in relation to more traditionally recognised ethnic minorities there would be a substantial backlash I am sure.

But personally I agree with you though...trolling stupidity sums it up nicely.

mo farrah never even attempted to mumble a word of the anthem. imagine the uproar if her coolumn was about him?

shocking.

[Hainan Hibs]

I've grown use to these type of articles now we have a referendum, it's all very toys out the pram material because one of the colonies has had the audacity to question their glorious membership to the Empire.

It does irk me however that Scotland and Scots are considered fair game in the media, you can literally get away with just about anything. What would the reaction be if instead of kilt-wearing she typed turban-wearing?

[Scouse Hibee]

No medals are won for singing national anthems so she can **** right off!

[easty]

It's a poorly written article that barely deserves to be talked about. The journalistic equivalent of Kerry Katona or Jordan doing anything they can for a bit of attention.


If Little is proud only to be Scottish but not British then I question why she is in Team GB at all.

Eh.....because she wanted to win a medal and that was the only chance she had, perhaps?


I'd like to think that, if I was fortunate enough to be competing at the Olympic Games, when asked why I didn't sing along to God Save The Queen I would say because I'm Scottish, it's not my anthem and then go off on a little rant about how the monarchy has no place in a modern day society so I completely disagree with the lyrics. I wonder what kind of reaction that would provoke in some of the journalists? It almost makes me want to qualify for the next Olympics, just to find out....is Football Manager going to be in the next Olympics? Or Black Ops on the Playstation?

[Skanko79]

if fm made it to the olympics, and to be honest it would probably be a bit more entertaining watching some guys play that than some of the tosh they have i reckon id be in the medals like.

[Phil D. Rolls]

What an absolute pitiful piece of garbage, written by a journo in a rush to get her kids from the child minder. She could only have bettered it by finishing off with "will this do?".

Couple of lame attempts to slag off a nation by what they eat (very English that); some tosh about helping us out when we need a hand - yeah, they rushed up here in the 80s to rescue us from Thatcher; and finally, being guilty of paying attention to what a stupid girl from Aberdeenshire does.

It's right up there with the Black Panther salute in 68, and the massacre at Munich in 1972. Shut the doors naebody leaves till this is sorted oot!

[Hibrandenburg]

Badly written and factually inaccurate. It all helps the cause for Scottish independence though, so keep on trolling.

[VickMackie]

How many English winners didn't sing the anthem? Have they been criticised?

What about Greg Rutherford? He seems like a cool guy so not having a go but he didn't sing it.

[cocopops1875]

Although not overly bothered by what she has to say i do question the "caber tossing" line, i mean would she get away with talking about an african country and suggesting the javlin as a sport they would be good at :rolleyes:

[BarneyK]

mo farrah never even attempted to mumble a word of the anthem. imagine the uproar if her coolumn was about him?

shocking.

Half the national footballers dinnae sing Flower of Scotland either. She really needs to get out more.

[DaveF]

Anyone with a handle of Camilla is bound to be so far up their own arse that what they write would only find agreement at the local horse and hounds club.

[Beefster]

Columnists write stuff to provoke a reaction and get folk talking about them/their writing. It works a lot of the time.

[Big Ed]

An Olympic medal winner doesn't sing the national anthem: that's bad.

She's Scottish: **** me it gets worse.

Her Grandfather supports the SNP and he's backing the bitch: sweet Jesus!!

[Bookkeeper]

A nonsense opinion in a nonsense publication.

[Hibbyradge]

The reason the Scots and Welsh don't sing it is because it's the English Anthem too.

I wonder if she would sing Land of my Fathers?

She's right about one thing, though.

The "Rebellious Scots" verse has never been in the national anthem.

[PeeJay]

Why all this bother suddenly about everyone having to sing the national anthem - people never used to do it, when did it become compulsory? Standing to attention while the anthem played as a sign of respect was good enough for most of us for decades, wasn't it?

Even here in Germany some people now complain about players such as Podolski, Klose, Özil (or in fact anyone!) who doesn't sing the national anthem with all the right words, in the right order, at the right volume and the right tune...so, what's going on?

[steakbake]

Why all this bother suddenly about everyone having to sing the national anthem - people never used to do it, when did it become compulsory? Standing to attention while the anthem played as a sign of respect was good enough for most of us for decades, wasn't it?

Even here in Germany some people now complain about players such as Podolski, Klose, Özil (or in fact anyone!) who doesn't sing the national anthem with all the right words, in the right order, at the right volume and the right tune...so, what's going on?




Now you have to be seen to be patriotic, because the reactionary element in society doesn't know who to trust any more.

It's not enough to be representing your country or winning it a medal. Now you have to be seen to sing the wee song as well.

As for the undignified, infantile scramble to claim the carcass of the Olympics for the union/nationalist causes: this is the very reason why politicians deserve nothing but contempt and ridicule.

[HibsMax]

Definitely a See You Next Tuesday, IMO.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Fatima Whitbread says if you compete for GB you should be proud to be British. Why? For every athlete born in the UK its compete under the British flag or not at all, so its not like they have a choice. You cant make people proud of something FFS.

On the point of rubbish reporting ... not to mention crass hypocricy checK out the Mail on Sunday. A big picture of Mo Farah on the front page .... the son of Somali immigrants ( probably asylum seekers, though I cant prove that ) you know, the sort of folk the Mail would love to see denied entry to the UK or even deported .... All conveniently forgotten when its 'GOLD FOR GREAT BRITAIN' dont ya know.

Then of course theres page 6 in which their 'Scottish Editor?' regails against Alex Salmond by going on and on about how the Scots who won medals in London were only able to do so because of the fantastic facilities available to them as part of the UK .. Chris Hoy trains in Manchester at the fantastic Veladrome there and Andy Murray trains down south at the fantastic home counties tennis facility etc etc.

Well if its so great being part of the UK why are there no facilities of a sufficient standard in Scotland for them to train at. It appears that being part of the UK gets us a pass to use Englands super facilities ... But not enough money from the oh so benevolent UK government to build our own.

Scotland ...... the only country in history to discover oil and get poorer.

[RyeSloan]

Fatima Whitbread says if you compete for GB you should be proud to be British. Why? For every athlete born in the UK its compete under the British flag or not at all, so its not like they have a choice. You cant make people proud of something FFS.

On the point of rubbish reporting ... not to mention crass hypocricy checK out the Mail on Sunday. A big picture of Mo Farah on the front page .... the son of Somali immigrants ( probably asylum seekers, though I cant prove that ) you know, the sort of folk the Mail would love to see denied entry to the UK or even deported .... All conveniently forgotten when its 'GOLD FOR GREAT BRITAIN' dont ya know.

Then of course theres page 6 in which their 'Scottish Editor?' regails against Alex Salmond by going on and on about how the Scots who won medals in London were only able to do so because of the fantastic facilities available to them as part of the UK .. Chris Hoy trains in Manchester at the fantastic Veladrome there and Andy Murray trains down south at the fantastic home counties tennis facility etc etc.

Well if its so great being part of the UK why are there no facilities of a sufficient standard in Scotland for them to train at. It appears that being part of the UK gets us a pass to use Englands super facilities ... But not enough money from the oh so benevolent UK government to build our own.

Scotland ...... the only country in history to discover oil and get poorer.

While I take some of your posts points I think it's also fair to say that on some occasions it's clear to see that Scottish athletes have benefitted from being part of the overall team GB set up. Although this is really a collection of different sports and not an overall collective I'm absolutely positive people like Chris Hoy would say that being able to be part of and supported by British Cycling has been a key driver of his success. I would say it's a fair comment to suggest that an independent Scotland only approach to all of these sports could not or would not be able to be as effective in the same way.

Thing that confused me though is why you think Scotland today is poorer than it was in 1970? What measure have you used to come to that conclusion? :confused:

[RyeSloan]

Now you have to be seen to be patriotic, because the reactionary element in society doesn't know who to trust any more.

It's not enough to be representing your country or winning it a medal. Now you have to be seen to sing the wee song as well.

As for the undignified, infantile scramble to claim the carcass of the Olympics for the union/nationalist causes: this is the very reason why politicians deserve nothing but contempt and ridicule.

Almost as undignified as some people not wanting to admit that the Olympics did actually show that athletes from all corners of the UK could come together under one banner and be a substantial force. Many of them have moved to centres of excellence to train and hone their skills, most of which are not in their home 'country' as they require a particular concentration of talent and coaching that can't be replicated 4 or 5 times around the UK.

I would suggest quite strongly that Team GB did show how a sum of the parts can be greater that the total of the parts alone, however awkward that may be for independence fetishists across the UK :greengrin

[Twa Cairpets]

Almost as undignified as some people not wanting to admit that the Olympics did actually show that athletes from all corners of the UK could come together under one banner and be a substantial force. Many of them have moved to centres of excellence to train and hone their skills, most of which are not in their home 'country' as they require a particular concentration of talent and coaching that can't be replicated 4 or 5 times around the UK.

I would suggest quite strongly that Team GB did show how a sum of the parts can be greater that the total of the parts alone, however awkward that may be for independence fetishists across the UK :greengrin

I don't think it particularly relevant that an individuals ability to jump marginally further into a box of sand, pedal round a velodrome or splash about a bit quickly is an argument one way or another for independence. Even more of an irrelevant argument especially when Mo Farah has been in Oregon for the last few years, and Murray was trained in Barcelona. As for "all coming together", yes, fine, but its the same with the Ryder Cup. Raging Europhobes suddenly become "we're all against the yanks". It's irrelevant, and it has no bearing on our ability to be a stand alone country.

[steakbake]

Almost as undignified as some people not wanting to admit that the Olympics did actually show that athletes from all corners of the UK could come together under one banner and be a substantial force. Many of them have moved to centres of excellence to train and hone their skills, most of which are not in their home 'country' as they require a particular concentration of talent and coaching that can't be replicated 4 or 5 times around the UK.

I would suggest quite strongly that Team GB did show how a sum of the parts can be greater that the total of the parts alone, however awkward that may be for independence fetishists across the UK :greengrin

I don't think it's necessarily that and that wasn't really the point of my post - I included Unionists and Nationalists in it.

Fact of the matter is that many athletes have to live away from home to pursue their training. I don't think that diminishes their home country at all, but neither does it contribute anything to the debate.

Specifically, I mean for people like Douglas Alexander to crow that Team GB success equates to the political idea of the Union. Or for Nationalists to get chippy because they are "Scottish" medals.

Morrissey was partially right in saying that the country was "foul with patriotism". Some of the commentary has gone beyond appreciation for sporting success to being jingoistic, flag waving idiocy.

What I took from the Olympics, as perhaps trite as it may sound, is that despite all the flag waving, the songs and the unaccountable pride because you come from a particular section of an arbitrary map, we are one planet, one people and are all human. To use it to score points about our own internal political debates, I think, has missed entirely the point of all the nations of earth coming together in the spectacle we've just seen. It cheapens us, regardless of how we view our own situation.

[NAE NOOKIE]

While I take some of your posts points I think it's also fair to say that on some occasions it's clear to see that Scottish athletes have benefitted from being part of the overall team GB set up. Although this is really a collection of different sports and not an overall collective I'm absolutely positive people like Chris Hoy would say that being able to be part of and supported by British Cycling has been a key driver of his success. I would say it's a fair comment to suggest that an independent Scotland only approach to all of these sports could not or would not be able to be as effective in the same way.

Thing that confused me though is why you think Scotland today is poorer than it was in 1970? What measure have you used to come to that conclusion? :confused:

A few examples .. got to leave for work in 5 mins, so have to be brief, Its mostly the lack of infrastructure that bugs me .

The main motorway from Edinburgh to Glasgow is a duel carriadegway. The main road from Edinburgh to England the A1 is near enough a B road. How does that reflect our oil riches?

In standard of living I'm sure things are better than the 70s but I dont see any difference between us and the rest of western Europe in that regard.

[RyeSloan]

A few examples .. got to leave for work in 5 mins, so have to be brief, Its mostly the lack of infrastructure that bugs me .

The main motorway from Edinburgh to Glasgow is a duel carriadegway. The main road from Edinburgh to England the A1 is near enough a B road. How does that reflect our oil riches?

In standard of living I'm sure things are better than the 70s but I dont see any difference between us and the rest of western Europe in that regard.

The M8 is a disgrace I agree however it has not regressed since 1970 in fact it has been extended and upgraded...don't see how that makes Scotland poorer

The A1 to England is nothing like a B road...have you driven it recently? It is significantly dual carriageway to the border and it's the stretch between the border and Newcastle that has the clearest need for upgrade...no sign of Scotland getting poorer there either I'm afraid. You also failed to mention the excellent M74 which has recently been connected to the rest of the motorway network via the M8 at great expense.

While I agree that Scotlands infrastructure is far from perfect there is no way on earht you can say it is poorer than it was in 1970.

You also suggest that our standard of living is higher, which suggests the nation as a whole is richer not poorer therefore I'm still confused as to what measure you have used to come to the conclusion; "Scotland ...... the only country in history to discover oil and get poorer"

[ginger_rice]

The M8 is a disgrace I agree however it has not regressed since 1970 in fact it has been extended and upgraded...don't see how that makes Scotland poorer

The A1 to England is nothing like a B road...have you driven it recently? It is significantly dual carriageway to the border and it's the stretch between the border and Newcastle that has the clearest need for upgrade...no sign of Scotland getting poorer there either I'm afraid. You also failed to mention the excellent M74 which has recently been connected to the rest of the motorway network via the M8 at great expense.

While I agree that Scotlands infrastructure is far from perfect there is no way on earht you can say it is poorer than it was in 1970.

You also suggest that our standard of living is higher, which suggests the nation as a whole is richer not poorer therefore I'm still confused as to what measure you have used to come to the conclusion; "Scotland ...... the only country in history to discover oil and get poorer"

I think this is a difficult one to quantify, there is however a feeling that in many countries where oil has been discovered, there has been a great deal of investment in things such as schools, hospitals , roads etc, this was certainly the case or assumed to be the case in many of the gulf states. Although that has to be considered with the counter claim that there was (and still is) grinding poverty for many opposed to vast wealth for a few in many of these countries too. I'd also question if the argument still holds when looking at some of the former Soviet states as well, does Azerbaijan have fantastic infrastructure?

You do have to wonder though as to what country Scotland would be like now if we'd had all of the oil revenue to spend since the '70's, and that for me is where the "only country to strike oil and become poorer" has it's roots. One thing for certain is that we'd have had no PPP/PFI rip off's!

[Eyrie]

You do have to wonder though as to what country Scotland would be like now if we'd had all of the oil revenue to spend since the '70's, and that for me is where the "only country to strike oil and become poorer" has it's roots. One thing for certain is that we'd have had no PPP/PFI rip off's!

I think a better question would be to ask what sort of a country (UK or Scotland) we'd have now if some of that oil revenue had been placed in a sovereign wealth fund as Norway did, rather than being used by successive governments to subsidise their short term agendas.

[Hibrandenburg]

I think a better question would be to ask what sort of a country (UK or Scotland) we'd have now if some of that oil revenue had been placed in a sovereign wealth fund as Norway did, rather than being used by successive governments to subsidise their short term agendas.
This. Norway is what Scotland could have been.

[Future17]

One thing for certain is that we'd have had no PPP/PFI rip off's!

I get texts every second day telling me I can claim a refund for these premiums I have paid out. Maybe we could try the same thing as a country. :dunno:

[Eyrie]

This. Norway is what Scotland could have been.
But none of the politicians over here showed sufficient insight to plan ahead.

And it won't happen if Scotland votes for independence because the SNP have committed the oil revenue to both corporation tax cuts and increased public spending, so there will be nothing left for their claims that we could still build up such a reserve.

[Hibrandenburg]

But none of the politicians over here showed sufficient insight to plan ahead.

And it won't happen if Scotland votes for independence because the SNP have committed the oil revenue to both corporation tax cuts and increased public spending, so there will be nothing left for their claims that we could still build up such a reserve.

Aye, why I said could have been. Just got back from Norway and there's so much we could learn from them.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The M8 is a disgrace I agree however it has not regressed since 1970 in fact it has been extended and upgraded...don't see how that makes Scotland poorer

The A1 to England is nothing like a B road...have you driven it recently? It is significantly dual carriageway to the border and it's the stretch between the border and Newcastle that has the clearest need for upgrade...no sign of Scotland getting poorer there either I'm afraid. You also failed to mention the excellent M74 which has recently been connected to the rest of the motorway network via the M8 at great expense.

While I agree that Scotlands infrastructure is far from perfect there is no way on earht you can say it is poorer than it was in 1970.

You also suggest that our standard of living is higher, which suggests the nation as a whole is richer not poorer therefore I'm still confused as to what measure you have used to come to the conclusion; "Scotland ...... the only country in history to discover oil and get poorer"

Compared to Norway, we haven't done as well. I think though, the real discussion should be about how the poorest parts of the UK are probably in a worse state now, despite the fact that this country has made a fortune out of oil.

The people of the UK have been robbed, because a fairer distribution of the wealth would have put us on a par with Scandanavian countries. For one thing, we should never have been in a position where we had to borrow money to build hospitals and schools. The money that has paid for villas in the Algarve and Tuscany should have been directed into our own economy.

[Hainan Hibs]

But none of the politicians over here showed sufficient insight to plan ahead.

And it won't happen if Scotland votes for independence because the SNP have committed the oil revenue to both corporation tax cuts and increased public spending, so there will be nothing left for their claims that we could still build up such a reserve.

IF the SNP are in power though. With independence we could have other parties in power with different policies, maybe a resurgence of the Labour party (I'm here all week:greengrin) or someone else if the SNP does indeed split so independence doesn't mean a rubber stamp on SNP policies.

Having enjoyed a trip to Scandinavia you feel as if you are on a different planet nevermind a different part of Europe. I'm half way through my TeachYourself Norwegian book in preparation for the escape north:greengrin

I wouldn't suggest that oil should have waved a magic wand over the country, however I do think it is a disgrace the level of fuel poverty we have, with pensioners scared to turn on heating in winter, when we are one of the most energy rich nations in Europe.

[Just Alf]

Mo Farrah trained in the states so no sure where that helps the politicos arguments (whateverside)

And re transport.... the fact the A1 degrades down to a single carriageway (with yet another serious, possibly fatal accident at the weekend) as it leaves Scotland shows that any common policy, if there is one, just isn't working..... each area just looks after itself.

[ginger_rice]

I think a better question would be to ask what sort of a country (UK or Scotland) we'd have now if some of that oil revenue had been placed in a sovereign wealth fund as Norway did, rather than being used by successive governments to subsidise their short term agendas.

:agree:

[marinello59]

I'm now at age where I cease to be outraged by this type of trolling stupidity.

The casual offence being thrown about by a columnist pandering to her readership is hardly surprising, and is passively laughable rather than actively insulting.
:agree:
She has done really well here as she has managed to get just the reaction and attention that she wanted.

[ginger_rice]

Mo Farrah trained in the states so no sure where that helps the politicos arguments (whateverside)

And re transport.... the fact the A1 degrades down to a single carriageway (with yet another serious, possibly fatal accident at the weekend) as it leaves Scotland shows that any common policy, if there is one, just isn't working..... each area just looks after itself.

IIRC when there was a similar problem upgrading the Cumberland gap on the M74, the Department of Transport stated that if Scotland wanted the road upgraded then Scotland should pay for it, even though the particular part of the road was within their jurisdiction in other words as the road was leaving England they weren't interested.

Over the last 30 or more years the oil revenues should have (as a minimum) paid for these upgrades, (the A9, A75 and A77 included), instead of paying for the wholesale decimation of our manufacturing and engineering base, together with the mass unemployment that led to, especially in the '80s. You neverknow there may have even been money left over for trams!

[marinello59]

IIRC when there was a similar problem upgrading the Cumberland gap on the M74, the Department of Transport stated that if Scotland wanted the road upgraded then Scotland should pay for it, even though the particular part of the road was within their jurisdiction in other words as the road was leaving England they weren't interested.

Do you have any links to articles on that?

[--------]

:agree:
She has done really well here as she has managed to get just the reaction and attention that she wanted.


INDEED. A Camilla writing in the Sunday Express? What did anyone expect?

Why on earth was the OP reading the poisonous racist rag in the first place?

[RyeSloan]

Compared to Norway, we haven't done as well. I think though, the real discussion should be about how the poorest parts of the UK are probably in a worse state now, despite the fact that this country has made a fortune out of oil.

The people of the UK have been robbed, because a fairer distribution of the wealth would have put us on a par with Scandanavian countries. For one thing, we should never have been in a position where we had to borrow money to build hospitals and schools. The money that has paid for villas in the Algarve and Tuscany should have been directed into our own economy.

I'm interested to know how much of the UK oil wealth that is paid to the UK treasury has paid for villas in the Alrgarve and Tuscany compared to be used to reduce Government budget deficits which have been as a result of a democratically elected governments public spending of which over 70% is on education, health, welfare and pensions.

I'm also interested to know what you consider to be a 'worse state'....is it not true that these areas you refer to (which I assume are traditional heavy industry/mining areas of the "north" and Wales and parts of Scotland) have seen a considerable rise in public sector employment as a percentage of the workforce to the point that the public sector makes up around or over 50% of GDP. Is this not the re-distribution of wealth you talk about on on a grand scale?

[RyeSloan]

IIRC when there was a similar problem upgrading the Cumberland gap on the M74, the Department of Transport stated that if Scotland wanted the road upgraded then Scotland should pay for it, even though the particular part of the road was within their jurisdiction in other words as the road was leaving England they weren't interested.

Over the last 30 or more years the oil revenues should have (as a minimum) paid for these upgrades, (the A9, A75 and A77 included), instead of paying for the wholesale decimation of our manufacturing and engineering base, together with the mass unemployment that led to, especially in the '80s. You neverknow there may have even been money left over for trams!


How did the oil revenues pay for "the wholesale decimation of our manufacturing and engineering base"...is that the same engineering base that UK companies like GKN and Rolls Royce lead the global market place in? Also if these enterprises were no longer able to support themselves without government support how much oil money would have been needed to subsidise low skill manufacturing in the UK to make it competitive against the rise of China and the effective movement of goods created by the globalised container industry? Or are you suggesting that a UK government deliberately set out to destroy part of it's economy using dole money to people made deliberately redundant merely because they had oil revenues to do so???

I agree though that central government should focus much more on delivering large scale infrastructure that can provide significant long term economic benefits to the country, that is probably the most useful thing I can think of central government doing...I doubt however that the UK public would ever countenance the fact that to do this some of the other spending taps would have to be turned off and there is the issue. The entitlement state created in the UK has prevented any such moves towards long term spending at the cost of short term spending and even worse the burden of supporting that entitlement state has resulted in the UK diverting the use of what should be long term borrowing for long term benefits into funding it's short term liabilities.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm interested to know how much of the UK oil wealth that is paid to the UK treasury has paid for villas in the Alrgarve and Tuscany compared to be used to reduce Government budget deficits which have been as a result of a democratically elected governments public spending of which over 70% is on education, health, welfare and pensions.

I'm also interested to know what you consider to be a 'worse state'....is it not true that these areas you refer to (which I assume are traditional heavy industry/mining areas of the "north" and Wales and parts of Scotland) have seen a considerable rise in public sector employment as a percentage of the workforce to the point that the public sector makes up around or over 50% of GDP. Is this not the re-distribution of wealth you talk about on on a grand scale?

Look, if you are going to get into petty issues like evidence and proof, I'm afraid I'm out. I haven't got a clue to be honest. :flamed:

This place used to be fun. :dummytit:

[RyeSloan]

Look, if you are going to get into petty issues like evidence and proof, I'm afraid I'm out. I haven't got a clue to be honest. :flamed:

This place used to be fun. :dummytit:

Damn I was hoping you might help me get my hands on one of those Algarve fellies as well..... :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Damn I was hoping you might help me get my hands on one of those Algarve fellies as well..... :greengrin

(cough) Cliff Richard (cough)

[degenerated]

What an absolute pitiful piece of garbage, written by a journo in a rush to get her kids from the child minder. She could only have bettered it by finishing off with "will this do?".

Couple of lame attempts to slag off a nation by what they eat (very English that); some tosh about helping us out when we need a hand - yeah, they rushed up here in the 80s to rescue us from Thatcher; and finally, being guilty of paying attention to what a stupid girl from Aberdeenshire does.

It's right up there with the Black Panther salute in 68, and the massacre at Munich in 1972. Shut the doors naebody leaves till this is sorted oot!

Kilts, haggis, caber tossing. The vacuous bitch has an attempt at slagging of a nation by what she perceives to be its culture.
Well here's a news flash for the middle England slag - at least we have a culture and an identity. Her nations culture extends to Morris dancing and bullseye whereas their identity is usually defined by folk at sports events dressing up as crusaders or raf pilots from ww2.

[ginger_rice]

How did the oil revenues pay for "the wholesale decimation of our manufacturing and engineering base"...is that the same engineering base that UK companies like GKN and Rolls Royce lead the global market place in? Also if these enterprises were no longer able to support themselves without government support how much oil money would have been needed to subsidise low skill manufacturing in the UK to make it competitive against the rise of China and the effective movement of goods created by the globalised container industry? Or are you suggesting that a UK government deliberately set out to destroy part of it's economy using dole money to people made deliberately redundant merely because they had oil revenues to do so???

I agree though that central government should focus much more on delivering large scale infrastructure that can provide significant long term economic benefits to the country, that is probably the most useful thing I can think of central government doing...I doubt however that the UK public would ever countenance the fact that to do this some of the other spending taps would have to be turned off and there is the issue. The entitlement state created in the UK has prevented any such moves towards long term spending at the cost of short term spending and even worse the burden of supporting that entitlement state has resulted in the UK diverting the use of what should be long term borrowing for long term benefits into funding it's short term liabilities.

I would suggest that in the '70s manufacturing in the UK needed massive investment, true many parts did need streamlining, but successive governments either used large sums of taxpayers money (including oil revenues) to prop up failing industries (instead of modernising) and/or in paying out huge amounts in benefits, there were areas like Consett in Co Durham where the unemployment rate must have been absolutely phenomenal. To me that was a golden opportunity which went a begging, the governments (especially post 79) could have given much more support to companies in modernising their factories and plant, FFS I worked in a woollen mill in Alloa where we had machines manufactured just after WW1, the work the Alloa mill carried out was all transferred to brand new high tech mills in China and India.

I am suggesting though that the Thatcher government were quite happy to see the end of traditional, unionised, and often nationalised industries.

I agree with your final point it's probably what I was trying to get across but you do it in a much more eloquent way!