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johncrobertson@
06-08-2012, 03:43 PM
What happened to the Summer of Change??
By Steve Forbes
Updated Monday, 6th August 2012
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So there we have it folks, 24 hours on from the first game of the season against Dundee (http://www.dundee-mad.co.uk/) Utd, and it's more of the same.
Hibs were ripped apart 3-0 and it could have been a lot more, if it were not for a good showing from our new keeper Ben Williams, and some poor finishing from United.
The Hibees hierarchy promised us a "summer of change", and a "Hibernian with bottle" and sadly, yesterday everything stayed the same.
You have to wonder how much longer a disillusioned Hibs support will put up with this, our season ticket sales apparently sit close to the 8,000 mark, remarkable when you consider the last three seasons at the club.
Hibs chairman Rod Petrie released a statement last week about us losing 3,000 season ticket holders, it seems his plea has worked to an extent, with nearly another 1,000 folk investing their hard earned money, yet everything is the same on the pitch.
We had a team on the park, backed by an excellent travelling support yesterday, void of ideas, sloppy at defending, with a non existant midfield, and a good striker struggling away up front with no support.
Take nothing away from our opponents yesterday, the Tayside club have built an excellent squad, on a budget MUCH less than ours, so what is it our club is doing wrong??
We have lost 16 players in the summer and only signed five, and to be honest, the five we have signed look good signings, but we are EASILY 5 or 6 good quality players away from having a side that could compete in the top 6, and we are not talking about the Kerr's and Maybury's of this world.
The most annoying thing is, we had 3 players on the park yesterday, who were deemed not good enough to even get in a side humiliated by THEM 5-1 at Hampden in May.
To make matters worse, there is still another 5 players (7 if you count McPake and Griffiths who were the only highlights last season and great re-signings) that played that day, still in the squad, how does that equate to a "summer of change"?
Why did these players not get shown the door, along with others not judged good enough that day still in the squad, so that our manager had a clean slate to work with??
There must surely be a fair amount of Fenlon's budget left?? The TV deals have now been sorted, with deals pretty much the same as they were before, as I pointed out earlier we have picked up close to 1,000 season ticket holders, we sold Isaiah Osbourne for, depending what reports you believe, £200,000-£400,000. Even at worst case scenario it's £200,000 into the coffers. You then add to that the £75,000 sell on fee we picked up for Sol Bamba's move from Leicester City (http://www.leicestercity-mad.co.uk/) to Turkey last month.
What is happening with this cash, surely Fenlon must get it???
The constant selling on of good players, and replacing them with free agents has finally come back and bit us on the arse.
Don't get me wrong, building the Training Facility and East Stand, and also driving down the debt was they way forward, one the club deserves credit for, but for a good example, we sold Scott Brown for £4.5m, and replaced him with Brian Kerr for free. Could we not have banked the £4m and bolstered our then managers budget with the 500k??
You could go on, Fletcher, Murphy, Whittaker, Thomson, O'Connor, Jones, Sproule all sold on for big money and replaced with an inferior player.
Even players who have walked away under freedom of contract have been replaced with inferior product. Benji, Zemmama, Riordan, Killen........
We have been on a never ending decline since, is it any wonder that so has our season ticket sales and attendances??
During the Tony Mowbray/John Collins era, our average attendance was at one point 14,700. Last season?? 9099.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if you put out an exciting team, our club has the support to take advantage, especially with Rangers (http://www.followfollow.com/) now out the picture
43,000 against Livingston (http://www.livingston-mad.co.uk/) in the CIS Cup Final 2004, 32,000 against Kilmarnock (http://www.kilmarnock-mad.co.uk/) in the CIS Cup Final 2007, 25,000 in last season's Scottish Cup FInal.
Even our last home SPL game of the season, 15,000+ against Dunfermline, that's the POTENTIAL we have sitting there waiting to be tapped into.
You then get onto our owner, surely it's time we approached the man and asked him to invest in the team, we are not talking millions here, he could put his hand in his pocket for a marquee signing or two, get the fans back on side, and watch season ticket sales go up, and make his cash back.
If he's not willing to invest in the team, then surely he should be seeking a buyer who will?
Yes Mr Farmer saved our club from oblivion, and IMO the man should be knighted, have a stand named after him and be given the freedom of Leith, but I think it's time he and the board stepped up to the plate and delivered a side to us fans that we deserve?
It's over to Mr Petrie, Mr Lindsay, the rest of the board and Mr Farmer to deliver, or we can expect another horrible season.
Over to you guys.........
Related Stories

edwards
06-08-2012, 04:09 PM
Great right up It wasn't the start we wanted it doesn't help when we nit pick our assistant manager for his input during the game. I feel we should have most of the squad in before the season started but this didn't happen.
I still feel Pat fenlon is the man for the job but It's frustrating not getting the players we needed, at least he was sitting in the stand on Sunday and got a birds eye view of the game. We can do noting about the utd result now we have to focus on the Hertz game and hopefully either O'Hanlon or Hanlon will be back in the centre of defence.We really could do with a half decent forward in place for the Hertz game or we face another uphill struggle.

Hibs7
06-08-2012, 04:53 PM
This should be sent to Petrie and the Hibs board asking for a reply.

hibees 7062
06-08-2012, 05:07 PM
This should be sent to Petrie and the Hibs board asking for a reply.

:agree::agree::agree:

sahib
06-08-2012, 05:07 PM
"Even players who have walked away under freedom of contract have been replaced with inferior product. Benji, Zemmama, Riordan, Killen........"


I thought we got a fee for Zooma and Riordan. Not questioning the main thrust of the argument though.

Matty_Jack04
06-08-2012, 05:26 PM
What happened to the Summer of Change??
By Steve Forbes
Updated Monday, 6th August 2012
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So there we have it folks, 24 hours on from the first game of the season against Dundee (http://www.dundee-mad.co.uk/) Utd, and it's more of the same.
Hibs were ripped apart 3-0 and it could have been a lot more, if it were not for a good showing from our new keeper Ben Williams, and some poor finishing from United.
The Hibees hierarchy promised us a "summer of change", and a "Hibernian with bottle" and sadly, yesterday everything stayed the same.
You have to wonder how much longer a disillusioned Hibs support will put up with this, our season ticket sales apparently sit close to the 8,000 mark, remarkable when you consider the last three seasons at the club.
Hibs chairman Rod Petrie released a statement last week about us losing 3,000 season ticket holders, it seems his plea has worked to an extent, with nearly another 1,000 folk investing their hard earned money, yet everything is the same on the pitch.
We had a team on the park, backed by an excellent travelling support yesterday, void of ideas, sloppy at defending, with a non existant midfield, and a good striker struggling away up front with no support.
Take nothing away from our opponents yesterday, the Tayside club have built an excellent squad, on a budget MUCH less than ours, so what is it our club is doing wrong??
We have lost 16 players in the summer and only signed five, and to be honest, the five we have signed look good signings, but we are EASILY 5 or 6 good quality players away from having a side that could compete in the top 6, and we are not talking about the Kerr's and Maybury's of this world.
The most annoying thing is, we had 3 players on the park yesterday, who were deemed not good enough to even get in a side humiliated by THEM 5-1 at Hampden in May.
To make matters worse, there is still another 5 players (7 if you count McPake and Griffiths who were the only highlights last season and great re-signings) that played that day, still in the squad, how does that equate to a "summer of change"?
Why did these players not get shown the door, along with others not judged good enough that day still in the squad, so that our manager had a clean slate to work with??
There must surely be a fair amount of Fenlon's budget left?? The TV deals have now been sorted, with deals pretty much the same as they were before, as I pointed out earlier we have picked up close to 1,000 season ticket holders, we sold Isaiah Osbourne for, depending what reports you believe, £200,000-£400,000. Even at worst case scenario it's £200,000 into the coffers. You then add to that the £75,000 sell on fee we picked up for Sol Bamba's move from Leicester City (http://www.leicestercity-mad.co.uk/) to Turkey last month.
What is happening with this cash, surely Fenlon must get it???
The constant selling on of good players, and replacing them with free agents has finally come back and bit us on the arse.
Don't get me wrong, building the Training Facility and East Stand, and also driving down the debt was they way forward, one the club deserves credit for, but for a good example, we sold Scott Brown for £4.5m, and replaced him with Brian Kerr for free. Could we not have banked the £4m and bolstered our then managers budget with the 500k??
You could go on, Fletcher, Murphy, Whittaker, Thomson, O'Connor, Jones, Sproule all sold on for big money and replaced with an inferior player.
Even players who have walked away under freedom of contract have been replaced with inferior product. Benji, Zemmama, Riordan, Killen........
We have been on a never ending decline since, is it any wonder that so has our season ticket sales and attendances??
During the Tony Mowbray/John Collins era, our average attendance was at one point 14,700. Last season?? 9099.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if you put out an exciting team, our club has the support to take advantage, especially with Rangers (http://www.followfollow.com/) now out the picture
43,000 against Livingston (http://www.livingston-mad.co.uk/) in the CIS Cup Final 2004, 32,000 against Kilmarnock (http://www.kilmarnock-mad.co.uk/) in the CIS Cup Final 2007, 25,000 in last season's Scottish Cup FInal.
Even our last home SPL game of the season, 15,000+ against Dunfermline, that's the POTENTIAL we have sitting there waiting to be tapped into.
You then get onto our owner, surely it's time we approached the man and asked him to invest in the team, we are not talking millions here, he could put his hand in his pocket for a marquee signing or two, get the fans back on side, and watch season ticket sales go up, and make his cash back.
If he's not willing to invest in the team, then surely he should be seeking a buyer who will?
Yes Mr Farmer saved our club from oblivion, and IMO the man should be knighted, have a stand named after him and be given the freedom of Leith, but I think it's time he and the board stepped up to the plate and delivered a side to us fans that we deserve?
It's over to Mr Petrie, Mr Lindsay, the rest of the board and Mr Farmer to deliver, or we can expect another horrible season.
Over to you guys.........
Related Stories


:cb

AlbertK86
06-08-2012, 05:47 PM
Excellent article

As someone else said send it onto Rod

I have e mail address if needed

500miles
06-08-2012, 06:19 PM
Personally, I think it's a pile of pish, written by someone who still seems to think that you get a return on investment in Scottish football. So send it if you like, but don't pretend that it represents the views of Hibs fans en masse, because I would hate for someone to think this represents me or anyone who i attend the football with. Ta.

.Sean.
06-08-2012, 06:30 PM
Personally, I think it's a pile of pish, written by someone who still seems to think that you get a return on investment in Scottish football. So send it if you like, but don't pretend that it represents the views of Hibs fans en masse, because I would hate for someone to think this represents me or anyone who i attend the football with. Ta.

:wtf:



What part of the article is pish? It's absolutely spot on.

CropleyWasGod
06-08-2012, 06:40 PM
:wtf:



What part of the article is pish? It's absolutely spot on.

"Yes Mr Farmer saved our club from oblivion, and IMO the man should be knighted" :greengrin

500miles
06-08-2012, 06:45 PM
:wtf:



What part of the article is pish? It's absolutely spot on.

Well, for a start, Sunday was the first game if the season against a team that is heavily tipped for second and 5 years in the making. Sorry, but expectations are crippling the club. It's resulted in us signing squads of duds instead of a few crucial players.

Lofarl
06-08-2012, 06:49 PM
So he wants him to be known as Sir Sir Tom Farmer?

banarc7062
06-08-2012, 06:50 PM
Excellent article

As someone else said send it onto Rod

I have e mail address if needed

Why not pass the piece on then direct to the man? Let's see if he has the spark to respond in an "open" reply to supporters.

Hibs7
06-08-2012, 06:51 PM
Well, for a start, Sunday was the first game if the season against a team that is heavily tipped for second and 5 years in the making. Sorry, but expectations are crippling the club. It's resulted in us signing squads of duds instead of a few crucial players.

It doesn't matter what DU are tipped for the Hibs team was a disgrace, no fight, nothing to even raise hopes, that is why this should be sent to the Hibs board. They need to reassure the support they are doing everything possible to stop the rot.

edwards
06-08-2012, 06:55 PM
Why not pass the piece on then direct to the man? Let's see if he has the spark to respond in an "open" reply to supporters.

Totaly agree splendid article the game against dundee united was the worst ever start, there is no danger Stephens should have got anywhere near the team on Sunday DIRE :taxi

Steven_Hibs
06-08-2012, 07:10 PM
So he wants him to be known as Sir Sir Tom Farmer?

:greengrin:top marks
.

500miles
06-08-2012, 07:50 PM
It doesn't matter what DU are tipped for the Hibs team was a disgrace, no fight, nothing to even raise hopes, that is why this should be sent to the Hibs board. They need to reassure the support they are doing everything possible to stop the rot.

Stop the no fight cliches, and nothing to raise hopes hysteria. Folk had their scripts written before a ball had been kicked, and its just so tiresome. In fact, it's older than our push poor record of performances, because even the golden generation got it.

marinello59
06-08-2012, 07:56 PM
Personally, I think it's a pile of pish, written by someone who still seems to think that you get a return on investment in Scottish football. So send it if you like, but don't pretend that it represents the views of Hibs fans en masse, because I would hate for someone to think this represents me or anyone who i attend the football with. Ta.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a pile of pish but I wonder just who people think is waiting in the sidelines to pour money in to an SPL football club. i want to see a bit more money released from somewhere but let's keep things realistic.

IWasThere2016
06-08-2012, 08:01 PM
Well, for a start, Sunday was the first game if the season against a team that is heavily tipped for second and 5 years in the making. Sorry, but expectations are crippling the club. It's resulted in us signing squads of duds instead of a few crucial players.

Can you explain how that United side was 5 years in the making? And my expectations are another relegation battle with one or two from Dundee, Ross Co, St Mirren and Killie. How does the view 'cripple' the club?

HibsMax
06-08-2012, 08:16 PM
There's no need to send this to the Hibs board because if they don't know what is going on and how the fans feel then they won't understand the content. They will see the season ticket sales going down. I know they read this forum, probably others as well. They KNOW we're in a big, steaming pile of poo.

What we need are answers from the club, so in that regard perhaps contacting the club isn't a bad idea.....if you think you'll get anything other than a canned response, tweaked a little to make it look personal.

I have seen quite a bit of disagreement among fans on here but the funny thing is, we're all on the same side. I have not read a single post that suggests that what we watched yesterday was anything other than a disgrace. So even though we're divided over some of the details we're absolutely united about what the problem is. If we can all see it, the board sure can. If they can't then that just fuels the fire that they are not competent to run the club.

What is the answer? To me, that is the million dollar question. Actually, in this economy / climate, it's probably more like a 200 dollar question. I've never been a fan of putting the club into debt but let's look at the options (as I see them) :
1. Close our eyes and hope that the current business model just sort of rights itself and we rebound.
2. Invest in some proven talent (if we can find players who are Hibs Class and will readily sign on the dotted line).
3. Fix our scouting network so that we bring in cheaper players but still of Hibs Class. This might already have been addressed based on the last few signings.


I don't have the answer. I am not panicking yet because I do feel that it's still early enough for things to get better. That doesn't mean I am happy about the state of affairs at Hibs. Far from it. I know as well as you do that if things don't change then we will be in for a long, hard season. I'm just not ready to make a forecast of the next 37 games based on 1 data point (last season, while still fresh in our minds, is NOT part of the equation as far as I am concerned - clean slate).


As for a protest (mentioned in other threads) I'm not sure what I feel about that. Based on a figure that I read we are already down several thousand fans - that in itself is a pretty demonstrative protest, albeit it a silent one. The Board WILL have noticed. I'm just not sure what impact any sort of protest / message to the board would have. They already know.

Perhaps the best protest would be to fill Easter Road with fans voicing their displeasure (AFTER the game is over). Get along and let your voice be heard...with the added benefit of some vocal support for the lads on the pitch.

Speedway
06-08-2012, 08:27 PM
There's no need to send this to the Hibs board because if they don't know what is going on and how the fans feel then they won't understand the content. They will see the season ticket sales going down. I know they read this forum, probably others as well. They KNOW we're in a big, steaming pile of poo.

What we need are answers from the club, so in that regard perhaps contacting the club isn't a bad idea.....if you think you'll get anything other than a canned response, tweaked a little to make it look personal.

I have seen quite a bit of disagreement among fans on here but the funny thing is, we're all on the same side. I have not Iread a single post that suggests that what we watched yesterday was anything other than a disgrace. So even though we're divided over some of the details we're absolutely united about what the problem is. If we can all see it, the board sure can. If they can't then that just fuels the fire that they are not competent to run the club.

What is the answer? To me, that is the million dollar question. Actually, in this economy / climate, it's probably more like a 200 dollar question. I've never been a fan of putting the club into debt but let's look at the options (as I see them) :
1. Close our eyes and hope that the current business model just sort of rights itself and we rebound.
2. Invest in some proven talent (if we can find players who are Hibs Class and will readily sign on the dotted line).
3. Fix our scouting network so that we bring in cheaper players but still of Hibs Class. This might already have been addressed based on the last few signings.


I don't have the answer. I am not panicking yet because I do feel that it's still early enough for things to get better. That doesn't mean I am happy about the state of affairs at Hibs. Far from it. I know as well as you do that if things don't change then we will be in for a long, hard season. I'm just not ready to make a forecast of the next 37 games based on 1 data point (last season, while still fresh in our minds, is NOT part of the equation as far as I am concerned - clean slate).


As for a protest (mentioned in other threads) I'm not sure what I feel about that. Based on a figure that I read we are already down several thousand fans - that in itself is a pretty demonstrative protest, albeit it a silent one. The Board WILL have noticed. I'm just not sure what impact any sort of protest / message to the board would have. They already know.

Perhaps the best protest would be to fill Easter Road with fans voicing their displeasure (AFTER the game is over). Get along and let your voice be heard...with the added benefit of some vocal support for the lads on the pitch.
Anyone who does see Steve's selective recounting of squad investment ad 'spot on' clearly doesn't 'know their history'.

The one angle that the board are answerable for is their selection of managers, albeit many that the fans wanted.

1875STEVE
06-08-2012, 08:30 PM
Personally, I think it's a pile of pish, written by someone who still seems to think that you get a return on investment in Scottish football. So send it if you like, but don't pretend that it represents the views of Hibs fans en masse, because I would hate for someone to think this represents me or anyone who i attend the football with. Ta.

Hi.

I wrote the article.

No I don't think you get a return on Scottish Football, Infact, I don't think you get a return on ANY football club in ANY league.

Im normally pro-board/Petrie etc Ive pumped 100's of pounds into the club the last few weeks like Mr Petrie begged, and that's what we get dished out to us on day one, but something in me snapped yesterday after paying £25 to get in an watch my team surrender from kick off, after being promised a change over the summer, and unless I missed something yesterday, nothings changed.

It wasn't written to be representation of Hibs fans en masse, or to represent you, It was piece written from my point of view.

Il tell you what, if you'd like to write a piece from your point of view, or from the other point of view, why don't you, and il post it up on Hibs-Mad under your name???

As for the Knighthood mistake, I wasn't actually planning to put it up until tonight, as Id still to proof read it, and still have as im at work, so if there's any other mistakes or typos that's why.

1875STEVE
06-08-2012, 08:35 PM
Anyone who does see Steve's selective recounting of squad investment clearly doesn't 'know their history'.

The one angle that the board are answerable for is their selection of managers, albeit many that the fans wanted.

IMO there's nothing selective about it.

We binned Brown and replaced him with Kerr, we binned Whittaker and replaced him with Van Zanten, we binned Sproule and replaced him with O'Brien we binned Killen/Riordan/Benji and replaced them with Curier & Donaldson.

I was only using Brown as an example.

muirhousehibby
06-08-2012, 08:53 PM
Well, for a start, Sunday was the first game if the season against a team that is heavily tipped for second and 5 years in the making. Sorry, but expectations are crippling the club. It's resulted in us signing squads of duds instead of a few crucial players.


I agree, you can’t bring in 8/9 players on free contracts season after season on the kind of cash we are paying them. We should have had a decent enough squad and therefore add to it gradually to strengthen it. We need to blend that in with a couple of youngsters who have enthusiasm and desire

Hibeesforever
06-08-2012, 09:00 PM
[/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more with your sentiments. Something snapped with me as well in Dundee. Probably the realisation that if the fans do nothing now then relegation is inevitable. The carry on in Scottish football, has just emphased how much bigger a club Hibs are than most of the other teams in the league.
Regarding not borrowing money in this difficult climate. Everything is relative, so players should be cheaper in a recession because more are looking for contracts and are prepared to work for lower wages.
Hibernian Football Club should spend all the season ticket money raised and also borrow £ 1 million to invest immediately in the team. Interest rates are really low, so no problem for cash-flow. A European place has never been more attainable and Hibs should set out their stall to go for it. The fans would buy-into the excitement.

DevonLoch
06-08-2012, 09:03 PM
The one angle that the board are answerable for is their selection of managers, albeit many that the fans wanted.

"It is, of course, the board that have allowed this situation to develop. Rod Petrie has delivered financial stability to Hibs. He's delivered a training ground. And he's delivered a finished stadium. All great achievements that deserve to be applauded. But he has failed to deliver the footballing side of his remit.


The turnover of managers, the profitable syphoning off of players and the general level of inconsistency over the past few years can't be ignored. And the board, and Rod Petrie in particular, must take a generous share of the blame. However much the bank manager likes the policy of selling big and buying low it typifies a lack of investment on the footballing side that is now haunting Hibs. And, ironically, Hibs are one of the few SPL teams who could afford to never be in this position with just a little, managed, investment in players."


Read the full article below - sadly many points as relevant today as they were 18 months ago.

http://www.scottishfootballblog.co.uk/2011/01/hibs-playing-blame-game.html

IMHO Investment has been needed for a long time on the playing side of the club? Instead we build a new stand we will never fill when the product on the pitch is consistently awful. Poor decision making at the top.

AlbertK86
06-08-2012, 09:09 PM
Why not pass the piece on then direct to the man? Let's see if he has the spark to respond in an "open" reply to supporters.

More than happy to pass on but seen as I wasn't the author I feel it would be more appropriate for the Person who did compile it to send it on

fatbloke
06-08-2012, 09:15 PM
Well, for a start, Sunday was the first game if the season against a team that is heavily tipped for second and 5 years in the making. Sorry, but expectations are crippling the club. It's resulted in us signing squads of duds instead of a few crucial players.

Most Hibs fans only expect us to compete and be a football team, any real expectation has been well and truly knocked out of most. Expectation is a wonderful thing and if people have no expectations then they will have a very unhappy existence. I have not heard in my 52 years of following my beloved club any real impossible expectations, yes some which required a lot of luck, hard work and determination but to say expectations are crippling the club is the biggest crock of doogy doings I have ever heard in my puff.

blackpoolhibs
06-08-2012, 09:17 PM
IMO there's nothing selective about it.

We binned Brown and replaced him with Kerr, we binned Whittaker and replaced him with Van Zanten, we binned Sproule and replaced him with O'Brien we binned Killen/Riordan/Benji and replaced them with Curier & Donaldson.

I was only using Brown as an example.

The often mooted Ajax method. :rolleyes:

NAE NOOKIE
06-08-2012, 10:27 PM
This is the crux of the matter.

There are a number of threads following Sunday but they have been prompted by the same thing:

Nobody, but nobody thought for a second that Hibs were going to go up to Tannadice and come away with anything other than at best a draw or a narrow defeat. To hope we would win there against the second best team in the SPL would have been super optomistic.

Amazingly we apparently took over 3,000 supporters to the game ( a game with a 1pm kick off and which was live on TV ) all of whom I am sure suffered through that 90 minutes of hell at Hampden ... incredible loyalty in the circumstances and a testament to just what a great support this club could have and in fact does have.

And what was their reward for this loyalty, what was their and every other Hibs fans payback for the biggest let down in our history. A battling, gutsy, fight to the last minute performance to be proud of, even in defeat? A performance to bring hope for the coming season? and even more important in the short term .... hope for next Sunday?

No ..... what we got was more of the same!!!

Thats why folk are angry and thats why folk are posting stuff like the OP on here .... and who can blame them.

500miles
07-08-2012, 08:20 AM
Hi.

I wrote the article.

No I don't think you get a return on Scottish Football, Infact, I don't think you get a return on ANY football club in ANY league.

Im normally pro-board/Petrie etc Ive pumped 100's of pounds into the club the last few weeks like Mr Petrie begged, and that's what we get dished out to us on day one, but something in me snapped yesterday after paying £25 to get in an watch my team surrender from kick off, after being promised a change over the summer, and unless I missed something yesterday, nothings changed.

It wasn't written to be representation of Hibs fans en masse, or to represent you, It was piece written from my point of view.

Il tell you what, if you'd like to write a piece from your point of view, or from the other point of view, why don't you, and il post it up on Hibs-Mad under your name???

As for the Knighthood mistake, I wasn't actually planning to put it up until tonight, as Id still to proof read it, and still have as im at work, so if there's any other mistakes or typos that's why.

Without trying to be rude, I don't have the time, nor the inclination to write articles about anything. I read Hibs.net on lunch breaks, when my girlfriend is subjecting me to Hollyoaks/ pseaudo reality tv and to find out about new signings. Luckily im in an NHS doctors waiting room, so I have time on my hands at the moment.

Firstly, your article notes the incoming monies made through transfers and player sales but makes no mention of the expendature we have already incurred. We may have sold Brown and Thomson, and Kerr and Noubissie may have been their direct replacements, but that ignores the hundreds of thousands of pounds we had to spend on Alan O'Brien, Makalamby and eventually, and unexpectedly Zemmama. The former two commanded sky high signing on fees, and we had to pay compensation for Zouma. However, because Collins couldn't manage the group of players he had, we ended up having to replace the likes of Stewart, who left for hee haw, and may have even required paying off. More expendature. Then we paid. Fees for Nish and Rankin.... Two players I think got too hard a time, and are part of the problem with crippling expectation I mentioned earlier. I'm not going to go through all our ins and outs, but considerable expendature was provided for the likes of Miller, Riordan, O'Connor, Hart etc. Deegan even came with a six figure transfer fee. So your article is slanted in entirely one direction.

There's also the fact that we HAD signed half a team of players before the season kicked off. Rebuilding on the scale you want doesn't happen quickly, and if it occurs successfully in a single transfer window, its miraculous enough! I would hope to see improvement throughout the first half of the season, maybe cross my fingers during the mid season window, and have a really competative team by next season.

But most of all, you're basing an entire article about this upcoming season based on the opening game, against one of the top two teams in the league. I think that its not the worst bet in the world to have money on United being top of the league at Christmas.

1875STEVE
07-08-2012, 02:17 PM
Without trying to be rude, I don't have the time, nor the inclination to write articles about anything. I read Hibs.net on lunch breaks, when my girlfriend is subjecting me to Hollyoaks/ pseaudo reality tv and to find out about new signings. Luckily im in an NHS doctors waiting room, so I have time on my hands at the moment.

Firstly, your article notes the incoming monies made through transfers and player sales but makes no mention of the expendature we have already incurred. We may have sold Brown and Thomson, and Kerr and Noubissie may have been their direct replacements, but that ignores the hundreds of thousands of pounds we had to spend on Alan O'Brien, Makalamby and eventually, and unexpectedly Zemmama. The former two commanded sky high signing on fees, and we had to pay compensation for Zouma. However, because Collins couldn't manage the group of players he had, we ended up having to replace the likes of Stewart, who left for hee haw, and may have even required paying off. More expendature. Then we paid. Fees for Nish and Rankin.... Two players I think got too hard a time, and are part of the problem with crippling expectation I mentioned earlier. I'm not going to go through all our ins and outs, but considerable expendature was provided for the likes of Miller, Riordan, O'Connor, Hart etc. Deegan even came with a six figure transfer fee. So your article is slanted in entirely one direction.

There's also the fact that we HAD signed half a team of players before the season kicked off. Rebuilding on the scale you want doesn't happen quickly, and if it occurs successfully in a single transfer window, its miraculous enough! I would hope to see improvement throughout the first half of the season, maybe cross my fingers during the mid season window, and have a really competative team by next season.

But most of all, you're basing an entire article about this upcoming season based on the opening game, against one of the top two teams in the league. I think that its not the worst bet in the world to have money on United being top of the league at Christmas.

First of all I don't think wanting the team to put in a decent fight, and atleast make a game of things is crippling expectation,neither is wanting the team to push for top 6,I don't see anywhere fans wanting Hibs to fight for league titles, THAT would be crippling expectation, not wanting the team to beat teams like St Mirren, Killie and ICT. if you read the article I did point out Hibs needed to be appluaded for spending money on the training centre and East Stand and driving the debt down.

You also bring up the expenditure at the time, which I also agree with you on to an extent, yes we did bring in the likes of Stokes, Miller, Riordan, O'Connor etc, but we them let them all walk for nowt (apart from Stokes) and replaced them with poor, poor players.

Btw who did we replace Stokes and Riordan with??? Agogo and Sodje.

Also at the time on the signings of the likes of Rankin (100k), Nish (150k) and paying out decent compo for Maka, Zemmama & O'Brien, we were posting MASSIVE profits, had fecord ST sales, record strip sales, all on a MUCH smaller budget than we have now. We then sold Zemmama on (Yes I got mixed up in the article) for (Now that I look back) a reported £200k fee (about what we paid in compo).

As for my article being slanted one way, that's the whole point of it, this has been going on for 5 years now, we have fans all over the Bounce and .net, as well as folk I work with, and im sure many others other folk work with, saying they have had enough, and are not going to go back.

I have posted articles in the past appluading stuff the club has done, and I will do again in the future if they get things right. If they want to tak the plaudits when everything is rosey in the garden, then they have to take the flak also.

As for the article offer, the offer stands, we are always looking for guest article writers/contributors at Hibernain-Mad, I only offered seeing as mine was labbeled "a load of pish.", giving other folk a chance to have their say.

Also Dundee Utd at the top at crimbo wouldn't surprise me, just a pity it's on budget a lot less than ours......

sesoim
08-08-2012, 01:49 AM
Personally, I think it's a pile of pish, written by someone who still seems to think that you get a return on investment in Scottish football. So send it if you like, but don't pretend that it represents the views of Hibs fans en masse, because I would hate for someone to think this represents me or anyone who i attend the football with. Ta.


Charming.:rolleyes:

Personally I think most of Steve's points are good. Yeah, nobody WILL make a profit in Scottish football at the moment (well, apart from the OF), but our turnover has dropped by £2.5M in the last five years due to bad managers who were incapable of putting a decent team together. Given how poor many other SPL teams are, a bit of clever spending would easily get us into the top six, thus adding at least a million to our turnover compared to last season. If we sign crap we will stay where we are. And if Petrie doesn't trust Fenlon to spend the money wisely why did he appoint him?

Frankly, even if Fenlon's budget is small, it still wont be smaller than at least half the league, so there can't be any more excuses from him, Petrie or anyone else if this season is as bad as the last two and a half.

steakbake
08-08-2012, 06:36 AM
The often mooted Ajax method. :rolleyes:

In fairness to Ajax, it at least works when they do it. If they sell a cracking player, they've got one or two on their books who can slot in.

At Hibs, we developed the players (outside of our wonderful training facilities) then sold them on and replaced on the cheap - crucially from outside and not from our own younger players.

The money shot happened too early in the script.

Brizo
08-08-2012, 08:08 AM
The dont panic its only the first game of the season defence put forward by others on here in relation to the OP isnt one i share (as much as I would like to)

I didnt go to the game last Sunday expecting us to win. i went hoping for improvements in organisation, commitment and getting the basics right like throw ins and corners. Not too much to hope for ? I would have been pleased with a draw and a defeat against United would have been no disgrace if i had seen some sign of the aforementioned improvements.

Its not the fact we were beaten by a very good Utd side that worries me its the manner in which were beaten. We were incapable of doing the fundamental things right , of getting the basics right. It was 2- 0 going on a lot more. Thats not down to budgets thats down to something being fundamentally lacking with the training regime and the mentality of both the coach and players. Something thats been lacking in various degrees with previous managers and squads since after the 2007 CIS Final.

It was the club that advertised this summer as the " Summer of Change". Its perfectly legitimate to ask the club whats changed ? Nothing imo , it was just more PR spin to flog a few more season tickets. Because the reality is the team have begun this season in the same disorganised shambolic state that they finished the last one.

IWasThere2016
08-08-2012, 08:13 AM
The dont panic its only the first game of the season defence put forward by others on here in relation to the OP isnt one i share (as much as I would like to)

I didnt go to the game last Sunday expecting us to win. i went hoping for improvements in organisation, commitment and getting the basics right like throw ins and corners. Not too much to hope for ? I would have been pleased with a draw and a defeat against United would have been no disgrace if i had seen some sign of the aforementioned improvements.

Its not the fact we were beaten by a very good Utd side that worries me its the manner in which were beaten. We were incapable of doing the fundamental things right , of getting the basics right. It was 2- 0 going on a lot more. Thats not down to budgets thats down to something being fundamentally lacking with the training regime and the mentality of both the coach and players. Something thats been lacking in various degrees with previous managers and squads since after the 2007 CIS Final.

It was the club that advertised this summer as the " Summer of Change". Its perfectly legitimate to ask the club whats changed ? Nothing imo , it was just more PR spin to flog a few more season tickets. Because the reality is the team have begun this season in the same disorganised shambolic state that they finished the last one.

This. We are shambolic .. again :boo hoo:

Beefster
08-08-2012, 08:24 AM
In fairness to Ajax, it at least works when they do it. If they sell a cracking player, they've got one or two on their books who can slot in.

At Hibs, we developed the players (outside of our wonderful training facilities) then sold them on and replaced on the cheap - crucially from outside and not from our own younger players.

The money shot happened too early in the script.

If we had continued to invest in our youth programme at the same level, it would have had a much better chance of working. By all accounts, we've been caught up and then left behind by lots of clubs who have invested in /structured their programmes properly.

IWasThere2016
08-08-2012, 09:03 AM
If we had continued to invest in our youth programme at the same level, it would have had a much better chance of working. By all accounts, we've been caught up and then left behind by lots of clubs who have invested in /structured their programmes properly.

We have just been gubbed by the Arabs - likely to be 2nd in the SPL - they have signed wisely from below in Scotland eg: Dixon, Robertson, Swanston, Douglas, Gomis, Conway, Mackay-Steven

Whilst developing their own: Goodwillie, Watson, Russell, Allan, Kenneth, Armstrong, Dow etc

They have also signed wisely from Ireland - Daly, Dillon, Ryan

Their current 13/14 y-o are outstanding also.

Oddly, they still have scouts :cool2:

ahibby
08-08-2012, 09:36 AM
I don't agree with it all and I don't think that it contains anything more of value than what various people have been saying in this forum. He says that the Dunfermline game shows the potential of the club because they gate was around 15,000. It could be argued that by getting that gate the club achieved it's potential. Would we have got that gate had we been four places higher in the league, I doubt it. I do agree that we are well below our potential but having reached a Scottish Cup Final, with the income that produces, and a final home gate as big as it was I wonder what kind of business model we are using. It looks as though we are a long way off being second or third best like we were under McLeish and Mowbray and i doubt being in the middle would create as much passion as being top or bottom. We are going to have to go through the mid table stage it would appear before we ever get anywhere near the top again (if ever) and I will be interested to see how much passion we generate then e.g fifteen thousand at the last game of the season, any more than eight thousand season ticket sales. If investment is needed to bring the right people in to run the football side then fair enough but to give it to the same people who have gotten us in this position for players would be utter folly at this time, imo.

berty_mee
08-08-2012, 09:48 AM
Stop the no fight cliches, and nothing to raise hopes hysteria. Folk had their scripts written before a ball had been kicked, and its just so tiresome. In fact, it's older than our push poor record of performances, because even the golden generation got it.

Don't agree. Fantastic away support for a Sunday 1pm ko which was also televised. The scripts werenae written at all, we were all promised a 'season of change and promise' by the powers that be and sadly again they didn't deliver on their part. We've been led astray once again by a board that accepts mediorocracy and expects us, the fans, to accept it too. Calderwood said it before Fenlon, his supperiors were happy just ticking by when it came down to the football side of things so why should he aim any higher??

The original post is spot on and so many of us know it's going on and if anyone sees things improving in the near future then I'm sorry, but that's what's deluded!!