Fenlon Post Match Comments

[Zemamma10]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19138654

'We're a little bit short'

We aren't even that close Pat.

[scuttle]

Hes had three month to do something about it

[BoltonHibee]

Hes had three month to do something about it

The man is clueless

[down-the-slope]

"You spend days preparing your team and organising and you concede a goal after two or three minutes," said Fenlon.
"It gives you a mountain to climb.
"I'm disappointed that they didn't carry out what I asked them to carry out. That's the major disappointment.

Well I hope he makes sure they don't make a habit of it and learn that they will not last if they don't

[blackpoolhibs]

Not even bothered to click on the link, sick to death of managers that talk pish. I wonder if he thinks we are still too soft, and easy to beat?

[Mary Hinge]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19138654

'We're a little bit short'

We aren't even that close Pat.

I think Fenlon's comment is spot on ..... we're only 11 players away from being a really good side.

[SouthamptonHibs]

Its like groundhogg day. We need new players etc. A team should be in place for the start of the season not four games into the season because transfer window closes. Basically Hibs are playing a 34 game season this year. With our current squad we will get zero points from oir first four games. Could prob reduce that to 31 games as Celtic will beat us easily. So thats 31 games to get enough points to 1. Stay up 2. Reach top 6 or 3. Challenge for UEFA spot

[VickMackie]

Is this the official start of getting Fenlon the sack?

Seems awful like it.

[Northernhibee]

Hes had three month to do something about it

:brickwall

Look at all the past interviews in pre-season and read between the lines.

There are lots of players who don't want to come to this. PF hasn't been going "Oh look, we're short of quality. Let's not sign as many players who will make a positive impact as we can", he's put in a lot of legwork and it's not always come off.

That interview is reassuring that he's pissed off, that his instructions weren't followed and he'll go through them like a dose of salts.

The problem is - and has been for a long time - at a higher level than the manager. The rot has set in.

[BT58]

Not even bothered to click on the link, sick to death of managers that talk pish. I wonder if he thinks we are still too soft, and easy to beat?

but G its not his fault,nor the boards,,,,,,its the fans fault for not buying season tickets!!!!!
PF was talking before the game that the team would work harder at not conceding goals,,,,we where lucky it was only 3!!!!!
bt

[BT58]

damn i forgot sarcastic smiley:wink::wink::wink:
bt

[1950's hibbie]

The part that concerns me most is that they didn't do what he told them. You can bring in all the players you like, but if they do not follow the instructions of the manager, NASA we have a problem. Is that not where the captain and the manager should be co operating, the manager at the training ground, and on the side line, and the captain following and making others follow the managers instructions on the field.

[Northernhibee]

It is so blatantly clear cut 100% ****ing obvious that the issue with this club lies with the board I can't believe that people on here are falling for the trick of blaming the manager YET AGAIN.

In those Q&As when the board set "The manager sets the culture at the club"? Man the **** up and show some leadership, the culture should be "The manager is king, you follow his every word, you don't go out and get hammered or snort coke, you live your life to take this football club forward". That comes from the top. THE BOARD MUST SHOW SOME LEADERSHIP, NOW.

The board are NOT backing the manager, at all.

For crying out loud, the wrist slitters on this forum need to think, open their eyes and realise what is going on. There is no leadership at the very top (finances aside) there is no backing for the manager.

[scuttle]

:brickwall

Look at all the past interviews in pre-season and read between the lines.

There are lots of players who don't want to come to this. PF hasn't been going "Oh look, we're short of quality. Let's not sign as many players who will make a positive impact as we can", he's put in a lot of legwork and it's not always come off.

That interview is reassuring that he's pissed off, that his instructions weren't followed and he'll go through them like a dose of salts.

The problem is - and has been for a long time - at a higher level than the manager. The rot has set in.


talk is cheap and he can say what he wants, ,,,,but its his intructions his tactics, and if the players are not good enough hes wasting his time

[Emerald]

:brickwall

Look at all the past interviews in pre-season and read between the lines.

There are lots of players who don't want to come to this. PF hasn't been going "Oh look, we're short of quality. Let's not sign as many players who will make a positive impact as we can", he's put in a lot of legwork and it's not always come off.

That interview is reassuring that he's pissed off, that his instructions weren't followed and he'll go through them like a dose of salts.

The problem is - and has been for a long time - at a higher level than the manager. The rot has set in.

That is part of the problem but one I don't think we're going to solve any time soon. The thing we can solve is the manager making the most of what he has, being able to motivate and employ the best tactics. He also has to pick up players for next to nothing, just like all the other teams with less finances than us. He has GOT to take some if not the vast majority of the blame. Hibs are at the worst I can remember, they're not even doing the basics right. Goalkeeper punting high balls and loosing possession every time. You dont need £20m quid to change that do you?

[matty_f]

Quick! Hound him!!

[blackpoolhibs]

Quick! Hound him!!

I'd rather hound those above him.

[matty_f]

I'd rather hound those above him.

Quick! Hound everyone!!

[3pm]

Quick! Hound him!!

How long do we give hin Matty?

[matty_f]

How long do we give hin Matty?

Longer than he's had. A January window with no money and 3/4 of a summer window isn't long enough to sort this club out.

We've had one game against the team widely tipped for second place this year. Why can't we be more like united seems to be a fairly common theme today.

Well united were where we are and they gave harry potter time to sort it and let Houston carry on that work, even after bad runs and results.

[hibees 7062]

"You spend days preparing your team and organising and you concede a goal after two or three minutes," said Fenlon.
"It gives you a mountain to climb.
"I'm disappointed that they didn't carry out what I asked them to carry out. That's the major disappointment.

Well I hope he makes sure they don't make a habit of it and learn that they will not last if they don't

If true then either they or he should get tae f...

[3pm]

Longer than he's had. A January window with no money and 3/4 of a summer window isn't long enough to sort this club out.

We've had one game against the team widely tipped for second place this year. Why can't we be more like united seems to be a fairly common theme today.

Well united were where we are and they gave harry potter time to sort it and let Houston carry on that work, even after bad runs and results.

You make good points. However, the lack of urgency on show and some of the decisions are concerning.

[Sir David Gray]

Wouldn't blame Fenlon.

He's got a massive rebuilding job on his hands and hasn't even had two transfer windows yet to try and sort it out.

We need wholesale changes in personnel and it takes time for any club to do that.

He's not even had his first anniversary as manager yet and I said at the time of his appointment that he needed at least two years to get us to the level that I would expect us to be at.

Nothing that has happened in the last 9 months since he became our manager has changed my mind on that.

[Emerald]

Wouldn't blame Fenlon.

He's got a massive rebuilding job on his hands and hasn't even had two transfer windows yet to try and sort it out.

We need wholesale changes in personnel and it takes time for any club to do that.

He's not even had his first anniversary as manager yet and I said at the time of his appointment that he needed at least two years to get us to the level that I would expect us to be at.

Nothing that has happened in the last 9 months since he became our manager has changed my mind on that.

Trouble is nothing has happened in the past 9 months period! Except we are getting worse. The team is a shambles and the way we play, the tactics, the team selection is PF job. They were all over the place today, its up to him to get them organised and he isn't doing it.

[chrisski33]

Whilst folk are saying its the boards fault yes blame them for lack of transfer funds, its fenlon who picks the team, tactics etc and of the players aint following his instructions does that show a lack of confidence in his tactics or disrespect of fenlon amongst the players?

Im now dreading nxt weeks derby more than i already was as cant see how we will win!

[AlbertK86]

Shock horror .... We need more players !!'

Eff me we've been saying this since the end of the season

For those who reckon its ok to wait til last minute.....
Today was evidence yiz were wrong by a country mile

No surprise - same every season

Naw we dinnae need early signings and a settled team for the beginning of the season ......

[matty_f]

You make good points. However, the lack of urgency on show and some of the decisions are concerning.

I don't know what you're referring to with the urgency, do you mean in getting players in, or from the players here?

I think he'd liked to have had more in by now but the reality uis it's proving difficult. I don't think that's down to Fenlon though.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Whilst folk are saying its the boards fault yes blame them for lack of transfer funds, its fenlon who picks the team, tactics etc and of the players aint following his instructions does that show a lack of confidence in his tactics or disrespect of fenlon amongst the players?

Im now dreading nxt weeks derby more than i already was as cant see how we will win!
were there any? The high ball up to Griffiths was about all I seen today from Hibs. Theres not even a basis to start from. The link up between the forward players was non-existant as was the movement in the middle of the park. All very depressing

[Northernhibee]

Whilst folk are saying its the boards fault yes blame them for lack of transfer funds, its fenlon who picks the team, tactics etc and of the players aint following his instructions does that show a lack of confidence in his tactics or disrespect of fenlon amongst the players?


It shows that there is a culture problem at the club. PF has been a stubborn disciplinarian at previous clubs, I'd put money on it not being down to him.

[Bobby's Cinema]

It is so blatantly clear cut 100% ****ing obvious that the issue with this club lies with the board I can't believe that people on here are falling for the trick of blaming the manager YET AGAIN.

In those Q&As when the board set "The manager sets the culture at the club"? Man the **** up and show some leadership, the culture should be "The manager is king, you follow his every word, you don't go out and get hammered or snort coke, you live your life to take this football club forward". That comes from the top. THE BOARD MUST SHOW SOME LEADERSHIP, NOW.

The board are NOT backing the manager, at all.

For crying out loud, the wrist slitters on this forum need to think, open their eyes and realise what is going on. There is no leadership at the very top (finances aside) there is no backing for the manager.
:agree: We've been here time and time again, but somehow in the here and now not everyone can see it

[basehibby]

Its like groundhogg day. We need new players etc. A team should be in place for the start of the season not four games into the season because transfer window closes. Basically Hibs are playing a 34 game season this year. With our current squad we will get zero points from oir first four games. Could prob reduce that to 31 games as Celtic will beat us easily. So thats 31 games to get enough points to 1. Stay up 2. Reach top 6 or 3. Challenge for UEFA spot

:agree: Got to agree with this - it's like a recurring bad dream that just keeps getting scarier every time.

I can accept that there's a case for a manager doing SOME of his shopping at the last minute in order to pick up a steal here and there - but that only really holds any water AFTER the core of the side has been built.

Right now we have the core of a team of relegation strugglers and if the improvement of this team is being delayed as a matter of deliberate policy then it is tantamount to surrendering precious SPL points and is totally counterproductive in terms of encouraging fans to buy STs. In short, if it is a policy coming from above then we are being sold short and something needs to change.

Every Hibs fan that has bought an ST this year has basically done it as a matter of blind faith and/or loyalty to the club. I would have been amazed if we got a point at Tannadice today and will be equally amazed if we get anything out of Hearts next week with the current team. I am hopeful that Fenlon will be allowed to bring in further signings before the end of the window who can make a positive difference, but is this really fair on ST holders who shell out for a 38 game season? I think not.

[Emerald]

It shows that there is a culture problem at the club. PF has been a stubborn disciplinarian at previous clubs, I'd put money on it not being down to him.

So in your opinion, would you say he is doing a fine job with the limited resources he has? If so can you point out one thing that he has improved since he came that gives you hope for the coming season. I really need something to believe in but I'm not getting the vibes you are. Please :pray:

[Northernhibee]

So in your opinion, would you say he is doing a fine job with the limited resources he has? If so can you point out one thing that he has improved since he came that gives you hope for the coming season. I really need something to believe in but I'm not getting the vibes you are. Please :pray:

It's impossible to judge. We could have Mourinho in the dugout and still lose with the lack of leadership at the club.

[Baldy Foghorn]

:brickwall

Look at all the past interviews in pre-season and read between the lines.

There are lots of players who don't want to come to this. PF hasn't been going "Oh look, we're short of quality. Let's not sign as many players who will make a positive impact as we can", he's put in a lot of legwork and it's not always come off.

That interview is reassuring that he's pissed off, that his instructions weren't followed and he'll go through them like a dose of salts.

The problem is - and has been for a long time - at a higher level than the manager. The rot has set in.

:agree: unfortunately

[Emerald]

It's impossible to judge. We could have Mourinho in the dugout and still lose with the lack of leadership at the club.

Not the answer I was hoping for. :dunno:

[3pm]

I don't know what you're referring to with the urgency, do you mean in getting players in, or from the players here?

I think he'd liked to have had more in by now but the reality uis it's proving difficult. I don't think that's down to Fenlon though.

I can only comment on what I can see....the urgency on the park. And some of the decisions.

[hibees 7062]

It's impossible to judge. We could have Mourinho in the dugout and still lose with the lack of leadership at the club.

And the same gutless players as last season

[Northernhibee]

Not the answer I was hoping for. :dunno:

Tough ****. It's the truth.

[Baldy Foghorn]

There was no urgency at any point in our play Today....I was near LOB Today, and he did not really seem to be doing much in terms of cajoling or shouting in first half, I had bemoaned we were far too deep and needed to press up, in the second half LOB was telling them to get up park, however his words were falling on deaf ears.....Interesting to see Griffiths go over a couple of times with arms outstretched, as if to say, what can I do.......

Really was shambolic Today......

[HoboHarry]

Judging by this thread it seems to me that it must be the end of the world. Is it ok for me to go out and play golf or are we all meant to stay indoors?

[Emerald]

Tough ****. It's the truth.

So Pats doing the best he can and Mourinho could do no better? Pat who can do no wrong with his wonderfull tactics and team selections and players who don't listen to him. Whats in store this week then?

[Ozyhibby]

All very well claiming Petrie etc but Hibs currently have the third biggest budget in the league but probably the 12th best team. That's down to Fenlon and if he can't improve us then he needs to move on.

[IWasThere2016]

Shock horror .... We need more players !!'

Eff me we've been saying this since the end of the season

For those who reckon its ok to wait til last minute.....
Today was evidence yiz were wrong by a country mile

No surprise - same every season

Naw we dinnae need early signings and a settled team for the beginning of the season ......

This. We repeat the same mistakes (eg don't get enough players in, earlier enough to settle, be match fit etc) and learn nothing. It is pathetic.

[scuttle]

It is so blatantly clear cut 100% ****ing obvious that the issue with this club lies with the board I can't believe that people on here are falling for the trick of blaming the manager YET AGAIN.

In those Q&As when the board set "The manager sets the culture at the club"? Man the **** up and show some leadership, the culture should be "The manager is king, you follow his every word, you don't go out and get hammered or snort coke, you live your life to take this football club forward". That comes from the top. THE BOARD MUST SHOW SOME LEADERSHIP, NOW.

The board are NOT backing the manager, at all.

For crying out loud, the wrist slitters on this forum need to think, open their eyes and realise what is going on. There is no leadership at the very top (finances aside) there is no backing for the manager.

The board as far as im aware are not picking the players ,setting the tactics,or takiing training.We are far to negative tactically and have been creating nothing during matches for almost a year. This is NOT Petries fault,his fault lies in who hes picking as managers

[BoltonHibee]

The board as far as im aware are not picking the players ,setting the tactics,or takiing training.We are far to negative tactically and have been creating nothing during matches for almost a year. This is NOT Petries fault,his fault lies in who hes picking as managers

Spot on

[Brizo]

Watching Dundee United today it struck me they have two things we dont. A consistency of approach as a club where Houston has inherited the template laid down by Potter. And a consistency in the type of player they go for where having a physical presence, being comfortable on the ball and knowing how to retain the ball appear to be prerequistes. Watching them play in triangles all over the pitch it struck me they must have that gameplan drilled into them continuously at training. Add in a couple of players with the flair and creativity we so clearly lack and its easy to see why they will be up there with the best of the rest this season.

United are the model we should aspire to. Unfortunaterly a conveyor belt of managers and too many poor signings means we have no consistent approach as a club or any consistency in the type of player we recruit or style of football we play (despite the mythical "Hibs style" tag we often delude ourselves with).

If it transpires that the job is too big or beyond the capabilities of yet another manager when do those responsible for manager recruitment question their part in this conveyor belt of mediocrity.

[Emerald]

Watching Dundee United today it struck me they have two things we dont. A consistency of approach as a club where Houston has inherited the template laid down by Potter. And a consistency in the type of player they go for where having a physical presence, being comfortable on the ball and knowing how to retain the ball appear to be prerequistes. Watching them play in triangles all over the pitch it struck me they must have that gameplan drilled into them continuously at training. Add in a couple of players with the flair and creativity we so clearly lack and its easy to see why they will be up there with the best of the rest this season.

United are the model we should aspire to. Unfortunaterly a conveyor belt of managers and too many poor signings means we have no consistent approach as a club or any consistency in the type of player we recruit or style of football we play (despite the mythical "Hibs style" tag we often delude ourselves with).

If it transpires that the job is too big or beyond the capabilities of yet another manager when do those responsible for manager recruitment question their part in this conveyor belt of mediocrity.

We can only dream of mediocrity!

[hibsmad]

The board as far as im aware are not picking the players ,setting the tactics,or takiing training.We are far to negative tactically and have been creating nothing during matches for almost a year. This is NOT Petries fault,his fault lies in who hes picking as managers

Completely agree.

I don't understand how the board can make the fourth biggest budget available to the manager, and then when the product on the park is pish, it's the boards fault!

There's no way that I am calling for Fenlon to go as he needs more time. However I was raging when he started Kujabi in the final as it seemed like a completely basic mistake, and now being in a position at the start of the season where he has had to start Stephens and Hanlon in our back four as well as Stevenson and Sproule in midfield means that I am getting more and more worried. As far as I am concerned we quite simply should have been more improved in time for the start of the season.

[Ray_]

The part that concerns me most is that they didn't do what he told them. You can bring in all the players you like, but if they do not follow the instructions of the manager, NASA we have a problem. Is that not where the captain and the manager should be co operating, the manager at the training ground, and on the side line, and the captain following and making others follow the managers instructions on the field.

That was John Hughes major beef as well, perhaps its the fact they are not good enough to do what they are supposed to do, against the superior players most of the other SPL teams seem to have.

[Northernhibee]

The board as far as im aware are not picking the players ,setting the tactics,or takiing training.We are far to negative tactically and have been creating nothing during matches for almost a year. This is NOT Petries fault,his fault lies in who hes picking as managers

Thereyou go. EVEN IF IT'S PAT FENLONS FAULT (it's not), it's Rods fault for having a very poor recruitment policy. Cheers.

We would be naive to think that five new faces would be enough, we needed about fifteen. Other clubs have modernised and gone for smaller squads with more quality, we haven't and our general quality of player has slipped behind the other teams.

We need to get in a new team that are in line with that level. That takes time, it takes continuity. It doesn't take changing manager every twelve months because you keep wetting the bed.

PF can only pick from the players that he has - it's not even close to his team yet as the board needded to show leadership and take a risk by backing him financially more than ever before and allowing as big a transformation as possible. The problem is that the boards long term strategy for the club has left us with a lower class of player than before - five players will not fix that.

Swapping managers every year has not done any good. You lot are as good at recognising patterns as Ian Black at his local wallpaper shop.

[scuttle]

Thereyou go. EVEN IF IT'S PAT FENLONS FAULT (it's not), it's Rods fault for having a very poor recruitment policy. Cheers.

We would be naive to think that five new faces would be enough, we needed about fifteen. Other clubs have modernised and gone for smaller squads with more quality, we haven't and our general quality of player has slipped behind the other teams.

We need to get in a new team that are in line with that level. That takes time, it takes continuity. It doesn't take changing manager every twelve months because you keep wetting the bed.

PF can only pick from the players that he has - it's not even close to his team yet as the board needded to show leadership and take a risk by backing him financially more than ever before and allowing as big a transformation as possible. The problem is that the boards long term strategy for the club has left us with a lower class of player than before - five players will not fix that.

Swapping managers every year has not done any good. You lot are as good at recognising patterns as Ian Black at his local wallpaper shop.


Heres a pattern for you ,we were crap last season and nothing looks like its changed this season. I recall two attempts [if you can call them that ] today
on goal,and surely an expert like you realises you cant score you dont win ,and it was like that last season as well . As for wetting the bed if you are happy with what your watching at present then id rather lie in my own pish than be deluded enough to think its the boards fault

[Springbank]

We employ and play too many losers. What is wotherspoons win/lose record? And hanlons? And all the others. Too few characters too many accepting defeat.

[Northernhibee]

Heres a pattern for you ,we were crap last season and nothing looks like its changed this season. I recall two attempts [if you can call them that ] today
on goal,and surely an expert like you realises you cant score you dont win ,and it was like that last season as well . As for wetting the bed if you are happy with what your watching at present then id rather lie in my own pish than be deluded enough to think its the boards fault
We've only played one game. I'm an expert in noticing the number one, if that counts.

Also, the transfer window isn't close to closing.

Thinking that the board are blameless is delusion to a whole new level, and writing off the season already is bed wetting to a new level.

[scuttle]

We've only played one game. I'm an expert in noticing the number one, if that counts.

Also, the transfer window isn't close to closing.

Thinking that the board are blameless is delusion to a whole new level, and writing off the season already is bed wetting to a new level.


I notice on another thread you call us F****** woeful, I think you need to make your mind up, and if you think Doyle played well today thats taking it to another level of happy clapping. You are fortunate at your tender age that you havnt seen too many bad Hibs sides, an old codger like myself has seen a few and this one so far is right up there believe me

[Northernhibee]

I notice on another thread you call us F****** woeful, I think you need to make your mind up, and if you think Doyle played well today thats taking it to another level of happy clapping. You are fortunate at your tender age that you havnt seen too many bad Hibs sides, an old codger like myself has seen a few and this one so far is right up there believe me

It really was a poor performance today.

But then again I know the difference between one game and a season.

Do you become psychic in old age like?

[eastmainsmsh]

Fenlon signed a leader in mcpake however we need a leader in the middle of the park ? Hopefully Deegan can be the midfield general :flag:however Fenlons hands are tied by Rodders could be in for another slug

[scuttle]

It really was a poor performance today.

But then again I know the difference between one game and a season.

Do you become psychic in old age like?

No but I get bored easily,so im away to ma bed ,hopefuly ill not wet it

[Jim44]

We employ and play too many losers. What is wotherspoons win/lose record? And hanlons? And all the others. Too few characters too many accepting defeat.

Nail on head. It's a catch 22 situation where our reputation for being inveterate losers prevents us from persuading decent players to sign for us.

[Famous5forever]

The man is clueless

Paddy talks the talk but he does not walk the walk he has now had 2 transfer windows and plenty money thrown at them, the bottom line is and i hate to say it but we are actually in a worse state now than before Paddy took over from CC.

[sahib]

That was John Hughes major beef as well, perhaps its the fact they are not good enough to do what they are supposed to do, against the superior players most of the other SPL teams seem to have.

Thank goodness for a rational post.:agree:
I am sick of all this name calling of the players and mythical culture problems.

[gegs70]

Why did he play stephens....hanlon had improved last season but still wasnt quite there.

Och no point in doing this over I think another season of flirting with disaster....and no progress....just play the kids they seem ti have the passion stanton, caldwell and handling!

[Captain Trips]

We've only played one game. I'm an expert in noticing the number one, if that counts.

Also, the transfer window isn't close to closing.

Thinking that the board are blameless is delusion to a whole new level, and writing off the season already is bed wetting to a new level.

What has a new season got to do with it? The team was a joke last season it needed wholesale changes those have not happened so why would the team do really any better just because it's a new season? The same problems are still there on the whole.

[BoltonHibee]

Paddy talks the talk but he does not walk the walk he has now had 2 transfer windows and plenty money thrown at them, the bottom line is and i hate to say it but we are actually in a worse state now than before Paddy took over from CC.

I agree with you, I think we are in a far worse situation

[basehibby]

Paddy talks the talk but he does not walk the walk he has now had 2 transfer windows and plenty money thrown at them, the bottom line is and i hate to say it but we are actually in a worse state now than before Paddy took over from CC.

You're entitled to your opinion about Paddy's abilities but he won't have had 2 transfer windows until 31st August and has certainly not been showered with cash from what I can gather so far - although he was given plenty of flexibility with loan signings in jan.

As things stand compared with when CC was punted we're probably a bit stiffer in defence, weaker up front with not much difference in the middle - not much progress if any but Paddy still has a few weeks to pool recruits before we can start making any reasonable comparisons IMO.

[Albion Hibs]

I have not bothered reading what Fenlon had to say for himself after the game yesterday, one because i am not interested in what he has to say, and two because it will be the same media sound bite he has been chucking to the fans since the day we walked through the door, as always no doubt distancing himself and throwing his players to the sword - newsflash pat this rest with you.

As for this nonsense about the board not supporting a manager, go back and look across the last 3 or 4 managers, i dont think there are many teams in the spl that will be aloud the change a squad every transfer window which is exactly the backing that any manager would want.

[DaveF]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19138654

'We're a little bit short'



It's Colin Calderwood take II.

Less talk, more action Pat. You don't have a lot of time.

[Andy74]

I agree with you, I think we are in a far worse situation

No we're not, thew club is being changed in terms of the expectations from the players and the type of characters we bring in to play. We are nowhere near working through that but at least it is being done.

As Pat says you can't lose 16 players, bring in 6 and expect to better at this stage.

[Onion]

What has a new season got to do with it? The team was a joke last season it needed wholesale changes those have not happened so why would the team do really any better just because it's a new season? The same problems are still there on the whole.

Agreed. Why would anyone think that a team that was as bad as Hibs last season were going to be any better with a watered down version of the same squad this term? The RFC thing screwed us but the fundamental issue is the incompetence of the Board.

[Onion]

No we're not, thew club is being changed in terms of the expectations from the players and the type of characters we bring in to play. We are nowhere near working through that but at least it is being done.

As Pat says you can't lose 16 players, bring in 6 and expect to better at this stage.

Yip, I remember reading that in the Season Ticket renewal marketing material.

[Onion]

On the bright side, at least we, the Board and Pat can all see just how bad this team is before the Window closes. If they fail to take action now they should all be fired.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

One thing to say that players did not do what Fenlon had asked them to, but I wonder if they have a grip on what that is. I wouldn't be able to describe Fenlon's style of play.

[Albion Hibs]

No we're not, thew club is being changed in terms of the expectations from the players and the type of characters we bring in to play (Fenlon, Pat - 2011-Probably for a good few months). We are nowhere near working through that but at least it is being done.

As Pat says you can't lose 16 players, bring in 6 and expect to better at this stage.

Even some of the fans are starting to sound like him.

Pat can blame everyone he wants, but out of the 16 how many where first team players that were at the club to lose? - you dont count loan players that were going back anyway. I count Murray, O'Connor, Osbourne and Stack.

If the manager choses to let players go then he surely needs to know that he has enough in the team, or keep them until the replacement is lined up. in relation to loan players from the day he gets them he must know they are leaving in 6 or 12 months time, therefore planning for them to stay / their replacement needs to start then.

[Northernhibee]

Even some of the fans are starting to sound like him.

Pat can blame everyone he wants, but out of the 16 how many where first team players that were at the club to lose? - you dont count loan players that were going back anyway. I count Murray, O'Connor, Osbourne and Stack.

If the manager choses to let players go then he surely needs to know that he has enough in the team, or keep them until the replacement is lined up. in relation to loan players from the day he gets them he must know they are leaving in 6 or 12 months time, therefore planning for them to stay / their replacement needs to start then.

The softness at the club comes from the board not supporting the manager. If the players don't back the manager they know they will get away with it as the team is not big enough to freeze them out.

We've been here before.

Really, it couldn't be more blatant.

There is a lack of leadership at board level.

Go back and read the Q&A sessions with the board and read between the lines.

It's the board, and the knee jerking bed wetters are going to let the board away with it AGAIN.

It's staggering.

[ahibby]

I think it is becoming clear that PF can't/won't be able to take us where the fans expect us to be. The Board will have the final say on signings and who is appointed manager. Therefore the board are not up to it. We need change from the top down but unfortunately that won't guarantee the improvement we need and want to see. The current board are and will be responsible for many fans falling away and perhaps never to return. I hope that when the fans see that things are as dire in a couple of months as they are now, instead of walking away with out a word, they at least protest for change (big change not just a manager).

[Albion Hibs]

The softness at the club comes from the board not supporting the manager. If the players don't back the manager they know they will get away with it as the team is not big enough to freeze them out.

What support is fenlon lacking? As i said before how many managers get the chance to buy a new team each season? I am sure when Pat was interviewed, and no doubt first chucked out one of his classic lines, he was made aware of the financial parameters, crying in the press and yet again blaming someone else wont do him any favours in the board room.

We've been here before.

Really, it couldn't be more blatant.

There is a lack of leadership at board level.

There is plenty of leadership. see above, yet again, and lets be honest if the manager was as good at identifying and contracting a team as the board are at running a business then it would be us winning the champions league this year not the hearts.

Go back and read the Q&A sessions with the board and read between the lines.

So read the writing that is not there?? that good old invisible ink, ie it says what you want it too, because the actual words dont.

It's the board, and the knee jerking bed wetters are going to let the board away with it AGAIN.

Its not the board, the managers job is to run the team, and there is no bed wetter here. from my seat at the game yesterday it looked awfully like last year, in fact it looked worse.

It's staggering.

Just the bits in bold.

[Andy74]

I think it is becoming clear that PF can't/won't be able to take us where the fans expect us to be. The Board will have the final say on signings and who is appointed manager. Therefore the board are not up to it. We need change from the top down but unfortunately that won't guarantee the improvement we need and want to see. The current board are and will be responsible for many fans falling away and perhaps never to return. I hope that when the fans see that things are as dire in a couple of months as they are now, instead of walking away with out a word, they at least protest for change (big change not just a manager).

How can it be clear with the scale of cahnge needed here that PF is not able to take us where we want to be?

From what was left to him and the amount of dross he he had to get rid of some people need to get a little bit of a grip on reality in terms of what culd be reasonably expected this year and at this stage in particular.

The signings we have been able to make have been good ones and a good indicator of what he expects.

Very clearly we need more and he knows that more than anyone. I'm not sure what else anyone would have expected him to do so far? Did we expect 16 players in the door all better quality than we had ?

That's what we need but that won't be the case for some time.

[Diclonius]

A managerial change will do absolutely nothing.

I would stick with Fenlon and remove the board.

[gegs70]

Why is it motherwell, killie, dundee utd and even hearts have a good scouting system.

Mckay-steven, templeton etc.

Maybe its the scouts we use? The manager may be identifying the players and the board may not be doung enough to get the player? Therefore the manager goes to 2nd and 3rd choice player! Is that whats happening? and has happened previously?

[Hibees07]

How can it be clear with the scale of cahnge needed here that PF is not able to take us where we want to be?

From what was left to him and the amount of dross he he had to get rid of some people need to get a little bit of a grip on reality in terms of what culd be reasonably expected this year and at this stage in particular.

The signings we have been able to make have been good ones and a good indicator of what he expects.

Very clearly we need more and he knows that more than anyone. I'm not sure what else anyone would have expected him to do so far? Did we expect 16 players in the door all better quality than we had ?

That's what we need but that won't be the case for some time.


Pat Fenlon has not improved the performance of a single player at the club, that is what really worries me. It's all very well saying he was left with dross etc but it is his job to improve those indiviuals and at least get a reasonable level of performance out of them.

All the other clubs seem to be able to get consistant performances out of average players yet all we seem to do is replace player after player, absolutely no development of the individual on the training ground.

For me this is the key factor, Fenlon clearly has problems with communication & coaching of players, tactically he has most of us bemused and I can only imagine by what we have witnessed that the players are also struggling to understand what he is asking for.

I posted a while ago that I had heard that the training was basic schoolboy stuff, whether that was true or not I really don't know but when I see how advanced other teams are then I begin to wonder.

Strange as it would seem I actually prefered watching CC's team as we at least made a few chances.

[Andy74]

A managerial change will do absolutely nothing.

I would stick with Fenlon and remove the board.

I've supported what the Board have been trying to do but think that Calderwood was a disaster that made what was a poor situation into a crisis.

If there was a choice yes, I'd keep Fenlon and remove the Board.

Having heard him last week I think he does have a real grasp on what needs to be done here and I like the type of players he has brought in. We just need so many of them and when you are only going to bring in something better than we have in ability and character, that is a tough ask. I was voacl in trying to get rid of Calderwood so can understand what it's like when you just don't rate somone but I thught that was a pretty clear case and it's also clear to me that we need to support Fenlon.

Starting to turn against him at this stage could be suicide!

[Andy74]

Pat Fenlon has not improved the performance of a single player at the club, that is what really worries me. It's all very well saying he was left with dross etc but it is his job to improve those indiviuals and at least get a reasonable level of performance out of them.

All the other clubs seem to be able to get consistant performances out of average players yet all we seem to do is replace player after player, absolutely no development of the individual on the training ground.

For me this is the key factor, Fenlon clearly has problems with communication & coaching of players, tactically he has most of us bemused and I can only imagine by what we have witnessed that the players are also struggling to understand what he is asking for.

I posted a while ago that I had heard that the training was basic schoolboy stuff, whether that was true or not I really don't know but when I see how advanced other teams are then I begin to wonder.

Strange as it would seem I actually prefered watching CC's team as we at least made a few chances.

You last sentence makes the rest of that worthless. :shocked:

[Phil D. Rolls]

It's impossible to judge. We could have Mourinho in the dugout and still lose with the lack of leadership at the club.

Not sure that's true. Look at what Sergio achieved in Gorgie. A good manager doesn't give a toss about his board. I'm thinking of Clough at Derby, in particular.

[Hibees07]

You last sentence makes the rest of that worthless. :shocked:


Ha,ha, I did think that when I typed it but while CC was poor he did actually play an attacking formation of sorts. Problem was we couldn't defend.

[JimBHibees]

Pat Fenlon has not improved the performance of a single player at the club, that is what really worries me. It's all very well saying he was left with dross etc but it is his job to improve those indiviuals and at least get a reasonable level of performance out of them.

All the other clubs seem to be able to get consistant performances out of average players yet all we seem to do is replace player after player, absolutely no development of the individual on the training ground.

For me this is the key factor, Fenlon clearly has problems with communication & coaching of players, tactically he has most of us bemused and I can only imagine by what we have witnessed that the players are also struggling to understand what he is asking for.

I posted a while ago that I had heard that the training was basic schoolboy stuff, whether that was true or not I really don't know but when I see how advanced other teams are then I begin to wonder.

Strange as it would seem I actually prefered watching CC's team as we at least made a few chances.

I think Stevenson improved markedly when Fenlon came in as did Sparky. The team is work in progress and the fans need to stick with him and give him a proper chance of transforming the team. Passing on some of the other nonsense gossip about communication and training as fact really is a piece of nonsense and needs to stop or you may as well be wearing a Hearts scarf on Sunday as you will be doing their job for them.

[Northernhibee]

Just the bits in bold.

What support is fenlon lacking? As i said before how many managers get the chance to buy a new team each season? I am sure when Pat was interviewed, and no doubt first chucked out one of his classic lines, he was made aware of the financial parameters, crying in the press and yet again blaming someone else wont do him any favours in the board room.


We're not talking about financial backing here although I think we needed in more players ready for pre-season and the board should have had the leadership abilities to take a calculated risk and facilitate this.

We'll go back to the JC thing. Back in the Q&A sessions, a board member stated that when confronted, the players were told to take it up with the manager. Wrong answer. The culture should be "the manager is king. You do as the manager says or you are not part of the managers team". That is backing the manager, that is supporting the manager. It's the "ask your mum if you can have a sweetie" approach. No leadership whatsoever.

In that Q&A session, the board member stated that "the manager dictates the culture at the club" and it sounds like there's a disconnect between the manager and the board. The board need the bollocks to sit with the manager and create a united front where it's not the culture of the manager but the culture of the entire club. If a player doesn't like being told to not go boozing every Saturday night then he has someone to go to i.e. the board. If it's ingrained in the club that "We do not have a boozing culture, you live your life at this club as a professional athlete", then THAT is leadership and supporting the manager.

The softness ingrained in the club from board level is clear. It goes against every single manager we've had since JC.


There is plenty of leadership. see above, yet again, and lets be honest if the manager was as good at identifying and contracting a team as the board are at running a business then it would be us winning the champions league this year not the hearts.

PFs targets have been the solid players in our team. McPake,Williams, Doyle, Griffiths (he chose to bring him back), Clancy, Cairney - all players the majority of .netters are agreed have either good potential or are solid,reliable players. Nothing wrong with that.

The long term strategy of the board has left us toothless. Unable to nail our #1 signing targets a lot of the time, crowds down, a succession of managers unable to change the culture within our club.

Let's be clear here, CC, Yogi and PF have all identified a weakness and lack of leadership within the team (see CC's "soft as *****" quote for reference). They will not have come in and said "Right,we have a soft team with little fight and a boozing culture, that's just what we need",they have tried to change it and failed (PF the jury is still open). PF in particular has a reputation as a disciplinarian and someone who gets the best out of all of his players, I refuse to believe that PF has changed his approach.

The lack of leadership comes from elsewhere, and reading between the lines of a lot of PF interviews I think he's getting very pissed off and I do read it as he sees our weakness starts at the very top.

Go back and read the Q&A sessions with the board and read between the lines.

So read the writing that is not there?? that good old invisible ink, ie it says what you want it too, because the actual words dont.

PF is a very clever man. He knows he can't come out and say "The board are useless, by the way. Total *****" as he'd get the boot and not work in football again. I think it's clear that there's an underlying message here.

It's the board, and the knee jerking bed wetters are going to let the board away with it AGAIN.

Its not the board, the managers job is to run the team, and there is no bed wetter here. from my seat at the game yesterday it looked awfully like last year, in fact it looked worse.

Look at the pattern.

Board and Collins = Fairly nasty split.
Board and Mixu = Didn't work out
Board and Yogi = Didn't work out
Board and CC = Didn't work out, CC wanted away after seven months
Board and Nutsy = Not working out so far.

There's a common denominator there.

Furthermore, Collins and Yogi are working well on pushing Livi forward, Mixu went on to do well, PF has been successful throughout his managerial career and CC moved on to a Championship side as part of a successful managerial team.

The players too. Vaz Te, Rankin - players dismissed as "pish" at Hibs but been superb elsewhere.

The management and the players are variables here. The board is the constant.

We've tried bottom up restructuring to turn our club around. It's not worked as it's not the problem. Time for top down restructuring.

[ahibby]

How can it be clear with the scale of cahnge needed here that PF is not able to take us where we want to be?

From what was left to him and the amount of dross he he had to get rid of some people need to get a little bit of a grip on reality in terms of what culd be reasonably expected this year and at this stage in particular.

The signings we have been able to make have been good ones and a good indicator of what he expects.

Very clearly we need more and he knows that more than anyone. I'm not sure what else anyone would have expected him to do so far? Did we expect 16 players in the door all better quality than we had ?

That's what we need but that won't be the case for some time.

Nothing I saw on Sunday makes me think he has made good signings, exception perhaps the goalkeeper. Nothing I saw on Saturday or last season leads me to believe that he knows enough about players or organising players sufficiently well enough to ever get them close to the top six. We are aware of the building exercise required but there are those other faults which can't be ignored. People have been asking for time for two or three seasons. We have time aplenty as long as the level we are at is acceptable because I for one believe that we could give PF and this board a life time and it won't make a blind bit of difference to our success. I have seen nothing from tactics nor signings that give me hope for the future. We gave Mixu, Yogi and CC time now it's PF turn, every season is getting worse. If we even get close to top six I'll be happy but it looks like relegation fighting again or at best third bottom because Dundee and Kilmarnock can't be any better than we are. Part of the reason I think we will survive the SPL this season is because Dundee haven't had time to prepare for it. We might also survive if they extend the size of the leagues because of SPL1 and 2.

[ahibby]

I think Stevenson improved markedly when Fenlon came in as did Sparky. The team is work in progress and the fans need to stick with him and give him a proper chance of transforming the team. Passing on some of the other nonsense gossip about communication and training as fact really is a piece of nonsense and needs to stop or you may as well be wearing a Hearts scarf on Sunday as you will be doing their job for them.

The majority of the descenters on the board wil get behind the team at the weekend but we dont' train, motivate and organise the team and I think you'll find come Sunday, like yesterday that is where the problem will lie; not with the fans.

[Hibees07]

I think Stevenson improved markedly when Fenlon came in as did Sparky. The team is work in progress and the fans need to stick with him and give him a proper chance of transforming the team. Passing on some of the other nonsense gossip about communication and training as fact really is a piece of nonsense and needs to stop or you may as well be wearing a Hearts scarf on Sunday as you will be doing their job for them.


I'm pretty sure Hearts won't need to look at any comment's I make to know what our weaknesses are and how to go about exploiting them again.

I never said it was a 'fact' that there were communication problems but Pat Fenlon stated quite clearly that the players never carried out his instructions yesterday and that is not the first time he has made that comment. I would also suggest that hand on heart you like me have no idea what his tactics are and watching them play it appears the players have no idea either.

In terms of player improvement I can understand your comment regarding Stevenson, although I would also suggest that he is one of the players that a large number of supporters want punted, which in itself suggests he has not improved from when Calderwood dropped him (yes, he has played games but is he actually a better player). Sparky, in my opinion has not nearly produced enough yet to suggest he is a better player under Fenlon.

It's all about opinions though.

[Andy74]

The majority of the descenters on the board wil get behind the team at the weekend but we dont' train, motivate and organise the team and I think you'll find come Sunday, like yesterday that is where the problem will lie; not with the fans.

Or on Sunday it could be again that we don't have as many good players yet as the opposition?

[StevieC]

I think Stevenson improved markedly when Fenlon came in as did Sparky.

I'd add Hanlon to that list as well.

Doyle seems a bit more confident, although not sure I would stretch to "improved markedly".

[The Modfather]

The softness at the club comes from the board not supporting the manager. If the players don't back the manager they know they will get away with it as the team is not big enough to freeze them out.

We've been here before.

Really, it couldn't be more blatant.

There is a lack of leadership at board level.

Go back and read the Q&A sessions with the board and read between the lines.

It's the board, and the knee jerking bed wetters are going to let the board away with it AGAIN.

It's staggering.

Did we ever get an answer from the board to the second tranche of questions? Or did they just cherry pick the easy questions.

[BEEJ]

Very clearly we need more and he knows that more than anyone. I'm not sure what else anyone would have expected him to do so far? Did we expect 16 players in the door all better quality than we had ?

That's what we need but that won't be the case for some time.
With 15 or 16 departures, I would have expected at least ten good signings to be embedded in the squad in time for the start of the league campaign.

I don't think that is an unreasonable ask under the circumstances.


Or on Sunday it could be again that we don't have as many good players yet as the opposition?
And they haven't signed anyone yet in this window.

Go figure.

[Famous5forever]

I think it is becoming clear that PF can't/won't be able to take us where the fans expect us to be. The Board will have the final say on signings and who is appointed manager. Therefore the board are not up to it. We need change from the top down but unfortunately that won't guarantee the improvement we need and want to see. The current board are and will be responsible for many fans falling away and perhaps never to return. I hope that when the fans see that things are as dire in a couple of months as they are now, instead of walking away with out a word, they at least protest for change (big change not just a manager).

The situation is now serious we have a manager with a worse record (I REPEAT WORSE ) Record than CC And the situation is deteriorating fast, The man is clearly out of his depth and drastic action is needed ASAP Before he wastes more money.
There needs to be a war chest for the new Manager to work with or it will be like appointing a toothless Tiger.

[Dirkster23]

Or on Sunday it could be again that we don't have as many good players yet as the opposition?

Your right Andy, we don't have as many good players as Hearts or United at the moment. I can live with that If we're making efforts to bring guys in before the window shuts. What I can't accept is how the last 2 games against these teams has been like watching men against boys. We're short on quality, but where's the dig and pride that lets weaker teams compete against stronger opposition?

[Andy74]

Your right Andy, we don't have as many good players as Hearts or United at the moment. I can live with that If we're making efforts to bring guys in before the window shuts. What I can't accept is how the last 2 games against these teams has been like watching men against boys. We're short on quality, but where's the dig and pride that lets weaker teams compete against stronger opposition?

That's what we don't have either and is much harder to get right.

When we spoke to Fenlon at the supporters grup thing this is what he sadi was the worst bit to take and what he needed to sort out by brining in different players, because you couldn't coach this in to players and there was virtually no player currently here that had those qualities.

I think the guys we've brought in are a step in the right direction on this front but we need more, no doubt about that.

[Albion Hibs]

What support is fenlon lacking? As i said before how many managers get the chance to buy a new team each season? I am sure when Pat was interviewed, and no doubt first chucked out one of his classic lines, he was made aware of the financial parameters, crying in the press and yet again blaming someone else wont do him any favours in the board room.


We're not talking about financial backing here although I think we needed in more players ready for pre-season and the board should have had the leadership abilities to take a calculated risk and facilitate this.

Why is that the boards fault, where is the line here, since when did it become the responsibility of the board to get players in to ensure the manager had enough players to ensure there was a start. It is the managers responsibility to get players in make a decision and work to a budget. There are plenty have people that can pick a start 11 - see the thread for next weeks game - to constantly blame the board for the team is boring.

We'll go back to the JC thing. Back in the Q&A sessions, a board member stated that when confronted, the players were told to take it up with the manager. Wrong answer. The culture should be "the manager is king. You do as the manager says or you are not part of the managers team". That is backing the manager, that is supporting the manager. It's the "ask your mum if you can have a sweetie" approach. No leadership whatsoever.

Totally disagree - it is like the children did not get the answer they wanted of mum so they went to dad - rather than him having his dinner fed to the dog he said go back to your mum, if they had made a decision it would have been interfering in the team.

In that Q&A session, the board member stated that "the manager dictates the culture at the club" and it sounds like there's a disconnect between the manager and the board. The board need the bollocks to sit with the manager and create a united front where it's not the culture of the manager but the culture of the entire club. If a player doesn't like being told to not go boozing every Saturday night then he has someone to go to i.e. the board. If it's ingrained in the club that "We do not have a boozing culture, you live your life at this club as a professional athlete", then THAT is leadership and supporting the manager.

Maybe is the "managers" job to "manage" his players. I dont believe for a second that the board would not support the manager in an approach to any of the above subjects, but that is Fenlons job. As a manager at work do you expect your bosses to manage the people that work and report to you - all your approach is doing is undermining the manager by opening a second line of complaint.

The softness ingrained in the club from board level is clear. It goes against every single manager we've had since JC.


There is plenty of leadership. see above, yet again, and lets be honest if the manager was as good at identifying and contracting a team as the board are at running a business then it would be us winning the champions league this year not the hearts.

PFs targets have been the solid players in our team. McPake,Williams, Doyle, Griffiths (he chose to bring him back), Clancy, Cairney - all players the majority of .netters are agreed have either good potential or are solid,reliable players. Nothing wrong with that.

The long term strategy of the board has left us toothless. Unable to nail our #1 signing targets a lot of the time, crowds down, a succession of managers unable to change the culture within our club.

Let's be clear here, CC, Yogi and PF have all identified a weakness and lack of leadership within the team (see CC's "soft as *****" quote for reference). They will not have come in and said "Right,we have a soft team with little fight and a boozing culture, that's just what we need",they have tried to change it and failed (PF the jury is still open). PF in particular has a reputation as a disciplinarian and someone who gets the best out of all of his players, I refuse to believe that PF has changed his approach.

The lack of leadership comes from elsewhere, and reading between the lines of a lot of PF interviews I think he's getting very pissed off and I do read it as he sees our weakness starts at the very top.

Go back and read the Q&A sessions with the board and read between the lines.

So read the writing that is not there?? that good old invisible ink, ie it says what you want it too, because the actual words dont.

PF is a very clever man. He knows he can't come out and say "The board are useless, by the way. Total *****" as he'd get the boot and not work in football again. I think it's clear that there's an underlying message here.

It's the board, and the knee jerking bed wetters are going to let the board away with it AGAIN.

Its not the board, the managers job is to run the team, and there is no bed wetter here. from my seat at the game yesterday it looked awfully like last year, in fact it looked worse.

Look at the pattern.

Board and Collins = Fairly nasty split.
Board and Mixu = Didn't work out
Board and Yogi = Didn't work out
Board and CC = Didn't work out, CC wanted away after seven months
Board and Nutsy = Not working out so far.

There's a common denominator there.

Yes a team and performance that did not meet the fans expectations. The above is the result, not the pattern.

Furthermore, Collins and Yogi are working well on pushing Livi forward, Mixu went on to do well, PF has been successful throughout his managerial career and CC moved on to a Championship side as part of a successful managerial team.

The players too. Vaz Te, Rankin - players dismissed as "pish" at Hibs but been superb elsewhere.

The management and the players are variables here. The board is the constant.

We've tried bottom up restructuring to turn our club around. It's not worked as it's not the problem. Time for top down restructuring.

Anyone that thinks the board of a football club that in the uncertain financial world, that has done well financially, is going to get pumped is kidding themselves.The board is lacking one thing IMO and it is a John Park style character on the board to advise on footballing matters. My honest view since last year is that we do not have the right manager in charge, i have seen nothing recently to make me change my mind, in fact it has confirmed it. I would love to be wrong about Fenlon, I would love to be wrong about almost every player in our starting 11, but i dont think i will be.



Above in red....yes i Know i it becoming a little confusing and straying off topic, so happy to park this one!

[The_Horde]

What support is fenlon lacking? As i said before how many managers get the chance to buy a new team each season? I am sure when Pat was interviewed, and no doubt first chucked out one of his classic lines, he was made aware of the financial parameters, crying in the press and yet again blaming someone else wont do him any favours in the board room.


We're not talking about financial backing here although I think we needed in more players ready for pre-season and the board should have had the leadership abilities to take a calculated risk and facilitate this.

We'll go back to the JC thing. Back in the Q&A sessions, a board member stated that when confronted, the players were told to take it up with the manager. Wrong answer. The culture should be "the manager is king. You do as the manager says or you are not part of the managers team". That is backing the manager, that is supporting the manager. It's the "ask your mum if you can have a sweetie" approach. No leadership whatsoever.

In that Q&A session, the board member stated that "the manager dictates the culture at the club" and it sounds like there's a disconnect between the manager and the board. The board need the bollocks to sit with the manager and create a united front where it's not the culture of the manager but the culture of the entire club. If a player doesn't like being told to not go boozing every Saturday night then he has someone to go to i.e. the board. If it's ingrained in the club that "We do not have a boozing culture, you live your life at this club as a professional athlete", then THAT is leadership and supporting the manager.

The softness ingrained in the club from board level is clear. It goes against every single manager we've had since JC.


There is plenty of leadership. see above, yet again, and lets be honest if the manager was as good at identifying and contracting a team as the board are at running a business then it would be us winning the champions league this year not the hearts.

PFs targets have been the solid players in our team. McPake,Williams, Doyle, Griffiths (he chose to bring him back), Clancy, Cairney - all players the majority of .netters are agreed have either good potential or are solid,reliable players. Nothing wrong with that.

The long term strategy of the board has left us toothless. Unable to nail our #1 signing targets a lot of the time, crowds down, a succession of managers unable to change the culture within our club.

Let's be clear here, CC, Yogi and PF have all identified a weakness and lack of leadership within the team (see CC's "soft as *****" quote for reference). They will not have come in and said "Right,we have a soft team with little fight and a boozing culture, that's just what we need",they have tried to change it and failed (PF the jury is still open). PF in particular has a reputation as a disciplinarian and someone who gets the best out of all of his players, I refuse to believe that PF has changed his approach.

The lack of leadership comes from elsewhere, and reading between the lines of a lot of PF interviews I think he's getting very pissed off and I do read it as he sees our weakness starts at the very top.

Go back and read the Q&A sessions with the board and read between the lines.

So read the writing that is not there?? that good old invisible ink, ie it says what you want it too, because the actual words dont.

PF is a very clever man. He knows he can't come out and say "The board are useless, by the way. Total *****" as he'd get the boot and not work in football again. I think it's clear that there's an underlying message here.

It's the board, and the knee jerking bed wetters are going to let the board away with it AGAIN.

Its not the board, the managers job is to run the team, and there is no bed wetter here. from my seat at the game yesterday it looked awfully like last year, in fact it looked worse.

Look at the pattern.

Board and Collins = Fairly nasty split.
Board and Mixu = Didn't work out
Board and Yogi = Didn't work out
Board and CC = Didn't work out, CC wanted away after seven months
Board and Nutsy = Not working out so far.

There's a common denominator there.

Furthermore, Collins and Yogi are working well on pushing Livi forward, Mixu went on to do well, PF has been successful throughout his managerial career and CC moved on to a Championship side as part of a successful managerial team.

The players too. Vaz Te, Rankin - players dismissed as "pish" at Hibs but been superb elsewhere.

The management and the players are variables here. The board is the constant.

We've tried bottom up restructuring to turn our club around. It's not worked as it's not the problem. Time for top down restructuring.


Spot on my friend, the board have a lot to answer for but keep dodging the bullet before AGM time.

[Northernhibee]

The situation is now serious we have a manager with a worse record (I REPEAT WORSE ) Record than CC And the situation is deteriorating fast, The man is clearly out of his depth and drastic action is needed ASAP Before he wastes more money.
There needs to be a war chest for the new Manager to work with or it will be like appointing a toothless Tiger.

Wrong. He's got a higher winning percentage than CC and got one of the worst Hibs team in history to a cup final.

The board need to go and Fenlon needs to stay. Never been so sure of anything Hibs related.

[Hermit Crab]

Wrong. He's got a higher winning percentage than CC and got one of the worst Hibs team in history to a cup final.

The board need to go and Fenlon needs to stay. Never been so sure of anything Hibs related.



SPL record;

Fenlon: 5 wins from 23 matches (21%)
Calderwood: 11 wins from 44 matches (25%)

[Northernhibee]

Above in red....yes i Know i it becoming a little confusing and straying off topic, so happy to park this one!

We'll disagree on a lot of this, but I do agree with the John Park style character.

It also needs to be someone who will always back up the manager, as in "I'm no happy because Fenlon is working us toohard" "Awwww, diddums. That's called being a professional footballer. Start performing and following the managers orders then we can see about massaging egos". "I'm not happy because I can't go out every Saturday night and get hammered" "Awwwww, diddums. You're a professional footballer. Go an listen to the manager, start performing and then you might have something to celebrate".

I honestly think that the board have been listening to the players too much, take for example 'tache with GO'Cs "problems" this season. The attitude should have been "You have this problem? We're a football club, no a counselling service. Buck up your ideas or go".

Similarly, when the board were confronted about being too nice, or being disconnected from EM, the response was too often "Understood. We need to do this better" without any indication on how they would improve. They just accepted it and didn't show any real spine.

We need a thug in midfield and we need a big personality on the board who couldn't give two ****s if the players are peeved about double training sessions.

[Northernhibee]

SPL record;

Fenlon: 5 wins from 23 matches (21%)
Calderwood: 11 wins from 44 matches (25%)

Talking about all competitive matches.

We're seeing about half of "Fenlons team" just now - give him the full season to get in more of his team and judge then. We won't be relegated, but ffs, we need continuity. We're working in ever decreasing circles and it amazes me that he's managed to get five wins.

[Hermit Crab]

Talking about all competitive matches.

We're seeing about half of "Fenlons team" just now - give him the full season to get in more of his team and judge then. We won't be relegated, but ffs, we need continuity. We're working in ever decreasing circles and it amazes me that he's managed to get five wins.


I have no problem with Fenlon and i will continue to back him. Its the lack of forthcoming funds that has not been given to Fenlon that i have a problem with. PETRIE!!! :grr:

[Northernhibee]

I have no problem with Fenlon and i will continue to back him. Its the lack of forthcoming funds that has not been given to Fenlon that i have a problem with. PETRIE!!! :grr:

I still think this is a problem that can't be solved by money throwing.

The board need to show real balls, real leadership, really back the manager in changing the culture of the entire club otherwise we'll get worse and worse. Either that or they have to go.

[basehibby]

I still think this is a problem that can't be solved by money throwing.

The board need to show real balls, real leadership, really back the manager in changing the culture of the entire club otherwise we'll get worse and worse. Either that or they have to go.

I think it's a bit of both TBH. The manager needs to be given carte blanche over team matters to impose the culture and discipline that he sees fit - without having any real inside info, Fenlon seems to have the personality and track record to take that forward just fine.

Also however, the manager needs to be furnished with sufficient funds to compete for (and win) the signatures of players that will take his team forward. A good coach will be able to do a certain amount to help a team play to the best of their abilities. However, as the old saying goes - you can't polish a turd - and the performance of last season's team over the piece was pretty turdlike I'm sure you'll agree. That's not to say that all the players we've got are SHEIGHT as some of the more hysterical reactionaries on here would have it, but they certainly need some quality new team mates to fill the glaring gaps and help them take their game forward - and one thing that will take is MONEY!

Reading the more detailed post match comments in the scotsman.....

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/worried-pat-fenlon-demands-a-derby-response-from-hibs-after-dire-start-1-2451988

....near the end Pat comments....

"“We have been actively looking for new players for a while. But teams and players want a bit more money than we are willing to give. That’s always a problem."

...... If PF was presiding over an established 1st team then you'd probably have to say our frugality was commendable in the current climate. However - we are in a set of exceptional circumstances - almost relegated last season with plumetting season ticket sales only turned around by a Cup Final appearance ticket scramble together with fans' determination to fish their club out of the sheight in the wake of the Zombie-Huns debacle.

In my opinion this close season should have seen a change of attitude at board level commited to paying fans back with a team on the pitch worthy of getting out of bed to watch and ensuring that, right from the get-go the spectre of relegation would be consigned to the clubs' history. That has failed to materialise and IMO it is down to a failure at board level to show imagination and break out of the prevailing accountant's mind set in order to turn things around where they really matter at our club - on the pitch. Pat's comment above shows little sign that anything has changed in that respect since this time last year when we were complaining about exactly the same problem of only having half a team until 31st August - Pat is not complaining about it - maybe we should?!?

[The Green Goblin]

Or on Sunday it could be again that we don't have as many good players yet as the opposition?

It could, and how many derbies in a row will that have been the case for come ko this sunday? As much as it pains me to say it, I think we will be waiting quite a long time to have a team/squad like theirs.

[ahibby]

For all we know his instructions might have been 'keep a clean sheet for the first twenty minutes and we will use that as a platform'. Maybe how they go about doing that was left up to them. The last two competitive games have shown Hibs to be ill prepared. We will see how well prepared they are for the next few.

[Famous5forever]

SPL record;

Fenlon: 5 wins from 23 matches (21%)
Calderwood: 11 wins from 44 matches (25%)

So thats only 16 wins in the last 67 SPL Games i did not realise it was so Dire and to think we never made the top 6 in the last few seasons so we would have played the diddy teams more but can still only win 16 games.
The next AGM Will be eventful.

[Mikeystewart]

Anyone who thinks sacking Fenlon in the next 2-3 years is a good idea obviously has a very short memory, absolute non starter. Other than the fact it would be very silly it would also be very expensive once again.

bring the youngsters through and pray for league re-construction.

[Onion]

So thats only 16 wins in the last 67 SPL Games i did not realise it was so Dire and to think we never made the top 6 in the last few seasons so we would have played the diddy teams more but can still only win 16 games.
The next AGM Will be eventful.

Expect another "50 Rod Petries" speech from STF. Maybe Hibs should just give up playing and offer accountancy services to the other SPL clubs :confused:

[Cropley10]

So thats only 16 wins in the last 67 SPL Games i did not realise it was so Dire and to think we never made the top 6 in the last few seasons so we would have played the diddy teams more but can still only win 16 games.
The next AGM Will be eventful.

The next AGM will be very eventful should a 21% win ratio not increase.

I keep saying it because I still haven't seen any sign of improvement. Sure he's off-loaded the proper bona fide losers but what else.

I'd love to see what difference employing a manager who is completely out of his depth would look like.

[Andy74]

The next AGM will be very eventful should a 21% win ratio not increase.

I keep saying it because I still haven't seen any sign of improvement. Sure he's off-loaded the proper bona fide losers but what else.

I'd love to see what difference employing a manager who is completely out of his depth would look like.


The improvement is in having the right base to start with, including all the stuff we won't see in terms of the training centre and what's expected of the players.

This is his start now, you can see Calderwood's win percentage and you can see what we started with.

His ratio probably won't improve for a fair bit, not until the work to rebuild can take some effect. He's done the right thing in stripping away everything he could and I'm sure he'd love for 4 or 5 of that team on Sunday to have also gone.

I can see improvement though in the types of players that he has brought in compared to previous mangers. He just hasn't had the chance to get enough of them though.

If we manage to hound him out before he has been able to make an impact we really will deserve the shambles that will be the future after that.

[RyeSloan]

The improvement is in having the right base to start with, including all the stuff we won't see in terms of the training centre and what's expected of the players.

This is his start now, you can see Calderwood's win percentage and you can see what we started with.

His ratio probably won't improve for a fair bit, not until the work to rebuild can take some effect. He's done the right thing in stripping away everything he could and I'm sure he'd love for 4 or 5 of that team on Sunday to have also gone.

I can see improvement though in the types of players that he has brought in compared to previous mangers. He just hasn't had the chance to get enough of them though.

If we manage to hound him out before he has been able to make an impact we really will deserve the shambles that will be the future after that.


Sensible stuff Andy....you can be pretty sure then that it won't be listened to.

People talk about changing a culture like it's switching on a light. Turning around a poor culture and engraining a positive one throughout any business is a huge challenge, Pat certainly seems to know what he wants and I would agree with most of the things he has said however taking that and seeing it applied throughout the footballing side of the club will take a substantial effort and a significant amount of time.

I know we are all heartily sick of under performance but any rational look at the squad we had, the players we have lost and the players we need would surely show that the solution would never be found in a couple of close season months. I would suggest the scale of the job required will mean we will be bottom half again and that it will literally take 2-3 years not 2-3 months to get Hibs achieving at anything like the level they should be....it might not be pretty but barring Farmer gifting the club a few million to take a shortcut out of the hole we have found ourselves in that's the way it is.

Sure we can blame lot of people and the Board must take responsibility for a lot of it but it's also pretty naive to suggest that changing the board tomorrow would suddenly make Hibs a top 3 side.

None of the above will stop the weekly .net meltdown and none of it will make any of the pain easier but we must show the club, team and manager support to come good on their promise of change otherwise what’s the point and what’s the alternative?

[Cropley10]

The improvement is in having the right base to start with, including all the stuff we won't see in terms of the training centre and what's expected of the players.

This is his start now, you can see Calderwood's win percentage and you can see what we started with.

His ratio probably won't improve for a fair bit, not until the work to rebuild can take some effect. He's done the right thing in stripping away everything he could and I'm sure he'd love for 4 or 5 of that team on Sunday to have also gone.

I can see improvement though in the types of players that he has brought in compared to previous mangers. He just hasn't had the chance to get enough of them though.

If we manage to hound him out before he has been able to make an impact we really will deserve the shambles that will be the future after that.

Fair points. I'm not hounding anyone. I just don't see what you do, particularly with these players.