Message for Farmer and Petrie (merged)

[DarlingtonHibee]

STF and petrie support hibs in the same way as Green supports the huns, all we are is a cash cow to them, as far as income goes Hibs are the forth biggest club, as far as players budget goes, it's plain to see were miles behind, even st johnstones and motherwell. It's plain to see that the free agents that other teams don't want on low wages are just not good enough.

I'll tell you what the alternative is its a fans take over, that way we can be sure that the money going into Hibs goes to the manager to spend on the squad. But since Hibs are in debt do you think theirs any chance of Farmer selling Hibs for a pound?

Hibs a cash cow for STF and RP _ think you need to look at the accounts. :faf:

[PatHead]

The land he aquired, using Hibs as an excuse when sorting out the problems we faced in the 90s, he planned to groundshare with Hearts over a decade ago, the land where the shops are, Ikea, Saisburys, Halfords, Argos and Next!

That land, if memory serves right think the company he set up was under MA3 Stration or something. He has made millions from it!

Don't think that land was part of the main development. Certainly not Ikea, Sainsbury's. I think it was nearer the park and ride on the other side of the road. He won't have made millions from it. Hearts were considering a move to beside the Cockatoo near Danderhall if Jim Glass had got them rather than the Pieman.

[Kaiser1962]

Yes I was privy to those discussions. In fact in a so called private meeting between the accountants, lawyers and the people involved a photographer turned up. Later found out it was organised by Stf pr guru..very dissapointing, and damaging!!!!


So if there was a photographer there surely you can name the people involved?

[Kaiser1962]

Don't think that land was part of the main development. Certainly not Ikea, Sainsbury's. I think it was nearer the park and ride on the other side of the road. He won't have made millions from it. Hearts were considering a move to beside the Cockatoo near Danderhall if Jim Glass had got them rather than the Pieman.


FFS Hibs never owned any land at Straiton. Farmer did, still does, but Hibs didnt, never have. The only reason this was mentioned in the first place was because, in order to clear Hibs debt ER was possibly going to have to sold. Farmer owned the land at Straiton and it was going to transfer to the football cluib for the princely sum of £1 but it never happened because we stayed where we were.

I have no idea why, every now and again, this same nonsense keeps coming up .

[Kaiser1962]

STF and petrie support hibs in the same way as Green supports the huns, all we are is a cash cow to them, as far as income goes Hibs are the forth biggest club, as far as players budget goes, it's plain to see were miles behind, even st johnstones and motherwell. It's plain to see that the free agents that other teams don't want on low wages are just not good enough.

I'll tell you what the alternative is its a fans take over, that way we can be sure that the money going into Hibs goes to the manager to spend on the squad. But since Hibs are in debt do you think theirs any chance of Farmer selling Hibs for a pound?


If Hibs, or any club for that matter, were a "cash cow" there would be queue of people wanting to throw money at scottish football. There isnt.

[Famous5forever]

He won't, as long as STF is here

Petrie can sit there with his collar up and his bunnet pulled down but we know him we see him skulking in the background like a dark shadow at the away games, yes he gets in for free which ticks his boxes but why must we have a Misor in chatge of our club.
I Ask the question to STF ? But he responds with "The Eye of the tiger ":confused:

[PatHead]

FFS Hibs never owned any land at Straiton. Farmer did, still does, but Hibs didnt, never have. The only reason this was mentioned in the first place was because, in order to clear Hibs debt ER was possibly going to have to sold. Farmer owned the land at Straiton and it was going to transfer to the football cluib for the princely sum of £1 but it never happened because we stayed where we were.

I have no idea why, every now and again, this same nonsense keeps coming up .

No need to swear at me. I didn't say Hibs owned the land and was trying to clarify that previous poster had wrong piece of land andSTF hadn't made a fortune from it.

[Hibeesforever]

The strap line ‘Together we are Stronger’ is total nosh if our owner does not stand together with us supporters!! I personally feel it is time for Sir Tom to ‘stand up and be counted’ before his life saving heroics of my biggest local club goes down the plug hole.

This man is a businessman who knows other businessmen, surely he must look for other investment instead of requesting us penny poor supporters to feed his business!!!

Sir Tom - Donate to Pat Fenlon so he can bring in four new players, please!!!! Before it is too late.
　

Great post and I think you have nailed it. If the Chairman is asking the fans to do their bit, the fans should just come back with majority owner, what are you doing ? I would expect the majority owner to be out hosting all his rich independence mates trying to secure more funding for Hibernian Football Club. If he is not, then it is time to step aside and explain to the Hibs support that he can do no more. If he can't get a price that "he" feels that he should then it is his own fault for not investing enough in the playing staff.

We should spend over a £1 million this year. It is exactly the time when all around you are retrenching that an undervalued business should be expanding....Aberdeen, are on to this and are going for 2nd spot. Hibs should go for it now. Mediocrity is boring and will result in crowds of 6 thousand. £1 - 2 million is not a lot of money these days.

As has been pointed out, we know that we have a huge but disillusioned support.

[PatHead]

Great post and I think you have nailed it. If the Chairman is asking the fans to do their bit, the fans should just come back with majority owner, what are you doing ? I would expect the majority owner to be out hosting all his rich independence mates trying to secure more funding for Hibernian Football Club. If he is not, then it is time to step aside and explain to the Hibs support that he can do no more. If he can't get a price that "he" feels that he should then it is his own fault for not investing enough in the playing staff.

We should spend over a £1 million this year. It is exactly the time when all around you are retrenching that an undervalued business should be expanding....Aberdeen, are on to this and are going for 2nd spot. Hibs should go for it now. Mediocrity is boring and will result in crowds of 6 thousand. £1 - 2 million is not a lot of money these days.

As has been pointed out, we know that we have a huge but disillusioned support.

And how much have Aberdeen spent on their 3 free transfers. Not a million....................

[Kaiser1962]

I didn't say Hibs owned the land and was trying to clarify that previous poster had wrong piece of land andSTF hadn't made a fortune from it.

:aok:

I have no idea what piece of land he is talking about then. This is something that comes up periodically and it is total and utter pish.
Despite this he has not responded either of our replies.

[Famous5forever]

Great post and I think you have nailed it. If the Chairman is asking the fans to do their bit, the fans should just come back with majority owner, what are you doing ? I would expect the majority owner to be out hosting all his rich independence mates trying to secure more funding for Hibernian Football Club. If he is not, then it is time to step aside and explain to the Hibs support that he can do no more. If he can't get a price that "he" feels that he should then it is his own fault for not investing enough in the playing staff.

We should spend over a £1 million this year. It is exactly the time when all around you are retrenching that an undervalued business should be expanding....Aberdeen, are on to this and are going for 2nd spot. Hibs should go for it now. Mediocrity is boring and will result in crowds of 6 thousand. £1 - 2 million is not a lot of money these days.

As has been pointed out, we know that we have a huge but disillusioned support.

We need to protest like the yams did with the Russian Hats lets kick used tyres about at the back of the rear stand let us rise up and show our protest at these 2 failures running our club Petrie and Paddy i mean:flag:


STF Watch and Squirm as we stand up and be counted as we kick the used tyres:aok:

[NAE NOOKIE]

Just to be clear.

I dont for one think that STF or even RP are in Hibs to make piles of cash or even to use the club to their advantage. I really do think that both of them want the best for Hibs, I really do.

The problem is that its just not happening ........... as administrators they are as good as anybody. As the owners of the football club in a footballing sense they are a dismal failure.

Thats why I want STF and RP to make it their number one priority to find a new owner for this football club.

STF has said that ensuring that Hibs are around for the next generations of supporters is the main aim. The thing is that that should be the barest minimum aim of the owners of any football club ............ not the only aim.

The whole reason for existence for a professional football club is to entertain its supporters and win things ........ in fact most fans will settle for one or the other. If to remain in existence is its only priority then it can do that just as effectively in the East of Scotland league as an amatuer club.

As I've said before ......... STF has had all of the good stuff that goes with owning a professional football club ... the pressing the flesh in the boardroom, basking in the few moments of glory we have had, the grateful thanks of Hibs fans for saving the club.

But surely now its time for the last 20 teflon coated years to come to an end. If he wants to remain as owner of this club then its time for him to start to shoulder his share of the blame for the sad state that this club has come to on the field and not only that, but to start being a hell of a lot more proactive in the process required to get us out of this mess.

We are all in this together?

I am a bog standard wee person with a bog standard job and I live in a bog standard house. I cant even imagine the amount of money I have spent in the last 4 dreadfull years following Hibs. Dont get me wrong ... I do it gladly because I love the club and I know that a lot of folk with worse jobs and bigger commitments than me have done as much and more out of love of this club.

I do everything I can to support this club. Can our multi millionaire owner say the same?

[blackpoolhibs]

Just to be clear.

I dont for one think that STF or even RP are in Hibs to make piles of cash or even to use the club to their advantage. I really do think that both of them want the best for Hibs, I really do.

The problem is that its just not happening ........... as administrators they are as good as anybody. As the owners of the football club in a footballing sense they are a dismal failure.

Thats why I want STF and RP to make it their number one priority to find a new owner for this football club.

STF has said that ensuring that Hibs are around for the next generations of supporters is the main aim. The thing is that that should be the barest minimum aim of the owners of any football club ............ not the only aim.

The whole reason for existence for a professional football club is to entertain its supporters and win things ........ in fact most fans will settle for one or the other. If to remain in existence is its only priority then it can do that just as effectively in the East of Scotland league as an amatuer club.

As I've said before ......... STF has had all of the good stuff that goes with owning a professional football club ... the pressing the flesh in the boardroom, basking in the few moments of glory we have had, the grateful thanks of Hibs fans for saving the club.

But surely now its time for the last 20 teflon coated years to come to an end. If he wants to remain as owner of this club then its time for him to start to shoulder his share of the blame for the sad state that this club has come to on the field and not only that, but to start being a hell of a lot more proactive in the process required to get us out of this mess.

We are all in this together?

I am a bog standard wee person with a bog standard job and I live in a bog standard house. I cant even imagine the amount of money I have spent in the last 4 dreadfull years following Hibs. Dont get me wrong ... I do it gladly because I love the club and I know that a lot of folk with worse jobs and bigger commitments than me have done as much and more out of love of this club.

I do everything I can to support this club. Can our multi millionaire owner say the same?

:top marks :agree:

[silverhibee]

You just cant believe how much we have fallen, when its no certainty we will go down, as there could be a couple of teams just as bad as us? :rolleyes:

And folk get on their high horse because fans are not coming to the games anymore?


The big question has to be, have wee stopped or have we to fall even further.

I would take a waster or two in the team right now. :wink:

[Lucius Apuleius]

We need to protest like the yams did with the Russian Hats lets kick used tyres about at the back of the rear stand let us rise up and show our protest at these 2 failures running our club Petrie and Paddy i mean:flag:


STF Watch and Squirm as we stand up and be counted as we kick the used tyres:aok:

I sincerely hope to **** that this is not serious.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I sincerely hope to **** that this is not serious.

Nah ... that was definately tongue in cheeck I think.

But having said that, theres many a true word spoken in jest. For many folk their protest is to stop going. For those of us who dont see that as an option there has to be something else ..... when was the last time we had a good old protest outside the main stand after the game :greengrin

The time for that hasn't arrived yet IMO but if a quarter of the season goes by without any sign of improvement that will be the time.

In some countries after a debacle like we were put through the fans would have taken baseball bats to the players cars, set fire to the stadium and insisted that the players not play in the home strip because they dont want it disgraced any further.

Dont get me wrong ... I'm not suggesting any of that is acceptable ( well apart from the strip thing ) but these guys should realise that they owe us big time.

I watched the USA v Canada last night, womens Olympic semi final ....... passion, commitment, courage and not a little skill from both teams ..... our players should be made to watch a replay of that game and hang their heads.

[IWasThere2016]

The big question has to be, have wee stopped or have we to fall even further.

I would take a waster or two in the team right now. :wink:

Said same earlier - we haven't IMHO bottomed out as quite simply we do not have nearly enough on the park! Depressing - utterly depressing.

[southsider]

I believe there is now a facebook campaign to force RP out. Will not happen but i wish them all the luck in the world. Still, boys and girls £148 mill euro millions draw tonight.....buy your tickets guys.

[marinello59]

I believe there is now a facebook campaign to force RP out. Will not happen but i wish them all the luck in the world. Still, boys and girls £148 mill euro millions draw tonight.....buy your tickets guys.

A Facebook campaign.:faf:
That's it then, pack your bags Petrie. A couple of hundred folk sitting in their pants have left their Playstations alone long enough to click Like.

[Hibs90]

A Facebook campaign.:faf:
That's it then, pack your bags Petrie. A couple of hundred folk sitting in their pants have left their Playstations alone long enough to click Like.


http://stickerdude.co.uk/48-117-large/i-like-this-facebook-sticker-decal.jpg

[ahibby]

This is a genuine question. If Petrie did leave (doesn't matter how) and Hibs were just as gash.....what then? This is not a pro-RP post as I can see as clearly as anyone else that he is practically the only piece of the puzzle that hasn't been changed and, by a process of elimination, would appear to be the problem. I'm sure it's not that simple, I am talking about appearances.

So if RP did go and the team still didn't perform, where would Hibs be then?

I don't think that RP is necessarily the only common factor. RP brought back Scott Lindsay and between them they have set a direction for Hibs to follow. That will include scouting networks, systems and people etc. We can't guarantee that replacing the lot will bring improvements. However, they will soon run out of emotional blackmail soundbites which entice fans to buy st and support an infrastructure which is incapable of establishing and maintaining a top six spot. When more fans walk away at the end of this season other than them replacing PF with someone who has proved themselves at top six level and signing better players than we have or quitting themselves, then nothing will bring them back.

[Beefster]

I'm critical of Rodders for a fair number of things but Scott Lindsay is a far bigger problem at Hibs than Rodders ever will be.

[marinello59]

I'm critical of Rodders for a fair number of things but Scott Lindsay is a far bigger problem at Hibs than Rodders ever will be.

Can you expand on that? I really have no idea what Scott Lindsay does so not disagreeing with you.
Yet. :greengrin

[ahibby]

Can you expand on that? I really have no idea what Scott Lindsay does so not disagreeing with you.
Yet. :greengrin

Along with others he is making us worse than we have been for more than ten years. I don't think that is his remit but he seems to be doing a fairly good job of it anyway.

[marinello59]

Along with others he is making us worse than we have been for more than ten years. I don't think that is his remit but he seems to be doing a fairly good job of it anyway.

So what is his remit?

[Andy74]

If Hibs, or any club for that matter, were a "cash cow" there would be queue of people wanting to throw money at scottish football. There isnt.

Agree.

I don't see the fascination with new ownership or with 'investment'.

The only way to run a football club is to spend what you take in.

The focus should be on how best to increase our income and who is best suited to do that. If there's some sort of expectation that the owner or those running the club day to day are going to be putting any money in then forget it.

[carnoustiehibee]

No just spend it though andy, spend it properly.

Also find ways to increase revenue outwith selling our best players.

The board has failed on both counts

[Andy74]

No just spend it though andy, spend it properly.

Also find ways to increase revenue outwith selling our best players.

The board has failed on both counts

Spending it properly is the job of the manager, who they appoint, granted.

I really can't be bothered with discussing past sales again as if time has changed the circumstance at the time.

[cam2644]

There's no point in blaming the manager yet again.Hibs have the biggest untapped support in Scotland but are in real danger of losing it completely.Farmer and Petrie have played with pennies and lost thousands of pounds.Their tunnel vision risks sinking the club below the salvage line

[ginger_rice]

STF and petrie support hibs in the same way as Green supports the huns, all we are is a cash cow to them, as far as income goes Hibs are the forth biggest club, as far as players budget goes, it's plain to see were miles behind, even st johnstones and motherwell. It's plain to see that the free agents that other teams don't want on low wages are just not good enough.

I'll tell you what the alternative is its a fans take over, that way we can be sure that the money going into Hibs goes to the manager to spend on the squad. But since Hibs are in debt do you think theirs any chance of Farmer selling Hibs for a pound?

Weren't Duff and Grey Hibs "fans" ?

IMHO we have good business administrators in the boardroom but no football people on the board, I reckon a couple of Hibs minded ex-players (don't even need to have played for the cabbage, but would help if they were multi millionaires!) on the board might help to steer things in the right direction.

Running an SPL club these days is no place for enthusiastic amateurs, even "hard nosed" businessmen get it wrong (see Rankgers/Sevco), although I do believe a fans representative on the board might also help to drive the club in the right direction.

FWIW I do think that the current board may think that a severe financial storm is going to hit Scottish football, possibly worse than the conjectured current one, and they are waiting for everyone else to drop down to our level. There may be something in this, we can't (the SPL) compete with EPL/Championship (never could really), Rangers have discovered that as a big fish in a wee pond they can't compete with the big guns in Europe, and look at the debts some of those clubs have, so maybe the current financial model for the professional game cannot be sustained.

As for Hibs right now I really don't know what the answer is, I fear that there will be no quick fix, and that in the short to medium term could be disastrous.

[Beefster]

Can you expand on that? I really have no idea what Scott Lindsay does so not disagreeing with you.
Yet. :greengrin

AFAIK, Lindsay provides absolutely hee-haw leadership at the club, despite being in day-to-day control, and has been totally ineffective at putting in place any sort of effective strategy or structure for the club as a whole.

It's all very well lots of folk moaning about Farmer and Petrie but I think that things could be much better with a strong CEO who had some idea about what he was doing (or even some ideas). That should be step number one.

[ahibby]

Agree.

I don't see the fascination with new ownership or with 'investment'.

The only way to run a football club is to spend what you take in.

The focus should be on how best to increase our income and who is best suited to do that. If there's some sort of expectation that the owner or those running the club day to day are going to be putting any money in then forget it.

:agree: One way to increase revenue is to improve on the park and we need the right kind of direction and management to do that. It's not about changing the owner or perhaps (even though I've lost confidence) the directorship. It has to be about them changing their ways if their current way isn't working. I don't want to hear soundbytes from them to that effect, I just want them to do it. Some of the soundbytes I've heard make me think that SL is all fur coat and no knickers.

[ahibby]

So what is his remit?

Ask RP, he hired him.

[marinello59]

Ask RP, he hired him.

Don't you know? You are saying he isn't doing his job properly so what exactly does his job entail?

[blackpoolhibs]

I have no idea what any of the people on our board do, i do know what their aims are and what their vision for the club is. Like the team we have on the park, they are failing in every department. :rolleyes:

[Hermit Crab]

A Facebook campaign.:faf:
That's it then, pack your bags Petrie. A couple of hundred folk sitting in their pants have left their Playstations alone long enough to click Like.


Quality, well seeing its still the school holidays :rolleyes:

[marinello59]

AFAIK, Lindsay provides absolutely hee-haw leadership at the club, despite being in day-to-day control, and has been totally ineffective at putting in place any sort of effective strategy or structure for the club as a whole.

It's all very well lots of folk moaning about Farmer and Petrie but I think that things could be much better with a strong CEO who had some idea about what he was doing (or even some ideas). That should be step number one.

Thanks.

I said at the end of the season that hopefully there would be a thorough post mortem carried out and that those responsible for the shambles we saw would consider their positions. The Calderwood saga alone seemed to indicate that somebody had made a major balls up. Perhaps those at the top have simply run out of momentum. I honestly don't know who we should be pointing the finger at but I agree with you, an injection of fresh thinking is needed urgently.

[Famous5forever]

Thanks.

I said at the end of the season that hopefully there would be a thorough post mortem carried out and that those responsible for the shambles we saw would consider their positions. The Calderwood saga alone seemed to indicate that somebody had made a major balls up. Perhaps those at the top have simply run out of momentum. I honestly don't know who we should be pointing the finger at but I agree with you, an injection of fresh thinking is needed urgently.

Lets be honest the people who are responsable for appointing the last 3 Managers have to accept the blame for this mess, id accept one mistake, but not 3 in a row. Where we go from here i just do not have the answers but one thing is for sure and that is we just cant keep on plodding along the same path making the same mistakes.

[IWasThere2016]

AFAIK, Lindsay provides absolutely hee-haw leadership at the club, despite being in day-to-day control, and has been totally ineffective at putting in place any sort of effective strategy or structure for the club as a whole.

It's all very well lots of folk moaning about Farmer and Petrie but I think that things could be much better with a strong CEO who had some idea about what he was doing (or even some ideas). That should be step number one.


I have no idea what any of the people on our board do, i do know what their aims are and what their vision for the club is. Like the team we have on the park, they are failing in every department. :rolleyes:

:top marks to both!


Lets be honest the people who are responsable for appointing the last 3 Managers have to accept the blame for this mess, id accept one mistake, but not 3 in a row. Where we go from here i just do not have the answers but one thing is for sure and that is we just cant keep on plodding along the same path making the same mistakes.

We have repeated many mistakes and we wonder why nothing changes!!

Too late to in getting players in every summer .. and a blatantly obviously flawed procedure/process in appointing a manager.

Staggering mis-management, and only ever decreasing circlies lied ahead unless some fundamental change happens soon IMHO.

[Famous5forever]

:top marks to both!



We have repeated many mistakes and we wonder why nothing changes!!

Too late to in getting players in every summer .. and a blatantly obviously flawed procedure/process in appointing a manager.

Staggering mis-management, and only ever decreasing circlies lied ahead unless some fundamental change happens soon IMHO.

I think one of our biggest problems is STF Seems to have 100% blind faith in Petrie running the club remember the "Eye of the Tiger " quote at the last AGM And the fact that Petrie is supposed to be working for nought ( which i simply refuse to beleive ) will be pleasing for STF If true though plus it shows STF How loyal he is for working for free.

They blew it with the CC Mess up and the sweetie bags scandal and panic appointed Paddy who has not made any improvement despite 2 transfer windows and God knows how many players he has shipped in and out.

They got rid of BB as well to save money and have left Paddy on his own as the top cookie its like the blind leading the blind as we stagger from one week to another with no game plan on or off the Park.

[DevonLoch]

I think one of our biggest problems is STF Seems to have 100% blind faith in Petrie running the club remember the "Eye of the Tiger " quote at the last AGM And the fact that Petrie is supposed to be working for nought ( which i simply refuse to beleive ) will be pleasing for STF If true though plus it shows STF How loyal he is for working for free.

They blew it with the CC Mess up and the sweetie bags scandal and panic appointed Paddy who has not made any improvement despite 2 transfer windows and God knows how many players he has shipped in and out.

They got rid of BB as well to save money and have left Paddy on his own as the top cookie its like the blind leading the blind as we stagger from one week to another with no game plan on or off the Park.

Quotes from the 2011 accounts

"The total amount of Directors' emoluments for the year war £408,068 (2010 - £492.903)"

"The highest paid director received a basic salary of £88,000; pension contributions of £7,800 and benefits in kind os £11,693."

"The non-executive directors, Bruce Langham and amanda Jones did not receive any emoluments in respects of their services to the company"

Not sure exactly where the Tache features in those figures but he isn't specifically mentioned as receiving "no emoluments"!

[Mikey]

Quotes from the 2011 accounts

"The total amount of Directors' emoluments for the year war £408,068 (2010 - £492.903)"

"The highest paid director received a basic salary of £88,000; pension contributions of £7,800 and benefits in kind os £11,693."

"The non-executive directors, Bruce Langham and amanda Jones did not receive any emoluments in respects of their services to the company"

Not sure exactly where the Tache features in those figures but he isn't specifically mentioned as receiving "no emoluments"!

I think I'm right in saying that Petrie started drawing no salary from the beginning of the last financial year, 2011/2012. So that should be reflected in the accounts due out in a few weeks time.

The saving following Fife Hyland's departure won't really be shown until this time next year, although they'll be seeing the benefit of that now.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think I'm right in saying that Petrie started drawing no salary from the beginning of the last financial year, 2011/2012. So that should be reflected in the accounts due out in a few weeks time.

The saving following Fife Hyland's departure won't really be shown until this time next year, although they'll be seeing the benefit of that now.

"The beginning of the year" is what I remember, Mikey. I had thought it was the beginning of the last calendar year (2011), but I'm not certain.

[JimBHibees]

I think one of our biggest problems is STF Seems to have 100% blind faith in Petrie running the club remember the "Eye of the Tiger " quote at the last AGM And the fact that Petrie is supposed to be working for nought ( which i simply refuse to beleive ) will be pleasing for STF If true though plus it shows STF How loyal he is for working for free.

They blew it with the CC Mess up and the sweetie bags scandal and panic appointed Paddy who has not made any improvement despite 2 transfer windows and God knows how many players he has shipped in and out.

They got rid of BB as well to save money and have left Paddy on his own as the top cookie its like the blind leading the blind as we stagger from one week to another with no game plan on or off the Park.

Sounds all very yammish. No panic in appointing Fenlon he has a good record and needs to be given time to clear up the CC mess. Brown should never have been kept on as he wanted the manager's job and his difficult day quote prior to the cup final was a joke. Just for information Hibs have played one league game this season.

[Mikey]

"The beginning of the year" is what I remember, Mikey. I had thought it was the beginning of the last calendar year (2011), but I'm not certain.

There's a wee bit about it in the first post here but there's no starting point mentioned........

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?220889-Notes-From-The-2011-AGM

And here's the accounts.........

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?219788-The-Accounts-To-31st-July-2011-See-Them-Here

[Mikey]

"The beginning of the year" is what I remember, Mikey. I had thought it was the beginning of the last calendar year (2011), but I'm not certain.




And here's the accounts.........

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?219788-The-Accounts-To-31st-July-2011-See-Them-Here

On page 2 of the accounts it seems to suggest April 2011 so that would be a few months before year end.

[GreenCastle]

Questions have to be asked why spend money and go to Ireland before the cup final then fly to Europe for pre-season? Flights, hotels, buses etc must have added up - surely if we are tight with our money and wanting players to sign that could have been put to better use?

[marinello59]

Questions have to be asked why spend money and go to Ireland before the cup final then fly to Europe for pre-season? Flights, hotels, buses etc must have added up - surely if we are tight with our money and wanting players to sign that could have been put to better use?

Fenlon was praised for taking the players away from the pre-match hype in Edinburgh. I don't recall much (or indeed any) criticism of that trip at the time.

[GreenCastle]

Fenlon was praised for taking the players away from the pre-match hype in Edinburgh. I don't recall much (or indeed any) criticism of that trip at the time.

I thought it was stupid - as it disrupted the week and caused unnecessary change - add to the fact they came back a few days before the final and they had lots of media follow them to Ireland.

I think the preparation wasn't good at all and it showed the whole game.

[marinello59]

I thought it was stupid - as it disrupted the week and caused unnecessary change - add to the fact they came back a few days before the final and they had lots of media follow them to Ireland.

I think the preparation wasn't good at all and it showed the whole game.

And these questions that 'have' to be asked. You asked them at the time did you without the benefit of hindsight?

[Andy74]

I thought it was stupid - as it disrupted the week and caused unnecessary change - add to the fact they came back a few days before the final and they had lots of media follow them to Ireland.

I think the preparation wasn't good at all and it showed the whole game.

What showed the whole game was that we had a team full of losers and that wouldn't have changed regardless of where they had prepared.

[Hibiza]

Petrie , away and dissolve into the SPL or SfA. youre rubbish.

[Hibeesforever]

There's a wee bit about it in the first post here but there's no starting point mentioned........

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?220889-Notes-From-The-2011-AGM

And here's the accounts.........

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?219788-The-Accounts-To-31st-July-2011-See-Them-Here

Thanks for the link. the board have done really well in structuring our debt repayments. I would argue that we have plenty of capacity to take on more debt for investment in the team eg. £1-2 million .
Don't believe any of the hype about Scottish football losing revenue because of Rangers etc.
Bigger risk that Hibernian crowds go down to 6,000 and less without further investment to improve the personnel.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I thought it was stupid - as it disrupted the week and caused unnecessary change - add to the fact they came back a few days before the final and they had lots of media follow them to Ireland.

I think the preparation wasn't good at all and it showed the whole game.

Nobody knows what the preparation entailed prior to the CF, apart from the fact that the squad went to Ireland. I would bet you a pound to a penny, that no such questioning would occur had we won in May........

Are we just going to nit pick everything to the nth degree?

[Mikey]

Thanks for the link. the board have done really well in structuring our debt repayments. I would argue that we have plenty of capacity to take on more debt for investment in the team eg. £1-2 million .
Don't believe any of the hype about Scottish football losing revenue because of Rangers etc.
Bigger risk that Hibernian crowds go down to 6,000 and less without further investment to improve the personnel.

There's certainly a decent argument for getting a long term loan from STF as season ticket sales will have bottomed out now and there's nothing they can do that will result in a big upturn before the first home game. A good first dozen or so games might result in an uptake of half season tickets though and that could follow through to more ST's next season.

But it's a risk, if they get the loan and results don't improve we'll be in an even bigger hole. And if results do improve is there any guarantee that fans will return anyway?

[HFC 0-7]

What showed the whole game was that we had a team full of losers and that wouldn't have changed regardless of where they had prepared.

8 of the 16 losers that were in the team that day were still in the team on Sunday, thats the worrying thing.

[GreenCastle]

Nobody knows what the preparation entailed prior to the CF, apart from the fact that the squad went to Ireland. I would bet you a pound to a penny, that no such questioning would occur had we won in May........

Are we just going to nit pick everything to the nth degree?

I mentioned at the time I didn't think it was worthwhile or appropriate - but as a fan what is my view going to change?

I agree had we won nothing would have been mentioned - but we didn't we were humiliated - even Gretna put a better fight in the final against the yams several years ago than our current bunch of poor players.

Anyway - not nit picking but basically preparation is massive in football / sport.

I am putting it out there that this opening training session tomorrow is a bad idea before such an important game - why not do it in pre-season ? Must have onluy been decided yesterday as short notice to announce it on the website.

Questions have to be asked by decisions and do we agree the tour abroad was worth it over possible money for a salary for a better player ?

[Hibeesforever]

There's certainly a decent argument for getting a long term loan from STF as season ticket sales will have bottomed out now and there's nothing they can do that will result in a big upturn before the first home game. A good first dozen or so games might result in an uptake of half season tickets though and that could follow through to more ST's next season.

But it's a risk, if they get the loan and results don't improve we'll be in an even bigger hole. And if results do improve is there any guarantee that fans will return anyway?

Completely agree but there is a risk in everything and I would much prefer enjoying the buzz of a competitive side to restore some pride. Hopefully putting more on the walk up gate. Remember when they spent big on De La Cruz, we were able to make a profit from his on sale after one year.

Although a massive ask and unrealistic where we sit at the moment, the board should be aiming to secure a European place this year. With Rangers out of the way, it has never been easier to increase your revenue and get a European spot.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I mentioned at the time I didn't think it was worthwhile or appropriate - but as a fan what is my view going to change?

I agree had we won nothing would have been mentioned - but we didn't we were humiliated - even Gretna put a better fight in the final against the yams several years ago than our current bunch of poor players.

Anyway - not nit picking but basically preparation is massive in football / sport.

I am putting it out there that this opening training session tomorrow is a bad idea before such an important game - why not do it in pre-season ? Must have onluy been decided yesterday as short notice to announce it on the website.

Questions have to be asked by decisions and do we agree the tour abroad was worth it over possible money for a salary for a better player ?

Can't answer that, two years ago we had 4 games in Holland then European Match in Slovenia, we finished 10th. Last year we stayed put and played friendlies closer to home, we finished 11th.....

Of these two seasons can we see any correlation to going away or staying home, with league placings, not really......

PF strikes me as a guy who won't be under prepared for any match.....

[The Falcon]

I think I'm right in saying that Petrie started drawing no salary from the beginning of the last financial year, 2011/2012. So that should be reflected in the accounts due out in a few weeks time.

The saving following Fife Hyland's departure won't really be shown until this time next year, although they'll be seeing the benefit of that now.


So neither the guy that owns the club, nor the guy that the owner wants running the club, get paid?

[Mikey]

So neither the guy that owns the club, nor the guy that the owner wants running the club, get paid?

According to the accounts, yes that's the case.

[rcarter1]

So neither the guy that owns the club, nor the guy that the owner wants running the club, get paid?

I believe that Rod Petrie was once one of the highest paid directors in the SPL. To be fair to him, when performances crowds and revenue dropped it appears he decided lower and eventually forgo entirely his wage.

I just think the poor fellow is out of his depth when it comes to managing the football side of things. He got hugely fortunate with Mowbray and the 'Golden Generation', and deserves some credit for getting good sums of money for the family silver. IMHO he has since shown little understanding of what 'football' people are required to run a club when the conveyor belt of youth - inevitably - dries up. I.e, strong but controlled man manager types who know a good player when they see one, and can win their respect.

[Hibeesforever]

According to the accounts, yes that's the case.

You have just worked it out. Mr Petrie has agreed to defer wages now to realise his 10% at a later date. The question all Hibs fans should be asking the ultimate owner, Sir Tom, is what is the timeline for the exit strategy ?? On the basis that Mr Petrie owns 10% there is no way that he will resign prematurely. If ever there was evidence that our club is being mismanaged and has lost the focus which of running a successful business and hence creating a winning team. This is it.
It is time for the support to put some real pressure on Sir Tom and get these succession questions answered.
I feel sorry for Pat Fenlon for arriving at Hibernian Football Club at such a time of disorganisation. Mr Petrie, needs to be made to realise that he is the problem.

[IWasThere2016]

What showed the whole game was that we had a team full of losers and that wouldn't have changed regardless of where they had prepared.


8 of the 16 losers that were in the team that day were still in the team on Sunday, thats the worrying thing.

Yup - summer of change anyone?



According to the accounts, yes that's the case.

There are benefits in kind, and an interest bearing loan also - so there is some return. Do we know if salaries are taken from the Holding Co?

[Caversham Green]

There are benefits in kind, and an interest bearing loan also - so there is some return. Do we know if salaries are taken from the Holding Co?

Interest charged on the loan in the year ended 31 July 2011 was £5k and the holding company also charged rent of £24k for the ticket office and earned external interest of £9k, but that will be lost in 2011-2012 because virtually all the cash has been transferred to the club as an interest-free inter-company balance. There have never been any salaries paid out of the holding company as far as I can see and it made a loss of £72k for the year ended 31 July 2011. Brought forward losses are just under £2m and the book NAV is £1.38m.

[tamsonsbairn]

Petrie , away and dissolve into the SPL or SfA. youre rubbish.

That to me is the problem. RP should resign his position on the board of the SFA and get back to put his shoulder to the wheel and help us all get out of the rut we are in. He cannot possibly do the two jobs at the same time,hence he promoted whoever last year as MD (can't recall who it was) Forget the SFA, all he is doing there is getting bad vibes from the gets fans, they are convinced, rightly or wrongly, that he is one of the architects of the gers debacle. Get back to Easter Road and do the job your supposed to be doing.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Questions have to be asked why spend money and go to Ireland before the cup final then fly to Europe for pre-season? Flights, hotels, buses etc must have added up - surely if we are tight with our money and wanting players to sign that could have been put to better use?

The wee jaunt to Belgium has been one of the few recent enjoyable occasions involving Hibs, don't take that away from me!

[GreenCastle]

You have just worked it out. Mr Petrie has agreed to defer wages now to realise his 10% at a later date. The question all Hibs fans should be asking the ultimate owner, Sir Tom, is what is the timeline for the exit strategy ?? On the basis that Mr Petrie owns 10% there is no way that he will resign prematurely. If ever there was evidence that our club is being mismanaged and has lost the focus which of running a successful business and hence creating a winning team. This is it.
It is time for the support to put some real pressure on Sir Tom and get these succession questions answered.
I feel sorry for Pat Fenlon for arriving at Hibernian Football Club at such a time of disorganisation. Mr Petrie, needs to be made to realise that he is the problem.

:top marks

With all the mess and lies with Rangers recently - Scottish football seems to becoming more transparent and it's not unrealistic to ask Farmer these questions. How is he going about trying to sell or is he not selling so what will he be doing in the future to benefit the club and get us to where we should be again. No spin - just the truth.

[GreenCastle]

The wee jaunt to Belgium has been one of the few recent enjoyable occasions involving Hibs, don't take that away from me!

:greengrin Sorry! While I am glad you and the Hibs fans were great to support the team out there - I want a winning team in the sub standard SPL using all resources to achieve that.

[shetlandhibee]

This current team is relegated unless serious investment and change is made.

Hope you are both happy with yourselves tonight.

That is all.

:agree:If they dont listen were going down

[Kaiser1962]

Don't believe any of the hype about Scottish football losing revenue because of Rangers etc.



In ten seasons between 2001 and 2010 there were eight clubs ever present in the SPL and they lost a combined total of over £180m.

Scottish football may not be losing any MORE because of Rangers, although they probably are, but Scottish football is losing money hand over fist and logical thought says that it cannot continue. But this is football so it probably will.

[Kaiser1962]

Interest charged on the loan in the year ended 31 July 2011 was £5k and the holding company also charged rent of £24k for the ticket office and earned external interest of £9k, but that will be lost in 2011-2012 because virtually all the cash has been transferred to the club as an interest-free inter-company balance. There have never been any salaries paid out of the holding company as far as I can see and it made a loss of £72k for the year ended 31 July 2011. Brought forward losses are just under £2m and the book NAV is £1.38m.

Rods 10% is hardly going to keep him in the style to which he has become accustomed then. :cb


Edit; who will be left to pick up the tab for Holdings losses ?

Edit 2; is the bit in bold the £1.25m that Holdings put into the FC at the end of season before last?

[Beefster]

And if results do improve is there any guarantee that fans will return anyway?

It all depends on how risk averse those running the club are (although I'm not sure that that's too much of a mystery). If results improve dramatically, there's a fair chance that ST sales will be maintained/improved. However, if they continue in a similar vein then it's an absolute nap that ST sales will fall next season - it's unlikely that they'll have a cup final and Sevco drama to drive sales again.

[IWasThere2016]

Interest charged on the loan in the year ended 31 July 2011 was £5k and the holding company also charged rent of £24k for the ticket office and earned external interest of £9k, but that will be lost in 2011-2012 because virtually all the cash has been transferred to the club as an interest-free inter-company balance. There have never been any salaries paid out of the holding company as far as I can see and it made a loss of £72k for the year ended 31 July 2011. Brought forward losses are just under £2m and the book NAV is £1.38m.

Cheers Cav.

Mikey - when the accounts are out for HFC and Holding Co can these be archived on here?

[Mikey]

Mikey - when the accounts are out for HFC and Holding Co can these be archived on here?

They have been for a while now. Check The Vault for the last few years............

http://www.hibs.net/forumdisplay.php?37-hibs-net-Vault

[Hibbylad86]

Interest charged on the loan in the year ended 31 July 2011 was £5k and the holding company also charged rent of £24k for the ticket office and earned external interest of £9k, but that will be lost in 2011-2012 because virtually all the cash has been transferred to the club as an interest-free inter-company balance. There have never been any salaries paid out of the holding company as far as I can see and it made a loss of £72k for the year ended 31 July 2011. Brought forward losses are just under £2m and the book NAV is £1.38m.

Cav, I am more than likely being thick here but is brought forward loses were just under 2m and the net asset value is 1.38m does that not make the holding company insolvent?

any ideas what the external interest is?

[Caversham Green]

Rods 10% is hardly going to keep him in the style to which he has become accustomed then. :cb


Edit; who will be left to pick up the tab for Holdings losses ?

Edit 2; is the bit in bold the £1.25m that Holdings put into the FC at the end of season before last?

Second question first - yes, that's the £1.25m that was owed at the end of the 2010-2011 season. It's almost certainly connected to the building of the East Stand and is a loan in all but name.

As for who picks up the losses, there's still enough asset cover to avoid talk of insolvency, so the losses just represent a reduction in the value of the shareholders' investment. That would be offset if they sell the club and make a profit (the club is valued at £4.1m in the holding company's books, so selling for any more than that would represent a profit) but until that happens the shareholders are effectively financing the losses.

As for Rod's 10%, I've mentioned before that I think they may be a sort of management share designed to block the sale of the club in the event of STF's death or incapacity and if Rod leaves the club he would have to surrender them to his successor. Right now the shares are worth zip because they can't be sold and don't carry a dividend. They might achieve a value if the club (or the ticket office) is sold at a profit.

[Mikey]

As for Rod's 10%, I've mentioned before that I think they may be a sort of management share designed to block the sale of the club in the event of STF's death or incapacity and if Rod leaves the club he would have to surrender them to his successor. Right now the shares are worth zip because they can't be sold and don't carry a dividend. They might achieve a value if the club (or the ticket office) is sold at a profit.

Does that mean that the shares aren't actually Rod's personal property and if STF sells up Rod wouldn't get 10% of the sale?

[Caversham Green]

Cav, I am more than likely being thick here but is brought forward loses were just under 2m and the net asset value is 1.38m does that not make the holding company insolvent?

any ideas what the external interest is?

No, the £1.38m is net of the £2m losses - Share capital (which represents the initial investment in the club) is £3.35m and the losses are £1.97m.

The external interest was just earned on cash that was in the bank - I called it external to differentiate it from interest that was charged to the club.

[Caversham Green]

Does that mean that the shares aren't actually Rod's personal property and if STF sells up Rod wouldn't get 10% of the sale?

It's speculation on my part, but I suspect there would be a shareholder's agreement in place to deal with any profit - either it would revert to STF (or his dependents) or to the benefit of the club.

I have to stress I could be 100% wrong here, but it makes sense to me and I've seen something similar done with other companies I've dealt with.

[ahibby]

I believe that Rod Petrie was once one of the highest paid directors in the SPL. To be fair to him, when performances crowds and revenue dropped it appears he decided lower and eventually forgo entirely his wage.

I just think the poor fellow is out of his depth when it comes to managing the football side of things. He got hugely fortunate with Mowbray and the 'Golden Generation', and deserves some credit for getting good sums of money for the family silver. IMHO he has since shown little understanding of what 'football' people are required to run a club when the conveyor belt of youth - inevitably - dries up. I.e, strong but controlled man manager types who know a good player when they see one, and can win their respect.

I think it's fair to say that Rod didn't have a football background. Is it not the case though that Scott Lindsay was once on Kilmarnock FCs books (as a player)? Rod was in the background for a while carrying out management tasks until such time as he felt able to take over the negotiating of contracts etc, and then he moved up. He has held a couple of positions at the club and he probably knows as much about the business side of football as anyone in the game now. The golden era of talented youngsters was indeed good fortune for Rod but I wonder who it was that brought in the youth development team and Donald Park, who like him or not was/is able to impart highest level skills. If it's Scott Lindsay that is responsible for the direction of the football side of things then there's a clue. I don't think we have had a coach, like Donald Park for a long time, he even managed to get decent results while caretaker, unlike Billy Brown and Tommy Craig.

[IWasThere2016]

They have been for a while now. Check The Vault for the last few years............

http://www.hibs.net/forumdisplay.php?37-hibs-net-Vault

Cheers M - it was Holding Co that was of more interest but I'll get these.


Second question first - yes, that's the £1.25m that was owed at the end of the 2010-2011 season. It's almost certainly connected to the building of the East Stand and is a loan in all but name.

As for who picks up the losses, there's still enough asset cover to avoid talk of insolvency, so the losses just represent a reduction in the value of the shareholders' investment. That would be offset if they sell the club and make a profit (the club is valued at £4.1m in the holding company's books, so selling for any more than that would represent a profit) but until that happens the shareholders are effectively financing the losses.

As for Rod's 10%, I've mentioned before that I think they may be a sort of management share designed to block the sale of the club in the event of STF's death or incapacity and if Rod leaves the club he would have to surrender them to his successor. Right now the shares are worth zip because they can't be sold and don't carry a dividend. They might achieve a value if the club (or the ticket office) is sold at a profit.

I have it in my mind that RP's 10% is equity - created on the set-up of Holding Co. - a form of "golden hello" from STF's cash investment. But maybe not.

[ahibby]

You have just worked it out. Mr Petrie has agreed to defer wages now to realise his 10% at a later date. The question all Hibs fans should be asking the ultimate owner, Sir Tom, is what is the timeline for the exit strategy ?? On the basis that Mr Petrie owns 10% there is no way that he will resign prematurely. If ever there was evidence that our club is being mismanaged and has lost the focus which of running a successful business and hence creating a winning team. This is it.
It is time for the support to put some real pressure on Sir Tom and get these succession questions answered.
I feel sorry for Pat Fenlon for arriving at Hibernian Football Club at such a time of disorganisation. Mr Petrie, needs to be made to realise that he is the problem.

The time to put money in to the club is surely when it is doing well and more cash would definitely improve things, no? I mean looking at the gradual decline of the football team over the past four years would you give the football people at the club a million of your pounds to spend? We have a bigger budget than DUFC, St J and Motherwell and can't use it as well as they use theirs. I don't think that money would help at this point, from what we have seen in recent years it would only be wasted. We first need to see that the people running the club can be as successful as say Dundee Utd and if they can then consider whether investment would take us to another level. i don't think it would at the moment.

[IWasThere2016]

The time to put money in to the club is surely when it is doing well and more cash would definitely improve things, no? I mean looking at the gradual decline of the football team over the past four years would you give the football people at the club a million of your pounds to spend? We have a bigger budget than DUFC, St J and Motherwell and can't use it as well as they use theirs. I don't think that money would help at this point, from what we have seen in recent years it would only be wasted. We first need to see that the people running the club can be as successful as say Dundee Utd and if they can then consider whether investment would take us to another level. i don't think it would at the moment.

So you are expecting PF to improve things will the same or less (16 players out and 5/6 in)?

[ahibby]

So you are expecting PF to improve things will the same or less (16 players out and 5/6 in)?

No, I beleive we still have money to spend in this window. I expect people like Scott Lindsay and PF and staff to walk if they can't improve things on a bigger budget than the Dundee Utds, St Johnstones and Motherwells. Don't you?

[Caversham Green]

Cheers M - it was Holding Co that was of more interest but I'll get these.



I have it in my mind that RP's 10% is equity - created on the set-up of Holding Co. - a form of "golden hello" from STF's cash investment. But maybe not.

My understanding was that Rod acquired his shares some time after the holding co was set up - 1997 rings a bell for some reason. The 'management' aspect would still hold good in your scenario though, and it makes sense that he would have to surrender the shares if he left the club. The truth may well lie somewhere between your view and mine, but the shares remain of little value uless the club is sold. They are undoubtedly equity shares though, the protection aspect wouldn't work any other way.

[DevonLoch]

Cheers M - it was Holding Co that was of more interest but I'll get these.



I have it in my mind that RP's 10% is equity - created on the set-up of Holding Co. - a form of "golden hello" from STF's cash investment. But maybe not.

Accounts for HFC and HFC Holdings for last four or five years here:


https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B94cve6hT-VbemFXYVdGVnk2NHc/edit

[Captain Trips]

No, I beleive we still have money to spend in this window. I expect people like Scott Lindsay and PF and staff to walk if they can't improve things on a bigger budget than the Dundee Utds, St Johnstones and Motherwells. Don't you?

Do you not think RP and co have had more than enough time by now? This is IMo another season that is going to be wasted with this regime of football failure.

[Hibbylad86]

Have Hibs not been de-facto up for sale since STF took over anyway? I am sure he has said publicly he would be willing to sell to the right person?I assume then that no one has approached him to purchase the club over the past 5-10 years.

The question being why would anyone want to buy Hibs? You would need at least £4m to buy out STF and possibly more if he is looking to realise a profit. You would need to pump at least a million into the club a season for it just to breakeven on its current wage structure/investment.

Then again if you could attract c12000-14000 season book holders at say an average of 250 a book(students, kids etc) over time (say 1-3 seasons) you would have £3-3.5 million a season in guaranteed funds. No major investment needed in stadium or training centre so the infrastructre is there.

Anyone got 8 million spare kicking around? :greengrin

[Famous5forever]

Do you not think RP and co have had more than enough time by now? This is IMo another season that is going to be wasted with this regime of football failure.

We just continue to go round and round in a circle repeating the same mistakes year after year RP And Co are one trick ponies and there only trick has been proven not to work.

[ahibby]

Do you not think RP and co have had more than enough time by now? This is IMo another season that is going to be wasted with this regime of football failure.

To keep it short I think that the and co you mention have had enough time but Rod needs to stay on a bit longer, until he finds a suitable replacement to take over from him. I don't think he has that person at the club yet so Scott Lindsay could be let go, imo.

[IWasThere2016]

No, I beleive we still have money to spend in this window. I expect people like Scott Lindsay and PF and staff to walk if they can't improve things on a bigger budget than the Dundee Utds, St Johnstones and Motherwells. Don't you?

Yup - with RP in tow also.


My understanding was that Rod acquired his shares some time after the holding co was set up - 1997 rings a bell for some reason. The 'management' aspect would still hold good in your scenario though, and it makes sense that he would have to surrender the shares if he left the club. The truth may well lie somewhere between your view and mine, but the shares remain of little value uless the club is sold. They are undoubtedly equity shares though, the protection aspect wouldn't work any other way.

:aok:


Accounts for HFC and HFC Holdings for last four or five years here:

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B94cve6hT-VbemFXYVdGVnk2NHc/edit

Cheers Jock

[IWasThere2016]

Accounts for HFC and HFC Holdings for last four or five years here:

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B94cve6hT-VbemFXYVdGVnk2NHc/edit

Intersting that Holding Co's admin expenses include a £50k consultancy to a co. owned by STF (Maidencraig Investments Ltd) .. I wonder if RP is a director/employee of this co?

[hibiedude]

The petrie lovers on here will love this.
Petrie gtf or invest

:top marks

[IWasThere2016]

Intersting that Holding Co's admin expenses include a £50k consultancy to a co. owned by STF (Maidencraig Investments Ltd) .. I wonder if RP is a director/employee of this co?

Just checked .. RP joined MIL on 27 January 2012 :hmmm:

[hibiedude]

Eh?

While I agree with your OP, I'm not going to start wetting my bed tonight because we lost our first game...at last check, the transfer window was still open?

My beds been soaking for the last 3 years...due to watching this crap....pmsl

[Hibbylad86]

Just checked .. RP joined MIL on 27 January 2012 :hmmm:


I wonder if Rod is indeed still getting 'paid' then? Unless someone from MIL is advising Hibs on a consultancy basis. Does MIL list number of employees?

[IWasThere2016]

I wonder if Rod is indeed still getting 'paid' then? Unless someone from MIL is advising Hibs on a consultancy basis. Does MIL list number of employees?

Haven't looked - would probably need to order the accounts. Could be (HFC) Holding Co --> MIL --> RMP ..

Plenty ways to skin a cat :cb

[DevonLoch]

Intersting that Holding Co's admin expenses include a £50k consultancy to a co. owned by STF (Maidencraig Investments Ltd) .. I wonder if RP is a director/employee of this co?


Not a forensic accounts expert but I spotted that and wondered the same thing. While I dont doubt the Tache's commitment to Hibs, I don't think his benevolence extends to working (and taking all the crap that we throw at him) for nothing. I would think he is being recompensed through other channels. Hopefully the commitment last year to greater transparency in the financials will clear up these things (and any more!)

[Hibbylad86]

Haven't looked - would probably need to order the accounts. Could be (HFC) Holding Co --> MIL --> RMP ..

Plenty ways to skin a cat :cb

With Rodders your no joking. Surely he wouldnt be that daft though?

I wonder if there has been an admin charge has constantly appeared in the accounts in past years. I wouldnt even know where to look in a set of accounts.

[Famous5forever]

I wonder if Rod is indeed still getting 'paid' then? Unless someone from MIL is advising Hibs on a consultancy basis. Does MIL list number of employees?

I Have been suspicious of Petrie working for free since he made that call at the AGM My initial thoughts were he would take dividends but i am more inclined to guess he draws expenses and gets paid as a consultant.
No evidence to back this up though its only guess work.
The bottom line is whether he gets paid or not he has made a pigs ear of things.

[Lucius Apuleius]

I Have been suspicious of Petrie working for free since he made that call at the AGM My initial thoughts were he would take dividends but i am more inclined to guess he draws expenses and gets paid as a consultant.
No evidence to back this up though its only guess work.
The bottom line is whether he gets paid or not he has made a pigs ear of things.

:tub4:

[IWasThere2016]

Not a forensic accounts expert but I spotted that and wondered the same thing. While I dont doubt the Tache's commitment to Hibs, I don't think his benevolence extends to working (and taking all the crap that we throw at him) for nothing. I would think he is being recompensed through other channels. Hopefully the commitment last year to greater transparency in the financials will clear up these things (and any more!)


I Have been suspicious of Petrie working for free since he made that call at the AGM My initial thoughts were he would take dividends but i am more inclined to guess he draws expenses and gets paid as a consultant.
No evidence to back this up though its only guess work.
The bottom line is whether he gets paid or not he has made a pigs ear of things.

:agree:

[DevonLoch]

Added Maidencraig Investments No1 2011 (there's a Maidencraig Investments 2 & 3 as well with lots of intercompany dealings!) below:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B94cve6hT-VbaWxfLVlhcjVEdlk/edit

Easter Road valued at £18.5m in July 2011 (with a mortgage of £7m) and Training Centre at £5.5m......

[matty_f]

:agree:


Just speculation Columbo, look forward to seeing your evidence that there's something untowards going on. Making the implications is just sh**-stirring IMHO.

[Andy74]

Haven't looked - would probably need to order the accounts. Could be (HFC) Holding Co --> MIL --> RMP ..

Plenty ways to skin a cat :cb

A bit ironic that you're more bothered about the accounts than the football eh?

[marinello59]

A bit ironic that you're more bothered about the accounts than the football eh?

:greengrin

[Caversham Green]

Intersting that Holding Co's admin expenses include a £50k consultancy to a co. owned by STF (Maidencraig Investments Ltd) .. I wonder if RP is a director/employee of this co?


Just checked .. RP joined MIL on 27 January 2012 :hmmm:


I wonder if Rod is indeed still getting 'paid' then? Unless someone from MIL is advising Hibs on a consultancy basis. Does MIL list number of employees?



Not a forensic accounts expert but I spotted that and wondered the same thing. While I dont doubt the Tache's commitment to Hibs, I don't think his benevolence extends to working (and taking all the crap that we throw at him) for nothing. I would think he is being recompensed through other channels. Hopefully the commitment last year to greater transparency in the financials will clear up these things (and any more!)


With Rodders your no joking. Surely he wouldnt be that daft though?

I wonder if there has been an admin charge has constantly appeared in the accounts in past years. I wouldnt even know where to look in a set of accounts.

It's worth pointing out that if Petrie is getting paid through Maidencraig the money is not coming out of the club. If he was being paid on a consultancy basis it would be reported in the related parties note in the club's accounts.



I Have been suspicious of Petrie working for free since he made that call at the AGM My initial thoughts were he would take dividends but i am more inclined to guess he draws expenses and gets paid as a consultant.
No evidence to back this up though its only guess work.
The bottom line is whether he gets paid or not he has made a pigs ear of things.

RP is not a shareholder of the club, so he couldn't take a dividend, if he was being paid as a consultant it would be reported in the club's accounts, if he's drawing expenses it's because he has incurred those expenses. There's plenty evidence available and it all points to him not being paid.


Added Maidencraig Investments No1 2011 (there's a Maidencraig Investments 2 & 3 as well with lots of intercompany dealings!) below:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B94cve6hT-VbaWxfLVlhcjVEdlk/edit

Easter Road valued at £18.5m in July 2011 (with a mortgage of £7m) and Training Centre at £5.5m......

That's the ultimate parent company of the group and those are group accounts - the fact that they're virtually a replica of the club's accounts shows that the other group companies aren't trading. It's interesting that there are cash movements between the various companies though - and also that RP has been appointed a director. That suggests there are major developments in the pipeline - maybe an exit strategy for both STF and RP?

[Famous5forever]

It's worth pointing out that if Petrie is getting paid through Maidencraig the money is not coming out of the club. If he was being paid on a consultancy basis it would be reported in the related parties note in the club's accounts.




RP is not a shareholder of the club, so he couldn't take a dividend, if he was being paid as a consultant it would be reported in the club's accounts, if he's drawing expenses it's because he has incurred those expenses. There's plenty evidence available and it all points to him not being paid.



That's the ultimate parent company of the group and those are group accounts - the fact that they're virtually a replica of the club's accounts shows that the other group companies aren't trading. It's interesting that there are cash movements between the various companies though - and also that RP has been appointed a director. That suggests there are major developments in the pipeline - maybe an exit strategy for both STF and RP?

So unless Perie is some kind of genius at hiding payments to him :confused: then it looks like he is working for nought:aok: as i previously stated whether he is being paid or not he has made and is still making a James Hunt Of it.
Perhaps if he was to get paid he would show more interest and sort the mess he has made.

[Caversham Green]

So unless Perie is some kind of genius at hiding payments to him :confused: then it looks like he is working for nought:aok: as i previously stated whether he is being paid or not he has made and is still making a James Hunt Of it.
Perhaps if he was to get paid he would show more interest and sort the mess he has made.

I think there's an obsession with blaming Petrie for all the club's ills. He's now only the chairman and that's really just a figurehead position, which is why he's now (probably) unpaid - as are most other SPL chairmen. If he's really doing all the work some people appear to believe then the other directors are being negligent because they are just as responsible for the running of the club as he is. If he's doing it all for nothing then he's a fool.

That's the whole point of having a board of directors, particluarly so when it's a professional board like Hibs have. Simply blaming Petrie lets the others off the hook.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Have Hibs not been de-facto up for sale since STF took over anyway? I am sure he has said publicly he would be willing to sell to the right person?I assume then that no one has approached him to purchase the club over the past 5-10 years.

The question being why would anyone want to buy Hibs? You would need at least £4m to buy out STF and possibly more if he is looking to realise a profit. You would need to pump at least a million into the club a season for it just to breakeven on its current wage structure/investment.

Then again if you could attract c12000-14000 season book holders at say an average of 250 a book(students, kids etc) over time (say 1-3 seasons) you would have £3-3.5 million a season in guaranteed funds. No major investment needed in stadium or training centre so the infrastructre is there.

Anyone got 8 million spare kicking around? :greengrin

True as far as I am aware.

But then my car is de facto up for sale. But if I was serious about it I would have an advert in the paper and stick a wee sign in the back window.

Sir Tom Farmer is at a crossroads as far as his ownership of Hibs is concerned as far as I can see. He either becomes a proper football club owner and starts to take an active role in financing and getting finance into the playing side of the club, or he makes a proper and concerted effort to find a buyer for it.

STF will always be a legend at Easter Road .... Probably right up there with the original founders of the club. But as we have seen on the management side of this club legend status doesnt make you immune from the reality of the business of professional football as Eddie Turnbull, Pat Stanton and latterly Frank Sauzee will testify.

But, if he does decide to actually put some money into the playing side it isnt a certainty that he would lose that money anyway .. there is a slim chance that financing better quality players may even have good results and he would get his money back and more.

But one things for sure ..... Its time for STF to put up or sell up .... a few years ago criticism of STF would have been unthinkable to a lot of Hibs supporters, but I for one sense that things have changed and IMO thats no bad thing.

[Kaiser1962]

But, if he does decide to actually put some money into the playing side it isnt a certainty that he would lose that money anyway .. there is a slim chance that financing better quality players may even have good results and he would get his money back and more.

.

While nothing is certain in this world, other than death, i think sinking money into an SPL team expecting a return is up there.

[CropleyWasGod]

While nothing is certain in this world, other than death, i think sinking money into an SPL team expecting a return is up there.

The cliche is "if you want to make a small fortune out of football, start off with a large one."

Unless, of course, your name is Fergus McCann. :cb

[lord bunberry]

True as far as I am aware.

But then my car is de facto up for sale. But if I was serious about it I would have an advert in the paper and stick a wee sign in the back window.

Sir Tom Farmer is at a crossroads as far as his ownership of Hibs is concerned as far as I can see. He either becomes a proper football club owner and starts to take an active role in financing and getting finance into the playing side of the club, or he makes a proper and concerted effort to find a buyer for it.

STF will always be a legend at Easter Road .... Probably right up there with the original founders of the club. But as we have seen on the management side of this club legend status doesnt make you immune from the reality of the business of professional football as Eddie Turnbull, Pat Stanton and latterly Frank Sauzee will testify.

But, if he does decide to actually put some money into the playing side it isnt a certainty that he would lose that money anyway .. there is a slim chance that financing better quality players may even have good results and he would get his money back and more.

But one things for sure ..... Its time for STF to put up or sell up .... a few years ago criticism of STF would have been unthinkable to a lot of Hibs supporters, but I for one sense that things have changed and IMO thats no bad thing.

Has the car got plenty left on the mot

[Saorsa]

I think there's an obsession with blaming Petrie for all the club's ills. He's now only the chairman and that's really just a figurehead position, which is why he's now (probably) unpaid - as are most other SPL chairmen. If he's really doing all the work some people appear to believe then the other directors are being negligent because they are just as responsible for the running of the club as he is. If he's doing it all for nothing then he's a fool.

That's the whole point of having a board of directors, particluarly so when it's a professional board like Hibs have. Simply blaming Petrie lets the others off the hook.Well he can go and take his lapdogs with him, I blame them all but anybody who thinks he isnae at the helm steering the course this club is and has been following is kidding themselves on IMO

[Kaiser1962]

The cliche is "if you want to make a small fortune out of football, start off with a large one."

Unless, of course, your name is Fergus McCann. :cb

He's the only one I can think of.

Charles Green, if he runs Newhun correctly (given their market advantage over all their competitors bar Celtic) could be another.

Football, however, is littered with the names of normally sane, successful and wealthy men who have been driven to distraction trying to do in football what they have achieved so successfully in other business' and failed, sometimes spectacularly.

[IWasThere2016]

Just speculation Columbo, look forward to seeing your evidence that there's something untowards going on. Making the implications is just sh**-stirring IMHO.

My stirring of the **** - or your broon nosing - we're baith covered in broon stuff :wink:


A bit ironic that you're more bothered about the accounts than the football eh?

Aye - should have taken the books to Tanna instead of watching another abortion from the Hibs - which I hold yer man responsible 100% for. Ever decreasing circles whilst RP is at ER. If you disagree please enlighten us to when RP will turn the ship around?!? We've been waiting 5 years for the rot to stop .. do we need more patience/transitiion etc ???


It's worth pointing out that if Petrie is getting paid through Maidencraig the money is not coming out of the club. If he was being paid on a consultancy basis it would be reported in the related parties note in the club's accounts.


Nobody said the funds were from the club, and re the bold bit not necessarily if it went through a 3rd party (MIL) and presented via Holding Co.

[matty_f]

My stirring of the **** - or your broon nosing - we're baith covered in broon stuff :wink:



Aye - should have taken the books to Tanna instead of watching another abortion from the Hibs - which I hold yer man responsible 100% for. Ever decreasing circles whilst RP is at ER. If you disagree please enlighten us to when RP will turn the ship around?!? We've been waiting 5 years for the rot to stop .. do we need more patience/transitiion etc ???



Nobody said the funds were from the club, and re the bold bit not necessarily if it went through a 3rd party (MIL) and presented via Holding Co.

Where did I brown nose? :dunno:

[NAE NOOKIE]

While nothing is certain in this world, other than death, i think sinking money into an SPL team expecting a return is up there.

True .... but you have to look at the potential. Hibs have about 3 to 5 thousand missing fans based on our crowds in the middle of the 00s. Is STF chucked in a couple of million and these folk came back and the club won a few things he would have a decent chance.

Its all about potential income ..... at ER given where were starting from its possible. Were not talking about investing 10 million here, just 2 or 3.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Has the car got plenty left on the mot

Passed yesterday .... 4 new tyres now too ........ :greengrin

Think I'll hold on to it.

[Caversham Green]

Nobody said the funds were from the club, and re the bold bit not necessarily if it went through a 3rd party (MIL) and presented via Holding Co.

On the contrary, Famous5forever was suggesting exactly that. And if Petrie was paid by MIL/holding company it is of no concern to Hibernian Football Club - why on earth would they pay money across six months before he was even appointed anyway - and all for fifty grand?

What really gets my goat is not the singling out of Petrie but the desperate attempts by some to catch him and STF 'at it'. The idea of anyone making a fortune out of any Scottish football club (I'm categorising Sevco as British and Celtc as Irish here) is laughable. More so is the concept of someone like Tom Farmer waiting twenty-odd years to operate some sort of sting that would bag him chickenfeed in his terms. There is absolutely no evidence that either of them is at it, indeed much of the available evidence strongly suggests the opposite, so we have people making stuff up or dropping ridiculous little hints that something is up. My problem with that is that it ultimately damages the club, and the fact that it's coming from Hibs fans is frankly disgusting - leave that crap to the yams.

No-one is denying that the club is in a bad place just now and the board must take a great deal of the responsibility for that. By all means attack the board - or even Petrie personally, I don't really care - for that, but inventing other sticks to beat them with does neither the club nor your argument any favours.

[Kaiser1962]

True .... but you have to look at the potential. Hibs have about 3 to 5 thousand missing fans based on our crowds in the middle of the 00s. Is STF chucked in a couple of million and these folk came back and the club won a few things he would have a decent chance.

Its all about potential income ..... at ER given where were starting from its possible. Were not talking about investing 10 million here, just 2 or 3.


Again I can only give you facts regarding how ourselves, and others, have fared when pusuing that strategy and its not went well. Three league cups in sixty years would suggest that success is equally difficult to come by.

And no, it dosent mean we should stop trying but we need to get back to the basics as thats where Hibs success has come from in the past, its what we are/have been good at. Hibs, the football team, are not in a good place but we need to work it through and give PF the time he needs to put it right. We keep trying for a quick fix and, in general, they dont work, not long term anyway.

[Kaiser1962]

On the contrary, Famous5forever was suggesting exactly that. And if Petrie was paid by MIL/holding company it is of no concern to Hibernian Football Club - why on earth would they pay money across six months before he was even appointed anyway - and all for fifty grand?

What really gets my goat is not the singling out of Petrie but the desperate attempts by some to catch him and STF 'at it'. The idea of anyone making a fortune out of any Scottish football club (I'm categorising Sevco as British and Celtc as Irish here) is laughable. More so is the concept of someone like Tom Farmer waiting twenty-odd years to operate some sort of sting that would bag him chickenfeed in his terms. There is absolutely no evidence that either of them is at it, indeed much of the available evidence strongly suggests the opposite, so we have people making stuff up or dropping ridiculous little hints that something is up. My problem with that is that it ultimately damages the club, and the fact that it's coming from Hibs fans is frankly disgusting - leave that crap to the yams.

No-one is denying that the club is in a bad place just now and the board must take a great deal of the responsibility for that. By all means attack the board - or even Petrie personally, I don't really care - for that, but inventing other sticks to beat them with does neither the club nor your argument any favours.


You fairly clatter when coming down of that fence cav :greengrin

I am pretty sure that if STF was trying to slip £50k to Petrie, and avoid the Hibs.net inquisition in the process, he could quite comfortably do it. As RP is also a director/secretary in a myriad of STF companies there are many avenues open to him.

[Ray_]

On the contrary, Famous5forever was suggesting exactly that. And if Petrie was paid by MIL/holding company it is of no concern to Hibernian Football Club - why on earth would they pay money across six months before he was even appointed anyway - and all for fifty grand?

What really gets my goat is not the singling out of Petrie but the desperate attempts by some to catch him and STF 'at it'. The idea of anyone making a fortune out of any Scottish football club (I'm categorising Sevco as British and Celtc as Irish here) is laughable. More so is the concept of someone like Tom Farmer waiting twenty-odd years to operate some sort of sting that would bag him chickenfeed in his terms. There is absolutely no evidence that either of them is at it, indeed much of the available evidence strongly suggests the opposite, so we have people making stuff up or dropping ridiculous little hints that something is up. My problem with that is that it ultimately damages the club, and the fact that it's coming from Hibs fans is frankly disgusting - leave that crap to the yams.

No-one is denying that the club is in a bad place just now and the board must take a great deal of the responsibility for that. By all means attack the board - or even Petrie personally, I don't really care - for that, but inventing other sticks to beat them with does neither the club nor your argument any favours.

I totally agree with you CG, as much as I think Rod Petrie is a disaster and Tom Farmer is culpable for employing him and standing by him so steadfastly, I think it is crazy to believe that money has been drained from the club for their own financial benefit. Costing the club plenty by incompetence is a different matter altogether.

[matty_f]

On the contrary, Famous5forever was suggesting exactly that. And if Petrie was paid by MIL/holding company it is of no concern to Hibernian Football Club - why on earth would they pay money across six months before he was even appointed anyway - and all for fifty grand?

What really gets my goat is not the singling out of Petrie but the desperate attempts by some to catch him and STF 'at it'. The idea of anyone making a fortune out of any Scottish football club (I'm categorising Sevco as British and Celtc as Irish here) is laughable. More so is the concept of someone like Tom Farmer waiting twenty-odd years to operate some sort of sting that would bag him chickenfeed in his terms. There is absolutely no evidence that either of them is at it, indeed much of the available evidence strongly suggests the opposite, so we have people making stuff up or dropping ridiculous little hints that something is up. My problem with that is that it ultimately damages the club, and the fact that it's coming from Hibs fans is frankly disgusting - leave that crap to the yams.

No-one is denying that the club is in a bad place just now and the board must take a great deal of the responsibility for that. By all means attack the board - or even Petrie personally, I don't really care - for that, but inventing other sticks to beat them with does neither the club nor your argument any favours.


Could not have put it better myself. I agree with every word.

[Mikey]

On the contrary, Famous5forever was suggesting exactly that. And if Petrie was paid by MIL/holding company it is of no concern to Hibernian Football Club - why on earth would they pay money across six months before he was even appointed anyway - and all for fifty grand?

What really gets my goat is not the singling out of Petrie but the desperate attempts by some to catch him and STF 'at it'. The idea of anyone making a fortune out of any Scottish football club (I'm categorising Sevco as British and Celtc as Irish here) is laughable. More so is the concept of someone like Tom Farmer waiting twenty-odd years to operate some sort of sting that would bag him chickenfeed in his terms. There is absolutely no evidence that either of them is at it, indeed much of the available evidence strongly suggests the opposite, so we have people making stuff up or dropping ridiculous little hints that something is up. My problem with that is that it ultimately damages the club, and the fact that it's coming from Hibs fans is frankly disgusting - leave that crap to the yams.

No-one is denying that the club is in a bad place just now and the board must take a great deal of the responsibility for that. By all means attack the board - or even Petrie personally, I don't really care - for that, but inventing other sticks to beat them with does neither the club nor your argument any favours.

:top marks

[Beefster]

Again I can only give you facts regarding how ourselves, and others, have fared when pusuing that strategy and its not went well. Three league cups in sixty years would suggest that success is equally difficult to come by.

And no, it dosent mean we should stop trying but we need to get back to the basics as thats where Hibs success has come from in the past, its what we are/have been good at. Hibs, the football team, are not in a good place but we need to work it through and give PF the time he needs to put it right. We keep trying for a quick fix and, in general, they dont work, not long term anyway.

Without getting into the wider debate that you're having, success for your average SPL club isn't just measured in trophies. Some of my favourite seasons have been ones in which we finished 3rd/4th or at least attempted to play entertaining football. We won hee-haw under McLeish and Mowbray but I don't think that anyone would argue that they were not successful spells.

[blackpoolhibs]

On the contrary, Famous5forever was suggesting exactly that. And if Petrie was paid by MIL/holding company it is of no concern to Hibernian Football Club - why on earth would they pay money across six months before he was even appointed anyway - and all for fifty grand?

What really gets my goat is not the singling out of Petrie but the desperate attempts by some to catch him and STF 'at it'. The idea of anyone making a fortune out of any Scottish football club (I'm categorising Sevco as British and Celtc as Irish here) is laughable. More so is the concept of someone like Tom Farmer waiting twenty-odd years to operate some sort of sting that would bag him chickenfeed in his terms. There is absolutely no evidence that either of them is at it, indeed much of the available evidence strongly suggests the opposite, so we have people making stuff up or dropping ridiculous little hints that something is up. My problem with that is that it ultimately damages the club, and the fact that it's coming from Hibs fans is frankly disgusting - leave that crap to the yams.

No-one is denying that the club is in a bad place just now and the board must take a great deal of the responsibility for that. By all means attack the board - or even Petrie personally, I don't really care - for that, but inventing other sticks to beat them with does neither the club nor your argument any favours.

:agree: To suggest he's working like mad vlad is just silly, and not really his style. If Petrie was getting paid, STF would just pay him, he does not need to hide anything?

[Famous5forever]

I think there's an obsession with blaming Petrie for all the club's ills. He's now only the chairman and that's really just a figurehead position, which is why he's now (probably) unpaid - as are most other SPL chairmen. If he's really doing all the work some people appear to believe then the other directors are being negligent because they are just as responsible for the running of the club as he is. If he's doing it all for nothing then he's a fool.

That's the whole point of having a board of directors, particluarly so when it's a professional board like Hibs have. Simply blaming Petrie lets the others off the hook.

The bottom line is somebody has to be responsible for the mess we are in unless we are a ship just sailing along with no one at the helm, and it appears it is not Petrie the mistakes up until the last AGM Were Caused by Petrie and to be fair to him he put his hands up and apologised for the mess he had made.
The speculation and consenious of opinion is Petrie has taken a back seat since then so we cant blame him for things that have went wrong after the last AGM.

[HFC 0-7]

While nothing is certain in this world, other than death, i think sinking money into an SPL team expecting a return is up there.

I agree, but not spending enough on a squad when it really needs it expecting a return on the pitch is equally up there. We are losing money all the time, i suppose its down to how we lose that money. We could either hope for the best and go through the season spending the budget when most know the scale of rebuild requires more, which, has been resulting in a loss at the end of the year. Or, spend the money that would be spent on losses at the start which could help the squad, bring new ST sales and preserve future revenue.

Everyone understands the scale of the re build, what I dont understand is why the club expect this can be done using the existing budget and no extra investment when this has been proven not to work in the last few seasons.

[IWasThere2016]

Just speculation Columbo, look forward to seeing your evidence that there's something untowards going on. Making the implications is just sh**-stirring IMHO.

Was Columbo ever wrang? :wink: :greengrin


I think there's an obsession with blaming Petrie for all the club's ills. He's now only the chairman and that's really just a figurehead position, which is why he's now (probably) unpaid - as are most other SPL chairmen. If he's really doing all the work some people appear to believe then the other directors are being negligent because they are just as responsible for the running of the club as he is. If he's doing it all for nothing then he's a fool.

That's the whole point of having a board of directors, particluarly so when it's a professional board like Hibs have. Simply blaming Petrie lets the others off the hook.

As ChEx and Chairman for so long - and the one in control of the club for long spells therein - RP is the one most accountable IMHO (and clearly in the minds of many more fans also).


On the contrary, Famous5forever was suggesting exactly that. And if Petrie was paid by MIL/holding company it is of no concern to Hibernian Football Club - why on earth would they pay money across six months before he was even appointed anyway - and all for fifty grand?

What really gets my goat is not the singling out of Petrie but the desperate attempts by some to catch him and STF 'at it'. The idea of anyone making a fortune out of any Scottish football club (I'm categorising Sevco as British and Celtc as Irish here) is laughable. More so is the concept of someone like Tom Farmer waiting twenty-odd years to operate some sort of sting that would bag him chickenfeed in his terms. There is absolutely no evidence that either of them is at it, indeed much of the available evidence strongly suggests the opposite, so we have people making stuff up or dropping ridiculous little hints that something is up. My problem with that is that it ultimately damages the club, and the fact that it's coming from Hibs fans is frankly disgusting - leave that crap to the yams.

No-one is denying that the club is in a bad place just now and the board must take a great deal of the responsibility for that. By all means attack the board - or even Petrie personally, I don't really care - for that, but inventing other sticks to beat them with does neither the club nor your argument any favours.

Fairy nuff - I was quoted but I didnt say any payment was coming directly from the club.


[/B]

I totally agree with you CG, as much as I think Rod Petrie is a disaster and Tom Farmer is culpable for employing him and standing by him so steadfastly, I think it is crazy to believe that money has been drained from the club for their own financial benefit. Costing the club plenty by incompetence is a different matter altogether.

:agree:

[Caversham Green]

The bottom line is somebody has to be responsible for the mess we are in unless we are a ship just sailing along with no one at the helm, and it appears it is not Petrie the mistakes up until the last AGM Were Caused by Petrie and to be fair to him he put his hands up and apologised for the mess he had made.
The speculation and consenious of opinion is Petrie has taken a back seat since then so we cant blame him for things that have went wrong after the last AGM.

My point really is that Petrie is and was only one member of a board that has been very well paid in recent years. The two possibilities of the way that board operates as far as I can see are:

Petrie dominates the board and all the major decisions are his. If this is the case then the rest of the board really aren't pulling their weight and (some) are being paid for nothing. Maybe if they were to get the same criticism that Petrie gets they would grow a pair and start thinking for themselves.
The board is democratic and Petrie is only one voice. This is how it should be IMO, but that means that the decisions are made collectively and chucking all the crap at one member lets all the others off the hook. That means they'll continue to hide behind Petrie's skirts for as long as they'll get away with it.

My view is that a professional board like Hibs have should give us an advantage over the clubs with unpaid directors, but that clearly isn't the case right now and whether the current board can turn it round or not is certainly debatable but IMO any complaints should be looking beyond a single personality.

[Famous5forever]

My point really is that Petrie is and was only one member of a board that has been very well paid in recent years. The two possibilities of the way that board operates as far as I can see are:

Petrie dominates the board and all the major decisions are his. If this is the case then the rest of the board really aren't pulling their weight and (some) are being paid for nothing. Maybe if they were to get the same criticism that Petrie gets they would grow a pair and start thinking for themselves.
The board is democratic and Petrie is only one voice. This is how it should be IMO, but that means that the decisions are made collectively and chucking all the crap at one member lets all the others off the hook. That means they'll continue to hide behind Petrie's skirts for as long as they'll get away with it.
My view is that a professional board like Hibs have should give us an advantage over the clubs with unpaid directors, but that clearly isn't the case right now and whether the current board can turn it round or not is certainly debatable but IMO any complaints should be looking beyond a single personality.

What is confusing is we know that the day before each of the last 2 AGMs Petrie announced the Manager had been sacked Petrie is the one who faces the music but the decisions to hire and fire Managers must be a Democratic vote as you sugest in your 2nd option.

Petrie said he would have no input in the hiring of Managers before Paddy was appointed however if Paddy was to go it would again be Petrie who would face the music, So i agree with you others are hiding behind Petries shadow and getting of Lightly and its unfair that Petrie is getting the majority of the flack for decisions not made exclusivley by him.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Lets get it sorted then any wizz kids able to set up e petiton lets get as many sigs as poss
action is needed

Surely an open letter, combined with death threats to the owner are what does the trick.


:hmmm:

[DarlingtonHibee]

On the contrary, Famous5forever was suggesting exactly that. And if Petrie was paid by MIL/holding company it is of no concern to Hibernian Football Club - why on earth would they pay money across six months before he was even appointed anyway - and all for fifty grand?

What really gets my goat is not the singling out of Petrie but the desperate attempts by some to catch him and STF 'at it'. The idea of anyone making a fortune out of any Scottish football club (I'm categorising Sevco as British and Celtc as Irish here) is laughable. More so is the concept of someone like Tom Farmer waiting twenty-odd years to operate some sort of sting that would bag him chickenfeed in his terms. There is absolutely no evidence that either of them is at it, indeed much of the available evidence strongly suggests the opposite, so we have people making stuff up or dropping ridiculous little hints that something is up. My problem with that is that it ultimately damages the club, and the fact that it's coming from Hibs fans is frankly disgusting - leave that crap to the yams.

No-one is denying that the club is in a bad place just now and the board must take a great deal of the responsibility for that. By all means attack the board - or even Petrie personally, I don't really care - for that, but inventing other sticks to beat them with does neither the club nor your argument any favours.

As always - :top marks

[HibsMax]

While nothing is certain in this world, other than death, i think sinking money into an SPL team expecting a return is up there.

I suppose the questions are :
1. How much money would Hibs need?
2. Can STF comfortably afford the loss (worst case scenario)?

Maybe he doesn't need to make a profit....but that would mean he has a tighter connection with the club and from what I understand, he doesn't.

If we wanted him to plough in 10 million pounds then I can see him getting totally hosed. But 1 or 2 million? If spent wisely I could see him making back a chunk of that over a couple of years. The problem is then that we would need to continue to spend money to keep the ship afloat and unless Hibs fans show their support through ticket sales then we could fall just as quickly as we rise.

To me, buying marquee players is nice but unless you can hold onto them they are just a stopgap. Fans continually say that it's performances that will bring them back. So Hibs pay for some good players and get the performances up. Fans come back. The player's contract expires and leaves for a better deal elsewhere. If enough players do that then, as we know, performances will slide and so will attendances and we're back where we started.

I think this issue is more complicated than we think it is.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Without getting into the wider debate that you're having, success for your average SPL club isn't just measured in trophies. Some of my favourite seasons have been ones in which we finished 3rd/4th or at least attempted to play entertaining football. We won hee-haw under McLeish and Mowbray but I don't think that anyone would argue that they were not successful spells.

eg Motherwell have been successful over the last 4-5 years (qualified for Europe almost every year) but have won nothing since 1991.

[HFC 0-7]

I suppose the questions are :
1. How much money would Hibs need?
2. Can STF comfortably afford the loss (worst case scenario)?

Maybe he doesn't need to make a profit....but that would mean he has a tighter connection with the club and from what I understand, he doesn't.

If we wanted him to plough in 10 million pounds then I can see him getting totally hosed. But 1 or 2 million? If spent wisely I could see him making back a chunk of that over a couple of years. The problem is then that we would need to continue to spend money to keep the ship afloat and unless Hibs fans show their support through ticket sales then we could fall just as quickly as we rise.

To me, buying marquee players is nice but unless you can hold onto them they are just a stopgap. Fans continually say that it's performances that will bring them back. So Hibs pay for some good players and get the performances up. Fans come back. The player's contract expires and leaves for a better deal elsewhere. If enough players do that then, as we know, performances will slide and so will attendances and we're back where we started.

I think this issue is more complicated than we think it is.

We need to get to a point where the fans will want to come back. Marque signings would probably be the quickest way to do that. We have been told now that infrastructure is in place money will be spent on the squad, ie, wont have to sell players to fund building of stands etc.

We are at a point now where we will be losing money regardless added to that we have a dwindling revenue stream because if we have another poor season fans will not come back. I think its easier to cut costs to a winning team that needs tweaking than cutting costs on a losing team that needs a complete overhaul. another bad season would see the second scenario. We all know fans would turn up if the team is good, just look back through previous seasons.

[Kaiser1962]

Without getting into the wider debate that you're having, success for your average SPL club isn't just measured in trophies. Some of my favourite seasons have been ones in which we finished 3rd/4th or at least attempted to play entertaining football. We won hee-haw under McLeish and Mowbray but I don't think that anyone would argue that they were not successful spells.

I agree with you Mr.B so please dont think i dont. The two examples you cite were very different in how they came into being and probably underline the difficulties a club like Hibs face. McLeish was, by Hibs recent criteria, relatively successful but he spent(was allowed to spend) sums of money the club could not afford and when the gates/income did not increase by enough to compensate, the club's future, at least of remaining at ER if not its existence as it was in 1991, was in doubt. In fact if Farmer was not there coming through that period would undoubtedly have been tougher than it was. Mcleish, then appearing to be a success then moved on/was poached by a club who could spend the funds required, and renumerate the man himself accordingly. I hold no grudge against the man for that.

Fast forward a bit and enter Mowbray to take forward a team of youngsters fashioned by Williamson. Personally I think Williamson's time at ER was underrated in the overall scheme of things, sure he did and said some silly things, but underrated nonetheless. Mowbray brough in a number of players immediately and they made an impact with the youngsters already here and payed football with a swagger on considerably less of a budget than that which was available to McLeish. Again Mowbray, and his team, attracted covettous eyes from elsewhere and took those opportunities to financially secure themselves and the club, wary of how close they came in the McLeish era, did not go there again. Again I have no truck with the players and managers taking those opportunities offered to them, which Hibs could not. I expected that Mowbray would end up at Celtic and admit to being surprised how badly it went for him there.

The history books will show that Collins won a trophy, a fact often cited on here, which makes him a more successful manager than either Mowbray or McLeish, but was he a better one? A case of "show us yer medals"


eg Motherwell have been successful over the last 4-5 years (qualified for Europe almost every year) but have won nothing since 1991.

Motherwell, as you are aware, went bust in 2004 and it is only due to the benevolence of John Boyle that they exist today. Had they too been lumbered with the debts from their seasons of largesse it is doubtful they would be in the position they currently are.

[Beefster]

I agree with you Mr.B so please dont think i dont. The two examples you cite were very different in how they came into being and probably underline the difficulties a club like Hibs face. McLeish was, by Hibs recent criteria, relatively successful but he spent(was allowed to spend) sums of money the club could not afford and when the gates/income did not increase by enough to compensate, the club's future, at least of remaining at ER if not its existence as it was in 1991, was in doubt. In fact if Farmer was not there coming through that period would undoubtedly have been tougher than it was. Mcleish, then appearing to be a success then moved on/was poached by a club who could spend the funds required, and renumerate the man himself accordingly. I hold no grudge against the man for that.

Fast forward a bit and enter Mowbray to take forward a team of youngsters fashioned by Williamson. Personally I think Williamson's time at ER was underrated in the overall scheme of things, sure he did and said some silly things, but underrated nonetheless. Mowbray brough in a number of players immediately and they made an impact with the youngsters already here and payed football with a swagger on considerably less of a budget than that which was available to McLeish. Again Mowbray, and his team, attracted covettous eyes from elsewhere and took those opportunities to financially secure themselves and the club, wary of how close they came in the McLeish era, did not go there again. Again I have no truck with the players and managers taking those opportunities offered to them, which Hibs could not. I expected that Mowbray would end up at Celtic and admit to being surprised how badly it went for him there.

The history books will show that Collins won a trophy, a fact often cited on here, which makes him a more successful manager than either Mowbray or McLeish, but was he a better one? A case of "show us yer medals"



Motherwell, as you are aware, went bust in 2004 and it is only due to the benevolence of John Boyle that they exist today. Had they too been lumbered with the debts from their seasons of largesse it is doubtful they would be in the position they currently are.

You're absolutely correct about the circumstances surrounding McLeish's/Mowbray's success and I don't disagree with anything you say, even the point about Williamson being better for Hibs than he gets credit for. I think that the reasons for success raise a point about Hibs in the last 15 years though - the only two real spells of success were as a result of overspending (which itself was a result of the ultimate failure and had repercussions that linger to this day) and a complete fluke of timing (which will be very difficult, if not impossible, to repeat without investment beyond what we seem prepared to make).

Other clubs manage to have success the old fashioned way - recruiting young players/cheap player etc etc. Hibs seem incapable of doing it that way. There must be underlying reasons that stop us, whether it's our scouting, financial set-up, the way we treat potential recruits or plenty of other stuff. There never seems to be any attempt by the club to analyse the issue (judging by what we see) and change things accordingly though, beyond change the manager.

[The Green Goblin]

I'd go for the chuckle brothers, at least we'd get the odd laugh with them.

Indeed. Might even improve the team's passing too... "to me to you to me to you".

[jimmy-adjovi]

As depressing as it is to say, the two teams mentioned above would be impossible to match in the current climate.it is also apparent that we continue to suffer from supporters expectations of hibs teams attaining this level of football that was seen under mcleish and mowbray. Both a match for each other as we benefited from the work of John Park (who produced the team Mowbray had) and from spending outwith our means (as McLeish was allowed to bring top class players). Now that Celtic have our chief scout and Petrie has tightened the purse strings, we are entering an era of wheeling and dealing and more often than not being outbid and settling for second rate players.

Unless there is radical change from the board down Hibs will continue to chop and change as they face relegation year on year.

[NAE NOOKIE]

You can go too far overspending on players and nobody is suggesting that Hibs bankrupt the club by doing so. But we do need to look at spending a bit more than we do because at the moment what we bring in doesnt usually work ... you get what you pay for as they say.

But on the other hand .... its fine bringing in youth players and that, but how are they supposed to develope when the guys who they are supposed to learn from are mediocre.

This idea that you can be a success purely by bringing your own players through is myth anyway .... you need a balance. Good transfers in mixed with 2 or 3 home grown players.

But for goodness sake ..... make the bought in players half decent or it wont work.

[The Falcon]

You can go too far overspending on players and nobody is suggesting that Hibs bankrupt the club by doing so. But we do need to look at spending a bit more than we do because at the moment what we bring in doesnt usually work ... you get what you pay for as they say.

But on the other hand .... its fine bringing in youth players and that, but how are they supposed to develope when the guys who they are supposed to learn from are mediocre.

This idea that you can be a success purely by bringing your own players through is myth anyway .... you need a balance. Good transfers in mixed with 2 or 3 home grown players.

But for goodness sake ..... make the bought in players half decent or it wont work.


I think it's the one's that have cost us most of our budget that have failed to deliver. I am thinking De Graff, Hart, O'Brien et al and there was no indication that any of them wouldnt work out.

I would be happier giving Smith, Booth, Stanton, Handling and Caldwell more game time this season.

[Ray_]

I think it's the one's that have cost us most of our budget that have failed to deliver. I am thinking De Graff, Hart, O'Brien et al and there was no indication that any of them wouldnt work out.

I would be happier giving Smith, Booth, Stanton, Handling and Caldwell more game time this season.

I'm with you on that one, however, we desperately need a midfield, particularly in the wide area's.

[macca70]

Have had a season ticket for over 10 years, i've stood up and been counted for long enough and I'll be choosing to watch the game on the telly on Sunday.

There is no value for money, the cost of going to a game is way overpriced. Maybe my view would be different if we were challenging up the top end of the league but when we have a home record like our recent 1 and as Bobby Williamson said, if you want entertained, go to the cinema. Or In my case at the moment I would rather spend my 2 days off at the weekend watching and playing golf.

1 of the other factors is that I want to watch football at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon, our 1st 2 games of the season have been Sunday lunchtimes. 1 of the big things for me about going to the games is the social aspect of it, meeting your mates/old man, going for a few beers to 4 in hand, Hibs club etc staying out for a few after the game on a Saturday. That side of the Match day experience has been completely lost due to KO times being any time but 3pm on a Saturday. Look at our last 5 ffixtures of last season, did we even have 1 game at 3 on a Saturday?

Also, I can't believe the mediocracy that the happy clappers are quite willing to settle for, we have had good players come and go, managers come and go but the 1 common denominator that has been constant throughout is Petrie and Farmer. There is something underlying and rotten at the core of our club, IMO we've tried changing playing staff, we've changed managers now it's time for a change of leadership at the very top of our club. I doubt there would be any set of fans anywhere in Britain that have a club with the infrastructure that we do that would settle for what our happy clappers are. There would have been protests and demands for the chairman to be booted out, long before now.

Folk saying we are in transition, we've been in transition since Mowbray left, how long ago was that. We've had guys who have proven they are good quality by having an impact at other clubs but it hasn't worked out for them at Hibs, why? What is it at our club that is making the perform way below there potential.

We were known for our youth and ability to bring through youngsters, albeit for them to be sold to the old firm but we brought them on and they got there chance in the 1st team. With the current 'manager merry go round' the youth is not getting a chance, the managers coming in need to hit the ground running and don't have time or the faith or know enough about the youngsters trying to breakthrough, they would rather try bring in guys they know from there past or journeymen to try steady the ship.

We have a very talented group of youngsters keen to impress, they all did impress when given there chance in pre season but now the season season starts they get chucked on when we're 2/3 down, it's hardly an ideal environment for them to be breaking into the 1st team. Give some of them a chance from the start, there's a young lad Smith that plays left back, give him a couple of starts otherwise he's not going to get the 1st team experience and he'll be wasted. Also, handling and Stanton, give them the chance to start, handling was given the chance at the end of last season out on loan, he seemed to score a fair few, nows the time to give him a start, can't do any worse than who played last season or against united.

The club talk about and I keep reading on here about these 'think tank's'/q&a sessions, there must have been billions of viable ideas that fans have submitted but what have we seen implemented or change for the better?

The club has the infrastructure; east mains, cracking stadium, talented youth desperate for a 1st team start, large fan base so where is it all going wrong at our club? We have so much potential but another season like last and the attendances will soon be below 5k.

In terms of this season, Our Board now have to 'stand up and be counted' they have to be Pro-Active rather than Re-active before its too late and we're in another relegation battle heading for the 1st division.

[LeighLoyal]

I agree with you mate, but Petrie has sacked four managers in four years so Fenlon has to put the best team out he can or he'll be next. I would agree with you on the youth's though, better to get beat with your own players than a bunch of loans and mercs. The kick off situation is a disgrace but we are ruled by TV companies whims.

[macca70]

I agree with you mate, but Petrie has sacked four managers in four years so Fenlon has to put the best team out he can or he'll be next. I would agree with you on the youth's though, better to get beat with your own players than a bunch of loans and mercs. The kick off situation is a disgrace but we are ruled by TV companies whims.

So is it not Petrie that I accountable for these poor performances.

So who agrees the tv deals, fair enough it generates cash but at what expense? An Empty stadium?

[Hibstrooper]

So is it not Petrie that I accountable for these poor performances.

So who agrees the tv deals, fair enough it generates cash but at what expense? An Empty stadium?

Fenlon is last chance saloon for Petrie and Lindsay.

I'd consider myself to be a happy clapper if you want to label it however if there is no progress soon and Fenlon bites the bullet then it's game over for them as far as I'm concerned and I honestly don't think the Hibs fans would allow them to continue.

They'll know this which is why I wouldn't be surprised to see Fenlon get some extra backing towards the end of the window.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Fenlon is last chance saloon for Petrie and Lindsay.

I'd consider myself to be a happy clapper if you want to label it however if there is no progress soon and Fenlon bites the bullet then it's game over for them as far as I'm concerned and I honestly don't think the Hibs fans would allow them to continue.

They'll know this which is why I wouldn't be surprised to see Fenlon get some extra backing towards the end of the window.

Agree.

I must be a happy clapper then also, as I choose to support the team:rolleyes:. I am unhappy with the way the Club has been / is being run, I have been for years but I wont stop attending. I would be totally lost not following Hibs. I do however make my feelings known to the Custodians at every opportunity.

[Dalkeith]

by the end of august we could have lost 12points from our first 4 games why wait, season for most teams started a week ago

[edwards]

I agree with you mate, but Petrie has sacked four managers in four years so Fenlon has to put the best team out he can or he'll be next. I would agree with you on the youth's though, better to get beat with your own players than a bunch of loans and mercs. The kick off situation is a disgrace but we are ruled by TV companies whims.

Hit the nail right on the head falkirk and while we keep shipping managers out and in like the tide we will always be in transition, how many more [there is something rotten at this club] threads do we really need FFS. Fenlon went out and got a midfild player and an experianced defeder yes I wanted a forward but hopefully we will have one before the window closes and with a bit of luck another half decent midfild player then Fenlon can wield the axe again.
Replacing all the players we released has been a lot harder than Fenlon thought. Plus the tax dogers have been taking players on board they normaly wouldn't touch with a barge pole and may have ended up at ER. This also didn't help Fenlon.
You would think the hertz had a world cup winning team, they have lost a bit of quality as well but if your were to take tempelton and driver out their team they would be pretty basic.

[Baldy Foghorn]

by the end of august we could have lost 12points from our first 4 games why wait, season for most teams started a week ago

Or we could have won 9......

[blackpoolhibs]

I keep hearing every season that this club is rotten to the core, not the seasons we do well though? We change the manager, and then he changes the players. So much so that i think only Lewis Stevenson is still at the club from Mowbrays time.

Either the new managers are bringing in the wrong types of players, or is there someone else still there? Or maybe the club is not rotten to the core?

[Franck is God]

The kick off situation is a disgrace but we are ruled by TV companies whims.


Decisions are made by those who turn up, if enough fans bought season tickets in the summer then the clubs wouldn't have to bend over backwards to please SKY/ESPN. This is not a criticism to Hibs fans but to all SPL fans. Will also point out that very few top clubs around the world ever play at 3pm on a Saturday as they are also being televised but it doesn't seem to bother their fans and they still show up in big numbers.

I will also say that if the kick off times are such a big deal then why when we actually do play on a Saturday at 3pm does it make no difference to the attendance at all, we may get a few more away fans travelling but I don't see a swell in the home fans numbers.

[Forza Fred]

While I share the OP's frustrations, the reality is that there is not a queue of millionaires lining up to invest in our club, who would replace Sir Tom.

What surprises me though, is that having spoken to him, and being aware of his purported after the cup final comments that 'things must change'...I would have thought that PRIDE would have made him step in and provide the money for investment in players..as he did once before when he provided the funds for Keith Wright to join HIbs.

I really don't see how we get out of this Catch 22 situation, where it appears that mediocrity, or to be honest, less than mediocrity, is seen as acceptable to Petrie and Farmer.

And in regard/agreeance to the Op's comments about happy clappers...as someone who followed Turnbull's Tornadoes, I just can't accept the depths we have plummeted to, and used to argue with more recent followers about what was acceptable''.

Never would I argue that merely making top six is ácceptable'for Hibs..

[Dalkeith]

Or we could have won 9......

i'm ill so not meant to :faf:too much but you are correct, myself i see it more between 0-6

[J-C]

I keep hearing every season that this club is rotten to the core, not the seasons we do well though? We change the manager, and then he changes the players. So much so that i think only Lewis Stevenson is still at the club from Mowbrays time.

Either the new managers are bringing in the wrong types of players, or is there someone else still there? Or maybe the club is not rotten to the core?

Although we had top 6 under Mixu and Yogi, there has been a slow drop in standards at ER, we moaned under both these managers and things have got worse since then.

Is it just managers, or could it be something deeper rooted that's the problem, I know one thing, it has to change one way or another or this once proud club will be just another struggling in the lower half for many, many years to come.

[Baldy Foghorn]

i'm ill so not meant to :faf:too much but you are correct, myself i see it more between 0-6

Fair enough, I prefer to look at it slightly more positively. If we were to think we would lose our first 4 games then what would be the point in going? Hope springs eternal.......

[Franck is God]

by the end of august we could have lost 12points from our first 4 games why wait, season for most teams started a week ago

Last week we took a bit of a beating by the only settled side left in the SPL but who knows what position they will be in by the end of August.

At the moment Celtic aren't signing anyone until they know whether they are playing Champions league football or not, they also have Premiership teams circling around Hooper, Wanyama and Ki and if they get decent money offered for them they will be sold and I can see both Russell and Mackay-Steven ending up at Parkhead as replacements.

We are still building a side and it might take longer than a few friendlies and 1 league match, signing McPake, Clancy, Williams, Cairney, Deegan & Maybury on permanent deals is a good start, Griffiths on loan too but you can see that being permanent in the future as well. This has been one of the most awkward transfer windows that the club has ever had to go through, not only was there a big job to do with players leaving and arriving but having to do it on a budget that couldn't be fixed before the TV deal was signed. There are lots of players out there but they are holding off signing for anyone not just Hibs and it may be another couple of weeks before more signings are made.

[Kaiser1962]

I agree with you mate, but Petrie has sacked four managers in four years so Fenlon has to put the best team out he can or he'll be next. I would agree with you on the youth's though, better to get beat with your own players than a bunch of loans and mercs. The kick off situation is a disgrace but we are ruled by TV companies whims.

I understand that Petrie/Hibs voted against the current TV deal.

[southsider]

we are in dire need of an experianced CF and we let beatie go to st. j.......omg petrie gtf

[Kaiser1962]

I'm with you on that one, however, we desperately need a midfield, particularly in the wide area's.


Lets get the ball first and I am hopeful that Deegan will add much needed bite to that area as reports from down south appear to suggest this.


I would also add Horribine to the list of youngsters deserving of an opportunity.

[PatHead]

we are in dire need of an experianced CF and we let beatie go to st. j.......omg petrie gtf

As I mentioned on another thread. Whilst Beattie is undoubtedly a good player he was effectively out for Hearts between the semi and final of the Cup last season. Where would we be if we signed him and he got injured straight away? Hopefully we are negotiating with someone else and we shall have a decent CF over the next week or so.

It is worrying going into a derby with Zalukas as our main goal threat!

[Mikey]

It is worrying going into a derby with Zalukas as our main goal threat!

:greengrin

[Lucius Apuleius]

we are in dire need of an experianced cf and we let beatie go to st. J.......omg petrie gtf

lol, omg, wtf. Gtf.

[blackpoolhibs]

lol, omg, wtf. Gtf.

:faf: pmsl

[Lucius Apuleius]

:faf: pmsl

IMHO of course.

LTYF

[AlbertK86]

by the end of august we could have lost 12points from our first 4 games why wait, season for most teams started a week ago

Cos it's tradition now for Hibs not to have a settled team in place for the season starting !!!

And too many are happy to accept it cos the window is still open ..... Well that's worked the last few years ....

And for those to say PF is happy to wait to get targets - bollocks ... Guaranteed he wanted his team in place before the start

OP - 100% spot on

[Famous5forever]

Cos it's tradition now for Hibs not to have a settled team in place for the season starting !!!

And too many are happy to accept it cos the window is still open ..... Well that's worked the last few years ....

And for those to say PF is happy to wait to get targets - bollocks ... Guaranteed he wanted his team in place before the start

OP - 100% spot on

The panic loanees will arrive on the last day of the window nothing so far has given me confidence that this will change how many are brought in will all depend on our results over the next few weeks. If things go like last weeks game then there will be quite a few panic loanees brought in, If however we pick up and start to put points on the table and there are genuine signs of improvement then there may not be any loanees brought in.
The time between now and when the window closes will mark out how our season goes fingers crossed for tomorrow.:flag: