Why Do We Tolerate Year Upon Year Of Abject Failure?

[Mikey]

It's not just been since the final whistle blew on March 18th 2007, it's been going on for much longer than that. Farmer and Petrie have been at Hibs for years and years yet nothing has changed. Countless opportunities have been missed and yet they're still at the helm.

So tell me, given that those two are still at the top of the tree, just what have the board critics achieved over the years? It's time they showed a bit of imagination. A bit of ambition. Try something new. Simply repeating the same criticism day after day clearly doesn't work.

I say we cast them aside and get a new set of board critics. Get in people who know what they're doing. Offer reduced prices for them because everyone knows that if you charge half the price you'll get double the critics. The current set of board critics couldn't organise a piss up in a sold off car park. If you gave them a pitchfork and a flaming torch they would end up with singed eyebrows and a prick up their bottom.

We need proper protests. Car boot sales, refusing to clean behind your ears, not finishing your tea. Those are actions that get real results. Does anyone know Nick Buckles phone number?

It's time for change. Vive la revolution.

[BEEJ]

We need proper protests. Car boot sales, refusing to clean behind your ears, not finishing your tea. Those are actions that get real results. Does anyone know Nick Buckles phone number?

It's time for change. Vive la revolution.
For starters, we need much more use of this smilie on here >>> :protest:

That'll tell 'em.

[BroxburnHibee]

It's not just been since the final whistle blew on March 18th 2007, it's been going on for much longer than that. Farmer and Petrie have been at Hibs for years and years yet nothing has changed. Countless opportunities have been missed and yet they're still at the helm.

So tell me, given that those two are still at the top of the tree, just what have the board critics achieved over the years? It's time they showed a bit of imagination. A bit of ambition. Try something new. Simply repeating the same criticism day after day clearly doesn't work.

I say we cast them aside and get a new set of board critics. Get in people who know what they're doing. Offer reduced prices for them because everyone knows that if you charge half the price you'll get double the critics. The current set of board critics couldn't organise a piss up in a sold off car park. If you gave them a pitchfork and a flaming torch they would end up with singed eyebrows and a prick up their bottom.

We need proper protests. Car boot sales, refusing to clean behind your ears, not finishing your tea. Those are actions that get real results. Does anyone know Nick Buckles phone number?

It's time for change. Vive la revolution.

:tee hee:

[BT58]

Everyone is entitled to criticise (or be criticised) its a human thing
Hibernian has been in a bad slump ( seen it through the many decades ive supported them),theres good days followed by many bad days,, many fans have had enough,, May 19th will be for ever to many, be the blackest day.
How many fans are now lost, not to be seen again??
However we dont need protests, we do need the board to look at their pricing,, many who i know have had enough,, jeez this recession is still going on!!!!!, many of us cannot afford a season ticket, does that make us a lesser fan ???
btw if someone wants to buy me a season ticket to put funds into PF s funds feel free
Cheers
Bt

[ian cruise]

For starters, we need much more use of this smilie on here >>> :protest:

That'll tell 'em.

:protest: Yaas, I do enjoy a wee placard me I do. Down with this sort of thing!

[Hibbyradge]

Petrie can't even get the right critics.

[down-the-slope]

We also need some consolidation of groups


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

[jonty]

Petrie can't even get the right critics.

STF should be investing his millions in new critics :protest:

[ian cruise]

For starters, we need much more use of this smilie on here >>> :protest:

That'll tell 'em.

:protest: Yaas, I do enjoy a wee placard me I do. Down with this sort of thing!

[Spike Mandela]

The board apologists and their commander in chief, Mikey gain in confidence with their recent successes. 3000 critics vanquished from the seaaon ticket roster. Only a few thousand more to go and they can claim the ultimate victory and carry Mr Petrie shoulder high along Princes St as Hibs claim the Ramsdens trophy runners up spot to Sevco yet again.:wink::greengrin

[Weir7]

It's not just been since the final whistle blew on March 18th 2007, it's been going on for much longer than that. Farmer and Petrie have been at Hibs for years and years yet nothing has changed. Countless opportunities have been missed and yet they're still at the helm.

So tell me, given that those two are still at the top of the tree, just what have the board critics achieved over the years? It's time they showed a bit of imagination. A bit of ambition. Try something new. Simply repeating the same criticism day after day clearly doesn't work.

I say we cast them aside and get a new set of board critics. Get in people who know what they're doing. Offer reduced prices for them because everyone knows that if you charge half the price you'll get double the critics. The current set of board critics couldn't organise a piss up in a sold off car park. If you gave them a pitchfork and a flaming torch they would end up with singed eyebrows and a prick up their bottom.

We need proper protests. Car boot sales, refusing to clean behind your ears, not finishing your tea. Those are actions that get real results. Does anyone know Nick Buckles phone number?

It's time for change. Vive la revolution.

Very sad. Nobody likes a show off. I'm sure rod and scott will let you sit on their knee at the next meeting and pat you on your head for being a good boy.

[Weir7]

The board apologists and their commander in chief, Mikey gain in confidence with their recent successes. 3000 critics vanquished from the seaaon ticket roster. Only a few thousand more to go and they can claim the ultimate victory and carry Mr Petrie shoulder high along Princes St as Hibs claim the Ramsdens trophy runners up spot to Sevco yet again.:wink::greengrin

Spot on. If rod or his apologist think that smart posts or begging articles are getting punters back to ER it shows how out of touch they are.

[Phil D. Rolls]

For starters, we need more local critics who are prepared to fight for the jersey. We have far too many on loan from other message boards and my feeling is that they are just not Hibs class. In addition we need to invest in a couple of high profile foreign critics that are prepared to come here and do a job. Even if they are not local.

[Phil D. Rolls]

We also need some consolidation of groups


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

That's right, just what has Petrie done for us?

[NAE NOOKIE]

You are bang on mate.

I remember the Mowbray era ... we found out then what a bunch of fair weather critics this club really has, they just melted away like snow in spring. Dont get me wrong .. there will always be the die hard critics who will criticise no matter what, but without more support even they will find it hard to keep going.

How can you keep going when folk deliberately buy season tickets and start turning up in numbers. The club did nothing to help in those days ... without a thought for the critics they put a team on the park who played entertaining football and won matches.

But ... the critics had a saviour.

Recognising just how bad things had become the board of HFC set out on a 5 year plan to do away with the outrage of good football. This was worked to perfection with the selling of all of the clubs best players and appointing a series of dud managers.

Thank goodness it worked ....... This club now has some of the best critics in Scottish football and their numbers have grown year on year throughout the 5 year plan. I understand the club will soon set aside a part of the East for them .... 'The whinging section' which will be totally empty every Saturday of course, as no self respecting critic would actually attend a match ... how can the critic section continue to grow if folk actually go to games .... that would be a kick in the teeth to our board who have worked so hard.

There is the seedy side of course:

I understand that our critics have began to forge ties with Ultra critics from England and Europe ...... The right wing and extremely violent criticism used by these hard core critics will soon be seen in Scotland ...... I'm led to believe that the feared 'Critic 22' from Germany dont even go to friendlies and stand outside stadiums calling folk who are going in "Good supporter" ... "Uber fans" and other shocking insults.

:confused:

[lord bunberry]

It's not just been since the final whistle blew on March 18th 2007, it's been going on for much longer than that. Farmer and Petrie have been at Hibs for years and years yet nothing has changed. Countless opportunities have been missed and yet they're still at the helm.

So tell me, given that those two are still at the top of the tree, just what have the board critics achieved over the years? It's time they showed a bit of imagination. A bit of ambition. Try something new. Simply repeating the same criticism day after day clearly doesn't work.

I say we cast them aside and get a new set of board critics. Get in people who know what they're doing. Offer reduced prices for them because everyone knows that if you charge half the price you'll get double the critics. The current set of board critics couldn't organise a piss up in a sold off car park. If you gave them a pitchfork and a flaming torch they would end up with singed eyebrows and a prick up their bottom.

We need proper protests. Car boot sales, refusing to clean behind your ears, not finishing your tea. Those are actions that get real results. Does anyone know Nick Buckles phone number?

It's time for change. Vive la revolution.


I wish we dint have to tolerate having to read this on every thread its getting tedious

[Phil D. Rolls]

You are bang on mate.

I remember the Mowbray era ... we found out then what a bunch of fair weather critics this club really has, they just melted away like snow in spring. Dont get me wrong .. there will always be the die hard critics who will criticise no matter what, but without more support even they will find it hard to keep going.

How can you keep going when folk deliberately buy season tickets and start turning up in numbers. The club did nothing to help in those days ... without a thought for the critics they put a team on the park who played entertaining football and won matches.

But ... the critics had a saviour.

Recognising just how bad things had become the board of HFC set out on a 5 year plan to do away with the outrage of good football. This was worked to perfection with the selling of all of the clubs best players and appointing a series of dud managers.

Thank goodness it worked ....... This club now has some of the best critics in Scottish football and their numbers have grown year on year throughout the 5 year plan. I understand the club will soon set aside a part of the East for them .... 'The whinging section' which will be totally empty every Saturday of course, as no self respecting critic would actually attend a match ... how can the critic section continue to grow if folk actually go to games .... that would be a kick in the teeth to our board who have worked so hard.

There is the seedy side of course:

I understand that our critics have began to forge ties with Ultra critics from England and Europe ...... The right wing and extremely violent criticism used by these hard core critics will soon be seen in Scotland ...... I'm led to believe that the feared 'Critic 22' from Germany dont even go to friendlies and stand outside stadiums calling folk who are going in "Good supporter" ... "Uber fans" and other shocking insults.

:confused:

:top marks You're right, Scottish Football is sleepwalking towards Armageddon. Just when things couldn't get any worse, those muppets in the SFL decided to allow Sevco into D3, in a fell swoop they have silenced many of the games foremost critics. We are now at the stage of looking to youngstes (some of whom are still at school) to do our criticising for us.

Of course we all know who is really behind it all, and it's for him to understand that shaving off that moustache will not be enough to save his bacon. We know where he lives.

Real critics don't do walking away.

[MrSmith]

You are bang on mate.

I remember the Mowbray era ... we found out then what a bunch of fair weather critics this club really has, they just melted away like snow in spring. Dont get me wrong .. there will always be the die hard critics who will criticise no matter what, but without more support even they will find it hard to keep going.

How can you keep going when folk deliberately buy season tickets and start turning up in numbers. The club did nothing to help in those days ... without a thought for the critics they put a team on the park who played entertaining football and won matches.

But ... the critics had a saviour.

Recognising just how bad things had become the board of HFC set out on a 5 year plan to do away with the outrage of good football. This was worked to perfection with the selling of all of the clubs best players and appointing a series of dud managers.

Thank goodness it worked ....... This club now has some of the best critics in Scottish football and their numbers have grown year on year throughout the 5 year plan. I understand the club will soon set aside a part of the East for them .... 'The whinging section' which will be totally empty every Saturday of course, as no self respecting critic would actually attend a match ... how can the critic section continue to grow if folk actually go to games .... that would be a kick in the teeth to our board who have worked so hard.

There is the seedy side of course:

I understand that our critics have began to forge ties with Ultra critics from England and Europe ...... The right wing and extremely violent criticism used by these hard core critics will soon be seen in Scotland ...... I'm led to believe that the feared 'Critic 22' from Germany dont even go to friendlies and stand outside stadiums calling folk who are going in "Good supporter" ... "Uber fans" and other shocking insults.

:confused:

Uber fan!

oops ...

[RIP]

Some of us are waking up to the real future facing Scottish football fans. We can either choose to be working supporters (who get the sleeves rolled up and get stuck in to work for their clubs) or disaffected customers embroiled in a permanent jaded world of protest, boycotts and messageboard doom and gloom against 'the bosses'. In the game rather than mere spectators of the game.

We choose the former - not because it's morally right nor supported by past events. We choose that course because as Hibs Supporters we are the only permanent guardians of this historic football club. Owners, chairmen, board members, managers will all come and go. We will always be here

This is OUR club and it's up to us to help secure it's future

[Baldy Foghorn]

It's not just been since the final whistle blew on March 18th 2007, it's been going on for much longer than that. Farmer and Petrie have been at Hibs for years and years yet nothing has changed. Countless opportunities have been missed and yet they're still at the helm.

So tell me, given that those two are still at the top of the tree, just what have the board critics achieved over the years? It's time they showed a bit of imagination. A bit of ambition. Try something new. Simply repeating the same criticism day after day clearly doesn't work.

I say we cast them aside and get a new set of board critics. Get in people who know what they're doing. Offer reduced prices for them because everyone knows that if you charge half the price you'll get double the critics. The current set of board critics couldn't organise a piss up in a sold off car park. If you gave them a pitchfork and a flaming torch they would end up with singed eyebrows and a prick up their bottom.

We need proper protests. Car boot sales, refusing to clean behind your ears, not finishing your tea. Those are actions that get real results. Does anyone know Nick Buckles phone number?

It's time for change. Vive la revolution.

This is obviously a wind up post, but if you are happy with the way our club has been run, and poor seasons after another, then bash on. I am not happy with at least the last two seasons, and have been quick to tell our Custodians that, I still go to every game, so I feel strongly enough to air my views. If that upsets any of our custodians then tough......

[Barney McGrew]

I wish we dint have to tolerate having to read this on every thread its getting tedious

It's no more tedious than the same people spouting the opposite view on every thread.

[Sumner]

Steady on here!! Let's not get carried away..

Apparently if you criticise you are not a true Hibee,
if you don't happy clap in the stands you are not helping
the team, and god forbid you name a player in a sentence
with the words "..you're p1$h" .. this hurts the player's
feelings and they shall not perform for.. ever more

As for having a go at the Tache? How very dare we...

[--------]

It's not just been since the final whistle blew on March 18th 2007, it's been going on for much longer than that. Farmer and Petrie have been at Hibs for years and years yet nothing has changed. Countless opportunities have been missed and yet they're still at the helm.

So tell me, given that those two are still at the top of the tree, just what have the board critics achieved over the years? It's time they showed a bit of imagination. A bit of ambition. Try something new. Simply repeating the same criticism day after day clearly doesn't work.

I say we cast them aside and get a new set of board critics. Get in people who know what they're doing. Offer reduced prices for them because everyone knows that if you charge half the price you'll get double the critics. The current set of board critics couldn't organise a piss up in a sold off car park. If you gave them a pitchfork and a flaming torch they would end up with singed eyebrows and a prick up their bottom.

We need proper protests. Car boot sales, refusing to clean behind your ears, not finishing your tea. Those are actions that get real results. Does anyone know Nick Buckles phone number?

It's time for change. Vive la revolution.



Next time I'm at ER I shall get a seat as close to the directors' box as possible, and THEN ...

... I shall scweam and scweam and scweam until I'm sick.


That'll do the twick. :dummytit:

[lEXO]

We arent bringing through the youth critics like we used to either. This is probably the worst thing for me. We used to be the best in scotland at that.
A sorry state of affairs.

[Hiber-nation]

It's not just been since the final whistle blew on March 18th 2007, it's been going on for much longer than that. Farmer and Petrie have been at Hibs for years and years yet nothing has changed. Countless opportunities have been missed and yet they're still at the helm.

So tell me, given that those two are still at the top of the tree, just what have the board critics achieved over the years? It's time they showed a bit of imagination. A bit of ambition. Try something new. Simply repeating the same criticism day after day clearly doesn't work.

I say we cast them aside and get a new set of board critics. Get in people who know what they're doing. Offer reduced prices for them because everyone knows that if you charge half the price you'll get double the critics. The current set of board critics couldn't organise a piss up in a sold off car park. If you gave them a pitchfork and a flaming torch they would end up with singed eyebrows and a prick up their bottom.

We need proper protests. Car boot sales, refusing to clean behind your ears, not finishing your tea. Those are actions that get real results. Does anyone know Nick Buckles phone number?

It's time for change. Vive la revolution.

Sorry Mikey, I'm not sure what the point of this is. Apart from generating even more antagonism between Hibs fans.

[Onion]

Steady on here!! Let's not get carried away..

Apparently if you criticise you are not a true Hibee,
if you don't happy clap in the stands you are not helping
the team, and god forbid you name a player in a sentence
with the words "..you're p1$h" .. this hurts the player's
feelings and they shall not perform for.. ever more

As for having a go at the Tache? How very dare we...

If that wasn't true that would be funny :cb.

[macca70]

It's not just been since the final whistle blew on March 18th 2007, it's been going on for much longer than that. Farmer and Petrie have been at Hibs for years and years yet nothing has changed. Countless opportunities have been missed and yet they're still at the helm.

So tell me, given that those two are still at the top of the tree, just what have the board critics achieved over the years? It's time they showed a bit of imagination. A bit of ambition. Try something new. Simply repeating the same criticism day after day clearly doesn't work.

I say we cast them aside and get a new set of board critics. Get in people who know what they're doing. Offer reduced prices for them because everyone knows that if you charge half the price you'll get double the critics. The current set of board critics couldn't organise a piss up in a sold off car park. If you gave them a pitchfork and a flaming torch they would end up with singed eyebrows and a prick up their bottom.

We need proper protests. Car boot sales, refusing to clean behind your ears, not finishing your tea. Those are actions that get real results. Does anyone know Nick Buckles phone number?

It's time for change. Vive la revolution.

What's with the sarcastic dig at other Hibs fans.

Another attempt to lick the boards backside.

These continuous posts from Mikey have become tiresome.

Maybe you should try generating some positive energy amongst the fans rather creating animosity.

The fans have stood up and been counted when it mattered, forked out for season tickets year after year but enough is enough. Some, like myself, will be picking and choosing there games this season and won't be renewing after over 10 years of having a season ticket so does that make me a lesser fan?

[hibbymac]

What's with the sarcastic dig at other Hibs fans.

Another attempt to lick the boards backside.

These continuous posts from Mikey have become tiresome.

Maybe you should try generating some positive energy amongst the fans rather creating animosity.

The fans have stood up and been counted when it mattered, forked out for season tickets year after year but enough is enough. Some, like myself, will be picking and choosing there games this season and won't be renewing after over 10 years of having a season ticket so does that make me a lesser fan?

Of course it does, unless you're in the gang, ... pfft, part timer.

[lord bunberry]

It's no more tedious than the same people spouting the opposite view on every thread.

Agreed I just think this is the wrong time for this debate

[Fergus52]

Sorry Mikey, I'm not sure what the point of this is. Apart from generating even more antagonism between Hibs fans.

Comedic value?

[jgl07]

This is obviously a wind up post, but if you are happy with the way our club has been run, and poor seasons after another, then bash on. I am not happy with at least the last two seasons, and have been quick to tell our Custodians that, I still go to every game, so I feel strongly enough to air my views. If that upsets any of our custodians then tough......

Yes indeed. Farmer and Petrie have fended off a string of mega rich would-be owners over the last 20 years.

Perhaps they should call up that nice Mr Kennedy to see if he is still interested?

[NAE NOOKIE]

For starters, we need more local critics who are prepared to fight for the jersey. We have far too many on loan from other message boards and my feeling is that they are just not Hibs class. In addition we need to invest in a couple of high profile foreign critics that are prepared to come here and do a job. Even if they are not local.Nah ... Foreign critics are all the same .... the criticism in other countries is Slower than Scottish criticism and tends to build up as it goes.

Anyway ... I'm fed up of foreign critics coming over here and then when they go home going on about how the standard of criticism isnt as good as other countries. This may be a wee country, but per head of population we have a larger percentage of critics than a lot of bigger countries and thats something to be proud of IMO.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Too many humour bypasses on here methinks.

[jonty]

Too many humour bypasses on here methinks.
:agree: If we can't laugh at ourselves, who can we laugh at.











Well, ok. There's the yams, OldCo, NewCo, SevCo. But apparently there are too many of those threads. :greengrin

[Horse]

In answer to the question of the OP I'll give you my answer: Because I am a Hibby!

I don't support Hibs because I expect to see a consistent winning team. I support Hibs because I was born a Hibby and will die a Hibby and that support is unconditional no matter how good or bad we are. For my lifetime and indeed for most of the lifetime of Hibs we have been treated to "abject failure", I'm pretty sure that every board in Hibs entire history has presided over a period that could be described as "abject failure". We have also had the all to rare occasion where we have had success but such triumphs are too few and far between for us to expect much more than abject failure. Like any fan I feel the need to moan about various things about Hibs but the reality of the situation is that only a board that can inject a vast amount of money into the squad is going to achieve anything other than abject failure with the odd achievement thrown in there. Given Hibs' turnover I doubt whether I or anyone else could deliver much more that Hibs' have delivered over recent seasons. The board have made poor appointments with managers of late (most of whom we were all happy enough with when appointed) but even with the best manager in the world our success would still be limited by our turnover.

Our best chance of achieving even modest success is by fans investing our hard earned cash in the club and wait patiently for a wee crumb of success, there is no magic wand. Changing the board but still keeping our current budget will have little positive impact on the club and could quite easily have a negative impact on it. The only way a change in the board would possibly ensure success is if there is a billionaire Hibby out there that is happy to blow a fortune on Hibs and I really don't think such a person exists.

Frustrating as it is, abject failure is something we've all had to suffer as Hibby's however to me Hibs are (or at least were) all about sticking together and getting behind the team through thick and thin. Times have been very tough of late and any Hibby has the right to moan and criticise, however I do believe that at this point in time every Hibby should attend as many games as possible and back the team for 90 mins every game, I think that would help our chances of avoiding abject failure more than thousands of us sitting at home/the pub moaning about how bad we are. Good attendances (for all teams) this season would also have the added benefit of making the likes of Trainor/Young/Doncaster/Regan look even more stupid (if that's possible). By all means moan and criticise but please don't abandon the club, it is our club and we are the ones who make it what it is. The bigger our paying support is means the bigger our chance of avoiding abject failure, that is the reality and it is up to the individual how they respond to that. I will always invest whatever I can reasonably afford each year because I am a Hibby and I have to play my part in keeping our wonderful tradition of abject failure/occasional fantastic glory going for future generations to enjoy!

[TornadoHibby]

This is obviously a wind up post, but if you are happy with the way our club has been run, and poor seasons after another, then bash on. I am not happy with at least the last two seasons, and have been quick to tell our Custodians that, I still go to every game, so I feel strongly enough to air my views. If that upsets any of our custodians then tough......

What he said.........! :agree:

[Mikey]

Too many humour bypasses on here methinks.

:agree:

[HibbyRod]

In answer to the question of the OP I'll give you my answer: Because I am a Hibby!

I don't support Hibs because I expect to see a consistent winning team. I support Hibs because I was born a Hibby and will die a Hibby and that support is unconditional no matter how good or bad we are. For my lifetime and indeed for most of the lifetime of Hibs we have been treated to "abject failure", I'm pretty sure that every board in Hibs entire history has presided over a period that could be described as "abject failure". We have also had the all to rare occasion where we have had success but such triumphs are too few and far between for us to expect much more than abject failure. Like any fan I feel the need to moan about various things about Hibs but the reality of the situation is that only a board that can inject a vast amount of money into the squad is going to achieve anything other than abject failure with the odd achievement thrown in there. Given Hibs' turnover I doubt whether I or anyone else could deliver much more that Hibs' have delivered over recent seasons. The board have made poor appointments with managers of late (most of whom we were all happy enough with when appointed) but even with the best manager in the world our success would still be limited by our turnover.

Our best chance of achieving even modest success is by fans investing our hard earned cash in the club and wait patiently for a wee crumb of success, there is no magic wand. Changing the board but still keeping our current budget will have little positive impact on the club and could quite easily have a negative impact on it. The only way a change in the board would possibly ensure success is if there is a billionaire Hibby out there that is happy to blow a fortune on Hibs and I really don't think such a person exists.

Frustrating as it is, abject failure is something we've all had to suffer as Hibby's however to me Hibs are (or at least were) all about sticking together and getting behind the team through thick and thin. Times have been very tough of late and any Hibby has the right to moan and criticise, however I do believe that at this point in time every Hibby should attend as many games as possible and back the team for 90 mins every game, I think that would help our chances of avoiding abject failure more than thousands of us sitting at home/the pub moaning about how bad we are. Good attendances (for all teams) this season would also have the added benefit of making the likes of Trainor/Young/Doncaster/Regan look even more stupid (if that's possible). By all means moan and criticise but please don't abandon the club, it is our club and we are the ones who make it what it is. The bigger our paying support is means the bigger our chance of avoiding abject failure, that is the reality and it is up to the individual how they respond to that. I will always invest whatever I can reasonably afford each year because I am a Hibby and I have to play my part in keeping our wonderful tradition of abject failure/occasional fantastic glory going for future generations to enjoy!

:applause: Great post equine fellow! :greengrin

[hibee_nation]

Since we built EM the critics have been flagging, what a waste of money. Get the critics spewing their guts up at Gullane sand dunes that will sort the lazy bassas oot. :grr:

[TornadoHibby]

In answer to the question of the OP I'll give you my answer: Because I am a Hibby!

I don't support Hibs because I expect to see a consistent winning team. I support Hibs because I was born a Hibby and will die a Hibby and that support is unconditional no matter how good or bad we are. For my lifetime and indeed for most of the lifetime of Hibs we have been treated to "abject failure", I'm pretty sure that every board in Hibs entire history has presided over a period that could be described as "abject failure". We have also had the all to rare occasion where we have had success but such triumphs are too few and far between for us to expect much more than abject failure. Like any fan I feel the need to moan about various things about Hibs but the reality of the situation is that only a board that can inject a vast amount of money into the squad is going to achieve anything other than abject failure with the odd achievement thrown in there. Given Hibs' turnover I doubt whether I or anyone else could deliver much more that Hibs' have delivered over recent seasons. The board have made poor appointments with managers of late (most of whom we were all happy enough with when appointed) but even with the best manager in the world our success would still be limited by our turnover.

Our best chance of achieving even modest success is by fans investing our hard earned cash in the club and wait patiently for a wee crumb of success, there is no magic wand. Changing the board but still keeping our current budget will have little positive impact on the club and could quite easily have a negative impact on it. The only way a change in the board would possibly ensure success is if there is a billionaire Hibby out there that is happy to blow a fortune on Hibs and I really don't think such a person exists.

Frustrating as it is, abject failure is something we've all had to suffer as Hibby's however to me Hibs are (or at least were) all about sticking together and getting behind the team through thick and thin. Times have been very tough of late and any Hibby has the right to moan and criticise, however I do believe that at this point in time every Hibby should attend as many games as possible and back the team for 90 mins every game, I think that would help our chances of avoiding abject failure more than thousands of us sitting at home/the pub moaning about how bad we are. Good attendances (for all teams) this season would also have the added benefit of making the likes of Trainor/Young/Doncaster/Regan look even more stupid (if that's possible). By all means moan and criticise but please don't abandon the club, it is our club and we are the ones who make it what it is. The bigger our paying support is means the bigger our chance of avoiding abject failure, that is the reality and it is up to the individual how they respond to that. I will always invest whatever I can reasonably afford each year because I am a Hibby and I have to play my part in keeping our wonderful tradition of abject failure/occasional fantastic glory going for future generations to enjoy!

We've been operating and living in a different world since late 2007 just in case you hadn't noticed and very probably will continue to be doing that for another few years yet according the the learned economic forecasters who purport to know more about what is happening Globally and locally in the economic sense thatn the rest of us!

As a result, the need to be more focused and appropriate in terms of product delivery content and quality is now, and will continue to be, much more acute for all businesses IMO. Many people faced with a poor quality product in any sector will chose not to buy it but to replace it with something else that they might enjoy more or indeed nothing at all!

That is the dilemna for Hibs and virtually every other business now and for the foreseeable future. Failure to deliver approriate and acceptable content and quality by way of product will lead to business decline at best and business failure at worst!

In my opinion of course.

[Horse]

We've been operating and living in a different world since late 2007 just in case you hadn't noticed and very probably will continue to be doing that for another few years yet according the the learned economic forecasters who purport to know more about what is happening Globally and locally in the economic sense thatn the rest of us!

As a result, the need to be more focused and appropriate in terms of product delivery content and quality is now, and will continue to be, much more acute for all businesses IMO. Many people faced with a poor quality product in any sector will chose not to buy it but to replace it with something else that they might enjoy more or indeed nothing at all!

That is the dilemna for Hibs and virtually every other business now and for the foreseeable future. Failure to deliver approriate and acceptable content and quality by way of product will lead to business decline at best and business failure at worst!

In my opinion of course.

And you are very much entitled to your opinion. I see it a little differently however as I don't view Hibs as a product. Hibs are much more than a product. I don't support a product, I support a team that has long standing, honourable traditions from the port of leith as many of my family before me have. Like every other Hibby I dream of us having success but if we don't then there are a million other reasons why I'll always be a Hibby. I know that not everyone thinks that way but in my opinion everyone who claims to be a Hibby (or a supporter of any other non OF team) should get behind their team in every way possible to them to show the world that Scottish football can thrive without the sectarian franchise ruining it.

[Northernhibee]

The apathy of our support staggers me.

If you're pissed off about the team, tell the people that make the decisions like the board - whether that's protests or whatever, don't waste your drivel on internet forums where it's all headed into empty space. Direct it into the right areas.

If you've had enough, it's our ****ing team - not Petrie's, not STF. Hibs belongs to the fans - don't stop going -fight for a better team.

If I hadn't been made redundant recently, I would have been buying a season ticket - soon as I'm back in a job, I'll be rejoining the party ASAP.

Much as the way that Rangers have been despicable in the way that they've conducted themselves, I do like the "We don't do walking away" thing (much as I'll gloat when they do start walking away). I think we need to be a bit more like that - much as PF says, we need to stop being so soft and showing Petrie and the board that we will not accept failure any longer. It's success or change, nothing in between.

[Beefster]

I thought trolling was against the rules.

[lEXO]

Comedic value?

Yes, and lost on some. I dinnae post a lot, but this made me chuckle. Nice one Mikey

[matty_f]

I thought trolling was against the rules.

Can you list what sort of posts are allowed? :greengrin

[matty_f]

And you are very much entitled to your opinion. I see it a little differently however as I don't view Hibs as a product. Hibs are much more than a product. I don't support a product, I support a team that has long standing, honourable traditions from the port of leith as many of my family before me have. Like every other Hibby I dream of us having success but if we don't then there are a million other reasons why I'll always be a Hibby. I know that not everyone thinks that way but in my opinion everyone who claims to be a Hibby (or a supporter of any other non OF team) should get behind their team in every way possible to them to show the world that Scottish football can thrive without the sectarian franchise ruining it.

:top marks: I'm a supporter not a customer. I support a football team not a commercial business, and I watch football not a product.

Naturally, I understand that football clubs have to run as businesses but we are not comparable with Coca Cola, for example. We are a football club with a small and loyal support base.

There is a limit to how much income any Scottish club can generate from outside its own fan base so it's essential that its support provides an income big enough to support its ambitions.

[blackpoolhibs]

:top marks: I'm a supporter not a customer. I support a football team not a commercial business, and I watch football not a product.

Naturally, I understand that football clubs have to run as businesses but we are not comparable with Coca Cola, for example. We are a football club with a small and loyal support base.

There is a limit to how much income any Scottish club can generate from outside its own fan base so it's essential that its support provides an income big enough to support its ambitions.

I think most of us think the same way as you do, although just as there's a limit to how much a club can generate from its own fan base, there's also a limit to how much rubbish they will watch before doing something else.

Its then a very hard job getting them back, especially when its the guy who's been a major player in our slide from grace doing the begging.

[DH1875]

Tin hat time :tin hat:.

But I reckon we punted Yogi to soon and IF you believe the philosophy he had for the season you can see what he had in mind.

[matty_f]

I think most of us think the same way as you do, although just as there's a limit to how much a club can generate from its own fan base, there's also a limit to how much rubbish they will watch before doing something else.

Its then a very hard job getting them back, especially when its the guy who's been a major player in our slide from grace doing the begging.

Yep, I understand that.

I appreciate people have a choice in it but for me - this time especially- it's about seeing past the board and standing up for the team. I don't agree with everything the board does or has done but imho that's for another time.

This is ALL about ensuring we come through this in as healthy a position as possible. We are a big club, it costs a lot to keep us going and we've been dangerously close to relegation 2 years on the spin. We clearly have no money, the club have made it clear we need more income to rebuild the team. For me, this pre-season is as important a time to 'do our bit' as Hands Off Hibs/ SUABC etc.

My big concern is that folk dig their heels in and we end up ******. It's a long way back if we go down and it really won't matter if it was the board's fault or not. Our club will have gone down the sh**ter and a good number of supporters will have stood back and let it happen.

I'd much rather see us strong and then be in a position to campaign for change without putting the club at risk.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yep, I understand that.

I appreciate people have a choice in it but for me - this time especially- it's about seeing past the board and standing up for the team. I don't agree with everything the board does or has done but imho that's for another time.

This is ALL about ensuring we come through this in as healthy a position as possible. We are a big club, it costs a lot to keep us going and we've been dangerously close to relegation 2 years on the spin. We clearly have no money, the club have made it clear we need more income to rebuild the team. For me, this pre-season is as important a time to 'do our bit' as Hands Off Hibs/ SUABC etc.

My big concern is that folk dig their heels in and we end up ******. It's a long way back if we go down and it really won't matter if it was the board's fault or not. Our club will have gone down the sh**ter and a good number of supporters will have stood back and let it happen.

I'd much rather see us strong and then be in a position to campaign for change without putting the club at risk.

Hands off Hibs worked because of 2 things, Mowbrays philosophy, and the emergence of a great crop of players.

As much as i'd like to say it was because the fans stood up and were counted, and we did. Would we had we had Calderwood and his comical sweetiesgate fiasco and football genius tactics?

The fans who have had enough, have just, had enough. In my opinion only a winning team will get them back, as i said before, the chicken and egg scenario.

And i personally dont think they will be back to invest their hard earned money, the board should show the way forward and put the money up front for a change instead of all the begging.

[Jonnyboy]

Hands off Hibs worked because of 2 things, Mowbrays philosophy, and the emergence of a great crop of players.

As much as i'd like to say it was because the fans stood up and were counted, and we did. Would we had we had Calderwood and his comical sweetiesgate fiasco and football genius tactics?

The fans who have had enough, have just, had enough. In my opinion only a winning team will get them back, as i said before, the chicken and egg scenario.

And i personally dont think they will be back to invest their hard earned money, the board should show the way forward and put the money up front for a change instead of all the begging.

Hate to be pedantic but it was Hands on Hibs. Hands off Hibs was at the time of Mercer.

[blackpoolhibs]

Hate to be pedantic but it was Hands on Hibs. Hands off Hibs was at the time of Mercer.

:agree:

[matty_f]

Hands off Hibs worked because of 2 things, Mowbrays philosophy, and the emergence of a great crop of players.

As much as i'd like to say it was because the fans stood up and were counted, and we did. Would we had we had Calderwood and his comical sweetiesgate fiasco and football genius tactics?

The fans who have had enough, have just, had enough. In my opinion only a winning team will get them back, as i said before, the chicken and egg scenario.

And i personally dont think they will be back to invest their hard earned money, the board should show the way forward and put the money up front for a change instead of all the begging.

Would you not say that the board have done that over the last 2 years, spending £800k more than we took in the year before last, and i think about the same this past year? STF has put money in over that period tol IIRC.

I just don't think that the club has money left to be able to put it in, and given how the financial projections for a post newco Scottish football have been presented, I can't see us being well placed to borrow it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Would you not say that the board have done that over the last 2 years, spending £800k more than we took in the year before last, and i think about the same this past year? STF has put money in over that period tol IIRC.

I just don't think that the club has money left to be able to put it in, and given how the financial projections for a post newco Scottish football have been presented, I can't see us being well placed to borrow it.

I do think they have put the money in Matty, thats my point. They always put money in when were are struggling, yet we are struggling now, struggling now because we have been pish and had to unload everyone.

We are now left with a poor side, one no better than we had last season. So invest now the money they will find if we are 11th next season, invest it now to stop that happening.

[matty_f]

I do think they have put the money in Matty, thats my point. They always put money in when were are struggling, yet we are struggling now, struggling now because we have been pish and had to unload everyone.

We are now left with a poor side, one no better than we had last season. So invest now the money they will find if we are 11th next season, invest it now to stop that happening.

I don't think that money's there, BH. Having to find it 2 years on the spin has left us skint as it is, that's before accounting for sevco.

3000 season tickets is a lot of money to find. We could end up with a lot of wide eyed people watching the club go down as they wait and see who blinks first.

Everyone at the club wants the best possible team on the park. There have been huge cuts at the club to try and maintain as much of Fenlon's budget as possible. There's nobody at the club sitting on a stash of money hoping that they won't have to spend it. They literally do not have any more to put in.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't think that money's there, BH. Having to find it 2 years on the spin has left us skint as it is, that's before accounting for sevco.

3000 season tickets is a lot of money to find. We could end up with a lot of wide eyed people watching the club go down as they wait and see who blinks first.

Everyone at the club wants the best possible team on the park. There have been huge cuts at the club to try and maintain as much of Fenlon's budget as possible. There's nobody at the club sitting on a stash of money hoping that they won't have to spend it. They literally do not have any more to put in.

Thats something we are told every year, yet we do find more? My guess is it comes from STF, are you telling me he's skint now Matty?

[matty_f]

Thats something we are told every year, yet we do find more? My guess is it comes from STF, are you telling me he's skint now Matty?

Would doubt very much he's skint. I think he has helped out but despite that help we've lost a lot of money. There's only so long any club can continue to lose money. IIRC we had a cash balance that absorbed the losses (could have this totally wrong, mind :greengrin ) but that cash isn't there now. Consecutive years of hundreds of thousands of pounds is bad news.
In that position it's almost impossible to borrow money as you can't demonstrate that you can afford repayments.

[blackpoolhibs]

Would doubt very much he's skint. I think he has helped out but despite that help we've lost a lot of money. There's only so long any club can continue to lose money. IIRC we had a cash balance that absorbed the losses (could have this totally wrong, mind :greengrin ) but that cash isn't there now. Consecutive years of hundreds of thousands of pounds is bad news.
In that position it's almost impossible to borrow money as you can't demonstrate that you can afford repayments.

If we are as skint as you say, what happens this coming season if we are struggling and in a relegation battle?

Would the board not bother going to STF and asking for more money, and just take the chance we manage to stay up, or would they ask him to give some funds for the fight?

My guess is the later, and again in my opinion we are in a mess now, and need that money now.

[Hibernia&Alba]

To give a po-faced serious answer to Mikey's OP -

I'm sick of Hibs being a laughing stock
I'm sick of not punching our weight in the league
I'm sick of losing derbies
I'm sick of downsizing
I'm sick of ever more empty seats
I'm sick of nobody taking the club by the scruff of the neck and making something happen

If Pat doesn't improve us, I don't know where we'll go next. I'm getting desperate.

[Beefster]

Can you list what sort of posts are allowed? :greengrin

Mine and any that agree with me.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Mine and any that agree with me.


Colin Calderwood is banned :na na:

[sahib]

We've been operating and living in a different world since late 2007 just in case you hadn't noticed and very probably will continue to be doing that for another few years yet according the the learned economic forecasters who purport to know more about what is happening Globally and locally in the economic sense thatn the rest of us!

As a result, the need to be more focused and appropriate in terms of product delivery content and quality is now, and will continue to be, much more acute for all businesses IMO. Many people faced with a poor quality product in any sector will chose not to buy it but to replace it with something else that they might enjoy more or indeed nothing at all!

That is the dilemna for Hibs and virtually every other business now and for the foreseeable future. Failure to deliver approriate and acceptable content and quality by way of product will lead to business decline at best and business failure at worst!

In my opinion of course.

Have you been on a training course?

[Pete]

Some of us are waking up to the real future facing Scottish football fans. We can either choose to be working supporters (who get the sleeves rolled up and get stuck in to work for their clubs) or disaffected customers embroiled in a permanent jaded world of protest, boycotts and messageboard doom and gloom against 'the bosses'. In the game rather than mere spectators of the game.

We choose the former - not because it's morally right nor supported by past events. We choose that course because as Hibs Supporters we are the only permanent guardians of this historic football club. Owners, chairmen, board members, managers will all come and go. We will always be here

This is OUR club and it's up to us to help secure it's future


:agree:

I'm sure some people would like SLA's introduced.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Yes indeed. Farmer and Petrie have fended off a string of mega rich would-be owners over the last 20 years.

Perhaps they should call up that nice Mr Kennedy to see if he is still interested?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Sumner]

.. I've dared to criticise Hibs once or twice in the last 37 years, but I think I might have got away with it.. I'm keeping a low profile, just in case.. naebody tell the Tache mind..

.. to cover my tracks I'll be sure to happy-clap in the East this season to divert attention, and maybe a chorus of Kumbaya just in case suspiscion rises, happy Hibee act engaged for another highly entertaining, successful progressive season, Od-Li-De, Ob-Li-Da..!!

[matty_f]

If we are as skint as you say, what happens this coming season if we are struggling and in a relegation battle?

Would the board not bother going to STF and asking for more money, and just take the chance we manage to stay up, or would they ask him to give some funds for the fight?

My guess is the later, and again in my opinion we are in a mess now, and need that money now.

IMHO, if we are in relegation trouble this season, we'll be riding our luck rather than spending out of it. Look at the last January window, Fenlon had to search around for loan deals-he wasn't really given money to spend his way out of trouble.

[blackpoolhibs]

IMHO, if we are in relegation trouble this season, we'll be riding our luck rather than spending out of it. Look at the last January window, Fenlon had to search around for loan deals-he wasn't really given money to spend his way out of trouble.

Well that points out again, just how bad the people in charge have lead us recently. Blind faith in numpty managers they appointed, yet they come begging to the very people they have pissed off and walked away?:rolleyes:

We aint going to get 3000 extra heads through the door, we would with a winning side though, let them put the money up first, start begging STF, HE DOES HAVE IT, other folk have found something else to do for now.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Have enjoyed some of the humerous posts on this thread, its good IMO that most of us can have a laugh at ourselves. I've always thought that was one of the things that set us aside from the Yams.

But .... I do agree with the posters on here who are trying to get the message across that this season isnt about normal fitba fans doing normal fitba fan stuff .......... Though I dont like it, its a fact that for any club anywhere in the world ( in any sport ) with a few remarkable exceptions the price of a series of failed seasons is lower crowds and all that comes with that.

But this isnt a normal season ....... This season is a watershed in the history of Scottish football .... The game in this country stands on the very brink of disaster.

It is very possible that the future path of Scottish football depends on what we ( the fans ) do next. Will we see the danger and put aside our anger at how poorly our clubs have performed recently. This especially relates to the fans of Aberdeen and Hibs ... two of the countries biggest clubs, who have underperformed for a number of seasons.

Or will too many of us stand aside and watch Scottish football descend into a League of Ireland scenario, where most of the 'fans' in that country pledge allegiance to clubs in a different country and rarely go to give support to their own game.

I for one have always been extremely proud that a wee country like this has managed to sustain a full time professional league against the odds ...... Its something that I am prepared to fight to keep.


GGTTH ....... GGTSF

[ShanksSaidNo]

It's not just been since the final whistle blew on March 18th 2007, it's been going on for much longer than that. Farmer and Petrie have been at Hibs for years and years yet nothing has changed. Countless opportunities have been missed and yet they're still at the helm.

So tell me, given that those two are still at the top of the tree, just what have the board critics achieved over the years? It's time they showed a bit of imagination. A bit of ambition. Try something new. Simply repeating the same criticism day after day clearly doesn't work.

I say we cast them aside and get a new set of board critics. Get in people who know what they're doing. Offer reduced prices for them because everyone knows that if you charge half the price you'll get double the critics. The current set of board critics couldn't organise a piss up in a sold off car park. If you gave them a pitchfork and a flaming torch they would end up with singed eyebrows and a prick up their bottom.

We need proper protests. Car boot sales, refusing to clean behind your ears, not finishing your tea. Those are actions that get real results. Does anyone know Nick Buckles phone number?

It's time for change. Vive la revolution.

Mikey, you had me hangin on your every word until the 'sold off carpark' quote. It means nothin! Doesn't even make sense.

[HFC 0-7]

Would doubt very much he's skint. I think he has helped out but despite that help we've lost a lot of money. There's only so long any club can continue to lose money. IIRC we had a cash balance that absorbed the losses (could have this totally wrong, mind :greengrin ) but that cash isn't there now. Consecutive years of hundreds of thousands of pounds is bad news.
In that position it's almost impossible to borrow money as you can't demonstrate that you can afford repayments.

You are right, we are making losses every year. We are told we need to operate within our means. For the last few seasons everyone knew that we needed a massive rebuilding job that would require more money than a seasons budget. What happened was we tried to live within our means, and to many fans, it looked like the board was not showing ambition or realised the scale of task. More fans turned their backs and more losses occur.

Losses over the last few seasons were inevitable, and IMO, we would have had more chances of keeping the fans onboard and stopping the poor seasons had we made a bigger loss in one of those seasons by spending more on transfers than making smaller losses over a number of seasons.

We have heard the chairmans message about how many more season tickets we need to sell, what we haven't heard is what will make us do it. Right now Petrie will be projecting the loss for the coming season, IMO,he could get on with that and hope to minimise the loss by spending on a signing that fans will love, or he can hope his plea will be heard at 3k more season tickets will be bought.

We can keep the discussions going on these threads which were basically means to annoy some fans and distinguish über fans from the part timers, but the facts are the club needs every fan, probably the part timers more than ever as the uber fans are dwindling. The club need to find a way to entice them back.

IMO, these types of thread just make matters worse, it pushes some fans into being annoyed with hibs even more. We are always going to have the people stating their views on every thread they can, but starting a new thread to point it out in a sarcastic way isn't a good idea IMO.

[jonty]

Have enjoyed some of the humerous posts on this thread, its good IMO that most of us can have a laugh at ourselves. I've always thought that was one of the things that set us aside from the Yams.

But .... I do agree with the posters on here who are trying to get the message across that this season isnt about normal fitba fans doing normal fitba fan stuff .......... Though I dont like it, its a fact that for any club anywhere in the world ( in any sport ) with a few remarkable exceptions the price of a series of failed seasons is lower crowds and all that comes with that.

But this isnt a normal season ....... This season is a watershed in the history of Scottish football .... The game in this country stands on the very brink of disaster.

It is very possible that the future path of Scottish football depends on what we ( the fans ) do next. Will we see the danger and put aside our anger at how poorly our clubs have performed recently. This especially relates to the fans of Aberdeen and Hibs ... two of the countries biggest clubs, who have underperformed for a number of seasons.

Or will too many of us stand aside and watch Scottish football descend into a League of Ireland scenario, where most of the 'fans' in that country pledge allegiance to clubs in a different country and rarely go to give support to their own game.

I for one have always been extremely proud that a wee country like this has managed to sustain a full time professional league against the odds ...... Its something that I am prepared to fight to keep.


GGTTH ....... GGTSF

:agree: The team who gets the most supporters behind them this season will come out on top this year - they'll continue in that vein and enjoy a few good seasons at the right end of the league.

The team who's supporters don't turn up, will be bottom six at best - disppear at worst.

[blackpoolhibs]

:agree: The team who gets the most supporters behind them this season will come out on top this year - they'll continue in that vein and enjoy a few good seasons at the right end of the league.

The team who's supporters don't turn up, will be bottom six at best - disppear at worst.

That just not true Jonty, most seasons we get more support than all the teams in the SPL bar 3. Plus these teams that finished above us, all had and still have better teams than we currently have.

We will still sell more season tickets than most teams, probably bar celtic hearts and aberdeen, will that mean 4th place is ours?

[NAE NOOKIE]

That just not true Jonty, most seasons we get more support than all the teams in the SPL bar 3. Plus these teams that finished above us, all had and still have better teams than we currently have.

We will still sell more season tickets than most teams, probably bar celtic hearts and aberdeen, will that mean 4th place is ours?

Its true ..... Look at Newcastle Utd .... a bigger support that 2 thirds of the EPL but year on year nowhere.

This is not about a bigger support to win stuff or be better in the league though. This is about a bigger support being required by ALL clubs ... If not to avoid going bust, then at least to avoid part time football ... which could be the long run outcome of all of this if we dont step up to the plate.

[blackpoolhibs]

Its true ..... Look at Newcastle Utd .... a bigger support that 2 thirds of the EPL but year on year nowhere.

This is not about a bigger support to win stuff or be better in the league though. This is about a bigger support being required by ALL clubs ... If not to avoid going bust, then at least to avoid part time football ... which could be the long run outcome of all of this if we dont step up to the plate.

I know its about bringing in fans to plug the money gap losing sevco brings, and its about survival too. Although you have some folk saying people are digging their heels in, being stubborn, basically not going to renew on spite.

Thats bollox, folk are not going because they are fed up watching pish, now thats a wee bit unlucky for Hibs, because its coupled with the sevco fiasco.

A winning team will attract fans, not a begging speech from the man who's responsible in a huge way to those who have left.

Football is not the be all and end all for everyone, and its time those at Hibs realised this.

[marinello59]

Been away for a few days.....good to see that the sense of humour bypass went well. :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

Have enjoyed some of the humerous posts on this thread, its good IMO that most of us can have a laugh at ourselves. I've always thought that was one of the things that set us aside from the Yams.

But .... I do agree with the posters on here who are trying to get the message across that this season isnt about normal fitba fans doing normal fitba fan stuff .......... Though I dont like it, its a fact that for any club anywhere in the world ( in any sport ) with a few remarkable exceptions the price of a series of failed seasons is lower crowds and all that comes with that.

But this isnt a normal season ....... This season is a watershed in the history of Scottish football .... The game in this country stands on the very brink of disaster.

It is very possible that the future path of Scottish football depends on what we ( the fans ) do next. Will we see the danger and put aside our anger at how poorly our clubs have performed recently. This especially relates to the fans of Aberdeen and Hibs ... two of the countries biggest clubs, who have underperformed for a number of seasons.

Or will too many of us stand aside and watch Scottish football descend into a League of Ireland scenario, where most of the 'fans' in that country pledge allegiance to clubs in a different country and rarely go to give support to their own game.

I for one have always been extremely proud that a wee country like this has managed to sustain a full time professional league against the odds ...... Its something that I am prepared to fight to keep.


GGTTH ....... GGTSF

Agreed its time to show everyone that there is more to scottish football than the of. We have many problems at er but not buying a season ticket is not going to solve them. I hope everyone that can afford a season ticket will buy one then we can get on with solving our issues

[matty_f]

Well that points out again, just how bad the people in charge have lead us recently. Blind faith in numpty managers they appointed, yet they come begging to the very people they have pissed off and walked away?:rolleyes:

We aint going to get 3000 extra heads through the door, we would with a winning side though, let them put the money up first, start begging STF, HE DOES HAVE IT, other folk have found something else to do for now.

So how do we go about getting STF to put money in?

[marinello59]

So how do we go about getting STF to put money in?

By telling him we can't be arsed doing it ourselves. That should do the trick. :agree:

[blackpoolhibs]

So how do we go about getting STF to put money in?

Are you that daft Matty? He and his man in charge can see we are struggling, the board members open their mouths and ask him. :confused:

They dont seem to have any problems begging from us, maybe they should be looking a little closer to home for the money?

I dont understand why this is so hard to see, the fans have voted with their feet. And once you start to do something else, its a lot easier to stop going, and much harder to entice them back.

The only way they will return is to watch a winning or exciting team, no amount of begging will get them back in the numbers Petrie waffled on about.

Its time for them to show they can lead us from the top, they are the only ones who can.

[blackpoolhibs]

By telling him we can't be arsed doing it ourselves. That should do the trick. :agree:

We couldn't manage a decent side with much larger season ticket sales, was that our fault too?:confused:

Just how many more season ticket do we have to sell, to finish above Inverness or St Mirren?

[matty_f]

Are you that daft Matty? He and his man in charge can see we are struggling, the board members open their mouths and ask him. :confused:

They dont seem to have any problems begging from us, maybe they should be looking a little closer to home for the money?

I dont understand why this is so hard to see, the fans have voted with their feet. And once you start to do something else, its a lot easier to stop going, and much harder to entice them back.

The only way they will return is to watch a winning or exciting team, no amount of begging will get them back in the numbers Petrie waffled on about.

Its time for them to show they can lead us from the top, they are the only ones who can.
They've asked and STF maintains the club needs to be self-sufficient.

Was thinking along the lines of the support asking, to be honest.

[blackpoolhibs]

They've asked and STF maintains the club needs to be self-sufficient.

Was thinking along the lines of the support asking, to be honest.

Well we will just have to cut our cloth accordingly, Inverness manage it well enough,its time we did too.

[marinello59]

We couldn't manage a decent side with much larger season ticket sales, was that our fault too?:confused:

Just how many more season ticket do we have to sell, to finish above Inverness or St Mirren?

Where the **** have I ever said that? Just stick to posting the same thing over and over and over again and please don't put words in to my mouth.

[Beefster]

So how do we go about getting STF to put money in?

I'm boycotting Farmer Autocare, Scottish Power, Kwik Fit and the SNP until he gets his wallet out.

To be fair, the fact that the innovative ideas from our Board stretch to begging STF and the support for cash tell you all you need to know about the creativity that Rodders and Son of have fostered within Hibs during their time there.

[jonty]

That just not true Jonty, most seasons we get more support than all the teams in the SPL bar 3. Plus these teams that finished above us, all had and still have better teams than we currently have.

We will still sell more season tickets than most teams, probably bar celtic hearts and aberdeen, will that mean 4th place is ours?

But the difference is this season - all other teams will be cutting back on spending - if they even bring anyone in. This is the best chance we've got to stabalise and build a team while others can't build much.

The problem is, we're starting from scratch almost while most other teams have something build from. There wont be much money in the SPL for the next few years - whoever gets ahead now, will stay ahead.

[matty_f]

I'm boycotting Farmer Autocare, Scottish Power, Kwik Fit and the SNP until he gets his wallet out.

To be fair, the fact that the innovative ideas from our Board stretch to begging STF and the support for cash tell you all you need to know about the creativity that Rodders and Son of have fostered within Hibs during their time there.

That and the sponsorship deals etc to get income in. We're a football club, with a very limited 'customer' base and a limited exposure for advertising .

I can't think it's that simple to drive up income, to be honest.

[matty_f]

Where the **** have I ever said that? Just stick to posting the same thing over and over and over again and please don't put words in to my mouth.

I can't recall seeing a single post on the subject saying it's the fans' fault.

[blackpoolhibs]

Where the **** have I ever said that? Just stick to posting the same thing over and over and over again and please don't put words in to my mouth.


No you are right you never aid that, and i apologise. As for posting the same thing, if folk are saying More Hibs fans through the gate is our only saviour now, i will point out its not, and why thats not true.


But the difference is this season - all other teams will be cutting back on spending - if they even bring anyone in. This is the best chance we've got to stabalise and build a team while others can't build much.

The problem is, we're starting from scratch almost while most other teams have something build from. There wont be much money in the SPL for the next few years - whoever gets ahead now, will stay ahead.

If as you say every team is cutting back this season Jonty, will we be the only club asking for more fans to come through the doors? If so, we should have kept it a little more quiet, as i'd imagine with it being such a great idea from Rod, they will all be at it now?

Yes i agree with your last sentence, we are starting from scratch, we need more players than many clubs above us last season, how are we supposed to manage this with less money? If ever there was a time the club asked our owner for some money UP FRONT, this is the time in my opinion.

[Saorsa]

I can't recall seeing a single post on the subject saying it's the fans' fault.So it's not the fans fault. Why then are we the ones that have tae keep paying tae try and sort out the ****in' mess they keep making? For people who get paid a good bit mair than maist fans they dinnae seem tae be very good at coming up with innovative ideas tae sort their mess out, begging for our money seems tae be the extent of what they are capable of coming up with.

They've made the ****in' mess and for years we're the ones who have suffered for it but still we have people telling us what a good job they are doin'. :rolleyes:

[matty_f]

So it's not the fans fault. Why then are we the ones that have tae keep paying for it and tae sort out the ****in' mess they keep making? For people who get paid a good bit mair than maist fans they dinnae seem tae be very good at coming up with innovative ideas tae sort their mess out, begging for our money seems tae be the extent of what they are capable of coming up with.

They've made the ****in' mess and for years we're the ones who have suffered for it.

Yes we've suffered for it but where else is the money coming from? Hibs as a business have a very limited scope to generate income.

We have fans (ticket sales/merchandise etc), sponsors, tv income, and prize money. Maybe a couple of other avenues that I haven't considered.

We know tv money will be down due to sevco. We know prize money will be pish because we were second bottom last year. Sponsorship may well take a hit because we won't have the same exposure with no Sevco in the league putting viewing figures down.

We could try advertising but I'd be interested to see how much new income it would generate against the cost of doing it. My guess is that the reward doesn't justify the expense.

So a lot of it has to fall on the supporters. It's our club. Businesses will spend where there is more reward for them. If a bus campaign gets a better return for a company than sponsoring or advertising at Hibs, then that's where a business will spend their money.


The club are not begging fans, they're setting out the harsh reality of oyr situation .

[Saorsa]

Yes we've suffered for it but where else is the money coming from? Hibs as a business have a very limited scope to generate income.

We have fans (ticket sales/merchandise etc), sponsors, tv income, and prize money. Maybe a couple of other avenues that I haven't considered.

We know tv money will be down due to sevco. We know prize money will be pish because we were second bottom last year. Sponsorship may well take a hit because we won't have the same exposure with no Sevco in the league putting viewing figures down.

We could try advertising but I'd be interested to see how much new income it would generate against the cost of doing it. My guess is that the reward doesn't justify the expense.

So a lot of it has to fall on the supporters. It's our club. Businesses will spend where there is more reward for them. If a bus campaign gets a better return for a company than sponsoring or advertising at Hibs, then that's where a business will spend their money.


The club are not begging fans, they're setting out the harsh reality of oyr situation .Thousands of fans who were puting their money in have been driven away because of the mistakes and abject failures of this board and the way they have gone about things. Calderwood should have been Petrie's very last mistake and he should have taken his lapdog Lindsay with him.

[silverhibee]

They've asked and STF maintains the club needs to be self-sufficient.

Was thinking along the lines of the support asking, to be honest.


I go to my mums for tea on a Sunday Matty, if i see him out in his back garden i will ask him to splash the cash. :aok: :greengrin :wink:

[matty_f]

I go to my mums for tea on a Sunday Matty, if i see him out in his back garden i will ask him to splash the cash. :aok: :greengrin :wink:

:thumbsup: good man!!

[matty_f]

Thousands of fans who were puting their money in have been driven away because of the mistakes and abject failures of this board and the way they have gone about things. Calderwood should have been Petrie's very last mistake and he should have taken his lapdog Lindsay with him.

So are you saying that because of Petrie we shouldn't help the club now when we're pretty ******?

[BoltonHibee]

So are you saying that because of Petrie we shouldn't help the club now when we're pretty ******?

No he is saying Petrie should **** off

[silverhibee]

But the difference is this season - all other teams will be cutting back on spending - if they even bring anyone in. This is the best chance we've got to stabalise and build a team while others can't build much.

The problem is, we're starting from scratch almost while most other teams have something build from. There wont be much money in the SPL for the next few years - whoever gets ahead now, will stay ahead.



What's STF waiting for then.

[blackpoolhibs]

So are you saying that because of Petrie we shouldn't help the club now when we're pretty ******?

And there was me thinking i am the only one putting words in other peoples mouths? :rolleyes:

[Saorsa]

So are you saying that because of Petrie we shouldn't help the club now when we're pretty ******?I haven't said what anybody should or shouldnae be doing, that's entirely up tae them what they dae with their money. The fact is there are many many fans who have had a gutful of what has happened at this club in footballing terms while Petrie has been at the helm and they're fed up puting their money in and wasting it on the mistakes made by this board. Where we are now is entirely down tae those running the club. I'm still puting as much of my money in as I can possibly afford (and then some) tae help my club but TBH I feel like I'm throwing down the pan with that clown at the helm.

[Saorsa]

And there was me thinking i am the only one putting words in other peoples mouths? :rolleyes:nope there are lots of people who dae that :agree:



























I've been guilty of it masel tae be fair :greengrin

[matty_f]

And there was me thinking i am the only one putting words in other peoples mouths? :rolleyes:

Don't know if you noticed but my post was a question, I never put words in anyone's mouth. :wink:

[matty_f]

No he is saying Petrie should **** off

Putting words in his mouth there. Tut tut.

[Saorsa]

Putting words in his mouth there. Tut tut.Those words were fine with me :wink:

[BoltonHibee]

Putting words in his mouth there. Tut tut.

DD was just being subtle, I wanted to clarify what he really meant :)

[matty_f]

DD was just being subtle, I wanted to clarify what he really meant :)

That was what my question was for as well. :wink:

[HibbyAndy]

SUB: Stephens on for Maybury

[Saorsa]

SUB: Stephens on for Maybury:hmmm:

[HibbyAndy]

SUB: Caldwell on for Griffiths

[matty_f]

:hmmm:

:faf:

[Saorsa]

SUB: Stephens on for Maybury


SUB: Caldwell on for Griffithsthat's quite a few changes in the boardroom today :agree:


is Petrie still there though? :dunno:

[HibbyAndy]

SUB: Doyle on for Stanton

[Saorsa]

SUB: Doyle on for Stantonput them on the right thread ya bam :aok:

[matty_f]

put them on the right thread ya bam :aok:

3 times!!! :faf:

[jonty]

If as you say every team is cutting back this season Jonty, will we be the only club asking for more fans to come through the doors? If so, we should have kept it a little more quiet, as i'd imagine with it being such a great idea from Rod, they will all be at it now?

Yes i agree with your last sentence, we are starting from scratch, we need more players than many clubs above us last season, how are we supposed to manage this with less money? If ever there was a time the club asked our owner for some money UP FRONT, this is the time in my opinion.
Dundee Utd and St Mirren have been asking the fans to invest and buy season tickets since the SPL vote not to transfer oldco's SPL share to newco.

Like most teams, their ST is key to building a team at the start of the season.

Hibs need money and yes, i'd love to see STF putting in some money, but to date, he has only helped out when hibs were in serious trouble (ie reactively). I dont think he's put his hand in his pocket pro-actively which is what we would like to happen now.

I doubt that even our wealthiest fans would put the kind of money we'd like to see, into the club.

[blackpoolhibs]

Dundee Utd and St Mirren have been asking the fans to invest and buy season tickets since the SPL vote not to transfer oldco's SPL share to newco.

Like most teams, their ST is key to building a team at the start of the season.

Hibs need money and yes, i'd love to see STF putting in some money, but to date, he has only helped out when hibs were in serious trouble (ie reactively). I dont think he's put his hand in his pocket pro-actively which is what we would like to happen now.

I doubt that even our wealthiest fans would put the kind of money we'd like to see, into the club.

Thats my point, any money he puts in, should be done now before we are struggling not when we are. Thats clearly not been working, and maybe just maybe, putting it in now would A, give us a better team, and B if we get that better team, the crowds will return?

Thats showing leadership, not being lead imo.

[Horse]

Yes we've suffered for it but where else is the money coming from? Hibs as a business have a very limited scope to generate income.

We have fans (ticket sales/merchandise etc), sponsors, tv income, and prize money. Maybe a couple of other avenues that I haven't considered.

We know tv money will be down due to sevco. We know prize money will be pish because we were second bottom last year. Sponsorship may well take a hit because we won't have the same exposure with no Sevco in the league putting viewing figures down.

We could try advertising but I'd be interested to see how much new income it would generate against the cost of doing it. My guess is that the reward doesn't justify the expense.

So a lot of it has to fall on the supporters. It's our club. Businesses will spend where there is more reward for them. If a bus campaign gets a better return for a company than sponsoring or advertising at Hibs, then that's where a business will spend their money.


The club are not begging fans, they're setting out the harsh reality of oyr situation .

Very true. Lets just say that last years playing budget was £4m and this year it is potentially £3m as we have hypothetically lost £1m due to the Huns situation (I am just guessing at the figures as I have no idea what they actually are). There will be very few other means that Hibs have to increase income with the exception of increasing season ticket sales. So based on these figures Pat currently has a £3m playing budget but if we sell another £500,000 worth of season tickets then his budget increases to £3.5m, another £1m worth then he has £4m. So whether we like it or not, it's down to us, the fans to provide the funds to improve the squad - no-one else is gonna do it for us and I'd rather that was the case than us relying on TV deals based on two other teams being able to dominate our league. This is the reality of Scottish football now - External sources appear to be putting less and less cash into the game so the clubs whose supporters invest the most in their club will have the best chance of success. So really the choice we have as Hibs fans is either:

A) Forget about our recent bad form and back the team in every way you can, finances will prevent many of us investing as much as we'd like but even a club membership for £20 is better than nothing.

OR

B) Complain about how bad things have been lately and withdraw your financial support to the club until such a time as we are successful again however if enough people choose this option then that success may never come.

We all wanted big change in football regarding the Huns cheating and we knew this would come at a cost. Things have changed and clubs are relying more than ever on their own supporters. I hope all supporters rise to the challenge.

[Beefster]

That and the sponsorship deals etc to get income in. We're a football club, with a very limited 'customer' base and a limited exposure for advertising .

I can't think it's that simple to drive up income, to be honest.

Corporate sponsorship in its basic form is hardly revolutionary either.

Driving up income isn't easy but some creativity/innovation helps no end. We have a 21,000 seater stadium so relying on the same old 9,000 folk evidently wasn't part of plan, irrespective of how 'limited' folk will protest our potential is. As far as I'm concerned, their efforts to attract new supporters have been woeful and I'm fairly sure that no-one could provide any evidence to prove otherwise.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I know its about bringing in fans to plug the money gap losing sevco brings, and its about survival too. Although you have some folk saying people are digging their heels in, being stubborn, basically not going to renew on spite.

Thats bollox, folk are not going because they are fed up watching pish, now thats a wee bit unlucky for Hibs, because its coupled with the sevco fiasco.

A winning team will attract fans, not a begging speech from the man who's responsible in a huge way to those who have left.

Football is not the be all and end all for everyone, and its time those at Hibs realised this.That is true BH but for many people it does hold an emotional attachment which is more than can be said for many other things in life.

For many of us being a Hibby is as much about the wellbeing of the club and its survival as an institution as it is about seeing great football or winning cups ....... That by the way doesnt mean we wont moan and bitch like buggery if that doesnt happen.

Anyway ..... because of this it is a source of constant frustration to fans who think this way that the folk who scramble for tickets come cup final day seem less interested in the club when its back is against the wall.

I think that the people running any football club are not blind to the fact that many folk who purport to be supporters only stop being armchair supporters when times are good or when a chance of glory appears over the horizon.

Its great come cup final day to see the Hibs parts of the stadium packed out, not least because every club needs a great backing in important matches. But it is a bit strange that when the very club they cant wait to see win a trophy is in trouble they dont seem very interested.

Hell .. I'm not even talking about selling thousands of season tickets ... If folk who only went to one match last season went to 3 matches this season what a difference it would make.

Dont get me wrong, it is the job of the board of every football club to get revenue from every possible source it can and I sometimes wonder if the board of Hibernian F.C. are capable of thinking out of the box on that matter.

But having said that I am at a loss to understand the criticism RP is getting for his statement on the official site .... exactly what else is he supposed to do. He has been at Hampden a few times over the last decade or so and seen Hibs supports ranging from 25,000 to nearly 40,000 in that time and also in the certain knowledge that barely 9 weeks ago the club he runs could have easily sold 40,000 plus tickets for a match.

To make a plea for at least some of those Hibs supporters to help the club get through the next few seasons to my mind is not "begging" as some people have put it. Begging is when you stick out your hand to a total stranger in the hope that he will feel sorry for you.

Asking people who have in the recent past given the impression that they actually care about Hibs is not begging.

Lets face it ...... if these people think that Hibs asking them to come to the clubs rescue is unreasonable ... or begging ... then what the fkkkk were they even doing at Hampden in the bloody first place?

[matty_f]

:top marks Bovril

[Barney McGrew]

That is true BH but for many people it does hold an emotional attachment which is more than can be said for many other things in life.

For many of us being a Hibby is as much about the wellbeing of the club and its survival as an institution as it is about seeing great football or winning cups ....... That by the way doesnt mean we wont moan and bitch like buggery if that doesnt happen.

Anyway ..... because of this it is a source of constant frustration to fans who think this way that the folk who scramble for tickets come cup final day seem less interested in the club when its back is against the wall.

I think that the people running any football club are not blind to the fact that many folk who purport to be supporters only stop being armchair supporters when times are good or when a chance of glory appears over the horizon.

Its great come cup final day to see the Hibs parts of the stadium packed out, not least because every club needs a great backing in important matches. But it is a bit strange that when the very club they cant wait to see win a trophy is in trouble they dont seem very interested.

Hell .. I'm not even talking about selling thousands of season tickets ... If folk who only went to one match last season went to 3 matches this season what a difference it would make.

Dont get me wrong, it is the job of the board of every football club to get revenue from every possible source it can and I sometimes wonder if the board of Hibernian F.C. are capable of thinking out of the box on that matter.

But having said that I am at a loss to understand the criticism RP is getting for his statement on the official site .... exactly what else is he supposed to do. He has been at Hampden a few times over the last decade or so and seen Hibs supports ranging from 25,000 to nearly 40,000 in that time and also in the certain knowledge that barely 9 weeks ago the club he runs could have easily sold 40,000 plus tickets for a match.

To make a plea for at least some of those Hibs supporters to help the club get through the next few seasons to my mind is not "begging" as some people have put it. Begging is when you stick out your hand to a total stranger in the hope that he will feel sorry for you.

Asking people who have in the recent past given the impression that they actually care about Hibs is not begging.

Lets face it ...... if these people think that Hibs asking them to come to the clubs rescue is unreasonable ... or begging ... then what the fkkkk were they even doing at Hampden in the bloody first place?

Quite simply one of the best posts that has ever been made on this site.

[Beefster]

Lets face it ...... if these people think that Hibs asking them to come to the clubs rescue is unreasonable ... or begging ... then what the fkkkk were they even doing at Hampden in the bloody first place?

Is it the repeated demands on the supporters that folk find unreasonable or the fact that that is their only idea? No drive to attract new supporters, no initiative to tempt lapsed supporters to want to go back, not a sausage. Everything is negativity and "help us out or we'll still be pish and it'll all be your fault".

[blackpoolhibs]

That is true BH but for many people it does hold an emotional attachment which is more than can be said for many other things in life.

I agree, i'd imagine we have ALL spent more than we probably should have, to the detriment of some very important things in our lives.

For many of us being a Hibby is as much about the wellbeing of the club and its survival as an institution as it is about seeing great football or winning cups ....... That by the way doesnt mean we wont moan and bitch like buggery if that doesnt happen.

:agree:

Anyway ..... because of this it is a source of constant frustration to fans who think this way that the folk who scramble for tickets come cup final day seem less interested in the club when its back is against the wall.

Again we agree, although its not those that i worry about. We will always have a huge support for a final, we have a lot of fans who have some affiliation to Hibs .:wink:

I think that the people running any football club are not blind to the fact that many folk who purport to be supporters only stop being armchair supporters when times are good or when a chance of glory appears over the horizon.

Thats always been the case with every football club, less wins = less fans.

Its great come cup final day to see the Hibs parts of the stadium packed out, not least because every club needs a great backing in important matches. But it is a bit strange that when the very club they cant wait to see win a trophy is in trouble they dont seem very interested.

This is where we disagree, we have a hard core of fans, perhaps 8-9 thousand? If we are doing better, we get around 11 thousand. Those extra 15 thousand who were at Hampden, are not the real targets we should be aiming to get back, its the lapsed 2 or 3 thousand that Petrie wants to buy a season ticket. Now i see where Petrie is coming from, i disagree with his way about it.

Hell .. I'm not even talking about selling thousands of season tickets ... If folk who only went to one match last season went to 3 matches this season what a difference it would make.

:agree:

Dont get me wrong, it is the job of the board of every football club to get revenue from every possible source it can and I sometimes wonder if the board of Hibernian F.C. are capable of thinking out of the box on that matter.

Again :agree:

But having said that I am at a loss to understand the criticism RP is getting for his statement on the official site .... exactly what else is he supposed to do. He has been at Hampden a few times over the last decade or so and seen Hibs supports ranging from 25,000 to nearly 40,000 in that time and also in the certain knowledge that barely 9 weeks ago the club he runs could have easily sold 40,000 plus tickets for a match.

Cup finals are one offs, any gauge we make of the support should be made from league games, not cup finals.

To make a plea for at least some of those Hibs supporters to help the club get through the next few seasons to my mind is not "begging" as some people have put it. Begging is when you stick out your hand to a total stranger in the hope that he will feel sorry for you.

Well it might not actually be begging, but it sure as hell feels like it, we only seem to here from Rod when he wants money, you can hardly blame folk for thinking this way?

Asking people who have in the recent past given the impression that they actually care about Hibs is not begging.

See above.

Lets face it ...... if these people think that Hibs asking them to come to the clubs rescue is unreasonable ... or begging ... then what the fkkkk were they even doing at Hampden in the bloody first place?

They were at hampden because they dont go very often, they live far away, it was a final, it could be one of many reasons, but these folk are not regular attendee's. We'd all love them to be regulars, but getting the 2 or 3 thousand who have pissed off should be the first aim. And they wont get them back by simply asking them, if it was that easy every club would do it.

The club have to lead us, they have to put up first and then they might come back? They are not going because the products pish, once we loose them for a year or two, they could be gone for good, we need to entice them back, if not others will follow, nothings surer. In my opinion its up to the board now.

[Saorsa]

Is it the repeated demands on the supporters that folk find unreasonable or the fact that that is their only idea? No drive to attract new supporters, no initiative to tempt lapsed supporters to want to go back, not a sausage. Everything is negativity and "help us out or we'll still be pish and it'll all be your fault".Yep, same speech efter every season of failure, give us mair of your money. Some folk are still doing it, many have got fed up seeing their money wasted and many mair will if something isnae done. It's about time they came up with something better and mair innovative than just continually asking the fans for their money only for them tae see it wasted on mistakes.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yep, same speech efter every season of failure, give us mair of your money. Some folk are still doing it, many have got fed up seeing their money wasted and many mair will if something isnae done. It's about time they came up with something better and mair innovative than just continually asking the fans for their money only for then tae see it wasted.

Very true Dan, and although the original post was done with his tongue firmly planted in his cheek, Its becoming apparent that less folk are actually willing to tolerate this failure.

Football is pricing itself out the game these days, and at Hibs the price for the day is the highest in the country, yet all they do is ask for more? :rolleyes:

[matty_f]

Yep, same speech efter every season of failure, give us mair of your money. Some folk are still doing it, many have got fed up seeing their money wasted and many mair will if something isnae done. It's about time they came up with something better and mair innovative than just continually asking the fans for their money only for them tae see it wasted on mistakes.
:agree: It is a ridiculous notion that a football club should ask it's fans to buy season tickets EVERY season. No wonder people are staying away.

[Saorsa]

:agree: It is a ridoculous notion that a football club should ask it's fans to buy season tickets EVERY season. No wonder people are staying away.very witty :rolleyes:

I put my money in, far mair than I have tae every season than just for my season ticket and so dae many others. I have nae problem with that, what I have a problem is we seem tae be the only source of funds that this board want tae squeeze tae breaking point. These people get paid, 50,000, 75,000 grand or whatever a year and they come up with **** all else except gies yer money, that's what's ****in' ridiculous. Maybe time they started doing better for the money they get!

They've ****in' wasted plenty of what they have had with their mistakes

[Mikey]

"help us out or we'll still be pish and it'll all be your fault".

Och, I wish I'd remembered that in my OP. Another myth that gets trotted out when the board needs a good bashing :agree:

[Phil D. Rolls]

The modern critic needs to spend more time studying the basics of the game. Skills such as humour, banter and irony are sadly missing from the current crop. Personally, I think they are spending too much time on internet forums, and not putting enough hours in at the pub.

Sure they have the endurance, and physical strength, but the subtleties of the art seem to have been lost.

Blackley Must Go!

[Pete]

Have we brought any more subs on?

[blackpoolhibs]

Have we brought any more subs on?

Yip, Matty on for Mikey. :wink:

[Jonnyboy]

Bovril's post is excellent but here's a thought to ponder

As the owner of the club, does Sir Tom's liability end with him standing as guarantor and offering up the occasional loan? A loan gets paid back remember and so if you were so minded you could say STF does very little for Hibs in a financial sense. Can that be right for an owner? Someone once said of Sir Tom, when he dragged us free of Mercer, it was like adopting a kid but then failing to feed it.

Now I expect there will be folk who bridle at these thoughts and I'm not daft enough to say STF is loaded and so should cough up as owner. Why should he, after all. Hibs is a business and should live within its means.

How about this for an incentive for folk to buy season tickets. For every ticket bought, STF will gift the club an equal amount to the cost of that ST. In effect that would mean if 1500 more Hibbies bought a ticket the effect would be as though 3,000 had. It shows willing and it shows leadership by our owner.

[marinello59]

Bovril's post is excellent but here's a thought to ponder

As the owner of the club, does Sir Tom's liability end with him standing as guarantor and offering up the occasional loan? A loan gets paid back remember and so if you were so minded you could say STF does very little for Hibs in a financial sense. Can that be right for an owner? Someone once said of Sir Tom, when he dragged us free of Mercer, it was like adopting a kid but then failing to feed it.

Now I expect there will be folk who bridle at these thoughts and I'm not daft enough to say STF is loaded and so should cough up as owner. Why should he, after all. Hibs is a business and should live within its means.

How about this for an incentive for folk to buy season tickets. For every ticket bought, STF will gift the club an equal amount to the cost of that ST. In effect that would mean if 1500 more Hibbies bought a ticket the effect would be as though 3,000 had. It shows willing and it shows leadership by our owner.

At last, a thought provoking post about STF that moves beyond mere demand. Perhaps STF could offer to match (or gift a percantage) of all Season Ticket renewals after a pre-determined target has been reached.

[Ray_]

That is true BH but for many people it does hold an emotional attachment which is more than can be said for many other things in life.

For many of us being a Hibby is as much about the wellbeing of the club and its survival as an institution as it is about seeing great football or winning cups ....... That by the way doesnt mean we wont moan and bitch like buggery if that doesnt happen.

Anyway ..... because of this it is a source of constant frustration to fans who think this way that the folk who scramble for tickets come cup final day seem less interested in the club when its back is against the wall.

I think that the people running any football club are not blind to the fact that many folk who purport to be supporters only stop being armchair supporters when times are good or when a chance of glory appears over the horizon.

Its great come cup final day to see the Hibs parts of the stadium packed out, not least because every club needs a great backing in important matches. But it is a bit strange that when the very club they cant wait to see win a trophy is in trouble they dont seem very interested.

Hell .. I'm not even talking about selling thousands of season tickets ... If folk who only went to one match last season went to 3 matches this season what a difference it would make.

Dont get me wrong, it is the job of the board of every football club to get revenue from every possible source it can and I sometimes wonder if the board of Hibernian F.C. are capable of thinking out of the box on that matter.

But having said that I am at a loss to understand the criticism RP is getting for his statement on the official site .... exactly what else is he supposed to do. He has been at Hampden a few times over the last decade or so and seen Hibs supports ranging from 25,000 to nearly 40,000 in that time and also in the certain knowledge that barely 9 weeks ago the club he runs could have easily sold 40,000 plus tickets for a match.

To make a plea for at least some of those Hibs supporters to help the club get through the next few seasons to my mind is not "begging" as some people have put it. Begging is when you stick out your hand to a total stranger in the hope that he will feel sorry for you.

Asking people who have in the recent past given the impression that they actually care about Hibs is not begging.

Lets face it ...... if these people think that Hibs asking them to come to the clubs rescue is unreasonable ... or begging ... then what the fkkkk were they even doing at Hampden in the bloody first place?

Some people simply want to be entertained, which is a world away from what they have been getting at ER & there is plenty other alternatives elsewhere.

[Beefster]

Och, I wish I'd remembered that in my OP. Another myth that gets trotted out when the board needs a good bashing :agree:

I can't really debate your posts telling me I'm talking pish if you don't provide any substance to why you think I'm talking pish.

Which parts are myths and in what way?

[The Falcon]

Bovril's post is excellent but here's a thought to ponder

As the owner of the club, does Sir Tom's liability end with him standing as guarantor and offering up the occasional loan? A loan gets paid back remember and so if you were so minded you could say STF does very little for Hibs in a financial sense. Can that be right for an owner? Someone once said of Sir Tom, when he dragged us free of Mercer, it was like adopting a kid but then failing to feed it.

Now I expect there will be folk who bridle at these thoughts and I'm not daft enough to say STF is loaded and so should cough up as owner. Why should he, after all. Hibs is a business and should live within its means.




There was a thread on here a wee while back that pointed out that Farmer was a good few million out of pocket through owning Hibs. Money that he is unlikely to get back.

[Jonnyboy]

There was a thread on here a wee while back that pointed out that Farmer was a good few million out of pocket through owning Hibs. Money that he is unlikely to get back.

I've read that suggestion before but have always taken it to be one of those MB kind of stories that get taken as fact. IMO, it would do STF and Hibs no harm whatsoever to detail these cash injections. The gain would be to prove to the fans that although it always seems like it, it's not always the fans that have to stump up.

[3pm]

I've read that suggestion before but have always taken it to be one of those MB kind of stories that get taken as fact. IMO, it would do STF and Hibs no harm whatsoever to detail these cash injections. The gain would be to prove to the fans that although it always seems like it, it's not always the fans that have to stump up.

I wonder if Sir Tom has had any benefit from owning Hibs.

[Jonnyboy]

I wonder if Sir Tom has had any benefit from owning Hibs.

Good question :agree: Other than 'white knight' status, I'd guess little or nothing

[3pm]

Good question :agree: Other than 'white knight' status, I'd guess little or nothing

I don't have any evidence to say one way or another. I just wonder!

[Jonnyboy]

I don't have any evidence to say one way or another. I just wonder!

As do I :greengrin

[Lucius Apuleius]

Very true Dan, and although the original post was done with his tongue firmly planted in his cheek, Its becoming apparent that less folk are actually willing to tolerate this failure.

Football is pricing itself out the game these days, and at Hibs the price for the day is the highest in the country, yet all they do is ask for more? :rolleyes:

Again, I believe that is dependent upon who we are playing, where you sit, whether you have pie and Bovril and buy a programme, otherwise I seem to recall we are about mid table.

[marinello59]

Again, I believe that is dependent upon who we are playing, where you sit, whether you have pie and Bovril and buy a programme, otherwise I seem to recall we are about mid table.

No, it's more dependent on whether you want to believe the worst about Hibs or not. The figures were discussed at length on here and shown to be flawed but that doesn't stop them routinely being trotted out as fact.

[Lucius Apuleius]

No, it's more dependent on whether you want to believe the worst about Hibs or not. The figures were discussed at length on here and shown to be flawed but that doesn't stop them routinely being trotted out as fact.

:agree: I was just saying it nicer than you.:greengrin

[NAE NOOKIE]

They were at hampden because they dont go very often, they live far away, it was a final, it could be one of many reasons, but these folk are not regular attendee's. We'd all love them to be regulars, but getting the 2 or 3 thousand who have pissed off should be the first aim. And they wont get them back by simply asking them, if it was that easy every club would do it.

The club have to lead us, they have to put up first and then they might come back? They are not going because the products pish, once we loose them for a year or two, they could be gone for good, we need to entice them back, if not others will follow, nothings surer. In my opinion its up to the board now.

I agree that there is no chance of getting the 15,000 extra who were at Hampden to go to ER on a more regular basis. But surely the 3,000 that RP is aiming for were part of the 25,000 who were there.

As I've said before .... This isnt the normal plea for fans following the usual bad season, theres more at stake than normal and in my view that should be as big a pull as any cup final if you have more than just a passing interest in Hibs and Scottish football as a whole.

[Ray_]

I agree that there is no chance of getting the 15,000 extra who were at Hampden to go to ER on a more regular basis. But surely the 3,000 that RP is aiming for were part of the 25,000 who were there.

As I've said before .... This isnt the normal plea for fans following the usual bad season, theres more at stake than normal and in my view that should be as big a pull as any cup final if you have more than just a passing interest in Hibs and Scottish football as a whole.

:confused: So far I haven't seen a single article that has said that SKY and/or ESPN have drastically reduced their fee's to Scottish football or that sponsors have fled the scene. Not living there, I may have missed it though.

[TornadoHibby]

I think most of us think the same way as you do, although just as there's a limit to how much a club can generate from its own fan base, there's also a limit to how much rubbish they will watch before doing something else.

Its then a very hard job getting them back, especially when its the guy who's been a major player in our slide from grace doing the begging.

Agreed but those that choose to ignore the bit in bold really do need to wake up and smell the coffee or go take a walk and see what really is going on out there outwith the areas they normally live and work within! Too many within a comfort zone behind these "just keep paying the money no matter how bad it gets" kind of comments IMO! :confused:

[TornadoHibby]

Hands off Hibs worked because of 2 things, Mowbrays philosophy, and the emergence of a great crop of players.

As much as i'd like to say it was because the fans stood up and were counted, and we did. Would we had we had Calderwood and his comical sweetiesgate fiasco and football genius tactics?

The fans who have had enough, have just, had enough. In my opinion only a winning team will get them back, as i said before, the chicken and egg scenario.

And i personally dont think they will be back to invest their hard earned money, the board should show the way forward and put the money up front for a change instead of all the begging.

:top marks

I've been saying that for months until I became exhausted at the fact that a large number of posters on here seem to think that it's somehow the fans that need to sort the finances out and not those that ultimately reap any financial benefits that might arise from the club improving! :confused:

[TornadoHibby]

Would you not say that the board have done that over the last 2 years, spending £800k more than we took in the year before last, and i think about the same this past year? STF has put money in over that period tol IIRC.

I just don't think that the club has money left to be able to put it in, and given how the financial projections for a post newco Scottish football have been presented, I can't see us being well placed to borrow it.

A large number of businesses, many very good ones, have found it well nigh impossible to borrow from Banks since late 2007 to assist their business maintain and/or improve their business activity and performance levels and football clubs are not and never really have been at the top end of the scale of SME businesses which Banks were ever keen to lend to! :confused:

Even if those "post newco Scottish football projections" showed a positive result, I fear that Banks will continue to view Scottish football clubs in the same way that they always have! :agree:

[TornadoHibby]

Have you been on a training course?

For what? :rolleyes:

[TornadoHibby]

So how do we go about getting STF to put money in?

Might well be underway already and the "plea", and ultimate yield, from RP for 3,000 more ST sales between now and the end of next mnth (ish) may be a re-requisite to determining how much of a cash injection is required? :dunno:

[blackpoolhibs]

No, it's more dependent on whether you want to believe the worst about Hibs or not. The figures were discussed at length on here and shown to be flawed but that doesn't stop them routinely being trotted out as fact.

For the average supporter, who are dearer than we are? £405 if my memory is right for the east, not sure what the west is, i know its cheaper in the FF, Which clubs are dearer than us?

[Lucius Apuleius]

:top marks

I've been saying that for months until I became exhausted at the fact that a large number of posters on here seem to think that it's somehow the fans that need to sort the finances out and not those that ultimately reap any financial benefits that might arise from the club improving! :confused:

:faf: Sorry Tornado, I find the thought of anyone reaping financial benefits from investing in a football club pretty funny. Disnae happen. Black hole.

[TornadoHibby]

Bovril's post is excellent but here's a thought to ponder

As the owner of the club, does Sir Tom's liability end with him standing as guarantor and offering up the occasional loan? A loan gets paid back remember and so if you were so minded you could say STF does very little for Hibs in a financial sense. Can that be right for an owner? Someone once said of Sir Tom, when he dragged us free of Mercer, it was like adopting a kid but then failing to feed it.

Now I expect there will be folk who bridle at these thoughts and I'm not daft enough to say STF is loaded and so should cough up as owner. Why should he, after all. Hibs is a business and should live within its means.
How about this for an incentive for folk to buy season tickets. For every ticket bought, STF will gift the club an equal amount to the cost of that ST. In effect that would mean if 1500 more Hibbies bought a ticket the effect would be as though 3,000 had. It shows willing and it shows leadership by our owner.

Not according to most of the posters on this thread JB! :confused:

[TornadoHibby]

I wonder if Sir Tom has had any benefit from owning Hibs.

Was there not some financial benefit for STF (and any fellow investors of his) from commercial property deals picked up along with the football club at the time when STF stepped in to enable the football club to continue? :dunno:

Straiton is ringing a bell somewhere I think?! :dunno:

[hibbymac]

:faf: Sorry Tornado, I find the thought of anyone reaping financial benefits from investing in a football club pretty funny. Disnae happen. Black hole.

Fergus McCann might disagree. :wink:

[TornadoHibby]

:faf: Sorry Tornado, I find the thought of anyone reaping financial benefits from investing in a football club pretty funny. Disnae happen. Black hole.

Only amongst those which are poorly and financially mis-managed, usually as a result of people thinking that football is an easy business to make profits from ignoring all the man management and people issues that can affect the bottom line if not carefully looked after in a proper way! :agree:

Not all football clubs make losses but the fact that so many do is that the management skills generally prevalent are incompatible with or incomplete for managing a successful football club IMO! :confused:

[ahibby]

I read that Hibs are a business and must live within it's means. I agree because we don't have to look that far in to the past to see that borrowing for success or even survival doesn't work and can lead to extinction. However, businesses do borrow and Hibs have borrowed but for infrastructure in the form of stands and we still have a mortgage. I can't agree with the OP though, because there is no point in criticising Hibs for simply being Hibs. I mean what is the point in criticising them for having a long term aim of survival? All they ask for is for us to buy season tickets every year and future fans to do the same, it doesn't matter that Hibs haven't a clue how to win a Scottish Cup or recently put together a good enough team to get close to looking like a top six club. We are Hibs and we know what the aim is, i.e. to have a future, even if that future is potted with embarrassment like subjected to in the cup final and the league last season. You are a Hibby, get over it. However don't take that in to your life outside of Hibs by that I mean do make sure that you punch your weight in what ever trade or profession you choose.:na na:

[Lucius Apuleius]

Fergus McCann might disagree. :wink:

Always exceptions to the rule. Unfortunately not enough like him around.


Only amongst those which are poorly and financially mis-managed, usually as a result of people thinking that football is an easy business to make profits from ignoring all the man management and people issues that can affect the bottom line if not carefully looked after in a proper way! :agree:

Not all football clubs make losses but the fact that so many do is that the management skills generally prevalent are incompatible with or incomplete for managing a successful football club IMO! :confused:

That must be most clubs then mate as I certainly don't see many senior clubs making any money for their owners, not successful ones anyway.

[Littlest Hobo]

Now!!

Now is the time!!

Now is our biggest opportunity!!

Now is a chance for the suits to change our game for the better.

Players wages across the board at every club are too high.

That is what's crippling Scottish football.

Why can't we follow what's being done in Germany?

The product isn't worth the money in Scotland.

Clubs rely on blackmail tactics.

Blind loyalty! That isn't a very good tactic Mr Petrie.

Blind loyalty isn't a very good plan for the future.

Clubs need to get together in Scotland and pay footballers less.

Why can't a footballer go onto another career once his football career has finished?

That's what used to happen.

Why should they be paid such a big wage ??

Sort this and you sort football.

It'll take inter club agreement on wage structure but at least it's a plan.

[Sprouleflyer]

For the average supporter, who are dearer than we are? £405 if my memory is right for the east, not sure what the west is, i know its cheaper in the FF, Which clubs are dearer than us?

£405 for the West.

Hearts have large sections more expensive than our £405 prices.

Their Gold and Platinum sections which are the seats above the walk way are priced at £420 and £480 for an adult, however if memory serves me right I seem to recall that on the day they went on sale you could have picked up a ticket for the price of a banking share for all of 10 seconds before they rocketed back to their retail price!

[Peevemor]

Now!!

Now is the time!!

Now is our biggest opportunity!!

Now is a chance for the suits to change our game for the better.

Players wages across the board at every club are too high.

That is what's crippling Scottish football.

Why can't we follow what's being done in Germany?

The product isn't worth the money in Scotland.

Clubs rely on blackmail tactics.

Blind loyalty! That isn't a very good tactic Mr Petrie.

Blind loyalty isn't a very good plan for the future.

Clubs need to get together in Scotland and pay footballers less.

Why can't a footballer go onto another career once his football career has finished?

That's what used to happen.

Why should they be paid such a big wage ??

Sort this and you sort football.

It'll take inter club agreement on wage structure but at least it's a plan.

Nice idea, but any player that's approaching half decent will bog off the the English lower leagues for more money (even more than already happens).

[Littlest Hobo]

Nice idea, but any player that's approaching half decent will bog off the the English lower leagues for more money (even more than already happens).

Can't argue with you there.

It's a price clubs will have to pay.

Imagine paying £15 entry to football though.

More people through the gates = more interest.

That opens all sorts of possibilities regards tv deals and such like.

Most importantly it would help stop clubs gong to the wall.

It would be more attractive to supporters and maybe attract a new breed of supporters other than the usual loyal fan who goes week in, week out through blind loyalty.

[blackpoolhibs]

Can't argue with you there.

It's a price clubs will have to pay.

Imagine paying £15 entry to football though.

More people through the gates = more interest.

That opens all sorts of possibilities regards tv deals and such like.

Most importantly it would help stop clubs gong to the wall.

It would be more attractive to supporters and maybe attract a new breed of supporters other than the usual loyal fan who goes week in, week out through blind loyalty.

Yip i agree with a lot of that, football has been getting more and more expensive, eventually it prices itself out of more and more people every raise in price. And once you do that, and lose fans its very difficult to get them to come back regularly.

They will pick and choose their games, watch the tv ones on telly and Hibs and Scottish football are the losers.

[Littlest Hobo]

Yip i agree with a lot of that, football has been getting more and more expensive, eventually it prices itself out of more and more people every raise in price. And once you do that, and lose fans its very difficult to get them to come back regularly.

They will pick and choose their games, watch the tv ones on telly and Hibs and Scottish football are the losers.

Spot on mate.

I regard myself as a Hibs die hard, been following Hibs since way back in the early eighties. I haven't had much to shout about in all those years but have still enjoyed watching my football and being part of my local club.

If people like me are losing interest then God help us.

Have a look at this.http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/apr/11/bundesliga-premier-league

[Beefster]

No, it's more dependent on whether you want to believe the worst about Hibs or not. The figures were discussed at length on here and shown to be flawed but that doesn't stop them routinely being trotted out as fact.

They weren't really flawed. Folk just didn't understand what point the BBC were trying to make and took it that they meant that Hibs were the most expensive football ground to visit in all circumstances and irrespective of what extras you bought [or not].

[TornadoHibby]

That must be most clubs then mate as I certainly don't see many senior clubs making any money for their owners, not successful ones anyway.

Perhaps that is indeed the case then? :confused: :dunno:

Income not enough to cover operating costs and/or over-spending on or, funding from short term funding sources, under-utilised longer term capital assets = financial trouble for any business and football is no different.

The difficulty with football is that too many teams have achievement targets that their funding ability cannot match or underwrite and with imprudent financial management on top of that, I don't think it's a secret than most of the smaller clubs in the UK are simply surviving right now with many struggling to do even that!

[Lucius Apuleius]

Perhaps that is indeed the case then? :confused: :dunno:

Income not enough to cover operating costs and/or over-spending on or, funding from short term funding sources, under-utilised longer term capital assets = financial trouble for any business and football is no different.

The difficulty with football is that too many teams have achievement targets that their funding ability cannot match or underwrite and with imprudent financial management on top of that, I don't think it's a secret than most of the smaller clubs in the UK are simply surviving right now with many struggling to do even that!

Now all of this I totally agree with. My own, unpopular, view is that all businesses have to find a level within their working capital. Hibs do not have any more right to be a top club than the East Fife, Clyde, Queens Park, Third Lanark and all the other once top clubs. We will find a level and once we do people will decide whether they still go and support them or not.

[TornadoHibby]

Now all of this I totally agree with. My own, unpopular, view is that all businesses have to find a level within their working capital. Hibs do not have any more right to be a top club than the East Fife, Clyde, Queens Park, Third Lanark and all the other once top clubs. We will find a level and once we do people will decide whether they still go and support them or not.

I think that the Hibs situation may be different from this if STF received any benefit from the overall deal to buy Hibs out of receivership at the tiem of the "Mercer take-over bid" which, had the receivership not taken place, would have fallen into the club coffers! This has often been alluded to but I have no knowledge whether this actually happened or not. As I mentioned earlier, Straiton has been mentioned in despatches in that regard but may be a red herring?! Others, more aware of the background here may enlighten us with more informed comment and views.

At the same time, when ST holders have been supporting the club through thick and thin, they have had poor management appointments resulting in disastrous on field performances and results. These have turned a lot of supporters off from attending matches on a ST basis or even at all. In normal business situations, where this sort of scenario has arisen, the poorly performing management would most probably be removed by the owners and sufficient cash or resources provided to the incoming incumbents to allow them to ensure early resolution of the non performance issues at product level, i.e for Hibs that is, of course, the team as the largest income on a continuing operations basis would come from ticket sales I imagine.

That's why I think that STF should deal with the current situation in so far as the rationale noted in my second paragraph applies. Inactivity at owner level will only exacerbate the dropping numbers of ST sales at a time when they are needed. Ultimately, a well managed business should eventually be in a position to repay any shareholder "loans" once profitability is restored.

[NAE NOOKIE]

:top marks

I've been saying that for months until I became exhausted at the fact that a large number of posters on here seem to think that it's somehow the fans that need to sort the finances out and not those that ultimately reap any financial benefits that might arise from the club improving! :confused:

I cant speak for anybody else TH but dont believe for a second that because my stance on this matter is that the fans of our club need to step up at a difficult time and back the club as much as they can by buying STs or going to more games as walk ups, that I am absolving the board in any way of its responsibility to find ways of financing the club over and above the fans input.

In fact I have expressed a number of times on here my frustration that in over 20 years in possession of something he "never wanted to own" that STF with all of his business and social contacts has never been able to find someone ( or some group ) who would be not only willing to buy the club, but also willing to pump some money into it. Hells bells, you could vastly improve the prospects of any club in the SPL by putting in the amount of money it costs to buy and run two Man City players.

I appreciate and believe that he does not want the club to end up in the hands of a Mad Vlad or David Murray type character, but 20 years?

I also appreciate that there has been no word from SKY / ESPN regarding the TV deal. To some that is a sign that the situation might not be as bad as the clubs are making out .... but both of these companies are well aware of the current situation and must also be aware that a positive word from them would be of great benefit and comfort to the whole of Scottish football at this time ...... Why then the silence?

To me its a case of waiting as long as they can to see if the clubs will blink first and punt SEVCO back into at least Division 1 They will then be able to say that this was done with no pressure from them and therefore avoid any possible bad publicity. But because of their refusal to comment positively one way or another no club in the SPL can look to the next few years in the presumption that SKY / ESPN will put pen to paper on the new deal. Because of that their approach must be based on a worse case scenario, which like it or not means appealing to us to pull them through, at least in the short term.

If none of that means anything then there is still the fact that ( no matter what you think of them as custodians of their various clubs ) the people who run the clubs caved into fan pressure and gave us what we wanted, even though everybody knew what the possible financial consequences might be.

They cry was ..... do the right thing or we will stop going. Now the cry appears to be from some .. thanks for doing the right thing I really, really hope it works out for you ...... What? ... you want help? ..... Eh! ... nah sorry mate I'm a bit busy the noo ... good luck though.

[Eyrie]

I think that the Hibs situation may be different from this if STF received any benefit from the overall deal to buy Hibs out of receivership at the tiem of the "Mercer take-over bid" which, had the receivership not taken place, would have fallen into the club coffers! This has often been alluded to but I have no knowledge whether this actually happened or not. As I mentioned earlier, Straiton has been mentioned in despatches in that regard but may be a red herring?! Others, more aware of the background here may enlighten us with more informed comment and views.
Rings a bell with me as well. Think Simon Pia was digging into the story but that stopped when he left The Scotsman.

[matty_f]

Bovril, again :top marks: for your post. I think it's important that backing the single issue of appealling for more season tickets to be sold isn't confused with an approval of everything the board is doing or indeed has done.