Message from Our Chairman

[IWasThere2016]

There's a plan??? Since when?

[Beefster]

Can someone tell me why a carer gets a ST for the same price as a disabled person?

Really?

Because there may be many/some carers who are only going as a carer and may not care for the football that much. Charge £400 to allow folk to accompany a disabled person and not only will you lose money as carers don't bother but it may mean that some disabled people cannot go to the football.

I'm all for Hibs cracking down on ticket fraud but you're backing up the wrong tree, I'd have thought.

[Hiber-nation]

Good post. I've been saying a lot of the same things.

Yep, very good post - and agree with your views too Beefster.

I'm not even going to give the Board credit for at last engaging properly with the fans as they have had no choice. The fans are coming up with the ideas, the Board have been shown up as sadly lacking in certain areas and just totally inept in others.

[Captain Trips]

The reason we have less season ticket sales is simple, we are pish. Its not rocket science, the worse we ger the less people we get through the door.

Who's fault is this, in my opinion its those who are at the top. They pick managers who have not been up to the job, and in Calderclowns case, backed him when it was clear he was out of his depth, and didn't actually want to be in the job.

This is not something new, or exclusive to Hibs, crowds drop at every club when they play crap and lose games.

We have been on a downward slope for a few seasons now, and with that crowds are down. There's only so many times you can go to the well before it empty's, i think its time for the board to put a bit in now, its time for them to lead from the front.

How many times do they come to the rescue when we are struggling, perhaps they could find this money they always find when we are in trouble now, and have faith in this manager to spend it better than the previous incumbents?

A winning team will see crowds return, a struggling side wont. The team we currently have will struggle again this season, its clear from the non renewals the fans are not stumping up the cash, there's two scenarios here, more of the same, or STF puts a bit in and better payers are purchased, leading to hopefully better results = bigger crowds?

Or perhaps we will get lucky and every other club will be much weaker, we have caught up with them, and thats the plan?


That is the point and why I said that statement from club has probably maxed out just about everyone prepared to pay £400 with the thought of not much return, the club need to realise that maybe the 3000+ have other motivation in going to games, perhaps value for money for one.

[Gatecrasher]

I think even in a normal year 10,000 ST's is a bit ambitious but why not? Personally if we get half the 3,000 then we have done well in the circumstances but its obvious to see why RP would want the best possible financial position for hibs

I didnt realise a ST in the FF is £355, for those folk that think £405 is a stretch this could be an option, especially with the half now half later. :agree:

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/FeaturedContent/0,,10290~2853059,00.html

[Stevie Reid]

Exactly Carlsberg, his time is up.... It was up long ago.

The only way we are going to rally the masses is for him to go. I think that will be key to drive this club forward.

Not many business me will want a minority stake however, and perhaps our owner and Petries biggest fan should name his price.

If Rangers were worth £5.5M, it might not be out the reach of some :)


IMHO, if Petrie, who has pissed away £millions over the last 5 years was to step aside, then this plea for 3000 more ST holders would not be needed. Hibs fans would be queuing outside ER to sign up.

Respect for the honest appeal, particular the admission of "There are many reasons not to buy a Season Ticket." I hope we get the 3000 extra ST holder they say they need. But more importantly, I hope they repay that faith with sensible FOOTBALL decisions that improves the product on the park, shows ambition for the club and reverses the downward spiral THEY have had us on for 5 years.

I find the idea that thousands of Hibs fans would be queuing up outside ER to buy STs if we changed our chairman laughable.


:agree: I'm in the same boat.

But presently we're only able to stand on the sidelines, unable to contribute to the immediate problem in any meaningful way (unless we're willng to make a charitable donation. :cb)

I mentioned this on another thread but pre-paid Hibs expenditure cards could be the answer. The money on the card is useable for one season only on match tickets at ER or on club merchandise. What you haven't used on the card by 31 May the club keeps anyway. No incentives. Just a means of suporters committing to a minimum amout of spend with Hibs during the coming season.

Meantime strong incentives and benefits would still accrue to full ST holders, as that would remain the club's preference in terms of sales.

A pre-paid card scheme would enable more supporters to contribute to the cause at the start of the season than is currently the case.

Great idea, BEEJ.

[Phil MaGlass]

I renewed ages ago after vowing not to. Football is too expensive in Scotland and is driving fans away. Some of the suggestions being put forward here are excellent. But have draw backs. I like the top up card, which guarantees your seat and you can feel part of the club. A ST is not worth it unless you get to every home game. I missed 2/3 games every season but keep getting one to sit with my mates. But with a top up I could pay my money and still get to sit with my mates and pay for the games I go to but Hibs would lose out as I would not be paying for games I don't go to.

But there are many ST holders who use child/ student/oap/ disabled tickets fraudulently so this again is a source of income which Hibs could bring in if it was properly managed. Can someone tell me why a carer gets a ST for the same price as a disabled person? I personally think Scottish football just needs to adjust its self to the level we can afford. Or do something really radical like merging with the English leagues to have a more level playing field within the UK

Hope that was just a rush of blood to the head, I have done the same, not thinking things through properly beore I post

[johnrebus]

The reason we have less season ticket sales is simple, we are pish. Its not rocket science, the worse we ger the less people we get through the door.

Who's fault is this, in my opinion its those who are at the top. They pick managers who have not been up to the job, and in Calderclowns case, backed him when it was clear he was out of his depth, and didn't actually want to be in the job.

This is not something new, or exclusive to Hibs, crowds drop at every club when they play crap and lose games.

We have been on a downward slope for a few seasons now, and with that crowds are down. There's only so many times you can go to the well before it empty's, i think its time for the board to put a bit in now, its time for them to lead from the front.

How many times do they come to the rescue when we are struggling, perhaps they could find this money they always find when we are in trouble now, and have faith in this manager to spend it better than the previous incumbents?

A winning team will see crowds return, a struggling side wont. The team we currently have will struggle again this season, its clear from the non renewals the fans are not stumping up the cash, there's two scenarios here, more of the same, or STF puts a bit in and better payers are purchased, leading to hopefully better results = bigger crowds?

Or perhaps we will get lucky and every other club will be much weaker, we have caught up with them, and thats the plan?


Agree with all of this especially bit in bold.

When Mowbray came in we were not even a winning team all the time, but we were playing in a manner that people wanted to watch - that Hibs fans wanted to watch. That is all out the window now because there are so many things wrong at the club and we just want to see a win every couple of months or so and the dream of, 'fast flowing attacking football', is now a distant fond memory.

Never mind the Huns, our club is now so rotten that I would be happy to wipe the slate clean and start all over again at Leith Links in the East of Scotland league, that is how depressed I am right now about how we find ourselves.

Will not give Petrie so much as the steam of my pish until he is out of the door.


:boo hoo:

[GreenCastle]

Some good posts on here - we all have some blind faith in us but even that's been tested right now.

Bottom line - success (however you want to define that in Hibs terms - passing football / competitive team / winning games!) will bring fans back.

The issue I have like many on here is the fact that the fans - who have been extremely good over the last few years (considering how poor we have been) are the ones who deserve more - much more.

There have been some great ideas mentioned on here about how to bridge that connection with the fans - some excellent ideas how to get more people to contribute financially without doing so all at once. But the worrying thing is the board seem out of touch with the fans aren't trying anything different except the monthly plea on the website.

I give credit to those on this website who are actively trying to raise money for tickets but that shouldn't be there job. Hibs should be out there trying to entice fans back in a more proactive manner.

I've said before the fans need a connection with the club and bringing back McPake has helped as he's a real leader and someone we can hopefully look up to and build around for a few years. Hibs need to get into the community more and build bridges with the fans who have suffered over the years.

The team on the pitch still has quite a way to go - and this is the worrying. We knew last season we were short of players - we knew after the final we were short of players -we are still needing to bring in a minimum of 4 players to get into the top 6 let alone challenge for 2nd. We are building from the back which was much needed but the central midfield and up front could see us lacking any creativity unless replacements are brought it soon.

I have my season ticket this season - there is nothing more I would love than the stadium being full like the Pars game with the same atmosphere each week - but understand why many are sitting on the fence. However if this season we see no improvement and similar performances (and that performance against Hearts early in the season will be a real test of character) then Hibs / the board must be prepared for some serious pressure against them.

I was joking in a previous post to an extent about the catering/food at ER but seriously can we not sort this over priced poor quality food on offer - again this has been spoken about but again nothing seems to be done ? Notice a trend ?!

[Captain Trips]

I find the idea that thousands of Hibs fans would be queuing up outside ER to buy STs if we changed our chairman laughable.



Great idea, BEEJ.

I would agree, I am sure there are some who would then but again it probably be a small amount. I think the biggest portion of 3000 is wanting to see a good team and if we manage that it will likely be only noticable once season is well underway and too late to get ST.

I think RP can forget 3000 IMO and will be lucky if it is even 1000 this season anyway. Walk ups may increase though if it turns out we are doing well.

[steviehibsleith]

Like all Hibs fans we are in a recession and money and time is tight. The SPL has just lost one of the big attractions to its sell point - Rangers in Division 3. Yet nowhere do i see there will be a small reduction in Ticket price just simply now the Club needs you.

Games are at all hours and days of the week nowadays so blindly paying for a season ticket not knowing how many games i will be able to attend is not palatable.
In my 25 years of gong up to ER the standard of the football games has dropped.
Tell me players of flair or excitement that will feature at ER this season and im not just talking Hibs Players. The product isnt great but like many i still go up and even though i bump my gums i will always do so but there again im onll ay 10 minute walk to the stadium.

Fans who have cost of travel and more time consumming i think it is getting easier to just say sod it ill watch it on telly.

Wake up RP new ideas and realistic prices.

Fantstic idea to put money in to hibs and going to games when i can and Hibs can use it to structure better. Happily put £200 quid in Knowing ill justify that amount of games but im being honest last 2 seasons £355 - i wouldnt have got to that amount of games.

[Dave-O]

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7454/kitchz.jpg

[Littlest Hobo]

Statements should be getting made where it counts, on the park!

Until this happens then we will struggle to sell ST in big numbers.

You can talk about tv deals, games getting played on a Saturday but ultimately the talking should be done on the football park.

Build it, and they will come.

[matty_f]

Statements should be getting made where it counts, on the park!

Until this happens then we will struggle to sell ST in big numbers.

You can talk about tv deals, games getting played on a Saturday but ultimately the talking should be done on the football park.

Build it, and they will come.


How do you build it when you can't afford to?

[Andy74]

Statements should be getting made where it counts, on the park!

Until this happens then we will struggle to sell ST in big numbers.

You can talk about tv deals, games getting played on a Saturday but ultimately the talking should be done on the football park.

Build it, and they will come.

Are you getting the gist of the message? To rebuild as we'd like we don't have the cash unless we sell more STs than usual.

[blackpoolhibs]

Are you getting the gist of the message? To rebuild as we'd like we don't have the cash unless we sell more STs than usual.

We have not been able to rebuild with much higher season ticket sales, the wells dry. Time for Petrie to spend some of that money he always seems to find when we are in trouble NOW.

Then perhaps we will see those lapsed fans drifting back if results improve?

[matty_f]

We have not been able to rebuild with much higher season ticket sales, the wells dry. Time for Petrie to spend some of that money he always seems to find when we are in trouble NOW.

Then perhaps we will see those lapsed fans drifting back if results improve?
I think 2 years of losses means that the 'get out of trouble' well is also dry, hence the appeal for support.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think 2 years of losses means that the 'get out of trouble' well is also dry, hence the appeal for support.

Well Matty, its completely down to those at the top the wells dry, time to stop begging the fans for more money, and time to start looking closer to home for it.

Show us some leadership for a change Hibs, instead of blowing all our hard earned cash on duds, lets see STF put some in before the slump, and you never know, there might not be a slump and crowds rise because of that?

We look a poor side at this minute in time, and another year of struggling looks on the cards. 3000 more season ticket sales is just pie in the sky, its never going to happen. Its the old chicken and the egg scenario.

Fans wont part with their cash, because they have had enough pish. The club say they are skint because the fans are not buying season tickets.

The only options are, we stay pish and hope other teams drop in standard, or STF and Petrie start leading the club from the front.

[HibsMax]

Hibs fans need to dig deep to kickstart the process rather than hoping it will just happen on its own. We are the catalyst for change.

I understand that people are pissed off paying good money and not getting a return on the pitch BUT stopping going to games is not going to make things better. If Hibs fans really believe that LESS money will lead to a better team then perhaps Hibs should stop spending any money at all, maybe that will work?

EDIT : it would be really nice if we could get a little cash injection from STF but, well, we've been down that road before.

[BEEJ]

Hibs fans need to dig deep to kickstart the process rather than hoping it will just happen on its own. We are the catalyst for change.

I understand that people are pissed off paying good money and not getting a return on the pitch BUT stopping going to games is not going to make things better. If Hibs fans really believe that LESS money will lead to a better team then perhaps Hibs should stop spending any money at all, maybe that will work?

EDIT : it would be really nice if we could get a little cash injection from STF but, well, we've been down that road before.
Max, if you can put Hibs' losses in both this financial year (ending in 11 days time) and last year down simply to absentee fans who carelessly neglected their responsibilities to the club, then all this rings true and pleas for the supporters to come back are well placed.

But if you believe that these financial losses are in fact more attributable to poor choices and decisions taken both at Board and at club management level, then such pleas are more likely to fall on deaf ears.

If the Board had confidence in its choices and decision making being sufficient to turn our massively under-performing side into one competing next season for the top four in the SPL, then they might blink first and fund a couple of encouraging signings in the knoweldge that the supporters would return to ER by way of walk-up tickets, thereby covering such an 'investment'.

Unfortunately they don't want to take on that risk. Therefore in order to establish 'certainty' for PF's player budget (the word used yesterday by RP in his interview) they're calling on the supporters to commit, in so doing effectively carrying the risk that this season will turn out like the previous two.

[Littlest Hobo]

Team chemistry can go a long way, it's not all about money.

St Johnston, Motherwell and Killie where all fantastic to watch last season.

If we could just get a group of players who can entertain, I don't mind if they win all the time, although that would be nice.

Something that resembles a football team would be nice.

[blackpoolhibs]

Max, if you can put Hibs' losses in both this financial year (ending in 11 days time) and last year down simply to absentee fans who carelessly neglected their responsibilities to the club, then all this rings true and pleas for the supporters to come back are well placed.

But if you believe that these financial losses are in fact more attributable to poor choices and decisions taken both at Board and at club management level, then such pleas are more likely to fall on deaf ears.

If the Board had confidence in its choices and decision making being sufficient to turn our massively under-performing side into one competing next season for the top four in the SPL, then they might blink first and fund a couple of encouraging signings in the knoweldge that the supporters would return to ER by way of walk-up tickets, thereby covering such an 'investment'.

Unfortunately they don't want to take on that risk. Therefore in order to establish 'certainty' for PF's player budget (the word used yesterday by RP in his interview) they're calling on the supporters to commit, in so doing effectively carrying the risk that this season will turn out like the previous two.

:agree: Except people have actually stopped going now, and see Petrie as the reason the clubs in the position its in. Having his face on the telly begging for 3000 more to buy season tickets, does not i'd imagine impress those who have stopped going?

I think they have to show us who's in charge now, lets see them take a chance, lets see the colour of their money first, its down to them we are in this sheite.

[NAE NOOKIE]

There is no doubt that since the 2007 League Cup final its been a downward spiral which came to its inevitable conclusion at Hampden on the 19th of May ..... Not inevitable that the Yams would hump us, but that when it came to the crunch our failings as a club would result in a dismal failure when it really mattered, no matter the opposition. The fact that this disaster was not magnified 100 fold by relegation was due to random chance ... I.E. by some miracle there was a club in the SPL who were worse than us ... as good a reason for not letting them back in as club 12 as I can imagine by the way.

The people who must take the blame for this are those who run the club. That they have the good of the club at heart is not in doubt, but for me that makes their failings all the worse because they cant use disinterest or apathy as an excuse. There have been a number of avoidable mistakes, of which not getting shot of Calderwood the second he refused to commit to the club was the most obvious.

You cant totally blame the board for the failings of various managers because no matter who you appoint you take a chance to a certain degree .... but they have followed a formula for a number of years now on the back of one managers success ( Mowbray ) but forgetting at the same time that he had at his disposal the best bunch of players this club has had since the 70s. IMO should Pat Fenlon fail this formula should be binned.

The new East stand should have been 5,000 not over 6'000 and much closer to the pitch ... nothing to be done about that now, but it has resulted in something which should have improved the atmosphere at ER taking away from it.

All of this stuff needs to be addressed and in the fullness of time lets hope it will be .... for instance a standing terrace in the FF or some such idea.

But the time has now come for us to ensure that our club is still around as a full time professional football club. Not just us but the fans of every club .. because it doesnt matter if we weather the storm if most of the other clubs end up bust or part time.

Thats what this is about .... the game being saved by the fans for the fans.

If your choice is between keeping Hibs ( and Scottish Football ) going till the storm passes or showing your displeasure at STF, RP, HIBS THE SFA or whowever ... then fine. But if the second option is your main one lets hope there is somebody around to care that you took it once the dust settles.

GGTTH

[HibsMax]

Max, if you can put Hibs' losses in both this financial year (ending in 11 days time) and last year down simply to absentee fans who carelessly neglected their responsibilities to the club, then all this rings true and pleas for the supporters to come back are well placed.

But if you believe that these financial losses are in fact more attributable to poor choices and decisions taken both at Board and at club management level, then such pleas are more likely to fall on deaf ears.

If the Board had confidence in its choices and decision making being sufficient to turn our massively under-performing side into one competing next season for the top four in the SPL, then they might blink first and fund a couple of encouraging signings in the knoweldge that the supporters would return to ER by way of walk-up tickets, thereby covering such an 'investment'.

Unfortunately they don't want to take on that risk. Therefore in order to establish 'certainty' for PF's player budget (the word used yesterday by RP in his interview) they're calling on the supporters to commit, in so doing effectively carrying the risk that this season will turn out like the previous two.

I'm not actually attributing anything to anyone, I'm just making a general statement that Hibs fans can make a difference.

The fans are certainly not to blame for anything that happens on the pitch, unless we're talking about the odd pie. :)

I made the point in another thread that WE are Hibs, nobody else. It would seem a shame for us to shoot ourselves in the foot because of the current custodians of the Club.

How about attacking this from two fronts :
1. buy a season ticket and back the Club,
2. organise some sort of protest / demonstration to get the the current board ousted, if that's what you want (not YOU personally).

It's unfortunate that some people are chosing to demonstrate in a manner that hurts the club financially and that's not good for anyone.

[Craig_in_Prague]

so we need 9k ST holders to have a half chance of competing with motherwell.. st johnstone or the likes?
i have not read the 10 pages+ here .. so apologies if i have mis-understood.

or does 3k more STs mean we could break even on the P&L?

[Steve-O]

a
I think even in a normal year 10,000 ST's is a bit ambitious but why not? Personally if we get half the 3,000 then we have done well in the circumstances but its obvious to see why RP would want the best possible financial position for hibs

I didnt realise a ST in the FF is £355, for those folk that think £405 is a stretch this could be an option, especially with the half now half later. :agree:

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/FeaturedContent/0,,10290~2853059,00.html

The East should be cheapest IMO. Why it's the same as the West I will never know. £405 is outrageous if we're being honest and it is just too easy to miss a game or two and actually LOSE money on your ticket. No point getting one to guarantee tickets for games either - easy enough to get one anyway as the stadium is more than half empty!

The standard 'season ticket' is not what it used to be and more innovative thinking is required.

[Beefster]

How do you build it when you can't afford to?


Are you getting the gist of the message? To rebuild as we'd like we don't have the cash unless we sell more STs than usual.

Is posting in pairs another Internet craze that I've missed?


so we need 9k ST holders to have a half chance of competing with motherwell.. st johnstone or the likes?
i have not read the 10 pages+ here .. so apologies if i have mis-understood.

or does 3k more STs mean we could break even on the P&L?

We need significantly more STs holders than 75% of the SPL just so that we can compete with a small subset of that 75% on the pitch. It's the way things work in the Hibs universe. It's like me paying £1m for my two-bedroom mid-terrace when the boy up the road got a 7-bedroom mansion for £200k.

[matty_f]

Is posting in pairs another Internet craze that I've missed?



We need significantly more STs holders than 75% of the SPL just so that we can compete with a small subset of that 75% on the pitch. It's the way things work in the Hibs universe. It's like me paying £1m for my two-bedroom mid-terrace when the boy up the road got a 7-bedroom mansion for £200k.

:faf:

[Steve-O]

Is posting in pairs another Internet craze that I've missed?



We need significantly more STs holders than 75% of the SPL just so that we can compete with a small subset of that 75% on the pitch. It's the way things work in the Hibs universe. It's like me paying £1m for my two-bedroom mid-terrace when the boy up the road got a 7-bedroom mansion for £200k.

Exaxtly. More Petrie pish talk.

[Pete]

Before this thread turns into a 10 page 'bickering fest' over what the Rod Petrie has done wrong, what the club have done wrong etc and why they aren't getting my money

I've only got as far as your post on the first page and haven't read anything else yet....but I bet this is exactly what has happened!:greengrin

[muirhousehibby]

How about he cuts the season ticket prices.rather than having empty seats how about giving fans a better value for money deal on the season tickets and perhaps fill more seats. More fans backing the team that way too as we'd have a better turnout.surely if all season tickets were 280 you'd get nearly a full stadium. We should have it like down south,know ST then you'll more than likely miss out. Murder trying to buy a ticket for old traffors etc. Thats the way it should be.

[steakbake]

I'm one of the 3000 who haven't renewed.

I'll be a walk-up fan this year and pick the games. Might go see a bit more juniors footie as well.

Why get a season ticket when you're guaranteed a seat? Also if you miss just one game, the advantage of a ST is over.

Needs to be much more incentive than a plea from Petrie.

[joe breezy]

I've joined the Hibernians scheme

It was the only membership available for people that can't attend most matches

[AlbertK86]

Is ER still the dearest place to watch football in Scotland ?

[Lucius Apuleius]

Is ER still the dearest place to watch football in Scotland ?

Depends who they are playing, what seats you are sitting in and whether you are using the stadium caterers.

Oh, and whether you are buying a programme or not.

[Onion]

I find the idea that thousands of Hibs fans would be queuing up outside ER to buy STs if we changed our chairman laughable.



Great idea, BEEJ.

Didn't think I'd have to embellish this but .....Clearly the assumed consequence is that he is replaced with someone who is able to demonstrate an ounce of ambition for the club (rather than seeing mediocrity as success), has fresh ideas for generating revenue, can actually engage with supporters (other than just when he needs money), doesn't undermine his manager and recognises and learns from mistakes. There's no guarantee we'll get any of that - of course - but as long as Petrie and his ilk are at the helm Hibs will continue to be a place where under-performnce at all levels is quite acceptable. The culture of the club needs to change and that needs to start at the top.

[Stevie Reid]

Didn't think I'd have to embellish this but .....Clearly the assumed consequence is that he is replaced with someone who is able to demonstrate an ounce of ambition for the club (rather than seeing mediocrity as success), has fresh ideas for generating revenue, can actually engage with supporters (other than just when he needs money), doesn't undermine his manager and recognises and learns from mistakes. There's no guarantee we'll get any of that - of course - but as long as Petrie and his ilk are at the helm Hibs will continue to be a place where under-performnce at all levels is quite acceptable. The culture of the club needs to change and that needs to start at the top.

All very well, no one would be against that - but it's a massive assumption, and a very big 'if'.

[Sumner]

Didn't think I'd have to embellish this but .....Clearly the assumed consequence is that he is replaced with someone who is able to demonstrate an ounce of ambition for the club (rather than seeing mediocrity as success), has fresh ideas for generating revenue, can actually engage with supporters (other than just when he needs money), doesn't undermine his manager and recognises and learns from mistakes. There's no guarantee we'll get any of that - of course - but as long as Petrie and his ilk are at the helm Hibs will continue to be a place where under-performnce at all levels is quite acceptable. The culture of the club needs to change and that needs to start at the top.

:top marks

.. I would only add, ".. and shave off the awful tache.."

[HibsMax]

I'm one of the 3000 who haven't renewed.

I'll be a walk-up fan this year and pick the games. Might go see a bit more juniors footie as well.

Why get a season ticket when you're guaranteed a seat? Also if you miss just one game, the advantage of a ST is over.

Needs to be much more incentive than a plea from Petrie.

I know I am quoting you but I am not singling you out specifically. I've read this same thing over and over again. To me buying a season ticket is all about securing a seat for every game of the season, not as a way to save money. Of course, with us not getting close to selling out you don't need a season ticket so the advantage that it does offer is non-existent.

Truth be told, nobody needs to buy a season ticket and everyone would still get into the game....so why does anyone buy one? I would say the primary reason for buying a season ticket for Hibs is to offer financial support up front. I wouldn't buy one with the main reason being saving money.

[JohnStephens91]

If a season ticket was say £350 would it be any more likely that the 3000 extra Petrie is looking for will be sold? I doubt it because many people on here have been shifting the goalposts on whether or not they'd get a season ticket. No matter what the price is I'd say we would struggle to sell them.

Anyway I still believe the season ticket price should be reduced all across the board, except the student, OAP and childrens as they are fairly priced and one is available for £95, which I snapped up being a poor student. £405 is a ridiculous sum of money to even tempt fans into purchasing a season ticket for the first time in years.

[dp00]

I'm one of the 3000 who haven't renewed.

I'll be a walk-up fan this year and pick the games. Might go see a bit more juniors footie as well.

Why get a season ticket when you're guaranteed a seat? Also if you miss just one game, the advantage of a ST is over.

Needs to be much more incentive than a plea from Petrie.

Would the incentive not be supporting your club ? A club which has done everything the fans asked it to over the summer period ?

[brydekirk]

It's like giving money to a drunk, to piss against a wall

The ST sales go to PF not Petrie.

[blackpoolhibs]

The ST sales go to PF not Petrie.

Who picked Fenlon, Calderwood, Hughes?

[jonty]

Who picked Fenlon, Calderwood, Hughes?

The same board who picked Mowbray and Collins?

[blackpoolhibs]

The same board who picked Mowbray and Collins?

Exactly, so they have proved they can pick a decent manager now and again. So when they see a complete duff like Calderclown, who is not interested in the club, or even being at the club, why persist in keeping him to the COMPLETE DETRIMENT of the club? We are in this situation because of that.

[jonty]

Exactly, so they have proved they can pick a decent manager now and again. So when they see a complete duff like Calderclown, who is not interested in the club, or even being at the club, why persist in keeping him to the COMPLETE DETRIMENT of the club? We are in this situation because of that.
Exactly - it's the manager that makes the difference, not the board.

They havent improved things over the last couple of decades
http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?234797-todays-games-(Dunfermline-3-0-Aberdeen)&p=3200814&viewfull=1#post3200814

I agree that we're worse off because we once stuck with a manager, where (IMO) we were too hasty to get rid of the previous ones. Rock, meet hard place.

On a positive note, the vibes from PF are better than those from CC and I'm actually looking forward to this season.

[blackpoolhibs]

Exactly - it's the manager that makes the difference, not the board.

They havent improved things over the last couple of decades
http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?234797-todays-games-(Dunfermline-3-0-Aberdeen)&p=3200814&viewfull=1#post3200814

I agree that we're worse off because we once stuck with a manager, where (IMO) we were too hasty to get rid of the previous ones. Rock, meet hard place.

On a positive note, the vibes from PF are better than those from CC and I'm actually looking forward to this season.

Petrie's failure last season to accept whatever was offered for Calderclown was a disgrace. Every man woman and dog knew he did not want to be at the club.

For that alone Petrie deserves a good slap.

His begging now to those fans he pissed off is embarrassing. He better hope the vibes you are feeling about Fenlon are true, if not whats next, petrie making personal calls to our front door with a bucket for donations?

[jonty]

Petrie's failure last season to accept whatever was offered for Calderclown was a disgrace. Every man woman and dog knew he did not want to be at the club.

For that alone Petrie deserves a good slap.

His begging now to those fans he pissed off is embarrassing. He better hope the vibes you are feeling about Fenlon are true, if not whats next, petrie making personal calls to our front door with a bucket for donations?
allegedly offered :wink:

IMO the board tried a long term strategy of playing out a managers long term plan. It just happened to be a couple of managers too late.

Fans support makes the club tick over. without fans, the club is nothing - that hasnt changed. Over the past couple of years we've hit a double-dip recession, football has been pish, times are hard. Hibs have over-spent on the team trying to get fans backand its not worked.

They'll try again this year and no doubt we'll end up making a loss this year too.

As for PF - the managers we've had, on paper, looked great signings. for one reason or another they havent worked out. it's about time we got a break and our manager has a good season or two.

[steakbake]

Would the incentive not be supporting your club ? A club which has done everything the fans asked it to over the summer period ?

I support Hibs. I have their strips, scarves, have had season tickets, have a mountain of programmes and been a walk up fan - all for over 20 years.

[IWasThere2016]

I'm one of the 3000 who haven't renewed.

I'll be a walk-up fan this year and pick the games. Might go see a bit more juniors footie as well.

Why get a season ticket when you're guaranteed a seat? Also if you miss just one game, the advantage of a ST is over.

Needs to be much more incentive than a plea from Petrie.

Well said. Which is why the idea pre-paid purchase of tickets/merchandise is the best idea on here. It commits more fans to the club, and gives the club more income/certainty of income than the present arrangements.

[virtualhibby]

The issue with the otherwise excellent idea of the card scheme is will it damage existing ST sales? They would need to make it more attractive to be a ST buyer who commits to all games than it is today. They could also limit the card users to use the credit for games only and offer some incentive such as 2nd dibs on cup tickets to sell a load of them as well.

Sent from the commode in my listening room.

[Beefster]

Well said. Which is why the idea pre-paid purchase of tickets/merchandise is the best idea on here. It commits more fans to the club, and gives the club more income/certainty of income than the present arrangements.

It seems like a great idea at first glance but would throw up masses of issues immediately and I suspect may have a negative impact on income as masses of ST holders decide to give the club less money.

I'm a big advocate of the club being less conservative and trying new things out but, at the very least, they have to be sure that anything introduced won't have a negative impact on existing income. Stuff like membership schemes, family marketing etc is a no-brainer - making it easier to pick and choose games whilst guaranteeing a seat isn't so clear-cut IMHO.

[Lucius Apuleius]

We live in hard and difficult times. Most people cannot afford STs in the current climate. Most people bought their STs to guarantee themselves a seat for Hibs games. This is no longer necessary due to the building of the East (still the correct decision IMO) where people can just roll up and PATG and guarantee themselves a seat roughly where they would have wanted one anyway. As has been alluded to many times, miss one game and you are on a loss. Few years ago that was an acceptable loss. In this day and age it is not for most people. Combine this with the perceived "drop" in standards and you have less people willing to commit to a ST. It really is a chicken and egg scenario (although a recent episode of Eggheads actually proved the chicken came first). I decided to restart a ST this year because of the club's actions during the close season over der hun situation. I am lucky, missing a few games does not worry me as I know I am giving something back to the club. That is not meant as Uberfannish by the way an' that. We all have to do what we can do. If that means you do not buy a ST, so be it, it makes you no less a supporter. What really does piss me off big time at the minute is this feckn board where absolutely everything comes down to one or the other. Grey areas are allowed. Not everything is black and white.

[jacomo]

We live in hard and difficult times. Most people cannot afford STs in the current climate. Most people bought their STs to guarantee themselves a seat for Hibs games. This is no longer necessary due to the building of the East (still the correct decision IMO) where people can just roll up and PATG and guarantee themselves a seat roughly where they would have wanted one anyway. As has been alluded to many times, miss one game and you are on a loss. Few years ago that was an acceptable loss. In this day and age it is not for most people. Combine this with the perceived "drop" in standards and you have less people willing to commit to a ST. It really is a chicken and egg scenario (although a recent episode of Eggheads actually proved the chicken came first). I decided to restart a ST this year because of the club's actions during the close season over der hun situation. I am lucky, missing a few games does not worry me as I know I am giving something back to the club. That is not meant as Uberfannish by the way an' that. We all have to do what we can do. If that means you do not buy a ST, so be it, it makes you no less a supporter. What really does piss me off big time at the minute is this feckn board where absolutely everything comes down to one or the other. Grey areas are allowed. Not everything is black and white.

Rubbish - it was clearly the egg.

Once upon a time there was a not-quite-a-chicken, which laid an egg. The egg had a gene mutation and out hatched a chicken.

[jacomo]

Oh, and off-topic (and probably repeating others on this thread), but the Hibs TV interviewer is terrible. Can't we do better than this?

[Lucius Apuleius]

Rubbish - it was clearly the egg.

Once upon a time there was a not-quite-a-chicken, which laid an egg. The egg had a gene mutation and out hatched a chicken.

You would have to argue that with the Eggheads I am afraid. Their theory was similar but to have the mutation we have now it must have come from the chicken, ergo the chicken was first. Bunch of pretentious assholes in my opinion but seeing as I am just a cook in suit as I was once described, who am I to argue? :greengrin Reckon we need one of the really really intelligent Hibbies to get to the bottom of that. maybe have to go to the Bounce for that though :greengrin

[IWasThere2016]

It seems like a great idea at first glance but would throw up masses of issues immediately and I suspect may have a negative impact on income as masses of ST holders decide to give the club less money.

I'm a big advocate of the club being less conservative and trying new things out but, at the very least, they have to be sure that anything introduced won't have a negative impact on existing income. Stuff like membership schemes, family marketing etc is a no-brainer - making it easier to pick and choose games whilst guaranteeing a seat isn't so clear-cut IMHO.

That's only if you believe STs are properly priced, and holders are properly incentivised :wink:

[Caversham Green]

You would have to argue that with the Eggheads I am afraid. Their theory was similar but to have the mutation we have now it must have come from the chicken, ergo the chicken was first. Bunch of pretentious assholes in my opinion but seeing as I am just a cook in suit as I was once described, who am I to argue? :greengrin Reckon we need one of the really really intelligent Hibbies to get to the bottom of that. maybe have to go to the Bounce for that though :greengrin

It was actually QI rather than Eggheads, and their conclusion was that the egg came first.

Dinosaurs laid eggs and evolved into chickens, therefore there were eggs before there were chickens.

Spot on about the pretentious asshole bit though.

[Andy74]

That's only if you believe STs are properly priced, and holders are properly incentivised :wink:

And your interest in this is what exactly???

[Lucius Apuleius]

It was actually QI rather than Eggheads, and their conclusion was that the egg came first.

Dinosaurs laid eggs and evolved into chickens, therefore there were eggs before there were chickens.

Spot on about the pretentious asshole bit though.

Not the one I saw Cav. Definitely the Egghead people and the chicken. Just shows even pretentious assholes cannae agree. :greengrin

[Caversham Green]

Not the one I saw Cav. Definitely the Egghead people and the chicken. Just shows even pretentious assholes cannae agree. :greengrin

You sure? QI is the one with Stephen Fry and some lesser pretentious assholes. Eggheads is a proper quiz with a team of ordinary people taking on a team of pretentious assholes. I can't see how the chicken/egg debate would happen on Eggheads.

[Lucius Apuleius]

You sure? QI is the one with Stephen Fry and some lesser pretentious assholes. Eggheads is a proper quiz with a team of ordinary people taking on a team of pretentious assholes. I can't see how the chicken/egg debate would happen on Eggheads.

Pretty Positive. I don't usually watch Eggheads and cannot for the life of me remember why I was watching it this time. I do however watch QI quite frequently. It was not an actual question to the chief pretentious asshole, it was at the end of the show and it came up in discussion.

[IWasThere2016]

And your interest in this is what exactly???

None of course.

[Andy74]

None of course. .

Sorry, there should have been a smiley as it was intended to be some light hearted ribbing, but come on, you aren't going to buy a season ticket anyway so pricing and incentives would have little to do with it.

[IWasThere2016]

Sorry, there should have been a smiley as it was intended to be some light hearted ribbing, but come on, you aren't going to buy a season ticket anyway so pricing and incentives would have little to do with it.

You are correct, I have no need for a ST. Unless I ever move to Auld Reekie I never will. Also I prefer - always have and will - away games.

However, I would be interested in a pre-paid membership/ER ticket/merchandise deal. Thus helping the Hibs - and upfront. But such a deal would need to compliment and not compromise STs. ST holders must be the priority with better incentives/rewards etc. Particularly as Hibs have greater a situation where supply > demand (and will be so for the forseeable). The current offer is not good enough IMHO - what is it, miss two games and you lose out?

Can you ask at the next meeting for a breakdown in the numbers of STs into Adults, Seniors and Juniors please?

[matty_f]

You are correct, I have no need for a ST. Unless I ever move to Auld Reekie I never will. Also I prefer - always have and will - away games.

However, I would be interested in a pre-paid membership/ER ticket/merchandise deal. Thus helping the Hibs - and upfront. But such a deal would need to compliment and not compromise STs. ST holders must be the priority with better incentives/rewards etc. Particularly as Hibs have greater a situation where supply > demand (and will be so for the forseeable). The current offer is not good enough IMHO - what is it, miss two games and you lose out?

Can you ask at the next meeting for a breakdown in the numbers of STs into Adults, Seniors and Juniors please?

Depends on how much of the offers you take up, and when you buy it.

I took an Early Bird season ticket on the payment plan, so I get to spread the cost over the season for tickets for me and the boy.

I also got an extra two cup final tickets guaranteed, so no queuing or worrying about whether I'd have enough for my party to go.

I get to take someone to the Celtc game for free, so this means either Mrs Matty or my dad can come along and save £28(ish) in doing so. If there's a replacement for the Rangers game that was offered then it takes the saving to a potential £56. £112 if the boy's ticket gets the same.

On top of that, I bought away shirts for me and the boy, which meant that when the home top came out I could pick that up for both of us free, savings something like another £70.

My own season ticket was also cheaper because I was buying with my son's, so there was a saving of £25 on my ticket, plus £60 on my son's.

If we get drawn at home for say 2 cup games, because the cup top up was included in the Early Bird, there's another potential £44 for me, and £30 for the boy.

In total, my outlay for the season tickets cost me £490 (for me and the boy.)

A quick tally up for the savings above is £341, which means that effectively the season tickets have cost me £149 for both of us (£74.50 each!)

I'm sorry, but that is exceptional value!

[Stevie Reid]

Depends on how much of the offers you take up, and when you buy it.

I took an Early Bird season ticket on the payment plan, so I get to spread the cost over the season for tickets for me and the boy.

I also got an extra two cup final tickets guaranteed, so no queuing or worrying about whether I'd have enough for my party to go.

I get to take someone to the Celtc game for free, so this means either Mrs Matty or my dad can come along and save £28(ish) in doing so. If there's a replacement for the Rangers game that was offered then it takes the saving to a potential £56. £112 if the boy's ticket gets the same.

On top of that, I bought away shirts for me and the boy, which meant that when the home top came out I could pick that up for both of us free, savings something like another £70.

My own season ticket was also cheaper because I was buying with my son's, so there was a saving of £25 on my ticket, plus £60 on my son's.

If we get drawn at home for say 2 cup games, because the cup top up was included in the Early Bird, there's another potential £44 for me, and £30 for the boy.

In total, my outlay for the season tickets cost me £490 (for me and the boy.)

A quick tally up for the savings above is £341, which means that effectively the season tickets have cost me £149 for both of us (£74.50 each!)

I'm sorry, but that is exceptional value!

:agree:

I don't buy my ST for the incentives, but when you break it down like that, it's hugely impressive.

Depends on how hard people want to look I suppose.

[IWasThere2016]

Depends on how much of the offers you take up, and when you buy it.

I took an Early Bird season ticket on the payment plan, so I get to spread the cost over the season for tickets for me and the boy.

I also got an extra two cup final tickets guaranteed, so no queuing or worrying about whether I'd have enough for my party to go.

I get to take someone to the Celtc game for free, so this means either Mrs Matty or my dad can come along and save £28(ish) in doing so. If there's a replacement for the Rangers game that was offered then it takes the saving to a potential £56. £112 if the boy's ticket gets the same.

On top of that, I bought away shirts for me and the boy, which meant that when the home top came out I could pick that up for both of us free, savings something like another £70.

My own season ticket was also cheaper because I was buying with my son's, so there was a saving of £25 on my ticket, plus £60 on my son's.

If we get drawn at home for say 2 cup games, because the cup top up was included in the Early Bird, there's another potential £44 for me, and £30 for the boy.

In total, my outlay for the season tickets cost me £490 (for me and the boy.)

A quick tally up for the savings above is £341, which means that effectively the season tickets have cost me £149 for both of us (£74.50 each!)

I'm sorry, but that is exceptional value!


Matty - those circumstances are not universal .. and some of it is happenstance eg cup games, SC final etc. and although some of the benefits are over two seasons there is value therein.

[IWasThere2016]

:agree:

I don't buy my ST for the incentives, but when you break it down like that, it's hugely impressive.

Depends on how hard people want to look I suppose.

Meaning?

[matty_f]

Matty - those circumstances are not universal .. and some of it is happenstance eg cup games, SC final etc. and although some of the benefits are over two seasons there is value therein.

Fair enough, I might not get any cup games, and there was no financial benefit on the cup final tickets anyway. I don't think I'm anything other than a typical supporter though so I would think a lot of the savings/benefits illustrated would be enjoyed by a good portion of the support. As with practically any scheme, it won't benefit everyone though.

Which of the benefits were over two seasons?

[IWasThere2016]

Fair enough, I might not get any cup games, and there was no financial benefit on the cup final tickets anyway. I don't think I'm anything other than a typical supporter though so I would think a lot of the savings/benefits illustrated would be enjoyed by a good portion of the support. As with practically any scheme, it won't benefit everyone though.

Which of the benefits were over two seasons?

The SC final was not this season .. the new top is

[Saorsa]

:agree:

I don't buy my ST for the incentives, but when you break it down like that, it's hugely impressive.

Depends on how hard people want to look I suppose.It also depends on what if any of those incentives actually happen tae be of any use tae a particular person or not. Like you, I dinnae buy for incentives but if I wisnae going tae renew there's no really anything there that would necessarily change my mind TBH. Then again if I wisnae going tae renew I doubt anything would......



































.....unless it was a half price ticket :greengrin

[matty_f]

The SC final was not this season .. the new top is

Ah, but it will also guarantee my ticket for this season's final, should we make it again. (Well, we can dream!)

[Big Frank]

Depends on how much of the offers you take up, and when you buy it.

I took an Early Bird season ticket on the payment plan, so I get to spread the cost over the season for tickets for me and the boy.

I also got an extra two cup final tickets guaranteed, so no queuing or worrying about whether I'd have enough for my party to go.

I get to take someone to the Celtc game for free, so this means either Mrs Matty or my dad can come along and save £28(ish) in doing so. If there's a replacement for the Rangers game that was offered then it takes the saving to a potential £56. £112 if the boy's ticket gets the same.

On top of that, I bought away shirts for me and the boy, which meant that when the home top came out I could pick that up for both of us free, savings something like another £70.

My own season ticket was also cheaper because I was buying with my son's, so there was a saving of £25 on my ticket, plus £60 on my son's.

If we get drawn at home for say 2 cup games, because the cup top up was included in the Early Bird, there's another potential £44 for me, and £30 for the boy.

In total, my outlay for the season tickets cost me £490 (for me and the boy.)

A quick tally up for the savings above is £341, which means that effectively the season tickets have cost me £149 for both of us (£74.50 each!)

I'm sorry, but that is exceptional value!

The season ticket didn't cost you £149 !

The potential saving of £112 for the OF matches doesnt "save" the season ticket holder anything (unless the person the ST gives the "free" to pays the ST the cost of the ticket!).

There is also the potential that there will be no home games for your cup top up :wink: ( tho' moot, it used to be free back in the day) removing another £74 from your "savings".

Not going to argue re the bogof for the Hibernian tops - or buying the ticket with your son making it cheaper for you - well done to the club.

(....but many a ST holder does not wear football tops ).

Unfortunately, Hibernians' season tickets are (way) too pricey.

[matty_f]

The season ticket didn't cost you £149 !

The potential saving of £112 for the OF matches doesnt "save" the season ticket holder anything (unless the person the ST gives the "free" to pays the ST the cost of the ticket!).

There is also the potential that there will be no home games for your cup top up :wink: ( tho' moot, it used to be free back in the day) removing another £74 from your "savings".

Not going to argue re the bogof for the Hibernian tops - or buying the ticket with your son making it cheaper for you - well done to the club.

(....but many a ST holder does not wear football tops ).

Unfortunately, Hibernians' season tickets are (way) too pricey.

Equally we might get 3 or 4 home cup games this season. We had 2 last season (IIRC) so I used that as a benchmark.

It's a semantic arguement about the saving with the Celtc game, I'm getting a £28 ticket for nothing to give to someone else. I'll take that as a saving, thank you very much. Of course, if you want to dig your heels in to keep an arguement that there's not good value in having a season ticket then fair enough, there isn't a breakdown of savings out there that will change your mind.

[HFC 0-7]

Equally we might get 3 or 4 home cup games this season. We had 2 last season (IIRC) so I used that as a benchmark.

It's a semantic arguement about the saving with the Celtc game, I'm getting a £28 ticket for nothing to give to someone else. I'll take that as a saving, thank you very much. Of course, if you want to dig your heels in to keep an arguement that there's not good value in having a season ticket then fair enough, there isn't a breakdown of savings out there that will change your mind.

I am not sure if the club could do this or not, but could they not start looking at something now for future season ticket sales where they get people to sign an agreement to buy a season ticket at a reduced price but only if X amount of people sign up to it. For example, the club could say now, if we get 10,000 fans to sign an agreement to buy a season ticket next year we would sell them to them for £250. It also has more potential to increase other revenue streams (catering, merchandise etc) not to mention having more fans in the stadium to cheer the team on cant be a bad thing.

[matty_f]

I am not sure if the club could do this or not, but could they not start looking at something now for future season ticket sales where they get people to sign an agreement to buy a season ticket at a reduced price but only if X amount of people sign up to it. For example, the club could say now, if we get 10,000 fans to sign an agreement to buy a season ticket next year we would sell them to them for £250. It also has more potential to increase other revenue streams (catering, merchandise etc) not to mention having more fans in the stadium to cheer the team on cant be a bad thing.

I think there's merit in that, to be honest. I also like the idea that the more people buy them, the lower the price you pay for them is.

[Big Frank]

Equally we might get 3 or 4 home cup games this season. We had 2 last season (IIRC) so I used that as a benchmark.

It's a semantic arguement about the saving with the Celtc game, I'm getting a £28 ticket for nothing to give to someone else. I'll take that as a saving, thank you very much. Of course, if you want to dig your heels in to keep an arguement that there's not good value in having a season ticket then fair enough, there isn't a breakdown of savings out there that will change your mind.


Whatever way you dress it up matty, ST holders dont actually save on the free ticket. I think we all agree the ST prices are heavy at ER, and if for some reason a person missed 2 games, any benefit goes oot the windae. Hibernian are to be commended that if you pay for a top they will give you another etc... but your spraff about exceptional value is at best economical and at worst guff.

[matty_f]

Whatever way you dress it up matty, ST holders dont actually save on the free ticket. I think we all agree the ST prices are heavy at ER, and if for some reason a person missed 2 games, any benefit goes oot the windae. Hibernian are to be commended that if you pay for a top they will give you another etc... but your spraff about exceptional value is at best economical and at worst guff.
Will need to agree to disagree without calling your post guff.

[Big Frank]

Will need to agree to disagree without calling your post guff.

aye, to be fair whether your post was guff or not, (it was :wink:), there was nae need for me to say it.

So apologies for coming over as a fanny. No offense was intended....

[matty_f]

aye, to be fair whether your post was guff or not, (it was :wink:), there was nae need for me to say it.

So apologies for coming over as a fanny. No offense was intended....
:aok:

[Phil MaGlass]

It was the chicken that was before the egg,
concluded by scientists at Sheffield University,its due to the actual make up of the egg which includes egg white (OC-17 formed only in the ovaries) that speeds up the forming process of the eggshell that it could only have been formed in the chicken.

[Caversham Green]

It was the chicken that was before the egg,
concluded by scientists at Sheffield University,its due to the actual make up of the egg which includes egg white (OC-17 formed only in the ovaries) that speeds up the forming process of the eggshell that it could only have been formed in the chicken.

That's chicken's eggs they're talking about though, the saying doesn't specify what sort of egg.

There were eggs in the world a long time before there were any chickens.

[CropleyWasGod]

If the chicken was male, it probably came first.

[hibeedonald]

It was the chicken that was before the egg,
concluded by scientists at Sheffield University,its due to the actual make up of the egg which includes egg white (OC-17 formed only in the ovaries) that speeds up the forming process of the eggshell that it could only have been formed in the chicken.

Wow this went off topic, read the message and skipped to the end.

[Eyrie]

That's chicken's eggs they're talking about though, the saying doesn't specify what sort of egg.

There were eggs in the world a long time before there were any chickens.
Perfectly stated.

[jacomo]

Wow this went off topic, read the message and skipped to the end.

Whaddya mean, off topic?

So, just to be clear... Petrie is the egg, right?

:greengrin

[BEEJ]

Well said. Which is why the idea pre-paid purchase of tickets/merchandise is the best idea on here. It commits more fans to the club, and gives the club more income/certainty of income than the present arrangements.


It seems like a great idea at first glance but would throw up masses of issues immediately and I suspect may have a negative impact on income as masses of ST holders decide to give the club less money.
Just back from holiday today and as the one who proposed this idea I'm interested in your comments.

Firstly, as I stated when suggesting the scheme, there would be no incentives to encourage take-up of the pre-paid card arrangement - aside from the benefit of easy booking of tickets that belongs to the existing club membership scheme, there would be no discounts offered on tickets or merchandise through this arrangement.

Those pricing benefits would apply only to those who were able and willing to purchase a full season-ticket.

So whereas there might be a risk of eating into existing season-ticket sales, if proper benefits continue to accrue to the season membership it's unlikely that this migration would be significant.


I'm a big advocate of the club being less conservative and trying new things out but, at the very least, they have to be sure that anything introduced won't have a negative impact on existing income.
Even if the scheme were to deliver four times the income that was 'sacrificed'?


Stuff like membership schemes, family marketing etc is a no-brainer - making it easier to pick and choose games whilst guaranteeing a seat isn't so clear-cut IMHO.
Who said anything about guaranteeing a seat? :confused: Not part of the pre-paid card arrangement that I envisaged. That would make it far too complicated to administer.

What are the other issues that you envisage, Beefster?

[Beefster]

Just back from holiday today and as the one who proposed this idea I'm interested in your comments.

Firstly, as I stated when suggesting the scheme, there would be no incentives to encourage take-up of the pre-paid card arrangement - aside from the benefit of easy booking of tickets that belongs to the existing club membership scheme, there would be no discounts offered on tickets or merchandise through this arrangement.

Those pricing benefits would apply only to those who were able and willing to purchase a full season-ticket.

So whereas there might be a risk of eating into existing season-ticket sales, if proper benefits continue to accrue to the season membership it's unlikely that this migration would be significant.


Even if the scheme were to deliver four times the income that was 'sacrificed'?


Who said anything about guaranteeing a seat? :confused: Not part of the pre-paid card arrangement that I envisaged. That would make it far too complicated to administer.

What are the other issues that you envisage, Beefster?

If there are no incentives and no guaranteed seat, you're right, it probably wouldn't cost Hibs any existing income. In that case though, I don't see why anyone would use it. Why give Hibs money on the chance that you might use it at some point in the future for absolutely no benefits?

[BEEJ]

If there are no incentives and no guaranteed seat, you're right, it probably wouldn't cost Hibs any existing income. In that case though, I don't see why anyone would use it. Why give Hibs money on the chance that you might use it at some point in the future for absolutely no benefits?
There are many supporters for whom a season ticket would be impractical. Whether for financial reasons or logistics or other commitments, they are unlikely to make more than, say, two thirds of the home fixtures in a season. Even with their best efforts.

Until now the walk-up sales from this part of the supporter base counted for something in terms of establishing the Manager's player budget for the season. The club presumably made some estimate of that based on previous seasons and that estimate was factored into the player budget.

That has changed this season. There is now so much uncertainty about the financial landscape in Scottish football that the Hibs Board will, in effect, no longer take the risk that such walk-up sales will materialise. Instead the budget is all now based on season tickets, where the money is committed to the club up front and so the risk to them is removed. So this new financial scenario effectively prevents a sizeable part of the club's supporter base from contributing to the current cause.

A pre-paid card scheme would enable them to do so, to the extent that they were able. It's a way of making some sort of commitment of spend to the club for the forthcoming season. In so doing it removes the risk to the club that walk-up sales and merchandise sales will not actually materialise.

So the benefit to the supporter who takes part is that he / she is able to engage with the club's financial plight in some form or other. Season ticket holders remain the preferred membership scheme for the club and incentives will demonstrate as much. But this way, a greater proportion of the supporter base is able to get involved at the outset.

Quite simply, the benefit is the knowledge that you're contributing in a meaningful way.

[matty_f]

There are many supporters for whom a season ticket would be impractical. Whether for financial reasons or logistics or other commitments, they are unlikely to make more than, say, two thirds of the home fixtures in a season. Even with their best efforts.

Until now the walk-up sales from this part of the supporter base counted for something in terms of establishing the Manager's player budget for the season. The club presumably made some estimate of that based on previous seasons and that estimate was factored into the player budget.

That has changed this season. There is now so much uncertainty about the financial landscape in Scottish football that the Hibs Board will, in effect, no longer take the risk that such walk-up sales will materialise. Instead the budget is all now based on season tickets, where the money is committed to the club up front and so the risk to them is removed. So this new financial scenario effectively prevents a sizeable part of the club's supporter base from contributing to the current cause.

A pre-paid card scheme would enable them to do so, to the extent that they were able. It's a way of making some sort of commitment of spend to the club for the forthcoming season. In so doing it removes the risk to the club that walk-up sales and merchandise sales will not actually materialise.

So the benefit to the supporter who takes part is that he / she is able to engage with the club's financial plight in some form or other. Season ticket holders remain the preferred membership scheme for the club and incentives will demonstrate as much. But this way, a greater proportion of the supporter base is able to get involved at the outset.

Quite simply, the benefit is the knowledge that you're contributing in a meaningful way.

Like charitable giving?

[Steve-O]

Here's what Wellington Phoenix are doing, and bear in mind the quality on offer is not all that far off the SPL tbh.

Last season my season ticket cost $250 (about 130 quid) for 12 home games.

This season it is to cost (with early bird price) $175 (90 pounds) for 12 home games, plus entry to a game to be played in Auckland.

I also will get the following with my season ticket:

1 free ticket for a friend to one of the first 3 games
20% off any Phoenix merchandise
Free bus travel to selected games
Free entry to all Team Wellington games (semi professional team here, games are about a fiver a pop)
A scarf, a lanyard, a bumper sticker and a couple of other bits and pieces

Now THAT is true value. It beggars belief that for 6 more games a Hibs season ticket is more than 4 times that price.

Another idea they've implemented is a 6 match ticket - you have to use it at the first home game, but then are free to use it for any other 5 games during the season. This is also discounted on matchday price and obviously for those that can't make every game. Perhaps something for Hibs to think about?

[Captain Trips]

Message from Chairman (aka E J Smith) "Women and children first"

[Just Alf]

Like charitable giving?

Not far off really.

I can't afford a ST this year and work commitments mean if I did have one I'll miss a lot of games.

A pre-paid card would be great as a replacement to just walking up and the key bit is the money would be ring fenced for players.

Did I not also see some posts that at least one of the international guys has bought an ST just to support the club and help towards players?

[BEEJ]

Like charitable giving?
Hardly, since the intention is to spend the money over the course of the season. If you are actually securing match tickets and merchandise it's hardly charitable giving, is it?

You are merely giving the club a cashflow benefit and also removing for them the significant risk element currently attached to walk-up ticket and merchandise sales.

Nice try though. :wink:

[lucky]

I like the idea of a pay as you go card. My ST is very poor value. I miss 2/3 games s season. I like the idea of paying money every month and going to the games I can.

[matty_f]

Hardly, since the intention is to spend the money over the course of the season. If you are actually securing match tickets and merchandise it's hardly charitable giving, is it?

You are merely giving the club a cashflow benefit and also removing for them the significant risk element currently attached to walk-up ticket and merchandise sales.

Nice try though. :wink:
Not that different for buying a season ticket and getting to go to games in return then?

[matty_f]

Not far off really.

I can't afford a ST this year and work commitments mean if I did have one I'll miss a lot of games.

A pre-paid card would be great as a replacement to just walking up and the key bit is the money would be ring fenced for players.

Did I not also see some posts that at least one of the international guys has bought an ST just to support the club and help towards players?

I think the pre-paid card is a great idea as well.

[BEEJ]

Not that different for buying a season ticket and getting to go to games in return then?
No, not much different at all. Except that there would be no incentives in this instance.

[Emerald]

According to this article in the Sunday Mail, Hibs have sold 7,100 season tickets. IF that is true, the plea to fans didn't work. Hearts have only sold 1200 more if you believe this.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/29/spl-clubs-enjoying-season-ticket-boom-following-summer-of-doom-and-gloom-86908-23914298/

[Beefster]

According to this article in the Sunday Mail, Hibs have sold 7,100 season tickets. IF that is true, the plea to fans didn't work. Hearts have only sold 1200 more if you believe this.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/29/spl-clubs-enjoying-season-ticket-boom-following-summer-of-doom-and-gloom-86908-23914298/

Presumably most folk didn't renew because of the turgid rubbish they've been subjected to over the last few years. Telling that group of folk that they should really buy a ST but that they're still highly likely to be subjected to turgid rubbish unless loads of them renew was unlikely to ever be a winning PR campaign.

As I've said before, doing 'the right thing' over Sevco5088 was more about averting a catastrophic crash in ST numbers next season then encouraging new ST holders for this season or lapsed ST holders to renew IMHO.

[Spike Mandela]

Presumably most folk didn't renew because of the turgid rubbish they've been subjected to over the last few years. Telling that group of folk that they should really buy a ST but that they're still highly likely to be subjected to turgid rubbish unless loads of them renew was unlikely to ever be a winning PR campaign.

As I've said before, doing 'the right thing' over Sevco5088 was more about averting a catastrophic crash in ST numbers next season then encouraging new ST holders for this season or lapsed ST holders to renew IMHO.

The Mixu, Yogi, CC, Fenlon steady decline has seen Petrie preside over a huge loss of fans and fan interest which will take many years to recover from imo.

[Bobo]

According to this article in the Sunday Mail, Hibs have sold 7,100 season tickets. IF that is true, the plea to fans didn't work. Hearts have only sold 1200 more if you believe this.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/29/spl-clubs-enjoying-season-ticket-boom-following-summer-of-doom-and-gloom-86908-23914298/

We were speaking to Rod Petrie before yesterdays game and he commented that a little over 250 additional season tickets had been sold since his previous club statement was released so there's slightly more sold than reported in that article.

[Ozyhibby]

Given that we have the third highest season ticket sales in the spl I expect the club to be able to sign players that are able to compete for at least third in the table. We have not got a team capable of that at the moment which means someone is failing and I don't think it is the fans who are staying away.

[Emerald]

We were speaking to Rod Petrie before yesterdays game and he commented that a little over 250 additional season tickets had been sold since his previous club statement was released so there's slightly more sold than reported in that article.

Unless of course there were less than the reported 7,000 sold before. Not that I would believe everything I read in the Sunday Mail.

[Emerald]

We were speaking to Rod Petrie before yesterdays game and he commented that a little over 250 additional season tickets had been sold since his previous club statement was released so there's slightly more sold than reported in that article.

The important point is that if only 250 people have bought a ST since his plea, the tactic just isn't working. We all knew that would be the case anyway. As Spike pointed out earlier, folk wont renew if the product is more of the same rubbish on offer. They have to think of another way to get folk buying in order to get near their 10,000 target. Loads of ideas have already been suggested on here. A couple of decent signing though is probably the only thing that will encourage folk back.

[sixtwo]

If it is true that we receive an average of 200 quid per season ticket, it would appear tha we are selling loads of children's, oap's and disabled tickets. Lots of guys ho are not in that bracket feel they are being priced out of watching their team.
Why no have a flat fee for everyone? £250 would represent a small increase for some concession tickets but would be a very attractive decrease in cost for everyone else.
We could retain walk up prices at he same level as they are today.
This would mean we would increase our average season ticket price by £50.

I appreciate that there is an argument to say this is penalising the most vulnerable supporters but I believe 250 is fair for everyone. I believe this could be marketed well and this would provide a great incentive for having a ST

I am certain that many of my mates who have lapsed over the years would invest if they felt they were getting value for money.

I am a supporter with 2 boys. I appreciate I would not benefit from this scheme but believe many many more fans would do. This scheme would bring football back to the supporters who have been priced out.

[steakbake]

The important point is that if only 250 people have bought a ST since his plea, the tactic just isn't working. We all knew that would be the case anyway. As Spike pointed out earlier, folk wont renew if the product is more of the same rubbish on offer. They have to think of another way to get folk buying in order to get near their 10,000 target. Loads of ideas have already been suggested on here. A couple of decent signing though is probably the only thing that will encourage folk back.

I agree with this.

Problem is we're told that you're not a proper Hibs fan unless you are willing to fork out 400quid and not expect much in return.

I've lapsed this year because 400 is not worth it to me. I'll pay at the gate occasionally instead

[sixtwo]

I agree with this.

Problem is we're told that you're not a proper Hibs fan unless you are willing to fork out 400quid and not expect much in return.

I've lapsed this year because 400 is not worth it to me. I'll pay at the gate occasionally instead

There must be thousands in the same boat. Would you buy one for 250?

[steakbake]

There must be thousands in the same boat. Would you buy one for 250?

Yes, I most probably would to be honest. I wouldn't mind missing a couple of games at that price and I think it's more justifiable.

It's not a massive difference (150) but its more representative of the value of the product.

[Jonnyboy]

Here's what Wellington Phoenix are doing, and bear in mind the quality on offer is not all that far off the SPL tbh.

Last season my season ticket cost $250 (about 130 quid) for 12 home games.

This season it is to cost (with early bird price) $175 (90 pounds) for 12 home games, plus entry to a game to be played in Auckland.

I also will get the following with my season ticket:

1 free ticket for a friend to one of the first 3 games
20% off any Phoenix merchandise
Free bus travel to selected games
Free entry to all Team Wellington games (semi professional team here, games are about a fiver a pop)
A scarf, a lanyard, a bumper sticker and a couple of other bits and pieces

Now THAT is true value. It beggars belief that for 6 more games a Hibs season ticket is more than 4 times that price.

Another idea they've implemented is a 6 match ticket - you have to use it at the first home game, but then are free to use it for any other 5 games during the season. This is also discounted on matchday price and obviously for those that can't make every game. Perhaps something for Hibs to think about?

Steve, how are the club financed? By that I mean do they have a rich owner with deep pockets or maybe a generous sponsor? Also, what's the average home gate and what level are the players salaries?

[kennyh]

I think the idea being discussed about a pre payment card with Hibs has mileage, like many folk STs are simply not viable because you don't go to enough games for a multitude of reasons to get anywhere near value. This year I did get a Family ST in response to Rods plea but being honest prob won't carry this on in future years as it's not financially sensible for me.
A pre paid card that allow people to commit funds when they can to be used for tickets or merchandise in the shops would be ideal in my opinion. I generally buy everything at Hibs on a credit card as it's simple but if I had a Hibee prepaid card it's more of a link and you would potentially be inclined to spend a few quid more as it's money already earmarked for Hibs.

It may impact on ST sales but I don't imagine it would be that significant.

Fans could pre load cards online or in the shop where cards could be offered as gifts to be used sometime over the next 24 months as I assume Hibs would need to show any unused amounts on cards on the balance sheet.

[BEEJ]

Fans could pre load cards online or in the shop where cards could be offered as gifts to be used sometime over the next 24 months as I assume Hibs would need to show any unused amounts on cards on the balance sheet.
I think they should be season-based.

Any balance on your card that you haven't used by 31 May you forfeit and the club keeps. If you use the card sensibly this should seldom happen or at least should be limited just to nominal amounts.

[IWasThere2016]

I think they should be season-based.

Any balance on your card that you haven't used by 31 May you forfeit and the club keeps. If you use the card sensibly this should seldom happen or at least should be limited just to nominal amounts.

Yup - and MUST 'rank' below STs for choice of seat, priority for tickets, earlybird, shop discounts (like the 2 for 1 tops incentive) etc. The prepaid card must be no frills, no carry forward balances and its main purposes has to be revenue creation/cash-flow benefits for the club.

[hibs0666]

Steve, how are the club financed? By that I mean do they have a rich owner with deep pockets or maybe a generous sponsor? Also, what's the average home gate and what level are the players salaries?

The A-League is toiling and owners are saying the league is unsustainable without a significantly improved TV deal. The league has been going 7 years and only 4 of the original 10 teams are still involved.

The low prices for games might be attractive but they don't seem to be very sustainable.

[The Green Goblin]

I think they should be season-based.

Any balance on your card that you haven't used by 31 May you forfeit and the club keeps. If you use the card sensibly this should seldom happen or at least should be limited just to nominal amounts.

One positive consequence of this will be that loads of folk would probably still have games remaining at the end of the season, and not wanting to have wasted their money, those people would no doubt use them up, meaning there would be a full-(ish) stadium for the last few fixtures.

I agree with the people saying that STs are too expensive as they are. The idea of averaging them out to around 250 or so (thats a random example figure, so no, i can't "explain" or justify it) is a good one. The club could sell gift vouchers with different values so that people could give tickets as presents to load onto folks' cards.

[rcarter1]

Im lovin the pre paid card idea! :thumbsup:

Cracking way of getting money into Hibs preseason, in a flexible fashion for each individual. Any left over cash could be used in the gift shop etc, but I doubt many people would overload their cards anyway.

Lovin it.
:aok:

[Steve-O]

Steve, how are the club financed? By that I mean do they have a rich owner with deep pockets or maybe a generous sponsor? Also, what's the average home gate and what level are the players salaries?

Quite a familiar sounding story as it happens...:greengrin

The original owner got into some serious financial trouble (issues aside from the football club I hasten to add) and was eventually declared bankrupt. A consortium of Wellington businessmen who were not really football fans all clubbed together (9 in total) and saved the club as they believed it to be important for the local community. So, they are the owners, but like our very own STF, they are not for pumping ridiculous amounts of money into the club and want the club to turn a profit. The squad is pretty threadbare with only 20 in the first team squad but there are youth initiatives going on in the background too. Obviously there are a number of sponsors, but none are out of the ordinary throwing money around.

As for salaries, it's quite tricky to get such information it seems, but I believe the top players (say 2 or 3) are on as much as $250k a year (about 130 grand) but of course it varies.


The A-League is toiling and owners are saying the league is unsustainable without a significantly improved TV deal. The league has been going 7 years and only 4 of the original 10 teams are still involved.

The low prices for games might be attractive but they don't seem to be very sustainable.

Not quite true. 7 of the original 8 (not 10) are still going, and Wellington Phoenix are the 'newco' of the only original team to go under - the New Zealand Knights.

I believe there is a new TV deal in the pipeline as well. It is true there are some struggles ahead but this is a 7 year old league in a market with stiff competition against Rugby League, Aussie Rules, and Rugby Union.

And, on the contrary, I am not sure the high prices of the SPL are sustainable either. And if we're to believe what all the Sevco followers tell us, the entire game in Scotland is not sustainable either :wink:

I can tell you now if you asked a Kiwi for $800 for a season ticket that they would sell ZERO, and that includes for Rugby incidentally.

[kennyh]

Yup - and MUST 'rank' below STs for choice of seat, priority for tickets, earlybird, shop discounts (like the 2 for 1 tops incentive) etc. The prepaid card must be no frills, no carry forward balances and its main purposes has to be revenue creation/cash-flow benefits for the club.

I wasn't suggesting any priority for seats or shop discounts but thinking about it this could be a way round the ongoing issue for tourists or new Hibs fans wanting to get a T for a Cat A game. Starting point could be something like purchase a £50 Card and get on the data base.

Another use could be to help fans who struggle with a one off payment for a ST would be the opportunity to top up the card through the season leading to it being used to buy the next seasons ST.