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View Full Version : Scottish Sun claims Hibs on brink of administration



hibsdaft70
14-07-2012, 08:34 AM
I should know by now not to believe a word this rag says but surely this cannot be true? With the assets that Hibs own that they could sell or take a mortgage out on to release cash I refuse to believe this can be true. Thoughts?

MSK
14-07-2012, 08:36 AM
I should know by now not to believe a word this rag says but surely this cannot be true? With the assets that Hibs own that they could sell or take a mortgage out on to release cash I refuse to believe this can be true. Thoughts?Prob got hibs mixed up wi hearts ..

lapsedhibee
14-07-2012, 08:38 AM
So the Donkey Pack haven't yet given up trying to get SevcoHun into the SPL.

Hibstrooper
14-07-2012, 08:38 AM
I should know by now not to believe a word this rag says but surely this cannot be true? With the assets that Hibs own that they could sell or take a mortgage out on to release cash I refuse to believe this can be true. Thoughts?

Wasnt it Aberdeen a couple of weeks ago? They are just panicking because their beloved teddy bears didn't get the outcome they would have liked so are upping their scare tactics.

If we were that bad I doubt we would be spending thousands on a trip to Europe

cad
14-07-2012, 08:38 AM
I should know by now not to believe a word this rag says but surely this cannot be true? With the assets that Hibs own that they could sell or take a mortgage out on to release cash I refuse to believe this can be true. Thoughts?

Just delete this thread mate no point to it ,its pish .

Aldo
14-07-2012, 08:40 AM
Yeah we sure are... That's why PF is bringing in more players. I can categorically say that the Yams or even Killie have 100% more chance of this than us.

And that is the reason I don't buy that rag

JustSimplyHibs
14-07-2012, 08:41 AM
Just delete this thread mate no point to it ,its pish .

Agreed, so many Rangers fans have been saying this for the past couple of months, i would like to see our board issue a public statement and begin a legal process against this rag

Kaiser1962
14-07-2012, 08:42 AM
I should know by now not to believe a word this rag says but surely this cannot be true? With the assets that Hibs own that they could sell or take a mortgage out on to release cash I refuse to believe this can be true. Thoughts?

Is there a link to this?

Given that Ipox and Muppet park have just sold for £1.5m, I am interested as to how much folk think Hibs "assetts" are worth in the real world?


I would expect the liquidators to look closely at D+P's disposal of rangers assetts but nonetheless, I would imagine they can put up some sort of argument or they wouldnt have done it.

Woody70x2
14-07-2012, 08:52 AM
What a load of rubbish... If we were on the brink of administration Rod would not be sanctioning the acquisition of players.

Mon Dieu4
14-07-2012, 08:53 AM
Haven't seen the story but is our debt not just a mortgage of 6-7 million which is a mortgage due around 2020

Other than that i know we have made a loss but nowhere near enough to put us in admin

Petrie may be alot of things but he is not daft in that respect

If it got that bad im sure STF would give another one of his cheeky loans

sounds like pish to me

Viva_Palmeiras
14-07-2012, 08:53 AM
Can't see the article online ?
Where does the Sun make this claim paper version? Anyone post a piccie if the case. Not gonna get twitchy at the mo'

If Hibs were about to go into administration - I know it didn't/wouldn't stop Rangers but would we be signing the likes of McPake - @£&t stirring IMO. Distracting from the big issue for hibs - getting folks where they can to buy STs and support the team as best they can financially going hand in hand with building a decent team that can perform.

fife hfc
14-07-2012, 08:57 AM
What a load of pish.

chriswood1401
14-07-2012, 08:57 AM
Just read the report, mentions us as one of four clubs in 'financial peril' along with 'Well, Hearts and Dundee Utd. I take it as nowt more than the usual scaremongering from these idiots.

Judas Iscariot
14-07-2012, 08:58 AM
Loady...

Hibstrooper
14-07-2012, 08:59 AM
Just read the report, mentions us as one of four clubs in 'financial peril' along with 'Well, Hearts and Dundee Utd. I take it as nowt more than the usual scaremongering from these idiots.

What, the 4 clubs most likely to mount any type of challenge to Celtic, surely not!?

danhibees1875
14-07-2012, 09:00 AM
What a load of pish.


Is there a link to this?

Given that Ipox and Muppet park have just sold for £1.5m, I am interested as to how much folk think Hibs "assetts" are worth in the real world?


I would expect the liquidators to look closely at D+P's disposal of rangers assetts but nonetheless, I would imagine they can put up some sort of argument or they wouldnt have done it.

Yes, our financial statements report our assets as being far greater than our liabilities.

fife hfc
14-07-2012, 09:01 AM
Funny how Killie are openly admitting that they are totally ****ed but are not mentioned. Hearts are easy to add in because of their debt. This will be based on assumptions going by last years accounts rather than any inside info.

lyonhibs
14-07-2012, 09:02 AM
It'll be Killie, ICT and St Johnstone next week in another "Scottish football reels from terrible decision to punt The mighty Glasgow Rangers to Div 3" Scottish Sun exclusive :rolleyes:

Clutching at straws that even they know don't exist methinks.

bingo70
14-07-2012, 09:02 AM
I've got the paper and can't see the story?

AlbertK86
14-07-2012, 09:12 AM
All designed to try and fool fans into saying

Oh dear maybe the SPL 2 should be in place so we can welcome back the saviours of Scottish football to the top league in 2013-2014 season.

As usual the sun view fans as dafties

Hibs need to publicly oppose rangers into an SPL 2 but I have a bad feeling this is what ROD wants.

If so his integrity statement will be a complete sham.

Hope I am wrong

danhibees1875
14-07-2012, 09:14 AM
I've got the paper and can't see the story?

Reagan and Doncaster are talking about it in a big article on page 3...

Well, there is a couple of ... Anyway ;-)

Actually, it's Saturday today isn't it? My joke doesn't work :-(

Hibercelona
14-07-2012, 09:18 AM
I should know by now not to believe a word this rag says but surely this cannot be true? With the assets that Hibs own that they could sell or take a mortgage out on to release cash I refuse to believe this can be true. Thoughts?

:hilarious






































































































:faf:

BT58
14-07-2012, 09:19 AM
jeezo,, the months fly by!!!!,,,is it April the 1st already????
:confused::confused::confused:
bt

nonshinyfinish
14-07-2012, 09:23 AM
Pish.

They're getting desperate...

ginger_rice
14-07-2012, 09:28 AM
Tell you what, if Hibs are about to go into administration then the rest of Scottish football must already be liquidated, what a load of Tom Kite.

Now that fan power has shown that, united, the rest of Scottish football outwith the former-OF, can take charge and effect change, we should now start an all out assault on the wegia, all football fans should boycott (yes I know, the B word) the Sun and Record, and probably a few more, we should stop listening to your call etc.

LeithSqualk
14-07-2012, 09:28 AM
I hope we don't have to put up with this pish for the next three years.

lucky
14-07-2012, 09:29 AM
Don't read or buy that rag. It's anti working class rag. Another attempt by Murdochs people to control Scottish football

nonshinyfinish
14-07-2012, 09:31 AM
Does anyone have a link to this? I sullied my web browser by opening their site, but I couldn't find the story.

Pretty Boy
14-07-2012, 09:38 AM
The Sun can **** off.

I 100% hope that not one club, including Hearts, goes into administration whilst the huns are off on their 'adventure'. That would show up this scaremongering for what it is.

brog
14-07-2012, 09:38 AM
I wouldn't wipe my erchie with the !!!, I use the Daily Mail for that!
Seriously, we shouldn't even give this garbage the impression of credence ( & I know by posting I'm perpetuating it )

BroxburnHibee
14-07-2012, 09:39 AM
I should know by now not to believe a word this rag says but surely this cannot be true? With the assets that Hibs own that they could sell or take a mortgage out on to release cash I refuse to believe this can be true. Thoughts?

:hmmm:


Just read the report, mentions us as one of four clubs in 'financial peril' along with 'Well, Hearts and Dundee Utd. I take it as nowt more than the usual scaremongering from these idiots.

:hmmm:


I've got the paper and can't see the story?

Can anyone confirm this 'story' as definitely being in this rag?

nonshinyfinish
14-07-2012, 09:41 AM
The Sun can **** off.

I 100% hope that not one club, including Hearts, goes into administration whilst the huns are off on their 'adventure'. That would show up this scaremongering for what it is.

I'd be willing for their scaremongering to be lent a small degree of credence by Hearts' financial implosion.

lyonhibs
14-07-2012, 09:45 AM
I'd be willing for their scaremongering to be lent a small degree of credence by Hearts' financial implosion.

It would be a dull yin to take, but a maroon free Edinburgh would be worth it, and would make my phlanx of Hun mates' inevitable crowing about "We told yeez so" more than tolerable.

NAE NOOKIE
14-07-2012, 09:47 AM
I'm sure the story is a load of p1sh.

As far as Hibs assets go ..... I'm sure that ER a two minute bus ride from the hub of Scottish decision making and power is worth a lot more than say Ibrox.... a two minute bus ride from ..... well no very much really.


But ...... based on the theory that even a broken clock is right twice a day there is still an answer to the problem.


Pay to watch some games folks.

VickMackie
14-07-2012, 09:48 AM
Pish.

They're getting desperate...

Exactly.

This story is pish but you do realise its the end of the world!

Tyler Durden
14-07-2012, 09:48 AM
Although its hyperbole, I don't think the actual wording is too inaccurate.

It says Killie are on the brink of administration which is no shock. It then says Well, Hearts, Hibs and Utd are in a perilous financial state. Although each team have very different circumstances, that's not an unfair comment IMO.

Although we're undoubtedly solvent from a Balance Sheet perspective, we'll definitely have had challenges meeting our interest commitments in recent years, we're expected to report a 3rd consecutive loss (correct me if wrong)? I think that can reasonably be described as perilous.

The story does mention "distributions" amongst SPL clubs dropping to £1.2m overnight. Not sure what they base that on given the lack of anything concrete from Sky or other sponsors to indicate deals will be reneged/renegotiated. That part seems clear scare mongering.

I don't think the Sun is anywhere close to the Hun Agenda that the Record spews forth to be honest.

Kojock
14-07-2012, 09:51 AM
Its at the end of an article on page 70 written by David Friel under the title "Its Panic Stations at Caley"

Kaiser1962
14-07-2012, 09:52 AM
Yes, our financial statements report our assets as being far greater than our liabilities.


As did Rangers D.

And Hearts made a profit in the last two years. ::greengrin

Baw Baggio
14-07-2012, 09:55 AM
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/4428758/Its-panic-stations-at-Caley.html

"Meanwhile, Kilmarnock could be just WEEKS away from plunging into administration.
SunSport understands a further FOUR SPL clubs are teetering on the brink as a direct result of yesterday’s Hampden vote.
The decision to banish newco Rangers to the Third Division has pushed half of Scotland’d top flight clubs to the brink of financial meltdown.
Distributions that once stood at £15.7m have been slashed overnight to £1.2m.
And Killie — who abstained from the initial SPL vote to reject Charles Green’s Gers — could be the first to fall into the abyss.
Motherwell, Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United are also in a perilous financial state with clubs now struggling to meet their already slashed wage bills."

neilmartinrocks
14-07-2012, 09:56 AM
Derbies this season...
Arabs v dees v saints
Dons v caley v staggies
Hibs v jambos
all looks fine on the eastern front.
more competition more chance of europe less need to go to the weidge.
(assuming the dee get promoted)

IWasThere2016
14-07-2012, 10:00 AM
Don't see owt online. BUT as I have said before our cash position is poor. Post spending the last of it on the East and heavy trading losses. We will need to re-finance our debts. STF parachuted cash in last year, and may have had to do so again this year but he will not do this long term. The build for the assets should have been financed over the longer term than they were via current arrangements/cash IMHO.

banchoryhibs
14-07-2012, 10:01 AM
Whilst I don't believe for a minute that Hibs are in any way close to being in trouble it's cashflow not a negative balance sheet that plunges companies into administration.

If you can't pay your tax / suppliers / wages then administration follows! Having loads of assets does not help if they are not generating hard cash.

Sometimes having Rod around pays dividends:agree:

Geo_1875
14-07-2012, 10:13 AM
I think they're probably quite close to being right, but only by a fluke. Unless they're using ST money to pay wages the close season means clubs outgoings always exceeds income. Once season starts and gate money comes in the position, for most clubs, is reversed. They really are scaremongering on behalf of Sevco.

Hibby Bairn
14-07-2012, 10:18 AM
Certainly not pish. Closer to correct than you think.

Big Ed
14-07-2012, 10:21 AM
Certainly not pish. Closer to correct than you think.

Would you care to elaborate?

cocopops1875
14-07-2012, 10:26 AM
Certainly not pish. Closer to correct than you think.

Only if SirTom is not backing us anymore

Hibercelona
14-07-2012, 10:26 AM
Certainly not pish. Closer to correct than you think.

Utter nonsense.

LeighLoyal
14-07-2012, 10:28 AM
Butthurting hun fantasy.

CropleyWasGod
14-07-2012, 10:28 AM
Certainly not pish. Closer to correct than you think.


A company is insolvent when its liabilities exceed its assets, or it is unable to meet its debts as they fall due.

Which is it?

Phil D. Rolls
14-07-2012, 10:29 AM
Although its hyperbole, I don't think the actual wording is too inaccurate.

It says Killie are on the brink of administration which is no shock. It then says Well, Hearts, Hibs and Utd are in a perilous financial state. Although each team have very different circumstances, that's not an unfair comment IMO.

Although we're undoubtedly solvent from a Balance Sheet perspective, we'll definitely have had challenges meeting our interest commitments in recent years, we're expected to report a 3rd consecutive loss (correct me if wrong)? I think that can reasonably be described as perilous.

The story does mention "distributions" amongst SPL clubs dropping to £1.2m overnight. Not sure what they base that on given the lack of anything concrete from Sky or other sponsors to indicate deals will be reneged/renegotiated. That part seems clear scare mongering.

I don't think the Sun is anywhere close to the Hun Agenda that the Record spews forth to be honest.

Is it because they have the same owner.

Elephant Stone
14-07-2012, 10:31 AM
Dear Sevco,

Sook ees.

Mon Dieu4
14-07-2012, 10:33 AM
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/4428758/Its-panic-stations-at-Caley.html

"Meanwhile, Kilmarnock could be just WEEKS away from plunging into administration.
SunSport understands a further FOUR SPL clubs are teetering on the brink as a direct result of yesterday’s Hampden vote.
The decision to banish newco Rangers to the Third Division has pushed half of Scotland’d top flight clubs to the brink of financial meltdown.
Distributions that once stood at £15.7m have been slashed overnight to £1.2m.
And Killie — who abstained from the initial SPL vote to reject Charles Green’s Gers — could be the first to fall into the abyss.
Motherwell, Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United are also in a perilous financial state with clubs now struggling to meet their already slashed wage bills."

so they have mentioned killie and managed to get 8 other teams in the same article Haha ok we get it only Celtic are ok and not going under, scandalous reporting

HH81
14-07-2012, 10:33 AM
I hardly think a club close to admin would be booking pre season tours abroad.

I'm sure they must have made a decent amount of the Scottish cup final to tide them over till season starts?

Iggy Pope
14-07-2012, 10:40 AM
Change of thread title methinks.

The article does not mention Hibs in connection with administration, only that we are one of a number of clubs in various states of financial doo. No surprise there. Petrie will tell you this at the next AGM, just as he did at the last one.

Sumner
14-07-2012, 10:41 AM
"Claim"... claim is a strong word.

Someone might claim the Scootish Sun
is a wholly biased SKY-serving trash paper,
peddling slander and scare-mongering,
while it's owner is not attending hearings
playing the borderline-senility card,
and denying private investigators
were on the payroll, hacking a dead girl's phone


... "Claim" you say.

blackpoolhibs
14-07-2012, 10:41 AM
How many clubs have gone bust after being relegated? Bearing in mind they dont have any games against sevco or celtic? :confused:

Mikey
14-07-2012, 10:52 AM
Certainly not pish. Closer to correct than you think.



Would you care to elaborate?


Only if SirTom is not backing us anymore


Utter nonsense.


A company is insolvent when its liabilities exceed its assets, or it is unable to meet its debts as they fall due.

Which is it?

C'mon then, let's be having it.

SkintHibby
14-07-2012, 11:11 AM
Some of you may remember I started a thread a few months ago bout Hibs being close to administration. The person who had told me this said these words came directly from Fife Hyland (the person who told me this has no association with Hibs so I stood up and took notice when he mentioned Fife Hylands name).

I never expected to be shot down in flames for only reporting on here what Fife had said but no matter what, these rumours are coming from somewhere (whether they are true or not).

Kaiser1962
14-07-2012, 11:14 AM
How many clubs have gone bust after being relegated? Bearing in mind they dont have any games against sevco or celtic? :confused:


List of clubs outwith the top flight who have gone into administration are Morton (2000), Livingston (2009) and Dundee (2010). Livi left the top flight in 2006 and Dundee in 2005 so its unlikely lack of games against Sevco caused their (2nd) financial demise. Morton last played in the top division in 1988.

Clubs who were liquidated outside the top flight are Airdrieonians (2002), ironically at the behest of David Murray, who gave a big lecture about "paying your way" Oh, the irony!. Clydebank (2002) were liquidated the same year and were, controversially, taken over by what was left of Airdrieonians and reformed as Airdrie United.

Top flight clubs who have experienced financial issues and sought refuge within the administration process are, despite playing Sevco, are Motherwell (2004), Dundee (2004), Livingston(2005), Gretna (who were liquidated and reformed as Gretna 2008 in, would you believe, 2008) and Rangers, who are about to be liquidated but have already reformed as Sevco.

You would have to surmise that, statistically, you are safer in the lower divisions, despite not playing the "big" teams.

Kaiser1962
14-07-2012, 11:28 AM
Certainly not pish. Closer to correct than you think.

I dont believe this so do you any evidence to back this up?

Smidge
14-07-2012, 11:39 AM
While Hibs' financial position is undoubtedly considerably weaker than the high point of 2006-2009, when we creamed in a lot of transfer fees, it is also undoubted that this is pish.

We will be under pressure from the bank to make sure that all cost savings have been taken and there is no extravagent spending, no more nor less than any other club right now, but I'm pretty sure I would have heard a whisper or two from my finance sources if there was any substance in this.

Tyler Durden
14-07-2012, 11:43 AM
Is it because they have the same owner.

I don't think Bill Leckie has a private hotline to Rupert Murdoch though....:wink:

Mikey
14-07-2012, 11:44 AM
Some of you may remember I started a thread a few months ago bout Hibs being close to administration. The person who had told me this said these words came directly from Fife Hyland (the person who told me this has no association with Hibs so I stood up and took notice when he mentioned Fife Hylands name).

I never expected to be shot down in flames for only reporting on here what Fife had said but no matter what, these rumours are coming from somewhere (whether they are true or not).

A club that's on the verge of administration doesn't sign players and go abroad for pre season. Facts are often more accurate than second hand info :wink:

greenginger
14-07-2012, 11:49 AM
By far the biggest loser in administration for Hibs would be Sir Tom Farmer. His loans and guarantees would cost him lots never mind the humiliation of such an event.

It is in STF 's interest to continue to finance the Club, but if he is unwilling or unable to provide any short term support , I am sure Rod would have been aware and the new signings would not have happened.

I am confident in our Rod's ability to provide a balance sheet and cash flow projections to enable STF to be aware of any cash calls coming his way and if they were not going to be met the new players would not be here.

Of course none of the above excuses us supporters from helping to finance our Club by buying our Season Tickets or paying at the gate.

bingo70
14-07-2012, 11:49 AM
A club that's on the verge of administration doesn't sign players and go abroad for pre season. Facts are often more accurate than second hand info :wink:

Rangers signing Daniel Cousin and i'm sure i read they booked to go to Germany for pre-season :wink:

The only way i can see us going into administration is if we see it as a way of avoiding paying debts, possibly if there's going to be league reconstruction so no relegation or something so we see it as a good time to do so.

Kaiser1962
14-07-2012, 12:12 PM
While Hibs' financial position is undoubtedly considerably weaker than the high point of 2006-2009, when we creamed in a lot of transfer fees, it is also undoubted that this is pish.

We will be under pressure from the bank to make sure that all cost savings have been taken and there is no extravagent spending, no more nor less than any other club right now, but I'm pretty sure I would have heard a whisper or two from my finance sources if there was any substance in this.

I would add that it is currently stronger that it was in the late 90's - early 00's when the debt was much higher and we were contemplating leaving ER. I am not so sure the bank have any real say in what happens down ER way as all the mortgages and loans are, as GreenGinger says below, on the back of STF's personal guarantees.

All Scottish clubs are finding it tough and the Rangers situation dosent help. It is worth reminding ourselves though that Rangers, with the second biggest income, have just gone to the wall.



By far the biggest loser in administration for Hibs would be Sir Tom Farmer. His loans and guarantees would cost him lots never mind the humiliation of such an event.

It is in STF 's interest to continue to finance the Club, but if he is unwilling or unable to provide any short term support , I am sure Rod would have been aware and the new signings would not have happened.

I am confident in our Rod's ability to provide a balance sheet and cash flow projections to enable STF to be aware of any cash calls coming his way and if they were not going to be met the new players would not be here.

Of course none of the above excuses us supporters from helping to finance our Club by buying our Season Tickets or paying at the gate.

Moulin Yarns
14-07-2012, 12:15 PM
I wonder if this is where this spurious rumour started?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-in-division-three-fall-out-for-hibs-worries-fans-chief-1-2412458

Smidge
14-07-2012, 12:17 PM
I would add that it is currently stronger that it was in the late 90's - early 00's when the debt was much higher and we were contemplating leaving ER. I am not so sure the bank have any real say in what happens down ER way as all the mortgages and loans are, as GreenGinger says below, on the back of STF's personal guarantees.

Is there actually legal personal guarantees in place? Always thought it was more of an undertaking to always stand behind the club. Big difference between a guarantee and an undertaking, being that one is a lot more enforceable.

Billy Whizz
14-07-2012, 12:20 PM
I wonder if this is where this spurious rumour started?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-in-division-three-fall-out-for-hibs-worries-fans-chief-1-2412458

Blame the fans chief I say😄

Part/Time Supporter
14-07-2012, 12:32 PM
I think Hibs is mentioned in this article because previous scaremongering has been stating that "six SPL clubs could go bust". The hack has just guessed the identity of the six, there's no real information in there to back that up.

There's two ways that Hibs could enter an insolvency procedure. Either forced by its creditors or voluntarily to avoid (near) future debts. There's no point in Hibs doing it voluntarily because almost all of its debt is the two mortgages totalling £7M, which are secured on Easter Road. The mortgage provider (what was HBOS) would get their money back, either by taking control of the stadium or selling it off, so Hibs wouldn't be able to reduce their external debt significantly by entering administration. It would cost more money (administrator fees) than it would save.

Therefore the only realistic way that administration would happen is if a (major) creditor forced it on the club. That would only happen is if Farmer stops providing finance to top up the main sources of revenue, as he has done several times in the last 20 years.

To cut a long story short, Hibs are the club least in danger in the SPL with the exception of Celtic. That doesn't mean to say there is no risk, but several other clubs would go under first.

DH1875
14-07-2012, 12:33 PM
How many clubs have gone bust after being relegated? Bearing in mind they dont have any games against sevco or celtic? :confused:

Exactly. Lets not forget we were total keek last season and only just managed to beat the drop. If we hadn't, would we have gone under? don't think so.

blackpoolhibs
14-07-2012, 12:37 PM
I wonder if this is where this spurious rumour started?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-in-division-three-fall-out-for-hibs-worries-fans-chief-1-2412458

I agree with most of what BF said in that, apart from what he said about the punishment at the end. I wish folk would stop this practise, we are talking about a new club here, not the old Rangers.

They have not been parachuted into the 3rd division, this new club have applied to join the SFL as a new company, and thats been agreed.

And the only logical place any new club joins is at the bottom tier, they have not been dumped/punished or parachuted into the bottom league, they have applied to join and have been accepted.

Part/Time Supporter
14-07-2012, 12:48 PM
I wonder if this is where this spurious rumour started?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-in-division-three-fall-out-for-hibs-worries-fans-chief-1-2412458

Given that it was published 12 hours later, no.

Kaiser1962
14-07-2012, 12:59 PM
Is there actually legal personal guarantees in place? Always thought it was more of an undertaking to always stand behind the club. Big difference between a guarantee and an undertaking, being that one is a lot more enforceable.


£4m mortgage taken out (HBOS) for the West Stand was granted subject to a "personal guarantee" from STF.

hibsdaft
14-07-2012, 01:06 PM
Rag.

Treadstone
14-07-2012, 01:28 PM
The real reason they print garbage like this and wanted/needed Sevco to play in SPl or Div 1.

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/in-brief/5378-scottish-newspaper-circulation-continues-to-plummet

I predict one of these titles will go down before a football club , most likely the Sunday Herald .

Bostonhibby
14-07-2012, 01:28 PM
Is the next great campaign surely not to organise a boycott of this rag in and around Hibs circles? Never buy it never will.

nonshinyfinish
14-07-2012, 01:44 PM
http://waltonbreckroad.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a7b2121c970b0120a8fb8faf970b-320wi

Jay
14-07-2012, 01:48 PM
Can anybody confirm this story is in the paper? I have looked online and there is nothing there. Anybody want to admit to having a paper copy and check it out :greengrin

Part/Time Supporter
14-07-2012, 01:53 PM
Can anybody confirm this story is in the paper? I have looked online and there is nothing there. Anybody want to admit to having a paper copy and check it out :greengrin

It's just a bit of throwaway guesswork at the foot of the Inverness story (http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/4428758/Its-panic-stations-at-Caley.html).


Meanwhile, Kilmarnock could be just WEEKS away from plunging into administration.

SunSport understands a further FOUR SPL clubs are teetering on the brink as a direct result of yesterday’s Hampden vote.

The decision to banish newco Rangers to the Third Division has pushed half of Scotland’d top flight clubs to the brink of financial meltdown.

Distributions that once stood at £15.7m have been slashed overnight to £1.2m.

And Killie — who abstained from the initial SPL vote to reject Charles Green’s Gers — could be the first to fall into the abyss.

Motherwell, Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United are also in a perilous financial state with clubs now struggling to meet their already slashed wage bills.

blackpoolhibs
14-07-2012, 01:57 PM
Can anybody confirm this story is in the paper? I have looked online and there is nothing there. Anybody want to admit to having a paper copy and check it out :greengrin

It makes no difference whether they printed it or not, this is the same paper that told us Craig White had wealth of the radar, he was a billionaire. Its erse wipe paper, not good enough for fish and chips.

Jay
14-07-2012, 02:03 PM
It makes no difference whether they printed it or not, this is the same paper that told us Craig White had wealth of the radar, he was a billionaire. Its erse wipe paper, not good enough for fish and chips.

I am not sticking up for the paper BH I am just querying a story that no one can confirm even exists - maybe th OP is on the wind up. :dunno:

blackpoolhibs
14-07-2012, 02:10 PM
I am not sticking up for the paper BH I am just querying a story that no one can confirm even exists - maybe th OP is on the wind up. :dunno:

I know Mrs S, :greengrin its not even worth worrying about in my opinion, just the west coast media sticking the boot in again, with no facts to back any of this up. I keep sending emails to every radio programme and newspaper reporter, asking who the last club was to go to the wall when they were relegated?

Surely having no games against either sevco AND celtic would create this armageddon they keep telling us will happen, and thats without one of them?

--------
14-07-2012, 02:33 PM
The Sun can **** off.

I 100% hope that not one club, including Hearts, goes into administration whilst the huns are off on their 'adventure'. That would show up this scaremongering for what it is.

WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT!

There is NEVER a bad time for the Yams to go down the tubes. The sooner the better.




I was in the same group as Steven at the Tuesday meeting. What he says in that interview is to my recollection a fair reflection of what we were told.

Rangers Newco in SFL3 means a much less favourable financial situation for the rest of the SPL than Ranger Newco in SFL1, mainly due to the loss of TV mioney, sponsorship money, and advertising revenue. Principles have their price.

What isn't being said, and should be said, is that the financial havoc this business has caused in Scottish football has been caused bu ONE club - Glasgow Rangers - and by the directors and office-bearers of that one club - people like Murray and Whit and Ogilvy and Bain - directors who either broke the law in the way they ran Glasgow Rangers or who shut their eyes to what was going on and failed to exercise due diligence and responsibility towards Glasgow Rangers and the rest of Scottish football.


As far as I understand the situation, it actually isn't the fault of Regan and Doncaster - though I agree they could have dealt with the matter better. I don't think it's Rod's fault, nor is it the fault of the SPL clubs who voted against Rangers Newco being given a place in the SPL to which they weren't entitled. This crisis in Scottish football is the fault of Murray, White, and the executive officers and administrators of Glasgow Rangers Football Club. I agree that the way the authorities have handled the crisis is open to criticism, but the primary responsibility lies with Rangers FC and and their oiffice-bearers, some of whom IMO should even now be on remand in Barlinnie.

Between the efforts of first Murray, then White, then the administrators to wriggle out of the clear responsibility borne by Rangers Oldco for numerous breaches of tax law and SFA/SPL regulations, the misinformation and distortions spread by the Glasgow press, the regular outbursts of outrage and bile from celebrity Huns, Ally McCoist, Uncle Walter and the rest of the Loyal community, I wonder whether anyone really understands exactly what's been going on or what still has to happen. I know I don't.

I think we're going to get these stories for a long while now - it's the red-top bumwipes sucking up to their Loyal readers to keep their cirulation high.

For the first time in History the Record, the Mail, the Sunm and the Star will actually have to admit that there's more to Scottish football than the OF in the SPL. They're going to have to find their way to Ochilview, Glebe Park, and Galabank. So we're going to haver to get used to this, and not fill this forum with outrage every time they print another stupid story about the Huns in Wanderland.

Yes, we're going to have to watch the pennies, but I don't think STF will let it get to administration unless administration is the best way forward for the club.

ancient hibee
14-07-2012, 02:34 PM
£4m mortgage taken out (HBOS) for the West Stand was granted subject to a "personal guarantee" from STF.



Absolute rubbish.

alexedwards
14-07-2012, 02:39 PM
Yeah we sure are... That's why PF is bringing in more players. I can categorically say that the Yams or even Killie have 100% more chance of this than us.

And that is the reason I don't buy that rag

why the hell would romanov put hearts in admin? - it just won't happen.

greenginger
14-07-2012, 02:52 PM
why the hell would romanov put hearts in admin? - it just won't happen.



Romanov would'nt but HMRC still have an outstanding assessment on the Hearts ( as reported in their accounts to June 2011 ) and they might be getting a bit tired of the endless arguement and counter-arguement and force the issue. The might wait until the £ 800,000 transfer fee for Trigger lands to make sure there is something worth arresting.

Kaiser1962
14-07-2012, 02:58 PM
Absolute rubbish.


Is it?


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/hibs-reveal-depth-of-farmer-s-investment-1-887467

"Sir Tom had personally guaranteed a 4m mortgage with the Bank of Scotland to develop the new West Stand"

Kaiser1962
14-07-2012, 03:08 PM
What isn't being said, and should be said, is that the financial havoc this business has caused in Scottish football has been caused bu ONE club - Glasgow Rangers - and by the directors and office-bearers of that one club - people like Murray and Whit and Ogilvy and Bain - directors who either broke the law in the way they ran Glasgow Rangers or who shut their eyes to what was going on and failed to exercise due diligence and responsibility towards Glasgow Rangers and the rest of Scottish football.


As far as I understand the situation, it actually isn't the fault of Regan and Doncaster - though I agree they could have dealt with the matter better. I don't think it's Rod's fault, nor is it the fault of the SPL clubs who voted against Rangers Newco being given a place in the SPL to which they weren't entitled. This crisis in Scottish football is the fault of Murray, White, and the executive officers and administrators of Glasgow Rangers Football Club. I agree that the way the authorities have handled the crisis is open to criticism, but the primary responsibility lies with Rangers FC and and their oiffice-bearers, some of whom IMO should even now be on remand in Barlinnie.



You are absolutely spot on with that Doddie. :top marks

Baldy Foghorn
14-07-2012, 05:12 PM
I agree with most of what BF said in that, apart from what he said about the punishment at the end. I wish folk would stop this practise, we are talking about a new club here, not the old Rangers.

They have not been parachuted into the 3rd division, this new club have applied to join the SFL as a new company, and thats been agreed.

And the only logical place any new club joins is at the bottom tier, they have not been dumped/punished or parachuted into the bottom league, they have applied to join and have been accepted.

Cheers BH, I never mentioned Derhun being punished, although I said I hoped we would not be punished as a consequence of the actions of others.....

As an aside, EEN knew I was Chairman of a Supporter's Branch, however, they tagged fan's chief to story, which is exactly what happens with Mike Riley....The thoughts I gave in the interview, where my opinions solely, so did not see the need for EEN to give me a title...

Baldy Foghorn
14-07-2012, 05:15 PM
I wonder if this is where this spurious rumour started?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-in-division-three-fall-out-for-hibs-worries-fans-chief-1-2412458

Please tell me how an unsubstantiated report about us being on the brink of administration, could be derived from anything I said in the attached article?:confused::confused:

The Falcon
14-07-2012, 07:09 PM
£4m mortgage taken out (HBOS) for the West Stand was granted subject to a "personal guarantee" from STF.


Absolute rubbish.


Is it?


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/hibs-reveal-depth-of-farmer-s-investment-1-887467

"Sir Tom had personally guaranteed a 4m mortgage with the Bank of Scotland to develop the new West Stand"


Is that a "yes he did" then?

CropleyWasGod
14-07-2012, 07:14 PM
Romanov would'nt but HMRC still have an outstanding assessment on the Hearts ( as reported in their accounts to June 2011 ) and they might be getting a bit tired of the endless arguement and counter-arguement and force the issue. The might wait until the £ 800,000 transfer fee for Trigger lands to make sure there is something worth arresting.

HMFC's situation is different. HMRC wouldn't put them into administration. They would go straight for a winding-up, as they have in the past.

In any event, they would probably get sod-all, as Romanov/UBIG/UKIO/whoever have security over Tynie. (Cav will be along soon to explain the intricacies).

givescotlandfreedom
15-07-2012, 12:50 AM
Total scaremongering but as long as folk keep buying the Sun and subscribing to Sky they'll keep on attacking us.

Leishy1995
15-07-2012, 03:37 AM
Lol.

Beefster
15-07-2012, 07:27 AM
As an aside, EEN knew I was Chairman of a Supporter's Branch, however, they tagged fan's chief to story, which is exactly what happens with Mike Riley....The thoughts I gave in the interview, where my opinions solely, so did not see the need for EEN to give me a title...

Because they were seeking your opinion as a 'fans chief' / 'branch chairman'. No offence but If you weren't a chairman of a branch, it's highly unlikely that they'd have asked your opinion.

ozzie
15-07-2012, 08:13 AM
Sunday mail now has ict, killie, motherwell, st mirren and dundee untd going into admin within 3 weeks although on the same page it also quotes untd as saying an spl2 is not acceptable, strange thing to say if they are going into admin.
Is there any club the media have not said are in financial difficulty? Also why are we going on a tour abroad if we do not have the money to fund it?
Usual lazy journalism.

Part/Time Supporter
15-07-2012, 08:16 AM
Sunday mail now has ict, killie, motherwell, st mirren and dundee untd going into admin within 3 weeks although on the same page it also quotes untd as saying an spl2 is not acceptable, strange thing to say if they are going into admin.
Is there any club the media have not said are in financial difficulty? Also why are we going on a tour abroad if we do not have the money to fund it?
Usual lazy journalism.

The administration rumours are all based on the assumption that Sky and ESPN won't pay the next lot of TV money, which is due on 7 August. That goes for all of the clubs - if the money is paid as normal in the coming season, they will all be okay.

What little public comment there has been from Sky and ESPN suggest that they won't withdraw immediately. What they would look to change is the next TV contract, which is due to start in the 2013/14 season.

The Falcon
15-07-2012, 08:25 AM
Sunday mail now has ict, killie, motherwell, st mirren and dundee untd going into admin within 3 weeks although on the same page it also quotes untd as saying an spl2 is not acceptable, strange thing to say if they are going into admin.
Is there any club the media have not said are in financial difficulty? Also why are we going on a tour abroad if we do not have the money to fund it?
Usual lazy journalism.

Are all clubs not in "financial difficulty" of sorts though? Even before Rangers went mams up? None of them are making any money to speak of and haven't for years.


They seem to forget that it was their beloved Rangers criminality that has brought all this to a head.

VickMackie
15-07-2012, 05:07 PM
What I don't get is that we have an existing deal. Does this include the OF games are a must or is it just for the proposed deal?

Part/Time Supporter
15-07-2012, 05:13 PM
What I don't get is that we have an existing deal. Does this include the OF games are a must or is it just for the proposed deal?

Both. The assumption underpinning the immediate financial collapse rumours is that Sky and ESPN will immediately withdraw from the existing contract, because the absence of Rangers would allow them to do so. I don't think that's very likely because a) they won't save that much money, b) they would have to televise something else at short notice (and wouldn't be able to show more English football as that is contractually limited) and c) there would likely be a PR backlash against Sky and ESPN for brazenly interfering in the internal affairs of a sporting body. English media would take more of an interest then because it would raise the obvious parallel of what would they would do if a big English club went completely bust.

Just Alf
15-07-2012, 05:35 PM
Both. The assumption underpinning the immediate financial collapse rumours is that Sky and ESPN will immediately withdraw from the existing contract, because the absence of Rangers would allow them to do so. I don't think that's very likely because a) they won't save that much money, b) they would have to televise something else at short notice (and wouldn't be able to show more English football as that is contractually limited) and c) there would likely be a PR backlash against Sky and ESPN for brazenly interfering in the internal affairs of a sporting body. English media would take more of an interest then because it would raise the obvious parallel of what would they would do if a big English club went completely bust.

And
D) Sky and ESPN have already said (although reported very low key in e media) that they'll continue to the end of the respective contracts then re-negotiate
And
E) BT Vision are actively looking to enhance their UK offering so the cosy SKY/ESPN split up they used to drive down the price last time won't happen next time around :greengrin

ScottB
15-07-2012, 05:50 PM
The administration rumours are all based on the assumption that Sky and ESPN won't pay the next lot of TV money, which is due on 7 August. That goes for all of the clubs - if the money is paid as normal in the coming season, they will all be okay.

What little public comment there has been from Sky and ESPN suggest that they won't withdraw immediately. What they would look to change is the next TV contract, which is due to start in the 2013/14 season.

This has been my opinion all along.

Sky won't change the current deal, even if there is some clause allowing it, and I'm not convinced there is.

Why not?

Because it would open up a ****storm for them. They could lose many, many subscribers, they are already subject to government investigations, appearing to try and exert control over sport, in favour of a team in Rangers situation, by accident or design would not help their current situation.

Tossing us our next instalment of spare change won't cost them much, but will get them solid PR and keep everyone happy for a year while they hammer out a new contract.

ScottB
15-07-2012, 05:53 PM
And
D) Sky and ESPN have already said (although reported very low key in e media) that they'll continue to the end of the respective contracts then re-negotiate
And
E) BT Vision are actively looking to enhance their UK offering so the cosy SKY/ESPN split up they used to drive down the price last time won't happen next time around :greengrin

ESPN now have no football at all, can't see them coming back in to show just Scottish games. BT could well be interested for the same reasons ESPN were, but nothing whatsoever to stop BT and Sky kicking in a joint bid at whatever amount they fancy.

The SPL had no position of strength to negotiate from last time, it sure as hell doesn't have one this time!

DAVE1875
15-07-2012, 06:45 PM
Haven't read the thread fully so sorry if a post similar to this has already been posted


If a SPL club does go into admin it's just going to attract bigger crowds. Don't think any of the remaining clubs bar Hearts has a massively huge debt to which they aren't able to pay the players. Also I'm certain there are quite a few people with a good fortune out there who would be tempted to launch a rescue takeover bid of an SPL club.

Just Alf
15-07-2012, 06:53 PM
ESPN now have no football at all, can't see them coming back in to show just Scottish games. BT could well be interested for the same reasons ESPN were, but nothing whatsoever to stop BT and Sky kicking in a joint bid at whatever amount they fancy.

The SPL had no position of strength to negotiate from last time, it sure as hell doesn't have one this time!

I can set your mind at ease re the Sky/BT thing....... They've been at logger heads thru the courts due to Sky's practices at capturing sporting rights and making that available to other distributers... They ain't friends!

ScottB
15-07-2012, 07:22 PM
I can set your mind at ease re the Sky/BT thing....... They've been at logger heads thru the courts due to Sky's practices at capturing sporting rights and making that available to other distributers... They ain't friends!

Interesting stuff! Thanks! :agree:

Baldy Foghorn
15-07-2012, 07:34 PM
Because they were seeking your opinion as a 'fans chief' / 'branch chairman'. No offence but If you weren't a chairman of a branch, it's highly unlikely that they'd have asked your opinion.

Awww you are kidding, I thought it was because David Hardie thought I was hot:rolleyes:

FromTheCapital
15-07-2012, 09:29 PM
I hope that Hearts don't get liquidated! I wouldn't cry if they did but even though were... not the best in them, I still love the derbies! :thumbsup:

Moulin Yarns
16-07-2012, 07:54 AM
Please tell me how an unsubstantiated report about us being on the brink of administration, could be derived from anything I said in the attached article?:confused::confused:

Not so much what you said, more how the Scotsman headlined it.

Phil MaGlass
16-07-2012, 08:03 AM
Why dont all SPL clubs just go into administration, thewe can all lose points and still stay in the premier while putting another two fingers up to the oldco buns.

davemcbain
16-07-2012, 08:08 AM
At the bottom of a bbc article ths morning - Sky have made no comment yet ESPN wants "to have a continued relationship with Scottish football".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18850864 Last line of the article.

Guess what? they got it cheap, they know it's cheap and no good reason for them to walk.....and if they did, they could kiss goodbye to my monthly subscription.


The interesting thing will be given the current deal (where allegedly 2 clubs got the lions share of the deal) - will the Rangers share be split evenly across the league? If so, is there just a chance everyone will actually be better off with them gone?

greenginger
16-07-2012, 08:26 AM
At the bottom of a bbc article ths morning - Sky have made no comment yet ESPN wants "to have a continued relationship with Scottish football".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18850864 Last line of the article.

Guess what? they got it cheap, they know it's cheap and no good reason for them to walk.....and if they did, they could kiss goodbye to my monthly subscription.


The interesting thing will be given the current deal (where allegedly 2 clubs got the lions share of the deal) - will the Rangers share be split evenly across the league? If so, is there just a chance everyone will actually be better off with them gone?


The whole T V pot is going to be split more evenly now the uglies are no longer in a position to dictate finances of the SPL.

Beefster
16-07-2012, 09:40 AM
Awww you are kidding, I thought it was because David Hardie thought I was hot:rolleyes:

So you know they're asking your opinion because you chair a branch but are surprised when they subsequently they label you as such?

ginger_rice
16-07-2012, 09:51 AM
Awww you are kidding, I thought it was because David Hardie thought I was hot:rolleyes:

I reckon you need to change your user name to Shaka Zulu now BF :greengrin

1875STEVE
16-07-2012, 10:04 AM
Can't see it posted elswhere, but do folk remember, according to our last accounts, we have a bank account with £2.5m sitting in it.

There's no danger we are even close to administration. Total scare mongering.

It was more a few years back, think it was about £5-6m, but im pretty sure the rest went towards the east stand.

Baldy Foghorn
16-07-2012, 10:34 AM
Not so much what you said, more how the Scotsman headlined it.

Ah, apologies then PH:aok:

Baldy Foghorn
16-07-2012, 10:37 AM
So you know they're asking your opinion because you chair a branch but are surprised when they subsequently they label you as such?

They reported the title of Branch Chairman, which is fine by me, however, to be labelled a "fans chief" is something entirely different, and tends to lead to fans saying "he doesn't speak for me", which again I never claimed I was, just purely my opinion, some will agree and some will disagree.....

lapsedhibee
16-07-2012, 01:39 PM
They reported the title of Branch Chairman, which is fine by me, however, to be labelled a "fans chief" is something entirely different, and tends to lead to fans saying "he doesn't speak for me", which again I never claimed I was, just purely my opinion, some will agree and some will disagree.....

I agree with the bit in bold.

1875STEVE
16-07-2012, 02:12 PM
Haven't read the thread fully so sorry if a post similar to this has already been posted


If a SPL club does go into admin it's just going to attract bigger crowds. Don't think any of the remaining clubs bar Hearts has a massively huge debt to which they aren't able to pay the players. Also I'm certain there are quite a few people with a good fortune out there who would be tempted to launch a rescue takeover bid of an SPL club.

Killie have huge debts for the size of club they are, pretty sure its circa 10m, for a club with a gate of what?? 4, maybe 5,000???

Dundee Utd halved their debt just by selling Goodwillie, think theirs is at about £3m.

St Mirren sold Love Street for a huge sum, built a new stadium and small training facilities, aswell as having x amount millions left over, id say they were as safe as house, no debt. (EDIT:Just checked, the sold Love Street to Tesco for £15m, bUt part of the deal was Tesco also have to build them a new stadium and training facilities. St Mirren pocketed £15m and paid off their debts with it, with quite a few millions left over).

Hearts & Killie,, I reckon would be the two biggest debts in the SPL now.

neilmartinrocks
16-07-2012, 03:42 PM
Killie have huge debts for the size of club they are, pretty sure its circa 10m, for a club with a gate of what?? 4, maybe 5,000???

Dundee Utd halved their debt just by selling Goodwillie, think theirs is at about £3m.

St Mirren sold Love Street for a huge sum, built a new stadium and small training facilities, aswell as having x amount millions left over, id say they were as safe as house, no debt. (EDIT:Just checked, the sold Love Street to Tesco for £15m, bUt part of the deal was Tesco also have to build them a new stadium and training facilities. St Mirren pocketed £15m and paid off their debts with it, with quite a few millions left over).

Hearts & Killie,, I reckon would be the two biggest debts in the SPL now.

iirc st. johnstone done the same deal with asda when the sold muirton and moved to mcdairmid new ground no debt. in fact they were also gifted the site.

judas
16-07-2012, 06:40 PM
Is there a link to this?

Given that Ipox and Muppet park have just sold for £1.5m, I am interested as to how much folk think Hibs "assetts" are worth in the real world?


I would expect the liquidators to look closely at D+P's disposal of rangers assetts but nonetheless, I would imagine they can put up some sort of argument or they wouldnt have done it.

Certainly more than 1.5m. Have you been in Govan lately? Hardly a good real estate prospect. I am not saying our ground is in Beverly hills, but it is a few leagues ahead (excuse the pun). As for our training facility. Not worth a sook really and possibly an overhead we could live without.