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happiehibbie
09-07-2012, 07:18 AM
I was wondering if anyone knew how many ST we have sold for this season did the cup final help has signiong
McPake helped

EK_Hibs
09-07-2012, 09:22 AM
I would guess around 5 thousand?

Pretty Boy
09-07-2012, 09:28 AM
Think Scott Lindsay said recently at a meeting with fans that 2k from last year didn't renew but didn't elaborate on how many were sold in the run up to the cup final to counteract this.

I'd guess somewhere between 5000 and 7000 ST holders for next season which is pretty poor but hardly surprising.

PatHead
09-07-2012, 10:11 AM
On another thread it was mentioned that Scott Lindsay said 5000 had been sold. Would assume a large number of these would be children/students and not fill price. Don't think many more will be sold until Rangers situation resolved.

DH1875
09-07-2012, 03:50 PM
Did we not sell something like 12k in the run up to the final :devil:.

Hibernia&Alba
09-07-2012, 05:49 PM
We should always be trying to sell at least ten thousand season tickets. It isn't a fanciful target for a captial city club. Times are hard due to the economy and the team has been pish for a few years, but with twenty thousand seats to fill, the club needs to find imaginative ways of selling more. A decent team to watch would be a start. It's sad to see thousands of empty seats on matchday. Whether the Rangers crisis is having a significant impact is hard to say just yet.

sahib
09-07-2012, 10:14 PM
We should always be trying to sell at least ten thousand season tickets. It isn't a fanciful target for a captial city club. Times are hard due to the economy and the team has been pish for a few years, but with twenty thousand seats to fill, the club needs to find imaginative ways of selling more. A decent team to watch would be a start. It's sad to see thousands of empty seats on matchday. Whether the Rangers crisis is having a significant impact is hard to say just yet.

Plucking numbers from the air here, but would 10K season tickets not give us a very high average gate?

Andy74
11-07-2012, 06:52 AM
Something to think about:

Current season tickets sales are at about 6800. Some more renewals expected nearer the start as traditionally it picks up a wee bit.

Hibs sold a whole 3 season tickets in the days following voting No to Newco.

The interesting bit is after VAT the average season ticket gives Hibs about £200.

You can do the sums on that. That gives about £1.3m of funding for wages.

Last years staff salaries were in the region of £4m.

Bob Box Fish
11-07-2012, 07:02 AM
6800 is good considering the dross that's been on offer at ER over the last few years coupled with the cup final result.

mcvie7
11-07-2012, 07:07 AM
Something to think about:

Current season tickets sales are at about 6800. Some more renewals expected nearer the start as traditionally it picks up a wee bit.

Hibs sold a whole 3 season tickets in the days following voting No to Newco.

The interesting bit is after VAT the average season ticket gives Hibs about £200.

You can do the sums on that. That gives about £1.3m of funding for wages.

Last years staff salaries were in the region of £4m.

how do you know it's 6800 sold?

Jones28
11-07-2012, 07:08 AM
6800? Wow, thought it would struggle to get to 5000!

All things considered 6800 is pretty good.

In terms of wages being at £4.1m P/S, season tickets can't be the only way Hibs are funding wages surely? Walk-ups, sponsership and TV must cover more than day-to-day running costs. If it was then Hibs (and every other club apart from Rangers) would be cutting their cloth accordingly.

3pm
11-07-2012, 07:11 AM
Where's the £200 figure from?

Part/Time Supporter
11-07-2012, 07:37 AM
Where's the £200 figure from?

Work out the average price of a ST (ie factor in concessions) and then strip out 1/6 for VAT. For instance, if half are paying full price of ~£400 and half are paying ~£100, that gives an average of £250 gross. VAT element of that is £42 = £208 net revenue to Hibs.

flash
11-07-2012, 08:32 AM
Never mind there are hundreds if not thousands just waiting to renew if Newco get sent to Division 3. Aye so they will.

Kris1875
11-07-2012, 09:05 AM
Something to think about:

Current season tickets sales are at about 6800. Some more renewals expected nearer the start as traditionally it picks up a wee bit.

Hibs sold a whole 3 season tickets in the days following voting No to Newco.

The interesting bit is after VAT the average season ticket gives Hibs about £200.

You can do the sums on that. That gives about £1.3m of funding for wages.

Last years staff salaries were in the region of £4m.

Is this fact or a knowledgable guess ?

brydekirk
11-07-2012, 09:19 AM
Never mind there are hundreds if not thousands just waiting to renew if Newco get sent to Division 3. Aye so they will.

Plenty on here saying they will.

Andy74
11-07-2012, 09:20 AM
Is this fact or a knowledgable guess ?

Scott Lindsay last night.

matty_f
11-07-2012, 09:21 AM
Is this fact or a knowledgable guess ?

Fact. :agree:

Saorsa
11-07-2012, 09:22 AM
Scott Lindsay last night.Is this £4 Million you mention playing staff costs or all staff costs?

Andy74
11-07-2012, 09:23 AM
Is this £4 Million you mention playing staff costs or all staff costs?

Don't know that.

Saorsa
11-07-2012, 09:37 AM
Don't know that.So a bit vague and no really all the info again then? If that's the total staff cost (and I suspect it is) why mention that figure in relation tae ST sales if they are only supposed tae be for the player budget.

Stevie Reid
11-07-2012, 09:40 AM
Pretty chuffed with 6800.

Andy74
11-07-2012, 09:41 AM
So a bit vague and no really all the info again then? If that's the total staff cost (and I suspect it is) why mention that figure in relation tae ST sales if they are only supposed tae be for the player budget.

To be fair it was just a chat and I just can't recall if he said staff costs or player costs. Either way we have to meet them and obviously knowing you have £1.3m or so is a start but it's not a huge figure to be able to work out your budget on.

I thin your answer is an indication of some of the stuff wrong here - it's just some information and seems to be trearted with some sort of contempt or a suggestion that something is being held back. This needs sorted, by us as well as the club.

matty_f
11-07-2012, 09:47 AM
So a bit vague and no really all the info again then? If that's the total staff cost (and I suspect it is) why mention that figure in relation tae ST sales if they are only supposed tae be for the player budget.

It was more to illustrate what the club are up against. I took it to mean the overall wage bill. It's still relevant. You have to realise that nobd at the club is trying to pull the wool over our eyes here.
There's not a hidden agenda to try and manipulate figures to trick us all into doing something.
We do not have a lot of money. We are going to post another loss this year. The club needs to find more income from somewhere. The ideal is that we get Fenlon putting a team on the pitch that puts bums on seats in the stands.
It would be hugely beneficial to the club if the 2000-odd that haven't renewed did so, and soon. And if anyone else wanted to get a new season ticket then that'd help too.

Ozyhibby
11-07-2012, 09:54 AM
Something to think about:


Hibs sold a whole 3 season tickets in the days following voting No to Newco.



The Rangers situation has not been played out yet and anybody who was putting of buying a ticket will wait and see what finally happens.
As soon as I'm satisfied that the correct decision has been reached then I'll be down at Easter road purchasing two season tickets.

Saorsa
11-07-2012, 09:57 AM
To be fair it was just a chat and I just can't recall if he said staff costs or player costs. Either way we have to meet them and obviously knowing you have £1.3m or so is a start but it's not a huge figure to be able to work out your budget on.

I thin your answer is an indication of some of the stuff wrong here - it's just some information and seems to be trearted with some sort of contempt or a suggestion that something is being held back. This needs sorted, by us as well as the club.I agree that it needs tae change but that mistrust exists IMO exactly because they have previous for telling half truths and no the whole story.

Gatecrasher
11-07-2012, 10:01 AM
Under the circumstances 6800 ST's is quite good, hopefully another course of signings and rangers being punted will shift a few more

Stevie Reid
11-07-2012, 10:06 AM
This is what I was alluding to in my post recently in the 'How do we fill a 250K hole?' thread - given the disastrous season we had last year, and the horrific end to it, not to mention the massive uncertainty about the "Rangers" situation, 6800 is incredibly good.

If the Buns go down to the 3rd and we make a few more exciting signings, we may well end up with around 9000 ST sales - and thereby emphasising just how big a club we are at the perfect time to do it.

Kris1875
11-07-2012, 10:27 AM
Scott Lindsay last night.

Cheers , quite impressed with the 6800 considering the last few years problems. Though cash wise it clearly isn't enough hopefully more folk will buy/renew !!

blackpoolhibs
11-07-2012, 10:29 AM
How many did we sell last season?

Chuck Rhoades
11-07-2012, 10:46 AM
It was mentioned last night, but I think Hibs should extend the Payment Plan option. Reintroduce it in the next fortnight and give people before the day of the Hearts match to apply. Surely shift a few more STs as there are a lot out there who can't afford to shell £400 in a oner.

Stevie Reid
11-07-2012, 10:59 AM
It was mentioned last night, but I think Hibs should extend the Payment Plan option. Reintroduce it in the next fortnight and give people before the day of the Hearts match to apply. Surely shift a few more STs as there are a lot out there who can't afford to shell £400 in a oner.

It's a good idea - I couldn't afford one without the payment plan.

Kris1875
11-07-2012, 11:15 AM
It was mentioned last night, but I think Hibs should extend the Payment Plan option. Reintroduce it in the next fortnight and give people before the day of the Hearts match to apply. Surely shift a few more STs as there are a lot out there who can't afford to shell £400 in a oner.

So are hibs considering it or was it a mute subject ? I was lucky enough to have the cash upfront this year but I know a few folk that would take one if the plan opened up again .

--------
11-07-2012, 11:21 AM
Never mind there are hundreds if not thousands just waiting to renew if Newco get sent to Division 3. Aye so they will.


And iof Rangers go to Div Three, we can say goodbye to ALL the TV money and ALL the corporate advertising and sponsorship that the current TV exposure brings in.

Whatever happens, the few years are going to hurt, so there had better be thousands waiting to renew rather than hundreds 'cos principles cost money.

Chuck Rhoades
11-07-2012, 11:24 AM
It was suggested, no ideas; however we could start up a poll here and on the bounce for numbers as evidence to the club that it would shift STs.

3pm
11-07-2012, 11:34 AM
Anybody suggest the possibility of paying monthly on an ongoing basis as you do for a gym membership for example? Someone posted that on here, thought it was a good idea.

matty_f
11-07-2012, 11:48 AM
So a bit vague and no really all the info again then? If that's the total staff cost (and I suspect it is) why mention that figure in relation tae ST sales if they are only supposed tae be for the player budget.

It was more to illustrate what the club are up against. I took it to mean the overall wage bill. It's still relevant. You have to realise that nobd at the club is trying to pull the wool over our eyes here.
There's not a hidden agenda to try and manipulate figures to trick us all into doing something.
We do not have a lot of money. We are going to post another loss this year. The club needs to find more income from somewhere. The ideal is that we get Fenlon putting a team on the pitch that puts bums on seats in the stands.
It would be hugely beneficial to the club if the 2000-odd that haven't renewed did so, and soon. And if anyone else wanted to get a new season ticket then that'd help too.

S4uzee
11-07-2012, 11:51 AM
I will more than likely renew in the coming weeks however a good 4 minimum signings are still required. it would be beneficial to even offer the 2 for 1 shirt voucher or the cup top-up for those who haven't renewed as a further incentive. I am sure this would encourage at least a few more to renew considering the quality of the tops etc. Also what is going to happen regarding the free Old Firm tickets due to the rangers situation, I believe swaping this for Hearts would be a good idea to try and attract a bigger crowd as alot may not want to attend if they don't have a season ticket due to the debacle at the end of May

Andy74
11-07-2012, 11:59 AM
I will more than likely renew in the coming weeks however a good 4 minimum signings are still required. it would be beneficial to even offer the 2 for 1 shirt voucher or the cup top-up for those who haven't renewed as a further incentive. I am sure this would encourage at least a few more to renew considering the quality of the tops etc. Also what is going to happen regarding the free Old Firm tickets due to the rangers situation, I believe swaping this for Hearts would be a good idea to try and attract a bigger crowd as alot may not want to attend if they don't have a season ticket due to the debacle at the end of May

I'm not sure those that are currently sitting back waiting for others to fund the signings should then be getting any further incentives to renew.

Yes, encourage and make it easier for people to do so if they can but you can't have people not accepting the risk, waiting until things look fine and then getting something extra on top.

Part/Time Supporter
11-07-2012, 12:02 PM
How many did we sell last season?

Scotsman reported both 7000 and 7500 when talking about cup final ticket numbers. I guess this means it was somewhere between those two numbers.

S4uzee
11-07-2012, 12:04 PM
I'm not sure those that are currently sitting back waiting for others to fund the signings should then be getting any further incentives to renew.

Yes, encourage and make it easier for people to do so if they can but you can't have people not accepting the risk, waiting until things look fine and then getting something extra on top.
Why not? There are a lot of people hacked off with hibs as you know and many people I have spoken to have been season ticket holders for years who haven't renewed so IMO Hibs should definately be offering further incentives. And I am not sitting around waiting for others to fund signings

blackpoolhibs
11-07-2012, 12:04 PM
It was more to illustrate what the club are up against. I took it to mean the overall wage bill. It's still relevant. You have to realise that nobd at the club is trying to pull the wool over our eyes here.
There's not a hidden agenda to try and manipulate figures to trick us all into doing something.
We do not have a lot of money. We are going to post another loss this year. The club needs to find more income from somewhere. The ideal is that we get Fenlon putting a team on the pitch that puts bums on seats in the stands.
It would be hugely beneficial to the club if the 2000-odd that haven't renewed did so, and soon. And if anyone else wanted to get a new season ticket then that'd help too.

You might be right Matty, although to the untrained eye it does come across as a little misleading? Rather than just telling us the figures we want to know, its bundled up into a figure nobody can break down. As for not misleading us, anyone remember the cup semi against them?

If its true we have sold 6800 season tickets, how many is that short from last season?

RyeSloan
11-07-2012, 12:25 PM
You might be right Matty, although to the untrained eye it does come across as a little misleading? Rather than just telling us the figures we want to know, its bundled up into a figure nobody can break down. As for not misleading us, anyone remember the cup semi against them?

If its true we have sold 6800 season tickets, how many is that short from last season?


Jeez what is misleading about saying the wage bill is about £4m :confused: It's not as if the palyer budget & season ticket income is mutually exclusive from the rest of the club is it.

I think the point is quite clear...there wage costs of the club is substantially higher than the season ticket income so you cannot be expecting Hibs to be breaking the bank to make new signings because the income is not there from season tickets alone and it's anyone's guess as to how much further revenue will be earned in the year. Therefore the club will have to operate within a pretty strict limit based on previous experience and the probability of a revenue decrese because of the Rangers fiasco.

What else do you/we need to know?

blackpoolhibs
11-07-2012, 12:31 PM
Jeez what is misleading about saying the wage bill is about £4m :confused: It's not as if the palyer budget & season ticket income is mutually exclusive from the rest of the club is it.

I think the point is quite clear...there wage costs of the club is substantially higher than the season ticket income so you cannot be expecting Hibs to be breaking the bank to make new signings because the income is not there from season tickets alone and it's anyone's guess as to how much further revenue will be earned in the year. Therefore the club will have to operate within a pretty strict limit based on previous experience and the probability of a revenue decrese because of the Rangers fiasco.

What else do you/we need to know?

Whats misleading is we are told every penny we raise goes towards Pat Fenlons wage budget, we are then told the wage budget is £4m, and we have raised around £1.3m through ticket sales. Why are these amounts put together, if they have nothing to do with each other? Thats whats misleading in my opinion?

Andy74
11-07-2012, 12:31 PM
Why not? There are a lot of people hacked off with hibs as you know and many people I have spoken to have been season ticket holders for years who haven't renewed so IMO Hibs should definately be offering further incentives. And I am not sitting around waiting for others to fund signings

Ye, there are also people who were hacked off and did renew anyway, and got some rewards for it.

You've just said you could renew but are waiting for more signings. So, who is paying for those if not other people?

blackpoolhibs
11-07-2012, 12:35 PM
Ye, there are also people who were hacked off and did renew anyway, and got some rewards for it.

You've just said you could renew but are waiting for more signings. So, who is paying for those if not other people?

Its a stand off Andy, some folk are fed up putting up their money before they see whats on offer. And others are waiting on the Rangers situation resolving itself.

Perhaps our multi millionaire owner could put his hands in his pocket, and lead from the top for a change, rather than when we are struggling at the bottom of the league?

Saorsa
11-07-2012, 12:36 PM
Whats misleading is we are told every penny we raise goes towards Pat Fenlons wage budget, we are then told the wage budget is £4m, and we have raised around £1.3m through ticket sales. Why are these amounts put together, if they have nothing to do with each other? Thats whats misleading in my opinion?:agree: Spot on IMO. It was the club who separated the amounts in the first place by stating that all season ticket would go on the squad. I'd like tae ken how much short of the playing budget on the previous season that is or how much short it is of what the manager thinks he needs this season, not the overall wage bill. The other money they would have tae find elsewhere anyway if all the ST money is going tae the manager.

Andy74
11-07-2012, 12:37 PM
Whats misleading is we are told every penny we raise goes towards Pat Fenlons wage budget, we are then told the wage budget is £4m, and we have raised around £1.3m through ticket sales. Why are these amounts put together, if they have nothing to do with each other? Thats whats misleading in my opinion?

Eh? So, every penny of the £1.3 million doesn't go to the budget then?

Anyway, mental that this is yet another thing to have a go at.

Is it even worth wasting some time trying to address this stuff when people generally won't buy into it anyway? A lot of people, including club employees spent a good bit of their own time last night trying to help see how we can make stuff better and we got very open dialogue with them.

Why bother?

Andy74
11-07-2012, 12:38 PM
:agree: Spot on IMO. It was the club who separated the amounts in the first place by stating that all season ticket would go on the squad. I'd like tae ken how much short of the playing budget on the previous season that is or how much short it is of what the manager thinks he needs this season, not the overall wage bill. The other money they would have tae find elsewhere anyway if all the ST money is going tae the manager.

I give up.

blackpoolhibs
11-07-2012, 12:40 PM
Eh? So, every penny of the £1.3 million doesn't go to the budget then?

Anyway, mental that this is yet another thing to have a go at.

Is it even worth wasting some time trying to address this stuff when people generally won't buy into it anyway? A lot of people, including club employees spent a good bit of their own time last night trying to help see how we can make stuff better and we got very open dialogue with them.

Why bother?

Does the season ticket money go towards THE wage bill, or THE PLAYERS wage bill? If its the players wage bill, why are the two figures banded together?

Lucius Apuleius
11-07-2012, 12:43 PM
Something to think about:

Current season tickets sales are at about 6800. Some more renewals expected nearer the start as traditionally it picks up a wee bit.

Hibs sold a whole 3 season tickets in the days following voting No to Newco.

The interesting bit is after VAT the average season ticket gives Hibs about £200.

You can do the sums on that. That gives about £1.3m of funding for wages.

Last years staff salaries were in the region of £4m.

Surprised at that to be honest mate. I went down a couple of days later to buy mine. There was one guy before me buying the executive one and the lassie said they had sold a few. :confused:

BEEJ
11-07-2012, 01:00 PM
How many did we sell last season?


Scotsman reported both 7000 and 7500 when talking about cup final ticket numbers. I guess this means it was somewhere between those two numbers.
Must have been more like 8,500 STs last season given the figure we now have for this year's sales (6,800) plus the previously stated shortfall between the two seasons (2,000).

One would imagine that the shortfall is probably a bit lower by now.

happiehibbie
11-07-2012, 01:06 PM
Ok so here we go Chicken and Egg

for years we have had a substandard team on the pitch the worst i have seen I have watch Hibs now for over 40 yrs I have upgraded my season ticket this year I have spent 3k TBH.

now hibs always say ST money will always go on the budget for players really i dont care how the spend the money but its MR farmers company it is currently lacking investment he needs bums on seats he needs to spend money sorry invest money NOW why so that other people will spend on ST to come and watch the product on the Pitch.

Williamson once said if you want entertainment then go to the pictures we I answer that with if there is nothing worth watching I dont go !!!


We currently have all the facilites in place paid by selling all the best players we had brought through the ranks that avenue seems to have dried up now but season after season we get short sold ..RP and his team have made some poor appointments I hope PF gets it right WHY because we are slipping down down down.

My message to the Owner & Directors is please ask the owner to invest some money infact why not invest the same amount that the support raise by buying ST if and I mean IF the money we have spent on ST is for playing staff wages.

I decided that even though i had bought my ST I was not going back to watch hibs if they supported the NEW CO they did what we asked i will be going If however rangers get into the 1st division this season then we all see how corrupt the SPL SFA SFL are and that our neigbour across the street is correct MAFIA from Glasgow head quarters

Please renew your ticket

matty_f
11-07-2012, 01:09 PM
Whats misleading is we are told every penny we raise goes towards Pat Fenlons wage budget, we are then told the wage budget is £4m, and we have raised around £1.3m through ticket sales. Why are these amounts put together, if they have nothing to do with each other? Thats whats misleading in my opinion?
That might have been fair enough if we were talking about prepared statements, but this was off-the-cuff in conversation. A very open, honest and frank conversation at that.
There is nothing sinister in it.
What would be the benefit in trying to pull a fast one here?

Part/Time Supporter
11-07-2012, 01:10 PM
Must have been more like 8,500 STs last season given the figure we now have for this year's sales (6,800) plus the previously stated shortfall between the two seasons (2,000).

One would imagine that the shortfall is probably a bit lower by now.

The 5,000 figure that was banded about was based on 2,000 not renewing. A figure for the number of new ST holders wasn't given, although it was said that it was less than 2,000. Plus that was at least a couple of weeks ago now, ie before any new players were signed.

Andy74
11-07-2012, 01:13 PM
That might have been fair enough if we were talking about prepared statements, but this was off-the-cuff in conversation. A very open, honest and frank conversation at that.
There is nothing sinister in it.
What would be the benefit in trying to pull a fast one here?

And what fast one could be pulled when season ticket money is so far about £1.3m and we are clearly paying way more than that for players.

If the £4m or so was staff costs in total or player costs only I don't really care as the staff costs will be quite minor on top of playing costs and so we are still saying that all of that £1.3 million is used for players - and then some. Exactly what Hibs have always said.

This is one of the most nonsensical conversations I've ever had on here and after the good work last night it just makes me wonder why we all bother.

blackpoolhibs
11-07-2012, 01:14 PM
That might have been fair enough if we were talking about prepared statements, but this was off-the-cuff in conversation. A very open, honest and frank conversation at that.
There is nothing sinister in it.
What would be the benefit in trying to pull a fast one here?

Nor is their anything sinister in asking the question. :wink:

Kris1875
11-07-2012, 01:30 PM
And what fast one could be pulled when season ticket money is so far about £1.3m and we are clearly paying way more than that for players.

If the £4m or so was staff costs in total or player costs only I don't really care as the staff costs will be quite minor on top of playing costs and so we are still saying that all of that £1.3 million is used for players - and then some. Exactly what Hibs have always said.

This is one of the most nonsensical conversations I've ever had on here and after the good work last night it just makes me wonder why we all bother.

You clearly can't please everyone all of the time but what I'd say is at least the club and clearly the supporters that are giving up there own time are trying their best to steer the club in the right direction . The time for moaning and the he said she said stuff has to stop we all must pull together and help the club we all love even through gritted teeth get to where we should be . We asked for a no vote we've been given one we asked for transparency we're getting it ,Yes there's deep rooted problems but I believe they're getting addressed but these things take time . Now the seasons nearly starting so lets start backing all things Hibernian in any way we can .

S4uzee
11-07-2012, 02:01 PM
Ye, there are also people who were hacked off and did renew anyway, and got some rewards for it.

You've just said you could renew but are waiting for more signings. So, who is paying for those if not other people?

I said I probably will renew but just waiting to see. I can't see 2 season tickets of around £550 making such a difference. I also believe that all this stuff about every penny going towards pats budget is a bit misleading

BoltonHibee
11-07-2012, 02:03 PM
And what fast one could be pulled when season ticket money is so far about £1.3m and we are clearly paying way more than that for players.

If the £4m or so was staff costs in total or player costs only I don't really care as the staff costs will be quite minor on top of playing costs and so we are still saying that all of that £1.3 million is used for players - and then some. Exactly what Hibs have always said.

This is one of the most nonsensical conversations I've ever had on here and after the good work last night it just makes me wonder why we all bother.

Away and dry yer eyes, people are just asking questions, answer them if you can without your blubbering.

Andy74
11-07-2012, 02:43 PM
Away and dry yer eyes, people are just asking questions, answer them if you can without your blubbering.

I was sharing some useful information from what was an informal chat.

A bit of simple arithmetic shows how daft this thread now is.

We have £1.3m of season ticket money in, we have £4m of staff costs and people are suggesting they have haven't been told the trust about season ticket money?? There is a £2.7m shortfall between those two figures. Why would not all of it go to player budget as has been said many times?

Regardless it's indicative of what's wrong at Hibs just now and there seems no real effort to get away from attacking the club at any minor opportunity.

Seriously, why bother passing on any info with comments like your when you try?

BoltonHibee
11-07-2012, 03:00 PM
I was sharing some useful information from what was an informal chat.

A bit of simple arithmetic shows how daft this thread now is.

We have £1.3m of season ticket money in, we have £4m of staff costs and people are suggesting they have haven't been told the trust about season ticket money?? There is a £2.7m shortfall between those two figures. Why would not all of it go to player budget as has been said many times?

Regardless it's indicative of what's wrong at Hibs just now and there seems no real effort to get away from attacking the club at any minor opportunity.

Seriously, why bother passing on any info with comments like your when you try?

I think we are being mis led, you are keeping something back

down-the-slope
11-07-2012, 03:09 PM
Can I suggest that although this thread is apparently about ST's......its really a debate about trust....

A person could ask their partner where they have been when they get in....

Answer...'out with friends...'

One response to this can be 'did you have a nice time?'

Another could be 'who...where were you...what did you do?' followed by checking their phone for text messages / checking with those they claimed they were with

Trust / No Trust...

The Board / management / players (to say nothing of Games administrators) have a massive issue of a failure of trust among a significant number of supporters...the issue is really irelevant if the starting point is one of distrust...

last night (building on previous meeting) there was a lot of trust built between those attending...supporters / board members / club staff...as we openly and frankly debated issues facing the club. I would say even between supporters who previously did not know each other (other than though alter egos on MB's) there was signs of a growing trust.

None of the most probing of questions we all ask in places like this MB have been missed in these exchanges - some of it pretty uncomfortable in the early stages. However those involved despite often very different views have committed to trying to do something to move the club forward....some will read the above and trust that, others will read it and remain sceptical, even critical...that is life.

I would hope those of the latter view will see changes in time that will challenge those views.

Such were the frankness of exchanges and information shared that not all of it would be appropriate for a public forum...again that is a matter of trust

Saorsa
11-07-2012, 04:14 PM
I was sharing some useful information from what was an informal chat.

A bit of simple arithmetic shows how daft this thread now is.

We have £1.3m of season ticket money in, we have £4m of staff costs and people are suggesting they have haven't been told the trust about season ticket money?? There is a £2.7m shortfall between those two figures. Why would not all of it go to player budget as has been said many times?

Regardless it's indicative of what's wrong at Hibs just now and there seems no real effort to get away from attacking the club at any minor opportunity.

Seriously, why bother passing on any info with comments like your when you try?I never questioned anything about the truth about where the ST money was going. I questioned why the overall staff costs (which that 4 million figure was IMO) was (and always seems tae be) mentioned/linked with the money from ST sales (particularly when poor) when on the otherhand they say all that it is meant tae cover is squad costs. It's the way they seem tae go about things, they seem tae do that sort of thing all the time as though they're deliberately trying tae paint the gloomiest picture possible. Maybe it's in the hope it will get people tae part with their cash, I dinnae ken. Me I prefer totally upfront and honest about everything rather than half truths or any kind of emotional blackmail about how bad things will be for my team, because that sort of thing disnae wash with me. I ken your conversation was off the cuff but when they actually make statements the same things can be seen there IMO, a perfect example being when they first mentioned ST sales for the coming season. They said there were 2000 (or some such figure) people who never renewed, now that part may well be true but at the same time they never made any mention of the number of new ST holders they got off the back of the cup final, it might no be as many as they lost but it's still a good number. It's as though they were wanting people tae think they were actually 2000 down in total on last season which isnae the case. I'd like all the figures all the time and the whole truth, no just the bits they want tae tell you and half truths that paint the picture they want you tae see.

BEEJ
11-07-2012, 05:00 PM
The 5,000 figure that was banded about was based on 2,000 not renewing. A figure for the number of new ST holders wasn't given, although it was said that it was less than 2,000. Plus that was at least a couple of weeks ago now, ie before any new players were signed.
But SL apparently insisted that the net difference in sales from last season to this was 2,000. So if The Scotsman article is right, at the time SL said that he was looking at 5,500 season tickets sold.

If that is correct and the figure now is 6,800 then there has been a remarkable take up in STs over the month of June - almost to the point where we are at last year's figure now.

But the reaction to the SPL 'no' vote to newco was apprently just 3 or 4 STs sold. Would a better line not have been that actually ST sales have picked up through June to an encouraging extent and we're almost at last year's total? :dunno:

The other option is that the figure in The Scotsman article was wrong.

RyeSloan
11-07-2012, 05:02 PM
I never questioned anything about the truth about where the ST money was going. I questioned why the overall staff costs (which that 4 million figure was IMO) was (and always seems tae be) mentioned/linked with the money from ST sales (particularly when poor) when on the otherhand they say all that it is meant tae cover is squad costs. It's the way they seem tae go about things, they seem tae do that sort of thing all the time as though they're deliberately trying tae paint the gloomiest picture possible. Maybe it's in the hope it will get people tae part with their cash, I dinnae ken. Me I prefer totally upfront and honest about everything rather than half truths or any kind of emotional blackmail about how bad things will be for my team, because that sort of thing disnae wash with me. I ken your conversation was off the cuff but when they actually make statements the same things can be seen there IMO, a perfect example being when they first mentioned ST sales for the coming season. They said there were 2000 (or some such figure) people who never renewed, now that part may well be true but at the same time they never made any mention of the number of new ST holders they got off the back of the cup final, it might no be as many as they lost but it's still a good number. It's as though they were wanting people tae think they were actually 2000 down in total on last season which isnae the case. I'd like all the figures all the time and the whole truth, no just the bits they want tae tell you and half truths that paint the picture they want you tae see.

The club have always said all season ticket moeny goes to the playing squad. Seems a perfectly clear statement...a statement that was first made iirc agaisnt the backdrop of allegations of petrie/TF lining their pockets at the clubs expense.

To then link that to total wage costs of £4m is also perfectly sensible when trying to explain to the fans why we cannot and do not break our wage scale for certain players...it shows just how much money it costs to run the CLUB in terms of salaries and how little of that expense is covered by season ticket sales. That's not 'the gloomiest picture' its simply the picture.

As for season ticket numbers...never quite known why some fans are so determined to get exact numbers out of the club, what difference does it make and if the club feel being selective with certian stats will help sell more then more power to them I say!

Hibs have some of the most transparent accounts in the league, delivered on time and available for all to see....just what else do the fans need that is not included in there?

NAE NOOKIE
11-07-2012, 05:23 PM
Can I just wish all the folk who have bought a season ticket all the best for next season. Lets hope its better than last season.

C'mon the Hibs

matty_f
11-07-2012, 05:41 PM
BEEJ, Scott's original statement was that around 2000 people hadn't renewed, and that the shortfall hadn't been met in new uptakes. He didn't expand on that and wasn't asked to.
After that, Hibs.net conjecture took over :greengrin

Last night he gave a figure of 6.8k season tickets. We did sell new ones for cup final tickets, of which a large portion were kids ones (those being the cheapest available to guarantee a cup final ticket).
At the moment, the average yield per season ticket to the club is £200.
In terms of sums to figure out last season's sales, I don't think you'll be able to get a close figure going from the figures available.

If the 2k non-renewers have a change of heart, things would look much brighter for Fenlon.

cocopops1875
11-07-2012, 05:46 PM
And what fast one could be pulled when season ticket money is so far about £1.3m and we are clearly paying way more than that for players.

If the £4m or so was staff costs in total or player costs only I don't really care as the staff costs will be quite minor on top of playing costs and so we are still saying that all of that £1.3 million is used for players - and then some. Exactly what Hibs have always said.

This is one of the most nonsensical conversations I've ever had on here and after the good work last night it just makes me wonder why we all bother.

Did you not get involved with the Sock thread it was Awesome :greengrin

blackpoolhibs
11-07-2012, 05:50 PM
The club have always said all season ticket moeny goes to the playing squad. Seems a perfectly clear statement...a statement that was first made iirc agaisnt the backdrop of allegations of petrie/TF lining their pockets at the clubs expense.

To then link that to total wage costs of £4m is also perfectly sensible when trying to explain to the fans why we cannot and do not break our wage scale for certain players...it shows just how much money it costs to run the CLUB in terms of salaries and how little of that expense is covered by season ticket sales. That's not 'the gloomiest picture' its simply the picture.

As for season ticket numbers...never quite known why some fans are so determined to get exact numbers out of the club, what difference does it make and if the club feel being selective with certian stats will help sell more then more power to them I say!

Hibs have some of the most transparent accounts in the league, delivered on time and available for all to see....just what else do the fans need that is not included in there?

I dont see the relevance in telling me what agnes the tea lady earns, or what the groundsmen get, if we still have them? These wages are paid from other income, and have as much to do with season ticket sales, as police costs.

IWasThere2016
11-07-2012, 05:56 PM
I dont see the relevance in telling me what agnes the tea lady earns, or what the groundsmen get, if we still have them? These wages are paid from other income, and have as much to do with season ticket sales, as police costs.

Correct IMHO. As would be doing the arithmetic with last season STs x Avg ST price or the season before etc.

If STs were the be all and end all the club should not have expanded the capactity and created the option for ST holders to move to walk-up fans.

matty_f
11-07-2012, 06:02 PM
Correct IMHO. As would be doing the arithmetic with last season STs x Avg ST price or the season before etc.

If STs were the be all and end all the club should not have expanded the capactity and created the option for ST holders to move to walk-up fans.
:agree: They should have shown no forward thinking, removed seats from the existing stadium and removed the option for walk-ups, and just let the planning permission lapse, and wait for the building costs to rise again.

BoltonHibee
11-07-2012, 06:45 PM
How much do we expect to generate for the forthcoming season from;

A) television income
B) sponsorship
C) sell on clauses

Harder ones to answer

D) Walk up fans

Then we can have a bit of a clearer picture as to the overall staff costs and revenue

IWasThere2016
11-07-2012, 06:50 PM
:agree: They should have shown no forward thinking, removed seats from the existing stadium and removed the option for walk-ups, and just let the planning permission lapse, and wait for the building costs to rise again.

Or cut the 'spin' :wink: A pound is a pound after all. And besides 2,000 ST is £400k (based on earlier arithmetic) and we've off-loaded RPs wages, Fyffe's and a squad full of players :cb

matty_f
11-07-2012, 06:54 PM
Or cut the 'spin' :wink: A pound is a pound after all. And besides 2,000 ST is £400k (based on earlier arithmetic) and we've off-loaded RPs wages, Fyffe's and a squad full of players :cb

What spin?

Baldy Foghorn
11-07-2012, 07:00 PM
How much do we expect to generate for the forthcoming season from;

A) television income
B) sponsorship
C) sell on clauses

Harder ones to answer

D) Walk up fans

Then we can have a bit of a clearer picture as to the overall staff costs and revenue

The 4 points you have alluded to above, would be purely guesswork, no definitive answer could be given until issues are resolved. Who knows how many walk up fans we will have, given some will walk away from the game if Newco vote is the incorrect one, or whether games are changed to silly kick off times for the benefit of TV......I will lick my finger, stick it in the air, and eh, eh, eh I dont even want to guess

BoltonHibee
11-07-2012, 07:11 PM
The 4 points you have alluded to above, would be purely guesswork, no definitive answer could be given until issues are resolved. Who knows how many walk up fans we will have, given some will walk away from the game if Newco vote is the incorrect one, or whether games are changed to silly kick off times for the benefit of TV......I will lick my finger, stick it in the air, and eh, eh, eh I dont even want to guess

So none of that was discussed at the meeting of minds?

Pretty fundamental if you ask me and goes somewhere to bridging the gap between the £4m cost and the £1.3m revenue.

The Board must have some sort of budget/ forecast in place?

I know some of it will be " guess work".

I presume it's not just S/T money that goes into the pot for players?

Baldy Foghorn
11-07-2012, 07:17 PM
So none of that was discussed at the meeting of minds?

Pretty fundamental if you ask me and goes somewhere to bridging the gap between the £4m cost and the £1.3m revenue.

The Board must have some sort of budget/ forecast in place?

I know some of it will be " guess work".

I presume it's not just S/T money that goes into the pot for players?

Do you really think the Board would discuss key money issues with us?? Im all for transparency on things, but also aware that some issues are confidential and not for public consumption....

BoltonHibee
11-07-2012, 07:22 PM
Do you really think the Board would discuss key money issues with us?? Im all for transparency on things, but also aware that some issues are confidential and not for public consumption....

I'm not sure, I don't know what happens at the meetings or what the objectives are.

But why share the staff costs, and the season ticket revenue and leave it at that?

Seems a bit pointless to me...

lord bunberry
11-07-2012, 07:23 PM
The club have always said all season ticket moeny goes to the playing squad. Seems a perfectly clear statement...a statement that was first made iirc agaisnt the backdrop of allegations of petrie/TF lining their pockets at the clubs expense.

To then link that to total wage costs of £4m is also perfectly sensible when trying to explain to the fans why we cannot and do not break our wage scale for certain players...it shows just how much money it costs to run the CLUB in terms of salaries and how little of that expense is covered by season ticket sales. That's not 'the gloomiest picture' its simply the picture.

As for season ticket numbers...never quite known why some fans are so determined to get exact numbers out of the club, what difference does it make and if the club feel being selective with certian stats will help sell more then more power to them I say!

Hibs have some of the most transparent accounts in the league, delivered on time and available for all to see....just what else do the fans need that is not included in there?


The link between the £1.3m season ticket money and the £4m wage bill is pointless. It would have been better to give the playing staffs total wage as that's were the season ticket money is going.

Baldy Foghorn
11-07-2012, 07:32 PM
I'm not sure, I don't know what happens at the meetings or what the objectives are.

But why share the staff costs, and the season ticket revenue and leave it at that?

Seems a bit pointless to me...

Fair enough BH.....I'd imagine they don't know the full staff costs as yet, as players have to be added still. We will see the staffing costs, turnover etc etc once the accounts are published......There are things that the club would not want to disclose for example, we have £100,000 left to try and get a striker and a.n.other, sort of sends out the wrong signals IMO

BoltonHibee
11-07-2012, 07:42 PM
Fair enough BH.....I'd imagine they don't know the full staff costs as yet, as players have to be added still. We will see the staffing costs, turnover etc etc once the accounts are published......There are things that the club would not want to disclose for example, we have £100,000 left to try and get a striker and a.n.other, sort of sends out the wrong signals IMO

I agree with you regarding the sensitivity of financial information as that then leads to being on the back foot when it comes to player/ agent negotiation.

What I don't understand is why they give out the S/T revenue and the entire staffing costs.

It's absolutely irrelevant in isolation, and I can only assume therefore that it is meant for the group to take it back to supporters as a scaremongering tactic as someone else has alluded to I think in this thread.

IWasThere2016
11-07-2012, 07:58 PM
C'mon M - the Board are very selective with their soundbites and how each statement in made...

SneakersO'Toole
11-07-2012, 08:00 PM
and I can only assume therefore that it is meant for the group to take it back to supporters as a scaremongering tactic as someone else has alluded to I think in this thread.

Not everyone thinks like you, DD and BH though so could it be perhaps, that actually this isn't the case. :rolleyes:

BoltonHibee
11-07-2012, 08:01 PM
C'mon M - the Board are very selective with their soundbites and how each statement in made...

:)

And now using unsuspecting groups to deliver messages.

Very clever

Peevemor
11-07-2012, 08:01 PM
C'mon M - the Board are very selective with their soundbites and how each statement in made...

No wonder - the way that every word is scrutinised on here.

SneakersO'Toole
11-07-2012, 08:02 PM
C'mon M - the Board are very selective with their soundbites and how each statement in made...

I'm intrigued to know, in your opinion, what was the boards message or hidden agenda with this 'soundbite' then?

Mikey
11-07-2012, 08:03 PM
No wonder - the way that every word is scrutinised on here.

Isn't "twisted" the word you're looking for?

BoltonHibee
11-07-2012, 08:04 PM
Not everyone thinks like you, DD and BH though so could it be perhaps, that actually this isn't the case. :rolleyes:

I'm a cynic when it comes to Petrie and the Hibs Board.

I find it laughable when they are calling on a fans group to " brainstorm" and " help". To me it says they haven't a ****ing clue what they are doing. A fact that I realised quite some time ago...

matty_f
11-07-2012, 08:41 PM
I'm not sure, I don't know what happens at the meetings or what the objectives are.But why share the staff costs, and the season ticket revenue and leave it at that?Seems a bit pointless to me...
I agree with you regarding the sensitivity of financial information as that then leads to being on the back foot when it comes to player/ agent negotiation. What I don't understand is why they give out the S/T revenue and the entire staffing costs.It's absolutely irrelevant in isolation, and I can only assume therefore that it is meant for the group to take it back to supporters as a scaremongering tactic as someone else has alluded to I think in this thread.
C'mon M - the Board are very selective with their soundbites and how each statement in made...The talk about the season tickets and the wage bill came out informally, it wasn't a soundbite or a carefully chosen piece of spin. It was just in conversation, we were in a small group (six of us, plus Scott Lindsay) and the conversation went off on a tangent where we started talking about season tickets and the potential at the club, looking back at Mowbray's time and the response he got from the fans. It wasn't planned and wasn't on the agenda, and Scott didn't direct the conversation onto it.Unfortunately one bit of information that's been shared has been picked up on, scrutinised and (IMHO) turned into something it's not.
I'm a cynic when it comes to Petrie and the Hibs Board. I find it laughable when they are calling on a fans group to " brainstorm" and " help". To me it says they haven't a ****ing clue what they are doing. A fact that I realised quite some time ago...Well somebody definitely doesn't have a ****ing clue. :rolleyes:

Tyler Durden
11-07-2012, 08:52 PM
I was sharing some useful information from what was an informal chat.

A bit of simple arithmetic shows how daft this thread now is.

We have £1.3m of season ticket money in, we have £4m of staff costs and people are suggesting they have haven't been told the trust about season ticket money?? There is a £2.7m shortfall between those two figures. Why would not all of it go to player budget as has been said many times?

Regardless it's indicative of what's wrong at Hibs just now and there seems no real effort to get away from attacking the club at any minor opportunity.

Seriously, why bother passing on any info with comments like your when you try?

To be clear, I'm not suggesting the club are trying to be misleading.

But this thread is getting bogged down in the funding gap between £1.3m and £4m. The £4m is no longer relevant - this must have been the staff costs for last year. We've now released the majority of the squad so I can't see how our costs are anywhere near that with the current staff. The board's job is to maximise our revenues to try and drive the playing budget up. They then project how much the playing budget can be each year. Personally I'm not really interested if it's £2m or £4m, I just want to see the budget used as effectively as possible. Motherwell managed to finish 3rd last year with a budget nowhere near £4m.

The board, IMO have done a lousy job in promoting/selling Season Tickets and resorted to begging tactics and directly linked the Season Ticket income to the playing budget. That was not new information to anyone, we obviously know the ticket cash goes toward the squad. Clearly the budget increases the more tickets we sell.

What the board should concentrate on is maximising the revenue. On the football side, there are positive early signs they're doing their bit IMO. Outside of season ticket revenue they seem lost and lacking in vision, again IMO.

Once Fenlon proves he can actually use whatever budget he has effectively, fans will begin to return and the budget increases. I've basically just stated the obvious for 3/4 paragraphs but can we move away from this debate that 1-2,000 fans choosing to potentially PATG rather than buy season tickets is materially holding the club back??

Fenlon and the board need to do their jobs and get on with it. The fans will respond if they do (to very loosely paraphrase Field of Dreams).

Beefster
11-07-2012, 09:13 PM
and after the good work last night it just makes me wonder why we all bother.

It's great that folk have spare time and care enough to help Hibs out but can we avoid any of this "oh, I don't know why we bother doing all this important work when you're all so ungrateful" bull**** please?

If you don't know why you're bothering, I'd suggest it might not be worthwhile bothering.

Andy74
11-07-2012, 09:18 PM
It's great that folk have spare time and care enough to help Hibs out but can we avoid any of this "oh, I don't know why we bother doing all this important work when you're all so ungrateful" bull**** please?

If you don't know why you're bothering, I'd suggest it might not be worthwhile bothering.

Yeah, probably not.

VickMackie
11-07-2012, 11:16 PM
I've read a few pages of this already and can I just say.....

We're reported 2,000 STs on last season. Down.
We're reported, as far as I can see, have taken 1.3 million in season tickets.

In say, the average of £12 per ticket, which I don't know if includes walk ups....

Another reported figures, from this thread, 6,800 x 12 x 19 = 1,550,000.

Replace the figure, reported 2,000 more, would only equal 2,000,000 from ST sales.

We lost 980,000, IIRC, last year, expecting the same.

Can I just say, can everyone stop greeting and accept we put good money into the club, it's dwindling coa we've been pish, if you don't like it move on.

One of the things that pees me off about this board is that people complain because other people don't put the money in to the club to increase the quality of player we sign so THEY get to watch better quality.

It's like me having a hobby and moaning others didn't want to pay to increase the standard of my enjoyment.

We want to watch, good, FAIR, football. Put your cash in and enjoy, if you don't, then stop.

Lost_Mackem
11-07-2012, 11:59 PM
There are two decent sized clubs in Edinburgh and the city has a population of almost half a million so how is it so difficult to put bums on seats?

BoltonHibee
12-07-2012, 05:08 AM
The talk about the season tickets and the wage bill came out informally, it wasn't a soundbite or a carefully chosen piece of spin. It was just in conversation, we were in a small group (six of us, plus Scott Lindsay) and the conversation went off on a tangent where we started talking about season tickets and the potential at the club, looking back at Mowbray's time and the response he got from the fans. It wasn't planned and wasn't on the agenda, and Scott didn't direct the conversation onto it.Unfortunately one bit of information that's been shared has been picked up on, scrutinised and (IMHO) turned into something it's not. Well somebody definitely doesn't have a ****ing clue. :rolleyes:

You've rapidly grown into a major board apologist.

flash
12-07-2012, 07:46 AM
You've rapidly grown into a major board apologist.

Better than a troll to be fair.

blackpoolhibs
12-07-2012, 08:13 AM
Better than a troll to be fair.

A troll who just happens to own and run a company with a turn over many times that of Hibs.

I think he knows a little more than most on here about how to run a business?

Iain G
12-07-2012, 08:17 AM
It's absolutely irrelevant in isolation, and I can only assume therefore that it is meant for the group to take it back to supporters as a scaremongering tactic as someone else has alluded to I think in this thread.

Oh for crying out loud, stop looking our for monsters in the dark that aren't there!!! :rolleyes:

Iain G
12-07-2012, 08:22 AM
A troll who just happens to own and run a company with a turn over many times that of Hibs.

I think he knows a little more than most on here about how to run a business?

Is there something odd in the water in cities and towns in England that begin with the letter "B"?? :na na:

blackpoolhibs
12-07-2012, 08:24 AM
Is there something odd in the water in cities and towns in England that begin with the letter "B"?? :na na:

:greengrin To be fair, he's posting from Crete. Could be the ouzo. :wink:

Iain G
12-07-2012, 08:30 AM
:greengrin To be fair, he's posting from Crete. Could be the ouzo. :wink:

Having a good Grete in Crete then :wink:

But seriously, as an idea of how much it costs to fund the yearly running of a football club it does demonstrate that while season ticket money does all go towards the playing budget this is only a fraction of the money Hibs require to run the wages for the full playing squad and all the supporting staff, I don't really see how or why this is the club being deceitful :confused::agree:

JustSimplyHibs
12-07-2012, 08:32 AM
There are two decent sized clubs in Edinburgh and the city has a population of almost half a million so how is it so difficult to put bums on seats?


A lot of people of Edinburgh would rather follow the Glasgow lot, follow rugby, spend time on fans forums, than wrap up warm and pay £20+ to watch their local team...p.s. Hearts do not have a problem putting bums on seats, it is just Hibs :wink:

IWasThere2016
12-07-2012, 08:32 AM
Is there something odd in the water in cities and towns in England that begin with the letter "B"?? :na na:

Lancs., the pair of them :wink: :greengrin

TBF, I am with Blackpool and Bolton on this .. there is a selective release of info. by the Board.

There always has been and there always will be IMHO.

If STs don't cover the wages why go on about STs being for the squad??

A pound is a pound, and the Board need to focus on the right message to balance the books.

The only message we need to hear/see is a decent team .. we will respond then. Simples!

ScottB
12-07-2012, 09:04 AM
Lancs., the pair of them :wink: :greengrin

TBF, I am with Blackpool and Bolton on this .. there is a selective release of info. by the Board.

There always has been and there always will be IMHO.

If STs don't cover the wages why go on about STs being for the squad??

A pound is a pound, and the Board need to focus on the right message to balance the books.

The only message we need to hear/see is a decent team .. we will respond then. Simples!

I don't recall the Board ever saying that ST cash covers all the wages, just that all ST cash is put into the Manager's budget.

As others have said, I don't see why this is being turned into an issue?

matty_f
12-07-2012, 09:08 AM
I don't recall the Board ever saying that ST cash covers all the wages, just that all ST cash is put into the Manager's budget.

As others have said, I don't see why this is being turned into an issue?

Because some folk want it to be an issue, though God knows why.

matty_f
12-07-2012, 09:10 AM
You've rapidly grown into a major board apologist.

I'm not apologising for anyone. I was there when the conversation happened. Between you, Blackpool and TQM you have somehow managed to contort a very straightforward and honest conversation into the board trying to manipulate us and pull the wool over people's eyes. It's absurd.

Iain G
12-07-2012, 09:12 AM
Because some folk want it to be an issue, though God knows why.

Because Farmer and Petrie are in league with the devil, Craig Whyte and Walt Disney and are all out to con us poor gullible Hibs fans out of our hard earned cash don't ya know to spend on whisky, hookers, cheap import tyres from some communist state and moustache wax...shame that nice Brian Kennedy bloke didn't buy the club in the end...oh woe is us, the end is nigh...or something like that :greengrin

Stevie Reid
12-07-2012, 09:17 AM
I'm not apologising for anyone. I was there when the conversation happened. Between you, Blackpool and TQM you have somehow managed to contort a very straightforward and honest conversation into the board trying to manipulate us and pull the wool over people's eyes. It's absurd.

:agree:

Whilst I can understand how anybody could have been pushed over the edge in the last few months, it's thoroughly depressing to read a bit of information that people were interested in knowing being thoroughly pulled apart in conspiracy-theorist style.

Thanks very much to the guys who were there for relaying this information - it is very much appreciated.

Phil MaGlass
12-07-2012, 09:33 AM
What shortfall, sponsorship,matchday programmes,hospitality, tv revenue,players off the wage list, directors off wage list, etc,etc..... sure theres bound to be a bit of a gap but not to such an extent that we cant be signing decent players.

Albion Hibs
12-07-2012, 12:09 PM
I'm not apologising for anyone. I was there when the conversation happened. Between you, Blackpool and TQM you have somehow managed to contort a very straightforward and honest conversation into the board trying to manipulate us and pull the wool over people's eyes. It's absurd.


I would agree that this board appears to becoming more and more rife with this sort of chat. What i find even more entertaining is how some people think that because they have a username and password for .net that they are entitled to know the ins and outs of every part of hibs - what they spend on wages, who gets what, how it is divided up, incomes/outgoings, and because they dont know that everyone is lying and something untoward is going on.

I cant think of any business that opens up every detail of expense / expenditure to anyone with a passing interest.

So many people complain about how we run ourselves as too much of a business at the detriment of what is on the pitch, yet the bit they seem to be most fasinated with is the business element. If some where as obsessed with supporting the team as they are the accounts I dare say - and in answer to this thread - season ticket sales would be better!

RyeSloan
12-07-2012, 12:20 PM
I dont see the relevance in telling me what agnes the tea lady earns, or what the groundsmen get, if we still have them? These wages are paid from other income, and have as much to do with season ticket sales, as police costs.


Ahh ok so other expenses are covered by other income so it doens't matter :confused:

The point is quite simple...the wage bill for the club is £4m..income for season tickets is wayyy lower than that so therefore there is not a pot of gold to be thrown at the squad. It's also very easy to see that while the playing squad budget and the tea lady budget were not itemised for your benefit that the season ticket income would not be enough to cover the squad budget anway no matter any other expense. Ergo every penny counts and further season ticket sales would help to reduce the funding gap.

Surely that's all that was meant with the statement and why the two figures were mentioned. Trying to use the comments as some sort of stick to beat the board with seems somewhat strange.

LeighLoyal
12-07-2012, 12:31 PM
If Sevco go where they belong - div 3 - I will buy a season to support the club. Hopefully a few more will do likewise if justice prevails over corruption.

Bob Box Fish
14-07-2012, 09:18 AM
Just renewed for my old man, been going for over 40 year but gave it up last season as he was fed up with it. Anyhow, he's back for more torture - 6801

gegs70
14-07-2012, 09:25 AM
A lot of people of Edinburgh would rather follow the Glasgow lot, follow rugby, spend time on fans forums, than wrap up warm and pay £20+ to watch their local team...p.s. Hearts do not have a problem putting bums on seats, it is just Hibs :wink:

I think a few reasons really....may be the cost too £20 + more if you brought the family...and over last 2 seasons its been very poor to watch. Also I think games have covered almost everyday of the week and quite a few people work sundays now, games also get changed at short notice !

son of haggart
14-07-2012, 09:49 AM
A lot of people of Edinburgh would rather follow the Glasgow lot, follow rugby, spend time on fans forums, than wrap up warm and pay £20+ to watch their local team...p.s. Hearts do not have a problem putting bums on seats, it is just Hibs :wink:

I don't think that's true - we have the same problem but yours has been worsened by your lack of on the field entertainment/ winning team. Hearts seasons have been in steady decline for a bot 4 years , for Hibs the decline appears to have been a bit steeper, that's all.

mjhibby
14-07-2012, 10:42 AM
I've read a few pages of this already and can I just say.....

We're reported 2,000 STs on last season. Down.
We're reported, as far as I can see, have taken 1.3 million in season tickets.

In say, the average of £12 per ticket, which I don't know if includes walk ups....

Another reported figures, from this thread, 6,800 x 12 x 19 = 1,550,000.

Replace the figure, reported 2,000 more, would only equal 2,000,000 from ST sales.

We lost 980,000, IIRC, last year, expecting the same.

Can I just say, can everyone stop greeting and accept we put good money into the club, it's dwindling coa we've been pish, if you don't like it move on.

One of the things that pees me off about this board is that people complain because other people don't put the money in to the club to increase the quality of player we sign so THEY get to watch better quality.

It's like me having a hobby and moaning others didn't want to pay to increase the standard of my enjoyment.

We want to watch, good, FAIR, football. Put your cash in and enjoy, if you don't, then stop.

I doubt we will have lost that much last season as the scottish cup run put upwards of £600,000 into the coffers and the pars game was a nice wee windfall.I would expect the loss to be around £100-200,000 and considering the trouble other teams are having thats actually not bad.This season coming up though is huge and we have to be top six.

Viva_Palmeiras
14-07-2012, 10:11 PM
Appreciate there is already a yes/no poll but digging deeper to gauge feedback...

Viva_Palmeiras
15-07-2012, 05:53 PM
Bump - thanks to those already responding so we get a clearer picture on why folks are not ina position to renew. Would be great to get some more feedback in what should prove an important illustration for fans and club alike as we look to recover lost STs and build.

sahib
15-07-2012, 08:08 PM
Bump - thanks to those already responding so we get a clearer picture on why folks are not ina position to renew. Would be great to get some more feedback in what should prove an important illustration for fans and club alike as we look to recover lost STs and build.

I ticked the mates not renewing option but really it is a combintion of factors. I actually lapsed a few seasons ago for that reason but since then it is really supply and demand. Most games I can sit on or near my former ST seat. There are loads of empty seats to choose if you ignore the crap ones the turnstile gives you. There is no real savings to be had with a season ticket it makes little sense foe me to buy one. Am I a parasite? I certainly want Hibs to last a few more years. How did we manage in the days when only the old stand had a season ticket gate?

basehibby
15-07-2012, 08:43 PM
I put Other - just started a new job but still up to my eyes in debt - so splashing out 400 hundred odd quid on ANYTHING is a non-starter for the time being.

That said I have been taking a disabled guy along as his carer for a good while now and will continue to take him this coming season - dunno if that counts tho as I have not had to pay for the ST.

hibsdaft70
15-07-2012, 09:06 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned already but this years payment plan is being run by Zebra Finance. You take out the credit agreement with them and they pay Hibs the full value of the season ticket. I don't see why any supporter cannot approach Zebra Finace direct to spread the cost of the season ticket over the year (or part of). Hibs would then still benefit as would the ST holder. This now auto renews at the end of the term thereby making it easier and guaranteeing a payment plan next year. Or am I talking pish?
https://www.seasonticketfinance.com/home

PatHead
15-07-2012, 10:25 PM
Must admit one of the things I liked about having a ST was not having to find the money for myself and kids (when they were wee) every week. Meant I never had to cut down on other things like drink!

It occured to me that quite a few folk are saying they can't afford one just now. Would it be worth splitting one with a mate or two? Means you are able to avoid paying every second home game. If you can't make it they are getting to use it and finally Hibs get the money up front. Just make sure you get a ticket with the seats arond you spare.

GreenCastle
16-07-2012, 01:16 PM
Must admit one of the things I liked about having a ST was not having to find the money for myself and kids (when they were wee) every week. Meant I never had to cut down on other things like drink!

It occured to me that quite a few folk are saying they can't afford one just now. Would it be worth splitting one with a mate or two? Means you are able to avoid paying every second home game. If you can't make it they are getting to use it and finally Hibs get the money up front. Just make sure you get a ticket with the seats arond you spare.

That sounds like a good marketing idea - ticket share - like a house share / boat share - when you can't fully afford the whole price and make all games why not split it with someone else and then at least that seat will be full for most games.

Anyone know what's happening with the ST offer and Old Firm free tickets or whatever the offer was ? :confused: Now they are in Div 3 what is being replaced in this offer?

Billychaotic182
16-07-2012, 03:36 PM
Moved to Aberdeen. Have thought about getting a ticket And going to the odd game but all my family have stopped going also as they work so I don't want to go on my own