Hibernian Supporter's Association Statement

[invisible man]

For Hibs and their fans this summer should have been solely about a much needed rebuilding process.

Instead we have watched with increasing concern as the whole Scottish game has been tarnished by the financial collapse of Rangers.

As Hibs fans we know only too well how men concerned more with profiteering than the wishes of fans can risk the very existence of a football club.

So it is with increasing dismay that we have watched Scottish football tear itself apart in its attempts to protect a business model that operates more for the benefit of TV executives than ordinary supporters.

We believe that the new Rangers - if they can satisfy the usual standards demanded for SFA membership - should start out again in the Third Division.

We welcomed the "no" vote passed by the SPL, including our own club, but we have watched with dismay as the SPL clubs have stood silently on the sidelines as their own Chief Executive - with the help and approval of a now entirely discredited SFA - has tried to bully and threaten lower division clubs into submission.

Not only do we find the tactics used by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan abhorrent, we also take issue with the doomsday scenarios they have offered as evidence.

While TV money and corporate sponsorship are undoubtedly important we do not believe that all of them would vanish if the Rangers newco was not guaranteed a place in the SPL within 12 months.

We would also argue that additional benefits - including a return to more regular 3pm Saturday kick off times - would offset some of the lost revenue.

This, however, is an issue that should go beyond finances.

It is essential that Hibernian - like all clubs - are part of a fair and equitable league structure with governing bodies that are consistent and reasonable in their treatment of all clubs.

We do not believe that is currently the case and we would call on all SPL clubs - including our own - to urgently address the damage being done to the game by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan.

We have long felt that reconstruction of the league structure was a critical factor in strengthening the Scottish game.

The proposals that are currently being discussed destroy the prospect of a strong Scottish game and are aimed solely at rebuilding a strong Rangers.

These attempts at craven gerrymandering for the sake of one club are an affront to all the commitments to "sporting integrity" we have heard over the last few months.

Many Hibernian fans feel cheated. While the financial sacrifices made at Easter Road have not always found favour with many of our fans we do appreciate that these decisions have been made in the interests of long term stability.

We now find our voices ignored as rules are broken or rewritten to favour a club that has spent money it could not afford to buy success.

It is heartbreaking for us to hear members speak of not going back to Easter Road or of turning their back on the Scottish national team.

These are not hollow threats. They are a symptom of the disillusionment many fans feel at a game that seems to constantly betray its paying customers.

While we have sympathy for ordinary Rangers fans left bewildered by current events we have also been saddened over the last few months to hear Ally McCoist attempt to destroy a disciplinary process that had been created to help move the game forward.

Other comments from high profile Rangers figures such as Sandy Jardine have seemed to be nothing more than vindictive threats against other clubs. These have left us shocked and angered.

Now we find ourselves in the unacceptable position of watching Charles Green attempt to sign players while footballing debts to other clubs - debts that are as important as any projected TV or sponsorship income - remain unpaid.

Yet this apparent lack of contrition is being ignored as the Scottish football authorities unite to do what they feel is best for just one club.

We would hope that the European and global footballing authorities are watching these developments with interest and will move to censure the Scottish governing bodies.

Hibernian Football Club is our passion. We want to see a strong Hibs on the pitch and off the pitch. We want to see a sustainable Hibernian at the heart of our community.

22 years ago we united as fans to save Hibernian.

Today we find ourselves united in calling for Scottish football to end the current uncertainty, withdraw the current campaign of bullying and threats aimed at our friends in the Scottish Football League and allow Rangers to rebuild their devastated club from the Third Division.

Fans of other clubs have been accused of "hating" Rangers.

We are defined not by hatred of any club but by our love of Hibernian.

A strong Hibernian in a strong Scottish game will forever be our one and only aim.

A few men motivated by greed and money currently risk that vision.

Fans of Hibernian and every other club cannot stand silently by and let that happen.

Hibernian F.C. Supporters Association
08/07/2012

[Seveno]

There can't be a single Hibs fan that could disagree with a single word in that statement. Well done and thank you on behalf of us all.

Let's hope that our Board and the Boards of every other club takes heed.

GGTTH

[hibbymac]

There can't be a single Hibs fan that could disagree with a single word in that statement. Well done and thank you on behalf of us all.

Let's hope that our Board and the Boards of every other club takes heed.

GGTTH

:agree: :top marks

[blackpoolhibs]

A lot of that is a complete contradiction to what Mike Reilly was saying only a couple of months ago, although i agree with most of this statement.

[erin go bragh]

Spot on :top marks.


ggtth

[theleith hibby]

agree completely very well put this article should be sent to all teams boards :aok:

[Bostonhibby]

I identify with every word of this statement, says it all for me.:top marks

[cabbageandribs1875]

We welcomed the "no" vote passed by the SPL, including our own club, but we have watched with dismay as the SPL clubs have stood silently on the sidelines as their own Chief Executive - with the help and approval of a now entirely discredited SFA - has tried to bully and threaten lower division clubs into submission.

Not only do we find the tactics used by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan abhorrent, we also take issue with the doomsday scenarios they have offered as evidence.

We do not believe that is currently the case and we would call on all SPL clubs - including our own - to urgently address the damage being done to the game by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan.

the proposals that are currently being discussed destroy the prospect of a strong Scottish game and are aimed solely at rebuilding a strong Rangers.

These attempts at craven gerrymandering for the sake of one club are an affront to all the commitments to "sporting integrity" we have heard over the last few months.


We now find our voices ignored as rules are broken or rewritten to favour a club that has spent money it could not afford to buy success.



While we have sympathy for ordinary Rangers fans left bewildered by current events we have also been saddened over the last few months to hear Ally McCoist attempt to destroy a disciplinary process that had been created to help move the game forward.

Other comments from high profile Rangers figures such as Sandy Jardine have seemed to be nothing more than vindictive threats against other clubs. These have left us shocked and angered.

Now we find ourselves in the unacceptable position of watching Charles Green attempt to sign players while footballing debts to other clubs - debts that are as important as any projected TV or sponsorship income - remain unpaid.

Yet this apparent lack of contrition is being ignored as the Scottish football authorities unite to do what they feel is best for just one club.

We would hope that the European and global footballing authorities are watching these developments with interest and will move to censure the Scottish governing bodies.


Today we find ourselves united in calling for Scottish football to end the current uncertainty, withdraw the current campaign of bullying and threats aimed at our friends in the Scottish Football League and allow Rangers to rebuild their devastated club from the Third Division.

A strong Hibernian in a strong Scottish game will forever be our one and only aim.

A few men motivated by greed and money currently risk that vision.

Fans of Hibernian and every other club cannot stand silently by and let that happen.

Hibernian F.C. Supporters Association
08/07/2012



good stuff :top marks :agree:

[pacorosssco]

excellent statement. well said gents. a more competitive league with 3 oclock kick offs and wealth spread around equal more supporters in turn stronger teams with good youth systems and eventually probably better tv deals.

[brydekirk]

agree completely very well put this article should be sent to all teams boards :aok:

agree

[Forza Fred]

Get it in the papers pronto

[cad]

Excellent post ,well said that man.
I think you covered everything thats pee`d off the vast majority of football fans off since this farce started with your statement , :top marks

[Littlest Hobo]

I thought this was a club statement when I first saw it.

Reading through it I was in disbelief that the club actually do think along the same lines as us supporters.

Smiling at every sentence, I then realised at the end that Infact this wasn't a club statement but in actual fact it was a statement from the supporters.

If only we could get a statement like this from the Football Club itself, that would really go along way to restoring some of the trust and belief I have in our club and it's directors and their vision for the future of Scottish football.

[1950's hibbie]

I thought this was a club statement when I first saw it.

Reading through it I was in disbelief that the club actually do think along the same lines as us supporters.

Smiling at every sentence, I then realised at the end that Infact this wasn't a club statement but in actual fact it was a statement from the supporters.

If only we could get a statement like this from the Football Club itself, that would really go along way to restoring some of the trust and belief I have in our club and it's directors and their vision for the future of Scottish football.

I thought the same when I read the title, excellent statement, would have been oustandingly so if it had been from the Club.

[The Green Goblin]

An outstanding statement. I hope they send it to everyone they can, including Alex Thomson, and ask him to retweet it.

[McD]

Whoever wrote this, well done! A well thought out and eloquently worded statement, succinctly summarising what has happened, what is happening and the consequences of the continuation of these.

:not worth

[ALF TUPPER]

I wholeheartedly and proudly associate myself with this statement. :flag:

[archiebald]

I thought this was a club statement when I first saw it.

Reading through it I was in disbelief that the club actually do think along the same lines as us supporters.

Smiling at every sentence, I then realised at the end that Infact this wasn't a club statement but in actual fact it was a statement from the supporters.

If only we could get a statement like this from the Football Club itself, that would really go along way to restoring some of the trust and belief I have in our club and it's directors and their vision for the future of Scottish football.This is not a club statement,its from an individual within the club with NO authority to sign on behalf of its members-Mr Reilly will be fuming.When they do get back in SPL they will run it all again cause SFA are scared always have always will be.Probably start Newco TV so no share.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I agree with the sentiment of that statement.

I do not agree, no matter what the majority think, that the outcome of this situation will be driven by any desire from the SFA / SFL or for that matter SPL to take any decision because it suits Rangers past or present. To suggest that clubs are in a headlong rush to to help the newco into division 1 as the result of some sort of Rangers love in is obtuse and disingenuous in the extreme.

If it were purely down to football integrity on its own, then Rangers newco would already be looking out the postcodes of the third division clubs so that they could set the Sat Nav.

But the reality of this situation is that there is a lot for clubs to lose here and they cannot just ignore that reality in persuit of sporting idealism. For that reason they must consider all factors when deciding what to do with the newco, not just one factor no matter how desirable that might be.

There is an article by a guy called Graeme Croser in todays Mail on Sunday. He is an ex producer for SKY T.V. Its the first comment I have seen from anybody with inside knowledge of SKY and how it works and for those who think there will be any sort of compromise from SKY if they lose their precious OF games for more than a season it makes pretty grim reading.

Fans might be able to sit back and say 'so what' but I am inclined to think that a number of clubs in Scotland wont be able to afford that luxury.

Another part of that statement I must address directly .... Aye theres no doubt that some fans will attend more if KO times are back at 3pm .... well I followed Hibs through the 70s and 80s when every game kicked off at 3pm and the crowds were crap and worse than they are now I sincerely doubt it will have anything like the impact some folk ( like me ) would want it to.

FWIW ..... I hate posting stuff like this. I would love to see the newco in Division3 but I am prepared to accept that that might not happen and that if it doesnt there will be good reason for it.

[DC_Hibs]

"We would hope that the European and global footballing authorities are watching these developments with interest and will move to censure the Scottish governing bodies".

Don't HOPE. Everyone seems to HOPE. Individuals and groups should be emailing Uefa in their droves as there is substantial evidence that what the authorities are doing is wrong in so many ways - The prospect of no vote being given to SFL clubs. Ignoring the precedents set of Gretna and Livingston. Bullying member clubs.

Luckily we have a proactive English journalist doing the work that hundreds of thousands of Scottish football fans should be doing.

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/despicable-actions-scottish-football-authorities/2211


info@uefa.com
Subject: Corruption in Scottish Football

[Baba O'riley]

Excellent statement :top marks

[Hibercelona]

For Hibs and their fans this summer should have been solely about a much needed rebuilding process.

Instead we have watched with increasing concern as the whole Scottish game has been tarnished by the financial collapse of Rangers.

As Hibs fans we know only too well how men concerned more with profiteering than the wishes of fans can risk the very existence of a football club.

So it is with increasing dismay that we have watched Scottish football tear itself apart in its attempts to protect a business model that operates more for the benefit of TV executives than ordinary supporters.

We believe that the new Rangers - if they can satisfy the usual standards demanded for SFA membership - should start out again in the Third Division.

We welcomed the "no" vote passed by the SPL, including our own club, but we have watched with dismay as the SPL clubs have stood silently on the sidelines as their own Chief Executive - with the help and approval of a now entirely discredited SFA - has tried to bully and threaten lower division clubs into submission.

Not only do we find the tactics used by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan abhorrent, we also take issue with the doomsday scenarios they have offered as evidence.

While TV money and corporate sponsorship are undoubtedly important we do not believe that all of them would vanish if the Rangers newco was not guaranteed a place in the SPL within 12 months.

We would also argue that additional benefits - including a return to more regular 3pm Saturday kick off times - would offset some of the lost revenue.

This, however, is an issue that should go beyond finances.

It is essential that Hibernian - like all clubs - are part of a fair and equitable league structure with governing bodies that are consistent and reasonable in their treatment of all clubs.

We do not believe that is currently the case and we would call on all SPL clubs - including our own - to urgently address the damage being done to the game by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan.

We have long felt that reconstruction of the league structure was a critical factor in strengthening the Scottish game.

The proposals that are currently being discussed destroy the prospect of a strong Scottish game and are aimed solely at rebuilding a strong Rangers.

These attempts at craven gerrymandering for the sake of one club are an affront to all the commitments to "sporting integrity" we have heard over the last few months.

Many Hibernian fans feel cheated. While the financial sacrifices made at Easter Road have not always found favour with many of our fans we do appreciate that these decisions have been made in the interests of long term stability.

We now find our voices ignored as rules are broken or rewritten to favour a club that has spent money it could not afford to buy success.

It is heartbreaking for us to hear members speak of not going back to Easter Road or of turning their back on the Scottish national team.

These are not hollow threats. They are a symptom of the disillusionment many fans feel at a game that seems to constantly betray its paying customers.

While we have sympathy for ordinary Rangers fans left bewildered by current events we have also been saddened over the last few months to hear Ally McCoist attempt to destroy a disciplinary process that had been created to help move the game forward.

Other comments from high profile Rangers figures such as Sandy Jardine have seemed to be nothing more than vindictive threats against other clubs. These have left us shocked and angered.

Now we find ourselves in the unacceptable position of watching Charles Green attempt to sign players while footballing debts to other clubs - debts that are as important as any projected TV or sponsorship income - remain unpaid.

Yet this apparent lack of contrition is being ignored as the Scottish football authorities unite to do what they feel is best for just one club.

We would hope that the European and global footballing authorities are watching these developments with interest and will move to censure the Scottish governing bodies.

Hibernian Football Club is our passion. We want to see a strong Hibs on the pitch and off the pitch. We want to see a sustainable Hibernian at the heart of our community.

22 years ago we united as fans to save Hibernian.

Today we find ourselves united in calling for Scottish football to end the current uncertainty, withdraw the current campaign of bullying and threats aimed at our friends in the Scottish Football League and allow Rangers to rebuild their devastated club from the Third Division.

Fans of other clubs have been accused of "hating" Rangers.

We are defined not by hatred of any club but by our love of Hibernian.

A strong Hibernian in a strong Scottish game will forever be our one and only aim.

A few men motivated by greed and money currently risk that vision.

Fans of Hibernian and every other club cannot stand silently by and let that happen.

Hibernian F.C. Supporters Association
08/07/2012

:top marks

I would urge everybody to foward this on to as many sources as they can.

[Hibercelona]

I agree with the sentiment of that statement.

I do not agree, no matter what the majority think, that the outcome of this situation will be driven by any desire from the SFA / SFL or for that matter SPL to take any decision because it suits Rangers past or present. To suggest that clubs are in a headlong rush to to help the newco into division 1 as the result of some sort of Rangers love in is obtuse and disingenuous in the extreme.

If it were purely down to football integrity on its own, then Rangers newco would already be looking out the postcodes of the third division clubs so that they could set the Sat Nav.

But the reality of this situation is that there is a lot for clubs to lose here and they cannot just ignore that reality in persuit of sporting idealism. For that reason they must consider all factors when deciding what to do with the newco, not just one factor no matter how desirable that might be.

There is an article by a guy called Graeme Croser in todays Mail on Sunday. He is an ex producer for SKY T.V. Its the first comment I have seen from anybody with inside knowledge of SKY and how it works and for those who think there will be any sort of compromise from SKY if they lose their precious OF games for more than a season it makes pretty grim reading.

Fans might be able to sit back and say 'so what' but I am inclined to think that a number of clubs in Scotland wont be able to afford that luxury.

Another part of that statement I must address directly .... Aye theres no doubt that some fans will attend more if KO times are back at 3pm .... well I followed Hibs through the 70s and 80s when every game kicked off at 3pm and the crowds were crap and worse than they are now I sincerely doubt it will have anything like the impact some folk ( like me ) would want it to.

FWIW ..... I hate posting stuff like this. I would love to see the newco in Division3 but I am prepared to accept that that might not happen and that if it doesnt there will be good reason for it.

Who are all these clubs that you believe would suffer if Sevco 5088 started in DIV3?

If you are referring to SFL clubs, then SFL clubs never see a sniff of any cash the OF bring to the league anyway. This would actually benefit them financially if Sevco 5088 started out in DIV3.

The only league that would lose out on cash would be the SPL (temporarily). But I would argue that any club that wishes to play at SPL level, should be self sustaining enough to withstand a short term drop in revenue like this.

Nothing bad will come out of them starting in DIV3 in the long run. It also gives the SPL plenty of time to make some much needed changes to our game.

[SurferRosa]

A great statement. :top marks

[down-the-slope]

Who are all these clubs that you believe would suffer if Sevco 5088 started in DIV3?

If you are referring to SFL clubs, then SFL clubs never see a sniff of any cash the OF bring to the league anyway. This would actually benefit them financially if Sevco 5088 started out in DIV3.

The only league that would lose out on cash would be the SPL (temporarily). But I would argue that any club that wishes to play at SPL level, should be self sustaining enough to withstand a short term drop in revenue like this.

Nothing bad will come out of them starting in DIV3 in the long run. It also gives the SPL plenty of time to make some much needed changes to our game.

Rubbish - shows you don't know how it works. SPL cash goes to SFL as part of settlement that happened as result of SPL break away...OF whether we like it or not (and I don't) are what brings the TV cash to size it is and allows such payment. Its this payment that appears to be being used as the 'blackmail' to get SFL clubs to agree to Div 1 for Sevco 5088....if no 'Rangers' for 'more than one year in top flight TV money will go and we won't be able to give you your wedge'

[archiebald]

I agree with the sentiment of that statement.

I do not agree, no matter what the majority think, that the outcome of this situation will be driven by any desire from the SFA / SFL or for that matter SPL to take any decision because it suits Rangers past or present. To suggest that clubs are in a headlong rush to to help the newco into division 1 as the result of some sort of Rangers love in is obtuse and disingenuous in the extreme.

If it were purely down to football integrity on its own, then Rangers newco would already be looking out the postcodes of the third division clubs so that they could set the Sat Nav.

But the reality of this situation is that there is a lot for clubs to lose here and they cannot just ignore that reality in persuit of sporting idealism. For that reason they must consider all factors when deciding what to do with the newco, not just one factor no matter how desirable that might be.

There is an article by a guy called Graeme Croser in todays Mail on Sunday. He is an ex producer for SKY T.V. Its the first comment I have seen from anybody with inside knowledge of SKY and how it works and for those who think there will be any sort of compromise from SKY if they lose their precious OF games for more than a season it makes pretty grim reading.

Fans might be able to sit back and say 'so what' but I am inclined to think that a number of clubs in Scotland wont be able to afford that luxury.

Another part of that statement I must address directly .... Aye theres no doubt that some fans will attend more if KO times are back at 3pm .... well I followed Hibs through the 70s and 80s when every game kicked off at 3pm and the crowds were crap and worse than they are now I sincerely doubt it will have anything like the impact some folk ( like me ) would want it to.

FWIW ..... I hate posting stuff like this. I would love to see the newco in Division3 but I am prepared to accept that that might not happen and that if it doesnt there will be good reason for it.
Correct :top marks

[Keith_M]

That is fantastic work. Unfortunately, it does seem to be at odds with what Mike Riley the chairman(?) of the Hibs Supporters Association has stated previously.

It is, without any doubt in my mind, the view of the majority of Hibs Supporters. If this was adopted by hibs.net as their view on the subject, I would happily put my name to it.

[Hibspirational]

An excellent, well written statement!

[NAE NOOKIE]

Who are all these clubs that you believe would suffer if Sevco 5088 started in DIV3?

If you are referring to SFL clubs, then SFL clubs never see a sniff of any cash the OF bring to the league anyway. This would actually benefit them financially if Sevco 5088 started out in DIV3.

The only league that would lose out on cash would be the SPL (temporarily). But I would argue that any club that wishes to play at SPL level, should be self sustaining enough to withstand a short term drop in revenue like this.

Nothing bad will come out of them starting in DIV3 in the long run. It also gives the SPL plenty of time to make some much needed changes to our game.

Your first paragraph .... Yes they do.

Your second paragraph ............... Which of the current SPL clubs is self sustaining. Also I doubt they would agree that 3 years is short term.

Your third paragraph ......... If the outcome of this situation is a fair SPL voting system, why does the presence or absence of rangers affect the ability or will to change the distribution of revenue or reconstruction of the leagues?

[Keith_M]

An excellent, well written statement!


Never mind that, why have you got a photo of my missus as your avatar?

:confused:

[Hainan Hibs]

Fantastic statement:agree:, however my enthuasism dipped when I realised it wasn't the actual club's statement:greengrin

[R'Albin]

Grant Scott has just tweeted it.

[Jones28]

Never mind that, why have you got a photo of my missus as your avatar?

:confused:

You should see the one I've got :agree:

[PatHead]

[QUOTE=BOVRIL;3288321]I agree with the sentiment of that statement.

I do not agree, no matter what the majority think, that the outcome of this situation will be driven by any desire from the SFA / SFL or for that matter SPL to take any decision because it suits Rangers past or present. To suggest that clubs are in a headlong rush to to help the newco into division 1 as the result of some sort of Rangers love in is obtuse and disingenuous in the extreme.

Personally I don't agree with you on your point above. There would be heaven and earth moved to give the new club an advantage because of who they represent ie the protestant, masonic community in Scotland. Whether we like it or this club, new or old, still represent these people. This includes a major number of people in power in the Scottish game and media who wish to see "Rangers" at the top table.

Yes money does come into it as well but I am not convinced this is the major decision factor for some.

[Jones28]

Doesn't bother me at all that the club hasn't released a statement on these lines - although it would be good if it did.

Fantastic statement, echoes exactly what the fans have said for the past few months.

[Keith_M]

You should see the one I've got :agree:

Oi!!!


:grr:

[ggth]

For Hibs and their fans this summer should have been solely about a much needed rebuilding process.

Instead we have watched with increasing concern as the whole Scottish game has been tarnished by the financial collapse of Rangers.

As Hibs fans we know only too well how men concerned more with profiteering than the wishes of fans can risk the very existence of a football club.

So it is with increasing dismay that we have watched Scottish football tear itself apart in its attempts to protect a business model that operates more for the benefit of TV executives than ordinary supporters.

We believe that the new Rangers - if they can satisfy the usual standards demanded for SFA membership - should start out again in the Third Division.

We welcomed the "no" vote passed by the SPL, including our own club, but we have watched with dismay as the SPL clubs have stood silently on the sidelines as their own Chief Executive - with the help and approval of a now entirely discredited SFA - has tried to bully and threaten lower division clubs into submission.

Not only do we find the tactics used by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan abhorrent, we also take issue with the doomsday scenarios they have offered as evidence.

While TV money and corporate sponsorship are undoubtedly important we do not believe that all of them would vanish if the Rangers newco was not guaranteed a place in the SPL within 12 months.

We would also argue that additional benefits - including a return to more regular 3pm Saturday kick off times - would offset some of the lost revenue.

This, however, is an issue that should go beyond finances.

It is essential that Hibernian - like all clubs - are part of a fair and equitable league structure with governing bodies that are consistent and reasonable in their treatment of all clubs.

We do not believe that is currently the case and we would call on all SPL clubs - including our own - to urgently address the damage being done to the game by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan.

We have long felt that reconstruction of the league structure was a critical factor in strengthening the Scottish game.

The proposals that are currently being discussed destroy the prospect of a strong Scottish game and are aimed solely at rebuilding a strong Rangers.

These attempts at craven gerrymandering for the sake of one club are an affront to all the commitments to "sporting integrity" we have heard over the last few months.

Many Hibernian fans feel cheated. While the financial sacrifices made at Easter Road have not always found favour with many of our fans we do appreciate that these decisions have been made in the interests of long term stability.

We now find our voices ignored as rules are broken or rewritten to favour a club that has spent money it could not afford to buy success.

It is heartbreaking for us to hear members speak of not going back to Easter Road or of turning their back on the Scottish national team.

These are not hollow threats. They are a symptom of the disillusionment many fans feel at a game that seems to constantly betray its paying customers.

While we have sympathy for ordinary Rangers fans left bewildered by current events we have also been saddened over the last few months to hear Ally McCoist attempt to destroy a disciplinary process that had been created to help move the game forward.

Other comments from high profile Rangers figures such as Sandy Jardine have seemed to be nothing more than vindictive threats against other clubs. These have left us shocked and angered.

Now we find ourselves in the unacceptable position of watching Charles Green attempt to sign players while footballing debts to other clubs - debts that are as important as any projected TV or sponsorship income - remain unpaid.

Yet this apparent lack of contrition is being ignored as the Scottish football authorities unite to do what they feel is best for just one club.

We would hope that the European and global footballing authorities are watching these developments with interest and will move to censure the Scottish governing bodies.

Hibernian Football Club is our passion. We want to see a strong Hibs on the pitch and off the pitch. We want to see a sustainable Hibernian at the heart of our community.

22 years ago we united as fans to save Hibernian.

Today we find ourselves united in calling for Scottish football to end the current uncertainty, withdraw the current campaign of bullying and threats aimed at our friends in the Scottish Football League and allow Rangers to rebuild their devastated club from the Third Division.

Fans of other clubs have been accused of "hating" Rangers.

We are defined not by hatred of any club but by our love of Hibernian.

A strong Hibernian in a strong Scottish game will forever be our one and only aim.

A few men motivated by greed and money currently risk that vision.

Fans of Hibernian and every other club cannot stand silently by and let that happen.

Hibernian F.C. Supporters Association
08/07/2012

Agree 100% superb

[NAE NOOKIE]

[QUOTE=BOVRIL;3288321]I agree with the sentiment of that statement.

I do not agree, no matter what the majority think, that the outcome of this situation will be driven by any desire from the SFA / SFL or for that matter SPL to take any decision because it suits Rangers past or present. To suggest that clubs are in a headlong rush to to help the newco into division 1 as the result of some sort of Rangers love in is obtuse and disingenuous in the extreme.

Personally I don't agree with you on your point above. There would be heaven and earth moved to give the new club an advantage because of who they represent ie the protestant, masonic community in Scotland. Whether we like it or this club, new or old, still represent these people. This includes a major number of people in power in the Scottish game and media who wish to see "Rangers" at the top table.

Yes money does come into it as well but I am not convinced this is the major decision factor for some.

I dont have a clue if the editors of the Daily Record or The Scottish Sun attend the same lodge as Sandy Jardine ( for the sake of accuracy .. I actually have no idea of what Mr Jardine does in his spare time ). I always thought their love in with at least one half of the OF was due to selling papers. As far as I know the only church rupert murdoch worships at is the church of the mighty dollar.

I also dont know if loads of football club owners / chairmen in Scotland have as their main priority the upholding of the Protestant status quo, or if they meet in dimly lit rooms once a week with their trouser legs rolled up.

But unless you can come up with some credible evidence that there is any substance to what you have said here I would consider your comment to be ill advised, ill thought out, and on a par with the recent "Social unrest" comment of one of our fantastic football administrators.

Hell .... even Donald Finlay has come out with an anti newco statement recently as far as I recall.

I honestly dont think that this is an avenue this argument needs to be taken down.

[21.05.2016]

Brilliant statement :top marks

[blackpoolhibs]

Brilliant statement :top marks

I have read it again a couple of times and you are correct, it is a tremendous statement. :agree:

[PatHead]

[QUOTE=BOVRIL;3288410][QUOTE=PatHead;3288375]<br>
<br>
I dont have a clue if the editors of the Daily Record or The Scottish Sun attend the same lodge as Sandy Jardine ( for the sake of accuracy .. I actually have no idea of what Mr Jardine does in his spare time ). I always thought their love in with at least one half of the OF was due to selling papers. As far as I know the only church rupert murdoch worships at is the church of the mighty dollar.<br>
<br>
I also dont know if loads of football club owners / chairmen in Scotland have as their main priority the upholding of the Protestant status quo, or if they meet in dimly lit rooms once a week with their trouser legs rolled up.<br>
<br>
But unless you can come up with some credible evidence that there is any substance to what you have said here I would consider your comment to be ill advised, ill thought out, and on a par with the recent "Social unrest" comment of one of our fantastic football administrators.<br>

Hell .... even Donald Finlay has come out with an anti newco statement recently as far as I recall
I honestly dont think that this is an avenue this argument needs to be taken down.[/QUOTE
Don't dispute your comment about Murdoch but there are enough senior people in Scottish football with certain leanings. None of this effort was applied when Celtic were going to the wall which was the only comparable occassion. Yes I know that Celtic never reached this stage but there was no campaign to keep them afloat when they were in trouble. An unknown Canadian came along to save them. If you don't believe that "the rolled up trouser" brigade are having a significant input to this you must live with your head in the sand or outwith Scotland. BTW I don't envisage civil unrest or anything like that . With regard to Donald Finlay he is involved with another consortium wanting to buy/take over Rangers. He may have his own reasons for voting. Finally don't really care if you want to go down that avenue its not your thread to decide who says what

[marinello59]

I dont have a clue if the editors of the Daily Record or The Scottish Sun attend the same lodge as Sandy Jardine ( for the sake of accuracy .. I actually have no idea of what Mr Jardine does in his spare time ). I always thought their love in with at least one half of the OF was due to selling papers. As far as I know the only church rupert murdoch worships at is the church of the mighty dollar.

I also dont know if loads of football club owners / chairmen in Scotland have as their main priority the upholding of the Protestant status quo, or if they meet in dimly lit rooms once a week with their trouser legs rolled up.

But unless you can come up with some credible evidence that there is any substance to what you have said here I would consider your comment to be ill advised, ill thought out, and on a par with the recent "Social unrest" comment of one of our fantastic football administrators.

Hell .... even Donald Finlay has come out with an anti newco statement recently as far as I recall.

I honestly dont think that this is an avenue this argument needs to be taken down.
Good post. The best argument I have heard for ensuring Rangers end up in SFL 3 came from , of all people, Steven Presley. He made his case without hiding behind tired cliches and conspiracy theory.

[brog]

An excellent & exceptionally well-written statement. Whoever wrote/developed it has shown themselves to properly represent & identify with us as Hibs supporters. Now we only need the Board & the Team to play their part!!

[bighairyfaeleith]

A well written statement that pretty much sums up my view of things.

[marinello59]

you won't find anyone on here that will disagree

You underestimate the ability of hibs.net posters to start a riot in an empty room. :greengrin

[Onion]

What an excellent statement - well done to all involved in constructing that. It deserves wider circulation as a reasonable summary of what a lot of fair minded Hibs fans think. Petrie and the Board should be forced to read this, and provide a response so we know where the club stands.

[hibsbollah]

Even the merricks like it. View from gorgie group on facebook singing its praises.

[marinello59]

I disagree with parts of it but as a summary of what the vast majority of Hibs fans think it's job well done. Given the abuse thrown at anybody who attempts to speak for the fans as a whole whoever penned that deserves plenty of praise.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I disagree with parts of it but as a summary of what the vast majority of Hibs fans think it's job well done. Given the abuse thrown at anybody who attempts to speak for the fans as a whole whoever penned that deserves plenty of praise.

Credit where credit is due, the statement is spot on

[sbell1875]

I have now read this for a third time and I couldn't be prouder to be a Hibs fan right now. If only other clubs were to echo these sentiments some clarity might finally be possible and those (through lack of a better word) cheats from Glasgow get exactly what they, and any other club if they were in this position, deserve.

[wheniwas5]

excellent post . agree 100%

[big-mo]

This is the type of integrity that fans get but goes right over the head of that excuse for a pundit Craig Burley as typified by his Daily Record piece. -
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/08/craig-burley-column-sfl-minnows-must-vote-rangers-newco-into-first-division-86908-23906004/

I don't know if it has been mentioned elsewhere, but there is also a very good summary of the breakdown of TV revenue and how Scottish football is being shafted. -
http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/the-sfaspl-tv-myth-how-we-compare-to-europe/

It should also be noted that SKY pay twice and much for Rugby coverage as opposed to SPL but only get half the viewing audience than for a run of the mill non old firm SPL game.

[Billie Jo]

http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rstsite/latest-rst-news/472-rst-board-and-members-statement

(http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rstsite/latest-rst-news/472-rst-board-and-members-statement)

[matty_f]

Great statement from the HSC. Well done. :agree:

[Baldy Foghorn]

http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rstsite/latest-rst-news/472-rst-board-and-members-statement

(http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rstsite/latest-rst-news/472-rst-board-and-members-statement)

Seems to have upset the bear's, even better, Win Win

[hibsbollah]

http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rstsite/latest-rst-news/472-rst-board-and-members-statement

(http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rstsite/latest-rst-news/472-rst-board-and-members-statement)



By dropping into division 3 Rangers will be 'forever beyond reproach' :hilarious:
Forever tainted as cheats thieves and liars more like.
Completely ****ing bonkers, those lot.

[Hibs Class]

http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rstsite/latest-rst-news/472-rst-board-and-members-statement

(http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rstsite/latest-rst-news/472-rst-board-and-members-statement)

Pr!cks. Worth reading for its comedy value but otherwise the usual irrelevant "poor us" pish we have come to expect from those unevolved bigots who have simply stumbled across a keyboard and a dictionary.

[Mon Dieu4]

Rangers Football Club has existed and prospered for 140 years.

Can i point out an inaccuracy of my own Sevco supporters trust, it should have read "had existed" girfuy!!!

[archiebald]

They only won because they cheated:pfgwa

[PatHead]

By dropping into division 3 Rangers will be 'forever beyond reproach' :hilarious:
Forever tainted as cheats thieves and liars more like.
Completely ****ing bonkers, those lot.

Rangers won't drop into Division 3. Rangers will shortly cease to exist. The Rangers will be either in D3 or D1 depending on the fix being set up.

[Paisley Hibby]

As much as I hate to agree with the arguments put forward by the likes of Bovril in favour of Huns in Division 1, I'm beginning to think they might be right. I suppose you could argue that sporting integrity went out the window when football turned professional in the late 19th Century. Only Queens Park held out against it and look what that did to them.

[NAE NOOKIE]

[QUOTE=BOVRIL;3288410][QUOTE=PatHead;3288375]<br>
<br>
I dont have a clue if the editors of the Daily Record or The Scottish Sun attend the same lodge as Sandy Jardine ( for the sake of accuracy .. I actually have no idea of what Mr Jardine does in his spare time ). I always thought their love in with at least one half of the OF was due to selling papers. As far as I know the only church rupert murdoch worships at is the church of the mighty dollar.<br>
<br>
I also dont know if loads of football club owners / chairmen in Scotland have as their main priority the upholding of the Protestant status quo, or if they meet in dimly lit rooms once a week with their trouser legs rolled up.<br>
<br>
But unless you can come up with some credible evidence that there is any substance to what you have said here I would consider your comment to be ill advised, ill thought out, and on a par with the recent "Social unrest" comment of one of our fantastic football administrators.<br>

Hell .... even Donald Finlay has come out with an anti newco statement recently as far as I recall
I honestly dont think that this is an avenue this argument needs to be taken down.[/QUOTE
Don't dispute your comment about Murdoch but there are enough senior people in Scottish football with certain leanings. None of this effort was applied when Celtic were going to the wall which was the only comparable occassion. Yes I know that Celtic never reached this stage but there was no campaign to keep them afloat when they were in trouble. An unknown Canadian came along to save them. If you don't believe that "the rolled up trouser" brigade are having a significant input to this you must live with your head in the sand or outwith Scotland. BTW I don't envisage civil unrest or anything like that . With regard to Donald Finlay he is involved with another consortium wanting to buy/take over Rangers. He may have his own reasons for voting. Finally don't really care if you want to go down that avenue its not your thread to decide who says what

I didnt dispute your right to post anything you want on this thread. I asked you to give me some facts to back up what you said.

I certainly dont "live with my head in the sand" as you say ..... but I do live in the Borders, where thankfully I have never in 40 odd years of doing so come across the idiotic, moronic, backward .... ****g minority in some parts of Scotland who actually seem to think what school you went to actually matters.

Like I said .... you have made an extremely provocative statement .... and if you do think the argument will benefit from this line of thinking .... then give me some proof to back up what you said. If my head is in the sand, then feel free to enlighten me.

[monktonharp]

A lot of that is a complete contradiction to what Mike Reilly was saying only a couple of months ago, although i agree with most of this statement.you are starting to annoy me by going on about Mike Reilly. that statement was one of the best that has ever been reported/posted /suggested over the period of this shambollic drama. well done MikeReilly, and the HSA.

[Phil D. Rolls]

20 odd years ago, Hibernian almost went out of business. Where was the help for us at that time?

I am one of a generation of supporters who would rather suffer mediocrity within our means, than a shot at glory that makes us go bust. For that reason I think the rules of the market should apply to Rangers.

They had their good times with some exceptional players that fans of other clubs could only envy. That came at a cost, and the time has come to pay up.

I might have had some sympathy for them, had it not been for the arrogance of those who chose to speak for the club. They tell us we will go bust without them. Yet at any opportunity were ready to go into the English or Atlantic league, leaving us in the same position we will be in if we punt them now.

My belief is that the Old Firm are anachronisms, a throwback to a time when Scotland - and especially in a football sense - was a world power. What we need is a league that reflects a country of our size. Most importantly we need a league where teams can show ambition.

Rangers spending, we were told, would make Scotland stronger. By challenging for European Trophies our coefficient would rise. This would give other teams a chance to share in the spoils.

That has not happened. Yet similair sized countries to ours have provincial teams in the Champions League. Shamrock Rovers played in the group stages of the UEFA League last year. Something our teams could not do.

Ranngers should realise that far from destroying ourselves, we will be saving ourselves by refusing them entry to the league.

[AlbertK86]

So having read their reply it would appear Rod is one of the main instigators to have them in 1st Div

If this is true which lets face it rings as if it is then ....

No surprise there .... Money talks ... What has happened to the integrity now Mr Petrie

Aye .... As suspected the pound signs took over again !!!!

As for Rangers if they want the 3rd div then lets call their bluff cancel the vote and let them apply for the 3rd.

[DevonLoch]

For Hibs and their fans this summer ....
08/07/2012

Hear, hear! Well done to those who put that statement together, fantastic job. Let get it into the hands of the key decision makers/influencers.

:top marks

[murray26]

I'm not a regular poster on here but thats the kind of statement i can identify with, proud to be associated with this kind of staement, proud to be a Hibby, a club with dignity

[monktonharp]

20 odd years ago, Hibernian almost went out of business. Where was the help for us at that time?

I am one of a generation of supporters who would rather suffer mediocrity within our means, than a shot at glory that makes us go bust. For that reason I think the rules of the market should apply to Rangers.

They had their good times with some exceptional players that fans of other clubs could only envy. That came at a cost, and the time has come to pay up.

I might have had some sympathy for them, had it not been for the arrogance of those who chose to speak for the club. They tell us we will go bust without them. Yet at any opportunity were ready to go into the English or Atlantic league, leaving us in the same position we will be in if we punt them now.

My belief is that the Old Firm are anachronisms, a throwback to a time when Scotland - and especially in a football sense - was a world power. What we need is a league that reflects a country of our size. Most importantly we need a league where teams can show ambition.

Rangers spending, we were told, would make Scotland stronger. By challenging for European Trophies our coefficient would rise. This would give other teams a chance to share in the spoils.

That has not happened. Yet similair sized countries to ours have provincial teams in the Champions League. Shamrock Rovers played in the group stages of the UEFA League last year. Something our teams could not do.

Ranngers should realise that far from destroying ourselves, we will be saving ourselves by refusing them entry to the league. I would NEVER have simphany for either their club, or especially for their fans.the majority of them are glory huntin' bassas fae oot o' toon. then there is the so called "minority" involved wi' red hands orange sashes butchers aprons masonic lodges etc etc, but, call it what you like..........those ****ersa are due what's comin to thum, for spittin in my face and calling me a fenian bassa whenever they could.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I would NEVER have simphany for either their club, or especially for their fans.the majority of them are glory huntin' bassas fae oot o' toon. then there is the so called "minority" involved wi' red hands orange sashes butchers aprons masonic lodges etc etc, but, call it what you like..........those ****ersa are due what's comin to thum, for spittin in my face and calling me a fenian bassa whenever they could.

Yes, that's another thing to consider. :agree:

Actually, what's been going on in the press, calling us all mad and stuff like that, is another form of what you describe.

[blackpoolhibs]

you are starting to annoy me by going on about Mike Reilly. that statement was one of the best that has ever been reported/posted /suggested over the period of this shambollic drama. well done MikeReilly, and the HSA.

Why is it annoying you? I agree with the statement, but Reilly surely had nothing to do with this? If he did, then he's contradicted a fair bit on his previous statements. :confused:

[pampdahoosmoose]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/331667

Just wondering who the spokesman is? Totally agree by the way.:agree:



Sorry, just saw the post by invisible man!!

[NAE NOOKIE]

20 odd years ago, Hibernian almost went out of business. Where was the help for us at that time?

I am one of a generation of supporters who would rather suffer mediocrity within our means, than a shot at glory that makes us go bust. For that reason I think the rules of the market should apply to Rangers.

They had their good times with some exceptional players that fans of other clubs could only envy. That came at a cost, and the time has come to pay up.

I might have had some sympathy for them, had it not been for the arrogance of those who chose to speak for the club. They tell us we will go bust without them. Yet at any opportunity were ready to go into the English or Atlantic league, leaving us in the same position we will be in if we punt them now.

My belief is that the Old Firm are anachronisms, a throwback to a time when Scotland - and especially in a football sense - was a world power. What we need is a league that reflects a country of our size. Most importantly we need a league where teams can show ambition.

Rangers spending, we were told, would make Scotland stronger. By challenging for European Trophies our coefficient would rise. This would give other teams a chance to share in the spoils.

That has not happened. Yet similair sized countries to ours have provincial teams in the Champions League. Shamrock Rovers played in the group stages of the UEFA League last year. Something our teams could not do.

Ranngers should realise that far from destroying ourselves, we will be saving ourselves by refusing them entry to the league.

A lot of truth here FR ...... This is certainly what we should be aiming for.

I dont agree with how we should get there. I would rather we got to the situation you have outlined without losing any clubs along the way, including the Zombie Huns. But we do need to be working towards a league structure and football finances which make things fair for everybody in the future.

There are a few leagues around Europe who have outsized clubs, but they dont always win everything including the league. I would like us to be heading in that direction.

Your post is bang on in one respect certainly:

Scottish football never would have and never will go to the wall if the OF bugger off. I do believe that some clubs ( as they have stated ) now look in danger because they have tied far too much of their finances to the OF. A situation they should never have allowed to happen in the first place.

Thats why if it really does need the Zombie Huns in Division1 for them to get through this crisis I am prepared to talerate that. And no other reason.

But I would demand that after that, every club in Scotland looks at ways and means to make themselves sustainable without the OF. If they dont do that ........ Then hell mend them.

[GORDONSMITH7]

Statement coverage by the Herald.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/hibs-fans-vent-fury-at-regan-and-doncaster.18090422

BIG G

[Hibernia&Alba]

An excellent statement. It's effectiveness hasn't gone unnoticed amongst the Rangers support; there's a big response thread on Follow Follow, the language contained therein is strictly for adults only. I think a nerve has been touched :top marks

[phantomscotsman]

I'm not a regular poster on here but thats the kind of statement i can identify with, proud to be associated with this kind of staement, proud to be a Hibby, a club with dignity

:aok: i second this mate!!

[NAE NOOKIE]

As much as I hate to agree with the arguments put forward by the likes of Bovril in favour of Huns in Division 1, I'm beginning to think they might be right. I suppose you could argue that sporting integrity went out the window when football turned professional in the late 19th Century. Only Queens Park held out against it and look what that did to them.

Just for the sake of accuracy .... Its not that I'm in favour of the Zombie Huns in Division 1 .... Like everybody else I would prefer them in Division 3. Just not at any cost.

[Malthibby]

Still don't think we have seen the claimed cost in any way which is neutrally presented. There is bound to be pain & dislocation
initially if we get shot of the cheating bassas down to the third but I cannot believe its terminal.
What happens if they don't get out of the first; presumably that wouldn't be allowed either.
If a competition has to be this fixed it's not a competition, & if it's not a competition there is absolutely no point to any of it.
No surrender.
GG

[Hibs Class]

Just for the sake of accuracy .... Its not that I'm in favour of the Zombie Huns in Division 1 .... Like everybody else I would prefer them in Division 3. Just not at any cost.

Is that another way of saying you would accept them in Div 1 in certain circumstances/under certain conditions?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Is that another way of saying you would accept them in Div 1 in certain circumstances/under certain conditions?

If it was clearly the case that the likes of Killie, Motherwell and St Mirren's contention that their clubs are in danger of going to the wall if the current SKY deal was ripped up or they couldnt genuinly survive without the other stuff that might be lost with the Zombies in division 3 then yes I would accept them in division 1

But only to stop clubs going out of business ... no other reason.

I would then expect the clubs concerned to take urgent and drastic measures to spend their saved future finding ways to ensure that they are never in this position again .... coz if they had had any vision they would never have been in this position. I can assure you, this is out of sympathy with the folk who support these clubs .... not with the folk who own them.

As a club I couldnt give a **** what happens to the Zombie huns

[Bostonhibby]

you are starting to annoy me by going on about Mike Reilly. that statement was one of the best that has ever been reported/posted /suggested over the period of this shambollic drama. well done MikeReilly, and the HSA.

The statement was a commendable one but I am probably going to annoy you as well, sorry, Very happy with the HSA position on this one but as Blackpool points out, its quite an about turn from Riley's earlier position on the matter. Maybe its well done to the influencers in the HSA?

[invisible man]

The statement was a commendable one but I am probably going to annoy you as well, sorry, Very happy with the HSA position on this one but as Blackpool points out, its quite an about turn from Riley's earlier position on the matter. Maybe its well done to the influencers in the HSA?

The original comments from Mike were more of a personal opinion at that time.

This is a statement from the HSA with Mike's full approval which we feel captures the mood of the majority of Hibs fans, indeed the majority of football fans, all over Scotland.

[blackpoolhibs]

The original comments from Mike were more of a personal opinion at that time.

This is a statement from the HSA with Mike's full approval which we feel captures the mood of the majority of Hibs fans, indeed the majority of football fans, all over Scotland.

Only a month ago he held completely different views, and he actually said and i quote ( I think MOST HIBS FANS would reluctantly agree that the bottom line is that the SPL needs Rangers to prosper. It sticks in the throat a bit but it's true".)

A sickening quote from the Hibs club spokesman, And there's no way he's just giving his own opinion there, he's quoted as saying MOST Hibs fans held the same opinion as him, not remotely true.

He's either so far out of touch from the average Hibs fan, or he's been over ruled on this statement, or he's completely changed his opinion. Either way it does not look good dont you think?

[Eyrie]

Maybe he's realised that when he is asked for an opinion, it should be representative of the Hibs support and not his personal thoughts?

FWIW, good to hear that he is behind this statement.

[invisible man]

Only a month ago he held completely different views, and he actually said and i quote ( I think MOST HIBS FANS would reluctantly agree that the bottom line is that the SPL needs Rangers to prosper. It sticks in the throat a bit but it's true".)

A sickening quote from the Hibs club spokesman, And there's no way he's just giving his own opinion there, he's quoted as saying MOST Hibs fans held the same opinion as him, not remotely true.

He's either so far out of touch from the average Hibs fan, or he's been over ruled on this statement, or he's completely changed his opinion. Either way it does not look good dont you think?

Why do you have to turn this into having a go at Mike Riley?

We're proud of the statement that we feel captures the mood of the fans. Can we not just leave it at that?

[blackpoolhibs]

Why do you have to turn this into having a go at Mike Riley?

We're proud of the statement that we feel captures the mood of the fans. Can we not just leave it at that?

Why do you want to ignore what he said?


FWIW i agree with the statement 100%

[ronaldo7]

Maybe Mike Rielly had two bags o sweeties, and eh....

[The_Sauz]

If it was clearly the case that the likes of Killie, Motherwell and St Mirren's contention that their clubs are in danger of going to the wall if the current SKY deal was ripped up or they couldnt genuinly survive without the other stuff that might be lost with the Zombies in division 3 then yes I would accept them in division 1

But only to stop clubs going out of business ... no other reason.

I would then expect the clubs concerned to take urgent and drastic measures to spend their saved future finding ways to ensure that they are never in this position again .... coz if they had had any vision they would never have been in this position. I can assure you, this is out of sympathy with the folk who support these clubs .... not with the folk who own them.

As a club I couldnt give a **** what happens to the Zombie huns
One thing you are forgetting....how did those clubs (and the others) survive when we had no LIVE TV! All we had back then was recoded highlights, and the only live game was a cup final :agree: The only 2 teams who have benefited from live TV is the OF, while the rest have lost support. Live TV is used as promotional tools for the OF...not for Scottish football in general!
Pubs & Clubs subscriptions for Sky Sports went up last year, yet they cannot open on a Sunday before a 12 o'clock kick off, yet nobody has said anything about them loosing money.

[blackpoolhibs]

One thing you are forgetting....how did those clubs (and the others) survive when we had no LIVE TV! All we had back then was recoded highlights, and the only live game was a cup final :agree: The only 2 teams who have benefited from live TV is the OF, while the rest have lost support. Live TV is used as promotional tools for the OF...not for Scottish football in general!
Pubs & Clubs subscriptions for Sky Sports went up last year, yet they cannot open on a Sunday before a 12 o'clock kick off, yet nobody has said anything about them loosing money.

:agree: The SKY deal is just another vehicle to raise money for the old firm. And the cast offs fight over the scraps.

[NAE NOOKIE]

One thing you are forgetting....how did those clubs (and the others) survive when we had no LIVE TV! All we had back then was recoded highlights, and the only live game was a cup final :agree: The only 2 teams who have benefited from live TV is the OF, while the rest have lost support. Live TV is used as promotional tools for the OF...not for Scottish football in general!
Pubs & Clubs subscriptions for Sky Sports went up last year, yet they cannot open on a Sunday before a 12 o'clock kick off, yet nobody has said anything about them loosing money.

I dont disagree with that at all.

My concerns are based on the fact that these clubs have openly stated that their short term financial planning was based on the continued SKY deal and ( unfortunately ) visits from both sides of the OF. At least one of them has stated they will be in danger of going bust in the short term because of this hand to mouth way of running things. I dont know if thats true or not, but thats what they have said.

I totally agree that most clubs have in fact lost fans to live TV ... a statement by the Dunfermline chairman alluded to that years ago. In fact I doubt if the Hibs home support is any better for a visit from Aberdeen than it is for a visit from Celtic ... which before live telly would not have been the case.

I dont want to see any clubs going bust. But I do want them to learn a lesson from this and find ways to stop their potential home supporters going to Glasgow every Saturday. I think the non OF clubs have never fully made the OF and their fans face up to the truth, which is that any money they make from visits from the OF is more than offset by the fact that both OF clubs have been leeching fans, especially from the West of Scotland clubs, for years.
Fans who should be supporting Motherwell, Kilmarnock, St Mirren, Morton etc etc The list is endless.

All I want is clubs to get through this mess, so that when they get to the other side they can realise ( surely ) that things must change. And I cant stress it enough ... bust this myth that the OF subsidise everybody ... the truth is that in the overall scheme of things they cost clubs money.

[Phil MaGlass]

20 odd years ago, Hibernian almost went out of business. Where was the help for us at that time?

I am one of a generation of supporters who would rather suffer mediocrity within our means, than a shot at glory that makes us go bust. For that reason I think the rules of the market should apply to Rangers.

They had their good times with some exceptional players that fans of other clubs could only envy. That came at a cost, and the time has come to pay up.

I might have had some sympathy for them, had it not been for the arrogance of those who chose to speak for the club. They tell us we will go bust without them. Yet at any opportunity were ready to go into the English or Atlantic league, leaving us in the same position we will be in if we punt them now.My belief is that the Old Firm are anachronisms, a throwback to a time when Scotland - and especially in a football sense - was a world power. What we need is a league that reflects a country of our size. Most importantly we need a league where teams can show ambition.

Rangers spending, we were told, would make Scotland stronger. By challenging for European Trophies our coefficient would rise. This would give other teams a chance to share in the spoils.

That has not happened. Yet similair sized countries to ours have provincial teams in the Champions League. Shamrock Rovers played in the group stages of the UEFA League last year. Something our teams could not do.

Ranngers should realise that far from destroying ourselves, we will be saving ourselves by refusing them entry to the league.

In bold above,says it all really, **** thum

[archiebald]

Why do you want to ignore what he said?


FWIW i agree with the statement 100% He is committee man,cant speak against Mike- I would just like to know when they all sat round a table and agreed all this to be published.

sorry had to edit-normal punters in club knew nothing

[blackpoolhibs]

He is committee man,cant speak against Mike- I just know when they all sat round a table and agreed all this to be published.

Thanks thats how i'd imagine most committee's work? Was he out voted, did he abstain or has he completely changed his opinion? :confused:

[mixumatosis]

"The Rangers fans have made it very clear that we wish the club to resume playing in Division 3. This has been communicated to both the board and the manager of our club and they are entirely supportive."

Then what's f*****g stopping you ??? I wish to christ they'd stop with this "we wanted to go but you couldn't live without us" bull****.

Even in a rulebook as shambolic and wilfully ignored as the SPL's there surely can't be anything prohibiting members from resigining their place ?

[invisible man]

He is committee man,cant speak against Mike- I would just like to know when they all sat round a table and agreed all this to be published.

sorry had to edit-normal punters in club knew nothing

Discussed at 8.47pm on Thursday 5th July, written on the evening of Friday 6th July, agreed to publish at 1.12pm on Sunday 8th July.

[Hibeesforever]

:flag:Great statement and makes me proud to be a Hibby. :flag:

Certainly the fans of all clubs will need to turn out this season to ensure that short-term drops in revenue are offset but things will be no where as bad as the Glasgow based scaremongering put forward.

Despite what some might say, there is no way that SKY will risk pulling out because with rapidly changing broadband technologies, another TV provider could take the slot. Scotland is a very important market. We should be getting more not less TV money and it is a great chance to re-negotiate media and wider deals. Business sponsors that walk away now will not be viewed upon favourably by the average football supporter.

As in business, clubs rise and fall. I look forward to the day (3 years is sufficient) that the club formally known as Rangers return to Easter Road in the league. Having watched Hibs for 33 years, I am always an optimist and believe that now is the time for this proud club to emerge from its European slumber :pfgwa

[Mikey]

Will the HSA be issuing a follow up statement endorsing Rod Petrie's aim to recruit a further 3000 season ticket holders and encouraging Hibs fans to buy a season ticket?

[matty_f]

Will the HSA be issuing a follow up statement endorsing Rod Petrie's aim to recruit a further 3000 season ticket holders and encouraging Hibs fans to buy a season ticket?

That's a cracking idea. :agree:

[The Modfather]

Will the HSA be issuing a follow up statement endorsing Rod Petrie's aim to recruit a further 3000 season ticket holders and encouraging Hibs fans to buy a season ticket?


That's a cracking idea. :agree:

You pair have been very vocal on your views on the board and season tickets etc, which you are perfectly entitled to. As one of the 3000 who wont be getting a sesason ticket and who isn't attending semi regularly (see post 189 on the Message From The Board Thread where I feel I gave a fair and balanced summary of my reasons). The thread moves at such a pace that posts can be lost. Anyway, can I ask you pair to comment on some of the points I had in my post?

"I appreciate this season there are many extenuating circumstances, but I'm sorry, I don't feel I am letting the club down by not renewing or attending regularly, despite being able to. Here is a couple of points I've not seen covered:

1. What are the confirmed financial implications of Rangers in the 3rd division, other than one guaranteed (depending on fixtures) away sell out? I've not seen anything about specific sponsors or sky pulling out.

2. As above, if nothing is confirmed so far other than one guaranteed away sell out, I would be very keen to attend the games against Dundee and spend money in the clubstore etc to make up this offset, and hopefully get a full house.

3. We have sold around 7000 season tickets (probably more to date) This is more than the likes of Inverness, Motherwell, St Mirren etc etc, who face the same financial ramifications and shortfalls as we do. I see no reason, why we shouldn't be competitive with those teams. I'm not asking for 2nd or 3rd etc, but that we punch the weight of our season ticket sales e.g. around mid-table, maybe lower top 6.

4. For those that say it is not easy to build a new squad from scratch and the likes of Dundee Utd have built a spine over time and supplemented it each season. That is a valid point, however this mass cull and complete new squad was actually the boards masterplan under Yogi, and to lesser extents Calderwood and Fenlon. So, why can't we afford a squad to compete mid-table based on what we have sold thus far, which is still a bigger budget than most teams this season?"

Cheers

[Weir7]

You pair have been very vocal on your views on the board and season tickets etc, which you are perfectly entitled to. As one of the 3000 who wont be getting a season ticket and who isn't attending semi regularly (see post 189 on the Message From The Board Thread where I feel I gave a fair and balanced summary of my reasons). The thread moves at such a pace that posts can be lost. Anyway, can I ask you pair to comment on some of the points I had in my post?

"I appreciate this season there are many extenuating circumstances, but I'm sorry, I don't feel I am letting the club down by not renewing or attending regularly, despite being able to. Here is a couple of points I've not seen covered:

1. What are the confirmed financial implications of Rangers in the 3rd division, other than one guaranteed (depending on fixtures) away sell out? I've not seen anything about specific sponsors or sky pulling out.

2. As above, if nothing is confirmed so far other than one guaranteed away sell out, I would be very keen to attend the games against Dundee and spend money in the club store etc to make up this offset, and hopefully get a full house.

3. We have sold around 7000 season tickets (probably more to date) This is more than the likes of Inverness, Motherwell, St Mirren etc etc, who face the same financial ramifications and shortfalls as we do. I see no reason, why we shouldn't be competitive with those teams. I'm not asking for 2nd or 3rd etc, but that we punch the weight of our season ticket sales e.g. around mid-table, maybe lower top 6.

4. For those that say it is not easy to build a new squad from scratch and the likes of Dundee Utd have built a spine over time and supplemented it each season. That is a valid point, however this mass cull and complete new squad was actually the boards masterplan under Yogi, and to lesser extents Calderwood and Fenlon. So, why can't we afford a squad to compete mid-table based on what we have sold thus far, which is still a bigger budget than most teams this season?"

Cheers
Exactly. Petrie scaremongering. They dnt no if income will be reduced from TV next season

[jacomo]

Exactly. Petrie scaremongering. They dnt no if income will be reduced from TV next season

I think this is nonsense to be honest. telling Sevco where to go was undoubtedly the right decision, you would have to expect an adverse affect on income. If the tv deal does collapse then increased attendance will be vital.

Having said that, the main reason for Hibs problems is not Rangers but repeated failure by a succession of managers.

[Weir7]

I think this is nonsense to be honest. telling Sevco where to go was undoubtedly the right decision, you would have to expect an adverse affect on income. If the tv deal does collapse then increased attendance will be vital.

Having said that, the main reason for Hibs problems is not Rangers but repeated failure by a succession of managers.
TV still in tact. So not nonsense.

I agree we are in a mess and its the boards fault.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Exactly. Petrie scaremongering. They dnt no if income will be reduced from TV next season

I'm sorry, but it's naive in the extreme to think there won't at least be a cut in the amount of TV revenue.


To offer some perspective, I draw some viewing information from “IFM Sports Marketing Surveys 2010-11 SCOTTISH PREMIER LEAGUE | CLYDESDALE BANK Q3 Audience Report”. It covers 40 live SPL games covered on Sky and ESPN.

The highest match audiences belong to the three Old Firm games, 894,032, 828,373 and 641,960. Outside of the Old Firm matches, the next highest belongs to an ICT v Rangers game, 323,368 and then a Motherwell v Celtic game which came in at 260,966. Only three other games, which do not involve either Rangers or Celtic, rise above 100,000. They are, two Edinburgh derbies, 124,476 and 115,982 and a St Mirren v Hibs fixture that commanded 218,223. The reason that this game had such an audience was that it followed an Old Firm game. The lowest audience belonged to a Kilmarnock v Motherwell match which was watched by only 30,580.

http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/132-time-to-think-inside-the-box

[Weir7]

I'm sorry, but it's naive in the extreme to think there won't at least be a cut in the amount of TV revenue.



http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/132-time-to-think-inside-the-box
You could be correct. But for 2012\13 there is a deal in place. I don't thiink SKY will pull out as the negative press wouldn't be worth. Everybody - fans, clubs, SPL, pokiticians should be putting severe pressure on them.

Drop in income will drive down wages of overpaid SPL players. Well over due.

[invisible man]

Will the HSA be issuing a follow up statement endorsing Rod Petrie's aim to recruit a further 3000 season ticket holders and encouraging Hibs fans to buy a season ticket?

We're working on it :wink:

[Part/Time Supporter]

You could be correct. But for 2012\13 there is a deal in place. I don't thiink SKY will pull out as the negative press wouldn't be worth. Everybody - fans, clubs, SPL, pokiticians should be putting severe pressure on them.

Drop in income will drive down wages of overpaid SPL players. Well over due.

There isn't a binding deal in place.

The SPL signed a three year contract with Sky and ESPN in 2009 for £13M pa. There was an option for two further years, but this was contingent on TV offering £125M for a new contract. (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2011/07/03/spl-could-ditch-sky-and-espn-tv-deals-to-maximise-income-from-other-broadcasters-86908-23244362/) Sky and ESPN offered £16M pa for five years from 2012, but the deal was never signed (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2173310/Rangers-coming-soon-Scottish-Third-Division.html). So effectively there is now no TV contract at all. Sky and ESPN are intending to show SPL football (as shown by their advance schedules), but they will renegotiate on the basis of Rangers not being in the league.

[matty_f]

You pair have been very vocal on your views on the board and season tickets etc, which you are perfectly entitled to. As one of the 3000 who wont be getting a sesason ticket and who isn't attending semi regularly (see post 189 on the Message From The Board Thread where I feel I gave a fair and balanced summary of my reasons). The thread moves at such a pace that posts can be lost. Anyway, can I ask you pair to comment on some of the points I had in my post?

"I appreciate this season there are many extenuating circumstances, but I'm sorry, I don't feel I am letting the club down by not renewing or attending regularly, despite being able to. Here is a couple of points I've not seen covered:

1. What are the confirmed financial implications of Rangers in the 3rd division, other than one guaranteed (depending on fixtures) away sell out? I've not seen anything about specific sponsors or sky pulling out.

2. As above, if nothing is confirmed so far other than one guaranteed away sell out, I would be very keen to attend the games against Dundee and spend money in the clubstore etc to make up this offset, and hopefully get a full house.

3. We have sold around 7000 season tickets (probably more to date) This is more than the likes of Inverness, Motherwell, St Mirren etc etc, who face the same financial ramifications and shortfalls as we do. I see no reason, why we shouldn't be competitive with those teams. I'm not asking for 2nd or 3rd etc, but that we punch the weight of our season ticket sales e.g. around mid-table, maybe lower top 6.

4. For those that say it is not easy to build a new squad from scratch and the likes of Dundee Utd have built a spine over time and supplemented it each season. That is a valid point, however this mass cull and complete new squad was actually the boards masterplan under Yogi, and to lesser extents Calderwood and Fenlon. So, why can't we afford a squad to compete mid-table based on what we have sold thus far, which is still a bigger budget than most teams this season?"

Cheers

What are my views on the Board? I am critical of them and prior to the Sevco situation was posting that it was up to the Board to spend to attract fans back. The fïnancial landscape has changed and regardless of the figures involved with potential losses of income, Hibs were already skint.

I want to see a strong Hibernian. I don't support a Board or a chairman, the football team is what I want to see doing well. That is the sole driving force behind my backing of Petrie's message.


For the team to prosper we need guaranteed income, and that's season ticket money. I want to see a strong and successful Hibs side, and I want to see as big a support as possible. The club is going into a difficult time, whether we want to accept it or not, the heid yins of Scottish football are much better placed to project the financial impacts of newco in div 3 than supporters who were so desperate to see Sevco in division 3 that they dismissed any points raised as scaremongering.

I'm not going to address your points as I genuinely don't believe there's any point and frankly I've wasted enough time on this subject as it is.

[Kaiser1962]

20 odd years ago, Hibernian almost went out of business. Where was the help for us at that time?

I am one of a generation of supporters who would rather suffer mediocrity within our means, than a shot at glory that makes us go bust.


This is it for me FR and history, when there is no major benefactor in place, bears this out.

We are currently more "mediocre" then I would like to be though.

[Jonnyboy]

Will the HSA be issuing a follow up statement endorsing Rod Petrie's aim to recruit a further 3000 season ticket holders and encouraging Hibs fans to buy a season ticket?

As a Supporters Association they should have been doing that without having to be asked IMO


TV still in tact. So not nonsense.

I agree we are in a mess and its the boards fault.

Intact?............ or


You could be correct. But for 2012\13 there is a deal in place. I don't thiink SKY will pull out as the negative press wouldn't be worth. Everybody - fans, clubs, SPL, pokiticians should be putting severe pressure on them.

Drop in income will drive down wages of overpaid SPL players. Well over due.

......... do you still only 'think' they wont pull out?


We're working on it :wink:

Taking longer than War and Peace!