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View Full Version : Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan - should they go? (merged)



Leith_Hibee
04-07-2012, 10:35 AM
This is not a personal attach on Doncaster, but is he really the right man to be leading discussions on where The Rangers should be playing their football next season.

He has gone public before that his main responsibility is to generate income for Scottish Football via Competition Sponsorship and TV money. I would imagine that as part of his renumeration he'll have an incentive scheme whereby he gets a cut of any uplift in current deals (speculating but would make sense).

Does he really have the best interests of the game in Scotland when leading these discussions? Appears to me all the chat is to do with ££££'s and not the sctructure of the game in Scotland.

I'm outraged that there may not be a decision on the SPL vote today as they are not getting the answer they want!!

Steve-O
04-07-2012, 10:37 AM
He's a dickhead...GET HIM OUT NOW :bye:

Baldy Foghorn
04-07-2012, 10:38 AM
This is not a personal attach on Doncaster, but is he really the right man to be leading discussions on where The Rangers should be playing their football next season.

He has gone public before that his main responsibility is to generate income for Scottish Football via Competition Sponsorship and TV money. I would imagine that as part of his renumeration is an incentive scheme whereby he gets a cut of any uplift in current deals (speculating but would make sense).

Does he really have the best interests of the game in Scotland when leading these discussions? Appears to me all the chat is to do with ££££'s and the sctructure of the game in Scotland.

I'm outraged that there may not be a decision on the SPL vote today as they are not getting the answer they want!!

The man is out of his depth, should be nowhere near the position he holds in our game....Corrupt to the core.....

H18sry
04-07-2012, 10:38 AM
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/neil-doncaster-should-resign-from-his-post-in-the/ sign and share :agree:

JeMeSouviens
04-07-2012, 10:40 AM
This *is* a personal attack on Doncaster: he is an inept and incompetent chief executive who has completely failed to handle the Rangers crisis and its aftermath. He should resign now and if he doesn't, he should be sacked.

JimBHibees
04-07-2012, 10:50 AM
Is it possible that he (and the other clubs) did indeed agree to an OF clause in the tv deal (thinking there would neveer be a circumstance that it would have any bearing) and are now panicking big style that Rangers are bust.

marinello59
04-07-2012, 10:59 AM
The man is out of his depth, should be nowhere near the position he holds in our game....Corrupt to the core.....

Doncaster isn't corrupt. He is merely incompetent.

SneakersO'Toole
04-07-2012, 11:01 AM
Doncaster isn't corrupt. He is merely incompetent.

He is breaking and bending rules to suit his own agenda, rather than that of the Scottish Game as a whole. That is corrupt in my book.

Baldy Foghorn
04-07-2012, 11:04 AM
He is breaking and bending rules to suit his own agenda, rather than that of the Scottish Game as a whole. That is corrupt in my book.

Spot on.....The continual changing of the goalposts to suit Derhun is CORRUPT

marinello59
04-07-2012, 11:06 AM
He is breaking and bending rules to suit his own agenda, rather than that of the Scottish Game as a whole. That is corrupt in my book.

Doncaster is an employee. We should be looking to his bosses for the real culprits in all of this. If this vote is delayed today the club Chairmen will be only to happy to let Doncaster be the fall guy.

blackpoolhibs
04-07-2012, 11:08 AM
Doncaster isn't corrupt. He is merely incompetent.

I'm not so sure, if he followed the rules as they are now, those same rules every SPL club signed up for. His delaying tactics are devious at best, some might say corrupt?

He wants Rangers in the SPL, he knows the non Rangers fans are against this. Those clubs have said they wont vote them back in the SPL, so he's delaying it until he gets a decision from the SFL, bullying them into accepting the division 1 vote.

If the SFL dont do this, and say they must start at the bottom, i'm convinced he will want and get them back in the SPL. That door should be shut today, the vote should be today, but he's delayed that to leave this door open. That is in my opinion corrupt.

Baldy Foghorn
04-07-2012, 11:22 AM
I'm not so sure, if he followed the rules as they are now, those same rules every SPL club signed up for. His delaying tactics are devious at best, some might say corrupt?

He wants Rangers in the SPL, he knows the non Rangers fans are against this. Those clubs have said they wont vote them back in the SPL, so he's delaying it until he gets a decision from the SFL, bullying them into accepting the division 1 vote.

If the SFL dont do this, and say they must start at the bottom, i'm convinced he will want and get them back in the SPL. That door should be shut today, the vote should be today, but he's delayed that to leave this door open. That is in my opinion corrupt.

:agree::agree:

The saga rumbles on, and smells worse than a dead carcass

greenginger
04-07-2012, 11:24 AM
Doncaster isn't corrupt. He is merely incompetent.


Doncaster is the man who said there was no difference between a CVA and Liquidation as a means of exiting administration and liquidated clubs should just reform in the same league.

He was with Norwich City before and obviously a product of the " Norwich Family " as per the song.

happiehibbie
04-07-2012, 11:36 AM
This Stinks the whole situation is corupt,

EH Vote cancelled again !! WHY

Doncaster must go he needs to grow a pair and make the right decisions

I bet he supports Rangers

Gatecrasher
04-07-2012, 11:38 AM
I cant stand him, every time he opens his trap its about the tv deal or preserving the staus quo. He's been at it for months now, I cant understand how a person like him can weasel his way in to position like he holds.

SteveHFC
04-07-2012, 11:49 AM
Doncaster can **** off.

scoopyboy
04-07-2012, 11:55 AM
When is the meeting due to start?

Has it taken place?

Hiber-nation
04-07-2012, 12:00 PM
Might have been mentioned before but Neil Doncaster is an anagram of No Credentials.

Strange eh :greengrin

R'Albin
04-07-2012, 12:01 PM
Watching him on SSN I'm actually in awe of the amount of pish he speaks. It's almost a talent.

Saorsa
04-07-2012, 12:06 PM
Doncaster isn't corrupt. He is merely incompetent.he's as bent as a 9 bob note.

Saorsa
04-07-2012, 12:08 PM
I cant stand him, every time he opens his trap its about the tv deal or preserving the staus quo. He's been at it for months now, I cant understand how a person like him can weasel his way in to position like he holds.ask Petrie!

marinello59
04-07-2012, 12:08 PM
he's as bent as a 9 bob note.

Not if he is doing as instructed by his employers he isn't. Incompetent, not bent.

Part/Time Supporter
04-07-2012, 12:11 PM
From Clyde FC's account of the meeting (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/i5ko8j):


Nowhere in the presentation was account taken on the impact to the finances of clubs, and more importantly the relevance of the game, should supporters stay at home.

Everyone might as well just sit at home or go shopping. SPL has no interest whatsoever in the fan. Although it is open to question how long Sky/ESPN will televise if there is no-one in the stadium.

JimBHibees
04-07-2012, 12:14 PM
From Clyde FC's account of the meeting (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/i5ko8j):



Everyone might as well just sit at home or go shopping. SPL has no interest whatsoever in the fan. Although it is open to question how long Sky/ESPN will televise if there is no-one in the stadium.

Kind of says it all a completely one sided argument put forward to assist one team with no consideration or proper attempt to diligently consider the real impact of Rangers playing in whatever division they might play in.

SneakersO'Toole
04-07-2012, 12:15 PM
Not if he is doing as instructed by his employers he isn't. Incompetent, not bent.

Whether he is the monkey or the organ grinder is irrelevant, he is a leading figure in this whole sorry mess which means he is part of the corruption we are witnessing with our very eyes.

InchHibby
04-07-2012, 12:20 PM
Might have been mentioned before but Neil Doncaster is an anagram of No Credentials.

Strange eh :greengrin
It's also an anagram for Sod Cretan Neil:greengrin

DC_Hibs
04-07-2012, 12:25 PM
enquiries@scotprem.com
Subject: DONCASTER OUT NOW



Direct to Bawjaws - neildoncaster@scotprem.com

marinello59
04-07-2012, 12:27 PM
Whether he is the monkey or the organ grinder is irrelevant, he is a leading figure in this whole sorry mess which means he is part of the corruption we are witnessing with our very eyes.

We are witnessing incompetent administrative dullards squirming as they try to extract themselves from decades of mismanagement. That's a bit different from corruption. Doncaster should go at the earliest opportunity but making him the main hate figure could end up letting the genuinely guilty use him as a sacrificial lamb.

Saorsa
04-07-2012, 12:27 PM
Not if he is doing as instructed by his employers he isn't. Incompetent, not bent.They're all bent and they're all in it up tae their necks.

This whole farce has firmly knocked on the heid and removed any misconception that anybody may have had that Scottish fitba isnae completely and utterly rigged in favour of just two clubs. They're no even trying tae hide it now.

Corrupt and rotten tae the core.

DH1875
04-07-2012, 12:39 PM
Doncaster is an employee. We should be looking to his bosses for the real culprits in all of this. If this vote is delayed today the club Chairmen will be only to happy to let Doncaster be the fall guy.

If the vote is delayed today they can ALL do one. Why would it? 8 clubs have already said their voting No so why delay.

In the mean time, get this guy to duck. He should have fallen on his sword weeks ago. If ayones pushing for Rangers it's him.

pacorosssco
04-07-2012, 01:01 PM
He is not all to blame. Michel Platini has a dream of only 16-20 football clubs globally with huge television rights and the rest feeder clubs.

So what if money is less. Clubs will have to pay less. It would good to see a league full of young scottish players and seasoned pros at clubs fighting it out for honours year in year out.

Sadly the bigger picture for football is smaller clubs will be squeezed dry and out of business

heretoday
04-07-2012, 01:30 PM
Doncaster and Roddy Forsyth were all over the radio this morning talking about the situation. It became apparent that Doncaster is strongly in favour of Rangers. He said Rangers had already been heavily fined, docked points etc.

Forsyth is of course a Hun so I'd expect nothing else but bluenose talk from him but I dispute his claim that a large number of Scottish fans would rather see their own team go under than have Rangers readmitted to the league. Where's his evidence?

Instead of bleating about how badly his favourites are being treated a degree of humility would be refreshing. If so many of us hate Rangers so much how about apologising for the shameful behaviour of the club and their cowardly loudmouth supporters over the last few decades?

Tha Cabbage Kid
04-07-2012, 01:31 PM
i would like to know why its even an option for the newco rangers to be istalled into the first division. if they are not to play in the spl the have to start from the beginning. and why not!

I am seathing at this ********g farce

blackpoolhibs
04-07-2012, 01:37 PM
Doncaster and Roddy Forsyth were all over the radio this morning talking about the situation. It became apparent that Doncaster is strongly in favour of Rangers. He said Rangers had already been heavily fined, docked points etc.

Forsyth is of course a Hun so I'd expect nothing else but bluenose talk from him but I dispute his claim that a large number of Scottish fans would rather see their own team go under than have Rangers readmitted to the league. Where's his evidence?

Instead of bleating about how badly his favourites are being treated a degree of humility would be refreshing. If so many of us hate Rangers so much how about apologising for the shameful behaviour of the club and their cowardly loudmouth supporters over the last few decades?

This has nothing to do with Rangers though, this is a different club.

EskbankHibby
04-07-2012, 01:42 PM
This has nothing to do with Rangers though, this is a different club.

:agree:, exactly, 'new' Rangers having to apply to get into the 3rd division is NOT a punishment. It's what all new league clubs have to do (Annan etc).

ginger_rice
04-07-2012, 01:48 PM
What I really cannot stomach is the implication that Celtic and Rangers would never be allowed to be relegated, we always suspected that would be the case now we know that's exactly what those running the game want.

lapsedhibee
04-07-2012, 02:01 PM
Doncaster should go at the earliest opportunity but making him the main hate figure could end up letting the genuinely guilty use him as a sacrificial lamb.

Hmmm, yes, quite like the thought of Traynor & Young tucking in to him with a glass of fine red.

Aldo
04-07-2012, 02:05 PM
This has nothing to do with Rangers though, this is a different club.

Correct. The Dundee/Livi/Clydebank/Airdrie etc were forced to do as they were told and abide by the punishment dished out..... Sorry wait a minute it's the Newco formally know as Hun *******s so it's one rule, bend over backwards to save the ***** and don't give z **** about ghe rules and **** the rest.

Bollocks. I really do wonder what will happen if the SFL members vote NO. That's when the fun and games would start (of get more twisted)

Pedantic_Hibee
04-07-2012, 02:11 PM
'No one likes us, we don't care'.

Turns out they do care, eh?

Get them horsed out and make them apply to get into Division Three. Integrity IS beyond purchase.

If they are parachuted into anything higher than the 3rd Division then Scottish football will not receive a single penny from me for as long as I live. What would be the point?

Why don't the Old Firm form their own wee league and berate each other 38 times a season? That way Sky can get their c*cks oot, Doncaster and Regan will thrash each other into a frenzy and the rest of us, the cannon fodder, can get on with life without having to host the two biggest stains on the underpants of Scottish football ever again.

We went down to the 1st in 1999 and came back bigger and stronger. Scottish football as a whole needs to take 1 step back before it can take 2 forward.

Get them oot the way, cut our cloth, completely restructure our academies and coaching and the way we market the league and start from scratch.

German football, the German national team, the French and Spanish national teams all took steps back to achieve their various successes. Until we sort our pathetic set-up (rigged and amended to pander to the Old Firm) then we'll forever be stuck in Groundhog Day. And it's sickening that the SFA want us to remain so.

Lincoln Green
04-07-2012, 02:23 PM
Have just watched the interview with Doncaster and I am absolutely raging.

BBC Scotland (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/18710456)

It seems that Rangers in the third division is not viable?!? Nonsense. He then says that newco Rangers need to be treated fairly. He also didnt give a proper answer to the need for fans views to be considered. The bias is unbelieveable and the only concern shown is for money.

The whole thing is a disgrace. Regardless of the outcome of this situation Doncaster, Regan, etc, etc need to go. Their collective mismanagement of this issue has been grim.

How much simpler would it have been if after the Gretna debacle there were rules in place that any reformed teams regardless of reason started again at the bottom?

lapsedhibee
04-07-2012, 02:27 PM
How much simpler would it have been if after the Gretna debacle there were rules in place that any reformed teams regardless of reason started again at the bottom?

Not sure that it would have been much different. We'd just have heard a marginally different set of lies about Armageddon from the Donkey pack.

woodyloon
04-07-2012, 02:34 PM
It look like the people who think they can run Scottish Football are willing to take a gamble with Scottish Football. They don't really care if the teams outside the OF have fans turn away in there 100's if not thousands as long as the OF are alright.

Basically we should be glad for the crumbs the OF leave for us to survive on. I really think Scottish Football is looked on as a mockery, other associations would of made a stance on this a long before it developed into theis farce.

ginger_rice
04-07-2012, 02:34 PM
Have just watched the interview with Doncaster and I am absolutely raging.

BBC Scotland (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/18710456)

It seems that Rangers in the third division is not viable?!? Nonsense. He then says that newco Rangers need to be treated fairly. He also didnt give a proper answer to the need for fans views to be considered. The bias is unbelieveable and the only concern shown is for money. They weren't very viable in the SPL either though!

The whole thing is a disgrace. Regardless of the outcome of this situation Doncaster, Regan, etc, etc need to go. Their collective mismanagement of this issue has been grim.

How much simpler would it have been if after the Gretna debacle there were rules in place that any reformed teams regardless of reason started again at the bottom?

Aye me too, he's banging on at the end about the rules being applied fairly, and how Rangers should be treated the same as every one else....aye right! Would he be there today arguing for Motherwell, Hearts or Aberdeen to be placed in the second tier of Scottish Football if they had gone into receivership, no didn't think so.

alan1875
04-07-2012, 02:36 PM
He bangs on about not harming the innocent 41 clubs as if it would be doing us a favour... Which then gives advantage to rangers.. Madness

Maybe if those who brokered a tv deal on a premise that the the Huns would be in the league all this **** wouldn't even be talked about... This is doing my nut in. Dodgy propaganda throughout all this nonsense

Spike Mandela
04-07-2012, 02:45 PM
Aye me too, he's banging on at the end about the rules being applied fairly, and how Rangers should be treated the same as every one else....aye right! Would he be there today arguing for Motherwell, Hearts or Aberdeen to be placed in the second tier of Scottish Football if they had gone into receivership, no didn't think so.

Yeah he was doing reasonably well up to that point:greengrin

Did his nose also appear to be getting bigger during that interview as wrll:greengrin

Dan Sarf
04-07-2012, 03:18 PM
I’ve heard from an insider that Doncaster & Co will be working overnight on a new restructuring plan. He says these are the top secret outline details (from draft document):

1. All the other SPL teams to go into receivership.
2. The SPL is folded and reformed as SFL 4.
3. 20 points deducted from each team in SFL 4.
4. They impose a year-long transfer ban on themselves (which they can appeal against later, obviously, once the deal has gone through).
5. Two teams are promoted from SFL 4 to SFL 3 and so on, back up to SFL 1 (to be renamed the SPL once Rangers and Celtic get there).
Reasons they might fall for it:
A. All teams become debt free so no one goes bust.
B. All teams "guilty" so the fans can’t point the finger.
C. Sky gets the Old Firm games.
D. Rangers and Celtic to divide Sky proceeds 50/50 so guaranteed promotion (Neil, this bit needs finessing).
E. Rangers are saved - and so are our jobs!

Seems a genuine document to me. What does everyone think?

Hibercelona
04-07-2012, 03:24 PM
I’ve heard from an insider that Doncaster & Co will be working overnight on a new restructuring plan. He says these are the top secret outline details (from draft document):

1. All the other SPL teams to go into receivership.
2. The SPL is folded and reformed as SFL 4.
3. 20 points deducted from each team in SFL 4.
4. They impose a year-long transfer ban on themselves (which they can appeal against later, obviously, once the deal has gone through).
5. Two teams are promoted from SFL 4 to SFL 3 and so on, back up to SFL 1 (to be renamed the SPL once Rangers and Celtic get there).
Reasons they might fall for it:
A. All teams become debt free so no one goes bust.
B. All teams "guilty" so the fans can’t point the finger.
C. Sky gets the Old Firm games.
D. Rangers and Celtic to divide Sky proceeds 50/50 so guaranteed promotion (Neil, this bit needs finessing).
E. Rangers are saved - and so are our jobs!

Seems a genuine document to me. What does everyone think?

He wouldn't live very long.

Sean1875
04-07-2012, 03:24 PM
Have just watched the interview with Doncaster and I am absolutely raging.

BBC Scotland (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/18710456)

It seems that Rangers in the third division is not viable?!? Nonsense. He then says that newco Rangers need to be treated fairly. He also didnt give a proper answer to the need for fans views to be considered. The bias is unbelieveable and the only concern shown is for money.

The whole thing is a disgrace. Regardless of the outcome of this situation Doncaster, Regan, etc, etc need to go. Their collective mismanagement of this issue has been grim.

How much simpler would it have been if after the Gretna debacle there were rules in place that any reformed teams regardless of reason started again at the bottom?

"It would be wrong to apply the rules differently to Rangers, as they're applied to every other club"

Right at the end there. If he truly believed this the NewCo would be in Division Three by now. Doncaster is a twat of the highest order.

Sean1875
04-07-2012, 03:27 PM
Also keeps banging on about how the other 41 'innocent' clubs would be punished financially if Rangers went into the third division. Obviously clubs are well aware of the financial implications of whats happening and are voting accordingly. The vact that it was an 'overwhelming' No vote obviously shows we're prepared to take the hit. Sick of this welt trying to make himself look like the knight in shining armour and protecting our clubs.

Aldo
04-07-2012, 04:13 PM
At the end of the day they brought this upon themselves and ended up in liquidation.

Ask the likes of Airdrie/Clydebank who didn't get voted back in in place of.... Annan.

**** them... **** Doncaster and I am really hoping that the SFL clubs vote against them too.....if so the door has been closed locked and bolted and

NEWCO can go and do one.

kaimendhibs
04-07-2012, 04:25 PM
Cant stand the sight of hi. He is a much more of a spokesman for newco than spl as far as i can see.

givescotlandfreedom
04-07-2012, 04:53 PM
Cant stand the sight of hi. He is a much more of a spokesman for newco than spl as far as i can see.

Spot on. Hun cheerleader's all he is.

Geo_1875
04-07-2012, 04:55 PM
Twisted **** could lick his own back and from the look of him probably does.

snooky
04-07-2012, 05:56 PM
'Rangers' (dodo or newco) are fighting for survival and they're using every means they can to achieve this.
You would basically expect that from anyone or anything in their situation. (Not that I like or condone their behaviour).

The biggest villains to emerge from this whole mess are the Donkey Gang. The very people who should be showing leadership, honesty, strength and resilience in ensuring all rules are abided by and that everything is done above board in a professional manner. Alas, they've failed on all accounts and have proved to be lower than a snake's belly.

Whatever the outcome, they should be banished from football - forever.

lapsedhibee
04-07-2012, 06:30 PM
'Rangers' (dodo or newco) are fighting for survival and they're using every means they can to achieve this.
You would basically expect that from anyone or anything in their situation. (Not that I like or condone their behaviour).

The biggest villains to emerge from this whole mess are the Donkey Gang. The very people who should be showing leadership, honesty, strength and resilience in ensuring all rules are abided by and that everything is done above board in a professional manner. Alas, they've failed on all accounts and have proved to be lower than a snake's belly.

Whatever the outcome, they should be banished from football - forever.

Alex Thomson twittering that The Donkey is now saying that no clubs will go bust as a result of today's decision.

Hibercelona
04-07-2012, 06:33 PM
Alex Thomson twittering that The Donkey is now saying that no clubs will go bust as a result of today's decision.

Right...

So it'll be "armageddon", but no club will actually go bust....

s.a.m
04-07-2012, 06:37 PM
Right...

So it'll be "armageddon", but no club will actually go bust....

Maybe pinkiemageddon?

lapsedhibee
04-07-2012, 06:39 PM
Right...

So it'll be "armageddon", but no club will actually go bust....

In The Donkey's world it must be armageddon every time a 5p piece slips down the back of the sofa.

Hibercelona
04-07-2012, 06:42 PM
Maybe pinkiemageddon?

I think it will be fistmageddon if this moron doesn't step down.

VickMackie
04-07-2012, 07:13 PM
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/neil-doncaster-should-resign-from-his-post-in-the/ sign and share :agree:

Signed

Bostonhibby
04-07-2012, 08:28 PM
Doncaster isn't corrupt. He is merely incompetent.

Sadly like so many of the "B" list businessmen who default into football, just inept and the minute they have to do anything other than a bit of bureaucratic shuffling about they are totally outmanouvered by the sharks like Green, Murray, Whyte or caught in the headlights when they get to rub shoulders with Leg ends like fat Sally so all they are ever able to do is look to the sharks for a lead and see if they can please them or further ingratiate themselves with the likes of McMoist.

Dongcaster and his like are much more suited to organising whist drives or manning the door at the bowling club but way, way over exposed here. I think we have a once in a lifetime opportunityto truly professionalise the bodies that run football and try to make it less OF dominated, reliant and subservient.

Hibs Class
04-07-2012, 08:35 PM
Doncaster and Roddy Forsyth were all over the radio this morning talking about the situation. It became apparent that Doncaster is strongly in favour of Rangers. He said Rangers had already been heavily fined, docked points etc.

Forsyth is of course a Hun so I'd expect nothing else but bluenose talk from him but I dispute his claim that a large number of Scottish fans would rather see their own team go under than have Rangers readmitted to the league. Where's his evidence?

Instead of bleating about how badly his favourites are being treated a degree of humility would be refreshing. If so many of us hate Rangers so much how about apologising for the shameful behaviour of the club and their cowardly loudmouth supporters over the last few decades?

The SFL guys yesterday were on Reporting Scotland after the meeting describing it as tense, difficult, etc. On the Today programme this morning Doncaster jovially described it as a good meeting. I know who I believe.

Dashing Bob S
04-07-2012, 08:59 PM
His latest comments make Doncaster seem an inspired visionary.

These muppets shame our game, our country, our citizens, and insult our intelligence.

To me the issue is now less about the status of a Newco Rangers, and more about the future, or hopefully lack of, people like he and Doncaster have in our game. If they continue to have a future in Scottish Football, then Scottish football has no future.

HibeeSince85
04-07-2012, 09:03 PM
Scottish Football has been ran into the ground, not only by these two, many others are also guilty but we're in some mess!

Bobby's Cinema
04-07-2012, 09:06 PM
They really do think we're all daft!

The latest from Doncaster http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18714518

"It's important to stress the easy decision would have been to say 'yes' and to allow the newco in and to protect commercial revenues.
"The clubs have not done that, they've decided to be bold and say 'no'." oh well give yourselves a pat on the back.
All he's done there is try to suggest that the clubs have already done the right thing, alluding to the fact he thinks they've done enough. I don't quite understand where they've got the headline.

Regan's latest I can't even put into words

delbert
04-07-2012, 09:10 PM
Scottish Football has been ran into the ground, not only by these two, many others are also guilty but we're in some mess!

We used to in the past castigate people like Ernie Walker and Jim Farry, but neither of these two guys would have put up with this shambles, Farry in particular was a superb administrator and at the very least would have taken a lead during goings on such as these. Doncaster and Regan are utter lightweights compared to both the guys I have mentioned and seem utterly out of their depth, no matter what the outcome of this mess, I believe we need a concerted campaign to get rid of these two idiots, it won't be the lack of Der Hun in the SPL which will kill Scottish football, but rather leaving twats such as these to run our game into the ground.

JimBHibees
04-07-2012, 09:14 PM
I am actually starting to think the comments by Regan and Doncaster are part of a carefully planned campaign to try and mitigate the backlash and fallout with the Hun being dropped down. They are if you think about it in many ways protecting the clubs with their ludicrous pro-Rangers comments. It has in many ways taken the heat off the clubs at this time which is likely to lead in the end with the right decisions being made. One down one to go.

lucky
04-07-2012, 09:16 PM
We used to in the past castigate people like Ernie Walker and Jim Farry, but neither of these two guys would have put up with this shambles, Farry in particular was a superb administrator and at the very least would have taken a lead during goings on such as these. Doncaster and Regan are utter lightweights compared to both the guys I have mentioned and seem utterly out of their depth, no matter what the outcome of this mess, I believe we need a concerted campaign to get rid of these two idiots, it won't be the lack of Der Hun in the SPL which will kill Scottish football, but rather leaving twats such as these to run our game into the ground.

Was about to post the same Farry and Walker would not have allowed this shameful saga to have dragged on

JohnStephens91
04-07-2012, 09:17 PM
Hopefully once Sevco are down and out the fans can turn their unequivocal focus on Doncaster to be booted out. Regan is second on the list, we need Doncaster out first, ideally you'd have the whole lot kicked out but by severing the head of the scandal we will make a major improvement.

lapsedhibee
04-07-2012, 09:20 PM
His latest comments make Doncaster seem an inspired visionary.

These muppets shame our game, our country, our citizens, and insult our intelligence.

To me the issue is now less about the status of a Newco Rangers, and more about the future, or hopefully lack of, people like he and Doncaster have in our game. If they continue to have a future in Scottish Football, then Scottish football has no future.

Many people have emerged from the last fortnight with whatever credibility they might have initially had shattered. Stewart Regan, Doncaster, Green and Traynor among them.

But two have had their credibility massively enhanced:
(1) Jack Regan, lesser green, who banged on forever about how the upper echelons of Scottish fitba were filled with corrupt hunloving barstewards. They are!
(2) Vlad McMad. Mowgli, mafia, monkey nuts, etc - oh how we scoffed, but was he wrong? Still madder than a box of mad things, but his rants about the SFA and that are looking much better with hindsight. I don't think any of us envisaged at the time he was berating the authorities on a regular basis that things would unfold as they have. I'd rather have him in charge than Stewart Regan and Donkey "Neil" Doncaster.

Waxy
04-07-2012, 09:36 PM
I'm lost for words to say about these two

PatHead
04-07-2012, 09:47 PM
Was about to post the same Farry and Walker would not have allowed this shameful saga to have dragged on

Don't kid yourself. Farry had to go for (getting caught) helping Rangers by withholding Cadette's registration for Celtic. God knows what he did without being caught. They are half the reason Scottish Football is in the mess it is now by allowing Old Firm, particularly Rangers away with murder. Remember how many years Celtic never drew Rangers in "behind the door" draws. That was the tip of the iceberg.

Eyrie
04-07-2012, 09:55 PM
Both have to go. Doncaster will be unemployed when the SPL and SFL merge anyway, assuming that the proposed reconstruction goes through. And the SFL clubs can kick up a real stink if that part of the deal is withdrawn.

Mon Dieu4
04-07-2012, 09:57 PM
Replace them with Bob Diamond, he seems more honest than them

Waxy
04-07-2012, 09:59 PM
Replace them with Bob Diamond, he seems more honest than themReplace them with anyone,anyone seems more honest than them.

jgl07
05-07-2012, 12:35 AM
Neil Doncaster SPL is an anagram for:

Lend Scrotal pe*is

cockneymike
05-07-2012, 02:13 AM
Both have to go. End of story.

Doncaster has been shown to be completely out of touch with the customers of the organisation he runs - how on earth is he meant to be able to sell any commercial contracts when he plainly has no idea of what the people the advertisers are trying to communicate with want.

The same goes for Regan, for exactly the same reasons. They plainly have lost sight of who makes their jobs possible, its not TV companies its the punters that pay for season tickets and subscriptions to Sky and ESPN.

For that matter Campbell Ogilvie should be punted as well, as he is obviously dodgy as, although I'd be surprised we'll ever find out how dodgy! Anyone that left the Huns to join MadVlad is obviously open to anything as long as the price is right.

I only wish that Petrie would come out and say, like Milne at Aberdeen has, that NewHun should start in SFL3. If he did, he comments about sporting integrity being beyond purchase wouldn't sound as hollow as they currently do. That said I do think his statement of last week saying that Hibs were keen to keep the Hun SPL acceptance vote for yesterday, and not let be delayed, shows that he and Doncaster disagreed on that one. That is something...

Malthibby
05-07-2012, 06:29 AM
Utterly stunned by Regan's comments. He has no place in Scottish football now, at least Doncaster is bright enough to have adjusted his position.
Regan sounds like a wee hurt laddie who can't believe his ball's been taken away, the SFA need to act & do something about him.
GG

Aldo
05-07-2012, 06:42 AM
Just read Regans comments .... Basically implying that if there is social unrest then the fault lies at the door of the SPL clubs..

What an arse. He's planted the seed anyway. Regardless of this or that they broke the rules and are being punished.

The way both Regan and Doncaster have acted show you exactly what's wrong with Scottish Football.... The OF.

Geo_1875
05-07-2012, 07:05 AM
They don't seem to understand the concept of competitive sport where teams try their best and results depend on things like skill and ability. Sure sometimes they'll get a bit of luck and a result will go their way but apparently these events even themselves out over a period of time. Sometimes even referees will make mistakes but again they will be even-handed and no team will benefit unfairly. Any team that contrived to gain an unfair, or even illegal, advantage will suffer the consequences of their actions in the full application of sanctions available.

To them it's all about producing a product that SKY deem suitable for broadcast. They should just form a television production company and give up all pretence of "Sport". They'd probably be able to employ all the usual suspects as script writers.

Hainan Hibs
05-07-2012, 07:29 AM
IMO if clubs are being run in such a way that they depend on other teams being in the league for TV money then the game and the clubs are not being run in the right way.

Doncaster and Reagan need to go, as said before all that concerns them is the SKY deal. We've all thought we knew about the corruption in the SFA, but to see it as blatant as it was in that article it still stuns you.

I'm hoping that the tighter financial climate may force clubs to stop spending over the odds on League 1esque rubbish and put much more focus on developing young players.

I think the fans need to keep the pressure up and add to it. This is the only chance we will get to make real change - fair financial distribution, league reconstruction, change to the voting system, play-off system and relegation/promotion from lowest league to non-league. If we let them off the hook now it's a message that they forever have us bent over a barrel and can do as they please.

ballengeich
05-07-2012, 07:46 AM
If Regan and Doncaster are worth their pay then now is the time for them to show it. They should be out marketing the new bigot-lite SPL to potential new sponsors, not just braying about the likely reduction in income from the existing ones.

Their public announcements have damaged the Scottish game imo. While delivering warnings about adverse financial consequences is legitimate and in fact necessary in private meetings with clubs, executives of any organisation have to be careful about the image they project in their contacts with the media.

There are substantial financial challenges for Scottish football in the next few years. I've no confidence in the ability of these two to bring the best possible results.

DevonLoch
05-07-2012, 07:47 AM
Link to original latest scaremongering statement from Regan

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9376852/Rangers-in-crisis-Stewart-Regan-warns-of-social-unrest-if-Ibrox-fans-have-no-club-to-support-next-season.html#

Plus the best comment on the situation so far....

"While the social unrest comment makes the best headlines, the real story here is the threat by the head of Scottish Football to force the SFL to take Rangers into their top tier any which way he can - by the imposition of an SPL2 or any other way he can manage.
The total lack of integrity, of respect for the SFL clubs and their fans and vision for a future model for Scottish football that moves away from the business model which has led us to this farce suggests that Mr Regan is not the person that Scottish Football needs to lead it at this time, when opportunities for constructive change have to be seized.
Leadership is not about threats, bluster, bald and uncorroborated assertions or hyperbolic warnings of armageddon. It requires inspiration and the ability to carry people along with you. Mr Regan has failed miserably to show any hints of those qualities".

Even the Rangers/Newco/Sevco fans are happier to take a place in Division 3

http://www.followfollow.com/news/tmnw/season_ticketholders_poll_result__75_prefer_divisi on_3_option_748640/index.shtml


Scottish football has an opportunity to change for the better. The current management are not willing/able to see that and don't have the skills/support to do so. They must go!

s.a.m
05-07-2012, 07:48 AM
If Regan and Doncaster are worth their pay then now is the time for them to show it. They should be out marketing the new bigot-lite SPL to potential new sponsors, not just braying about the likely reduction in income from the existing ones.

Their public announcements have damaged the Scottish game imo. While delivering warnings about adverse financial consequences is legitimate and in fact necessary in private meetings with clubs, executives of any organisation have to be careful about the image they project in their contacts with the media.

There are substantial financial challenges for Scottish football in the next few years. I've no confidence in the ability of these two to bring the best possible results.

:agree:

steakbake
05-07-2012, 07:49 AM
Basically, once this mess is sorted either way, they should go and the governance of the game should be restructured.

Alex Thomson's view that we wouldn't be in this position if they'd followed their existing rules is on the money.

alexedwards
05-07-2012, 08:41 AM
The question that always raises it's head in this fiasco - is who are Doncaster/Regan acting for?
And why are they running about like Abbott & Costello so desperately to have Rangers in SFL1 or SPL2 against the wishes of almost everyone?
There has to a massive motive - money is usually the culprit.
So what is the desperation?


Neil Doncaster presided over the signing of commercial contract's with a get-out clause for the partner's stipulating -
"If Rangers or Celtic leave the SPL the agreement is terminated."


What it should have said.........
"If Rangers or Celtic VOLUNTARILY leave the SPL the agreement is terminated."


This is the financial meltdown - caused by Doncaster's incompetence - he is to blame - it his fault for missing what is a standard item. Either of these clubs could leave the SPL if they were relegated and he didn't spot it. Now he's running about trying to save his own career and he has everyone in Scottish football up in arms. Crikey! Even 75% of Rangers fans accept they have to go to Div 3 and still we talk
of forcing leagues; every fan spending time and emotion to block this; clubs wasting time; clubs being threatened; talk of social unrest, and all to save one man's career.
He blew it - he missed out one word - voluntarily. Boot him - we need a competent CE who won't bring financial meltdown upon us.
Regan has also bought into this and shown himself incompetent as a CE - boot him too.
All of this because of one man's inability to do his job is the only thing that make's sense in why a continual railroading is on the agenda.

alexedwards
05-07-2012, 08:48 AM
Posted on other thread's....but may be deserving of it's own!

The question that always raises it's head in this fiasco - is who are Doncaster/Regan acting for?
And why are they running about like Abbott & Costello so desperately to have Rangers in SFL1 or SPL2 against the wishes of almost everyone?
There has to a massive motive - money is usually the culprit.
So what is the desperation?


Neil Doncaster presided over the signing of commercial contract's with a get-out clause for the partner's stipulating -
"If Rangers or Celtic leave the SPL the agreement is terminated."


What it should have said.........
"If Rangers or Celtic VOLUNTARILY leave the SPL the agreement is terminated."


This is the financial meltdown - caused by Doncaster's incompetence - he is to blame - it his fault for missing what is a standard item. Either of these clubs could leave the SPL if they were relegated and he didn't spot it. Now he's running about trying to save his own career and he has everyone in Scottish football up in arms. Crikey! Even 75% of Rangers fans accept they have to go to Div 3 and still we talk
of forcing leagues; every fan spending time and emotion to block this; clubs wasting time; clubs being threatened; talk of social unrest, and all to save one man's career.
He blew it - he missed out one word - voluntarily. Boot him - we need a competent CE who won't bring financial meltdown upon us.
Regan has also bought into this and shown himself incompetent as a CE -boot him too.
All of this because of one man's inability to do his job is the only thing that make's sense in why a continual railroading is on the agenda.

InchHibby
05-07-2012, 09:04 AM
Doncaster and Regan and all those other Newco campaigners are missing the point.
Their missing the point because Scottish Football is already dead, a laughing stock not only in Britain but Europe also.
Can't they see that for years if not decades the Clubs/Supporters out with the OF have prayed for a day such as this.
A day when eventually we have a chance for change, a day when we can maybe start a Season on an even keel, a day when we receive a fair percentage of the finances on offer, a day when, if required, we can fairly vote on change.
Cant they see that at present it's practically impossible, if not impossible other than the OF to win the League.
Surely they must see this and if they think that's acceptable year in year out, then no wonder were in the state were in.
Don't they realise that the majority of decent supporters are not trying to crucify Rangers just because they are Rangers, but mainly for the reason that at last this gives the rest of us a great chance to really mount a challenge to the OF.
And don't they see that more than two Clubs competing for the title will not only change things within Scottish Football it will also make people sit up and notice that we can be more than a two Club League.
And surely they must see that a more competitive SPL will generate more finances than at the present time.
I can only think that the main reason for their sustained campaign of threats and intimidation is based on fear.
Fear of what, fear that any other Club may reach the dizzy heights of actually having the audacity to challenge them.
The Old Firm have said for years they would welcome a challenge from other Clubs, but they know that the systems that are in place at present, systems they themselves have assisted in creating, makes that scenario not practically impossible, just impossible.
So I say to both Doncaster and Regan, wake up and smell the coffee before you yourselves are replaced and miss out on the fair and most necessary revolution that is about to take over Scottish Football.

Bighoose
05-07-2012, 09:06 AM
No chance of civil unrest then if the club that stole £50M to £75M from the tax payers get off scot free? Or it is we are more civilised?

And what do the Rangers fans think of these comments? He's saying that they are so neandethal that if they cant go to a game they would riot instead

Regan = tube

Doncaster is just way, way out of his depth. A middle management pen pusher. Bet he has his cycling profficiency certificate framed on the wall behind his desk along with his 25m swimming one. And probably has those wee crappy desk games neatly arrnaged on his desk also.

Simon70
05-07-2012, 09:10 AM
Posted on other thread's....but may be deserving of it's own!

The question that always raises it's head in this fiasco - is who are Doncaster/Regan acting for?
And why are they running about like Abbott & Costello so desperately to have Rangers in SFL1 or SPL2 against the wishes of almost everyone?
There has to a massive motive - money is usually the culprit.
So what is the desperation?


Neil Doncaster presided over the signing of commercial contract's with a get-out clause for the partner's stipulating -
"If Rangers or Celtic leave the SPL the agreement is terminated."


What it should have said.........
"If Rangers or Celtic VOLUNTARILY leave the SPL the agreement is terminated."


This is the financial meltdown - caused by Doncaster's incompetence - he is to blame - it his fault for missing what is a standard item. Either of these clubs could leave the SPL if they were relegated and he didn't spot it. Now he's running about trying to save his own career and he has everyone in Scottish football up in arms. Crikey! Even 75% of Rangers fans accept they have to go to Div 3 and still we talk
of forcing leagues; every fan spending time and emotion to block this; clubs wasting time; clubs being threatened; talk of social unrest, and all to save one man's career.
He blew it - he missed out one word - voluntarily. Boot him - we need a competent CE who won't bring financial meltdown upon us.
Regan has also bought into this and shown himself incompetent as a CE -boot him too.
All of this because of one man's inability to do his job is the only thing that make's sense in why a continual railroading is on the agenda.

What he said :thumbsup:

DCI Gene Hunt
05-07-2012, 09:14 AM
The people in charge of our game need to be completely impartial, fair and know their rule books. Doncaster and Regan are neither, and are both outwardly and unashamedly subservient to the Old Firm.

For that reason alone both have to go immediately, corruption has corroded our game, the rot needs to be stopped by lancing the whole boil. That means both being hoofed now.

Gene

Saorsa
05-07-2012, 09:15 AM
The Old Firm have said for years they would welcome a challenge from other ClubsWhich is of course bollocks. Lack of a challenge is little mair than a convenient excuse for them when they get papped out of Europe because they're no as good as they think they are. They want/ed nae challenge and anybody who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves on.

goosefat
05-07-2012, 09:19 AM
"Their missing the point."

They're missing the point.

But you do make a good point...

Joe Baker II
05-07-2012, 09:29 AM
And what do the Rangers fans think of these comments? He's saying that they are so neandethal that if they cant go to a game they would riot instead

.

Agree with rest of your post, but to be fair to Regan some previous posts on hibs.net suggest this perception (idiotic as hs comment was despite Manchester in 2008) is not limited to him.

Totally agree about them wanting to protect flawed TV deal above all else. And from articles this morning seems far from certain TV will put out even if Rangers are in 4th tier - Sky are well used to covering games at smaller grounds and I would bet Rangers v Peterhead would pull slightly more TV viewers than a game such as Hibs v Motherwell.

lord bunberry
05-07-2012, 09:32 AM
Posted on other thread's....but may be deserving of it's own!

The question that always raises it's head in this fiasco - is who are Doncaster/Regan acting for?
And why are they running about like Abbott & Costello so desperately to have Rangers in SFL1 or SPL2 against the wishes of almost everyone?
There has to a massive motive - money is usually the culprit.
So what is the desperation?


Neil Doncaster presided over the signing of commercial contract's with a get-out clause for the partner's stipulating -
"If Rangers or Celtic leave the SPL the agreement is terminated."


What it should have said.........
"If Rangers or Celtic VOLUNTARILY leave the SPL the agreement is terminated."


This is the financial meltdown - caused by Doncaster's incompetence - he is to blame - it his fault for missing what is a standard item. Either of these clubs could leave the SPL if they were relegated and he didn't spot it. Now he's running about trying to save his own career and he has everyone in Scottish football up in arms. Crikey! Even 75% of Rangers fans accept they have to go to Div 3 and still we talk
of forcing leagues; every fan spending time and emotion to block this; clubs wasting time; clubs being threatened; talk of social unrest, and all to save one man's career.
He blew it - he missed out one word - voluntarily. Boot him - we need a competent CE who won't bring financial meltdown upon us.
Regan has also bought into this and shown himself incompetent as a CE -boot him too.
All of this because of one man's inability to do his job is the only thing that make's sense in why a continual railroading is on the agenda.

I find it hard to believe that doncaster is acting alone he is paid to represent the spl clubs so whatever he is doing must be what the majority of spl clubs want if this wasn't the case he would have been told to keep his mouth shut. The uncomfortable truth here is that the spl clubs must want rangers to be in division 1 and that may well include hibs and doncaster is only carrying out there wishes. Apart from aberdeen I've not heard another spl club say they want rangers to start in division 3 they have all hidden behind the sporting integrity line and the its not our decision anymore line while seemingly threatening the sfl at the same time. In my opinion doncaster is just a puppet

DanHFC1875
05-07-2012, 09:33 AM
Doncaster as a shameless ersehole... The spl should be kicked into touch.. We need one body for all leagues.

yeezus.
05-07-2012, 09:33 AM
Doncaster and Regan and all those other Newco campaigners are missing the point.
Their missing the point because Scottish Football is already dead, a laughing stock not only in Britain but Europe also.
Can't they see that for years if not decades the Clubs/Supporters out with the OF have prayed for a day such as this.
A day when eventually we have a chance for change, a day when we can maybe start a Season on an even keel, a day when we receive a fair percentage of the finances on offer, a day when, if required, we can fairly vote on change.
Cant they see that at present it's practically impossible, if not impossible other than the OF to win the League.
Surely they must see this and if they think that's acceptable year in year out, then no wonder were in the state were in.
Don't they realise that the majority of decent supporters are not trying to crucify Rangers just because they are Rangers, but mainly for the reason that at last this gives the rest of us a great chance to really mount a challenge to the OF.
And don't they see that more than two Clubs competing for the title will not only change things within Scottish Football it will also make people sit up and notice that we can be more than a two Club League.
And surely they must see that a more competitive SPL will generate more finances than at the present time.
I can only think that the main reason for their sustained campaign of threats and intimidation is based on fear.
Fear of what, fear that any other Club may reach the dizzy heights of actually having the audacity to challenge them.
The Old Firm have said for years they would welcome a challenge from other Clubs, but they know that the systems that are in place at present, systems they themselves have assisted in creating, makes that scenario not practically impossible, just impossible.
So I say to both Doncaster and Regan, wake up and smell the coffee before you yourselves are replaced and miss out on the fair and most necessary revolution that is about to take over Scottish Football.

I love Scottish football but I've been getting told for years that it is dead and a laughing stock - partly because of the OF dominance. I think last years BBC Scotland report on both Celtic and Rangers failing to get into Europe while Shamrock Rovers did made this clear.. It can't get any worse.

alexedwards
05-07-2012, 09:46 AM
I find it hard to believe that doncaster is acting alone he is paid to represent the spl clubs so whatever he is doing must be what the majority of spl clubs want if this wasn't the case he would have been told to keep his mouth shut. The uncomfortable truth here is that the spl clubs must want rangers to be in division 1 and that may well include hibs and doncaster is only carrying out there wishes. Apart from aberdeen I've not heard another spl club say they want rangers to start in division 3 they have all hidden behind the sporting integrity line and the its not our decision anymore line while seemingly threatening the sfl at the same time. In my opinion doncaster is just a puppet


No SPL club has said they want Newco to start in SFL1. What RP said was let the SFL decide - no railroading there.
Doncaster is doing the devil's work here - he is carrying out the crimes along with Regan, Ogilivie (unbelievably still around), Topping (whose silence is deafening) and Longmuir's actions appear to have been to threaten his own clubs and fix Scottish
Football League 1st Division for next season.
I seriously find it hard to believe the above is what the SPL/SFL member clubs want from their leaders - they are acting like desperados and flapping all over the place - it just doesn't sit right.

mjhibby
05-07-2012, 10:08 AM
Just read Regans comments .... Basically implying that if there is social unrest then the fault lies at the door of the SPL clubs..

What an arse. He's planted the seed anyway. Regardless of this or that they broke the rules and are being punished.

The way both Regan and Doncaster have acted show you exactly what's wrong with Scottish Football.... The OF.

Is he saying we should give in to the knuckledusters as they might cause social unrest if they dont get their own way.It is utterly shameful the pressure that is being put on the sfl chairman and the consequences of newco going into div 3 should have no bearing on the vote.the vote should be based on the one procedure that is laid out for the sfl and that is that any team applying to the sfl starts at div 3.No special cases or ifs and buts.Its been their for years and for regan to then say they should be put into div 1 when it is absolutely none of his business is an utter disgrace and he should go end of.
I do actually see where traynor is coming from in that he said all along newco should be in div 3 but now the financial aspects are there for all to see a judgement call must be made.But the ovveriding issue is that of the credibility of our game(which is surely near rock bottom now after this saga) and should they get into div 1 there will be none at all as we will have engineered a situation that go against all sense of fair play and it will lead to thousands either not attending or going to watch epl games instead.
One point regan hasnt touched on is that presouness when mickey weir and colin harris were scoring in front of 10,000 at ibrox is that newco is so weakened that we cannot assume in any way that they will be getting 40,000 crowds when there is no europe for 3 years and no prospect of the spl title for many tears.Nobody can predict what newcos crowds will be so any loss to the spl and sfl has to be based on guesswork.Also the loss of rangers in money has been way overegged as it is only every second season that other spl teams who finish in the bottom six get rangers twice at home.I may be wrong but i think the next season we would have had newco only once at er before the split as the loss would have been half as much as expected say that we finished 7th next season.Also there is a good chance that newco will end up in administration again so there loss to the scottish game will be further lessened.
The whole saga has gone beyond farce and surely the police must speak to regan about his comments as if any ordinary citizen had said that on the internet im sure the police would be taking an interest.Why were the figures not mentioned that scottish football might lose months ago or regans comments about social unrest also made months ago.The reason is that newco,the glasgow media and regan have been totally outflanked by the fans and then by the clubs and they are now resorting to scaremongering based on guesswork to force the sfl to get newco into div 1.Traynor admitted as much last night on sportsound and now we are left with putting them in div 3 and the likes of regan and traynor predicting the end is nigh or they go into div 1 and the deep divisions this saga has caused ****** indefinetely.It can only be div 3 and lets see what the future brings.The only winners out of this are celtic who are guaranteed a crack at the champions league for the next few seasons although given our coefficient beating the likes of valencia to get there seems a tall order.
There has to be a decisive vote by the sfl as this cant be delayed any longer.When or when are we actually going to get round to talking about the new season and the excitement that may bring.Not for a few weeks i fear and who can rule out legal challenges as well.Scottish football,dont you just love it.

goosefat
05-07-2012, 10:09 AM
I love Scottish football but I've been getting told for years that it is dead and a laughing stock - partly because of the OF dominance. I think last years BBC Scotland report on both Celtic and Rangers failing to get into Europe while Shamrock Rovers did made this clear.. It can't get any worse.

Like any league in any country, the SPL is what it is. The quality on offer doesn't stop me going to the games. Win, loose or draw I enjoy my day out at ER. There's no doubt that Scottish Football has serious problems. The SPL is not the best league in the World, nor is it the worst. Of course, particularly now, we need to get our house in order but it will work itself out one way or another and fans (maybe less, maybe more) will still go to games. Right now we're going through a much needed re-adjustment period, but it will pass.

Rangers debacle aside, I also think that if we didn't have the EPL right on our doorstep there wouldn't be so many people comparing it with the SPL. You simply can't compare the two - they're not like for like. Remember, there were plenty players that crossed the border to play for Rangers & Celtic (and other clubs for that matter) before the EPL was formed and, until the EPL was pumped with cash “foie gras” style by Sky, the two leagues were really not so far apart.

The fact of the matter is, there are far too many teams in Scottish Football for the size of the nation. In reality we should just cull teams, amalgamate some, trim the leagues, get rid of the unsustainable deadwood and start afresh with a leaner set of just 2 leagues. Of course, that will never happen...

alexedwards
05-07-2012, 10:14 AM
I find it hard to believe that doncaster is acting alone he is paid to represent the spl clubs so whatever he is doing must be what the majority of spl clubs want if this wasn't the case he would have been told to keep his mouth shut. The uncomfortable truth here is that the spl clubs must want rangers to be in division 1 and that may well include hibs and doncaster is only carrying out there wishes. Apart from aberdeen I've not heard another spl club say they want rangers to start in division 3 they have all hidden behind the sporting integrity line and the its not our decision anymore line while seemingly threatening the sfl at the same time. In my opinion doncaster is just a puppet


Also why would Doncaster/Regan convince Green to apply for an SPL place only for it be rejected 10-1 if they were acting on behalf of SPL member clubs.?

Doncaster/Regan appear to have certain powers to act on their own and then bring the case before their respective boards as opposed to the other way around - so they are pushing their own agenda first.

MB62
05-07-2012, 10:27 AM
Listening to various news report on T.V. last night, everyone kept referring to 'rangers' playing in either Div 1 or Div 3.

Two points to make here

1- 'Rangers' are dead and all but buried, just waiting on the liquidators moving in, there will be NO RANGERS very soon.

2- SEVCO 20588 or whoever will have to APPLY to join one of the divisions, they do not have any given right to play in the SFL. In fact, they should NOT be playing in the SFL as they DO NOT qualify to enter the leagues as they do not have three years audited accounts. To allow them to play would be breaking SFL rules.

Scottish football can come out of this so much stronger than we have been in decades. Yes, there will be a financial hit both short and medium term but long term getting rid of old Rangers and not allowing Sevco entry in to our leagues will see not only see a more competitive and evenly matched league set up, it will rid us of the sectarian bile that is inflicted upon us each week. In years to come, maybe a couple of generations away, bairns will still want to watch fitba and hopefully they will watch their local teams rather than jump on buses all over Scotland and head West.

Kick them out for good and breath new life into Scottish football AND Scotland.

NO DIV 1 or DIV 3 SEVCOGTF

lord bunberry
05-07-2012, 10:44 AM
I agree they have certain powers but surely they acted way beyond their remit. Reagan and doncaster are paid employees and are there to represent their respective members if they were making statements that didn't reflect the wishes of their members they would have been slapped down before now. Remember Reagan said today the division 1 for newco was the only show in town doncaster has said much the same if the clubs don't agree with that then they should come out and say so

Killiehibbie
05-07-2012, 10:57 AM
Listening to various news report on T.V. last night, everyone kept referring to 'rangers' playing in either Div 1 or Div 3.

Two points to make here

1- 'Rangers' are dead and all but buried, just waiting on the liquidators moving in, there will be NO RANGERS very soon.

2- SEVCO 20588 or whoever will have to APPLY to join one of the divisions, they do not have any given right to play in the SFL. In fact, they should NOT be playing in the SFL as they DO NOT qualify to enter the leagues as they do not have three years audited accounts. To allow them to play would be breaking SFL rules.

Scottish football can come out of this so much stronger than we have been in decades. Yes, there will be a financial hit both short and medium term but long term getting rid of old Rangers and not allowing Sevco entry in to our leagues will see not only see a more competitive and evenly matched league set up, it will rid us of the sectarian bile that is inflicted upon us each week. In years to come, maybe a couple of generations away, bairns will still want to watch fitba and hopefully they will watch their local teams rather than jump on buses all over Scotland and head West.

Kick them out for good and breath new life into Scottish football AND Scotland.

NO DIV 1 or DIV 3 SEVCOGTFMuch the same point was made last night on Realradio. The caller also added that Rangers would've been off to patures new if given the chance. It turns out we need them in the top league because if they'd left Celtic would've been leaving with them but a one horse race for the title will kill the game completely and anybody who wants Rangers, or whatever they call themsleves, treated the same as any other new club is vindictive. Hopefully Celtic go the same way soon.

jethart hibee
05-07-2012, 11:11 AM
Listening to various news report on T.V. last night, everyone kept referring to 'rangers' playing in either Div 1 or Div 3.

Two points to make here

1- 'Rangers' are dead and all but buried, just waiting on the liquidators moving in, there will be NO RANGERS very soon.

2- SEVCO 20588 or whoever will have to APPLY to join one of the divisions, they do not have any given right to play in the SFL. In fact, they should NOT be playing in the SFL as they DO NOT qualify to enter the leagues as they do not have three years audited accounts. To allow them to play would be breaking SFL rules.

Scottish football can come out of this so much stronger than we have been in decades. Yes, there will be a financial hit both short and medium term but long term getting rid of old Rangers and not allowing Sevco entry in to our leagues will see not only see a more competitive and evenly matched league set up, it will rid us of the sectarian bile that is inflicted upon us each week. In years to come, maybe a couple of generations away, bairns will still want to watch fitba and hopefully they will watch their local teams rather than jump on buses all over Scotland and head West.

Kick them out for good and breath new life into Scottish football AND Scotland.

NO DIV 1 or DIV 3 SEVCOGTF:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
yes bring on the SPARTANS !!!:flag:

jgl07
05-07-2012, 11:28 AM
Whenever I see the name Doncaster, I can't help thinking of the Earl of Doncaster from the first series of Blackadder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpQYmtsUTNk

yeezus.
05-07-2012, 11:34 AM
Like any league in any country, the SPL is what it is. The quality on offer doesn't stop me going to the games. Win, loose or draw I enjoy my day out at ER. There's no doubt that Scottish Football has serious problems. The SPL is not the best league in the World, nor is it the worst. Of course, particularly now, we need to get our house in order but it will work itself out one way or another and fans (maybe less, maybe more) will still go to games. Right now we're going through a much needed re-adjustment period, but it will pass.

Rangers debacle aside, I also think that if we didn't have the EPL right on our doorstep there wouldn't be so many people comparing it with the SPL. You simply can't compare the two - they're not like for like. Remember, there were plenty players that crossed the border to play for Rangers & Celtic (and other clubs for that matter) before the EPL was formed and, until the EPL was pumped with cash “foie gras” style by Sky, the two leagues were really not so far apart.

The fact of the matter is, there are far too many teams in Scottish Football for the size of the nation. In reality we should just cull teams, amalgamate some, trim the leagues, get rid of the unsustainable deadwood and start afresh with a leaner set of just 2 leagues. Of course, that will never happen...



Well said, I managed to get to 10 or 11 games last season - we all know the quality of football wasn't great but I'd still rather watch Hibs than any other English side.

alexedwards
05-07-2012, 11:51 AM
I agree they have certain powers but surely they acted way beyond their remit. Reagan and doncaster are paid employees and are there to represent their respective members if they were making statements that didn't reflect the wishes of their members they would have been slapped down before now. Remember Reagan said today the division 1 for newco was the only show in town doncaster has said much the same if the clubs don't agree with that then they should come out and say so

They have acted beyond their remit and should be slapped down but it isn't not happening.
Also think Ralph Topping's absence as CM of the SPL is an absolute disgrace. F
For a man who hold's down such a position to be absolutely 100% posted missing is
incredible.
What is clear is that the slapping down is not being done by anyone - there is no
accountability being applied.
Ogilivie who is President of the SFA and biased anyway appears to be pulling Regan's strings
so no accountability there either. They are currently getting away with this behaviour.

superfurryhibby
05-07-2012, 11:53 AM
There is a hell of a lot of scaremongering going on in the media as to the implications for Scottish football. No matter what happens the game will continue, we will just have to cut our cloth accordingly. We managed before Tv money and we will manage after it. Good points made by others over comparison with EPL etc. Surely the fair comparison would be with other countries of a similar size and with similar finances in the leagues?

Personally, I would like to much less of the foreign journeyman type of recruitment that has typified the past decade or more. Christ, even the lower leagues are full of these types. I don't believe that we produce that fewer footballers than we did in the past, perhaps the young Scottish guys just never really get a fair crack at it anymore?

League reconstruction would help. There are too many teams. Not saying that I recommend wiping out the local football history, just that we should look to have two professional divisions with regional leagues below that for teams who aspire to national level. Places like Fife, Tayside & Angus and the Central belt cannot support four professional teams on the crowds they get, clearly ridiculous.

We have an excellent opportunity for radical change in Scottish football. Clubs should work together to ensure that the issues that support the return of the duopoly are diminished and that the status quo cannot be restored.

CropleyWasGod
05-07-2012, 11:58 AM
They have acted beyond their remit and should be slapped down but it isn't not happening.
Also think Ralph Topping's absence as CM of the SPL is an absolute disgrace. F
For a man who hold's down such a position to be absolutely 100% posted missing is
incredible.
What is clear is that the slapping down is not being done by anyone - there is no
accountability being applied.
Ogilivie who is President of the SFA and biased anyway appears to be pulling Regan's strings
so no accountability there either. They are currently getting away with this behaviour.

Is it possible that Topping is ill? He stood down from his SFA post due to pressure of work. His last blog entry on his own website was in March.

Franck is God
05-07-2012, 11:58 AM
Unfortunately we will have to put up with another week of Regan and Doncaster doing their best to scare the SFL sides into voting the newco into the first division in the same way as they did to try and get the SPL teams onside, that worked well didn't it....

Hopefully the SFL teams will see these threats for what they are and simply vote with competition and integrity in mind, it is simply an application from a new football team to join the league and nothing more.

If they are so concerned with the effect it will have on Scottish football I say they have a year to put together a solution to fix it. The event we have just seen happen to Rangers could have happened to any of us and should be seen as the kick in the arse that has been long over due to actually do something about it.

We are too small a country to have 42 senior sides over four leagues, I think from next summer onwards we should have only two senior leagues in Scotland, SPL1 & SPL2 and both should have 18 teams, below that there should be a regional league system. All of this should be run by the SFA so that for a change they actually have to do something for their money.

--------
05-07-2012, 12:30 PM
Was about to post the same Farry and Walker would not have allowed this shameful saga to have dragged on


Don't kid yourself. Farry had to go for (getting caught) helping Rangers by withholding Cadette's registration for Celtic. God knows what he did without being caught. They are half the reason Scottish Football is in the mess it is now by allowing Old Firm, particularly Rangers away with murder. Remember how many years Celtic never drew Rangers in "behind the door" draws. That was the tip of the iceberg.


Indeed. Scottish football has always had corrupt and devious administrators running it. No one with any sesne trusted either Farry or Walker as far as they could throw them.

And among other things, Ernie Walker was the man who organised a game for Scotland in 1977 in Chile's Estadio Nacional. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty certain that this was the first time a European side had played there since the Pinochet coup of 11th September 1973 that overthrew the government of Salvador Allende. The stadium had been used as a prison camp, torture centre and exectution site by the Pinochet junta to kill Allende supporters and other opponents of the junta. It allegedly held up to 7,000 prisoners at the time; no one knows what the total number of peole held there, tortured there, and executed there is.

In 1974 the Soviet Union was drawn to play Chile there in a World Cup qualifier. they refused, and the Chilean kicked off without opposition, walked the ball into the "Soviet" net, then claimed the game by default. They played in West Germany but went out in the group stages.

"Football statesman" Ernie Walker was the man who made sure that Ally McLeod's Scotland played a pre-tournament friendly in a concentratoin camp where thousands of people had been tortured and murdered. Nice one. Our next match was a friendly against Argentina in Buenas Aires. Ernie was really friendly with murderous South American generals.

IMO we only got what we deserved the following year in Argentina.

lord bunberry
05-07-2012, 12:31 PM
They have acted beyond their remit and should be slapped down but it isn't not happening.
Also think Ralph Topping's absence as CM of the SPL is an absolute disgrace. F
For a man who hold's down such a position to be absolutely 100% posted missing is
incredible.
What is clear is that the slapping down is not being done by anyone - there is no
accountability being applied.
Ogilivie who is President of the SFA and biased anyway appears to be pulling Regan's strings
so no accountability there either. They are currently getting away with this behaviour.


The result of which leaves us to draw one of two conclusions either doncaster and Reagan are now acting against their members wishes or they are simply mouthpieces for their respective organizations. The fact that they both attended the sfl meeting the other day to paint the end of the world scenario seems to suggest the latter

alexedwards
05-07-2012, 01:16 PM
Is it possible that Topping is ill? He stood down from his SFA post due to pressure of work. His last blog entry on his own website was in March.


No wonder he is ill but FFS in a time of crisis pull in a strong temporary CM.
If Topping is ill the SPL need to place an interim CM into the SPL for Doncaster to be accountable to or else he is running the show and could be self-will run riot.
But Regan's accountability to Ogilvie is non-existent as Ogilivie is pulling the strings. Between the SFA power-brokers it's a case of do as we like.

alexedwards
05-07-2012, 01:18 PM
Still think Doncaster/Regan are runaway trains with no clear accountability or remit.
It would not make sense that they brought Green back to the table to be out-voted 10-1 and then for
Doncaster to say he is "surprised" at the vote.
Maybe they are hanging him out to dry?

JimBHibees
05-07-2012, 01:31 PM
Still think Doncaster/Regan are runaway trains with no clear accountability or remit.
It would not make sense that they brought Green back to the table to be out-voted 10-1 and then for
Doncaster to say he is "surprised" at the vote.
Maybe they are hanging him out to dry?

I think that is it to be honest. No SPL chairman have apparently contradicted whatever both Regan and Doncaster have said. They are playing a role that is IMO to take the heat off the other clubs as the Chairman of the clubs wouldnt get away with what Regan and Doncaster have said.

Baldy Foghorn
05-07-2012, 01:47 PM
I think that is it to be honest. No SPL chairman have apparently contradicted whatever both Regan and Doncaster have said. They are playing a role that is IMO to take the heat off the other clubs as the Chairman of the clubs wouldnt get away with what Regan and Doncaster have said.

I'm not so sure Jim, I think Doncaster and Regan's comments are further damaging the game in Scotland, and the SPL chairmen must be cognisant of that....Time for these jokers to be removed from their positions.....New face of football in Scotland, new men in charge IMO

JimBHibees
05-07-2012, 01:56 PM
I'm not so sure Jim, I think Doncaster and Regan's comments are further damaging the game in Scotland, and the SPL chairmen must be cognisant of that....Time for these jokers to be removed from their positions.....New face of football in Scotland, new men in charge IMO

There is no doubt their comments are damaging Scottish football however I think they are being put up as fall guys to try and bring some of the changes that particularly the SPL wants to bulldoze through. There definitely needs to be a fresh approach to the game and to be honest the other SPL teams are now in a tremendous position to vote through some of the changes they have longed for. Whether they take the opportunity is another thing however the chance is now there for change.

calmac12000
05-07-2012, 02:09 PM
I think the futures of both men are best summed up thus:

* "YOU HAVE BEEN SAT TO LONG HERE FOR ANY GOOD YOU HAVE BEEN DOING. DEPART, I SAY, AND LET US HAVE DONE WITH YOU. IN THE NAME OF GOD, GO!."

Cromwell Addressing the Rump Parliament. April 1653.

And just keeping with the civil war them old Oliver obviously had experience of Reagan and Doncaster's maladministration:

* "WEEDS AND NETTLES, BRIARS AND THORNS, HAVE THRIVEN UNDER YOUR SHADOW, DISSETTLEMENT AND DIVISION, DISCONTENTMENT AND DISSATISFACTION, TOGETHER WITH REAL DANGERS TO THE WHOLE."

Cromwell’s speech dissolving the 1st Protectoral Parliament.:angeldevi

Geo_1875
05-07-2012, 03:19 PM
I think the futures of both men are best summed up thus:

* "YOU HAVE BEEN SAT TO LONG HERE FOR ANY GOOD YOU HAVE BEEN DOING. DEPART, I SAY, AND LET US HAVE DONE WITH YOU. IN THE NAME OF GOD, GO!."

Cromwell Addressing the Rump Parliament. April 1653.

And just keeping with the civil war them old Oliver obviously had experience of Reagan and Doncaster's maladministration:

* "WEEDS AND NETTLES, BRIARS AND THORNS, HAVE THRIVEN UNDER YOUR SHADOW, DISSETTLEMENT AND DIVISION, DISCONTENTMENT AND DISSATISFACTION, TOGETHER WITH REAL DANGERS TO THE WHOLE."

Cromwell’s speech dissolving the 1st Protectoral Parliament.:angeldevi


But we know which side Cromwell would have been on.

Bishop Hibee
05-07-2012, 03:43 PM
"Social unrest" :faf::crazy:. For that comment alone Regan should be given the boot along with Campbell Ogilvie, another who has been living off the Scottish football gravy train for too long.

Doncaster seems to be out of control and totally at odds with his paymasters, the SPL clubs. Order of the boot for him.

Clear out theses administrators, lets have one governing body and remould Scottish football for a positive future :agree:

Dashing Bob S
05-07-2012, 04:00 PM
"Social unrest" :faf::crazy:. For that comment alone Regan should be given the boot along with Campbell Ogilvie, another who has been living off the Scottish football gravy train for too long.

Doncaster seems to be out of control and totally at odds with his paymasters, the SPL clubs. Order of the boot for him.

Clear out theses administrators, lets have one governing body and remould Scottish football for a positive future :agree:

Regan now saying that 'social unrest' and 'dire economic circumstances' would only take place in the event of Rangers not existing. Who are those idiots trying to kid? To the very death, they insist upon playing this sad game and pandering to a bigoted minority in Scottish society in their quest to drive decent supporters from the game.

So years of sectarian abuse, street and domestic violence occasioned by the presence of that vile institution doesn't count as 'social unrest'? Well, Stuart, it would in any sane country, in a sport ran by principled people, instead of jackasses like yourself.

The very best thing that could could happen for Scottish football and society in terms of 'social unrest' or any other desirable criteria, is for Rangers not to exist in any way, shape or form.

Hibiza
05-07-2012, 04:21 PM
Ship them . Professional meeting arrangers and freeloaders.

blackpoolhibs
05-07-2012, 04:34 PM
I have been panic buying bread milk and fruit pastilles, i have padlocked the doors, boarded up the windows and keeping my head down until this is over. I have watched 28 weeks, and 28 weeks later, this could be worse. :paranoid::panic::panic:

Lungo--Drom
05-07-2012, 04:46 PM
Does that mean he had step off the good foot and do the bad thing with a very pickled and very past it Delia Smith in order to get his job with the the Canaries? :O To answer the OP, simply because of the things they have both said in public statements they both must go. Corrupt or incompetent or both, the way things are going at the moment they could both be in Wikipedia in a year or so down the line in the article titled, "The decline of Scottish professional football." ****s the pair of them.


Doncaster is the man who said there was no difference between a CVA and Liquidation as a means of exiting administration and liquidated clubs should just reform in the same league.

He was with Norwich City before and obviously a product of the " Norwich Family " as per the song.

Part/Time Supporter
06-07-2012, 08:27 AM
Professor Tom Devine describes Regan's "social unrest" comment as inflammatory.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/regan-claims-inflammatory.18072767

Holmesdale Hibs
06-07-2012, 08:38 AM
The fact that the SFA openly considered bending the rules show that they are corrupt to the core. Anyone involved should be sacked.

Caversham Green
06-07-2012, 10:56 AM
I think Stewart Regan has done a lot of good work in reforming the game in Scotland and that makes his recent comments all the more disappointing.

I would have thought that one of the primary duties of the head of sporting organisation is to promote that sport - prophecies of a slow, lingering death hardly do that. Who is going to invest time and money into a sport that depends on the existence of a single competitor to avoid a slow, lingering death? He is admitting that he will not be capable of rescuing the game if "Rangers" are given impartial treatment so if fair play happens (which is what his association should be ensuring) he should have no option but to resign. He is also admitting that the SFA have made no contingency plans to cover an event that has been entirely predictable since February 14th, if not before - that strikes me as negligent.

Furthermore he is stating that the people who run 41 of our 42 senior clubs are incapable of putting together a viable league set-up without the presence of the 42nd club - that is grossly insulting to those people and a sad indictment of the game he is supposed to be running.

What he should be saying IMO is something along the lines of: 'Regardless of what happens with Rangers/Sevco, there are tough times ahead, but the Scottish footballing public is passionate about their game and we have capable and dedicated people running all 42 clubs. This is a unique opportunity to restructure our game so that we can give Scotland the game it deserves.' Some of that is even true.

We all know that Scottish football is not going to die, even if it does diminsh substantially and it was irresponsible of Regan to suggest that it would. If Stewart Regan believes what he has said he has admitted that he and his administration are incapable or running a sporting organisation. He should therefore step aside for someone who can.

alexedwards
06-07-2012, 11:03 AM
I think Stewart Regan has done a lot of good work in reforming the game in Scotland and that makes his recent comments all the more disappointing.

I would have thought that one of the primary duties of the head of sporting organisation is to promote that sport - prophecies of a slow, lingering death hardly do that. Who is going to invest time and money into a sport that depends on the existence of a single competitor to avoid a slow, lingering death? He is admitting that he will not be capable of rescuing the game if "Rangers" are given impartial treatment so if fair play happens (which is what his association should be ensuring) he should have no option but to resign. He is also admitting that the SFA have made no contingency plans to cover an event that has been entirely predictable since February 14th, if not before - that strikes me as negligent.

Furthermore he is stating that the people who run 41 of our 42 senior clubs are incapable of putting together a viable league set-up without the presence of the 42nd club - that is grossly insulting to those people and a sad indictment of the game he is supposed to be running.

What he should be saying IMO is something along the lines of: 'Regardless of what happens with Rangers/Sevco, there are tough times ahead, but the Scottish footballing public is passionate about their game and we have capable and dedicated people running all 42 clubs. This is a unique opportunity to restructure our game so that we can give Scotland the game it deserves.' Some of that is even true.

We all know that Scottish football is not going to die, even if it does diminsh substantially and it was irresponsible of Regan to suggest that it would. If Stewart Regan believes what he has said he has admitted that he and his administration are incapable or running a sporting organisation. He should therefore step aside for someone who can.


Regan/Doncaster appear to be running around to save their own jobs and themselves.......................it seems too late for that.

blackpoolhibs
06-07-2012, 11:05 AM
Regan/Doncaster appear to be running around to save their own jobs and themselves.......................it seems too late for that.

And more importantly, Newco. Corrupt to the core.

IWasThere2016
06-07-2012, 11:38 AM
Regan/Doncaster appear to be running around to save their own jobs and themselves.......................it seems too late for that.

Yup - the SFL will deliver a resounding two finger salute to them both, after their threats. And Dumb and Dumber should go promptly thereafter! :bye:

CropleyWasGod
06-07-2012, 11:42 AM
I think Stewart Regan has done a lot of good work in reforming the game in Scotland and that makes his recent comments all the more disappointing.

.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I was optimistic that he would be a good guy in all of this, which was borne out by his delegating the RFC disciplinary cases to independent tribunals. However, he seems to have blown all of that out of the water now. Unfortunately, it is this that he will be remembered by, and not the good stuff.

Captain Trips
06-07-2012, 11:59 AM
They have wasted weeks if not months on looking at avenues that defied the rules in place or looked to change them.

Newco should have been looking to apply for Div 3 weeks ago none of this messing about with dropping into other places and votes. If they had done thier jobs from Day 1 they could and should of had weeks to then come up with ideas going forward with Newco looking at Div 3, we could have been a long way down the road in sorting things with deals. Their failures see us still unsure and this never needed to be case, they are to busy trying to keep Rangers going as close as they were before instead of spending time on making sure this doesnt happen again.

Doncaster has neglected what will be left without Rangers, there is still a product there that can flourish but he has spent all his resources on Rangers problems forgetting we have 11 other teams.

They have to go they have failed to do their jobs.

DCI Gene Hunt
06-07-2012, 12:56 PM
They have wasted weeks if not months on looking at avenues that defied the rules in place or looked to change them.

Newco should have been looking to apply for Div 3 weeks ago none of this messing about with dropping into other places and votes. If they had done thier jobs from Day 1 they could and should of had weeks to then come up with ideas going forward with Newco looking at Div 3, we could have been a long way down the road in sorting things with deals. Their failures see us still unsure and this never needed to be case, they are to busy trying to keep Rangers going as close as they were before instead of spending time on making sure this doesnt happen again.

Doncaster has neglected what will be left without Rangers, there is still a product there that can flourish but he has spent all his resources on Rangers problems forgetting we have 11 other teams.

They have to go they have failed to do their jobs.

All correct, especially bold bit :agree:

Nauseatingly obvious pro-Rangers bias and apathy shown towards all other football clubs, enough scaremongering and pathetic excuses, get them punted ASAP :agree:

Gene

snooky
06-07-2012, 04:00 PM
Yeah, I'm with you on that. I was optimistic that he would be a good guy in all of this, which was borne out by his delegating the RFC disciplinary cases to independent tribunals. However, he seems to have blown all of that out of the water now. Unfortunately, it is this that he will be remembered by, and not the good stuff.

:agree:

e.g. "You s*** one sheep....."

alexedwards
07-07-2012, 09:35 AM
Yeah, I'm with you on that. I was optimistic that he would be a good guy in all of this, which was borne out by his delegating the RFC disciplinary cases to independent tribunals. However, he seems to have blown all of that out of the water now. Unfortunately, it is this that he will be remembered by, and not the good stuff.

The damage Regan has done in the last week alone makes his good stuff worthless. However, the damage may be left to others
to repair. Turns out he's a:bandit:

Iggy Pope
07-07-2012, 04:57 PM
May already be covered on this thread or other threads, but listened to a good bit of Off The Ball today.
I have little time for either Cosgrove or Cowan. Today they were joined by the ineffectual and long redundant dud Archie McPherson and the strangely muted Stephen Craigan, one carving out a career in the punditry of saying ****-all and the other still picking up a pension on the back of same.
Cosgrove and Cowan, two BBC chancers who have made a living out of the worst things in the game, do however. appear to have been on the right side in all of this and luckily had the excellent Alex Thomson in the studio who brought out some savvy in the pair. Cosgrove would appear to have exposed Traynor (one night earlier this week?) for the bumptious, illigiterate (copyright, Roger Mellie) sod that he is. There at last, seems to be open thought and debate on the BBC. This included much discussion on the rape of Scottish Football by Sky and the conjecture that there are many other avenues to consider including telling the telly to bolt.
Who would have thought it?

They played out with the Moody Blues' 'Go Now' in a closing message to Messrs Doncaster and Regan.

Rob MacLean and his array of numpties followed soon after, but for an hour or so..............

Thecat23
09-07-2012, 07:45 AM
For the last 6 months we have heard how if Rangers are not in the top flight, then SKY will walk away. The figures banded about have been complete fiction. Now, thanks to Stenhousemuir being the first club to really reveal (http://www.stenhousemuirfc.com/news/2012/07/05/790/) what Regan and Doncaster have been saying, we have some real figures to compare against.
All we had till yesterday was a commercial revenue of 18.7 million GBP
In the Stenhousemuir statement last night (here (http://www.stenhousemuirfc.com/news/2012/07/05/790/)) they claimed that the SFA and the SPL (eg, Regan and Doncaster) had presented the SFL clubs with the following figures re: tv deals:
Rangers in SFL3:

Loss of Sky broadcasting payments of circa £10m/season
Loss of ESPN broadcasting payments of circa £5m/season
Loss of Sportfive broadcasting payments of £2.7m/season (overseas broadcasters)
Loss of sponsorship of £1m/season
Additional new broadcasting deal with income of £3m/season
Rangers in SFL1:

Sky and ESPN have committed to retain their deals but include Rangers Newco content during the season
Loss of Sportfive broadcasting payments of £2.7m/season (no requirement if no Old Firm games)
Loss of sponsorship of £1m/season
So, here we have the following confirmed. DOMESTIC (I am excluding all other rights, as my figures below only include domestic rights, and not those sold to overseas) rights are currently 15m GBP per year. If Rangers are in SFL1, then TV deal will more or less stay as it is. If Rangers are in SFL3 then the TV deal will be only 3m GBP a year.
3,000,000 a year???!! Seriously?
Lets just assume for one minute that Regan/Doncaster are being serious. How does this deal compare to other European countries?
There is 2 ways we could do this. Firstly, we can compare total attendances (http://comparetheleagues.com/)and secondly, brand value (http://www.brandfinance.com/images/upload/brandfinance_football_brands_2012.pdf). I will explain brand value later, but lets start with Total Attendance,
The SPL, with Rangers, was the 11th most supported league (http://comparetheleagues.com/) (by attendances) in Europe last season. We had higher attendances than the Belgian, Russian, Portuguese, Swedish, Norweigan, Danish, Greek, Swiss, Austrian and Polish Premier Leagues. How did our TV revenue compare?
Note I have converted to EURO’s, so 15m becomes 18.75m.


Country
League
Rank
attendance
Actual TV rights/year EUROs


SCO
1
11
3,116,574.00
18,750,000.00


BEL
1
13
2,844,299.00
45,700,000.00 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Pro_League#Media_coverage)


SUI
1
18
2,045,762.00
36,500,000.00 (http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/swiss_superleague_broadcasting_rights_sold/)


POL
1
19
1,950,048.00
5,760,000.00 (http://www.leadersinsponsorship.com/the-leader/football-sponsorship-deals-of-the-week-6/)


NOR
1
20
1,931,144.00
56,000,000.00 (http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/norwegian_soccer_league_distributes_broadcast_righ ts/)


GRE
1
23
1,555,201.00
44,000,000.00 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superleague_Greece#Broadcasting_rights)


AUT
1
24
1,452,970.00
17,000,000.00 (http://www.sportbusiness.com/news/174718/orf-and-sky-secure-austrian-bundesliga)


DEN
1
25
1,395,774.00
45,000,000.00


As you can see, our deal does not compare very well (i have even included sources for these figures, just in case Doncaster thinks I am making them up!). All the leagues below us in this table get more TV revenue than the Scottish game, apart from the Polish league and Austrian leagues. However the Polish league has good oversea’s rights in Israel and Germany which boosts their revenue.
Another way to look at it is Brand Value. I took the brand value from this excellent report on European football (http://www.brandfinance.com/images/upload/brandfinance_football_brands_2012.pdf) which looks at the value of clubs in the country and then ranks the countries and leagues according to brand value. The SPL comes in at 16th in this list as you can see below.


Rank
Country
Value (millions)
TV rights EURO


2
G ER
3,038
422,000,000.00


3
ESP
1,531
560,000,000.00


4
ITA
1,122
892,000,000.00


5
FRA
849
517,000,000.00


10
SUI
201
36,500,000.00


11
DEN
155
45,000,000.00


12
BEL
150
45,700,000.00


13
NOR
108
56,000,000.00


14
POR
108
?


15
ROU
102
?


16
SCO
96
18,750,000.00


17
SRB
77
?


18
AUT
70
17,000,000.00


19
POL
54
5,760,000.00


20
SWE
50
?


21
GRE
44
44,000,000.00


26
HUN
19
3,500,000.00


37
IRL
4.5
1,000,000.00


As you can see, Scotland is still ahead of countries like Austria and Greece. Our brand value is not far behind Norway which has a deal almost 4 times what we have.
Based on the 2 tables above, it looks like our current deal is well undervalued, compared to other European countries, but lets adjust it for there being no Rangers. As Regan and Doncaster have just told us thanks to Stenhousemuir, our deal is ONLY 3,000,000 should Rangers be there. Here is the table for attendances again, minus ALL Rangers fans throughout the season; (again, adjusted to EUROs)


Country
League
Rank
attendance
Actual TV rights/year


BEL
1
13
2,844,299.00
45,700,000.00


SCO
1
11
2,396,574.00
3,600,000.00


SUI
1
18
2,045,762.00
36,500,000.00


POL
1
19
1,950,048.00
5,760,000.00


NOR
1
20
1,931,144.00
56,000,000.00


GRE
1
23
1,555,201.00
44,000,000.00


AUT
1
24
1,452,970.00
17,000,000.00


DEN
1
25
1,395,774.00
45,000,000.00


As you can see we are now behind Belgian but far ahead of the Swiss, the Danish, Greeks, and Norwegians. Infact, our ‘NEW’ deal would be equivalent to what the Hungarian league takes in TV revenue domestically (they also have a deal for games to be shown in Romania which I haven’t included) .
Just to put that in perspective, the Scottish game gets 2.4 million fans (after taking out the Rangers fans!), while the Hungarian League attracts just 700k fans. 3.5 times less. The Scottish game has a brand value of 96 million, while the Hungarian league has a value of 19million!! Yet our TV deal will be the same? We will get half of what the Polish league gets, despite us having more fans and a higher brand value?

Thecat23
09-07-2012, 07:49 AM
Ok, So Doncaster and Regan are talking ****. We knew that though. What we really want to know is what SHOULD our TV deal be. Based on the tables above I extrapolated the attendances against TV revenue for all the countries I could find data on and then used the ratio of tv revenue/attendances to predict what each country SHOULD get. The table below assumes Rangers are NOT in the league, yet keeping our current TV deal:







Average Ratio
17.93


Country
League
attendance
Actual TV rights/year
Ratio
Estimated TV
Under/Over value


RUS
1
2,896,940.00


51,940,174.73



BEL
1
2,844,299.00
45,700,000.00
16.07
50,996,357.21
(5,296,357.21)


FRA
2
2,590,962.00


46,454,196.15



ITA
2
2,399,991.00


43,030,215.29



SCO
1
2,396,574.00
18,750,000.00
5.341
42,968,950.80
(24,962,700.79)


POR
1
2,379,165.00


42,656,819.20



UKR
1
2,215,430.00


39,721,161.40



SUI
1
2,045,762.00
36,500,000.00
17.84
36,679,128.92
(179,128.92)


POL
1
1,950,048.00
5,760,000.00
2.954
34,963,041.64



NOR
1
1,931,144.00
56,000,000.00
29
34,624,105.71
21,375,894.29


RUS
2
1,660,545.00


29,772,448.67



SWE
1
1,556,651.00


27,909,699.52



GRE
1
1,555,201.00
44,000,000.00
28.29
27,883,702.00
16,116,298.00


AUT
1
1,452,970.00
17,000,000.00
11.7
26,050,769.32
(9,050,769.32)


DEN
1
1,395,774.00
45,000,000.00
32.24
25,025,283.73
19,974,716.27


Even if we keep our current TV deal of 15,000,000 GBP (note, figures above are in EURO), then a game without Rangers is still UNDERVALUED to the tune of 24,000,000 EUROs when compared to other European leagues!!
If we take the Doncaster/Regan figures of 3.5million Euros, our game would be undervalued at close to 39m Euro’s!
Throughout this saga we have been fed lie after lie. I have already proven our clubs won’t go bankrupt, as have others. No club has ever challenged figures presented by me here (http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/06/04/saints-without-rangers-a-question-of/), by others (such as Killie fans here (http://melvillesmusings.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/spl-tv-deal-post-rangers-fc/)) or by Motherwell themselves. I now challenge Doncaster and co to challenge these figures.
Maybe someone in the MSM would like to ask Doncaster and Regan WHY they undervalue our game so much?
My full worksheet can be found here on Google Docs (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvFkqcZj4WWUdGZtZTdwMFVMUzEwN1QyeWxVekpoZ Gc) – I have made assumptions, but if you can improve this please do so!
Share this:

micka_weer
09-07-2012, 07:50 AM
This seems like a lot of good information to have, it may even make sense to mr after a coffee :-)

Hibbyradge
09-07-2012, 07:50 AM
I read that the other day and I'm ashamed to admit, I don't really understand what conclusions it draws.

Steve-O
09-07-2012, 08:03 AM
I read that the other day and I'm ashamed to admit, I don't really understand what conclusions it draws.

The conclusion I draw is that our amazing TV deal that Doncaster et al are fighting tooth and nail to save is actually pretty gash and should be worth more even without Rangers.

I guess the problem for us is that the same Sky we get money from is the same Sky shelling out a fortune for the EPL while all these other countries in Europe have their own TV stations and can probably get the EPL for a tiny amount compared to what Sky UK are paying.

Lincoln Green
09-07-2012, 08:06 AM
Does this take into account competition for TV rights? In some of these countries there must be more channels to bid for the rights?

Things are only worth what someone will pay for them. In the UK we are smothered by Sky there is no competition. If they only pay peanuts the SPL has to accept the scraps it can get.

The BBC and ITV can't afford it and ESPN or perhaps the new BT sport channel are unlikely to take Scottish football seriously.

I agree entirely that the game in Scotland is entirely undervalued but the local market for TV Rights means that this is unlikely to change.

greenginger
09-07-2012, 08:17 AM
Imagine an Agency with the remit to sell Scottish Football to the various sponsors , TV companies etc.

They could have two brands to offer.

1) An all new cleaned up product concentrating on the sport, fairness and honest competition.

or,

2) The Original Flavour featuring all the old ingredients of hatred, biogtry, bullying with added Tax fraud, cheating, creditor stiffing, and the rest.

Which brand do you think the Agency would recommend be the one to be sold to the customers ?

Regan and Doncaster seem to think No.2 is the only sellable product :confused:

big-mo
09-07-2012, 08:24 AM
As I stated in the Hibs Supporters Clubs Statement tread - We are being shafted over TV money. Sky pay twice and much for Rugby League coverage than they do for SPL rights, BUT viewing figures are half of those they get for a run of the mill non-OF SPL game. Perhaps they missed the chance to be held to ransom by SKY and should have gone for SPL TV when they had the chance, maybe not too late. This could also be the opportunity to be looking at introduce summer football in Scotland? I could ask those with SKY Sports subs, when was the last time over the summer you switched onto a Sky Sports channel (except SSN) since the season ended? I think Sky would love to have something to show footie fans in summer. (That is if you could call this weather summer).

marinello59
09-07-2012, 08:25 AM
Imagine an Agency with the remit to sell Scottish Football to the various sponsors , TV companies etc.

They could have two brands to offer.

1) An all new cleaned up product concentrating on the sport, fairness and honest competition.

or,

2) The Original Flavour featuring all the old ingredients of hatred, biogtry, bullying with added Tax fraud, cheating, creditor stiffing, and the rest.

Which brand do you think the Agency would recommend be the one to be sold to the customers ?

Regan and Doncaster seem to think No.2 is the only sellable product :confused:
Version 2 certainly seems to have better storylines.:greengrin

Jim44
09-07-2012, 08:43 AM
Without trying pick holes in these figures and an admission that I am not completely clear on the 'formula' is it not debatable that, since the TV rights figures in the right hand column relate to a range of different TV companies in different countries and not necessarilly Sky, they aren't accurately comparable?

Hibby Kay-Yay
09-07-2012, 08:49 AM
Version 2 certainly seems to have better storylines.:greengrin

Which would make you think it's more valuable...

greenginger
09-07-2012, 08:55 AM
Which would make you think it's more valuable...



If I was promoting a Bank, Clydesdale for example, the last thing I would want was to see the Company name continually linked to a bunch of cheating, tax dodging, rip-off merchants.

Kind of sends out all the wrong subliminal messages. :greengrin

lucky
09-07-2012, 09:04 AM
This is covered in another thread. But the figures produced by the saints fan does not prove anything other than tv broadcasters don't rate Scottish football. Our tv deal is only worth what anyone is willing to pay. But now I can understand why RP is so keen on the SPL starting its own tv channel.

marinello59
09-07-2012, 09:05 AM
If I was promoting a Bank, Clydesdale for example, the last thing I would want was to see the Company name continually linked to a bunch of cheating, tax dodging, rip-off merchants.

Kind of sends out all the wrong subliminal messages. :greengrin

Barclays might think it's a perfect fit.

cabbageandribs1875
09-07-2012, 09:07 AM
as much as i luv looking at informative pretty wee graphs(seriously i really do) i don't need them to convince me that doncaster/regan/longmuir are a trio of bare-faced lying b******s....and that's a fact :agree:

matty_f
09-07-2012, 09:08 AM
Regan and Doncaster have been hugely negligent in how they have been talking about the SPL. Instead of talking the product up and insisting that there is still huge value in the SPL through the remaining clubs (and in doing so retaining a decent negotiating position for tv rights); they have totally devalued the product to the point where it is easy to pretty much present it as worthless without Rangers.
From a marketing and commercial point of view that is at best crass stupidity.
It's akin to Ratner's statement that killed his jewellery business.
If they were even half-decent at their jobs they'd have moved quickly to highlight the positives in the new league, focussed attention on other rivalries (Hibs/c****, Sheep/Arabs, ICT/Ross County), used the lack of Rangers as a chance to 'blow the title race wide open) etc and actually tried to improve the deal.
They are incompetent and should be removed from their positions asap.

MrSmith
09-07-2012, 09:21 AM
Regan and Doncaster have been hugely negligent in how they have been talking about the SPL. Instead of talking the product up and insisting that there is still huge value in the SPL through the remaining clubs (and in doing so retaining a decent negotiating position for tv rights); they have totally devalued the product to the point where it is easy to pretty much present it as worthless without Rangers.
From a marketing and commercial point of view that is at best crass stupidity.
It's akin to Ratner's statement that killed his jewellery business.
If they were even half-decent at their jobs they'd have moved quickly to highlight the positives in the new league, focussed attention on other rivalries (Hibs/c****, Sheep/Arabs, ICT/Ross County), used the lack of Rangers as a chance to 'blow the title race wide open) etc and actually tried to improve the deal.
They are incompetent and should be removed from their positions asap.

Nail, head etc. Exactly how I feel too. I simply cannot understand how or why this bunch of numpties are still in place?? The way they have sold Scottish Fitba down the river is criminal!

This was their chance to talk up: change, league reconstruction/expansion, fairer monetary distribution; rivalries/new derbies - Dundee Utd v Dundee etc; A new era for sporting integrity and fairness and so on becuase the list of positives is endless! But, no! They cannot because they are stuck in the establishment view relating to Rangers, chronyism, sectarianism and sycophantic tendancies!

I have siad this before: time for real change: all of them out of Glasgow, relocated to central Scotland (Perth for me!) and no more jobs for the boys! Also media out of Glasgow too! I do not pay BBC license for Glasgow only products!

ScottB
09-07-2012, 09:27 AM
There is no set value for Football Rights. What they can get in Belgium or Denmark is totally irrelevant frankly.

1. It's worth whatever anyone is willing to offer. Our current deal was the result of the only 2 broadcasters that were interested clubbing together - so a take it or leave it offer.

2. Scottish football has no strong position to negotiate from. We need the money, our game is not in demand. Sky or BT may decide they fancy showing it at the right price, but they won't be losing sleep over it if they don't.

3. Unlike any other country, we share broadcast space with one of the biggest leagues in the world, which also renders comparing our situation to other small countries as a bit pointless. That's where the focus, attention and viewers lie. The SPL may be well attended percentage wise, but viewers will be a drop in the ocean comparatively speaking with the EPL, so that's where budgets will go. Having EPL rights can make or break a TV channel / provider. That's not the case for us.


We need to reduce our dependency on TV cash, not get the begging bowl out and claim we should be getting more! It's not a charity, we have no right to a certain amount of money, nor does any broadcaster have to show our game.

rcarter1
09-07-2012, 09:30 AM
This is covered in another thread. But the figures produced by the saints fan does not prove anything other than tv broadcasters don't rate Scottish football. Our tv deal is only worth what anyone is willing to pay. But now I can understand why RP is so keen on the SPL starting its own tv channel.

These figures are definitely a useful addition to the overall debate. At first glance they do seem to suggest that Scottish football has undersold itself. It has been pointed out by others that there could be many reasons for this,
mainly due to our proximity to the big TV competitor the EPL which makes a bad situation even worse. I still suspect that we could if motivated, argue for a better deal than 3 million.

It is a shame that we have not gone with a scottish TV channel, as we would be far less exposed compared with now.
However I hope that this idea gets another look once the dust settles on the current fiasco.

If anyone understands the costs required to implement such a TV channel, it would great information have.

A TV (or internet based?) package that covered live matches for : 38 SPL games, 12 Cup Games, 10 SFL games, and all scottish internationals could be attractive to many in and outwith Scotland. It would then come down to how much individual households and commercial venues are willing to pay for this.

For example would people consider paying £100 a year for this?

How would people feel if offered the deal at £50 for the first year, and £100 for each year after (with no obligations to renew any given season).

There are about 2.4 million households in Scotland. If 240,000 households signed up for this kind of deal, you could looking at £24 million - costs. This would not included overseas rights, revenue from Pubs etc. My guestimate on wage costs for operating something like this including camera people, commentators, pundits, editors and technical staff as well as management and execs would be in the region of about £3million pounds per year (assuming that it will be run by committed scottish football people, and do not command wages of the EPL cash cow).

So I suppose the question is, would people buy this at the prices suggested and in the numbers suggested, and what are the actual set up and running costs of this?

Crazyhorse
09-07-2012, 09:42 AM
This is covered in another thread. But the figures produced by the saints fan does not prove anything other than tv broadcasters don't rate Scottish football. Our tv deal is only worth what anyone is willing to pay. But now I can understand why RP is so keen on the SPL starting its own tv channel.

Certainly the dutch have made their own TV channel work well for the benefit of all the clubs.

There is a problem with the saints fan's analysis in the sense that to me he is comparing chalk and cheese at times. Belgium seems to be doing so much better than Scotland in terms of recent TV deals and it is. However in Belgium in the past decade the league has been won by four different teams spread across the country (Anderlect 4 times, Club Bruges 3 times, Standard Liege 2 times and Racing Genk 2 times) which is a bit like teams from Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen fighting it out every year for the title and all having a chance. The last three titles were won by Anderlect, Genk and Standard. Who is going to win it this year? Who knows? there is a level of excitment across the country with at least 4 teams believing they can do it. When did that last happen in Scotland?

LeighLoyal
09-07-2012, 09:55 AM
Certainly the dutch have made their own TV channel work well for the benefit of all the clubs.

There is a problem with the saints fan's analysis in the sense that to me he is comparing chalk and cheese at times. Belgium seems to be doing so much better than Scotland in terms of recent TV deals and it is. However in Belgium in the past decade the league has been won by four different teams spread across the country (Anderlect 4 times, Club Bruges 3 times, Standard Liege 2 times and Racing Genk 2 times) which is a bit like teams from Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen fighting it out every year for the title and all having a chance. The last three titles were won by Anderlect, Genk and Standard. Who is going to win it this year? Who knows? there is a level of excitment across the country with at least 4 teams believing they can do it. When did that last happen in Scotland?


Yeah, but maybe their league has not had a club like RFC cheating taxes, running dual contracts and milking millions from an idiot bank like Bank of Scotland for three decades. It might be a level playing field.

ScottB
09-07-2012, 09:56 AM
Certainly the dutch have made their own TV channel work well for the benefit of all the clubs.

There is a problem with the saints fan's analysis in the sense that to me he is comparing chalk and cheese at times. Belgium seems to be doing so much better than Scotland in terms of recent TV deals and it is. However in Belgium in the past decade the league has been won by four different teams spread across the country (Anderlect 4 times, Club Bruges 3 times, Standard Liege 2 times and Racing Genk 2 times) which is a bit like teams from Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen fighting it out every year for the title and all having a chance. The last three titles were won by Anderlect, Genk and Standard. Who is going to win it this year? Who knows? there is a level of excitment across the country with at least 4 teams believing they can do it. When did that last happen in Scotland?

Most leagues don't have two clubs with vastly higher attendances.

Let's not get carried away here, if there was no TV deal at all, the Old Firm would still have far more money to spend. Perhaps they wouldn't dominate quite as much as they have, but still. And even if say Hibs and Hearts also started fighting for titles, would viewership of games go up by a lot? Who here regularly watches SPL matches on TV that don't involve Hibs? Perhaps if the overall standard of football was higher. La Liga probably gets great viewer numbers here, even though only 2 teams there can win the league, because the matches are great to watch.

Fact is though, in Belgium, their TV Channels will be showing mostly Belgian games, with some foreign ones tacked on, here we get mostly EPL games with SPL ones tacked on.

PatHead
09-07-2012, 10:01 AM
Tin hat on and playing devil's advocate- How many viewers would be lost due to the loss of Rangers? If I was a tv company it would influence how much I would pay. Nothing a company hates more than an uncertain market.

Spudster
09-07-2012, 10:02 AM
Excellent work TheCat :top marks

Have you tired contacting clubs, the SFA, the SPL, ESPN or Sky with this?

Thecat23
09-07-2012, 10:08 AM
Excellent work TheCat :top marks

Have you tired contacting clubs, the SFA, the SPL, ESPN or Sky with this?

I just copied it mate as i think it should be highlighted. I thought of sending it to all SPL clubs along with the SFA, SPL. But not sure if I should.

calmac12000
09-07-2012, 10:28 AM
Excellent work a real one in the eye for Doncaster et al and their media fuelled hysteria. At the very least it shows the total fallacy of blinkered vision and the refusal to consider alternative paradigms.
:flag:

Thecat23
09-07-2012, 10:30 AM
Excellent work a real one in the eye for Doncaster et al and their media fuelled hysteria. At the very least it shows the total fallacy of blinkered vision and the refusal to consider alternative paradigms.
:flag:

Exactly, it's unreal how far the media and the folk in charge have tried to scaremonger us into thinking we're all doomed. When really we are far from it.

marinello59
09-07-2012, 10:32 AM
Most leagues don't have two clubs with vastly higher attendances.

Let's not get carried away here, if there was no TV deal at all, the Old Firm would still have far more money to spend. Perhaps they wouldn't dominate quite as much as they have, but still. And even if say Hibs and Hearts also started fighting for titles, would viewership of games go up by a lot? Who here regularly watches SPL matches on TV that don't involve Hibs? Perhaps if the overall standard of football was higher. La Liga probably gets great viewer numbers here, even though only 2 teams there can win the league, because the matches are great to watch.

Fact is though, in Belgium, their TV Channels will be showing mostly Belgian games, with some foreign ones tacked on, here we get mostly EPL games with SPL ones tacked on.

That's the big difference here. Whether or not a channel shows Scottish Football or not wouldn't really influence my decision to subscribe.

Phil D. Rolls
09-07-2012, 10:36 AM
If I was promoting a Bank, Clydesdale for example, the last thing I would want was to see the Company name continually linked to a bunch of cheating, tax dodging, rip-off merchants.

Kind of sends out all the wrong subliminal messages. :greengrin

:aok:

Spudster
09-07-2012, 10:41 AM
I just copied it mate as i think it should be highlighted. I thought of sending it to all SPL clubs along with the SFA, SPL. But not sure if I should.

Definitely worth sending IMO. Of course things can be skewed as people have mentioned: the proximity to the EPL, the likes of Norway (4X times Scotland) and Belgium having a far greater GDP than here but the facts are still relevant.

I wouldn't be too confident of an SPL channel though, the SPL produced highlights programme on sky midweek is horrendous. Reminds me of Scotsport circa 1991

Hibby Kay-Yay
09-07-2012, 11:13 AM
Regan and Doncaster have been hugely negligent in how they have been talking about the SPL. Instead of talking the product up and insisting that there is still huge value in the SPL through the remaining clubs (and in doing so retaining a decent negotiating position for tv rights); they have totally devalued the product to the point where it is easy to pretty much present it as worthless without Rangers.
From a marketing and commercial point of view that is at best crass stupidity.
It's akin to Ratner's statement that killed his jewellery business.
If they were even half-decent at their jobs they'd have moved quickly to highlight the positives in the new league, focussed attention on other rivalries (Hibs/c****, Sheep/Arabs, ICT/Ross County), used the lack of Rangers as a chance to 'blow the title race wide open) etc and actually tried to improve the deal.
They are incompetent and should be removed from their positions asap.

This

oxymoron
09-07-2012, 11:35 AM
:agree:

An excellent piece of analysis... fascinating to see the comparisons with what you would think are equivalent (and indeed in some instances lesser) leagues.

...problem is market forces - the value of your product is in what the market is prepared to pay - and Sky have it corned here in the UK; have overpaid for the EPL & Championship etc. and have no serious competition for our game with the crumbs remaining. I don't think this data is a stick to beat the 'leadership' of the SPL, or indeed Sky (can you blame them in the circumstances?).

For me the question is 'what lessons can we learn from other leagues in terms of creating a competitive market?' How could we force Sky (or whoever) to take us seriously in the marketplace? How do we get another 'player'? Is it possible to double-up a deal with another league - the Dutch/ Irish/ one of the Scandinavians? Across two leagues (with perhaps an interesting 'winner takes all' playoff) might work.

rcarter1
09-07-2012, 12:12 PM
:agree:

An excellent piece of analysis... fascinating to see the comparisons with what you would think are equivalent (and indeed in some instances lesser) leagues.

...problem is market forces - the value of your product is in what the market is prepared to pay - and Sky have it corned here in the UK; have overpaid for the EPL & Championship etc. and have no serious competition for our game with the crumbs remaining. I don't think this data is a stick to beat the 'leadership' of the SPL, or indeed Sky (can you blame them in the circumstances?).

For me the question is 'what lessons can we learn from other leagues in terms of creating a competitive market?' How could we force Sky (or whoever) to take us seriously in the marketplace? How do we get another 'player'? Is it possible to double-up a deal with another league - the Dutch/ Irish/ one of the Scandinavians? Across two leagues (with perhaps an interesting 'winner takes all' playoff) might work.

These and other arguments, (in particular the Ratner's effect argument) reinforce how weak a position Scottish football is in terms of getting any kind of deal that reflects the attendances and overall interest there is in this country. I can not see how we can attract the interest of SKY or any other outside interest given the status of our league.

In that context, a do it ourselves model, would go straight to the horses mouth (i.e. the scottish public) in terms of getting value for money. Why should Scottish football bother making SKY money, when they can, (if Roncaster are right) at a moments notice, leave us high and dry?

If we had been operating our own TV, the Rangers situation would no doubt have hit revenues due to cancellations by Rangers and some neutrals and some Celtic fans, but would have been unlikely to drop from £17m to £3m.

Maybe Im on my own here, but Id pay between 50-100 quid a year for a comprehensive and exclusive scottish football (incl internationals) channel. Sky sports costs about £240 a year albeit for a range of sports, and Ive never been tempted to go for it, because I can watch most of what I want sportswise on the free view channels.

Hibeescott
09-07-2012, 12:23 PM
I just copied it mate as i think it should be highlighted. I thought of sending it to all SPL clubs along with the SFA, SPL. But not sure if I should.


Very interesting information you have posted there. The whole thing stinks of west coast bias. It is a lot of effort for you to go to but if you can be bothered then I would definitely be sending your information to as many clubs as you can, plus the SFA and SPL, addressed to regan and doncaster!

ScottB
09-07-2012, 12:34 PM
I believe UEFA now sells international rights collectively...

jgl07
09-07-2012, 12:36 PM
I believe UEFA now sells international rights collectively...

That sounds exceedingly unlikely especially as the most lucrative markets for many leagues is in Asia.

Mikeystewart
09-07-2012, 12:42 PM
Maybe an SPL TV wouldn't be a bad idea, with every penny going to the clubs.

Thecat23
09-07-2012, 12:43 PM
Very interesting information you have posted there. The whole thing stinks of west coast bias. It is a lot of effort for you to go to but if you can be bothered then I would definitely be sending your information to as many clubs as you can, plus the SFA and SPL, addressed to regan and doncaster!

Going to send this to every club this afternoon and SFA/SPL. I'll post what the response's are if any!

DevonLoch
09-07-2012, 12:50 PM
Very interesting information you have posted there. The whole thing stinks of west coast bias. It is a lot of effort for you to go to but if you can be bothered then I would definitely be sending your information to as many clubs as you can, plus the SFA and SPL, addressed to regan and doncaster!

Agreed. Great bit of research and analysis. Fascinating to see the comparative TV fees and viewing figures. Definitely deserves a wider audience.

Part/Time Supporter
09-07-2012, 01:07 PM
I believe UEFA now sells international rights collectively...

That's for international qualifying games, not domestic leagues.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17536407

VickMackie
18-07-2012, 03:32 PM
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/stewart-regan-quits-twitter-after-abuse-1-2417511

Maybe now the **** will resign from his real job.

HibeeMG
18-07-2012, 03:59 PM
I got blocked by him purely for saying that I hoped Craig Thomson had a better game in the Euro's than he did in the cup-final.

Seems he was a tad touchy.

Saorsa
18-07-2012, 04:14 PM
Now all he needs tae dae is **** off altogether

snooky
18-07-2012, 04:17 PM
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/stewart-regan-quits-twitter-after-abuse-1-2417511

Maybe now the **** will resign from his real job.


Regan quits twitter after abuse

or, translated

Twatter quits Twitter

down-the-slope
18-07-2012, 07:46 PM
internet numpties :agree:

jacomo
18-07-2012, 09:59 PM
Regan and Doncaster have been hugely negligent in how they have been talking about the SPL. Instead of talking the product up and insisting that there is still huge value in the SPL through the remaining clubs (and in doing so retaining a decent negotiating position for tv rights); they have totally devalued the product to the point where it is easy to pretty much present it as worthless without Rangers.
From a marketing and commercial point of view that is at best crass stupidity.
It's akin to Ratner's statement that killed his jewellery business.
If they were even half-decent at their jobs they'd have moved quickly to highlight the positives in the new league, focussed attention on other rivalries (Hibs/c****, Sheep/Arabs, ICT/Ross County), used the lack of Rangers as a chance to 'blow the title race wide open) etc and actually tried to improve the deal.
They are incompetent and should be removed from their positions asap.

:agree:

Just imagine Doncaster being sent into the meeting with Sky ESPN to secure the best outcome for the SPL in light of Rangers' demise. Makes you shudder just thinking about it. Boh he and Regan need to go ASAP.

jgl07
18-07-2012, 10:59 PM
I thought it was a bit rich to see Doncaster defending Regan over this issue.

It strikes me as rather like Hitler defending Himler on war crimes.