Message From Pat - Your Club Needs You.

[matty_f]

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20120627/a-message-to-all-hibernian-supporters_2262950_2561148

[JustSimplyHibs]

What you all waiting on????

Do you want players like McPake leading this great club?

You know what to do!!!!








Still here? Maybe a wee bit of help to get you started (see below)

https://www.eticketing.co.uk/hibernianfc/default.aspx

[lyonhibs]

It's a total "Chicken and egg" situation though.

After the past 3/4 seasons, no-one should be trying to guilt trip any supporter who "waits and sees"/"picks and chooses their games" as opposed to shelling out - especially at the vastly overpriced SPL prices, not that that is necessarily Hibs fault, but in these times, £400+ is a lot of money - on a season ticket.

[Onceinawhile]

2500 non renewals. That's a lot.

[Steve20]

I am one of the 2500 who decided to wait and see what will happen over the summer. Every year until now I have paid my season ticket right at the start of the summer. However, the last few years we have seen nothing but rubbish on the pitch, which is why I chose to wait. You can't expect everyone to pay £400 in blind faith every summer.

[LancashireHibby]

2500 non renewals. That's a lot.
It's entirely typical at this time of year in my experience.

[whiskyhibby]

Is the Kicks for Kids scheme on this year? I could support it as I have on the past for a couple of additional tickets


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?br4lky

[Cabbage East]

Lots will be waiting til after 4 July to see the vote confirmed and others even further still to see where the huns end up. It's not all about waiting to see who the club signs although I can understand Pat's comments.

[green&left]

What you all waiting on????

Do you want players like McPake leading this great club?

You know what to do!!!!








Still here? Maybe a wee bit of help to get you started (see below)

https://www.eticketing.co.uk/hibernianfc/default.aspx

Fantastic if you happen to have £405 going spare. I don't so it'll be PATG every 2nd weekend for me :)

Good bit marketing for Hibs would've been for them to end that statement with an extension to the payment plan, then maybe just maybe.......

[rcarter1]

Any idea how many season ticket holders there were last season?

[marinello59]

It's a total "Chicken and egg" situation though.

After the past 3/4 seasons, no-one should be trying to guilt trip any supporter who "waits and sees"/"picks and chooses their games" as opposed to shelling out - especially at the vastly overpriced SPL prices, not that that is necessarily Hibs fault, but in these times, £400+ is a lot of money - on a season ticket.

I don't see it as an attempt to guilt trip anybody. It's simply a statement of fact from the manager. If we want to get out of this hole the the more cash Pat Fenlon has to work with the easier it will be. That can't be disputed. The reasons we are in this mess can be repeated ad nauseum but that won't help us in the present.

[Saorsa]

It's a total "Chicken and egg" situation though.

After the past 3/4 seasons, no-one should be trying to guilt trip any supporter who "waits and sees"/"picks and chooses their games" as opposed to shelling out - especially at the vastly overpriced SPL prices, not that that is necessarily Hibs fault, but in these times, £400+ is a lot of money - on a season ticket.It's not a chicken and egg situation for with regards tae who we do or dinnae sign over the summer and that's never been the case for me, I've always renewed within the first few days or weeks of tickets going on sale. My decision no tae renew this time round has everything tae do with what I believe tae be right and wrong. I love Hibs and I really like and believe in Pat Fenlon and what he has tae say but I will not go against what I believe tae be right and wrong on the current situation. If and only if the correct decision is made on that will I renew.

[Billy Whizz]

What it doesn't say is how many new season ticket holders we have as a result of getting a Cup Final ticket?

[marinello59]

Fantastic if you happen to have £405 going spare. I don't so it'll be PATG every 2nd weekend for me :)

Good bit marketing for Hibs would've been for them to end that statement with an extension to the payment plan, then maybe just maybe.......

If Hibs brought back the payment plan/sign decent players/win more matches/say no to Newco...... They have? Then can I change that to make sure they start in Division 3/let me stand/lower prices/sack Rod Petrie/arrange for four scantily clad blondes to carry me to the game on a sedan chair.............then maybe, just maybe, I will renew.

[hibbybrian]

Is the Kicks for Kids scheme on this year? I could support it as I have on the past for a couple of additional tickets

I sent an e-mail to the club 2 days ago asking about the "Kicks for Kids" and the Hibernian membership scheme but not had a response yet :rolleyes:

[Beefster]

I sent an e-mail to the club 2 days ago asking about the "Kicks for Kids" and the Hibernian membership scheme but not had a response yet :rolleyes:

Might be best to give them more than 48 hours to respond to a non-urgent email before giving them the 'rolling eyes' smilie. It's not like they have a customer service centre waiting to answer queries.

[Topographic Hibby]

I can't commit to a ST, but would like to help out on other ways (already a shareholder FWIW from the Duff & Grey days!).

Can the club re-launch a revised "Membership" scheme, similar to the one put out around Xmas last year? I'd put my hand in my pocket for that - otherwise, you'll have to accept my PATG money for the games I do make each season. I've already pencilled in the opening day at DUFC (no boycott here) and the Club12 home date, and possibly the Huddersfield & Bucharest games.

What else can I do, Pat?

TH

[Beefster]

If Hibs brought back the payment plan/sign decent players/win more matches/say no to Newco...... They have? Then can I change that to make sure they start in Division 3/let me stand/lower prices/sack Rod Petrie/arrange for four scantily clad blondes to carry me to the game on a sedan chair.............then maybe, just maybe, I will renew.

I'm not renewing until they confirm that the catering outlets will be stocking lobster and caviar bellinis at half-time. Once they confirm that, I won't be renewing until they confirm that my seat will have a cushion.

[GreenCastle]

The idea of a Direct Debit type membership I thought was a good one for people who were unable to pay 400 straight up.

Hibs could advertise it say -

Gold
Silver
Bronze

Each category a different cost and entitles you to certain benefits to the club. Similar to a gym membership.

This would be separate from Season Ticket membership but would still allow others to contribute.

I still think a loyalty scheme should be announced - something as simple like a Boots / Tesco Reward card where the more you spend the more points you get - again helps with ticketing for certain games and the club can reward their loyal fans with certain incentives.

[blackpoolhibs]

So 2500 did not or have not renewed, how many did buy one because it guaranteed them a season ticket?

If it was 1 thousand, then we are 1500 down, and some will buy before the season starts. Maybe it was 2 thousand, or 1500, we just dont know?

I'm not convinced its the doomsday scenario some folk are thinking.

A simple statement telling us just how many new season tickets we sold, and a total of how many we have sold, and then a plea to those who have not yet would stop any confusion.

Sometimes you need to tell the truth Hibs, even the bad stuff.

[HibsMax]

2500 non renewals. That's a lot.

Agreed. I thought that the SC Final ticket program would have resulted in more ST sales.

[hibbybrian]

Might be best to give them more than 48 hours to respond to a non-urgent email before giving them the 'rolling eyes' smilie. It's not like they have a customer service centre waiting to answer queries.

It's hardly as if I'm asking for info on new signings etc.

Given the Club are on the website asking the fans to contribute to making up the shortfall from the "newco" perhaps their customer service centre could inform fans of ways they can contribute, on the same website, rather than fans having to ask on .net or by e-mail :wink:

[Beefster]

It's hardly as if I'm asking for info on new signings etc.

Given the Club are on the website asking the fans to contribute to making up the shortfall from the "newco" perhaps their customer service centre could inform fans of ways they can contribute, on the same website, rather than fans having to ask on .net or by e-mail :wink:

Patience is a virtue! I'm sure they'll get back to you soon enough.

[Saorsa]

Agreed. I thought that the SC Final ticket program would have resulted in more ST sales.That figure only tells us how many of last seasons ST holders didnae renew, nae mention of how many new ST holders bought for a cup final ticket. I doubt we're down that number in total. They always seem tae be painting the worst picture, why no give us all the figures for a change instead of just telling us the bits they want.

[PeterboroHibee]

I can't commit to a ST, but would like to help out on other ways (already a shareholder FWIW from the Duff & Grey days!).

Can the club re-launch a revised "Membership" scheme, similar to the one put out around Xmas last year? I'd put my hand in my pocket for that - otherwise, you'll have to accept my PATG money for the games I do make each season. I've already pencilled in the opening day at DUFC (no boycott here) and the Club12 home date, and possibly the Huddersfield & Bucharest games.

What else can I do, Pat?

TH

Like you I cant really commit to a ST, as Im moving down South soon and thus need all my money. But Ive still been a ST holder and invested a lot of money in the team following them about, including buying merchandise, going to friendlies etc, and I will continue to do so.

I do understand where the board are coming from, but a lot of fans are fed up putting heard earned money (and a ST(s) can be a huge sum of money for people) into something that has given almost no return in the last few years. Weve had one signing so far, and I accept that the club needs money to be able to go out and buy players, but I think they are going to have to do a little better than that before more people are willing to purchase a ST (eg someone like McPake).

Once the Rangers thing is sorted I imagine there will also be an improvement in ST sales.

[LeighLoyal]

I might buy one and show solidarity when Sevco are confirmed sfl 3, or even better when they're permanently tits up. Haven't had one since 07.

[HibsMax]

Fantastic if you happen to have £405 going spare. I don't so it'll be PATG every 2nd weekend for me :)

Good bit marketing for Hibs would've been for them to end that statement with an extension to the payment plan, then maybe just maybe.......

Genuine question. Is the payment plan better than a 12 month bank loan? I know nothing about the payment plan so can't say.

[blackpoolhibs]

That figure only tells us how many of last seasons ST holders didnae renew, nae mention of how many new ST holders bought for a cup final ticket. I doubt we're down that number in total. They always seem tae be painting the worst picture, why no give us all the figures for a change instead of just telling us the bits they want.

:agree: I can take it if its bad news, in fact sometimes when our club is in the crap, we seem to rally round and find that extra quid or two. Treat us like adults FFS.

[SlickShoes]

I can't afford a season ticket and i'm not going to be guilted in to it either!

Hibs should get on kickstarter and do a "buy a player" fund, i'd gladly chip in £20 rather than £400 for a season ticket.

[hibbybrian]

Patience is a virtue! I'm sure they'll get back to you soon enough.

I'm not bothered about getting a response Beefster :wink: - but there are already 3 posters on this thread wondering how they can contribute. Hopefully someone at the Club will think about putting something on the official site giving details of how the fans can help. :aok:

[Andy74]

Did they not confirm at the recent forum that were that amount down it total? There would have been minimum totally new members who bought for a final ticket - I think that was a bit overplayed at the time.

[matty_f]

So 2500 did not or have not renewed, how many did buy one because it guaranteed them a season ticket?

If it was 1 thousand, then we are 1500 down, and some will buy before the season starts. Maybe it was 2 thousand, or 1500, we just dont know?

I'm not convinced its the doomsday scenario some folk are thinking.

A simple statement telling us just how many new season tickets we sold, and a total of how many we have sold, and then a plea to those who have not yet would stop any confusion.

Sometimes you need to tell the truth Hibs, even the bad stuff.


That figure only tells us how many of last seasons ST holders didnae renew, nae mention of how many new ST holders bought for a cup final ticket. I doubt we're down that number in total. They always seem tae be painting the worst picture, why no give us all the figures for a change instead of just telling us the bits they want.

I think regardless of the specific figures, it is abundantly clear that the club are struggling to get the sort of budget Pat needs to bring in the players that he and we want to see in the first team.

Hibs are a much easier 'sell' when there's a feel good factor about the place. The club have been quick historicaly to announce record season ticket sales when we've been doing well, so I don't think they're looking at putting a particularly negative angle on the facts for the sake of it.

The bottom line is Hibs are struggling financially, and other than sponsors, SKY, and a few other income streams, the money to run the business (like virtually every business on the planet) comes from the consumer (or in the case of football clubs, the supporters - I think there's a difference).

If we don't put the money in, Pat can't get the players he wants, we don't get the success we want, things get worse and eventually we don't have anywhere else to go but down.

I don't think it's scaremongering, or a guilt trip, it's just the basic economics of the situation. Good players cost money, we don't have that money unless the support buy from the club in good numbers. It's really not a difficult message to digest, and as much as I agree that the product has been awful for 2 or 3 years now, and I agree that people are within their rights to choose not to renew or buy a new season ticket, and I recognise that some can't afford it etc, the bottom line is we all have the power to influence how good a team we have on the pitch this coming season. You can influence that positively by backing the club and getting a season ticket, or you can influence it negatively by not buying one and sniping at the club for the poor product that you're not paying for.

[Hibby70]

I could probably afford one but just cant deal with another season where I wished I hadnt renewed. I'll go to every game if we start turning things around and have players that seem to try on a weekly basis. Until then I'm on a week by week basis.

[Emerald]

It all sounds a bit desperate to me. He needs to sign a lot of players to replace the ones thet have left, so I would have thought that these replacements were all just about done and dusted and about to sign. This statement sounds like he needs more ST renewals in order to get more players in. I appreciate they dont want to spend money they dont have but in order to compete, a football club needs a team and for that it needs players. It would appear from this there is no list of players that are just about to be slotted in. Its starting to sound a lot like last years closed season. What makes this statement very worrying is that we need so many players in so many positions, were not just talking about needing money to make one or two signings. I for one thought that at some point the gaps would start getting filled. Now I'm not so sure :confused:

[lyonhibs]

I don't see it as an attempt to guilt trip anybody. It's simply a statement of fact from the manager. If we want to get out of this hole the the more cash Pat Fenlon has to work with the easier it will be. That can't be disputed. The reasons we are in this mess can be repeated ad nauseum but that won't help us in the present.

Apologies for not being clearer. I meant "guilt-tripped by the impending wave of "holier-than-thou" ST holders" :greengrin (not that I think all, or even most, ST holders adopt the "holier than thou" uber-fan(ny) approach)

I don't think the statement is a guilt-trip at all. Like you say, it's a statement of fact, but there are other facts that you say - rightly I guess - "won't help us in the present", but I think some people will still see - again quite understandably IMO - the pathetic performances of the last 3 seasons as a barrier to spending £400+ in a one-er this time around.

A bit of a vicious cycle I'll grant, but people have seen their invested time, money, emotion and effort be pissed up against the wall by the club for far too long now to expect them all to renew faithfully year after year.

And then there's the impending decision of the future of the Huns as a factor.

[bighairyfaeleith]

If they would do a payment scheme over the next six months then I would buy one, but £405 right now is a no go so i will be pay at the gate. Not looking for a discount with the monthly payment, in fact would even pay a little more for the convenience.

[Devine]

Message from me to Hibernian Board - Year in year out many of us (many more in years past) have put their hard earned cash into the club. Year in year out you have failed us by your poor decision making and lack of budget for the playing squad. So now is the time for YOU to stand up and be counted and show us by signing some players of repute/excitement early in the window that you are going to focus on the team and make sure events such as 2012 Scottish Cup Final never happen again. Start investing and repaying the faith of the support then you might see that faith reciprocated.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think regardless of the specific figures, it is abundantly clear that the club are struggling to get the sort of budget Pat needs to bring in the players that he and we want to see in the first team.

Hibs are a much easier 'sell' when there's a feel good factor about the place. The club have been quick historicaly to announce record season ticket sales when we've been doing well, so I don't think they're looking at putting a particularly negative angle on the facts for the sake of it.

The bottom line is Hibs are struggling financially, and other than sponsors, SKY, and a few other income streams, the money to run the business (like virtually every business on the planet) comes from the consumer (or in the case of football clubs, the supporters - I think there's a difference).

If we don't put the money in, Pat can't get the players he wants, we don't get the success we want, things get worse and eventually we don't have anywhere else to go but down.

I don't think it's scaremongering, or a guilt trip, it's just the basic economics of the situation. Good players cost money, we don't have that money unless the support buy from the club in good numbers. It's really not a difficult message to digest, and as much as I agree that the product has been awful for 2 or 3 years now, and I agree that people are within their rights to choose not to renew or buy a new season ticket, and I recognise that some can't afford it etc, the bottom line is we all have the power to influence how good a team we have on the pitch this coming season. You can influence that positively by backing the club and getting a season ticket, or you can influence it negatively by not buying one and sniping at the club for the poor product that you're not paying for.

Good players might cost money, but hibs pay well over the odds for bad ones. I agree we need as many season tickets sold as possible, but i'm certainly not going to get worked up over perhaps selling slightly more season tickets than say Motherwell.

A decent manager gets more from his players, more from his team and a much better league position than our current team, who have been paid much more than those higher than we managed over the last 2 seasons.

If we only sell 5000 season tickets, well thats what we have sold. Although i have no idea how many we have sold, neither do you Matty, the club wont tell us?

Lets get the manager actually managing for a change, others manage it well enough.

[HibsMax]

Might be best to give them more than 48 hours to respond to a non-urgent email before giving them the 'rolling eyes' smilie. It's not like they have a customer service centre waiting to answer queries.

First of all, Hibs should have this information available on the website already. It's not a new scheme, they should have details by now.

Secondly, why shouldn't people expect a prompt response regarding this matter? You say it's a non-urgent e-mail but I disagree. It's not life-threatening (what e-mails to the club are?) and the club want more money for Pat....so I would say this is kinda important.

[lyonhibs]

I think regardless of the specific figures, it is abundantly clear that the club are struggling to get the sort of budget Pat needs to bring in the players that he and we want to see in the first team.

Hibs are a much easier 'sell' when there's a feel good factor about the place. The club have been quick historicaly to announce record season ticket sales when we've been doing well, so I don't think they're looking at putting a particularly negative angle on the facts for the sake of it.

The bottom line is Hibs are struggling financially, and other than sponsors, SKY, and a few other income streams, the money to run the business (like virtually every business on the planet) comes from the consumer (or in the case of football clubs, the supporters - I think there's a difference).

If we don't put the money in, Pat can't get the players he wants, we don't get the success we want, things get worse and eventually we don't have anywhere else to go but down.

I don't think it's scaremongering, or a guilt trip, it's just the basic economics of the situation. Good players cost money, we don't have that money unless the support buy from the club in good numbers. It's really not a difficult message to digest, and as much as I agree that the product has been awful for 2 or 3 years now, and I agree that people are within their rights to choose not to renew or buy a new season ticket, and I recognise that some can't afford it etc, the bottom line is we all have the power to influence how good a team we have on the pitch this coming season. You can influence that positively by backing the club and getting a season ticket, or you can influence it negatively by not buying one and sniping at the club for the poor product that you're not paying for.

And is that really - in your opinion - what people who choose not to buy a ST get up to on a week-by-week basis?

[matty_f]

Did they not confirm at the recent forum that were that amount down it total? There would have been minimum totally new members who bought for a final ticket - I think that was a bit overplayed at the time.

Folk maybe interpreted the message differently Andy, but I've seen Scoopyboy's post on the subject and (having sat right next to Scoopyboy at the time). Scott Lindsay said we were about 2000 season ticket renewals down. Scoopyboy asked if new sales had offset that, and Scott looked him in the eye and said we were down about 2000.

To me, I interpreted that (as I think Scoopyboy did) as being that the total figure was down 2000 on last year's figures. He wasn't distinguishing between renewals and new season ticket sales.

[bighairyfaeleith]

I smell an uber fan debate starting here:greengrin Quality!!

[lyonhibs]

I smell an uber fan debate starting here:greengrin Quality!!

Oh, I do hope so :pray:

Place your bets now: 19 pages.

[HibsMax]

I think regardless of the specific figures, it is abundantly clear that the club are struggling to get the sort of budget Pat needs to bring in the players that he and we want to see in the first team.

Hibs are a much easier 'sell' when there's a feel good factor about the place. The club have been quick historicaly to announce record season ticket sales when we've been doing well, so I don't think they're looking at putting a particularly negative angle on the facts for the sake of it.

The bottom line is Hibs are struggling financially, and other than sponsors, SKY, and a few other income streams, the money to run the business (like virtually every business on the planet) comes from the consumer (or in the case of football clubs, the supporters - I think there's a difference).

If we don't put the money in, Pat can't get the players he wants, we don't get the success we want, things get worse and eventually we don't have anywhere else to go but down.

I don't think it's scaremongering, or a guilt trip, it's just the basic economics of the situation. Good players cost money, we don't have that money unless the support buy from the club in good numbers. It's really not a difficult message to digest, and as much as I agree that the product has been awful for 2 or 3 years now, and I agree that people are within their rights to choose not to renew or buy a new season ticket, and I recognise that some can't afford it etc, the bottom line is we all have the power to influence how good a team we have on the pitch this coming season. You can influence that positively by backing the club and getting a season ticket, or you can influence it negatively by not buying one and sniping at the club for the poor product that you're not paying for.

I want to buy a season ticket for Hibs TV. >:-)

[HibsMax]

Message from me to Hibernian Board - Year in year out many of us (many more in years past) have put their hard earned cash into the club. Year in year out you have failed us by your poor decision making and lack of budget for the playing squad. So now is the time for YOU to stand up and be counted and show us by signing some players of repute/excitement early in the window that you are going to focus on the team and make sure events such as 2012 Scottish Cup Final never happen again. Start investing and repaying the faith of the support then you might see that faith reciprocated.

Is this true? Previous posts I've read would suggest otherwise. It's not the amount of money that has been the issue, it's how it's been spent.

[Tom Hart RIP]

If you miss one game then you pay more per game than the PATG fan.
19 games for £405 works out at £21.35 per game.
Add on the 17% for the ticket company then it works out just under £25 per game.
ST prices are too high for what we get.

[Steve20]

Message from me to Hibernian Board - Year in year out many of us (many more in years past) have put their hard earned cash into the club. Year in year out you have failed us by your poor decision making and lack of budget for the playing squad. So now is the time for YOU to stand up and be counted and show us by signing some players of repute/excitement early in the window that you are going to focus on the team and make sure events such as 2012 Scottish Cup Final never happen again. Start investing and repaying the faith of the support then you might see that faith reciprocated.

Spot on.

[Saorsa]

the bottom line is we all have the power to influence how good a team we have on the pitch this coming season. You can influence that positively by backing the club and getting a season ticket, or you can influence it negatively by not buying one and sniping at the club for the poor product that you're not paying for.I've been positively influencing it for years when I was paying for it and a lot mair besides, hasnae done much good. And I'm not sniping about the poor product :wink: My decision has nothing tae do with the product and if I stop going tae the fitba I'll no be sniping about it on here or anywhere else.

[matty_f]

Good players might cost money, but hibs pay well over the odds for bad ones. I agree we need as many season tickets sold as possible, but i'm certainly not going to get worked up over perhaps selling slightly more season tickets than say Motherwell.

A decent manager gets more from his players, more from his team and a much better league position than our current team, who have been paid much more than those higher than we managed over the last 2 seasons.

If we only sell 5000 season tickets, well thats what we have sold. Although i have no idea how many we have sold, neither do you Matty, the club wont tell us?

Lets get the manager actually managing for a change, others manage it well enough.

I agree that over recent seasons other clubs have done better on smaller budgets, but then I'd recognise the fact that these teams haven't had to stretch their budgets to cover as many players as we've had to bring in, so they've been able to get more quality than quantity. We just ended up with mostly the latter.

Are you expecting Pat to build a team of players better than those in Motherwell's squad at the moment, practically from scratch on a tight budget?

And while I don't know the exact figure of season ticket holders, anyone could see from attendances last season that are season ticket sales must have been poor, and if we're knocking a couple of thousand off of that figure then it tells its own story. You don't have to be Carol Vorderman to work out that we're not doing well.


And is that really - in your opinion - what people who choose not to buy a ST get up to on a week-by-week basis?

Some do, some don't, IMHO.

[GreenCastle]

Message from me to Hibernian Board - Year in year out many of us (many more in years past) have put their hard earned cash into the club. Year in year out you have failed us by your poor decision making and lack of budget for the playing squad. So now is the time for YOU to stand up and be counted and show us by signing some players of repute/excitement early in the window that you are going to focus on the team and make sure events such as 2012 Scottish Cup Final never happen again. Start investing and repaying the faith of the support then you might see that faith reciprocated.

:aok:

Other teams in the league spend less and finish above us constantly.

Hibs pay more for season tickets than many other clubs and see little return - the one thing you can't or shouldn't criticise is the Hibs support / loyalty :agree:

[matty_f]

I smell an uber fan debate starting here:greengrin Quality!!

:greengrin:



I've been positively influencing it for years when I was paying for it and a lot mair besides, hasnae done much good. And I'm not sniping about the poor product :wink: My decision has nothing tae do with the product and if I stop going tae the fitba I'll no be sniping about it on here or anywhere else.

You do realise we're not always talking about you, don't you!? :greengrin

[Dalkeith]

I want to buy a season ticket for Hibs TV. >:-)

So do many others i know:greengrin

[GreenCastle]

If you miss one game then you pay more per game than the PATG fan.
19 games for £405 works out at £21.35 per game.
Add on the 17% for the ticket company then it works out just under £25 per game.
ST prices are too high for what we get.

Scottish Football is far too expensive and half the problem has been Rangers and Celtic trying to keep up with English League teams.

It's time the product became more value for money and the minimum expected is a group of players that look interested, are fit and give everything each game - while occasionally winning a home match.

Our home record for the last few seasons has been atrocious. However the Pars game at the end of the season showed what a close to full ER can be like and the atmosphere generated and help to the players.

[Saorsa]

You do realise we're not always talking about you, don't you!? :greengrinoh well http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies%202/sad11.gif





:greengrin

[Andy74]

Message from me to Hibernian Board - Year in year out many of us (many more in years past) have put their hard earned cash into the club. Year in year out you have failed us by your poor decision making and lack of budget for the playing squad. So now is the time for YOU to stand up and be counted and show us by signing some players of repute/excitement early in the window that you are going to focus on the team and make sure events such as 2012 Scottish Cup Final never happen again. Start investing and repaying the faith of the support then you might see that faith reciprocated.

Start investing what? Their own money?

What you are really saying is that you are happy for other season ticket holders to have their cash spent but you are going to sit back and let others pay for it and then maybe return when the investment from the season ticket holders has paid off.

How about some fans beleive what they have been telling Hibs - this is an ideal opportunity to invest and get ahead of certain clubs who will be struggling more than us. However, use your own money as there isn't a pot of other people's money to make this happen.

So you've invested before in a ticket? That's of no consequence now. The budget will be what comes in this year.

[hongkonghibee]

I want to buy a season ticket for Hibs TV. >:-)

:greengrin
Yes, when are we going to get an appeal on the front page of the official site for us International supporters to help the Club by buying season tickets for the Hibs TV live video for home matches next season? :confused:

[Steve20]

Start investing what? Their own money?

What you are really saying is that you are happy for other season ticket holders to have their cash spent but you are going to sit back and let others pay for it and then maybe return when the investment from the season ticket holders has paid off.

How about some fans beleive what they have been telling Hibs - this is an ideal opportunity to invest and get ahead of certain clubs who will be struggling more than us. However, use your own money as there isn't a pot of other people's money to make this happen.

So you've invested before in a ticket? That's of no consequence now. The budget will be what comes in this year.

And what happens if it's the same rubbish again next season? Do we just keep paying £400 every year and getting nothing in return.

The past few years have shown that's exactly what will happen. Why is season ticket money suddenly going to be spent well this time, when in the past it's been wasted on crap.

[Andy74]

It all sounds a bit desperate to me. He needs to sign a lot of players to replace the ones thet have left, so I would have thought that these replacements were all just about done and dusted and about to sign. This statement sounds like he needs more ST renewals in order to get more players in. I appreciate they dont want to spend money they dont have but in order to compete, a football club needs a team and for that it needs players. It would appear from this there is no list of players that are just about to be slotted in. Its starting to sound a lot like last years closed season. What makes this statement very worrying is that we need so many players in so many positions, were not just talking about needing money to make one or two signings. I for one thought that at some point the gaps would start getting filled. Now I'm not so sure :confused:

Where did you think the cash was going to come from to pay the players?

It's one thing identifying what you need and then getting out there to talk to them but at some stage the list of bodies you have cash to bring in stops when the number of season tickets ends.

We will still be able to get the players we are close to signing, it's a case of whether you can commit to, for example, six players or ten players, or if you have to adjust to one of the players you had in mind a level below what you might have been able to get.

[matty_f]

And what happens if it's the same rubbish again next season? Do we just keep paying £400 every year and getting nothing in return.

The past few years have shown that's exactly what will happen. Why is season ticket money suddenly going to be spent well this time, when in the past it's been wasted on crap.

You're right. Suppose we might as well pack it in now then.

[Emerald]

Good players might cost money, but hibs pay well over the odds for bad ones. I agree we need as many season tickets sold as possible, but i'm certainly not going to get worked up over perhaps selling slightly more season tickets than say Motherwell.

A decent manager gets more from his players, more from his team and a much better league position than our current team, who have been paid much more than those higher than we managed over the last 2 seasons.

If we only sell 5000 season tickets, well thats what we have sold. Although i have no idea how many we have sold, neither do you Matty, the club wont tell us?

Lets get the manager actually managing for a change, others manage it well enough.

Agree with this.

Hibs must have had a good idea what their budget was going to be and its up to the manager to get the most from it. Others with less budget are doing better. Good managers get more out of average players or can find cheaper players from their contacts or good scouting networks, sometimes for very little outlay. Whilst it would be much better to get as many ST's as possible, its now time for Hibs to show they have picked a manager that can get the most from his budget and his players. I dont think there is any point pleading on renewals. It would have been better if he had said that he was in the process of putting a good team together and urged people to renew so they can get to see it. It come over like there wont be a good team if the stay away fans dont renew. I've renewed but this statement would put me off if I hadn't to be honest.

[Steve20]

You're right. Suppose we might as well pack it in now then.

Or we could just put up with being served up the same rubbish year after year and just accepting it. Sounds great, I'll rush down to get a season ticket first thing tomorrow.

[matty_f]

Or we could just put up with being served up the same rubbish year after year and just accepting it. Sounds great, I'll rush down to get a season ticket first thing tomorrow.

Great. Well done you. :aok:

[hibbybrian]

:greengrin
Yes, when are we going to get an appeal on the front page of the official site for us International supporters to help the Club by buying season tickets for the Hibs TV live video for home matches next season? :confused:

It will probably be on the same page as the announcement that we've signed Messi and Ronaldo :greengrin

[bingo70]

If there's an improvement on the park and I'm enjoying myself at games again when I'm paying at the gate I might get a half season ticket at Christmas.

I'm not renewing out of blind loyalty again though and since last season other than begging statements basically blackmailing us they've done nothing to entice me back or make me change my mind.

Imo next season is going to be just like the last few as it appears we've learned no lessons from previous transfer windows.

[Andy74]

And what happens if it's the same rubbish again next season? Do we just keep paying £400 every year and getting nothing in return.

The past few years have shown that's exactly what will happen. Why is season ticket money suddenly going to be spent well this time, when in the past it's been wasted on crap.

Well, that's being a football fan eh? If everyone felt that way then there's no players at all in the door any season and you shut the doors.

I've been watching the same crap but buy the ticket because I want to watch Hibs and I want to believe each year that things will be good this time.

I think people forget that trhe club is US, it's not this thing that we look in on from the outside, it's us. You either think like that or you don't I suppose which is why we will always have a core of 5,000 fans or so and the rest will come on go depending on the product.

Still, it's generally those that come and go who can be the most critical about what they want while relying on the others to do the investing.

[matty_f]

Well, that's being a football fan eh? If everyone felt that way then there's no players at all in the door any season and you shut the doors.

I've been watching the same crap but buy the ticket because I want to watch Hibs and I want to believe each year that things will be good this time.

I think people forget that trhe club is US, it's not this thing that we look in on from the outside, it's us. You either think like that or you don't I suppose which is why we will always have a core of 5,000 fans or so and the rest will come on go depending on the product.

Still, it's generally those that come and go who can be the most critical about what they want while relying on the others to do the investing.

:agree:

Hibernian, **** off Midlothian, We'll Support You Evermore.*









*unless it's pish for a few years, in which case you can ram it.

[Beefster]

First of all, Hibs should have this information available on the website already. It's not a new scheme, they should have details by now.

Secondly, why shouldn't people expect a prompt response regarding this matter? You say it's a non-urgent e-mail but I disagree. It's not life-threatening (what e-mails to the club are?) and the club want more money for Pat....so I would say this is kinda important.

I won't get started on the website which is useless for finding information. If you want to know something about Hibs, don't use the website. I've moaned about this in the past but now just accept the situation because, frankly, I care less than I used to. Hibs are utterly ***** at certain things - the website is permanently in that list.

I agree with you that, ideally, answers should be given promptly and all the rest about good customer service. It appears that the club have cut the non-footballing staffing levels to the bone though and it tends to be senior management who respond to correspondence. Under the circumstances (newco, transfer window, training starting again in a week or so) and without getting into the rights and wrongs of the actions they've taken, I think it's fair to give them a little bit of leeway for not responding to a fairly trivial email (no offence to the original sender intended) within 48 hours.

[bingo70]

:agree:

Hibernian, **** off Midlothian, We'll Support You Evermore.*









*unless it's pish for a few years, in which case you can ram it.

People aren't saying ram it though.

Season tickets re no longer value for money so a lot of people will be like myself and plan to go but not renew. What the club is asking for is us to shell out In advance even though it may be more expensive on the premise they'll get it right this time and I think a lot of us are sceptical about them getting it right this time so are hanging fire with shelling out a lot of money for something we've not enjoyed.

[Steve20]

Well, that's being a football fan eh? If everyone felt that way then there's no players at all in the door any season and you shut the doors.

I've been watching the same crap but buy the ticket because I want to watch Hibs and I want to believe each year that things will be good this time.

I think people forget that trhe club is US, it's not this thing that we look in on from the outside, it's us. You either think like that or you don't I suppose which is why we will always have a core of 5,000 fans or so and the rest will come on go depending on the product.

Still, it's generally those that come and go who can be the most critical about what they want while relying on the others to do the investing.

Yep because I've relied on others investing for me every other year, right enough. I've been critical of Hibs recently because it's been awful. If I don't renew then I'd certainly not criticise what I'm not watching.

[HibbyAndy]

Regardless of how many ST we sell id imagine we still have a bigger budget than St.Mirren, ICT, Killie, St.johnstone,Ross county and the likes. So im wanting more than an 11th place finish next season.

[hongkonghibee]

It will probably be on the same page as the announcement that we've signed Messi and Ronaldo :greengrin
:greengrin

I understand that hibs main income will always be season ticket holders, and that if i was living in Scotland still I would buy one every season.
But since I live in hongkong, i can only get to 2 or 3 matches a season and cup finals . This costs me 1000-2000 pounds on travel expenses. As the cup final proved, we have a lot of overseas fans willing to spend that kind of money to support Hibs. Its an income stream the Club have failed to tap in to.

[Ray_]

Well, that's being a football fan eh? If everyone felt that way then there's no players at all in the door any season and you shut the doors.

I've been watching the same crap but buy the ticket because I want to watch Hibs and I want to believe each year that things will be good this time.

I think people forget that trhe club is US, it's not this thing that we look in on from the outside, it's us. You either think like that or you don't I suppose which is why we will always have a core of 5,000 fans or so and the rest will come on go depending on the product.

Still, it's generally those that come and go who can be the most critical about what they want while relying on the others to do the investing.

The club may be US, be we aren't the ones making crap decisions that cost the club millions of pounds and subjects us to the garbage passed as entertainment.

[Sammy7nil]

It's entirely typical at this time of year in my experience.

what is your experience ? :greengrin

[matty_f]

People aren't saying ram it though.

Season tickets re no longer value for money so a lot of people will be like myself and plan to go but not renew. What the club is asking for is us to shell out In advance even though it may be more expensive on the premise they'll get it right this time and I think a lot of us are sceptical about them getting it right this time so are hanging fire with shelling out a lot of money for something we've not enjoyed.

No, not everyone is saying ram it, I just used that expression to make the point.

The thing about shelling out in advance is that it needs to be that way.


we don't spend money that we don't have. Given the uncertainty surrounding the SPL for next season, we certainly can't spend what we don't have and simply cross our fingers in hope that it will come later.
My budget for next season is based on Season Tickets actually sold, not what we might sell. I know that I will get access to every single penny that comes into the club through new Season Ticket sales. So the commitment and faith of our supporters will determine just how much I have to spend on players ahead of the new season.

and


But we cannot make binding commitments to players hoping that there will be a decent walk up.


There is no other way around this. We need more guaranteed money into the club and that comes through season ticket sales.

Yes, it's a leap of faith.

Yes, we've not been good at getting the value over the last few years - though let's not forget it's also brought in Liam Miller, Anthony Stokes, Sol Bamba, Derek Riordan, Garry O'Connor, Ian Murray, so not all spent on pish either.

Yes, it's a lot of money and last season was in no way good value for it.

But as Andy said above that's what supporting your team is all about. Football's always about blind faith. really. Nobody is getting it right all the time, in sport it's almost impossible to consistently over a period of time be successful.

If too many folk, actually, if enough folk decide that they're going to wait and see if we're any good or not, then we're f*****. It'll never get better, we'll just get more and more stretched until folk are not getting season tickets because we're in the First Division. And what happens is that the folk who do renew year after year after year start to get more frustrated at getting less and less value for their investment and they eventually drift off as well.

[Andy74]

No, not everyone is saying ram it, I just used that expression to make the point.

The thing about shelling out in advance is that it needs to be that way.



and




There is no other way around this. We need more guaranteed money into the club and that comes through season ticket sales.

Yes, it's a leap of faith.

Yes, we've not been good at getting the value over the last few years - though let's not forget it's also brought in Liam Miller, Anthony Stokes, Sol Bamba, Derek Riordan, Garry O'Connor, Ian Murray, so not all spent on pish either.

Yes, it's a lot of money and last season was in no way good value for it.

But as Andy said above that's what supporting your team is all about. Football's always about blind faith. really. Nobody is getting it right all the time, in sport it's almost impossible to consistently over a period of time be successful.

If too many folk, actually, if enough folk decide that they're going to wait and see if we're any good or not, then we're f*****. It'll never get better, we'll just get more and more stretched until folk are not getting season tickets because we're in the First Division. And what happens is that the folk who do renew year after year after year start to get more frustrated at getting less and less value for their investment and they eventually drift off as well.

Yep, and at a watershed moment for football in Scotland we can decide whether we are going to harp on about how bad the last few years have been or whether we make a decision that Hibs are going to get a good amount of cash to spend to make sure that we have the best chance of it getting better.

[lyonhibs]

:agree:

Hibernian, **** off Midlothian, We'll Support You Evermore.*









*unless it's pish for a few years, in which case you can ram it.

Again, there are shades of grey in this debate re: season tickets "to buy or not to buy"

Such childish polarisation of the 2 sides of the argument don't really help, although the whole topic is entirely circular by it's nature. If folk want to buy a ST they will, and if they don't they won't.

One thing that strikes me about Fenlon's statement is the very salient point that his summer transfer budget is decided on cash in the bank from ST sold. Which begs the question, where does "walk-up" money go, as clearly it can't impact the summer transfer budget? Presumably it goes on player/staff wages, overheads, maintenance and the such.

All things that ST money can't be covering if it's all/mostly getting given to PF for summer spending. A football club can't really operate without a summer transfer budget and it certainly can't operate if it doesn't have some continous income streams on a week-by-week, month-by-month basis, then it can't meet its weekly/monthly obligations like wages/overheads etc (unless you are a morally vapid bunch of *****bags like HoMFC that is).

I may be massively simplifying things here, but as the money received from each "type" of ticket buyer - season ticket and walk up - goes towards 2 very different, but - almost - equally as important "pots", shouldn't there be a bit of recognition, at least amongst fans of this.

I guess it's not as "sexy" for the club to release statements saying "cheers to the walk-ups this month for paying the leccy bill" (and I realise that may not actually be the case), but the money that walk-ups pay goes into the club just as much as the money that ST holders pay up-front.

[yekimevol]

I got my season ticket for the ninth year in a row but i wish that i never did after the final. Im not going through another season like the last three. If we dont improve i dont think i can hack another season.

I.e. fix what is on the pitch and the fans will return and stay.

[Emerald]

No, not everyone is saying ram it, I just used that expression to make the point.

The thing about shelling out in advance is that it needs to be that way.



and




There is no other way around this. We need more guaranteed money into the club and that comes through season ticket sales.

Yes, it's a leap of faith.

Yes, we've not been good at getting the value over the last few years - though let's not forget it's also brought in Liam Miller, Anthony Stokes, Sol Bamba, Derek Riordan, Garry O'Connor, Ian Murray, so not all spent on pish either.

Yes, it's a lot of money and last season was in no way good value for it.

But as Andy said above that's what supporting your team is all about. Football's always about blind faith. really. Nobody is getting it right all the time, in sport it's almost impossible to consistently over a period of time be successful.

If too many folk, actually, if enough folk decide that they're going to wait and see if we're any good or not, then we're f*****. It'll never get better, we'll just get more and more stretched until folk are not getting season tickets because we're in the First Division. And what happens is that the folk who do renew year after year after year start to get more frustrated at getting less and less value for their investment and they eventually drift off as well.

But then Dundee Utd, St Mirren, St Johnstone, Motherwell etc. etc. will be more f***** than us as they have even less ST holders. We should still be able to finish above them if this is the case. Trouble is, we are failing to manage the budget we have when others do much better, year after year. I dont think selling another 1500 season tickets will play any part in how the team will perform next season to be honest. That will hinge on what the manager does with the hand he has been dealt.

[Sammy7nil]

This is the same plea year after year, it will not work this time.
I feel for Pat he has not brought us here but fans are no longer willing to put up with the dross we have watched for 3 - 4 years. Pat will have to work on a tight budget this will produce dour defensive performances and will not tempt fans back. It is the chicken and the egg story but no one is buying before seeing both.

[matty_f]

Again, there are shades of grey in this debate re: season tickets "to buy or not to buy"

Such childish polarisation of the 2 sides of the argument don't really help, although the whole topic is entirely circular by it's nature. If folk want to buy a ST they will, and if they don't they won't.

One thing that strikes me about Fenlon's statement is the very salient point that his summer transfer budget is decided on cash in the bank from ST sold. Which begs the question, where does "walk-up" money go, as clearly it can't impact the summer transfer budget? Presumably it goes on player/staff wages, overheads, maintenance and the such.

All things that ST money can't be covering if it's all/mostly getting given to PF for summer spending. A football club can't really operate without a summer transfer budget and it certainly can't operate if it doesn't have some continous income streams on a week-by-week, month-by-month basis, then it can't meet its weekly/monthly obligations like wages/overheads etc (unless you are a morally vapid bunch of *****bags like HoMFC that is).

I may be massively simplifying things here, but as the money received from each "type" of ticket buyer - season ticket and walk up - goes towards 2 very different, but - almost - equally as important "pots", shouldn't there be a bit of recognition, at least amongst fans of this.

I guess it's not as "sexy" for the club to release statements saying "cheers to the walk-ups this month for paying the leccy bill" (and I realise that may not actually be the case), but the money that walk-ups pay goes into the club just as much as the money that ST holders pay up-front.

Fenlon says he can't use the walk-up money to make signings because we don't know how much it will be. We can't offer a player terms on how many fans might come. We can offer it on guaranteed income, which is the season ticket money, which is why it is so vital that the support backs the club.

FFS, we finished 11th last season and avoided relegation on the second last day of the season. We're seeing a league without Rangers which impacts income... if ever there was a time to put money into the club to improve things, it's NOW.

I do have a very simplistic view of it, for me you've either put the money into the player budget by buying a season ticket, or you haven't. The more people that have, the better we are likely to be. I understand it's not a guarantee, right enough, because teams have spent much more than Hibs and failed, but generally speaking I know that we're unlikely to improve if the playing budget drops from the one that funded a team finishing second bottom.

[bingo70]

If the board are so sure it'll be different this season why can't we overspend this year to stop the rot and arrest the slide and then make cut backs when we've got fans back on side and in a better position to pay back debts.

Fenlon says there we're ambitious, I've not seen any evidence of that, got a great stadium but making no attempt to speculate on the squad in order to try and fill it, they're hoping, begging and keeping everything crossed blind faith will get the stadium filled, that's not ambition in my opinion.

[matty_f]

But then Dundee Utd, St Mirren, St Johnstone, Motherwell etc. etc. will be more f***** than us as they have even less ST holders. We should still be able to finish above them if this is the case. Trouble is, we are failing to manage the budget we have when others do much better, year after year. I dont think selling another 1500 season tickets will play any part in how the team will perform next season to be honest. That will hinge on what the manager does with the hand he has been dealt.

Again, Motherwell, St Johnstone, Dundee Utd have not had to do anywhere near to the rebuilding job we've done over consecutive transfer windows in recent seasons. Their smaller budgets have been spent on fewer players. Quality, not quantity. We've gone the other way as the board have tried to allow successive managers to replace a high number of sub-standard players. Quantity, not quality.

Fenlon needs enough money to sign players that would get a start in Motherwell's team, or United's, or St Mirren's... taking a budget that is not that much more than those clubs' and trying to put together a whole side, is nigh on impossible, regardless of the manager.

[R'Albin]

"I need your help to reshape and rebuild the squad"

What a great line that is. It kind of sums up the message as a whole which comes across as really believeable and geniune.

[Mikeystewart]

That figure only tells us how many of last seasons ST holders didnae renew, nae mention of how many new ST holders bought for a cup final ticket. I doubt we're down that number in total. They always seem tae be painting the worst picture, why no give us all the figures for a change instead of just telling us the bits they want.

Because that would be bad marketing :wink:

[lyonhibs]

Fenlon says he can't use the walk-up money to make signings because we don't know how much it will be. We can't offer a player terms on how many fans might come. We can offer it on guaranteed income, which is the season ticket money, which is why it is so vital that the support backs the club.

I agree. That was the main point of my previous post. Income from walk-ups will - presumably - go towards paying equally vital, yet much more "mundane" day-to-day, month-to-month costs of running a club. We will always have a certain number of walk-ups, regardless of how great or gash we are. People work, people can't afford £400 up front, people have other commitments on some Saturdays etc etc, and I just think that the financial contribution of walk-ups as a group is overlooked/underappreciated by some on here/fans in general.

FFS, we finished 11th last season and avoided relegation on the second last day of the season. We're seeing a league without Rangers which impacts income... if ever there was a time to put money into the club to improve things, it's NOW.

I do have a very simplistic view of it, for me you've either put the money into the player budget by buying a season ticket, or you haven't. The more people that have, the better we are likely to be. I understand it's not a guarantee, right enough, because teams have spent much more than Hibs and failed, but generally speaking I know that we're unlikely to improve if the playing budget drops from the one that funded a team finishing second bottom.

And others have spent a lot less (or at least to the untrained eye) than Hibs and done a lot better, which is probably what grates most with Hibs fans. If we were mediocre, but Kilmarnock, St Mirren, ICT and so on were utter pish and beneath us in the league, then that would make our own mediocrity easier to swallow.

However, in light of the reality that they were all considerably better than us last season, a reduced playing budget alone - which looks like what PF will be faced with this season - cannot solely be blamed if our appalling form, especially at home, continues.

I agree with your post in principle though.

[steakbake]

For me it's basic economics. If I don't go to all the games, a season ticket becomes uneconomical. Sometimes I don't want to go to the footie cos I have other stuff on.

That and I'm waiting for the club to make some moves. What am I buying here; a ticket to see rejuvenated football with good quality turning out in green and white or more of the same? So many false dawns at HFC, this time I'm going to wait to see if the sun has come up.

[Captain Trips]

There is no chicken and egg people do not have the money to spend on what has been bad football/results. People will pay money if the odd bad game here and there is what happens. Unfortunatly we have been a team of the odd good game once in a while and that has stopped many.

The facts are rallying calls will not bring in fans only Hibs winning, so the onus is on the club to make that happen by making all the right decisions as it is PF to make all the right decisions.

We can argue all night long folk will not go on the off chance we play well no matter what the club asks us to do, Hibs will need to do something to bring in the punters wether that is right or wrong IMO those are the facts.

[Emerald]

Again, Motherwell, St Johnstone, Dundee Utd have not had to do anywhere near to the rebuilding job we've done over consecutive transfer windows in recent seasons. Their smaller budgets have been spent on fewer players. Quality, not quantity. We've gone the other way as the board have tried to allow successive managers to replace a high number of sub-standard players. Quantity, not quality.
When managers start pleading for punters to come
Fenlon needs enough money to sign players that would get a start in Motherwell's team, or United's, or St Mirren's... taking a budget that is not that much more than those clubs' and trying to put together a whole side, is nigh on impossible, regardless of the manager.

Ok, but if we manage to sell another 2500 just to get us up to last years figure, then these fans are in theory paying to see another 11th place season. I agree that the more ST we sell the better, my argument is that when they do get more cash in from increased sales they waste it, unlike others mentioned. The manager must get on with making the team better with the budget he has, it sounds like he's getting his excuses in early by coming out with this sort of thing. Leave the pleading to the board, let them persuade people to come back, the manager should have faith in his ability to make a good team from his dealings regardless of the cost, it will after all be more than most have in the SPL.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This debate hasnt got much to do with me really.

I buy a season ticket every year because I want to watch / support Hibs. What I get for my money is a chance to say I was there trying to support my team and we were brilliant / no bad / rubbish / totally dire ..... take yer pick.

How good or bad Hibs are from season to season isnt a factor in whether I buy a ticket or not. I'm a Hibby and what I want to do is support and watch my team. Only lack of money would stop me getting a season ticket and I'm lucky that at the moment I can afford a ticket.

Dont get me wrong .... I will bitch and whine like mental next season ( just like last season ) if Hibs are as rank as they have been for the last 3 years, but I'll do it from the stands first, before I do it on here or in the pub.

It makes me sad to read on here people saying they wont be buying a season ticket. Not because it might screw Fenlons budget, but simply because I want to see as many people in ER on a Saturday as possible and empty seats are a sad thing in any football ground.

As far as the statement from Hibs today goes... I have to admit that its the first indication from Hibs that we might not be seeing the players we want for next season .... which is a pity.

There is no such thing as a successful football club which relies purely on ST sales to build a squad good enough to win cups and titles. As far as I know it is also the job of the board to bring in enough money from other avenues to build a decent squad. If they dont agree with that then perhaps its time we had another board who are capable of doing that.


Anyway ..... GGTTH

[WHUHibs]

Folk maybe interpreted the message differently Andy, but I've seen Scoopyboy's post on the subject and (having sat right next to Scoopyboy at the time). Scott Lindsay said we were about 2000 season ticket renewals down. Scoopyboy asked if new sales had offset that, and Scott looked him in the eye and said we were down about 2000.

To me, I interpreted that (as I think Scoopyboy did) as being that the total figure was down 2000 on last year's figures. He wasn't distinguishing between renewals and new season ticket sales.

Matty, the fact we are 2000 down or not now is irrelevant, we simply don't have enough cash to get players regardless.

Any new initiative to bring additional income streams will not be in place to influence this current transfer window and that's worrying and if we mange to generate more money then the january window will be available. However, we all know that transfer then rarely work.

I refused to buy one last year and this season I have bought one with my son knowing we will miss quite a few games as he plays under 17s on a Saturday now. However, I'm willing to give Fenlon a chance and have done my bit. Equally for some reason I am excited about this season without newco. And if Fenton is as good as I hope then we might be smiling again.


I know the board read message boards so a quick way is to get a finance scheme in place with our bank, we get cash up front and help get people to invest over 6 monthly payments if they can afford it. Based on projections Fenton can bring is some better quality.

I really hope that we can get finance in now to build a team....

[MUPPET]

I am one of the 2500 who decided to wait and see what will happen over the summer. Every year until now I have paid my season ticket right at the start of the summer. However, the last few years we have seen nothing but rubbish on the pitch, which is why I chose to wait. You can't expect everyone to pay £400 in blind faith every summer.

This

[WHUHibs]

This debate hasnt got much to do with me really.

I buy a season ticket every year because I want to watch / support Hibs. What I get for my money is a chance to say I was there trying to support my team and we were brilliant / no bad / rubbish / totally dire ..... take yer pick.

How good or bad Hibs are from season to season isnt a factor in whether I buy a ticket or not. I'm a Hibby and what I want to do is support and watch my team. Only lack of money would stop me getting a season ticket and I'm lucky that at the moment I can afford a ticket.

Dont get me wrong .... I will bitch and whine like mental next season ( just like last season ) if Hibs are as rank as they have been for the last 3 years, but I'll do it from the stands first, before I do it on here or in the pub.

It makes me sad to read on here people saying they wont be buying a season ticket. Not because it might screw Fenlons budget, but simply because I want to see as many people in ER on a Saturday as possible and empty seats are a sad thing in any football ground.

As far as the statement from Hibs today goes... I have to admit that its the first indication from Hibs that we might not be seeing the players we want for next season .... which is a pity.

There is no such thing as a successful football club which relies purely on ST sales to build a squad good enough to win cups and titles. As far as I know it is also the job of the board to bring in enough money from other avenues to build a decent squad. If they dont agree with that then perhaps its time we had another board who are capable of doing that.


Anyway ..... GGTTH

:top marks

[Baldy Foghorn]

This debate hasnt got much to do with me really.

I buy a season ticket every year because I want to watch / support Hibs. What I get for my money is a chance to say I was there trying to support my team and we were brilliant / no bad / rubbish / totally dire ..... take yer pick.

How good or bad Hibs are from season to season isnt a factor in whether I buy a ticket or not. I'm a Hibby and what I want to do is support and watch my team. Only lack of money would stop me getting a season ticket and I'm lucky that at the moment I can afford a ticket.

Dont get me wrong .... I will bitch and whine like mental next season ( just like last season ) if Hibs are as rank as they have been for the last 3 years, but I'll do it from the stands first, before I do it on here or in the pub.

It makes me sad to read on here people saying they wont be buying a season ticket. Not because it might screw Fenlons budget, but simply because I want to see as many people in ER on a Saturday as possible and empty seats are a sad thing in any football ground.

As far as the statement from Hibs today goes... I have to admit that its the first indication from Hibs that we might not be seeing the players we want for next season .... which is a pity.

There is no such thing as a successful football club which relies purely on ST sales to build a squad good enough to win cups and titles. As far as I know it is also the job of the board to bring in enough money from other avenues to build a decent squad. If they dont agree with that then perhaps its time we had another board who are capable of doing that.


Anyway ..... GGTTH

Best post I have read on this topic, which echos my own sentiments....

As for the last paragraph, I firmly believe this Season is the last chance for our board of director's, things have to start changing on the field for the better....We all want to see a winning team on the park, for another season to occur like the previous two, will be the final straw for a number of supporter's...If the Board allows another poor season, and more lost fans to happen would be suicidal.

[blackpoolhibs]

What happens to the money we get from walk up fans?

[Col2]

I am one of the 2500 who decided to wait and see what will happen over the summer. Every year until now I have paid my season ticket right at the start of the summer. However, the last few years we have seen nothing but rubbish on the pitch, which is why I chose to wait. You can't expect everyone to pay £400 in blind faith every summer.

Spot on. Exactly mirrors my position. I do feel guilty and not overly comfortable especially given need for finances and strong Newco stance by club. However I am not ready to renew until I see some real statements of intent re quality signings.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

the usual emotional blackmail speech conducted by the board for PF to say, never mind bloody season tickets lets get the friggin biscuit tin opened!

FFS!

[Baldy Foghorn]

the usual emotional blackmail speech conducted by the board for PF to say, never mind bloody season tickets lets get the friggin biscuit tin opened!

FFS!

We were told a fortnight ago, by Scott Lindsay, that only money generated from season ticket sales would be spent by PF....Astounded, disappointed and annoyed that this is Hibs strategy after two of the worst consecutive seasons that I can remember...

[Barney McGrew]

What happens to the money we get from walk up fans?

I'm guessing it will be used for other running costs, and if we get more than budgeted for then it would be used against any losses we've incurred or in the January window.

People often ask for better communication and more transparency from the club and I think this is a fairly frank statement from Hibs - they haven't sold as many seasons as they'd hoped/wanted and therefore the playing budget will suffer and the quality and number of players we can bring in is going to be reduced.

Whether folk like to accept it or not, it is a real chicken and egg scenario. I can totally understand people's reasons for not renewing given the pish we've had to put up with but the situation isn't going to improve without the funds to buy decent players.

[Hermit Crab]

2500 non renewals. That's a lot.



TBH you cant really blame people for not renewing.

[Baldy Foghorn]

TBH you cant really blame people for not renewing.

I know someone who has been to every match for 35 years, home away, friendlies abroad etc, who is not going back....The Final was his tipping point, and when guys like him walk away, Hibs have real problems....

[Dashing Bob S]

So boring to hear the same guff trotted out every year. Yes, we know about the cash dynamics, but the fact is that we've been chronically mismanaged on the park for the last three years. Other clubs on fewer resources than us seem to manage to put winning teams together in what is a very mediocre league. Until the fans see some improvement many of them will not renew, its as simple as that. I myself have renewed my ST as I believe that the clubs who stood against cheating, corrupt Hun theft deserve the support of their fans.

Scottish football is still, and probably will remain, for some time, absolutely dire, but at least there's a willingness to tackle things and move on.

Hibs board and management should man up and get on with the job instead of whingeing about fans not playing their part.

[Andy74]

We were told a fortnight ago, by Scott Lindsay, that only money generated from season ticket sales would be spent by PF....Astounded, disappointed and annoyed that this is Hibs strategy after two of the worst consecutive seasons that I can remember...

And the alternative strategy is to get money from where? Even our own fans won't pay up so who will ?

[Col2]

I'm in if and it's a big IF Hibs show a statement of intent. Yes I understand it that it's chicken and egg but as others have pointed out, clubs in a worse position and less turnover seem to be buying players of the right quality.

So Hibs - sign three players, a spine to the team in a defender with leadership and skill, a midfielder who can control the midfield or can create and a striker - goalscorer or target man. Three players with pedigree, promise and increases quality. Do that Hibs and I am in, and I bet a few others will be as well.

Action not words.

[Baldy Foghorn]

And the alternative strategy is to get money from where? Even our own fans won't pay up so who will ?

Thats the job of the Director's surely.......(And our extremely flush owner)

[scoopyboy]

I know someone who has been to every match for 35 years, home away, friendlies abroad etc, who is not going back....The Final was his tipping point, and when guys like him walk away, Hibs have real problems....

Someone who attends that many matches over that long a period will be back, he's just having a wee break.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Someone who attends that many matches over that long a period will be back, he's just having a wee break.

Not so sure Jock, spoke to him at weekend, and he is going to visit every ground in Britain instead, one kick in the hee haws too many for him

[Brooster]

I know someone who has been to every match for 35 years, home away, friendlies abroad etc, who is not going back....The Final was his tipping point, and when guys like him walk away, Hibs have real problems....

Is he Welsh? :wink:

[Baldy Foghorn]

And the alternative strategy is to get money from where? Even our own fans won't pay up so who will ?

I can fully understand fans not getting ST's.....After such abject failure at all levels, why would this season be any different?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Is he Welsh? :wink:

No mate, you will know him though

[scoopyboy]

Not so sure Jock, spoke to him at weekend, and he is going to visit every ground in Britain instead, one kick in the hee haws too many for him

In this instance Brockie I hope I'm right and you are wrong, we don't want to lose guys like that.

I am basing it solely on the fact he is saying this in the aftermath of the final and its now the close season.

Once the competative stuff kicks in he might realise he misses the kicks in the hee haws and returns.

I know a couple of guys who were going to jack after the final, I replied come back and tell me that in a month's time.

They are going back.

I would never say I'm not going back because I know damn fine I always will, its a disease I tell ya.

[BEEJ]

The thing about shelling out in advance is that it needs to be that way.


"My budget for next season is based on Season Tickets actually sold, not what we might sell.

But we cannot make binding commitments to players hoping that there will be a decent walk up."

There is no other way around this. We need more guaranteed money into the club and that comes through season ticket sales.


One thing that strikes me about Fenlon's statement is the very salient point that his summer transfer budget is decided on cash in the bank from ST sold. Which begs the question, where does "walk-up" money go, as clearly it can't impact the summer transfer budget? Presumably it goes on player/staff wages, overheads, maintenance and the such.
It used to be the case that ALL ticket sales paid for the annual player budget.

"Where did you read that?!" From RP - here, in an article from four years ago, in the final couple of paragraphs:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/i-won-t-risk-our-future-insists-petrie-1-1322025


"The annual income provided by supporters through purchasing a season ticket or by attending matches on a game-by-game basis, is vital to the well-being of the club and maintaining the amount the club can spend on the team."

This was also published on the club website (22 June 2007).

In their planning of the annual player Budget the Board used to make some allowance for walk-up sales and factor those in so as to arrive at the overall figure. All the other things were paid for by the sponsorship deals, merchandise sales etc etc. Perhaps that policy has now changed - no transfer fee income to utilise for starters.

But it has not always been done this way. Maybe its the new policy in the light of the current traumatic events surrounding the SPL. Certainly today's item would imply that is the reason.


Fenlon says he can't use the walk-up money to make signings because we don't know how much it will be. We can't offer a player terms on how many fans might come. We can offer it on guaranteed income, which is the season ticket money, which is why it is so vital that the support backs the club.
We used to.


If the board are so sure it'll be different this season why can't we overspend this year to stop the rot and arrest the slide and then make cut backs when we've got fans back on side and in a better position to pay back debts.
The Board is unwilling to take on the risk that sufficient walk-up sales will materialise during the course of the season to pay for the shortfall that they would have to meet at the start of the season.

Instead the supporters have to take on the risk - except, as supporters, we're not meant to see it in those terms.

[Baldy Foghorn]

In this instance Brockie I hope I'm right and you are wrong, we don't want to lose guys like that.

I am basing it solely on the fact he is saying this in the aftermath of the final and its now the close season.

Once the competative stuff kicks in he might realise he misses the kicks in the hee haws and returns.

I know a couple of guys who were going to jack after the final, I replied come back and tell me that in a month's time.

They are going back.

I would never say I'm not going back because I know damn fine I always will, its a disease I tell ya.

He told me last season he wasn't enjoying following the Club and was talking of it then. He has booked trains etc for the opening weekend when we are at Dundee Utd, he is off to watch an English match. Think he will remain true to his word and beliefs and not come back unfortunately....

[Hibby70]

One of main issues we have is that there is very very little incentive to buy a season ticket these days. Ground will never sell out, you dont save much if anything and you might get stuck next to a complete trumpet for a whole season.

Me - I'm just fed up coming home and thinking my precious time at the weekend would have been more enjoyable elsewhere. I'll be pay at the gate this season from the off. If its the same as last few years I'll probably stop going, if its good to watch I'll get a half season if available.

[scoopyboy]

He told me last season he wasn't enjoying following the Club and was talking of it then. He has booked trains etc for the opening weekend when we are at Dundee Utd, he is off to watch an English match. Think he will remain true to his word and beliefs and not come back unfortunately....

As I said earlier he maybe needs a wee break from Hibs.

What he is doing sounds like fun but after 35 years he must at least wonder how we are getting on.

Time will tell I suppose.

[blackpoolhibs]

If we had sold the same amount of season tickets as last season, or even the season before? We'd still be in this mess, no players, little hope after that cup final, but a bit more money to spend/waste whatever your view is?

The facts are we have not, and wont get near it.

Thats down to the boards inability to find a decent manager, and also back the last one when Stevie Wonder could see he was hopeless, then continue to back him when it was clear he would rather platt fog than manage Hibs.

We have also had interviews and press releases from the board, admitting they had made mistakes, quoting previous incumbents, and the Calderwood fiasco.

It cant be any surprise to them sales are down, and it wont be everyones opinion, but i believe because of how this board has managed our club, they are the reason we are in this mess.

Its about time you found some money, and we all know that means asking STF to put his hand in his pocket, but imo our crowds wont grow while we are watching pish, a lot have just had enough, who can blame them?

So unless Fenlon starts managing the club properly, with the same budget as the likes of Motherwell and Killie, we will be seeing more of this pish. These rallying calls can only be used so often, folk wont be fooled any more.

[Tyler Durden]

Fenlon says he can't use the walk-up money to make signings because we don't know how much it will be. We can't offer a player terms on how many fans might come. We can offer it on guaranteed income, which is the season ticket money, which is why it is so vital that the support backs the club.

FFS, we finished 11th last season and avoided relegation on the second last day of the season. We're seeing a league without Rangers which impacts income... if ever there was a time to put money into the club to improve things, it's NOW.

I do have a very simplistic view of it, for me you've either put the money into the player budget by buying a season ticket, or you haven't. The more people that have, the better we are likely to be. I understand it's not a guarantee, right enough, because teams have spent much more than Hibs and failed, but generally speaking I know that we're unlikely to improve if the playing budget drops from the one that funded a team finishing second bottom.

Firstly, on the part I've highlighted, the last few years have shown that this too often isn't the case. Others have spent far less than Hibs and enjoyed more success. The question should be can Fenlon make the most of the resources he has. He's unlucky that he is paying for the mistakes of his predecessors (and the board) but fans are voting with their feet as its the only option available to register your discontent.

The board have basically hung Fenlon out to dry and a large part of this stems back to their pathetic season ticket plan. The board are in place as custodians/guardians of the club as they should be qualified individuals who can maximise our revenues and drive the club forward. Their product offering for STs was basically to throw in a few freebies and hope the usual folk renew.

Especially in the current climate they missed a huge opportunity to look at things differently. To list just a few options
-monthly membership scheme via direct debit with say a 2/3 month cancellation notice period
-quarter/half season tickets for first part/half of season

We have a huge database of customers, why not do some actual research and ask fans whether they'd be interested in these options? But no, the club give the impression that you either commit to a full season up front or they don't want your money. Fenlons quote that we can only commit on the basis of money in the bank is naive and simplistic IMO. Every trading business must work with projections and plan and adjust accordingly. Our financial modelling seems to be based on 7,000 odd fans blindly renewing and when this doesnt happen Hibs are lost. What are the board actually contributing intellectually, never mind financially?

The marketing of STs has been largely rejected and the contingency plan is basically to beg, first Petrie and now Fenlon. And the fans are treated like children and not even given the actual numbers.

It's very difficult to have any faith in these people.

[trev the hat]

The timing of this statement suggests imminent signings IMO

[Weir7]

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20120627/a-message-to-all-hibernian-supporters_2262950_2561148

Same old rubbish - only difference is it isn't in Rod's name. Petrie and Farmer need to understand the game is up. Punters have had enough off watch dross for the last 5 years.

Petrie's mis management is why we are in this position. The board need replaced. We need leadership and a new strategy.

A new leader to unite the Club and fans.

I've renewed but it is just out of habit. I wish I had the conviction like the rest of the boys that haven't renewed. To tell Farmer enough is enough.

[RickyS]

If we had sold the same amount of season tickets as last season, or even the season before? We'd still be in this mess, no players, little hope after that cup final, but a bit more money to spend/waste whatever your view is?

The facts are we have not, and wont get near it.

Thats down to the boards inability to find a decent manager, and also back the last one when Stevie Wonder could see he was hopeless, then continue to back him when it was clear he would rather platt fog than manage Hibs.

We have also had interviews and press releases from the board, admitting they had made mistakes, quoting previous incumbents, and the Calderwood fiasco.

It cant be any surprise to them sales are down, and it wont be everyones opinion, but i believe because of how this board has managed our club, they are the reason we are in this mess.

Its about time you found some money, and we all know that means asking STF to put his hand in his pocket, but imo our crowds wont grow while we are watching pish, a lot have just had enough, who can blame them?

So unless Fenlon starts managing the club properly, with the same budget as the likes of Motherwell and Killie, we will be seeing more of this pish. These rallying calls can only be used so often, folk wont be fooled any more.


:top marks this

[scoopyboy]

Same old rubbish - only difference is it isn't in Rod's name. Petrie and Farmer need to understand the game is up. Punters have had enough off watch dross for the last 5 years.

Petrie's mis management is why we are in this position. The board need replaced. We need leadership and a new strategy.

A new leader to unite the Club and fans.

I've renewed but it is just out of habit. I wish I had the conviction like the rest of the boys that haven't renewed. To tell Farmer enough is enough.

First thing I thought of as well when I read it.

No way has PF written that, read over it perhaps before putting his name to it but no way was he the author. IMO of course.

[truehibernian]

First thing I thought of as well when I read it.

No way has PF written that, read over it perhaps before putting his name to it but no way was he the author. IMO of course.

If that's the case scoopy then it's not so much #summerofchange but more #seasonofsameold.

My love of Hibs means I'll always head along and support the boys. Can fully understand why folk are turning their back, but for me it's in the veins. East of Scotland Shield or Scottish Cup Final.....can't get the Hibs oot the system I'm afraid.

[Sammy7nil]

Someone who attends that many matches over that long a period will be back, he's just having a wee break.

Not so I am afraid, I did not renew last year after so many years I cannot remember certainly well over 20 and going regularly for 30 odd years.
Many friends who were long term ST holders gave up the year before that, none are planning to go back.

You find different things to do you pick odd games and the desire to go to games drifts away.

Hibs and Scottish football are on a real downward spiral and the board need to find a way to get a team on the park or it will get worse before or if it gets better.

[The_Todd]

I just can't justify the £405 outlay if I'm being brutally honest. That's an insane amount of money for an SPL season ticket. You can get cheaper STs at Newcastle FFS!

I go to the games I can afford to, and if that makes me a lesser fan then maybe I'll just not bother.

[Mark79]

Our last game played was a 5-1 humping in a national final and whilst buying tickets to that they took the opportunity to get season tickets out of it. Now two months on they have lost countless 1st teamers and signed one average spl player so far. Not exactly the kind of stuff that makes me want to watch another season of that guff.

The last few years we have bought our season tickets expecting some form of investment in the team but to be let down by with some of the worst footballers going.

About time they spent the cash before we did. At least we would have an idea how serious the club were taking next season.

[Beefster]

I see their capacity for inspiring the support hasn't improved since Hyland left.

New season, new attitude, same old *****.

[Judas Iscariot]

Why is it that teams like Motherwell, Dundee United, St Johnstone, ICT etc are able to out performing us on a consistent basis when they have far fewer ST holders than us and lower attendences therefore have less disposible income to be used on the on field product?!

[scoopyboy]

Not so I am afraid, I did not renew last year after so many years I cannot remember certainly well over 20 and going regularly for 30 odd years.
Many friends who were long term ST holders gave up the year before that, none are planning to go back.

You find different things to do you pick odd games and the desire to go to games drifts away.

Hibs and Scottish football are on a real downward spiral and the board need to find a way to get a team on the park or it will get worse before or if it gets better.

I am in a no win position here, as obviously you know yourself and your mates a lot better than I do.

Would it not be the case however that if Hibs got back to being a good team playing good football that you guys might be tempted back?

I had a similar scenario with bowling, played outdoor from 1972 and then indoor from 1979. Basically 14 months a year (one month overlap at either end of the season) for 26 years until I stopped the outdoor after 2005 season. Still play indoors and still really enjoy it but years ago would never have believed I could jack in the outdoor. Thing is I don't miss it at all and not sure I will ever go back.

I think with these things you may be won back early doors but the longer it goes on the less likely you are to return.

[The Green Goblin]

So boring to hear the same guff trotted out every year. Yes, we know about the cash dynamics, but the fact is that we've been chronically mismanaged on the park for the last three years. Other clubs on fewer resources than us seem to manage to put winning teams together in what is a very mediocre league. Until the fans see some improvement many of them will not renew, its as simple as that. I myself have renewed my ST as I believe that the clubs who stood against cheating, corrupt Hun theft deserve the support of their fans.

Scottish football is still, and probably will remain, for some time, absolutely dire, but at least there's a willingness to tackle things and move on.

Hibs board and management should man up and get on with the job instead of whingeing about fans not playing their part.

You typed my thoughts - word for word.

[lord bunberry]

I just can't justify the £405 outlay if I'm being brutally honest. That's an insane amount of money for an SPL season ticket. You can get cheaper STs at Newcastle FFS!

I go to the games I can afford to, and if that makes me a lesser fan then maybe I'll just not bother.

I don't think anyone is suggesting someone who can't afford a season ticket is a lesser fan its the people who have the means to buy one but choose not to.

[scoopyboy]

Why is it that teams like Motherwell, Dundee United, St Johnstone, ICT etc are able to out performing us on a consistent basis when they have far fewer ST holders than us and lower attendences therefore have less disposible income to be used on the on field product?!

They spend their money wisely, we blow it.

Make no mistake we pay more than them in terms of total wage bill but they tend to get value for money these days, we don't.

[Beefster]

I don't think anyone is suggesting someone who can't afford a season ticket is a lesser fan its the people who have the means to buy one but choose not to.

If the club are suggesting that (I don't think they are), they should be very careful about permanently alienating large swathes of their customer base (i.e. 2,000 folk).

[Col2]

The timing of this statement suggests imminent signings IMO

Yup. Would need to be over next few days to get max impact.

[lord bunberry]

If the club are suggesting that (I don't think they are), they should be very careful about permanently alienating large swathes of their customer base (i.e. 2,000 folk).

I don't think they are either but some posters on here were making that suggestion

[Judas Iscariot]

They spend their money wisely, we blow it.

Make no mistake we pay more than them in terms of total wage bill but they tend to get value for money these days, we don't.

I know that Jock, was being a tad pedantic!

Who's fault is it that the club blow the cash and don't spend it wisely? The fans? Certainly not!

The board are ultimately at fault for this by appointing a succession of terrible managers, it's about time THEY blinked 1st to make up for THEIR awful workmanship rather than bringing out the begging bowl and putting back on the boot of the fans an trying to guilt us into buying ST's as if it's OUR fault we're in this state and have been for over 5 years...

[Alfred E Newman]

Sadly I am one of the 2500. I walked out of Hampden and vowed that I would not be back at Easter Road till there was a team on the park worth watching or at least some signs that Fenlon was capable of building a decent side. No noises coming out of Easter Road so far have given me any cause for optimism.

[scoopyboy]

I know that Jock, was being a tad pedantic!
Who's fault is it that the club blow the cash and don't spend it wisely? The fans? Certainly not!

The board are ultimately at fault for this by appointing a succession of terrible managers, it's about time THEY blinked 1st to make up for THEIR awful workmanship rather than bringing out the begging bowl and putting back on the boot of the fans an trying to guilt us into buying ST's as if it's OUR fault we're in this state and have been for over 5 years...

Oops!!

I agree not the fans and the board have to accept responsibility.

Unlike others though I don't have much gripe in what we spend (although would like it to be more) its the fact that they employ managers that don't have a clue what to do with it.

They appoint the managers, therefore their fault in my eyes.

[Weir7]

Sadly I am one of the 2500. I walked out of Hampden and vowed that I would not be back at Easter Road till there was a team on the park worth watching or at least some signs that Fenlon was capable of building a decent side. No noises coming out of Easter Road so far have given me any cause for optimism.

Out of interest, have you had a call from Hibs trying to get you to renew? A few of my mates who have had a seaon for over 20 years haven't heard anything.

For me that shows what we mean to Petrie and co

[Baldy Foghorn]

Out of interest, have you had a call from Hibs trying to get you to renew? A few of my mates who have had a seaon for over 20 years haven't heard anything.

For me that shows what we mean to Petrie and co

I believe Hibs will be writing to fans who have not renewed as of yet....

[bingo70]

Out of interest, have you had a call from Hibs trying to get you to renew? A few of my mates who have had a seaon for over 20 years haven't heard anything.

For me that shows what we mean to Petrie and co

I never renewed after a number of years and haven't heard a peep.

Even something like a questionnaire asking why we never renewed might have thrown up a few common factors a half decent salesman could have overcome.

They completely rely on blind faith and that's there only tactic to get you to renew.

Imo after the season we just had the renewal 'offers'.were insulting.

[Dalkeith]

Out of interest, have you had a call from Hibs trying to get you to renew? A few of my mates who have had a seaon for over 20 years haven't heard anything.

For me that shows what we mean to Petrie and co


was ST holder without a break for over 20 years until last season, in that time i got my 3 kids,wife and sister all buying ST, never heard a word from hibs last season and out of 6 of us 3 have st for next season

[bingo70]

I believe Hibs will be writing to fans who have not renewed as of yet....

They're a bit late.

I was a bit uneasy about not renewing at first and probably could have been talked round, now though I'm used to the idea and even if I wanted to I'll have lost my seat beside my mates.

[Gatecrasher]

The way I see it is if we all trust fenlon as the manager of our club then we need to back him and give him the funds he will need to build a good squad of players pretty much from scratch, if he's not going to be backed properly then it will only prolong the pish we have seen for the last few years.

[lucky]

The club stated 2500 have not renewed but how many new ST holder's did we get on the back of the cup final?. It was a strange statement yet again from Hibs , begging but not all facts given or new players being signed.

[SneakersO'Toole]

Firstly, on the part I've highlighted, the last few years have shown that this too often isn't the case. Others have spent far less than Hibs and enjoyed more success. The question should be can Fenlon make the most of the resources he has. He's unlucky that he is paying for the mistakes of his predecessors (and the board) but fans are voting with their feet as its the only option available to register your discontent.

The board have basically hung Fenlon out to dry and a large part of this stems back to their pathetic season ticket plan. The board are in place as custodians/guardians of the club as they should be qualified individuals who can maximise our revenues and drive the club forward. Their product offering for STs was basically to throw in a few freebies and hope the usual folk renew.

Especially in the current climate they missed a huge opportunity to look at things differently. To list just a few options
-monthly membership scheme via direct debit with say a 2/3 month cancellation notice period
-quarter/half season tickets for first part/half of season

We have a huge database of customers, why not do some actual research and ask fans whether they'd be interested in these options? But no, the club give the impression that you either commit to a full season up front or they don't want your money. Fenlons quote that we can only commit on the basis of money in the bank is naive and simplistic IMO. Every trading business must work with projections and plan and adjust accordingly. Our financial modelling seems to be based on 7,000 odd fans blindly renewing and when this doesnt happen Hibs are lost. What are the board actually contributing intellectually, never mind financially?

The marketing of STs has been largely rejected and the contingency plan is basically to beg, first Petrie and now Fenlon. And the fans are treated like children and not even given the actual numbers.

It's very difficult to have any faith in these people.

Excellent post. You have made a lot of pertinent points that I think will resonate with many others.

I renewed out of blond faith last year when the board trotted out similar tosh. I just won't buy into it anymore.

At no point during this close season have our board sat down and said - right, we cant expect the fans to stump up cash again out of loyalty. What can we do to incentivise them and show them we are trying different things/thinking outside the box to come up with new innovative ways to change our fortunes. Unfortunately its just the same old show they are putting on.

They are out of touch and out of ideas. Hoping and gambling on things getting better rather than outlining a tangible amd accountable strategy which they think will work.

The bottom line is that they (the board) just dont get it. I dont they have the slighest idea how much we as a support have suffered over the last few years. Last season was the wake up call they needed with regards to ST sales yet we get fed the same lip service again this season.

Not good enough, not nearly good enough.

[GreenPJ]

I never renewed after a number of years and haven't heard a peep.

Even something like a questionnaire asking why we never renewed might have thrown up a few common factors a half decent salesman could have overcome.

They completely rely on blind faith and that's there only tactic to get you to renew.

Imo after the season we just had the renewal 'offers'.were insulting.

Do the board really need a questionnaire to tell them why fans are not engaged, I don't think so. Also would a call from Hibs to people who had not renewed really make a difference? You read the abuse some of the Ozzy shop staff get on here can you imagine any of them phoning up and asking people to renew. It would be slated and also a waste of money as not sure many people would change their mind.

I don't have issues with people not renewing, it is a choice and if people choose to do something different then so be it, its back down to making people want to choose to come to ER on a regular basis that is the key and that will only come with stability, improved performances and results.

[bingo70]

Do the board really need a questionnaire to tell them why fans are not engaged, I don't think so. Also would a call from Hibs to people who had not renewed really make a difference? You read the abuse some of the Ozzy shop staff get on here can you imagine any of them phoning up and asking people to renew. It would be slated and also a waste of money as not sure many people would change their mind.

I don't have issues with people not renewing, it is a choice and if people choose to do something different then so be it, its back down to making people want to choose to come to ER on a regular basis that is the key and that will only come with stability, improved performances and results.

Some people just maybe needed a bit more convincing.

For me the final straw was charging interest on my instalment plan so if after speaking to the fans they discovered lots of people thought the same they might have justified it better.

Not to call disgruntled customers in case they get shouted at is a kop out, most of the time if your paying for something and you want to stop it you receive some kind of contact asking you why or trying to convince you other wise, I think I even got a letter about my bus pass when I cancelled it.

I bet they'd get more success out of that than they will out of this statement they've put up today.

[Weir7]

I believe Hibs will be writing to fans who have not renewed as of yet....

Not good enough. Directors need to pick up the phone. Not some pishy letter. Not some aussie temp. Time for the board to earn their wages. They have to sell the vision to the punters that haven't renewed.

[Heedersnvolleys]

For me it is the constant requests for the fans to dig deep that really gets me. Even the other day when they could has just put a simple statement saying the club were going to vote "no" on the newco there was under tones in the statement asking us again to put our hands in our pockets. It just seems unrelenting!

[Gatecrasher]

Not good enough. Directors need to pick up the phone. Not some pishy letter. Not some aussie temp. Time for the board to earn the wages. They have to sell the vision to the punters that haven't renewed.
So rather than run the football club and answering what seems to be a steady stream of emails from fans you want them to phone 2500 folk? I would rather they concentrated on signing players and improving the club.

[Weir7]

For me it is the constant requests for the fans to dig deep that really gets me. Even the other day when they could has just put a simple statement saying the club were going to vote "no" on the newco there was under tones in the statement asking us again to put our hands in our pockets. It just seems unrelenting!
Its because they don't know how to generate investment, other than through the fans.

Look at behind the goals. Should be a money spinner. But Hibs couldn't organise a piss up in a brewrey.

[Weir7]

So rather than run the football club and answering what seems to be a steady stream of emails from fans you want them to phone 2500 folk? I would rather they concentrated on signing players and improving the club.

You need money to do that. And if you read the statement we have none. And they have proven the can't improve the club.

[The Green Goblin]

For me it is the constant requests for the fans to dig deep that really gets me. Even the other day when they could has just put a simple statement saying the club were going to vote "no" on the newco there was under tones in the statement asking us again to put our hands in our pockets. It just seems unrelenting!


Agree - also agree with Tyler's excellent post. Some of us are showing the same old blind faith and misplaced optimism, but many others have had enough and are not.

[Mark79]

Message to pat. Product that has been sold to us for years is crap. Show us the improved product first and we may part with our cash.

Yours sincerely

Sauzee 4

[matty_f]

Not good enough. Directors need to pick up the phone. Not some pishy letter. Not some aussie temp. Time for the board to earn their wages. They have to sell the vision to the punters that haven't renewed.

Utter pish. The board are working all hours trying to fix things. The staff at the club just now are all taking on extra work because of the cuts the board have made to keep as much money as possible with Fenlon.
They don't have the time to dial every lapsed season ticket holder, as much as they'd like to.
They know how we are feeling, they are acutely aware of it and they are well aware of what has gone wrong and why fans feel the way we do.
Do we really need them phoning us to tell us what we already know and so we can tell them what they already know?

I remember threads like this last year and not enough folk renewed to make a difference. We got worse.

Guess what's going to happen this time if fewer still renew.

There is NO money to invest. We had an £800k loss in the last accounts and are facing another loss this year .

IMHO, the situation is only going to get worse unless we as a support make a decision to get behind the club in bigger numbers than we have for years.

We can't always be rebuilding, and replacing sub-standard players en mass every season. We have the chance NOW to back the manager enough for him to bring in the players to make up a strong Hibernian team for the next few years.

If we don't, and it gets worse, then we are in big trouble.

[matty_f]

Message to pat. Product that has been sold to us for years is crap. Show us the improved product first and we may part with our cash.

Yours sincerely

Sauzee 4

Congratulations on totally missing the key parts of Pat's message.

[gbur123ukgb]

i have an idea re getting more funds into club.
Expand community football side of things more kids playing football = more money for football club.
Falkirk have the best community set up they have in excess of 2000 kids playing football each week paying £19 a month which makes club £456000 over the year also more kids playing would make more fans coming to games truth is Hibs do nothing to promote community football/ getting young kids into football which would make club money and also more fans coming to games also. Hibs youth set up involves taking kids from boys clubs all over the country where as even clubs like man united who invest heavily in community football (Danny wellbeck first played for man united community sides at 5 years old) aswell as smaller clubs who invest in community football.
More kids playing football under the hibs brand would help attract more fans als these kids should be coached in the hibs way off ball down on grounfd fast football.
So if hibs were down 2500 from last season surely that tells club something needs to change.

[blackpoolhibs]

Utter pish. The board are working all hours trying to fix things. The staff at the club just now are all taking on extra work because of the cuts the board have made to keep as much money as possible with Fenlon.
They don't have the time to dial every lapsed season ticket holder, as much as they'd like to.
They know how we are feeling, they are acutely aware of it and they are well aware of what has gone wrong and why fans feel the way we do.
Do we really need them phoning us to tell us what we already know and so we can tell them what they already know?

I remember threads like this last year and not enough folk renewed to make a difference. We got worse.

Guess what's going to happen this time if fewer still renew.

There is NO money to invest. We had an £800k loss in the last accounts and are facing another loss this year .

IMHO, the situation is only going to get worse unless we as a support make a decision to get behind the club in bigger numbers than we have for years.

We can't always be rebuilding, and replacing sub-standard players en mass every season. We have the chance NOW to back the manager enough for him to bring in the players to make up a strong Hibernian team for the next few years.

If we don't, and it gets worse, then we are in big trouble.

Rubbish Matty, we bought enough season tickets to be 4th highest season ticket sales in the SPL, our leaders appointment Colin Calderclown then took the piss out of our club, but our esteemed chairman failed to see that and gave him more time and money to waste, our season ticket money.

Just how many season tickets should we sell to see a better team on the park than Inverness caledonian ****in thistle?

[Sammy7nil]

i have an idea re getting more funds into club.
Expand community football side of things more kids playing football = more money for football club.
Falkirk have the best community set up they have in excess of 2000 kids playing football each week paying £19 a month which makes club £456000 over the year also more kids playing would make more fans coming to games truth is Hibs do nothing to promote community football/ getting young kids into football which would make club money and also more fans coming to games also. Hibs youth set up involves taking kids from boys clubs all over the country where as even clubs like man united who invest heavily in community football (Danny wellbeck first played for man united community sides at 5 years old) aswell as smaller clubs who invest in community football.
More kids playing football under the hibs brand would help attract more fans als these kids should be coached in the hibs way off ball down on grounfd fast football.
So if hibs were down 2500 from last season surely that tells club something needs to change.

I laughed out loud at that bit :greengrin:greengrin:greengrin maybe for 2 years out of the last 40 have we played anything like that style.

[Just_Jimmy]

Utter pish. The board are working all hours trying to fix things. The staff at the club just now are all taking on extra work because of the cuts the board have made to keep as much money as possible with Fenlon.
They don't have the time to dial every lapsed season ticket holder, as much as they'd like to.
They know how we are feeling, they are acutely aware of it and they are well aware of what has gone wrong and why fans feel the way we do.
Do we really need them phoning us to tell us what we already know and so we can tell them what they already know?

I remember threads like this last year and not enough folk renewed to make a difference. We got worse.

Guess what's going to happen this time if fewer still renew.

There is NO money to invest. We had an £800k loss in the last accounts and are facing another loss this year .

IMHO, the situation is only going to get worse unless we as a support make a decision to get behind the club in bigger numbers than we have for years.

We can't always be rebuilding, and replacing sub-standard players en mass every season. We have the chance NOW to back the manager enough for him to bring in the players to make up a strong Hibernian team for the next few years.

If we don't, and it gets worse, then we are in big trouble.

Good post Matty. I would argue that the problem really stems from the fact a large percentage of the support don't trust the club to invest the money properly, or at all.

It's too often cloak and daggers with Hibs. I'd say that a huge number have quite frankly had enough of the inaction, or perceeved token gestures more that anything. Whether they are right or wrong, I don't know.

I've got my season ticket for next year but it's hard to come down too hard on anyone, of any Scottish club, who hasn't given the current economic climate and the farce that is the league situation.

[matty_f]

Rubbish Matty, we bought enough season tickets to be 4th highest season ticket sales in the SPL, our leaders appointment Colin Calderclown then took the piss out of our club, but our esteemed chairman failed to see that and gave him more time and money to waste, our season ticket money.

Just how many season tickets should we sell to see a better team on the park than Inverness caledonian ****in thistle?

Again, ICT had a squad that had been together and only needed a few players added to it. We had to rebuild a ******* squad. Again.

You surely understand this point, BH, you're not a stupid guy. Their budget could be focussed on a couple of decent players, CC the clown had to spread his budget too thinly and bought sh*** with it.

[Scouse Hibee]

This summer has already seen the landscape of Scottish football change and we are working harder than ever to make sure we transform the results of Hibernian for the better.
The events of this summer are irrelevant in comparison to the event or lack of event witnessed at Hampden in May.

Our thanks go to everyone who has already shown their commitment to the club by investing in a 2012/13 Season Ticket Membership; your actions have been greatly appreciated.
Why not state the amount who have renewed.

So far this summer we've managed to get one of my top signing targets over the line with the arrival of Tim Clancy. But there is much more left to do on the transfer front and now we need the backing of our supporters more than ever.
Maybe if the supporters felt they were backed at Hampden by the team things would be different, you didn't have to win the cup just try!

We are a club that tries to do things the right way; we don't spend money that we don't have. Given the uncertainty surrounding the SPL for next season, we certainly can't spend what we don't have and simply cross our fingers in hope that it will come later.
Supporters can't spend money they don't have either!

My budget for next season is based on Season Tickets actually sold, not what we might sell. I know that I will get access to every single penny that comes into the club through new Season Ticket sales. So the commitment and faith of our supporters will determine just how much I have to spend on players ahead of the new season.
Our budgets are based on what we earn and each outlay has to be assessed carefully with value for money being one of our main concerns.

Thanks to all of those, who were able to and have bought a Season Ticket for next season. We hope that the 2,500 Season Ticket Members from last season, who have still yet to commit will renew in good time and we would welcome them back.
Maybe they're not able to justify the outlay.

I know there are lots of seats at Easter Road Stadium. But we cannot make binding commitments to players hoping that there will be a decent walk up.
Please don't wait to see what will happen or who we will sign, you can make an immediate impact on my transfer budget by investing now on a Season Ticket.
Yet you want us to commit hoping there will be a decent team!
I'm excited about what we can achieve here at Hibernian and we want our supporters to share those aspirations; working together to achieve the same goal.
Our aspirations have always been there, pity we can't say the same about the aspirations of the players.

After some hard times, we're confident about what can be achieved in the future. We want to be a club that you can be proud of, one that goes about its business professionally and acts with integrity.
We're not so confident so you're asking us to take a gamble with our cash.

Do we have ambition? Yes, absolutely. Do we have a war chest of money to spend on players? No. But we do plan to use our funds wisely to assemble a squad that is more than competitive next season. The funding provided by Season Ticket Members will go a long way to changing the dynamics of our squad.
We don't have war chests of cash either.

We no longer want to be seen as a soft touch. We want players wearing the Hibernian jersey, who are willing to give everything to the club and that excite our supporters.
We never wanted to be seen as a soft touch, yet every season promises come to nothing and we are. What's different this time?
We want strong-minded players, who will play their part in improving the team - showing the right attitude and application. Representing the club the right way and connecting with the Easter Road crowd.
Like the players YOU previously brought in.

To everyone who is undecided, I would say please don't wait to see what will happen or who we will sign. You can make an immediate impact on my transfer budget by investing now on a Season Ticket Membership. This summer we want to change our fortunes for the better and we need our supporters on board for the journey ahead.
Maybe offer us a short term investment to gain our trust............a half season ticket for the start of the season!

Thanks

[gbur123ukgb]

I laughed out loud at that bit :greengrin:greengrin:greengrin maybe for 2 years out of the last 40 have we played anything like that style.
maybe but if we coached young players in that way have every side playing same set up and have coerver coaching which foccuses on skills as foundation of everything then maybe we would have that again

[bingo70]

Utter pish. The board are working all hours trying to fix things. The staff at the club just now are all taking on extra work because of the cuts the board have made to keep as much money as possible with Fenlon.
They don't have the time to dial every lapsed season ticket holder, as much as they'd like to.
They know how we are feeling, they are acutely aware of it and they are well aware of what has gone wrong and why fans feel the way we do.
Do we really need them phoning us to tell us what we already know and so we can tell them what they already know?

I remember threads like this last year and not enough folk renewed to make a difference. We got worse.

Guess what's going to happen this time if fewer still renew.

There is NO money to invest. We had an £800k loss in the last accounts and are facing another loss this year .

IMHO, the situation is only going to get worse unless we as a support make a decision to get behind the club in bigger numbers than we have for years.

We can't always be rebuilding, and replacing sub-standard players en mass every season. We have the chance NOW to back the manager enough for him to bring in the players to make up a strong Hibernian team for the next few years.

If we don't, and it gets worse, then we are in big trouble.

Disagree matty, we got worse last year because of that clown as a manager not because we never bought into some statement.

This statement won't work, we won't sell any more st's on the back of it, or if we do it'll be one or two and certainly not enough to make a difference to the budget so what's the back up plan? Keep reducing the budget until we're a first division side and we start winning again*

With the way the clubs been run recently and who our owner is I don't believe we couldn't get access to more funds, imo if we can't generate more funds then now is the time to bite the bullet and get back into debt again with a view to paying it back when we're in a better position.

[IWasThere2016]

Its been a downward spiral since '07 - and the Board have been able to stall matters never mind reverse the trend. We need change they are not up to the job in hand.

[DC_Hibs]

Well said Patrick.

Time for some (so called) fans on here to put their money where their mouth is. Plenty who can afford a season ticket haven't yet grasped the meaning of supporter and backed our club by purchasing a season ticket. More seasons = a better 2012/13 season (subject to a manager with a half ounce of grey matter).

I realise there are some who simply can't due to financial reasons. Maybe if they spent less time on here moaning and more time working or looking for a job their financial situ would be better and they could also join the ranks of true fans. Yeah?

Hopefully these words of wisdom convince a couple of hundred to buy tomorrow giving Pat a much needed boost and ultimately improve our season.

It's time to come together.

Cheers Guys, take care.

[Just_Jimmy]

Its been a downward spiral since '07 - and the Board have been able to stall matters never mind reverse the trend. We need change they are not up to the job in hand.

which is basically what I said to Matty, G. Simple fact is the fans do not trust the board/manager/club (delete as appropriate).

[G-Reg]

Here is a list of teams and their cheapest adult season tickets

Hibs £355 (Famous five Lower)

English Premier League

· West Bromwich Albion - £349
· Aston Villa - £295
· Manchester City - £275
· Wigan Athletic - £255

La Liga

*feel free to check the current conversion rate.

· Athletico Madrid - €310
· Valencia - €231
· Real Madrid - €213
· Barcelona - €91
· In fact EVERY team in La Liga offers a cheaper adult season ticket than Hibs
**The Spanish list is based on last years prices but all clubs will be freezing or reducing this season.
The fact of the matter is do the board want to simply increase revenue or increase the average attendance? With the current pricing structure they may well be struggling to do both. If you have paid £355 or up to £405 for a ST this year ask yourself when would you say enough is enough £600? £900? £4000?. Every single person will have their limit at some point so just because you can afford the current prices doesn’t mean everyone else can.
For the record I will be PATG like I was for almost every home game last season and will be at my fair share of away games too. Last year I paid more than the cheapest adult/OAP/student ticket would cost but there will be thousands of other people who put in considerably more money to Hibs than me. Instead of trying to score points against each other debating who has paid what into the club we should be asking the board how they will get more money and fans into the club as the current spending policy is clearly failing. Simply asking existing fans to buy season tickets isn’t a viable long term strategy.
What would be better in the long run?
· 500 fans paying £4050 (a near empty stadium)
· 5000 fans paying £405 (the alleged current situation)
10,000 fans paying £280 (which would be a far more realistic price)Last years average attendance was 9,909 the lowest since 94/95 season and our highest single attendance last year of 15,281 wouldn’t have even filled the stadium prior to the new East stand. As a business increasing your customer base by lowering prices (if balanced correctly to avoid loss of total revenue) is a smart move as this means more people buying add-on purchases in food/merchandise. The free bonus of this is the increased chance of a better atmosphere and IF the results improve tweaking ST prices the following season can be done to increase profit without chasing people away. As a football club if you find yourself with a sell out stadium and a waiting list for tickets then up the prices accordingly.

[Scouse Hibee]

Well said Patrick.

Time for some (so called) fans on here to put their money where their mouth is. Plenty who can afford a season ticket haven't yet grasped the meaning of supporter and backed our club by purchasing a season ticket. More seasons = a better 2012/13 season (subject to a manager with a half ounce of grey matter).

I realise there are some who simply can't due to financial reasons. Maybe if they spent less time on here moaning and more time working or looking for a job their financial situ would be better and they could also join the ranks of true fans. Yeah?

Hopefully these words of wisdom convince a couple of hundred to buy tomorrow giving Pat a much needed boost and ultimately improve our season.

It's time to come together.

Cheers Guys, take care.


Priceless!

[blackpoolhibs]

Again, ICT had a squad that had been together and only needed a few players added to it. We had to rebuild a ******* squad. Again.

You surely understand this point, BH, you're not a stupid guy. Their budget could be focussed on a couple of decent players, CC the clown had to spread his budget too thinly and bought sh*** with it.

I'm not buying that Matty, we had a squad that 2 seasons before had finished 4th, Inverness rebuild a few of their team most seasons too. We are not the only club who change players, although i grant you this season is unprecedented.

Calderwood brought in O'Connor Sodje Thornhill Agogo O'Sbourne and others, all players from a higher standard apparently, the mantra was quality over quantity. Would Inverness have been able to afford any of these players?

Then we had Calderclowns antics, and Petrie backing him all the way, again nothing to do with the amount of season tickets or players we needed.

If we couldn't get it right when we spent what we did last season, how in gods name can we get it right now, when we need more players than ever, and have less money to spend?

Our owner needs to put his money in his pocket, the fans have had enough and wont swallow the flannel anymore.

[steakbake]

They spend their money wisely, we blow it.

Make no mistake we pay more than them in terms of total wage bill but they tend to get value for money these days, we don't.

So why should fans blindly subsidise what seems to be a fairly poor scouting network who have picked up few players of any consequence over the past few years?

[steakbake]

...yet we've spent more than most, we're told?

[blackpoolhibs]

...yet we've wasted more than most, we're told?

I have sorted the obvious mistake you made.

[SneakersO'Toole]

We can all debate on here about what, when, why and how. Bottom line is the current numbers dont lie. Ultimately the club are flogging a dead horse with statements like this.

Until the team on the park improves the attendances won't increase. There is no doubt we face an unprecedented rebuilding job this summer but the facts are this is because of the boards constant mistakes. Yet the fans are asked to bail out yet again. The board are more out of touch then I thought if they thought that would work again, especially after being let down in spectacular fashion back in May. Every relationship should have its fair balance of give and take. There isn't much if that currently between the club and fans.

Pat Fenlin needs to justify the boards trust in him to get it right, regardless of ST sales and ultimately budget.

[steakbake]

I have sorted the obvious mistake you made.

I am in your debt, sir.

[matty_f]

**** it, then. I give in, hope everyone that's bought a season ticket is thoroughly ashamed of themselves. I'm going to send mine back first thing tomorrow and not entertain the idea of going back til we're absolutely ******* amazing and even then, only if I get a phone call AND know how many season tickets we've sold as of close of business that night.

[Scouse Hibee]

**** it, then. I give in, hope everyone that's bought a season ticket is thoroughly ashamed of themselves. I'm going to send mine back first thing tomorrow and not entertain the idea of going back til we're absolutely ******* amazing and even then, only if I get a phone call AND know how many season tickets we've sold as of close of business that night.

I'm just gonna keep mine :greengrin

[Jones28]

I have been a season ticket holder for a number of years - 8 in a row now to be exact. There are several reasons I'm NOT renewing this season: money, travelling, the enourmous leap between prices (£170 to £380), work commitments and the cup final. The fact we were ***** last season didn't stop me from renewing last season, I got one because I am a Hibs supporter. However the accumulation of all kinds of different reasons this season means I won't be getting one. This season I will try and go to games as a walk up fan. Everyone knows that buying a season ticket is a lottery and you never really know if you will happy by the end of the season. If you're willing to take the gamble and you have the cash then yeah, why not? I would if I could. I'll be getting the new away top at some point too, cos it's brilliant. That's how I'm supporting my team this season.

I have a lot of sympathy for PF because he's not the one who has get us in this position and deserves the same budget and amount of time the previous 3 managers have all had. However if anyone can get Hibs back on top then he's man :aok:

Mon the Paddy! GGTTH:flag:

[matty_f]

I'm just gonna keep mine :greengrin

Well I hope you know the damage you're causing. :greengrin

[scoopyboy]

So why should fans blindly subsidise what seems to be a fairly poor scouting network who have picked up few players of any consequence over the past few years?

I'm not saying they should, it is up to everyone to make their own call.

I did but that was my call.

[Scouse Hibee]

Well I hope you know the damage you're causing. :greengrin

I'll live with it :greengrin


I still think we should offer a half season ticket for the first half of the season, a short term investment for the supporters to build trust.

[California-Hibs]

Here is a list of teams and their cheapest adult season tickets

Hibs £355 (Famous five Lower)

English Premier League

· West Bromwich Albion - £349
· Aston Villa - £295
· Manchester City - £275
· Wigan Athletic - £255

La Liga

*feel free to check the current conversion rate.

· Athletico Madrid - €310
· Valencia - €231
· Real Madrid - €213
· Barcelona - €91
· In fact EVERY team in La Liga offers a cheaper adult season ticket than Hibs
**The Spanish list is based on last years prices but all clubs will be freezing or reducing this season.
The fact of the matter is do the board want to simply increase revenue or increase the average attendance? With the current pricing structure they may well be struggling to do both. If you have paid £355 or up to £405 for a ST this year ask yourself when would you say enough is enough £600? £900? £4000?. Every single person will have their limit at some point so just because you can afford the current prices doesn’t mean everyone else can.
For the record I will be PATG like I was for almost every home game last season and will be at my fair share of away games too. Last year I paid more than the cheapest adult/OAP/student ticket would cost but there will be thousands of other people who put in considerably more money to Hibs than me. Instead of trying to score points against each other debating who has paid what into the club we should be asking the board how they will get more money and fans into the club as the current spending policy is clearly failing. Simply asking existing fans to buy season tickets isn’t a viable long term strategy.
What would be better in the long run?
· 500 fans paying £4050 (a near empty stadium)
· 5000 fans paying £405 (the alleged current situation)
10,000 fans paying £280 (which would be a far more realistic price)Last years average attendance was 9,909 the lowest since 94/95 season and our highest single attendance last year of 15,281 wouldn’t have even filled the stadium prior to the new East stand. As a business increasing your customer base by lowering prices (if balanced correctly to avoid loss of total revenue) is a smart move as this means more people buying add-on purchases in food/merchandise. The free bonus of this is the increased chance of a better atmosphere and IF the results improve tweaking ST prices the following season can be done to increase profit without chasing people away. As a football club if you find yourself with a sell out stadium and a waiting list for tickets then up the prices accordingly.

Is this correct yeah???? I never knew that! That's a disgrace that Hibs are charging more than all those teams!!

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm not saying they should, it is up to everyone to make their own call.

I did but that was my call.

I think the club know now they cant rely on blind faith anymore. The drop in crowds and season ticket sales is a direct link to their incompetence imo. They give each and every man they appoint the tools to make Hibs a top 4-5 side every season.

They just keep picking the wrong man, but they keep telling us the manager will get every penny we invest to spend, i think that has to change a little now. They need to find a way of getting the money available up front, if thats from STF i dont care, but their inability to find the right man to manage our club, then letting him spend all OUR money on duds has gone on too long.

[steakbake]

I'm not saying they should, it is up to everyone to make their own call.

I did but that was my call.

Fair play.

I'm going to hold on a bit. I was crushed by the final. I had a season ticket last year but game after game, I just thought the 40quid a month was not worth it in the end.

As a paying customer, I want to see the goods before I show the cash.

[mrdependable]

We are in the middle of the deepest recession for 80 years, have finished 10th and 11th in the last two years, Scottish football is in turmoil and we all know what we had to witness a month ago. Ive got a season ticket, but it's hardly surprising that renewals are down. We should still be in a stronger position than nearly every other club in the SPL.

[Scouse Hibee]

We are in the middle of the deepest recession for 80 years, have finished 10th and 11th in the last two years, Scottish football is in turmoil and we all know what we had to witness a month ago. Ive got a season ticket, but it's hardly surprising that renewals are down. We should still be in a stronger position than nearly every other club in the SPL.

We wouldn't expect anything less of Mr Dependable :greengrin

[mrdependable]

:agree:
We wouldn't expect anything less of Mr Dependable :greengrin

[Tom Hart RIP]

If 2000 fans bought STs through the finance deal, the ticket company makes approx £136,000 which isn't much less than McPake is reputedly asking for.

[Gatecrasher]

**** it, then. I give in, hope everyone that's bought a season ticket is thoroughly ashamed of themselves. I'm going to send mine back first thing tomorrow and not entertain the idea of going back til we're absolutely ******* amazing and even then, only if I get a phone call AND know how many season tickets we've sold as of close of business that night.
Well done for trying to stck up for Hibs. It it looks like a lot of the people on here have already decided they arent willing to help our club out. It seems the slippery slope of self justification for not going to games is well under way and unless we are at hampden next year we will be sitting in a 1/3 full ER next season.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Here is a list of teams and their cheapest adult season tickets

Hibs £355 (Famous five Lower)

English Premier League

· West Bromwich Albion - £349
· Aston Villa - £295
· Manchester City - £275
· Wigan Athletic - £255

La Liga

*feel free to check the current conversion rate.

· Athletico Madrid - €310
· Valencia - €231
· Real Madrid - €213
· Barcelona - €91
· In fact EVERY team in La Liga offers a cheaper adult season ticket than Hibs
**The Spanish list is based on last years prices but all clubs will be freezing or reducing this season.
The fact of the matter is do the board want to simply increase revenue or increase the average attendance? With the current pricing structure they may well be struggling to do both. If you have paid £355 or up to £405 for a ST this year ask yourself when would you say enough is enough £600? £900? £4000?. Every single person will have their limit at some point so just because you can afford the current prices doesn’t mean everyone else can.
For the record I will be PATG like I was for almost every home game last season and will be at my fair share of away games too. Last year I paid more than the cheapest adult/OAP/student ticket would cost but there will be thousands of other people who put in considerably more money to Hibs than me. Instead of trying to score points against each other debating who has paid what into the club we should be asking the board how they will get more money and fans into the club as the current spending policy is clearly failing. Simply asking existing fans to buy season tickets isn’t a viable long term strategy.
What would be better in the long run?
· 500 fans paying £4050 (a near empty stadium)
· 5000 fans paying £405 (the alleged current situation)
10,000 fans paying £280 (which would be a far more realistic price)Last years average attendance was 9,909 the lowest since 94/95 season and our highest single attendance last year of 15,281 wouldn’t have even filled the stadium prior to the new East stand. As a business increasing your customer base by lowering prices (if balanced correctly to avoid loss of total revenue) is a smart move as this means more people buying add-on purchases in food/merchandise. The free bonus of this is the increased chance of a better atmosphere and IF the results improve tweaking ST prices the following season can be done to increase profit without chasing people away. As a football club if you find yourself with a sell out stadium and a waiting list for tickets then up the prices accordingly.

Do the same post showing how much money these clubs make each year from TV money and I'll be a bit more impressed.

[Hibs7]

Reduce season ticket prices by £ 50 and you would probably make up the difference and more in increased st sales. Simples ckckck

[Gatecrasher]

Do the same post showing how much money these clubs make each year from TV money and I'll be a bit more impressed.
I think the fact that the epl just signed a billion pound tv deal kina puts thing into perspective.

[blackpoolhibs]

Does anyone remember when we were told things would be much better with a new training centre, and a finished stadium. Remember how we had nothing else to pay for, and all the money would go on the team?

When do the good times start?

[scoopyboy]

I think the club know now they cant rely on blind faith anymore. The drop in crowds and season ticket sales is a direct link to their incompetence imo. They give each and every man they appoint the tools to make Hibs a top 4-5 side every season.

They just keep picking the wrong man, but they keep telling us the manager will get every penny we invest to spend, i think that has to change a little now. They need to find a way of getting the money available up front, if thats from STF i dont care, but their inability to find the right man to manage our club, then letting him spend all OUR money on duds has gone on too long.

This.

From what I can make out they really need Pat Fenlon to turn us around.

Kind of minds me of It's a Knock Out from my youth, you play your Joker for double points as a last throw of your dice when you are too many points behind. The clever teams played theirs when they were in front and not desperate.

[WhileTheChief..]

Don't know if it's been mentioned yet but how good does Easter Rd look in the pic on the homepage :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[--------]

I know someone who has been to every match for 35 years, home away, friendlies abroad etc, who is not going back....The Final was his tipping point, and when guys like him walk away, Hibs have real problems....


Does anyone remember when we were told things would be much better with a new training centre, and a finished stadium. Remember how we had nothing else to pay for, and all the money would go on the team?

When do the good times start?


Good question, BH.

For me, I can't afford to pay out £400 right now.

Nor was the last performance by a Hibs team any incentive to suss out the possibility of arranging a monthly Direct Debit.

All I have to do to get really depressed is come off my medication. That costs me nothing; the black clouds descend, the misery kicks in, and I feel exactly the same as I was feeling around 5.00pm on the 19th of May. And it doesn't cost me £150 I can't really afford, like La Grande Debacle did.

I'm glad the board has taken an ethical position regarding Rangers Newco, but it'll take a lot more than that to persuade me that there are good reasons for attending Hibs matches again.

Like the club signing a sufficient number of sufficiently competent and committed players in time for next season to suggest that next season will be a little bit less excruciating than last.

That's the way it works, IMO - the business that wants my custom makes me offers that attract and encourage me to give them my money.

They don't demand £400 on the basis of "Give us your cash, and trust us, if we get enough other people to give us the same, we'll buy some really good players and have a really good team. Maybe."

If I want to throw away £400 for little or no return, I'll put it through the shredder and flush it down the loo.

[The Modfather]

Well done for trying to stck up for Hibs. It it looks like a lot of the people on here have already decided they arent willing to help our club out. It seems the slippery slope of self justification for not going to games is well under way and unless we are at hampden next year we will be sitting in a 1/3 full ER next season.

I've not had a season ticket in 2 years (or whenever the last season with the old East Stand was). I've been drifting further and further away and now occasionally miss games on TV because I didn't know they were even on. It is very sad given for a long time I travelled all over.

For me, it's just been take take take for too long. I'm not making any claims about "not going back until xyz etc", but my good will towards the board is basically non existent. Even if season tickets are down on last year, and with an unprecedented squad overhaul, I don't believe it is unrealistic that we should improve on last seasons 11th, and finish closer to the top 6 than bottom. If that happens, we see some direction, fitness, organisation, genuine quality over quantity, and youngsters in the squad, then I would imagine that I'll gradually begin going to games again.

It took Hibs a while to beat the natural enthusiasm I had for them out of me, it will now take them a while to "woo" me back again.

[Emerald]

[/B]

This.

From what I can make out they really need Pat Fenlon to turn us around.

Kind of minds me of It's a Knock Out from my youth, you play your Joker for double points as a last throw of your dice when you are too many points behind. The clever teams played theirs when they were in front and not desperate.

My view at the time and still is, why gamble on a rookie manager at such a dangerous time. We needed someone who knew how to wheel and deal at this level and get an SPL club going again. I've no idea if PF is that man and neither did the board as it was a blind gamble We need someone who can get the best from what cash he has, which is as most folk have pointed out, a lot more than most other SPL sides. To come begging on more is not good PR for a manager after all the fans have put up with over a number of years and especially the last two.

[BEEJ]

I realise there are some who simply can't due to financial reasons. Maybe if they spent less time on here moaning and more time working or looking for a job their financial situ would be better and they could also join the ranks of true fans. Yeah?
If ever there was a hit-and-run post worthy of utter contempt, this is it. I doubt it will be surpassed during 2012. Congratulations.


It's time to come together.

Cheers Guys, take care.
Aye, right enough. Group hug everyone? (Except for the unemployed, of course.)


Well done for trying to stck up for Hibs. It it looks like a lot of the people on here have already decided they arent willing to help our club out. It seems the slippery slope of self justification for not going to games is well under way and unless we are at hampden next year we will be sitting in a 1/3 full ER next season.
There can be no doubt that the ramifications of that result on 19 May will continue to haunt the club for some time to come.

It was the worst possible timing for what, historically, was one of our worst ever results.

[jabis]

I think the club know now they cant rely on blind faith anymore. The drop in crowds and season ticket sales is a direct link to their incompetence imo. They give each and every man they appoint the tools to make Hibs a top 4-5 side every season.

They just keep picking the wrong man, but they keep telling us the manager will get every penny we invest to spend, i think that has to change a little now. They need to find a way of getting the money available up front, if thats from STF i dont care, but their inability to find the right man to manage our club, then letting him spend all OUR money on duds has gone on too long.

quoth the man snorting vinegar in his avatar.bh knows the man to take charge of hibs......so who is it ?

(just so's we can rip the shoot out of ya !)

[jabis]

Does anyone remember when we were told things would be much better with a new training centre, and a finished stadium. Remember how we had nothing else to pay for, and all the money would go on the team?

When do the good times start?

sweet baby jesus,are you for real,or just a spoiled brat ?

there's a difference playing devils advocate and being a tit.

[blackpoolhibs]

quoth the man snorting vinegar in his avatar.bh knows the man to take charge of hibs......so who is it ?

(just so's we can rip the shoot out of ya !)

English please??????


sweet baby jesus,are you for real,or just a spoiled brat ?

there's a difference playing devils advocate and being a tit.

Was that not the mantra we heard on here? The foundations were built, the only way is up we were told. Thats not exactly been the case has it? And to address your first post, thats down to the half wits the clubs owners appointed.

A tit. :rolleyes:

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

Does anyone remember when we were told things would be much better with a new training centre, and a finished stadium. Remember how we had nothing else to pay for, and all the money would go on the team?

When do the good times start?

Could be after your last post ! :-)

[Beefster]

I remember threads like this last year

I remember posts from certain posters saying that the club needed to invest and give people a reason to renew.

Incidentally, I don't think it's up to fans to be banging on about how hard the Board is working (you're not the first since the meetings with the fans). We hear enough of that from the club. How hard they're working is irrelevant, it's the results of their work that matters.

[djs69]

To the non season ticket holders who quite happily jumped on the band wagon for the cup final, well done. time to dig deep and help turn our horrendous corner@GGTTH

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[jabis]

English please??????

"quoth"....it means "quoting"....which means "saying what you just said".
"the man snorting vinegar(something sort of tangy you put on chips)in his "avatar"....it's the "picture"(that's you on the floor snorting f'n'c((fish and chips)).)
hope this sort out your obvious confusion :na na:

Was that not the mantra we heard on here? The foundations were built, the only way is up we were told. Thats not exactly been the case has it? And to address your first post, thats down to the half wits the clubs owners appointed.

so it never happened yesterday,you must be gutted there's still almost 180 sleeps till santa comes :aok:

A tit. :rolleyes:

a tad harsh,I admit,....but then,you can only comment upon that which you read.I know you pride yourself on being able to stirr up a debate,but really,your pontificating sell-by date has expired.:greengrin

[GreenCastle]

Rather than the constant online fighting between fans who have renewed, not renewed - won't renew etc.

The bottom line shows there are several big issues still needing sorted at Hibs if we are to progress.

1. Fenlon and his scouting network must look to bring in hard working, talented players who care for the club. Think about changing the wage salary cap Hibs have - more of a slanted salary scale than a general amount leading to several average players. (all still done within the budget obviously).

2. The team once these players have been brought in - must show they will progress as a "team" and do their talking on the pitch. None of the constant indiscipline we have seen over the last few years off the pitch either - GOC / Riordan / LG etc and rubbish posted in the Evening News about turning things around etc. Just go out and win games every so often.

3. The board need to realise they are very close to a MASSIVE revolt - I know RP reads these pages and even has an account and he has to take note. It's going to take a long time to mend the recent final and performance and it could be as soon as the 2nd game of the season again the yams if the performance levels haven't improved. By the time the AGM comes around it could turn very ugly for STF / RP and the board.

4. The board need to learn from comments on this thread and in the past and actually do something different. Re-open the payment plan, allow a Direct Debit subscription, Offer half season ticket for the first half of the season - loyalty points for all those hibs.net uberfans, 5 game plans etc. Surely they have some ideas to get a sense of excitement for fans to buy tickets again.

5. Change the pricing structure - different prices for different parts of the ground - as mentioned before it's not value for money. Your asking people to pay to watch a squad currently with no captain, no 1st choice GK, CH, CM or strikers who will score goals?! It would have been hard enough for some fans to renew after the final with the same squad - but add to that many of those playing won't be here next year and we are left with even more dross than previous times. Who as fans are we looking forward to watching - who will the fans relate to or future generations want to be like when they get older - McPake was the start but seems he may not be back.

6. Link in with the community and get the Hibs name out there - more work in Schools. More visits by the players to local clubs. Advertising around the city (I saw the yams had a billboard on Telford Road for ST's). Just do a little more to build the bridges back which have been broken over the last few years.

7. Connect with the long term fans - the ones who you shouldn't be losing but if you read this thread you are. Make them feel wanted again and get them back - these are the core and will have future generations coming back. Ideally recognise you will lose them before they go as it's always harder to get them back.

I will leave it at 7 as that's a good number :wink: but seriously Hibs sort yourself out. We have had one of the worst results / performances in living history - you have done the common sense decision and voted newco not into the SPL if you want a stadium packed and supporting the team like the Pars game at the end of the season find ways to get fans into the ground better and sort the relationships out with fans that have lost the faith.

P.S I have a season ticket for next year - I will probably use my free shirt offer after buying the away top and give money to the club but I still think the way we do things needs drastically changed as I know I am still angry and hurting about the way the clubs been run the last few years but there are many more who give more who have given up and many who will give up soon if no return is produced.

[steakbake]

You nailed it, NJ.

Show us the goods, then we can show them our money. Basic business here.

It's like buying a car which has let you down and been unreliable then being told there's a new version coming out but you'll need to buy it before the design flaws are ironed out and installed.

Also very good points that there are so many holes in the team, who knows what team we'll be sitting down to watch in August.

Hibs have to dig deep, then if they do it right, people will chip in to fill the hole. If today's announcement was off the back of a season where we did well but they were pitching for us to do even better, I might not feel so insulted by it. However, the club has squeezed some fans once too many times. Some of us are not willing to give any more until we can see that there is a point to it.

Football is emotional. If you're in and have your season ticket already, great, that's your choice and you're entitled to it. You can't criticise people who want to see definite signs of intention from the club before buying in.

Final point: we lost six figures off the club's balance sheet over Calderwood. How many season tickets does that equate to?

[blackpoolhibs]

a tad harsh,I admit,....but then,you can only comment upon that which you read.I know you pride yourself on being able to stirr up a debate,but really,your pontificating sell-by date has expired.:greengrin

Its boltonhibs eating a kebab, :confused: And yes i get what you are saying, we need to be a little more patient again. :rolleyes:

Well as others have said, folk are leaving in droves, their patience has run out. Maybe time for the leaders to lead for a change, and put up the funds for this seasons challenge, rather than waiting to see what comes in.

[Beefster]

Rather than the constant online fighting between fans who have renewed, not renewed - won't renew etc.

The bottom line shows there are several big issues still needing sorted at Hibs if we are to progress.

1. Fenlon and his scouting network must look to bring in hard working, talented players who care for the club. Think about changing the wage salary cap Hibs have - more of a slanted salary scale than a general amount leading to several average players. (all still done within the budget obviously).

2. The team once these players have been brought in - must show they will progress as a "team" and do their talking on the pitch. None of the constant indiscipline we have seen over the last few years off the pitch either - GOC / Riordan / LG etc and rubbish posted in the Evening News about turning things around etc. Just go out and win games every so often.

3. The board need to realise they are very close to a MASSIVE revolt - I know RP reads these pages and even has an account and he has to take note. It's going to take a long time to mend the recent final and performance and it could be as soon as the 2nd game of the season again the yams if the performance levels haven't improved. By the time the AGM comes around it could turn very ugly for STF / RP and the board.

4. The board need to learn from comments on this thread and in the past and actually do something different. Re-open the payment plan, allow a Direct Debit subscription, Offer half season ticket for the first half of the season - loyalty points for all those hibs.net uberfans, 5 game plans etc. Surely they have some ideas to get a sense of excitement for fans to buy tickets again.

5. Change the pricing structure - different prices for different parts of the ground - as mentioned before it's not value for money. Your asking people to pay to watch a squad currently with no captain, no 1st choice GK, CH, CM or strikers who will score goals?! It would have been hard enough for some fans to renew after the final with the same squad - but add to that many of those playing won't be here next year and we are left with even more dross than previous times. Who as fans are we looking forward to watching - who will the fans relate to or future generations want to be like when they get older - McPake was the start but seems he may not be back.

6. Link in with the community and get the Hibs name out there - more work in Schools. More visits by the players to local clubs. Advertising around the city (I saw the yams had a billboard on Telford Road for ST's). Just do a little more to build the bridges back which have been broken over the last few years.

7. Connect with the long term fans - the ones who you shouldn't be losing but if you read this thread you are. Make them feel wanted again and get them back - these are the core and will have future generations coming back. Ideally recognise you will lose them before they go as it's always harder to get them back.

I will leave it at 7 as that's a good number :wink: but seriously Hibs sort yourself out. We have had one of the worst results / performances in living history - you have done the common sense decision and voted newco not into the SPL if you want a stadium packed and supporting the team like the Pars game at the end of the season find ways to get fans into the ground better and sort the relationships out with fans that have lost the faith.

P.S I have a season ticket for next year - I will probably use my free shirt offer after buying the away top and give money to the club but I still think the way we do things needs drastically changed as I know I am still angry and hurting about the way the clubs been run the last few years but there are many more who give more who have given up and many who will give up soon if no return is produced.

Great post. Hopefully, this is the sort of stuff that the new working groups can drum the importance of into Hibs quick smart because I don't think Hibs get it.

[Septimus]

:greengrin
Yes, when are we going to get an appeal on the front page of the official site for us International supporters to help the Club by buying season tickets for the Hibs TV live video for home matches next season? :confused:

Presumably never at the present rate of progress. My money will doubtless be remaining in my pocket.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Sometimes the rallying calls can seem a little trite, and I don't see it having a major impact on either convincing people to either renew or not. The difficulty with figures is that no one can accurately state the reasons why some fans are not renewing. The demographic of Hibs fans will be impacted by the economic issues and even if we had a decent season last year, I think we would still be down.

[Brooster]

That awkward moment when you accuse someone of snorting vinegar only to find out it is someone completely different in the photo!

[JimBHibees]

Not the best worded statement IMO and agree it appears more corporate text than PF's words however it is clear we are struggling and we need as many fans back as possible. It is a chicken and egg situation however I think alot need to look at the bigger picture that we are in unchartered waters given the Newco vote and we need as many people as possible supporting the club financially given the shortfall. That can be done in many ways though through attending more games as walk ups, buying more merchandise in the club shop either in person or online or investing in a season ticket.

I am not sure the timing of the announcement is great either in that the Newco situation hasnt been totally resolved as many IMO will find in difficult to renew if a debt free Rangers are popping up in the SPL the season after next.

As regards season tickets I think the payment plan option should have been back on the table again due to the Newco debacle to encourage more people who arent able or willing to commit to 400 quid in a oner.

The bottom line for me is that the last thing that any Hibs fan should be wanting to see or hear is succulent lambs like Young, Dodds, Keevins and Traynor smugly reminding us that we told you the SPL would be a joke without the mighty Gers.

[matty_f]

Not the best worded statement IMO and agree it appears more corporate text than PF's words however it is clear we are struggling and we need as many fans back as possible. It is a chicken and egg situation however I think alot need to look at the bigger picture that we are in unchartered waters given the Newco vote and we need as many people as possible supporting the club financially given the shortfall. That can be done in many ways though through attending more games as walk ups, buying more merchandise in the club shop either in person or online or investing in a season ticket.

I am not sure the timing of the announcement is great either in that the Newco situation hasnt been totally resolved as many IMO will find in difficult to renew if a debt free Rangers are popping up in the SPL the season after next.

As regards season tickets I think the payment plan option should have been back on the table again due to the Newco debacle to encourage more people who arent able or willing to commit to 400 quid in a oner.

The bottom line for me is that the last thing that any Hibs fan should be wanting to see or hear is succulent lambs like Young, Dodds, Keevins and Traynor smugly reminding us that we told you the SPL would be a joke without the mighty Gers.

Good post.

The payment plan option has come up a few times on this thread, I wonder if there is a possibility that it could be re-introduced.

[Stevie Reid]

Not the best worded statement IMO and agree it appears more corporate text than PF's words however it is clear we are struggling and we need as many fans back as possible. It is a chicken and egg situation however I think alot need to look at the bigger picture that we are in unchartered waters given the Newco vote and we need as many people as possible supporting the club financially given the shortfall. That can be done in many ways though through attending more games as walk ups, buying more merchandise in the club shop either in person or online or investing in a season ticket.

I am not sure the timing of the announcement is great either in that the Newco situation hasnt been totally resolved as many IMO will find in difficult to renew if a debt free Rangers are popping up in the SPL the season after next.

As regards season tickets I think the payment plan option should have been back on the table again due to the Newco debacle to encourage more people who arent able or willing to commit to 400 quid in a oner.

The bottom line for me is that the last thing that any Hibs fan should be wanting to see or hear is succulent lambs like Young, Dodds, Keevins and Traynor smugly reminding us that we told you the SPL would be a joke without the mighty Gers.

:top marks

[blackpoolhibs]

Good post.

The payment plan option has come up a few times on this thread, I wonder if there is a possibility that it could be re-introduced.

I agree Matty, the club should be reintroducing every scheme like the early bird scheme, even perhaps the payment plan without interest, anything to get more season tickets sold, and tempt those back who have not renewed.

I'd also like the club to put some money up themselves, to address the shortfall. If as you say Matty, we need more money than ever, because we are starting from a lower base, and need more players than other teams because we need far more players than the opposition do.

We know we are not suddenly going to bring in more season ticket sales, the last two seasons have made that clear. Season ticket sales are down because of poor results, if the club want quality over quantity, especially when you consider how many players they actually need.

I dont see how the manager can do this on a reduced budget from previous years, how else are we going to bring money in for what you think we need?

[matty_f]

I agree Matty, the club should be reintroducing every scheme like the early bird scheme, even perhaps the payment plan without interest, anything to get more season tickets sold, and tempt those back who have not renewed.

I'd also like the club to put some money up themselves, to address the shortfall. If as you say Matty, we need more money than ever, because we are starting from a lower base, and need more players than other teams because we need far more players than the opposition do.

We know we are not suddenly going to bring in more season ticket sales, the last two seasons have made that clear. Season ticket sales are down because of poor results, if the club want quality over quantity, especially when you consider how many players they actually need.

I dont see how the manager can do this on a reduced budget from previous years, how else are we going to bring money in for what you think we need?

The club have been putting money in which is why we have been running at a loss.

To answer your question, imho if we as a support don't put the money in to get what we need, then we simply won't get it. We'll probably be back scrabbling around for loans again.

[Phil MaGlass]

could be alot of fans havent renewed cos they can t afford it and may now be pay at the gate? Although 2500 have not renewed I dont think/hope we will have such a drop in attendances.

[blackpoolhibs]

The club have been putting money in which is why we have been running at a loss.

To answer your question, imho if we as a support don't put the money in to get what we need, then we simply won't get it. We'll probably be back scrabbling around for loans again.

Well if thats the case Matty, we will be scrapping around for loans. I think we all know there's not a hope in hell we will sell more tickets than the previous 2 seasons.

[Stevie Reid]

Everyone acknowledges the fact that Pat has a huge rebuilding job on his hands, and we are part of that too. It can be argued that I buy my season ticket out of blind faith, as there is certainly no sensible rationale behind renewing a ticket that brought so much misery and only two home wins last season, but I do not buy my ST for any guarantees about results or good football - I am buying into something that I hope will become bigger, better and stronger over time. In recent years that has seemed unlikely due to the duopoly of the OF, but now, with one of them out of the way, there are whole new opportunities for a club of our size.

Whilst I cannot argue with anyone not renewing for next season (I gave it serious consideration myself until the PP deadline came around), this is such a crucial time for the club that I would urge anyone in a position to do so, to do it. There are only 3 teams that have larger attendances than us in the SPL, and Rangers will no longer be in it and Hearts are finally seriously reigning in their spending after the excesses of previous years - add to that the fact that Motherwell are struggling even despite finishing in a Champions League spot, and Dundee Utd are struggling to sell tickets despite successive good league finishes and a recent SC win. History suggests that 3rd spot is up for grabs season after season in the SPL, now 2nd spot (for at least a couple of years) is - even without the CL spot, the prize money and prestige of such a finish is still extremely significant.

Fans often expect much from Hibs given the size of our club, what better way to show our size than to buy into the new opportunities presented by this sea change in Scottish football and help us prosper, possibly to whole new heights? I can completely understand anyone's reluctance to buy a season ticket given what we've had to suffer in recent years - but we cannot reach such heights without everyone who can being on board.

As Jim so profoundly put, what could possibly be worse than the Hun-sympathiser media sycophants being right with their dire predictions of the SPL without Rangers? People often argue that spending more money on players will bring in more quality, and that often is the case - what cannot be argued is that the more people who buy STs, the better Fenlon's budget will be. Many on here have laughed at the Rangers slogan of "We Don't Do Walking Away", yet at the same time there are many, many Hibs supporters who are doing precisely that -and we are a world away from where they are, and have been in worse positions than where we are now.

Again, I will never argue against anyone who simply cannot afford a ST, but anyone who is taking a stance or simply refusing to buy into Hibs at such a crucial time is simultaneously harming our chances of reviving our fortunes, and prospering in a league where 50% of the teams who have won it are gone for (hopefully) a few seasons. With cold, harsh analysis no one can really be blamed for walking away from Hibs given the heartache we have suffered in recent months, but the landscape is changing and we can really prosper if we are united as a support.

[matty_f]

Great post, Stevie. :top marks

[Antifa Hibs]

The only "industry" in were it's "customers" are guilt tripped into buying something, a kinda "if you don't buy a season ticket and we're gash again, its your fault, not our's after season after season of mismanagement". Utter bollocks!

Season ticket money isn't the be all anyway. Mogga didn't start with masses of cash did he? Our record season ticket sales came through is period, not before. Youth, good management and scouting systems seems to do the trick. Then look at the dafties Yogi and Calderwood, probably easily the 4th biggest budget for a good while and look at the dross we had to endure.

I've £700 in my savings. See you's in Belgium and Germany. I'll PATG again home and away everyweek instead :aok:

[GreenCastle]

Not the best worded statement IMO and agree it appears more corporate text than PF's words however it is clear we are struggling and we need as many fans back as possible. It is a chicken and egg situation however I think alot need to look at the bigger picture that we are in unchartered waters given the Newco vote and we need as many people as possible supporting the club financially given the shortfall. That can be done in many ways though through attending more games as walk ups, buying more merchandise in the club shop either in person or online or investing in a season ticket.

I am not sure the timing of the announcement is great either in that the Newco situation hasnt been totally resolved as many IMO will find in difficult to renew if a debt free Rangers are popping up in the SPL the season after next.

As regards season tickets I think the payment plan option should have been back on the table again due to the Newco debacle to encourage more people who arent able or willing to commit to 400 quid in a oner.

The bottom line for me is that the last thing that any Hibs fan should be wanting to see or hear is succulent lambs like Young, Dodds, Keevins and Traynor smugly reminding us that we told you the SPL would be a joke without the mighty Gers.

I agree with most of what you say and I also agree about showing those in the media we don't need the Old Firm - or whatever they are called now.

But the bottom line really is getting a team on the park fans are happy to be associated with and which fans enjoy going along to ER to watch.

Many have given up as the match day experience of overpriced food (Don't get me started on that - has this not be changed yet!), unfit players - who can't do the basics (pass/move/1st touch and take a throw in!) and lack of any quality has made people leave ER asking why they put themselves through an unhappy 90 plus minutes - when they can save money and find less stressful / happier things to do when the game is on.

I don't think as fans we are asking a lot - really just the basics of supporting a football team. A side which looks like they are organised - try and play a bit of football once in a while (obviously this isn't Barcelona we are paying to watch), have a connection with the fans and generally look like they care - something which was lost throughout most of last season and was summed up on the 19th May by hurting so many.

[matty_f]

Well if thats the case Matty, we will be scrapping around for loans. I think we all know there's not a hope in hell we will sell more tickets than the previous 2 seasons.

I'm very concerned that will be the case.

What amazes/disappoints me is the number of folk who don't want to change that situation. I would have thought that, like Stevie above, people would realise the part they have to play in bucking the trend.

I thought, clearly wrongly, that people would be of a mind to make the club better, but it appears that opinion favours walking away. It's a shame.

[matty_f]

The only "industry" in were it's "customers" are guilt tripped into buying something, a kinda "if you don't buy a season ticket and we're gash again, its your fault, not our's after season after season of mismanagement". Utter bollocks!

Season ticket money isn't the be all anyway. Mogga didn't start with masses of cash did he? Our record season ticket sales came through is period, not before. Youth, good management and scouting systems seems to do the trick. Then look at the dafties Yogi and Calderwood, probably easily the 4th biggest budget for a good while and look at the dross we had to endure.

I've £700 in my savings. See you's in Belgium and Germany. I'll PATG again home and away everyweek instead :aok:

Good for you. :aok:

[JimBHibees]

Everyone acknowledges the fact that Pat has a huge rebuilding job on his hands, and we are part of that too. It can be argued that I buy my season ticket out of blind faith, as there is certainly no sensible rationale behind renewing a ticket that brought so much misery and only two home wins last season, but I do not buy my ST for any guarantees about results or good football - I am buying into something that I hope will become bigger, better and stronger over time. In recent years that has seemed unlikely due to the duopoly of the OF, but now, with one of them out of the way, there are whole new opportunities for a club of our size.

Whilst I cannot argue with anyone not renewing for next season (I gave it serious consideration myself until the PP deadline came around), this is such a crucial time for the club that I would urge anyone in a position to do so, to do it. There are only 3 teams that have larger attendances than us in the SPL, and Rangers will no longer be in it and Hearts are finally seriously reigning in their spending after the excesses of previous years - add to that the fact that Motherwell are struggling even despite finishing in a Champions League spot, and Dundee Utd are struggling to sell tickets despite successive good league finishes and a recent SC win. History suggests that 3rd spot is up for grabs season after season in the SPL, now 2nd spot (for at least a couple of years) is - even without the CL spot, the prize money and prestige of such a finish is still extremely significant.

Fans often expect much from Hibs given the size of our club, what better way to show our size than to buy into the new opportunities presented by this sea change in Scottish football and help us prosper, possibly to whole new heights? I can completely understand anyone's reluctance to buy a season ticket given what we've had to suffer in recent years - but we cannot reach such heights without everyone who can being on board.

As Jim so profoundly put, what could possibly be worse than the Hun-sympathiser media sycophants being right with their dire predictions of the SPL without Rangers? People often argue that spending more money on players will bring in more quality, and that often is the case - what cannot be argued is that the more people who buy STs, the better Fenlon's budget will be. Many on here have laughed at the Rangers slogan of "We Don't Do Walking Away", yet at the same time there are many, many Hibs supporters who are doing precisely that -and we are a world away from where they are, and have been in worse positions than where we are now.

Again, I will never argue against anyone who simply cannot afford a ST, but anyone who is taking a stance or simply refusing to buy into Hibs at such a crucial time is simultaneously harming our chances of reviving our fortunes, and prospering in a league where 50% of the teams who have won it are gone for (hopefully) a few seasons. With cold, harsh analysis no one can really be blamed for walking away from Hibs given the heartache we have suffered in recent months, but the landscape is changing and we can really prosper if we are united as a support.




Very good post.

[Andy74]

I'm very concerned that will be the case.

What amazes/disappoints me is the number of folk who don't want to change that situation. I would have thought that, like Stevie above, people would realise the part they have to play in bucking the trend.

I thought, clearly wrongly, that people would be of a mind to make the club better, but it appears that opinion favours walking away. It's a shame.

Agree with that. Although I can also understand the argument that we've been mince. It's about what we want to do about that though and I think there's a huge opportunity here in Scottish football to do something.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm very concerned that will be the case.

What amazes/disappoints me is the number of folk who don't want to change that situation. I would have thought that, like Stevie above, people would realise the part they have to play in bucking the trend.

I thought, clearly wrongly, that people would be of a mind to make the club better, but it appears that opinion favours walking away. It's a shame.

I am disappointed with the drop in sales, but to be fair i was not renewing myself towards the end of last season, but in a moment of weakness i did.

I can understand why people are not renewing, you only have to look at the complete mismanagement from the top down recently, and how thats manifested itself onto the pitch.

Crowds rise when we do well, they drop when we are poor, its the way of the football world. Its time for those at the top to start paying for their mistakes, they have to entice people back with the only way they can, investment in a decent team.

[GreenCastle]

I'm very concerned that will be the case.

What amazes/disappoints me is the number of folk who don't want to change that situation. I would have thought that, like Stevie above, people would realise the part they have to play in bucking the trend.

I thought, clearly wrongly, that people would be of a mind to make the club better, but it appears that opinion favours walking away. It's a shame.

The thing here is Matty that this is not just about last season - this is about a build up of bad decisions over the last few seasons.

Hibs fans really haven't been walking away - yes we have lost numbers but many other teams who have had our problems and home form would be in the same situation or possibly worse. Hibs fans have stuck by the team pretty well in some absolute shocking games.

If this had been Rangers for the last few years in our place - are you telling me they would have kept getting 40,000 - 50,000 at each game - no chance those figures would have dropped massively.

Right now is crunch time again - we have a chance to strengthen but those who have lost interest (you can't argue against that) aren't buying in as shown on this thread.

Those who have committed like yourself and myself for next season can't be angry at those who have not committed as really we are the ones with blind faith here.

Don't get me wrong I would love nothing more than seeing ER full or close to full each week but it shouldn't come to the point where dedicated fans like us are having to rally the troops - the people higher up should be actively encouraging people to come out and not just be releasing a couple of statements here and there which not even everybody in the Hibs support has access to reading.

[leggeto]

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20120627/a-message-to-all-hibernian-supporters_2262950_2561148

get your dosh out fellow fans,there has never been a better time to have a good season we might finish 2nd instead of 3rd and that means a good euro trip will be waiting

[JimBHibees]

I agree with most of what you say and I also agree about showing those in the media we don't need the Old Firm - or whatever they are called now.

But the bottom line really is getting a team on the park fans are happy to be associated with and which fans enjoy going along to ER to watch.

Many have given up as the match day experience of overpriced food (Don't get me started on that - has this not be changed yet!), unfit players - who can't do the basics (pass/move/1st touch and take a throw in!) and lack of any quality has made people leave ER asking why they put themselves through an unhappy 90 plus minutes - when they can save money and find less stressful / happier things to do when the game is on.

I don't think as fans we are asking a lot - really just the basics of supporting a football team. A side which looks like they are organised - try and play a bit of football once in a while (obviously this isn't Barcelona we are paying to watch), have a connection with the fans and generally look like they care - something which was lost throughout most of last season and was summed up on the 19th May by hurting so many.

Couldnt agree more the bottom line is we need a better team on the pitch competing better and getting in the face of other teams especially on our own pitch. Fenlon is right we are a soft touch and that has to change and personally think he is the right man to do it. I thought he did ok given the huge job he had last season and the cup run final apart obviously :greengrin showed we can do better. He has a big job but also a big opportunity to get a decent side on the pitch this season.

Clancy is IMO a decent signing and if the talk is right it looks like we are getting McPake also that to me is very much the sort of change we need and the sort of players that will improve the team.

I appreciate how heartbreaking and soul destroying that final was however personally think we need to look on that as gone and in the past and to be honest if we ignore that game we actually finished the season not too bad all things considered. PF now has a chance to put his stamp on the team and the club and IMO the more fans that support the club the more chance he will have of genuinely improving things.

[neilmartinrocks]

I don't have a season ticket and haven't since 2009 as my job includes every saturday. I pay at the gate and usually make 10-12 home games a season, every sunday and midweek game plus the odd saturday that i skive when i think i'll get away with it. I buy all my teckle from Hibs shop hats, scarves and badges etc. Hibernian get most, if not all, of my spare cash. I've seen some good teams and also seen some real ****ing dross but will continue to go to ER as often as I can win or lose. I, and most others, do what we can for our team. OVER TO YOU MESSERS PETRIE AND FENLON.

was meant to quote nj there didn't come up.

[leggeto]

lot of moaning going on here are we hibbys or not get your tikets for next season, every team has bad ones,and never two good seasons in a row, all you people who say your no goin will be back the season after if we have a good one,i am still hurting with what happened in the final but if you are a true hibs SUPPORTER you will be back:flag:

[Baldy Foghorn]

I buy a season ticket every year, thats what I do, however I am becoming increasingly annoyed/worried at the way the Club is being run. The mismanagement that has been a recurring trend for years, is astounding. After two utterly woeful seasons and that humiliation in May, the club is issuing trite statements about ticket renewals to help PF's budget....The custodians keep assuming blind faith will get them by, but this will only happen for so long.

I really believe the people running our great club, have no idea or connection on how the fans feel *, and fail to see how much apathy there is surrounding Hibs and Scottish Football in general. I fear things will only get worse because they wont spend anything over and above season ticket revenue on the player budget....Something has to give, I really have no confidence in our Board turning this mess around....

* Scott Lindsay reckoned he was hurting as much as the fans....NO WAY!!!!!!! He was brought up a Killie fan, who gets handsome recompense for his job at Hibs, so that showed me just how out of touch he is with the fan's feelings....

[blackpoolhibs]

I buy a season ticket every year, thats what I do, however I am becoming increasingly annoyed/worried at the way the Club is being run. The mismanagement that has been a recurring trend for years, is astounding. After two utterly woeful seasons and that humiliation in May, the club is issuing trite statements about ticket renewals to help PF's budget....The custodians keep assuming blind faith will get them by, but this will only happen for so long.

I really believe the people running our great club, have no idea or connection on how the fans feel *, and fail to see how much apathy there is surrounding Hibs and Scottish Football in general. I fear things will only get worse because they wont spend anything over and above season ticket revenue on the player budget....Something has to give, I really have no confidence in our Board turning this mess around....

* Scott Lindsay reckoned he was hurting as much as the fans....NO WAY!!!!!!! He was brought up a Killie fan, who gets handsome recompense for his job at Hibs, so that showed me just how out of touch he is with the fan's feelings....

I'm with you Brockie, i too have no faith in them. These people have let the club become a joke, winning less and less games and a 10th followed by an 11th place finish.

We are now in such a mess we need to bring in a virtually new team with less money to spend, and all because those in charge keep picking the wrong men to manage the team.

Then they let them spend all OUR season ticket money on dross, signings or loans, after paying off the previous dross.

This is not a one season thing, the team has been in free fall for a few seasons now, with bad result after bad result, then the manager leaves, the manager they appointed.

Well the results are there for all to see, lower season ticket sales and begging letter from those who have mismanaged.

[Col2]

Good to see Rod Petrie is prioritising Newco drop into 1st division over player acquisitions, income generation by the club etc etc. Still he managed I find time to write Pat's note though.

[Andy74]

Good to see Rod Petrie is prioritising Newco drop into 1st division over player acquisitions, income generation by the club etc etc. Still he managed I find time to write Pat's note though.

Rod, as non exec Chairman has no day to day involvement in the things you mention.

Still, good to see Rod bashing being your priority over being supportive of your club. :wink:

[Albion Hibs]

The thing here is Matty that this is not just about last season - this is about a build up of bad decisions over the last few seasons.

Hibs fans really haven't been walking away - yes we have lost numbers but many other teams who have had our problems and home form would be in the same situation or possibly worse. Hibs fans have stuck by the team pretty well in some absolute shocking games.

If this had been Rangers for the last few years in our place - are you telling me they would have kept getting 40,000 - 50,000 at each game - no chance those figures would have dropped massively.

Right now is crunch time again - we have a chance to strengthen but those who have lost interest (you can't argue against that) aren't buying in as shown on this thread.

Those who have committed like yourself and myself for next season can't be angry at those who have not committed as really we are the ones with blind faith here.

Don't get me wrong I would love nothing more than seeing ER full or close to full each week but it shouldn't come to the point where dedicated fans like us are having to rally the troops - the people higher up should be actively encouraging people to come out and not just be releasing a couple of statements here and there which not even everybody in the Hibs support has access to reading.

I completely disagree with the bit in bold. Both rangers and celtic, and to a lesser extent hearts have a much bigger and more loyal fan base than we do. Rangers were going down the pan and the sold 10's of thousands of season tickets in advance when supporters had little to no idea where there team was going to be playing / the future of the club - I dread to think how many we would sell.

If people can afford to and want to support hibs then i think they should, the alternative is of course to sit and droll over the EPL and spend hours a day on forums like this, telling everyone about what is wrong with the club and how bad we are when the whole time they only ever see Easter Road when a game is on TV.

If people can afford to and put there hands in the pockets and support the club then fair enough, those who dont should not complain its easy to sit on the fence and crit something that you are not a part of, or chuck out the old classic "its chicken and egg", but the only way you will make a difference is by saying F it win, lose or draw I am going to head down to Easter Road.

Alternatively if you were right in your statement about rangers then there should be plenty of seats through at Ibrox if all people are interest in seeing is a "style of play" or teams winning week in and week out...but that sounds awfully like a glory follower to me.

Pat needs the dosh, folk are in or they are out. if they are out through choice then do everyone a favour and dont spend the rest of the season moaning about it, i will see your chicken and egg and raise you a "if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem"!!

[Baldy Foghorn]

I'm with you Brockie, i too have no faith in them. These people have let the club become a joke, winning less and less games and a 10th followed by an 11th place finish.

We are now in such a mess we need to bring in a virtually new team with less money to spend, and all because those in charge keep picking the wrong men to manage the team.

Then they let them spend all OUR season ticket money on dross, signings or loans, after paying off the previous dross.

This is not a one season thing, the team has been in free fall for a few seasons now, with bad result after bad result, then the manager leaves, the manager they appointed.

Well the results are there for all to see, lower season ticket sales and begging letter from those who have mismanaged.

Agree with the above....I told them at AGM that I had no confidence in them, nine months later my opinion has not altered, although we are worse off. They got the Calderwood situation spectacularly wrong, and now they are placing all the hope on PF being a success....Changes need to be made from the top downwards.....We have been in freefall for years, and don't think the guys at the helm have the foggiest how to clear us away from choppy waters.....We have one of the poorest Hibs squad's in years, and they still want fan investment to enhance the player pool....When will these guys admit responsibility for our failure?

[The Green Goblin]

I appreciate how heartbreaking and soul destroying that final was however personally think we need to look on that as gone and in the past and to be honest if we ignore that game we actually finished the season not too bad all things considered.

I always like your posts Jim, but are you sure about this bit?! We were 90 mins away from relegation, weren't we?

[matty_f]

I always like your posts Jim, but are you sure about this bit?! We were 90 mins away from relegation, weren't we?

We were nearly relegated and we got horsed in a cup final. The reason for this is Fenlon had to piece together a side out of nothing after CC left us in an almighty mess.

If that doesn't tell you that the club, more than ever (post STF's arrival) needs the fans to stand up and be counted (and I use that phrase deliberately) then nothing will.

We are in the brown stuff. Up to our necks in it. We need people to use their money to help get us out of it.

Hibs are run as a business but are not the same as traditional businesses. We are not customers or consumers. We are supporters.

The club needs help. The supporters are the ones best placed to help.

[silverhibee]

Fenlon says he can't use the walk-up money to make signings because we don't know how much it will be. We can't offer a player terms on how many fans might come. We can offer it on guaranteed income, which is the season ticket money, which is why it is so vital that the support backs the club.

FFS, we finished 11th last season and avoided relegation on the second last day of the season. We're seeing a league without Rangers which impacts income... if ever there was a time to put money into the club to improve things, it's NOW.

I do have a very simplistic view of it, for me you've either put the money into the player budget by buying a season ticket, or you haven't. The more people that have, the better we are likely to be. I understand it's not a guarantee, right enough, because teams have spent much more than Hibs and failed, but generally speaking I know that we're unlikely to improve if the playing budget drops from the one that funded a team finishing second bottom.

But that should just not come from the fans all the time Matty, lets be honest here, Hibs are down to near enough the hard core support of about 5000-6000 ST for the new season, when at the last meeting someone asked if STF was willing to invest in the team/club, and i think the answer was something along the lines of "only if the club was in a bad way" well i would say we are in deep do do, how much further do we have to fall before the owner understands that we are in a bad way, it's hear staring us in the face, now is the time for STF to improve things at the club this season and put his money in NOW too along with the fans as well.

At the end of the day STF is the only man with the funds that can change the the team on the pitch, NOW is his chance to make Hibs a proud club again, and yes i know STF has been good for the club and wee will always remember him for the good things he did, but we need his help again, another season like the last one is unthinkable for HFC,.

What i still don't get is how did everyone get tickets for the SCF, if there was 7000 ST holders from last season and they all bought a ticket for the SCF, so 7000 SCF tickets bought but 2000 didn't renew for this season, so say the five thousand that renewed bought two tickets that's 12,000, then there was the folk who bought new ST to get a ticket for the final, maybe say 2000(just a guess), takes it up to 14,000, we sold our end out and we were told there would only be a limited amount put on public sale, sorry forgot about the card scheme thing(maybe 1000), the spin put out by the club was to guarantee a ticket for that horrible day was to get a ST and you would get your ticket for the final, we sold out but seem to have an all time low in ST for the upcoming season, when folk were saying that Hibs have sold double figures for ST on the back of the final and at least we would have some good money to bring in decent players on the back of all the supposedly sold ST for the new season ahead, what happened, were wee giving tickets away, it just doesn't add up, and now we are being told by the manager that we need more fans to buy ST to get good players on the park, as i have said something just doesn't add up, Hibs spin for the SCF, "the only way to get a ticket for the final was to buy a ST and guarantee a seat at the final, demand is high for tickets and the club do not expect there to be a public sale for final as is the demand for tickets is high", to now saying that they are at an all time low for selling ST for the season ahead and now we have the manager pleading with fans to go out and buy a ST to help him build a squad for next season.

It just doesn't add up for me Matty, got my ST for next season, will i go, don't know, i will wait and see where ran@ers are first before i decide if i want to come back and watch Hibs again.

Wee are losing fans in our droves, these fans have probably watched Hibs for a long time, probably longer than the board have, they have been through the Early Bird Scheme, cup top up if you buy early etc etc etc, they have had enough Matty of putting there hard earned money in to Hibs to watch the crap that has been served up to us for the last few seasons, and all the club do is ask us to put our hands in our pockets every season to pay for the the crap we watch, i do understand why people ask STF to put money in to the team, the fans are asked to do it blindly each season, and even if STF is putting money in to the club it is not on the team, and that is the most important thing, a good team. That will hopefully get the fans back Matty, but we need help from our owner to dig us out of a hole that is getting deeper each season that goes on.

Sorry for going on Matty, but the fans club and owner need to turn things around for the best for the season ahead, i just hope that STF finally see's that we are in a bad way and either gives us a loan or a donation for the manager to build a team, the time is NOW, as you say.

[Andy74]

But that should just not come from the fans all the time Matty, lets be honest here, Hibs are down to near enough the hard core support of about 5000-6000 ST for the new season, when at the last meeting someone asked if STF was willing to invest in the team/club, and i think the answer was something along the lines of "only if the club was in a bad way" well i would say we are in deep do do, how much further do we have to fall before the owner understands that we are in a bad way, it's hear staring us in the face, now is the time for STF to improve things at the club this season and put his money in NOW too along with the fans as well.

At the end of the day STF is the only man with the funds that can change the the team on the pitch, NOW is his chance to make Hibs a proud club again, and yes i know STF has been good for the club and wee will always remember him for the good things he did, but we need his help again, another season like the last one is unthinkable for HFC,.

What i still don't get is how did everyone get tickets for the SCF, if there was 7000 ST holders from last season and they all bought a ticket for the SCF, so 7000 SCF tickets bought but 2000 didn't renew for this season, so say the five thousand that renewed bought two tickets that's 12,000, then there was the folk who bought new ST to get a ticket for the final, maybe say 2000(just a guess), takes it up to 14,000, we sold our end out and we were told there would only be a limited amount put on public sale, sorry forgot about the card scheme thing(maybe 1000), the spin put out by the club was to guarantee a ticket for that horrible day was to get a ST and you would get your ticket for the final, we sold out but seem to have an all time low in ST for the upcoming season, when folk were saying that Hibs have sold double figures for ST on the back of the final and at least we would have some good money to bring in decent players on the back of all the supposedly sold ST for the new season ahead, what happened, were wee giving tickets away, it just doesn't add up, and now we are being told by the manager that we need more fans to buy ST to get good players on the park, as i have said something just doesn't add up, Hibs spin for the SCF, "the only way to get a ticket for the final was to buy a ST and guarantee a seat at the final, demand is high for tickets and the club do not expect there to be a public sale for final as is the demand for tickets is high", to now saying that they are at an all time low for selling ST for the season ahead and now we have the manager pleading with fans to go out and buy a ST to help him build a squad for next season.

It just doesn't add up for me Matty, got my ST for next season, will i go, don't know, i will wait and see where ran@ers are first before i decide if i want to come back and watch Hibs again.

Wee are losing fans in our droves, these fans have probably watched Hibs for a long time, probably longer than the board have, they have been through the Early Bird Scheme, cup top up if you buy early etc etc etc, they have had enough Matty of putting there hard earned money in to Hibs to watch the crap that has been served up to us for the last few seasons, and all the club do is ask us to put our hands in our pockets every season to pay for the the crap we watch, i do understand why people ask STF to put money in to the team, the fans are asked to do it blindly each season, and even if STF is putting money in to the club it is not on the team, and that is the most important thing, a good team. That will hopefully get the fans back Matty, but we need help from our owner to dig us out of a hole that is getting deeper each season that goes on.

Sorry for going on Matty, but the fans club and owner need to turn things around for the best for the season ahead, i just hope that STF finally see's that we are in a bad way and either gives us a loan or a donation for the manager to build a team, the time is NOW, as you say.

Why should Sir Tom invest when we the fans, who are the club really, won't bother?

God help us if we were ever fan owned as has been suggested, we'd be absolutely rooked.

Just don't get this sort of thinking, the fans shouldn't pay £400 for a ticket to watch all Hibs games, but Sir Tom should sink in some unsustainable sum to keep us all happy.

[GreenCastle]

I completely disagree with the bit in bold. Both rangers and celtic, and to a lesser extent hearts have a much bigger and more loyal fan base than we do. Rangers were going down the pan and the sold 10's of thousands of season tickets in advance when supporters had little to no idea where there team was going to be playing / the future of the club - I dread to think how many we would sell.

If people can afford to and want to support hibs then i think they should, the alternative is of course to sit and droll over the EPL and spend hours a day on forums like this, telling everyone about what is wrong with the club and how bad we are when the whole time they only ever see Easter Road when a game is on TV.

If people can afford to and put there hands in the pockets and support the club then fair enough, those who dont should not complain its easy to sit on the fence and crit something that you are not a part of, or chuck out the old classic "its chicken and egg", but the only way you will make a difference is by saying F it win, lose or draw I am going to head down to Easter Road.

Alternatively if you were right in your statement about rangers then there should be plenty of seats through at Ibrox if all people are interest in seeing is a "style of play" or teams winning week in and week out...but that sounds awfully like a glory follower to me.

Pat needs the dosh, folk are in or they are out. if they are out through choice then do everyone a favour and dont spend the rest of the season moaning about it, i will see your chicken and egg and raise you a "if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem"!!

Celtic league attendances - success brings fans in - look at the average here and you will see that over the years. Look back to around 1984 - remember It's either been Rangers or Celtic who have won the title since then - http://www.fitbastats.com/celtic/club_records_league_attendance.php

Same applies for Rangers - http://www.fitbastats.com/rangers/club_records_league_attendance.php - even towards the end of last season after the news broke about the club finances there were many empty seats at Ibrox after the initial backing.

The problem your failing to see is that it's not black or white there is more to it than that. We have potential - we have a fan base - stadium and training ground - the only thing missing is success on the pitch.

How do we achieve that - several different ways, but the fact is Hibs are losing ST holders all the time as not enough is being done to retain them or even entice them to keep renewing.

No one follows Hibs to be a glory hunter - that would be ridiculous but fans expect the basics. The basics of a team haven't been seen at ER recently and you could go and watch a youth game or a Spartans home game and see more commitment and better football than the wage thieves at ER.

This is not complaining or sitting on the fence - I like many others have been backing Hibs over the years and getting down to ER, away games and supporting the team - but with little or no return. I have suggested in other posts on this thread of what Hibs should b doing - giving solutions.

Regarding your problems of Hibs not selling season tickets - what are your solutions to raise the numbers? Simply coming on here and saying Pat deserves the money and if you can afford to then get a ticket is too simplistic and won't see a rise - you just need to read the responses on here to see what people are asking.

[silverhibee]

Does anyone remember when we were told things would be much better with a new training centre, and a finished stadium. Remember how we had nothing else to pay for, and all the money would go on the team?

When do the good times start?


Remember it well BH, the grounds finished and the training centre in place, so when does all the money go on the team, not this year, we would have made a nice sum for our run in the SC TV money and merchandise but that is being spent on other things more important than the team it seems.

Time for our Owner to dig deep in to his pockets and get a decent team worth coming along to ER to watch, and not expect the fans to pay for everything, its his club, and if he wants to see it do well then he has to make an investment in to the team, simply enough he does have the money to do it, the normal Hibs fan doesn't, they are struggling to come up with £405 because times are hard and the team they support is tom kite, the club/owner need to blink first.

Everything is in place now, time for STF to invest in the team. If not we could be watching a Hibs team against St Mirren at ER next season on a Sunday lunch time kick-off in front of a crowd of about 4000 fans.

[matty_f]

But that should just not come from the fans all the time Matty, lets be honest here, Hibs are down to near enough the hard core support of about 5000-6000 ST for the new season, when at the last meeting someone asked if STF was willing to invest in the team/club, and i think the answer was something along the lines of "only if the club was in a bad way" well i would say we are in deep do do, how much further do we have to fall before the owner understands that we are in a bad way, it's hear staring us in the face, now is the time for STF to improve things at the club this season and put his money in NOW too along with the fans as well.

At the end of the day STF is the only man with the funds that can change the the team on the pitch, NOW is his chance to make Hibs a proud club again, and yes i know STF has been good for the club and wee will always remember him for the good things he did, but we need his help again, another season like the last one is unthinkable for HFC,.

What i still don't get is how did everyone get tickets for the SCF, if there was 7000 ST holders from last season and they all bought a ticket for the SCF, so 7000 SCF tickets bought but 2000 didn't renew for this season, so say the five thousand that renewed bought two tickets that's 12,000, then there was the folk who bought new ST to get a ticket for the final, maybe say 2000(just a guess), takes it up to 14,000, we sold our end out and we were told there would only be a limited amount put on public sale, sorry forgot about the card scheme thing(maybe 1000), the spin put out by the club was to guarantee a ticket for that horrible day was to get a ST and you would get your ticket for the final, we sold out but seem to have an all time low in ST for the upcoming season, when folk were saying that Hibs have sold double figures for ST on the back of the final and at least we would have some good money to bring in decent players on the back of all the supposedly sold ST for the new season ahead, what happened, were wee giving tickets away, it just doesn't add up, and now we are being told by the manager that we need more fans to buy ST to get good players on the park, as i have said something just doesn't add up, Hibs spin for the SCF, "the only way to get a ticket for the final was to buy a ST and guarantee a seat at the final, demand is high for tickets and the club do not expect there to be a public sale for final as is the demand for tickets is high", to now saying that they are at an all time low for selling ST for the season ahead and now we have the manager pleading with fans to go out and buy a ST to help him build a squad for next season.

It just doesn't add up for me Matty, got my ST for next season, will i go, don't know, i will wait and see where ran@ers are first before i decide if i want to come back and watch Hibs again.

Wee are losing fans in our droves, these fans have probably watched Hibs for a long time, probably longer than the board have, they have been through the Early Bird Scheme, cup top up if you buy early etc etc etc, they have had enough Matty of putting there hard earned money in to Hibs to watch the crap that has been served up to us for the last few seasons, and all the club do is ask us to put our hands in our pockets every season to pay for the the crap we watch, i do understand why people ask STF to put money in to the team, the fans are asked to do it blindly each season, and even if STF is putting money in to the club it is not on the team, and that is the most important thing, a good team. That will hopefully get the fans back Matty, but we need help from our owner to dig us out of a hole that is getting deeper each season that goes on.

Sorry for going on Matty, but the fans club and owner need to turn things around for the best for the season ahead, i just hope that STF finally see's that we are in a bad way and either gives us a loan or a donation for the manager to build a team, the time is NOW, as you say.


How much more can they put in Silver, we're spending more than is coming in as it is, which is unsustainable in the long term.

[silverhibee]

That awkward moment when you accuse someone of snorting vinegar only to find out it is someone completely different in the photo!

And its not really vinegar but a kebab they are snorting. :greengrin

[silverhibee]

We were nearly relegated and we got horsed in a cup final. The reason for this is Fenlon had to piece together a side out of nothing after CC left us in an almighty mess.

If that doesn't tell you that the club, more than ever (post STF's arrival) needs the fans to stand up and be counted (and I use that phrase deliberately) then nothing will.

We are in the brown stuff. Up to our necks in it. We need people to use their money to help get us out of it.

Hibs are run as a business but are not the same as traditional businesses. We are not customers or consumers. We are supporters.

The club needs help. The supporters are the ones best placed to help.


Are the Owner and board supporters of HFC.

[silverhibee]

Why should Sir Tom invest when we the fans, who are the club really, won't bother?

God help us if we were ever fan owned as has been suggested, we'd be absolutely rooked.

Just don't get this sort of thinking, the fans shouldn't pay £400 for a ticket to watch all Hibs games, but Sir Tom should sink in some unsustainable sum to keep us all happy.


Because he owns the club, he invested in the paying for most of the Stadium, so he owns a club that has the second best ground in the SPL with state of the art training centre, but one of the worst teams in the SPL to watch, surely that was not his plan, so he has the money to change things on the playing side and bring decent players to the club by giving the manager money to invest in a decent team to watch.

He has the money to do it there is no getting away from that, and for all the money he has invested in the club(which i don't know how much that is) does he want to see that investment all nice and new with only a couple of thousand fans sitting in it each home game, he needs to invest in the team or get rid of the board that keep bleeping it up every season by bringing in dud managers, after the carry-on with Calderwood and Petrie backing him all the way was a kick in the teeth to the fans and then Petrie backed him again with his selective statement about CC stats, our owner should have shown the both of them the door for the way the messed the fans about at the time, but what happens, CC goes and our Owner tells us he wishes he had a 100 Rod Petries working for him, i bet he wouldn't be saying that if he worked for Auto Care, he would be out on his arse.

Time for our Owner to invest in the team. He has the wealth to do so.

I have invested in 2 ST for next season.

[silverhibee]

How much more can they put in Silver, we're spending more than is coming in as it is, which is unsustainable in the long term.

As much as the Owner wants too.