Message From Pat - Your Club Needs You. [Archive] - Page 2

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Franck Stanton

28-06-2012, 03:14 PM

Agreed. I thought that the SC Final ticket program would have resulted in more ST sales.

The amount of s/t sold on back of the s/c final has nothing to do with the statement by the club - they are saying that of the ammount of season tickets purchased last year, there are 2,500 not renewed - those purchased by supporters to get a c/f ticket would not have been listed as s/t holders last year and therefore do not effect the total from last seasons list as they weren't on it.

Andy74

28-06-2012, 03:33 PM

The amount of s/t sold on back of the s/c final has nothing to do with the statement by the club - they are saying that of the ammount of season tickets purchased last year, there are 2,500 not renewed - those purchased by supporters to get a c/f ticket would not have been listed as s/t holders last year and therefore do not effect the total from last seasons list as they weren't on it.

Scott Lindsay confirmed to the forum last week that this is the total that they are down from last year. There are currently about 5,000 sweason tickets sold.

I don't believe that many totally new people bought season tickets to get a final ticket anyway. Just far less would have renewed without that so thanks good ness that the manager got us there.

Andy74

28-06-2012, 03:35 PM

As much as the Owner wants too.

Again, if no more than 5,000 fans will put their money in, for a ticket that lets them see the games, why should the owner?

TornadoHibby

28-06-2012, 03:35 PM

Why should Sir Tom invest when we the fans, who are the club really, won't bother?

God help us if we were ever fan owned as has been suggested, we'd be absolutely rooked.

Just don't get this sort of thinking, the fans shouldn't pay £400 for a ticket to watch all Hibs games, but Sir Tom should sink in some unsustainable sum to keep us all happy.

Simple really! :rolleyes:

STF appointed RP who along with the Board have made a bad job of the last few managers consigning the club to the player pool position we have suffered over the past few years, possibly as far back as since JC left! :agree:

Any other business under-achieving to that extent due to poor Executive decisions would be changing those responsible for the poor decisions and funding those selected to replace them to rectify the errors previously made all of which were outwith the control of the most important stakeholder in the HFC situation, namely the fans! :agree:

STF should fund the Club sufficiently to allow the playing staff to be brought to a level which will produce football and results which the fans will want to see regularly and that will encourage others to regularly attend also IMO! Anything less won't get the bums on seats that PF has asked for! :confused::confused:

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28-06-2012, 03:40 PM

Rather than the constant online fighting between fans who have renewed, not renewed - won't renew etc.

The bottom line shows there are several big issues still needing sorted at Hibs if we are to progress.

1. Fenlon and his scouting network must look to bring in hard working, talented players who care for the club. Think about changing the wage salary cap Hibs have - more of a slanted salary scale than a general amount leading to several average players. (all still done within the budget obviously).

2. The team once these players have been brought in - must show they will progress as a "team" and do their talking on the pitch. None of the constant indiscipline we have seen over the last few years off the pitch either - GOC / Riordan / LG etc and rubbish posted in the Evening News about turning things around etc. Just go out and win games every so often.

3. The board need to realise they are very close to a MASSIVE revolt - I know RP reads these pages and even has an account and he has to take note. It's going to take a long time to mend the recent final and performance and it could be as soon as the 2nd game of the season again the yams if the performance levels haven't improved. By the time the AGM comes around it could turn very ugly for STF / RP and the board.

4. The board need to learn from comments on this thread and in the past and actually do something different. Re-open the payment plan, allow a Direct Debit subscription, Offer half season ticket for the first half of the season - loyalty points for all those hibs.net uberfans, 5 game plans etc. Surely they have some ideas to get a sense of excitement for fans to buy tickets again.

5. Change the pricing structure - different prices for different parts of the ground - as mentioned before it's not value for money. Your asking people to pay to watch a squad currently with no captain, no 1st choice GK, CH, CM or strikers who will score goals?! It would have been hard enough for some fans to renew after the final with the same squad - but add to that many of those playing won't be here next year and we are left with even more dross than previous times. Who as fans are we looking forward to watching - who will the fans relate to or future generations want to be like when they get older - McPake was the start but seems he may not be back.

6. Link in with the community and get the Hibs name out there - more work in Schools. More visits by the players to local clubs. Advertising around the city (I saw the yams had a billboard on Telford Road for ST's). Just do a little more to build the bridges back which have been broken over the last few years.

7. Connect with the long term fans - the ones who you shouldn't be losing but if you read this thread you are. Make them feel wanted again and get them back - these are the core and will have future generations coming back. Ideally recognise you will lose them before they go as it's always harder to get them back.

I will leave it at 7 as that's a good number :wink: but seriously Hibs sort yourself out. We have had one of the worst results / performances in living history - you have done the common sense decision and voted newco not into the SPL if you want a stadium packed and supporting the team like the Pars game at the end of the season find ways to get fans into the ground better and sort the relationships out with fans that have lost the faith.

P.S I have a season ticket for next year - I will probably use my free shirt offer after buying the away top and give money to the club but I still think the way we do things needs drastically changed as I know I am still angry and hurting about the way the clubs been run the last few years but there are many more who give more who have given up and many who will give up soon if no return is produced.

:top marksHUGE amount of common good sense in here.

I notice on another thread folks prophesying that the club will announce THREE new signings tomorrow. Well, we'll see, but that sort of rumour's been going around since the end of the season and a lot of us aren't very enthused by it. Rumours and promises are cheap. Time to see players actually beginning to arrive at the club.

I think what some of the younger supporters forget is that the old stagers like myself have been through this before. My father was disgusted by the way Hibs treated certain players in the late '50's and early '60's. Gordon Sbith, Bobby Johnstone and Joe Baker - all for different reasons come to my mind. Selling Joe to Torino to avoid giving him an extra £5 a week in his pay packet was the last straw. Dad didn't stop listening for the Hibs results on the TV, and he didn't stop me going to ER, but he wouldn't give the club another penny as long as he lived.

I watched the Tornadoes team being dismantled in the 70's as a result of mismanagement and bad decisions on the part of board and manager. Things became so bad we were eventually relegated after the very worst season I can ever remember. (That was the season George Best played for us - when he was vertical and half-sober, that is.) Next season I was back at ER.

I remember the times under Bertie Auld, under Stanton and Blackley, under Kenny Waugh. I kept turning up.

I've had to sit through the Duff/Gray/Mercer/Rowlands affair wondering if the club was going to survive. I continued to support the club.

More relegation in the 1990's. Still there.

Now after five years of slow decline with the board and owner apparently unconcerned and unmoved by what many of us could see happening as plainly as we could see the noses on our own faces, maybe I've just had enough. Maybe it's time to find something else to do with the time I spend on Hibs.

But it's taken me 50 years to get here. The fact that I'm posting this tells me I REALLY don't want to go. I'm just utterly fed up with empty promises and BS and the feeling I'm being asked to be loyal to people who may very well not deserve my loyalty.

So after 50 years, I don't appreciate being lectured by people about 'loyalty' and 'rallying round the club' right now.

The BOARD are the people who control and who therefore can change the situation at Hibs - all the supporters can do is turn up to support the team. But if in doing so we simply prolong the time the board persist in the policies of the last five years, I don't see how on earth that can improve the long-term future of the club.

THERE HAVE TO BE CHANGES, AND IT'S STF, RP AND THE BOARD WHO CAN BRING THOSE CHANGES TO PASS. ONLY THEM.

If the board were to address your seven points, NJ, and we were to see genuine signs of a fresh start and new deal at ER for the new season, then even I might just be daft enough to believe it and turn up.

What you're saying - a lot more intelligently and coherently than I - is what I've been saying off and on for months now. There's something in the state and culture of Hibernian FC that needs addressing urgently. There are signs that Pat Fenlon is doing this, but he's only the team manager - it has to come from the board, the CEO and the owner as well. It'll take more than a few 'fans consultations', too, though at least they're a start

Hibs have to get rid of complacency, stop looking back to glory days that'll never return, stop assuming we have a right to respect we haven't earned, stop acting like the proverbial rabbit in the headlights, and start building a corporate team and club structure that will take us forward for the next 30-40 years whatever happens in Scottish or British football as a whole.

The frame is in place - East Mains, the new Easter Road, and a reasonably stable financial base. Now we need a team to grace the stadium, and we need to be looking for more investment , more resources, more friends in the community and in the sport to help the club grow.

That way the legacy of STF and RP will be secured. Right now they're in dnager of going down in the histories as the men who let Hibs die.

Tom Hart RIP

28-06-2012, 04:00 PM

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28-06-2012, 04:52 PM

Great post Doddie.

I am also totally pissed off with the way we are treated now. I remember all those times too although I agree breaking up the Tornadoes was a disaster at least the board and manager were trying to improve.

Signing Joe Harper for a Scottish record didn't work but at least we tried.

Personally I think RP has done OK but the problem started when he got too involved with SFA business and left the club in the hands of Hyland and Lindsay and paying them a fortune to get us into this mess.

I remember coming away from the 6-1 Cup Final absolutely gutted, and I also remember a lot of talk about folks never going back.

BUT....

The difference between then and May 19 was that we KNEW that however much we the fans were hurting, the players were hurting too.

AND that Ned T was hurting.

AND that Tom Hart was hurting.

And that something would be done.

Did YOU feel that Pat Fenlon was hurting on the 19th? YES.

STF and RP? TO BE FAIR, I THINK THEY ALMOST CERTAINLY WERE.

But the players? THOUGHT NOT.

The fact that Turnbull's Tornadoes were a very good team - infinitely better than Fenlon's Failures - was a comfort, and that it wasn't a false comfort was proved right from the start of the next season.

Remember the Drybrough semi at ER when we gutted the Hun 3-0? Wimps don't play like that.

The final on the Saturday? 3-1 up, Celtic get back to 3-3? Everyone expecting a Hibee collapse? 5-3 aet Hibs.

And then the LC Final in November.

There's nothing like sitting in the pub after a game like that Cup Final and realising you still have a team with Onion, Shades, Paddy, Cilla, Sloop, Mickey, Seamus, Crops, Nijinsky in it. Not to mention Herriot the Mad Goalie and Alan 'Unquestionably The Best Centre-Forward In The League At The Time' Gordon. (I can't remember what their nick-names were. Gettin auld.)

But when did we fans last identify with a Hibs team to that extent? The nick-names, I mean.

I hope you're right about RP's involvement with the SFA, Hyland and Lindsay. If you are, then hopefully he'll start taking notice again and get us back on track.

But until then, I maintain my right to moan as long and as loud as I choose to, and no weedy wee 15-year man's gonnae tell me otherwise. :cb

Andy74

28-06-2012, 04:55 PM

I remember coming away from the 6-1 Cup Final absolutely gutted, and I also remember a lot of talk about folks never going back.

BUT....

The difference between then and May 19 was that we KNEW that however much we the fans were hurting, the players were hurting too.

AND that Ned T was hurting.

AND that Tom Hart was hurting.

And that something would be done.

Did YOU feel that the players were hurting on May 19? NO.

Fenlon? MAYBE.

STF and RP? MAYBE.

And THERE's the rub - MAYBE.

The fact that Turnbull's Tornadoes were a very good team - infinitely better than Fenlon's Failures - was a comfort, and that it wasn't a false comfort was proved right from the start of the next season.

Remember the Drybrough semi at ER when we gutted the Hun 3-0? Wimps don't play like that.

The final on the Saturday? 3-1 up, Celtic get back to 3-3? Everyone expecting a Hibee collapse? 5-3 aet Hibs.

And then the LC Final in November.

There's nothing like sitting in the pub after a game like that Cup Final and realising you still have a team with Onion, Shades, Paddy, Cilla, Sloop, Mickey, Seamus, Crops, Nijinsky in it. Not to mention Herriot the Mad Goalie and Alan 'Unquestionably The Best Centre-Forward In The League At The Time' Gordon. (I can't remember what their nick-names were. Gettin auld.)

I hope you're right about RP's involvement with the SFA, Hyland and Lindsay. If you are, then hopefully he'll start taking notice again and get us back on track.

But until then, I maintain my right to moan as long and as loud as I choose to, and no weedy wee 15-year man's gonnae tell me otherwise. :cb

To be fair to Fenlon you'd have to put Fenlon down as more than a maybe. He said it was the worst day of his career.

You certainly can't fault that guy for not working hard or caring about what he is doing. I hope he instills it in everyone that he brings to the club. He certainly sounds like he plans to.

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28-06-2012, 04:58 PM

To be fair to Fenlon you'd have to put Fenlon down as more than a maybe. He said it was the worst day of his career.

You certainly can't fault that guy for not working hard or caring about what he is doing. I hope he instills it in everyone that he brings to the club. He certainly sounds like he plans to.

Absolutely right, Andy - the guy was gutted.

Maybe the one single positive about the whole ghastly experience.

I will edit accordingly. :aok:

Andy74

28-06-2012, 05:02 PM

Absolutely right, Andy - the guy was gutted.

Maybe the one single positive about the whole ghastly experience.
I will edit accordingly. :aok:

That and the fact I wasn't there and was able to shut off the ipad, pretend it was all a dream and return to the pool with a large cocktail. :greengrin

Just_Jimmy

28-06-2012, 05:08 PM

Absolutely right, Andy - the guy was gutted.

Maybe the one single positive about the whole ghastly experience.

I will edit accordingly. :aok:

For me the only single thing to come from that day was the shift from calderwood to Paddy. I love Paddy, he may not be a success yet at Hibs but that wont be because he hasb't given it everything he has or that he didn't care as was the case with Calderwood.

Pat looks like a man who knows what this club means to many of us and desperately wants to deliver. I love him for caring, if the players had half his commitment to Hibs we'd be in a much better place.

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28-06-2012, 05:09 PM

That and the fact I wasn't there and was able to shut off the ipad, pretend it was all a dream and return to the pool with a large cocktail. :greengrin

Wise man you were.

Baldy Foghorn

28-06-2012, 05:16 PM

We were nearly relegated and we got horsed in a cup final. The reason for this is Fenlon had to piece together a side out of nothing after CC left us in an almighty mess.

If that doesn't tell you that the club, more than ever (post STF's arrival) needs the fans to stand up and be counted (and I use that phrase deliberately) then nothing will.

We are in the brown stuff. Up to our necks in it. We need people to use their money to help get us out of it.

Hibs are run as a business but are not the same as traditional businesses. We are not customers or consumers. We are supporters.

The club needs help. The supporters are the ones best placed to help.

We need the Custodians of our Club to Stand up and be Counted IMO

Why should Sir Tom invest when we the fans, who are the club really, won't bother?

God help us if we were ever fan owned as has been suggested, we'd be absolutely rooked.

Just don't get this sort of thinking, the fans shouldn't pay £400 for a ticket to watch all Hibs games, but Sir Tom should sink in some unsustainable sum to keep us all happy.

Or turn it around Andy, if STF won't bother investing, why should the fans???

degenerated

28-06-2012, 05:27 PM

joe breezy

28-06-2012, 05:29 PM

Baldy Foghorn

28-06-2012, 05:38 PM

They appear to have decided that they need sky and rangers more than they need fans so for the first time in about 20 years I won't be buying a season ticket and in fact probably won't even bother going back.

A sad day for Scottish Football degenerated, however, it just won't be you and other Hibs fans that walkaway, I foresee it being fans of every other club outwith the OF, this is thoroughly depressing how little every other team means to SFA.....Total corruption....

BarneyK

28-06-2012, 05:40 PM

blackpoolhibs

28-06-2012, 05:41 PM

gramskiwood

28-06-2012, 05:48 PM

Same here

Me too :boo hoo:

WhileTheChief..

28-06-2012, 05:51 PM

Have the club done anything to suggest that this transfer window will be any better than the last couple of years?

How many ST ticket sales were used to cover the cost of the CC debacle?

The same folk advocating others to buy a ST now were probably saying the same thing last year and that didn't exactly work out too well.

The fans have more than played there part over the years so for those not renewing to be branded as part of the problem is just daft. Maybe if we saw some financial backing form the top then others would follow?

I hadn't bought a ST for a few years but when we signed Stokes i thought fair play, the clubs' doing its bit so I'll do mine.

I could go buy one tomorrow and it will cover what, Sproule's wages for half a week or something??

The only reason I will get one this year is because the club is struggling so much and for voting no to newco. I doubt it will get used much.

cabbageandribs1875

28-06-2012, 05:52 PM

GTF SPL chairmen, special mention for RP, ram yer season tickets, i've just burnt my false RP 'tache' paper cut-out , stamped on it, and chucked it oot the windae :aok: U ****** **** YI

PS. i would just like to point out i don't actually buy season tickets and much prefer PATG

G-Reg

28-06-2012, 05:54 PM

Do the same post showing how much money these clubs make each year from TV money and I'll be a bit more impressed.

I’m glad you brought up TV money that’s always the first thing people say when debating this. The thing is TV money is only one of many revenue streams available to clubs and it is the one that they can do little to influence as individual establishments, it’s the league as a whole package that dictates the value international and national broadcasting rights.
The one revenue stream Hibs have at their disposal is the second biggest stadium in our domestic top flight 20,421 seats which acts as a massive advantage over clubs with less. I am extremely happy that our club is run as a sustainable business but the club must have someone who’s sole job is to increase attendance and overall revenue from bums on seats.
I’ll try keep this as short as i can! When running a football club as a business you must aim to maximise your average sale per customer (in retail this is often referred to as average basket). The way to work this out is to add up ALL the revenue from ticket sales last season ST/PATG/Corporate and concession and divide it between the number of seats available that season (if anyone can help me get these figures I’ll work it out). Our average attendance last year was 9,909 that means 51.48% of our total available seats stayed empty when a fan (or customer in retail terms) could have sat in it. The trick is to find your magic number and yet again this should be someone at ER’s job! it’s all about lowering the price to make it accessible to people with less income but at the same time keeping the total income from tickets the same or better than the previous year. In Layman’s terms if a Baker makes 10 birthday cakes and sells 1 for £10 and the other 9 go to waste (like the empty seats) his total gross turnover is £10, but if the following week he makes another 10 and reduces the price to £2 each and sells all 10 he has doubled his turnover and has no cakes left, he then can put the price up by a pound a week until he hits a tipping point where he gets as close to selling them all for the maximum possible price....this is his MAGIC NUMBER.

UEFA ranks the SPL as the 18th best league in Europe and we finished one place above the relegation spot in our league as did all the teams I have listed below. I checked every league on this list and the price of their cheapest adult season ticket (the blank ones I couldn’t find the info on......can anyone help?). So as BOVRIL and gatecrasher pointed out after my last post TV money may impact on the clubs ability to reduce season tickets but the table below indicates that this may not be the case.

The point in this is not to snipe at each other but put our heads together to hopefully help the club maximise income.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1076/uefarankings.jpg
By mrgu82 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/mrgu82) at 2012-06-28

Below is also a diagram showing the avarage price of attending an SPL match based on buying the same products at each venue
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7026/splwf.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/266/splwf.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Given our final position and the fact we have the 4th highest average attendance and the most expensive ground to visit it begs the question does our policy of using season ticket money for squad devolvement work? And what are smaller clubs doing differently that worked for them last year?

Bostonhibby

28-06-2012, 06:05 PM

A sad day for Scottish Football degenerated, however, it just won't be you and other Hibs fans that walkaway, I foresee it being fans of every other club outwith the OF, this is thoroughly depressing how little every other team means to SFA.....Total corruption....

:agree: I don't have a season ticket now because of distance but I spend quite a bit on walk ups merchandise etc to support the club but how the authorities deal with Der Hun is really beginning to have an impact on Scottish football in general and Hibs in particular in my small circle of Hibs friends and family. I know of 6 people who are nailed on to renew normally and each of them have held off for that one reason. None of them are happy with it but as one says, he might be hurting Hibs a bit but some of the possible scenarios will hurt them even more in the long run if the Hun thing is fudged. I feel most will renew or pay to go but the latter will be to participate in any protests there might be initially.

At the moment I don't feel like supporting the SFA/SPL at all but it will break my heart to lose interest in Hibs because of it. Don't care how bad we actually are on the pitch, I will turn up but this one could be the final straw unless the club are openly hostile to anything other than newco in - if they have to be in at all - at the lowest level and no compromise on the penalties imposed.

silverhibee

28-06-2012, 06:06 PM

Corruption is the EXACT word BF, they dont give a toss about the rest of Scottish football. IMO If they bring this in it will mean part time football in the SPL within 2-3 years.

More than likely BH, if this goes through thousands will turn there back on the game, what would be the point in going to watch something that only panders for two clubs winning and getting there own way with anything they want through being corrupt.

New stadium just finished, will be lucky if there are 2000 at home games in a couple of years time, which will have the knock on effect that we would no longer be able to run EM, and it would have to be put up for sale for a cut down price as who would want to buy a training centre, no one as i believe you can't get planning permission to build houses or anything like that on it, so it would only be of use to another football team, and there won't be any left. :rolleyes:

Is there any good news FFS. :greengrin

HibbyAndy

28-06-2012, 06:09 PM

Over and out.

Im done.

truehibernian

28-06-2012, 06:11 PM

More than likely BH, if this goes through thousands will turn there back on the game, what would be the point in going to watch something that only panders for two clubs winning and getting there own way with anything they want through being corrupt.

New stadium just finished, will be lucky if there are 2000 at home games in a couple of years time, which will have the knock on effect that we would no longer be able to run EM, and it would have to be put up for sale for a cut down price as who would want to buy a training centre, no one as i believe you can't get planning permission to build houses or anything like that on it, so it would only be of use to another football team, and there won't be any left. :rolleyes:

Is there any good news FFS. :greengrin

There is indeed SH......Marks & Spencer have giant easter egg style walnut whips instore. Will I get you one to celebrate Jimmy's loan :-)

They are immense......the size of a bloody Dalek !

Tom Hart RIP

28-06-2012, 06:14 PM

I remember coming away from the 6-1 Cup Final absolutely gutted, and I also remember a lot of talk about folks never going back.

BUT....

The difference between then and May 19 was that we KNEW that however much we the fans were hurting, the players were hurting too.

AND that Ned T was hurting.

AND that Tom Hart was hurting.

And that something would be done.

Did YOU feel that Pat Fenlon was hurting on the 19th? YES.

STF and RP? TO BE FAIR, I THINK THEY ALMOST CERTAINLY WERE.

But the players? THOUGHT NOT.

The fact that Turnbull's Tornadoes were a very good team - infinitely better than Fenlon's Failures - was a comfort, and that it wasn't a false comfort was proved right from the start of the next season.

Remember the Drybrough semi at ER when we gutted the Hun 3-0? Wimps don't play like that.

The final on the Saturday? 3-1 up, Celtic get back to 3-3? Everyone expecting a Hibee collapse? 5-3 aet Hibs.

And then the LC Final in November.

There's nothing like sitting in the pub after a game like that Cup Final and realising you still have a team with Onion, Shades, Paddy, Cilla, Sloop, Mickey, Seamus, Crops, Nijinsky in it. Not to mention Herriot the Mad Goalie and Alan 'Unquestionably The Best Centre-Forward In The League At The Time' Gordon. (I can't remember what their nick-names were. Gettin auld.)

But when did we fans last identify with a Hibs team to that extent? The nick-names, I mean.

I hope you're right about RP's involvement with the SFA, Hyland and Lindsay. If you are, then hopefully he'll start taking notice again and get us back on track.

But until then, I maintain my right to moan as long and as loud as I choose to, and no weedy wee 15-year man's gonnae tell me otherwise. :cb

I think Alan Gordon was 'Tosh' and Cropley was Sodjer cos his dad was in army and he was born in Aldershot.
I was in the shed when we beat Rangers 3-0 in the Dryborough Cup semi final and the huns went mental. The worst fight I ever saw at ER. They ended up shutting the shed then putting seats in, but what a performance.
Eddie Turnbull said after the 6-1 game that we would be back and WIN next time and he was right. We won three out of the next four cup finals, beating Celtic each time.
Great days eh?

Andy74

28-06-2012, 06:25 PM

We need the Custodians of our Club to Stand up and be Counted IMO

Or turn it around Andy, if STF won't bother investing, why should the fans???

Because the only really sustainable way to run a football club is to be self sufficient.

basehibby

28-06-2012, 06:28 PM

I simply cannot afford a ST at this moment in time but I support the manager's statement and would encourage all Hibees that CAN afford it to give Fenlon the best possible chance of success by investing in a ST.

It IS a bit chicken and egg though for many people and no amount of philosiphying will change that. Good signings DO send out a message that the club means business and this in turn will help to put bums on seats.

Baldy Foghorn

28-06-2012, 06:32 PM

Because the only really sustainable way to run a football club is to be self sufficient.

Given our 10th and 11th place finishes in last two seasons, we are struggling to get fans through the gates, until a winning team is assembled. Now with Derhun situation, even more fans will be lost. Self sufficient maybe, but will we see European Football, Cup Finals etc again?

blackpoolhibs

28-06-2012, 06:46 PM

Given our 10th and 11th place finishes in last two seasons, we are struggling to get fans through the gates, until a winning team is assembled. Now with Derhun situation, even more fans will be lost. Self sufficient maybe, but will we see European Football, Cup Finals etc again?

Instead of the club reacting with cash we seem to find when things are going pear shaped. Why dont they spend this cash before things go wrong?

basehibby

28-06-2012, 07:29 PM

I’m glad you brought up TV money that’s always the first thing people say when debating this. The thing is TV money is only one of many revenue streams available to clubs and it is the one that they can do little to influence as individual establishments, it’s the league as a whole package that dictates the value international and national broadcasting rights.
The one revenue stream Hibs have at their disposal is the second biggest stadium in our domestic top flight 20,421 seats which acts as a massive advantage over clubs with less. I am extremely happy that our club is run as a sustainable business but the club must have someone who’s sole job is to increase attendance and overall revenue from bums on seats.
I’ll try keep this as short as i can! When running a football club as a business you must aim to maximise your average sale per customer (in retail this is often referred to as average basket). The way to work this out is to add up ALL the revenue from ticket sales last season ST/PATG/Corporate and concession and divide it between the number of seats available that season (if anyone can help me get these figures I’ll work it out). Our average attendance last year was 9,909 that means 51.48% of our total available seats stayed empty when a fan (or customer in retail terms) could have sat in it. The trick is to find your magic number and yet again this should be someone at ER’s job! it’s all about lowering the price to make it accessible to people with less income but at the same time keeping the total income from tickets the same or better than the previous year. In Layman’s terms if a Baker makes 10 birthday cakes and sells 1 for £10 and the other 9 go to waste (like the empty seats). His total gross turnover is £10 but if the following week he makes another 10 and reduces the price to £2 each and sells all 10 he has doubled his turnover and has no cakes left, he then can put the price up by a pound a week until he hits a tipping point where he gets as close to selling them all for the maximum possible price....this is his MAGIC NUMBER.

UEFA ranks the SPL as the 18th best league in Europe and we finished one place above the relegation spot in our league as did all the teams I have listed below. I checked every league on this list and the price of their cheapest adult season ticket (the blank ones I couldn’t find the info on......can anyone help?). So as BOVRIL and gatecrasher pointed out after my last post TV money may impact on the clubs ability to reduce season tickets.
The point in this is not to snipe at each other but put our heads together to hopefully help the club maximise income.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1076/uefarankings.jpg
By mrgu82 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/mrgu82) at 2012-06-28

Below is also a diagram showing the avarage price of attending and SPL match based on buying the same products at each venue
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7026/splwf.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/266/splwf.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Given our final position and the fact we have the 4th highest average attendance and the most expensive ground to visit it begs the question does our policy of using season ticket money for squad devolvement work? And what are smaller clubs doing differently that worked for them last year?

You make some great points here - we are grossly overcharged for EVERYTHING at ER - regardless of league position. This leaves a bad taste in the mouth and certainly does NOT encourage occasional attendees to make it a habit - particularly when the football on the park has been often terrible over the last couple of seasons. I'm of the opinion that more people would buy programs and snacks if the prices were not totally OTT for what are anything but top quality products.
More importantly, I think the same would work for STs - an awful lot more walk up fans would consider getting a ST if they could make a clear saving on the deal. At present IIRC the ST deal equates to one free match a season - if you can manage to get to all the home fixtures of course, which a great many people find nigh on impossible.
If the ST deal represented a more significant saving - say 4 free games, and maybe 5 if you purchase early enough - I'm pretty sure a lot more fans would be swayed as it would make financial sense as well as making a commitment to supporting the Hibs.

cabbageandribs1875

28-06-2012, 07:35 PM

Given our final position and the fact we have the 4th highest average attendance and the most expensive ground to visit it begs the question does our policy of using season ticket money for squad devolvement work? And what are smaller clubs doing differently that worked for them last year?[/QUOTE]

ER the dearest(cheapest) in the SPL, absolutely ****** scandalous, RP really is taking the p@sh out of hibs fans, incredible, still, at least we are top of the league i guess

Lucius Apuleius

28-06-2012, 07:42 PM

Could you do the tables sgain reflecting cat a games as a matter of interest?

Baldy Foghorn

28-06-2012, 08:20 PM

Instead of the club reacting with cash we seem to find when things are going pear shaped. Why dont they spend this cash before things go wrong?

When I asked SL about STF investment, he mentioned that STF wanted us to be self sufficient, and that STF would only intervene when things were really bad.......Not sure what constitutes really bad, after 10th and 11th placings and the mother of all humiliations in May....

blackpoolhibs

28-06-2012, 08:22 PM

When I asked SL about STF investment, he mentioned that STF wanted us to be self sufficient, and that STF would only intervene when things were really bad.......Not sure what constitutes really bad, after 10th and 11th placings and the mother of all humiliations in May....

Perhaps they must think everything is fine? :dunno:

The Green Goblin

28-06-2012, 08:23 PM

Not sure what constitutes really bad, after 10th and 11th placings and the mother of all humiliations in May....

A mass walkaway by fans when it's revealed our club were heavily involved in a deal to allow the newhuns into div 1?

BT58

28-06-2012, 08:35 PM

If the board had said that they would add 50% to season ticket monies,, wouldnt there be more season sales???
It would seem that the board are looking at the fans to back PF
after the debacle of the last 2 seasons,, PF surely has to be backed by more than the fans cash,, the board must realise that after the cup final many fans are totally dissatisfied and
Will be possibly lost forever

G-Reg

28-06-2012, 08:41 PM

Could you do the tables sgain reflecting cat a games as a matter of interest?

The last table was a well put together survey by the BBC asking every club in the UK, the red prices on the left shows cat a matches. The first table took around 5 hours to put together due to navigating poorly translated foreign websites (that includes some of the English ones)but I do remember that a good few of the smaller clubs don't categorize matches as they operate flat fees

Baldy Foghorn

28-06-2012, 08:50 PM

IWasThere2016

28-06-2012, 08:59 PM

When I asked SL about STF investment, he mentioned that STF wanted us to be self sufficient, and that STF would only intervene when things were really bad.......Not sure what constitutes really bad, after 10th and 11th placings and the mother of all humiliations in May....

STF will be shoring Hibs up for a long time if Der Hun get into SFL1 next season...

silverhibee

29-06-2012, 11:17 AM

There is indeed SH......Marks & Spencer have giant easter egg style walnut whips instore. Will I get you one to celebrate Jimmy's loan :-)

They are immense......the size of a bloody Dalek !

Lets get two to celebrate Jimmy's loan, and more good news is that Hibs are playing there pre-season in the land of the chocolate makers. :greengrin

I will be paying M&S a visit soon TH. :aok: :greengrin

The Green Goblin

29-06-2012, 02:28 PM

Why is it that teams like Motherwell, Dundee United, St Johnstone, ICT etc are able to out performing us on a consistent basis when they have far fewer ST holders than us and lower attendences therefore have less disposible income to be used on the on field product?!

Indeed - this is the big question, the one that nobody seems to be able or willing to answer. Why exactly is this the case?

And Matty, I read your post in response to mine (couldn't find it just now to quote) and I thought about it for a bit but I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. The tone of it was kind of angry, I think, but you must realise I take no pleasure whatsoever in expressing my discontent towards the club. Quite the opposite really. It feels not very nice at all, but that is just how I feel about it so I am not going to lie and pretend everything's great. Your goodwill towards Hibs, or passion or love, whatever you want to call it, has outlasted mine, and I respect you for that, but I don't and can't feel the same way.

What happened last season and on May 19th just destroyed what little faith I had left. It wasn't the loss - that would have been okay if we had made a game of it - it was the way in which what happened on the pitch and later that night summed up the sorry state of the club right now. It has been that way for a long time now. And (twice in the last week now, for different reasons) the club's answer has been yet again to tell the fans they have to do more. For me, that's an insult to the thousands of fans who do everything they can even when they can't afford to, in return for calamity after calamity. I, and many others it seems, have just reached a point where enough is enough.

Again, I really respect your continuing passion for the club, but mine has died somewhat. That's not a "choice" to feel or think that; that's just how it is for me. I hope you can understand and accept that.

GG

Lucius Apuleius

29-06-2012, 03:42 PM

The last table was a well put together survey by the BBC asking every club in the UK, the red prices on the left shows cat a matches. The first table took around 5 hours to put together due to navigating poorly translated foreign websites (that includes some of the English ones)but I do remember that a good few of the smaller clubs don't categorize matches as they operate flat fees

I kinda read the prices as being Cat A and Cat B. That is Hibs are quoted as being £22/£28?

G-Reg

29-06-2012, 06:05 PM

I kinda read the prices as being Cat A and Cat B. That is Hibs are quoted as being £22/£28?

The end column (Total cheapest) puts us as the most expensive, this is for a Cat b Ticket and all the add on purchases.

If it was to be done on the most expnsive the table would look like this (Cat A)

Club T
otal cheapest
Position Held on BBC Survey

(With Cat A ticket)
(Based on Cat B)

1 St Johnston
£27.10
8

2 Dunfermline
£29.40
4

3 Motherwell
£31.50
7

4 St Mirren
£31.55
9

5 Dundee United
£31.60
2

6 Kilmarnock
£32.80
3

3 7 Aberdeen
£34.40
6

8 Hibs .
£35.20
12

9 Inverness
£35.90
1

10 Hearts
£37.80
5

11 Celtic
£46.50
10

12 Rangers
£49.00
11

As i pointed out in my post Hibs need a better understanding of how to maximize profit while having as many possible people in the stadium. Celtic and Rangers both do this well they have found their magic numbers they are consistently near the bottom of both of these table relating to Maximum prices while almost selling out each week. This is due to the fact they dominate the league and fans are drawn by the opportunity of watching winning football. Hibs don't have the product on the park but as I say are missing an increased revenue stream by failing to tap into the fan base who don't come along purely on the basis of being priced out.

BT58

29-06-2012, 06:21 PM

so how much would us as walk up fans want to be charged??????
me ,,,,i think £15-£20 would be adequate....no doubt yous happy clappers would want us paying nealy £30:confused::confused:
entertainment comes at a price.....have we been entertained in the last 2 years??????:cb:cb:cb:cb:cb:cb:cb
bt

G-Reg

29-06-2012, 06:34 PM

A price tweaking process should have been started in anticipation of the the day the new stand was opened. It's not as if the board didn't know the new stand was coming pricing could have settled down by now and I'm in no doubt we would have more people attending. As for people who think the price should be high so that they can put more in as individuals It's easy to put extra money into the club through donations or merchandise. 1 person paying 405 with another paying nothing isn't as good as 2 people paying 300 each (also the guy who wants to pay 405 can feel free to pop the other 105 in a card and send it to RP or PF)

jabis

29-06-2012, 11:33 PM

Its boltonhibs eating a kebab, :confused: And yes i get what you are saying, we need to be a little more patient again. :rolleyes:

fair call,but use your own pic.

Well as others have said, folk are leaving in droves, their patience has run out. Maybe time for the leaders to lead for a change, and put up the funds for this seasons challenge, rather than waiting to see what comes in.

no they are not...a total myth,it's this (whoo hoooo)guff from a TINY minority that people take as the gospel.
I for one will go to SOME away games for the first time in yonks,just to get it right up the doubters.

I hope other fans,of other teams feel the same.

jabis

29-06-2012, 11:54 PM

maybe it's just me,but I enjoy going along to see Hibs.And with all the shte going on, I will still continue doing so.

keep the faith

GGTTH

Steve-O

29-06-2012, 11:56 PM

Peevemor

30-06-2012, 06:37 AM

Cat A & B games is just another con to rip people off, and based on attendances at these games in recent times, and the fact such games are almost always on TV, this blatant scam should be scrapped. All games the same price IMO.

Even if the attendances at these games are dropping, the proportion if away fans is higher than other matches therefore the policing is a lot more expensive.

This isn't Hibs' choice.

Lucius Apuleius

30-06-2012, 07:51 AM

The end column (Total cheapest) puts us as the most expensive, this is for a Cat b Ticket and all the add on purchases.

If it was to be done on the most expnsive the table would look like this (Cat A)

Club T
otal cheapest
Position Held on BBC Survey

(With Cat A ticket)
(Based on Cat B)

1 St Johnston
£27.10
8

2 Dunfermline
£29.40
4

3 Motherwell
£31.50
7

4 St Mirren
£31.55
9

5 Dundee United
£31.60
2

6 Kilmarnock
£32.80
3

3 7 Aberdeen
£34.40
6

8 Hibs .
£35.20
12

9 Inverness
£35.90
1

10 Hearts
£37.80
5

11 Celtic
£46.50
10

12 Rangers
£49.00
11

As i pointed out in my post Hibs need a better understanding of how to maximize profit while having as many possible people in the stadium. Celtic and Rangers both do this well they have found their magic numbers they are consistently near the bottom of both of these table relating to Maximum prices while almost selling out each week. This is due to the fact they dominate the league and fans are drawn by the opportunity of watching winning football. Hibs don't have the product on the park but as I say are missing an increased revenue stream by failing to tap into the fan base who don't come along purely on the basis of being priced out.

Thought so. Doesn't look as bad then does it?

joe breezy

30-06-2012, 08:05 AM

blackpoolhibs

30-06-2012, 08:21 AM

no they are not...a total myth,it's this (whoo hoooo)guff from a TINY minority that people take as the gospel.
I for one will go to SOME away games for the first time in yonks,just to get it right up the doubters.

I hope other fans,of other teams feel the same.

2000 non renewals, yip you are right. Nothing to worry about, its a TINY minority.

Lucius Apuleius

30-06-2012, 08:53 AM

I think that there's still a pretty good chance Rangers will not be in Division 1 next season, I also think it could be even worse for them - I think Hibs have mostly done the right thing but unfortunately Petrie in his other role has had to meet Green

The threatening document sent to clubs by the SPL is a shocker

Doncaster and anyone else responsible must resign

I still want to support Hibs but only if what's right happens

Gretna and Livingston seemed to get punished quite swiftly

Now we know that only Sevco Scotland are applying for the league it is 100% a new club so has to sit with any other new club applications in the normal way

3 years accounts etc

It's infuriating, totally understand anyone not renewing now

Thought Hibs had a great youth set up anyway?

It doesn't seem to be as good as it used be...

Reference Petrie, that is what I also believe. His role at the SFA would mean he would have to meet Green. A lot of what has come from that appears to me to be a manipulation. Petrie is many things and different things to different people but the man is not an idiot. He knows what the repercussions for Hibs would be and I do not for one minute believe he is the architect behind that extremely amateur document.
Your point about the youngsters coming through though appears to be contradictory to what is being said elsewhere that about six of them are ready to play in the first team. I dont know as I have not seen them but I hope so.

G-Reg

30-06-2012, 09:13 AM

Thought so. Doesn't look as bad then does it?

I'm sure if you are grasping what I am saying with over 50% of the stadium sitting empty throughout the whole season we could operate and pricing policy that puts us as the cheapest team to watch regardless of Cat A or Cat B while still making more money than every other team outside the OF. It's basic economics no?

matty_f

30-06-2012, 09:45 AM

Indeed - this is the big question, the one that nobody seems to be able or willing to answer. Why exactly is this the case?

And Matty, I read your post in response to mine (couldn't find it just now to quote) and I thought about it for a bit but I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. The tone of it was kind of angry, I think, but you must realise I take no pleasure whatsoever in expressing my discontent towards the club. Quite the opposite really. It feels not very nice at all, but that is just how I feel about it so I am not going to lie and pretend everything's great. Your goodwill towards Hibs, or passion or love, whatever you want to call it, has outlasted mine, and I respect you for that, but I don't and can't feel the same way.

What happened last season and on May 19th just destroyed what little faith I had left. It wasn't the loss - that would have been okay if we had made a game of it - it was the way in which what happened on the pitch and later that night summed up the sorry state of the club right now. It has been that way for a long time now. And (twice in the last week now, for different reasons) the club's answer has been yet again to tell the fans they have to do more. For me, that's an insult to the thousands of fans who do everything they can even when they can't afford to, in return for calamity after calamity. I, and many others it seems, have just reached a point where enough is enough.

Again, I really respect your continuing passion for the club, but mine has died somewhat. That's not a "choice" to feel or think that; that's just how it is for me. I hope you can understand and accept that.

GG

Thanks for the response, apologies if there was an angry tone in the reply, I think I'm just getting exasperated at the nick that the club has gotten into, and the divide between the club and the support that is apparently preventing us from getting out of the situation. There's a lot of work to be done, I think, and I also think it's going to take a bit more give and take on both sides to get things sorted.

My biggest worry is that the resentment that people are feeling about buying season tickets makes Pat's job so difficult that he isn't able to realistically get us out of this hole.

Again, sorry if it came across as me being shirty, I probably was feeling that way at the time :na na: but I know everyone has strong feelings on this subject and I respect yours.

marinello59

30-06-2012, 09:45 AM

Brizo

30-06-2012, 09:46 AM

Cat A & B games is just another con to rip people off, and based on attendances at these games in recent times, and the fact such games are almost always on TV, this blatant scam should be scrapped. All games the same price IMO.

:agree:

While more polis / stewards are needed for the OF and Hertz visits less are needed for visits by the likes of ICT and St Johnstone. Costs should average out over the course of a season. IIRC back in the days when some games were like war zones you paid the same to get into watch us vs Hertz as you did to watch us vs Dunfermline. There was a far greater argument for a two tier polis related pricing system back then than there is now.

Your right the Cat A is a total scam. Clubs want their cake and eat it. Take the TV money and ask fans to turn up to watch these televised games at say sunday lunchtimes and charge £6 extra to do it. Televised games should imo have some of the most competitive pricing to get punters through the turnstyles. Instead we have stadiums half empty for showpiece games.

Eyrie

30-06-2012, 10:20 AM

When the SPL votes to restructure the split of the TV money, I'd like to see a pot being created to compensate the home club for each televised game. Say 40 games at £40k which is £1.6m, or 10% of the annual amount receivable under the 5 year, £80m Sky/ESPN deal. That can be funded by reducing the prize money for first from 17% to 10%, for second from 15% to 9.5% and third from 9.5% to 9% so that the differential for each place is 0.5% (ie £80k).

There's a total saving there of 13%, which would allow the other 3% (£480k) to be used to help Divisions One, Two and Three.

G-Reg

30-06-2012, 10:20 AM

It's a simplistic approach to a business that does not always behave according to the basic laws of economics. (Which aren't really laws are they?) Dropping prices will do rather less to entice fans back than a decent team to watch would, I would guess much less. The main reasons given by many on here for not going back are not centred on cost are they?

Good point and as i said this is really a job for someone at ER. what is clear is Hibs simply wont invest in the team with a large roll of notes so they are asking the fans to kick start something. All the noises at the moment appear to be saying the fans haven't exactly been standing in a long line beating down the door to get their hands on one of the most expensive season tickets going in relation to the product on the pitch. Customers in football (fans) come with something most other retail organisations would kill for....an element of blind loyalty. Simple question is the current system working?

As for pricing if someone who knows how to put a Poll together on here they could ask "If you DO NOT currently have a season ticket what is the MAXIMUM price could you afford if you are currently priced out 200? 250? 300?"

Lucius Apuleius

30-06-2012, 10:48 AM

G-Reg

30-06-2012, 11:59 AM

I'm sure if you are grasping what I am saying with over 50% of the stadium sitting empty throughout the whole season we could operate and pricing policy that puts us as the cheapest team to watch regardless of Cat A or Cat B while still making more money than every other team outside the OF. It's basic economics no?

Absolutely no idea. I have no grasp or training in economics at all. What I see is people deciding Hibs is the most expensive football team in Scotland to watch when, in my opinion, they are cherry picking the things they want to count towards that cost. Personally I do not agree with Cat A and B games and I do think all games should be the same price. I also think it should be one price for the whole league. To have a disparity of £26 (cheapest £16, most expensive £42) is ludicrous. What price should that be? Not a clue. That is where you economists come into the equation and tell us. Filling a stadium at a fiver a pop is not the answer though.

Could not agree more mate although that's a cherry you picked out of thin air as i never said a fiver would be a good starting point because that's just nonsense. As i said on more than one occasion I DONT KNOW THIS FIGURE BUT HIBS SHOULD EMPLOY OR ALREADY HAVE SOMEONE IN PLACE TO DO THIS (please note I'm not shouting just simply making sure you pick up on this on this comment this time round) You may state you don't understand the basics of economics so I'll try help you out.

20,421 at £5 = £102,105 (You made up amount)
20,421 at £10 = £204,210 (Probably too cheap IMO)
20,421 at £15 = £306,315 (Maybe a good average price per match for season ticket holders)
20,421 at £20 = £408,420 (A fair price for PATG IMO)
20,421 at £22= £449,262 (The stadium has never been filled at this price)
20,421 at £28 = £571,788 (As above)

Hope this helps

I'll try ask you again......Is the current pricing structure pulling maximum revenue from from the possible fan base? the fact they are begging for more would indicate not.

All the figures I used in my previous tables and stats are publicly available facts and I did ask for help filling in the blanks (feel free to help? or present counter evidence showing that I am deliberately omitting facts or not and just carry on dismissing facts....together we can make things better)

JustSimplyHibs

30-06-2012, 01:07 PM

I'm sure if you are grasping what I am saying with over 50% of the stadium sitting empty throughout the whole season we could operate and pricing policy that puts us as the cheapest team to watch regardless of Cat A or Cat B while still making more money than every other team outside the OF. It's basic economics no?

Absolutely no idea. I have no grasp or training in economics at all. What I see is people deciding Hibs is the most expensive football team in Scotland to watch when, in my opinion, they are cherry picking the things they want to count towards that cost. Personally I do not agree with Cat A and B games and I do think all games should be the same price. I also think it should be one price for the whole league. To have a disparity of £26 (cheapest £16, most expensive £42) is ludicrous. What price should that be? Not a clue. That is where you economists come into the equation and tell us. Filling a stadium at a fiver a pop is not the answer though.

Correct, however having a full stadium should help achieve more victories, it does for Celtic and Hearts and did for Rangers.

I personally think £15 per adult and £10 per child/oap, scrap student and other silly wee deals that they have. Tell the Sky and the Beeb to do one, returning to 3pm kick offs on a Saturday at those prices will at least make the stadium 3/4 full should bring in, based on PATG fans (i aint got a calc) roughly £225,000.00.

The whole Scottish game needs to start a fresh and build for the next 2 years, doing so by having wage caps, two 18 team leagues, universal pricing and seriously look into how our clubs do well against top foriegn teams at youth level, then players reach 20 year old and then it goes all t**s up for club and country.

G-Reg

30-06-2012, 01:18 PM

[QUOTE=Lucius Apuleius;3280436]
[/B]
Correct, however having a full stadium should help achieve more victories, it does for Celtic and Hearts and did for Rangers.

I personally think £15 per adult and £10 per child/oap, scrap student and other silly wee deals that they have. Tell the Sky and the Beeb to do one, returning to 3pm kick offs on a Saturday at those prices will at least make the stadium 3/4 full should bring in, based on PATG fans (i aint got a calc) roughly £225,000.00.

The whole Scottish game needs to start a fresh and build for the next 2 years, doing so by having wage caps, two 18 team leagues, universal pricing and seriously look into how our clubs do well against top foriegn teams at youth level, then players reach 20 year old and then it goes all t**s up for club and country.

It looks like my quote has merged with
Lucius Apuleius quote on the above post.

I could not agree more with you here well said, the bi-product of more hibs fans in the stadium is a lift in atmosphere and a better home advantage not to mention extra add on sales

The Green Goblin

30-06-2012, 01:26 PM

Thanks for the response, apologies if there was an angry tone in the reply, I think I'm just getting exasperated at the nick that the club has gotten into, and the divide between the club and the support that is apparently preventing us from getting out of the situation. There's a lot of work to be done, I think, and I also think it's going to take a bit more give and take on both sides to get things sorted.

My biggest worry is that the resentment that people are feeling about buying season tickets makes Pat's job so difficult that he isn't able to realistically get us out of this hole.

Again, sorry if it came across as me being shirty, I probably was feeling that way at the time :na na: but I know everyone has strong feelings on this subject and I respect yours.

Cheers for that Matty, and no worries. There's a lot at stake so the tension is totally understandable. I just didn't want you to think I was stating the point of view I was because I was getting my jollies out of doing it or anything. I share the frustration completely. Let's hope we are both a lot happier about things soon enough. :wink:

matty_f

30-06-2012, 01:28 PM

Cheers for that Matty, and no worries. There's a lot at stake so the tension is totally understandable. I just didn't want you to think I was stating the point of view I was because I was getting my jollies out of doing it or anything. I share the frustration completely. Let's hope we are both a lot happier about things soon enough. :wink:

Hopefully today's announcement of McPake's signing will send a few switherers towards the ticket office!

Onwards and upwards! :thumbsup:

Lucius Apuleius

30-06-2012, 04:05 PM

[QUOTE=Lucius Apuleius;3280436]

Could not agree more mate although that's a cherry you picked out of thin air as i never said a fiver would be a good starting point because that's just nonsense. As i said on more than one occasion I DONT KNOW THIS FIGURE BUT HIBS SHOULD EMPLOY OR ALREADY HAVE SOMEONE IN PLACE TO DO THIS (please note I'm not shouting just simply making sure you pick up on this on this comment this time round) You may state you don't understand the basics of economics so I'll try help you out.

20,421 at £5 = £102,105 (You made up amount)
20,421 at £10 = £204,210 (Probably too cheap IMO)
20,421 at £15 = £306,315 (Maybe a good average price per match for season ticket holders)
20,421 at £20 = £408,420 (A fair price for PATG IMO)
20,421 at £22= £449,262 (The stadium has never been filled at this price)
20,421 at £28 = £571,788 (As above)

Hope this helps

I'll try ask you again......Is the current pricing structure pulling maximum revenue from from the possible fan base? the fact they are begging for more would indicate not.

All the figures I used in my previous tables and stats are publicly available facts and I did ask for help filling in the blanks (feel free to help? or present counter evidence showing that I am deliberately omitting facts or not and just carry on dismissing facts....together we can make things better)

Never picked a cherry out of thin air, although I did pick a price out of thin air to demonstrate a point. Nowhere did I say that is what you said. Not an economist but I can write a wee bit:wink: Think your logic is flawed as well. Is there not different prices for different parts of the ground? Unless of course you rae averaging prices? You sound a fair bit condescending to be honest regarding your shouting comments. I have typed this slowly so as you can understand it.:wink: I alos have managed quite well in life without understanding or being interested in basic economics so thans for the assistance, however totally wasted on me I am afraid, not interested in learning. I would appreciate knowing where I have dismissed your facts or accused you of deliberately omitting facts (sounds like a case for Rebus).
I have already said I think the price should be the same at every ground for every game. Agian, as I said, I am neither accountant nor economist. I have not a clue where that sweet spot should be so totally unaware if we are pulling maximum revenue. It would appear not but not my forte.

Iggy Pope

30-06-2012, 04:15 PM

Iggy Pope

30-06-2012, 04:18 PM

[QUOTE=G-Reg;3280520]

Never picked a cherry out of thin air, although I did pick a price out of thin air to demonstrate a point. Nowhere did I say that is what you said. Not an economist but I can write a wee bit:wink: Think your logic is flawed as well. Is there not different prices for different parts of the ground? Unless of course you rae averaging prices? You sound a fair bit condescending to be honest regarding your shouting comments. I have typed this slowly so as you can understand it.:wink: I alos have managed quite well in life without understanding or being interested in basic economics so thans for the assistance, however totally wasted on me I am afraid, not interested in learning. I would appreciate knowing where I have dismissed your facts or accused you of deliberately omitting facts (sounds like a case for Rebus).
I have already said I think the price should be the same at every ground for every game. Agian, as I said, I am neither accountant nor economist. I have not a clue where that sweet spot should be so totally unaware if we are pulling maximum revenue. It would appear not but not my forte.

A spellchecker is a must in that case......

Lucius Apuleius

30-06-2012, 04:21 PM

[QUOTE=Lucius Apuleius;3280970]

A spellchecker is a must in that case......

Not really, one employs someone for such mundane tasks. :greengrin

G-Reg

01-07-2012, 06:23 PM

Never picked a cherry out of thin air, although I did pick a price out of thin air to demonstrate a point. Nowhere did I say that is what you said. Not an economist but I can write a wee bit:wink: Think your logic is flawed as well. Is there not different prices for different parts of the ground? Unless of course you rae averaging prices? You sound a fair bit condescending to be honest regarding your shouting comments. I have typed this slowly so as you can understand it.:wink: I alos have managed quite well in life without understanding or being interested in basic economics so thans for the assistance, however totally wasted on me I am afraid, not interested in learning. I would appreciate knowing where I have dismissed your facts or accused you of deliberately omitting facts (sounds like a case for Rebus).
I have already said I think the price should be the same at every ground for every game. Agian, as I said, I am neither accountant nor economist. I have not a clue where that sweet spot should be so totally unaware if we are pulling maximum revenue. It would appear not but not my forte.

Here

Absolutely no idea. I have no grasp or training in economics at all. What I see is people deciding Hibs is the most expensive football team in Scotland to watch when, in my opinion, they are cherry picking the things they want to count towards that cost. Personally I do not agree with Cat A and B games and I do think all games should be the same price. I also think it should be one price for the whole league. To have a disparity of £26 (cheapest £16, most expensive £42) is ludicrous. What price should that be? Not a clue. That is where you economists come into the equation and tell us. Filling a stadium at a fiver a pop is not the answer though.

I sorry if I have come across as condescending that was not my intention and please accept my apology. I'm just putting facts out here and asking if anyone with a better understanding of business than me (which will be the majority of the thousands of folk who read these forums) can shed some light on how we can help the club help itself because IMHO the board are approaching this from the wrong angle. The current system is not working.

You also say - Think your logic is flawed as well. Is there not different prices for different parts of the ground? Unless of course you rae averaging prices?

On post #272 I said -
When running a football club as a business you must aim to maximise your average sale per customer (in retail this is often referred to as average basket). The way to work this out is to add up ALL the revenue from ticket sales last season ST/PATG/Corporate and concession and divide it between the number of seats available that season (if anyone can help me get these figures I’ll work it out).

Lucius Apuleius

02-07-2012, 07:58 AM

Here

I sorry if I have come across as condescending that was not my intention and please accept my apology. I'm just putting facts out here and asking if anyone with a better understanding of business than me (which will be the majority of the thousands of folk who read these forums) can shed some light on how we can help the club help itself because IMHO the board are approaching this from the wrong angle. The current system is not working.

You also say - Think your logic is flawed as well. Is there not different prices for different parts of the ground? Unless of course you rae averaging prices?

On post #272 I said -
When running a football club as a business you must aim to maximise your average sale per customer (in retail this is often referred to as average basket). The way to work this out is to add up ALL the revenue from ticket sales last season ST/PATG/Corporate and concession and divide it between the number of seats available that season (if anyone can help me get these figures I’ll work it out).

Cool. Not getting into a protracted discussion as I think it detracts from the point of the thread. There is nowhere I can see in the above statement where*I*questioned you or the facts. I merely asked a question regarding cat a games as I felt the table presented misrepresented the true situation. The problem with hibs.net is that if something is said often enough it becomes gospel. Entrance to a Hibs game is quite obviously not the most expensive in Scotland as that table tries to say. I don't think you were the person who compiled this list, if you were I apologize. The table in my opinion cherry picks some items and puts them across in the worst light for Hibs. Personally I always try and find the positive aspects of Hibs to broadcast to the world. How much I think is a reasonable price per match is pretty immaterial and not really representative. The probability is I will get a season ticket this week. I will manage, I would imagine, six games if I am lucky.
Anyway, as I said, enough already.