Let's Work Together

[RIP]

An update on this project has just been posted on the main Hibs Website and may be picked up by the media later this afternoon. A Q&A session was held at the start of that meeting and I will add my notes to this thread

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20120621/lets-work-together_2262950_2817695

Things are just at the volunteer recruitment and planning stage at the moment so the group would like to ask for patience during this period. There won't be any grand statements or promises made. The focus will be on producing tangible improvements that supporters notice. Results rather than rhetoric.

Happy to answer any questions
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUPPORTERS COME FORWARD TO HELP THE HIBEES

At a meeting held at Easter Road on Wednesday 13th of June, Hibernian supporters, board members and management agreed to work in partnership to benefit the long term future of the Club.

Working groups are being set up over the summer to support management in creating a shared Club unity and vision, generating additional income to benefit Pat Fenlon’s player budget, improving supporter communications and gathering fans views on the big issues facing Scottish Football. Hibernian FC will assign senior staff to work with each of the groups. The supporters have been tasked with recruiting further volunteers over the forthcoming weeks.

One of those attendingsaid “It’s not about individuals. Our aim was to attract fans with energy, time and talent from all corners of the Hibs support. The group at last week’s meeting was drawn from the Hibernian Supporters Association, Sect43, Hibs12thMan, Hibernians for Change, Hibs.Net, HibeesBounce, The Hibernians, the Disabled Supporters group, and others with no attachment other than being a supporter of Hibernian FC.

“Most of us are critical of the way the Club has gone backwards in recent seasons but as lifelong Hibbies we think it’s time to roll up our sleeves and work together to get this Club back where it belongs.”

David Forsyth, spokesman for Hibernian FC, said: “The ‘Let’s Work Together’ projectgrew out of the largest consultation process ever undertaken by the Club during the winter of 2011. A club questionnaire was followed by three successful supporters’ forums which led to some great ideas for improving the Club’s fortunes. A growing number of supporters have come forward since January to offer their time – on a voluntary basis – to help management turn these ideas into action.

The Club also welcomes a plan, announced last week by the Hibernian Supporters Association, to hold a series of consultation forums to engage their members in the process of working together.”

[JustSimplyHibs]

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20120621/lets-work-together_2262950_2817695

I just hope this will be an on-going process which the club will fully utilise. Alot can be achieved!!! :aok: :pfgwa

[RIP]

Just back from family holiday yesterday, worked till 10.30 pm first night back and others were still in the building (note this wasn’t volunteered – came out in conversation about staffing levels)

New kit out

No player signings but t/f window hasn’t been open long. A lot of work in progress. Targets identified but hard to conclude deals due to player and manager holidays. People at Hibs are working even when they are on holiday

Pat is due back from holidays at the end of the week 14/15 June. Hibs will tell only us when contracts are concluded – not before. That’s why sometimes the media get hold of a story before it’s on our own website – nothing has been signed yet

However SL knows the club has to communicate more ...and better

Still an awful lot of pain felt at the club after the final. Slow to heal

We had a bloated squad last season. It’s a fresh slate for Pat to build from ground up. Pat only wants players with the right attitude

SL asked group for our thoughts on the Rangers situation – more in Part B – Supporter Q&A - 8. Board are getting letters from supporters. Club always read the messageboards, look at polls etc

[RIP]

Supporters comments in normal font. Scott or David Forsyth comments in italics

Q. Do you know it’s your last chance? We want to see club cleaned up. If no improvement this season supporters will completely lose patience
A. Understood

Hibs Supporters Association are organising consultation forums. Title of “The Way Forward”

What worries me is “How do the Board feel?” It’s the deepest low I’ve experienced since my first game in 1954. Some fans may never return

That day would have changed everything – how we view ourselves in relation to the other half of the city. We loved the whole process of getting to the final. We acutely feel that pain, the disappointment of the fans. Words can’t describe.

We have to come out of this. Start afresh under Pat. We want athletes at the club. When I was on holiday I was watching athletics and they were so fit, dedicated. We want that at Hibs

Q. Do Hibs carry out drug testing?
A. The SFA do random testing 3 or 4 times per season. We also carry out our own random tests

We are sick fed up of rhetoric. Nobody buys it anymore. That video after the final of RP, GOC and Ivan laughing. Who could laugh after that?

Not seen video. But message understood. We need to support Pat to stamp his authority. We have had too many managers and the squad got too big. We’ve shed a lot of players. It’s a chance to rebuild.

Things seem to have got worse since players moved to East Mains. We feel there’s a real sense of dislocation between Easter Road and East Mains. I heard from someone high up at Hibs that management don’t monitor what goes on there. It’s a great facility but there seems to be no discipline – on or off the park. Is pressure applied to manager to instil discipline?

Agree. Board have been disappointed at the return from the Training Centre. We rely on the manager to create a discipline culture. But I was there all through last season

Surely senior management need to be accountable?

We have to play our part in making sure there’s a disciplined culture

Parts B 2 to 8 to follow today

[Dalkeith]

Can I ask volunteer recruitment to do what exactly?

[RIP]

Can I ask volunteer recruitment to do what exactly?

There will be a number of groups e.g. Big Issues, Club Vision, Sales/Marketing, Matchday and Communications. We will be working in groups to gather ideas, prioritise and work with board/management to create action plans. The club is run on a tight budget so rather than put more load on already hard-worked managers we could run with actions ourselves. That way we should get more done in less time

So we will need energy, committment, time and either ideas/skills or both. Membership of the groups will rotate to keep things fresh. We want diversity and to reflect all areas of the support

PM to down-the-slope if interested

[RIP]

We still go back to the incident under John Collins where the players went to Rod when John was on holiday
The outcome of that meeting was that Rod told the players to go and take the matter up with the manager

Pat Fenlon is a real stickler for discipline. The previous manager encouraged ‘characters’ in the dressing room. Pat wants professional athletes. He works hard himself and expects others to do the same. He works harder than any other manager we’ve had while I’ve been at the club

We needed a short term fix in January and we supported the manager with who he wanted to bring in. He will be building more permanently from this summer.

We think Pat will shift out the dead wood

He needs your backing
We will back Pat with everything we’ve got

Scott – you say you were at East Mains. But our players can’t find each other from throw ins, free kicks or corners. They are not spending enough time training. A few of them are seen regularly in local bookies. They seem to work a short day.

You say it’s a clean slate – a fresh start. But it’s the same every season. How do we make improvements longer term? At the final we had some players that looked disinterested. Hearts showed real commitment

We need to instil a winning culture all through what we do

It should be part of the ethos at Hibs. Pat says that there is a real softness about the club. Not just the players. At the club

We understand. We need to support him in changing the culture. Pat is planning a lot of change at the club but we don’t want to say more at this stage other than it will be physical, behavioural

Aren’t the board leaving too much to Pat Fenlon/ Shouldn’t the culture be embedded at senior level?
No – that is what we believe Pat can deliver. At Hibs the manager sets the tone

[RIP]

I have been doing SPLFFIT at St Johnstone. Geoff and Steve Brown are football fans but tough businessmen. When they get a new manager in (Coyle, McInnes, Lomas) they sit them down and say here’s the way WE do things. The manager fits the club, not vice versa. The manager can’t change everything and it maintains continuity

We would see that as too much interference. Culture (e.g. professionalism, discipline) is what we look to the manager to bring to the dressing room. We support the manager with discipline matters out-with the dressing room.

You have a board member (Amanda Jones) who is an employment law expert? Can’t she help you clamp down?

It must be putting off parents of our youth teams that they might be influenced by a bad culture or slack discipline?

The club doesn’t feel constrained by player contracts when exercising discipline.

U19’s work a full day 9-4 and have duties on matchdays. Bill (Hendry - Head of Youth Development) and James (McDonaugh – Head of Academy Coaching) have embedded a great culture into the Academy.

We want that at the clubs at all levels. However some of the ‘characters’ who the previous manager recruited appeared to have different expectations

Does it go into the First Team?
Traditionally they have been managed separately by the manager.

We don’t really want our youth culture influenced by some of these characters

The squad we had since January was put together for SPL survival

We are struggling to attract players to Hibs e.g. Sheridan, Swanson
Note: Other supporters ventured that Sheridan was enticed by “Deal Sweeteners” from Geoff Brown; Swanson by more money and chance to play “darn sarf”

The worry must be if Hibs rely 100% on any manager to bring culture, and then they leave, we lose continuity. Do we then try and recruit a replacement in the same mould?
Agree continuity is critical. As a club we need to get better value out of the Training Centre. That’s our aim

What steps does the club take to ensure this?
We have had commitments from the manager and we believe in him

[RIP]

Tony Mowbray was a “rookie” and Williamson was the most experienced SPL manager. The best managers aren’t always the most experienced.

Club must set the tone, not the manager. Before CC we had one manager who was the victim of anarchy, the other was too soft, the next was wild
We perform due diligence before selecting a manager. Check their reputations. The last manager came with very high recommendations, was highly regarded in the game

The club ethos should spread to everything we do. Players should be role models for youth, for the community
We are working with Pat on players supporting the community foundation, which is doing great work. Players, club, supporters , community need to be more engaged

Our youth players are a great example. They have started coaching our disability football team. They also referee matches. This builds character as well as raising the club’s profile in the community

That sounds great but should the club not publicise this more? The team on the other side of the city are not shy to tell people about what they are doing
Accepted. We are not good at promoting our good deeds

My son is a member of the Academy. In the opinion of many it’s the best youth academy in Scotland. Some of the players we have got coming through are amazing.

Players need to respect the club. They are our representatives
It goes back to the point made earlier. I agree there’s been a dis-connect between the Training Centre and Easter Road. There’s been reluctance on the part of some players to get more involved in the club. Yet we have never needed it more to all be working together – to get a strong feeling of unity

I watched the Famous Five in action and also the Tornadoes. We, the supporters, are incredibly proud of our history. We are sitting here amongst the historic artefacts. These new players need steeped in our history from the minute they walk through the door.

Could Tom Wright not play a role in every player’s induction?

I am involved in signing every player and tell them all about our history, our tradition. New players tend to know very little about us and the SPL – only Rangers and Celtic

[RIP]

Parts 5 to 8 after 3pm today

[Sean1875]

Thanks for the information so far :aok:

[Pretty Boy]

Thanks for this so far Gogs. Some very interesting reading.

[c31]

Sums up why we are such an easy touch, message coming from the board is one of pretty week management of all the aspects of the club.

We need hardnosed *******s to run our club, the manager should not be the ruler of this club he should be a major part but not its controller, all the answers are what we have been feed for years and that comes across with performances.

It's all too nice from the board - where are the targets and how to achieve them, where is the pride, where is the punishment for employees who let the club down, it's like the minutes from a meeting at a local bowling/golf club.

Faire do’s to Pat Fenlon he was able to surmise we are a week club and unless the whole situation changes at the top level we are sunk I’m afraid, as the pussies we have in charge have been proven too well out of their depth.

[RIP]

We have Lawrie Reilly and Pat Stanton who could teach players about Hibs history

Supporters need to see every Hibs player playing for the jersey – showing passion

Did anyone see the recent Sky interview where Colin Calderwood was interviewed and he admitted he left the club in an awful state? That it was his fault?

If nothing else we always felt that Colin was an honest guy

Do we have a chief scout? I’ve heard we have a scouting co-ordinator David Woodison who is only 27 and came from looking after Kilmarnock U19’s. Surely a chief scout needs vast experience? How can a guy that young have the knowledge?

David is not a chief scout. The role of the scouting co-ordinator is an administrative and organisational role. Databases, IT, Communications, Building networks, sourcing tickets for games.

John Park didn’t have a football reputation. He was in IT before joining Hibs but was a builder of data, of networks. That’s what scouting management is about now – coordinating and information gathering from the guys who watch the players. The manager then has the final look.

It didn’t appear to us that previous managers had a scouting network. Managers before Fenlon seemed to rely mostly on players they already knew?

It seems to me that managers before Fenlon simply filled the squad with journeymen at the expense of youth

The scouting structure was put in place under previous management but Pat will be reviewing locations and the network this summer. He has brought his own scouts into the mix. He would have played more youth this year if we had not been under threat of relegation

[marinello59]

Sums up why we are such an easy touch, message coming from the board is one of pretty week management of all the aspects of the club.

We need hardnosed *******s to run our club, the manager should not be the ruler of this club he should be a major part but not its controller, all the answers are what we have been feed for years and that comes across with performances.

It's all too nice from the board - where are the targets and how to achieve them, where is the pride, where is the punishment for employees who let the club down, it's like the minutes from a meeting at a local bowling/golf club.

Faire do’s to Pat Fenlon he was able to surmise we are a week club and unless the whole situation changes at the top level we are sunk I’m afraid, as the pussies we have in charge have been proven too well out of their depth.

I disagree totally. Our manager should be Mr Hibs, setting out just what is acceptable from absolutely everybody on the footballing side. The board can get on with providing the finance. Weak boards constantly interfere with matters they know **** all about. Strong boards will trust that they have the right man in place and leave him to do the job. Eddie Turnbull, Alex Ferguson, Bill Shankly, Jock Stein...............all examples of how a manager comes to embody everything about their particular club, not the board.

[marinello59]

Cheers for posting this stuff up Gogs. There is plenty to take in, that's for sure.

[RIP]

How are season ticket sales doing?

2,000 people who had a season ticket last year haven’t renewed. We had some new season ticket holders prior to the cup final but this didn’t make up the difference

The club should communicate these figures. You should also tell us more about what initiatives you have to bring additional income into the club

We do what we can to encourage more season ticket sales. But we are not convinced what communicating lower numbers would achieve. Supporters should understand that ST’s give the manager his budget.

Pat needs to issue these appeals, it wouldn’t be effective for the directors to be issuing these messages to supporters – would seem threatening

We’ve had successful supporter initiatives in the past where supporters helped with raising money and producing ideas to generate income. Stand Up And Be Counted (SUABC) ten years ago and Hibees Reunited. When supporters unite behind the club it can be highly effective

The best way to sell Season Tickets is to put a winning team on the park

I know of 3 friends, all hospitality members paying £1,000 per year who have had enough. That’s £3,000 lost. They were happier when we were in the first division and winning regularly

What about trying more ticket deals?

2 or 3 game packages?

I’m not sure everyone would agree. We’ve still got the views of 5,000 season ticket holders to consider

We’ve cut a lot of costs out of the operation in recent years. Our staff head count is at it’s lowest since 2002 / 2003. So we definitely need your help. We have been shy of asking in the past. We need to be more open about where we are and the position we are in.

Do we have a transfer pot for Pat Fenlon?

No. There is no “pot”. The manager has a budget to work within, based on ticket income we will generate over the season. We can only spend what we have

[muzzhfc]

great read, interesting points.

I think the board are putting a lot on PF with regards to culture. They need to get a ballance between History, which should stem from the board, and current culture, which should come from the manager. The current culture should stem from the history, with the managers own interptitation of this.

[RIP]

We don’t have a big investor who can enhance our player budget

Brian Kennedy (Supporters laugh ironically)

Not sure Brian Kennedy would be a potential investor in Hibs. I’m note sure he was offering Rangers money – was he?

Maybe we should try Guinness? A big harp on the stand? :-)

Where did all the money go from player sales?

Roughly

£5 million on the Training Centre
£3 million debt clearance
£3+ million on the East Stand
£3 in transfer fees or player deals


Do we have the 4th biggest wage budget in the SPL?

It’s stated in our accounts. We have overspent on wages in recent years and have gone over the threshold recommended by the SPL for wages as a % of turnover

That seems to be a very big weight on Pat’s shoulders

Won’t Sir Tom Farmer help us with investment and put more money into the squad budget?

That’s a question for him. He believes the club should stand on its own feet and be self-sufficient. We are run along good business principles. He is our safety net and has come to our aid in the past

It sounds like we need to put our faith in what comes out of the youth academy

[JimBHibees]

5000 season ticket holders wow.

[RIP]

Has the Rangers situation disrupted our budget-setting?

It’s a problem. There’s the loss of income, the impact upon the Sky contract and the TV deal. There are normally 4 Old Firm games per season.

The TV deal worked against us and we voted to reject the last one.

Last season other than the Old Firm we were featured the most. This had a bigger negative impact upon our ticket income than any other club. Yet we were paid according to our league position. So we got the 2nd lowest amount of money in exchange for the worst financial impact. The Sky TV deal hit our finances hard

The other impact was kick-off times. 18 different dates or times over the season. How do our supporters make plans?

Have you been viewing polls of Hibs Supporters? Some will walk away if a NEWCO Rangers are allowed back into the SPL

We understand

I only want to see an SPL where teams have a fair chance of winning. It will be a sore wrench but I will walk away

I will only watch the youth games

I will go and watch my local junior team

We believe that Rod agrees?

The full extent of the fraud is still to come out

There was extra information published in the BBC programme that has to be considered.

On the vote, the Newco would need 7 votes out of 11

If clubs vote against – Rangers fans may threaten to boycott grounds

Without Rangers the SPL could open up, give other teams a chance

Even Champions League football for some? :-)

Rod was the only one on TV to talk about ‘Sporting Integrity’. Other clubs may say one thing and vote the opposite. How would you feel if Hibs voted against but Rangers were allowed back?

(Some mixed response. Some vehemently no)

Supporters have a disparity of views but most want clubs to vote no

The votes have to be made public

Rather than pander to the Old Firm this gives Scottish Football the chance of league reconstruction

[Northernhibee]

Where did all the money go from player sales?

Roughly

£5 million on the Training Centre



This HAS to be made to work. Otherwise it's a waste of £8m+ on a waste of space and a stadium we'll never fill.

[Beefster]

Roughly

£3 in transfer fees or player deals


Made me chuckle.

[Andy74]

5,000 season tickets, plenty of those will be kids and students. Deary dear. Good luck Pat.

[RIP]

I'd like to record a personal note of admiration to the volunteers (14) who gave up several hours of their time last Wednesday to attend. Indeed some came from further away - E Lothian (3), Fife, Perth, Livingston, Glasgow. You delivered some searching questions to Scott Lindsay and David Forsyth and I know that they really appreciated your contribution.

I'm also keen to pay tribute to Scott who came back from a family holiday the day before and put in a 15 hour shift followed by another 14 hour shift on the day of the meeting. Whatever else we may think of our board and management (and all of us who were there are board critics - not lapdogs) they are definitely grafters. It's not just a job for them. They may not all have been Hibbies when they came to the club but it's pretty obvious to me that Hibernian Football Club has now got deep under their skin

It's up to all of us to provide further critique, motivatation, ideas, time and energy into the mix. Here's to some hard work ahead

GGTTH

[c31]

I'd like to record a personal note of admiration to the volunteers (14) who gave up several hours of their time last Wednesday to attend. Indeed some came from further away - E Lothian (3), Fife, Perth, Livingston, Glasgow. You delivered some searching questions to Scott Lindsay and David Forsyth and I know that they really appreciated your contribution.

I'm also keen to pay tribute to Scott who came back from a family holiday the day before and put in a 15 hour shift followed by another 14 hour shift on the day of the meeting. Whatever else we may think of our board and management (and all of us who were there are board critics - not lapdogs) they are definitely grafters. It's not a job for them. They may not all have been Hibbies when they came to the club but it's pretty obvious to me that Hibernian Football Club has now got deep under their skin

It's up to all of us to provide further critique, motivatation, ideas, time and energy into the mix. Here's to some hard work ahead

GGTTH
Well done to the volunteers but the senior managment with all their tremendous hard work and dedication we end up 2nd bottom and no decent players, 5000 season ticket holders out of 7000 last year.

Maybe dedicated but I'm afraid they are on par with a player that runs about the field at 100mph but can’t trap, pass or shot.

How are we going to move forward with this lot at the helm?

[At The Edge]

Well done to the volunteers but the senior managment with all their tremendous hard work and dedication we end up 2nd bottom and no decent players, 5000 season ticket holders out of 7000 last year.

Maybe dedicated but I'm afraid they are on par with a player that runs about the field at 100mph but can’t trap, pass or shot.

How are we going to move forward with this lot at the helm?

With help from all the Hibs fans, we have some seriously good brains on this forum and outwith dot net/Bounce etc, folk with expert knowledge of media, sales, marketing, entertainment, a vision of what Hibs should be going forward, how to get the best of what we already have in place etc etc
Folk who are willing to give their knowledge to the folks at Hibs, each and every one of us is part of the way forward for Hibs, hopefully with all fans input we can pull ourselves out of the pit we're currently in.

[c31]

So why are the club paying salaries of £80,000+ to these people for if they need that sort of assistance, we could hire school leavers and save a few quid

[Hibs7]

Why don't we add £1 to every walk up ticket price which goes direct to PF to use as part of his players fund. It may encourage more ST sales but if not at less it will add to the funds.

[RIP]

Well done to the volunteers but the senior managment with all their tremendous hard work and dedication we end up 2nd bottom and no decent players, 5000 season ticket holders out of 7000 last year.

Maybe dedicated but I'm afraid they are on par with a player that runs about the field at 100mph but can’t trap, pass or shot.

How are we going to move forward with this lot at the helm?

By getting more supporters in the galley, repairing the holes in the hull, picking up the oars, working in the engine room and the bridge, charting a course together and making sure it's followed?

ST's are low for a host of reasons including poor product on the park; televised football kick-off times; the economy; sad state of the SPL; uncertainty about NEWCO. Sure management to be held accountable for picking crap managers but some of those other factors there are outwith their control - surely?

We've got a lot of coaches and a skeleton non-football staff. The board took a strong steer from Eddie Turnbull i.e. that the manager is the Gaffer - everyone else at Hibs is just working to support him. It's the manager who is hired to make sure the players can trap, pass and shoot

I'm no board apologist - but there's no easy answers

[Beefster]

Why don't we add £1 to every walk up ticket price which goes direct to PF to use as part of his players fund. It may encourage more ST sales but if not at less it will add to the funds.

Because the ticket price is already ridiculously high. Your suggestion wouldn't increase ST sales, it would drive away PATG supporters. Using your logic, we should just charge £800 for a ST.

[Tom Hart RIP]

Congratuations to the volunteers and in particular to Gogs 43 for the feedback. I've learned more reading this than 10 years of spin from the board.
For as long as I can remember, the Hibs board have been made up of a chairman and respected businessmen who were died in the wool Hibs supporters who worked for the good if the club. Douglas Crombe, Tom O'Malley, Kenny McLean etc.
For some reason we decided to start paying non Hibs fans £80k a year to do the same job, but in my opinion not nearly as well.
I hope that the lack of Fife Hyland comments mean that he is finally away, as (again) in my opinion, he was everything that was wrong at Easter Road. His continual lies to supporters about season tickets working out at £12 per game, the so called price freeze when fans were paying 17% more, the vast majority of fans were behind Colin Calderwood, and how the board were 'delighted' with last year's season ticket numbers when everyone who went to the games could see the drop.
I am no great fan of Scott Lindsay either, and believe that there are plenty of people who could and would do his job for the love of the club, and therefore save another £80k.
In any case, time will tell, but once again, well done to those who got involved.

[SneakersO'Toole]

Good effort Gogs. Give yourself a pat on the back.

As an aside, whoever on here said we had sold 11,200 season tickets needs to ditch their source.

5000 is pitiful though and illustrates just how far we have fallen.

[Beefster]

His continual lies to supporters about season tickets working out at £12 per game

I think you've completely misunderstood the point that was made about this. Hibs pointed out that the average price per game for all ST holders was around £12-14 (I can't recall the exact figure). When you take students, kids, OAPs, the disabled and carers into account then it's perfectly plausible and I doubt very much that it wasn't/isn't true.

[Kato]

Eddie Turnbull, Alex Ferguson, Bill Shankly, Jock Stein...............all examples of how a manager comes to embody everything about their particular club, not the board.


That's easy to say from a historical point of view. All the guys you mention above had hard nosed directors and Chairmen backing them and pushing their clubs along in the background to compete and succeed.

I'm not too convinced our board are "leaders of men", they sound like 'nice guys' and I'd rather have business, toughened, Mental Hibs men in charge who want us to succeed to the point of it being an obsession rather than it being a job.

"Leaving it up to Pat" isn't cutting it with me and I'm not really sorry for saying so.

5000 season tickets is back down to Pre-Mowbray numbers if I'm not mistaken which means yet again Celtic will have more season ticket holders living in Edinburgh than Hibs do. Not surprised don't blame anybody who's not renewed.

[GreenCastle]

Stand up and be counted

Together

Let's work together

While I appreciate Gogs the effort you put into this post and what is trying to be achieved - I would rather more action from the club to make things happen - I think it's a good idea they are aware of what supporters are thinking and how they are feeling but this is a crucial time for the board.

If Hibs have bad start this coming season - possibly even a bad result / performance against the yams in the 2nd game of the season and the pressure is really going to be on.

For Hibs and Scottish Football from now till Christmas cannot be under estimated.

Speaking with 2 ex players recently - one still playing in the SPL at another club - he said there is too much control from above and with the wage salary cap we can't bring players in who are consistent.

I would rather they changed the pay structure so 2 or 3 players would earn more than others as they deserve it

Player 1 - 3 - 3000 a week

Players 4 - 11 - 2000 - 700 quid a week for example

Rather than most on an average of 1500

The AGM this year could be interesting if Fenlon isn't performing or the club haven't backed him...let's hope we bring it together as we are due a decent season.

[Tom Hart RIP]

I think you've completely misunderstood the point that was made about this. Hibs pointed out that the average price per game for all ST holders was around £12-14 (I can't recall the exact figure). When you take students, kids, OAPs, the disabled and carers into account then it's perfectly plausible and I doubt very much that it wasn't/isn't true.

I understand entirely what he was trying to do Beefster. It's the 'lies. dammed lies and statistics' argument.

It's the same with the frozen price argument, which he could also claim is true, except that many fans have to pay an extra 17% which went to a private company and not Hibs.

He was on Hibs TV claiming that the board were delighted with last seasons ST figures when we could all see they were substantially down, but who can argue when he says that? Perhaps they were delighted.

I emailed the board (one of only 2 emails I have ever sent) to express my disgust at the board trying to shift the blame from Calderwood to Yogi, and Hyland replied stating that no member of the board had ever criticised Yogi. When I pointed out the 'unworkable legacy of the previous incumbent' comment, he never replied.

He continually boasted that he met Hibs fans behind the goals every week and the vast majority were totally behind Calderwood when I didn't know one who didn't think he was hopeless. I drink in the BTG and only ever saw him three times, and each time he stood speaking to the same guy for 10 mins before disappearing. Give Petrie his due, he stops at mist tables and speaks to everyone.

Last years survey summed him up for me. If ever there was a waste of money then that was it.

His job was to bring in money, but if we compare the income now to that before he arrived, I personally think he failed, and in my opinion, I was delighted when I heard he was leaving.

Still, onwards and upwards, and like I said, well done to thise who took part.

[Beefster]

I understand entirely what he was trying to do Beefster. It's the 'lies. dammed lies and statistics' argument.

It's the same with the frozen price argument, which he could also claim is true, except that many fans have to pay an extra 17% which went to a private company and not Hibs.

He was on Hibs TV claiming that the board were delighted with last seasons ST figures when we could all see they were substantially down, but who can argue when he says that? Perhaps they were delighted.

I emailed the board (one of only 2 emails I have ever sent) to express my disgust at the board trying to shift the blame from Calderwood to Yogi, and Hyland replied stating that no member of the board had ever criticised Yogi. When I pointed out the 'unworkable legacy of the previous incumbent' comment, he never replied.

He continually boasted that he met Hibs fans behind the goals every week and the vast majority were totally behind Calderwood when I didn't know one who didn't think he was hopeless. I drink in the BTG and only ever saw him three times, and each time he stood speaking to the same guy for 10 mins before disappearing. Give Petrie his due, he stops at mist tables and speaks to everyone.

Last years survey summed him up for me. If ever there was a waste of money then that was it.

His job was to bring in money, but if we compare the income now to that before he arrived, I personally think he failed, and in my opinion, I was delighted when I heard he was leaving.

Still, onwards and upwards, and like I said, well done to thise who took part.

Sorry, I presumed you were disputing the figs.

No disagreements from me on most of the 'spin' - the cup final tickets being the latest. Some of it is patently mince.

[millarco]

I may have missed this already, but how do you go about volunteering as part of this scheme? Be it time/ideas etc.

[RIP]

I may have missed this already, but how do you go about volunteering as part of this scheme? Be it time/ideas etc.

PM Down-the-slope. Looking for 5 teams (Big Issues, Club Vision, Matchday, Sakes & Marketing, Communications) of 8 initially to maximise ideas. At regular meetings this should guarantee at least 4 from each team

Early days but good numbers of volunteers so far for this first phase

[JohnStephens91]

PM coming your way in a minute Gogs, hopefully what I have planned will help in some way!

[RIP]

Good effort Gogs. Give yourself a pat on the back.

As an aside, whoever on here said we had sold 11,200 season tickets needs to ditch their source.

5000 is pitiful though and illustrates just how far we have fallen.

Thanks - that's uncannily true

Off to my Leith-Born Perth tattooist on Thursday to get the King added to Mssrs Hannan and Baker on my tattoo. So far Arthurs Seat, Crags, Calton Hill, St Anthony's Chapel, Tolbooth Clock, St Pat's Church all complete, Gordon Smith in July, Easter Road in August, Green wash in September, Mum and Dad in October

No pain - No gain :greengrin:

[millarco]

PM Down-the-slope. Looking for 5 teams (Big Issues, Club Vision, Matchday, Sakes & Marketing, Communications) of 8 initially to maximise ideas. At regular meetings this should guarantee at least 4 from each team

Early days but good numbers of volunteers so far for this first phase

Cheers, PM sent.

[Perspective]

Well done to everyone giving up their time to contribute positively to the club. Goodness knows we need the enthusiasm and collective expertise of the support now more than ever.

The one thing that irks me from the Q&A is the continuing lack of clarity on David Woodison's role at Hibs. It's misleading to say his role is strictly administrative, given the number of non-Hibs games he attends. The club are very touchy on this subject.

[Hibs7]

Because the ticket price is already ridiculously high. Your suggestion wouldn't increase ST sales, it would drive away PATG supporters. Using your logic, we should just charge £800 for a ST.

I beg to differ, it is less than the cost if half a pint, and if you are a walk up then even taking in all home games it is only an extra £18 per season. Not even the cost of a good night out. You are entitled to your opinion but maybe we should have a poll of all PATG supporters and get their view. As long as the money went to the playing side I would do it.

[Beefster]

I beg to differ, it is less than the cost if half a pint, and if you are a walk up then even taking in all home games it is only an extra £18 per season. Not even the cost of a good night out. You are entitled to your opinion but maybe we should have a poll of all PATG supporters and get their view. As long as the money went to the playing side I would do it.

You could use that argument as a justification for increasing the price of anything. There comes a cut-off point where the total price of something is self-defeating and the size of the latest increase is an irrelevance.

The game is on its knees, attendances are plummeting, the product is already vastly overpriced and piss-poor value for money, apathy is as high as it's been in a very long time, ST sales are down by around 25% or more but we can increase PATG prices (by whatever amount) and you believe that it will actually increase income/sales/anything?

There are far, far, far, far better ways to increase income or attract more customers.

[ian cruise]

I beg to differ, it is less than the cost if half a pint, and if you are a walk up then even taking in all home games it is only an extra £18 per season. Not even the cost of a good night out. You are entitled to your opinion but maybe we should have a poll of all PATG supporters and get their view. As long as the money went to the playing side I would do it.

i'm a patg supporter as i cant guarentee to make enough home games to make a season ticket viable, though every season i still consider buying one. I wouldnt mind with an increase of one or two pounds on the basis it went to transfer budget. I suppose the difficulty would be showing that the money was spent that way. It would really have to be kept aside and then added to the following seasons budget ( or august to dec spent in the mid season window)

I suppose rather than a poll on here have the question asked to every one game ticket bought (either patg or in advance by card) over the course of the season and see what the fans who it will affect say.

[Hibs7]

i'm a patg supporter as i cant guarentee to make enough home games to make a season ticket viable, though every season i still consider buying one. I wouldnt mind with an increase of one or two pounds on the basis it went to transfer budget. I suppose the difficulty would be showing that the money was spent that way. It would really have to be kept aside and then added to the following seasons budget ( or august to dec spent in the mid season window)

I suppose rather than a poll on here have the question asked to every one game ticket bought (either patg or in advance by card) over the course of the season and see what the fans who it will affect say.

You could make it optional I suppose,but every means of raising money from supporters who are willing to contribute ( no dig intended) :-) which goes towards the playing squad should at least be considered before being thrown out without discussion.

[down-the-slope]

Well done to everyone giving up their time to contribute positively to the club. Goodness knows we need the enthusiasm and collective expertise of the support now more than ever.

The one thing that irks me from the Q&A is the continuing lack of clarity on David Woodison's role at Hibs. It's misleading to say his role is strictly administrative, given the number of non-Hibs games he attends. The club are very touchy on this subject.

I don't think that is totaly what was being said, yes he does all that, but it was more about making clear he is part of the process / system but does not have a 'selecting players' role that some seemed to think.

If you remember PF was thanking Scott Thomson (goalie coach) in last few weeks of season for the number of games he had been to / players watched...the important thing is net / contacts are wide...but manager makes any final selection

[silverhibee]

Thanks - that's uncannily true

Off to my Leith-Born Perth tattooist on Thursday to get the King added to Mssrs Hannan and Baker on my tattoo. So far Arthurs Seat, Crags, Calton Hill, St Anthony's Chapel, Tolbooth Clock, St Pat's Church all complete, Gordon Smith in July, Easter Road in August, Green wash in September, Mum and Dad in October

No pain - No gain :greengrin:


What no tattoo of George Street.

It is in Hibs history now. :greengrin

[RIP]

What no tattoo of George Street.

It is in Hibs history now. :greengrin

I hope you are right there Silver :wink:

Since those of us attending the meeting have been given time to reflect on the information we were given, there were a minimum two big areas of dissatisfaction with the answers we got


The apparent absence of an embedded 'Hibs Way and Culture' that exists regardless of a change of manager defining "Who we are, what we do, the way we perform and conduct ourselves"
Our unacceptable discipline record over the last ten years - on and off the park


It was great to get the lowdown on other areas and the views of management, 2nd hand in the case of Pat Fenlon. But consigning the 'George Street' lifestyle to history is a commitment we need from the board - not just the manager

[Beefster]

Do we have a chief scout? I’ve heard we have a scouting co-ordinator David Woodison who is only 27 and came from looking after Kilmarnock U19’s. Surely a chief scout needs vast experience? How can a guy that young have the knowledge?

David is not a chief scout. The role of the scouting co-ordinator is an administrative and organisational role. Databases, IT, Communications, Building networks, sourcing tickets for games.

John Park didn’t have a football reputation. He was in IT before joining Hibs but was a builder of data, of networks. That’s what scouting management is about now – coordinating and information gathering from the guys who watch the players. The manager then has the final look.


I don't think that is totaly what was being said, yes he does all that, but it was more about making clear he is part of the process / system but does not have a 'selecting players' role that some seemed to think.

According to the above, that's exactly what they're saying. They talk about him coordinating the info from the guys who are actually watching the games. That implies that he's not involved in any scouting whatsoever.

Perspective's right. Their answers on scouting have been pretty evasive and ambiguous since Woodison's role was public knowledge.

[WHUHibs]

Well done to the volunteers but the senior managment with all their tremendous hard work and dedication we end up 2nd bottom and no decent players, 5000 season ticket holders out of 7000 last year.

Maybe dedicated but I'm afraid they are on par with a player that runs about the field at 100mph but can’t trap, pass or shot.

How are we going to move forward with this lot at the helm?

This is what I love,,a netter who sits back and criticises..well as the old tv programme once said,,

Why don't you switch off your television and do something less boring instead (substitute laptop for tv and you will get the meaning!)

We can all sit back and complain so it's about time for all of us who love the club get off our backsides and make some positive changes. As some will know I have been a major criticiser of the board for many years, particularly rod and STF but guess what I volunteered so ...let's crack on and help the club to be a better place,more competitive and as far as I know this is the first club to follow this new idea,,,innovation in today's climate is needed ...let's stop moaning and be proactive.

GGTH

[Bostonhibby]

Made me chuckle.

:agree::greengrin Was thinking that I could probably have got most of them for £2.50 - Rod overspending.

[Bostonhibby]

Great read Gogs, and thanks for posting, food for thought for us all. I am thinking that its about trying to put past nightmares behind us but I really do think that with all the good intentions now in the open, a similar season to the last couple can't be an option.

[c31]

You could make it optional I suppose,but every means of raising money from supporters who are willing to contribute ( no dig intended) :-) which goes towards the playing squad should at least be considered before being thrown out without discussion.

Just buy a few Happy Hibee draw tickets...and if you win you can donate the lot if you want.

[ackeygraham]

Excellent reading and thanks Gogs for taking the time and effort to get this posted and attend in the first instance.

I like the honesty of SL with his answers but time will tell this season, but in most we are ALL willing to make Hibs a better club on and off the park.....

where do i sign???

On other facts though, loved RP with his sporting intergrity as not a lot of clubs have that and will bottle out the vote.Should the newco be in the 1st Div will just compound the fact that the SPL is old firm bias and will have a effect on the rest of the clubs...

Anway lets watch this space

GGTTH

[RIP]

According to the above, that's exactly what they're saying. They talk about him coordinating the info from the guys who are actually watching the games. That implies that he's not involved in any scouting whatsoever.

Perspective's right. Their answers on scouting have been pretty evasive and ambiguous since Woodison's role was public knowledge.

It may be as simple as me failing to write it up as it was spoken. Scott certainly wasn't being evasive IIRC. There were up to 3 times as many words spoken at some points as I recorded. I tried to capture the main messages but DTS is correct - a no point did Scott say David doesn't look at any players himself

[RIP]

Five supporter working groups have been formed - Big Issues, Vision, Sales&Marketing, Communications and Matchday
A member of Hibs Board or Management will work with each team.
Names tbc but likely to be Big Issues/Rod; Vision/Scott&Pat; Sales&Marketing/Russell Smith; Communications/David Forsyth&Andrew Sleight and Matchday/Garry O'Hagan
30 volunteers have stepped forward so far - roughly 5 to 8 supporters per group
Very few of us represent specfic supporters groups but we have a reasonable spread of age and gender and from different corners of the Hibby world. We aim to be representative NOT representatives - if that makes sense
We could do with a couple more volunteers with ideas and input in the "Big Issues" and "Matchday" teams. Please PM down-the-slope
We set up a small working forum for the groups to brainstorm ideas and prep for the meetings
Directors Petrie, Langham and Lindsay will attend the next meeting on Tuesday as will Russell, David and John Nicol. It is expected that Pat Fenlon will attend at the start
We will report back to you via these boards


The meeting will aim to define how things are going to work and agree an intial list of priority areas to tackle.
Can't say much more at this stage - it's a work in progress

GGTTH

[frazeHFC]

Five supporter working groups have been formed - Big Issues, Vision, Sales&Marketing, Communications and Matchday
A member of Hibs Board or Management will work with each team.
Names tbc but likely to be Big Issues/Rod; Vision/Scott&Pat; Sales&Marketing/Russell Smith; Communications/David Forsyth&Andrew Sleight and Matchday/Garry O'Hagan
30 volunteers have stepped forward so far - roughly 5 to 8 supporters per group
Very few of us represent specfic supporters groups but we have a reasonable spread of age and gender and from different corners of the Hibby world. We aim to be representative NOT representatives - if that makes sense
We could do with a couple more volunteers with ideas and input in the "Big Issues" and "Matchday" teams. Please PM down-the-slope
We set up a small working forum for the groups to brainstorm ideas and prep for the meetings
Directors Petrie, Langham and Lindsay will attend the next meeting on Tuesday as will Russell, David and John Nicol. It is expected that Pat Fenlon will attend at the start
We will report back to you via these boards

The meeting will aim to define how things are going to work and agree an intial list of priority areas to tackle.
Can't say much more at this stage - it's a work in progress

GGTTH

Glory Glory



All sounds very good, brilliant of all those giving up time to get involved. Well done folks. :thumbsup: :flag:

[HibsMax]

Five supporter working groups have been formed - Big Issues, Vision, Sales&Marketing, Communications and Matchday
A member of Hibs Board or Management will work with each team.
Names tbc but likely to be Big Issues/Rod; Vision/Scott&Pat; Sales&Marketing/Russell Smith; Communications/David Forsyth&Andrew Sleight and Matchday/Garry O'Hagan
30 volunteers have stepped forward so far - roughly 5 to 8 supporters per group
Very few of us represent specfic supporters groups but we have a reasonable spread of age and gender and from different corners of the Hibby world. We aim to be representative NOT representatives - if that makes sense
We could do with a couple more volunteers with ideas and input in the "Big Issues" and "Matchday" teams. Please PM down-the-slope
We set up a small working forum for the groups to brainstorm ideas and prep for the meetings
Directors Petrie, Langham and Lindsay will attend the next meeting on Tuesday as will Russell, David and John Nicol. It is expected that Pat Fenlon will attend at the start
We will report back to you via these boards


The meeting will aim to define how things are going to work and agree an intial list of priority areas to tackle.
Can't say much more at this stage - it's a work in progress

GGTTH

Which of those groups, if any, would be responsible for dealing with issues related to Hbs TV and Overseas fans? In all my discussions with Andrew, not once have we been invited to participate in anything like this.

[At The Edge]

Which of those groups, if any, would be responsible for dealing with issues related to Hbs TV and Overseas fans? In all my discussions with Andrew, not once have we been invited to participate in anything like this.

I would say communications and possibly Sales and marketing?
PM 'down the slope' on this forum

[JohnStephens91]

Which of those groups, if any, would be responsible for dealing with issues related to Hbs TV and Overseas fans? In all my discussions with Andrew, not once have we been invited to participate in anything like this.

I would say communication, if you PM me I'll take your concern along to the meeting on Tuesday for you :aok:

[RIP]

This initiave will work alongside any pre-existing reviews - like the one that Andrew has been carrying out with overseas fans about Hibs TV.

Rather than reinvent the wheel, I think Hibs Max and others should continue to talk separately, rather than add to the agenda for Tuesday. We cam make note of it though

[down-the-slope]

Still looking for a couple of people who are interested in working as part of the groups and have time to input to the initiative.

Background / views not important (in fact we have worked to make these as wide as the support is diverse) as much as a willingness to do rather than just comment.

Particularly looking for additions to 'Match Day' and 'Big Issues' groups...

Drop me a PM :aok:

[DevonLoch]

Which of those groups, if any, would be responsible for dealing with issues related to Hbs TV and Overseas fans? In all my discussions with Andrew, not once have we been invited to participate in anything like this.


I'm with HibsMax - there is a huge number of UK and overseas fans who would love to be more involved with the club but are not able to be in Edinburgh often enough to take part directly in this process. How about a sixth working group (perhaps run on remote basis - Skpe conferencing?) to cater for us - or anything else anyone can suggest to keep us more in the loop. We also represent a much under exploited source of revenue for the club - how about a remote/virtual "season ticket" to cover club membership, Hibs TV, pdf match programmes, a club forum, competitions, etc?

Other than that, can I just say well done to everyone involved in this - a huge step in the right direction.

[Twiglet]

Still looking for a couple of people who are interested in working as part of the groups and have time to input to the initiative.

Background / views not important (in fact we have worked to make these as wide as the support is diverse) as much as a willingness to do rather than just comment.

Particularly looking for additions to 'Match Day' and 'Big Issues' groups...

Drop me a PM :aok:

What kind of thing would be covered in "big issues"? I might be interested but old like to know a wee bit more about it.

[HibsMax]

I would say communication, if you PM me I'll take your concern along to the meeting on Tuesday for you :aok:

PM sent. Thanks.

[HibsMax]

This initiave will work alongside any pre-existing reviews - like the one that Andrew has been carrying out with overseas fans about Hibs TV.

Rather than reinvent the wheel, I think Hibs Max and others should continue to talk separately, rather than add to the agenda for Tuesday. We cam make note of it though

I'm trying but (1) I'm not getting very good answers, and (2) no response to my last inquiry last week. Not sure what is going on.

[RIP]

What kind of thing would be covered in "big issues"? I might be interested but old like to know a wee bit more about it.

Newco
Kick off times
League restructure
Refereeing
TV Deals
Reserve league
Goalline technology
et al