Political Effects of Rangers Demise

[Phil D. Rolls]

We all know that Rangers is more than a football team. For many people, it is an institution that represents what (they think) Scotland is about. These people are already nervous about the break up of the Union, due to the majority of Scots thinking their destiny lies in an independent state.

It seems to me that a proportion of the population - not noted for its ability to see shades of grey, or to compromise, is being backed into a corner. I worry that the demise of Rangers could see them completely alienated from Scottish society, and (in their minds) left with no alternative but to come out fighting. I mean fighting with guns and bombs by the way.

It seems to me, that much as we loathe them for their arrogance and their cheating, we must think carefully about where we go with this situation. I'm thinking about Nelson Mandela's struggle to convince the ANC not to disband the Springboks - he argued that it was the only thing the Afrikaaners had left, and to take that away would leave them with nothing.

Even Franco had the sense to give the Catalans some way to vent their frustration at the Camp Nou. What the Huns stand for is about to be consigned to history - it's over for them. It's as much about managing the peace, as winning the war. I realise that people will say that sport is all that should matter, but unfortunately it's about more than sport in Scotland.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

We all know that Rangers is more than a football team. For many people, it is an institution that represents what (they think) Scotland is about. These people are already nervous about the break up of the Union, due to the majority of Scots thinking their destiny lies in an independent state.

It seems to me that a proportion of the population - not noted for its ability to see shades of grey, or to compromise, is being backed into a corner. I worry that the demise of Rangers could see them completely alienated from Scottish society, and (in their minds) left with no alternative but to come out fighting. I mean fighting with guns and bombs by the way.

It seems to me, that much as we loathe them for their arrogance and their cheating, we must think carefully about where we go with this situation. I'm thinking about Nelson Mandela's struggle to convince the ANC not to disband the Springboks - he argued that it was the only thing the Afrikaaners had left, and to take that away would leave them with nothing.

Even Franco had the sense to give the Catalans some way to vent their frustration at the Camp Nou. What the Huns stand for is about to be consigned to history - it's over for them. It's as much about managing the peace, as winning the war. I realise that people will say that sport is all that should matter, but unfortunately it's about more than sport in Scotland.

Bit heavy for this time of day ;)

Ok give them a giant Neil Lennon punchbag ;)

[Hibbyradge]

We all know that Rangers is more than a football team. For many people, it is an institution that represents what (they think) Scotland is about. These people are already nervous about the break up of the Union, due to the majority of Scots thinking their destiny lies in an independent state.

It seems to me that a proportion of the population - not noted for its ability to see shades of grey, or to compromise, is being backed into a corner. I worry that the demise of Rangers could see them completely alienated from Scottish society, and (in their minds) left with no alternative but to come out fighting. I mean fighting with guns and bombs by the way.

It seems to me, that much as we loathe them for their arrogance and their cheating, we must think carefully about where we go with this situation. I'm thinking about Nelson Mandela's struggle to convince the ANC not to disband the Springboks - he argued that it was the only thing the Afrikaaners had left, and to take that away would leave them with nothing.

Even Franco had the sense to give the Catalans some way to vent their frustration at the Camp Nou. What the Huns stand for is about to be consigned to history - it's over for them. It's as much about managing the peace, as winning the war. I realise that people will say that sport is all that should matter, but unfortunately it's about more than sport in Scotland.

The majority of Scots want to retain the union, according to the most recent polls.

Therefore, we can safely bin Newco.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The majority of Scots want to retain the union, according to the most recent polls.

Therefore, we can safely bin Newco.

That puts my mind at rest - bring in the bulldozers.:greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/51323

[joe breezy]

Alex Salmond was behind the scenes doing all he could to try and save them, just shows how dodgy independence could be.

We like to think we're like a Scandinavian country. We're not, sadly. it's a country full of bams with many still stuck in the 17th century.

Hopefully the death of Rangers might help shake some of that off but it's a slow battle as some of the posts on Rangers forums show.

[ehf]

Alex Salmond was behind the scenes doing all he could to try and save them, just shows how dodgy independence could be.

We like to think we're like a Scandinavian country. We're not, sadly. it's a country full of bams with many still stuck in the 17th century.

Hopefully the death of Rangers might help shake some of that off but it's a slow battle as some of the posts on Rangers forums show.

:agree: We should be able to trust our political leaders to do the right thing in any given situation: Salmond clearly doesn't even know what the right thing to do is most of the time.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Alex Salmond was behind the scenes doing all he could to try and save them, just shows how dodgy independence could be.

We like to think we're like a Scandinavian country. We're not, sadly. it's a country full of bams with many still stuck in the 17th century.

Hopefully the death of Rangers might help shake some of that off but it's a slow battle as some of the posts on Rangers forums show.


:agree: We should be able to trust our political leaders to do the right thing in any given situation: Salmond clearly doesn't even know what the right thing to do is most of the time.

I think there is how things should be, and how they are. If these attitudes have been around for 300 years, it maybe means that we can't change things in one fell swoop. I can't speak for Salmond, but there is a much bigger picture here that we have to acknowledge. As I pointed out, other leaders have faced similar situations, no-one would ever accuse Mandela of being pro-apartheid, but faced with bloodshed he had to use a gentler approach towards the defeated Afrikaaners.

Whether we like it or not, Rangers have a large following in Scotland. Let's not push the reasonable ones to unreasonable actions. Look to how the peace process in Northern Ireland is progressing. There has to be some concilliation, of course that would involve those "chosen by god" to try and come some of the way as well.

Far from weakening the stance of the Huns, this whole episode is just the sort of thing that will make them stronger. Their tradition comes from the Covenanters - "backs to the wall", "no surrender" etc. IMO the best thing to do is let them go on, in a severely weakend financial position, and see them melt away as the humiliations mount.

When they are getting gubbed by Peterhead and Annan Athletic, let's see how defiant they are then. Laughter is our best weapon.

[Ozyhibby]

We all know that Rangers is more than a football team. For many people, it is an institution that represents what (they think) Scotland is about. These people are already nervous about the break up of the Union, due to the majority of Scots thinking their destiny lies in an independent state.

It seems to me that a proportion of the population - not noted for its ability to see shades of grey, or to compromise, is being backed into a corner. I worry that the demise of Rangers could see them completely alienated from Scottish society, and (in their minds) left with no alternative but to come out fighting. I mean fighting with guns and bombs by the way.

It seems to me, that much as we loathe them for their arrogance and their cheating, we must think carefully about where we go with this situation. I'm thinking about Nelson Mandela's struggle to convince the ANC not to disband the Springboks - he argued that it was the only thing the Afrikaaners had left, and to take that away would leave them with nothing.

Even Franco had the sense to give the Catalans some way to vent their frustration at the Camp Nou. What the Huns stand for is about to be consigned to history - it's over for them. It's as much about managing the peace, as winning the war. I realise that people will say that sport is all that should matter, but unfortunately it's about more than sport in Scotland.

Some good points there but bugger it.. let's take a chance.

[lucky]

Don't think that we will break away there is not the political will to do so. However I do think that there would be reaction in the event of it happening

[bighairyfaeleith]

Bit heavy for this time of day ;)

Ok give them a giant Neil Lennon punchbag ;)

Why not just give them the real Neil Lennon?:wink:

[cad]

Government ,media, unorganised administration , all fighting the corner of the bad guy makes you wonder what else is out there.
You would need a carpet the size of Princes Street to sweep all this under, this is just the begining many many more are going to burn for this .

GGTTH:agree:

[Hainan Hibs]

I read once the Orange Order said they would turn militant in the event of independence so I wouldn't dismiss your average Hun from trying to do something:greengrin. I think Salmond coming over as the Queen's biggest supporter is a way to try and get some of the FollowFollow types onboard.

I wouldn't be calling a result to the referendum yet, the Quebec "Seperatists" were at 33% at one point and ended up with 49.4% in the actual referendum. Salmond and the crew will turn it around yet:greengrin

[AndyM_1875]

There's an awful lot of sound and fury been vented over the Rangers soap opera. The disgraceful way that club was run deserves suitably draconian punishment and that should be demotion to Division 3.

Justice should be delivered quickly after July 4. What must not be allowed is the Celtic-minded hysterics to have any influence on how Rangers are dealt with. Some of the thinly veiled bigotry posted in recent times on Celtic sites and the disgraceful language used by their champion blogger Phil MacGiollabhain quite honestly makes me spew.

The place in the SFL has to be allocated to Rangers and we leave them to get on with football whilst operating in a transparent manner on the business side. The SFA may also choose to boot them out of next years Scottish Cup.
They'll be back around 2015/16 having served their sentence. Newco or not, they're still Rangers and we won't let them forget their past crimes.

[Ross4356]

Salmond and the crew will turn it around yet:greengrin

Lets hope so

[jgl07]

I read once the Orange Order said they would turn militant in the event of independence so I wouldn't dismiss your average Hun from trying to do something:greengrin. I think Salmond coming over as the Queen's biggest supporter is a way to try and get some of the FollowFollow types onboard.

I wouldn't be calling a result to the referendum yet, the Quebec "Seperatists" were at 33% at one point and ended up with 49.4% in the actual referendum. Salmond and the crew will turn it around yet

Quebec is still part of Canada over 30 years after the first referendum.

[yeezus.]

I doubt they will take to armed struggle. They've had it easy within the union for long enough. I think by 2014 we will have independence and they will just have to deal with it in the same way that nationalists in the occupied 6 counties of Ireland have had to do.

I think an armed campaign is more likely if we don't get independence.

[Littlest Hobo]

The majority of Scots want to retain the union, according to the most recent polls.

Therefore, we can safely bin Newco.

I've never been asked and neither has anyone I know.

[Littlest Hobo]

I doubt they will take to armed struggle. They've had it easy within the union for long enough. I think by 2014 we will have independence and they will just have to deal with it in the same way that nationalists in the occupied 6 counties of Ireland have had to do.

I think an armed campaign is more likely if we don't get independence.

If things start to get really tight regards the austerity measures being taken by the Government, that's when folk start to squabble and before you know it.... Boom!! Ha ha Pmsl

[Phil D. Rolls]

I doubt they will take to armed struggle. They've had it easy within the union for long enough. I think by 2014 we will have independence and they will just have to deal with it in the same way that nationalists in the occupied 6 counties of Ireland have had to do.

I think an armed campaign is more likely if we don't get independence.

I wouldn't be so sure. If Scotland is Independent, there are issues for Northern Ireland, which will find itself sandwiched between two foreign powers. There are a lot of hoods over there, who were able to use armed conflict as a cover for their criminal activities - I don't suppose they are all selling flowers outside train stations.

It's hard to believe this is a thread about a football team.

[Ozyhibby]

Quebec is still part of Canada over 30 years after the first referendum.

30 years ago Quebec was entirely ruled by the Canada. Today it is largely autonomous and raises it own taxes.

[Gez1875]

The majority of Scots want to retain the union, according to the most recent polls.

Therefore, we can safely bin Newco.

40% of scots are pro independence this doesnt mean 60% are pro union, there are a number of undecided and dont cares around, i dont know the percentage, nobody seems to release it, i think no-one knows how many are against independence, and thats why west minster is nervous.

[hibs0666]

30 years ago Quebec was entirely ruled by the Canada. Today it is largely autonomous and raises it own taxes.

Devo max it is then.

[hibs0666]

40% of scots are pro independence this doesnt mean 60% are pro union, there are a number of undecided and dont cares around, i dont know the percentage, nobody seems to release it, i think no-one knows how many are against independence, and thats why west minster is nervous.

I think were all nervous.

[monktonharp]

suddenly we've all went political:rolleyes: is this a fitba' forum? or maybe we need a politics section...admins!! and a one percent section( that's for the lone hibby that just suggested giving newco 12th team's place in the spl) what are you thinking,man?

[Brizo]

We all know that Rangers is more than a football team. For many people, it is an institution that represents what (they think) Scotland is about. These people are already nervous about the break up of the Union, due to the majority of Scots thinking their destiny lies in an independent state.

It seems to me that a proportion of the population - not noted for its ability to see shades of grey, or to compromise, is being backed into a corner. I worry that the demise of Rangers could see them completely alienated from Scottish society, and (in their minds) left with no alternative but to come out fighting. I mean fighting with guns and bombs by the way.

It seems to me, that much as we loathe them for their arrogance and their cheating, we must think carefully about where we go with this situation. I'm thinking about Nelson Mandela's struggle to convince the ANC not to disband the Springboks - he argued that it was the only thing the Afrikaaners had left, and to take that away would leave them with nothing.

Even Franco had the sense to give the Catalans some way to vent their frustration at the Camp Nou. What the Huns stand for is about to be consigned to history - it's over for them. It's as much about managing the peace, as winning the war. I realise that people will say that sport is all that should matter, but unfortunately it's about more than sport in Scotland.

There is a common argument (and its not one im saying you are putting forward FR) that the OF provide a safety valve whereby tribal differences are limited to fitba related mayhem as opposed to the Norn Ireland style political mayhem which weve only relatively recently left behind.

Im not convinced thats the case. Cities like Liverpool and Manchester with similar demographics to Glasgow / west central Scotland had sectarian problems but these died out naturally by the 1960s. Theres no reason to believe that Scotlands problems couldnt have also died out naturally as both those aforementioned cities are imo basically English versions of Glasgow. The major difference is of course the existance of the OF. Rather than be a safety valve my views that they perpetuate tribal hatreds which died out decades ago in the rest of mainland UK.

With regard to the specific question of Rangers, their demise short term might lead to other clubs acquiring a Rangers lite element (something that you used to see back in the 70s and 80s at Dundee , KIllie and Mwell plus of course Doddys dirty diamonds and our own neebors) but long term I think their demise could have a very healthy affect on Scottish society.

[Dashing Bob S]

Alex Salmond was behind the scenes doing all he could to try and save them, just shows how dodgy independence could be.

We like to think we're like a Scandinavian country. We're not, sadly. it's a country full of bams with many still stuck in the 17th century.

Hopefully the death of Rangers might help shake some of that off but it's a slow battle as some of the posts on Rangers forums show.

To me, the whole pathetic Salmond mess shows why we need independence - its just a pity that a self-serving, manipulative toad like him be a principal beneficiary. I think until we learn to stand on our own two feet and start making decisions for ourselves, we'll always be that country of bams stuck in the 17th century. There will be disasters en route, but we certainly are not going grow up under the current set of arrangements - we haven't so far.

I think the demise of Rangers is political. The power of sectarianism has produced a highly successful club, which in turn has attracted glory hunters and sycophants who enjoy the association of that success and the patronage of such an institution. They, in turn, have become apologists for a small group of neanderthal clowns with too much to say for themselves, and who should have been marginalized decades ago. I would love to see Ranges put into a hiatus, and emerged cleaned-up, and in their proper context as a big Scottish club, stripped of their delusional nonsense. I think the responses to this crisis is part of the covert battle between an old guard who want the status quo at all costs, and a new way of thinking, looking forward to the future.

[JimBHibees]

There is a common argument (and its not one im saying you are putting forward FR) that the OF provide a safety valve whereby tribal differences are limited to fitba related mayhem as opposed to the Norn Ireland style political mayhem which weve only relatively recently left behind.

Im not convinced thats the case. Cities like Liverpool and Manchester with similar demographics to Glasgow / west central Scotland had sectarian problems but these died out naturally by the 1960s. Theres no reason to believe that Scotlands problems couldnt have also died out naturally as both those aforementioned cities are imo basically English versions of Glasgow. The major difference is of course the existance of the OF. Rather than be a safety valve my views that they perpetuate tribal hatreds which died out decades ago in the rest of mainland UK.

With regard to the specific question of Rangers, their demise short term might lead to other clubs acquiring a Rangers lite element (something that you used to see back in the 70s and 80s at Dundee , KIllie and Mwell plus of course Doddys dirty diamonds and our own neebors) but long term I think their demise could have a very healthy affect on Scottish society.

Nail on head the clubs have given a public forum for the expression of these hatreds which wouldnt have been the case if they were just normal football clubs.

[NAE NOOKIE]

We all know that Rangers is more than a football team. For many people, it is an institution that represents what (they think) Scotland is about. These people are already nervous about the break up of the Union, due to the majority of Scots thinking their destiny lies in an independent state.

It seems to me that a proportion of the population - not noted for its ability to see shades of grey, or to compromise, is being backed into a corner. I worry that the demise of Rangers could see them completely alienated from Scottish society, and (in their minds) left with no alternative but to come out fighting. I mean fighting with guns and bombs by the way.

It seems to me, that much as we loathe them for their arrogance and their cheating, we must think carefully about where we go with this situation. I'm thinking about Nelson Mandela's struggle to convince the ANC not to disband the Springboks - he argued that it was the only thing the Afrikaaners had left, and to take that away would leave them with nothing.

Even Franco had the sense to give the Catalans some way to vent their frustration at the Camp Nou. What the Huns stand for is about to be consigned to history - it's over for them. It's as much about managing the peace, as winning the war. I realise that people will say that sport is all that should matter, but unfortunately it's about more than sport in Scotland.

An interesting post.

If people really do follow Rangers because they think it represents what Scotland is all about, then I for one am having a struggle understanding exactly what they think that is.

If the demise of Rangers would leave certain factions of them feeling alienated fron Scottish society to an extent that they would be driven to take up the bomb and bullet then their take on the importance of their club to the fabric of this country and to their own lives is sadly exaggerated. Unfortunately this way of thinking is nurtured by the press and certain politicians.

The comparison with Barcelona / Catalonia is an interesting one. I may be wrong, but IMO the difference is that the Catalans turned the football club into a focus for expressing their unity and frustrations which they felt because they were Catalans. They didnt become disaffected Catalans because they supported Barcalona.

To me a large proportion ( not all ) of current buns get into the Orange / unionist stuff as a result of supporting rangers and not the other way around.

As it is, there is no chance that there will not be a Rangers in the years to come for them to focus their stupidity on, but I would hope that if there is one thing the newco can focus on its a chance to use their clean slate to distance themselves from the more extreme Billy boy, knuckle dragging elements of their support.

[WhileTheChief..]

What an absolutely ridiculous opening post.

Despite the common view on here that all Rangers fans are the lowest of the low, **** etc, etc, there are plenty that are just the same as fans of clubs up and down the country.

They will have decent jobs, wives, kids etc and yet you worry that if rangers are kicked out of football they will suddenly jack all of their normal life in to raise arms in some sort of rebellion??? Seriously???

I've read some nonsense about the Rangers situation but you've taken it to a new level. Take your political guff elsewhere.

[lyonhibs]

What an absolutely ridiculous opening post.

Despite the common view on here that all Rangers fans are the lowest of the low, **** etc, etc, there are plenty that are just the same as fans of clubs up and down the country.

They will have decent jobs, wives, kids etc and yet you worry that if rangers are kicked out of football they will suddenly jack all of their normal life in to raise arms in some sort of rebellion??? Seriously???

I've read some nonsense about the Rangers situation but you've taken it to a new level. Take your political guff elsewhere.

This is a rather more direct way of putting it than I would have chosen, but I entirely agree :agree:.

The OP does what a lot of Scottish football is doing far too much of at the moment, and wildly overestimates the size/importance of Rangers in Scottish society, and even more so on the Scottish political scene. They are a football club. Nothing more. The slavering "vocal minority" who rabbit on about "Wir Proddy roots" and probably think that becoming Independent would be some attack on their beliefs wouldn't know where to begin in mounting some sort of armed conflict.

Independence yes/no, Rangers Newco getting booted down the the 3rd division or not, we'll be seeing no armed conflicts in Scotland over either of those 2. This is 2012, not Culloden.

And the comparison with Barcelona made somewhere else in the thread is laughable. Govan is not Catalunya.

[snooky]

I read once the Orange Order said they would turn militant in the event of independence so I wouldn't dismiss your average Hun from trying to do something:greengrin. I think Salmond coming over as the Queen's biggest supporter is a way to try and get some of the FollowFollow types onboard.

I wouldn't be calling a result to the referendum yet, the Quebec "Seperatists" were at 33% at one point and ended up with 49.4% in the actual referendum. Salmond and the crew will turn it around yet:greengrin

Shame they never got that extra 1%. It would have sorted them out once & for all. :cb

[ancient hibee]

What a load of tosh on here.There are more people go to the library than go to football at the weekend.More likely to have armed insurrection if they close them down.

[yeezus.]

I wouldn't be so sure. If Scotland is Independent, there are issues for Northern Ireland, which will find itself sandwiched between two foreign powers. There are a lot of hoods over there, who were able to use armed conflict as a cover for their criminal activities - I don't suppose they are all selling flowers outside train stations.

It's hard to believe this is a thread about a football team.

Aye, I thought that an independent Scotland would almost certainly mean the unification of a 32 county republic and the breakaway of Wales. I think a fully devolved parliament in the North is now more likely as Sinn Fein head south with their party and end the dual mandate with the English parliament.

I know there are rumors going around about the resurgence of the SNLA, but the oppression of the British state that the Irish have felt is far greater than what the Scots have felt.

I live in among people who base their political beliefs on their football team - it's sad to see.

[HKhibby]

:agree: We should be able to trust our political leaders to do the right thing in any given situation: Salmond clearly doesn't even know what the right thing to do is most of the time.

You may or may not like this, i dont know you, and probably never will, i havnt lived in Scotland for a long time now, and indeed in the UK for a while now, I am a Hibs supporter...always will be, from anywhere i have lived, i support being in the UK, always have and always will, as do most people, and i consider my self British as well, i hate Hearts and the Old Firm (both passionatly), and i am not a big betting person...but if i were to put odds down to bet 2 things....Rangers FC will survive, as someone said they are more than a football club, whoever / whatever company ends up owning them will secure them...and the football league will cave in and allow them into the SPL as a new formed company with the same name.
the second, i am 45 now, and was to bet that Scotland will still be part of the UK in 30 years time...i would probably win alot of money...because that is what it is down to...money with the both of the above

[Phil D. Rolls]

What an absolutely ridiculous opening post.

Despite the common view on here that all Rangers fans are the lowest of the low, **** etc, etc, there are plenty that are just the same as fans of clubs up and down the country.

They will have decent jobs, wives, kids etc and yet you worry that if rangers are kicked out of football they will suddenly jack all of their normal life in to raise arms in some sort of rebellion??? Seriously???

I've read some nonsense about the Rangers situation but you've taken it to a new level. Take your political guff elsewhere.

Thanks for your reply.

I am only picking up on some of the points brought up by true blues in other threads. If there isn't a problem, that's great. I am slightly nervous though about some of the stuff coming out of Celtic minded sites, and although I am glad to see their demise, I think it's worth considering the bigger picture.

There is a link between Rangers and the Orange Order. There are oarts of Scotland where both mean a lot.

I can appreciate how annoying it is to have politics brought into sport. That's the reality in Scotland though.

[Hibs Class]

I doubt they will take to armed struggle. They've had it easy within the union for long enough. I think by 2014 we will have independence and they will just have to deal with it in the same way that nationalists in the occupied 6 counties of Ireland have had to do.

I think an armed campaign is more likely if we don't get independence.

This is in line with the usual pish you post. Do you ever think before typing or do you just pick a non sequitur for the day and fire it in?

[lyonhibs]

This is in line with the usual pish you post. Do you ever think before typing or do you just pick a non sequitur for the day and fire it in?

:faf::faf:
Almost as funny as the notion that SNP supporters would take up arms if they don't get full Independence.

[Hibernia&Alba]

We mustn't automatically form some concrete correlation between Rangers and political power. Yes the majority of their support is staunchly unionist and a minority is very vocal with its right-wing sectarian, xenophobic bile which sees the world as some Catholic and socialist conspiracy, though I've always found their connection between the Vatican and a left wing plot in Scotland very questionable. The Catholic church is hardly a bastion of leftist progressive thought.

In truth the bigots amongst their support are a laughing stock even amongst many Tory voting unionists, and their religious intolerance is increasingly irrelevant as society becomes ever more secular. Many Rangers fans are actually progressives - just look at the political map of Scotland in which Labour and the SNP dominate. The fact their hardcore screams about religion and the jingoism of a Scotland run by and for Catholics doesn't tell the full story of their ( the huns ) actual power and influence. That said we must never be complacent, for there is a historical sectarianism within the central belt that is dogged in its continuation.

In truth the Rangers support doesn't have the power or the desire ( dare I suggest the collective intelligence ) to defend a club they know has done wrong. The rabble rousers will posture and scream of conspiracy but the vast majority - good British citizens that they are - will murmur incoherently their disparate paranoid ramblings gleaned from websites but will carry on as before.

The SPL must do what is right without fear or favour, and I think the consequences of doing so will be minimal outside of football.

[yeezus.]

This is in line with the usual pish you post. Do you ever think before typing or do you just pick a non sequitur for the day and fire it in?

:thumbsup:nice way to avoid the topic completely.

[Hibs Class]

:thumbsup:nice way to avoid the topic completely.

I didn't avoid the topic. I read your post and described it - accurately - as pish. I then clarified it as pish of the type you usually post. I had considered expanding on why it was pish but realised there was little point in debating with you as you are incapable of rational debate. The only logical thing about you is that you are always illogical.

[Twa Cairpets]

You may or may not like this, i dont know you, and probably never will, i havnt lived in Scotland for a long time now, and indeed in the UK for a while now, I am a Hibs supporter...always will be, from anywhere i have lived, i support being in the UK, always have and always will, as do most people, and i consider my self British as well, i hate Hearts and the Old Firm (both passionatly), and i am not a big betting person...but if i were to put odds down to bet 2 things....Rangers FC will survive, as someone said they are more than a football club, whoever / whatever company ends up owning them will secure them...and the football league will cave in and allow them into the SPL as a new formed company with the same name.
the second, i am 45 now, and was to bet that Scotland will still be part of the UK in 30 years time...i would probably win alot of money...because that is what it is down to...money with the both of the above

Looks like independence is guaranteed now, thanks to the oracle that is HKhibby.

[Eyrie]

Looks like independence is guaranteed now, thanks to the oracle that is HKhibby.
It will be if he fronts the "Better Together" campaign:duck:

[Hainan Hibs]

It will be if he fronts the "Better Together" campaign:duck:

I'm willing to chip in for his flight:greengrin