Willie Miller ousted at the Dons

[ronaldo7]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/aberdeen-legend-wille-miller-ousted-in-shake-up-of-directors-1-2364004

[BEEJ]

Does anyone think he could do a job for Hibs alongside Hanlon ..........






:greengrin

[Kato]

Does anyone think he could do a job for Hibs alongside Hanlon ..........


:greengrin

He'd have reffed the Cup Final a bit more fairly than Thomson.

[oregonhibby]

A Director of Football! Doesn't always work, even for a legend, which he undoubtedly was for Aberdeen.

[Andy74]

I thought football men was what it's all about?

[Thecat23]

I thought football men was what it's all about?

I'd like a football man on our board. Just because it may not work with Willie Miller doesn't mean we should dismiss having a football minded guy on the board. We all know you don't want change Andy and think we should keep the guys who are in place. I don't and would welcome a wee change. But who ever is in charge I want them to have the best interests of Hibs and not themselves. No I'm not accusing Rod of this before you jump on that. I do think though he could be doing better.

[ScottB]

I'd like a football man on our board. Just because it may not work with Willie Miller doesn't mean we should dismiss having a football minded guy on the board. We all know you don't want change Andy and think we should keep the guys who are in place. I don't and would welcome a wee change. But who ever is in charge I want them to have the best interests of Hibs and not themselves. No I'm not accusing Rod of this before you jump on that. I do think though he could be doing better.

While in principal I don't disagree, I'm struggling to think of a situation where having a 'football minded' guy on a Board has done a club any good, Miller at the Dons, Nevin at Motherwell, Greg at Rangers etc etc.

Better for the club to take advice from the likes of Turnbull (in the past obviously), which I'm sure they do as it stands, rather than add another wage to our bill for someone that wouldn't be qualified to run the business beyond having presumably played for Hibs at some point in the past.

[RIP]

Down-sizing - pure and simple

At Hibs we now only have 3 paid directors and they are all working very long weeks

Look for the big drop in directors remuneration in the next set of accounts

[Beefster]

I thought football men was what it's all about?

I think that his £150k salary and diminishing role at Aberdeen will have contributed to his demise.

[marinello59]

That's a shame. I thought his legendary chip shop running skills were driving the Dons in the right direction. Hopefully they eventually replace him with somebody equally as incompetent.

[blackpoolhibs]

Those in favour of a football man involved at Hibs, who would you like?

[blaikie]

Those in favour of a football man involved at Hibs, who would you like?

John Collins ....

[Andy74]

Those in favour of a football man involved at Hibs, who would you like?

And why would we not just make them a manager and be done with it? I don't think any manager likes his footballing decisions to be questioned.

You couold argue our recent ones could have done with it but would the Director have done better?

Is getting a decent manager just not what it's about?

Willie Miller was the one that often got quoted on here. Aberdeen have been as bad as us recently and he's now been done away with.

[blackpoolhibs]

John Collins ....

And if he didn't get his own way?

[Kojock]

And if he didn't get his own way?

He'll scweam and scweam until hes sick! :jamboak:

[blackpoolhibs]

He'll scweam and scweam until hes sick! :jamboak:

Yip he would, then walk out of the job. He'd last about 10 minutes imo, and with his man management skills, he'd piss off every man woman and child within a 20 mile radius of easter road.

And Pat Fenlon i'm sure would love to have someone watching over him, scrutinising every move he made. :rolleyes:

[Thecat23]

Don't get my point confused with a director of football role. I just would want someone who's maybe played the game and can understand what a manager would need when presenting the players. Not someone who will question the manager but one who understands what the manager is looking for and can do everything they can even if it means paying that little bit extra nothing major just enough to get a team on the park that will bring back some lost fans and that in itself will generate cash back.

[blackpoolhibs]

Don't get my point confused with a director of football role. I just would want someone who's maybe played the game and can understand what a manager would need when presenting the players. Not someone who will question the manager but one who understands what the manager is looking for and can do everything they can even if it means paying that little bit extra nothing major just enough to get a team on the park that will bring back some lost fans and that in itself will generate cash back.

Can you name me one director of football thats been a success? Does Fergie need a director of football, or Wenger or even Stuart McCall?

[Beefster]

Those in favour of a football man involved at Hibs, who would you like?

Davie Farrell.

[blackpoolhibs]

Davie Farrell.

I'd prefer someone like Brian Kerr.

[Beefster]

I'd prefer someone like Brian Kerr.

Good shout. He'd work hard in the background.

[Thecat23]

Can you name me one director of football thats been a success? Does Fergie need a director of football, or Wenger or even Stuart McCall?

BH I wasn't saying a DOF just someone on the board who has been involved in a playing capacity.

[blackpoolhibs]

BH I wasn't saying a DOF just someone on the board who has been involved in a playing capacity.

Sorry, i picked you up wrong. Although again i disagree, for me it would just take another wage up, one our manager could really do with. Again i'm not sure those 3 managers i mentioned, 2 at the top of the game, and 1 in the SPL would thank you for depriving them of money they could spend on the team.

We need our manager to step up to the plate, and start managing the funds he gets better than those around him, and taking into account he will get more funds than most clubs, who are doing better than us, and they dont have directors of football.

[bawheid]

BH I wasn't saying a DOF just someone on the board who has been involved in a playing capacity.

How did it work out when we brought Billy McNeil in?

[Thecat23]

Sorry, i picked you up wrong. Although again i disagree, for me it would just take another wage up, one our manager could really do with. Again i'm not sure those 3 managers i mentioned, 2 at the top of the game, and 1 in the SPL would thank you for depriving them of money they could spend on the team.

We need our manager to step up to the plate, and start managing the funds he gets better than those around him, and taking into account he will get more funds than most clubs, who are doing better than us, and they dont have directors of football.

Fully agree with this. As for taking up a wage I would only want someone like that to come in after a couple of the board have left or stepped down. I wouldn't want to add as it stands, like you say, that would take away much needed funds for our manager.

[Caversham Green]

I understand what Thecat's saying. A former player and manager - not necessarily successful - who could give the board a better insight into the manager's job. He wouldn't have to be director of football or even a paid director, just a knowledgable voice in the boardroom. The problem the manager faces is that he is always addressing his employers and that alters the way he addresses them even if he's not conscious of it. A football man on the board could act as a go-between and also a sounding board for both sides.

Pat Stanton and Alex Miller are two names that spring to mind. On the other hand, Jim Duffy also fits the bill....

[Thecat23]

How did it work out when we brought Billy McNeil in?

Wasn't he DOF? If so again you missed my point or haven't read my posts. I'd like someone on the board like Pat Nevin. Comes across very well and is grounded. He knows what the fans would like to see and his advice for me would be welcomed. But for folk not reading this right.... NOT A DOF ROLE THOUGH.

[Thecat23]

Caversham Green;3268991]I understand what Thecat's saying. A former player and manager - not necessarily successful - who could give the board a better insight into the manager's job. He wouldn't have to be director of football or even a paid director, just a knowledgable voice in the boardroom. The problem the manager faces is that he is always addressing his employers and that alters the way he addresses them even if he's not conscious of it. A football man on the board could act as a go-between and also a sounding board for both sides. [/B]

Pat Stanton and Alex Miller are two names that spring to mind. On the other hand, Jim Duffy also fits the bill....

Thank god finally someone understanding what i'm trying to say :agree: I honestly think this would be a huge help. Worth a try at least.

[blackpoolhibs]

I understand what Thecat's saying. A former player and manager - not necessarily successful - who could give the board a better insight into the manager's job. He wouldn't have to be director of football or even a paid director, just a knowledgable voice in the boardroom. The problem the manager faces is that he is always addressing his employers and that alters the way he addresses them even if he's not conscious of it. A football man on the board could act as a go-between and also a sounding board for both sides.

Pat Stanton and Alex Miller are two names that spring to mind. On the other hand, Jim Duffy also fits the bill....

I cant see the need for a go between CG, i'd hope whoever was the manager would be able to approach the board at any time without fear? A go between for me is a childish way to go about things, and can only really cause confusion and divide, something we dont need imo.

[Stevie Reid]

Wasn't he DOF? If so again you missed my point or haven't read my posts. I'd like someone on the board like Pat Nevin. Comes across very well and is grounded. He knows what the fans would like to see and his advice for me would be welcomed. But for folk not reading this right.... NOT A DOF ROLE THOUGH.

I think Billy McNeill's role was labelled as General Manager. It was basically an admission (by both Hibs and Duffy) that Jim Duffy was way out of his depth.

[Kato]

On the other hand, Jim Duffy also fits the bill....

Coincidently my foot fits his erky.

[The Modfather]

Yip he would, then walk out of the job. He'd last about 10 minutes imo, and with his man management skills, he'd piss off every man woman and child within a 20 mile radius of easter road.

And Pat Fenlon i'm sure would love to have someone watching over him, scrutinising every move he made. :rolleyes:

Hopefully he would have explained to the poor wee souls who were bastions of fitness and professionalisim, how to win a trophy. Before he "pissed off every man woman and child within a 20 mile radius of easter road" and "walked out of the job".

[Caversham Green]

I cant see the need for a go between CG, i'd hope whoever was the manager would be able to approach the board at any time without fear? A go between for me is a childish way to go about things, and can only really cause confusion and divide, something we dont need imo.

Not really an official go-between though, just someone who might have a better understanding of what the manager is saying and can speak to the board on equal terms rather than servant to master. I think John Collins might have fared better with a respected football man on the board.

I saw it work in different circumstances when I was on the board of a charity. A manager left the charity's employment and joined the board as a trustee. Her attitude changed completely and IMO she made a more useful contribution to the charity as a whole as a trustee.

Nice ass too, but that's probably not relevant here.

[bawheid]

Wasn't he DOF? If so again you missed my point or haven't read my posts. I'd like someone on the board like Pat Nevin. Comes across very well and is grounded. He knows what the fans would like to see and his advice for me would be welcomed. But for folk not reading this right.... NOT A DOF ROLE THOUGH.

Sorry, I see what you're saying now.

I would just worry that if someone was brought in to have a "football" role, and he wasn't brought in by the manager, then that might create problems.

Wouldn't be adverse to Pat Nevin coming in (let's keep him away from the finances though, eh), as long as Fenlon was 100% happy about it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Not really an official go-between though, just someone who might have a better understanding of what the manager is saying and can speak to the board on equal terms rather than servant to master. I think John Collins might have fared better with a respected football man on the board.

I saw it work in different circumstances when I was on the board of a charity. A manager left the charity's employment and joined the board as a trustee. Her attitude changed completely and IMO she made a more useful contribution to the charity as a whole as a trustee.

Nice ass too, but that's probably not relevant here.

Fair enough, and you have had more experience of this. I have just not seen it work at any club, unless i have missed it?

If we are to go down that route, someone with a nice ass would never be a bad thing? :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

Hopefully he would have explained to the poor wee souls who were bastions of fitness and professionalisim, how to win a trophy. Before he "pissed off every man woman and child within a 20 mile radius of easter road" and "walked out of the job".

Great reply, yet someone who did win a trophy, quit. He quit because he could not get his ideas over, he couldn't manage men and did the easy thing by walking away. He'd be no good as a hun.

[BEEJ]

Not really an official go-between though, just someone who might have a better understanding of what the manager is saying and can speak to the board on equal terms rather than servant to master. I think John Collins might have fared better with a respected football man on the board.
:agree: I agree with this.

And the role could be non-exec and unpaid.

[Caversham Green]

Fair enough, and you have had more experience of this. I have just not seen it work at any club, unless i have missed it?

If we are to go down that route, someone with a nice ass would never be a bad thing? :greengrin

I agree there aren't many, but Reading have Nicky Hammond as DoF - he was a goalie here in the nineties. He keeps a pretty low profile and doesn't really match the description I've been talking about, but they're doing alright just now.

Couldn't tell you what his ass is like, before you ask.

[calmac12000]

I'd need convincing that the DoF role isn't simply an unnecessary jobs for the boys type set 46: one which in the current precarious financial environment for Scottish football is a luxury quite frankly that we cannot afford.

[The Modfather]

Great reply, yet someone who did win a trophy, quit. He quit because he could not get his ideas over, he couldn't manage men and did the easy thing by walking away. He'd be no good as a hun.

A large aspect of why he walked was because Hibs were not ready/willing to change the culture of the club. Which is what he wanted, and tried to do (which doesn't mean Collins didn't make mistakes, like signings etc).

It took another 3 years of falling crowds, apathy, needing a "pre"-season midway through the season, and the biggest bodyblow/humiliation in our lifetimes, before the board realised what needed done. "new Hibs, new attitude" etc.

[reversep]

Alex Smith, he,s got vast knowledge of the Scottish game at all levels.
He,s the main reason Falkirk,s youth system is now flourishing.
I,d quite happily free up Billy Brown,s wage to get him in.

[Andy74]

Are we really suggesting that our board, including one of the most senior figures in Scottish football and a former EPL club CEO as well as the others who have now worked at a football club for a number of years don't understand football or how to deal with the manager?

[blackpoolhibs]

A large aspect of why he walked was because Hibs were not ready/willing to change the culture of the club. Which is what he wanted, and tried to do (which doesn't mean Collins didn't make mistakes, like signings etc).

It took another 3 years of falling crowds, apathy, needing a "pre"-season midway through the season, and the biggest bodyblow/humiliation in our lifetimes, before the board realised what needed done. "new Hibs, new attitude" etc.

His walking away said to me he did not have the stomach for the fight, Petrie told him he had his backing, he'd implement anything he wanted. He backed him over the players revolt, but the reason he walked away was he would not get to spend more than we could afford.

Collins Couldn't get his own way, he walked. We dont need more quitters at easter road, we need people up for a fight.

[Caversham Green]

Are we really suggesting that our board, including one of the most senior figures in Scottish football and a former EPL club CEO as well as the others who have now worked at a football club for a number of years don't understand football or how to deal with the manager?

It's not what I'm suggesting.

I'm saying that someone who has actually done a football manager's job might give an added insight to those who haven't and give an added dimension to a board that right now looks as though they need plenty of both of those commodities. It works in other industries, why not try it in football?

[allezsauzee]

I don't think there's any need for a 'football man' on the board. The manager should be in charge of running the team without interference from others. The board should concentrate on running the other aspects of the club and making sure that the manager has the support (financial and otherwise) to make it happen on the field. Where i do think we could do with with input from a 'football man' is when we are choosing the manager. We don't need to employ him as a director, we just need him to help the board judge as a consultant, who is the best candidate for the job. With Miller I think he was there mainly to keep the fans off Stewart Milne's back.

[The Modfather]

His walking away said to me he did not have the stomach for the fight, Petrie told him he had his backing, he'd implement anything he wanted. He backed him over the players revolt, but the reason he walked away was he would not get to spend more than we could afford.

Collins Couldn't get his own way, he walked. We dont need more quitters at easter road, we need people up for a fight.

Collins won a trophy, we need more winners at Easter Road... We could go round in circles here.

The way I see it, in simplistic high level terms, is that Collins was far too modern and progressive in his views on football and profesionalisim for Hibs (or most Scottish/British clubs for that matter). The other side of the coin is that he may not have been experienced enough for an SPL job without "cutting his teeth" at a smaller club first/having the correct support/experience beside him i.e not Tommy Craig.

As a result of 3 years of sinking towards the first division, and THAT game, the board may now have realised that the club Collins wanted us to be, is in fact where we should be, and that changes are needed far outwith just replacing the team. "New Hibs, new attitude" etc. Although until I see the long term fruits of this, I will treat it as little more than yet another soundbite.

[Thecat23]

Are we really suggesting that our board, including one of the most senior figures in Scottish football and a former EPL club CEO as well as the others who have now worked at a football club for a number of years don't understand football or how to deal with the manager?

Who is saying this Andy? If that's what you're getting from my posts sadly your'e way off the mark. I simply suggested that a former footballer could help Hibs in say picking a manager or give a players side of things to the board. I do think a couple could be moved on who are on the board yes. But I never said they "don't understand football" nice try though. :greengrin

[Thecat23]

It's not what I'm suggesting.

I'm saying that someone who has actually done a football manager's job might give an added insight to those who haven't and give an added dimension to a board that right now looks as though they need plenty of both of those commodities. It works in other industries, why not try it in football?

Couldn't agree with this any more. But I think we may be the only one's here. Seems a few folk are a tad frightened of change at boardroom level!

[jgl07]

A Director of Football is not really required in the UK style setup with a strong manager.

Maybe it will work in the Continental system where coaches are fairly disposable and rarely last more than two seasons. A Director of Football can then provide continuity and have more input into contract negotiations and signing players.

If you go back to Manchester United when Matt Busby retired as manager but became a director. He stalked the corridors making life impossible for the likes of Wilf McGuinness, Frank O'Farrell, and Dave Sexton. Only Tommy Docherty, Ron Atkinson and Alex Ferguson who were all strong characters stayed around very long while Busby was on the scene.

I just hope that when Ferguson does step down as manager he will be appointed to the board and do a similar job!

[Speedway]

How did it work out when we brought Billy McNeil in?

Billy The Fish couldn't have helped Duffy. His taxi was leaving before the helicopter landed.

[blackpoolhibs]

Collins won a trophy, we need more winners at Easter Road... We could go round in circles here.

The way I see it, in simplistic high level terms, is that Collins was far too modern and progressive in his views on football and profesionalisim for Hibs (or most Scottish/British clubs for that matter). The other side of the coin is that he may not have been experienced enough for an SPL job without "cutting his teeth" at a smaller club first/having the correct support/experience beside him i.e not Tommy Craig.

As a result of 3 years of sinking towards the first division, and THAT game, the board may now have realised that the club Collins wanted us to be, is in fact where we should be, and that changes are needed far outwith just replacing the team. "New Hibs, new attitude" etc. Although until I see the long term fruits of this, I will treat it as little more than yet another soundbite.

I agree we need more winners, but we need them winners to also have a backbone and work through times of adversity. Can you give me any specifics in where Petrie did not back Collins, be it support to change attitude or cash to spend?

Collins had the backing of the board to do anything he wanted, except spend cash we did not have. He walked away because he was not allowed to spend the money the club brought in from the sales we made that summer and before.

[Niffy]

Davie Farrell.

You mean Mr Farrell.

[allezsauzee]

You mean Mr Farrell.


Never mind as DoF , get Faz back in midfield after the turd we watched last season!

[Eyrie]

A full time Director of Football wouldn't work because he'd be continually looking over the manager's shoulder. However having an experienced ex-manager or player as an unpaid non-executive director who only attends board meetings makes sense and would provide additional insight for the other directors, each of whom would bring a different background and perspective to the board discussions (eg legal, personnel, marketing, finance).

[blackpoolhibs]

A full time Director of Football wouldn't work because he'd be continually looking over the manager's shoulder. However having an experienced ex-manager or player as an unpaid non-executive director who only attends board meetings makes sense and would provide additional insight for the other directors, each of whom would bring a different background and perspective to the board discussions (eg legal, personnel, marketing, finance).

I'm not convinced it would, what if he shared the same feelings as the manager, how would that help?

Or what if he took the boards view over the manager too often?

[erin go bragh]

Pat Stanton :not worth

ggtth

[oxymoron]

the aberdeen press and journal ran the "am totally gutted" story with the quote:

"I leave with a heavy heart and a sense that my job is only half done. We had a ten year plan in place to develop and bring through young players. We were eight years into that and I would have liked to see it through to the end"

methinks a half done job eight years into a ten year plan may well have been one of the problems wullie!

[Eyrie]

I'm not convinced it would, what if he shared the same feelings as the manager, how would that help?

Or what if he took the boards view over the manager too often?
The same situation could arise with any director, but it would be helpful to have an additional football perspective to offset the collection of bean counters on the current board. Mind you, given how long Petrie has been at Easter Road and involved with the SFA he could be viewed as a football person.

[blackpoolhibs]

The same situation could arise with any director, but it would be helpful to have an additional football perspective to offset the collection of bean counters on the current board. Mind you, given how long Petrie has been at Easter Road and involved with the SFA he could be viewed as a football person.

I'm not convinced, it is a difficult one. And those who make the decisions to appoint the manager have hardly got that one right too often, who would appoint this director of football?

[R'Albin]

That's a shame. I thought his legendary chip shop running skills were driving the Dons in the right direction. Hopefully they eventually replace him with somebody equally as incompetent.

:agree::greengrin

[Eyrie]

I'm not convinced, it is a difficult one. And those who make the decisions to appoint the manager have hardly got that one right too often, who would appoint this director of football?


Now you're complicating matters by raising inconvenient points about our board's inability to appoint a good manager (think they've managed it with Fenlon though). But yes, the board would vet prospective candidates and I accept that is not grounds for optimism. Then again, how could it make things worse?

Pedantic point - it wouldn't be a director of football but a director with a football background.

[blackpoolhibs]

Now you're complicating matters by raising inconvenient points about our board's inability to appoint a good manager (think they've managed it with Fenlon though). But yes, the board would vet prospective candidates and I accept that is not grounds for optimism. Then again, how could it make things worse?

Pedantic point - it wouldn't be a director of football but a director with a football background.

It may complicate things a little more than a post on a message board? I have heard 2 names mentioned today, John Collins and Pat Stanton. Both ex legends, more pressure on the manager, again i'm still to be convinced it would work, would Fenlon even want it?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

His walking away said to me he did not have the stomach for the fight, Petrie told him he had his backing, he'd implement anything he wanted. He backed him over the players revolt, but the reason he walked away was he would not get to spend more than we could afford.

Collins Couldn't get his own way, he walked. We dont need more quitters at easter road, we need people up for a fight.

This in a nutshell illustrates the problem in communicatiOn at Hibs an incident where a lot has been said but the club (I thought they said they were going to address some misconceptions) have done little/nothing to clarify the posistion for which many/all see as the beginning of the rot setting in...

[Eyrie]

It may complicate things a little more than a post on a message board? I have heard 2 names mentioned today, John Collins and Pat Stanton. Both ex legends, more pressure on the manager, again i'm still to be convinced it would work, would Fenlon even want it?

All depends on the role that they are given. Someone like Stanton as a unpaid non-executive director would work as they would simply be bringing a different perspective to the board discussions in the same way that a lawyer or PR consultant would. It's slightly odd that our board does not have anyone with direct experience of our sole business of playing football. I'm sure Tesco has directors who were appointed for their knowledge of retail rather than accountancy or law.

On the other hand a younger man with his own ambitions in the game like Collins or someone working full time for the club could cause friction with the manager, which is where I'd agree with you that such an appointment would be a bad idea.

[Andy74]

All depends on the role that they are given. Someone like Stanton as a unpaid non-executive director would work as they would simply be bringing a different perspective to the board discussions in the same way that a lawyer or PR consultant would. It's slightly odd that our board does not have anyone with direct experience of our sole business of playing football. I'm sure Tesco has directors who were appointed for their knowledge of retail rather than accountancy or law.

On the other hand a younger man with his own ambitions in the game like Collins or someone working full time for the club could cause friction with the manager, which is where I'd agree with you that such an appointment would be a bad idea.

I'd think Tesco would have people on the board with experience of running retail businesses. Would any of them have stacked shelves though?

[Eyrie]

I'd think Tesco would have people on the board with experience of running retail businesses. Would any of them have stacked shelves though?

I think the shelf stacker role is probably the equivalent of a former schools player, rather than a retired ex-manager or former player who has been involved with the club for a number of years.

I'll drop this now since I'd get more support if I advocated letting the Huns off the hook!