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View Full Version : Motherwell statement favours Newco, but now letting fans vote (merged)



lyonhibs
18-06-2012, 06:42 PM
..... all in a pretty line, wrapped up in bumph and dubious figures.

http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2012/06/18/club-statement-%E2%80%93-spl-and-%E2%80%98newco%E2%80%99/

Any other clubs put up similarly mealy mouthed releases yet?

I assume the results of the vote will be made public?

GGTTH :flag:

Littlest Hobo
18-06-2012, 07:03 PM
In short they have to work out what decision of the two will least effect them financially.

It's not about that, it's about doing what's right. FFS!!

Self interest is all that the clubs are interested in, does my ****in nut in.

I'm seriously thinking about walking away from Scottish fitba, what a bunch of shysters!

Sir David Gray
18-06-2012, 07:08 PM
They really could have made that statement a lot shorter by just saying something along the lines of;

Dear suckers

Just to let you know, we will be voting in favour of The Rangers playing in the SPL next season, despite the fact that the vast majority of you who have been in touch with the club in recent weeks and months over this issue have consistently informed us that you did not wish to see this happen.

Yours

Sell-outs

Pretty Boy
18-06-2012, 07:08 PM
Shame.

I always enjoyed an away trip to Motherwell.

LancashireHibby
18-06-2012, 07:10 PM
Shame.

I always enjoyed an away trip to Motherwell.
Same here. Hope they enjoy the Hun pound.

givescotlandfreedom
18-06-2012, 07:12 PM
Shame.

I always enjoyed an away trip to Motherwell.

I won't be back either.

SteveHFC
18-06-2012, 07:12 PM
Shame.

I always enjoyed an away trip to Motherwell.

Same. I thought their pies were quite decent :agree:

ancient hibee
18-06-2012, 07:13 PM
What beats me is that a couple of years ago Rangers would have happily walked off into the sunset with Celtic to England without a backward look at the SPL and yet clubs are crawling up their backsides.Obviously if the votes ever come out those that vote in favour of Rangers will get no more visits from me-it's the only way to make them pay.

Gatecrasher
18-06-2012, 07:16 PM
I won't be back either.
Same, One of the closest away grounds to me as well.

blackpoolhibs
18-06-2012, 07:16 PM
What beats me is that a couple of years ago Rangers would have happily walked off into the sunset with Celtic to England without a backward look at the SPL and yet clubs are crawling up their backsides.Obviously if the votes ever come out those that vote in favour of Rangers will get no more visits from me-it's the only way to make them pay.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2009/10/16/walter-smith-scottish-football-will-die-if-old-firm-are-denied-move-elsewhere-86908-21751069/

Mon Dieu4
18-06-2012, 07:21 PM
Looks like their directors might stitch up the fan based well society before they have a say in it

Westie1875
18-06-2012, 07:21 PM
..... all in a pretty line, wrapped up in bumph and dubious figures.

http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2012/06/18/club-statement-–-spl-and-‘newco’/

Any other clubs put up similarly mealy mouthed releases yet?

I assume the results of the vote will be made public?

GGTTH :flag:


Wow, that is an embarrassment. They may as well just have written "the money from newco's fans is more important than our own supporters", no need for the rest as this is basically what it says. :bitchy:

DaveF
18-06-2012, 07:22 PM
Same, One of the closest away grounds to me as well.

Me too. Always went to Fir Park due to being the closest away ground, but they can forget my £20+

Cabbage East
18-06-2012, 07:25 PM
Dear supporters,

Money>you.

Catch yis.


No more away trips to Motherwell for me.

Pretty Boy
18-06-2012, 07:25 PM
Wow, that is an embarrassment. They may as well just have written "the money from newco's fans is more important than our own supporters", no need for the rest as this is basically what it says. :bitchy:

Exactly.

I sincerely hope they run out to a completely empty away stand when they play all the clubs who do the right thing next season and beyond.

A statement like that makes it clear they value money above all so hit them in the pocket.

IWasThere2016
18-06-2012, 07:28 PM
..... all in a pretty line, wrapped up in bumph and dubious figures.

http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2012/06/18/club-statement-%E2%80%93-spl-and-%E2%80%98newco%E2%80%99/

Any other clubs put up similarly mealy mouthed releases yet?

I assume the results of the vote will be made public?

GGTTH :flag:

I am sure I read the vote would not be revealed for fears of retribution. I am starting to think the Chairmen will want a compromise with Rangers which avoids a vote altogether.

3pm
18-06-2012, 07:32 PM
I am sure I read the vote would not be revealed for fears of retribution. I am starting to think the Chairmen will want a compromise with Rangers which avoids a vote altogether.

Such as?

Sylar
18-06-2012, 07:35 PM
A quick perusal of the Motherwell forums show they're absolutely livid about this and will take the decision to walk away.

Could be a very quiet SPL next year if Rangers get the sufficient number of votes.

PatHead
18-06-2012, 07:35 PM
Must admit I didn't read it as a yes vote.

More an appeal for supporters to understand the financial problems and an appeal to buy season tickets. The last line "it is vital that we continue to work together as a club to enable us to emerge from the current SPL difficulties with our integrity and optimism intact.” the reference to integrity and there is only one vote which they can take to keep this intact.

Onion
18-06-2012, 07:38 PM
Looks like their directors might stitch up the fan based well society before they have a say in it

With a lot fewer away fans and pissing off their own fans, I can see crowds of 1000 attending their home games in the not too distant future. Let's hear their Directors defend that !

Sir David Gray
18-06-2012, 07:45 PM
Must admit I didn't read it as a yes vote.

More an appeal for supporters to understand the financial problems and an appeal to buy season tickets. The last line "it is vital that we continue to work together as a club to enable us to emerge from the current SPL difficulties with our integrity and optimism intact.” the reference to integrity and there is only one vote which they can take to keep this intact.

It's not just this statement though.

They have released a couple of statements on this issue now and they've all been alluding to the fact that they're almost certainly going to be voting "yes".

Onion
18-06-2012, 07:46 PM
I am sure I read the vote would not be revealed for fears of retribution. I am starting to think the Chairmen will want a compromise with Rangers which avoids a vote altogether.

If ever there was a case of being "in the public interest", the transparency of the SPL vote is it. This is not about people dying or being victimised, it is about people making an informed decision on how to spend their money and Saturday afternoons. We have an absolute right to know if this league is corrupt and totally without sporting integrity.

Maybe Leveson will be looking for new job to get his teeth into shortly ?

Last Minute
18-06-2012, 07:46 PM
we should all stay away from any ground that votes yes

PatHead
18-06-2012, 07:49 PM
Think the Motherwell statement is stronger than the St Mirren one and they are meant to be voting no!

The Board of Directors as well as all other St Mirren supporters totally understands the sense of injustice felt at this time instigated by the way in which another club in our League has conducted their affairs.Once all the facts are available to the Board of Directors, they shall take any decisions that are required, in the best interests of St Mirren Football Club only as their guiding line.
The Scottish Football Authorities and Commercial partners, over which we have limited control, have many decisions to make prior to our Board making any valued appraisal.
The Board have a responsibility to make the correct decision for St Mirren Football Club and as Directors of the Company, they have done so over a long period of time, this policy shall continue during this difficult period for Scottish Football.

jamieross
18-06-2012, 07:49 PM
I dont know if this is related to the 'newco' argument or not, just saw it mentioned on twitter before

http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=13244

3pm
18-06-2012, 07:54 PM
we should all stay away from any ground that votes yes

What if Hearts vote 'yes'?

Steve20
18-06-2012, 07:56 PM
we should all stay away from any ground that votes yes

I understand a lot of people will. However, I enjoy a trip to Motherwell for the football and won't deny myself it on the chance that Rangers might be in the league.

Offside Trap
18-06-2012, 07:58 PM
Must admit I didn't read it as a yes vote.

More an appeal for supporters to understand the financial problems and an appeal to buy season tickets. The last line "it is vital that we continue to work together as a club to enable us to emerge from the current SPL difficulties with our integrity and optimism intact.” the reference to integrity and there is only one vote which they can take to keep this intact.

That's how I read it too. I think this is a candid statement from MFC seeking to articulate the moral vs financial dilemma facing most of the clubs. Just like the rest of us, football clubs have bills to pay and financial commitments to honour.

What would help enormously at the moment is a statement from Sky setting out their position. From a Corporate Responsibility/PR perspective, are they really going to renege on a contract because steps have been taken by authorities to punish underlying failure to pay tax and cheating? That doesn't sit particularly comfortably with the following from Sky's own Ways of Working Statement:

"We expect everyone we do business with to deliver
a high-quality service and provide good value for
money, as well as maintain the highest ethical
standards and comply with all relevant laws and
regulations (including, for example, compliance
with data protection, bribery and environmental
legislation). These are the criteria we assess
when we tender contracts and award business
to suppliers."

Onion
18-06-2012, 07:59 PM
A quick perusal of the Motherwell forums show they're absolutely livid about this and will take the decision to walk away.

Could be a very quiet SPL next year if Rangers get the sufficient number of votes.

I can't think of one other thing, other than perhaps the National Team (in the good old days), uniting fans of different clubs more than this. It's astonishing that SFA, SPL and our own clubs have not pre-empted the vote and just said "F*** it we're not going to let these cheating shysters into our league, we're better than that".The fact that we're STILL waiting speaks volumes for the quality of the people we have in charge of our national sport.

And have you noticed how quiet all the politicians have been. If there were votes to be had here, they would have been all over this farce. Running scared sh*tless.

SloopJB
18-06-2012, 08:02 PM
..... all in a pretty line, wrapped up in bumph and dubious figures.

http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2012/06/18/club-statement-–-spl-and-‘newco’/ (http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2012/06/18/club-statement-%E2%80%93-spl-and-%E2%80%98newco%E2%80%99/)

Any other clubs put up similarly mealy mouthed releases yet?

I assume the results of the vote will be made public?

GGTTH :flag:

This should be sent to all of the clubs with a message that while it's refreshing to at last have official statements, this one merely adds to the plethora of assumptions already circulating regarding the situation faced by Rangers and the SPL.
It's disappointing to see that clubs have a decision to make based on what the club feels is the best for them rather than based on clear factual evidence.

The released statement implies that the situation is complicated.
It's not, It's simple.
Is there a route into the SPL for a club member who has been liquidated and what is the consequence of that decision.
'Yes' and the club retains the place as well as everything else that goes with the old team.
'No' and the club has no link with the old team.

This would be the case for any club liquidated.


To base any decision on your own clubs financial income is itself an affront to sporting integrity.

Pete
18-06-2012, 08:05 PM
What if Hearts vote 'yes'?

If hearts vote yes then I'll never again set foot in their ground. There will be no exceptions as far as I'm concerned.

Hibernia Na Eir
18-06-2012, 08:06 PM
Seriously guys, is ANYONE really surprised about this, given the backgrounds and ties between Rangers and the town of Motherwell?

Onion
18-06-2012, 08:06 PM
That's how I read it too. I think this is a candid statement from MFC seeking to articulate the moral vs financial dilemma facing most of the clubs. Just like the rest of us, football clubs have bills to pay and financial commitments to honour.

What would help enormously at the moment is a statement from Sky setting out their position. From a Corporate Responsibility/PR perspective, are they really going to renege on a contract because steps have been taken by authorities to punish underlying failure to pay tax and cheating? That doesn't sit particularly comfortably with the following from Sky's own Ways of Working Statement:

"We expect everyone we do business with to deliver
a high-quality service and provide good value for
money, as well as maintain the highest ethical
standards and comply with all relevant laws and
regulations (including, for example, compliance
with data protection, bribery and environmental
legislation). These are the criteria we assess
when we tender contracts and award business
to suppliers."


Sadly, everyone knows the dilemma. The fact is once you start compromising your integrity, there is NO SPORT LEFT. It's akin to a rich, guilty man handing the judge a ton of money to ignore the charge. If integrity is second to money, society is doomed.

Littlest Hobo
18-06-2012, 08:06 PM
I've got a feeling that we will vote to keep them too.

Purely for financial reasons.

I'll be astonished if they don't get voted in.

Sir David Gray
18-06-2012, 08:09 PM
I've got a feeling that we will vote to keep them too.

Purely for financial reasons.

I'll be astonished if they don't get voted in.

I'm almost certain that we will be voting against them.

I'd be astonished and disgusted if we voted otherwise.

blackpoolhibs
18-06-2012, 08:12 PM
I really despair at some folk, how on earth can these chairmen vote yes, when they know they will be alienating their own support.

They are asking for more trouble, in fact they might find they will lose much more of their own support than any Rangers support they receive during a season?

northgreen24
18-06-2012, 08:16 PM
I'm almost certain that we will be voting against them.

I'd be astonished and disgusted if we voted otherwise.

I agree I dont think RP could have made his feelings more clear and I would also be disgusted if this happened. It would make no real sense as all you will do is offend your own fans and this will far out weigh a couple of old firm visits and take this year it was only one.

we have cut out cloth for years and pretty much fans have accepted but no one would accept a yes vote

Saorsa
18-06-2012, 08:17 PM
What if Hearts vote 'yes'?I've been boycotting that dump for over 20 years so it'll make nae difference tae me.

Pretty Boy
18-06-2012, 08:20 PM
I've got a feeling that we will vote to keep them too.

Purely for financial reasons.

I'll be astonished if they don't get voted in.

If Hibs vote Rangers newco back in they will be getting my season ticket sent back with a note saying I'll never be back.

Thankfully I don't think that will happen.

Littlest Hobo
18-06-2012, 08:20 PM
I'm almost certain that we will be voting against them.

I'd be astonished and disgusted if we voted otherwise.

I really hope your right, or it'll be a wee jaunt down south and to the continent next season for me to watch football.

3pm
18-06-2012, 08:30 PM
I've been boycotting that dump for over 20 years so it'll make nae difference tae me.

Understood.

However, I struggle to imagine us never supporting our own in a derby.

3pm
18-06-2012, 08:32 PM
....and DD. Not you specifically, I mean collectively.

leggeto
18-06-2012, 08:32 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2009/10/16/walter-smith-scottish-football-will-die-if-old-firm-are-denied-move-elsewhere-86908-21751069/

what an arse hole walter smith is eh,cant they just takeover some wee club in england and we will see how long they last down there

Jim44
18-06-2012, 08:34 PM
I understand a lot of people will. However, I enjoy a trip to Motherwell for the football and won't deny myself it on the chance that Rangers might be in the league.

When Rangers are back as strong as ever in the SPL next season this is the sort of attitude which, despite all the guff about boycotting clubs that vote for Rangers, will completely vindicate them in the eye of the Rangers support. I'm not having a go at you personally, Steve20, as I believe you will have plenty of company at the end of the day. I've said all along and I still firmly believe that Rangers will be back in the SPL with minimal and meaninless sanctions. I just hope the same folk who meekly drift back don't keep moaning about Rangers. I think nearly all club chairmen will gamble on this eventuality. Despite losing a few of the battles they will have won the war. Rangers are dead, long live Rangers............... Yuck. :rolleyes:

woodyloon
18-06-2012, 08:34 PM
I'm sure I seen that one of the options is to demote the Newco to the 1st Division in the hope that they will get promoted straight back to the SPL.

Also what happens if the clubs vote to keep the newco in the SPL and they end up bottom of the league as all there decent players leave and the replacement are not good enough, will the others club then be asked to vote on the newco not getting relegated.

Saorsa
18-06-2012, 08:45 PM
I'm sure I seen that one of the options is to demote the Newco to the 1st Division in the hope that they will get promoted straight back to the SPL.

Also what happens if the clubs vote to keep the newco in the SPL and they end up bottom of the league as all there decent players leave and the replacement are not good enough, will the others club then be asked to vote on the newco not getting relegated.Unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. If they get in anywhere bar the bottom then it's :bye: from me.

Nae compromises and nae fudges

Planet Hibs
18-06-2012, 08:50 PM
I've been onto most fans forums and all are saying punt the cheats and let them come back the correct way through the leagues. All chairmen are saying they will take fans views into account so basically listening to the absolute minority ! I'm honestly done with spl if they come back in immediately

Gatecrasher
18-06-2012, 08:50 PM
Ross County fans against them, many of the views similar to here

http://www.overthebridge.info/showthread.php?tid=514

CMac1988
18-06-2012, 09:03 PM
A quick perusal of the Motherwell forums show they're absolutely livid about this and will take the decision to walk away.

Could be a very quiet SPL next year if Rangers get the sufficient number of votes.

:agree:

So it seems that the are leaning towards a 'yes' vote? Poor show considering the fans are against it... Although admittedly these are only the thoughts of users on their unofficial messageboards.

http://www.steelmenonline.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=12715&st=640

joe breezy
18-06-2012, 09:04 PM
Ross County fans against them, many of the views similar to here

http://www.overthebridge.info/showthread.php?tid=514

No fans want them

Motherwell fans don't want them, Killie fans don't want them....

JohnStephens91
18-06-2012, 09:41 PM
This is a joke.

Hibs fans don't want them at all.

Motherwell fans don't want them in.

Killie fans want them punted too.

Hearts fans want to see them booted down to the bottom rung.

I could go on for all 11 clubs. If they are so serious about listening to their fans then they should surely see the harmful affect it will have on their own attendances. The money they will lose from their home fans turning away from the game on top of the money lost from Celtic's traveling support and other clubs smaller traveling support will be catastrophic for them.

In the long run voting the Newco right into the top league would be devastating on a huge scale for every single club in the SPL.

theonlywayisup
18-06-2012, 09:42 PM
..... all in a pretty line, wrapped up in bumph and dubious figures.

http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2012/06/18/club-statement-–-spl-and-‘newco’/

Any other clubs put up similarly mealy mouthed releases yet?

I assume the results of the vote will be made public?

GGTTH :flag:

:rolleyes: not a surprise really! I usually enjoyed the Well trip. Not been recently but enjoyed the 1-6 game and the 2-2 Konte game. I won't be back if they vote YES!

Pete
18-06-2012, 09:48 PM
When Rangers are back as strong as ever in the SPL next season this is the sort of attitude which, despite all the guff about boycotting clubs that vote for Rangers, will completely vindicate them in the eye of the Rangers support. I'm not having a go at you personally, Steve20, as I believe you will have plenty of company at the end of the day. I've said all along and I still firmly believe that Rangers will be back in the SPL with minimal and meaninless sanctions. I just hope the same folk who meekly drift back don't keep moaning about Rangers. I think nearly all club chairmen will gamble on this eventuality. Despite losing a few of the battles they will have won the war. Rangers are dead, long live Rangers............... Yuck. :rolleyes:

Very well put.

Lungo--Drom
18-06-2012, 10:04 PM
I'm not surprised to be honest. Their casuals were called 'The SS'. Huns without the bus fare.


Same here. Hope they enjoy the Hun pound.

Booked4Being-Ugly
18-06-2012, 10:10 PM
The irony is that the only club that will benefit from allowing newhuns into the SPL is the Rangers themselves. They wont loose any players and they'll be debt free.

The rest of the clubs will be worse off, cutting each others throats with in-fighting and boycotts of each others grounds.

Can you imagine, after being voted back in, what it would feel like if the huns came to ER next season and beat us by 3 or 4 goals?!

iwasthere1972
18-06-2012, 10:14 PM
..... all in a pretty line, wrapped up in bumph and dubious figures.

http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2012/06/18/club-statement-%E2%80%93-spl-and-%E2%80%98newco%E2%80%99/

Any other clubs put up similarly mealy mouthed releases yet?

I assume the results of the vote will be made public?

GGTTH :flag:

Maybe they'll offer them their Champions League place as a welcoming gift.

IWasThere2016
18-06-2012, 10:21 PM
I am sure I read the vote would not be revealed for fears of retribution. I am starting to think the Chairmen will want a compromise with Rangers which avoids a vote altogether.


Such as?

A swap with Dundee as TRFC get relegated one division.


If ever there was a case of being "in the public interest", the transparency of the SPL vote is it. This is not about people dying or being victimised, it is about people making an informed decision on how to spend their money and Saturday afternoons. We have an absolute right to know if this league is corrupt and totally without sporting integrity.

Maybe Leveson will be looking for new job to get his teeth into shortly ?

I think some SPL Chairmen will want a secret vote.

DH1875
18-06-2012, 10:36 PM
Don't know why anyone is surprised. Motherwell were/are always going to vote them back in. The mumblings coming from St.Mirren suggest they are going to vote them in. ICT, Killie, StJ and Ross County will all vote them in. Us, Celtic, Dundee Utd and Aberdeen will vote them out which leaves the Yams. No idea how mad vlad will vote. Lets just hope it's the right way.

stubru59
18-06-2012, 10:42 PM
Notice they argue that the issue is complex, etc. Reminds me of that old quote about it being difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

Dashing Bob S
18-06-2012, 10:44 PM
Its the old story: a twice-yearly visit from these bigots means more to them than the continuing support and goodwill of their own fans. With narrow-sighted stewardship like that, this club (but not its fans) deserve oblivion.

DiscoLovinHibee
18-06-2012, 10:57 PM
My fear is that while it is Motherwell putting this out at the moment they are only putting into print what every other club chairman wants to put out.

I will not be surprised in the slightest if the vote comes back 12-0 in favour of allowing The Rangers to play in the SPL next season. It is how they will justify themselves to their fans that it would have been pointless to vote against it anyway and they will be making an assumption that once the initial anger dies down normality will resume as the build up to the season starts.

Such an event is going to be catastrophic for the game here. I personally have been a Hibs season ticket holder for 18 of the past 20 years (time off being for work), as it stands I have not renewed and if The Rangers are in the SPL next season (whether Hibs say no or not) I will not buy a season ticket for a league that is corrupt.

I also never plan on setting foot in the ground of any club who vote Rangers back into the SPL (it could be 10-2 with only The Rangers and Motherwell voting in favour and that will mean I will never go to Fir Park or give Motherwell a single penny ever again).

The best case scenario would be an 11-0 vote denying The Rangers entry to the SPL (The Rangers should come out now and say they will not be voting as it is not appropriate for them to do so). If that is the case then I will see all clubs as proving they actually want to fix this situation and also should The Rangers make their way back up in 3 years as expected then I would consider their punishment served and the matter closed.

Hongkong Phooey
19-06-2012, 12:17 AM
Would Hibs be allowed to screen away matches in BTG? I think a lot of fans would hapilly go and watch the cabbage play in the 'Yes apologists' grounds from there and make a statement at the same time.

ac1
19-06-2012, 02:03 AM
Said it before and saying it again - total boycott from everyone if they are voted back in!

Only problem is people have already got season tickets and I can understand them attending as they are not throwing there cash away -
everyone else should boycott and the people who have already paid there cash should make there feelings clear at the game.

Attendances have been declining for years and this will be the final nail in the coffin

TrickyNicky
19-06-2012, 02:34 AM
Would Hibs be allowed to screen away matches in BTG? I think a lot of fans would hapilly go and watch the cabbage play in the 'Yes apologists' grounds from there and make a statement at the same time.

Maybe this is something the club will consider ( as long as Rod stays true to his word ).

It could be a good way to make some extra cash ( as long as Rod stays true to form ).:greengrin

Sunny1875
19-06-2012, 05:03 AM
we should all stay away from any ground that votes yes


With a yes vote, ALL football fans in Scotland's SPL, whoever is playing should choose a week not to attend at any SPL ground, regardless of the votes cast by that club, this should be followed by a continued boycotting of clubs that voted SEVCO into the SPL. The week of non attendance could be coupled with fans attending their nearest SFL game that week, Imagine the impact on clubs and media if clubs who play to crowds of under 1K where running out to crowds of 6 -8K on a week or more when SPL grounds were empty. Personally I feel this would get the message over in a much more demonstrative way while we still get a football fix and the smaller clubs would benefit too.

sven nil
19-06-2012, 05:10 AM
that statement from Motherwell is just to see what reaction they receive,All the other chairmen will then monitor the response from fans forums then they feed us another story.So between now and 04/ 07/ 2012 expect to see other clubs making statements to try soften us up,Once they have us they ram us with the old tv revenues or Newco or Scotlands shame no visiting your ground twice a season crap.

time to waken up folks! THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY.

Sunny1875
19-06-2012, 05:50 AM
Said it before and saying it again - total boycott from everyone if they are voted back in!

Only problem is people have already got season tickets and I can understand them attending as they are not throwing there cash away -
everyone else should boycott and the people who have already paid there cash should make there feelings clear at the game.

Attendances have been declining for years and this will be the final nail in the coffin


As I said in previous post selected weeks for total boycott, with SFL matches attended instead,

I have been a HIBS FAN for 40 years I occasionally thought we had been cheated out of points and games in the past but still attended, As a youngster I believed we could one day win the league, As i got older and saw the gap widen between the O/F and others that hope faded. I realised that it was money that decided where the titles would end up. I was dismayed when anyone (from my club and others) who could prove to be an impediment to this generally wound up in blue or hoops. could Rangers Afford Kenny Miller? Kevin Thompson ? Steven Whittaker ? or for that matter Kris Boyd, Nacho Novo, Steven Naismith or Kirk Broadfoot there is no doubting that these players would have left the clubs they played for in time. But would it have been at the time they did and would they have gone on to strengthen a team in direct competition. Had all clubs acting with integrity i wonder.
I would find it difficult as many of you reading this would find it difficult to turn my back on HIBS, But knowing now that WE WERE CHEATED and that cheating is condoned by allowing clubs who Cheated to avoid the proper sanctions, a league where financial issues prevail over sporting integrity, will no longer be a league i wish to watch

joe breezy
19-06-2012, 06:20 AM
A Celtic fan saying that fans of individual clubs should focus on their own club only...

@Barcabhoy1: Why all fans should only try and influence their own club. http://t.co/5K8KjmFa

Scooter
19-06-2012, 06:43 AM
Does anyone seriously think we will find out what clubs votes for what. No chance it will all be kept hush

Scooter
19-06-2012, 06:54 AM
Nice wee quote

@philoquotes: Nothing is to be preferred before justice. ~ Socrates

steakbake
19-06-2012, 07:38 AM
A Celtic fan saying that fans of individual clubs should focus on their own club only...

@Barcabhoy1: Why all fans should only try and influence their own club. http://t.co/5K8KjmFa

I think he's right. Motherwell should be thinking about the potential collapse in revenue caused by their own fans realising they play in a rigged league.

I think Scottish Football underestimates the situation here. They stand to lose far more if TRFC get back in to the SPL. They can enjoy the occasionally full away stand and have their pick of seats in the empty home end.

frazeHFC
19-06-2012, 07:48 AM
I hate Motherwell, horrible football club, and horrible fans.

Hibrandenburg
19-06-2012, 08:14 AM
As I said in previous post selected weeks for total boycott, with SFL matches attended instead,

I have been a HIBS FAN for 40 years I occasionally thought we had been cheated out of points and games in the past but still attended, As a youngster I believed we could one day win the league, As i got older and saw the gap widen between the O/F and others that hope faded. I realised that it was money that decided where the titles would end up. I was dismayed when anyone (from my club and others) who could prove to be an impediment to this generally wound up in blue or hoops. could Rangers Afford Kenny Miller? Kevin Thompson ? Steven Whittaker ? or for that matter Kris Boyd, Nacho Novo, Steven Naismith or Kirk Broadfoot there is no doubting that these players would have left the clubs they played for in time. But would it have been at the time they did and would they have gone on to strengthen a team in direct competition. Had all clubs acting with integrity i wonder.
I would find it difficult as many of you reading this would find it difficult to turn my back on HIBS, But knowing now that WE WERE CHEATED and that cheating is condoned by allowing clubs who Cheated to avoid the proper sanctions, a league where financial issues prevail over sporting integrity, will no longer be a league i wish to watch


:top marks:

Pretty Boy
19-06-2012, 08:22 AM
As I said in previous post selected weeks for total boycott, with SFL matches attended instead,

I have been a HIBS FAN for 40 years I occasionally thought we had been cheated out of points and games in the past but still attended, As a youngster I believed we could one day win the league, As i got older and saw the gap widen between the O/F and others that hope faded. I realised that it was money that decided where the titles would end up. I was dismayed when anyone (from my club and others) who could prove to be an impediment to this generally wound up in blue or hoops. could Rangers Afford Kenny Miller? Kevin Thompson ? Steven Whittaker ? or for that matter Kris Boyd, Nacho Novo, Steven Naismith or Kirk Broadfoot there is no doubting that these players would have left the clubs they played for in time. But would it have been at the time they did and would they have gone on to strengthen a team in direct competition. Had all clubs acting with integrity i wonder.
I would find it difficult as many of you reading this would find it difficult to turn my back on HIBS, But knowing now that WE WERE CHEATED and that cheating is condoned by allowing clubs who Cheated to avoid the proper sanctions, a league where financial issues prevail over sporting integrity, will no longer be a league i wish to watch

Excellent post.

Brooster
19-06-2012, 08:35 AM
I've got a feeling that we will vote to keep them too.

Purely for financial reasons.

I'll be astonished if they don't get voted in.

No chance will Hibs vote to keep them in, no way. Hibs will defo vote no.

Swindonfan
19-06-2012, 08:49 AM
Many years back my team Swindon won promotion to the top flight in england only to be relegated 2 divisions the following week for irregular payments to players. We on appeal were just put back where we had started. Our under the counter payments totalled about £80,000.

Both Spurs and Chelsea were also found to have been doing things they shouldnt to biggers sums that ours but were slapped on the wrist with a fine. Something they could both pay easily anyway.

IF the club in the SPL in question was st mirren or st johnstone or motherwell i think in fact im sure they would have been relegated by the SPL already. There would have been no debate, no vote. And even the so called mighty huns ( yeah right ), would have cast any smaller club aside. Said you did wrong so you pay the price.

Rangers should be kicked out the SPL. EVERYONE knows this. Rangers fans know this. Every chairman who will vote knows this. Its a total farce. The only reason Rangers are being held onto is the financial state of scottish football as a whole.

If Porstmouth had gone bust and there was a club missing in the english league and the Newco Rangers were offered it they would snap it up. They wouldnt think twice about the SPL. If newco rangers were offered a place in Div 2 in england they would jump at it. They have no loyalty to the SPL so why should the rest of the SPL have any for them.

Saorsa
19-06-2012, 08:54 AM
As I said in previous post selected weeks for total boycott, with SFL matches attended instead,

I have been a HIBS FAN for 40 years I occasionally thought we had been cheated out of points and games in the past but still attended, As a youngster I believed we could one day win the league, As i got older and saw the gap widen between the O/F and others that hope faded. I realised that it was money that decided where the titles would end up. I was dismayed when anyone (from my club and others) who could prove to be an impediment to this generally wound up in blue or hoops. could Rangers Afford Kenny Miller? Kevin Thompson ? Steven Whittaker ? or for that matter Kris Boyd, Nacho Novo, Steven Naismith or Kirk Broadfoot there is no doubting that these players would have left the clubs they played for in time. But would it have been at the time they did and would they have gone on to strengthen a team in direct competition. Had all clubs acting with integrity i wonder.
I would find it difficult as many of you reading this would find it difficult to turn my back on HIBS, But knowing now that WE WERE CHEATED and that cheating is condoned by allowing clubs who Cheated to avoid the proper sanctions, a league where financial issues prevail over sporting integrity, will no longer be a league i wish to watch:top marks particularly that bit :agree:

jdships
19-06-2012, 09:09 AM
As I said in previous post selected weeks for total boycott, with SFL matches attended instead,

I have been a HIBS FAN for 40 years I occasionally thought we had been cheated out of points and games in the past but still attended, As a youngster I believed we could one day win the league, As i got older and saw the gap widen between the O/F and others that hope faded. I realised that it was money that decided where the titles would end up. I was dismayed when anyone (from my club and others) who could prove to be an impediment to this generally wound up in blue or hoops. could Rangers Afford Kenny Miller? Kevin Thompson ? Steven Whittaker ? or for that matter Kris Boyd, Nacho Novo, Steven Naismith or Kirk Broadfoot there is no doubting that these players would have left the clubs they played for in time. But would it have been at the time they did and would they have gone on to strengthen a team in direct competition. Had all clubs acting with integrity i wonder.
I would find it difficult as many of you reading this would find it difficult to turn my back on HIBS, But knowing now that WE WERE CHEATED and that cheating is condoned by allowing clubs who Cheated to avoid the proper sanctions, a league where financial issues prevail over sporting integrity, will no longer be a league i wish to watch

:top marks
A YES is rubber stamping a " Cheats Charter" , nothing more nothing less !
Regardless who they are or what they are any club that goes down the road of RFC has to accept some form of punishment .
If the vote is YES I will be on Leith Links , at Spartans , on Inverleith or watching rugby from August on .

:agree:

Bill Milne
19-06-2012, 09:35 AM
What if Hearts vote 'yes'?

I've said this before. Any club other than Hibs that votes yes will not see any of my dosh. Still undeciced on our own team, which is why it is essential that the vote is transparent!!

Paisley Hibby
19-06-2012, 11:51 AM
Since for the Board of Motherwell FC it´s clearly all about money and nothing else, somebody should ask them how much they want for their place in the Champions League. Lets face it, that could raise them a few bob.

Paisley Hibby
19-06-2012, 11:54 AM
No chance will Hibs vote to keep them in, no way. Hibs will defo vote no.

I agree - but I think we may be the only one. Get ready for a boycott of our games by the Team 12 loyal. Mind you, that would be a good thing. Easter Road as a Hun Free zone.

Jim44
19-06-2012, 11:59 AM
Does anyone seriously think we will find out what clubs votes for what. No chance it will all be kept hush

It would appear that most fans of most clubs want a 'no' vote from their chairmen. Every club will surely be morally obliged to tell it's supporters how they voted. A refusal to do so will lead to the assumption that they voted 'yes'. There is no way that anonimity will prevail.

Viva_Palmeiras
19-06-2012, 12:09 PM
Nice wee quote

@philoquotes: Nothing is to be preferred before justice. ~ Socrates

"Mas eu faz excepticao para cigarro" he then added (but I do make exceptions for fags)

ahibby
19-06-2012, 12:13 PM
I won't be going to Motherwell then and this will be the first season missed in a long time. They might get Rangers money but lets hope they lose all income from Hibs, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd et al.

Cocohibby
19-06-2012, 01:21 PM
I can't think of one other thing, other than perhaps the National Team (in the good old days), uniting fans of different clubs more than this. It's astonishing that SFA, SPL and our own clubs have not pre-empted the vote and just said "F*** it we're not going to let these cheating shysters into our league, we're better than that".The fact that we're STILL waiting speaks volumes for the quality of the people we have in charge of our national sport.

Rangers newco was only formed last week....:confused:

Hermit Crab
19-06-2012, 01:35 PM
we should all stay away from any ground that votes yes

I agree any team that votes yes should be boycotted, but I can't see that catching on I'm afraid.

H18sry
19-06-2012, 01:41 PM
I agree any team that votes yes should be boycotted, but I can't see that catching on I'm afraid.

Will you boycott them?

Hibiza
19-06-2012, 03:30 PM
No surprise.... hands across the water . or the M74.

NORTHERNHIBBY
19-06-2012, 03:42 PM
If Motherwell fans turned out in decent numbers then their club might not have needed to make such a public declaration. Even without the European money, which won't have been budgeted for, they are having to trim costs for next year. Outwith the Old Filth, I wonder if they would not actually come out more or less break even, if they shut the away end to save on costs.

Beefster
19-06-2012, 03:43 PM
Would Hibs be allowed to screen away matches in BTG? I think a lot of fans would hapilly go and watch the cabbage play in the 'Yes apologists' grounds from there and make a statement at the same time.

Hibs would have to pay the home club so that they could screen our away games presumably. If there's going to be a boycott, it has to be total.

kaimendhibs
19-06-2012, 03:54 PM
I won't be back either.

Me neither and same goes for any club who votes for them to stay in spl

Hongkong Phooey
19-06-2012, 04:16 PM
Hibs would have to pay the home club so that they could screen our away games presumably. If there's going to be a boycott, it has to be total.

I hear what you're saying, but we need to change behaviour here, or at least scare chairmen into thinking this is possible. A total boycot will wane (sp?) after a while, whereas this could change the whole culture of footie attending - "there are certain grounds we don't go to" kinda thing. Wishful thinking maybe but I think realistic enough to scare voters into doing the right thing.

Also think a concerted effort/statement from 'definate no' teams fans (Sellick, us, Aberdeen, others?) That we will boycot away games would make them think too..

rcarter1
19-06-2012, 05:42 PM
It appears that most non-Rangers fans would prefer to see them in the third division (or worse). As for Rangers fans, the ones i have spoken to are actually in favour of cleaning the slate and starting in the third as well. What are other peoples experiences with Rangers fans?

I was also told that Hibs could lose about £30,000 TV money from Rangers being voted out (seems pretty low). If true are the St Mirrens and Motherwells really that hard up that they can't soak that up? Finally, how convinced are people that Celtic will vote to send Rangers to the third division?

Finally the liquidators have been very quiet so far. My understanding is that they can cancel the Green deal, and take the assets back to auction.

Phil D. Rolls
19-06-2012, 07:35 PM
Seriously guys, is ANYONE really surprised about this, given the backgrounds and ties between Rangers and the town of Motherwell?

What do you mean?

monktonharp
20-06-2012, 01:45 AM
In short they have to work out what decision of the two will least effect them financially.

It's not about that, it's about doing what's right. FFS!!

Self interest is all that the clubs are interested in, does my ****in nut in.

I'm seriously thinking about walking away from Scottish fitba, what a bunch of shysters!you have virtually summed it up for me! I have yet to read the other posts on this thread, but after reading the guff from MFC, I find myself disgusted. so much so, that I have emailed them regarding the possible or inprobable attendence of our branch, to any matches at fir park this forthcoming season. I suppose that I've taken an unconstitutional descision to do that, and my descision can be recinded at any time as we have not discussed it as a branch, but I'm sure that I speak for the majority in that, we will not be attending FIR PARK, if they vote for newco.

monktonharp
20-06-2012, 01:50 AM
..... all in a pretty line, wrapped up in bumph and dubious figures.

http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2012/06/18/club-statement-%E2%80%93-spl-and-%E2%80%98newco%E2%80%99/

Any other clubs put up similarly mealy mouthed releases yet?

I assume the results of the vote will be made public?

GGTTH :flag: I must correct you Mr Lyon, NEWCO ARE NOT BEING VOTED "BACK IN". they just want "in". :greengrin

monktonharp
20-06-2012, 01:52 AM
What do you mean?I know what he means, and so do you

monktonharp
20-06-2012, 02:17 AM
I understand a lot of people will. However, I enjoy a trip to Motherwell for the football and won't deny myself it on the chance that Rangers might be in the league.that is entirely up to you, but be wary as you and the other dozen or so Hibbies will be on yer own!

monktonharp
20-06-2012, 02:47 AM
It appears that most non-Rangers fans would prefer to see them in the third division (or worse). As for Rangers fans, the ones i have spoken to are actually in favour of cleaning the slate and starting in the third as well. What are other peoples experiences with Rangers fans?

I was also told that Hibs could lose about £30,000 TV money from Rangers being voted out (seems pretty low). If true are the St Mirrens and Motherwells really that hard up that they can't soak that up? Finally, how convinced are people that Celtic will vote to send Rangers to the third division?

Finally the liquidators have been very quiet so far. My understanding is that they can cancel the Green deal, and take the assets back to auction.ok, for my answer to your first question: what are other peoples experiences with Rangers fans, and here are only a smattering of mine---called a fenian ******* at every opportunity when attending a match between hibs/rangers or rangers/hibs , then, only occasionally being gobbed in the puss by said rangers fans after being on your own outside the artisan bar in my own town(edinburgh) then being called a fenian *******, and , being in a train station near glasgow city centre, on my way to a game outwith glasgow and being called a fenian *******, and then being accused of being some other type (taig *******) because i'm not a rangers fan, during a discusion in a pub in broxburn, which leads me on to your next question; your st mirrens and your motherwells seem to know which side their bread is buttered oan, therefore they will want rangers, or the rangers football club retained as an spl club, thereby ensuring them with much needed gate money to the detriment of moral integrity.

as for your next question, you mention "finally" twice. do you mean that albut finally, shall celtic vote to deny them a place at the top table? I think they will . and really finally, how long can this saga go on? the liquidators/or administrators just canny go on and on can they! I cannae take much mair o' this. let's get der Hun back in, at least we know where we stand wi' them!!

monktonharp
20-06-2012, 03:00 AM
Said it before and saying it again - total boycott from everyone if they are voted back in!

Only problem is people have already got season tickets and I can understand them attending as they are not throwing there cash away -
everyone else should boycott and the people who have already paid there cash should make there feelings clear at the game.

Attendances have been declining for years and this will be the final nail in the coffin I can understand what you are saying,but as being someone who has renewed, and being a long term ST holder, I cannot attend matches on a point of principle if the rangers football club are admitted to the spl. big hit, money- wise but integrity is paramount. I was on strike for a year in 84/85 and me and my family survived that. and can surely survive the loss of a season ticket.sometimes you have to give things up, to retain a sense of pride in yourself.

AustinHibee
20-06-2012, 08:03 AM
I can understand what you are saying,but as being someone who has renewed, and being a long term ST holder, I cannot attend matches on a point of principle if the rangers football club are admitted to the spl. big hit, money- wise but integrity is paramount. I was on strike for a year in 84/85 and me and my family survived that. and can surely survive the loss of a season ticket.sometimes you have to give things up, to retain a sense of pride in yourself.
Well said sir.

rcarter1
20-06-2012, 11:38 AM
Fair dues, there are many horrible rangers fans, I seem to work with some half decent versions. If we could start banning antisocial people from Ibrox they might think about their actions?:agree:

Im relieved if Celtic are likely to vote no. Surely After Hibs, Celtic and probably Aberdeen, we can get two more teams. Im just Imagining Vlad making his casting vote now....

let's get der Hun back in, at least we know where we stand wi' them!![/QUOTE] You cannot be serious!!

edinburghhibee
20-06-2012, 01:07 PM
My view on this is that regardless of what comes out in the papers, until the vote is done and we have "club 12" replaced with "The Rangers" I will continue to have faith in Rod petrie and Hibernian. Rod has come out on numerous occasions and stated that sporting integrity will come before financial gain. That's good enough for me at the moment. I have a season ticket for next year and like last I will attend the games and most of the away fixtures to support the boys however should Hibs go back on their word and vote for this pond life to be admitted into the league they will have my season ticket through their door the next day and I will spend my money on the continent. Hopefully my faith is repaid.

TRC
20-06-2012, 01:15 PM
is it not the old 11-1 rule voting system so it all depends on the question asked can a new co start in the spl, so if to vote no fine but should a rangers new co be deployed to div 3 2 votes no then the status quo is kept I have no doubts they will be playing in the spl next year,

Phil D. Rolls
20-06-2012, 01:16 PM
I know what he means, and so do you

Yeah, but I genuinely don't know how true it is. Seems to me that Motherwell is pretty divided as a town, and I have never thought of Motherwell FC, or their supporters as being more one way than the other.

Hibiza
20-06-2012, 02:33 PM
cousins

Sylar
20-06-2012, 03:11 PM
ok, for my answer to your first question: what are other peoples experiences with Rangers fans, and here are only a smattering of mine---called a fenian ******* at every opportunity when attending a match between hibs/rangers or rangers/hibs , then, only occasionally being gobbed in the puss by said rangers fans after being on your own outside the artisan bar in my own town(edinburgh) then being called a fenian *******, and , being in a train station near glasgow city centre, on my way to a game outwith glasgow and being called a fenian *******, and then being accused of being some other type (taig *******) because i'm not a rangers fan, during a discusion in a pub in broxburn, which leads me on to your next question; your st mirrens and your motherwells seem to know which side their bread is buttered oan, therefore they will want rangers, or the rangers football club retained as an spl club, thereby ensuring them with much needed gate money to the detriment of moral integrity.

as for your next question, you mention "finally" twice. do you mean that albut finally, shall celtic vote to deny them a place at the top table? I think they will . and really finally, how long can this saga go on? the liquidators/or administrators just canny go on and on can they! I cannae take much mair o' this. let's get der Hun back in, at least we know where we stand wi' them!!

I knew fine well what the quote poster meant with his first question, and so did you.

jgl07
20-06-2012, 03:18 PM
If hearts vote yes then I'll never again set foot in their ground. There will be no exceptions as far as I'm concerned.

Even a for League Cup Semi-final against St Johnstone?

p=sh
21-06-2012, 01:38 PM
An example for Hibs no?

‘Well Society to vote on Newco Rangers

Thursday, June 21, 2012

The board of Motherwell FC met yesterday to discuss the vote by SPL member clubs on the question of the admission of a successor club or ‘Newco’ Rangers FC into the SPL.

The current board of Motherwell FC are not the owners of the club but are the trustees of the majority shareholding as we transition towards a fan-ownership model through the successfully launched ‘Well Society.

We are very conscious of our duties as directors to protect the financial interests of our club. The decision making on ‘Newco’ is rendered extremely difficult by the complexity of the potential scenarios and the uncertainty around the likely financial implications of all of them.

We are increasingly of the view that the uncertainties around the financial implications are substantial and negative under all likely scenarios. This is a matter of extreme regret for our club given all the work being undertaken on a strategy to help us grow sustainably as a community and family based club owned and run by our fans.

At a time we should be enjoying the club’s success on the park and development off it, we face a grave threat to the viability of our sport and our club through no fault of our own.

It is our view that in the face of this we will be best placed if we live by the spirit of the model we are seeking to achieve. We believe it is mission critical that we both listen, and are seen to have listened, to the views of our members and shareholders on whom our club relies now and for the future. Under all scenarios we need to come together as a club to see this situation through.

We will therefore hold a ballot of adult ‘Well Society Members and the small number of existing minority shareholders who have yet to join the society, on a ‘one member/shareholder-one vote’ basis. The results of the ballot will be independently audited and will be used to determine which way the club votes on 4th July.

The results of the ballot will be independently audited and will be used to determine which way the club votes on 4th July.

Ownership in any business has to mean making decisions and then dealing with the outcome. The timing for administering a ballot is not ideal, given the constraints we face but we believe it can be achieved and underpins the way we want our club to be run. Given that Society members have already parted with their cash with the purpose of having a say in the future running of the club, we believe using this group is the most practical and sustainable way for us to proceed. The final date for votes cast will be Friday 29th June 2012. All existing members can vote. Anyone joining between now and the date of the ballot will be required to pay in full to secure a vote.

An impartial guidance document on the likely risks to club finances of each outcome will be supplied as part of the information Society members will receive in order to vote. This will be our assessment based on the information available to us at this time. In reality this analysis will never be perfect as it relies on estimates which change daily.

We look to all our members, shareholders and supporters to stand behind the club at such a pressured time for all. Motherwell fans have never been found wanting and we have to ask for their loyalty and support once again.

jgl07
21-06-2012, 03:00 PM
How many 'Well Society' members are there?

JeMeSouviens
21-06-2012, 03:34 PM
How many 'Well Society' members are there?

Around 1000 as of 31st March.

Hibs Class
21-06-2012, 04:27 PM
Around 1000 as of 31st March.

How many more might there be by 29 June, if they will accept new members?

scoopyboy
21-06-2012, 07:11 PM
An example for Hibs no?
‘Well Society to vote on Newco Rangers

Thursday, June 21, 2012

The board of Motherwell FC met yesterday to discuss the vote by SPL member clubs on the question of the admission of a successor club or ‘Newco’ Rangers FC into the SPL.

The current board of Motherwell FC are not the owners of the club but are the trustees of the majority shareholding as we transition towards a fan-ownership model through the successfully launched ‘Well Society.

We are very conscious of our duties as directors to protect the financial interests of our club. The decision making on ‘Newco’ is rendered extremely difficult by the complexity of the potential scenarios and the uncertainty around the likely financial implications of all of them.

We are increasingly of the view that the uncertainties around the financial implications are substantial and negative under all likely scenarios. This is a matter of extreme regret for our club given all the work being undertaken on a strategy to help us grow sustainably as a community and family based club owned and run by our fans.

At a time we should be enjoying the club’s success on the park and development off it, we face a grave threat to the viability of our sport and our club through no fault of our own.

It is our view that in the face of this we will be best placed if we live by the spirit of the model we are seeking to achieve. We believe it is mission critical that we both listen, and are seen to have listened, to the views of our members and shareholders on whom our club relies now and for the future. Under all scenarios we need to come together as a club to see this situation through.

We will therefore hold a ballot of adult ‘Well Society Members and the small number of existing minority shareholders who have yet to join the society, on a ‘one member/shareholder-one vote’ basis. The results of the ballot will be independently audited and will be used to determine which way the club votes on 4th July.

The results of the ballot will be independently audited and will be used to determine which way the club votes on 4th July.

Ownership in any business has to mean making decisions and then dealing with the outcome. The timing for administering a ballot is not ideal, given the constraints we face but we believe it can be achieved and underpins the way we want our club to be run. Given that Society members have already parted with their cash with the purpose of having a say in the future running of the club, we believe using this group is the most practical and sustainable way for us to proceed. The final date for votes cast will be Friday 29th June 2012. All existing members can vote. Anyone joining between now and the date of the ballot will be required to pay in full to secure a vote.

An impartial guidance document on the likely risks to club finances of each outcome will be supplied as part of the information Society members will receive in order to vote. This will be our assessment based on the information available to us at this time. In reality this analysis will never be perfect as it relies on estimates which change daily.

We look to all our members, shareholders and supporters to stand behind the club at such a pressured time for all. Motherwell fans have never been found wanting and we have to ask for their loyalty and support once again.

Why?

Hibs know very well how the fans feel and they will vote accordingly.

jgl07
21-06-2012, 07:24 PM
Around 1000 as of 31st March.

That's OK then. There is no danger that they will vote Yes.

I feared that there might be a small number.

Part/Time Supporter
23-06-2012, 03:45 PM
Motherwell financial analysis (http://www.motherwell-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/motherwells_guidance_arrives_747849/index.shtml)

coco mc
23-06-2012, 04:16 PM
Motherwell financial analysis (http://www.motherwell-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/motherwells_guidance_arrives_747849/index.shtml)
Not sure if I read that correctly but I think they are saying the Euro spot will balance out the loss? But there unsure of sponsorship or TV deal

Spike Mandela
23-06-2012, 04:18 PM
Motherwell financial analysis (http://www.motherwell-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/motherwells_guidance_arrives_747849/index.shtml)

No mention of sporting integrity in that statement:rolleyes: Effectively this is the equivelant of a judge instructing a jury how to vote. Motherwell YES to a newco. We won't forget.

Hibbyradge
23-06-2012, 04:27 PM
They fail to point out that the £1.56m from SPL distribution was due to their 3rd place finish.

They're not guaranteed to do so next season.

In addition, they haven't said that without Newco, they could finish 2nd and receive 13% of the SPL cash instead of the 9% for 3rd.

Jim44
23-06-2012, 04:32 PM
No mention of sporting integrity in that statement:rolleyes: Effectively this is the equivelant of a judge instructing a jury how to vote. Motherwell YES to a newco. We won't forget.

What was looking like a clear 'no' vote seems to be waning by the hour and I wouldn't be at all surprised if we end up with only 3 'no' votes. Welcome home, Rangers.:rolleyes:

truehibernian
23-06-2012, 05:02 PM
What was looking like a clear 'no' vote seems to be waning by the hour and I wouldn't be at all surprised if we end up with only 3 'no' votes. Welcome home, Rangers.:rolleyes:

Really - can't see many 'on the wane' Jim - Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and DUFC have stated their intention and will vote 'No' - so we only require another club to do so. Celtic will listen to their fans and have stated that they are not reliant on any other club than themselves.....so I expect them to vote 'No' too.


Steven Brown/Geoff Brown are men of integrity and I feel will vote with sporting integrity and real punishment in their minds. Caley have at least 3 derbies with Ross County which will be sell-outs (I think). Their (ICT) board are very fair minded having listened to them in the past about other issues. Butcher may want them but I don't think many of their board do. Remember the hassle they had to go through when doing things properly with Marius Niculae ? Then they see Rangers flaunting rules right, left and centre !!

What makes you so negative Jim - Rangers will not be in the SPL next season, I'm convinced of it.

jgl07
23-06-2012, 05:26 PM
Really - can't see many 'on the wane' Jim - Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and DUFC have stated their intention and will vote 'No' - so we only require another club to do so. Celtic will listen to their fans and have stated that they are not reliant on any other club than themselves.....so I expect them to vote 'No' too.

Steven Brown/Geoff Brown are men of integrity and I feel will vote with sporting integrity and real punishment in their minds. Caley have at least 3 derbies with Ross County which will be sell-outs (I think). Their (ICT) board are very fair minded having listened to them in the past about other issues. Butcher may want them but I don't think many of their board do. Remember the hassle they had to go through when doing things properly with Marius Niculae ? Then they see Rangers flaunting rules right, left and centre !!

What makes you so negative Jim - Rangers will not be in the SPL next season, I'm convinced of it.

The Herald reported today that Steve Brown had assured St Johnstone supporters at a private meeting that they intend to vote No to Rangers.

Jim44
23-06-2012, 05:37 PM
Really - can't see many 'on the wane' Jim - Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and DUFC have stated their intention and will vote 'No' - so we only require another club to do so. Celtic will listen to their fans and have stated that they are not reliant on any other club than themselves.....so I expect them to vote 'No' too.


Steven Brown/Geoff Brown are men of integrity and I feel will vote with sporting integrity and real punishment in their minds. Caley have at least 3 derbies with Ross County which will be sell-outs (I think). Their (ICT) board are very fair minded having listened to them in the past about other issues. Butcher may want them but I don't think many of their board do. Remember the hassle they had to go through when doing things properly with Marius Niculae ? Then they see Rangers flaunting rules right, left and centre !!

What makes you so negative Jim - Rangers will not be in the SPL next season, I'm convinced of it.

The only likely 3 definites are Hibs, Hearts and Dunfermline. Milne has made 'wavering' noises in the last 24 hours, I don't share the belief that Lawwell will necessarily listen to his supporters and I think the rest could be persuaded to go with the ones who want Rangers. If I was forced to put money on it, of-course I would back a 'no' vote but I don't think it's anywhere near certain.

jgl07
23-06-2012, 05:39 PM
The only likely 3 definites are Hibs, Hearts and Dunfermline. Milne has made 'wavering' noises in the last 24 hours, I don't share the belief that Lawwell will necessarily listen to his supporters and I think the rest could be persuaded to go with the ones who want Rangers. If I was forced to put money on it, of-course I would back a 'no' vote but I don't think it's anywhere near certain.

Please pay attention!

Caversham Green
23-06-2012, 05:47 PM
Does anyone else think that Motherwell's statements have been an absolute mess? They're long-winded, give links and figures that are either spurious, irrelevant or both and give neither a balanced view nor a clear conclusion. I don't read this one as a direction to vote yes, but TBH I got bored half way through - and that's coming from an accountant.

I guess it's a product of their state of transition, but I feel the important parts of what they're trying to say could have been condensed into two or three paragraphs.

Jim44
23-06-2012, 05:52 PM
Please pay attention!

Oops, you know I meant D. Utd. I'm getting on in years you know and this is getting all too much for me,:greengrin

snooky
23-06-2012, 06:06 PM
I really despair at some folk, how on earth can these chairmen vote yes, when they know they will be alienating their own support.

They are asking for more trouble, in fact they might find they will lose much more of their own support than any Rangers support they receive during a season?


Which ever way the clubs vote it's a lose/lose situation.
The choice is this ...

Loss 1 - 50% (say) home fans and integrity
Loss 2 - Rangers 2 visits per season

It's up to you Mr Chairmen.

IWasThere2016
24-06-2012, 05:17 AM
It will be a comfortable NO vote IMHO

Part/Time Supporter
24-06-2012, 05:36 AM
Motherwell's analysis raises one question in my mind: how would they cope if they finished in the bottom six? That isn't an outlandish suggestion, as their payroll is normally mid-table and they've finished in the bottom half before (but were presumably funded by John Boyle in that scenario). They've cut payroll by £250,000 this summer despite qualifying for Europe, as they made a loss of £500,000 last year and need to plug the gap without outside funding.

Let's say Rangers had never gone into administration and things were continuing as normal next season. If Motherwell finished in the bottom six, they would lose one of the OF visits. That would be a loss of nearly £140,000, based on their own figures. They finished 3rd in the league last year and received over £1.5M (9% of the pool) in prize money. If they finished (say) 7th next year, that would be cut by just over £400,000. That gives an overall loss compared to last year of £550,000, which is well over half of what they're projecting to lose without Rangers.

Either they need to sell a player (few obvious targets in their squad, as it's mostly experienced pros) or they should be cutting payroll quite a bit more than they are. It's not a ridiculous suggestion that Motherwell could finish 7th, that's more like their recent historical average than finishing 3rd. If they're risking administration without Rangers as the headlines suggest, they're also risking administration by operating too much in costs relative to their likely income.

GloryGlory
24-06-2012, 08:46 AM
Motherwell's analysis raises one question in my mind: how would they cope if they finished in the bottom six? That isn't an outlandish suggestion, as their payroll is normally mid-table and they've finished in the bottom half before (but were presumably funded by John Boyle in that scenario). They've cut payroll by £250,000 this summer despite qualifying for Europe, as they made a loss of £500,000 last year and need to plug the gap without outside funding.

Let's say Rangers had never gone into administration and things were continuing as normal next season. If Motherwell finished in the bottom six, they would lose one of the OF visits. That would be a loss of nearly £140,000, based on their own figures. They finished 3rd in the league last year and received over £1.5M (9% of the pool) in prize money. If they finished (say) 7th next year, that would be cut by just over £400,000. That gives an overall loss compared to last year of £550,000, which is well over half of what they're projecting to lose without Rangers.

Either they need to sell a player (few obvious targets in their squad, as it's mostly experienced pros) or they should be cutting payroll quite a bit more than they are. It's not a ridiculous suggestion that Motherwell could finish 7th, that's more like their recent historical average than finishing 3rd. If they're risking administration without Rangers as the headlines suggest, they're also risking administration by operating too much in costs relative to their likely income.

It's hard to have much sympathy for a club that has fairly recently benefited from the clean slate of administration. Sounds like a badly managed club wants to be bailed out by an even more badly managed club.

Motherwell should look to cut their cloth - if they are cutting back on the budget, then they have gained their third place by overspending.

jgl07
24-06-2012, 09:09 PM
Motherwell's analysis raises one question in my mind: how would they cope if they finished in the bottom six? That isn't an outlandish suggestion, as their payroll is normally mid-table and they've finished in the bottom half before (but were presumably funded by John Boyle in that scenario). They've cut payroll by £250,000 this summer despite qualifying for Europe, as they made a loss of £500,000 last year and need to plug the gap without outside funding.

Let's say Rangers had never gone into administration and things were continuing as normal next season. If Motherwell finished in the bottom six, they would lose one of the OF visits. That would be a loss of nearly £140,000, based on their own figures. They finished 3rd in the league last year and received over £1.5M (9% of the pool) in prize money. If they finished (say) 7th next year, that would be cut by just over £400,000. That gives an overall loss compared to last year of £550,000, which is well over half of what they're projecting to lose without Rangers.


I think you may be misreading Motherwell's figures. You say that they lost £500,000 last season. Have Motherwells accounts for 2011-12 been published yet? Does the figure of £500,000 not relate to 2010-11 when Motherwell finished sixth?

Part/Time Supporter
25-06-2012, 05:42 AM
I think you may be misreading Motherwell's figures. You say that they lost £500,000 last season. Have Motherwells accounts for 2011-12 been published yet? Does the figure of £500,000 not relate to 2010-11 when Motherwell finished sixth?

No. They made a profit of £500,000 in 2010/11, mainly because they reached the cup final. Their board are estimating that they will have lost £500,000 in 2011/12.

Sylar
25-06-2012, 06:33 AM
If Motherwell both fail to learn from their first episode of administration and can't cut their cloth just now knowing they're going to lose x amount this season without Rangers in the SPL, then hell mend them.

Perhaps we're fortunate in the sense that a lot of our first team were both pish and out of contract this summer, so we can rebuild and budget accordingly. If a lot of their players are under lucrative and/or lengthy contract deals, they need to start trying to sell them on. Motherwell reached the Champions League last season and if they've put themselves into financial difficulties to get to that position, then they've no-one to blame but themselves. Not their fans, not Rangers, not the SPL - the board who overspent, having vowed to never get themselves into that position again.

This extends to all clubs out there who are evidently not running their club in a sustainable way. The Rangers fans are positively creaming themselves at seeing clubs go out of business without their presence in the league - if/when this starts happening, I can't say I'd have much sympathy for any of them.