How much would the huns going into the 3rd div cost Hibs?

[Ross4356]

My hun m8's have been banging on about how the SPL won't survive without then. I couldn't care about anyone else but I was wondering, how much a season will it cost Hibs not having then in the SPL?

I worked out at 28 quid a skull x 3,500 = £98,000 per game x2 is £196,000 plus what they spend on food

But then you have to take off whatever the amount of team in their place brings to ER twice a season

Plus the Clydesdale bank are definitely going to sponsor the SPL this season so that would only surly mean a max of 2yrs with a possible less valuable sponsorship deal

All guess work but just wondered what everyone else thought

[frazeHFC]

I don't care just now, willing to risk it.

[PatHead]

Nothing. It will cost Hibs a lot more through lack of attendances if Rangers get back in.

[down-the-slope]

I don't care just now, willing to risk it.

:agree:

Also all those Hibs fans who have said its all about sporting integrity...will be flocking to ER when Buns are in 3rd....

Won't you :rolleyes:

[lyonhibs]

My hun m8's have been banging on about how the SPL won't survive without then. I couldn't care about anyone else but I was wondering, how much a season will it cost Hibs not having then in the SPL?

I worked out at 28 quid a skull x 3,500 = £98,000 per game x2 is £196,000 plus what they spend on food

But then you have to take off whatever the amount of team in their place brings to ER twice a season

Plus the Clydesdale bank are definitely going to sponsor the SPL this season so that would only surly mean a max of 2yrs with a possible less valuable sponsorship deal

All guess work but just wondered what everyone else thought

There was a link posted to some interesting calculations done on another forum that stacked up, which basically meant that the Huns going kaput would cost the rest of the SPL rather less than the Huns - and certain prominent "characters" in the Scottish Sport media - would want you to believe.

Re: food, as far as I'm aware, Hibs sub-contract the provision of this service to "Rock 'ard Pies and Pricey Pizzas" PLC for an annual fee, so whether we sell 1 pie or 3500 pies to hungry Huns, it makes no difference to Hibs.

Out of interest, would Hibs policing costs go down, as obviously 500 Ross County fans (or whatever) or going to need a whole lot less in terms of bobbies to be paid than 3500 slavering, bevvied up Huns. I'm not certain of what the T+C's of Hibs contract with LBP is, or indeed whether we even have one??

[PatHead]

:agree:

Also all those Hibs fans who have said its all about sporting integrity...will be flocking to ER when Buns are in 3rd....

Won't you :rolleyes:

Yes, indeed I will buy a season ticket.

[down-the-slope]

Yes, indeed I will buy a season ticket.

1 down...anymore :aok:

[JeMeSouviens]

My hun m8's have been banging on about how the SPL won't survive without then. I couldn't care about anyone else but I was wondering, how much a season will it cost Hibs not having then in the SPL?

I worked out at 28 quid a skull x 3,500 = £98,000 per game x2 is £196,000 plus what they spend on food

But then you have to take off whatever the amount of team in their place brings to ER twice a season

Plus the Clydesdale bank are definitely going to sponsor the SPL this season so that would only surly mean a max of 2yrs with a possible less valuable sponsorship deal

All guess work but just wondered what everyone else thought

Plus you also have to take into account the fact that for a number of years, less home fans have been attending matches v Huns than matches v other teams. Hibs only get about 1500 more than our average attendance for matches v Huns.

You have to take into account how much less Sky will pay for the new tv deal.

You have to take into account how much greater a share of SPL prize money we'll get when the other 11 clubs force Celtic to change the distribution.

You have to take into account how many Hibs fans will walk away if we allow the New Huns in.

Much guessing to be done. I'd imagine some hit but not nearly as much as any Hun apologist will tell you and possibly a greater hit for allowing the New Huns in.

[SmashinGlass]

Nothing. It will cost Hibs a lot more through lack of attendances if Rangers get back in.

This. As I said on the other thread, the more pertinent question is: How much will we lose (and I don't just mean financially) if we allow them straight back in?

[Chuck Rhoades]

I'm trying to think dispassionately here and setting aside the rights and wrongs of the future of Rangers in or out of the SPL to concentrate purely on the effect on crowds. It has been claimed, usually by the Traynors, Chicos and 'Scoop' Jacksons of this world that the effect on crowds would be disastrous. Would they?

Have a look at these two sets of figures I have compiled from this season's attendances. The first one compares the average attendance against Rangers (bear in mind some teams have played them once and others twice) compared to the average with both OF stripped out. The figures are the amounts by which the crowd goes up when Rangers are in town. On the face of it it looks frightening if the Ibrox club are lost from the SPL.

Aberdeen + 6996
Kilmarnock + 4959
Motherwell + 4603
Dunfermline + 3396
Dundee United + 2983
St Johnstone + 2973
Inverness CT + 2960
St Mirren + 2550
Hearts + 1971
Hibernian + 1871

But now look at the second set of figures. These are the number of supporters that would be lost once the Rangers figures are spread over the season. Suddenly a Rangers-less future isn't as scary after all.

Aberdeen - 368
Kilmarnock - 261
Motherwell - 242
Dunfermline - 179
Dundee United - 157
St Johnstone - 156
Inverness CT - 156
St Mirren - 134
Hearts - 104
Hibernian - 98

Some observations: the basic scenario hasn't changed since I first ran this exercise a decade ago. Aberdeen lose the most in total but Kilmarnock and Motherwell lose most proportionately. This is down to a larger capacity in the first instance and ease of travel in the latter. Had St Mirren still been in possession of a bigger ground they would be in the same situation as Killie and 'Well. The comparatively low figures for the Edinburgh pair are based on their relatively high number of season ticket holders.

Now, while exercises such as this can't account for any loss of sponsorship, TV rights etc, they do show quite plainly that losing Rangers from the SPL would be far from the economic disaster many portray it as. Only one 'Gang of Ten' club needs to entice more than 300 fans through the gates on a regular basis to offset the loss from Rangers. Most clubs have lost more fans on average in the past few seasons than the numbers here and the doors have yet to be locked on any stadium. Additionally, visits from the OF bring costs not associated with other clubs in terms of police and stewarding, not to mention repair work on those odd occasions when the result is not to their pleasing.

Finally, there is one club that stands to lose more fans than any other. Celtic drop by 8,553 when comparing Rangers visits to other clubs and they would need 450 more per game to recover their losses. Again, they have lost far more than that in recent seasons.

The conclusion is that as far as attendances are concerned at any rate, the loss of Rangers to the SPL would be no great burden.

Thank you very much and welcome to the forum. If I could put it another way, these are the average crowds each club would need to get - not including Celtic or home matches against Celtic- to make up the Rangers deficit.

13302 Hearts
9607 Hibernian
8840 Aberdeen
6984 Dundee United
5217 Motherwell
4808 Kilmarnock
4304 Dunfermline
4295 St Mirren
3716 Inverness CT
3642 St Johnstone

These are far from unobtainable targets. In fact of the nine clubs in the ‘Gang of Ten’ that were in the SPL in 2010-11, four of them - Hearts, Hibs, Inverness, Killie - all exceeded those figures. Four more - Aberdeen, Dundee United, St Johnstone, St Mirren - exceeded them in 2009-10. Dunfermline exceeded them the last time they played in the SPL (2006-07) before this season. Motherwell did so last in 2007-08 (in Celtic’s case they would need to return to 2008-09 levels).

In other words five of the ten met or bettered the target last season before this one (counting 2006-07 as the Pars last SPL season), four did so two seasons ago and one four years ago. Drawing just those modest few hundred of their own supporters back to every match would wipe out any financial advantage brought through the turnstiles by Rangers.

An added bonus is that increased competition is likely to bring greater numbers of travelling fans. 178 accompanied Aberdeen to Rugby Park recently, a derisory number.

Of course the TOTAL numbers would drop. That’s down to our old friend, lies, damned lies and statistics. Rangers drew 880,000 to Ibrox this season. The best supported replacement - Dundee - wouldn’t draw more than 150,000 at the absolute maximum so there would be a big overall fall, perhaps as many as 750,000. But these would all be paying customers at Ibrox. No other club would lose a penny in gate money from this and, presumably, those supporters would still be attending matches in the Third Division.

I mean, they don’t do walking away.

**Note - this isn't my article.

[JimBHibees]

When you take into account the increased policing costs and possibly more walk up fans due to a likely Saturday 3pm kick off maybe not as much as you would think.

[IWasThere2016]

less than the mass exodus from the stands week in week out. Get them tae :bye:

[Aldo]

A half decent winning Hibs side will push our average crowd up and hence generate more money.

The rules are there.... They've broken them now get them tae....ENDOF

[big-mo]

On average 10% of Hibs season ticket holders do not attend O/F matches, (I think this was one of the reasons that the club were giving away free O/F tickets to season ticket holders). They do in general fill the away stand but we could only be playing them once at home if we were to finish in bottom six again. The Sky/ESPN deal may have to be renegotiated but if the SPL play hard-ball all team in the SPL would get a better split of the money rather than 50% going to the O/F. Sky pay more for their Rugby League coverage than the SPL deal but have a lot less than half the viewers. We would maybe also have more 3pm Saturday games. Crowd in general may go up if we had a more competitive league. So I don't think the cost of losing the gers would be as much as they are making out.

[fit o' the walk]

If(hopefully when) they get demoted was wondering if it would deter players moving to SPL,most players signing for an SPL team say they can't wait to play against the Old Firm. I assume there would be a loss of income to all clubs,just wondering what effect this will have on Pats signing targets........Thoughts??

[JeMeSouviens]

No difference. First and foremost it's about the £££.

[iwasthere1972]

The dross that we've signed recently would even see playing St Mirren or Dunfermline as a step up to what they are used to playing so not playing against Rangers wouldn't, in my honest opinion, matter one iota.

Anyway the attraction of coming to Hibs is not about playing the old firm. It's the stadium, training ground and George Street that brings them here.

[Togs91]

Heard a few smelltic fans complaining that they would loose key players such as hooper from lack of interest, but that could only be good mews for the rest :D

[GORDONSMITH7]

If(hopefully when) they get demoted was wondering if it would deter players moving to SPL,most players signing for an SPL team say they can't wait to play against the Old Firm. I assume there would be a loss of income to all clubs,just wondering what effect this will have on Pats signing targets........Thoughts??

Anyone Hibs or the majority of clubs in the SPL sign will be a step up for them. If you mean to Rangers.....yes.

Most players signing for an SPL team say they can't wait to play against the Old Firm. You made that up.

BIG G

[Barney McGrew]

I worked out at 28 quid a skull x 3,500 = £98,000 per game x2 is £196,000 plus what they spend on food

As someone has already pointed out, we don't get any of the money from food sales.

Take off the extra Police and Stewarding costs, add in the revenue from fans of the 'replacement team' (say a conservative 900 per game at £20 a head x 2 if it's Dunfermline or Dundee, to give you £35k back) plus the extra Hibs fans that will turn up to 3pm Saturday kick offs that don't include the OF (say 1500 at £18 a head average gives you another £54k back) then it's nowhere near as much as the Rangers apologists would have you think.

[Just Alf]

As the Rangers fans are claiming that they are going to boycott us if they're in the SPL next season it makes no real difference..... from a Rangers attendance point of view..... the key difference is that if Rangers ARE in the SPL then Hibs home support will take a dive (this same picture is replicated across almost all the other teams)... so in gate money we'll be worse off

There is the issue with sponsorship/TV cash but this would be mitigated if the SPL looked at how this is distributed in ANY other top league in the world and follow that model. (i.e once the cosys etc have been removed 30-40% goes to the top 2 at the moment with the rest having the remainder with a 0.5% step down for each placing)... I also read last night that SKY have stated the Rangers situation doesn't make a difference to them (can't find the link now so I remain to be convinced on that as yet)

[edinburghhibee]

I think Celtc will be effected, but nobody else IMHO.

[GORDONSMITH7]

I reckon that Hibs must have lost well over £1million over the past period with folk not renewing cause Hibs have been utter gash. The Gangsters not being fired out of the SPL will make that worse. Maybe a bit of investment by by Hibs getting a team that isnae relegation fodder would help of course.

BIG G

[Brebners Bookie]

Yes it would, lets be honest them being demoted would be bad for the spl in the short term with the loss of income/interest. It would hopefully allow a re-structuring of the system, but neither of these points are relevant, the fact is they cheated and have to be punished appropriately to maintain any integrity left in the game.

[marinello59]

I think Celtc will be effected, but nobody else IMHO.

I think we will all be affected. Look at players like Killen who saw us as a stepping stone to the Old Firm. The chance to play in front of 50 000 at Ibrox and Parkhead several times a season would also be part of any club trying to sell the SPL to a prospective signing. We can't pretend there will be no negatives without Rangers but that should not deter from the fact that they should not be playing SPL football next year.

[GORDONSMITH7]

Yes it would, lets be honest them being demoted would be bad for the spl in the short term with the loss of income/interest. It would hopefully allow a re-structuring of the system, but neither of these points are relevant, the fact is they cheated and have to be punished appropriately to maintain any integrity left in the game.

Well give that some substance amigo I personally dinae believe that.


BIG G

[Chuck Rhoades]

I reckon that Hibs must have lost well over £1million over the past period with folk not renewing cause Hibs have been utter gash. The Gangsters not being fired out of the SPL will make that worse. Maybe a bit of investment by by Hibs getting a team that isnae relegation fodder would help of course.

BIG G

What is this based on? I don't believe it will.

[GORDONSMITH7]

What is this based on? I don't believe it will.

The number of folk that have said to me that they will not renew their season tickets if these thieving *******s get away with this and go on williy nilly playing in the SLP, particularly if our Chairperson supports them in this.

BIG G

[Ross4356]

I thought it would hurt Celtic badly but a mate said if they get into the CL this year then the coefficient will go up and they will get direct entry next year at least

[Chuck Rhoades]

The number of folk that have said to me that they will not renew their season tickets if these thieving *******s get away with this and go on williy nilly playing in the SLP, particularly if our Chairperson supports them in this.

BIG G

Picked you up wrong G - apologies. I read it as you thought we would lose money if Rangers DO NOT get back into the SPL.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The Rangers away support are little short of effluent. I would like to think that the lack of the chance of contamination twice a season would encourage those fans back who worry about exposure to them.

[GORDONSMITH7]

The Rangers away support are little short of effluent. I would like to think that the lack of the chance of contamination twice a season would encourage those fans back who worry about exposure to them.

Spot on.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INa_1zrKVMc


BIG G

[Andy74]

At the most maybe a couple of squad players we'd (all) maybe have to live without.

Sounds fine to me, we generally have a number of them nowhere near the team anyway.

[GORDONSMITH7]

The Rangers away support are little short of effluent. I would like to think that the lack of the chance of contamination twice a season would encourage those fans back who worry about exposure to them.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZqjFd99CPg


BIG G

[Lungo--Drom]

Well I've already paid for my season ticket but if the Huns get booted out the SPL I will keep my season ticket and in the coming season including the already paid for aforementioned ST spend probably about:

£405 - ST
£142.50 - £7.50 x 19 ER attendances on the food stand
£57 - £3 x 19 ER attendances on match programmes
£40 - 12/13 replica top out the clubshop
£50 - estimate of how much I'll spend on other clubshop items over the season
------
£694.50

If the Huns get into the SPL with their NewHate FC team then I am currently thinking I will be almost as angry as they always are and post my ST back to Petrie.

HUNS OUT - INTEGRITY IN!

:flag:


1 down...anymore :aok:

[Lungo--Drom]

Now THAT IS music my friend! :thumbsup:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZqjFd99CPg


BIG G

[DH1875]

Half the league don't get 2 home games against Rangers though :confused:.
Only thing it will effect is the TV deal but I doubt it would have drastic effects because someone somewhere will pay something for it.

[jdships]

Half the league don't get 2 home games against Rangers though :confused:.
Only thing it will effect is the TV deal but I doubt it would have drastic effects because someone somewhere will pay something for it.

Well pointred out , I hadn't looked at it that way !!
' TV rights ' think you are about right with that take.
All in all don't really see the Huns being in Div 3 as being 'disasterousville ' !
I do not have a ST now as due to age /health can't guarantee every game attendance but as I have stated before if they are in SPL next year I will not be back and that goes for my four 'old' mates . We are as one on this !!
:rolleyes:

[Sir David Gray]

If Rangers are demoted to the 3rd division next season, we surely cannot be anywhere near as bad as we have been for the past couple of years when Rangers have been in the SPL!

[Albion Hibs]

As someone has said above we dont get two games against them a season as a result of our recent league finishes so the £198k is overstated.

Our board also say that our team spend is based on ST therefore there should be no implications to that budget, it may affect funds for club resources management staff etc.

The flipside to all of this is we should save on policing, and with any luck have greater control of fixtures / at least two more saturday home 3pm kick offs which is better for getting walk ups.

We may lose money in terms of kiosk revenue, advertising and TV.

As for its implications on Scottish football then i would suggest teams in the 3rd, 2nd and 1st divisions are buzzing at the possibility of putting their crowds through the roof for the season in which rangers will be in their league, therefore potentially financially benefiting all of the lower leagues, and increase the standard as a result of clubs having more money to spend. Them being out of the spl will increase the financial fair play with teams having to either tighten their belts or spend apporp, i cant help but feel this plays into the hands of clubs like hibs and all of the lower leagues.

The biggest disappointment is the spl had a chance to use this situation to radically change the league system, increasing the league sizes (which they will no doubt be agreeing / selling to rangers so they dont have to get promoted 3 times), getting rid of the split etc. But because this has all gone of for so long we may miss out.

Most significantly our club is the main promoter of running like a business, doing things the right way, working and living within our means, to the boards own detriment at times - if they dont go against rangers they are essentially saying they have it all wrong and spend, cheat, spend it the way forward.

[HibbySpurs]

There was a link posted to some interesting calculations done on another forum that stacked up, which basically meant that the Huns going kaput would cost the rest of the SPL rather less than the Huns - and certain prominent "characters" in the Scottish Sport media - would want you to believe.

Re: food, as far as I'm aware, Hibs sub-contract the provision of this service to "Rock 'ard Pies and Pricey Pizzas" PLC for an annual fee, so whether we sell 1 pie or 3500 pies to hungry Huns, it makes no difference to Hibs.

Out of interest, would Hibs policing costs go down, as obviously 500 Ross County fans (or whatever) or going to need a whole lot less in terms of bobbies to be paid than 3500 slavering, bevvied up Huns. I'm not certain of what the T+C's of Hibs contract with LBP is, or indeed whether we even have one??


The bit in bold is genius :top marks:rotflmao:

As for the OP, I dont know but I think the long term cost will be far greater than any short term gain that's obtained by letting them back in.

[Littlest Hobo]

The question should be.....

How much will it cost Hibs and Scottish football if Rangers don't go into the 3rd Div and stay in the SPL

I'll start..... Every penny that I would have put into the SPL between now til I die will be lost!

I hope their listening but I don't think they are.

[Onion]

I think we will all be affected. Look at players like Killen who saw us as a stepping stone to the Old Firm. The chance to play in front of 50 000 at Ibrox and Parkhead several times a season would also be part of any club trying to sell the SPL to a prospective signing. We can't pretend there will be no negatives without Rangers but that should not deter from the fact that they should not be playing SPL football next year.

The SPL is a freek league with everything skewed because of the OF. Losing one or both of them would just allow the league to settle back to the level it should be all along. No one other than the OF wins the league = freek. Less money and lower crowds doesn't necessarily mean less exciting football. At Hibs, it could'nt possibly be any worse than the stuff we've had in the last few years.