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HIBERNIAN-0762
13-06-2012, 12:07 PM
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/sport/not-having-rangers-would-help-hearts-1-2351765


:LOL:

Ross4356
13-06-2012, 12:10 PM
Dreamer

grunt
13-06-2012, 12:12 PM
I think he's got a point.

Andy74
13-06-2012, 12:13 PM
Hold on. I thought we agreed with this? All clubs would have a greater chance to be competitive at the top end of the table.

happiehibbie
13-06-2012, 12:14 PM
guys dont bury your head in the sand they can do it why because they spend money

Geo_1875
13-06-2012, 12:15 PM
I actually agree with him. They are deluded enough to believe they could challenge Celtc and even if they were only beating the other teams for 2nd they would turn out in large numbers. It's what they do (and we don't).

BarneyK
13-06-2012, 12:16 PM
guys dont bury your head in the sand they can do it why because they spend money

They won't be spending that much for the foreseeable but cannae argue with the guy's aspirations tbh.

Togs91
13-06-2012, 12:17 PM
In a weird way this has got to be good, if hearts board beleives this they may vote NO to a newco in the spl!

Andy74
13-06-2012, 12:18 PM
guys dont bury your head in the sand they can do it why because they spend money

Change the word spend to borrow and you are right.

bingo70
13-06-2012, 12:19 PM
It's the sort of arrogant and positive attitude we could do with more of.

Septimus
13-06-2012, 12:21 PM
Rangers starting from scratch in the Third Division will be of huge financial benefit to the lower division clubs. Spread a bit of the money about the leagues.

Otherwise they should be made to play all their home games in the SPL with closed doors and no TV for one year. The travelling support would presumably rise and some financial pay off would come to other clubs in the league.

muzzhfc
13-06-2012, 12:21 PM
he has a point but lost it completely with his ignorance and arrogance. may i remind him that his big team didnt finish 3rd this year and that (most suspect) they will be a weekened team next year due to them having to cut budgets. if he said "spl clubs" then yeah he would have a fair, measured, respectful comment. instead it just reeks worse than my fart that i just dropped

Littlest Hobo
13-06-2012, 12:30 PM
Mr Reilly, take note.

This statement coming from a Jambo, I hate to say that I agree with most of what he say's.

We will have an even better chance of competing with Celtic once the tax man catches up with Hearts ; )

JeMeSouviens
13-06-2012, 12:41 PM
Hold on. I thought we agreed with this? All clubs would have a greater chance to be competitive at the top end of the table.

:agree:

Most of what he says is fair enough. What he's missed is that Hearts would probably be well advised to keep the newco route open for future precedent. :wink:

Speedway
13-06-2012, 12:44 PM
I actually agree with him. They are deluded enough to believe they could challenge Celtc and even if they were only beating the other teams for 2nd they would turn out in large numbers. It's what they do (and we don't).

We were deluded enough to believe we'd beat them in a big game recently. How did that turn out again?

GreenCastle
13-06-2012, 12:48 PM
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/sport/not-having-rangers-would-help-hearts-1-2351765


:LOL:

I am not sure why we are laughing - the guy has a point.

At Hibs we should be doing everything we can(within our means) in the next few years to challenge and get European Football / more money into the club.

It's a great chance but the problem will be if the board realise it or not.

Ambition please Hibs :agree:

dangermouse
13-06-2012, 01:11 PM
he has a point but lost it completely with his ignorance and arrogance. may i remind him that his big team didnt finish 3rd this year and that (most suspect) they will be a weekened team next year due to them having to cut budgets. if he said "spl clubs" then yeah he would have a fair, measured, respectful comment. instead it just reeks worse than my fart that i just dropped

Here's hoping all the derbys are midweek then :wink:

iwasthere1972
13-06-2012, 01:18 PM
I tend to agree and don't see a lot wrong with the article. If we had a decent squad we would be of the same opinion. Plus it will be 11 teams going all out to take as many points off the lesser greens.

Hibercelona
13-06-2012, 03:44 PM
I wish we showed a similar level of "hot air" thinking to be honest.

I can see other clubs really going all out next season, while we do nothing and are fed the same crap as always.

Andy74
13-06-2012, 03:54 PM
I wish we showed a similar level of "hot air" thinking to be honest.

I can see other clubs really going all out next season, while we do nothing and are fed the same crap as always.

What makes you think Pat will not be going all out to get the best players he can to the club and ensuring we are more competitive.

We all start back at nothing.

Let's not make footballing issues due to bad run of managers and players they signed into something it's not. A new manager with new players have an opportunity to hit the ground running.

With the budget resources we will still have why shouldn't we be playing for second next year?

Booked4Being-Ugly
13-06-2012, 05:22 PM
They couldn't even compete with Dundee UTD or Motherwell in the league last season so they are still a bunch of deluded ****s.

smurf
13-06-2012, 07:20 PM
He talks keek. Our gates didn't go up in the first division.

Franck Stanton
13-06-2012, 07:40 PM
He talks keek. Our gates didn't go up in the first division.


yes they did

God Petrie
13-06-2012, 07:54 PM
I can't be the only one who sees the irony in Hertz supporters favouring punishments for clubs who overspend and fail to pay their bills.

Andy74
13-06-2012, 08:07 PM
I can't be the only one who sees the irony in Hertz supporters favouring punishments for clubs who overspend and fail to pay their bills.

Quite. Their Directors have been at it too.

Kaiser1962
13-06-2012, 08:29 PM
yes they did

No they didnt. Attendances fell by over 1500 per game in the first division.

erin go bragh
13-06-2012, 08:36 PM
No they didnt. Attendances fell by over 1500 per game in the first division.
We had over 14000 for a xmas game against Ayr Utd :cb
Just saying .

ggtth

Kaiser1962
13-06-2012, 08:42 PM
We had over 14000 for a xmas game against Ayr Utd :cb
Just saying .

ggtth

It was boxing day but nobody asked that. The statement was that our attendances went up in the first divison. They didnt

smurf
13-06-2012, 08:52 PM
yes they did

They didn't.

Jonnyboy
13-06-2012, 10:06 PM
yes they did

Nope. A common misconception because we got a couple of good holiday crowds but over the piece, our crowds fell from the previous seasons average

The Harp
13-06-2012, 10:56 PM
No they didnt. Attendances fell by over 1500 per game in the first division.

This is true, but you've got to remember the season we went down we would've had 2 games each at ER against the Yams and both halfs of the old firm which would have boosted our overall home attendance figure by approx 20k. If the figures for Hibs areas only were to be compared, I'm pretty sure they would show an increase when we were in the 1st division ... don't want to go back there tho.:bitchy:

Kato
13-06-2012, 11:14 PM
This is true, but you've got to remember the season we went down we would've had 2 games each at ER against the Yams and both halfs of the old firm which would have boosted our overall home attendance figure by approx 20k. If the figures for Hibs areas only were to be compared, I'm pretty sure they would show an increase when we were in the 1st division ... don't want to go back there tho.:bitchy:

Yup. It was shown that more Hibs fans turned up for games but overall crowds were down. One of them paradoxical thingmies.

JohnStephens91
14-06-2012, 12:29 AM
1st - Celtic - 93 points
5th - Yams - 52 points

Yes, Hearts are really going to be challenging Celtic for the title.

Other than that he is saying what our fans are saying, more competitive league and yet he is getting slated. Mind you he shouldn't be a Yam...

Kaiser1962
14-06-2012, 07:34 AM
Yup. It was shown that more Hibs fans turned up for games but overall crowds were down. One of them paradoxical thingmies.

Where was this shown to be fact? If there is evidence of this I would love to read it. We topped 14k three times, twice as Jonny says, on the holidays; Boxing day against Ayr and January 2nd against Raith Rovers. The highest attendance was in the last game of the season, "the end of the great adventure" and party time.

That attendances went up is one of those Hibs net myth's perpetuated over the years because it is repeated so much.

Kato
14-06-2012, 07:52 AM
Where was this shown to be fact? If there is evidence of this I would love to read it.

Canny mind. It was up on whatever incarnation of Hibs.net was around at the time - rivals or whatever, maybe the original Hibs.net. Crowds were down overall but more home fans attended than had done the previous season once the crowds had been broken down.


That attendances went up is one of those Hibs net myth's perpetuated over the years because it is repeated so much.


I'm not repeating that myth. I'll repeat this bit though - more home fans attended Easter Road when we were in the 1st Division than had attended the season before when we were in the SPL, although given that there were no fixtures against Celtic, RIPgers or the Gorgie Wombats crowds overall were lower.

Not really hard to grasp is it?

Kaiser1962
14-06-2012, 09:47 AM
I'm not repeating that myth. I'll repeat this bit though - more home fans attended Easter Road when we were in the 1st Division than had attended the season before when we were in the SPL, although given that there were no fixtures against Celtic, RIPgers or the Gorgie Wombats crowds overall were lower.

Not really hard to grasp is it?

There is no proof other than guesswork. It is another hibs.net myth that cannot be proved, or disproved for that matter, and is repeated so often it is passed of as fact.

The untrue statement was that our crowds rose when we were in the first division when the available evidence says that our crowds dropped by an average of over 1500 per game.

That's not too difficult is it? :wink:

Kato
14-06-2012, 10:10 AM
There is no proof other than guesswork. It is another hibs.net myth that cannot be proved, or disproved for that matter, and is repeated so often it is passed of as fact.

I'm not guessing. I'm reporting that there was a breakdown of crowds counting home support and away support seperately for the season we were in the 1st Divsion compared to the season previous which showed that more Hibs fans turned up for the season we were down than had done for the season during which we were relegated. I can't point you to where it is and it's more than likely disappeared into the internet ether, but it was written up, read and discussed on the an old incarnation of Hibs.net.


The untrue statement was that our crowds rose when we were in the first division when the available evidence says that our crowds dropped by an average of over 1500 per game.

I never made that statement so I don't know why you keep aiming it back at me. Crowds were down. I said it already but it's also been shown that underlying that fact Hibs crowds, as opposed to overall attendences went up.

Are you incapable of fathoming that this is possible or for some reason don't wish to even contemplate the possibility?


That's not too difficult is it? :wink:

:rolleyes:

Yeah, I do fully understand that and at the same time I fully expect you to ignore the first part of my reply whilst repeating that you feel I'm delving into some myth as compared to having a good memory as to the root of that myth - which is that overall crowds went down whilst the Hibs section within those crowds actually increased.

Carry on being selective in your persuit of what you want to believe.:wink:

Kaiser1962
14-06-2012, 11:03 AM
I'm not guessing. I'm reporting that there was a breakdown of crowds counting home support and away support seperately for the season we were in the 1st Divsion compared to the season previous which showed that more Hibs fans turned up for the season we were down than had done for the season during which we were relegated. I can't point you to where it is and it's more than likely disappeared into the internet ether, but it was written up, read and discussed on the an old incarnation of Hibs.net.




I never said you made an untrue statement I was referring to the statement that the Yam made in the Scotsman article. I apologise if you thought this.

All I was asking was for some sort of evidence to back this up. I have never seen anything other than conjecture and I do take on board a lot, if not most, of the published stats for Hibs.

Kato
14-06-2012, 11:27 AM
I never said you made an untrue statement I was referring to the statement that the Yam made in the Scotsman article. I apologise if you thought this.

All I was asking was for some sort of evidence to back this up. I have never seen anything other than conjecture and I do take on board a lot, if not most, of the published stats for Hibs.

OK, we' cool.

I dunno if iHibs (Purple and Green) has any evidence that might help with breakdowns.

brog
14-06-2012, 11:31 AM
I never said you made an untrue statement I was referring to the statement that the Yam made in the Scotsman article. I apologise if you thought this.

All I was asking was for some sort of evidence to back this up. I have never seen anything other than conjecture and I do take on board a lot, if not most, of the published stats for Hibs.

Here's some stats which may help.
1. Its true our gates went down while in Div 1, from an average of 12.02k to 10.43
2. Our gates, excl Yams & OF also dropped marginally, from 10.67k to 10.43k.
3. Given the likes of Aberdeen, Dundee teams, Killie etc would attract a far higher away support than Clydebank, Morton, Stranraer etc I think its a fair assumption more Hibs fans attended home games in Div 1 than in our relegation season.
4. Interestingly we had 4 gates over 12k in div 1, 3 of which were over 14k & 0nly 2 ( non OF/Y ) over 12k in SPL. The highest was 13.4k. As pointed out previously 3 of our 4 high gates in Div 1 came at holiday period & when celebrating winning the league but our only 2 ( non OF/Y ) home gates over 12k were last 2 games of season when we were desperately fighting relegation, just like this season!
5. Finally, our league winning success initially translated into higher gates at home the next season. We actually had a bigger crowd for our 1st home game of season, vs Well than 2 years earlier for Celtc.

Kaiser1962
14-06-2012, 11:51 AM
Here's some stats which may help.
1. Its true our gates went down while in Div 1, from an average of 12.02k to 10.43
2. Our gates, excl Yams & OF also dropped marginally, from 10.67k to 10.43k.
3. Given the likes of Aberdeen, Dundee teams, Killie etc would attract a far higher away support than Clydebank, Morton, Stranraer etc I think its a fair assumption more Hibs fans attended home games in Div 1 than in our relegation season.
4. Interestingly we had 4 gates over 12k in div 1, 3 of which were over 14k & 0nly 2 ( non OF/Y ) over 12k in SPL. The highest was 13.4k. As pointed out previously 3 of our 4 high gates in Div 1 came at holiday period & when celebrating winning the league but our only 2 ( non OF/Y ) home gates over 12k were last 2 games of season when we were desperately fighting relegation, just like this season!
5. Finally, our league winning success initially translated into higher gates at home the next season. We actually had a bigger crowd for our 1st home game of season, vs Well than 2 years earlier for Celtc.

Thats what I'm talking about.

Not that I am pedantic or anything but the key word is highlighted :greengrin

Kato
14-06-2012, 12:00 PM
Thats what I'm talking about.

Not that I am pedantic or anything but the key word is highlighted :greengrin


So he shouldn't assume anything because your not being pendantic or he shouldn't assume anything because you're assuming the swathes of Kop-like Airdrie, Stranraer and Clydebank fans must account for Hibs crowds holding up as well as they did? :cb

brog
14-06-2012, 12:01 PM
Thats what I'm talking about.

Not that I am pedantic or anything but the key word is highlighted :greengrin

Sure, but presumably, even being pedantic, :wink: you would agree its a fair assumption? However I'm doing this 14 years after it happened, like the OP I do remember an article many years ago which stated our home support did increase in our relegation season. This is why it still causes confusion now, even Fat Jim said recently that our gates went up in the 1st!

Houchy
14-06-2012, 12:01 PM
I am not sure why we are laughing - the guy has a point.

At Hibs we should be doing everything we can(within our means) in the next few years to challenge and get European Football / more money into the club.

It's a great chance but the problem will be if the board realise it or not.

Ambition please Hibs :agree:

:agree::top marks

Kaiser1962
14-06-2012, 12:19 PM
So he shouldn't assume anything because your not being pendantic or he shouldn't assume anything because you're assuming the swathes of Kop-like Airdrie, Stranraer and Clydebank fans must account for Hibs crowds holding up as well as they did? :cb

I am not assuming anything. I am stating the figures that showed attendances at ER dropped the year we spent in the first division. :aok:

Kaiser1962
14-06-2012, 12:27 PM
Sure, but presumably, even being pedantic, :wink: you would agree its a fair assumption? However I'm doing this 14 years after it happened, like the OP I do remember an article many years ago which stated our home support did increase in our relegation season. This is why it still causes confusion now, even Fat Jim said recently that our gates went up in the 1st!


Given the figures you quoted it is a reasonable assumption to make, in fact it may even be probable that the home attendances at least, held up. But overall gates were down and Hibs lost £2.7m that season.

I recall the opening (home)game of the season against Stranraer and would have bet money that the ground was full. In fact there was less than 10k at the game. Our minds play tricks on us over the years.

I would be grateful to anyone who could find any data, or indeed the article referred to, that would support this as all that I have are the overall figures.

Winston Ingram
14-06-2012, 07:46 PM
No they didnt. Attendances fell by over 1500 per game in the first division.

Maybe initially but our crowds were bigger than normal. 14000 v Hamilton, 15000 v Raith 15000 v Falkirk

Kaiser1962
15-06-2012, 06:55 AM
Maybe initially but our crowds were bigger than normal. 14000 v Hamilton, 15000 v Raith 15000 v Falkirk

We had two home games against Hamilton in the 1st and the attendances were 9696 0n 26th September (0-0) and 10233 on 16th January.

(since you mention Accies we didnt play them again at ER until 10 seasons later when 10437 attended a 2-0 win on 13th December)

I assume you meant Ayr United when 14106 attended ER for a 3-0 win on Boxing Day (although only 9064 attended a week earlier for a 3-0 win against Clydebank).

If you look at Brog's post you will see that we never topped 15k that season and only over 12k four times.

The crowd v Raith on 2nd January was 14,703 (5-1) and, on the final day v Falkirk 14,801 (2-1)

jgl07
15-06-2012, 09:40 PM
Here's some stats which may help.
1. Its true our gates went down while in Div 1, from an average of 12.02k to 10.43
2. Our gates, excl Yams & OF also dropped marginally, from 10.67k to 10.43k.
3. Given the likes of Aberdeen, Dundee teams, Killie etc would attract a far higher away support than Clydebank, Morton, Stranraer etc I think its a fair assumption more Hibs fans attended home games in Div 1 than in our relegation season.
4. Interestingly we had 4 gates over 12k in div 1, 3 of which were over 14k & 0nly 2 ( non OF/Y ) over 12k in SPL. The highest was 13.4k. As pointed out previously 3 of our 4 high gates in Div 1 came at holiday period & when celebrating winning the league but our only 2 ( non OF/Y ) home gates over 12k were last 2 games of season when we were desperately fighting relegation, just like this season!
5. Finally, our league winning success initially translated into higher gates at home the next season. We actually had a bigger crowd for our 1st home game of season, vs Well than 2 years earlier for Celtc.

Hibs averaged over 10,000 in Division One. This was only the third time that was acheived in the 1990s. The highest crowds were registered in the relegation season and the previous season where Hibs had to play-off against Airdrie.

The crowds only dropped by about 1,300 in Division One. The only team with a decent away following was Falkirk. Partick were in Division Two that year. Some such a Stranraer, Clydebank, and Hamilton brought very few. By contrast most Premier Division teams had good away followings in the 1990s. Aberdeen had a particularly healthy away support back then. Eight of the 18 home games were against the OF, Hearts, and Aberdeen.

It is safe to report that Hibs home support went up when in Division One.

Kaiser1962
16-06-2012, 09:48 AM
Hibs averaged over 10,000 in Division One. This was only the third time that was acheived in the 1990s. The highest crowds were registered in the relegation season and the previous season where Hibs had to play-off against Airdrie.

The crowds only dropped by about 1,300 in Division One. The only team with a decent away following was Falkirk. Partick were in Division Two that year. Some such a Stranraer, Clydebank, and Hamilton brought very few. By contrast most Premier Division teams had good away followings in the 1990s. Aberdeen had a particularly healthy away support back then. Eight of the 18 home games were against the OF, Hearts, and Aberdeen.

It is safe to report that Hibs home support went up when in Division One.


The average attendance per home game in the 1st division was 10,433. The previous season in the SPL it was 12,025 and the season following the "Great Adventure" it was 12,070. Closer to a deficit of 1600 than it is to 1300.

It may well be that Hibs support held up in the 1st, it probably did, but the original statement from the Yam was that Hibs "crowds went up" when we were in the 1st when, clearly, they did not.

Kato
16-06-2012, 11:49 AM
It may well be that Hibs support held up in the 1st, it probably did, but the original statement from the Yam was that Hibs "crowds went up" when we were in the 1st when, clearly, they did not.

I'll say it for you again just so everyone here, no-one whom is agreeing with said Jambo guy anyway, get's the picture.

Attendances at Easter Road went down last time we were in the 1st Division.

Anyone else want to say it?

No?

Anybody?

Over to you Kaiser1962, it's you turn to say it again.


I think.

Kaiser1962
16-06-2012, 11:50 AM
I'll say it for you again just so everyone here, no-one whom is agreeing with said Jambo guy anyway, get's the picture.

Attendances at Easter Road went down last time we were in the 1st Division.

Anyone else want to say it?

No?

Anybody?

Over to you Kaiser1962, it's you turn to say it again.


I think.


:na na:

HIBERNIAN-0762
16-06-2012, 12:03 PM
Thread now totally boring :zzzzz!:

Admins delete......please

Kato
16-06-2012, 06:40 PM
:na na:

:wink::greengrin