Who is our chief scout?

[smurf]

Do we have someone similar to this guy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/football/18355201

Obviously not....

Our transfer policy appears to have been more about agents punting their clientele in recent years...

[easty]

Newcastle United work off a slightly bigger budget than we do.


He picked out the likes of Hatem Ben Arfa, Cheick Tiote, Yohan Cabaye, Papiss Cisse and Sylvain Marveaux.



It's not as if those players came from nowhere. I'm sure if we had the budget we could send people to go watch the top players in the French and Dutch leagues for possible signings.

[smurf]

Newcastle United work off a slightly bigger budget than we do.



It's not as if those players came from nowhere. I'm sure if we had the budget we could send people to go watch the top players in the French and Dutch leagues for possible signings.

Cough... Splutter... Almost choking...

I'm not suggesting we shoukd have been in the market for these players...

However, we will have a chief scout and I'm wondering who he is.

John Park for example sourced Ivan Sproule in 2005.

[McSwanky]

Do we have someone similar to this guy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/football/18355201

Obviously not....

Our transfer policy appears to have been more about agents punting their clientele in recent years...

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?231634-Who-Is-David-Woodison-and-What-Is-His-Role&highlight=scout

Oh wait, you started that thread as well :wink:

[iwasthere1972]

Do we have someone similar to this guy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/football/18355201

Obviously not....

Our transfer policy appears to have been more about agents punting their clientele in recent years...

We have scouts? Are you sure?

Thought it was just Tam McCourt and a DVD player.

[smurf]

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?231634-Who-Is-David-Woodison-and-What-Is-His-Role&highlight=scout

Oh wait, you started that thread as well :wink:

So David Woodison is the chief scout? As in a traditional scout travelling over the country scouting for undiscovered gems?

[smurf]

We have scouts? Are you sure?

Thought it was just Tam McCourt and a DVD player.

It appears that way.

And if we do have a chief scout you have to question the return he's given...

And if we don't then perhaps we need to get one?

[offshorehibby]

I think we should push the boat out and get somebody like John Park back.

[Kojock]

We have scouts? Are you sure?

Thought it was just Tam McCourt and a DVD player.

Nah its this guy he is a superb scout.

8338

[McSwanky]

So David Woodison is the chief scout? As in a traditional scout travelling over the country scouting for undiscovered gems?

Did I say that?

[smurf]

Did I say that?

Did I say that you said that?

[smurf]

I think we should push the boat out and get somebody like John Park back.

John Park is apparently very highly thought of at Celtic. Agreed though we need someone. Derek Adams dad appears to be highly respected.

[iwasthere1972]

Nah its this guy he is a superb scout.

8338

That explains why we've been signing Ging Gang Goolies.

[easty]

Cough... Splutter... Almost choking...

I'm not suggesting we shoukd have been in the market for these players...

However, we will have a chief scout and I'm wondering who he is.

John Park for example sourced Ivan Sproule in 2005.

You want to go get that cough looked at, apparantly there's legionnaires disease going around.

[McSwanky]

Did I say that you said that?

Touche :thumbsup:

Enjoy the thread :wink:

[Andy74]

So David Woodison is the chief scout? As in a traditional scout travelling over the country scouting for undiscovered gems?

Probably mentioned on the linked thread but he's an adminstrator that co-ordinates the scouting.

The scouting thing is interesting but I think football has changed a bit. There isn't a real transfer system for one and so you generally will be working off free agents aor those that are to become free agents.

I guess these days you find out about these by agents letting you know. You then do your homework on those players, send people to watch them, trial them, watch the DVDs which have never once shown a bad player, whatever.

I'm sure we still have a range of guys out there who also do just watch games from all over as well as the coaching staff. Hughes and Rice in particular travelled all over to watch games.

The likes of Sauzee, Latapy, Boozy, Zemmama etc were all offered by agents, not identified by a fleet of scouts.

[Pretty Boy]

The question re scouting was one that wasn't answered particularly well in that board q and a that was organised.

Woodison was confirmed as scouting co-ordinator although what that job actually involves is still something of a mystery. A few people reckoned this was merely an admin role whilst some seemed to suggest he actually attended games as a scout.

I.don't see why it has to be so hard to answer really. 'We have 3 people working in scouting, we have no recognised chief scout and all scouts report to the football manager' would suffice.

Whatever the set up our scouting isn't working, I don't remember the last time we brought in a player who really stepped up a level, hopefully Cairney will prove this is changing. Any scouting system that allowed De Graaf and Hart, who were miles past their sell by date, to be brought in as high earners is fundementally flawed imo.

[heretoday]

I believe our chief scout was last seen legging it up the gangplank of a slow boat at Leith. Destination China.

[silverhibee]

Do we have someone similar to this guy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/football/18355201

Obviously not....

Our transfer policy appears to have been more about agents punting their clientele in recent years...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=OVXD8J8ILL8

[AlbertK86]

Am I not right in saying Woodison is related to one of the board.

Jobs for the boys.... Did he come from a decent football background ?

[McSwanky]

Am I not right in saying Woodison is related to one of the board.

Jobs for the boys.... Did he come from a decent football background ?

Here we go again.... :greengrin

[matty_f]

Am I not right in saying Woodison is related to one of the board.

Jobs for the boys.... Did he come from a decent football background ?]

This was (IIRC) categorically denied by the board.

[AlbertK86]

Okay that actually restores my faith but wot was his pedigree

[easty]

Okay that actually restores my faith but wot was his pedigree

Quality pedigree. His mum was a scout at Ajax and his dad was 1988 Find The Needle In The Haystack World Champ. :dunno:

[Hibiza]

based on recent form, is it Bear Gryhllys or whatever hes called

[Cameron1875]

Hibs scouting system is an absolute disgrace and probably the worst in the league imo. Seems a long time ago that a certain David Murphy an also Boozy lined up as trialists for us! That shows there are gems out there but since John park left i can't remember us signing a decent player who we had not previously heard of.

[jdships]

Probably mentioned on the linked thread but he's an adminstrator that co-ordinates the scouting.

The scouting thing is interesting but I think football has changed a bit. There isn't a real transfer system for one and so you generally will be working off free agents aor those that are to become free agents.

I guess these days you find out about these by agents letting you know. You then do your homework on those players, send people to watch them, trial them, watch the DVDs which have never once shown a bad player, whatever.

I'm sure we still have a range of guys out there who also do just watch games from all over as well as the coaching staff. Hughes and Rice in particular travelled all over to watch games.

The likes of Sauzee, Latapy, Boozy, Zemmama etc were all offered by agents, not identified by a fleet of scouts.

I know of eight who work Lothians /Borders/ Stirling and three who work Fife . I understand ( third hand ) that we have in excess of twenty five working quietly and without fuss scouting around Scotland and north of England .

:greengrin:flag:

[Andy74]

Hibs scouting system is an absolute disgrace and probably the worst in the league imo. Seems a long time ago that a certain David Murphy an also Boozy lined up as trialists for us! That shows there are gems out there but since John park left i can't remember us signing a decent player who we had not previously heard of.

Funny you bring up two players who weren't scouted though?!

[jdships]

Hibs scouting system is an absolute disgrace and probably the worst in the league imo. Seems a long time ago that a certain David Murphy an also Boozy lined up as trialists for us! That shows there are gems out there but since John park left i can't remember us signing a decent player who we had not previously heard of.

Do you understanf how football scouting works ?
Guys don't go along to matches wearing badges saying " I am Hibernian FC Scout "
I am sure many posters on here who watch age group football regularly will have struck up a conversation with a total stranger and by chance find he is there to watch ,' the No 10'
I was good friends with Alex Miller and during his time at ER he never let out of his sight his card index of 10 to 15 year olds playing in Scotland , Nth of England ,Nth Ireland . Much of this info was provided by mostly unpaid " scouts" . I have no doubt that most if not all managers use the same system
Scouting is like spying you keep your mouth shut and your eyes open .

:flag:

[silverhibee]

Do you understanf how football scouting works ?
Guys don't go along to matches wearing badges saying " I am Hibernian FC Scout "
I am sure many posters on here who watch age group football regularly will have struck up a conversation with a total stranger and by chance find he is there to watch ,' the No 10'
I was good friends with Alex Miller and during his time at ER he never let out of his sight his card index of 10 to 15 year olds playing in Scotland , Nth of England ,Nth Ireland . Much of this info was provided by mostly unpaid " scouts" . I have no doubt that most if not all managers use the same system
Scouting is like spying you keep your mouth shut and your eyes open .

:flag:


Iam sure you will know as the name escapes me just now, who was the old guy that used to do the reports on youth football for the EEN, you would normally see him at East of Scotland games taking photos of games and reporting about them in the EEN. :aok:

[cocopops1875]

Do you understanf how football scouting works ?
Guys don't go along to matches wearing badges saying " I am Hibernian FC Scout "
I am sure many posters on here who watch age group football regularly will have struck up a conversation with a total stranger and by chance find he is there to watch ,' the No 10'
I was good friends with Alex Miller and during his time at ER he never let out of his sight his card index of 10 to 15 year olds playing in Scotland , Nth of England ,Nth Ireland . Much of this info was provided by mostly unpaid " scouts" . I have no doubt that most if not all managers use the same system
Scouting is like spying you keep your mouth shut and your eyes open .

:flag:
this has always been my picture of things too, the chief scout has a network of trusted informants who watch lots of youth football then give him tip offs, then if a follow up is good maybe an employed scout would go have a look, I assume if anything comes of the original tip I'd assume there maybe a bung/payment in kind.

[Perspective]

David Woodison's role 100% isn't strictly an admin job.

He's a regular at games all over the world.

I don't know why the Hibs hierarchy refuse to give a straight answer to this question. Maybe they don't want to make someone seemingly accountable for years of bad recruitment - and that's probably fair.

It isn't the fault of one man that our player turnover has been so high, that we've no balance to the squad or sellable assets. Latter is key because without transfer fee income there's nothing to reinvest in the squad. In short, we're a shambles.

But I'm still running on blind faith that we'll somehow turn it around. I'd feel far more comfortable with a George Adams/John Park type overseeing football matters, unless the board give PF the freedom to work with a budget as he sees fit.

[Perspective]

Do you understanf how football scouting works ?
Guys don't go along to matches wearing badges saying " I am Hibernian FC Scout "
I am sure many posters on here who watch age group football regularly will have struck up a conversation with a total stranger and by chance find he is there to watch ,' the No 10'
I was good friends with Alex Miller and during his time at ER he never let out of his sight his card index of 10 to 15 year olds playing in Scotland , Nth of England ,Nth Ireland . Much of this info was provided by mostly unpaid " scouts" . I have no doubt that most if not all managers use the same system
Scouting is like spying you keep your mouth shut and your eyes open .

:flag:

Think you're being a bit harsh on the guy with the first line of your reply.

Of course Hibs scouts are known to clubs. Even if they aren't decked out in club attire (as many club representatives are), they'll have booked a pass under Hibs. It's also a small scene up here so everyone knows everyone. Perhaps youth scouts can slip under the radar, to an extent, but certainly not at senior level.

And he's right to say our recruitment has been a disgrace. Rod Petrie, Scott Lindsay, David Woodison and (to an extent) a succession of managers are culpable for that.

[Beefster]

I know of eight who work Lothians /Borders/ Stirling and three who work Fife . I understand ( third hand ) that we have in excess of twenty five working quietly and without fuss scouting around Scotland and north of England .

:greengrin:flag:

Are they scouting kids or pro players (with eleven local scouts, I'm guessing kids)? I think most of the grumbles about the scouting operation are down to our utter lack of success signing older players who can help the team now, not taking a punt on kids who may help in five to ten years.

[jdships]

Think you're being a bit harsh on the guy with the first line of your reply.

Of course Hibs scouts are known to clubs. Even if they aren't decked out in club attire (as many club representatives are), they'll have booked a pass under Hibs. It's also a small scene up here so everyone knows everyone. Perhaps youth scouts can slip under the radar, to an extent, but certainly not at senior level.

And he's right to say our recruitment has been a disgrace. Rod Petrie, Scott Lindsay, David Woodison and (to an extent) a succession of managers are culpable for that.

I stick by what I said and what I know .
Football clubs , employ/retain people to keep tabs on mature players in England, Ireland and even the Continent . They operate just like a footballers Agent only they just pass on information . It works like accident claims ' No win no fee' .
The " Scouting Agent " recommends a player to a club/manager and should they sign him they get a fee.
I know a Frenchman who "punts" players around the Scottish and English Ch /Div 1& 2 clubs and makes a nice living from it .

[jdships]

Iam sure you will know as the name escapes me just now, who was the old guy that used to do the reports on youth football for the EEN, you would normally see him at East of Scotland games taking photos of games and reporting about them in the EEN. :aok:

I remember him well and can't mind his name , he always had an open notebook sticking out of his pocket and loved a chat with anyone around - a really nice guy .
Remember being at an evening pre season game at Civil Service Strollers when Garry O'Conner was playing one of his early ,if not his first ,game in a Hibs shirt and this chap told everyone around him to ' remember this laddies name , he is going to be a star '
Sure somebody can remember who he was and let us know

[Saorsa]

For a good few years now I think it's been this guy or it might as well have been :agree:

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r623/JDPH1875/blind_man_.gif

[Golden Bear]

I remember him well and can't mind his name , he always had an open notebook sticking out of his pocket and loved a chat with anyone around - a really nice guy .
Remember being at an evening pre season game at Civil Service Strollers when Garry O'Conner was playing one of his early ,if not his first ,game in a Hibs shirt and this chap told everyone around him to ' remember this laddies name , he is going to be a statir '
Sure somebody can remember who he was and let us know

Craigie Veitch?

[FranckSuzy]

I remember him well and can't mind his name , he always had an open notebook sticking out of his pocket and loved a chat with anyone around - a really nice guy .
Remember being at an evening pre season game at Civil Service Strollers when Garry O'Conner was playing one of his early ,if not his first ,game in a Hibs shirt and this chap told everyone around him to ' remember this laddies name , he is going to be a star '
Sure somebody can remember who he was and let us know


Is it Ian Mackay?

[silverhibee]

Is it Ian Mackay?

That's the one FS.



I think. :greengrin

[woodyloon]

I'm not sure if Hibs employ any Scouts now, possibly as mentioned we have a Scouting Administrator.

I thought I read somewhere that clubs like Hibs have or are linked to numerous Scouts all over the UK and possibly into Europe, but these Scouts are more Freelance where they aren't solely Scouting for a club but many different clubs. Clubs must give them guideline for they type of players and position etc and they report back then it' will be up to Hibs Scouting Admininstrator to inform the manager and take things from there.

Hibs will rely heavily on Agents touting there players as possibly targets for us to sign or get on loan etc.

[TrickyNicky]

Do you understanf how football scouting works ?
Guys don't go along to matches wearing badges saying " I am Hibernian FC Scout "
I am sure many posters on here who watch age group football regularly will have struck up a conversation with a total stranger and by chance find he is there to watch ,' the No 10'
I was good friends with Alex Miller and during his time at ER he never let out of his sight his card index of 10 to 15 year olds playing in Scotland , Nth of England ,Nth Ireland . Much of this info was provided by mostly unpaid " scouts" . I have no doubt that most if not all managers use the same system
Scouting is like spying you keep your mouth shut and your eyes open .

:flag:

Slightly off topic but I've been made aware of scouts at Under 7 and Under 8 matches here in Australia.
They are looking at players earlier and earlier.
They tend to go to the FUTSAL comps to gain a better indication of their ability, crazy eh !

[Pete]

The OP is right in highlighting this because something is clearly wrong. If we're serious about changing the club culture then this area has to be the top priority.

It should be about signing young, hungry players with a footballing brain. Hibs should be their biggest gig yet and they should be eager to progress. I'm not interested in fitness or bulk as that can be improved by hard work. Even fringe players from bigger clubs should be considered provided they can convince the team that they are willing to graft and are all about self-improvement.

We don't have any money to sign superstars and the policy of two or three big players plus journeymen hasn't worked.

It's time to sign that type of player, drill them and drill them again until the cows come home. Fitness and working on weaknesses should take up the part of the day that they used to get off. Beckham can cross a ball like that because he done it for hours as a youngster. Stanley Matthews was the player he was because he done his own training regime on the beach by himself before he got on the bus to formal training every morning. Ben hogan didn't go to bed unless he hit 100 balls in a row against his bedpost from five feet. If he missed the 99th he started again.

It's time to get people in who buy into the idea that practice makes perfect no matter how tedious it may sound. If they cant find it within themselves like the greats mentioned above, then they can appreciate boundaries and the value of such efforts.

I honestly think that our golden generation would have relished these boundaries and standards but were let down by the overall culture. The main investment for the long term has to be in an extensive scouting network and change of type of player we recruit. We should multiply by three the amount of employed staff even if that means we have to suffer in the short term. We should be the first port of call for any young, up and coming player, not bloody Dundee United!

We need to change our name to Athletic Hibernian if that gets the message across. Come to us if you want to improve and You'll get a chance!

[Iain G]

Come to us if you want to improve and You'll get a chance!

It comes down to the manager selecting the players he wants to sign at the end of the day and hoping that the current/latest incumbent in that role has an idea of the type of players he wants at Hibs, he does seem to have realised that we have no resilience in the team and certainly a lack of belief and leadership, mind you Yogi knew this too and did nowt about it, so fingers crossed Fenlon can walk the walk.

As far as I can see, this Woodison dude is no more than a co-ordinator who is the liaison between our manager and the scouts that we use, no more and no less than that.

[andyf5]

That's the one FS.



I think. :greengrin


Yes, it's Ian MacKay. http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/our-local-hero-ian-decides-to-call-it-a-day-1-1209143

He lived near me and was passionate about getting proper football facilities for kids in the area. He knew a lot about the set-up in other countries , particularly the Netherlands, and said we were wasting Scottish talent with our approach. If we are not producing good players it doesn't matter how good the scouting system is.

[silverhibee]

Yes, it's Ian MacKay. http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/our-local-hero-ian-decides-to-call-it-a-day-1-1209143

He lived near me and was passionate about getting proper football facilities for kids in the area. He knew a lot about the set-up in other countries , particularly the Netherlands, and said we were wasting Scottish talent with our approach. If we are not producing good players it doesn't matter how good the scouting system is.

:aok:

Thanks for that, the guy was gentleman and was always willing to talk about up and coming players in the youth leagues, wonder how many games he watched in his time eh.

:not worth