England vs Scotland Next Year

[SteveHFC]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/322796/England-to-take-on-Scots-again

[Leishy1995]

Hope we have a new manager by then. Because with him in, we will be torn apart. And embarassed.

[Haymaker]

Didn't they say this last year? Doubt it will happen.

[StokePogesHibs]

Is that New England v Scotland

[spike220]

Is there no end to the embarrassment we must suffer. NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[hibsforeurope]

I'm all for it...as long as we have a new manager in place long before it.

[Hainan Hibs]

I'm against it, I want full focus on a winnable qualifying group.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

We'll get pumped, but it'll be a good day of drinking so I'm not fussy either way. I'm almost immune to the pain from my team losing these days.

[Judas Iscariot]

If that bearded, trampy looking Hertz fud is still in charge then we will get utterly pumped :faf:

[Cocaine&Caviar]

22 englishmen running around on a field essentially.

[Pretty Boy]

What's the point?

Another glamour game that we take an absolute pumping in. We should be forgetting all about Brazil, England and the USA and concentrating on playing and beating teams with similar rankings to us. Might get us a few much needed ranking points as opposed to the 'experience' of getting played off the park for 90 minutes.

[Judas Iscariot]

What's the point?

Another glamour game that we take an absolute pumping in. We should be forgetting all about Brazil, England and the USA and concentrating on playing and beating teams with similar rankings to us. Might get us a few much needed ranking points as opposed to the 'experience' of getting played off the park for 90 minutes.


Hopefully Libya, Armenia and El Salvador have quiet schedules then :greengrin

[Winston Ingram]

Is that New England v Scotland

tough game:cb

[Winston Ingram]

22 englishmen running around on a field essentially.

:greengrin:agree:

[DH1875]

Didn't they say this last year? Doubt it will happen.

It's a done deal. Has been for a while and is to celebrate the 150th year of the FA.

[Scouse Hibee]

Hope this happens, love the banter in our house.It's not too bad on here either. :greengrin

[--------]

We'll get pumped, but it'll be a good day of drinking so I'm not fussy either way. I'm almost immune to the pain from my team losing these days.



That accounts for Levein and the Scotland team - how are YOU planning to spend the day?

[down-the-slope]

We maybe Rangers have just torpedoed that...:wink:

[Lost_Mackem]

"The oldest international rivalry in the world".

There isn't a rivalry anymore in my opinion. :rolleyes:

[marinello59]

"The oldest international rivalry in the world".

There isn't a rivalry anymore in my opinion. :rolleyes:

Sadly true. England's rivals are Germany, Spain, France etc
Scotland's are Andorra, the Faroes and my Mum and her mates.

[--------]

Sadly true. England's rivals are Germany, Spain, France etc
Scotland's are Andorra, the Faroes and my Mum and her mates.


Don't be daft - your mum and her mates could give Levein's bunch four goals of a start and still hammer them.

[iwasthere1972]

We'll get pumped, but it'll be a good day of drinking so I'm not fussy either way. I'm almost immune to the pain from my team losing these days.

The result doesn't matter so long as we bring the Wembley turf, goalposts/bar and the penalty spot home.

[Frazerbob]

14th August 2013.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2160409/England-v-Scotland-clash-Wembley-2013.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[LancashireHibby]

England v Scotland confirmed (http://englandfans.thefa.com/ef/pages/news.aspx?id=d8b8d17c-16af-4282-b8fe-fa7e51cad334)

[Pete]

Sadly true. England's rivals are Germany, Spain, France etc
Scotland's are Andorra, the Faroes and my Mum and her mates.

England don't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as these teams. Rivals my erchie.

Maybe a few years ago England would have pummeled us but not this bunch of disjointed individuals.

The only people who think England are still a force are their deluded fans. Even their press are starting to realise how bad they are.

I think we'll get at least a draw.

[lyonhibs]

England don't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as these teams. Rivals my erchie.

Maybe a few years ago England would have pummeled us but not this bunch of disjointed individuals.

The only people who think England are still a force are their deluded fans. Even their press are starting to realise how bad they are.

I think we'll get at least a draw.

:dizzy:

England may not be top tekkers, but are you forgetting that we have Craig Levein as our manager, and Wilshire will be back by 2013. Fletcher is liable to still be out/possibly retired, and Kenny Miller will be a year older and slower, yet still guaranteed a start. Make no mistake about it, we'll most likely get rammed twice and sideways, but it'll be a great weekend on the bevvy.

[PISTOL1875]

If Levein gets his way then it will be England v England's rejects.........

[Chibs]

I will be there

[Frazerbob]

:dizzy:

England may not be top tekkers, but are you forgetting that we have Craig Levein as our manager, and Wilshire will be back by 2013. Fletcher is liable to still be out/possibly retired, and Kenny Miller will be a year older and slower, yet still guaranteed a start. Make no mistake about it, we'll most likely get rammed twice and sideways, but it'll be a great weekend on the bevvy.

Midweek....it's a Wednesday.

[Cabbage East]

Sadly true. England's rivals are Germany, Spain, France etc
Scotland's are Andorra, the Faroes and my Mum and her mates.

Utter nonsense. Those teams are winners. What have England won in the last 40 years? The same as us. But then you just like to noise people up.

[blaikie]

Wonder if Steven Fletcher will get a call .........

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Scotland will always raise their game v Engerlund. Didn't we win the last game between the sides? Pretty sure the overall record is quite close despite Engerlunds x10 population advantage?

Not a huge Scotland fan but a game I'd like to go to.

[Sodje_18]

Scotland will always raise their game v Engerlund. Didn't we win the last game between the sides? Pretty sure the overall record is quite close despite Engerlunds x10 population advantage?

Not a huge Scotland fan but a game I'd like to go to.
England have 45 wins, Scotland have 41 and there have been 24 draws.

Also yes I believe we did win the last one, down at Wembley 1-0 in 2000 play off match IIRC?

[SteveHFC]

Would love to go :agree:

[ScottB]

If Levein gets his way then it will be England v England's rejects.........

Lined up in whatever crackpot formation he dreams up by then.


Annoying that they ran away from playing us under Smith / McLeish, but now that we are awful again here comes the friendly request... Typical!

[Ultrabee1-0]

i have dreamed of going to a scotland england game all my ****ing life!
am only 16 and i have never experienced one yet.
bring it on you inbred *******s!!!!!!!

[Steve-O]

4-5 years ago I would have been confident of a win. Now, I fear the worst.4

[Steve-O]

J
The result doesn't matter so long as we bring the Wembley turf, goalposts/bar and the penalty spot home.

First prize goes to whoever brings back the Wembley arch :agree:

[I'm_cabbaged]

Lined up in whatever crackpot formation he dreams up by then.


Annoying that they ran away from playing us under Smith / McLeish, but now that we are awful again here comes the friendly request... Typical!

Now?

[Pretty Boy]

i have dreamed of going to a scotland england game all my ****ing life!
am only 16 and i have never experienced one yet.
bring it on you inbred *******s!!!!!!!

Who's inbred exactly?

[HibbySpurs]

i have dreamed of going to a scotland england game all my ****ing life!
am only 16 and i have never experienced one yet.
bring it on you inbred *******s!!!!!!!

Well you may want grow up a little first mate, my mother is English and a fair % of my family including my two nieces as my brother live in England now. I'll put your last comment down to your youth mate, lesson learned I hope?:wink:

Hope you can keep your rivalry more Hibs v Hearts than Celtic V Rangers on this one.

To the other bit of your quote, it's an amazing game, I remember the build up to Euro '96 and what a game that was although sadly we lost. We've held the bragging rights ever since our last encounter when we pumped them on their own patch even though we missed out 2-1 on agg after tht wee * Scholes scored twice at Hampden on the Saturday.


Looking forward to this one already:aok:

[hibsbollah]

Oh dear. Will be an achievement to keep it respectable.

[spike220]

Is there no end to this constant humiliation.:rolleyes:

[BoltonHibee]

Bring them on!

[spike220]

I was the last Scotsman to score a goal in the old Wembley stadium, true story.

[Pretty Boy]

I was the last Scotsman to score a goal in the old Wembley stadium, true story.

Who was the last (professional) Scotsman to score at Wembley?

I know Don Hutchison got the winner in 2000 but he's about as Scottish as jellied eels.

[HNA12]

I was the last Scotsman to score a goal in the old Wembley stadium, true story.

Share the story then.:greengrin

[Scouse Hibee]

i have dreamed of going to a scotland england game all my ****ing life!
am only 16 and i have never experienced one yet.
bring it on you inbred *******s!!!!!!!

Best wait until you've grown up before attending, either that or have an attitude rethink!

[Scouse Hibee]

Lined up in whatever crackpot formation he dreams up by then.


Annoying that they ran away from playing us under Smith / McLeish, but now that we are awful again here comes the friendly request... Typical!

:greengrin Yep running scared right enough.

[Cocaine&Caviar]

England don't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as these teams. Rivals my erchie.

Maybe a few years ago England would have pummeled us but not this bunch of disjointed individuals.

The only people who think England are still a force are their deluded fans. Even their press are starting to realise how bad they are.

I think we'll get at least a draw.

Rubbish.

[SouthamptonHibs]

Cannae wait bring it on! Hopefully we'll have a new manager in place by then. Next up is to secure enough TA points in the up and coming away games to make sure i get a ticket! Wembley only 70 miles up the road

[TrickyNicky]

Best wait until you've grown up before attending, either that or have an attitude rethink!

What exactly should a 16 year old testosterone fueled laddie, excited beyond all football patriotism think Yoda ?

[lyonhibs]

What exactly should a 16 year old testosterone fueled laddie, excited beyond all football patriotism think Yoda ?

Ideally not that the English are "inbred ****ers".

[TrickyNicky]

Ideally not that the English are "inbred ****ers".

If it was said aboot the Jambo fuds would anyone be offended ?

[HibeeSince85]

I have a year to find someway of getting tickets for this, better start saving up as the tickets are going to have to come from the touts, TA members are the only ones guaranteed tickets for this I think(rightly so)

[HibeeSince85]

If it was said aboot the Jambo fuds would anyone be offended ?

That's a true statement though when made about them:greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

Utter nonsense. Those teams are winners. What have England won in the last 40 years? The same as us. But then you just like to noise people up.

Following that logic, Scotland's rivals are the Turks and Caicos Islands and San Marino because they've won the same as us in their history.

We're 47 in the FIFA rankings. England are 7th, which is above the likes of Portugal, Italy and France.

http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtable/index.html

[Pretty Boy]

Ideally not that the English are "inbred ****ers".

Casual xenophobia is acceptable when its aimed at the English though. Or so it would seem.

[Hibbyradge]

If it was said aboot the Jambo fuds would anyone be offended ?

There's a huge difference between dissing your football rivals and xenophobia.

I wonder if he's ever had a conversation with an English person and, if so, what did they do/say to make him so angry.

[hibsbollah]

There's a huge difference between dissing your football rivals and xenophobia.

I wonder if he's ever had a conversation with an English person and, if so, what did they do/say to make him so angry.

My wife and kids are English and they infuriate ME from time to time. So maybe he has a point :dunno:

[Hibbyradge]

My wife and kids are English and they infuriate ME from time to time. So maybe he has a point :dunno:

How would you feel if he called them "inbred *******s" to their face. Maybe even shouted it at them?

[Eyrie]

Casual xenophobia is acceptable when its aimed at the English though. Or so it would seem."Casual xenophobia" is a polite way of saying "closet racism".

[HibeeSince85]

How would you feel if he called them "inbred *******s" to their face. Maybe even shouted it at them?

Remember, he's 16!

Daft statement and he'll grow out of it I'm sure, I don't imagine the lad is going around screaming it at any English man, woman or child going about their day.

[Pretty Boy]

"Casual xenophobia" is a polite way of saying "closet racism".

Indeed.

I was trying to be polite though.

[TrickyNicky]

Indeed.

I was trying to be polite though.

So you're saying he's a racist but thought it impolite to call him one, why ?

[Billy Whizz]

I wonder how many tickets we'll get for this?

[green&left]

From my experience, hibskid9 merely has the same mentality off the majority of the "Tartan Army" (well the ones i've met anyway).

Scotland doesn't really interest me. May head down for a couple of days just for the piss-up though...

[Pretty Boy]

So you're saying he's a racist but thought it impolite to call him one, why ?

Replace the word English with Pakistanis in the following sentence:

'The English are inbred ****kers'.

Is that racist?

[TrickyNicky]

Replace the word English with Pakistanis in the following sentence:

'The English are inbred ****kers'.

Is that racist?

Yes, it is and you know why and that's why you asked it .

[hibsbollah]

How would you feel if he called them "inbred *******s" to their face. Maybe even shouted it at them?

I think you missed my sarcasm.

Apart from people from Kent (who have an interesting and provable history of limited gene pools causing birth defects) id say the English have a good record of ****ging people of all colours and creeds. If anything, the Scots have more of a problem with inbreeding. So hes talking baws on a number of levels :agree:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Looking forward to it already whether I get a ticket or not, should be a cheery wee jaunt.

[H18sry]

If Levein gets his way then it will be England v England's rejects.........

He won't be manager next August :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

I think you missed my sarcasm.

Apart from people from Kent (who have an interesting and provable history of limited gene pools causing birth defects) id say the English have a good record of ****ging people of all colours and creeds. If anything, the Scots have more of a problem with inbreeding. So hes talking baws on a number of levels :agree:

:greengrin

No, I got the sarcasm. I was mostly making the point for his benefit, not yours.

My wife's English too (not Kent!) and I won't take her near a pub if England are live on TV.

The hatred in this country is scary.

[Hibbyradge]

He won't be manager next August :wink:

I hope you're right, but I fear the country will unite behind him with an eye on the Wembley fixture.

[FromTheCapital]

If Levein goes then it should be a cracking match but if he doesn't then we are ****ed. :greengrin

[edinburghhibee]

:greengrin

No, I got the sarcasm. I was mostly making the point for his benefit, not yours.

My wife's English too (not Kent!) and I won't take her near a pub if England are live on TV.

The hatred in this country is scary.

With regards to your very last comment is it really that bad???

I'm not so sure, yeah you have the odd twat but I think most of the time it's just people not wanting their rivals to win.

If I'm watching England play I want the other team to pump them everytime and I'll shout at the telly and cheer when the other team score, just the same as if I was watching a rangers, Celtic or hearts game.

Once the games finished I couldn't care, think you are taking it the wrong way. But like I said I'm aware there are some idiots out there too, we also have them in our support!

[spike220]

Share the story then.:greengrin

The story is a bit cringe worthy, but you asked for it. My brother and I went to the last event at Wembley before they knocked it down. This event was a Bon Jovi Concert (check it out and see), as we were leaving we figured out we were the last crowd in the old stadium. So we set up some makeshift goals and had a wee game for 5mins, anyway with a sublime step-over I wrong footed my wee bro and scored the last goal before security shoved us out the door (with an empty can of 7up). We had a good laugh about it at the time.

[TrickyNicky]

The story is a bit cringe worthy, but you asked for it. My brother and I went to the last event at Wembley before they knocked it down. This event was a Bon Jovi Concert (check it out and see), as we were leaving we figured out we were the last crowd in the old stadium. So we set up some makeshift goals and had a wee game for 5mins before security shoved us out the door, anyway with a sublime step-over I wrong footed my wee bro and scored the last goal (with an empty can of 7up). We had a good laugh about it at the time.

:applause:

[H18sry]

I hope you're right, but I fear the country will unite behind him with an eye on the Wembley fixture.

If we don't get 6 points in the September games I think he will be booted. :agree:

[Beefster]

i have dreamed of going to a scotland england game all my ****ing life!
am only 16 and i have never experienced one yet.
bring it on you inbred *******s!!!!!!!

I remember being sixteen. I was a twat at that age too.

[Pretty Boy]

With regards to your very last comment is it really that bad???

I'm not so sure, yeah you have the odd twat but I think most of the time it's just people not wanting their rivals to win.

If I'm watching England play I want the other team to pump them everytime and I'll shout at the telly and cheer when the other team score, just the same as if I was watching a rangers, Celtic or hearts game.

Once the games finished I couldn't care, think you are taking it the wrong way. But like I said I'm aware there are some idiots out there too, we also have them in our support!

Whilst not wishing to answer on Radges behalf, I think he has a point.

My girlfriend is English and goes to quite a lot of games with me. Most Hibs fans, thankfully, are absolutely fine with her being English. Most of the comments revolve around 'you poor lassie, of all the Scottish teams you get Hibs' type thing. Harmless banter. There's been one or two folk passed stupid comments but, again thankfully, they were told to shut it by the majority quite quickly.

On the other hand I took her to the pub to watch the Scotland v Spain game and that was a pretty horrible experience. Whilst a few were again just up for a bit banter, sadly quite a few more seemed to delight in making her as uncomfortable as possible. One guy in particular wanted blood I think. Eventually we had to leave with about 20 minutes to go as it just got too much.

[marinello59]

[QUOTE=edinburghhibee;3265847]With regards to your very last comment is it really that bad???
/QUOTE]

I can't answer for the Radge. But in my experience, yes it is. I used to love this fixture. Now I would be happier if it was never played again.

[Hibbyradge]

With regards to your very last comment is it really that bad???



I suppose that depends on how much one thinks is acceptable.

I was in the Corstorphine Inn a few years ago with my wife. She's a quiet wee soul and wouldn't do anything to upset anyone. As I mentioned before, she's English, but she has no real interest in football.

The TV was showing a friendly between England and 'somebody'. As I remember it, 'somebody' had a near miss and a bloke in his 40's maybe, ran up to the screen with veins bursting out of his neck and forehead and shouted at the top of his voice, "Come on, 'somebody', get into these filthy English B's".

No-one complained. No-one said anything.

Apart from my wife who was very upset. Obviously, we left.

You should try telling her it's only football rivalry. Or rugby rivalry. Or cricket rivalry. Or any sport England play rivalry

What the guy did in itself was bad enough, but the fact that the other folk in the pub didn't blink an eye at it, made it apparent to me that such behaviour is tacitly condoned in Scotland.

That's pretty scary as far as I'm concerned.

Here's a wee bit research for you.

When England play Ukraine on Tuesday, pop into your local and watch folk's behaviour. I think you'll be surprised at the level of xenophobia that is accepted, if not encouraged.

Then ask a few folk why they hate the English and see how many say, "it's just rivalry".

Be careful who you ask though!

[Lost_Mackem]

Well you may want grow up a little first mate, my mother is English and a fair % of my family including my two nieces as my brother live in England now. I'll put your last comment down to your youth mate, lesson learned I hope?:wink:

Hope you can keep your rivalry more Hibs v Hearts than Celtic V Rangers on this one.

To the other bit of your quote, it's an amazing game, I remember the build up to Euro '96 and what a game that was although sadly we lost. We've held the bragging rights ever since our last encounter when we pumped them on their own patch even though we missed out 2-1 on agg after tht wee * Scholes scored twice at Hampden on the Saturday.


Looking forward to this one already:aok:

You hold the bragging rights?

It was the worst England performance of all time and we still won on aggregate, also an Englishman scored the only goal of the game!

There are no bragging rights, we're your cup final whereas we prefer to play other big teams like Germany or the Argies, not small teams who consider us there rival - but believe me, its not reciprocated.

[Frazerbob]

You hold the bragging rights?

It was the worst England performance of all time and we still won on aggregate, also an Englishman scored the only goal of the game!

There are no bragging rights, we're your cup final whereas we prefer to play other big teams like Germany or the Argies, not small teams who consider us there rival - but believe me, its not reciprocated.


Sounding very Jamboesque with the "you're not our rivals anymore" line. If that's the case why is every 2nd song the "Barmy Army" trot out having a dig at us Sweaties? With the other being inappropriate anti-German stuff!

[Lost_Mackem]

Sounding very Jamboesque with the "you're not our rivals anymore" line. If that's the case why is every 2nd song the "Barmy Army" trot out having a dig at us Sweaties? With the other being inappropriate anti-German stuff!

The only song about the Scotch I've heard English fans sing is "are you Scotland in disguise" and even thats only when we're playing similar nations to you... like Andorra.

I do disagree with the anti-German stuff though, very hypocritical considering our Anglo-Saxon identity.

[BoltonHibee]

The only song about the Scotch I've heard English fans sing is "are you Scotland in disguise" and even thats only when we're playing similar nations to you... like Andorra.

I do disagree with the anti-German stuff though, very hypocritical considering our Anglo-Saxon identity.

What a lot of *****.

I live in England and the hatred/ rivalry with Scotland is stronger than its ever been.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The only song about the Scotch I've heard English fans sing is "are you Scotland in disguise" and even thats only when we're playing similar nations to you... like Andorra.

I do disagree with the anti-German stuff though, very hypocritical considering our Anglo-Saxon identity.

Where do you buy your bait for your big fishing rod?

[Lost_Mackem]

What a lot of *****.

I live in England and the hatred/ rivalry with Scotland is stronger than its ever been.

There is no "hatred" as you put it.

Most English people are bemused and bewilidered by your obsession. I've seen Scots almost in tears begging for the other team to score when England are winning, its ****ing pathetic and small time. The pubs in Scotland are always packed when England are playing with fat hairy drunks all sporting a tattoo of Mel Gibson shouting anti-English bile because of wars that happened when the dinosaur's had just become extinct.

In England if Scotland are playing and its on tv, nobody cares, the channel gets changed.

[Hibs On Tour]

Numbnuts ****ers the majority of those cheering against England in the pubs IMHO. Remember me and a mate cheering England on against Argentina in the game Beckham got sent off in. Big lump of a guy pipes up 'haw, are you ****ing English?' clearly expecting me to back down. Easy retort back of 'are you ****ing Argentinian likes?' followed by 'we were at war with these ***** 10 years ago you ****ing muppet' soon put him in his place. I've got a Scottish mum from the islands and an English dad from the NE - bollocks if I'm going to sit there and take some uneducated muppet spouting pish like that. I've no problem with Scots cheering on Scotland when we're playing England but all this ABE ***** is just cringeworthy and makes us look like the small-minded tools that far too many Scots are...

Incidentally, to follow on to some of the other trivia posted earlier:
Last Englishman to score at the old Wembley was Don Hutchison for Scotland ;)
Last competitive goal scored at the old Wembley was by Dieter Hamann
Last goal for Engand scored at the old Wembley was by Tony Adams

And to any of those who still reckon we're 'in the same league' as England - go have a quick squint at the Fifa rankings. I know they're not perfect but they're not *that* far out are they? Games between the two tend to be fairly close because the type of play in the leagues of both countries is pretty much the same and ultimately it comes down to the traditional British affair of both teams being more scared of losing than wanting to win. Player for player they're streets ahead of us however, lets not kid ourselves.

[Frazerbob]

It's called sporting rivalry. For geographical and historical reasons, England are Scotland's rivals and I hope they lose every game they play. Exactly the same as Hearts being Hibs' rivals and I hope they lose every game they play. Unfortunately there are a lot of numpties who take things too far.....both with Scotland and Hibs and to be honest, in both cases it tends to be punters that don't regularly attend matches. Just because I want England to lose does not make me some kind of Neanderthal.

I love going on my Scotland trips. They are usually more fun than Hibs foreign trips. However I hate the Wembley trips. Far too many numpties who don't normally go to Scotland games jump on the train and cause havoc.

[Beefster]

The only song about the Scotch I've heard English fans sing is "are you Scotland in disguise" and even thats only when we're playing similar nations to you... like Andorra.

I do disagree with the anti-German stuff though, very hypocritical considering our Anglo-Saxon identity.

As far as I know, Scotch is an alcoholic drink. Not sure why England fans would sing about that.

[Pete]

Rubbish.

You're rubbish. And your breath smells.

[HH81]

You hold the bragging rights?

It was the worst England performance of all time and we still won on aggregate, also an Englishman scored the only goal of the game!

There are no bragging rights, we're your cup final whereas we prefer to play other big teams like Germany or the Argies, not small teams who consider us there rival - but believe me, its not reciprocated.

Geordie boy,

I was born in England but now your just talking rubbish. No point compairing England to Germany or Argies are they are a level above. Lets not get stupid. We both know they will lose Tuesday and be out...... Usual England :agree:

[DAVE1875]

We still have the better set of fans though :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

You hold the bragging rights?

It was the worst England performance of all time and we still won on aggregate, also an Englishman scored the only goal of the game!

There are no bragging rights, we're your cup final whereas we prefer to play other big teams like Germany or the Argies, not small teams who consider us there rival - but believe me, its not reciprocated.

...but with attitudes like yours, no wonder there are so many Scots praying you get pumped. 'other big teams like germany or argentina':hilarious: Dearie me.

[lord bunberry]

The story is a bit cringe worthy, but you asked for it. My brother and I went to the last event at Wembley before they knocked it down. This event was a Bon Jovi Concert (check it out and see), as we were leaving we figured out we were the last crowd in the old stadium. So we set up some makeshift goals and had a wee game for 5mins, anyway with a sublime step-over I wrong footed my wee bro and scored the last goal before security shoved us out the door (with an empty can of 7up). We had a good laugh about it at the time.

I'm reliably informed that your shot didn't cross the line

[Scouse Hibee]

You hold the bragging rights?

It was the worst England performance of all time and we still won on aggregate, also an Englishman scored the only goal of the game!

There are no bragging rights, we're your cup final whereas we prefer to play other big teams like Germany or the Argies, not small teams who consider us there rival - but believe me, its not reciprocated.

:faf: What a load of ****, a Mackem with a jambo mentality!

[Lost_Mackem]

Geordie boy,

I was born in England but now your just talking rubbish. No point compairing England to Germany or Argies are they are a level above. Lets not get stupid. We both know they will lose Tuesday and be out...... Usual England :agree:

Two World Wars and one World Cup.:na na:

[steakbake]

Two World Wars and one World Cup.:na na:

For the love of god...

[Dashing Bob S]

I think Lost Mackem is probably right. But the bigger issue is that none of the so-called home countries produce good footballers now. As England has a far bigger population, they can get away with bringing through more strong defenders, combative midfielders and pacy wingers than Scotland, Ireland or Wales. But arguably Rooney, Bale and possibly Hart, are the only genuinely world class players from these islands.

England are like an uninspiring mid-table premiership side, about Stoke City level, while Scotland, Wales and Ireland I'd say would be lower half of the championship, with NI about League One. I think England will continue to stagnate and decline, and are a long way off the real footballing powers of Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina. Any progress they make (and you can go a long way with fitness, organisation, physical strength and the will to win) will be regarded, in footballing terms, as similar to that made by the Greek side which had the same qualities two Euros ago. A one-off, but not a serious, regular top-table football nation - unless that table is a Subbuteo one.

[Eyrie]

Two World Wars and one World Cup.:na na:

Your claim that England has won World Wars is on a par with a Hearts fan claiming they won WW1. It was the United Kingdom and its allies that fought in both and it is disrespectful of you to pretend otherwise.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Don't take the bait, the guy will be loving it.

[Lost_Mackem]

Your claim that England has won World Wars is on a par with a Hearts fan claiming they won WW1. It was the United Kingdom and its allies that fought in both and it is disrespectful of you to pretend otherwise.

No, your right there and I apologise, the finest regiments in the British Army are arguably the Scottish ones.

[Nailrod]

i have dreamed of going to a scotland england game all my ****ing life!
am only 16 and i have never experienced one yet.
bring it on you inbred *******s!!!!!!!

I'd go easy on the dreaming if I were you. I was there last time this happened - at Hampden to celebrate the SFA centenary in 1973, at a time when we actually had international players that were worth talking about, and when games against England really, really mattered.

We got pumped 5-0.

[Posh Swanny]

We've held the bragging rights ever since our last encounter when we pumped them on their own patch

Like Real Madrid hold the bragging rights over Bayern Munich at the moment after the Champions League semi! :wink: I was there that night. It was horrible. :boo hoo:


I wonder how many tickets we'll get for this?

I think the "normal" away allocation at Wembley is 8,000 - and they're bloody good seats too! From the corner flag to the halfway line in the lower tier - back of the lower tier are probably the best seats in the house. Not sure if they'll come to a special arrangement to allow more away fans in for this one though.

This one is a must for anyone who hasn't been to the new Wembley yet. It's a ridiculous place - just don't sit by one of the entrance tunnels or you'll be bored by the time the 100th person comes into the stadium, looks up and says "********* hell!!". The atmosphere should really come alive for this one too. Competitive games against teams everyone expects us to beat 3-0 and friendlies against the big guns means it often struggles to get going, but for the odd big occasion like the two Croatia games and the Ukraine game it's been rocking.

I'll be doing my best to get a ticket - but may choose to travel down a day or two earlier than the hordes!

[Frazerbob]

Like Real Madrid hold the bragging rights over Bayern Munich at the moment after the Champions League semi! :wink: I was there that night. It was horrible. :boo hoo:



I think the "normal" away allocation at Wembley is 8,000 - and they're bloody good seats too! From the corner flag to the halfway line in the lower tier - back of the lower tier are probably the best seats in the house. Not sure if they'll come to a special arrangement to allow more away fans in for this one though.

This one is a must for anyone who hasn't been to the new Wembley yet. It's a ridiculous place - just don't sit by one of the entrance tunnels or you'll be bored by the time the 100th person comes into the stadium, looks up and says "********* hell!!". The atmosphere should really come alive for this one too. Competitive games against teams everyone expects us to beat 3-0 and friendlies against the big guns means it often struggles to get going, but for the odd big occasion like the two Croatia games and the Ukraine game it's been rocking.

I'll be doing my best to get a ticket - but may choose to travel down a day or two earlier than the hordes!

The old Wembley had a designated away section that held 8k but the new one has no defined segregation so the numbers vary. Belgium had around 5k whilst Ghana had 20k. I'd expect we'd get around 10k for this one, which will not be enough. We sold 12000 for the recent Brazil game in London through the SSC with several thousand more buying direct.

[Bristolhibby]

I have this debate down here all the time.

I want England to lose at every opportunity. Despite my wife being English and my kids hald English.

I simply explain that it is sporting rivalry.

I ask a Tottenham fan if he wants Arsenal to win the Champions league. No

I have asked Sheffield Utd fans if they want Wednesday to get promoted. No

I have asked West Ham fans if they want Chelsea to win the League. No

I say I would never want Hearts to do well in any competition.

So why would I suddenly want England to win the Euros?

Hate the English team, but clearly love the English.

J

[SaudiHibby]

The story is a bit cringe worthy, but you asked for it. My brother and I went to the last event at Wembley before they knocked it down. This event was a Bon Jovi Concert (check it out and see), as we were leaving we figured out we were the last crowd in the old stadium. So we set up some makeshift goals and had a wee game for 5mins, anyway with a sublime step-over I wrong footed my wee bro and scored the last goal before security shoved us out the door (with an empty can of 7up). We had a good laugh about it at the time.

Nice story but I think I was the last Scotsman to do a number of notable feats at the Old Wembley :wink:

[edinburghhibee]

I suppose that depends on how much one thinks is acceptable.

I was in the Corstorphine Inn a few years ago with my wife. She's a quiet wee soul and wouldn't do anything to upset anyone. As I mentioned before, she's English, but she has no real interest in football.

The TV was showing a friendly between England and 'somebody'. As I remember it, 'somebody' had a near miss and a bloke in his 40's maybe, ran up to the screen with veins bursting out of his neck and forehead and shouted at the top of his voice, "Come on, 'somebody', get into these filthy English B's".

No-one complained. No-one said anything.

Apart from my wife who was very upset. Obviously, we left.

You should try telling her it's only football rivalry. Or rugby rivalry. Or cricket rivalry. Or any sport England play rivalry

What the guy did in itself was bad enough, but the fact that the other folk in the pub didn't blink an eye at it, made it apparent to me that such behaviour is tacitly condoned in Scotland.

That's pretty scary as far as I'm concerned.

Here's a wee bit research for you.

When England play Ukraine on Tuesday, pop into your local and watch folk's behaviour. I think you'll be surprised at the level of xenophobia that is accepted, if not encouraged.

Then ask a few folk why they hate the English and see how many say, "it's just rivalry".

Be careful who you ask though!

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences and I think that's disgusting how your wife was treated but I think that says more about the pub and the locals in it than Scotland fans as a whole.

I'll be honest I watch almost all the England games out at bars because I like the excitement which is usually generated for their big games, I usually go to the three sisters or the chanter in bread street and I haven't ever seen or heard of anyone making a stupid comment about any nation and that person not been told to shut it.

However like I said there is always going to be a minority of complete tubes that ruins it for everyone. Hopefully you and your wife don't tar us all with the same brush.

[Ross4356]

I support Anyone But England and Anyone But Hearts, not racist just like to see the 2 teams get beat. I will however like to see English athletes do well in the Olympics. The football is just rivalry, nothing more.

[lyonhibs]

I have this debate down here all the time.

I want England to lose at every opportunity. Despite my wife being English and my kids hald English.

I simply explain that it is sporting rivalry.

I ask a Tottenham fan if he wants Arsenal to win the Champions league. No

I have asked Sheffield Utd fans if they want Wednesday to get promoted. No

I have asked West Ham fans if they want Chelsea to win the League. No

I say I would never want Hearts to do well in any competition.

So why would I suddenly want England to win the Euros?

Hate the English team, but clearly love the English.

J


This :agree:

Jingoists and numpties on either side of the border will whip it up into something more/political/sinister, but it's just a sporting rivalry.

How not wanting your nearest sporting neighbours to win a major tournament (note: I'd be quite happy for them to do pretty well in the Euros, if only to ram The Sun's pitiful headline back down their throats) is "bitter" or "small minded" is beyond me.

What is massively patronising is the English who come out with "Oh, I quite want Scotland to do well, I was really happy when you beat France a few years ago" etc etc.

That's like Usain Bolt looking at Tiny Tim from "A Christmas Carol" and going "go on wee man, sprint, you can do it". If Scotland weren't so *****, and were a serious challenge to England's position as the best national football team in the UK, I can bet all the gold in the BoE mint that there'd be a lot more Englishmen and women prepared to say what I think - and would frankly prefer them to think - they really feel deep down, that they don't want us to win any anything, ever.

[--------]

Two World Wars and one World Cup.:na na:


Well, you're English and just out of puberty, so I suppose we have to make allowances ...

I will tell you a story - a true one. England played Scotland at Hampden just before they left for Maxico to defend their World Cup.

Sir Alf Ramsey, a nasty, xenophobic, racist snob who took elocution lessons so he wouldn't sound 'common' and who preferred Nobby Stiles, Alan Ball and Roger Hunt to Jimmy Greaves Tommy Callaghan and Joe Baker, hated the Scots. He ddin't want to do a press conference after the game (which England won 1-0) but his bosses said he had to. So he sat there with a face the length of Leith Walk, giving one-word answers to the journalists and making it obvious he just wanted to be gone.

After a very short time he stood up and announced he was leaving. Not very courteous, but worse was to come. John Rafferty, the senior football writer for "Ther Scotsman" newspaper, and a thorough gentleman - the sort of journalist you don't meet very often these days, also stood.

"Sir Alf," said old John, "on behalf of everyone here, the Scottish Press and Scottish football, may I offer you and your England team all our sincere best wishes for your defence of the World Cup?"

(it was 1970, mind, and things were a wee bit different then.)

And the great Sir Alf looked at John as if he was dirt on the sole of his shoe, and answered, "You must be ****ing joking."

And walked out.

I cannot imagine Roy Hodgson doing that. I like the man, and I wish him well in the England job. I don't mind the English players - most of them, anyway - and I even know a number of English football supporters with whom I can discuss football in an intelligent and tolerant manner.

But "Two World Wars and one World Cup" is about as ignorant and arrogant a claim as any I know. In the First World War, Scottish, Irish and Empire battalions fighting on all fronts suffered on average a casualty rate of 25% of strength. English battalions on average suffered a casualty rate of 11-12% strength. This was because the 'colonial' battalions (i'd include Scots and Irish in there) regularly went over top first, as the shock troops. First in always catches it hottest.

I worked with a very dear friend who spent the five years 1940-45 in German POW camps. He was in the 51st (Highland) Division who were left behind at Dunkirk to cover the retreat of the rest of the British Army - the rest being mostly the English bit. They were forced to surrender at St Valery, and suffered five years of brutal mistreatment at the hands of their German captors. Jimmy died at 61, of respiratory problems that had their roots in his years as a POW.

The Little Englander mentality you demonstrate so clearly is why lots of Scots are hoping England fall apart at the Euros. I don't. Having grown up a little in the last few years, I remember that one of my great football heroes, Joe Baker, the finest centre-forward ever to play for Hibs, also played for England (he was born in Lancashire to Scots parents, but in those days you played for where you were born, period). And ignorant people in Scotland gave Joe a hrd time for this, calling him a 'turncoat' and a 'traitor' when there wasn't a thing he could do about it.

(Mind you, he should have played in 1966. He was ten times the player Roger Hunt was.)

I can't quite bring myself not to mind if England win the European Chamionship, but for Roy H's sake I hope they make the semi's and go out decently and with dignity then. But I'll need to be watching them on BBC, because the attitudes of people like Tyldesley and Townsend on ITV send me right up the wall.

That said, Hibbyradge's experience in the pub makes it very clear that the xenophobia and racism and sheer hatred of some (TBH, many?) Scots towards the England football team and by extension to English poeple, remians a real problem that isn't going to be solved by everyone saying, "Oh, it's just sporting rivalry."

It isn't.

[Scouse Hibee]

This :agree:

Jingoists and numpties on either side of the border will whip it up into something more/political/sinister, but it's just a sporting rivalry.

How not wanting your nearest sporting neighbours to win a major tournament (note: I'd be quite happy for them to do pretty well in the Euros, if only to ram The Sun's pitiful headline back down their throats) is "bitter" or "small minded" is beyond me.

What is massively patronising is the English who come out with "Oh, I quite want Scotland to do well, I was really happy when you beat France a few years ago" etc etc.

That's like Usain Bolt looking at Tiny Tim from "A Christmas Carol" and going "go on wee man, sprint, you can do it". If Scotland weren't so *****, and were a serious challenge to England's position as the best national football team in the UK, I can bet all the gold in the BoE mint that there'd be a lot more Englishmen and women prepared to say what I think - and would frankly prefer them to think - they really feel deep down, that they don't want us to win any anything, ever.

Nonsense, plenty of English folk couldn't give a toss about rivalry and are happy to see another British team do well just like plenty of Scots do. I really can't see why people find this so hard to understand.

[marinello59]

Nonsense, plenty of English folk couldn't give a toss about rivalry and are happy to see another British team do well just like plenty of Scots do. I really can't see why people find this so hard to understand.

I would agree with that. It's not done in a patronising way either, they genuinely want to see all British teams do well including Scotland.

[Pretty Boy]

I would agree with that. It's not done in a patronising way either, they genuinely want to see all British teams do well including Scotland.

I would agree with that as well.

Probably because, in my experience, the English seem far more comfortable with their 'Britishness' than us Scots.

[lyonhibs]

Nonsense, plenty of English folk couldn't give a toss about rivalry and are happy to see another British team do well just like plenty of Scots do. I really can't see why people find this so hard to understand.

I meant that I find it to be massively patronising, not that they are necessarily being intentionally patronising.

Chip on shoulder readily acknowledged :greengrin

[Scouse Hibee]

I meant that I find it to be massively patronising, not that they are necessarily being intentionally patronising.

Chip on shoulder readily acknowledged :greengrin

Stop patronising me :greengrin :wink:

[lyonhibs]

Stop patronising me :greengrin :wink:

Calm down dear :greengrin

I would stand by the crux onf my point, which was - if the other British nations were stronger football sides and more of a threat to England's position as top dog in these islands, there'd be a lot less of this - doubtless genuine and well intentioned - support for "other British sides" from England fans. Unless you're saying that England fans are inherently tuned to rise above rivalry in all circumstances, which I think we both know would be a cobblers statement to make.

[Scouse Hibee]

Calm down dear :greengrin

I would stand by the crux onf my point, which was - if the other British nations were stronger football sides and more of a threat to England's position as top dog in these islands, there'd be a lot less of this - doubtless genuine and well intentioned - support for "other British sides" from England fans. Unless you're saying that England fans are inherently tuned to rise above rivalry in all circumstances, which I think we both know would be a cobblers statement to make.

Hmmm not sure about the position of "top dog" as you call it being the reason. As I said many British folk are in my opinion quite happy to see other British teams do well, more so when their home nation hasn't actually made it to a finals of Euro's, World Cup etc. There is the suggestion that maybe English folk are more happy to be thought of as British than other nations but again not sure if that's the case. I for one would never support a foreign team in a game against a British team despite the rivalry and banter I enjoy between the home nations.

[Lost_Mackem]

Well, you're English and just out of puberty, so I suppose we have to make allowances ...

I will tell you a story - a true one. England played Scotland at Hampden just before they left for Maxico to defend their World Cup.

Sir Alf Ramsey, a nasty, xenophobic, racist snob who took elocution lessons so he wouldn't sound 'common' and who preferred Nobby Stiles, Alan Ball and Roger Hunt to Jimmy Greaves Tommy Callaghan and Joe Baker, hated the Scots. He ddin't want to do a press conference after the game (which England won 1-0) but his bosses said he had to. So he sat there with a face the length of Leith Walk, giving one-word answers to the journalists and making it obvious he just wanted to be gone.

After a very short time he stood up and announced he was leaving. Not very courteous, but worse was to come. John Rafferty, the senior football writer for "Ther Scotsman" newspaper, and a thorough gentleman - the sort of journalist you don't meet very often these days, also stood.

"Sir Alf," said old John, "on behalf of everyone here, the Scottish Press and Scottish football, may I offer you and your England team all our sincere best wishes for your defence of the World Cup?"

(it was 1970, mind, and things were a wee bit different then.)

And the great Sir Alf looked at John as if he was dirt on the sole of his shoe, and answered, "You must be ****ing joking."

And walked out.

I cannot imagine Roy Hodgson doing that. I like the man, and I wish him well in the England job. I don't mind the English players - most of them, anyway - and I even know a number of English football supporters with whom I can discuss football in an intelligent and tolerant manner.

But "Two World Wars and one World Cup" is about as ignorant and arrogant a claim as any I know. In the First World War, Scottish, Irish and Empire battalions fighting on all fronts suffered on average a casualty rate of 25% of strength. English battalions on average suffered a casualty rate of 11-12% strength. This was because the 'colonial' battalions (i'd include Scots and Irish in there) regularly went over top first, as the shock troops. First in always catches it hottest.

I worked with a very dear friend who spent the five years 1940-45 in German POW camps. He was in the 51st (Highland) Division who were left behind at Dunkirk to cover the retreat of the rest of the British Army - the rest being mostly the English bit. They were forced to surrender at St Valery, and suffered five years of brutal mistreatment at the hands of their German captors. Jimmy died at 61, of respiratory problems that had their roots in his years as a POW.

The Little Englander mentality you demonstrate so clearly is why lots of Scots are hoping England fall apart at the Euros. I don't. Having grown up a little in the last few years, I remember that one of my great football heroes, Joe Baker, the finest centre-forward ever to play for Hibs, also played for England (he was born in Lancashire to Scots parents, but in those days you played for where you were born, period). And ignorant people in Scotland gave Joe a hrd time for this, calling him a 'turncoat' and a 'traitor' when there wasn't a thing he could do about it.

(Mind you, he should have played in 1966. He was ten times the player Roger Hunt was.)

I can't quite bring myself not to mind if England win the European Chamionship, but for Roy H's sake I hope they make the semi's and go out decently and with dignity then. But I'll need to be watching them on BBC, because the attitudes of people like Tyldesley and Townsend on ITV send me right up the wall.

That said, Hibbyradge's experience in the pub makes it very clear that the xenophobia and racism and sheer hatred of some (TBH, many?) Scots towards the England football team and by extension to English poeple, remians a real problem that isn't going to be solved by everyone saying, "Oh, it's just sporting rivalry."

It isn't.

A good and well thought out post.

You made the point about the casualty rates amongst the Scottish/Irish regiments in the army during the First World War and compared it to the English regiments. All well and good saying that you suffered a higher casualty rate but the fact is that the vast majority of soldiers in the army during the wars were Englishmen, and that is simply down to the fact that there are more English people than Scottish people, more English soldiers died in the wars than Scottish soldiers.

You made the point about Scots being forced to go over the top first, this is because the Scots were very fierce in battle and "The Highland Charge" put the ****s up the Germans on many an occasion. However, to try to make out that the Scots were just cannon fodder during the war while the English sat back in their trenches and had a cups of tea is slanderous. The (mostly) English divisions (The Manchesters, Middlesex, Northumberland Fusiliers etc...) regiments that went over the top on the first day of the Somme were virtually wiped out, 60,000 casualties and 20,000 dead on the first day alone.

I appreciate many Scots hate the English for wars that happened nearly 1000 years ago, but the nations have been in union for over 300 years now and have stood steadfast through the days of the Empire and then through two World Wars, this is why I can't get my head around the hatred that is spewed (mostly) from the Celtic fringe.

[--------]

A good and well thought out post.

You made the point about the casualty rates amongst the Scottish/Irish regiments in the army during the First World War and compared it to the English regiments. All well and good saying that you suffered a higher casualty rate but the fact is that the vast majority of soldiers in the army during the wars were Englishmen, and that is simply down to the fact that there are more English people than Scottish people, more English soldiers died in the wars than Scottish soldiers.

You made the point about Scots being forced to go over the top first, this is because the Scots were very fierce in battle and "The Highland Charge" put the ****s up the Germans on many an occasion. However, to try to make out that the Scots were just cannon fodder during the war while the English sat back in their trenches and had a cups of tea is slanderous. The (mostly) English divisions (The Manchesters, Middlesex, Northumberland Fusiliers etc...) regiments that went over the top on the first day of the Somme were virtually wiped out, 60,000 casualties and 20,000 dead on the first day alone.

I appreciate many Scots hate the English for wars that happened nearly 1000 years ago, but the nations have been in union for over 300 years now and have stood steadfast through the days of the Empire and then through two World Wars, this is why I can't get my head around the hatred that is spewed (mostly) from the Celtic fringe.


The 'Highland Charge' was an utter non-starter in the conditions pertaining to the Western Front in the Great War. Nobody could 'charge' across no-man's-land in the mud and through the barbed wire and shell-holes. And I didn't suggest that the Scots or any other troops were 'forced' to go over the top first - the orders came down to battalion, and the orders were obeyed. That's how it worked -

Nor did I suggest that the English regiments weren't involved in the fighting or that they didn't suffer appalling losses - 11-12% over the entire four and a half years of the war is a dreadful loss rate. Maybe what I should have said is that the lead battalions in any attack, regardless of who they happened to be, consistently suffered much higher casualties than those following them. But I stand by what I said - the Scots, Irish and Empire troops supplied a disproportionately large contingent of those lead battalions over the whole war.

Over the duration of the war, taking all fronts and engagements into account, the Scots, Irish and Empire battalions suffered a casualty rate twice that of the English battalions who fought alongside them. This was because of how they were deployed and used - as shock troops and as rallying forces to shore up areas of an attack where the attack was faltering. It's in the literature; it's in the regimental histories. The figures may be slightly weighted by the appalling casualties suffered by the ANZACs at the Dardanelles, but the stats are there in the casualty lists and regimental records.

Unless, of course, the Scots, Irish and ANZACs just weren't as good soldiers as the other battalions?

Oh, and of the 32 battalions engaged on 1st July 1916 that suffered more than 500 casualties, 11 were Scots, Irish or Empire battalions. Those 11 battalions included the 1st and 4th Tyneside Scottish, the 1st Tyneside Irish, and the 1st London Scottish, but those battalions were almost entirely made up of expatriate Scots and Irish living and working in England. The 1st and 11th Battalions of the Border Regiment are also among the 32 - those battalions also contained a higher than average proportion of Scottish soldiers. You'll find that list at the back (Appendix 5) of Martin Middlebrook's "The First Day on the Somme". You'll also find the complete British Order of Battle for that attack. The truth is that EVERY British Army battalion involved that day suffered heavy casualties.

(And Middlebrook's Appendix 4 lists the 9 VCs awarded on 1/7/16 - 4 Irish, 2 Scots, and 3 English.)

The vast majority of those battalions were New Army - the volunteers of 1915 who were being 'blooded' for the first time at the Somme. It's also worth remembering that the French had been fully engaged in the defence of Verdun since the 21st of February and the Somme offensive was intended at least in part to relieve German pressure on them.

[Scouse Hibee]

the 'highland charge' was an utter non-starter in the conditions pertaining to the western front in the great war. Nobody could 'charge' across no-man's-land in the mud and through the barbed wire and shell-holes. And i didn't suggest that the scots or any other troops were 'forced' to go over the top first - the orders came down to battalion, and the orders were obeyed. That's how it worked -

nor did i suggest that the english regiments weren't involved in the fighting or that they didn't suffer appalling losses - 11-12% over the entire four and a half years of the war is a dreadful loss rate. Maybe what i should have said is that the lead battalions in any attack, regardless of who they happened to be, consistently suffered much higher casualties than those following them. But i stand by what i said - the scots, irish and empire troops supplied a disproportionately large contingent of those lead battalions over the whole war.

Over the duration of the war, taking all fronts and engagements into account, the scots, irish and empire battalions suffered a casualty rate twice that of the english battalions who fought alongside them. This was because of how they were deployed and used - as shock troops and as rallying forces to shore up areas of an attack where the attack was faltering. It's in the literature; it's in the regimental histories. The figures may be slightly weighted by the appalling casualties suffered by the anzacs at the dardanelles, but the stats are there in the casualty lists and regimental records.

Unless, of course, the scots, irish and anzacs just weren't as good soldiers as the other battalions?

Oh, and of the 32 battalions engaged on 1st july 1916 that suffered more than 500 casualties, 11 were scots, irish or empire battalions. Those 11 battalions included the 1st and 4th tyneside scottish, the 1st tyneside irish, and the 1st london scottish, but those battalions were almost entirely made up of expatriate scots and irish living and working in england. The 1st and 11th battalions of the border regiment are also among the 32 - those battalions also contained a higher than average proportion of scottish soldiers. You'll find that list at the back (appendix 5) of martin middlebrook's "the first day on the somme". You'll also find the complete british order of battle for that attack. The truth is that every british army battalion involved that day suffered heavy casualties.

(and middlebrook's appendix 4 lists the 9 vcs awarded on 1/7/16 - 4 irish, 2 scots, and 3 english.)

the vast majority of those battalions were new army - the volunteers of 1915 who were being 'blooded' for the first time at the somme. It's also worth remembering that the french had been fully engaged in the defence of verdun since the 21st of february and the somme offensive was intended at least in part to relieve german pressure on them.

wtf!

[VickMackie]

wtf!

I've been enjoying this thread today and got to the end of that somber post and yours just made me :lol: for about 20 seconds!

[Pete]

I've been enjoying this thread today and got to the end of that somber post and yours just made me :lol: for about 20 seconds!

I found it extremely disrespectful.

The man shares his personal experiences of the war and that's how he reacts!

[VickMackie]

I found it extremely disrespectful.

The man shares his personal experiences of the war and that's how he reacts!

I'm guessing it wasn't intended as a sleight on Doddie.

After all this started about the game and has turned into world wars. I just found the reaction amusing despite some great posts from Doddie and others.

[Scouse Hibee]

I'm guessing it wasn't intended as a sleight on Doddie.

After all this started about the game and has turned into world wars. I just found the reaction amusing despite some great posts from Doddie and others.

It wasn't meant to be disrespectful to Doddie at all and I sincerely apologise if it came across that way. It was as you said a reaction to reading the thread which started about the game and then finding these massive posts about world wars which if I'm honest I never actually read in detail and did not realise Doddie was sharing personal experiences.

[TrickyNicky]

It wasn't meant to be disrespectful to Doddie at all and I sincerely apologise if it came across that way. It was as you said a reaction to reading the thread which started about the game and then finding these massive posts about world wars which if I'm honest I never actually read in detail and did not realise Doddie was sharing personal experiences.


You Bibliophobe! :greengrin