Euro 2012 racism issues (merged)

[Hibbyradge]

I do understand why this is being shown, but my worry is that some imbeciles in this country will try to copy these horrible people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18192375

[The_Todd]

So the fans admit it's a Nazi salute but the local police try and cover up for them:


"But local police chief Colonel Volodymyr Kovrygin denied that it was a Nazi-inspired salute, saying the fans were "pointing in the direction of opponents as it were, the fans, so it looked like they were pointing with the right hand to the fans, kind of attracting attention to themselves."

Sounds like something I'd expect from the other end of the M8.

[CMac1988]

I do understand why this is being shown, but my worry is that some imbeciles in this country will try to copy these horrible people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18192375

This and the programme on Sky Sports News last week (2 weeks a go?) might shed a little light on what to expect and what to avoid when travelling fans are over there, but I also fear that they may also entice troublsome supporters and fire them up even more.

[Billy Whizz]

Anyone who went to Dnipro will understand what they are likely. In the town centre they couldn't have been nicer, in the stadium they went crazy, although I won't tarnish them all with the same brush

[ScottB]

I must be mad for expecting Poland, of all countries, to know better.

Sol is right on the money, never should have went to them. Us and Ireland or Wales would have been a better choice, to host a tournament in countries where our government advises against travel if you aren't white is an utter nonsense.

[JimBHibees]

I must be mad for expecting Poland, of all countries, to know better.

Sol is right on the money, never should have went to them. Us and Ireland or Wales would have been a better choice, to host a tournament in countries where our government advises against travel if you aren't white is an utter nonsense.

Nail on the nead. Complete nonsense and wouldnt be surprised if there is quite a lot of racist abuse in the tournament which no doubt the Authorities will brush under the carpet. France and England in Ukraine's group makes this more likely IMO, hope not but wouldnt be surprised. UEFA themselves set the precedent for inaction by doing nothing about that Spain England friendly a few years back in Madrid when the Black English players were targetted heavily. Spain should IMO have been hammered but some paltry fine was given.

[PeeJay]

Nail on the nead. Complete nonsense and wouldnt be surprised if there is quite a lot of racist abuse in the tournament which no doubt the Authorities will brush under the carpet. France and England in Ukraine's group makes this more likely IMO, hope not but wouldnt be surprised. UEFA themselves set the precedent for inaction by doing nothing about that Spain England friendly a few years back in Madrid when the Black English players were targetted heavily. Spain should IMO have been hammered but some paltry fine was given.

Not convinced that this is a white / black issue: it's simply racist - German fans have also been warned to expect trouble. Seems Polish hooligans are looking forward to extracting "revenge".

Apparently this is not going to be a problem in the stadiums, but anywhere outside and any German fans are supposedly fair game...any other fans too, I suppose?

... still it's not as if we were not aware of the problems in these two countries - it will be interesting to see how the authorities handle this and how safe the fans really will be.

[Bristolhibby]

My mate was in Ukraine for the Scotland game a few years ago, he has a black mate who goes with him to the Scotland game and he says he had some of the most sickening racial abuse hurled at him from day one of the tour.

That was IIRC the only place where the Tartan Army have been attacked and jumped by a mob of about 2000 Kiev skin heads.

It's going to be carnage.

J

[blackpoolhibs]

Just saw a bit of tonights programme on the 1 O'clock news, and its very graphic in what they show. Lots of sieg heils and when they have nobody to fight, they attacked asians in their own support. Shocking scenes that did not seem to be stopped by the police?

[ekhibee]

When I first heard these 2 countries had been awarded the 2012 Euro Championship years ago I said straight away at the time that it was an appauling decision, and surprise surprise, the authorities appear to have done next to nothing to stop the racist problems. This tournament, which should always be one of the most entertaining spectacles in world football, could end up being an absolute disaster.

[The_Exile]

Pal of mine worked over there for a while and followed Wislaw Krakow, and at the time the decision was announced for the hosts, he said it was possible the competition would need to be completed in another country, it would be THAT bad.

Players should just walk off the pitch if getting abuse like that, there's no other way it'll get the recognition it deserves. I fully expect there to be a very heavy police presence at the host nation games though and any racist behaviour will be dealt with fairly swiftly before it's able to make headlines.

[ekhibee]

If you watch the programme tonight it'll show exactly what the police did- **** all. Indeed, they said there had never been racist problems at these football matches. There's a clip on the BBC Sport website (not BBC Scotland ) of a small group of asian students who went to watch a game and were attacked. I know that if I was of ethnic origin there is no way in a million years I would go to this tournament, and UEFA should be ashamed that they are letting one of the biggest tournaments in the world take place there, where Nazis will get an open forum to express there racist views live on tv in front of millions of viewers.

[blackpoolhibs]

If you watch the programme tonight it'll show exactly what the police did- **** all. Indeed, they said there had never been racist problems at these football matches. There's a clip on the BBC Sport website (not BBC Scotland ) of a small group of asian students who went to watch a game and were attacked. I know that if I was of ethnic origin there is no way in a million years I would go to this tournament, and UEFA should be ashamed that they are letting one of the biggest tournaments in the world take place there, where Nazis will get an open forum to express there racist views live on tv in front of millions of viewers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18192375

This is only a little bit of what they showed earlier at 1pm.

[bawheid]

With Russia to host the World Cup in 2018, expect more of the same.

And if you're gay? Maybe not bother with the 2022 World Cup in Qatar....

[hibsbollah]

The more time ive spent with Russians and East Europeans over the years, the more obvious it is that even the intelligent and well-educated among them are much more prone to the kind of racism that most western europeans would find shocking and unbelievable. (and i realise that by saying this i myself am generalising and stereotyping as well :greengrin).


Its just very very prevalent in post-communist societies.

[StevieC]

The more time ive spent with Russians and East Europeans over the years, the more obvious it is that even the intelligent and well-educated among them are much more prone to the kind of racism that most western europeans would find shocking and unbelievable. (and i realise that by saying this i myself am generalising and stereotyping as well :greengrin).


Its just very very prevalent in post-communist societies.

I know from experience that racism is rife, and it will take years and years of education to change it.

Hibsbollah is correct about it being an post communism eastern European issue that isn't going to be solved overnight, or even over the course of one football tournament. Politically these countries, especially Ukraine, are a mess and there are far bigger issues needing attention before they start to concern themselves with racism.

I have a friend in Ukraine that used to have pretty racist views but he has managed to change, mainly due to an introduction to Northern Soul music that he now enjoys with a passion. He's just one person though, and we are talking about whole nations here.

Before we get too high and mighty about it though, we had the same issues barely 2 generations ago .. and we still have major sectarian issues.

Please remember that this doesn't mean that Ukrainians/Polish are bad people, they aren't (and many will confirm this), they simply need educated on the matter.

[yeezus.]

Just saw the news report previewing panorama tonight.

This is disgusting. I think Campbell has a point when he says that this problem should have been addressed before Ukraine and Poland were chosen to host the tournament.

[leither17]

These fans are all loopy going to be carnage at the euros

[VickMackie]

Crazy.

Astonishing that they could put that down to pointing to the other fans.

The black guy who made the monkey noise to mock them was good.

[Pretty Boy]

I'd call these ***** animals but animals wouldn't behave in such a way.

Zero tolerance my erse.

[Betty Boop]

Sickened to the pit of my stomach, watching that. Vile excuses for human beings.

[leithsansiro]

With Russia to host the World Cup in 2018, expect more of the same.

And if you're gay? Maybe not bother with the 2022 World Cup in Qatar....


Spot on. Football authorities are seemingly blinded to the massive moral blunders they are making. Sadly, I think Euro 2012 is going to just be a shop window for idiots acting with racist stupidity.

Being honest, I still find it slightly surprising that this sort of thing goes on and is indeed tolerated in some nations. That said, the paltry fines UEFA etc hand out to nations and footballing bodies for the conduct of their following make it hardly surprising that it's not clamped down on. A whole lot of countries and clubs should be rapidly finding themselves expelled or playing behind closed doors if UEFA want to actually have any impact.

To mis-paraphrase Margaret Thatcher, we don't want your hooligans at our football matches

[hibsbollah]

They learnt it from us. A bit like shipbuilding.

[Sylar]

Wasn't anything new or particularly shocking, which is perhaps the worst thing. The BBC are obviously just showing what they've witness and what they're allowed to broadcast pre 9pm, but that was merely a taster.

Danny Dyer is an erse and the entire notion of the "Real Football Factories" show is quite pathetic (almost glorifying the nature of hooliganism) but some of the footage from these programmes when they filmed in Poland and a few other countries in the Eastern Bloc and into the Balkans was properly astonishing.

UEFA are going to have blood on their hands at the end of this competition. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if there are mass riots, serious assaults and perish the thought, worse...

I hope some of the idiots who follow England (not singling them out, but from previous competitions, we've seen that there's a group of the English fans who love a rammy, further supported by an increase in casuals/violence at games recently - I don't know about other nations) don't try and get involved in anything, as by some of the comments from the "Ukrainian Patriots" suggest they're not afraid to kill (though bravado in front of the camera, combined with anonymity might play a role).

[Gala Foxes]

In Dnipro in 2005 the local supporters seemed to be modeling themselves on mid 80s UK casuals - the other Dnipro people and genuine supporters were fine

[Sir David Gray]

Not easily shocked but the footage near the end of the programme of the Metalist Kharkiv fans going on the rampage and then assaulting fans in their own section, because they were Asian, was absolutely shocking.

I wouldn't be going anywhere near Poland or Ukraine over the next month. As Sol Campbell pointed out, it's very possible that you could be coming back home in a wooden box.

[PISTOL1875]

Wait until the World cup goes to Russia and the African teams turn up..

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Metalist fans kicking seven bells out their own Asian student supporters, cause they're bored and had no one else to batter.
I didn't realise Ukrainie was as racist as Poland. Hellish place to be if your not white this summer.
these countries are going backwards.....and at some pace! It's not minorities either inside these stadiums.

[leithsansiro]

As a slight note of optimism with regards the Euros, hopefully loads of these racist idiots will find the tickets are outpriced and taken up by corporate sponsors. Fingers crossed...

[Sylar]

As a slight note of optimism with regards the Euros, hopefully loads of these racist idiots will find the tickets are outpriced and taken up by corporate sponsors. Fingers crossed...

Not sure it will solve anything if they don't get into the games.

It's outside on the streets where most trouble is likely to take place!

[Hibernia Na Eir]

As a slight note of optimism with regards the Euros, hopefully loads of these racist idiots will find the tickets are outpriced and taken up by corporate sponsors. Fingers crossed...

It's the unsuspecting tourists in the bars and supporters areas that'll get an unsuspecting battering. These guys are seriously unstable and seem hell bent on serious violence. You'd have to imagine Ukraine v England has all the makings of a war zone.

[vercol36]

Was THAT it? A week's worth of hype and it only lasted half an hour?

[leithsansiro]

Not sure it will solve anything if they don't get into the games.

It's outside on the streets where most trouble is likely to take place!

Sadly, that's probably a fair point

[WHAM]

It's the unsuspecting tourists in the bars and supporters areas that'll get an unsuspecting battering. These guys are seriously unstable and seem hell bent on serious violence. You'd have to imagine Ukraine v England has all the makings of a war zone.

Dangerous place to be for English fans this summer. With the reputation and baggage that they carry...and with almost all fans that are likely to cause bother on banning orders from travelling abroad...the 5000 or so "normal" fans that are expected to travel will be sitting ducks.

[DH1875]

Dangerous place to be for English fans this summer. With the reputation and baggage that they carry...and with almost all fans that are likely to cause bother on banning orders from travelling abroad...the 5000 or so "normal" fans that are expected to travel will be sitting ducks.


Forget the English. Wait till the German and Dutch boys rock up to the place. I'm sure their game is in the stadium where the Asian guy's were attacked by their own support.

[Hibrandenburg]

What irritated me the most was the widespread use of the celtic cross as a facist symbol. WTF is that all about?

[Halifaxhibby]

I do understand why this is being shown, but my worry is that some imbeciles in this country will try to copy these horrible people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18192375

really can't get my head round this, how confused are the poles? lots of them supporting an ideaology that nearly wiped there country off the planet!! mind you, some of the history taught in polish schools these days barely mentions britains role. Crazy!

[Sir David Gray]

What irritated me the most was the widespread use of the celtic cross as a facist symbol. WTF is that all about?

It's a widespread symbol for white pride and other far right groups.

[Hibrandenburg]

It's a widespread symbol for white pride and other far right groups.

But unrightly so, or am I missing something? Always thought that the celtic cross was a symbol of protest against the christian church at that time.

[Hibercelona]

Considering nothing is really ever done about racism in the international game, it makes you wonder how many people at the top are most likely racists themselves.

Surely if they thought it was so wrong, they would have taken drastic measures to stamp this nonsense out long ago.

But its like they're just not bothered and don't really mind if the racial hatred continues.

[jgl07]

What irritated me the most was the widespread use of the celtic cross as a facist symbol. WTF is that all about?

The KKK have used it for years.

[1875godsgift]

Considering nothing is really ever done about racism in the international game, it makes you wonder how many people at the top are most likely racists themselves.

Surely if they thought it was so wrong, they would have taken drastic measures to stamp this nonsense out long ago.

But its like they're just not bothered and don't really mind if the racial hatred continues.

Substitute racism with sectarianism and I think we can find a parallel a lot closer to home.

[Frazerbob]

My mate was in Ukraine for the Scotland game a few years ago, he has a black mate who goes with him to the Scotland game and he says he had some of the most sickening racial abuse hurled at him from day one of the tour.

That was IIRC the only place where the Tartan Army have been attacked and jumped by a mob of about 2000 Kiev skin heads.

It's going to be carnage.

J

I was there also and you are slightly wide of the mark. The locals who attacked the TA in the main square numbered around 100 and were regular fans, not skin heads. At least not your stereo typical skin heads. Although they probably shared the same racist views. It was still quite shocking and totally unprovoked.

http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/mama-always-said-to-never-trust-a-man-who-wears-a-skirt.html

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Forget the English. Wait till the German and Dutch boys rock up to the place. I'm sure their game is in the stadium where the Asian guy's were attacked by their own support.

aye, both Germany and Netherlands are to play at Metalist stadium. it'll be the surrounding streets that are wild.
I'm sure I read somewhere that Hearts could draw Metalist in Europa cup qualifier?

[Geo_1875]

aye, both Germany and Netherlands are to play at Metalist stadium. it'll be the surrounding streets that are wild.
I'm sure I read somewhere that Hearts could draw Metalist in Europa cup qualifier?

That'll be Metalist against the Mentalists then.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I suppose the scenes in the programme shouldnt be that much of a surprise, given that for years any black players heading anywhere east of Germany have been subjected to this sort of stuff.

It does bring into focus UEFA's apparent decision to turn a blind eye to it in awarding the tournament to two of the worst offenders. There was an impression given that they are trying to address the problem prior to the finals .... but its like using a pea shooter against an Elephant if you ask me.

The anti semitic stuff in Krakow was just unbelievable given that the city is about an hours bus ride from Auschwitz, have these idiots learned nothing ?

In my job I used to interview foreign nationals coming into the UK. I once interviewed a Lithuanian and mentioned the fact that Hearts owner was Lithuanian. The guy screwed up his face and said " is not Lithuanian, is Jew "

The other thing is that the Police, certainly in Ukraine, dont seem to give a toss ....... I wouldnt go near either country with a good suntan, never mind if I was black or asian.

Its jost too sad and I hate football being the focus for these moronic and backward people.

[Pretty Boy]

Just as a flip side one of my best mates, an Indian brought up in Poland posted this on his Facebook page last night:

'Just watched the BBC documentary on Poland and Ukraine. Whilst it made uncomfortable viewing I was unhappy at what appeared to be an attempt to use a minority to brand an entire.country as racists. Football games are violent and have sections of racists. I.lived in the uk for 5 years and was verbally abused at least a dozen times and physically attacked once. I have never been physically attacked in Poland. My experience was that racism was more visible towards me day to day in the UK than Poland. I have tickets for 2 of polands games in the euros and intend to use them.'

[Lucius Apuleius]

Just as an aside, I have a programme in the house Stirling Albion v Kharkov Mettalists. Must have been mid sixties, They were on a pre season UK tour. Sticks in my mind as I think it was the first foreign team I had seen (except celtc obviously):greengrin

[down-the-slope]

I am not as shocked by this as most seem to be (don't read that as condoning it)

As Stevie C says you have to remember that these are countries more akin to the UK in the 70's - high unemployment, the failure of large nationalised industries. A realisation of consumerism with no prospect of large parts of the youth population acheiving their aspirations (if they have any)
Remember a large chunk of Skinhead culture was like this with young white youth targeting black & asian as being the reason for their problems.

Most of the big clubs were in fact the 'factory' team of old from the ship yard / steel mill of communist times - now their is massive wealth being made by a few from these resourses and little filtering down to the poor general population...they can look and see black brazilians coming and being paid huge sums...and the resentments build.

It a pattern that has been repeated the world over in different ways

Remind me...how long ago did Justin Fashanu get abused for his colour and sexuality in our perfect country :rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

Sorry Slopey but the hooligans last night didnt target the asian fans for brutal beatings because they resented the 'huge sums paid to black brazilians'. They did it because they are steeped in violent racist ideology. The situation over there is far worse than we have ever seen in this country. Personal experience tells me theres something inherent in these societies that goes beyond economics.

[.Sean.]

Was there trouble when Hibs played in Ukraine?

[cwilliamson85]

Just watched it on iplayer and nothing really new from what I know already.

They have history of troubles with both clubs and countries and I am with Sol in saying Stay at home and watch it on TV!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Was there trouble when Hibs played in Ukraine?

A couple of bellends came into the square in Dnipro shouting stuff, about 10 mins later when they realised they were not getting any attention they just mingled into the crowd and started bevvying like the rest of us. Apart from the incident in the square in Kiev and the nutters attacking the TA march to the stadium I really liked Ukraine and wouldn't hesitate to return.

[Yuillsy]

On a side note not football related but me and a bunch of mates went to Krakow for a stag weekend about 3 years ago.
We had a good time but 1 night was completely ruined when a couple of Polish skinheads took exception to our kilts.
2 of my mates were completely knocked out cold. The rest of us managed to get them picked up and clear out of the area.
A local who'd seen and heard what happened explained that the thugs were sure we were gay because we were wearing skirts!
I pity anyone going over to support a football team with these uneducated psycho's walking about.

[Yuillsy]

On a side note not football related but me and a bunch of mates went to Krakow for a stag weekend about 3 years ago.
We had a good time but 1 night was completely ruined when a couple of Polish skinheads took exception to our kilts.
2 of my mates were completely knocked out cold. The rest of us managed to get them picked up and clear out of the area.
A local who'd seen and heard what happened explained that the thugs were sure we were gay because we were wearing skirts!
I pity anyone going over to support a football team with these uneducated psycho's walking about.
Whoops, just checked and there's no games in Krakow.
You get the jist though and if these folk connect themselves to football and travel to games it could be nasty!!!

[Speedway]

If an asian student went to one of those games and concealed a gun of some sort about his person, watched the game peacefully until he was set upon by the racists and opened fire on his attackers only; would you condone or condemn his actions?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Dearie me!

[--------]

Sorry Slopey but the hooligans last night didnt target the asian fans for brutal beatings because they resented the 'huge sums paid to black brazilians'. They did it because they are steeped in violent racist ideology. The situation over there is far worse than we have ever seen in this country. Personal experience tells me theres something inherent in these societies that goes beyond economics.


:agree:

Tsarist Russia was thoroughly anti-Semitic. Nicolas II used hatred of the Jews to divert attention away from the defects of his own regime - "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" figured among his favourite bed-time reading, apparently, and the history of the Black Hundreds bears attention if you want to understand the history of that part of the world.

I don't think we in this country can possibly take in just how dreadful the experience of the peoples of the Baltic Republics, Belorus, Poland, Carpathia, Transylvania and Galicia and the Ukraine in the 20th century was, but the sad truth is that racism, genocide and ethnic cleansing were endemic throughout that century.

Have you come across Timothy Snyder's book "Bloodlands - Europe between Hitler and Stalin"? I recommend it.

[DH1875]

aye, both Germany and Netherlands are to play at Metalist stadium. it'll be the surrounding streets that are wild.
I'm sure I read somewhere that Hearts could draw Metalist in Europa cup qualifier?


Do they play each other there? They hate each other as it is and always trouble when they play each other. Throw in the nutters from last night and I think I'd be giving it a miss.

[DH1875]

What irritated me the most was the widespread use of the celtic cross as a facist symbol. WTF is that all about?


You could say the same about the Swastika though. It was a Buddhist, Hindu symbol before the nazi party took it as theirs.

[silverhibee]

Mario is going to sort them out. :greengrin


http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/4345716/Mario-Ill-kill-these-Nazi-thugs.html

[London Hibs FC]

A couple of bellends came into the square in Dnipro shouting stuff, about 10 mins later when they realised they were not getting any attention they just mingled into the crowd and started bevvying like the rest of us. Apart from the incident in the square in Kiev and the nutters attacking the TA march to the stadium I really liked Ukraine and wouldn't hesitate to return.

Went there for work for the first time this year and due to return in October, cannot wait ...... Kiev is one of the most beautiful cities in Europe and the people are extremely welcoming.

Per head of population, probably the highest ratio of stunning women anywhere in the world..... breathtaking!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Aye, that might have had an influence on me too!

[Tha Cabbage Kid]

well to be honest. club football and international football are two totally different things.
I think its plain to see that what BBC were showing was club football. we as hibees had a massive CCS years ago as did a few other football clubs in Scotland and engurland. but when going to a Scotland match it was a different story all together. it will be the same here in Poland for the euro2012 (cant speak for the Ukraine coz I've never been there.) obviously there will be sections of hooligans just like the English when they have been in a few countries.

I've heard our fans singing paedophile to hearts players. players being called beast and so on...and to be far that is not on.

I for sure don't condone racism or anything like that but in Poland for sure they have a more lenient policing about that stuff that in the uk. that's why you see more fights than here. coz if it happened in Scotland it would be extinguished pronto.

I've been here in Poland for a couple of years now and have been to a few European games o see legia and there was no trouble at all. no fights. what they sin isn't all that nice but not too much worse than I've heard at a hibs game or any others I've been to.

for me Poland is a really nice place. and they do have a lot of nice people. i think if you go looking for a fight you will find one. but if your there to enjoy yourself you most probably will.

i watched a little bit of the Sol campbell Documentary here in warsaw and the people here are really sad that this has been brodcast. and i for one understand.

[beensaidbefore]

The more time ive spent with Russians and East Europeans over the years, the more obvious it is that even the intelligent and well-educated among them are much more prone to the kind of racism that most western europeans would find shocking and unbelievable. (and i realise that by saying this i myself am generalising and stereotyping as well :greengrin).


Its just very very prevalent in post-communist societies.


I think this is the real crux of the matter. Attitudes towards casual/recreational violence, sprinkled with a little racial hatred seem to be at odds with 'Western' values and what is acceptable in this country.

However, the John Terry and Luis Suarez incidents in the premiership this year, coupled with the fact that only recently have steps been taken to tackle the hate filled stands of Ibrox and Parkhead highlight that Britian isn't so squeeky clean when it comes to similar matters. Having watched the programme, im not justifying any of what I saw, but we should also remember it wasnt that long ago that Mark Walters had bananas thrown at him playing in Scotland.
It is a problem throughout football, and i feel the programme could have chosen supporters from almost any country other than UK, and found examples of outragous baheviour. The fact that the police don't react show that the problem is not actually confined to the football stadia, but infact ingrained in society in these countries, whos people were forced to be the 'same' for years. If anyone has read 1984, his idea of 'Two Miuntes Hate' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate highlights what im trying to say.

I agree with other posters that it should never have been there in the first place.

[lyonhibs]

I'm really looking forward to this tournament, think it could be a cracker.

I just hope it's not overshadowed by the disgraceful actions of a few neanderthals, who look like they've got in on the act early :bitchy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18363736

[hibsbollah]

I also cant wait. I just hope the female members of my family allow me unfettered access to the remote control for a fortnight. Somehow I doubt it.

On the racism thing, is anyone else starting to think the BBC is indulging in nazi violence porn? I must see the footage of the asian fans getting punched about three times a day. Unacceptable and disgusting as that assault was, it was months ago now. Lets move on and report some NEW stories.

[Sylar]

I'm really looking forward to this tournament, think it could be a cracker.

I just hope it's not overshadowed by the disgraceful actions of a few neanderthals, who look like they've got in on the act early :bitchy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18363736

What irked me most about the article was UEFA already showing how they intend to handle these situations where possible.

"Sweep, sweep..." indeed.

Unless it's absolutely unavoidably audible/visible, they will dismiss such claims as they have here.

I hope the BBC have hyped this up to the hilt and nothing happens, but I can't see it - I genuinely reckon there'll be trouble throughout this competition.

[VickMackie]

John Terry arrived safely then!

[NAE NOOKIE]

What worries me is hearing that some bigwig in Ukraine had described Sol Campbell's comments as " impertinent " which, at least to my ears, sounded a we bit too close to 'uppity' for comfort. :confused:

[Nevi1875]

John Terry arrived safely then!

Haha brilliant. That one made me giggle.

A.B.E

[Purehibee_MYB]

Racism is obviously apparent in football, and especially in Ukraine, I've watched the documentaries.. But what I think has made it worse is the media and UEFA highlighting the problem before it has really started; it will bring the horrible racist prats out of the woodwork to try and ruin the tournament. What would have been much more effective would have been to deal with racism when and where it happened, rather than talking about it in the approach to the tournament.. Just my opinion.

[jgl07]

What irked me most about the article was UEFA already showing how they intend to handle these situations where possible.

"Sweep, sweep..." indeed.

Unless it's absolutely unavoidably audible/visible, they will dismiss such claims as they have here.

I hope the BBC have hyped this up to the hilt and nothing happens, but I can't see it - I genuinely reckon there'll be trouble throughout this competition.

No surprise that UEFA are not taking any action.

When Man City played at Porto, Yaya Toure and Mario Ballotelli were subjected to racist chants. Porto were given a Euro 20,000 fine.

In the next round City were one minute late taking the field in the second half and received a Euro 30,000 fine.

That sums up UEFA's priorities.

This could get very nasty.

[VickMackie]

I personally had the same fears over south Africa after talking to a couple of SA guys from work and they thought it would be carnage and it wasn't.

Hopefully the same applies here.

[Sylar]

I was also very surprised (and a little dismayed) to read Michel Platini saying that any player who leaves the pitch after receiving abuse will be booked.

I'm aware that if players go to the referee, he has the power to take the players off of the park without consequence, however, this then puts the referee in one hell of a precarious position. Do they respond to every single suggestion that a player might be on the receiving end of racist abuse?

If the extent of the problem is in line with what everyone seems to expect, there could be a huge number of stoppages throughout the tournament (and hopefully it doesn't become a deplorable tactic by teams/players).

If the referees decide that NOT to take the players of the park, why is it fair that the player who is on the receiving end of such abuse has no power to get away from such abuse?

[LancsHibs]

John Terry arrived safely then!

:faf:

Disgraceful if true, and don't see any reason why the Dutch would make it up!

[21.05.2016]

Disgusting, but unfortunately I don't think this will be the last incident of this during the tournament. The Dutch FA apparently not putting in an official complaint! They shouldn't accept it and do nothing, this kind of filth needs to be hammered and these sick bigots need to be caught!

[Wembley67]

They undoubtedly have issues but don't believe everything you read...I think the UK has a just as bad racial problem but the authorities are seen to do something about it therefore it's now been erradicated largely from the football stadia. A interesting wee article below:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/06/ugly-spectre



An ugly spectre
Euro 2012 is overshadowed by accusations of racism and anti-Semitism
Jun 6th 2012, 11:24 by K.T. | WARSAW
Tweet..


THE Euro 2012 Football Championship in Poland and Ukraine that is kicking off on June 8th has stimulated great enthusiasm for the beautiful game and an unprecedented construction boom with new stadia and a long-awaited transport upgrade to the host nations. But it is overshadowed by rumours and accusations that racism and anti-Semitism are rife in both countries. Football fans all over Europe who are on their way to the championship games are asking themselves: how bad are racial prejudices in Poland and Ukraine? And should we stay at home?

A BBC Panorama documentary entitled “Stadiums of Hate” that was first aired on June 4th showed football fans in Ukraine beating up south Asians at a match as officials were looking on, Ukrainian skinheads in fight training with a far-right organisation in the forest, hooligans making Nazi salutes and a police officer denying that Nazi salutes had been made. The scenes in Poland showed a group of fans making monkey impressions at a black footballer, and the word “Jew” being used in a derogatory manner.

These images are shown to a shocked Sol Campbell, a black former England football captain. “You could end up coming back in a coffin,” he said. His advice to fans is to “stay home, watch it on TV... don’t even risk it.”

The Polish and Ukrainian governments stated that the BBC grossly exaggerated the reality on the ground by selecting worst cases and presenting them in isolation. No racist attacks against British people have been reported to the British embassy in Warsaw for at least three years. The explanation is not that black people don't go to Poland anyway: John Godson, one of Poland’s two black MPs, said in an interview in Wprost magazine: “I believe that Poland is a tolerant country. Very much on this matter has changed and continues to change for the better. Poles have ever more opportunity to come into contact with foreigners - such as dark-skinned people - and that is better for them. Recall that in the election 30,000 people voted for me. Do you need any other proof of the tolerance of Poles?”

It seems that BBC reporters were highly selective in their reporting in the Panorama documentary. On June 6th, Jonathan Ornstein, the executive director of the Jewish Community Centre of Krakow, sent to our correspondent in Warsaw the following statement:

Krakow, June 6, 2012.

As an American-born Jew living happily and safely in Poland and working
diligently to build Jewish life in that country, I am furious at the way the BBC
has exploited me as a source. The organization used me and others to
manipulate the serious subject of anti-Semitism for its own sensationalist
agenda; in doing so, the BBC has insulted all Polish people and done a
disservice to the growing, thriving Jewish community of Poland.

I have reason to believe the BBC similarly misrepresented the black African
football players it used as sources in the same programme.

Moreover, the BBC knowingly cheated its own audience - the British people
- by concocting a false horror story about Poland. In doing so, the BBC has
spread fear, ignorance, prejudice and hatred.

I would urge the BBC to become more aware of its own negative stereotyping
of Poles, before it goes pointing the finger of judgment.

On April 30th, 2012 I was interviewed by Chris Rogers for a BBC Panorama
program about racism and anti-Semitism in Polish and Ukrainian football
ahead of the Euro2012 football championships taking place in those two
countries. The interview lasted approximately one hour during which I
emphasized that the small number of football fans in Poland engaging in
anti-Semitic and racist behavior do not represent Polish society as a whole. I
stressed throughout the interview the remarkable progress Poland has made
in the 11 years I’ve been living here and carefully explained that the Krakow
Jewish community, with whom I work closely in my capacity of Director of the
Jewish Community Centre, feels safe and well integrated into broader Polish
society.

I suggested to the reporting team that they interview the two Israeli footballers
who played for Wisla Krakow this season and were active members of the
Jewish community so that they could hear firsthand about their positive
experiences. The reporters responded that this line of inquiry “didn’t fit their
story”, a response which perplexed me at the time.

The tendentious programme which aired on BBC One on May 28th “Stadiums
of Hate”, a name which I was not aware of while being interviewed,
completely disregarded anything positive I said and aired only comments
critical of Poland. I am profoundly disturbed by this unethical form of
journalism.

I cannot speak about Ukraine and the revolting images filmed there but
the Poland I have lived in for the past 11 years, while certainly not devoid
of problems with tolerance, has made great strides in that area and in my
opinion has been unfairly portrayed by the BBC. The report is so tendentious
that Poles cannot recognize themselves in it. Had the report been more
nuanced and closer to the reality, they would have been forced to accept that
problems do exist and support solutions currently in place.
To recover some of its journalistic integrity, I call on the BBC to air a follow
up episode that truly represents the state of anti-Semitism in Poland, but also
highlights the increasing support for pluralism in Polish society by accurately
reporting interviewees’ comments.

Jonathan Ornstein
Executive Director
Jewish Community Centre of Krakow

[JimBHibees]

They undoubtedly have issues but don't believe everything you read...I think the UK has a just as bad racial problem but the authorities are seen to do something about it therefore it's now been erradicated largely from the football stadia. A interesting wee article below:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/06/ugly-spectre



An ugly spectre
Euro 2012 is overshadowed by accusations of racism and anti-Semitism
Jun 6th 2012, 11:24 by K.T. | WARSAW
Tweet..


THE Euro 2012 Football Championship in Poland and Ukraine that is kicking off on June 8th has stimulated great enthusiasm for the beautiful game and an unprecedented construction boom with new stadia and a long-awaited transport upgrade to the host nations. But it is overshadowed by rumours and accusations that racism and anti-Semitism are rife in both countries. Football fans all over Europe who are on their way to the championship games are asking themselves: how bad are racial prejudices in Poland and Ukraine? And should we stay at home?

A BBC Panorama documentary entitled “Stadiums of Hate” that was first aired on June 4th showed football fans in Ukraine beating up south Asians at a match as officials were looking on, Ukrainian skinheads in fight training with a far-right organisation in the forest, hooligans making Nazi salutes and a police officer denying that Nazi salutes had been made. The scenes in Poland showed a group of fans making monkey impressions at a black footballer, and the word “Jew” being used in a derogatory manner.

These images are shown to a shocked Sol Campbell, a black former England football captain. “You could end up coming back in a coffin,” he said. His advice to fans is to “stay home, watch it on TV... don’t even risk it.”

The Polish and Ukrainian governments stated that the BBC grossly exaggerated the reality on the ground by selecting worst cases and presenting them in isolation. No racist attacks against British people have been reported to the British embassy in Warsaw for at least three years. The explanation is not that black people don't go to Poland anyway: John Godson, one of Poland’s two black MPs, said in an interview in Wprost magazine: “I believe that Poland is a tolerant country. Very much on this matter has changed and continues to change for the better. Poles have ever more opportunity to come into contact with foreigners - such as dark-skinned people - and that is better for them. Recall that in the election 30,000 people voted for me. Do you need any other proof of the tolerance of Poles?”

It seems that BBC reporters were highly selective in their reporting in the Panorama documentary. On June 6th, Jonathan Ornstein, the executive director of the Jewish Community Centre of Krakow, sent to our correspondent in Warsaw the following statement:

Krakow, June 6, 2012.

As an American-born Jew living happily and safely in Poland and working
diligently to build Jewish life in that country, I am furious at the way the BBC
has exploited me as a source. The organization used me and others to
manipulate the serious subject of anti-Semitism for its own sensationalist
agenda; in doing so, the BBC has insulted all Polish people and done a
disservice to the growing, thriving Jewish community of Poland.

I have reason to believe the BBC similarly misrepresented the black African
football players it used as sources in the same programme.

Moreover, the BBC knowingly cheated its own audience - the British people
- by concocting a false horror story about Poland. In doing so, the BBC has
spread fear, ignorance, prejudice and hatred.

I would urge the BBC to become more aware of its own negative stereotyping
of Poles, before it goes pointing the finger of judgment.

On April 30th, 2012 I was interviewed by Chris Rogers for a BBC Panorama
program about racism and anti-Semitism in Polish and Ukrainian football
ahead of the Euro2012 football championships taking place in those two
countries. The interview lasted approximately one hour during which I
emphasized that the small number of football fans in Poland engaging in
anti-Semitic and racist behavior do not represent Polish society as a whole. I
stressed throughout the interview the remarkable progress Poland has made
in the 11 years I’ve been living here and carefully explained that the Krakow
Jewish community, with whom I work closely in my capacity of Director of the
Jewish Community Centre, feels safe and well integrated into broader Polish
society.

I suggested to the reporting team that they interview the two Israeli footballers
who played for Wisla Krakow this season and were active members of the
Jewish community so that they could hear firsthand about their positive
experiences. The reporters responded that this line of inquiry “didn’t fit their
story”, a response which perplexed me at the time.

The tendentious programme which aired on BBC One on May 28th “Stadiums
of Hate”, a name which I was not aware of while being interviewed,
completely disregarded anything positive I said and aired only comments
critical of Poland. I am profoundly disturbed by this unethical form of
journalism.

I cannot speak about Ukraine and the revolting images filmed there but
the Poland I have lived in for the past 11 years, while certainly not devoid
of problems with tolerance, has made great strides in that area and in my
opinion has been unfairly portrayed by the BBC. The report is so tendentious
that Poles cannot recognize themselves in it. Had the report been more
nuanced and closer to the reality, they would have been forced to accept that
problems do exist and support solutions currently in place.
To recover some of its journalistic integrity, I call on the BBC to air a follow
up episode that truly represents the state of anti-Semitism in Poland, but also
highlights the increasing support for pluralism in Polish society by accurately
reporting interviewees’ comments.

Jonathan Ornstein
Executive Director
Jewish Community Centre of Krakow

Tend to agree. Seemed a very hysterical and biased programme not to say there arent problems however there appears to have been a lack of balance in this which is pretty disappointing from the BBC.

[VickMackie]

My thoughts on the BBC programme was that it was well covered but it felt like they were looking for something.

Whilst the sick ****s doing the monkey chants and attacking the Indians was a disgrace I cannot think that the general Ukrainian and/or Polish people are like that.

Maybe they are, I don't know, but I thought the SA works cup would be a disaster. It WAS. Purely because of that vuvueffibzela!

[Greentinted]

On the racism thing, is anyone else starting to think the BBC is indulging in nazi violence porn? I must see the footage of the asian fans getting punched about three times a day. Unacceptable and disgusting as that assault was, it was months ago now. Lets move on and report some NEW stories.

:agree: I also noticed a subtle reference squeezed into a report about what is labelled "The Group of Death" (not a piece of hyperbole I've ever been comfortable with) where each team in the group had a wee write-up and graphic. The 'design' used in the German graphic wasn't a kick in the erchie from the SS-Totenkopf insignia! :bitchy:

[Sylar]

Only the odd isolated pockets of problems so far, with the Dutch training session and a Czech player in the game vs Russia.

I think tonight is the first game where both clubs have a substantial number of black players in their respective squads, so hopefully the "so far, so good" continues.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

SSN seemed delighted to show a small incident with fans fighting the police to stop one of their mates being lifted. The sound was on mute, so, I'm only assuming they were English. Having been over there a couple of times I really don't think getting into a scrap with the police is a great idea.

[Sir David Gray]

SSN seemed delighted to show a small incident with fans fighting the police to stop one of their mates being lifted. The sound was on mute, so, I'm only assuming they were English. Having been over there a couple of times I really don't think getting into a scrap with the police is a great idea.

If it's the same incident I saw earlier on then it was Croatian fans who were fighting either before or after their match against Ireland last night.

[Scouse Hibee]

SSN seemed delighted to show a small incident with fans fighting the police to stop one of their mates being lifted. The sound was on mute, so, I'm only assuming they were English. Having been over there a couple of times I really don't think getting into a scrap with the police is a great idea.

:rolleyes:

[The Modfather]

:rolleyes:

They were probable Scousers too! :devil:

[Scouse Hibee]

They were probable Scousers too! :devil:

:na na:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

My wholehearted apologies!

[iwasthere1972]

:na na:

Didn't take you long to bin King Kenny. :wink:

[DH1875]

If it's the same incident I saw earlier on then it was Croatian fans who were fighting either before or after their match against Ireland last night.
Apparently a gang of Poles attacked the Irish fans after the game :dunno:.

[Scouse Hibee]

Didn't take you long to bin King Kenny. :wink:

He'll be back after the Euro's, have him on the wall in my office too!