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View Full Version : There's a player in there..



Planet Hibs
23-05-2012, 07:57 AM
Sick of hearing this about our players...what's wrong with them showing us they are decent players!

francobaresi
23-05-2012, 09:11 AM
Maybe because on Saturday it proved that they aren't....

Hibercelona
23-05-2012, 09:16 AM
Our problem is signing over-rated losers with attitude problems.

We always seem to sign players that have had an attitude problem elsewhere.

I'd much rather we signed players that weren't as highly rated but were determined to give it their all in every game.

But that just doesn't seem to be our way.

Planet Hibs
23-05-2012, 09:22 AM
I would also make us train full time from 9 till 5, none of this off to the bookies at 12 nonsense, sure there is lots they can do other than fitness throughout the day

Hibercelona
23-05-2012, 09:24 AM
I would also make us train full time from 9 till 5, none of this off to the bookies at 12 nonsense, sure there is lots they can do other than fitness throughout the day

Thats another thing that frustrates me.

Is there any other club in the SPL that just lets their players go at lunch time? :confused:

Whats that all about? Seriously?

These guys are on 2-5k a week, but seem to only train a few hours here and there.

Players must love coming to hibs for a jolly.

Planet Hibs
23-05-2012, 09:27 AM
Exactly, sure things like tactics, DVD of opposition, helping under 19s, getting out into community such as schools hospitals ect could be done to strengthen ties

blackpoolhibs
23-05-2012, 09:36 AM
While we will always be on the look out for players for the future, and that should always continue.

I agree, i'm fed up with the kind of player who needs time to adjust, or needs better players beside them. Just sign better players who are good enough in their own rights to play SPL football at the level Hibs should be playing.

Hibercelona
23-05-2012, 09:40 AM
While we will always be on the look out for players for the future, and that should always continue.

I agree, i'm fed up with the kind of player who needs time to adjust, or needs better players beside them. Just sign better players who are good enough in their own rights to play SPL football at the level Hibs should be playing.

My favourite phrase is "giving them time to gel". :rolleyes:

We seem to be the only club that require this and never seem to achieve it either.

Where as other clubs have players working their socks off more or less instantly.

alfie
23-05-2012, 09:47 AM
Sorry to bring THEM up at this sensitive time, but the one that sticks in my mind that didn't need time to adjust, or gel with the team, or get up to speed with the SPL was Mark de Vries.

Good players are good players, no matter what league or team they are playing in.






And then I go and shoot myself in the foot by thinking of Hanlon, who was pash until McPake came along...

...maybe there is more to this football management lark than I thought. :confused:

Planet Hibs
23-05-2012, 09:58 AM
And can we please start playing players in their specialist positions, yes we need flexibility but on the odd game not consistently!

patlowe
23-05-2012, 11:55 AM
I think in our current position we are forced to go looking for guys with ability that have possibly not yet reached their potential for whatever reason (see Beuzelin, Murphy, Shiels). However, in recent years we've signed up guys that clearly have ability but lack the desire or mental strength to ever be a real success (see L.Miller, Thornhill, Soares). Finding that balance is clearly difficult and is probably down to luck in some cases.

For the most part, Mowbray was the only boss we've had in recent years that seemed to have the ability to really get an insight into the character of players and whether they truly wanted to improve and reach their potential. Hopefully Fenlon can do the same this summer!

stu in nottingham
23-05-2012, 12:08 PM
'There's a player in there'


My favourite phrase is "giving them time to gel". :rolleyes:


My favourite is 'will do us a job'.

I tend to cringe whenever I hear these types of phrases repeated. :wink:

They usually indicate that the player is probably, but not necessarily, not up to it.

It's not a hard and fast rule but often the best acquisitions 'hit the ground running' as they say!

cabbageandribs1875
23-05-2012, 12:34 PM
my fav is "he's a confidence player" cracks me up that one :greengrin

HibsMax
23-05-2012, 01:06 PM
Rather then being out partying on Saturday night they should have been back at East Mains, or somewhere, and going over the tape of the game. You know, like professionals. If not on Saturday night then at the very least on Sunday. I don't know that they didn't do that but that doesn't stop me from assuming they didn't...and I feel quite confident in that unbased assumption.

Hainan Hibs
23-05-2012, 01:12 PM
One that stands out for me was Edwin De Graaf's piss poor performances being a result of everyone else being rubbish and not him.

RIP
23-05-2012, 01:12 PM
We sign too many players that have failed elsewhere

Temp manager signs temp player

When's the last time you looked at a Hibs team and got the feeling that that was YOUR team out there

Me - not since the CIS final

Still - like turkeys voting for Christmas we carry out shouting - New Manager Please!! - More Signings Please!!

HibsMax
23-05-2012, 01:14 PM
My favourite phrase is "giving them time to gel". :rolleyes:

We seem to be the only club that require this and never seem to achieve it either.

Where as other clubs have players working their socks off more or less instantly.

To be fair, I believe players do need time to gel...but that should take little more than a week or so.

:tin hat:
NFL is arguably a more complicated game than "soccer" in terms of learning the playbook, and new players need time to learn the different plays, but when new players join your team you always hear about how hard they work to learn the different plays. If they don't work hard it shows up VERY quickly as they blow their covers or run wrong routes e.g., if the QB throws the ball long and outside but you run short inside and cutback, EVERYONE can see your mistake....and they don't like it. It takes some players longer than others, and some players fail, but they try. That's the very least I would expect out of a professional. Another thing, depending on the coach, players can be severely punished for screwing up, something that I don't think happens to our players. For example, say you're a running back and you fumble the ball once or twice in a game, that could be you dropped for the rest of the game, maybe even the following week. There just seems to be much less tolerance for mediocrity.




Last night I thought of a plan. The idea came after reading someone's (sorry, forget who) post about Hibs training consisting of running up Arthur's seat every morning followed by the sand dunes in the afternoon. How about when we get our new team assembled we send them to boot camp? I'm being serious. Send them to the army and have these guys put through their paces for a couple of weeks. Not just to work on physical fitness but their discipline as well. I personally think that's a fantastic idea. :D

pentlando
23-05-2012, 01:28 PM
Thats another thing that frustrates me.

Is there any other club in the SPL that just lets their players go at lunch time? :confused:

Whats that all about? Seriously?

These guys are on 2-5k a week, but seem to only train a few hours here and there.

Players must love coming to hibs for a jolly.

I would be surprised if many clubs don't have their players in for half a day. If you train a team from 9-5 each day you'll burn them out. I would prefer to see players go visit local schools and help raise Hibs profiles in their afternoons off, however if you ask players to devote all day to the club when other teams are not their not going to sign for you.

HibsMax
23-05-2012, 01:36 PM
I would be surprised if many clubs don't have their players in for half a day. If you train a team from 9-5 each day you'll burn them out. I would prefer to see players go visit local schools and help raise Hibs profiles in their afternoons off, however if you ask players to devote all day to the club when other teams are not their not going to sign for you.

I'll put my hand up and say I know nothing about what it means to be a football player. I agree that training hard all day, everyday is not a good thing but are there not variations on training? Can the guys not work on things on the pitch that are less labour intensive? Tactics for example? Do they go through tape of previous games and work on things that went wrong?

If what you say in your last sentence is true then I find that disappointing. Players will shy away from clubs that want them to work for their place in the team? Wow. Sounds like we don't want that sort of player in the first place.

Hibercelona
23-05-2012, 01:43 PM
I would be surprised if many clubs don't have their players in for half a day. If you train a team from 9-5 each day you'll burn them out. I would prefer to see players go visit local schools and help raise Hibs profiles in their afternoons off, however if you ask players to devote all day to the club when other teams are not their not going to sign for you.

Hibs will never raise their profile until they start winning more games. (particularly more derbies) Sending a crop of losers to schools to promote the club is sending out the wrong message.

Think about it.

You say to a kid, you can either follow Hibernian (a team that lays down to their rivals and vastly under-achieves), or you can follow Hearts (a team that dominates derbies, regardless of the players Hibs put out)

Who are they more likely to follow?

Like I say, if we want to promote the club the right way, it starts on the pitch.

pentlando
23-05-2012, 03:40 PM
I'll put my hand up and say I know nothing about what it means to be a football player. I agree that training hard all day, everyday is not a good thing but are there not variations on training? Can the guys not work on things on the pitch that are less labour intensive? Tactics for example? Do they go through tape of previous games and work on things that went wrong?

If what you say in your last sentence is true then I find that disappointing. Players will shy away from clubs that want them to work for their place in the team? Wow. Sounds like we don't want that sort of player in the first place.

I completely agree that footballers should put in at least as much work as other full time workers, so 32 hours or so per week. However my point is that can you imagine trying to sell that to an in demand player? Imagine...

Hibs offer - 3K per week, 32 hours training per week
Another club - 3K per week, 12-14 hours training per week

Assuming any rational person is subject to this offer, what would they choose? Barring some loyalty to Hibs, they would be off their head to put in twice the amount of time to a side for the same (monetary) payment. The point is that if we want players to be putting in more effort and being made to double their training schedule then it has to be a wider change within football, not just at Hibs. Otherwise players will be put off signing for the club.

pentlando
23-05-2012, 03:46 PM
Hibs will never raise their profile until they start winning more games. (particularly more derbies) Sending a crop of losers to schools to promote the club is sending out the wrong message.

Think about it.

You say to a kid, you can either follow Hibernian (a team that lays down to their rivals and vastly under-achieves), or you can follow Hearts (a team that dominates derbies, regardless of the players Hibs put out)

Who are they more likely to follow?

Like I say, if we want to promote the club the right way, it starts on the pitch.

That's a bizarre comment IMO. So you believe that Hibs should not be engaging with the local community until they win games? Is that how it works? I think when Hibs are struggling as a club is the best time to be promoting the club, as fans will come regardless if Hibs are winning regularly.

It's also not all about making kids choose to follow either Hibs or Hearts. It's about giving back to the community. Imagine you're 7/8 years old and Leigh Griffiths and Lewis Stevenson come down to help take your P.E. class. I know I'd be over the moon, even if it was Hearts players at that age you're still in awe about the guys who are on your T.V every week.

The pitch is the one area that the club has not got total control over, engaging with the local community is somewhere they have 100% control so lets start there. In the run up to the Cup Final a few of the players were out and about meeting fans. Doyle at Asda, McPake and Mark Brown were at an opticians and there was a couple of signing sessions at the clubstore. This shouldn't just happen in the run up to the cup final, but should be an essential part of a footballers career.

superfurryhibby
23-05-2012, 03:51 PM
Thats another thing that frustrates me.

Is there any other club in the SPL that just lets their players go at lunch time? :confused:

Whats that all about? Seriously?

These guys are on 2-5k a week, but seem to only train a few hours here and there.

Players must love coming to hibs for a jolly.


I agree that training should be full time. Christ almighty, If I, as a fairly keen amateur player, was able to improve my weaker foot by sheer bloody minded sticking at it then surely a "pro" can look to address weaknesses in their games!

truehibernian
23-05-2012, 03:52 PM
Young lads at the SFA Academies are out in the morning and in the afternoon. Admittedly they are in the school environment too, but they get taught tactics, healthy eating/diet needs, social media, etc. All the football training is geared towards technique and skills based.

If it's good enough for growing kids, it's good enough for adults. Pros are spoon fed, lack appreciation of their surroundings and their clubs. I've heard horror stories, one I may add about a previous Hibs legend, not having the capacity to pay bills because 'he thought the club did that for him' and living off pizzas being delivered.

In in the morning doing sharpness and technique, bit of lunch, wee bit of tactics or going over previous game, light warm down and/ or set pieces in the afternoon. Break up the week with team outing whether its golf, karting, paintball etc.....

Lunch together too.

Hibercelona
23-05-2012, 03:52 PM
That's a bizarre comment IMO. So you believe that Hibs should not be engaging with the local community until they win games? Is that how it works? I think when Hibs are struggling as a club is the best time to be promoting the club, as fans will come regardless if Hibs are winning regularly.

It's also not all about making kids choose to follow either Hibs or Hearts. It's about giving back to the community. Imagine you're 7/8 years old and Leigh Griffiths and Lewis Stevenson come down to help take your P.E. class. I know I'd be over the moon, even if it was Hearts players at that age you're still in awe about the guys who are on your T.V every week.

The pitch is the one area that the club has not got total control over, engaging with the local community is somewhere they have 100% control so lets start there. In the run up to the Cup Final a few of the players were out and about meeting fans. Doyle at Asda, McPake and Mark Brown were at an opticians and there was a couple of signing sessions at the clubstore. This shouldn't just happen in the run up to the cup final, but should be an essential part of a footballers career.

If I was a 7/8 school kid and one of them turned up at my school, i'd be absolutely livid with them.

Kids aren't daft, even they know a loser when they see one.

If a failure came up to me and tried to give me advice on how to be successful, I'd tell them to shut right up.

pentlando
23-05-2012, 03:53 PM
I agree that training should be full time. Christ almighty, If I, as a fairly keen amateur player, was able to improve my weaker foot by sheer bloody minded sticking at it then surely a "pro" can look to address weaknesses in their games!

I agree too, but can Hibs really be the 1st club to insist on players training full time? Nobody would sign for us when other clubs continue to offer the status quo. Look at the fuss John Collins training methods kicked up for an example. It needs to be a wider culture change in football, rather than just at Hibs.

Hibercelona
23-05-2012, 03:55 PM
I agree too, but can Hibs really be the 1st club to insist on players training full time? Nobody would sign for us when other clubs continue to offer the status quo. Look at the fuss John Collins training methods kicked up for an example. It needs to be a wider culture change in football, rather than just at Hibs.

Players at other clubs clearly do train longer and harder, as it shows when we play them on the pitch.

Which team looked far fitter on saturday?

You think they train with the same amount of time and effort that Hibs do?

pentlando
23-05-2012, 03:58 PM
If I was a 7/8 school kid and one of them turned up at my school, i'd be absolutely livid with them.

Kids aren't daft, even they know a loser when they see one.

If a failure came up to me and tried to give me advice on how to be successful, I'd tell them to shut right up.

It appears we were very different as children. Let's get something right, the Hibs squad failed in the Scottish Cup Final. That does not mean they can all be called 'losers' and 'failures' in general. If they were truly failures, me and you would not be on a Hibs forum talking about them, because they wouldn't have made it in professional football.

pentlando
23-05-2012, 04:01 PM
Players at other clubs clearly do train longer and harder, as it shows when we play them on the pitch.

Which team looked far fitter on saturday?

You think they train with the same amount of time and effort that Hibs do?

Any evidence of this claim would be useful. The only unfit player on the park IMO was Gary O'Connor, who's been notorious for his fitness issues this season. Hearts were galvanised by both their performance and the fact they played 10 men the whole second half. Fitness was not an issue on Saturday. As for the effort at training I don't think anyone can answer that apart from the players.

Hibercelona
23-05-2012, 04:03 PM
It appears we were very different as children. Let's get something right, the Hibs squad failed in the Scottish Cup Final. That does not mean they can all be called 'losers' and 'failures' in general. If they were truly failures, me and you would not be on a Hibs forum talking about them, because they wouldn't have made it in professional football.

Could you really picture somebody like Garry O'Connor going into a school and giving children advice on healthy eating and staying away from drugs?

Do you honestly think kids would listen?

Kids listen to heros, not people that get themselves in the papers because they were in a drunking brawl last satuday, or where caught in possession of class A drugs.

We haven't had a hero at the club in many years. Kids aren't going to listen to Hibs players until they start conducting themselves properly on and off the pitch.

Hibercelona
23-05-2012, 04:04 PM
Any evidence of this claim would be useful. The only unfit player on the park IMO was Gary O'Connor, who's been notorious for his fitness issues this season. Hearts were galvanised by both their performance and the fact they played 10 men the whole second half. Fitness was not an issue on Saturday. As for the effort at training I don't think anyone can answer that apart from the players.

Are you kidding?

We were second to almost every ball on saturday. The only man in a Hibs shirt actually winning headers was McPake.

Fitness was a massive issue on Saturday.

pentlando
23-05-2012, 04:06 PM
Could you really picture somebody like Garry O'Connor going into a school and giving children advice on healthy eating and staying away from drugs?

Do you honestly think kids would listen?

Kids listen to heros, not people that get themselves in the papers because they were in a drunking brawl last satuday, or where caught in possession of class A drugs.

We haven't had a hero at the club in many years. Kids aren't going to listen to Hibs players until they start conducting themselves properly on and off the pitch.

I'd be completely shocked if a primary school child knows Garry O'Connor has a pending drug charge and regularly goes on the last, they don't read the paper! I was young when Hibs were relegated, and Barry Lavety was one of my heroes. When you're young anyone that plays for Hibs is automatically an idol to you, well at least that's what it was like for me.

pentlando
23-05-2012, 04:08 PM
Are you kidding?

We were second to almost every ball on saturday. The only man in a Hibs shirt actually winning headers was McPake.

Fitness was a massive issue on Saturday.

IMO winning headers and getting to the ball first is an effort issue. If we weren't fit there would be players struggling to run near the end of the game, and taking cramp. I seen none of that on Saturday. We actually covered a lot of ground in the second half after we had a man sent off trying to keep Hearts to just the 5.

Planet Hibs
23-05-2012, 04:10 PM
Why shouldn't every spl club agree to full time training in one of their board get togethers..it's hardly ground breaking stuff and may even prepare the odd player who makes the epl or beyond !! I can't think of a reason why a club would not want their players at their peak both physically or mentally!

Hibercelona
23-05-2012, 04:11 PM
I'd be completely shocked if a primary school child knows Garry O'Connor has a pending drug charge and regularly goes on the last, they don't read the paper! I was young when Hibs were relegated, and Barry Lavety was one of my heroes. When you're young anyone that plays for Hibs is automatically an idol to you, well at least that's what it was like for me.

Of course kids are going to find out about these things.

You have to remember than when you were a child, forms of communication were more limited than they are now.

Children as young as 7/8 have access to the internet at home and at school these days. They're also meeting up with their class mates at school and one of them is bound to know about it and spread the word.

To say kids never find out about these things is ludicrous.

pentlando
23-05-2012, 04:12 PM
Why shouldn't every spl club agree to full time training in one of their board get togethers..it's hardly ground breaking stuff and may even prepare the odd player who makes the epl or beyond !! I can't think of a reason why a club would not want their players at their peak both physically or mentally!

We're also competing with England for players, it just won't work until it's at least UK wide. We can start it at youth levels though, someone earlier in the thread said the SFA acadamies do this now, so that's positive.

HibsMax
23-05-2012, 04:12 PM
I completely agree that footballers should put in at least as much work as other full time workers, so 32 hours or so per week. However my point is that can you imagine trying to sell that to an in demand player? Imagine...

Hibs offer - 3K per week, 32 hours training per week
Another club - 3K per week, 12-14 hours training per week

Assuming any rational person is subject to this offer, what would they choose? Barring some loyalty to Hibs, they would be off their head to put in twice the amount of time to a side for the same (monetary) payment. The point is that if we want players to be putting in more effort and being made to double their training schedule then it has to be a wider change within football, not just at Hibs. Otherwise players will be put off signing for the club.

But surely with all that hard work they would reap the benefits as they become better / fitter players? I mean, if you train for twice as long, one would think you would HAVE to reap some sort of benefits?

This doesn't translate well to the "real world". If you offered me the same money to do half as much work, I would bite your hand off (assuming that I actually enjoyed the work you were offering me). That said, I spend very little time training for my job. Would I like more? Hell yeah, but it's not in the budget and it distracts me too much from doing my real job. I would have no problem putting in the time if my company offered me it though.

Anyway, we're in agreement, we all want fitter / better players. I do think we should be avoiding players who don't want to put in the required effort but in the interests of fairness, I wouldn't make the players work harder just for the hell of it. There has to be an upside for all concerned. I want them to think of the harder training as solid, professional preparation to ensure that they are at the top of their game...not as some sort of punishment.

Hibercelona
23-05-2012, 04:12 PM
IMO winning headers and getting to the ball first is an effort issue. If we weren't fit there would be players struggling to run near the end of the game, and taking cramp. I seen none of that on Saturday. We actually covered a lot of ground in the second half after we had a man sent off trying to keep Hearts to just the 5.

If you lack effort, then you also lack the will to increase your fitness.

It works hand in hand.

Planet Hibs
23-05-2012, 04:13 PM
We're also competing with England for players, it just won't work until it's at least UK wide. We can start it at youth levels though, someone earlier in the thread said the SFA acadamies do this now, so that's positive.

We can't influence epl though and I'm sure they work longer and harder per Steven fletcher commenting on the training

pentlando
23-05-2012, 04:16 PM
Of course kids are going to find out about these things.

You have to remember than when you were a child, forms of communication were more limited than they are now.

Children as young as 7/8 have access to the internet at home and at school these days. They're also meeting up with their class mates at school and one of them is bound to know about it and spread the word.

To say kids never find out about these things is ludicrous.

I think we're missing my original point here and going off at a tangent. It's physically impossible and probably detrimental to train all day every day. There needs to be periods of recovery. I think that in the afternoons Hibs players should be engaging with local schools, businesses and charities. That way both giving back to the community and raising Hibernian's profile simultaneously. If a freakishly advanced 7 year old at primary school is reading in the paper that Garry O'Connor has a charge for drug possession pending then so be it, the other 99% will enjoy having a famous footballer there.

pentlando
23-05-2012, 04:21 PM
But surely with all that hard work they would reap the benefits as they become better / fitter players? I mean, if you train for twice as long, one would think you would HAVE to reap some sort of benefits?

This doesn't translate well to the "real world". If you offered me the same money to do half as much work, I would bite your hand off (assuming that I actually enjoyed the work you were offering me). That said, I spend very little time training for my job. Would I like more? Hell yeah, but it's not in the budget and it distracts me too much from doing my real job. I would have no problem putting in the time if my company offered me it though.

Anyway, we're in agreement, we all want fitter / better players. I do think we should be avoiding players who don't want to put in the required effort but in the interests of fairness, I wouldn't make the players work harder just for the hell of it. There has to be an upside for all concerned. I want them to think of the harder training as solid, professional preparation to ensure that they are at the top of their game...not as some sort of punishment.

:agree: I agree with all this. It needs a culture change and sometimes this can't be forced but has to come naturally. Some players will inevitably stay behind of their own accord, others will rather go home and spend time with their families and some will go straight onto a night out. Hopefully we can get a squad that favours the first couple of options. It's also pretty hard to judge what type of character a player is before you sign them. When you get a video from a scout or agent, it doesn't show what they get up to at the weekends!!

pentlando
23-05-2012, 04:23 PM
We can't influence epl though and I'm sure they work longer and harder per Steven fletcher commenting on the training

I've also seen plenty Fletcher quotes commenting on jaegerbombs and his upcoming trip to marbella :greengrin. Just shows that fans will accept anything that happens off the pitch if the on pitch quality is there!

HibsMax
23-05-2012, 04:27 PM
I think we're missing my original point here and going off at a tangent. It's physically impossible and probably detrimental to train all day every day. There needs to be periods of recovery. I think that in the afternoons Hibs players should be engaging with local schools, businesses and charities. That way both giving back to the community and raising Hibernian's profile simultaneously. If a freakishly advanced 7 year old at primary school is reading in the paper that Garry O'Connor has a charge for drug possession pending then so be it, the other 99% will enjoy having a famous footballer there.

Agree with the bit in bold IF we're talking about training in terms of sprints, etc. Surely there are other things the lads can be working on that don't make physical demands of the body?

I like the idea of Hibs being active in the community - let them get in touch with the fans and future fans - but I would also like them to work on the mental part of the game as well. I'm just making up stuff off the top of my head here but one golf trick, when at the range, is to swing and try and hit the ball as straight and SHORT as possible...like a few yards. That really helps you gain control over your swing. Maybe there is a footballing equivalent, although I can't think of one right now. Maybe playing a game of 5s where nobody is allowed to run.

pentlando
23-05-2012, 04:31 PM
Agree with the bit in bold IF we're talking about training in terms of sprints, etc. Surely there are other things the lads can be working on that don't make physical demands of the body?

I like the idea of Hibs being active in the community - let them get in touch with the fans and future fans - but I would also like them to work on the mental part of the game as well. I'm just making up stuff off the top of my head here but one golf trick, when at the range, is to swing and try and hit the ball as straight and SHORT as possible...like a few yards. That really helps you gain control over your swing. Maybe there is a footballing equivalent, although I can't think of one right now. Maybe playing a game of 5s where nobody is allowed to run.

Yeah there are plenty of things they could be doing. Sometimes on the tactical side of the game spending too much time can overcomplicate things. East Mains i'm sure stays open, so the fact the players leave early shows that the desire is not there. Sometimes you can't force that desire, which is what we'd be doing. Telling some players they need to stay till 5pm each day when their mates at other sides are home for 1pm will stop players coming to Hibs. Remember players will compare themselves to other players, not you, me or the average worker.

HibsMax
23-05-2012, 04:34 PM
Yeah there are plenty of things they could be doing. Sometimes on the tactical side of the game spending too much time can overcomplicate things. East Mains i'm sure stays open, so the fact the players leave early shows that the desire is not there. Sometimes you can't force that desire, which is what we'd be doing. Telling some players they need to stay till 5pm each day when their mates at other sides are home for 1pm will stop players coming to Hibs. Remember players will compare themselves to other players, not you, me or the average worker.

IMO the players NEED to be overwhelmed (I know you said overcomplicated) as I am increasingly UNDERwhelmed with what we do with throw ins, etc.

Hibiza
23-05-2012, 04:41 PM
Sick of hearing this about our players...what's wrong with them showing us they are decent players! you kiddin ?

dchibs
23-05-2012, 05:01 PM
my fav is "he's a confidence player" cracks me up that one :greengrin

What about He has it in his locker.:cb

Stantons Angel
23-05-2012, 05:03 PM
Could you really picture somebody like Garry O'Connor going into a school and giving children advice on healthy eating and staying away from drugs?

Do you honestly think kids would listen?

Kids listen to heros, not people that get themselves in the papers because they were in a drunking brawl last satuday, or where caught in possession of class A drugs.

We haven't had a hero at the club in many years. Kids aren't going to listen to Hibs players until they start conducting themselves properly on and off the pitch.

How can you underestimate young children ? Garry O has a bad media profile and is a bit of a "bad image", shall we say? But to a young Hibs supporter his is a hero. (yes its gary im talking about).

You talk about the players being worked 9-5pm each day but any fitness coach will tell you that a professional athlete must train the amount of hours required to keep his fitness at a peak. Over training can take its toll on many a player.

I think people on this post should have a look at the work Hibs do in the community and they may be surprised at the work currently being undertaken by players out there.

Most first team players give up their afternoons frequently visiting schools in the area giving talks, yes on healthy eating, general fitness and taking school fitness sessions.

The young team members also give time 2/3 evenings with the disabled football teams through the Hibernian Community Foundation.

There are many such projects going on all the time that players give their time to. If you are interested in finding out more why not have a look at the official site at some of the things being undertaken in the community.

Just thought id bring it to the attention of the posters before they go off slagging the players for something else!

Planet Hibs
23-05-2012, 06:17 PM
you kiddin ?

Nope. Hear it constantly bout spoony, booth, hanlon, Doyle, osbourne, Galbraith and Ofcourse claros!! To name a few

blackpoolhibs
24-05-2012, 08:18 AM
Ah the fitness issue again, if someone can show me just what Hearts do differently to us i'd love to see it.

They have a couple of hours at Herriot watt in between the ladies gymnastic team and a public house 5 a sides kick about.

Where else do they go to put the extra time in?

If fitness is the issue, why are Aberdeen not going beserk, they lost the semi final to an unfit team, one who cant get near a tackle because of fitness?

Let me tell you the real problem, we dont have very good players. And they do a lot of chasing shadows.

Better players keep the ball, poor players chase it. They then run out of gas a lot quicker than those who protect the ball.

Its not rocket science. :rolleyes:

The Modfather
24-05-2012, 12:30 PM
Ah the fitness issue again, if someone can show me just what Hearts do differently to us i'd love to see it.

They have a couple of hours at Herriot watt in between the ladies gymnastic team and a public house 5 a sides kick about.

Where else do they go to put the extra time in?

If fitness is the issue, why are Aberdeen not going beserk, they lost the semi final to an unfit team, one who cant get near a tackle because of fitness?

Let me tell you the real problem, we dont have very good players. And they do a lot of chasing shadows.

Better players keep the ball, poor players chase it. They then run out of gas a lot quicker than those who protect the ball.

Its not rocket science. :rolleyes:

I don't remember Hearts, or any other club in Britain for that matter, coming out and admitting that mid-way through a season the squad was not fit enough. Of course it was a factor, as was the lack of effort, desire, heart and a big dollop of lack of ability!

Speedway
24-05-2012, 12:47 PM
I remember wandering through the old main stand on a week day when Miller was in charge. I walked into one room and there was Gordon Rae and Superb Joe going through a video of their last match, watching and rewinding and watching etc.

Rae was always a colussus. Joe needed more than VHS replays to help him.

But I agree, it's just a case of having poor players either in ability or attitude. Look at Galbraith, plenty of pedigree but comes up against an opponent, ***** himself, runs for it and then falls over before real contact can be made, looking for the free kick.

We've got no time, space or money for ite like that in the squad.

blackpoolhibs
24-05-2012, 01:19 PM
I don't remember Hearts, or any other club in Britain for that matter, coming out and admitting that mid-way through a season the squad was not fit enough. Of course it was a factor, as was the lack of effort, desire, heart and a big dollop of lack of ability!

Its an excuse every new manager uses, in fact name me a manager who comes into a new struggling club who has never said we must work harder?

Its an excuse for having sheite players.

The Modfather
24-05-2012, 02:28 PM
Its an excuse every new manager uses, in fact name me a manager who comes into a new struggling club who has never said we must work harder?

Its an excuse for having sheite players.

"work harder", "all pull together" etc, yes. However, we could all see that for a VERY long time hibs were the unfittest (in more ways than one, but lets keep to the context of physical fitness) in the league. It took an outsider to come in and admit what we could all see.

Unlike a call I had with Fyfe, where upon being asked why have Hibs teams of the last x number of years not been as fit as Collins team (which was pre training centre). I was given the detailed, analytical, well cosmposed response - "that's not true". Cue the arrival of Fenlon...

KWJ
24-05-2012, 02:56 PM
We've had players come in and look decent for the first few games and then they seem to merge into the same rot that all the other players are going through. This was most evident under Calderwood but I worry it could continue. How many players have we gone through in the past 3 seasons? It's a joke that they are all, despite being well paid, the 2nd worst in the league.

WhileTheChief..
24-05-2012, 03:53 PM
Sick of hearing this about our players...what's wrong with them showing us they are decent players!

It's mostly folk on here that would say these things either out of blind loyalty or sheer stupidity!! You just have to think back to CC's signings last year. It was clear as day that most were useless huddies but still there were plenty on here saying they just need time to gel etc.

Personally i think that's a huge problem we have as a fan base, we are way too accepting of mediocrity. PF said it about the club in general but we as fans are just as bad. We should demand so much more from our players.

If more fans had demanded CCs removal last summer perhaps the board would have acted quicker, but no, all we heard was more time, give him till Xmas etc. We need to toughen up as a support!!

HibsMax
24-05-2012, 04:46 PM
It's mostly folk on here that would say these things either out of blind loyalty or sheer stupidity!! You just have to think back to CC's signings last year. It was clear as day that most were useless huddies but still there were plenty on here saying they just need time to gel etc.

Personally i think that's a huge problem we have as a fan base, we are way too accepting of mediocrity. PF said it about the club in general but we as fans are just as bad. We should demand so much more from our players.

If more fans had demanded CCs removal last summer perhaps the board would have acted quicker, but no, all we heard was more time, give him till Xmas etc. We need to toughen up as a support!!

In fairness, when there are large changes made to the team I would say that they DO need time to gel. But it shouldn't take more than one or two weeks. And if we're only bringing in a couple of players then it should be quicker as it's not EVERYONE that needs to learn the new dance.

One thing I think is certain, given the tone on dot net since Saturday, I don't think the fans are going to accept this crap any more. The usual excuses that get trotted out won't work this time around. I don't know if anyone expects us to challenge for top six next season (nice thought but I don't want to set my sights too high) and another bottom six finish would be OK by me IF, and only IF, there are definite signs of improvement. Winning AT LEAST half of our home games isn't too much to ask for. Is it? Watching a team fight for each other isn't unreasonable.

I'm going to go off topic here a little but I started reading Alan Lugton's Making of book recently and, holy ****, that opened my eyes. I'm not much of a historian at all (all things, not just Hibs) but when you learn how the club was founded and how much it meant for these guys at the time, it really makes you yearn for that sort of application again. Alas, the game has been ruined by ($)($).

WhileTheChief..
24-05-2012, 04:57 PM
One thing I think is certain, given the tone on dot net since Saturday, I don't think the fans are going to accept this crap any more. The usual excuses that get trotted out won't work this time around. I don't know if anyone expects us to challenge for top six next season (nice thought but I don't want to set my sights too high) and another bottom six finish would be OK by me IF, and only IF, there are definite signs of improvement. Winning AT LEAST half of our home games isn't too much to ask for. Is it? Watching a team fight for each other isn't unreasonable.


:agree: The difference for me this time around is that I think finally the board have realised the mess we are in whereas I think they were in denial last year.

I also think that the fans are actually more united than we were last year. Most folk seem to be behind PF whereas last summer we had the whole CC sweeties affair causing a lot of infighting.

Bizarrely I also feel that the club are closer to the fans now. To me it feels like we are all in the **** together now and not so much of a them and us attitude. Not a popular feeling on here I know!

blackpoolhibs
24-05-2012, 09:14 PM
"work harder", "all pull together" etc, yes. However, we could all see that for a VERY long time hibs were the unfittest (in more ways than one, but lets keep to the context of physical fitness) in the league. It took an outsider to come in and admit what we could all see.

Unlike a call I had with Fyfe, where upon being asked why have Hibs teams of the last x number of years not been as fit as Collins team (which was pre training centre). I was given the detailed, analytical, well cosmposed response - "that's not true". Cue the arrival of Fenlon...

Not all of us, yes i'd say O'Conner is no athlete, but who are these unfit players you are talking about?

I will guess you might say Tom Soares from this lot, he's had a few injuries and always seemed to be coming back from one injury or another.

Who else are these unfit players, and how do they ever manage to win a game if the opposition are so much fitter than us?

The Modfather
24-05-2012, 09:44 PM
Not all of us, yes i'd say O'Conner is no athlete, but who are these unfit players you are talking about?

I will guess you might say Tom Soares from this lot, he's had a few injuries and always seemed to be coming back from one injury or another.

Who else are these unfit players, and how do they ever manage to win a game if the opposition are so much fitter than us?

"i'd say O'Conner is no athlete", I'd say using O'Connor and athlete in the same sentence is an oxymoron!

As for the bit in bold you don't half like to be dramatic don't you. There isn't a case for saying we were not physical unfit compared to every other team in the league under Mixu, Yogi and particularly Calderwood, but even under Calderwood we did win the odd game (although there were so few of them they are difficult to remember :greengrin).

If pressed I would, personally, say that the likes of Sproule, Osbourne (although he isn't the quickest at the nest of times), Soares, Stack, O'connor, Doherty and Claros aren't as fit as they could be. Although compared to the pre January team they are all like Hercules. I believe fitness was a factor, along with a lot of other factors, as to why we didn't even turn up.

blackpoolhibs
24-05-2012, 09:55 PM
"i'd say O'Conner is no athlete", I'd say using O'Connor and athlete in the same sentence is an oxymoron!

As for the bit in bold you don't half like to be dramatic don't you. There isn't a case for saying we were not physical unfit compared to every other team in the league under Mixu, Yogi and particularly Calderwood, but even under Calderwood we did win the odd game (although there were so few of them they are difficult to remember :greengrin).

If pressed I would, personally, say that the likes of Sproule, Osbourne (although he isn't the quickest at the nest of times), Soares, Stack, O'connor, Doherty and Claros aren't as fit as they could be. Although compared to the pre January team they are all like Hercules. I believe fitness was a factor, along with a lot of other factors, as to why we didn't even turn up.

Ok we both know we will never agree on this, O'Connor apart. Stack unfit, just how do you tell he's unfit?

Sproule unfit, naw. Brain dead yes, runs about like a headless chicken yes, unfit no.

Doherty unfit my erse, slow on the uptake, he reacts slow and is often beaten to the ball because of that.

Claros unfit, no. He runs like he needs his joints oiled, he's not quick or particularly physical. Unfit no.

Soares, always injured, always coming back from an injury of one kind or another. He's a big lad who will never be quick, has no balls and was never prepared to put his body on the line in any 50/50 tackle.

O'Sbourne a player who has one pace, unfit no.

Hibercelona
24-05-2012, 10:04 PM
How can you underestimate young children ? Garry O has a bad media profile and is a bit of a "bad image", shall we say? But to a young Hibs supporter his is a hero. (yes its gary im talking about).

You talk about the players being worked 9-5pm each day but any fitness coach will tell you that a professional athlete must train the amount of hours required to keep his fitness at a peak. Over training can take its toll on many a player.

I think people on this post should have a look at the work Hibs do in the community and they may be surprised at the work currently being undertaken by players out there.

Most first team players give up their afternoons frequently visiting schools in the area giving talks, yes on healthy eating, general fitness and taking school fitness sessions.

The young team members also give time 2/3 evenings with the disabled football teams through the Hibernian Community Foundation.

There are many such projects going on all the time that players give their time to. If you are interested in finding out more why not have a look at the official site at some of the things being undertaken in the community.

Just thought id bring it to the attention of the posters before they go off slagging the players for something else!

Children don't do what they're told to do, they lead by example instead.

Players can turn up at schools and rattle on about a healthy life style all they want, but unless these childrens "heros" wisen up and take their own advice, children won't either.

Children always say they want to grow up and be just like their heros.

We'll if their heros are unfit, lazy and don't lead a healthy life style, children will grow up thinking that its ok.

Hibercelona
24-05-2012, 10:08 PM
Ah the fitness issue again, if someone can show me just what Hearts do differently to us i'd love to see it.

They have a couple of hours at Herriot watt in between the ladies gymnastic team and a public house 5 a sides kick about.

Where else do they go to put the extra time in?

If fitness is the issue, why are Aberdeen not going beserk, they lost the semi final to an unfit team, one who cant get near a tackle because of fitness?

Let me tell you the real problem, we dont have very good players. And they do a lot of chasing shadows.

Better players keep the ball, poor players chase it. They then run out of gas a lot quicker than those who protect the ball.

Its not rocket science. :rolleyes:

If its not rocket science, then why does it require good players in order to simply hold on to the ball?

You don't have to be a team of great footballers in order to pass the ball around a bit in order to keep the opposition from gaining posession. But Hibs couldn't even manage that on saturday. Instead they were far to quick in posession, instead of just holding onto it and frustrating Hearts. Which I personally think would have been a far easier option.

blackpoolhibs
25-05-2012, 02:34 PM
If its not rocket science, then why does it require good players in order to simply hold on to the ball?

You don't have to be a team of great footballers in order to pass the ball around a bit in order to keep the opposition from gaining posession. But Hibs couldn't even manage that on saturday. Instead they were far to quick in posession, instead of just holding onto it and frustrating Hearts. Which I personally think would have been a far easier option.

Good players control the ball quickly, look up and either go forward sideways or backwards with that ball, or move it on. Our lot are taking their third and fourth touches before getting the thing under control, and yes you have guessed it they are closed down.

Good players anticipate very easily what bad players are going to do, our play is so easy to predict. Goalkeeper to right back or centre half, into Claros or Stevenson then back to McPake or Hanlon. If Kijabi is on fine they give it to him, if he's closed down its whoof up the park. We are so easy to shut down, you think its fitness, i believe its poor players.

Then when they do get space, Sproule apart and he's less control of a football than me, they are so slow they are easily caught.

Put it this way, would you be happy to keep the same lot of players if they were in your eyes much fitter?

Can ANYONE come up with any proof our lot are doing less training than other SPL clubs?

superfurryhibby
25-05-2012, 03:03 PM
[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;3245954]Good players control the ball quickly, look up and either go forward sideways or backwards with that ball, or move it on. Our lot are taking their third and fourth touches before getting the thing under control, and yes you have guessed it they are closed down.


In think that here you have the key. I'm sue our players are as fit as anyone else's in the SPL. I have always believed that the guys who are blessed with better natural balance, foot to eye co-ordination etc , will always look better and quicker. If football was only based on effort and fitness then I would have played for Hibs and Scotland, no for Edinburgh Uni.

My point earlier stated that every player can improve weakness in their technique and that additional training should focus on addressing this. Any one with a dedication to their profession and some ambition would welcome it. Can it be that the general poor level of education and prevalent culture of stupidity associated with scottish footballers prevents this?

blackpoolhibs
25-05-2012, 03:14 PM
[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;3245954]Good players control the ball quickly, look up and either go forward sideways or backwards with that ball, or move it on. Our lot are taking their third and fourth touches before getting the thing under control, and yes you have guessed it they are closed down.


In think that here you have the key. I'm sue our players are as fit as anyone else's in the SPL. I have always believed that the guys who are blessed with better natural balance, foot to eye co-ordination etc , will always look better and quicker. If football was only based on effort and fitness then I would have played for Hibs and Scotland, no for Edinburgh Uni.

My point earlier stated that every player can improve weakness in their technique and that additional training should focus on addressing this. Any one with a dedication to their profession and some ambition would welcome it. Can it be that the general poor level of education and prevalent culture of stupidity associated with scottish footballers prevents this?

:agree: I agree to a certain extent, especially with younger players. Quality players always look like they have more time on the ball than players with less ability.

Just accusing everyone of being unfit is in itself lazy, and ignoring the basics that are staring us in the face.