Would you swap financial security for the scottish cup?

[Monts]

Obviously everyone is hurting at the moment, and our performance was atrocious, but we were playing against a team who have gambled with there future for a little bit of success.

Would you be happy if we won the cup and dominated hearts in the process but the books werent balancing up?

[HibsMax]

No. But it depends on what you mean by swap. Do you mean be in the same sort of soapy bubble as Rangers and Hearts? I don't want that. I want Hibs to be a solid club financially and still competing. I don't see why the two should be mutually exclusive. It will take time but they've had time IMO. Time to start spending money on the team, although sadly I don't know where that money comes from.

[Hibercelona]

Why do we have this illusion that in order to win the Scottish cup, we must break the bank to do it?

Hearts were still dominating us, long before they were breaking the bank.

Can't people wake up and see where the real problem lies????????

[Monts]

Why do we have this illusion that in order to win the Scottish cup, we must break the bank to do it?

Who said it was a must? The question relates to the fact we were beaten by a team who have done just that. They have spent well beyond their means and have won the cup twice. The question is is that a price worth paying to finally get our hands on the trophy.

[Hibercelona]

Who said it was a must? The question relates to the fact we were beaten by a team who have done just that. They have spent well beyond their means and have won the cup twice. The question is is that a price worth paying to finally get our hands on the trophy.

We still wouldn't get our hands on the trophy, even if we spent countless millions on our squad.

We fail to make players understand the importance of winning, thats where we fail as a club.

That cup should have been ours on saturday, but we didn't turn up at all.

It had nothing to do with the Hearts players, it had everything to do with us not turning up.

[Billychaotic182]

No

[Spike Mandela]

No. But it depends on what you mean by swap. Do you mean be in the same sort of soapy bubble as Rangers and Hearts? I don't want that. I want Hibs to be a solid club financially and still competing. I don't see why the two should be mutually exclusive. It will take time but they've had time IMO. Time to start spending money on the team, although sadly I don't know where that money comes from.

Why not follow the Rangers/Hearts scenario? Throw money at the team to try and win things and at the very least see some decent, exciting signings. Carry on as long as we can until someone calls in the debt then use a clever lawyer and administrator to form newco Edinburgh Hibernian and play in whatever league that will have us.

Hearts have won 3 Scottish cups in 14 years and Rangers have years of success culminating in their best financial year yet wiping potentially over £100m off their debt. Some may call it cheating but their fans don't care.

It's time we joined the reckless spending party instead of being perrenial doormats for the big spenders.

[Monts]

We still wouldn't get our hands on the trophy, even if we spent countless millions on our squad.

We fail to make players understand the importance of winning, thats where we fail as a club.

That cup should have been ours on saturday, but we didn't turn up at all.

It had nothing to do with the Hearts players, it had everything to do with us not turning up.

You seem to be missing the point of a hypothetical question.

[Hibercelona]

You seem to be missing the point of a hypothetical question.

I know your question is hypothetical.

But lets be serious for a minute. What exactly are Hearts at risk of?

They've just cut their debt back down to the original 24million and have 2 SC wins.

That means that since Vlad had taken them over, they've won the cup twice, but are no worser off financially than they were when he first turned up.

We didn't lose because Hearts spent more money than us on the squad, we lost, because we didn't fight for it.

[Treadstone]

I know your question is hypothetical.

But lets be serious for a minute. What exactly are Hearts at risk of?

They've just cut their debt back down to the original 24million and have 2 SC wins.

That means that since Vlad had taken them over, they've won the cup twice, but are no worser off financially than they were when he first turned up.

We didn't lose because Hearts spent more money than us on the squad, we lost, because we didn't fight for it.

That is what they said . Hearts turnover was £6.9m but they reduced their debt by £12m ! Just doesn't add up . Likely massaging of figures to make the club more friendly for a buyer . Watch the debt that was "restructured" turn up over time.

[Monts]

I know your question is hypothetical.

But lets be serious for a minute. What exactly are Hearts at risk of?

They've just cut their debt back down to the original 24million and have 2 SC wins.

That means that since Vlad had taken them over, they've won the cup twice, but are no worser off financially than they were when he first turned up.

We didn't lose because Hearts spent more money than us on the squad, we lost, because we didn't fight for it.

So in the hypothetical, you are saying yes, it would be worth it?

[Geo_1875]

Why do we have this illusion that in order to win the Scottish cup, we must break the bank to do it?

Hearts were still dominating us, long before they were breaking the bank.

Can't people wake up and see where the real problem lies????????


Hearts have been "breaking the bank" for a lot longer than the last 6/7 years. They've been at it since Mercer wasn't dead. That's one of the reasons they call themselves a big club, because they've consistently outspent us. Every time we've tried to compete we end up in a mess. So no I don't think we should throw money we don't have at winning a trophy that only they care about. After all, if they win it another twice they'll have won it the same number of times as Queens Park and they're amateurs.

[CB_NO3]

I know your question is hypothetical.

But lets be serious for a minute. What exactly are Hearts at risk of?

They've just cut their debt back down to the original 24million and have 2 SC wins.

That means that since Vlad had taken them over, they've won the cup twice, but are no worser off financially than they were when he first turned up.

We didn't lose because Hearts spent more money than us on the squad, we lost, because we didn't fight for it.

We lost it because we were not good enough. Hearts have a better quality of player all over the park. You could pluck 11 fans from the stand who would fight like mad but we would still get beat. The lack of fight was not there. Our players are just not very good hence why we were 2nd bottom of the league. Hearts pay good wages to guys like Beattie, Skacel, Driver and Webster and so on. They pay for that quality. We pay for guys on loan who dont give a toss about Hibs one bit and infact are not very good. Hearts sign proven quality where as we take gambles on lower league players or reserve players for bigger clubs in hope that they become good players.

[Famous5forever]

We lost it because we were not good enough. Hearts have a better quality of player all over the park. You could pluck 11 fans from the stand who would fight like mad but we would still get beat. The lack of fight was not there. Our players are just not very good hence why we were 2nd bottom of the league. Hearts pay good wages to guys like Beattie, Skacel, Driver and Webster and so on. They pay for that quality. We pay for guys on loan who dont give a toss about Hibs one bit and infact are not very good. Hearts sign proven quality where as we take gambles on lower league players or reserve players for bigger clubs in hope that they become good players.

You would think that Paddy has knoledge of players in the LOI That could come in and do a job ? sprinkle in a few pros from the Championship clubs that are available and bobs your uncle.

[CB_NO3]

You would think that Paddy has knoledge of players in the LOI That could come in and do a job ? sprinkle in a few pros from the Championship clubs that are available and bobs your uncle.

Again, taking players from the LOI is a gamble. Am not saying there is not a few gems out there but we need instant success. Whats more annoying is, its a weak SPL. I think we need to get scouts into Europe. There must be players in the second division leagues of France, Germany, Italy or Spain that are good enough. Guys that are technically more gifted than our players. I would prefer them to come in rather than a young British lad who would rather tweet nonsense and hang about George Street. Hearts seem to pick decent players from the continent albeit they pay a bit more money than us.

[HibsMax]

Again, taking players from the LOI is a gamble. Am not saying there is not a few gems out there but we need instant success. Whats more annoying is, its a weak SPL. I think we need to get scouts into Europe. There must be players in the second division leagues of France, Germany, Italy or Spain that are good enough. Guys that are technically more gifted than our players. I would prefer them to come in rather than a young British lad who would rather tweet nonsense and hang about George Street. Hearts seem to pick decent players from the continent albeit they pay a bit more money than us.

I actually don't think we do need instant success. If we get that then the Billy Big Baws will have ideas above their stations and seek lucrative deals wherever else they can. We need players who can and will fight for the badge week in and week out. We need players who are loyal to the club...if such a player even exists today. I think building a team like that takes time. Yay, more years for us to wait for "it" to happen.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOOOOOVE instant success too but I am not sure that doesn't come with a price.

I really don't know what the answer is. There are pros and cons for almost all scenarios. I'm being a little romantic here but I like the idea of having a bunch of no-names busting their ***** every single week because they're proud to be playing...not guys who think they are doing us a favour just by turning up.

[RoYO!]

I know your question is hypothetical.

But lets be serious for a minute. What exactly are Hearts at risk of?

They've just cut their debt back down to the original 24million and have 2 SC wins.

That means that since Vlad had taken them over, they've won the cup twice, but are no worser off financially than they were when he first turned up.

We didn't lose because Hearts spent more money than us on the squad, we lost, because we didn't fight for it.

The winding up orders aren't a threat no? Or the fact that they can only stave off the winding up order by not paying their players.

Your final point, I'm afraid is total nonsense.... IMO of course :p

[theonlywayisup]

100% YES.

I would swap our fantastic balance sheet and new infrastructure for the financial in-security, if it meant winning the Scottish Cup. The balance sheet does not get me excited, nor the facilities. Honestly, if our future is to continue losing in derbies, failing to win at home and fighting relegation every year, with no hope of success, then no thanks.

Hibs will never die. If our debts became too large, then administration would come along and after a couple of years we would be back.

[JeMeSouviens]

We still wouldn't get our hands on the trophy, even if we spent countless millions on our squad.

We fail to make players understand the importance of winning, thats where we fail as a club.

That cup should have been ours on saturday, but we didn't turn up at all.

It had nothing to do with the Hearts players, it had everything to do with us not turning up.

So it's just coincidence that we "turn up" against Inverness, Aberdeen, Dunfermline who all happen to have pish players that cost the same or less than ours but don't "turn up" against Rangers, Celtic, Hearts who all have better, expensive players we can't afford?

We've been pish all season, why did anyone think it was anything other than extremely unlikely we'd win the cup?

All this stuff about a derby hoodoo is vastly overstated. Maybe in the Miller years we had a problem but from the mid-90s to mid-noughties the derby was fairly even depsite Hearts consistently outspending us. Since Vlad took over and took their spending up another level, to consistently around double what we pay, it's no wonder they usually beat us and nobody should be surprised.

[Saturdays Hero]

Yes in a heartbeat,when we won the League Cup I said to my mates enjoy it as this is as good as it gets,I still stand by that & would like nothing better than to be proven different .

[HibsMax]

100% YES.

I would swap our fantastic balance sheet and new infrastructure for the financial in-security, if it meant winning the Scottish Cup. The balance sheet does not get me excited, nor the facilities. Honestly, if our future is to continue losing in derbies, failing to win at home and fighting relegation every year, with no hope of success, then no thanks.

Hibs will never die. If our debts became too large, then administration would come along and after a couple of years we would be back.

First of all, without proper finance we have NO future.

Secondly, what makes you think Hibs could bounce back from administration? I don't doubt that Hibs would be back but there is no guarantee they would be playing in the SPL.

I would rather support a ****ty team than have no team to support. If you are confident that Hibs could bounce back from administration, why aren't you confident that we can bounce back now? My point being, why do we have to go into debt, screw up our finances, etc. to win a Scottish Cup?



For the record, as someone who has been vocal about backing Hibs use of resources, I think it's time to invest in the TEAM NOW. I always said that investing in the infrastructure was important and I backed the timing. But i also said that would all be worthless if we didn't have a team to use those facilities...therefor, once that was all in place, the board should focus more on the team. What's the point in having amazing china if all you're going to do is serve pot noodles?

[JeMeSouviens]

What exactly are Hearts at risk of?


They exist pretty much at the whim of one madman. As long as he is happy to support their insane spending and write off the debt, they're fine. If he pulls the plug, they're ******. Unlike Ibrox, Tynecastle sits on a potential housing development. A newco Hearts would be potless and homeless. They are already a basket case and that's without the 3 killer words hiding in their accounts: "ongoing HMRC investigation".

Contrastingly, if STF pulled the plug on Hibs, we'd be a reasonable purchase.