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1875Sean
16-05-2012, 05:38 PM
Anyone hear him on real radio? Was speaking about Sporting integrity*and said Petrie has a cheek about goin on about it after what happened with him! Still sounds bitter!

Part/Time Supporter
16-05-2012, 05:42 PM
As much as it is clear that Petrie didn't handle that situation well, I fail to see how the two issues are connected.

Bostonhibby
16-05-2012, 05:48 PM
Anyone hear him on real radio? Was speaking about Sporting integrity*and said Petrie has a cheek about goin on about it after what happened with him! Still sounds bitter!

Right or wrong, poor timing on JC's part.

HibsMax
16-05-2012, 05:54 PM
Way to get behind the team, John. :thumbsup:

Douchebag. As already stated, the two issues aren't even related. Not even close.

NAE NOOKIE
16-05-2012, 06:19 PM
Not sure how there is a connection between his time at Hibs and the current situation regarding rangers and Petrie's statement.

FWIW ... I will remember John Collins as the man who won the League Cup with Mowbrays team and the manager who weeks later failed to get the best team we have had for 20 years past a bog standard Dunfermline team and into a final against the poorest celtic team for a decade ... talk about a missed chance.

I will also remember him as a man who didnt have the bottle to prove himself as a manager by making the best of a small budget.

Most of the great managers have started out by making a silk purse out of a sows ear. Ferguson, McLean, Stein et al.

Not by walking away like a whiny bitch coz it looked like the going was getting tough.

As a football manager Mr Collins is currently residing in the where are they now file.

VPHIBEE
16-05-2012, 06:30 PM
Not sure how there is a connection between his time at Hibs and the current situation regarding rangers and Petrie's statement.

FWIW ... I will remember John Collins as the man who won the League Cup with Mowbrays team and the manager who weeks later failed to get the best team we have had for 20 years past a bog standard Dunfermline team and into a final against the poorest celtic team for a decade ... talk about a missed chance.

I will also remember him as a man who didnt have the bottle to prove himself as a manager by making the best of a small budget.

Most of the great managers have started out by making a silk purse out of a sows ear. Ferguson, McLean, Stein et al.

Not by walking away like a whiny bitch coz it looked like the going was getting tough.

As a football manager Mr Collins is currently residing in the where are they now file.

When he came in I said that the team would end up saying "aye right John" to his rubbish patter. And what did they do? That team won the CIS Cup despite him, not because of him. They all thought he was knob, you just have to look at their reactions and him walking about on his own on the pitch at the end.

The Modfather
17-05-2012, 09:04 AM
Not sure how there is a connection between his time at Hibs and the current situation regarding rangers and Petrie's statement.

FWIW ... I will remember John Collins as the man who won the League Cup with Mowbrays team and the manager who weeks later failed to get the best team we have had for 20 years past a bog standard Dunfermline team and into a final against the poorest celtic team for a decade ... talk about a missed chance.

I will also remember him as a man who didnt have the bottle to prove himself as a manager by making the best of a small budget.

Most of the great managers have started out by making a silk purse out of a sows ear. Ferguson, McLean, Stein et al.

Not by walking away like a whiny bitch coz it looked like the going was getting tough.

As a football manager Mr Collins is currently residing in the where are they now file.

Sounds like Collins isn't the only one who is bitter.

As per the bit in bold, if Collins won the cup with Mowbray's team (Mowbray couldn't win a cup with Mowbray's team) would it not also then be Mowbrays team that bottled it against Dunfermline? Or was it Mowbrays team when we won, and Collins team when we lost?

I'd have him Collins, with an assistant to help him, not Tomm Caig, back in a heartbeat. A fit, organised team with a manager who understands and actualy applies tactics. That's all I ask.

Just_Jimmy
17-05-2012, 09:22 AM
Sounds like Collins isn't the only one who is bitter.

As per the bit in bold, if Collins won the cup with Mowbray's team (Mowbray couldn't win a cup with Mowbray's team) would it not also then be Mowbrays team that bottled it against Dunfermline? Or was it Mowbrays team when we won, and Collins team when we lost?

I'd have him Collins, with an assistant to help him, not Tomm Caig, back in a heartbeat. A fit, organised team with a manager who understands and actualy applies tactics. That's all I ask.

Aye like Kevin McCann at centre half against Inverness CT's bruisers?
Or Boozy at Centre half against the Hun?
Or a formation so shambolic against Celtic at ER that he had to hook Lewis after 15 mins?

Collins won us a cup, I'll always be glad for that. I always thought him a man of true sporting value and integrety and even if he's right, he should keep quiet.

NORTHERNHIBBY
17-05-2012, 09:30 AM
Needs to let this go. If he was in any more denial about his role in what happened, he would be a stick on for a job at Ibrox

MB62
17-05-2012, 10:03 AM
I just scrubbed my reply to all this as I don't want to start big arguements amongst ourselves at this important time in our history.
Suffice to say though I am a J.C. fan

GGTTH

lapsedhibee
17-05-2012, 10:03 AM
Aye like Kevin McCann at centre half against Inverness CT's bruisers?
Or Boozy at Centre half against the Hun?
Or a formation so shambolic against Celtic at ER that he had to hook Lewis after 15 mins?

Collins won us a cup, I'll always be glad for that. I always thought him a man of true sporting value and integrety and even if he's right, he should keep quiet.

Memory might be playing tricks, but I recall Boozy doing ok in that role. Remember he got ridiculously sent off, but not that his performance was ridiculous. Was it?

Just_Jimmy
17-05-2012, 10:05 AM
Memory might be playing tricks, but I recall Boozy doing ok in that role. Remember he got ridiculously sent off, but not that his performance was ridiculous. Was it?

Can't remember truth be told, I remember he was sent off but don't recall the details of the match.

The Modfather
17-05-2012, 10:13 AM
Aye like Kevin McCann at centre half against Inverness CT's bruisers?
Or Boozy at Centre half against the Hun?
Or a formation so shambolic against Celtic at ER that he had to hook Lewis after 15 mins?

Collins won us a cup, I'll always be glad for that. I always thought him a man of true sporting value and integrety and even if he's right, he should keep quiet.

Or Kevin Thomson at sweeper in a 3 at the back as we came back from 2 down at home to Aberdeen.

Or Murphy in at DM, keeping Scott Brown in his back pocket in a home win over Celtic.

The point is, he wasn't afraid to try things, and was excellent at reading a game and reacting. Rather than the succession of managers we've had who would wait until we conceded before reacting, which by then the game was gone.

I am an interested spectator at how he gets on at Livi, doing the job I feel he should have been doing at us. Be it as manager or in some other capacity, Director Of Youth Development or some such.

poolman
17-05-2012, 10:14 AM
Sounds like Collins isn't the only one who is bitter.

As per the bit in bold, if Collins won the cup with Mowbray's team (Mowbray couldn't win a cup with Mowbray's team) would it not also then be Mowbrays team that bottled it against Dunfermline? Or was it Mowbrays team when we won, and Collins team when we lost?

I'd have him Collins, with an assistant to help him, not Tomm Caig, back in a heartbeat. A fit, organised team with a manager who understands and actualy applies tactics. That's all I ask.


Aye, quite right, get him back so we can see a goalkeeper who's never allowed to kick the ball upfield as he always has to play from the back

Get him back so we can see a 5 foot guy weighing 7 stone in a wet duffel coat play centre half against the Sheep

Aye, let's get him back, I mean harmony in the dressing room is the last thing we want :rolleyes:

JeMeSouviens
17-05-2012, 10:45 AM
I just scrubbed my reply to all this as I don't want to start big arguements amongst ourselves at this important time in our history.
Suffice to say though I am a J.C. fan

GGTTH

I am also a JC fan and I'll remember him firstly as a wonderful player who left us in the right way (if such a thing is possible). Whatever the rights and wrongs of his time as manager, in this instance he is dead wrong and bang out of order saying so.

The Modfather
17-05-2012, 11:04 AM
[/B]

Aye, quite right, get him back so we can see a goalkeeper who's never allowed to kick the ball upfield as he always has to play from the back

Get him back so we can see a 5 foot guy weighing 7 stone in a wet duffel coat play centre half against the Sheep

Aye, let's get him back, I mean harmony in the dressing room is the last thing we want :rolleyes:

All hail those professional athletes we have had the last 5 years or so!

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 11:10 AM
All hail those professional athletes we have had the last 5 years or so!

Instead of walking away, why didn't he play those who did buy into his method of living life?

He walked away because he couldn't get his own way on a number of things, for me he acted like a spoilt brat.

Nobody can take away his cup win, one of the best days of my life and for that i will be eternally grateful.:top marks

Whats he doing now with all this untaped football genius he has?

The Modfather
17-05-2012, 11:20 AM
Instead of walking away, why didn't he play those who did buy into his method of living life?

He walked away because he couldn't get his own way on a number of things, for me he acted like a spoilt brat.

Nobody can take away his cup win, one of the best days of my life and for that i will be eternally grateful.:top marks

Whats he doing now with all this untaped football genius he has?

Why the snide "untaped football genius" comment?

He's currently at Livi, in a Director of Football/Youth Development capacity. Personaly, I feel livi's gain is very much our loss.

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 11:27 AM
Why the snide "untaped football genius" comment?

He's currently at Livi, in a Director of Football/Youth Development capacity. Personaly, I feel livi's gain is very much our loss.

Why no answer to why he walked? He left us in the lurch imo because he did not have the bottle for a fight. He's much too arrogant to be a manager, he cant tollerate anyone who does not have his vision, his man management skills are zero.

I knew he was at Livi, you must be surprised he's not at a major Premiership club, me personally i'm surprised he's at Livi, and fully expect him to walk out sometime next season if they are not romping the 1st division.

Biff Tannen
17-05-2012, 11:27 AM
Not sure how there is a connection between his time at Hibs and the current situation regarding rangers and Petrie's statement.

FWIW ... I will remember John Collins as the man who won the League Cup with Mowbrays team and the manager who weeks later failed to get the best team we have had for 20 years past a bog standard Dunfermline team and into a final against the poorest celtic team for a decade ... talk about a missed chance.

I will also remember him as a man who didnt have the bottle to prove himself as a manager by making the best of a small budget.

Most of the great managers have started out by making a silk purse out of a sows ear. Ferguson, McLean, Stein et al.

Not by walking away like a whiny bitch coz it looked like the going was getting tough.

As a football manager Mr Collins is currently residing in the where are they now file.

Spinal Tap :thumbsup:

Sean1875
17-05-2012, 11:28 AM
Memory might be playing tricks, but I recall Boozy doing ok in that role. Remember he got ridiculously sent off, but not that his performance was ridiculous. Was it?

Boozy had a brilliant game in that role :agree:

Jones28
17-05-2012, 11:36 AM
When he came in I said that the team would end up saying "aye right John" to his rubbish patter. And what did they do? That team won the CIS Cup despite him, not because of him. They all thought he was knob, you just have to look at their reactions and him walking about on his own on the pitch at the end.



Was he not upset because of Sunshine on Leith making him think of his Dad? Thats how I remembered it anyway.

Collins had that team playing better football than Mowbray IMHO, and I will always thank him as just as much as the team for winnning the CIS cup.

That being said, his comments on something that happened 5 years ago know are totally unrelated and poorly timed. Reeks of sour grapes - although having said that, if I had been in that position and not recieved the support I should have gotten from the Chariman I would be pretty PO'd too.

Weir7
17-05-2012, 11:55 AM
Or Kevin Thomson at sweeper in a 3 at the back as we came back from 2 down at home to Aberdeen.

Or Murphy in at DM, keeping Scott Brown in his back pocket in a home win over Celtic.

The point is, he wasn't afraid to try things, and was excellent at reading a game and reacting. Rather than the succession of managers we've had who would wait until we conceded before reacting, which by then the game was gone.

I am an interested spectator at how he gets on at Livi, doing the job I feel he should have been doing at us. Be it as manager or in some other capacity, Director Of Youth Development or some such.

It was mogga who played Thomo as sweeper.

JC was a romantic. The game at IIbrox when he first started at Ibrox where he insited in playing the ball out fae the keepr and they swamped us. He didn't have a plan b.

He was brave to make subs early when things weren't working.

He had zero man mangement skills. And couldn't spot a player. His signings were grim.

Brilliant to get Roger Propos on board.

JC I believe has a role to play at a fitba club - behind the scenes working perhaps with the youths.

The Falcon
17-05-2012, 11:55 AM
[/B]Was he not upset because of Sunshine on Leith making him think of his Dad? Thats how I remembered it anyway.

Collins had that team playing better football than Mowbray IMHO, and I will always thank him as just as much as the team for winnning the CIS cup.

That being said, his comments on something that happened 5 years ago know are totally unrelated and poorly timed. Reeks of sour grapes - although having said that, if I had been in that position and not recieved the support I should have gotten from the Chariman I would be pretty PO'd too.

Dont get this bit. Other than meet with the players en masse (rightly or wrongly depending on your opinion of Rod's duties) how else did Rod not give "the support" he should have gotten?

HKhibby
17-05-2012, 11:59 AM
Not sure how there is a connection between his time at Hibs and the current situation regarding rangers and Petrie's statement.

FWIW ... I will remember John Collins as the man who won the League Cup with Mowbrays team and the manager who weeks later failed to get the best team we have had for 20 years past a bog standard Dunfermline team and into a final against the poorest celtic team for a decade ... talk about a missed chance.

I will also remember him as a man who didnt have the bottle to prove himself as a manager by making the best of a small budget.

Most of the great managers have started out by making a silk purse out of a sows ear. Ferguson, McLean, Stein et al.

Not by walking away like a whiny bitch coz it looked like the going was getting tough.

As a football manager Mr Collins is currently residing in the where are they now file.

Well said...totally agree, never liked the man

Pretty Boy
17-05-2012, 11:59 AM
Dont get this bit. Other than meet with the players en masse (rightly or wrongly depending on your opinion of Rod's duties) how else did Rod not give "the support" he should have gotten?

Exactly.

There is this myth that hangs around that Rod 'backed the players'

The players were told at that meeting that whilst their concerns were noted, JC was the boss and that was that.

JC remained in his position and several of the ring leaders of the 'rebellion' were shipped out the club in the summer.

MB62
17-05-2012, 12:04 PM
Dont get this bit. Other than meet with the players en masse (rightly or wrongly depending on your opinion of Rod's duties) how else did Rod not give "the support" he should have gotten?

financially in the transfer market?

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 12:06 PM
[/B]Was he not upset because of Sunshine on Leith making him think of his Dad? Thats how I remembered it anyway.

Collins had that team playing better football than Mowbray IMHO, and I will always thank him as just as much as the team for winnning the CIS cup.

That being said, his comments on something that happened 5 years ago know are totally unrelated and poorly timed. Reeks of sour grapes - although having said that, if I had been in that position and not recieved the support I should have gotten from the Chariman I would be pretty PO'd too.

:confused:
He was supported by Petrie, who also wanted him to stay as manager, although i dont know why?

The Modfather
17-05-2012, 12:08 PM
Instead of walking away, why didn't he play those who did buy into his method of living life?

He walked away because he couldn't get his own way on a number of things, for me he acted like a spoilt brat.

Nobody can take away his cup win, one of the best days of my life and for that i will be eternally grateful.:top marks

Whats he doing now with all this untaped football genius he has?

He did didn't he? The likes of Stevensons and Mcann.

The truth probably lyes somewhere in the middle, yes there was an element of acting like a spoilt brat, but I'd imagine a lot of that was born out of frustration at being unable to change the culture within the club. I don't think the subsequent 5 years since Collins paints him in a negative light. We've had a squad being told half way through a season they weren't fit enough!

Not sure where you got your impression from that I must be dissapointed he is not managing in the Premiership. I see Collins as a guy that has made his money from a hugely successfull career, and as a result can pick and choose what projects he wants to work on, if indeed working on any at all.

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 12:28 PM
He did didn't he? The likes of Stevensons and Mcann.

Others bought into his ideas too, they just had minds of their own as well, something Collins couldnt handle imo.

The truth probably lyes somewhere in the middle, yes there was an element of acting like a spoilt brat, but I'd imagine a lot of that was born out of frustration at being unable to change the culture within the club. I don't think the subsequent 5 years since Collins paints him in a negative light. We've had a squad being told half way through a season they weren't fit enough!

So you agree he acted like a spoilt brat, probably due to frustration i agree. His management skills were shown up to be what they are by his walking away. Managers with fight and vision see it through, he bailed out because he couldn't get his own way and was not up to the battle for the long run.

Not sure where you got your impression from that I must be dissapointed he is not managing in the Premiership. I see Collins as a guy that has made his money from a hugely successfull career, and as a result can pick and choose what projects he wants to work on, if indeed working on any at all.

I think you have hit the nail on the head, he's fine when things are going well, but is that financially secure, he can just walk away at the slightest set back. He's never going to get a huge job in the EPL without doing his apprenticeship first, and he's not showing any signs so far of doing that imo.

PaulSmith
17-05-2012, 12:46 PM
If Collins has the bottle and faith in his own ability I suggest that he would've stayed at ER and possibly may have been the man to deliver both the league and Scottish cup within 5 years.
He didn't, for whatever reason, and we now have Fenlon leading us into the final on Sat.

Time to look forward instead of 'might have beens'

The Modfather
17-05-2012, 01:14 PM
I think you have hit the nail on the head, he's fine when things are going well, but is that financially secure, he can just walk away at the slightest set back. He's never going to get a huge job in the EPL without doing his apprenticeship first, and he's not showing any signs so far of doing that imo.

Look at Steve Keane, does he have "fight and vision"? Or, despite his position becoming untenable, is he sticking it out in part because he needs the job. Collins doesn't need a job for financial reasons, so what you describe as "acting like a spoilt brat", I also attribute a large part to him being in a position to walk away for the sake of both parties without needing a pay off or a new job to go to.

Collins identified, and tried to change the problems and culture at Easter Road. Unfortunately he wasn't able to do this. 5 years later the same problems are still evident, despite the mass turnover of players. That, to me anyway, dilutes the view that Collins was some draconian manager with no people skills (dilutes, I didn't say I dismissed it out of hand). It, suggests to me he was actualy very brave, in that his view was transforming the club into a modern club because he was the ultimite professional as a player, and the club means a lot to him. Other managers, who are only in it for the money/career progression, are happy to think short term, and worry how their CV looks as opposed to what the club actualy needs.

--------
17-05-2012, 01:25 PM
[/B]Was he not upset because of Sunshine on Leith making him think of his Dad? Thats how I remembered it anyway.

Collins had that team playing better football than Mowbray IMHO, and I will always thank him as just as much as the team for winnning the CIS cup.

That being said, his comments on something that happened 5 years ago know are totally unrelated and poorly timed. Reeks of sour grapes - although having said that, if I had been in that position and not recieved the support I should have gotten from the Chariman I would be pretty PO'd too.


IIRC he walked out the day after the club had opened a £5,000,000 training complex, having been allowed a transfer budget that brought in nine new players, most of whom were really not good enough for the First Division, ever mind the SPL. That included two £300,000 fees - that was for O'Brien and Makalambay - the sort of fees Pat Fenlon would love to be able to offer for players this close season. That doesn't suggest to me that the Chairman wasn't supporting him the way he deserved.

His man-management skills were poor, to say the least, and at times he seemed to be going out of his way to offend the players. I remember Rob Jones sitting in the stands at a pre-season with Middlesborough with his family who had come up to see him play. How much would it have cost to give him the second half? Joneleit played the whole game - and then only another 2 or 3 in total. And after Collins had praised him up no end as a great prospect, he was dropped because, according to Collins, he "had to learn to head the ball before he played again"!

After he left. Mixu stated publicly that the atmosphere in the Hibs dressingroom when he arrived was utterly poisonous, so bad there was nothing he could do to sort things out. He would have had to clear out the entire squad almost before he would have had a chance to turn things around. And we're still suffering from Collins's legacy of dissension. He took on a job he wasn't ready for, and ultimately walked away when the heat got too much for him. He should maintain a dignified silence.

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 01:42 PM
Look at Steve Keane, does he have "fight and vision"? Or, despite his position becoming untenable, is he sticking it out in part because he needs the job. Collins doesn't need a job for financial reasons, so what you describe as "acting like a spoilt brat", I also attribute a large part to him being in a position to walk away for the sake of both parties without needing a pay off or a new job to go to.

Collins identified, and tried to change the problems and culture at Easter Road. Unfortunately he wasn't able to do this. 5 years later the same problems are still evident, despite the mass turnover of players. That, to me anyway, dilutes the view that Collins was some draconian manager with no people skills (dilutes, I didn't say I dismissed it out of hand). It, suggests to me he was actualy very brave, in that his view was transforming the club into a modern club because he was the ultimite professional as a player, and the club means a lot to him. Other managers, who are only in it for the money/career progression, are happy to think short term, and worry how their CV looks as opposed to what the club actualy needs.

So whittling it down into a few words, nae heart for the battle, it was easy to walk away. Backed to the hilt by the board, spent a fortune on duds but jumped because those duds were making him look bad.


In summary, looking after number 1.

iain nolan
17-05-2012, 01:45 PM
i have seen 3 managers win cups at easter road and hope its 4 come sat.
TURNBULL best off the 3 managers to win silver in my day
MILLER servered the club well when boards where worse than today saw us though hands off hibs
COLLINS won us up then left .

so lets not forget he know his budget before taking the job and left the team worse off and we still not recovered fixing out his mess :pfgwa

Billy Whizz
17-05-2012, 02:04 PM
Collins took over a failing Mowbray team

97hills
17-05-2012, 03:07 PM
Collins really was our big chance to revolutionize our club.

No other manager is likely to come to the club in the circumstances he did. He was attempting to change the club from top to bottom with every aspect of the game especially the professionalism of the players. He's definitely got enough money of his own and ambition that he could of been at this club for years and years and not move on to a bigger club if success came his way. Every other manager we can hope for will jump ship if they are successful.

Some parts weren't great but I think we were far more likely to have long term success under someone like him than anybody else because, as we saw with Mowbray, our club has to start all over again as soon as our successful managers move on. I like the look of Fenlon but I get the impression that we will be a stepping stone if he does well.

Massive opportunity missed with Collins in my opinion, an opportunity that I don't think we'll have again for a long time.

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 03:12 PM
Collins really was our big chance to revolutionize our club.

No other manager is likely to come to the club in the circumstances he did. He was attempting to change the club from top to bottom with every aspect of the game especially the professionalism of the players. He's definitely got enough money of his own and ambition that he could of been at this club for years and years and not move on to a bigger club if success came his way. Every other manager we can hope for will jump ship if they are successful.

Some parts weren't great but I think we were far more likely to have long term success under someone like him than anybody else because, as we saw with Mowbray, our club has to start all over again as soon as our successful managers move on. I like the look of Fenlon but I get the impression that we will be a stepping stone if he does well.

Massive opportunity missed with Collins in my opinion, an opportunity that I don't think we'll have again for a long time.

All of that could only come true if collins was willing to see the job through, warts and all. That was not the case, and he's hardly a sought after man now even though i'd imagine he has the same ideas?

The Falcon
17-05-2012, 03:24 PM
financially in the transfer market?


He spent more money than his two (three) predecessors and the two (three) that followed him, so far at least.

97hills
17-05-2012, 03:25 PM
All of that could only come true if collins was willing to see the job through, warts and all. That was not the case, and he's hardly a sought after man now even though i'd imagine he has the same ideas?

How do you know he's not been sought after? I would assume the other way, that he has been offered quite a few jobs but doesn't want to be just be a youth team coach. However, both of our views are just speculation so it's hard to say for sure. He will have plenty of cash from his career and I imagine the TV work he does is far more lucrative than being a manager at the majority of clubs. It seemed to me that he was holding out for a club where he would have complete control of everything from top to bottom such as Wenger or Ferguson. I imagine that's why he's went to a club like Livingston where he can try this. I'm almost positive he could get a higher wage and probably a higher calibre of club elsewhere but I don't think that interests him and that's why I really think we missed the boat with him

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 03:32 PM
How do you know he's not been sought after? I would assume the other way, that he has been offered quite a few jobs but doesn't want to be just be a youth team coach. However, both of our views are just speculation so it's hard to say for sure. He will have plenty of cash from his career and I imagine the TV work he does is far more lucrative than being a manager at the majority of clubs. It seemed to me that he was holding out for a club where he would have complete control of everything from top to bottom such as Wenger or Ferguson. I imagine that's why he's went to a club like Livingston where he can try this. I'm almost positive he could get a higher wage and probably a higher calibre of club elsewhere but I don't think that interests him and that's why I really think we missed the boat with him

How many clubs are seeking a manager who wasted a huge amount of money like he did, and also how many clubs are seeking a manager who jumps ship at the slightest problem?

Hibs were that club you describe above, yet he bailed out. How many clubs do not have problems like he encountered at Hibs?

Also i keep hearing we missed the boat with collins, that would only be the case if we sacked him.

Jones28
17-05-2012, 03:35 PM
Dont get this bit. Other than meet with the players en masse (rightly or wrongly depending on your opinion of Rod's duties) how else did Rod not give "the support" he should have gotten?

If there is a dispute between players and managers the Charimen should be there to mediate, not meet the players privately behind the managers back. Then he should have said that the managers' word is what goes, if you don't like it then that's tough ****, it's not his job to be nice and go easy on you, it's his job to win football matches.

And it wasn't en masse like you say, as far as I can remember a group of players that were disgruntled went to Petrie to complain. If all the playing staff had gone then it would have been en masse and justified, but instead it was a select few who went. Why did the captain not go himself or ask Petrie to arrange a meeting between himself and JC? The whole thing stunk of players bleating to the chairman instead of actually dealing with the problem. It made Colins' position untenable.

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 03:42 PM
If there is a dispute between players and managers the Charimen should be there to mediate, not meet the players privately behind the managers back. Then he should have said that the managers' word is what goes, if you don't like it then that's tough ****, it's not his job to be nice and go easy on you, it's his job to win football matches.

And it wasn't en masse like you say, as far as I can remember a group of players that were disgruntled went to Petrie to complain. If all the playing staff had gone then it would have been en masse and justified, but instead it was a select few who went. Why did the captain not go himself or ask Petrie to arrange a meeting between himself and JC? The whole thing stunk of players bleating to the chairman instead of actually dealing with the problem. It made Colins' position untenable.

The players did it the cowards way, waiting until Collins was out the country. They had tried to have it out with Collins, but he was not wavering, and had become virtually unapproachable with his arrogance.

Petrie had no option but to speak with them, he is the next in line. He told them in no uncertain terms, Collins was manager, he was the boss and what he says goes.

Petrie did not back the players, and backed Collins to the hilt, even asking him to reconsider his decision to leave.

Only one man was not up for the fight, and that was collins.:confused:

Jones28
17-05-2012, 03:45 PM
IIRC he walked out the day after the club had opened a £5,000,000 training complex, having been allowed a transfer budget that brought in nine new players, most of whom were really not good enough for the First Division, ever mind the SPL. That included two £300,000 fees - that was for O'Brien and Makalambay - the sort of fees Pat Fenlon would love to be able to offer for players this close season. That doesn't suggest to me that the Chairman wasn't supporting him the way he deserved.

His man-management skills were poor, to say the least, and at times he seemed to be going out of his way to offend the players. I remember Rob Jones sitting in the stands at a pre-season with Middlesborough with his family who had come up to see him play. How much would it have cost to give him the second half? Joneleit played the whole game - and then only another 2 or 3 in total. And after Collins had praised him up no end as a great prospect, he was dropped because, according to Collins, he "had to learn to head the ball before he played again"!

After he left. Mixu stated publicly that the atmosphere in the Hibs dressingroom when he arrived was utterly poisonous, so bad there was nothing he could do to sort things out. He would have had to clear out the entire squad almost before he would have had a chance to turn things around. And we're still suffering from Collins's legacy of dissension. He took on a job he wasn't ready for, and ultimately walked away when the heat got too much for him. He should maintain a dignified silence.

No arguing with his man management skills, they were absolutely atrocious.

However I can't help feeling that had the players been more proffesional in their attitudes then the whole thing could have been avoided. Colins did not leave a legacy, he is only remembered because he tried to change the previous one - which was all but in taters by the time Mowbray left. There was something about slipping standards at the club and he tried to change that. Mixu came in and tried to, as did Hughes...Calderwood doesn't bear thinking about. I don't know what the legacy at ER is these days, but it was not all JC's doing.

Jones28
17-05-2012, 03:50 PM
The players did it the cowards way, waiting until Collins was out the country. They had tried to have it out with Collins, but he was not wavering, and had become virtually unapproachable with his arrogance.

Petrie had no option but to speak with them, he is the next in line. He told them in no uncertain terms, Collins was manager, he was the boss and what he says goes.

Petrie did not back the players, and backed Collins to the hilt, even asking him to reconsider his decision to leave.

Only one man was not up for the fight, and that was collins.:confused:

Collins was unapproachable, agreed :agree:

I just felt Collins was hounded out by the attitude of the players.

JimBHibees
17-05-2012, 03:58 PM
All of that could only come true if collins was willing to see the job through, warts and all. That was not the case, and he's hardly a sought after man now even though i'd imagine he has the same ideas?

Nail on head, says it all with his contacts in France and England that they arent knocking the door down if he was such a managerial revolutionary. I am sure he had some good ideas and it worked for a short time however it was clearly going pear shaped when he left and his relationship with the players was IMO awful.

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 04:01 PM
Collins was unapproachable, agreed :agree:

I just felt Collins was hounded out by the attitude of the players.

From what i heard from a coach at the club, he had become so up his own erse, he thought he was god, and there's only one man who can claim that mantle. :wink:

Where i disagree with you about the players hounding him out, is he had it in his power to get rid of whoever he wanted, it would have taken time to get his vision done, as it would with any club he went to. He was given every tool needed to be a success at Hibs, but he spent a fortune on some of the worst duds seen at easter road in a long time.

He spat his dummy out, the very same thing he accused the players of doing. His financial situation made it easy for him to walk.

--------
17-05-2012, 04:01 PM
No arguing with his man management skills, they were absolutely atrocious.

However I can't help feeling that had the players been more proffesional in their attitudes then the whole thing could have been avoided. Colins did not leave a legacy, he is only remembered because he tried to change the previous one - which was all but in taters by the time Mowbray left. There was something about slipping standards at the club and he tried to change that. Mixu came in and tried to, as did Hughes...Calderwood doesn't bear thinking about. I don't know what the legacy at ER is these days, but it was not all JC's doing.


Didn't suggest it was ALL his doing, but Mixu suffered because of the tensions and antagonisms he left behind him in the squad - after all, one of the main jobs of the manager is to get all the players pulling together as a team. Collins also initiated the process whereby we lose half a squad every summer, and end up scraping for replacements right up to the end of the window.

I agree about the players attitudes - he came into the job and was immediately confronted by the Thomson/Brown business - neither of those players did anything to make his job easy in any way, in fact they went out of their way to be as difficult as possible. (Collins didn't help himself out-toughing Scott Brown in the gym - can't think of a better way to get SB's back up TBH.) He didn't get the unequivocal support he was entitled to from his captain, either.

97hills
17-05-2012, 04:08 PM
How many clubs are seeking a manager who wasted a huge amount of money like he did, and also how many clubs are seeking a manager who jumps ship at the slightest problem?

Hibs were that club you describe above, yet he bailed out. How many clubs do not have problems like he encountered at Hibs?

Also i keep hearing we missed the boat with collins, that would only be the case if we sacked him.

Wasted a huge amount of money? Didn't his conviction of what players were worth get the club an extra £4 million or so?

Jumps ship at the slightest problem? Him and Petrie clearly didn't see eye to eye but you could argue he saved the club money by walking rather than sacking him and paying compensation. I think it's fairer to say that the level of ambition Collins has, wasn't matched in the sort of players he could buy. Now that's a far bigger debate that's been done a hundred times on this board. I don't think we need to go into it but the underlying factor was Collins believed he should get more of a transfer purse than he got instead of having to get players in who weren't even in the top 5 of his wishlist for a specific position. That was his belief and that's why he walked. Whether it was right or wrong it's hard to say but I think this is the only thing it boils down to.

His signings didn't cover him in glory but that could have been Tommy Craig's doing. It could of been his own scouting but I guess we'll also never know for sure. However, I think the most important factor and what seems to be the fairer comparison is that the next 3 managers were able to do no better in the transfer market. Will hold judgement on the current man in charge.

Littlest Hobo
17-05-2012, 05:26 PM
Petrie sold most of our talent and JC was expected to work miracles with little budget/ wages.

The players were lazy arsed twats that didn't want to come back for extra training in the afternoon, do they all went round Petries Hoose behind the managers back.

Take JC and his big ideas everyday of the week.

The Falcon
17-05-2012, 05:46 PM
Petrie sold most of our talent and JC was expected to work miracles with little budget/ wages.

The players were lazy arsed twats that didn't want to come back for extra training in the afternoon, do they all went round Petries Hoose behind the managers back.

Take JC and his big ideas everyday of the week.


Begged to stay did they?

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 05:52 PM
Petrie sold most of our talent and JC was expected to work miracles with little budget/ wages.

The players were lazy arsed twats that didn't want to come back for extra training in the afternoon, do they all went round Petries Hoose behind the managers back.

Take JC and his big ideas everyday of the week.

Utter nonsense, JC was the man who could have changed anything he thought was wrong, but rather than stay and fight for what he wanted, he chose the easy way out. Collins is a quitter, i dont want quitters ANY DAY of the week.

Littlest Hobo
17-05-2012, 06:30 PM
Begged to stay did they?

Why would he stay when our chairman was having secret meetings behind his back.

Collins suffered as our best talent was sold.
Collins then felt the thriftiness of the tash and had deal in the dregs of the transfer market.
Our chairman and board made decisions back them like building new stands instead of investing in the team and and paying wages.
We have suffered ever since. Cup final excluded our club is and has been in a **** state on the park,

Littlest Hobo
17-05-2012, 06:37 PM
Utter nonsense, JC was the man who could have changed anything he thought was wrong, but rather than stay and fight for what he wanted, he chose the easy way out. Collins is a quitter, i dont want quitters ANY DAY of the week.

Ye right Collins is a quitter, you obviously don't know the man, never watched him play or you wouldn't come out with such pish.

You believe what you like, I believe Collins position was untenable after being. back stabbed by our current chairman. Fact!!

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 06:43 PM
Ye right Collins is a quitter, you obviously don't know the man, never watched him play or you wouldn't come out with such pish.

You believe what you like, I believe Collins position was untenable after being. back stabbed by our current chairman. Fact!!

You are right i dont know the man, i saw him play plenty of times for Hibs and Scotland though, a fine player one of the best.

What did our current chairman do to make his position untenable?

Littlest Hobo
17-05-2012, 06:43 PM
If there is a dispute between players and managers the Charimen should be there to mediate, not meet the players privately behind the managers back. Then he should have said that the managers' word is what goes, if you don't like it then that's tough ****, it's not his job to be nice and go easy on you, it's his job to win football matches.

And it wasn't en masse like you say, as far as I can remember a group of players that were disgruntled went to Petrie to complain. If all the playing staff had gone then it would have been en masse and justified, but instead it was a select few who went. Why did the captain not go himself or ask Petrie to arrange a meeting between himself and JC? The whole thing stunk of players bleating to the chairman instead of actually dealing with the problem. It made Colins' position untenable.

This is the way it happened.
I can't believe there Hibs supporters calling JC a quitter. As anyone who knows the man or watched him play will know JC is not the type to quit for no reason. This man shed tears in the CF for this club, all he got in return was stabbed in the back.

Peevemor
17-05-2012, 06:43 PM
Why would he stay when our chairman was having secret meetings behind his back.

The players asked for a meeting with RP who is effectively their employer. RP met with them but backed the manager. The players apology was issued via Rob Jones shortly thereafter.


Collins suffered as our best talent was sold.

True, but other than forcing players who didn't want to be there to carry on playing, the club had no choice but to sell them.



Collins then felt the thriftiness of the tash and had deal in the dregs of the transfer market.
Our chairman and board made decisions back them like building new stands instead of investing in the team and and paying wages.

Hibs' player budget has been increasing every year and is consistently the 4th highest in the SPL - I'm not even sure we have the 4th highest turnover in the SPL.


We have suffered ever since. Cup final excluded our club is and has been in a **** state on the park,

A lot of that is due to the piss poor squad assembled by JC.

Littlest Hobo
17-05-2012, 06:45 PM
You are right i dont know the man, i saw him play plenty of times for Hibs and Scotland though, a fine player one of the best.

What did our current chairman do to make his position untenable?

He met the players at his home behind the managers back.

iain nolan
17-05-2012, 06:46 PM
john collins did come over as he know it all. something the players would have fund hard to accept. yes he was a great player but lets not forget this was his first managers job. surly he need to get the players playing for him not having them go to the board about him .something must have been very wrong for the players to go this far. collins talked a good game but could not deliver. he was given money and brought us duds i cant think off one good signing. i think his financial situation didt help as i think he thought he was above everbody at easter road but fund out no one is bigger than the club . he walked out on hibees and thats something great managers never do they wait till they get sacked. hope its pat and not him on the tv as i not got ticket:flag:
From what i heard from a coach at the club, he had become so up his own erse, he thought he was god, and there's only one man who can claim that mantle. :wink:

Where i disagree with you about the players hounding him out, is he had it in his power to get rid of whoever he wanted, it would have taken time to get his vision done, as it would with any club he went to. He was given every tool needed to be a success at Hibs, but he spent a fortune on some of the worst duds seen at easter road in a long time.

He spat his dummy out, the very same thing he accused the players of doing. His financial situation made it easy for him to walk.

yekimevol
17-05-2012, 06:48 PM
im not allowed to talk about mr collins anymore.

Peevemor
17-05-2012, 06:48 PM
He met the players at his home behind the managers back.

And told the players that JC was the manager, therefore he was in charge.

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 06:50 PM
He met the players at his home behind the managers back.

He met SOME of the players at home, at their request. Collins was not in the country. Petrie is their employer and is duty bound to meet an employee should they want a meeting. He met the players and told them in no uncertain terms that Collins was the boss, not them.

He backed Collins to the hilt, and told the players he was doing so. What did Petrie do wrong?

Littlest Hobo
17-05-2012, 06:59 PM
The players asked for a meeting with RP who is effectively their employer. RP met with them but backed the manager. The players apology was issued via Rob Jones shortly thereafter.

The chairman shouldn't have entertained the players. If players have an issue with the manager then tough.
That's football.
Do you think this would happen at Manchester United? Not a chance!
Fergie shouts jump, players shout how high. That's the way it should be.
That's what we need at Easter Road.

True, but other than forcing players who didn't want to be there to carry on playing, the club had no choice but to sell them.
Yes but he gave Rod a list of players, first option, second option, third option and so on.
RP comes back to JC with option 10




Hibs' player budget has been increasing every year and is consistently the 4th highest in the SPL - I'm not even sure we have the 4th highest turnover in the SPL.
Our budget should have been allot more considering the money we had just brought in. Reinvestment in the team never happened. JC jumped ship when he realised he was being mugged off.


A lot of that is due to the piss poor squad assembled by JC.

Allot of this is due to lack of reinvestment into the squad.

Littlest Hobo
17-05-2012, 07:02 PM
He met SOME of the players at home, at their request. Collins was not in the country. Petrie is their employer and is duty bound to meet an employee should they want a meeting. He met the players and told them in no uncertain terms that Collins was the boss, not them.

He backed Collins to the hilt, and told the players he was doing so. What did Petrie do wrong?

I don't believe he backed JC, and if you heard him on the radio lady night he is absolutely bitter about this meeting between players and chairman.
Doesn't sound like he got RP backing to me, sorry!

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 07:13 PM
Allot of this is due to lack of reinvestment into the squad.

Changing your argument now aren't we?


I don't believe he backed JC, and if you heard him on the radio lady night he is absolutely bitter about this meeting between players and chairman.
Doesn't sound like he got RP backing to me, sorry!

That says more about Collins than anything else, he quit with the chairman trying to talk him out of doing so. He also backed collins with more money, 900k if my memory is right, and he *****ed it on Calamity, Kerr and the invisible winger. Along with Gatheussi and the likes, he was making us much weaker.

Hibercelona
17-05-2012, 07:13 PM
Did JC walk away though?

Or did he resign because the club told him that he was going to be sacked and he wanted to leave with a bit of dignity perhaps?

And to be quite honest, I don't know how anybody couldn't share his vision of the game. His vision was spot on, even if the standard of players he brought in weren't great the first time round.

I personally think he'll go on and have a really strong managerial career, but as another poster stated, we should be looking ahead and not backwards.

Fenlon is our man now and we should be focused on backing him and leaving the past behind us.

Only one thing matters right now. Lets just focus on that.

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 07:14 PM
Did JC walk away though?

Or did he resign because the club told him that he was going to be sacked and he wanted to leave with a bit of dignity perhaps?

And to be quite honest, I don't know how anybody couldn't share his vision of the game. His vision was spot on, even if the standard of players he brought in weren't great the first time round.

I personally think he'll go on and have a really strong managerial career, but as another poster stated, we should be looking ahead and not backwards.

Fenlon is our man now and we should be focused on backing him and leaving the past behind us.

Only one thing matters right now. Lets just focus on that.

Of course he resigned, watch the interviews with Petrie after he did.:confused::confused:

Hibercelona
17-05-2012, 07:18 PM
Of course he resigned, watch the interviews with Petrie after he did.:confused::confused:

I know full well he resigned.

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 07:22 PM
I know full well he resigned.

He was not being sacked, Petrie wanted him to stay, virtually begged him to retract his resignation.

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 07:26 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/7153893.stm

Collins had taken Hibs as far as he could, that was apparent especially when you see who he's signed. All that when he knew exactly what he was getting to spend from the very first minute he walked through the door.

And the day he walked out, he knew where at least £5m of what he'd taken in transfer fee's that summer had been spent on, but no, he wanted more.

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 07:30 PM
I don't believe he backed JC, and if you heard him on the radio lady night he is absolutely bitter about this meeting between players and chairman.
Doesn't sound like he got RP backing to me, sorry!

A quote from Collins himself about this meeting, is he telling porkies?

Collins may have ended Hibernian's 16-year wait for a trophy, but he did not have everything his own way in Leith. Barely a fortnight after the CIS Cup final victory over Kilmarnock, Collins was facing a rebellion from several first-team players which he managed to see off.

When asked in April whether he could be forced to turn his back on his first managerial job, Collins replied: "Don't be ridiculous." He added at the time: "You have to be thick-skinned, focused, determined and know where you want to go."

The Falcon
17-05-2012, 07:33 PM
He met the players at his home behind the managers back.

So after he met the players, as their employer, what did he do?

Who sacked Michael Stewart?

JimBHibees
17-05-2012, 07:35 PM
He met SOME of the players at home, at their request. Collins was not in the country. Petrie is their employer and is duty bound to meet an employee should they want a meeting. He met the players and told them in no uncertain terms that Collins was the boss, not them.

He backed Collins to the hilt, and told the players he was doing so. What did Petrie do wrong?

He had a funny looking moustache? :greengrin

blackpoolhibs
17-05-2012, 07:37 PM
He had a funny looking moustache? :greengrin

Yip on that i agree, its so 1970's. Mind you if we had a team like we did in the early 70's, i'd bloody grow one too. :greengrin

Littlest Hobo
18-05-2012, 03:50 PM
A quote from Collins himself about this meeting, is he telling porkies?

Collins may have ended Hibernian's 16-year wait for a trophy, but he did not have everything his own way in Leith. Barely a fortnight after the CIS Cup final victory over Kilmarnock, Collins was facing a rebellion from several first-team players which he managed to see off.

When asked in April whether he could be forced to turn his back on his first managerial job, Collins replied: "Don't be ridiculous." He added at the time: "You have to be thick-skinned, focused, determined and know where you want to go."

I believe JC, you believe RP. Let's leave it at that.
I just got really excited listening to JC, who is a proven talent as a player. He knows what it takes to succeed.
All the new training methods he was tailing about making us the fittest team in the league.
It was all very disappointing how all went wrong.
We are where we are now with wee Pat, let's hope he can turn our fortunes around as of tomorrow. Enjoy!