Daily Mail supports Fascist Candidate (French pres. election 2012)

[hibsbollah]

Hurrah For The Blackshirts! (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2132611/French-elections-2012-Marine-Le-Pen-responsible-vote-France.html)

[da-robster]

Colour me shocked.

[RyeSloan]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2132611/French-elections-2012-Marine-Le-Pen-responsible-vote-France.html

Hurrah For The Blackshirts!

Wow. And their justification for doing so.....to stop a slide into the 'morass of multiculturalism'

That's it. Nothing else. They make it even worse by accepting that her economic policies are bonkers yet who cares as long as she closes the borders.

[Big Ed]

Hurrah For The Blackshirts! (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2132611/French-elections-2012-Marine-Le-Pen-responsible-vote-France.html)

I am curious about the motives of the Daily Mail in publishing this piece: it slates Sarkozy, barely mentions Hollande, dismisses Mélenchon, yet claims that despite her economic policies being foolish and futile and her campaign being poor and indistinct, the only responsible vote in France is one for Marine Le Pen.
The reason: her party has highlighted the country's right to defend its national identity.
Since when did the Mail give a monkey's about French national identity?
It might well be testing the water here: there are increasing indications that Cameron is becoming increasingly unpopular with the Right (e.g. the pasting he took in the right wing press regarding the Budget). Like Sarkozy in France, he is seen as not delivering. By endorsing Le Pen; might we see more positive press for Griffin (or more likely) Farage in an attempt to deliver a shot across Dave's bows?

[Betty Boop]

After the first round of voting, the socialist Francois Hollande is in the lead.

[Peevemor]

After the first round of voting, the socialist Francois Hollande is in the lead.

This'll go right to the wire. The second, deciding vote is in a fortnight - a straight fight between Sarko & Hollande. If you add all the left wing votes (7 candidates) and all the right wing votes (2 candidates) it's pretty neck and neck. The liberal vote (about 9%) is crucial and I'd imagine they'll swing more to Hollande.

Two major things frighten me.

Le Penn (National Front) looks to have got about 17-18% of the vote :wtf:
A socialist government wouldn't necessarily worry me, but Hollande is a clown of the highest order.

[RyeSloan]

This'll go right to the wire. The second, deciding vote is in a fortnight - a straight fight between Sarko & Hollande. If you add all the left wing votes (7 candidates) and all the right wing votes (2 candidates) it's pretty neck and neck. The liberal vote (about 9%) is crucial and I'd imagine they'll swing more to Hollande.

Two major things frighten me.

Le Penn (National Front) looks to have got about 17-18% of the vote :wtf:
A socialist government wouldn't necessarily worry me, but Hollande is a clown of the highest order.


You have to pity the French voter...when Sarko seems to be the sensible mainstream choice you know you are in trouble!!

[lyonhibs]

This'll go right to the wire. The second, deciding vote is in a fortnight - a straight fight between Sarko & Hollande. If you add all the left wing votes (7 candidates) and all the right wing votes (2 candidates) it's pretty neck and neck. The liberal vote (about 9%) is crucial and I'd imagine they'll swing more to Hollande.

Two major things frighten me.

Le Penn (National Front) looks to have got about 17-18% of the vote :wtf:
A socialist government wouldn't necessarily worry me, but Hollande is a clown of the highest order.

I'm astounded that Hollande even got to be the Socialist's candidate - he's never even been a government minister. His track record isn't even bad, it's simply non-existent.

There's a famous pic of Hollande with various quotes about him, a lot from his own side and 1 from his ex-wife. They all said much the same thing:

"He's made a career of doing f*** all"

Extreme left have pinned their flag to the Hollande mast for the second round unsurprisingly. MLP keeping schtum.

[Peevemor]

I'm astounded that Hollande even got to be the Socialist's candidate - he's never even been a government minister. His track record isn't even bad, it's simply non-existent.

There's a famous pic of Hollande with various quotes about him, a lot from his own side and 1 from his ex-wife. They all said much the same thing:

"He's made a career of doing f*** all"

Extreme left have pinned their flag to the Hollande mast for the second round unsurprisingly. MLP keeping schtum.

Le Pen isn't saying much because one of the Front National's main policies is to reduce the EU's powers and to revert back from the Euro to a national currency. Since both Sarko and Hollande are pro-EU she'll look hypocritical if she pronounces for either of them. In addition,the French parliamentary elections are to be held at the beginning of June and Le Pen wants the FN to become the stongest opposition party. Also, Le Pen/the FN have spent the campaign saying that they are not right wing, but simply nationalists. Flinging her weight behind Sarko would show this up for the fib that it is.

As for the hard left, Jean-Luc Mélenchon (who's great craic to watch and listen to), the "Front de Gauche" candidate who got about 11% of the vote, very deliberately told his supporters to vote against Sarkozy as opposed to for Hollande. Although it amounts to the same thing, the wording tells it's own story.

[heretoday]

French politics is much more interesting than ours.

Our parliament is a middle-of-the-road melange. There's very little difference between the main parties. Someone like Galloway gets treated like a dangerous extremist by all the party press offices and their friendly newspapers.

Meanwhile the corruption and incompetence goes on in the background.

[Phil D. Rolls]

This thread is just further evidence of the left's smugness. I have no fear at all about the value of my house should Ms Le Pen abolish elections in the future.

[yeezus.]

I wonder if they will come out for the NF in this country.

I was disgusted when I saw NATIONAL FRONT on my ballot paper today. Thankfully racists never make breakthrough's in Scotland.

[Pete]

I wonder if they will come out for the NF in this country.

I was disgusted when I saw NATIONAL FRONT on my ballot paper today. Thankfully racists never make breakthrough's in Scotland.

In your opinion they are racists so you don't vote for them. What about those who do agree with their policies...they can vote for them and have their opinions, right or wrong, channeled and expressed. Even with this type of election you should still have the option to express yourself.

I like seeing extreme parties on my ballot paper because it makes me feel democracy is really at work and everyone has a real choice. I had the four main parties on my ballot paper. Not one from the left or right and not even one independent. I didn't really want to give any of these boring, middle of the road, wishy-washy suits my vote.

I felt like writing "none of the above please".

[hibsbollah]

Meanwhile, the BNP are close to extinction :aok:

http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/04/bnp-local-elections-electoral-force-finished?cat=commentisfree&type=article

[Phil D. Rolls]

In your opinion they are racists so you don't vote for them. What about those who do agree with their policies...they can vote for them and have their opinions, right or wrong, channeled and expressed. Even with this type of election you should still have the option to express yourself.

I like seeing extreme parties on my ballot paper because it makes me feel democracy is really at work and everyone has a real choice. I had the four main parties on my ballot paper. Not one from the left or right and not even one independent. I didn't really want to give any of these boring, middle of the road, wishy-washy suits my vote.

I felt like writing "none of the above please".

I agree, the continued failure of the far right to make any inroad in Britain is a reassuring fact. Much better to let them fail spectacularly in public than have them making all sorts of claims about how many supporters they have.

Much better that the boot faced men appear on telly and are exposed for their stupidity.

[yeezus.]

In your opinion they are racists so you don't vote for them. What about those who do agree with their policies...they can vote for them and have their opinions, right or wrong, channeled and expressed. Even with this type of election you should still have the option to express yourself.

I like seeing extreme parties on my ballot paper because it makes me feel democracy is really at work and everyone has a real choice. I had the four main parties on my ballot paper. Not one from the left or right and not even one independent. I didn't really want to give any of these boring, middle of the road, wishy-washy suits my vote.

I felt like writing "none of the above please".

Well of course it's my opinion - what a ridiculous thing to say.

People within the NF, who raised money for their campaign by selling golliwogs are mostly morons - these guys are against democracy. Phillips, the NF man for Seaton vowed to start "the re-patriation of all non-whites from Britain" hardly democratic!

[Pete]

Well of course it's my opinion - what a ridiculous thing to say.

People within the NF, who raised money for their campaign by selling golliwogs are mostly morons - these guys are against democracy. Phillips, the NF man for Seaton vowed to start "the re-patriation of all non-whites from Britain" hardly democratic!



You don't like them therefore you don't vote for them...but what about the people that share the same beliefs as the national front?

Surely it's undemocratic to not allow people the choice to vote for an extreme party or censor a certain parties message.

As FR said certain groups will be given enough rope to hang themselves....but more importantly democracy means a chance to express yourself, a genuine choice and a fair representation of public opinion.

To exclude the national front would be denying people a specific choice.

[Eyrie]

The problem is where do we draw the line?

Hopefully we're all in agreement that the British Nazi Party and their ilk hold unacceptable views, but what about other parties? Should the Tories be suppressed because the posh boys don't know the price of milk, or the SNP banned because they want to break up our country? Ultimately living in a democracy means that even the lunatic fringe have the right to be heard, just as we have the right to condemn the racists.

[lyonhibs]

Well of course it's my opinion - what a ridiculous thing to say.

People within the NF, who raised money for their campaign by selling golliwogs are mostly morons - these guys are against democracy. Phillips, the NF man for Seaton vowed to start "the re-patriation of all non-whites from Britain" hardly democratic!

Dear dear, you woefully misunderstood what democracy means in that case.

I couldn't be more against what these BNP/NF muppets think they stand for, but I defend their right to make total tits of themselves on a national stage. I'd be more "disgusted" if they fielded a candidate in any given consitituency and his/her name DIDN'T appear on the ballot paper.

[Pretty Boy]

In your opinion they are racists so you don't vote for them. What about those who do agree with their policies...they can vote for them and have their opinions, right or wrong, channeled and expressed. Even with this type of election you should still have the option to express yourself.

I like seeing extreme parties on my ballot paper because it makes me feel democracy is really at work and everyone has a real choice. I had the four main parties on my ballot paper. Not one from the left or right and not even one independent. I didn't really want to give any of these boring, middle of the road, wishy-washy suits my vote.

I felt like writing "none of the above please".

I like seeing the BNP et al on my ballot paper as it exposes their claims of a 'silent majority' for what it is.

[yeezus.]

Dear dear, you woefully misunderstood what democracy means in that case.

I couldn't be more against what these BNP/NF muppets think they stand for, but I defend their right to make total tits of themselves on a national stage. I'd be more "disgusted" if they fielded a candidate in any given consitituency and his/her name DIDN'T appear on the ballot paper.

I don't want to see any fascist party appear on the ballot paper thanks.

Thankfully, they don't get anywhere in Scotland, but I've seen how they pray on racial tensions in the north of England especially.

[hibsbollah]

I don't want to see any fascist party appear on the ballot paper thanks.

Thankfully, they don't get anywhere in Scotland, but I've seen how they pray on racial tensions in the north of England especially.

The problem with that is; who gets to define what is fascist and what isnt? One definition of fascism is the denial of voting rights from a group. You might find yourself being described as a fascist with those views. Disagreeing with immigration and other BNP policies is not necessarily fascist in ifself.

[Betty Boop]

This'll go right to the wire. The second, deciding vote is in a fortnight - a straight fight between Sarko & Hollande. If you add all the left wing votes (7 candidates) and all the right wing votes (2 candidates) it's pretty neck and neck. The liberal vote (about 9%) is crucial and I'd imagine they'll swing more to Hollande.

Two major things frighten me.

Le Penn (National Front) looks to have got about 17-18% of the vote :wtf:
A socialist government wouldn't necessarily worry me, but Hollande is a clown of the highest order.

Amazing how engaged the French appear to be with the political process, apparently there was an 80% turnout in the first round of voting.Today's turnout forecast to be even higher. Compared to the apathy shown in the UK, an admirable showing. :top marks

[Pretty Boy]

I don't want to see any fascist party appear on the ballot paper thanks.

Thankfully, they don't get anywhere in Scotland, but I've seen how they pray on racial tensions in the north of England especially.

As I said above fascists appearing on the ballot paper is a good thing in that it shows up their claims of 'everybody thinks it, we're just brave enough to say it' for what they are.

The rejection of the far right, especially in such tough economic times, should be seen as something positive.

[hibsbollah]

Amazing how engaged the French appear to be with the political process, apparently there was an 80% turnout in the first round of voting.Today's turnout forecast to be even higher. Compared to the apathy shown in the UK, an admirable showing. :top marks

They're all excited at the prospect of having the first ever head of state to be named after another European country (thanks to John Snow on twitter for that factoid) :aok:

[Betty Boop]

They're all excited at the prospect of having the first ever head of state to be named after another European country (thanks to John Snow on twitter for that factoid) :aok:

:greengrin

Huge crowds out on the streets, waiting on the results. Looks to be a party atmosphere !

[Betty Boop]

Looks like Sarko's tea is oot. Early indications are that Hollande is the new President.

[yeezus.]

The problem with that is; who gets to define what is fascist and what isnt? One definition of fascism is the denial of voting rights from a group. You might find yourself being described as a fascist with those views. Disagreeing with immigration and other BNP policies is not necessarily fascist in ifself.

I get your point, but I'm not saying that disagreeing with immigration is fascist, but when NF candidates say their main priority is to send all non-whites "back home" that is fascism.

And the BNP and NF don't just hate all immigrants, they hate anyone whose skin colour isn't the same as theirs. Say the EDL become a political party and stand tomorrow - I wouldn't oppose that because they don't discriminate on the basis of race.

[Peevemor]

Looks like Sarko's tea is oot. Early indications are that Hollande is the new President.

:agree: Hollande 52% - 48% Sarkozy

80.5% turnout.

[Peevemor]

There's a celebration concert thing happening just now at the Place de la Bastille in Paris with an estimated 110k people in attendance.

Yannick Noah, former tennis player turned singer has just been interviewed after coming off stage. Normally he's very articulate and good to listen to, but at this minute in time, I can assure you that he's spliffed oot his tits - he's just spent 2-3 minutes slavering pish (very slowly) :smokin.

Top man! :aok: