Europe situation

[dirtydirk]

I'm abit out of touch with the European situation with rangers not being eligible to play etc. So basically is it a situation that if we win tomorrow and Celtic win on Sunday we qualify?? If we win and hearts win are we guaranteed Europe if hearts finish 4th?

[Col2]

I'm abit out of touch with the European situation with rangers not being eligible to play etc. So basically is it a situation that if we win tomorrow and Celtic win on Sunday we qualify?? If we win and hearts win are we guaranteed Europe if hearts finish 4th?

Yes if we win and Celtic win

No if hearts beat us in the final

[greenginger]

Yes if we win and Celtic win

No if hearts beat us in the final


Unless Hearts get 3rd place and are in the Champions League.

[Keith_M]

The clearest way to describe the situation is this.


When we win the Cup in May, we qualify for Europe



There, simple isn't it :wink:

[Gmack7]

Unless Hearts get 3rd place and are in the Champions League.

its a bit early to be hammered

[California-Hibs]

Yes if we win and Celtic win

No if hearts beat us in the final

Is this truly the case for sure? So as long as its a Hibs v Celtic final, even if we lose and are runners up we are still in Europe due to making the final? Ive been trying to get a clear answer on this for a few days now but everyone seems unsure!

[Keith_M]

Yes if we win and Celtic win

No if hearts beat us in the final



Is this truly the case for sure? So as long as its a Hibs v Celtic final, even if we lose and are runners up we are still in Europe due to making the final? Ive been trying to get a clear answer on this for a few days now but everyone seems unsure!


He meant if both Hibs and Celtc win their games this weekend, therefore it's a Hibs v Celtc final, Hibs definitely qualify for Europe.

[StevieC]

If its a Hibs v Celtic final then we qualify for Europe.

The reason for this is one Europa Cup place is allocated to the Cup Final.
If the winning team has already qualified for the Champions League (a seperate competition) then they would decline their Europa Cup place and it would pass on to the competitions runners-up.

[Bristolhibby]

If its a Hibs v Celtic final then we qualify for Europe.

The reason for this is one Europa Cup place is allocated to the Cup Final.
If the winning team has already qualified for the Champions League (a seperate competition) then they would decline their Europa Cup place and it would pass on to the competitions runners-up.

This. 100% in Europe if we are in the final & Celtic beat the ****s on Sunday.

J

[California-Hibs]

Superb news! Would be pretty dam funny if by the end of the season we've stayed in the league and gained a European place and Hearts seasons achievement is....a 6th place finish!

[joe breezy]

Superb news! Would be pretty dam funny if by the end of the season we've stayed in the league and gained a European place and Hearts seasons achievement is....a 6th place finish!

:agree:

[RoxburghHibs]

If Hibs and Celtic win this weekend and Celtic beat Hibs in the final. Will Hibs qualify for the Europa League?

[lord bunberry]

Yes as Celtic have already qualified for the champions league

[wearethehibs]

No. We would have to win the cup. If Celtic won the euro spot goes to the next highest in the league. Which it rightfully should

[jgl07]

No. We would have to win the cup. If Celtic won the euro spot goes to the next highest in the league. Which it rightfully should

Wrong!

If Celtic win the Cup the runners up will qualify for the Europa League.

"When the domestic cup winners (considered as the "highest-placed" qualifiers within the national association) also qualify for the Champions League, their Europa League place is vacated, and the remaining Europa League qualifiers are moved up one place, with the final place (with the earliest starting round) taken by the domestic cup runners-up, provided they do not already qualify for the Champions League or the Europa League. Otherwise, this place is taken by the highest-placed league finishers that have not yet qualified for the Europa League".

[Keith_M]

No. We would have to win the cup. If Celtic won the euro spot goes to the next highest in the league. Which it rightfully should


...is the wrong answer.


Because Celtc are in the Champion League next season and not the Europa League, we (or Aberdeen) would qualify for the Europa League.

[allezsauzee]

I thought this ruling was changed after the likes of Gretna and QOS qualified for Europe?

[jgl07]

I thought this ruling was changed after the likes of Gretna and QOS qualified for Europe?

For the fifteenth time.

NO THE RULE WAS NOT CHANGED!

[cabbageandribs1875]

I thought this ruling was changed after the likes of Gretna and QOS qualified for Europe?


iirc the SFA wanted to change it, but UEFA said naw :dunno: or sommit like that :greengrin

[wearethehibs]

Oh well just another thing the SFA have wrong. The cup runners up have no right to qulifiy for europe.

Didn't Motherwell who finished 5th the same season we finished 4th get into europe due to the cup winners already being qulified for europe?

Edit: ignore that i didn't read 1 of the replys properly. Obviosly that season both finalists has qulified for europe

[cabbageandribs1875]

i fully agree, i don't think the SC runners-up should get into europe, it should be based on a season long effort and not just 5 games, no doubt there will be a decent enough argument against that though(other than this seasons runners-up :greengrin) :dunno:

[jgl07]

Is this truly the case for sure? So as long as its a Hibs v Celtic final, even if we lose and are runners up we are still in Europe due to making the final? Ive been trying to get a clear answer on this for a few days now but everyone seems unsure!

It is not unsure at all.

If Hibs win the final they are in the Europa League qualifier, if they lose the final they are not unless the winners are in the Champions' League. Celtic are already in the CL.

If Hearts improbably manage to pull seven points back on Motherwell and get into third place and beat Hibs in the final there is some doubt in this scenario. I suspect that Hearts will not get a European licence for next year due to the non-appearance of audited accounts. Hence the second CL spot will go to the fourth placed team (Motherwell or St Johnstone?).

So Hibs must either win the Cup or lose to Celtic in the Final.

[InchHibby]

For the fifteenth time.

NO THE RULE WAS NOT CHANGED!
Are you sure:greengrin

[Bristolhibby]

i fully agree, i don't think the SC runners-up should get into europe, it should be based on a season long effort and not just 5 games, no doubt there will be a decent enough argument against that though(other than this seasons runners-up :greengrin) :dunno:

Problem is UEFA insist that one Europa league spot must be allocated through a Cup competition.

Nothing the SFA can do about it.

Agree, it would be galling if you finished 4th and got nothing but the team who finish second bottom get Europe.

J

[Alex Trager]

Problem is UEFA insist that one Europa league spot must be allocated through a Cup competition.

Nothing the SFA can do about it.

Agree, it would be galling if you finished 4th and got nothing but the team who finish second bottom get Europe.

J
Especially if it were hearts who finish fourth

[cabbageandribs1875]

Problem is UEFA insist that one Europa league spot must be allocated through a Cup competition.

Nothing the SFA can do about it.

Agree, it would be galling if you finished 4th and got nothing but the team who finish second bottom get Europe.

J


exactly, imagine us having a pretty good long season and finishing 4th, caley v pars in the SC final, we get nowt :(

[PatHead]

Problem is UEFA insist that one Europa league spot must be allocated through a Cup competition.

Nothing the SFA can do about it.

Agree, it would be galling if you finished 4th and got nothing but the team who finish second bottom get Europe.

J

Hope Hearts finish 4th and we qualify for Europe.

On a more serious note, when we win the Cup do we go above any of the league entrants as far as seedings go?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Especially if it were hearts who finish fourth


that scenario is acceptable though :greengrin

[Hibee87]

Problem is UEFA insist that one Europa league spot must be allocated through a Cup competition.

Nothing the SFA can do about it.

Agree, it would be galling if you finished 4th and got nothing but the team who finish second bottom get Europe.

J

It would surely make more sense to have the winner of the league cup and the winner of the scottish get the europe spots

[hulk]

Scotland had 5 teams in Europe this year - so if we get in via the cup (as winners hopefully) then that's 4 places in the league. Take rangers out the equation so that's the top 5 (exl rangers) that qualify

[Green Man]

Hope Hearts finish 4th and we qualify for Europe.

On a more serious note, when we win the Cup do we go above any of the league entrants as far as seedings go?

Cup winners go into the 4th qualifying round. Third and fourth place in the league go into the 3rd and 2nd qualifying rounds respectively.

If the cup runners-up qualify through losing to Celtic, they go into the 2nd qualifying round and the qualifiers from the league each go in a round later.

[hulk]

Scotland had 5 teams in Europe this year - so if we get in via the cup (as winners hopefully) then that's 4 places in the league. Take rangers out the equation so that's the top 5 (exl rangers) that qualify

Has not had !!

[Monts]

It is not unsure at all.

If Hibs win the final they are in the Europa League qualifier, if they lose the final they are not unless the winners are in the Champions' League. Celtic are already in the CL.

If Hearts improbably manage to pull seven points back on Motherwell and get into third place and beat Hibs in the final there is some doubt in this scenario. I suspect that Hearts will not get a European licence for next year due to the non-appearance of audited accounts. Hence the second CL spot will go to the fourth placed team (Motherwell or St Johnstone?).

So Hibs must either win the Cup or lose to Celtic in the Final.

Surely in this scenario we would still get Europe since hearts couldnt take the Europa League place either? :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Scotland had 5 teams in Europe this year - so if we get in via the cup (as winners hopefully) then that's 4 places in the league. Take rangers out the equation so that's the top 5 (exl rangers) that qualify

Did Hearts get their accounts, with a clean audit report, in on time?

[jgl07]

Scotland had 5 teams in Europe this year - so if we get in via the cup (as winners hopefully) then that's 4 places in the league. Take rangers out the equation so that's the top 5 (exl rangers) that qualify

Scotland had 4 places in Europe this season: Rangers (CL), Celtic, Hearts, Dundee United (EL).

Next season this goes up to 5 places 2 (CL) + 3 (EL).

the season after that it will be back to 4 places 1 (CL) + 3 (EL)

[ggth]

does the finalists get into europe?

[Gus Fring]

So am I right in staying that if the league finishes as is and Celtic win tomorrow that'll mean

Celtic and Motherwell in the Champions League (because Rangers aren't eligible)

and St Johnstone, Dundee United and Hibs are in the Europa League?

With the potential complication being that even if Hearts finish higher they might not even be eligible?

[James70]

Will we have a team ready to play in Europe?

With so many of our players being loan signings and others coming to the end of their contracts along with the fact it would be an early start in Europe. Also it has proved difficult in the past doing transfer business during the close season.

If we do make Europe then management will have to get the finger out and make some of these loan signings permanent asap!

In Rod and Pat we trust!

[Ashtead Hibs]

The BBC seem to think that if Celtic win the cup the Europa League spot goes back into the league....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17288116

[Baldy Foghorn]

The BBC seem to think that if Celtic win the cup the Europa League spot goes back into the league....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17288116

Jeez, I wish we could ascertain some clarity on this matter....You need to be a lawyer to interpret it all:greengrin

[NYHibby]

Jeez, I wish we could ascertain some clarity on this matter....You need to be a lawyer to interpret it all:greengrin

You don't need a lawyer. This is so simple that a five year old could figure it out. People who don't know what they are talking about need to stop posting/writing nonsense.

The only thing that is unclear, as far as we are concerned, is what happens if we lose to Hearts in the final and they become ineligible for Europe.

http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=10789


Scotland's position in the UEFA rankings at the end of 2010/11 was 15th, meaning that five clubs will qualify for European competitions next season:

~ The 2011/12 champions and runners-up enter the Champions League in the third qualifying round.

~ This season's Scottish Cup winners enter the Europa League in qualifying round four (play-offs).

~ The third-placed club in the SPL go into the Europa League third qualifying round.

~ The fourth-placed club in the SPL go into the Europa League second qualifying round.

~ If the Scottish Cup winners have qualified for the Champions League, then the SPL third-placed club enters at QR4, the fourth-placed club enters in QR3 and the cup runners-up enter in QR2.

[TariqE]

My understanding is that should hertz get beat from the soapies- we're in europe.... is this right?

[Eyrie]

We get a Europa League spot if that happens.

Only question is which round we enter at - lose the final and we face three ties before the group stages, win it and there's only one.

[Leithenhibby]

I shall take either! :wink:

[TariqE]

Nice one. Thanks

[SJNB Hibby]

Not sure if this is true-why were Motherwell not in Europe this past season after losing to to Smelltic in last years final?
:confused::confused:

[Darth Hibbie]

Not sure if this is true-why were Motherwell not in Europe this past season after losing to to Smelltic in last years final?
:confused::confused:


Celtic did not qualify for the champions league it was only the europa cup.

[NYHibby]

Seriously? It is not that difficult people. Can the mods start merging these threads?

Celtic did not qualify for the Champions League last year.

Here is my slightly rude post from earlier today:
http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?233139-Europe-situation&p=3179440&viewfull=1#post3179440



You don't need a lawyer. This is so simple that a five year old could figure it out. People who don't know what they are talking about need to stop posting/writing nonsense.

The only thing that is unclear, as far as we are concerned, is what happens if we lose to Hearts in the final and they become ineligible for Europe.

http://www.scotprem.com/content/defa...2&newsid=10789 (http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=10789)



Scotland's position in the UEFA rankings at the end of 2010/11 was 15th, meaning that five clubs will qualify for European competitions next season:

~ The 2011/12 champions and runners-up enter the Champions League in the third qualifying round.

~ This season's Scottish Cup winners enter the Europa League in qualifying round four (play-offs).

~ The third-placed club in the SPL go into the Europa League third qualifying round.

~ The fourth-placed club in the SPL go into the Europa League second qualifying round.

~ If the Scottish Cup winners have qualified for the Champions League, then the SPL third-placed club enters at QR4, the fourth-placed club enters in QR3 and the cup runners-up enter in QR2.

[SJNB Hibby]

Celtic did not qualify for the champions league it was only the europa cup.

Excellent news, thanks:agree:

[cabbageandribs1875]

Not sure if this is true-why were Motherwell not in Europe this past season after losing to to Smelltic in last years final?
:confused::confused:


i think it's because we only had 4 teams in this season's Euro games,

[greenlex]

Celtic did not qualify for the champions league it was only the europa cup.


Excellent news, thanks:agree:
Thats not news!!! That was nearly a year ago FFS!!! :confused:

[AlbertK86]

Even 1 trip abroad will do ..... no as if we're gonna win the trophy anyway !!!!!


GGTTH

[jgl07]

Not sure if this is true-why were Motherwell not in Europe this past season after losing to to Smelltic in last years final?
:confused::confused:

Because the Celtic were not in the Champions' League.

[CropleyWasGod]

Even 1 trip abroad will do ..... no as if we're gonna win the trophy anyway !!!!!


GGTTH

See you doom and gloomers? Ram it!


:greengrin

[heretoday]

Europe eh?

Can't help thinking that's pretty rich considering the quality of entertainment on offer for most of this season!

[Hibercelona]

Considering Europe is more or less our aim every season, I think this would be a fantastic end to a forgettable season.

It won't matter who wins tomorrow, we'll still qualify for Europe, after we lift the cup. :wink:

:hibees

[jgl07]

You don't need a lawyer. This is so simple that a five year old could figure it out.


Quick, get me a five year-old. I can't make head nor tail of it! (with apologoes to Groucho Marx).

Really the rules are spelled out very clearly.

If Hibs win the Cup they will be in the Europa Cup at the Playoff Round (Fourth Qualifying Round).

If Celtc win the final against Hibs, Hibs will be in the Europa Cup in the Second Qualifying Round.

If Hibs lose the final Hearts, they will not get into the Europa unless Hearts fail to get a 2012-13 European Licence.

[Hongkong Phooey]

Presume so?

As much as I want to beat Hertz to end the hoodoo, the prize of being guaranteed a European trip is surely too big to turn down.

Celtc in the final for me for that sole reason.

[21.05.2016]

Yes :agree:

And European football would be great but it just comes absolutely no where near the pleasure of winning the cup. We would proberly be knocked out in the first round by some unheard of team and it would be done and forgotten, however, winning the cup would be the greatest moment in history, and for that reason I am wanting the hearts in the final as I think we have more chance of beating them than Celtic. At the moment I don't really care about Europa League, I just want that cup :greengrin!

GGTTH :flag:

[TornadoHibby]

Yes :agree:

And European football would be great but it just comes absolutely no where near the pleasure of winning the cup. We would proberly be knocked out in the first round by some unheard of team and it would be done and forgotten, however, winning the cup would be the greatest moment in history, and for that reason I am wanting the hearts in the final as I think we have more chance of beating them than Celtic. At the moment I don't really care about Europa League, I just want that cup :greengrin!

GGTTH :flag:

:top marks

100% with you here! The opportunity of beating those to whom our Scottish Cup 'hoodoo' means more to than it does to us is too great a chance to miss! :agree:


Hearts in the final for me even if they could beat us rather than a home and away tie in Europe! :agree:

[Hongkong Phooey]

:top marks

100% with you here! The opportunity of beating those to whom our Scottish Cup 'hoodoo' means more to than it does to us is too great a chance to miss! :agree:


Hearts in the final for me even if they could beat us rather than a home and away tie in Europe! :agree:


Good spot sir. 'Hoodoo' rather than 'voodoo' definately the thing to exorcise. Haha.

[7 Hills]

On the other hand, if we get Hearts in the Final and beat them, we still get into Europe and we win one thousand years' worth of bragging rights. Bring on the Jambos!

[Jim44]

Somebody said that if we get the Jambos in the final and they beat us, we will qualify for Europe as they won't have a UEFA licence. This is wrong. In that instance the Europa Cup place would revert to league positions only.

[Hibrandenburg]

So now we have to beat the ****s to qualify for europe or if we lose there might be a back door left open should the ****s not get a licence to play.

[Jim44]

So now we have to beat the ****s to qualify for europe or if we lose there might be a back door left open should the ****s not get a licence to play.

Did you not read my post above? If they beat us and don't have a licence, we will NOT get the place by default.

[Hibrandenburg]

Did you not read my post above? If they beat us and don't have a licence, we will NOT get the place by default.

Was typing my post when you posted so to answer your question....no.

[jabis]

Did you not read my post above? If they beat us and don't have a licence, we will NOT get the place by default.


Was typing my post when you posted so to answer your question....no.

will you two babies stop fighting :greengrin

[PatHead]

Superb news! Would be pretty dam funny if by the end of the season we've stayed in the league and won the Cup, a European place and Hearts seasons achievement is....a 6th place finish!


Fixed it for you

[Jim44]

Was typing my post when you posted so to answer your question....no.

Sorry Hiberlin, I didn't mean to sound so abrupt.

[Hibrandenburg]

will you two babies stop fighting :greengrin

Ok mum!

[jabis]

Sorry Hiberlin, I didn't mean to sound so abrupt.


Ok mum!

thats better......farley's rusks all round to celebrate :thumbsup:

[Leith Green]

Who gives a monkeys about europe, this is a 50/50 whoever wins has won the biggest single game of either clubs history. Losing that and Europe? Who cares...

[bob12345]

This summarises the situation and all permutations quite well: http://splstats.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/how-to-qualify-for-europe-an-update/

[scoopyboy]

Did you not read my post above? If they beat us and don't have a licence, we will NOT get the place by default.

I thought a place had to go to the cup competition.

That's why the SFA couldn't remove runners up.

[Famous5forever]

Who gives a monkeys about europe, this is a 50/50 whoever wins has won the biggest single game of either clubs history. Losing that and Europe? Who cares...

I Agree and the occasion is just to big for me i could not face losing to them in a final, i shall watch on tv with fingers crossed if we lose i plan a holiday in south of England in a caravan with no internet or tv coverage for a week till the dust settles.
if we win i plan to party:pfgwa

[Billy Whizz]

I thought a place had to go to the cup competition.

That's why the SFA couldn't remove runners up.

I don't think we're ready for Europe anyway next season. Win the Scottish and use this as a springboard to kick on in the League next season

[Keith_M]

This means Hibs have even MORE incentive to win the Cup (as if that was required).


Win the Cup and qualify for Europe.

Don't win = no Scottish Cup and no single game in Europe in July, being beaten by some third rate Eastern European team nobody could previously find on the map.


Oops, just spoiled my own argument there. :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

I thought a place had to go to the cup competition.

That's why the SFA couldn't remove runners up.


i'm fairly positive of that as well

[Alfred E Newman]

I don`t and never have thought it right that the losers in the cup Final should qualify for the Europa League . There was always a case when it provided entry into the Cup Winners cup , but the Europa league should be on league placings if the cup winners have already qualified for the Champions League.

[Keith_M]

I don`t and never have thought it right that the losers in the cup Final should qualify for the Europa League . There was always a case when it provided entry into the Cup Winners cup , but the Europa league should be on league placings if the cup winners have already qualified for the Champions League.


So we're all in agreement, Hearts shouldn't get to play in Europe just because they lost in this years Cup Final



:thumbsup:

[cabbageandribs1875]

I don`t and never have thought it right that the losers in the cup Final should qualify for the Europa League . There was always a case when it provided entry into the Cup Winners cup , but the Europa league should be on league placings if the cup winners have already qualified for the Champions League.


i fully agree with your first part, but it devalues the SC if no one at all benefits from winning/being in final surely ?

[Eyrie]

Will Hearts even meet the UEFA licensing requirements for Europe?

[Jim44]

This summarises the situation and all permutations quite well: http://splstats.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/how-to-qualify-for-europe-an-update/

So an interesting but hitherto unknown fact has been revealed by this summary ........ Hearts have successfully submitted audited accounts and are officially eligible for European competition. This really surprises me.

[Greendub]

Europe is just a bonus.