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grunt
11-04-2012, 02:47 PM
http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=11256


On 30 April 2012 the SPL Clubs will consider a range of proposals to amend the Articles and Rules of the SPL. A brief description of the effect of adopting the Resolutions is provided below.

Resolution 1 proposes an increase in the sporting sanction (points deduction) on any Club which suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event from 10 points to the greater of 15 points and 1/3 of the Club’s SPL points in the preceding season.

Resolution 2A proposes further sporting sanctions in the event that any Club undergoes an Insolvency Transfer Event (i.e. transfers its share in the SPL to a new company where this occurs because of the insolvency of the transferor) of 10 points in each of two consecutive seasons from the Insolvency Transfer Event.

Resolution 2B proposes revisions to the fee payment arrangements i.e. SPL fees to any Club which has undergone an Insolvency Transfer Event will be reduced by 75% in each of three consecutive seasons from the Insolvency Transfer Event.

Resolution 3 proposes extending sporting sanctions where an Insolvency Event is suffered by a Group Undertaking of a Member Club of the SPL (Group Undertaking is defined in Section 1161(5) of the Companies Act 2006).

Resolution 4 proposes updates and extensions to the definition of Insolvency Event in the SPL Rules.

Resolution 5 proposes updates and extensions to the definition of Insolvency Event in the SPL Articles and clarifies the process in the event that a Member which is the subject of an Insolvency Event is required to transfer its share in the Company.

Resolution 6 proposes a specific requirement in the SPL Rules that Clubs must pay their Players in terms of their Contracts of Service on due dates and places a duty on any Club to report any failure to pay its Players in a timely manner to the SPL. Failure to pay Players and / or to notify such failure to the SPL would be a breach of SPL Rules.

Resolution 7 proposes a requirement in the SPL Rules that Clubs report to the SPL any failure to make payments to HMRC in respect of PAYE and NIC (a Default Event). Any Club suffering such a Default Event will be subject to a Player Registration Embargo. Any failure to report a Default Event shall be a breach of the SPL Rules.

Resolutions 2B and 5 require the support of a minimum of 11 Clubs to be adopted; all other Resolutions require the support of a minimum of 8 Clubs to be adopted.

If adopted the amendments to the Articles and Rules will have effect from and including 14 May 2012 (the day after the last day of Season 2011/2012).

No further comment will be made in respect of these proposals until after the General Meeting on 30 April at which they will be considered by the Clubs.

Classic barn door closing activity.

CallumLaidlaw
11-04-2012, 03:00 PM
So, if rangers transfer their SPL status to a newco, they'll get 10pt deductions for the next 2 season, and a 25% reduction in SPL fees for 3 years. THAT will be their total punishment???? Unbelievable!!

jst1875
11-04-2012, 03:07 PM
So, if rangers transfer their SPL status to a newco, they'll get 10pt deductions for the next 2 season, and a 25% reduction in SPL fees for 3 years. THAT will be their total punishment???? Unbelievable!!

just another reason that could see me joining the ranks of the " finished with scottish football brigade "

Caversham Green
11-04-2012, 03:09 PM
So, if rangers transfer their SPL status to a newco, they'll get 10pt deductions for the next 2 season, and a 25% reduction in SPL fees for 3 years. THAT will be their total punishment???? Unbelievable!!

No, it's a 75% reduction - that means they'll only get 25%of the fees - I wonder what will happen to the rest.

I also wonder who drafted and proposed these resolutions. They look like an anticipation and green light for liquidation - interesting to see how Duff & Phelps and the various bidders react.

JeMeSouviens
11-04-2012, 03:10 PM
Even the Italians made the new Fiorentina start at the bottom. Scottish football becomes officially the most corrupt in Europe. :rolleyes:

I want Hibs opposing this stitch up now! :agree:

Mikey
11-04-2012, 03:15 PM
No, it's a 75% reduction - that means they'll only get 25%of the fees - I wonder what will happen to the rest.

I also wonder who drafted and proposed these resolutions. They look like an anticipation and green light for liquidation - interesting to see how Duff & Phelps and the various bidders react.

It sure looks like it's been drafted just for one purpose, and that's to save New Rangers from going out of the SPL.

And what about laying down some rules when players aren't paid. Not being allowed to play them while they remain unpaid would be a good start. Being in "breach of SPL rules" is a load of pish.

ancienthibby
11-04-2012, 03:15 PM
So, if rangers transfer their SPL status to a newco, they'll get 10pt deductions for the next 2 season, and a 25% reduction in SPL fees for 3 years. THAT will be their total punishment???? Unbelievable!!

There's still the matter of double contracts to come, still possible punishment from Uefa, possible legal action from the Austrian club they got Jelicka from, and I still think certain directors may well get caught out by 'wrongful trading'

I would have added that there's still a polis investigation going on, but that would only elicit howls of laughter!:greengrin

Hibercelona
11-04-2012, 03:23 PM
http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=11256



Classic barn door closing activity.

If thats going to be the new rules in the Scottish game, Hibs should go on mass spending spree after the end of the season.

Hibs Class
11-04-2012, 03:25 PM
It sure looks like it's been drafted just for one purpose, and that's to save New Rangers from going out of the SPL.

And what about laying down some rules when players aren't paid. Not being allowed to play then while they remain unpaid would be a good start. Being in "breach of SPL rules" is a load of pish.


If maintaining their SPL existence is seen as a pre-requisite then I reckon I'd be done with Scottish football, and that seems to be a fairly common view.

Finbar
11-04-2012, 03:28 PM
Do SPL clubs own a share of the SPL that can be transferred to another company?
Is that actually the way things are set up?

Godsahibby
11-04-2012, 03:29 PM
Even the Italians made the new Fiorentina start at the bottom. Scottish football becomes officially the most corrupt in Europe. :rolleyes:

I want Hibs opposing this stitch up now! :agree:

I agree that any new co should have to start at the bottom but the issue we have, is that isn't the SPL seperate to the SFL. The worst sanction the SPL could make on a club would be to kick them out of the league, it would then be up to the other members to vote on whther or not they are allowed back in.

I believe the example to look at is Livingston, when they went tits up they were in the 1st division so got relegated to the 3rd.

SteveHFC
11-04-2012, 03:31 PM
If the Rangers are getting away with administration. Then **** Scottish football.

jgl07
11-04-2012, 03:32 PM
I agree that any new co should have to start at the bottom but the issue we have, is that isn't the SPL seperate to the SFL. The worst sanction the SPL could make on a club would be to kick them out of the league, it would then be up to the other members to vote on whther or not they are allowed back in.

I believe the example to look at is Livingston, when they went tits up they were in the 1st division so got relegated to the 3rd.

Kick them out of the SPL. Clear and unambiguous.

That puts the problem on to the SFL and maybe the SFA.

blackpoolhibs
11-04-2012, 03:32 PM
Does this need an 11-1 vote in favour to carry this through?

grunt
11-04-2012, 03:36 PM
Does this need an 11-1 vote in favour to carry this through?Resolutions 2B and 5 require the support of a minimum of 11 Clubs to be adopted; all other Resolutions require the support of a minimum of 8 Clubs to be adopted.

TheEastTerrace
11-04-2012, 03:37 PM
My gut feeling is that the SPL will be hedging their bets that if Rangers go into insolvency and are allowed to re-enter as a 'newco' with sanctions, the initial fury will eventually recede to the point that all the fans will be back watching the SPL as if this had never happened.

Well, if you scour the internet, Facebook and Twitter for the initial reaction to these proposals, and if they are in any way reflective of the views of football supporters in this country....congratulations to the SPL, you will be signing the death note for Scottish football.

I will always love Hibs, but I will never go back to an SPL game if this is allowed to happen.

bingo70
11-04-2012, 03:47 PM
How much would it cost clubs if fans boycotted games against rangers?

These rules wouldn't stop me going to hibs games but I'd happily boycott games against those horrible *****.

TheEastTerrace
11-04-2012, 03:52 PM
How much would it cost clubs if fans boycotted games against rangers?

These rules wouldn't stop me going to hibs games but I'd happily boycott games against those horrible *****.

The irony is that Rangers fans are fuming about these proposals too. Rangers Supporters Trust talking about an away boycott on all grounds.

The SPL have completely under-estimated this.

jgl07
11-04-2012, 03:53 PM
How much would it cost clubs if fans boycotted games against rangers?

These rules wouldn't stop me going to hibs games but I'd happily boycott games against those horrible *****.

What a feeble protest!

Hibercelona
11-04-2012, 03:54 PM
How much would it cost clubs if fans boycotted games against rangers?

These rules wouldn't stop me going to hibs games but I'd happily boycott games against those horrible *****.

It would be pointless. It wouldn't do them any real damage.

The only thing that will force any real difference is if all fans from all other clubs start boycotting all games, all together in one massive strike.

But it will never happen.

As gutless as the SFA are, we're just as gutless and they know it.

carnoustiehibee
11-04-2012, 03:58 PM
Surely the other clubs won't stand for this? Do they realise theyll kill the Scottish game if a new rangers are allowed to stay in the spl.

Will the players of other clubs also accept this? They might want out of a corrupt league. Maybe Romanov isn't so mad after all.

PaulSmith
11-04-2012, 04:00 PM
Surely the other clubs won't stand for this? Do they realise theyll kill the Scottish game if a new rangers are allowed to stay in the spl.

Will the players of other clubs also accept this? They might want out of a corrupt league. Maybe Romanov isn't so mad after all.

The 'other' clubs are the SPL, there is no one else making these decisions bar the chairmen of every SPL club

bingo70
11-04-2012, 04:03 PM
What a feeble protest!

Jeezo, only asked!

If a bigger protest could be organised then great but no home fans attending any game rangers played in would surely have a bigger impact than some fans being 'finished with Scottish football"

Mikey
11-04-2012, 04:06 PM
Jeezo, only asked!

If a bigger protest could be organised then great but no home fans attending any game rangers played in would surely have a bigger impact than some fans being 'finished with Scottish football"

Finding a protest that doesn't affect Hibs would certainly be more appropriate.

jgl07
11-04-2012, 04:06 PM
It would be pointless. It wouldn't do them any real damage.

The only thing that will force any real difference is if all fans from all other clubs start boycotting all games, all together in one massive strike.

But it will never happen.

As gutless as the SFA are, we're just as gutless and they know it.

I think you underestimate the impact.

Apart from anything else if a Newco Rangers were back in free of debts the gap between the OF and the rest would become wider and wider. Other clubs (apart from Hearts) have been living within their means and this is showing on the field. Even Hearts' bubble will burst at some stage.

The lack of competition will see the slow decline of the SPL regardless of boycotts. The TV companies will lose interest in screening matches in largely empty stadiums, devoid of atmosphere.

If they allow Rangers to get away with it that will be the future. I will not be there to watch it.

Hibercelona
11-04-2012, 04:08 PM
Jeezo, only asked!

If a bigger protest could be organised then great but no home fans attending any game rangers played in would surely have a bigger impact than some fans being 'finished with Scottish football"

What impact would it have against a team that are invincible in this country based on the ruling system?

Fans not turning up for games against Rangers wouldn't do a thing to change the rules. All that would happen is these clubs would be forced to do what Killie done with Celtic and invite more of these bigots into the grounds. Would you want that?

Hibercelona
11-04-2012, 04:09 PM
I think you underestimate the impact.

Apart from anything else if a Newco Rangers were back in free of debts the gap between the OF and the rest would become wider and wider. Other clubs (apart from Hearts) have been living within their means and this is showing on the field. Even Hearts' bubble will burst at some stage.

The lack of competition will see the slow decline of the SPL regardless of boycotts. The TV companies will lose interest in screening matches in largely empty stadiums, devoid of atmosphere.

If they allow Rangers to get away with it that will be the future. I will not be there to watch it.

The stadiums wouldn't be largely empty. Clubs would just be forced to offer bigger allocations to the OF.

carnoustiehibee
11-04-2012, 04:13 PM
The 'other' clubs are the SPL, there is no one else making these decisions bar the chairmen of every SPL club

Good point, haha. Completly suicidal.

I wonder if there would be a mass walkout/leaving of players aswell to other leagues if this happened.

JeMeSouviens
11-04-2012, 04:17 PM
Finding a protest that doesn't affect Hibs would certainly be more appropriate.

There's no point waiting for it to happen and then protesting.

2 clubs could stop this now. We have 19 days to put pressure on Hibs and hope one other at least does the right thing.

bingo70
11-04-2012, 04:18 PM
What impact would it have against a team that are invincible in this country based on the ruling system?

Fans not turning up for games against Rangers wouldn't do a thing to change the rules. All that would happen is these clubs would be forced to do what Killie done with Celtic and invite more of these bigots into the grounds. Would you want that?

And some fans being finished with Scottish football wouldn't be much of a protest either, it'd just be a continuation of a trend that already exists, fans not going to say hibs against killie would do even less to highlight that we're not happy.

My post was just a suggestion as an alternative to being finished with Scottish football altogether as let's face it any boycott of hibs games would soon be forgotten about if we got a decent team on the park.

bingo70
11-04-2012, 04:20 PM
The stadiums wouldn't be largely empty. Clubs would just be forced to offer bigger allocations to the OF.

They couldn't do that as most teams have got st holders in the other stands, killie only did what they did after putting the vote to there fans

ancienthibby
11-04-2012, 04:21 PM
I think you underestimate the impact.

Apart from anything else if a Newco Rangers were back in free of debts the gap between the OF and the rest would become wider and wider. Other clubs (apart from Hearts) have been living within their means and this is showing on the field. Even Hearts' bubble will burst at some stage.

The lack of competition will see the slow decline of the SPL regardless of boycotts. The TV companies will lose interest in screening matches in largely empty stadiums, devoid of atmosphere.

If they allow Rangers to get away with it that will be the future. I will not be there to watch it.

Maybe he did (and others too) but a key point is that RFCNewco will be wounded for years and years, because as we know, none of the potential new owners are rolling in cash.

That means that the days of RFC paying £20K a week to players is gone for maybe 10 years.

That means that RFC will not be able to pay even £3 million for a new player.

That then means that RFC will not be able to deal with another club in the transfer market given their failure to pay, what is it now?, 10 clubs on failed deals!

That means that Sally McCoist will have to wear Watty's old clothes, as he is already doing!:faf:

That means that the OF will not automatically grab the top two places in the league.

That means that a huge incentive is being created for Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Dundee United, and some other club!:agree:

jgl07
11-04-2012, 04:23 PM
They couldn't do that as most teams have got st holders in the other stands, killie only did what they did after putting the vote to there fans

In any event the OF fans have lost their desire to travel in large numbers. Unless it is a championship decider, with all away OF matches televised there would probably not be the demand to fill much beyond the South Stand at Easter Road.

keep the faith
11-04-2012, 04:24 PM
And thats why i will wait to see what happens with rangers before i buy a season for next year. No way im supporting a corrupt league if they liquidate and stay in the spl.

.Sean.
11-04-2012, 04:32 PM
Scottish Football really is ****ing corrupt. Maybe Romanov was right! I've bought my ST for next year already but if these proposals do go ahead and 'newco' RFC are re-admited, then I am finished with football, and you can quote me on that.

I honestly reckon though that the majority of fans feel the same as myself and change for the better may well happen sooner rather than later. I can't see things staying as they are forever more.

HibbyDave
11-04-2012, 04:43 PM
The 'other' clubs are the SPL, there is no one else making these decisions bar the chairmen of every SPL club

The only way is to tell RP what we as fans demand i.e. A clear unambiguous statement from Hibernian that as a club Hibernian are completely against allowing Rangers to remain in the SPL in the event that they go into Liquidation.

Don't hold your breath waiting for it though. Our board "don't do statements of intent" as that only leaves them open to ACCOUNTABILITY and we can't have that.

Onion
11-04-2012, 04:44 PM
IMHO the vast majority of fans will be furious if NewHuns go straight into the SPL (sanctions or not) and it will be the final straw for most. My protest would be with Hibs if they allowed this to happen, then with the SPL/SFA - simply because the SFA/SPL have no interest in doing the right thing for the game in Scotland. Scottish Football would be the biggest embarrassment in world football - corrupt to the core.

JeMeSouviens
11-04-2012, 04:47 PM
Maybe he did (and others too) but a key point is that RFCNewco will be wounded for years and years, because as we know, none of the potential new owners are rolling in cash.

That means that the days of RFC paying £20K a week to players is gone for maybe 10 years.

That means that RFC will not be able to pay even £3 million for a new player.

That then means that RFC will not be able to deal with another club in the transfer market given their failure to pay, what is it now?, 10 clubs on failed deals!

That means that Sally McCoist will have to wear Watty's old clothes, as he is already doing!:faf:

That means that the OF will not automatically grab the top two places in the league.

That means that a huge incentive is being created for Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Dundee United, and some other club!:agree:

This is, sadly, pish. A debt free Huns, freed from the Ticketus deal and living within their means will still have at least 3 or 4 times the turnover of all the clubs you mention. They might struggle to compete with Celtic but they will be able to carry on cherry picking from all the rest of us.

lucky
11-04-2012, 04:52 PM
Can under the present rules Rangers be kicked out of the SPL? In any case i doubt Hearts or Rangers will vote for these changes. Others will oppose them based on not wanting to upset Rangers. I very much doubt they will get through. The best sanction is points deduction on a massive scale but other clubs will be too afraid to do so in the event they go bankrupt next

Mikey
11-04-2012, 04:54 PM
There's a poll here folks............

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?233000-Do-You-Back-The-Financial-Fair-Play-Proposals

Geo_1875
11-04-2012, 04:56 PM
Finding a protest that doesn't affect Hibs would certainly be more appropriate.

There is no viable protest. If we refuse to attend matches involving RFC then we only hurt our own club. If we refuse to attend any matches we only hurt our own club. They will always have large home crowds and tv money from their away games, same as CFC. Hibs and the rest are ****ed and it didn't happen recently.

Ryan69
11-04-2012, 04:57 PM
who actually voted for this new rules the sfa are trying to bring into play to save Rangers?

Do all new proposals not need tobe approved 11-1....or is that only when it suits them?

MrSmith
11-04-2012, 05:14 PM
The SFA/SPL are terrified because if they punish Rangers to much ... the can is open! And, I for one, will lay odds that there is dirty linen in every cupboard of these corrupt ridden corridors in the SFA/SPL! I would also lay odds in regards to: match fixing, corruption, back handers, brown envelopes if you wish; And; criminal activity. Although I cant prove this - it will come out in the wash if Rangers are liquidated and left with nothing!

I for one will be finished with Scottish football if Rangers are allowed entry into the SPL. The game here is finished and corrupt beyond recognition.

grunt
11-04-2012, 05:37 PM
Sportsound!!:grr:

Paisley Hibby
11-04-2012, 05:42 PM
Maybe he did (and others too) but a key point is that RFCNewco will be wounded for years and years, because as we know, none of the potential new owners are rolling in cash.

That means that the days of RFC paying £20K a week to players is gone for maybe 10 years.

That means that RFC will not be able to pay even £3 million for a new player.

That then means that RFC will not be able to deal with another club in the transfer market given their failure to pay, what is it now?, 10 clubs on failed deals!

That means that Sally McCoist will have to wear Watty's old clothes, as he is already doing!:faf:

That means that the OF will not automatically grab the top two places in the league.

That means that a huge incentive is being created for Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Dundee United, and some other club!:agree:

As far as I can see, a Newco Rangers would be debt free and would be raking in lots of cash from the huge ranks of bigots that follow them - not to mention sponsorship, TV and advertising. So financially they would be able to blow everyone out of the water except Celtic. The only penalties would be a 75% deduction in cash from SPL (no big loss) and a 10 point deduction. Even in their current disastrous financial state they have already won 19 points more than the team in third (and had 10 points deducted). So as far as I can see, these penalties are only likely to help Celtic. The proposed penalties are no more than a wee slap on the wrist.

Hibercelona
11-04-2012, 05:46 PM
As far as I can see, a Newco Rangers would be debt free and would be raking in lots of cash from the huge ranks of bigots that follow them - not to mention sponsorship, TV and advertising. So financially they would be able to blow everyone out of the water except Celtic. The only penalties would be a 75% deduction in cash from SPL (no big loss) and a 10 point deduction. Even in their current disastrous financial state they have already won 19 points more than the team in third (and had 10 points deducted). So as far as I can see, these penalties are only likely to help Celtic. The proposed penalties are no more than a wee slap on the wrist.

Exactly. This proposal is the best thing that could happen for Rangers now.

We must ensure it doesn't happen.

ancienthibby
11-04-2012, 05:54 PM
]As far as I can see, a Newco Rangers would be debt free and would be raking in lots of cash from the huge ranks of bigots that follow them [/B]- not to mention sponsorship, TV and advertising. So financially they would be able to blow everyone out of the water except Celtic. The only penalties would be a 75% deduction in cash from SPL (no big loss) and a 10 point deduction. Even in their current disastrous financial state they have already won 19 points more than the team in third (and had 10 points deducted). So as far as I can see, these penalties are only likely to help Celtic. The proposed penalties are no more than a wee slap on the wrist.

Your assumptions are very questionable, since there are huge financial legal and corporate battles to come, featuring, just two, being |Ticketus and Boogle-eyed Craikie Whyte.

NewcoRFC will be a wounded animal for years to come!:greengrin

Gatecrasher
11-04-2012, 05:56 PM
Scottish Football really is ****ing corrupt. Maybe Romanov was right! I've bought my ST for next year already but if these proposals do go ahead and 'newco' RFC are re-admited, then I am finished with football, and you can quote me on that.

I honestly reckon though that the majority of fans feel the same as myself and change for the better may well happen sooner rather than later. I can't see things staying as they are forever more.

spot on, i am currently enjoying many other sports which are as fair as you would expect and are very open with their fans and sponsors. Scottish football is already in serious decline and i find it amazing that it seems absolutely nothing is being done about it also it looks as if they are willing to bend the rules to keep one of their top teams from any serious punishment despite cheating their way to many titles.

snooky
11-04-2012, 06:09 PM
This is, sadly, pish. A debt free Huns, freed from the Ticketus deal and living within their means will still have at least 3 or 4 times the turnover of all the clubs you mention. They might struggle to compete with Celtic but they will be able to carry on cherry picking from all the rest of us.

:agree: That's exactly how I see it.

The weasel clauses are being written already.

The 'punishment': giving Celtic the league for three years
How many times have Rangers been 10 points or more in front of the also-rans at the end of the season?
Not to mention the custom of game officials 'helping a friend' kicking in even more.

So, for the next three years the SPL placings will be ....
1) Celtic
2) Rangers
3) Perm any one from 10, etc

Oh dear.....

Weir7
11-04-2012, 06:26 PM
The only way is to tell RP what we as fans demand i.e. A clear unambiguous statement from Hibernian that as a club Hibernian are completely against allowing Rangers to remain in the SPL in the event that they go into Liquidation.

Don't hold your breath waiting for it though. Our board "don't do statements of intent" as that only leaves them open to ACCOUNTABILITY and we can't have that.

Rod is hoping the voting structure will get changed and this will allow huns to stay in league as part off this deal.

Rod won't come out and clearly state where he stands. He reacts to pressure and Hibs fans not coming through the turnstiles. All Hibs fans email him rpetrie@hibernianfc.co.uk demand answers. He needs to know were we stand

MSK
11-04-2012, 08:38 PM
No from me ..

Paisley Hibby
11-04-2012, 09:11 PM
Your assumptions are very questionable, since there are huge financial legal and corporate battles to come, featuring, just two, being |Ticketus and Boogle-eyed Craikie Whyte.

NewcoRFC will be a wounded animal for years to come!:greengrin

That's only true for the current Rangers. Those issues would not be a problem for a NewCo RFC as it would be a different legal entity. I had been hoping that Rangers would go into liquidation but now we know for sure that the SPL would simply roll over I hope they don't. I want the current hideous entity to have to limp on in the way you describe.

down-the-slope
11-04-2012, 09:32 PM
I must be one of the few who thinks these proposals are pretty decent in all the circumstances.

Gers will in some form remain..so for me it was about proper punishment. The SPL are separate from SFL so them dropping to SFL not really and option (I thought SPL 2 might be result with them starting in 2)

some of the comment so far seems nonsense. 75% reduction in SPL income would be massive as this is all the TV money. Points deduction is small but welcome. Also lets not forget no Europe for 3 years..so the chance for others to get champs league cash.

While far from perfect it at least shows that the other clubs / chairmen know that there is a chance for some change and are trying to goar the beast while its down...good for them...whetehr it gets passed though is another matter

jgl07
11-04-2012, 09:48 PM
Rod is hoping the voting structure will get changed and this will allow huns to stay in league as part off this deal.

Rod won't come out and clearly state where he stands. He reacts to pressure and Hibs fans not coming through the turnstiles. All Hibs fans email him rpetrie@hibernianfc.co.uk demand answers. He needs to know were we stand

Kick out Rangers and the 'Rebel 10' can outvote Celtc and push whatever rule changes through that they wish.

Rangers need to be demoted back to Division Three if they are liquidated. I will not have anything to do with Scottish Football again if this does not happen.

We need a unified responce to this one. I think that Aberdeen fans and other supporters share the same view.

hibbytam
11-04-2012, 10:09 PM
On 30 April 2012 the SPL Clubs will consider a range of proposals to amend the Articles and Rules of the SPL. A brief description of the effect of adopting the Resolutions is provided below.

Resolution 1 proposes an increase in the sporting sanction (points deduction) on any Club which suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event from 10 points to the greater of 15 points and 1/3 of the Club’s SPL points in the preceding season.

An increase in the penalty for going into administration is welcomed, but I don't think this goes far enough. Basically I think it should be almost impossible for a club in administration to survive in the SPL.


Resolution 2A proposes further sporting sanctions in the event that any Club undergoes an Insolvency Transfer Event (i.e. transfers its share in the SPL to a new company where this occurs because of the insolvency of the transferor) of 10 points in each of two consecutive seasons from the Insolvency Transfer Event.
Basically allowing rangers free reign to reform under a new company. Also it doesn't make sense for this punishment, which I can only imagine being for a club going into liquidation, to be worse than surviving a term in administration


Resolution 2B proposes revisions to the fee payment arrangements i.e. SPL fees to any Club which has undergone an Insolvency Transfer Event will be reduced by 75% in each of three consecutive seasons from the Insolvency Transfer Event.

I think this is the bit that is supposed to sell it to the other clubs. If so it fails, miserably. There's no indication as to where that money will go (the other clubs? Spl? Hole in the ground? SPL back pocket?), and is nowhere near a severe enough punishment for financial mis-management.
The punishment for insolvency should be an immediate removal from the league. Since the SPL can't dictate what the SFL would do, I would also include a ban on the new company from being admitted to the league for atleast 3 years, preferably 5.


Resolution 3 proposes extending sporting sanctions where an Insolvency Event is suffered by a Group Undertaking of a Member Club of the SPL (Group Undertaking is defined in Section 1161(5) of the Companies Act 2006).
Resolution 4 proposes updates and extensions to the definition of Insolvency
Event in the SPL Rules.

Resolution 5 proposes updates and extensions to the definition of Insolvency Event in the SPL Articles and clarifies the process in the event that a Member which is the subject of an Insolvency Event is required to transfer its share in the Company.


......I don't know what exactly these refer to, or what impact it would have. Looks like loophole closing.


Resolution 6 proposes a specific requirement in the SPL Rules that Clubs must pay their Players in terms of their Contracts of Service on due dates and places a duty on any Club to report any failure to pay its Players in a timely manner to the SPL. Failure to pay Players and / or to notify such failure to the SPL would be a breach of SPL Rules.


The only thing that astonishes me is that there isn't a rule like this already. Unclear what the consequences of this would be, apart from being a breach of rules. A clear, defined hierarchy of punishment needs to be established. Say first time, warning, second time, slap on wrists, third onwards serious punishment, including not allowing unpaid players to play, and a transfer embargo.


Resolution 7 proposes a requirement in the SPL Rules that Clubs report to the SPL any failure to make payments to HMRC in respect of PAYE and NIC (a Default Event). Any Club suffering such a Default Event will be subject to a Player Registration Embargo. Any failure to report a Default Event shall be a breach of the SPL Rules.

Again, why does this not already exist? and again, define a clear punishment. Especially for the failing to report bit.


Resolutions 2B and 5 require the support of a minimum of 11 Clubs to be adopted; all other Resolutions require the support of a minimum of 8 Clubs to be adopted.



If adopted the amendments to the Articles and Rules will have effect from and including 14 May 2012 (the day after the last day of Season 2011/2012).




If adopted in this form, expect a new rangers to be formed the next day. Because that seems to be what they're designed for. Some good changes, such as the tax and non payment of players, but overall it is not enough. We want rangers punished, not (only) because who they are and what they've been to Scottish football for the past 10-20 years especially, but because any failure to do otherwise will destroy the sporting integrity of the game. And if that happens, what's the point?

Saorsa
11-04-2012, 10:09 PM
I must be one of the few who thinks these proposals are pretty decent in all the circumstances.

Gers will in some form remain..so for me it was about proper punishment. The SPL are separate from SFL so them dropping to SFL not really and option (I thought SPL 2 might be result with them starting in 2)

some of the comment so far seems nonsense. 75% reduction in SPL income would be massive as this is all the TV money. Points deduction is small but welcome. Also lets not forget no Europe for 3 years..so the chance for others to get champs league cash.

While far from perfect it at least shows that the other clubs / chairmen know that there is a chance for some change and are trying to goar the beast while its down...good for them...whetehr it gets passed though is another matterThey wouldnae automatically drop tae the SFL if they were kicked out of the SPL but who cares as long as they're kicked out. Tae get back in tae fitba they would however be forced tae apply tae join the SFL and in doing so would have tae start at the bottom of the SFL in the 3rd division if they did get in. If they start next season in the SPL in any guise, I'll no be back, end of story. I've got better things tae dae with my dosh than give it tae the corrupt and morally bankrupt institutions that run Scottish fitba.

If they're in, I'm out.

TowerHibs
11-04-2012, 10:24 PM
I'm just sad that this will be the last time in a few generations to totally change Scottish football - strip it all back and get right back to basics. Germany accepted changed after the euros, stopped clubs buying players and wasting money on wages ad put everything back into the youth

Sadly, the SPL is all about money and the top clubs and not about the game of football! Noone is interested in the passion of fans or the excitement of a local team doing well - chairman are more excited at signing deals to make the club an extra £10k a year rather than earning the club that money the hard way through gaining supporters

I'm sure, in the light of the Henry McLeish report, the 12 SPL chairman all came out with a joint statement saying that: 1) all wages will be capped at 2/3k (EU law won't let that happen) 2) ticket prices are £15/£5. 3) Every club has a repobsibitly to go to primary schools and coach every week 4) local businesses support the club with catering, hospitality, printing and most importantly 5) that this will all take 5-10 years and that everyone in the game (fans, media, players) remain patient. At least this way we have a vision/plan and that everyone is pulling in same direction. Sure the quality would suffer in the short term but it is dire now! Let the u19's okay and by time they hit 25/26 they will be better players than what's on offer now. At least get some passion back

vla_di_vla
11-04-2012, 10:44 PM
Is it too late to organise a banner for the semi? Maybe try and get Aberdeen and even Hearts & Celtic fans involved. Something simple saying No new Rfc in spl. Everyone needs to know the strength of feeling here

PatHead
11-04-2012, 11:34 PM
Had a look on forums for Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and St Johnstone to see how they were reacting. A and DU were overwhelmingly against it with a large proportion saying they would give up altogether or follow lesser teams. Meanwhile only 25% of SJ fans were willing to walk away with the rest being quite happy to bend over and take it. Thinking about it though if SJ lose 1000 off their gate I would think they are Donald as well.

Seemingly it was the SPL board who came up with the proposals and this includes the St J chairman so have to assume he is in favour.

PatHead
11-04-2012, 11:38 PM
Is it too late to organise a banner for the semi? Maybe try and get Aberdeen and even Hearts & Celtic fans involved. Something simple saying No new Rfc in spl. Everyone needs to know the strength of feeling here

Could a chant such as Rangers must die, Rangers must die, Hullo, ,hullo, etc be arranged for half time to show the bigot brothers and our chairmen this is entirely unacceptable? Any section 49 boys get started organising this?

BT58
12-04-2012, 07:09 AM
Whats to stop the yams from doing exact same as huns
Ffs SPL = LAUGHING STOCK
If huns go into liquidation, demote them,,
Bt

Posh Swanny
12-04-2012, 08:39 AM
Hibs have voluntarily put themselves through the ringer in the last 10 years to get themselves back onto an even keel financially. A decade of, on the whole, mediocre results and thrashings at the hands of Hearts has been painful for the whole club but it should be held up as the shining example of how to pay down dangerously high debts while still managing to run a fairly-competetive football club. But just as it looks like some chickens are finally coming home to roost and that Hibs may finally benefit from their years of prudence as others run scared and start to cut back in fear of being demoted/liquidated, Rangers look like being able to wipe the slate clean overnight and lose just ten points a season. Rod Petrie and Tom Farmer must be wondering why they bothered.

Ozyhibby
12-04-2012, 08:47 AM
Hibs have voluntarily put themselves through the ringer in the last 10 years to get themselves back onto an even keel financially. A decade of, on the whole, mediocre results and thrashings at the hands of Hearts has been painful for the whole club but it should be held up as the shining example of how to pay down dangerously high debts while still managing to run a fairly-competetive football club. But just as it looks like some chickens are finally coming home to roost and that Hibs may finally benefit from their years of prudence as others run scared and start to cut back in fear of being demoted/liquidated, Rangers look like being able to wipe the slate clean overnight and lose just ten points a season. Rod Petrie and Tom Farmer must be wondering why they bothered.

I'm certainly beginning to wonder why I bother. If this goes through then I won't.

renato
12-04-2012, 08:48 AM
The Yam's will be watching this very closely. Extremely disappointing if this is the extent to which the Hun's will be punished, the SPL have bottled it. Don't hold your breath but wouldn't it be refreshing to hear the chairmen oppose this farce...

Gatecrasher
12-04-2012, 09:02 AM
There is a good post on the bounce which compared it to turning up to a poker game where the dealer was fixing the game to give his pals the advantage.
It's like turning up to a poker game, knowing two players are at the fiddle. The dealer is helping them the whole time. You just wouldn't go.Sums it up IMO

Onion
12-04-2012, 09:27 AM
The Yam's will be watching this very closely. Extremely disappointing if this is the extent to which the Hun's will be punished, the SPL have bottled it. Don't hold your breath but wouldn't it be refreshing to hear the chairmen oppose this farce...

Some of the chairmen must have been involved in drafting 2A - SHAME ON THEM. Even if 2A doesn't get approved, it is shameful that it has even been considered as a possibility. Who are the people who have drafted this resolution - they should be hung out to dry !

Onion
12-04-2012, 09:34 AM
I've held off renewing my ST until the mess with RFC was sorted - an glad I did.

Just as the RFC buyers are allowed to reconsider their offers, for the very same reason, Hibs should offer a money back option to those who have bot their ST in good faith. Certainly if I had already bot, I would now be writing to Hibs demanding my money back. This is the only language these people understand.

blackpoolhibs
12-04-2012, 09:37 AM
I've held off renewing my ST until the mess with RFC was sorted - an glad I did.

Just as the RFC buyers are allowed to reconsider their offers, for the very same reason, Hibs should offer a money back option to those who have bot their ST in good faith. Certainly if I had already bot, I would now be writing to Hibs demanding my money back. This is the only language these people understand.

Maybe its just me, but after reading this i want to put talc on my erse now. :wink:

renato
12-04-2012, 09:40 AM
Some of the chairmen must have been involved in drafting 2A - SHAME ON THEM. Even if 2A doesn't get approved, it is shameful that it has even been considered as a possibility. Who are the people who have drafted this resolution - they should be hung out to dry !

Yep agree, extremely disappointing but not unexpected. Would be very interested to get Rod's take on this given his outspoken stance on that TV programme a few weeks back....

ahibby
12-04-2012, 09:49 AM
Everyone has the right to protest in a way the see fit, however denying Hibs of much needed cash isn't going to solve anything. Those following the various tv programmes discussing Rangers alleged illegal activities will have heard weeks ago that the worst outcome for them will be middle table mediocrity for about three seasons, then it will be business as usual. While a few of the clubs in the SPL would prefer Rangers to be out, and Hibs will be among those clubs, there is nothing they can do. Similarly there is not much we can do as fans but boycotting Hibs for Rangers and SPL failings is like biting of our nose to spite our face. That's my view but I respect those who are prepared to take whatever peaceful stance they deem necessary.

Don Giovanni
12-04-2012, 10:02 AM
Anyone else think that the timing of this proposal is designed to disrupt / compromise the meeting of the 10 clubs and any subsequent declarations from the majority of the League?

As for the content of these proposals, they don't go far enough. They are designed to shape the scenario we all knew the authorities would conspire to create. We are kidding ourselves if we think the rules and regulations will be applied fairly and equally to the bigot institution.

No NewHun in the SPL - that's non-negotiable!

JimBHibees
12-04-2012, 10:10 AM
How would people feel if the compromise was that to accept these proposals that the voting system would change from 11-1 to 9-3? Would that be a price worth paying?

If nothing as fundamental as a change to the absurd voting structure is involved then I am not sure why other clubs would accept.

Saorsa
12-04-2012, 10:12 AM
How would people feel if the compromise was that to accept these proposals that the voting system would change from 11-1 to 9-3? Would that be a price worth paying?

If nothing as fundamental as a change to the absurd voting structure is involved then I am not sure why other clubs would accept.Wouldnae change a thing as far as I'm concerned.

PatHead
12-04-2012, 10:44 AM
Everyone has the right to protest in a way the see fit, however denying Hibs of much needed cash isn't going to solve anything. Those following the various tv programmes discussing Rangers alleged illegal activities will have heard weeks ago that the worst outcome for them will be middle table mediocrity for about three seasons, then it will be business as usual. While a few of the clubs in the SPL would prefer Rangers to be out, and Hibs will be among those clubs, there is nothing they can do. Similarly there is not much we can do as fans but boycotting Hibs for Rangers and SPL failings is like biting of our nose to spite our face. That's my view but I respect those who are prepared to take whatever peaceful stance they deem necessary.

I understand what you are saying, however, I am fed up spending what must amount to thousands of pounds over the years following HIbs playing like a boxer with one hand tied behind their backs. You always knew that Celtic and Rangers would do better than us and this made the victories all the sweeter on the infrequent occassions they occured over the last 15 years.

We were able to laugh at clubs like Hearts in their financial meltdown knowing that one day there would be justice when it all fell apart whilst we lived within our means. Even today on Hibs.net there is talk of both Hibs and Hearts looking at the same goalkeeper. We all know where he will end up.

Now the SPL are saying that apart from Hibs fighting with one hand behind their back, the Old Firm and any overspenders are now able to kick us in the balls when they like and we aren't allowed to do anything about it. IT IS JUST NOT FAIR AND I DON'T SEE THE SENSE IN THROWING GOOD MONEY AFTER BAD IF THIS HAPPENS. I really would lose interest as it just flies in the face of "Fair Play", Sporting behaviour etc. Why bother watching an unfair contest?

JeMeSouviens
12-04-2012, 10:50 AM
Everyone has the right to protest in a way the see fit, however denying Hibs of much needed cash isn't going to solve anything. Those following the various tv programmes discussing Rangers alleged illegal activities will have heard weeks ago that the worst outcome for them will be middle table mediocrity for about three seasons, then it will be business as usual. While a few of the clubs in the SPL would prefer Rangers to be out, and Hibs will be among those clubs, there is nothing they can do. Similarly there is not much we can do as fans but boycotting Hibs for Rangers and SPL failings is like biting of our nose to spite our face. That's my view but I respect those who are prepared to take whatever peaceful stance they deem necessary.

This is *not* true.

Either NewHuns need to come back via the existing rules, article 14 of the SPL articles of association, which requires an 11-1 vote.

Or, they need the new resolution 5 which we don't know the detail of but is all about legitimising the bogus concept of an "insolvency transfer event". This also requires an 11-1 vote.


Bottom line: any 2 SPL clubs voting together can stop NewHuns from taking a place in next season's SPL.

Hibrandenburg
12-04-2012, 11:07 AM
I understand what you are saying, however, I am fed up spending what must amount to thousands of pounds over the years following HIbs playing like a boxer with one hand tied behind their backs. You always knew that Celtic and Rangers would do better than us and this made the victories all the sweeter on the infrequent occassions they occured over the last 15 years.

We were able to laugh at clubs like Hearts in their financial meltdown knowing that one day there would be justice when it all fell apart whilst we lived within our means. Even today on Hibs.net there is talk of both Hibs and Hearts looking at the same goalkeeper. We all know where he will end up.

Now the SPL are saying that apart from Hibs fighting with one hand behind their back, the Old Firm and any overspenders are now able to kick us in the balls when they like and we aren't allowed to do anything about it. IT IS JUST NOT FAIR AND I DON'T SEE THE SENSE IN THROWING GOOD MONEY AFTER BAD IF THIS HAPPENS. I really would lose interest as it just flies in the face of "Fair Play", Sporting behaviour etc. Why bother watching an unfair contest?
Excellent post and comparison.

Rantic have been taking our dinner money off us for so long that I'd now rather go without any lunch whatsoever than continue to line their pockets.

Caversham Green
12-04-2012, 11:11 AM
A decent article in the Herald.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/proposed-changes-to-spl-rules-hold-up-naming-of-rangers-preferred-bidder.17284627

The bottom line is that the SPL is not and never has been a sporting organisation. It is fundamentally flawed and this is the point where it should be disbanded rather than just shifting the rules a bit.

KanyeWestLower
12-04-2012, 11:16 AM
http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=11256



Classic barn door closing activity.

Personally, I think the fairest way of deducting points is to deduct the appropriate number of points to ensure that the offending team is guaranteed relegation.
Pretty fair and simple punishment in my eyes.

Resolution 6 and 7 should include all employees of a member club, not just playing staff. Should also include an embargo on signing players from the point of the default until the end of the season (Should include per-contract signings as well)

Phil D. Rolls
12-04-2012, 12:38 PM
It seems to me that Scotland is at a crossroads in many ways. Do we want to spend the rest of our days whingeing about how bigger institutions and countries keep us screwed down, and there is nothing poor us can do about it? Even though the power is in our hands to make changes.

Sadly, I think the answer is yes. Maybe in another generation's time, we will have got rid of the OF, but I think that it is more likely that they will have gotten rid of us.