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View Full Version : Sproule - Play him on the right - or don't play him at all



Forza Fred
02-04-2012, 12:33 PM
dont get to see every game granted, but running an analytical eye over the live broadcast of the Inverness game it wasn't hard to see that Ivan ws toiling a bit, confirming recent opinions gleaned from places such as here.

Now I was at Ibrox when he scored his hat trick and yes, there is no doubt that he is not the same player that he was then.

However, I think his fall from grace is exacerbated by being played on the left.

I lost count of the number of times he tried to get the ball on to his right foot to make a simple pass, wasting valuable seconds in doing so, and on more than one occasion getting caught in possession as a result.

This thread is not designed to set off a debate on the merits of otherwise of playing Ivan, but if I can see that playing him on the left is a complete and utter waste of time, why cant Fenlon?'

It may well be the case that he is deemed to be not up to much on the right hand side even, but MY Dog, I really think it IS a case of either play him on the right, or simply dont play him'at all'..playing him on the left is accomplishing nothing other than adding to everybody's frustrations, probably including Ivan's.

Elephant Stone
02-04-2012, 12:39 PM
He's been pretty useless, whether it's because of which wing he's been or not it's hard to say but one thing is for sure, as with the strikers, he's had **** all service. Everyone knows what he's good at, give him a decent pass to run onto and he'll beat most defenders for pace, I honestly can barely remember him having one single decent weighted pass to run onto. The whole midfield is a shambles, has been for at least 2 years.

lapsedhibee
02-04-2012, 12:39 PM
dont get to see every game granted, but running an analytical eye over the live broadcast of the Inverness game it wasn't hard to see that Ivan ws toiling a bit, confirming recent opinions gleaned from places such as here.

Now I was at Ibrox when he scored his hat trick and yes, there is no doubt that he is not the same player that he was then.

However, I think his fall from grace is exacerbated by being played on the left.

I lost count of the number of times he tried to get the ball on to his right foot to make a simple pass, wasting valuable seconds in doing so, and on more than one occasion getting caught in possession as a result.

This thread is not designed to set off a debate on the merits of otherwise of playing Ivan, but if I can see that playing him on the left is a complete and utter waste of time, why cant Fenlon?'

It may well be the case that he is deemed to be not up to much on the right hand side even, but MY Dog, I really think it IS a case of either play him on the right, or simply dont play him'at all'..playing him on the left is accomplishing nothing other than adding to everybody's frustrations, probably including Ivan's.

Really not sure that Ivan's smart enough to be an effective footballer into his latter years. Yet again on Sunday he committed a pointless and unnecessary foul, in stoppage time, which gave the 'sneckians one last chance to heave the ball high into our penalty area.

blackpoolhibs
02-04-2012, 12:55 PM
I agree, on the right or not at all. I was one of those who thought if he still had his pace, he'd be fine back at Easter road.

Well its clear he's lost it, and that was his main asset, another waste of a wage imo, yet we dont really have anyone else who's better for that right sided midfielder position.

Andy74
02-04-2012, 01:08 PM
I agree, on the right or not at all. I was one of those who thought if he still had his pace, he'd be fine back at Easter road.

Well its clear he's lost it, and that was his main asset, another waste of a wage imo, yet we dont really have anyone else who's better for that right sided midfielder position.

Yeah, he is being outpaced by average players now. There have been loads of instances of looking like he should be able to get by people or beat them to loose balls and he hasn't managed.

I think this is why he isn't on the right. If he isn't going to get by people to the bye line then his best chance is when he does that cutting in from the left move and then he can hit with his right. That's the only sort of threat we get from him.

I think the thought of Sproule on the right is better than the current reality.

We need wide players with trickery and pace and I hope Fenlon is looking for them. Sproule, Galbraith and Wotherspoon can all go to clear the way.

Fenlon still likes that Lithuanian guy who wasn't fit enough in Janaury I believe so he might be one option.

hibee_girl
02-04-2012, 01:30 PM
He's been pretty useless, whether it's because of which wing he's been or not it's hard to say but one thing is for sure, as with the strikers, he's had **** all service. Everyone knows what he's good at, give him a decent pass to run onto and he'll beat most defenders for pace, I honestly can barely remember him having one single decent weighted pass to run onto. The whole midfield is a shambles, has been for at least 2 years.

:agree:

blackpoolhibs
02-04-2012, 01:49 PM
He's been pretty useless, whether it's because of which wing he's been or not it's hard to say but one thing is for sure, as with the strikers, he's had **** all service. Everyone knows what he's good at, give him a decent pass to run onto and he'll beat most defenders for pace, I honestly can barely remember him having one single decent weighted pass to run onto. The whole midfield is a shambles, has been for at least 2 years.

You could apply that to every player, our keepers crap because he's had no protection. Our full backs are pash because of who plays in front of them. Our centre halves are crap because the midfield give them no help, and the forwards are poor because they get no support.

Good players are good players, and play well no matter who's next to them. Cream rises to the top, we are 11th and never even threatened a top 6 place for a reason, we are not very good individually and collectively.

Billy Whizz
02-04-2012, 01:51 PM
Seem to get a bad injury yesterday. Anyone heard how he is?

Elephant Stone
02-04-2012, 01:57 PM
. Our centre halves are crap because the midfield give them no help

Sean O'Hanlon will be shi-ite regardless of who's playing in front of him. Paul Hanlon's positioning has been awful, this wouldn't have been any different if there was a decent midfield, there might have been less opportunities for his positioning to have been exploited but it wasn't good enough through his own fault. I think McPake is playing well despite our non-existent midfield.


Good players are good players, and play well no matter who's next to them. .

Of course they're still good players but they aren't able to play well if their team mates don't pass to them properly and don't support them by making runs. How can a slim, relatively small striker competing with two big centre halves be expected to play well if all he gets are high balls closer to the opposition?

blackpoolhibs
02-04-2012, 02:03 PM
Sean O'Hanlon will be shi-ite regardless of who's playing in front of him. Paul Hanlon's positioning has been awful, this wouldn't have been any different if there was a decent midfield, there might have been less opportunities for his positioning to have been exploited but it wasn't good enough through his own fault. I think McPake is playing well despite our non-existent midfield.



Of course they're still good players but they aren't able to play well if their team mates don't pass to them properly and don't support them by making runs. How can a slim, relatively small striker competing with two big centre halves be expected to play well if all he gets are high balls closer to the opposition?

I dont quite understand this argument, on the one hand McPake can play well in a poor side, but Sproule cant?:confused:

And why would you put two big centre halves in the argument, when its the left backs he's not been able to get past?:confused:

blackpoolhibs
02-04-2012, 02:04 PM
Seem to get a bad injury yesterday. Anyone heard how he is?

It looked as if he was being treated for cramp. :dunno:

Elephant Stone
02-04-2012, 02:12 PM
I dont quite understand this argument, on the one hand McPake can play well in a poor side, but Sproule cant?:confused:

You said that the defence is bad because there's no midfield, I said McPake is playing well and you're wrong. What's not to understand?


And why would you put two big centre halves in the argument, when its the left backs he's not been able to get past?:confused:

You said that good players play well regardless of who they're playing with. I used a small striker against a big defender as an example, don't you agree with it? For Sproule the same thing could be said, Sproule needs the ball on the ground to play well, he needs a decent weighted pass in front of him to run onto and to run with momentum at the defenders, if the players around him are passing the ball behind him, straight out of play and to the opposition is he still expected to play well when the service he absolutely needs is nowhere to be seen? It's really not difficult to understand.

blackpoolhibs
02-04-2012, 02:20 PM
You said that the defence is bad because there's no midfield, I said McPake is playing well and you're wrong. What's not to understand?

No i didn't, it was to make the point its just an excuse fans and players make because of poor form.

You said that good players play well regardless of who they're playing with. I used a small striker against a big defender as an example, don't you agree with it? For Sproule the same thing could be said, Sproule needs the ball on the ground to play well, he needs a decent weighted pass in front of him to run onto and to run with momentum at the defenders, if the players around him are passing the ball behind him, straight out of play and to the opposition is he still expected to play well when the service he absolutely needs is nowhere to be seen? It's really not difficult to understand.

No you didn't, you said Sproule against 2 big centre halves, when all season he's played wide, and cant get past his full back, big or small. As usual its somebody else's fault.

He's had plenty of decent balls to run onto, but his lack of basic skill and pace now, show him up to be what he is, a poor player, with little skill, no tricks and a poor delivery.

Elephant Stone
02-04-2012, 02:27 PM
No you didn't, you said Sproule against 2 big centre halves, when all season he's played wide, and cant get past his full back, big or small. As usual its somebody else's fault.


That's not what I said. You said that good players should always play well no matter who they're playing with. I used the example of a small striker competing against big defenders being given high balls by his team mates to show that what you said isn't always the case. The striker there needs a certain kind of service, ball to feet presumably. I'm saying that Sproule also needs a certain kind of service and he hasn't been getting it, which is why I don't want to dismiss him completely until he's had a chance to prove himself in a team which understands his play type and can give him the kind of service which allows him to play to his strengths. Whether or not he still has those strengths I'm not sure but I don't think he's had the service to allow him to show it.

blackpoolhibs
02-04-2012, 02:35 PM
That's not what I said. You said that good players should always play well no matter who they're playing with. I used the example of a small striker competing against big defenders being given high balls by his team mates to show that what you said isn't always the case. The striker there needs a certain kind of service, ball to feet presumably. I'm saying that Sproule also needs a certain kind of service and he hasn't been getting it, which is why I don't want to dismiss him completely until he's had a chance to prove himself in a team which understands his play type and can give him the kind of service which allows him to play to his strengths. Whether or not he still has those strengths I'm not sure but I don't think he's had the service to allow him to show it.

You are changing it though, you said Sproule needs a decent ball to beat big defenders, then mentioned 2 centre halves, i have no idea why?

Then its changed to big defenders, and with Sproule not being the biggest, i'd imagine most defenders or full backs who he's more than likely be up against would probably be as big if not bigger. So going by what you say, unless Sproule gets the perfect ball, we shouldn't expect him to do much during a game?

I dont expect it anyway, he certainly could take a ball 1st time round, push it past his marker and run like the wind to put a cross in, never the best at delivering, but he did get past his marker then. Thats rarely the case now, a waste of a jersey imo.

HUTCHYHIBBY
02-04-2012, 02:40 PM
Don't play him at all. Hibs legend, but, its a while ago now.

Elephant Stone
02-04-2012, 02:43 PM
You are changing it though, you said Sproule needs a decent ball to beat big defenders, then mentioned 2 centre halves, i have no idea why?

Then its changed to big defenders, and with Sproule not being the biggest, i'd imagine most defenders or full backs who he's more than likely be up against would probably be as big if not bigger. So going by what you say, unless Sproule gets the perfect ball, we shouldn't expect him to do much during a game?

I dont expect it anyway, he certainly could take a ball 1st time round, push it past his marker and run like the wind to put a cross in, never the best at delivering, but he did get past his marker then. Thats rarely the case now, a waste of a jersey imo.

Read the post again mate, I never mentioned Sproule with the big defenders, it might look like I meant Sproule but I was saying that you're wrong when you said that good players should always play well no matter who they're playing with. I was using the striker/ big defender thing as an example, that what you said can't always be the case, Sproule isn't even a striker so I don't understand the confusion. I've already said what Sproule specificly needs and isn't getting anyway so I don't know why you're persisting with this.

blackpoolhibs
02-04-2012, 02:47 PM
Read the post again mate, I never mentioned Sproule with the big defenders, it might look like I meant Sproule but I was saying that you're wrong when you said that good players should always play well no matter who they're playing with. I was using the striker/ big defender thing as an example, that what you said can't always be the case, Sproule isn't even a striker so I don't understand the confusion. I've already said what Sproule specificly needs and isn't getting anyway so I don't know why you're persisting with this.

No problem, if i have picked you up wrong i apologise. I just dont think he has it anymore, i wanted him back if he was as good as the Ivan that left, imo he's not.

He cant get past a player now, and where i will disagree with you is he has had plenty of times to go past players, but does not have that pace anymore. He never had a trick, or enough skill to beat a man, and with the pace gone he's just not up to it imo.

easty
02-04-2012, 02:52 PM
I thought this was going to be a poll, I was ready to vote "don't play him at all".

hibee_girl
02-04-2012, 03:19 PM
Seem to get a bad injury yesterday. Anyone heard how he is?


It looked as if he was being treated for cramp. :dunno:

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20120402/sproule-injury-update_2262950_2711045 - not as bad as first feared thankfully :aok:

NORTHERNHIBBY
02-04-2012, 03:51 PM
Not at all for me. I think we had the best of him the first time around. This time he has been a political/vanity signing that has just not paid off. Some of his showings, for whatever reasons, are just tarnishing good memories.

thebakerboy
02-04-2012, 04:36 PM
I think he should be playing in the stand and not on the pitch , he brought nothing to the game yesterday , a complete waste of a jersey just now , and should never ev er be played on the left .

Andy74
02-04-2012, 04:50 PM
Did Fenlon comment on his desire to win and the right attitude and spirit that he brings to the team yesterday? For me that's about all he is contributing just now and whilst these attributes are lacking in some other players we need to get players for next season who have spirit but who can also still play!

HibbyAndy
02-04-2012, 04:57 PM
Ivan will always be one of my hero's..Great great memorys from the wee guy, BUT, Id bin him Galbraith and Wotherspoon in the summer, I just dont see what any of these players bring to the table, Bin them all and free up a wage for a Humphrey from Motherwell like sighnin in the summer.


Pains me to say it Ivan but you offer nothing whatsoever to the team. The pace which was your main asset has clearly gone im afraid.

SquashedFrogg
02-04-2012, 05:49 PM
No problem, if i have picked you up wrong i apologise. I just dont think he has it anymore, i wanted him back if he was as good as the Ivan that left, imo he's not.

He cant get past a player now, and where i will disagree with you is he has had plenty of times to go past players, but does not have that pace anymore. He never had a trick, or enough skill to beat a man, and with the pace gone he's just not up to it imo.

This :agree:

Leith Green
02-04-2012, 06:16 PM
Should definatley be looking to offload Sproule along with Murray, O connor, Galbraith ,wetherspoon, O hanlon, Stack and Brown.

Winston Ingram
02-04-2012, 09:35 PM
dont get to see every game granted, but running an analytical eye over the live broadcast of the Inverness game it wasn't hard to see that Ivan ws toiling a bit, confirming recent opinions gleaned from places such as here.

Now I was at Ibrox when he scored his hat trick and yes, there is no doubt that he is not the same player that he was then.

However, I think his fall from grace is exacerbated by being played on the left.

I lost count of the number of times he tried to get the ball on to his right foot to make a simple pass, wasting valuable seconds in doing so, and on more than one occasion getting caught in possession as a result.

This thread is not designed to set off a debate on the merits of otherwise of playing Ivan, but if I can see that playing him on the left is a complete and utter waste of time, why cant Fenlon?'

It may well be the case that he is deemed to be not up to much on the right hand side even, but MY Dog, I really think it IS a case of either play him on the right, or simply dont play him'at all'..playing him on the left is accomplishing nothing other than adding to everybody's frustrations, probably including Ivan's.

Couldn't agree more. I really don't get why we are playing him there. His left foot is so bad that he pretty much miss kicks every time he uses it. When he cuts in on the right he just runs into people.

He was always fairly one dimensional but his pace at this level still made him effective. On the left, he doesn't use it as he's always looking to get back on his right

GreenCastle
02-04-2012, 09:42 PM
Couldn't agree more. I really don't get why we are playing him there. His left foot is so bad that he pretty much miss kicks every time he uses it. When he cuts in on the right he just runs into people.

He was always fairly one dimensional but his pace at this level still made him effective. On the left, he doesn't use it as he's always looking to get back on his right

:agree:

Ivan needs space to play and run.

Playing on the left means he cuts in and has less space and looses the ball too easily.

Soares would be the starting right midfield if fit but seems to struggle with injury.

I like Ivan's character at the club but would see him more as an impact player off the bench next season.

Dashing Bob S
02-04-2012, 11:15 PM
:agree:

Ivan needs space to play and run.

Playing on the left means he cuts in and has less space and looses the ball too easily.

Soares would be the starting right midfield if fit but seems to struggle with injury.

I like Ivan's character at the club but would see him more as an impact player off the bench next season.

If he has a future at Hibs it's as a last twenty minute sub on the right. I'm not sure I buy that his pace has gone, I think he just can't deploy it over the 90. By trying to 'pace' himself he negates his only real asset. Bring him on down the right in the last twenty and he'll still do damage.

Wotherspiniesta
02-04-2012, 11:36 PM
What's more worrying is Fenlon's idea to play Osbourne at right midfield. MUCH more influential at CM.

Archie70
02-04-2012, 11:53 PM
I think the whole point of him playing on the left yesterday was to help Kujabi cover Hayes, which I think he did to fairly good effect. As a result of being asked to, and performing these defensive duties, he wasn't playing as we all remember him, an attacking winger. His attacking play wasn't great, however I don't think his overall contribution was too bad.

The_Horde
02-04-2012, 11:58 PM
He's still one of the quickest players in this league IMO if not the quickest, I don't think that's the problem with Ivan. Most of the reason why Ivan was so useful in his last spell was his unpredictability and naivety, he would always just run at defenders and cause mayhem but since his return he seems to have matured and almost become too much of a football player.

Also I think there is no coincidence that when he was here last he was surrounded by brilliant players who could keep the ball for fun and now we couldn't be any further from that.

Andy74
03-04-2012, 06:34 AM
;3166956']He's still one of the quickest players in this league IMO if not the quickest, I don't think that's the problem with Ivan. Most of the reason why Ivan was so useful in his last spell was his unpredictability and naivety, he would always just run at defenders and cause mayhem but since his return he seems to have matured and almost become too much of a football player.

Also I think there is no coincidence that when he was here last he was surrounded by brilliant players who could keep the ball for fun and now we couldn't be any further from that.

Naw. He is nowhere near one of the quickest now.

number9dream
03-04-2012, 08:41 AM
Is Booth injured or out of the picture? Surely he could do a job in front of Kujabi - decent pace, delivers a good cross...

From watching the highlights, Hayes was the stand out player on Sunday. Is he out of contract in the summer and could he be tempted to ER?

Phil MaGlass
03-04-2012, 08:45 AM
He may not be the quickest now or the most complete footballer yo will ever see but the fact he is playing for us and giving his best makes him one of us, SO GET BEHIND HIM AND THE TEAM FROM NOW UNTIL THE END OF THE SEASON.
more positivity please.

Golden Bear
03-04-2012, 09:50 AM
He still talks a good game though!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17593159

blackpoolhibs
03-04-2012, 09:55 AM
He still talks a good game though!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17593159

"Individually, we're as good as any team in the league

Does he think we are stupid? :rolleyes:

Stop talking nonsense Ivan, and make us eat our words.

Andy74
03-04-2012, 10:00 AM
"Individually, we're as good as any team in the league

Does he think we are stupid? :rolleyes:

Stop talking nonsense Ivan, and make us eat our words.

We're not. Take Sproule for example as far as wide/creative players go he is way behind the likes of Hayes, Humphrey, Mackay-Steven, Fyvie, Templeton and McGowan.

hibee_girl
03-04-2012, 10:16 AM
He still talks a good game though!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17593159

He's right though, if we win the cup then it will be the best season ever :greengrin

cabbageandribs1875
03-04-2012, 10:37 AM
the wee man is not one of RP's better signings :(