Even the Telegraph is kicking the Tories over the fuel panic they started

[Hibbyradge]

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F politics%2Fconservative%2F9176237%2FEven-Im-starting-to-wonder-what-do-this-lot-know-about-anything.html&h=wAQF0mkil

[Hibbyradge]

What a farce. People have died because of this Government's politics and they now admit it was all unnecessary.

Oh well, what's a woman's life if it's taken our focus off the budget?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17570627

[ginger_rice]

I'm hoping that this is the beginning of the end for this odious government!

[Eyrie]

What a farce. People have died because of this Government's politics and they now admit it was all unnecessary.

Oh well, what's a woman's life if it's taken our focus off the budget?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17570627
I don't see how this tragic accident can be blamed on any politician. Whilst the comment about storing petrol in jerry cans was incredibly stupid, it was her decision to decant petrol in a kitchen with the cooker on rather than outside.

Let's hope she makes a good recovery.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I don't see how this tragic accident can be blamed on any politician. Whilst the comment about storing petrol in jerry cans was incredibly stupid, it was her decision to decant petrol in a kitchen with the cooker on rather than outside.

Let's hope she makes a good recovery.

In an era of collective responsibility, I take the blame for doing nothing about the governments flawed Jerry can policy - and I think everyone else should too.

Yet another example of politicians managing bad news. When was the last time we heard reports about our performance compared to our European neighbours? Instead we've had nonsense stories about Greggs, the Arab spring, and b*nkers bonuses.

We won't get fooled again, er...

[Eyrie]

We won't get fooled again, er...
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[Speedy]

I don't see how this tragic accident can be blamed on any politician. Whilst the comment about storing petrol in jerry cans was incredibly stupid, it was her decision to decant petrol in a kitchen with the cooker on rather than outside.

Let's hope she makes a good recovery.

Agreed

[Phil D. Rolls]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

I just can't explain why I feel that way.

[Dashing Bob S]

I just can't explain why I feel that way.

I wonder who's next with another childish pun about a serious incident?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I wonder who's next with another childish pun about a serious incident?

There's no substitute for debating the facts. :agree:

[RyeSloan]

What a farce. People have died because of this Government's politics and they now admit it was all unnecessary.

Oh well, what's a woman's life if it's taken our focus off the budget?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17570627

So nothing to do with Unite's politics then....why look for the root cause when you can use any incident to have a go at 'this Governments politics' and to suggest that there was some sort of grand plan to find someone daft enough to decant petrol in the kitchen when cooking their dinner to use as a smokescreen to shield the government from criticism of the budget is just plain stupid.

[Hibbyradge]

So nothing to do with Unite's politics then....why look for the root cause when you can use any incident to have a go at 'this Governments politics' and to suggest that there was some sort of grand plan to find someone daft enough to decant petrol in the kitchen when cooking their dinner to use as a smokescreen to shield the government from criticism of the budget is just plain stupid.

The root cause is the government's cynical handling of the union members' democratic and perfectly legal vote in a (successful) attempt to deflect attention from their help the rich budget.

Unite haven't even sad that they're definitely going on strike and they haven't even suggested a potential date and they have to give 7 days notice anyway! In fact, they're meeting with their employer and Apex this week to try to resolve their differences.

Even the chairman of the Retail Motor Industry has accused the government of creating a "crisis" where none existed and that organisation is hardly a trotskyist hotbed.

The government have been back tracking since they told everyone to fill up. The imposter Clegg is in the press today saying that there's no need to worry.

It's an utter shambles and to blame the union is ridiculous.

Panic, panic, something might happen sometime. I'm surprised we're not being told to stock up on corned beef given that they've sent a warship off to the South Atlantic again!

[RyeSloan]

The root cause is the government's cynical handling of the union members' democratic and perfectly legal vote in a (successful) attempt to deflect attention from their help the rich budget.

Unite haven't even sad that they're definitely going on strike and they haven't even suggested a potential date and they have to give 7 days notice anyway! In fact, they're meeting with their employer and Apex this week to try to resolve their differences.

Even the chairman of the Retail Motor Industry has accused the government of creating a "crisis" where none existed and that organisation is hardly a trotskyist hotbed.

The government have been back tracking since they told everyone to fill up. The imposter Clegg is in the press today saying that there's no need to worry.

It's an utter shambles and to blame the union is ridiculous.

Panic, panic, something might happen sometime. I'm surprised we're not being told to stock up on corned beef given that they've sent a warship off to the South Atlantic again!

Ahh OK so despite a previous fuel crisis that left the country at a stand still it's was all the cynical governments fault.

Absolutely nothing to do with Unite walking out of talks with the employers then, nor Len ‘lets strike during the Olympics' McClusky wanting to force an 'industry wide bargaining forum' on employers.

Sure the government response was a bit muddled but what was soooo cynical about the advice? If anyone is to 'blame' (there always has to be blame doesn't there!?!) is it not the motorists who despite being told NOT to panic buy and to be sensible about their fuel purchases just rushed out and went panic buying instead?? No defending the store fuel in a jerry can suggestion but again that's only because people can’t be trusted to store it in a sensible manner.

I just don't buy the idea that the government saw this vote and thought 'aha lets give muddled advice which we can get kicked over to show we are incompetent but at least it will take the budget off the front page'

For the record the budget did 'help the rich' via a tax cut over 150k but also moved towards taxing wealth rather than income via the stamp duty move...not to mention the increase in personal allowances that help all tax payers and which is proportionately more significant for lower income earners. There was also the capping of tax deductable allowances which was aimed at reducing the scope for 'the rich' to reduce their tax liabilities…so maybe not entirely the ‘help the rich’ budget you like to suggest it was.

You are obviously wedded to the idea that a 50p rate which Labour only put in place in the dying days of their long time in office is somehow now a vital piece of equality making legislation, which it never was and never would be (hence why Labour never wanted it in the first place but thought it would be a great wheeze to land the Tories with)....I must have missed the speech where Milliband confirmed in no uncertain terms that he will definitely re-introduce the rate if Labour get into power…..

[Hibbyradge]

Ahh OK so despite a previous fuel crisis that left the country at a stand still it's was all the cynical governments fault.



Did you read the Guardian article? They seem to agree with me.

However, I'm not sure what point you're making. Workers have a legal right to organise and to withdraw their labour when they're in dispute.

If the employer or government wants to avoid the fall out from any potential dispute, they should negotiate and compromise.

Few workers want to lose their pay by going on strike so when they do, they are demonstrating their strength of feeling. Just dismissing this as the act of any particular Union leader is naive and probably explains why industrial relations are so poor in certain areas.




Len ‘lets strike during the Olympics' McClusky



McCluskey: "The attacks that are being launched on public sector workers at the moment are so deep and ideological that the idea the world should arrive in London and have these wonderful Olympic Games as though everything is nice and rosy in the garden is unthinkable," he said. "The unions, and the general community, have got every right to be out protesting. If the Olympics provide us with an opportunity, then that's exactly one that we should be looking at."

Of course unions are going to use the Olympics as a bargaining tool.

The government are content that £24bn is spent on fun and games for 2 and a half weeks in London. They could easily avoid potential disruption during this fantastic, joyful celebration of sport, by taking care of the workforce they rely on to make it happen.

The lives and working conditions of British employees are far more important than folk running around a field or splashing about in a swimming pool.

And don't get me started on the wonderful legacy!


Sure the government response was a bit muddled but what was soooo cynical about the advice? If anyone is to 'blame' (there always has to be blame doesn't there!?!) is it not the motorists who despite being told NOT to panic buy and to be sensible about their fuel purchases just rushed out and went panic buying instead?? No defending the store fuel in a jerry can suggestion but again that's only because people can’t be trusted to store it in a sensible manner.

That takes the biscuit. It's the public's fault.

Well, David Cameron told people to "take every opportunity" to top up.

He didn't say panic buy, but actually, I don't see anyone panicking, just topping up.

It was this advice, followed by Maudes irresponsible Jerry can instruction and the series of subsequent back tracks that have brought us to the position we're in.


I just don't buy the idea that the government saw this vote and thought 'aha lets give muddled advice which we can get kicked over to show we are incompetent but at least it will take the budget off the front page'

I think the government seized on the issue to do just that. They maybe didn't intend for their incompetence to become apparent, but they were happy to bury the budget.


For the record the budget did 'help the rich' via a tax cut over 150k but also moved towards taxing wealth rather than income via the stamp duty move...not to mention the increase in personal allowances that help all tax payers and which is proportionately more significant for lower income earners. There was also the capping of tax deductable allowances which was aimed at reducing the scope for 'the rich' to reduce their tax liabilities…so maybe not entirely the ‘help the rich’ budget you like to suggest it was.

It also removed tax breaks for pensioners. Nice touch.


You are obviously wedded to the idea that a 50p rate which Labour only put in place in the dying days of their long time in office is somehow now a vital piece of equality making legislation, which it never was and never would be (hence why Labour never wanted it in the first place but thought it would be a great wheeze to land the Tories with)....I must have missed the speech where Milliband confirmed in no uncertain terms that he will definitely re-introduce the rate if Labour get into power…..

I'm not "wed" to anything Labour did, does or intends to do.

I'm criticising the actions of this opportunist and ideological government. I'm actually surprised that anyone can defend what they said during this episode.

To be fair, the Tories are only being Tories. It's the Liberals who are the enablers.

[RyeSloan]

He didn't say panic buy, but actually, I don't see anyone panicking, just topping up.


Yet the article you quoted claims there was two days of panic buying....there either was or there wasn't.




I'm not "wed" to anything Labour did, does or intends to do.

I'm criticising the actions of this opportunist and ideological government. I'm actually surprised that anyone can defend what they said during this episode.

To be fair, the Tories are only being Tories. It's the Liberals who are the enablers.

I'm not defending anything the government said during the episode...hence why I said it was a bit muddled.

What I was saying is that your insinuaiton that they gleefully used the potential for a fuel strike and somehow encouraged a woman to burn herself (you suggest people had died because of their politics..not quite sure what people you were talking about) to help bury their budget was nonsense.

[Hibbyradge]

Yet the article you quoted claims there was two days of panic buying....there either was or there wasn't.



The queues at the pumps were due to the government, initially particular David Cameron, encouraging folk to top up. If the media, and you, want to describe that as panic buying, that's fine with me. I understand what it means.




I'm not defending anything the government said during the episode...hence why I said it was a bit muddled.



"A bit muddled"?

Top up your tanks when ever you can. Store fuel in Jerry Cans. Top up when half full. Don't top up. And now...drive slower! :rotflmao:

It couldn't have been less competent.




What I was saying is that your insinuaiton that they gleefully used the potential for a fuel strike ..........to help bury their budget. That's not an insinuation. That's exactly what I'm saying.

They grabbed the opportunity to deflect the damaging debate on the granny tax and the rest of the budget. Little did they know they were jumping out of the frying pan into the fire, to pardon the pun.

The unions have said that there was never a realistic possibility of a strike at Easter because they are committed to talks with the employers and ACAS to resolve the dispute.

There is also the requirement for 7 days notice to be given before any strike.

The government was fully aware of these facts.




somehow encouraged a woman to burn herself (you suggest people had died because of their politics..not quite sure what people you were talking about) to help bury their budget was nonsense.

Whichever way you want to spin is, Francis Maude encouraged people to store fuel in Jerry cans. As a direct result, a woman badly burned herself.

I had initially read that she had died, but fortunately, that was an exaggeration.

Francis Maude pays the price. (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/motoring-news/now-motorists-are-told-to-drive-slower-as-jerrycan-bungle-minister-is-sidelined-7609017.html)

[RyeSloan]

I had initially read that she had died, but fortunately, that was an exaggeration.

Francis Maude pays the price. (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/motoring-news/now-motorists-are-told-to-drive-slower-as-jerrycan-bungle-minister-is-sidelined-7609017.html)

OK so no one died and you have to ask why she was feeling the need to tip petrol from a can with no spout into a jug in her kitchen when she had a cooker on.....sure Maude's advice was bunkum but I dind't hear him suggesting that what ever happened to personal responsibility?

You directly linked this incident to as a plan for the government to take focus off the budget...yet there is no evidence to suggest this incident was even linked to any fuel shortages (barring her daughter being careless enough to run out) no matter Osborne and Maude colluding to create such a tragedy.

You also stated that 'people have died'...which sounds like a plural term to me, who else has died (or not as the case may be)
because Cameron suggested people top/fill up?

Final question is why you feel the government were so desperate to bury news on their own budget...considering it was tinkering at the edges at best was there really any need for them to grab onto anything they could to create a smokescreen to 'bury' a relatively fiscally neutral budget? :devil:

[Hibbyradge]

OK so no one died and you have to ask why she was feeling the need to tip petrol from a can with no spout into a jug in her kitchen when she had a cooker on.....sure Maude's advice was bunkum but I dind't hear him suggesting that what ever happened to personal responsibility?



If Maude hadn't suggested it, idiots like her would not have put themselves at risk. Incredibly, some people still believe, and have faith in, what Tory politicians say.






You directly linked this incident to as a plan for the government to take focus off the budget...



I didn't say it was part of a plan. I insinuated that the government would be pleased that attention was taken off their budget, even if someone had died because of their irresponsible advice.




You also stated that 'people have died'...which sounds like a plural term to me, who else has died (or not as the case may be)
because Cameron suggested people top/fill up?



That's just semantics and nit picking. If she had in fact died as I had thought, "people have died" would have been an accurate staement.




Final question is why you feel the government were so desperate to bury news on their own budget...considering it was tinkering at the edges at best was there really any need for them to grab onto anything they could to create a smokescreen to 'bury' a relatively fiscally neutral budget? :devil:

Because they were getting a kicking over it.

Fiscally neutral it may have been, but it was unpopular. I see pensioners groups are having a go at the government for breaking their promise not to withdraw their tax allowance.

What's a broken promise or two between friends?

[RyeSloan]

If Maude hadn't suggested it, idiots like her would not have put themselves at risk. Incredibly, some people still believe, and have faith in, what Tory politicians say.

Who knows if it would or wouldn’t…but I agree why listen to a politician, people need to learn to look after themselves rather than expect the state to hold their hand for their whole life.



I didn't say it was part of a plan. I insinuated that the government would be pleased that attention was taken off their budget, even if someone had died because of their irresponsible advice.

“People have died because of this Government's politics” was your statement….that sounds like a direct accusation that they killed people to take attention away from their own budget….admit it your statement was inaccurate, over the top and completely unfounded :greengrin



That's just semantics and nit picking. If she had in fact died as I had thought, "people have died" would have been an accurate staement.

Or deliberate hyperbole?




Because they were getting a kicking over it.

But all that stopped when they moved onto the potential fuel strike of course….oh wait a minute no it didn’t, still plenty of commentary to be found on the budget!


Fiscally neutral it may have been, but it was unpopular. I see pensioners groups are having a go at the government for breaking their promise not to withdraw their tax allowance.

But maybe not as unpopular as some may have liked or expected and considering it’s in the middle of their term I doubt the government is too bothered about a slightly negative reaction to some parts of it…

Goodness knows what the reaction would be to a government that was actually brave enough to cut spending to a level the country could actually afford!


What's a broken promise or two between friends?

Dunno you better ask Cleggy boy he’s the master at such things is he not! :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

Who knows if it would or wouldn’t…but I agree why listen to a politician, people need to learn to look after themselves rather than expect the state to hold their hand for their whole life.




“People have died because of this Government's politics” was your statement….that sounds like a direct accusation that they killed people to take attention away from their own budget….admit it your statement was inaccurate, over the top and completely unfounded :greengrin




Or deliberate hyperbole?





But all that stopped when they moved onto the potential fuel strike of course….oh wait a minute no it didn’t, still plenty of commentary to be found on the budget!



But maybe not as unpopular as some may have liked or expected and considering it’s in the middle of their term I doubt the government is too bothered about a slightly negative reaction to some parts of it…

Goodness knows what the reaction would be to a government that was actually brave enough to cut spending to a level the country could actually afford!



Dunno you better ask Cleggy boy he’s the master at such things is he not! :wink:

You're off yer heid!

[RyeSloan]

You're off yer heid!

Too many years watching Hibs has finally driven me over the edge :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

Too many years watching Hibs has finally driven me over the edge :greengrin

I can't quite work out how I've remained so stable and grounded.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I despise the Telegraph and everything it represents. Its inverted morality, its appeal to supercilious self-interest, it's cynicism and lack of humanity. It's whole middle-England I'm alright Jack and there ain't no black in the Union Jack world view arouses my contempt for every narrow-minded representative of misanthropic Britain who buys it.


Dobbers.

[lapsedhibee]

I despise the Telegraph and everything it represents. Its inverted morality, its appeal to supercilious self-interest, it's cynicism and lack of humanity. It's whole middle-England I'm alright Jack and there ain't no black in the Union Jack world view arouses my contempt for every narrow-minded representative of misanthropic Britain who buys it.


Dobbers.

Anyone any idea about the origin of the word "dobbers" as an insult? I've often wondered but been too scared to ask.