Gorgeous George is back

[Pretty Boy]

George Galloway back in the Commons after thumping Labour by over 10 000 votes in the Bradford West by election.

Love him or loathe him it should be entertaining. Also might be good to see an MP who's capable of some form of independent thought rather than doing what he's told by the whips for the sake of his career.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I see the general Labour reaction is to bemoan how stupid the electorate must be. Reminiscent of the elections last year and not really a recipe for success.

[Pretty Boy]

I see the general Labour reaction is to bemoan how stupid the electorate must be. Reminiscent of the elections last year and not really a recipe for success.

Was quite shocked by that.

'It's because he was on Big Brother' was one of the quotes. They'd have been as well just stating they thought the electorate were idiots.

[lucky]

By-elections always give unusual results but this is startling. 75% postal vote though does lead you to question the legitimacy of the result. But clearly the immigrant population of Bradford feel let down by main stream political parties. Labour vote down 20% Tories down 23% and the Lib Dems lost their deposit. So will GG deliver for his constituency? Unlikely as its all about him rather than the people he represents

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

He seems happier talking about his famous Celtic supporting pals than anything else these days.

[hibsbollah]

Amazing result, but a one-off seat that isnt representative of the way the wider country is feeling. Disenchanted muslim voters and the pasty tax.

[Kato]

Amazing result, but a one-off seat that isnt representative of the way the wider country is feeling. Disenchanted muslim voters and the pasty tax.

You don't think the wider country is completely disenchanted with the three main parties?

[Big Ed]

Well: what a punch in the nuts for Ed Milliband! As Gorgeous said himself ""Labour should have won a landslide victory, so voters are not looking for the austerity-lite policies of Ed Miliband and Ed Balls".
Galloway's Respect Party won with a majority of more than 10,000 with a not too shabby 50%+ turnout. Given that the coalition's popularity is dropping like a stone: it is difficult to disagree with Dode's assertion that the voters of Bradford West see New Labour as just another cheek of the same arse.
I am not a fan of Galloway: a grandstanding hypocrite if I ever saw one, however I cannot help but take some comfort in the fact that the candidate, who went to the polls on the kind of policies that Labour should be standing for, thumped the one who stood for a watered down version of the neo-liberal status quo.

[RyeSloan]

Well: what a punch in the nuts for Ed Milliband! As Gorgeous said himself ""Labour should have won a landslide victory, so voters are not looking for the austerity-lite policies of Ed Miliband and Ed Balls".
Galloway's Respect Party won with a majority of more than 10,000 with a not too shabby 50%+ turnout. Given that the coalition's popularity is dropping like a stone: it is difficult to disagree with Dode's assertion that the voters of Bradford West see New Labour as just another cheek of the same arse.
I am not a fan of Galloway: a grandstanding hypocrite if I ever saw one, however I cannot help but take some comfort in the fact that the candidate, who went to the polls on the kind of policies that Labour should be standing for, thumped the one who stood for a watered down version of the neo-liberal status quo.

Dropping like a stone? Where is the evidence of that....the parties poll numbers seem pretty static.

And what are Geroge's policies, apart from being a grandstanding idiot, that are so worth voting for? Nationalisation and a centralised all powerful state?

[Betty Boop]

Needless to say, I'm over the moon ! Well done GG ! :not worth

[Big Ed]

Dropping like a stone? Where is the evidence of that....the parties poll numbers seem pretty static.

And what are Geroge's policies, apart from being a grandstanding idiot, that are so worth voting for? Nationalisation and a centralised all powerful state?

I am basing my poll statistics on this: http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/5085 I confess that I don't really pay too much attention to opinion polls at this point in a period of Government, but my intention was to highlight the fact that Labour appear to have missed an open goal.

I doubt very much if the voters of Bradford West would have backed Galloway if the policies that you narrate were the principal ones. More likely; they liked the sound of his anti-war, anti-austerity rhetoric compared to the mainstream alternative.

[steakbake]

Fair play to him. I think he's a much required agent provocateur, whether you like him or loathe him.

The Westminster Consensus is as cosy as it ever has been. There is very little radicalism and little room for truly divergent policies which might take us down a different path to the relatively pre-determined one the establishment takes us down.

[steakbake]

Amazing result, but a one-off seat that isnt representative of the way the wider country is feeling. Disenchanted muslim voters and the pasty tax.

Are Muslim voters not part of the wider country or are you happy to conceive of them as separate?

Also, I am not sure that Ginsters have a halal range?

[easty]

You don't think the wider country is completely disenchanted with the three main parties?

I certainly am, but wouldnt have considered a vote for GG.

[yeezus.]

This is a man who has supported some brutal regimes, but I can't help but like him.

Labour need to get their act together, I hope Respect leader Salma Yaqoob becomes an MP by the next election.

[Gatecrasher]

i Personally cant stand him

[heretoday]

He'll liven up the House of Commons anyway. And he's probably got more in common with ordinary folk than most of the braying freeloaders.

It's only a matter of time before he puts his foot in it big style but it should be an entertaining ride!

[hibsbollah]

Are Muslim voters not part of the wider country or are you happy to conceive of them as separate?

Also, I am not sure that Ginsters have a halal range?

Galloway targets constituencies with high muslim populations because of his wellknown antiwar anti-israel stance, thats why he went after Oona King in Bethnal Green and Bow a few years back. Unfortunately its a one-off; the 'real' left arent about to start winning by elections across the country.

And the pasty tax has a disproportionate impact in West Bradford because of the high number of hot food takeaways, Nick Robinson was on about it yesterday. All politics is local.

[Big Ed]

Galloway targets constituencies with high muslim populations because of his wellknown antiwar anti-israel stance, thats why he went after Oona King in Bethnal Green and Bow a few years back. Unfortunately its a one-off; the 'real' left arent about to start winning by elections across the country.

And the pasty tax has a disproportionate impact in West Bradford because of the high number of hot food takeaways, Nick Robinson was on about it yesterday. All politics is local.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Galloway's victory will result in a surge of support for the “real” left.
Once again Labour have been left bewildered by a missed opportunity: a result of complacency and lack of distinguishable policy from their opponents.
They need to wake up: simply pointing out coalition gaffes without a clearly defined policy, will result in either them or the Tories getting the nod from the electorate for being perceived as the least worst.
Whether you agree with his politics or not: one of the things that he did achieve, was to generate enough interest locally to ensure a large turnout.
Those last two words are not something I expect to hear, if things continue as they are until 2015.

[marinello59]

I had such high hopes for him when he first came to prominence after winning Glasgow Hillhead, I thought he was going to be a real force for genuine change. Sadly he has acheived the square root of f all to improve the lot of the 'ordinary' people he claims to speak for. A left wing version of Kilroy Silk at best, his own ego and vanity are all that matters. . I am surprised to see this 'principled' politican stood in Bradford when he had blethered enough about returning to Scotland to save us from the dangers of Independence.

[steakbake]

I had such high hopes for him when he first came to prominence after winning Glasgow Hillhead, I thought he was going to be a real force for genuine change. Sadly he has acheived the square root of f all to improve the lot of the 'ordinary' people he claims to speak for. A left wing version of Kilroy Silk at best, his own ego and vanity are all that matters. . I am surprised to see this 'principled' politican stood in Bradford when he had blethered enough about returning to Scotland to save us from the dangers of Independence.

Kilroy Silk - now there's a bawbag and a half.

[RyeSloan]

I am basing my poll statistics on this: http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/5085 I confess that I don't really pay too much attention to opinion polls at this point in a period of Government, but my intention was to highlight the fact that Labour appear to have missed an open goal.

I doubt very much if the voters of Bradford West would have backed Galloway if the policies that you narrate were the principal ones. More likely; they liked the sound of his anti-war, anti-austerity rhetoric compared to the mainstream alternative.

Fair enough...those polls do seem to show Labour bobbing around the 40% mark, the Tories the 35% mark and Lib Dems around the 10%...they are largely unchanged thorugh 2011/2012. If anything I would suggest that Labour should be more concerned about that than the coalition as if the alleged cuts and austerity are not changing peoples voting intentions now then they probably never will.

You are right though Galloway is great at rhetoric and sound bites, none the less I'm amazed so many people are happy for him to represent them.

[steakbake]

When is Miliband's coat going to be on a shoogly peg? He's not a winner.

[Sir David Gray]

Playing up to the Muslim vote once again, I see!

As someone else has already said, he did it a few years ago in Bethnal Green and Bow, which has one of the highest Islamic populations in the country and Bradford's not far behind it in that respect.

His party is committed to the Islamic cause and George Galloway's very outspoken on these sorts of issues as well, so it's hardly a surprise that he's appealed to the overwhelming Muslim vote in this particular area of the country.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Playing up to the Muslim vote once again, I see!

As someone else has already said, he did it a few years ago in Bethnal Green and Bow, which has one of the highest Islamic populations in the country and Bradford's not far behind it in that respect.

His party is committed to the Islamic cause and George Galloway's very outspoken on these sorts of issues as well, so it's hardly a surprise that he's appealed to the overwhelming Muslim vote in this particular area of the country.

You don't win 56% of the vote in a constituency with a minority Muslim population by just appealing to Muslims.

[steakbake]

Playing up to the Muslim vote once again, I see!

As someone else has already said, he did it a few years ago in Bethnal Green and Bow, which has one of the highest Islamic populations in the country and Bradford's not far behind it in that respect.

His party is committed to the Islamic cause and George Galloway's very outspoken on these sorts of issues as well, so it's hardly a surprise that he's appealed to the overwhelming Muslim vote in this particular area of the country.

I'm interested to know what you think is the "Islamic cause"?

[Pete]

You don't win 56% of the vote in a constituency with a minority Muslim population by just appealing to Muslims.

It's a minority muslim population but it's high compared to most of the UK and has a large ethnic minority population. "Muslim friendly" policies along with messages about how mainstream parties are failing a community that is feeling the cuts big time have worked.

[bingo70]

I'm probably talking pish here as I don't know much about politics but I'd have thought these local bi-elections aren't won on policies but based on who people think will stand up for them most and whether your muslam, catholic, Jewish or whatever o get the impression he'd probably do that quite well

[Betty Boop]

Playing up to the Muslim vote once again, I see!

As someone else has already said, he did it a few years ago in Bethnal Green and Bow, which has one of the highest Islamic populations in the country and Bradford's not far behind it in that respect.

His party is committed to the Islamic cause and George Galloway's very outspoken on these sorts of issues as well, so it's hardly a surprise that he's appealed to the overwhelming Muslim vote in this particular area of the country.


The Muslim population of Bradford West could of course have voted for the Labour candidate, Imran Hussain who is a Pakistani Muslim. Like him or not GG ran a brilliant campaign, he won 55% of the vote in which Muslims make up 25% of the population of the constituency, so he must have won a significant number of votes from other races and religions. Maybe the voters of Bradford West chose to vote for a candidate who will not be standard lobby fodder ?

[marinello59]

The Muslim population of Bradford West could of course have voted for the Labour candidate, Imran Hussain who is a Pakistani Muslim. Like him or not GG ran a brilliant campaign, he won 55% of the vote in which Muslims make up 25% of the population of the constituency, so he must have won a significant number of votes from other races and religions. Maybe the voters of Bradford West chose to voteN for a candidate who will not be standard lobby fodder ?

What has he ever actually managed to achieve that has improved conditions for the 'ordinary' voters he is so in touch with?

[Hiber-nation]

When is Miliband's coat going to be on a shoogly peg? He's not a winner.

As a Scotsman columnist said yesterday, the man/woman in the street will probably see him as someone who's landed from Mars. No matter how bright you are, no matter what your policies are, you need voter appeal and poor old Ed will never have that.

As for Galloway, maybe the Bradford public are saying that they'd rather vote for an egotistical twat than any of the major parties.

[Hibbyradge]

8020

[blackpoolhibs]

Love him or loath him, nobody can deny he is a fantastic speaker. You may disagree with his politics, but he certainly comes across as if he believes what he's saying 100%.

I cant put my finger on it,and he does target certain minority voters, but he's a character, and in the day of character politicians, he will always get his fair share of votes.

[Eyrie]

The Muslim population of Bradford West could of course have voted for the Labour candidate, Imran Hussain who is a Pakistani Muslim. Like him or not GG ran a brilliant campaign, he won 55% of the vote in which Muslims make up 25% of the population of the constituency, so he must have won a significant number of votes from other races and religions. Maybe the voters of Bradford West chose to vote for a candidate who will not be standard lobby fodder ?

He got 55% of a 50% turnout, which is 27.5% of the electorate. As regards his campaign, he clearly targetted what he needed for victory which was disenchantment with the major parties and maximising the turnout amongst those voters most likely to agree with his attacks on British givernment policy overseas.

Hard to see his win as anything other than a clear rejection of the Labour party. Miliband is in deep trouble if they lose Glasgow to the SNP and Boris holds London.

[PeeJay]

Love him or loath him, nobody can deny he is a fantastic speaker. You may disagree with his politics, but he certainly comes across as if he believes what he's saying 100%.

I cant put my finger on it,and he does target certain minority voters, but he's a character, and in the day of character politicians, he will always get his fair share of votes.

Fair points - but isn't he simply in the position of being able to say and do what he likes because - ultimately - he knows he will never hold high office and never have to actually practise any realpolitik?

In light of that, it's easy mouthing off - and he is a gifted orator, but ... he's seriously misguided in much of what he says and the company he keeps - and BTW why does he go under the moniker of Gorgeous George .... :confused:

[Big Ed]

Fair points - but isn't he simply in the position of being able to say and do what he likes because - ultimately - he knows he will never hold high office and never have to actually practise any realpolitik?

In light of that, it's easy mouthing off - and he is a gifted orator, but ... he's seriously misguided in much of what he says and the company he keeps - and BTW why does he go under the moniker of Gorgeous George .... :confused:

As I have stated previously; I think he is a grandstanding hypocrite, but in the sanitised political world of pre-prepared soundbites from spin doctors, spewed out by on message lap dogs, it is not difficult to imagine why the voters of Bradford West chose to elect someone saying something different.
IMO the mistake that mainstream politicians, and commentators, make is to write off people like Galloway as some sort of deluded fanatic, rather than to challenge him on his views. If that were to happen: then we might stop having deluded fanatics winning by elections with majorities of 10,000.

[blackpoolhibs]

Fair points - but isn't he simply in the position of being able to say and do what he likes because - ultimately - he knows he will never hold high office and never have to actually practise any realpolitik?

In light of that, it's easy mouthing off - and he is a gifted orator, but ... he's seriously misguided in much of what he says and the company he keeps - and BTW why does he go under the moniker of Gorgeous George .... :confused:

Yip i think you are right, he can virtually say what he wants, he will never get any job in office even in the labour party. :agree:

I often find myself listening to a talk show he has in the evening on talksport, and yes he does have some ridiculous views on certain things, but not all his views are bad, and as you say he does put every argument or point he has in a good way, even if you agree or disagree with him.

as for Gorgeous George, no idea? :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

He'll liven up the House of Commons anyway. And he's probably got more in common with ordinary folk than most of the braying freeloaders.

It's only a matter of time before he puts his foot in it big style but it should be an entertaining ride!

Is this right? IIRC he was a bit circumspect with his dealings at a Labour Club in Dundee when he was younger.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I'm glad George Galloway won, mainly because he's a change from the norm, which is becoming increasing predictable. I’d rather have someone who’ll mix things up and the fact that he’s a bit of an arse doesn’t change the validity of some of his comments.

I was watching Question Time on Thursday night and the lying and hypocrisy around the party funding argument was embarrassing. Douglas Alexander trying to take the moral high ground was particularly cringeworthy and I’m glad Dimbleby pulled him up on it. If George Galloway was on that program he would have had a field day and, despite probably adding to some of the hypocrisy, it'd have been better entertainment and he would have said exactly what we (well, me but I imagine a few others) were thinking.

The fact that he was elected just goes to show the general apathy and lack of respect for politicians in this country.

[Betty Boop]

The pre-election debate. :greengrin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okKxC4ZNIqw

[Hibbyradge]

‎"Galloway accused the three main parties of ‘living in a fantasy world’, then stuck one leg out and started licking his bottom."

[yeezus.]

Good to see a real left-winger in parliament.:thumbsup:

[Kato]

Good to see a real left-winger in parliament.:thumbsup:

What does "Left-Winger" mean these days?


I certainly am, but wouldnt have considered a vote for GG.

Well it's a chance for protest vote and to put a spanner (GG is a spanner) in the Westminster works, but I do see your point. The "shall I be the cat" deal was deeply disturbing".

[khib70]

Good to see a real left-winger in parliament.:thumbsup:

It's very insulting to the many real left wingers on here that you equate "real left winger" with "pompous, arrogant, self-regarding, cynical opportunist tool".

Read the election address posted above "I, George Galloway........." :jamboak: Sums him up perfectly in his own words

[Betty Boop]

It's very insulting to the many real left wingers on here that you equate "real left winger" with "pompous, arrogant, self-regarding, cynical opportunist tool".

Read the election address posted above "I, George Galloway........." :jamboak: Sums him up perfectly in his own words

I knew you would be chuffed to see him back ! :greengrin

[yeezus.]

Galloway was elected in Glasgow area's that were predominantly white.

Labour need to get their act together, they got a deserved thumping in Scotland in 2011 and now Bradford. I expect they will make some gains in the English council elections, but the SNP will make gains in Scotland.

Apparently George and Salma's Respect party are going to field more candidates now.

[yeezus.]

What does "Left-Winger" mean these days?



Well it's a chance for protest vote and to put a spanner (GG is a spanner) in the Westminster works, but I do see your point. The "shall I be the cat" deal was deeply disturbing".

Well a left-winger is surely someone like Galloway or Tony Benn ... there aren't many left and Labour seem to have settled on the right.

[lyonhibs]

Well a left-winger is surely someone like Galloway or Tony Benn ... there aren't many left and Labour seem to have settled on the right.

Please, please, please, PLEASE tell me you don't consider Tony Benn and George Galloway to be of similar standing in British politics.

Oh ye Gods........................:shocked:

[Kato]

Well a left-winger is surely someone like Galloway or Tony Benn ... there aren't many left and Labour seem to have settled on the right.

Sorry but that doesn't explain what a "left-winger" is, just saying "someone like".

You might as well say "someone like Chairman Mao" or "someone like Joe Strummer" - two of the least "left-wing" people who ever breathed.

What are left wing policies these days?

What do left-wingers hope to achieve for the electorate.

I'm no "right-winger" btw, just curious as to what these terms refer to in the 21stCentury.

[yeezus.]

It's very insulting to the many real left wingers on here that you equate "real left winger" with "pompous, arrogant, self-regarding, cynical opportunist tool".

Read the election address posted above "I, George Galloway........." :jamboak: Sums him up perfectly in his own words

I was comparing him to the right wing drivel we have in parliament at the moment - on the opposition bench as well!

[yeezus.]

Sorry but that doesn't explain what a "left-winger" is, just saying "someone like".

You might as well say "someone like Chairman Mao" or "someone like Joe Strummer" - two of the least "left-wing" people who ever breathed.

What are left wing policies these days?

What do left-wingers hope to achieve for the electorate.

I'm no "right-winger" btw, just curious as to what these terms refer to in the 21stCentury.

What planet are you on? If you don't know anything about left wing politics then go and read up on it.

Support of the Palestinian cause, opposition to both wars in the middle east, support for trade union workers, opposition to public spending cuts and privatization are just a few.

[hibsbollah]

What planet are you on? If you don't know anything about left wing politics then go and read up on it.

Support of the Palestinian cause, opposition to both wars in the middle east, support for trade union workers, opposition to public spending cuts and privatization are just a few.

Whoa there Dobbin! Some popular misconceptions there; its perfectly consistent to be a left winger and support Israels right to exist in the region (the original zionist project was a radical left wing-led movement to create a new society), and by extension see the Hamas/Hezbollah/Syrian axis as far more 'right' wing than anything in Israeli society.

and similarly there are plenty of those on the left that supported intervention in the Middle East (Ann Clwyd MP is in many respects one of the most genuine lefties out there, campaigned against Saddams regime for years prior to the invasion and believed that he was an odious fascist who needed to be removed. The Spanish Civil War, the wartime resistance movements in Europe are examples of a proud legacy of the Left intervening militarily to overthrow dictators.

There's an argument that the left-right paradigm is almost irrelevant because the concepts are rooted in the 20th century and since then a lot of the ideological battles have largely been fought and won already. (some by the left, some by the right). I don't buy it, as it happens, but its a worthwhile debate.

The Benn-Galloway comparison...Hero vs zero..don't get me started :greengrin

[yeezus.]

Whoa there Dobbin! Some popular misconceptions there; its perfectly consistent to be a left winger and support Israels right to exist in the region (the original zionist project was a radical left wing-led movement to create a new society), and by extension see the Hamas/Hezbollah/Syrian axis as far more 'right' wing than anything in Israeli society.

and similarly there are plenty of those on the left that supported intervention in the Middle East (Ann Clwyd MP is in many respects one of the most genuine lefties out there, campaigned against Saddams regime for years prior to the invasion and believed that he was an odious fascist who needed to be removed. The Spanish Civil War, the wartime resistance movements in Europe are examples of a proud legacy of the Left intervening militarily to overthrow dictators.

There's an argument that the left-right paradigm is almost irrelevant because the concepts are rooted in the 20th century and since then a lot of the ideological battles have largely been fought and won already. (some by the left, some by the right). I don't buy it, as it happens, but its a worthwhile debate.

The Benn-Galloway comparison...Hero vs zero..don't get me started :greengrin

Most left wingers are supportive of the case for a Palestinian state, there's a huge support on the right for Israel and most conservatives think up some excuses for Israel's war crimes.

No genuine left winger supports the Iraq war - nobody denies that Saddam was committing horrific war crimes - but that wasn't the reason we intervened.
As much as I admired Christopher Hitchens, his stance on Iraq was with the neo-conservatives who couldn't accept that a million dead people was a military failure.

[yeezus.]

Call supporting Israel and British army war crimes in the middle east what you will but it is NOT left wing to do so.

[marinello59]

Call supporting Israel and British army war crimes in the middle east what you will but it is NOT left wing to do so.

:confused:

[Hibs Class]

:confused:

x 2

[Eyrie]

Most left wingers are supportive of the case for a Palestinian state, there's a huge support on the right for Israel and most conservatives think up some excuses for Israel's war crimes.
And most of the people who meet your definition of "left wing" attempt to justify (or at best refuse to condemn) the Hamas/Hezbollah attacks on Israel.

The truth of the matter is that both sides are in the wrong when they use violence.

[Kato]

What planet are you on? If you don't know anything about left wing politics then go and read up on it.

Support of the Palestinian cause, opposition to both wars in the middle east, support for trade union workers, opposition to public spending cuts and privatization are just a few.

The same planet as you, I think.

I do know a bit about left wing politics but it was a rhetorical question asked as you so readily equated Fog-Horn Leg-Horn Galloway with them.

I always thought left wing politics sought some kind of radical route to a fairer society. That's what was discussed in my youth when these matters arose but things changed massively in the 80's when left wing politics took a tangent and seemed to be aimed less at the people of this country and more toward airy fairy aims targeted at people abroad - bourne out by your description apparently.

You didn't even bother to answer What do left-wingers hope to achieve for the electorate? No mention of the underclass in this country, no mention of the lack of hope for youth.

I think it'll be a hoot to hear Galloway take the mediocre clowns apart who pass for politicians in this country once he enters Westminster, but only as a sideshow.

I find the "Left" bankrupt when it comes to radical thought as to how to take this country forward. In fact the "Left" are probably the most conservative grouping in politics today without even realising it as they are so entrenched in 80's rhetoric and are too busy earning right-on Brownie badges by paying lip-service to being "Anti-War" in the Middle-East (which really amounts to doing f-all.)

The trade unions financed the people who took us to war in the middle east btw, they continued to do so throughout that war and continue to do so today.

[yeezus.]

The same planet as you, I think.

I do know a bit about left wing politics but it was a rhetorical question asked as you so readily equated Fog-Horn Leg-Horn Galloway with them.

I always thought left wing politics sought some kind of radical route to a fairer society. That's what was discussed in my youth when these matters arose but things changed massively in the 80's when left wing politics took a tangent and seemed to be aimed less at the people of this country and more toward airy fairy aims targeted at people abroad - bourne out by your description apparently.

You didn't even bother to answer What do left-wingers hope to achieve for the electorate? No mention of the underclass in this country, no mention of the lack of hope for youth.

I think it'll be a hoot to hear Galloway take the mediocre clowns apart who pass for politicians in this country once he enters Westminster, but only as a sideshow.

I find the "Left" bankrupt when it comes to radical thought as to how to take this country forward. In fact the "Left" are probably the most conservative grouping in politics today without even realising it as they are so entrenched in 80's rhetoric and are too busy earning right-on Brownie badges by paying lip-service to being "Anti-War" in the Middle-East (which really amounts to doing f-all.)

The trade unions financed the people who took us to war in the middle east btw, they continued to do so throughout that war and continue to do so today.

Well I didn't think I'd have to spell out manifesto pledges of the left to you. Maybe you could go and read up on the SSP or Scottish Greens.

It's parties on the left that are trying to mount some sort of rebellion to the public spending cuts - who are being aimed at people who did not cause the crisis. Galloway's win has something to do with the public's dissatisfaction with the coalition's policies - and Labour in opposition aren't much better.

You may not think 100,000 dead Iraqi civilians is worth shouting about but I do. As for the trade unions, why they continued to fund the red Tories I don't know, Labour seem to oppose most strikes now.

[marinello59]

Well I didn't think I'd have to spell out manifesto pledges of the left to you. Maybe you could go and read up on the SSP or Scottish Greens.

It's parties on the left that are trying to mount some sort of rebellion to the public spending cuts - who are being aimed at people who did not cause the crisis. Galloway's win has something to do with the public's dissatisfaction with the coalition's policies - and Labour in opposition aren't much better.

You may not think 100,000 dead Iraqi civilians is worth shouting about but I do. As for the trade unions, why they continued to fund the red Tories I don't know, Labour seem to oppose most strikes now.

I don't agree with everything in Kato's post but his damning of what the left in this country has become is not far off the mark. Perhaps you should address the points he has raised rather than proving them.

[yeezus.]

I don't agree with everything in Kato's post but his damning of what the left in this country has become is not far off the mark. Perhaps you should address the points he has raised rather than proving them.

I didn't expect to have to explain to people left wing policies. Asking for a definition of "left wing" is really diverting from the issues.

As I have mentioned, the left are mounting opposition to unnecessary public spending cuts and opposing the tuition fees increase in England. Bradford west proves that the left are electable.

The Scottish left's popularity is rising - and I'd love to meet these so called lefties who support the Israeli occupation.

[marinello59]

I didn't expect to have to explain to people left wing policies. Asking for a definition of "left wing" is really diverting from the issues.

As I have mentioned, the left are mounting opposition to unnecessary public spending cuts and opposing the tuition fees increase in England. Bradford west proves that the left are electable.

The Scottish left's popularity is rising - and I'd love to meet these so called lefties who support the Israeli occupation.

You don't have to explain left wing policies to me. I spent far to many hours in my younger days listening to earnest young Trots explain how we would make the world a better place.

[ballengeich]

I didn't expect to have to explain to people left wing policies. Asking for a definition of "left wing" is really diverting from the issues.

As I have mentioned, the left are mounting opposition to unnecessary public spending cuts and opposing the tuition fees increase in England. Bradford west proves that the left are electable.

The Scottish left's popularity is rising - and I'd love to meet these so called lefties who support the Israeli occupation.

The anti-cuts movement fails to provide a coherent and comprehensive economic policy which would allow current spending levels to continue.

The anti-Israel movement fails to provide a coherent and comprehensive peace policy which would allow all the people in the Middle East to live securely.

The type of left you're talking about is a movement which when confronted by a complex problem disregards any facts which do not fit its preconceptions. For anyone genuinely trying to advance left of centre views and policies it's an irrelevance at best and the right's best friend most of the time.

[hibsbollah]

I didn't expect to have to explain to people left wing policies. Asking for a definition of "left wing" is really diverting from the issues.

As I have mentioned, the left are mounting opposition to unnecessary public spending cuts and opposing the tuition fees increase in England. Bradford west proves that the left are electable.

The Scottish left's popularity is rising - and I'd love to meet these so called lefties who support the Israeli occupation.

WHY wouldn't you expect to provide a critique of what it means to be left-wing on a thread about Galloways win? 'Diverting from the issues'? really? Surely its about defining what you stand for.

The 'Scottish Left' as exemplified by the Sheridan shambles, consists of a multi-party, peoples front of Judea farce which spends more time bickering and infighting than anything else. In the current economic disasterzone you'd expect an organised political left to have made significant inroads by now, Bradford West notwithstanding. It hasn't happened. What evidence do you have that the Scottish left's popularity is 'rising' to any significant degree?

[One Day Soon]

Marinello, Ballengeich and Hibsbollah - you are all spot on.

Tired Trot cliches are just toxic to any meaningful left movement. The diversionary mix of deliberate and indulgent self-fantasism crossed with the energetic triumph of wishful thinking over reality gifted Thatcher's Tories years in office and broke community after community.

I found the link to the letter in Galloway's name earlier in the thread fascinating. I lost count of his references to God and God's will. If it was genuinely from his campaign - there didn't appear to be an imprint on the publication so it is difficult to tell - it raises all sorts of questions.

The election of Galloway will change precisely nothing in British or Scottish politics. He has no influence, nothing meaningful to contribute on any issue, no agenda and his political party is about as relevant as UKIP. Still, from saluting the 'indefatigability' of Saddam Hussain to his face on television (Hussain being a murdering, torturing, fascist - literally - dictator remember) through to offering to 'be the cat' in a lycra leotard on celebrity Big Brother, no-one can question Galloway's impeccable judgement. Can they?

As for Ed Miliband, the taxi is long, long overdue.

[RyeSloan]

I didn't expect to have to explain to people left wing policies. Asking for a definition of "left wing" is really diverting from the issues.

As I have mentioned, the left are mounting opposition to unnecessary public spending cuts and opposing the tuition fees increase in England. Bradford west proves that the left are electable.

The Scottish left's popularity is rising - and I'd love to meet these so called lefties who support the Israeli occupation.

It is you that stated that there "wasnt many [left wingers] left" so I think it's a fair question to ask what you mean by left wing and by extension who would be included in the few that are left.

You state "the left are mounting opposition to unnecessary public spending cuts"...who and what are these left wing groups that are mounting this opposition..where are they mounting this operation, what does it look like and what are their arguments?

"unnecessary public spending cuts" - Your opinion or those of the so far undefined left? Not going to go too far into the figures but when you consider the public borrowing requirement for 2012 alone is about £120bn when would you consider public spending cuts to be necessary?

"The Scottish left's popularity is rising" - Really? On what metrics?

And defining political position by opposition or not to the "Israeli occupation" seem a somewhat narrow and arribtary definition would you not...so if someone believed in substantial social change, full nationalisation and even more wealth re-distribution than happens now through the taxation, tax credit and welfare systems but happened to have no clear position on Israel (a complicated and emotional issue somewhat removed from UK political and social issues) they would only be a "so called leftie"?

[RyeSloan]

The election of Galloway will change precisely nothing in British or Scottish politics. He has no influence, nothing meaningful to contribute on any issue, no agenda and his political party is about as relevant as UKIP. Still, from saluting the 'indefatigability' of Saddam Hussain to his face on television (Hussain being a murdering, torturing, fascist - literally - dictator remember) through to offering to 'be the cat' in a lycra leotard on celebrity Big Brother, no-one can question Galloway's impeccable judgement. Can they?

As for Ed Miliband, the taxi is long, long overdue.

Not to mention his recent outing on Newsnight where he defended Argentina's claim to the Malvinas (he refused to use the words Falkland islands) and then supported this position by saying the UK will be forced to listen to the whole of South America because essentially South America was the most progressive, stable, corruption free continent in the world that was working together super effectively to make everyone's life so much better...in essence his argument was based on a total fabrication of reality to suit his love for being 'alternative' and of course the lime light that brings.

As for Ed Miliband, the taxi should have been ordered as soon as he was announced as the winner of the leadership contest. Nothing short of a waste of space. Incapable of putting across any argument in a cohesive and understandable way (even George can do that, albeit with fabrication and half truths). Presentation awful. Stature pathetic.

[yeezus.]

WHY wouldn't you expect to provide a critique of what it means to be left-wing on a thread about Galloways win? 'Diverting from the issues'? really? Surely its about defining what you stand for.

The 'Scottish Left' as exemplified by the Sheridan shambles, consists of a multi-party, peoples front of Judea farce which spends more time bickering and infighting than anything else. In the current economic disasterzone you'd expect an organised political left to have made significant inroads by now, Bradford West notwithstanding. It hasn't happened. What evidence do you have that the Scottish left's popularity is 'rising' to any significant degree?

I was assuming you all had a fair idea. Maybe not.

The SNP the centre left party in Scottish politics.

England isn't a progressive country like Scotland. The rise of the SNP has proven that the majority of Scots are left wing. There certainly was an issue with the far left because the SSP stand for a socialist republic of Scotland - the communist party are under the illusion that we are stronger as a union.

When I said "real left-winger" I wasn't suggesting that those who disagree with Galloway aren't really left wing. I was making the comparison between him and the predominately right wing MP's in Parliament at the moment.

[Big Ed]

The anti-cuts movement fails to provide a coherent and comprehensive economic policy which would allow current spending levels to continue.

The anti-Israel movement fails to provide a coherent and comprehensive peace policy which would allow all the people in the Middle East to live securely.

The type of left you're talking about is a movement which when confronted by a complex problem disregards any facts which do not fit its preconceptions. For anyone genuinely trying to advance left of centre views and policies it's an irrelevance at best and the right's best friend most of the time.

You refer to the Anti Cuts Movement, but I am not sure what you mean by that specifically. Anyone who values social justice rather than (flawed) economic logic, may have found a home with the Labour or Liberal parties in the past: no longer. The only refuge appears to be the Unions or within the parameters of a pressure group.
In these austere times; people are restless for political change. I believe that the result in Bradford West was an indication of that; however, Respect are not going to form the next Government.
It is easy to kick the Left for their incessant in-fighting, but where else is the challenge to the dogmatic economic principles that result in rising unemployment and the slashing of public services?
Not from Ed ****ing Balls.
We may just have to be patient and wait for George Osbourne's strategy of the private sector picking up the hundreds of thousands of redundant public sector workers or for those who have benefited from the cut in the highest rates of Income Tax, to stimulate the jobs market with their newly increased wealth.
I advise you not to hold your breath.

[marinello59]

I was assuming you all had a fair idea. Maybe not.

The SNP the centre left party in Scottish politics.

England isn't a progressive country like Scotland. The rise of the SNP has proven that the majority of Scots are left wing. There certainly was an issue with the far left because the SSP stand for a socialist republic of Scotland - the communist party are under the illusion that we are stronger as a union.

When I said "real left-winger" I wasn't suggesting that those who disagree with Galloway aren't really left wing. I was making the comparison between him and the predominately right wing MP's in Parliament at the moment.

Dearie me.
The rise of the SNP has proven that the majority of Scots are left wing. :faf:

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I was assuming you all had a fair idea. Maybe not.

The SNP the centre left party in Scottish politics.

England isn't a progressive country like Scotland. The rise of the SNP has proven that the majority of Scots are left wing. There certainly was an issue with the far left because the SSP stand for a socialist republic of Scotland - the communist party are under the illusion that we are stronger as a union.

When I said "real left-winger" I wasn't suggesting that those who disagree with Galloway aren't really left wing. I was making the comparison between him and the predominately right wing MP's in Parliament at the moment.

There may be some truth in that statement but, IMO, the rise of SNP is due to a combinatuion of 1) the numerous failures of the previous Labour government, 2) SNP will take everything they can from Westminster and not just do what they're told, 3) Alex Salmond is far more charismatic than any other party leader in Scotland and 4) people are pissed off with politicians in general and want a change and the Liberal Democrats showed that they can't be trusted after lying about tuition fees.

btw - I'm generally more to the right but was against the Iraq war, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The left/right divide isn't as clear as it used to be.

[Big Ed]

There may be some truth in that statement but, IMO, the rise of SNP is due to a combinatuion of 1) the numerous failures of the previous Labour government, 2) SNP will take everything they can from Westminster and not just do what they're told, 3) Alex Salmond is far more charismatic than any other party leader in Scotland and 4) people are pissed off with politicians in general and want a change and the Liberal Democrats showed that they can't be trusted after lying about tuition fees.

btw - I'm generally more to the right but was against the Iraq war, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The left/right divide isn't as clear as it used to be.

I pretty much agree with your analysis of the rise of the SNP. I think it represents the Scottish public's disillusionment with the politics of the three national parties. I certainly don't think that everyone who voted for the SNP is pining for a seperate Scottish state.
I am not sure if this shows a maturity of the Scottish voting public: on the one hand, it is good that they appear to have thrown off tribal loyalties, but on the other hand, I doubt the SNP would do so well without Salmond at the helm.

[Hibs Class]

I pretty much agree with your analysis of the rise of the SNP. I think it represents the Scottish public's disillusionment with the politics of the three national parties. I certainly don't think that everyone who voted for the SNP is pining for a seperate Scottish state.
I am not sure if this shows a maturity of the Scottish voting public: on the one hand, it is good that they appear to have thrown off tribal loyalties, but on the other hand, I doubt the SNP would do so well without Salmond at the helm.

Very true. Salmond has been their leader for all bar 4 of the last 22 years, and in the period under Swinney just after the turn of the century they generally appeared rudderless. It would be foolish to assume that they couldn't find an able replacement for Salmond, but looking at their senior team now the likes of Sturgeon, Swinney, Russell, MacAskill would IMO all struggle in the role and take them backwards.

[Kato]

I honestly do not understand the obsession “the left” has with Israel/Palestine. I agree that the Israeli’s act abominably towards the Palestinians but it seems to me that “the left” give a bit too much attention to that area of the world than is comprehendable when there are war zones elsewhere in which people are suffering. Maybe it’s a hang-over from the old communist party dabblings in Anti-Zionism/Semitism.

http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/features-april-12-how-the-left-turned-against-the-jews-nick-cohen-anti-semitism-israel-islamism

Whatever it is it seems it’s something, along with the Iraq War (which I was against) to “shout about”. Not something to do something about. As someone else mentioned during the Spanish Civil War supporters of the Left Wing had the balls to go out there and fight for what they believed in, not hide behind blow-hards like GeorgeG. Maybe the (unconscious) thought that they’d be fighting alongside theological zealots and all sorts of Anti-Semitic quasi-fascist nut-jobs makes it seem unromantic. Or maybe shouting is the preferred weapon.

What it does amount to is a diversion away from the problems that beset this country many of which are a hang-over from Thatcherism, an odious creed given life by the left’s inability to unite and find some real-politik agenda to combat it. Too busy infighting and brandishing minutes of meetings about “rights”, fox-hunting and “equalities” to fight the actual issues; Jobs, Communities, Crime (both street and corporate) etc. Meanwhile huge swathes of the country are abandoned with high percentages of unemployment, a process started by Thatcher and nurtured by Blair. Abdicating responsibility for those people by throwing “benefits” at them (I don’t know who benefits from the benefits) makes a breeding ground for the BNP/EDL et al. Seems to me the “left wing” aren’t interested on the problems right on their own doorstep.

The Trade Unions meanwhile fund a party that would continue to spend money the country just doesn’t have, all on the matter of principle. I don’t agree with the Tory cuts but only because they aren’t targeted properly. The civil service and government employers in this country are all admin heavy, instead of seeing that and imposing some kind of cull getting rid of those who merely push pens they put the admin in charge of implementing the cuts – which means the admin side grows even larger. Madness. There needs to be cuts but the “left wing” seems to think that money grows on trees and has no idea on how to grow an economy but simply sees it as the Governments’ job to give people jobs.

The longer the country goes without producing it’s way out of debt the worse things will get, that’s the reality. We don't make enough things that people abroad want to buy. The Tories have little idea how to grow a real economy as they are stuck with the idea that Conservatism = Thatcherism while the “left-wing” seem to me not to even be bothered about the economy.

No wonder GG won, just by being not one of that lot.

[Dashing Bob S]

I honestly do not understand the obsession “the left” has with Israel/Palestine. I agree that the Israeli’s act abominably towards the Palestinians but it seems to me that “the left” give a bit too much attention to that area of the world than is comprehendable when there are war zones elsewhere in which people are suffering. Maybe it’s a hang-over from the old communist party dabblings in Anti-Zionism/Semitism.

http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/features-april-12-how-the-left-turned-against-the-jews-nick-cohen-anti-semitism-israel-islamism

Whatever it is it seems it’s something, along with the Iraq War (which I was against) to “shout about”. Not something to do something about. As someone else mentioned during the Spanish Civil War supporters of the Left Wing had the balls to go out there and fight for what they believed in, not hide behind blow-hards like GeorgeG. Maybe the (unconscious) thought that they’d be fighting alongside theological zealots and all sorts of Anti-Semitic quasi-fascist nut-jobs makes it seem unromantic. Or maybe shouting is the preferred weapon.

What it does amount to is a diversion away from the problems that beset this country many of which are a hang-over from Thatcherism, an odious creed given life by the left’s inability to unite and find some real-politik agenda to combat it. Too busy infighting and brandishing minutes of meetings about “rights”, fox-hunting and “equalities” to fight the actual issues; Jobs, Communities, Crime (both street and corporate) etc. Meanwhile huge swathes of the country are abandoned with high percentages of unemployment, a process started by Thatcher and nurtured by Blair. Abdicating responsibility for those people by throwing “benefits” at them (I don’t know who benefits from the benefits) makes a breeding ground for the BNP/EDL et al. Seems to me the “left wing” aren’t interested on the problems right on their own doorstep.

The Trade Unions meanwhile fund a party that would continue to spend money the country just doesn’t have, all on the matter of principle. I don’t agree with the Tory cuts but only because they aren’t targeted properly. The civil service and government employers in this country are all admin heavy, instead of seeing that and imposing some kind of cull getting rid of those who merely push pens they put the admin in charge of implementing the cuts – which means the admin side grows even larger. Madness. There needs to be cuts but the “left wing” seems to think that money grows on trees and has no idea on how to grow an economy but simply sees it as the Governments’ job to give people jobs.

The longer the country goes without producing it’s way out of debt the worse things will get, that’s the reality. We don't make enough things that people abroad want to buy. The Tories have little idea how to grow a real economy as they are stuck with the idea that Conservatism = Thatcherism while the “left-wing” seem to me not to even be bothered about the economy.

No wonder GG won, just by being not one of that lot.


Wonderful post, agree wholeheartedly. :top marks The 'left' on this country has been hijacked by sneering, middle-class, controlling whingers, as obnoxious and divorced from the communities they purport to represent as the traditional right. In fact it doesn't really exist in the UK any more, and Labour could join the Con-Dem coalition and nobody would notice the difference. They deserve to be wiped out in England, as they are being in Scotland. The only problem is that the beneficiaries will be the GG's and BNP's of this world.

[RyeSloan]

The longer the country goes without producing it’s way out of debt the worse things will get, that’s the reality. We don't make enough things that people abroad want to buy. The Tories have little idea how to grow a real economy as they are stuck with the idea that Conservatism = Thatcherism while the “left-wing” seem to me not to even be bothered about the economy.

No wonder GG won, just by being not one of that lot.

Agree and disagree.

Disagree: We don't have to 'make things' (although believe it or not we are still about 6th biggest manufacturer in the world) to have a successful economy...not everything has to be physical to make a profit and the UK is actually very good at intangible exporting. I suggest we should be focussing on our strengths rather than pining for our industrial revolution past that is exactly that, in the past.

Agree: The main political parties are far too similar and far too bereft of ideas and scared of implementing real change. The coalition’s effort to reform the NHS are a perfect example…(it doesn’t matter if you agree with them or not) the minute there was dissent there was retreat and compromise followed by retreat and compromise to the point that the main thrust of reform was lost and the parts that were left make little sense in isolation. This is repeated far too often….oh for a party that lay out a radical but thoughtful position (be that left, right, centre, up or down!) and stick to their guns because they believe in their approach. OK this is probably too much to ask for but at least some movement towards such a scenario would be useful!

The desperation to try and keep everyone happy is leading to the inevitable result of leaving no one happy and sadly we are in a position where there are too many vested interests having too much influence, the result is a pedestrian rate of change and a patchy muddled approach.

Italy is a good (if somewhat extreme) example of this..it took a technocrat leader to sweep away the vested interests to even start enacting the change that was clearly required…his window of opportunity is already closing and the vested interests are re-grouping but to me it was very interesting what he managed to do in 100 days or so compared to what the politicos had managed in 10 years.

[hibsbollah]

I honestly do not understand the obsession “the left” has with Israel/Palestine. I agree that the Israeli’s act abominably towards the Palestinians but it seems to me that “the left” give a bit too much attention to that area of the world than is comprehendable when there are war zones elsewhere in which people are suffering. Maybe it’s a hang-over from the old communist party dabblings in Anti-Zionism/Semitism.

http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/features-april-12-how-the-left-turned-against-the-jews-nick-cohen-anti-semitism-israel-islamism

Whatever it is it seems it’s something, along with the Iraq War (which I was against) to “shout about”. Not something to do something about. As someone else mentioned during the Spanish Civil War supporters of the Left Wing had the balls to go out there and fight for what they believed in, not hide behind blow-hards like GeorgeG. Maybe the (unconscious) thought that they’d be fighting alongside theological zealots and all sorts of Anti-Semitic quasi-fascist nut-jobs makes it seem unromantic. Or maybe shouting is the preferred weapon.

What it does amount to is a diversion away from the problems that beset this country many of which are a hang-over from Thatcherism, an odious creed given life by the left’s inability to unite and find some real-politik agenda to combat it. Too busy infighting and brandishing minutes of meetings about “rights”, fox-hunting and “equalities” to fight the actual issues; Jobs, Communities, Crime (both street and corporate) etc. Meanwhile huge swathes of the country are abandoned with high percentages of unemployment, a process started by Thatcher and nurtured by Blair. Abdicating responsibility for those people by throwing “benefits” at them (I don’t know who benefits from the benefits) makes a breeding ground for the BNP/EDL et al. Seems to me the “left wing” aren’t interested on the problems right on their own doorstep.

The Trade Unions meanwhile fund a party that would continue to spend money the country just doesn’t have, all on the matter of principle. I don’t agree with the Tory cuts but only because they aren’t targeted properly. The civil service and government employers in this country are all admin heavy, instead of seeing that and imposing some kind of cull getting rid of those who merely push pens they put the admin in charge of implementing the cuts – which means the admin side grows even larger. Madness. There needs to be cuts but the “left wing” seems to think that money grows on trees and has no idea on how to grow an economy but simply sees it as the Governments’ job to give people jobs.

The longer the country goes without producing it’s way out of debt the worse things will get, that’s the reality. We don't make enough things that people abroad want to buy. The Tories have little idea how to grow a real economy as they are stuck with the idea that Conservatism = Thatcherism while the “left-wing” seem to me not to even be bothered about the economy.

No wonder GG won, just by being not one of that lot.


You've made some good points there.

I'm not sure you're right that New Labour would 'continue to spend money the country doesnt have'; they are committed (verbally at least) to cutting public expenditure at a rate similar to the Coalition.

And with reference to the Left, its important to reflect that politicians are only the main players in a game called politics, and dont represent politics in its truer sense. On a personal level, I will always be left wing, regardless of how appallingly I am represented by my, err, representatives. This is because it reflects my moral and ethical beliefs, and best explains the world I see around me. In the same way as I dont stop being a Hibs supporter because Calderwood or Mixu or Miller is in charge, the current incumbent of the left-wing political party of choice in whatever country i'm living in at the time is largely irrelevant. I still have faith that broadly leftwing principles is the best way to manage the human condition. I don't follow dogma and make my own decisions on various issues regardless of the prevailing point of view. The way it should be I think.

As for Israel/Palestine, I think the British Left some time ago decided to take sides unquestionably and unthinkingly..."Why Do you Support the Palestinians? I Just Do". in the same way that Celtic fans 'just do' support St Pauli and have Che flags. As I said earlier, theres nothing inherently inconsistent in a supporter of low taxes, small government, neo-liberal free market economics supporting the Palestinian cause...or vice versa...Why should there be? Annabelle Goldie for Free Palestine Campaign would probably be healthy for the re-branding of both bodies:devil:

[easty]

He's on Question Time now. Doing his usual "TONY BLAIRS A BAD MAN...TONY BLAIRS A BAD MAN....I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY I'LL SHOUT OVER YOU ANYWAY" pish.

He's such an erse.

[easty]

"stalin was your god, god is my god, theres only one real god. we'll both find out soon" :confused: